Bill you have the idea, just bear in mind they sell new product but act like
USED car salesmen

Yesterday I sat thru the demo of OADS 5.02 and their new Schematic package
PADS Design, you'de be amazed how many new features loked to my mind to be
stolen/copied directly from Protel 99SE



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brooks,Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation?


> I'm sure they were former auto salesmen ... 'oh, you want brakes with
it...
> well that's the diamond option, and a steering wheel? Well you need the
> platinum option...' etc... etc..
>
>
> Bill Brooks
> PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
> Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Sapienza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 12:35 PM
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation?
>
> Mike,
>
> You left out the surprise that Dimensioning is also an OPTION, yes it is
> designed for and by marketing/sales guys, must be a dream for some of
them,
> lest we forget the maintenance fee is also relative to number of options
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "edsi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation?
>
>
> > I am in agreement with Bill Brooks and his comments about PADS.  I too
own
> a seat of PADS. Unfortunately for $8500  I can't use it.  DXF is an
option,
> design rules are a $4K option and get this.....copy and paste is an
option.
> GONG! piece of crap for $8500.
> >
> > If you asked me several years ago about Protel, I would stack it against
> anything ( providing you never attempted to user the router). The main
> advantage was user interface and getting up to speed.  There is no clear
> advantage to other products. DXP is as cumbersome and awkward to use as
> PCAD, Cadence, or Mentor. So given that all is equal
> > Mentor is the  clear winner.
> >
> > Altium better start to listen to folks like Ray.  Ray came to the same
> conclusions that everyone else has about DXP without anyone holding a
> prompter if front of him.  Ray's statement are pretty significant from a
> marketing standpoint
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Reagan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > From: "Brooks,Bill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:  Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:12:42 -0700
> >
> > >Ray,
> > >
> > >I made the mistake that you are considering before. The group I was
with
> in
> > >Temecula bought Pads on my misguided recommendation... I was taken in
by
> the
> > >demo. The guys made it look so easy, then when I got the software and
> > >realized they sold me a package that was stripped down compared to the
> one
> > >they demonstrated... I saw red.  If I wanted the package that did all
the
> > >fancy stuff like interactive routing and push and shove placement....
> etc, I
> > >would have to pay thousands more for the 'add-ons'. The total would
come
> to
> > >about 22K... we chose not to by more stuff, but to try to get along
with
> > >what we bought. I cussed aloud many times when trying to learn to use
the
> > >software on my own. I took a 1 day compressed class and that didn't
help
> > >much either...
> > >
> > >Pads is functional, if not confusing... and if you don't know any tool
it
> > >can be fine, you just need to allow yourself 6 months to a year to get
it
> to
> > >be really useful. Learning all the 'work arounds' can be a full time
job,
> > >and very frustrating when you have a job to get done. I spent a lot of
> time
> > >on the phone with the tech support guy in Los Angeles, He speaks with a
> > >Russian accent to boot. That was not fun when he was out on sales
> calls...
> > >
> > >The thing I am trying to say is, Protel was what we purchased after
> fighting
> > >with the PADS program for a month and a half. PADS would not take back
> their
> > >software, so we had to eat the 12 grand we invested in that software.
> Later
> > >I took a class at Palomar College that was using PADS and walked
through
> a
> > >full semester of training with the package and still I don't like it,
but
> I
> > >was able to use it. It's a frustrating package for a guy like me who
> expects
> > >to find the print command under the word, print. There's was buried in
> some
> > >dialog box that had no reference to printing at all.
> > >
> > >Protel has been a better software package than the PADS program was for
> me,
> > >mostly because Protel was more intuitive to use, I spent less time
> looking
> > >for a command or feature than I did with PADS and it was easier to use
> and
> > >it let me undo mistakes which PADS was notorious for NOT letting me do.
> > >
> > >The new 2004 product remains to be seen... I would be patient and don't
> get
> > >too discouraged with all the talk you hear on this forum... some of us
> are
> > >real idealists... I think I'm included in that group.
> > >
> > >As soon as I can get the time to spend on kicking the tires on the new
> > >software I will let you know what I think of where we are with Protel.
> > >In the mean time you can ask specific questions about the functionality
> on
> > >this forum and you might consider get the training class that Matthew
> > >Berggren does on Protel if you can. It was helpful in getting a better
> sense
> > >of what the software can do and where you can go with it. Although I
> found
> > >when I was learning Protel that a local designer who had been using it
> since
> > >version 2.0 was more savvy and had better 'tricks' for being productive
> with
> > >it than I got anywhere else.
> > >
> > >I have been using Protel since version 98 and that was in 1998. It's
not
> a
> > >bad package. There are just some features I wish it had that are less
> than
> > >perfect, but hopefully they will iron those out in the future.
> > >
> > >Feel free to give me a call if you need help. Or just publish your
> questions
> > >here and you have a lot of years of PROTEL experience here at your
> > >fingertips with all these great guys and gals listening in. They will
be
> > >glad to help and discuss your issues I'm sure and even some of them are
> > >programmers who will write user commands that you can use to get better
> > >productivity out of the software.
> > >
> > >(Okay, so now I am an apologist for the Altium company... so shoot
me...)
> > >
> > >
> > >Actually, the best combo I have used so far in this price range is the
> Orcad
> > >schematic package with the Protel PCB editor and the Specctra
Autorouter
> and
> > >AutoCad for the drafting of mechanical things like board outlines,
> > >dimensions, etc...
> > >
> > >We use the schematic package here that comes with Protel and we get by
> with
> > >it. Have for the last 3 years.
> > >
> > >
> > >Bill Brooks
> > >PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
> > >TITAN CORPORATION
> > >DATRON WORLD COMMUNICATIONS DIVISION
> > >3030 Enterprise Court, Vista, CA 92083
> > >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Website:
> http://www.titan.com/business_units/index.html?organization_id=81
> > >Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
> > >_______________________________________
> > >Member of the San Diego Chapter of the IPC Designers Council
> > >Communications Officer, Web Manager
> > >http://dcchapters.ipc.org/SanDiego/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Ray Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:42 AM
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: [PEDA] Good schematic/PCB development suite recommendation?
> > >
> > >Our group has used Protel for years.  I've tried to get everyone to
> change
> > >to something else for most of that time but the resistance has been
> fairly
> > >great.  It seems that the the philosophy has been that pain you know is
> > >preferable to the pain you don't know.  However, with the introduction
of
> > >DXP/2004 everyone is starting to realize that a good tool is needed.
Is
> > >there something that is generally considered to be the best?  I realize
> > >that some of the tools cost significantly more but when the
frustration,
> > >poor results, and wasted time are considered, it may not actually be
that
> > >expensive.  One of the guys here uses PADS and really likes it.  If we
> make
> > >a change we don't want to make the same mistake we made with Protel
> again.
> > >
> > >Ray Mitchell
> > >Engineer, Code 2732
> > >SPAWAR Systems Center
> > >San Diego, CA. 92152
> > >(619)553-5344
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>



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