I hope I am not dillusional here. I bought in an additional copy of 99SE and
picked up DXP due to the free ATS. Picking at this package like a crow, I
present a tale of woe.

I did not like 99's original release and it took up to service pack 3 to
convince me this EDA tool would be useful. It also took some time for Protel
to convince myself that having a complete design travel within it's own data
base would be useful. Since I have no drafting office to keep me
disciplined, I have to maintain my own library support everywhere. The DDB
architecture meant that I knew what libraires affected a given design, as
they were all inclusive. 

With a cautious if, if what I see within DXP is evident, the DDB archiecture
is being thrown away for a data base linker of externally saved files. This
is a *complete* reversal of what otherwise was a great way for a small shop
to operate without ISO 9000 overhead haunting the designer into insoberity.

There seems to be an forced arm to syncronize/integrate legacy libraires by
in DXP. While watching Ma and Pa unite is not a bad thing (symbol and
footprint), I will predict that anyone who has the least bit of sloppy
library control will empty the liquor store before I can get there.

I am discovering some nice feature with DXP, like extended attributes SPICE
enhancements. However, when I imported a DDB file with sheet heirarchy and
saw the linkages disappear, I became concerned. I have not found a way to
get the compliation work to reintroduce the paint by numbers attachments as
of yet.

I hope someone will dispell what I am seeing though just my few hours of
inexperience. I liked the DDB format option and I would not like to see this
format disappear.

Fabian Hartery
Research Engineer, B. Eng (Electrical)

Guigne International Limited
63 Thorburn Road
St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada
A1B3M2
tel: 709-738-4070
fax: 709-738-4093
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.guigne.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 5:00 PM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP - Crunch time?


I basically agree with you. 

