Jami,

don't take it personally. This is a discussion forum and not a winner-gets-to-live 
arena. We have several Dell machines with identical HW and identical SW. The only 
difference are the M$ and Protel licence numbers. Some (in fact only one) have mouse 
problems in Protel, some don't. So, what's a problem here?

Igor

-----Original Message-----
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, 26 July 2002 9:11 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.


Gisbert,

Please se my response intermixed with your comment -

JaMi


----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

snip

>
> When you install a piece of hardware (e.g. a mouse), the driver software
> either goes with the hardware product, or you may chose to install the
> Microsoft driver (if supplied).

I'm with you so far, but I believe that you already missed the problem -

I did not install any Microsoft Mouse or Intellimouse Software -

It came with the system -

Like buying a car - it came with standard equipment - I did not install a
new transmission - I did not install a new Mouse - I did not install a new
Mouse driver.

My company bought a standard system with a standard mouse and a standard
mouse driver.

That standard system was a Dell, that standard mouse was a Microsoft Wheel
mouse, and that standard mouse driver was Microsoft Intellimouse.

> The application SW (like Protel) should not
> need to mess around with any special HW feature (like it used to be in old
> DOS times),

Yes, Yes, I agree One Hundred Thousand Percent. Continue.

> but just call system (Windows) functions and leave the rest to
> the OS.

Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes,  Please Continue.

>I am just a simple-minded hardware developer, but if you state that
> the application works fine

No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No!

Thats the Problem - it didn't work - Protel crashed!

PROTEL CRASHED - AND ONLY PROTEL!

> with a Logitech mouse and does not with a
> Microsoft mouse, there cannot be any question about who is to blame.

Well - Lets stop and look at this for a minute.

The Microsoft Mouse is in fact the "Industry Standard" Mouse.

Apple stole the design from Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center) and tried
to say that they invented it, and even tried to sue Microsoft, but lost.
Microsoft is and has always been the defacto "standard" mouse in the
industry ever since the mouse has been used as an input device (and yes I do
have a Microsoft Bus Mouse). If you don't like this assesment, don't blame
me, go talk to all of the other mouse manufacturers in the world who put the
words "Microsoft Compatible" on all of their mouse products.

Enter Logitech. Logitech made a Mouse with Three Buttons. From the very
first day, the Logitech Mouse was never compatible with the Microsoft Mouse
or any of the Microsoft Mouse Drivers. However, Logitech did make their own
Software Drivers for their Logitech Mouse that made their Logitech Mouse act
like a Microsoft Mouse, and in that sense, the Logictech Mouse was deemed to
be Microsoft Mouse Compatible. Logitech has always had their own Mouse
Drivers which have thru the years have kept the Logitech Mouse compatible,
although today, the actual Logitech Mouse and Microsoft Mouse are actually
somewhat (although not completely) hardware compatible.

>From the perspective of virtually all systems around today except Apple,
Microsoft developed the mouse, and Microsoft also developed the mouse
driver. Microsoft is the standard.

OK - So here we are with a standard Dell System, and a standard Microsoft
Wheel mouse, and a Standard Microsoft Mouse Driver - Let us please continue.

(Please note that while there is a parallel post arguing that Dell shipped
an older driver with the system (and I will answer that post seperately),
there appears to have never been any asertions by anyone, including the
author of that post, that any Dell system ever at any time had any problem
with any other applications while it had that mouse driver except for
Protel.)

>I have
> no preference for any OS; I want a working system, that's all.

Protel does have preferences, but Windows 2000 is one of them, lets
continue.

> I just don't
> care about who writes drivers, be it the OS people, be it the hardware
> supplier.

Yes, Yes, I agree One Hundred Thousand Percent. Continue.

> I dare to demand from SW the same as anyone takes for granted
> from any HW product they purchase: it shall function as specified.

Yes, Yes, I agree One Hundred Thousand Percent.

THIS is why I say that Protel has the "Bug"!

> In
> consequence: If Microsoft mice don't work with Microsoft SW (MS is the OS
> provider,

But in fact the Microsoft Mouse does in fact work CORRECTLY with my Dell
system and with My MS OS and EVERY OTHER APPLICATION that I have ever run on
it.


O N L Y   P R O T E L   C R A S H E S   !   !   !   !   !

N O T H I N G   B E S I D E S   P R O T E L   C R A S H E S   !   !   !   !


> don't buy mice from Microsoft. It's as simple as
> that.

I didn't - It came with the system -

>The fact that use of the Logitech drivers eliminates the problem with
> Protel speaks for itself.

I don't think that it did eliminate the problem, although it does seem that
it is a successful workaround.

But as for the problem itself - which I would maintain is still there - I
cannot see why after going thru your own rational step by step as I have
here, people can still try and say that is is not a Protel Bug.

> I don't mind your devotion for Microsoft, I use
> their SW as well, as it is part of my work,

I think Microsoft sucks! But in some instances, such as this one, I think
Protel sucks too!

> but please let us stick to the
> facts.

Yes, Yes, I agree One Hundred Thousand Percent.


By the way, how do you know whether Altium is member of MDN or not?
>

By the simple fact that they have failed to address this problem for several
years, I believe that it is indicative of not consulting with Microsoft on
the issue.

I believe that any Software Application Developer OEM such as Protel /
Altium who was a member of the Microsoft Development Network and who
approched Microsoft with the problem, would have had it resolved years ago.

Maybe I am wrong.

Maybe they are a member of MDN, and simply choose to ignore the problem, and
let others in this forum point the finger of blame at Microsoft.

JaMi






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