RE: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Richard Schweizer]

 

To anyone that has studied IT, Project Management, or any other topic 
management topic know it's all about time, cost, and scope. This can be that 
most greatest system it the world but it's getting to cost $$$ and take some 
time.  So therefore the ARRL should charge the users the required cost ... SO 
PROBLEM SOLVED !! 73,   W2CF

Richard T. Schweizer

377 Canterbury Dr.

Ramsey,  NJ  07446

 

Telephone: (201) 825-4318

 > From: wn3...@verizon.net
> To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
> Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT]  LOTW cannot possibly catch up
> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 18:56:42 -0500
> 
> 
> Blaming the ARRL IT staff for the problem is pointless.  I've dealt with
> them in the past on issues.  They are doing the best they can with what
> resources they have been given.  
> 
> To use a poor analogy:  This is akin to blaming the ditch digger for using a
> shovel, when a backhoe would be faster.  The ditch digger would rather have
> a backhoe as well, but it's all he was issued.  Or, it's akin to blaming the
> line crew working on a downed power line for taking 2 hours to arrive
> instead of 15 minutes, when it was the power company's management that
> consolidated the local maintenance garages into one central one 25 miles
> away, and then reduced the staff levels due to "redundancy" and
> "efficiency."
> 
> As I have said here and elsewhere:  If you don't like the situation -- and I
> don't like it either -- complaining here is pointless.  If you are an ARRL
> member, complain to your Division Director.  The Division Directors make up
> the ARRL Board, and they are SUPPOSED to listen to the membership -- that's
> us, and remember, WE are the League, not the Board, not the HQ staff, but
> US, the members.  If we don't tell them we're concerned, and that we want
> something done... nothing will happen.
> 
> Further, considering that in the recent past...
> 
> -- the design bug has been discovered and fixed, so no more mysterious loss
> of logs
> -- the update process is now more transparent, as new tools are available to
> track upload processing
> -- new hardware is on order
> -- the "Trusted QSL" open source project is being reopened (that's the
> programming that is at least part of the LotW system), and C++ developers
> are being sought to help -- and if you don't believe me on that or you
> didn't get the email, just ask AA6YQ
> 
> ... I'd say that the Directors ARE hearing our concerns, and that they ARE
> telling the HQ staff to devote more resources to the system, and that things
> ARE moving along.  Maybe not as fast as we want, but they ARE in progress.
> 
> It may not be ideal.  It's a start.
> 
> So insulting the people "in the trenches" working on the system does little
> to no good.  Kvetching about things here may blow off steam & make you feel
> better, but does little good.
> 
> You want something done?  Contact your Division Director.  And keep
> contacting him (or her).  
> 
> 73, ron w3wn
> -Original Message-
> From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 4:18 PM
> To: w...@suddenlink.net
> Cc: Dx-Chat
> Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up
> 
> 
> 
> > SO, please let me ask; what do the complainers expect to accomplish
> > by continuing to kick this horse?
> 
> How about getting others involved in *doing something* about the
> problem?  Since the ARRL IT department seems to want to bury its
> head in the sand and claims a new storage system will magically
> fix all the ills of LotW after doing nothing for three years ...
> since ARRL Management wants to spend as little as possible on LotW
> and has basically ignored it for six years, how about screaming at
> your Director to provide real resources for LotW and DX programs
> for a change?
> 
> In case folks have forgotten, the DXCC Yearbook is no longer being
> mailed to each participant for free.  DXCC fees went up this year,
> LotW fees went up this year (for those who generally purchased in
> bulk), etc.  DX and contest related programs have been getting the
> short end of the stick for a lot of years ... this is one place
> that the line needs to be drawn.  Fix LotW - stop giving it lip
> service.
> 
> Instead of a clear and well researched diagnosis after appropriate
> tests and consultation, this patient who is slipping into a coma is
> being told "take this expensive pill and call me in six months if
> you don't improve."
> 
> 
> 73,
> 
>... Joe, W4TV
> 
> 
> On 12/15/2012 2:55 PM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote:
&g

RE: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Blaming the ARRL IT staff for the problem is pointless.  I've dealt with
them in the past on issues.  They are doing the best they can with what
resources they have been given.  

