That's the problem with using some stats. You can't just subtract the caught stealing from the stolen. The caught stealing were "outs". Not just one fewer base.
----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] <[email protected]> To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Fri Dec 18 13:58:02 2009 Subject: Re: Dealing Ellsbury? 188 hits = 143 Singles 27 doubles 10 Triples 8 HRs Add 70SBs - 12CS and you have the equivalent of 61 Singles 75 Doubles 10 Triples 8 HRs I On Dec 18, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Ray Salemi wrote: > How did you do that transformation? > > On 12/18/09, Charles Battikha <[email protected]> wrote: >> Another stat for Jacoby.... >> >> If you take into account 70 steals/12 caught stealing, you have >> >> BA: 285 >> OB: 334 >> SLG: 468 >> OBS: 802 >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 18, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Ray Salemi wrote: >> >>> It's actually worse than Power/Speed. It's hitting speed. >>> >>> here are the BA/OBA/SLG/OPS numbers for both from last year. >>> >>> Ellsbury: >>> >>> .301 .355 .415 .770 >>> >>> Gonzalez: >>> .277 .407 .551 .958 >>> >>> No contest. >>> >>> Gonzalez gets on base more often and hit's the ball further. >>> >>> Ray >>> >>> PS. This is a great example of the limitations of batting average. >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Matt & Olga McSorley >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> We've devolved into the scout/stat argument again. Here is the real issue >>> in making the decision to trade Ellsbury for Adrian Gonzalez: >>> >>> Power>Speed. >>> >>> -- Matt >>> >>> From: Ray Salemi <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 11:46:29 AM >>> Subject: Re: Dealing Ellsbury? >>> >>> I am ashamed. >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Chain of Command was a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode.....c'mon >>> people. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >>> "Stat's are valuable" First time I've ever heard you utter that phrase on >>> this list. >>> >>> And who doesn't want to hear about Deep Space Nine? (That was an obscure >>> reference. Good job!) >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Beaudoin, John >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> If you’re going to use my name, then please don’t speak for me and say >>> that I dismiss stats completely. I fully admit they are valuable and my >>> point, yet again, is that some people look only at the stats. Why can’t >>> someone say that they like the way a guy plays. Based on Pedroia’s >>> statiscal body size and weight, he shouldn’t have been given a chance. >>> Thank God there are scouts who see beyond stats. Or will you argue that >>> weight and height are not stats? >>> >>> >>> How can you possibly say that objective counting says that Ellsbury >>> doesn’t get to as many balls? And who the heck wants to hear about Star >>> Trek Deep Space Nine during a baseball discussion? How many players >>> compared to Ellsbury in centerfield have to play in a ballpark with a >>> friggin triangle and a center field that is laid out just like Fenway >>> Park? Because of all the variables in baseball, you can’t draw concrete >>> conclusions. You’re entitled to your opinion, but you should not tell me >>> my opinion and then argue against it. Stats are valuable, but they are >>> only a piece of what I use to form my opinions. I believe that others on >>> here talk stats all the time and I don’t use anything but stats to form >>> their opinions. Or am I to believe that the few people on here who think >>> Ellsbury isn’t as good a centerfielder as JD Drew is a rightfielder must >>> be smarter than … say … 95% of the fans of baseball? >>> >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Salemi >>> Sent: Friday, December 18, 2009 10:47 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Dealing Ellsbury? >>> >>> >>> I think Bill James would be unhappy to hear his name used this way. >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:05 AM, William Marino <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I will take a good scout, with a proven track record, over Bill James any >>> day of the week. >>> >>> >>> I got to see Bill James speak at the Museum of Science and I asked him a >>> question about this topic. I asked him if teams go through all this >>> statistical analysis, but then make the decision based on the opinion that >>> "he has a pretty swing." >>> >>> Bill James actually batted me down a bit in his answer. He said that he >>> felt this question of stats vs. scouts was a false question. He believes >>> that while stats are valuable, and need to be used, that scouts have >>> thousands of hours of experience and also know what they are talking >>> about. >>> >>> John's mistake has been to dismiss stats completely, as he did earlier in >>> the thread. Stats provide insight. They especially provide insight to >>> those of use who do not have thousands of hours watching ballplayers and >>> who don't watch them every day. Fans are especially prone to only >>> remember plays that support their opinion. >>> >>> John claims that Ellbury gets to more balls than most players, but >>> objective counting says Ellsbury doesn't. In this case, intuition has to >>> give way to counting. I'm sorry, but no amount of intuition will make the >>> number four into the number five (even if you are being tortured by a >>> Cardassian sadist). >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in >>> Just 12 Weeks" >>> www.leadingafteralayoff.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in >>> Just 12 Weeks" >>> www.leadingafteralayoff.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in >>> Just 12 Weeks" >>> www.leadingafteralayoff.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity > in Just 12 Weeks" > www.leadingafteralayoff.com > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en.
