your comments reflect my thoughts, feelings and experience about 
this exactly
and i paid for the DXP upgrade

so far i have found it cheaper to let it collect electronic dust

Dennis Saputelli

Matt Pobursky wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:29:43 +1000, Ian Wilson wrote:
> > Otherwise the quote upgrade price is about $2500.  Lets assume a
> > designers on-cost is between 25 and 50 dollars per hour - 25 to 50
> > hours of improved productivity will pay for it, one week.  So, the
> > question then is how long will I have to be running DXP to get 25 to
> > 50 hours of productivity improvement?
> >
> > That is the real question, not the actual cost.  But this is a harder
> > question to answer.
> >
> > I have been a little disingenuous here, I haven't included the
> > learning curve which is significant in one area - queries.  Add a few
> > days for that.
> I think more than just a little disingenuous. I find it extremely
> difficult to believe that anyone not already familiar with DXP can be
> as productive as they are with 99SE "in a few days". In fact, this was
> a major factor in my cost analysis of DXP vs. 99SE that led to my
> decision to not upgrade. That and the fact that even after I go up the
> learning curve, I haven't seen anything that will make my designs
> better or happen more quickly or with less errors.
> I'm a reasonably smart guy having many years (20+) of experience with
> engineering software in general. I figured more like 1-2 months to come
> up to speed on DXP and become anywhere near as efficient as I am with
> 99SE (primary rule of engineering management: engineers are eternal
> optimists when it comes to time estimates! ;-)). I also figured I'd be
> spending the first week or two just sorting out how everything works in
> general. Following the posts on the Yahoo DXP list reinforces this
> conclusion.
> I presume you have someone paying for your "seat time", i.e. you have
> an employer that's issuing a paycheck whether your jobs are completed
> or not and also continues to pay you while you are "going up the
> learning curve" with new software. I'm an independent contractor and I
> don't get paid unless the job gets done, so any time I spend learning
> new software and struggling with a learning curve are "on my dime".
> This is a significant cost to me -- a week of "learning time" costs me
> ~$3000 in billable work. There has to be an awful lot of productivity
> increase in DXP vs. 99SE to make it a paying proposition for me.
> Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't seen much in DXP vs. 99SE
> (at least to this point) that makes a huge difference to designers
> doing everyday work (schematics and PCB's). Yes, I'm sure that some of
> the features of DXP are "nice to haves" and "must haves" for a few
> people. But for the masses of us doing basic schematic and PCB design
> work, I just don't see it -- especially when you take into account the
> "hidden costs", i.e. learning curve, design migration, etc.
> In the end, my conclusion is that DXP was primarily an artificial
> direction change by Altium to generate cash sales to please the
> stockholders and not driven by user demand. I don't believe there are
> any fundamental flaws with 99SE that couldn't have been fixed, save for
> the fact they'd be hard pressed to ask $2500-$8000 them. So drop
> support for an existing (good) product and make a new one that is
> essentially a "forced update" if you want any support into the future.
> I guess Altium figured it works great for Microsoft so they should
> adopt the method too. In the meantime, I'll be sticking with 99SE and
> living with the (known) problems it has, just as I'm sticking with
> Windows 2000 until something better from someone else comes about. I
> would love to see an SP7 that fixes the majority of existing bugs and
> would even pay for it. But even if they are not fixed and no SP7 ever
> emerges, I can't see any reason to upgrade to DXP.
> Just an opinion of a long time Protel user.
> Matt Pobursky
> Maximum Performance Systems

Dennis Saputelli

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