To use a poor analogy:  This is akin to blaming the ditch digger for using a
shovel, when a backhoe would be faster.  The ditch digger would rather have
a backhoe as well, but it's all he was issued.  Or, it's akin to blaming the
line crew working on a downed power line for taking 2 hours to arrive
instead of 15 minutes, when it was the power company's management that
consolidated the local maintenance garages into one central one 25 miles
away, and then reduced the staff levels due to "redundancy" and
"efficiency."

As I have said here and elsewhere:  If you don't like the situation -- and I
don't like it either -- complaining here is pointless.  If you are an ARRL
member, complain to your Division Director.  The Division Directors make up
the ARRL Board, and they are SUPPOSED to listen to the membership -- that's
us, and remember, WE are the League, not the Board, not the HQ staff, but
US, the members.  If we don't tell them we're concerned, and that we want
something done... nothing will happen.

Further, considering that in the recent past...

-- the design bug has been discovered and fixed, so no more mysterious loss
of logs
-- the update process is now more transparent, as new tools are available to
track upload processing
-- new hardware is on order
-- the "Trusted QSL" open source project is being reopened (that's the
programming that is at least part of the LotW system), and C++ developers
are being sought to help -- and if you don't believe me on that or you
didn't get the email, just ask AA6YQ

... I'd say that the Directors ARE hearing our concerns, and that they ARE
telling the HQ staff to devote more resources to the system, and that things
ARE moving along.  Maybe not as fast as we want, but they ARE in progress.

It may not be ideal.  It's a start.

So insulting the people "in the trenches" working on the system does little
to no good.  Kvetching about things here may blow off steam & make you feel
better, but does little good.

You want something done?  Contact your Division Director.  And keep
contacting him (or her).  

73, ron w3wn
-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2012 4:18 PM
To: w...@suddenlink.net
Cc: Dx-Chat
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up



> SO, please let me ask; what do the complainers expect to accomplish
> by continuing to kick this horse?

How about getting others involved in *doing something* about the
problem?  Since the ARRL IT department seems to want to bury its
head in the sand and claims a new storage system will magically
fix all the ills of LotW after doing nothing for three years ...
since ARRL Management wants to spend as little as possible on LotW
and has basically ignored it for six years, how about screaming at
your Director to provide real resources for LotW and DX programs
for a change?

In case folks have forgotten, the DXCC Yearbook is no longer being
mailed to each participant for free.  DXCC fees went up this year,
LotW fees went up this year (for those who generally purchased in
bulk), etc.  DX and contest related programs have been getting the
short end of the stick for a lot of years ... this is one place
that the line needs to be drawn.  Fix LotW - stop giving it lip
service.

Instead of a clear and well researched diagnosis after appropriate
tests and consultation, this patient who is slipping into a coma is
being told "take this expensive pill and call me in six months if
you don't improve."


73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/15/2012 2:55 PM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote:
>
> All of us on this reflector are painfully aware that LoTW has a
> problem,  Additionally we all have seen this discussion go on ad
> nausium. All of us are concerned about the problem.  None of this is new
> NEWS.  So far I have told you nothing new.  The complaining goes on &
> on, and accomplishes nothing.
>
> SO, please let me ask;  what do the complainers expect to accomplish by
> continuing to kick this horse?  If you just like to hear yourself
> complain, please, just send the e-mails to yourself, and spare the rest
> of us from having to deal with all of the superfluous BS.
>
> 73,
> Mike, W5UC
>
>
>
>
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>
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RE: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Dave AA6YQ]

Every transaction-oriented software system has a performance bottleneck that
limits its throughput. Eliminating that bottleneck -- either by improving
the software or upgrading the hardware -- always reveals the next
bottleneck.

The ARRL has determined that LotW's throughput is limited by the rate at
which new QSOs can be inserted into the database, and has ordered a new
storage subsystem to eliminate this bottleneck. This step is necessary, but
may or may not be sufficient; we should know in 4-6 weeks.

At present, ~50% of the QSOs uploaded to LotW are duplicates. There are
several practical ways to reduce the load that these duplicates impose on
LotW without imposing onerous requirements on users; at least one of them
will be implemented.

The ARRL is now providing daily LotW status updates and hourly LotW Queue
Length updates, a level of transparency we have  long sought and should
further encourage. Cynical, sarcastic, non-constructive posts
second-guessing the ARRL's course of action are not the best way to
accomplish this.

