Mikko/Tuco/Ryan,

It seems that you are hard at work, and I can see the progress that you are
making, but just as you stated previously... lots of work still needs to be
done (and ModRex still has a long way to go before it's ready for Beta
testing).

I believe many are confusing Alpha Testing (Debuggers) with Beta Testing
(mainstream content developer Testers and Users).

I see you've been moving quickly, but it's hard to even tell when we would
even be close to a Beta. Thank-you for posting the ModRex binaries to the
OpenSim forge.  It will at least give a few early adopters something to cry
about.  ;-)

*> And as mentioned in release notes: This is prealpha release. It may
break. It may trash *
*> your **sim. This release shouldn't be used for production.
*
Everyone has been properly warned.  Let the herds do what they will with
it.

*> We all know the actual limits of modrex.
> What do we want is a build we can start working on :
>
> creating contents
> validating toolchains
> make good documentations
*
I understand what "we ALL want", but after reading Mikko's previous
comments, it's pretty safe to say that... ModRex just isn't ready yet.  The
warnings and disclaimers should be enough of a warning to fend off the weak
at heart.

The strong at heart will tinker, and I'll setup a separate site for "gripes
and complaints" so that we are not bombarding this whole thread (with Alpha
Testing complaints).  Personally, I will probably just start with one single
region, and try to see if it's possible to move "Beneath The Sea" from the
0.4 Server over to a ModRex build, and then from there do what we can to
slowly implement the ModRex features (to try and get "Beneath The Sea" to
work properly under ModRex).

The developers still need time to work though, and as we upgrade the
"Beneath the Sea" to ModRex at least it will give us an opportunity to do a
little bit of testing, and give the developers a bit of feedback.

I may give it another few weeks, and let Mikko and his crew continue their
work.  I know everyone is in a rush to get something "usable" so we can
begin creating content, begin demo work, and begin good documentation (and
tutorials / video tutorials), but it seems we may have to just be patient
and just give the core ModRex developers more time.

I can see the progress from the ModRex WIKI pages, but we still have a long
way to go on updating documentation and most users don't realize how
"unfinished" and "unstable" ModRex still is at this point.  So the
"PRE-ALPHA" binaries have been posted (as Mikko stated) to SourceForge.  If
you are bold, and strong at heart... give it a try, but just don't cry or
complain.  (You've been fairly warned).

At this point, all we can do is give Mikko and the developers more time.
They are hard at work, and we can see the progress they are making, but they
really truely need more time to slowly mature the product (so we can begin
truely testing ModRex).

*> I think the problem is: if you can't debug why monodevelop crashes,
> how will you debug it when ModreX crashes?
*
Ryan has made a very good and very valid point.  As Mikko has stated
previously, this is almost not even an Alpha, this is a PRE-ALPHA.  ModRex
really does need more time, and more hard work.

I understand that everyone is anxious, but messing around with a PRE-ALPHA
is almost like beating your head against a wall.  Code still needs to be
written, and tons of documentation needs to be updated.

The developers need more time, and I don't think everyone "fully understood"
the infancy of the current status of ModRex.  The progress charts (with
implemented features) seemed a tad bit misleading to some (at first glance)
probably because many are anxious for a "usable build" and I was personally
shocked at how far ModRex has come and how quickly the developers are
working.

A ModRex build has been posted, if you can't wait any longer then dive in
and enjoy the heartache, and I'll setup a Rex Community Area where you can
share your comments and thoughts (and struggles) as you tinker with the
PRE-ALPHA release.

As we move closer to an actual Alpha, then we can begin truely working on
content creation (as ModRex becomes more stable, and more mature).  I can
see that a LOT has been done so far, but as Mikko has stated previously... *"It
may break. It may trash your sim. This release shouldn't be used for
production."*

Paul Fishwick stated:

*> The sum total of all knowledge of how to make modrex is documented
> in: 
> **http://opensimulator.org/wiki/ModRex*<http://opensimulator.org/wiki/ModRex>
*> However, I noted in this release that there is the following folder:
Physics
> containing ModularRexOdePlugin.dll and RexDotMeshLoader.dll. There
> was no communication or readme file indicating that these needed to be
> built. Should I update the procedure on the above web page?*

Paul, yes... please do!  The OpenSim ModRex WIKI page does need some work.
ModRex Documentation needs LOTS of work.  Tutorials (with step-by-step
procedures) still need to be written and the ReadMe file needs some updating
as well.

 I wanted to keep a vanilla OpenSim Grid running (for content development),
but also wanted to connect a separate ModRex region to the Grid (for testing
and "sandbox" purposes).  Would this be possible?

*>> One of the biggest missing features is multi region support. This means:
>> no hyper grid, no grid mode, not more than one region in sim etc.
*
Mikko, I understand ModRex is still under development and this may sound
like an incredibly stupid question, but is there any possibility of running
both *ModRex* and *non-ModRex* regions on the same Grid?  Has any thought
gone into "backwards compatibility"?

