Right on Steve!!! :)

I could go for a beer about now!


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Casey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 5:35 AM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
>
>
> Wow - 52 mails in this thread (53 now!) I must say I've been thoroughly
> enjoying it, too. You can't beat a good, reasoned argument.
>
> Anyway, not wishing to get into the finer points of what is, and isn't, a
> bug, I think that your problem may be fixed by updating the Intellimouse
> software. I had a similar issue, and the update fixed it. I have had many
> issues where two products interact in some undesirable way, and
> in the main
> an update fixes it. Maybe it's not right, but it generally works, and it
> lets me do the same.
>
> Looking forward to further banter (number 54 and onwards!) - It's a shame
> we're not in a bar, talking about this over a few beers.
>
> Steve.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 26 July 2002 12:11
> > To: Protel EDA Forum
> > Cc: JaMi Smith
> > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
> >
> >
> > Gisbert,
> >
> > Please se my response intermixed with your comment -
> >
> > JaMi
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > snip
> >
> > >
> > > When you install a piece of hardware (e.g. a mouse), the
> driver software
> > > either goes with the hardware product, or you may chose to install the
> > > Microsoft driver (if supplied).
> >
> > I'm with you so far, but I believe that you already missed the problem -
> >
> > I did not install any Microsoft Mouse or Intellimouse Software -
> >
> > It came with the system -
> >
> > Like buying a car - it came with standard equipment - I did not
> install a
> > new transmission - I did not install a new Mouse - I did not
> install a new
> > Mouse driver.
> >
> > My company bought a standard system with a standard mouse and a standard
> > mouse driver.
> >
> > That standard system was a Dell, that standard mouse was a
> Microsoft Wheel
> > mouse, and that standard mouse driver was Microsoft Intellimouse.
> >
> > > The application SW (like Protel) should not
> > > need to mess around with any special HW feature (like it used
> > to be in old
> > > DOS times),
> >
> > Yes, Yes, I agree One Hundred Thousand Percent. Continue.
> >
> > > but just call system (Windows) functions and leave the rest to
> > > the OS.
> >
> > Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes,  Please Continue.
> >
> > >I am just a simple-minded hardware developer, but if you state that
> > > the application works fine
> >
> > No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No!
> >
> > Thats the Problem - it didn't work - Protel crashed!
> >
> > PROTEL CRASHED - AND ONLY PROTEL!
> >
> > > with a Logitech mouse and does not with a
> > > Microsoft mouse, there cannot be any question about who is to blame.
> >
> > Well - Lets stop and look at this for a minute.
> >
> > The Microsoft Mouse is in fact the "Industry Standard" Mouse.
> >
> > Apple stole the design from Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research
> > Center) and tried
> > to say that they invented it, and even tried to sue Microsoft, but lost.
> > Microsoft is and has always been the defacto "standard" mouse in the
> > industry ever since the mouse has been used as an input device
> > (and yes I do
> > have a Microsoft Bus Mouse). If you don't like this assesment,
> don't blame
> > me, go talk to all of the other mouse manufacturers in the world
> > who put the
> > words "Microsoft Compatible" on all of their mouse products.
> >
> > Enter Logitech. Logitech made a Mouse with Three Buttons. From the very
> > first day, the Logitech Mouse was never compatible with the
> > Microsoft Mouse
> > or any of the Microsoft Mouse Drivers. However, Logitech did make
> > their own
> > Software Drivers for their Logitech Mouse that made their
> > Logitech Mouse act
> > like a Microsoft Mouse, and in that sense, the Logictech Mouse
> > was deemed to
> > be Microsoft Mouse Compatible. Logitech has always had their own Mouse
> > Drivers which have thru the years have kept the Logitech Mouse
> compatible,
> > although today, the actual Logitech Mouse and Microsoft Mouse
> are actually
> > somewhat (although not completely) hardware compatible.
> >
> > >From the perspective of virtually all systems around today
> except Apple,
> > Microsoft developed the mouse, and Microsoft also developed the mouse
> > driver. Microsoft is the standard.
> >
> > OK - So here we are with a standard Dell System, and a standard
> Microsoft
> > Wheel mouse, and a Standard Microsoft Mouse Driver - Let us
> > please continue.
> >
> > (Please note that while there is a parallel post arguing that
> Dell shipped
> > an older driver with the system (and I will answer that post
> seperately),
> > there appears to have never been any asertions by anyone, including the
> > author of that post, that any Dell system ever at any time had
> any problem
> > with any other applications while it had that mouse driver except for
> > Protel.)
> >
> > >I have
> > > no preference for any OS; I want a working system, that's all.
> >
> > Protel does have preferences, but Windows 2000 is one of them, lets
> > continue.
> >
> > > I just don't
> > > care about who writes drivers, be it the OS people, be it the hardware
> > > supplier.
> >
> > Yes, Yes, I agree One Hundred Thousand Percent. Continue.
> >
> > > I dare to demand from SW the same as anyone takes for granted
> > > from any HW product they purchase: it shall function as specified.
> >
> > Yes, Yes, I agree One Hundred Thousand Percent.
> >
> > THIS is why I say that Protel has the "Bug"!
> >
> > > In
> > > consequence: If Microsoft mice don't work with Microsoft SW (MS
> > is the OS
> > > provider,
> >
> > But in fact the Microsoft Mouse does in fact work CORRECTLY with my Dell
> > system and with My MS OS and EVERY OTHER APPLICATION that I have
> > ever run on
> > it.
> >
> >
> > O N L Y   P R O T E L   C R A S H E S   !   !   !   !   !
> >
> > N O T H I N G   B E S I D E S   P R O T E L   C R A S H E S   !
> > !   !   !
> >
> >
> > > don't buy mice from Microsoft. It's as simple as
> > > that.
> >
> > I didn't - It came with the system -
> >
> > >The fact that use of the Logitech drivers eliminates the problem with
> > > Protel speaks for itself.
> >
> > I don't think that it did eliminate the problem, although it does
> > seem that
> > it is a successful workaround.
> >
> > But as for the problem itself - which I would maintain is still
> there - I
> > cannot see why after going thru your own rational step by step as I have
> > here, people can still try and say that is is not a Protel Bug.
> >
> > > I don't mind your devotion for Microsoft, I use
> > > their SW as well, as it is part of my work,
> >
> > I think Microsoft sucks! But in some instances, such as this
> one, I think
> > Protel sucks too!
> >
> > > but please let us stick to the
> > > facts.
> >
> > Yes, Yes, I agree One Hundred Thousand Percent.
> >
> >
> > By the way, how do you know whether Altium is member of MDN or not?
> > >
> >
> > By the simple fact that they have failed to address this problem
> > for several
> > years, I believe that it is indicative of not consulting with
> Microsoft on
> > the issue.
> >
> > I believe that any Software Application Developer OEM such as Protel /
> > Altium who was a member of the Microsoft Development Network and who
> > approched Microsoft with the problem, would have had it resolved
> > years ago.
> >
> > Maybe I am wrong.
> >
> > Maybe they are a member of MDN, and simply choose to ignore the
> > problem, and
> > let others in this forum point the finger of blame at Microsoft.
> >
> > JaMi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ************************************************************************
> > * Tracking #: D7F434CF5C7D4643A387A3E5BBB092C79D8641F7
> > *
> > ************************************************************************
> >
>
>

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