I am not suggesting that anyone back off on expressing their interest in
seeing LotW restored to reliable service.  The constructive message to send
to ARRL management and representatives is this: 

"I'm glad that ARRL management is finally attending to LotW and hope that
this first step is sufficient; but if it's not, I expect them to waste no
time in taking the follow-on actions required to bring LotW to an acceptable
level of throughput and reliability, keeping the user community abreast of
their efforts".

  73,

   Dave, AA6YQ




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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

SO, please let me ask; what do the complainers expect to accomplish
by continuing to kick this horse?


How about getting others involved in *doing something* about the
problem?  Since the ARRL IT department seems to want to bury its
head in the sand and claims a new storage system will magically
fix all the ills of LotW after doing nothing for three years ...
since ARRL Management wants to spend as little as possible on LotW
and has basically ignored it for six years, how about screaming at
your Director to provide real resources for LotW and DX programs
for a change?

In case folks have forgotten, the DXCC Yearbook is no longer being
mailed to each participant for free.  DXCC fees went up this year,
LotW fees went up this year (for those who generally purchased in
bulk), etc.  DX and contest related programs have been getting the
short end of the stick for a lot of years ... this is one place
that the line needs to be drawn.  Fix LotW - stop giving it lip
service.

Instead of a clear and well researched diagnosis after appropriate
tests and consultation, this patient who is slipping into a coma is
being told "take this expensive pill and call me in six months if
you don't improve."


73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/15/2012 2:55 PM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote:


All of us on this reflector are painfully aware that LoTW has a
problem,  Additionally we all have seen this discussion go on ad
nausium. All of us are concerned about the problem.  None of this is new
NEWS.  So far I have told you nothing new.  The complaining goes on &
on, and accomplishes nothing.

SO, please let me ask;  what do the complainers expect to accomplish by
continuing to kick this horse?  If you just like to hear yourself
complain, please, just send the e-mails to yourself, and spare the rest
of us from having to deal with all of the superfluous BS.

73,
Mike, W5UC




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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[d...@optonline.net]

Might want to consider creating a filter for the thread?  Maybe filter 
out any messages with LoTW in the subject field ;)


73, Mike, K2CD

Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote:


All of us on this reflector are painfully aware that LoTW has a 
problem,  Additionally we all have seen this discussion go on ad 
nausium. All of us are concerned about the problem.  None of this is 
new NEWS.  So far I have told you nothing new.  The complaining goes 
on & on, and accomplishes nothing.


SO, please let me ask;  what do the complainers expect to accomplish 
by continuing to kick this horse?  If you just like to hear yourself 
complain, please, just send the e-mails to yourself, and spare the 
rest of us from having to deal with all of the superfluous BS.


73,
Mike, W5UC





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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Charlie Gallo]

On 12/15/2012 Donald Greenbaum wrote:


> I don't understand the angst over a backlog of processing data during 
> the end of the year rush.  Unless the world really is going to end in 
> a week like the Mayans predicted.

> 73
> Don
> N1DG


Partly because those of us who have been watching have come to realize that 
LOTW was 1)Losing files - which the league finally admitted and 2)the 
processing rate is getting MUCH slower, to the point that the delay is getting 
longer and longer, on the rough order of 20-23 hours/day (most days).  The are 
currently at 10+ days - at THAT rate, we will be at 18 days for a file that is 
uploaded today, by that time, we'll be at 36 days.  If things are not fixed, in 
2-3 months, the backlog will be LONGER than your 3 months to get a card back

The issue is not even that.  I don't know if you are in the software business, 
I am, and a lot of people who are worried are also.  We are seeing the symptoms 
of a system that is in distress and in danger of failure.  We know that these 
kinds of problems are NOT usually a simple fix, and even if it is, there is 
significant testing needed.  The time to call for the ARRL to fix the problem 
is before the system fails.  

Think of it like the STS Challenger - the engineers were watching the O rings, 
and were saying 'there are problems, that seem to get worse at low temps, but 
management kept saying 'no problem'.  The trick is to SEE the problem BEFORE 
the system totally melts down

This is the system showing a cough, and maybe if we do something now, we can 
save it before it dies, instead of waiting for it to turn to pneumonia and 
dyeing



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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH)]

All of us on this reflector are painfully aware that LoTW has a 
problem,  Additionally we all have seen this discussion go on ad 
nausium. All of us are concerned about the problem.  None of this is new 
NEWS.  So far I have told you nothing new.  The complaining goes on & 
on, and accomplishes nothing.


