I am going to be as brief as possible.  JaMi, your argument does not work!!
Here is why.

1. You purchase DXP (Well you purchased ATS but for those who outright
purchased DXP and are still complaining...)
2. You found that it did not work.
3. Choose an option - a. Keep it and limp along, keeping in mind that you
could get a copy of 99SE on request. Or b. Return it for a FULL refund.

Why did you not return the product for a full refund?  

Again, JaMi, after I started writing this I recalled that you got your copy
through ATS so you are a special case; but all others who are complaining
should just give it a break.

Melvin Stevens

-----Original Message-----
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:17 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: Re: [PEDA] 2004 DXP Looks Great,

Abd,

You seem to be missing the point, so I will try and state it a little
differently.

Just about two years ago, I bought into the DXP hype, and purchased DXP, on
the
promise that it was going to be a useful productive tool that would actually
be a
cut above Protel 99 SE.

Or more specifically, I bought ATS, with the promise that a fully functional
and
fully operational DXP Product would be shortly delivered.

It is now almost 2 years later and I have still not seen a functional DXP
Product,
although I am somewhat impressed by the advanced reports regarding the new
release
of DXP, and it seems that I actually might receive the Product that I paid
for 2
years ago sometime here in the next few days in the mail.

Please do not make this out to be sour grapes on my part, because I can
assure you
that I am not by any means alone in this assessment that this long long
overdue, and
not in fact just overdue, but actually due.

In fact, this has pretty much been the prevailing, if not unanimous
sentiment in the
DXP Forums for the past year and a half. Forums, which include several
"pre-release"
Forums, all of which by the way you have been strikingly absent from,
excepting the
beginning of the initial Yahoo! DXP Forum, and the last month of the current
DXP
Technical Forum, which pretty much means that you haven't even kept yourself
abreast
of what has been really been happening or to just what extent DXP Customers
have
been dissatisfied with what has been delivered to them, and the rate of
progress on
turning DXP into a Functional Package. This Forum, the PEDA Forum, is not
necessarily an accurate gauge of all that has taken place in the past year
and a
half, especially in terms of DXP Customer dissatisfaction.

Too be sure, once the first "pre-release" of "Service Pack 3" was released
last
April, things began to start looking up, and when the second "build" of the
"pre-release" of "Service Pack 3" (the so-called "Build 104" (didn't that
come from
NT somewhere?)) was released at the end of May, there were many that thought
that
DXP could finally be used as a replacement for Protel 99 SE. Unfortunately,
Altium
refused to make that version generally available, which meant that it was
only
available thru the "beta" program, which limited it's availability to only
those who
would be willing to participate in the "beta" program. Altium further
intentionally
withheld any final release of "Service Pack 3" for over three quarters of a
year
now, until they could make some changes to the DXP Design Explorer Platform
so that
they could integrate Nexar into the Platform, which really has nothing to do
with
the basic original DXP Product, and the long overdue formal release of
"Service Pack
3".

So now, as I stated before, here we stand almost a year after the release of
the 2
"pre-release" versions of "Service Pack 3", a year and a half after the
release of
the DXP Product, and 2 years after I paid for DXP, patiently waiting for the
arrival
of what appears may be our first really functional copy of DXP.

And you, Abd, who have not participated in the DXP Forums, apparently not
even to
"monitor them" beyond what has appeared here in the PEDA Forum, now step
forth and
presume to speak as if you really know what is going on. Excuse me!

What really bothers me about this whole thing, is the bogus proposition that
this
whole thing that is now being presented to us as an "Upgrade"!

BS! What "Upgrade"!

It appears that what we actually have here is "pre-release Service Pack 3,
Build
104", with a few more fixes, renamed and finally released.

It actually looks as if 98 percent of the "fixes" in the 16 page PDF which
lists
what was done between "Service Pack 2" and the present, were actually done
in the 2
"pre-release" versions of "Service Pack 3", last year, and that actually
very little
has actually been done within the last three quarters of a year. Look at the
list
closely, especially when it comes to DXP PCB and Situs.

Then of course then there is a web page which list the "New Features" in the
"New
Release", the new "Upgraded" and renamed version of the software.

If you will look real closely at the 3 "New Features" in the software listed
under
the Situs Autorouter, you will find that the first "New Feature" listed is
"Completion".

How stupid can you get?

I mean yes, the Situs Autorouter never has been able to route even a
moderate design
to "completion", and people have been complaining about this issue in the
various
DXP Forums ever since DXP was first released, so in one sense it actually is
a "New
Feature", but to now say that it does route to "completion", and that this
fact is a
"New Feature", shows just how distorted Altium's thinking is on this "New
Product",
this "Upgrade". This in fact just verifies the fact that the Situs
Autorouter was
never fully operational to begin with. This is also somewhat disappointing
since
various people from Altium have stated in the DXP Forum in the last 6 months
that
the Situs Autorouter was undergoing a total overhaul, and even indicated
that that
might be what was holding up the final release of "Service Pack 3", and to
now here
that "Completion" is a "New Feature" is beyond comprehension. Haven't they
done
anything else to improve Situs?

I guess the final blow, the final humility, is that after I purchased DXP
under ATS
2 years ago, and after Altium promised to do away with ATS, and since I have
patiently waited for these 2 years for them to deliver a functional DXP
Product to
me, they have now relegated me to a second class citizen, since I did not
renew my
ATS this last year when it expired, since I was out of work, and couldn't
afford it,
and I now have to listen to Nick as he graciously extends me a "free
Upgrade" to the
"New Product", but at the same time tells me that I am not entitled to a
printed
manual, since after all, I am only a second class citizen and second class
customer.

BS!

Absolute BS!

Nick, Altium - You are not "giving" me anything!

I Purchased DXP 2 years ago on your promise to deliver a fully functional
and fully
operational DXP Product, and I am entitled to a fully functional and fully
operational DXP Product! You have been living off of my "purchase" of DXP
for the
last 2 years, and not just my purchase alone, but the purchases of hundreds
if not
thousands of others just like me that have purchased DXP either thru ATS or
directly, on your promise to fix the damn thing.

I am in fact very very pleased that it finally appears that you may actually
have
finally fixed most of the shortcomings of DXP, and that I may in fact
finally
receive a functional and operational DXP Product in my mail box here in the
next few
days, but please please please stop treating me as if I am a second class
citizen
and a second class customer. You are not giving me anything! I have paid for
a fully
functional and fully operational DXP Product, and I expect to get it!

Altium, please also let me remind you of the fact that Phil Loughhead has
made it
perfectly clear in a series of posts in the DXP Forum, that the name change
from DXP
to Protel 2004 was strictly for clarification to clear up the ambiguity over
calling
both the Design Explorer Platform and also the Schematic and PCB portions of
the
product, by the name DXP, and that Protel 2004 is in fact still DXP, and not
a new
or different Product.

So Please stop trying to tell me that "Protel 2004" is a new Product, and
that you
are graciously going to "give" me a "free upgrade" to it.

And yes, thank you, I would appreciate a new Printed Copy of the New Manual,
just as
I believe all of your Customers who have paid for the DXP Product would,
even those
who you have relegated to "second-class" status.

Sorry to go off like this, but I am tired of being treated like I, and all
of the
other DXP Customers who have been waiting for so long, and even have been
intentionally ignored for the last 6 months, are not entitled to what we
paid for,
and not entitled to a Printed Manual.

And yes Altium, I would gladly accept your apology for treating your loyal
customers
this way.

And please Abd, getting back to you, you are really not qualified to speak
out on
this issue, so please don't.

Respectfully submitted,

JaMi Smith




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