Maybe it is time to consider what is really supplied with the Protel at

1. A 'nice' schematic layout package
2. A reasonable PCB package with a very quirky autorouter.
3. Lots of idiosyncrasies thrown in for free.
4. A poorly documented simulation package which only seems useful to
Academia, where there a few spare grads to waste some months in trying to
get a useful outcome.
5. A pld package which few people use given that most chip suppliers have
their own low cost package.
6. A toy 3D viewer with a library for which you can not add components.
7. Maybe even a web quote toy. Pigs if I am going to send our business to
the guy who just happened to have the cheapest boards. A working affiliation
with a board shop takes time and money to develop in order to guarantee
clean runs.

The only Support we use is supplied via this group. This is for two reasons,
the first being that the workarounds are generally more detailed & from
people who live with this beast in the real world and secondly because the
enquiry will benefit the many others who will follow the thread.

At  AUD$900+ every two years I am happy to upgrade as for a one man show it
is reasonable & affordable, even if we do have to wait for a few service
packs before it is actually usable as well. I'll even tolerate the
operational gotchas that still exist after many many years of complaints by
people on this group.

Generally Prottle is reasonable value given that only a portion of the
box -full of stocking stuffers is actually of any real value, unfortunately
in this case it appears that the Company is basing it's facts on it's own
advertising material. worrisome...

At AUD$4000 per year I can only laugh. Firstly it is out of our budget.
Secondly it is just plain straight piss poor value. I can only wonder at the
drugs that the marketroid is on that suggested this. After using this
product since the days of Autotrax and prior to the existence of Windows I
am in no doubt as to the likelihood of much changing on the software front.
I wouldn't expect much for my AUD$4000 outside of the pain of having wasted
so much money.

If the shareholders consider this a good move to enhance the bottom line I
would suspect that a user revolt may have them looking even harder at their
bottom line.  I can live with 99SE, question is, can they live without our

I don't accept that the solution to this is to move to another product. We
have spent a hell of a lot of blood, sweat & tears over the years while
trying to turn out a living with this product. I believe the solution is to
fix the current problem & make very sure that Altium know exactly how the
userbase feels & what the likelihood is of them turning us into cash-cows.


Don Ingram CID

----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] ATS

> Sent to Protel/Altium:
> -----------
> Why the hell would we (pre Oct 1st 99SE users) want to buy ATS membership
> we get the same thing for free? Quoted from your web site:
> "Current Protel 99 SE Customers: All Protel 99 SE customers who have
> purchased prior to October 1st, 2001 will continue to receive technical
> support, libraries, and any new service packs and add-ons for Protel 99 SE
> as part of their license. ATS membership cannot be purchased on existing
> Protel 99 SE licenses."
> I assume from this that a new version of Protel is due for release soon
> support for 99SE will be dropped.
> Congratulations on another way of screwing the end user for all he's worth
> and ultimately reducing your market share.
> I for one will not be purchasing any new versions of Protel if I have to
> ongoing fees for incomplete bug full software. Especially if you expect me
> to beta test new products for free.
> Please feel free to pass this email on to the money hungry dolts in your
> marketing department.
> PS: your autorouter is next to useless.
> ----------
> (Rant mode=off)
> I feel better now.

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