SO, please let me ask;  what do the complainers expect to accomplish by 
continuing to kick this horse?  If you just like to hear yourself 
complain, please, just send the e-mails to yourself, and spare the rest 
of us from having to deal with all of the superfluous BS.


73,
Mike, W5UC




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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> LOTW even at 20 days is a tremendous tool.

I'm not concerned about 20 days for a confirmation.  My concern is
20 days (or more) even before the initial transaction is processed
and I get confirmation that the QSOs are safely in the database.


I'm confident they'll figure this out, it's probably not a hardware
issue only, but the database bogging down under the mountain of data.


I'm confident that it's not a hardware issue - the same hardware could
process 100 QSOs/minute when LotW first went online according to info
I've received privately from those who were there at the time.  I would
bet the storage hardware has not been properly maintained and "tuned"
as the application changed.  New storage hardware is a band-aid ...
nothing more.

LotW will have gone from 200 million QSO records in January 2009 to
more than 470 million by the end of this year - that's over 3,000
QSOs/per hour.  In the last 19 days more than 4.6 million new QSO
records have been added to the database - that's more than 191,000
per day (3,200/hr).  Now if LotW did not have a problem with 3,000
QSO/s per hour average (other than an occasional one or two day
backlog around CQWW and ARRL DX) why does it suddenly have a 20
day delay?

The issue is that ARRL's IT department and management have ignored
the warning signs.  Work should have been in full swing for some
time to upgrade the entire program - not just a storage subsystem
on an emergency basis and "patch" the tQSL interface - with something
designed to handle the size and scope of a modern LotW.  As it is,
Newington still seems to have its collective head buried in the sand.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/15/2012 8:35 AM, Donald Greenbaum wrote:

Remember the days when you mailed in cards to the league and it took 3
months. to process?

I'll take 10 days over that anytime.

It used to take 6 years to get your cards back from Box 88.   Now I see
even our Russian friends are on LOTW.   And I had my PT0S 160 Qso
confirmed in days.

LOTW even at 20 days is a tremendous tool.  I'm confident they'll figure
this out, it's probably not a hardware issue only, but the database
bogging down under the mountain of data.  These things aren't as easily
managed and scaleable as they appear to people not in the IT world.

I don't understand the angst over a backlog of processing data during
the end of the year rush.  Unless the world really is going to end in a
week like the Mayans predicted.

73
Don
N1DG





At 12:24 PM 12/14/2012, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:



Go to the LOTW site and read carefully. There is a discussion that
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to
arrive in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!


That is if you *believe* the claim that the hardware will fix it.

With a very large database, decreases in throughput can just as
easily be due to reaching a tipping point in the database structure
(the point at which the indexing fails).  Since there has been no
diagnostic data reported to support the hardware hypothesis, users
are left in a "trust me" position while the processing delay vaults
past ten days as of approximately 16:30z today - on its way to 20
days by the end of the month.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/14/2012 11:42 AM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote:


Go to the LOTW site and read carefully.  There is a discussion that
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to arrive
in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!  RELAX!!!   Constantly getting
your shorts all in a wad is uncomfortable, and bad for your health.  It
raises your blood pressure.

73,
Mike, W5UC





On 12/14/2012 9:08 AM, Charlie Wooten NF4A wrote:

I wish you guys would quitcherbitchin about LOTW.give em a chance
to fix
the problem.don't sit there and criticize something that is
allowing you
to get DXCC confirmations in lightning speed compared to 10 years
agotake off your "computer expert" hat and let the league's staff
deal
with the problem..

NF4A





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-
N1DG--Licensed since 1962
EX-WB2DND, A61AD (GUEST OP, QSL MGR), A52DG, /KH9, /BV, /VS6, /4X, /9V
Pilot:  VU7RG, 3Y0X, VK9ML, D68C, VK0IR, K8XP/KH9, 9M0C, ZK1XXP, ZL9CI
Webmaster: VP8ORK, K4M, BS7H, K5K, A52A, VK0IR, 9M0C, ZK1XXP,
WB2DND/KH

Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Donald Greenbaum]

Remember the days when you mailed in cards to the league and it took 
3 months. to process?


I'll take 10 days over that anytime.

