I’m not talking about you or anyone else in particular. I’m talking about a general attitude I’m sensing. Now, I can be wrong… of course (and I hope) :)
Esteban > On 03 Oct 2014, at 14:27, kilon alios <kilon.al...@gmail.com> wrote: > > First of all, if you are referring to me I never said "this is a shit". > > Second what you see as negativity I see it as honesty and for me is far more > important than "Pharo is yours". Assuming honesty does not become rudeness. > > Third I dont recall anyone ever demanding a feature of you guys working 24/7 > to implement something disregarding your limited resources. > > Fourth I have to say that I really don't get the "Pharo is yours" motto. Is > there software out there , open source or not that does not listen to its > community and does not try hard to makes its users happy ? Pharo is not mine, > If I designed Pharo I would make a lot more diffirent choices than the ones > that are included in Pharo and many of them would be proven bad and stupid in > the long run because I have made many of them already. I want to contibute > and keep pushing Pharo forward but realistically Pharo will never become mine > and that maybe is more a good than a bad thing for the rest of you. > > Fifth, the community overall is friendly, we had our clashes from time to > time but lets be realistic, what community does not ? I have had my bad > experiences while coding with python and just a daily participation in irc > channels and forums can prove this point easily. These things make one mature > emotionally and learn how to treat people online in a productive way. > Communities benefit more than fall apart from these incidents because they > really prove what kind of metal they are made of. > > Not helping does not help is something we will agree to disagree, Companies > invest billions of dollars on surveys to see how people feel about a product. > You may hate the idea of Pharo viewed as a product but maybe then maybe you > understimate the importance of this approach. Sooner or later Pharo will need > some serious funding to get more full time developers and investors will see > Pharo as a product. > > In the end if what drives you all is to create a super cool product go out > and ask people what they truly feel about Pharo. Very few people use > smalltalk implementations , why ? What they don't like is far more important > to what they like. Learning to target features that your users need the most > is the path to success but even if the user does not really know what he or > she want getting to know your user needs or the way he/she thinks is what > will help you design tools that make people smile but most importantly make > people use on a day to day basis. > > If you are not ready to take in the negativity you wont go very far because > there is a ton of negativity out there. If you find my negative bad, boy you > have seen nothing . There is a lot of frustration out there for things even > unrelated to coding, sometimes accepting that help you communicate easily > with people . Dont try to suppress negative it will become a volcano that > will erupt eventually. > > On the other hand do not tolerate trolling either, isolate these kind of > people who love to annoy others and throw the away from poisoning the > community. > > "Anything done with a measure is perfection" > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 2:44 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <esteba...@gmail.com > <mailto:esteba...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Hi, > > I’m writing this because I’m sad about what is happening in this list. > I’m seeing a lot of general negativity and non constructive ways to discuss > things. > I’m also seeing more and more people using Pharo for their particular > interests (which is of course a good thing) but less and less people who > contribute back to Pharo. > Finally, I’m seeing more frequently an attitude of “customer”, more than the > conviction than this, Pharo, is also yours… > > Please people, we (the pharo “core” team) cannot do everything. We do not > have the manpower or the resources to hire manpower. We would like, but we > just do not have the resources (is already a blessing that we can work on > this, for now: INRIA is paying, but what it pays is *research*, not “pharo > the language”, so this is a collateral advantage….) > > So, having an OPEN SOURCE project, with limited resources means that there is > a lot of things that depend on the community. > It depends on the community not just to fix, but to enlarge the ecosystem in > general too. > > So, I refuse to believe that we cannot be a cool and helpful community. > I refuse to believe that general negativity and bad humor can overcome the > joy of participating in this collective effort. > > So, here some recommendations for enhance the way we participate: > > - Be positive. Just “this is a s**t” does not help. Even if it is. > - Be propositional. Just “this is a s**t”, and not telling what you > want/prefer does not help. > - Be proactive. Just “this is a s**t”, and not report, discuss and (at least > time to time) provide a fix/enhancement does not help. > > In conclusion: not helping does not help :) > After all, this is the “pharo-dev” list. I mean, the list of people wanting > to participate from this great, community effort. > > cheers, > Esteban, still grateful of belonging to this community > > > >