BTW, the speed problem is not just your system. I think DXP is much
slower too and I want it fixed. There is one area which compounds the
problem: screen redraws are done after the screen data has been
computed. So even if the speed were the same, there is a visible delay
that wasn't there before. In 99SE, we can 'watch' the screen repaint. In
DXP it does the work in the background without visual feedback and then
BAM, the screen updated in a flash. The new process also seems to affect
panning. I sort of prefer the old way, but if the new way were faster, I
wouldn't care.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 12:06 PM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP - Crunch time?
> 
> 
> Tony,
> 
> This is entirely a personal preference issue from a long time 
> Protel user. My comments with the new dialogs is a very small 
> issue and would not prevent me from upgrading to DXP, but I 
> liked the idea of having all data in one column that I could 
> just quickly scan down for pads, tracks, text etc and all 
> were pretty much consistent in how they looked.  While I like 
> the new look, I am not yet sure I will like visually scanning 
> through the graphics versus the P99SE list for relevant 
> information.  Considering the tab key function, it may not 
> slow a user down too much, but the quick glance at attributes 
> between different dialogs in DXP will take some getting used 
> to. In my opinion, it will take longer to focus on the 
> desired attribute, but this could be resolved with DXP 
> experience as you mentioned.  Unfortunately, being 
> experienced with DXP will take some time for me since I will 
> not upgrade until several more pressing issues are worked out 
> and my demo is now over.  Speed of the app being one of them 
> and being compatible with P99SE designs another.  Perhaps it 
> is just my system, but P99SE runs much quicker and smoother 
> than DXP in my case.  I have several designs loaded with 
> split planes that currently do not import properly to DXP 
> along with all the CAM and print settings being wiped out.  
> DXP needs a lot more work yet, I am just frustrated that we 
> are going through this again after the same thing happened 
> with the first P99 release.  The addition of ATS just makes 
> it much worse.
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 2:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP - Crunch time?
> 
> 
> > Why is that? Once you're experienced with DXP (or any app) you know 
> > where to find stuff. The glitz doesn't slow me down. The 
> speed of the 
> > app (or lack of speed) slows me down.
> >
> > What would be the most proficient would be to have the tab key jump 
> > between the editable fields in the order of most used which could 
> > easily be determined by a survey on these lists.
> >
> > For example on a component pad, the first field highlighted is 
> > Designator. I think that makes sense. However, if you press 
> tab a few 
> > times you get this order:
> >
> > Hole Size
> > Layer
> > Rotation
> > Xlocation
> > etc...
> >
> > After a while you get to X size and Ysize. I don't know 
> about you, but 
> > I find myself tweaking those two things way more often than the 
> > location of the pad. I personally would like to see it more 
> like this, 
> > where the plated status is brought to the first tab instead 
> of the 3rd 
> > tab. I usually never mess with the net association because the 
> > schematic drives that.
> >
> > Here is a mockup: http://www.encoreelectronics.com/padedit.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rob Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 6:31 AM
> > > To: Protel EDA Forum
> > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP - Crunch time?
> > >
> > >
> > > Ian,
> > > > 7) Dialogs are not as easily navigated as in P99SE - 
> they may look 
> > > > nicer but I find it harder to find the editable elements.
> > > I am in complete agreement with you on the dialogs.  I 
> forgot to add 
> > > that to my list of issues with DXP.  I find it much 
> easier to find 
> > > relevant attributes in a well organized list like P99SE has, not 
> > > with them all haphazardly placed among "glitz" and 
> "glamour".  These 
> > > new dialogs may help the new user, but once you are 
> proficient with 
> > > Protel, I think it tends to slow the user down. Rob
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ian Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:35 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP - Crunch time?
> > >
> > >
> > > > At 02:48 AM 5/09/02 +0100, you wrote:
> > > > ><..snip..>
> > > > >As the title said Cruch time - do I spend any more 
> time looking 
> > > > >at the
> > > DXP
> > > > >demo and upcoming SP1 re-learning how to use it or do I
> > > spend my time
> > > > >looking at other packages?
> > > > >
> > > > >What do you guys think?
> > > >
> > > > My feelings are very mixed.  I have not tried all of the
> > > features and
> > > > have not done much after the beta program finished.  I am
> > > waiting for
> > > > the first service pack before I see what has changed since
> > > the beta.
> > > > So when I say what I like or dislike it may be that I have
> > > not tried
> > > > your favorite feature or tested your favorite(!) bug.
> > > >
> > > > Likes:
> > > > 1) query language and reltaed to that the much more powerful 
> > > > design rules
> > > > 2) Sim post processing is improved
> > > > 3) New ERC options
> > > > 4) Integrated libraries should help configuration control
> > > >
> > > > Dislikes:
> > > > 1) speed
> > > > 2) globals are slower and some things very much harder to
> > > work out how
> > > > to do (but see Likes point 1).
> > > > 3) Router is very disappointing - I was hoping for a 
> break through 
> > > > here.
> > > > 4) No SDK released (yet)
> > > > 5) I think the spreadsheet view should *not* be on the same
> > > panel as the
> > > > filter.
> > > > 6) ATS
> > > > 7) Dialogs are not as easily navigated as in P99SE - they
> > > may look nicer
> > > > but I find it harder to find the editable elements.
> > > > 8) Greater reliance on mouse compared to P99SE - this
> > > affects productivity
> > > > 9) loss of Selected vs Focussed feature in P99SE and no
> > > provision for a
> > > > workable replacement (simply making the system more like
> > > other Windows
> > > apps
> > > > is a retrograde step IMO)
> > > >
> > > > There are others but these are the major ones I can think
> > > of just now.
> > > >
> > > > As an indicator - I have started a few new designs in the
> > > last week or
> > > > so.  All of these are being done in P99SE.  I have a 
> rather "down" 
> > > > feeling about it.  Lots to like but ATS really makes the
> > > equation more
> > > > complex
> > > than
> > > > it used to be.
> > > >
> > > > I will re-evaluate after SP1.
> > > >
> > > > Ian Wilson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> ********************************************************************
> > > **
> > > > **
> > > > * Tracking #: F798CC54297D2F409329F8E4E9D6CD6A24CD0BED
> > > > *
> > > >
> > > **************************************************************
> > > **********
> > >
> 




----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged 
information and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to 
which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify 
the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy 
any copies from your system; you should not copy the message or disclose 
its contents to anyone. Any dissemination, distribution or use of this 
information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized 
and may be illegal. We cannot accept liability for any damage sustained 
as a result of software viruses and advise you to carry out your own virus 
checks before opening any attachment. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* To leave this list visit:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html
*
* Contact the list manager:
* mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* Forum Guidelines Rules:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html
*
* Browse or Search previous postings:
* http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Reply via email to