It used to take 6 years to get your cards back from Box 88.   Now I 
see even our Russian friends are on LOTW.   And I had my PT0S 160 Qso 
confirmed in days.


LOTW even at 20 days is a tremendous tool.  I'm confident they'll 
figure this out, it's probably not a hardware issue only, but the 
database bogging down under the mountain of data.  These things 
aren't as easily managed and scaleable as they appear to people not 
in the IT world.


I don't understand the angst over a backlog of processing data during 
the end of the year rush.  Unless the world really is going to end in 
a week like the Mayans predicted.


73
Don
N1DG





At 12:24 PM 12/14/2012, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:



Go to the LOTW site and read carefully. There is a discussion that
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to
arrive in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!


That is if you *believe* the claim that the hardware will fix it.

With a very large database, decreases in throughput can just as
easily be due to reaching a tipping point in the database structure
(the point at which the indexing fails).  Since there has been no
diagnostic data reported to support the hardware hypothesis, users
are left in a "trust me" position while the processing delay vaults
past ten days as of approximately 16:30z today - on its way to 20
days by the end of the month.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/14/2012 11:42 AM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote:


Go to the LOTW site and read carefully.  There is a discussion that
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to arrive
in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!  RELAX!!!   Constantly getting
your shorts all in a wad is uncomfortable, and bad for your health.  It
raises your blood pressure.

73,
Mike, W5UC





On 12/14/2012 9:08 AM, Charlie Wooten NF4A wrote:

I wish you guys would quitcherbitchin about LOTW.give em a chance
to fix
the problem.don't sit there and criticize something that is
allowing you
to get DXCC confirmations in lightning speed compared to 10 years
agotake off your "computer expert" hat and let the league's staff
deal
with the problem..

NF4A





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-
N1DG--Licensed since 1962
EX-WB2DND, A61AD (GUEST OP, QSL MGR), A52DG, /KH9, /BV, /VS6, /4X, /9V
Pilot:  VU7RG, 3Y0X, VK9ML, D68C, VK0IR, K8XP/KH9, 9M0C, ZK1XXP, ZL9CI
Webmaster: VP8ORK, K4M, BS7H, K5K, A52A, VK0IR, 9M0C, ZK1XXP, 
WB2DND/KH9, BQ9P, ZL9CI

QSL Manager:  A61AD, A61AO, A61X, A61AQ, KH7Z
Member:  CWops, ARRL, DDXA, YCCC
2006 Inductee into the CQ DX Hall of Fame
DON GREENBAUM , DUXBURY, MA, USA
AIM:  aurumtel



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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH)]

OK, great idea, and then what?  If we believe that the present IT dept 
isn't being truthful with us, why should we expect that our 'insisting"  
will change anything?
Quite sometime ago I suggested to my director that LoTW be shut down for 
as long as necessary to achieve a long term solution. IMHO, my only 
practical choice is to relax and wait.   Clearly, pitching a bitch here 
hasn't worked, and isn't likely to.


73,
Mike, W5UC





On 12/14/2012 11:59 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


Insist on transparency from ARRL.  I have a problem believing
a solution presented as the only option by the same IT department
that allowed LotW to run out of disk space  and crash.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/14/2012 12:31 PM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote:


On 12/14/2012 11:24 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:



Go to the LOTW site and read carefully. There is a discussion that
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to
arrive in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!


That is if you *believe* the claim that the hardware will fix it.

Joe, please tell me what my other choices are






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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Insist on transparency from ARRL.  I have a problem believing
a solution presented as the only option by the same IT department
that allowed LotW to run out of disk space  and crash.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/14/2012 12:31 PM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote:


On 12/14/2012 11:24 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:



Go to the LOTW site and read carefully. There is a discussion that
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to
arrive in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!


That is if you *believe* the claim that the hardware will fix it.

Joe, please tell me what my other choices are



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Re: Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Ryan Jairam]

That's correct, Ron. You complain about it to your division director,
who will speak on your behalf.

But there's nothing wrong with discussing it here, IMO. Maybe they DO
read things here... I work in web technology for a living, and you
know what? Sometimes I do go searching the web for things that people
are complaining about our sites. Sometimes I even get requests from
others working with me, where people are complaining in various other
places about little things. Social sites such as Twitter and Facebook
are especially useful for this. It's not the preferred method but
sometimes it gathers the right attention, and I think people speak
more freely this way instead of when the complain directly to you.

