I don't have time for a full answer right now, but here's an initial comment.
Julio: >> Why will anybody -- especially the left -- accept what exists as immutable? me: >> Some things that exist are immutable (perhaps such >> as the ultimate limit set by the scarcity of natural >> resources) and other things aren't. There are degrees >> of immutability; it's not a matter of either/or. Julio: > Natural resources. Scarcity. I guess we were not talking about elections. I was contrasting immutable and mutable cases. That is, you quoted me out of context. The full passage is: >>> Some things that exist are immutable (perhaps such as the ultimate limit set by the scarcity of natural resources) and other things aren't. There are degrees of immutability; it's not a matter of either/or. >>> One thing is that we know is that much of what exists (or rather, is perceived to exist) is _not_ immutable. Look, for example, how the "pro-life" movement has changed political reality in the US.<<< me: >> I didn't say that the election results were >> "predetermined" or immutable. Julio: > But you did say it. You said the result (not winning by voting) is a > fact to be accepted. It is a given -- predetermined, immutable. This is what I _really_ said: >> Why not accept the fact that elections in the US are a game you can't >> win by voting? The most the left ... can do at this point is >> propaganda .... The problem seems to arise because there are are different meanings to the word "winning." That is, winning _what_? does an election simply replace one bourgeois bozo with a more intelligent and articulate one? If so, that's winning for the latter. But is it winning from a leftist point of view? that is, does it increase the organization and consciousness of the working class? You'll also notice the phrase "at this point." That tips off the fact that I was thinking that at some _other_ point in time, the left could do _more_ than propaganda. That is, the situation is _mutable_. -- Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante. _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