Could something like this be done?  Is this a feature that could be
added?  Is there any possibility that ModRex could be implemented on the
same main Grid Server and that ModRex could be enabled or disabled on a "per
region server" basis (in the OpenSim.ini file?) while still allowing "*
non-ModRex*" region servers to connect to the main ModRex Grid and
maintaining backwards compatiblity with both *ModRex* and
*non-ModRex*region servers on the same Grid?




On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:40 AM, Mikko Pallari <[email protected]
> wrote:

>
> I made a release of the ModRex to the OpenSim forge. See:
> http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/modrex/frs/
>
> And as mentioned in release notes: This is prealpha release. It may break.
> It may trash your sim. This release shouldn't be used for production.
>
> ______________________________
> Mikko Pallari
> Server Technical Lead in RealXtend
>
> ADMINO technologies
> www.adminotech.com
> www.realxtend.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Ryan McDougall
> Sent: 18. helmikuuta 2009 11:31
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: RealXtend Server 0.62 - Was: Re: [REX] Re: What is the status
> of ModRex?
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Lc <[email protected]> wrote:
> > We all know the actual limits of modrex.
> > What do we want is a build we can start working on :
> >
> > creating contents
> > validating toolchains
> > make good documentations
> >
> > The goal is not testing all the bells and wistles but starting working
> > seriously on that product and I won't spend a week to understand why
> > monodevelop crash as soon as i load osim+modrex
>
> I think the problem is: if you can't debug why monodevelop crashes,
> how will you debug it when ModreX crashes?
>
> Cheers,
>
> >
> > Sm
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Mikko Pallari
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> As Ryan said, ModRex is not yet ready for wider testing. It is still
> very
> >> Alpha.
> >>
> >> To clarify the state of ModRex I quote Adam Frisbys blog
> >> (http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/01/modrex-02a-now-in-svn/):
> "Please
> >> remember, this is alpha software. Not like OpenSim 'it sort of kinda
> works'
> >> alpha, but really early code. It may break. It may trash your sim. It
> may
> >> kill small children."
> >>
> >> Although this was from about a month ago and we have made progress since
> >> that, I still think that this applies.
> >>
> >> One of the biggest missing features is multi region support. This means:
> >> no hyper grid, no grid mode, not more than one region in sim etc.
> >>
> >> ______________________________
> >> Mikko Pallari
> >> Server Technical Lead in RealXtend
> >>
> >> ADMINO technologies
> >> www.adminotech.com
> >> www.realxtend.org
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> >> Behalf Of [email protected]
> >> Sent: 17. helmikuuta 2009 21:03
> >> To: realXtend
> >> Subject: Re: RealXtend Server 0.62 - Was: Re: [REX] Re: What is the
> status
> >> of ModRex?
> >>
> >>
> >> On 17 feb, 19:10, Ryan McDougall <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Mark Malewski <
> [email protected]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > I don't think there is any case of wanting "100%" done. I have been
> >> > working on open source for my entire professional career, and I
> >> > understand "release early, release often". However I also understand
> >> > that at this point reX is alpha software, and alpha software isn't
> >> > meant for users yet. It's meant for people with the stomach for
> >> > downloading from SVN, compiling it themselves, and helping with bug
> >> > reports. The source is freely available, and building it isn't very
> >> > difficult compared to any other project in an alpha status.
> >>
> >> I see where you are coming from, and I partially agree. However, there
> >> is an amount of users that, I think, has enough technical
> >> understanding to set things up and could contribute bug reports.
> >> However, they don't have the technical knowhow to do a full compile,
> >> or simply not the amount of time required to figure out how to do it
> >> due to lack of experience. I know I am one of those people.
> >>
> >> I do not quite see what the problem is with just releasing an alpha
> >> binary with a huge warning sign "HEY, THIS IS NOT FINISHED!". Same way
> >> opensim does it.
> >>
> >> The way I understand the status of ModRex is currently, is that it
> >> lacks a number of features that it needs to be considered "featureful
> >> enough" by the REX team to be ocnsidered beta. However, in my opinion,
> >> the stuff that needs to work for it to be worthwhile to release for
> >> many people, in my opinion is simply:
> >> 1) not crash every 2 minutes
> >> 2) accept .mesh files (and collission meshes etc).
> >> (optional) 3) hopefully be compatible with future modrex releases
> >>
> >> It already does this and far more. So, why not release a preliminary
> >> binary for this community of "pro users" (as I'll call it...) to help
> >> out.
> >>
> >> As long as you keep the download info fairly obscure (i.e. not put it
> >> on the download page but make it clear to everyone who looks for it
> >> where or from whom to get it), I do not see how this could harm
> >> RealXtend.
> >>
> >> Thanks, I hope you understand my point of view.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> >
>

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