As for hardware fixing the problem, based on my past experience, I
don't think it will make much difference unless they were running 10
year old hardware, or someone's old recycled PC. I literally shook my
head when they said they thought that replacing spinning iron with
solid state drives would help significantly. I personally think that's
not going to work. But I could be wrong, so let's hope it works.

But from other places I gather that they are doing something on the
software front as well, so we'll see what they do.

73
Ryan, N2RJ

On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Ron Notarius W3WN  wrote:
>
> No Ryan, the League is not a dictatorship.
>
> To answer more generically, and not specifically to you (or just you):
>
> However:  If you want change, and are not happy with the current situation
> with the Logbook server... kvetching about it on this reflector will not
> accomplish anything.  And I think that was, in a roundabout way, Charlie's
> point.
>
> Not to pick on any one individual, but between the various DX & contest
> related email reflectors I'm on, and the various web site forums I
> participate in (I still owe you a drink at the bar), there do seem to be a
> handful of people who are constantly nitpicking at every little detail.
> Again:  I'm not saying that they're wrong to do so (nor am I saying that
> they're right to do so, mind you).  I AM saying that they are kvetching in
> the wrong forum.  They've made their point, and now it becomes piling on.
>
> As I've said before, here and elsewhere:  If you don't like the situation,
> don't post about it on a forum, or send an email to a reflector.  WRITE YOUR
> DIVISION DIRECTOR and tell HIM (or HER).  Write the ARRL President and VP's.
> THEY are the Board of Directors.  THEY set policy.  Not the HQ staff (at
> least on paper).  And the policy they set is supposed to be based on what
> WE, the membership, tell them.
>
> And I think the recent revelation of new hardware being ordered, with
> delivery & installation expected in a few weeks, means that they've heard
> us.  But that doesn't mean we should stop -- just that we need to voice our
> opinions in the right way & to the right people.
>
> But: if we don't tell them... nothing will change.
>
> 73, ron w3wn
>
>
>
> On 12/14/12, Ryan Jairam wrote:
>
>
> Has the league become a dictatorship now?
>
> Last I checked I voted in elections a month ago... We aren't just
> customers of ARRL, we ARE ARRL and if we don't like how things are
> going, we have a right to demand change.
>
> 73
> Ryan, N2RJ
>
> On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Charlie Wooten NF4A 
> wrote:
>>
>> I wish you guys would quitcherbitchin about LOTW.give em a chance to
>> fix
>> the problem.don't sit there and criticize something that is allowing
>> you
>> to get DXCC confirmations in lightning speed compared to 10 years
>> agotake off your "computer expert" hat and let the league's staff deal
>> with the problem..
>>
>> NF4A
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
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>>
>> imail...@njdxa.org
>>
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>>
>> unsubscribe dx-chat
>>
>> or
>>
>> subscribe dx-chat
>>
>> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
>> ---
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ryan A. Jairam
>
>
>
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Re: Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

No Ryan, the League is not a dictatorship.

 
To answer more generically, and not specifically to you (or just you):

 
However: If you want change, and are not happy with the current situation with 
the Logbook server... kvetching about it on this reflector will not accomplish 
anything. And I think that was, in a roundabout way, Charlie's point. 

 
Not to pick on any one individual, but between the various DX & contest related 
email reflectors I'm on, and the various web site forums I participate in (I 
still owe you a drink at the bar), there do seem to be a handful of people who 
are constantly nitpicking at every little detail. Again: I'm not saying that 
they're wrong to do so (nor am I saying that they're right to do so, mind you). 
I AM saying that they are kvetching in the wrong forum. They've made their 
point, and now it becomes piling on.

 
As I've said before, here and elsewhere: If you don't like the situation, don't 
post about it on a forum, or send an email to a reflector. WRITE YOUR DIVISION 
DIRECTOR and tell HIM (or HER). Write the 
ARRL President and VP's. THEY are the Board of Directors. THEY set policy. Not 
the HQ staff (at least on paper). And the policy they set is supposed to be 
based on what WE, the membership, tell them.

 
And I think the recent revelation of new hardware being ordered, with delivery 
& installation expected in a few weeks, means that they've heard us. But that 
doesn't mean we should stop -- just that we need to voice our opinions in the 
right way & to the right people.

 
But: if we don't tell them... nothing will change.

