Jason, you crack me up. First you complain about bugs in Protel, then you
say it's your IT guy's problem because he wants to patch the OS even when
there is no visible problem. Patches == Bug fixes. You think all bugs are
"visible?" Think again buddy. There are security holes, reliability issues,
etc that may be hiding for months or years before the right set of
conditions "expose" them. You don't want those fixed??

My P99 is also quite stable. I've said before on this list that I can't
remember the last time it crashed. I don't do boards quite as large as you
it seems, but I've done some pretty big ones before.

Why don't you rip up some key aspects of your design and post it somewhere
for download so other's could see if they get the same crash with your
board. (providing the part you ripped up didn't have an effect). Take off a
dozen components and a dozen nets  and see if you still get the crash. If
you do, would you feel confident that "we" could see your board without
actually having anything of IP value?


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 5:03 AM
> To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)
> Michael,
> First lets get something straight, I take offence at your questioning my
> competence with Protel, I've been using it for a very long time and am
> familiar with all of its usual weird behaviours (even though they
> are still
> unacceptable)
> The only reason we are using it at all, and not the latest Orcad (which we
> also have and use) is down to my experience with Protel.
> Protel crashes, its protel's fault (even you admit that).  As for
> not using
> the bits that crash, I find the inability to print, save or load a file a
> bit of an inconvenience.  And as for missing and misplaced entities on
> plots, well
> that's to be expected these days.... nothings perfect.
> Ok, yes I admit its got much better (so far as features go) since P98, but
> at the expense of repeatable stability.
> ---------(A bit of background - you don't need to read this bit)
> Our first dedicated cad machine was a 1GHz P4 with 1G RAM, it *ONLY* runs
> Protel and win2K.
> We bought this as protel was pausing for more than 30 seconds per pin as a
> result of an edit of through hole components, it was also crashing many
> times a day.  EDA UK confirmed both these bugs and passed our design to
> Protel for investigation.
> It seems that the crashing is usually down to known problems when
> you have a
> very large design >1000 components, many polys (these are the killer) and
> many tracks on a mixed through hole / smt design.  The other
> problem is down
> to a bug with the on-line poly repour it seems to take ages when
> you have a
> large number of polys.
> All we do know is that an 1 hours lost work of one of our engineers costs
> more than an extra gig of ram.
> A newer machine was bought for a 2nd engineer. This is a dual processor
> 1.7GHz P4 with 1.5G RAM (at the time the fastest we could sensibly afford)
> Initially on the new machine all printing activity from within
> Protel would
> cause a crash, from experience we know that protel is very sensitive to
> graphics cards (surely not the fault of protel), so changing it
> sorted some
> of the crashes (its now the same as the first machine)
> ----------------------------
> Protel still crashes, so what's going on?   Probably a fault of the IT guy
> who (despite my advice) wants lots of patches installed under
> windows, even
> if there is no visible problem, anyway that's his problem.....
> So where am I going?
> Ah yes, Michael, as you machine seems to be so stable, perhaps you could
> tell
> everyone its build as its seems you've got it right.
> J.

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