Edwina, List: ET: I, for one, don't see in Peirce that there is a 'pre-Big Bang universe' of 'ur-continuity' nor that there is a 'creator' involved in this 'ur-continuity'. Nor that there is a 'different kind of pre-Big Bang Thirdness.
Gary R. and I have laid out our reasons for seeing all of that in Peirce. In particular, there is really no debating whether he (at least eventually) believed that there is a non-immanent Creator involved; he said so explicitly, in "A Neglected Argument" and its manuscript drafts. One can argue that he was *wrong *about that, but not that he *himself *was an atheist, even though atheists can certainly gain many valuable insights from him; ditto for pantheists and panentheists. ET: It seems to me that we are moving into a discussion based around our own firmly-held personal beliefs about god, the world, creation etc, and are using Peirce, searching for and 'interpreting' his writings, to support our own personal beliefs. There is *always *a danger--a likelihood, even--that our own personal biases will influence our "readings" of someone else's writings; but that extends to *all *aspects of Peirce's thought, not just these particular metaphysical matters. By discussing them in a forum like this, we are giving others the opportunity to help us recognize when we fall into such patterns and adjust our thinking accordingly. Some of us have even changed our minds as a result of these conversations. Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote: > I, for one, don't see in Peirce that there is a 'pre-Big Bang universe' of > 'ur-continuity' nor that there is a 'creator' involved in this > 'ur-continuity'. Nor that there is a 'different kind of pre-Big Bang > Thirdness. > > But I am concerned about the focus of this thread. It seems to me that we > are moving into a discussion based around our own firmly-held personal > beliefs about god, the world, creation etc, and are using Peirce, searching > for and 'interpreting' his writings, to support our own personal beliefs. > > I don't see the point of such a discussion. > > Edwina > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Gary Richmond <gary.richm...@gmail.com> > *To:* Peirce-L <peirce-l@list.iupui.edu> > *Sent:* Thursday, November 03, 2016 12:05 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] Metaphysics and Nothing (was Peirce's Cosmology) > > Soren, Jon, List. > > Soren wrote: > > > > But if the Logos is logic as semiotics and is emerging as thirdness or the > tendency to take habits in all nature of Secondness as Stjernfelt argues so > Well in *Natural propositions* and feeling is present in all matter > (Hylozoism) and all three categories arise as universes from pure Zero. . . > > > Jon and I (and others) have argued that the 3ns which "emerges" > *following* the creation of this Universe (that is, after the Big Bang, > so to loosely speak) is *not* the same as the 3ns which is the *ur*-continuity > represented by the black board example in the last of the 1898 lectures. It > seems to me that much hinges on whether or not one sees our Universe as > presupposing this ur-continuity (nothing in particular but everything in > general, with yet a tendency toward habit-taking *because *of this > ur-continuity, otherwise termed the zero of pure potential, which is, for > Peirce, certainly not "nothing at all"). > > It has further been noted that Peirce suggests that the Creator is, or in > some way participates, in this ur-continuity. *Once* *this* Universe is > "in effect," then, yes, all that you and Stjernfelt argue may follow > (although, I remain, as was Peirce, I firmly believe, a theist and not a > panentheist, so I tend to reject that part of your argumentation, at least > in consideration of the early cosmos). > > Best, > > Gary R > > [image: Gary Richmond] > > *Gary Richmond* > *Philosophy and Critical Thinking* > *Communication Studies* > *LaGuardia College of the City University of New York* > *C 745* > *718 482-5690 <718%20482-5690>* > >
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