 
73, ron w3wn



On 12/14/12, Ryan Jairam wrote:


Has the league become a dictatorship now?

Last I checked I voted in elections a month ago... We aren't just
customers of ARRL, we ARE ARRL and if we don't like how things are
going, we have a right to demand change.

73
Ryan, N2RJ

On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Charlie Wooten NF4A  wrote:
>
> I wish you guys would quitcherbitchin about LOTW.give em a chance to fix
> the problem.don't sit there and criticize something that is allowing you
> to get DXCC confirmations in lightning speed compared to 10 years
> agotake off your "computer expert" hat and let the league's staff deal
> with the problem..
>
> NF4A
>
>
>
>
> ---
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>
> imail...@njdxa.org
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>
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-- 
Ryan A. Jairam


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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH)]

On 12/14/2012 11:24 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:



Go to the LOTW site and read carefully. There is a discussion that
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to
arrive in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!


That is if you *believe* the claim that the hardware will fix it.

Joe, please tell me what my other choices are





With a very large database, decreases in throughput can just as
easily be due to reaching a tipping point in the database structure
(the point at which the indexing fails).  Since there has been no
diagnostic data reported to support the hardware hypothesis, users
are left in a "trust me" position while the processing delay vaults
past ten days as of approximately 16:30z today - on its way to 20
days by the end of the month.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/14/2012 11:42 AM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote:


Go to the LOTW site and read carefully.  There is a discussion that
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to arrive
in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!  RELAX!!!   Constantly getting
your shorts all in a wad is uncomfortable, and bad for your health.  It
raises your blood pressure.

73,
Mike, W5UC





On 12/14/2012 9:08 AM, Charlie Wooten NF4A wrote:

I wish you guys would quitcherbitchin about LOTW.give em a chance
to fix
the problem.don't sit there and criticize something that is
allowing you
to get DXCC confirmations in lightning speed compared to 10 years
agotake off your "computer expert" hat and let the league's staff
deal
with the problem..

NF4A






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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Go to the LOTW site and read carefully. There is a discussion that
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to
arrive in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!


That is if you *believe* the claim that the hardware will fix it.

With a very large database, decreases in throughput can just as
easily be due to reaching a tipping point in the database structure
(the point at which the indexing fails).  Since there has been no
diagnostic data reported to support the hardware hypothesis, users
are left in a "trust me" position while the processing delay vaults
past ten days as of approximately 16:30z today - on its way to 20
days by the end of the month.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/14/2012 11:42 AM, Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH) wrote:


Go to the LOTW site and read carefully.  There is a discussion that
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to arrive
in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!  RELAX!!!   Constantly getting
your shorts all in a wad is uncomfortable, and bad for your health.  It
raises your blood pressure.

73,
Mike, W5UC





On 12/14/2012 9:08 AM, Charlie Wooten NF4A wrote:

I wish you guys would quitcherbitchin about LOTW.give em a chance
to fix
the problem.don't sit there and criticize something that is
allowing you
to get DXCC confirmations in lightning speed compared to 10 years
agotake off your "computer expert" hat and let the league's staff
deal
with the problem..

NF4A






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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Mike(W5UC) & Kathy (K5MWH)]

Go to the LOTW site and read carefully.  There is a discussion that 
tells, in part, that new hardware is on order, and is expected to arrive 
in 6-8 weeks. THEY ARE WORKING ON IT!!!  RELAX!!!   Constantly getting 
your shorts all in a wad is uncomfortable, and bad for your health.  It 
raises your blood pressure.


73,
Mike, W5UC





On 12/14/2012 9:08 AM, Charlie Wooten NF4A wrote:

I wish you guys would quitcherbitchin about LOTW.give em a chance to fix
the problem.don't sit there and criticize something that is allowing you
to get DXCC confirmations in lightning speed compared to 10 years
agotake off your "computer expert" hat and let the league's staff deal
with the problem..

NF4A






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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Barry,

The reported backlog is simply the time between upload of the last
processed file and the reporting epoch.  It is a backward looking
statistic and not predictive.

If you want predictive, look at the number of QSOs in the queue
- which continues to increase - and apply an value for processing
rate derived from the QSOs/time watching the home page or calculated
based on processing time for some of the uploads in "your activity"
from your own account.

