What Rob Young stated is what I have been saying for since Accel was acquired. Just Like some of you, I am taking a very hard look at other programs. A very hard look....My future depends on having the right software for my requirements not someone dictating what my requirements are.
Mike Reagan ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Protel EDA Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 vs DXP issues > Speaking of the Beta program, I asked to be part of the Beta program for DXP > and was not selected. I have been using Protel since version 1.12 back in > 1993 I believe, so I would have thought that my input would have been worth > something to them. For whatever reason, they chose not to include me. That > was fine as I have too much work to do anyway. The reason I have recently > stepped up and began using the DXP demo, is that I have a great interest in > seeing that our beloved Protel continues as it has. While Protel has never > been perfect, in my opinion, it has been the best value on the market for > manual PCB layout and schematic capture. But now, just as they have been > gaining ground they decide to make this ATS policy along with a repeat of > the P99 release. I nearly severed my Protel relationship over the bugs in > P99 and continued to use P98 until P99SE came out. I was encouraged in that > the P99SE release directly addressed many of the concerns on this group. It > is quite upsetting to see them repeat that mistake again, but this time, > they expect us to pay for it as well. Also it just occurred to me as why I > am not getting any responses from Altium on the many issues I asked about in > the demo........ I am not a current ATS subscriber! So I am now being > shunned for previewing their new release. Not a great way to treat a long > time user and supporter of Protel in my opinion. As a consultant, I have > been responsible for many more seats of Protel than just my seat. With > Altium's current attitude, I will recommend to all of my clients that they > wait to see what the outcome of the ATS policy will really be and until DXP > has matured enough to be a usable package. Unless Altium intends to be more > aggressive with service packs on ATS, that will be at least a year and maybe > more based upon past experience. > > As much as I would like to see SP7, I don't think Altium will provide one as > it is not in their new company model to continue with P99SE. They want to > move everyone over to DXP and start to collect ATS fees for what is > currently an inferior product. Perhaps if they would provide SP7 under the > ATS program, it would make the ATS worth something. Then a user could > continue to use P99SE with new features and bug fixes and feel like they got > something for their money while DXP was getting refined. Plus the user > would be able to test DXP and provide valuable feedback to Altium. I just > don't agree with paying ATS for bug fixes. New features, yes... telephone > tech support for those that need it, yes... fixing buggy software, > absolutely not! > > Is it just me or does it seem like Accel was the one who bought Protel? > Ever since Protel purchased Accel and changed their name to Atium, it seems > that most people at Altium are former Accel people and the new policies seem > to be old Accel policies. I fear that the Protel us long time users have > come to know and respect is no longer in existence. > > Rob > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John A. Ross [Design]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 10:09 AM > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 vs DXP issues > > > > From: "Brad Velander" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 4:58 PM > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 vs DXP issues > > > > > > > Rob, could you explain your comments about the Cam Manager in DXP a > > > little better. Do you mean to say that every time you want to generate > > > Gerber/Drill output, you have to reconfigure your output formats > manually > > > each time? If what I think you are saying is true, who is the rocket > > > scientist at Protel that blew that one. You know how many mistakes are > > made > > > generating gerber/drill formats on an initial configuration, saving and > > > tweaking those configurations is only the minimal acceptable feature for > > the > > > past 10 years (some packages longer than that). Aaaarghhh, Protel/Altium > > > just don't know what the f#$% they are doing, incompetent, completely > > > incompetent. > > > > Brad > > > > You have to generate the ouptuts in the individual groups (gerber, drill > > etc). > > > > Pre Cam-Manager style. So we have ANOTHER step backwards, productivity > wise. > > Pay more (ATS) do less! Dont figure with me. > > > > The features in DXP that I would have welcomed (productivity increase) > might > > not have been so easy to get into a SP7 in 99SE as a database change was > > needed to accomodate them. BUT, a gradual change into DXP from 99SE > > enviroment (SP7) would have been less of a shock than it stands now. > > > > I got my 'ATS' copy of DXP as I bought a new 99SE license Q2 this year. > But > > after using the trial version first, I would say I would rather have seen > a > > SP7 than DXP. For now the 'good' in DXP (and there is some) so far does > not > > justify the amount of missed features and reduced productivity for me as > > compared to 99SE. > > > > Although I would not say Altium were completely incompetent with DXP, what > I > > would say is that whovever did the market/user research on what changes & > > features should be added into DXP, well, they simply asked the wrong > people > > or did not ask in the first place, just skimmed the user lists and made a > > few notes. The beta program obviously did not take in a big enough cross > > section of users (not just loyal experts) to yeild accurate information on > > what the 'average user' would like or need, and of course those that did > > beta test, have their gag order to contend with, so we will never know. I > > would have thought after the 99->99SE experience, the situation would not > > have occurred again, oh my.... > > > > :-( > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > Brad Velander. > > > > > > Lead PCB Designer > > > Norsat International Inc. > > > Microwave Products > > > Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) > > > Fax (604) 292-9010 > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://www.norsat.com > > > Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 > > > certification > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Rob Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 6:48 AM > > > > To: Protel EDA Forum > > > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Service Pack 7 vs DXP issues > > > > > > > > > > > > If there were a service pack 7 that also included some long > > > > requested new > > > > features that are now included in DXP, I would be much more > > > > inclined to pay > > > > for SP7 than for DXP. DXP is promising in some areas, but completely > > > > useless for me in it's current state. I fail to understand > > > > why Altium had > > > > to so drastically change the interface that long time Protel > > > > users will now > > > > have to retrain themselves. Features that I would pay for in > > > > SP7 that are > > > > currently in DXP would be items such as: > > > > > > > > 1. Layer Pairing in PCB > > > > 2. Associative Dimensions > > > > 3. Break wire with part in Schematic > > > > 4. Right-click panning in schematic like in PCB now. > > > > 5. Better padstack control in PCB > > > > 6. Part editing in Schematic like in PCB now. > > > > 7. Multi-channel capability in Sch and PCB. > > > > 8. Automatic edge pullback on PCB planes. > > > > 9. Query ability (but please leave existing global options alone!) > > > > 10. Ability to exclude certain components from the BOM. > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > 5. Cam manager is gone from PCB. Instead of hitting "F9" to > > > > process all > > > > your cam outputs in one keystroke, you will now have to > > > > process gerbers, nc > > > > drill files, pick & place and testpoint data individually. > > > > > > > <SNIP> > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************************************ > > > * Tracking #: BA77E5364D6AD9448C59DC2067018139B233CB65 > > > * > > > ************************************************************************ > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
