Please see below . . .

----- Original Message -----
From: "Abd ul-Rahman Lomax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "JaMi Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] License Legalities

> At 12:31 AM 9/8/2003, JaMi Smith wrote:

> > A perfect example of . . .

> Since Mr. Smith wrote  . . .

Abd, Ian, and the group,

At the risk of being flamed on, I actually believe that I can bring this
topic to a very short conclusion. If Abd or anyone else that is interested
will simply go to the following link and then put a check next to Penal Code
and then do a search on the word "software", and then find his way to
California Penal Code Section 502.


In an effort to keep this short, this deals directly with the issue of
software, and "computer crime", which is the issue at hand, and forgoes any
discussion of Cable TV "signal theft" which was brought up by me as an
example (and which Abd actually admits is an exact parallel of his
argument), and which I am also willing to discuss further offline.

Please note that this is the Penal Code, which deals with "public offenses"
(i.e.: crimes - "criminal law"), and does not even address the issue of
"civil law" (which is another whole large case of cans of worms). Please
read the entire section carefully, especially the "intent" portion of
subdivision (a), and specifically note:

. . .
   (b) For the purposes of this section, the following terms have the
following meanings:
   . . .
        (6) "Data" means a representation of information, knowledge, facts,
concepts, computer software, computer programs or instructions.  Data may be
in any form, in storage media, or as stored in the memory of the computer or
in transit or presented on a display device.
. . .
   (c) Except as provided in subdivision (h), any person who commits any of
the following acts is guilty of a public offense:
. . .
        (2) Knowingly accesses and without permission takes, copies, or
makes use of any data from a computer, computer system, or computer network,
or takes or copies any supporting documentation, whether existing or
residing internal or external to a computer, computer system, or computer
. . .
   (d) (1) Any person who violates any of the provisions of paragraph (1),
(2), (4), or (5) of subdivision (c) is punishable by a fine not exceeding
ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by imprisonment in the state prison for
16 months, or two or three years, or by both that fine and imprisonment, or
by a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by imprisonment
in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by both that fine and
. . .

And please don't be so ridiculous as to try and say that making a copy to
take home without permission for your own personal use or your own
commercial use in performing work for yet again someone else is within the
normal scope of your employment.

Please note that if your employer caught you trying to take a copy of his
$8K Protel software without his permission, and he was ticked off enough at
you and wanted to make an example out of you and call the police, the charge
upon which you would be arrested, handcuffed, and hauled off to jail, would
be Section 502(c)(2) of the Penal Code (I am sorry that I do not have an
Annotated Copy in front of me so that I can give you further details from
the actual "case law"). Needless to say, there would be many other things
that he could additionally do to you in terms of "civil law".

Please also bear in mind that if Altium were in fact to attempt to make an
example out of your employer and go after your employer in a big bucks
"civil lawsuit" for violating the license agreement, your employer would
have a very very large incentive to "offload" the whole problem onto you by
simply pressing criminal charges against you based on the above section of
the Penal Code (or whatever local equivalent there may be in your "neck of
the woods").

While I can't actually find a copy of my EULA right this very minute for my
Protel 99 SE, which I purchased from Altium North America here in
California, I do know that my EULA for my Protel DXP specifically states
that it is governed by the Laws of the State of California.

Abd (or anyone else), If you wish to carry this discussion any further,
please contact me offline, and I will be glad to discuss it further with


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