I use a factor of 360 QSOs/minute which makes the predictive delay
for new uploads about 25,000 minutes or 17 days, 6 hours.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/14/2012 9:29 AM, Barry wrote:


Perhaps this is a fluke, but if not, something is seriously wrong with
the system.

I'm looking at the lotw stats at http://www.arrl.org/logbook-queue-status

2012-12-14 11:02:10 28,382 8,932,232 3,874,028,579
2012-12-04 16:13:53
(9d 18h 48m 17s ago)

2012-12-14 10:02:27 28,370 8,960,484 3,884,882,489
2012-12-04 15:58:15
(9d 18h 04m 12s ago)


Note that the number of QSOs to be processed dropped by ~28000 and the
data to be processed dropped by about 10 Meg.  The backlog increased by
44 minutes.  Hmm...

Barry W2UP


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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Ryan Jairam]

Has the league become a dictatorship now?

Last I checked I voted in elections a month ago... We aren't just
customers of ARRL, we ARE ARRL and if we don't like how things are
going, we have a right to demand change.

73
Ryan, N2RJ

On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Charlie Wooten NF4A  wrote:
>
> I wish you guys would quitcherbitchin about LOTW.give em a chance to fix
> the problem.don't sit there and criticize something that is allowing you
> to get DXCC confirmations in lightning speed compared to 10 years
> agotake off your "computer expert" hat and let the league's staff deal
> with the problem..
>
> NF4A
>
>
>
>
> ---
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-- 
Ryan A. Jairam


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RE: [DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Charlie Wooten NF4A]

I wish you guys would quitcherbitchin about LOTW.give em a chance to fix
the problem.don't sit there and criticize something that is allowing you
to get DXCC confirmations in lightning speed compared to 10 years
agotake off your "computer expert" hat and let the league's staff deal
with the problem..

NF4A




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[DX-CHAT] LOTW cannot possibly catch up

[Barry]

Perhaps this is a fluke, but if not, something is seriously wrong with 
the system.


I'm looking at the lotw stats at http://www.arrl.org/logbook-queue-status

2012-12-14 11:02:10 28,382  8,932,232   3,874,028,579   2012-12-04 
16:13:53
(9d 18h 48m 17s ago)

2012-12-14 10:02:27 28,370  8,960,484   3,884,882,489   2012-12-04 
15:58:15
(9d 18h 04m 12s ago)


Note that the number of QSOs to be processed dropped by ~28000 and the 
data to be processed dropped by about 10 Meg.  The backlog increased by 
44 minutes.  Hmm...


Barry W2UP


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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW

[Jim Reisert AD1C]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Jim Abercrombie <4...@prtcnet.com> wrote:

> I have a new computer after the old one crashed and I lost all my data that
> wasn't backed up. Registered for LoTW again and was successful. Sent Don
> Sumner at ARRL HQ an email commending Mike for making the LoTW a pleasant
> experience. Don replied and told me Mike's name, but he said they were still
> having problems with LoTW and were still working on it.

http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-s-logbook-of-the-world-bug-fix-is-on-the-way

http://www.arrl.org/news/update-to-logbook-of-the-world-bug-fix

--
Jim Reisert AD1C, , http://www.ad1c.us


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[DX-CHAT] LOTW

[Barry]

FYI, an upload I made on 4 NOV was just processed this afternoon.
Barry W2UP



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RE: [DX-CHAT] LoTW down?

[Peter W2IRT]

Their server admins ran out of chewing gum and the bailing wire is still on
back-order.


 - pjd

-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Jairam
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:39 AM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] LoTW down?


Looks like LoTW has been down since yesterday, along with online DXCC.

I know they've had a processing delay of up to 24 hours.

I hope everything is OK.

--
Ryan, N2RJ


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[DX-CHAT] LoTW down?

[Ryan Jairam]

Looks like LoTW has been down since yesterday, along with online DXCC.

I know they've had a processing delay of up to 24 hours.

I hope everything is OK.

--
Ryan, N2RJ


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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW

[KE1F Lou]

Well, Jim, I think it is great service by ARRL's computer system.
Also, may be the explanation for high and permanent unemployment. Sorry 
abt my comment.


73  Lou   KE1F

On 5/29/2012 1:28 PM, JIM Abercrombie wrote:

I submitted my LOTW credits on-line Saturday and we had Memorial day yesterday. 
My LOTW were accepted and confirmed when I looked
about 1PM today, Tuesday.
Fast turn around!!
Jim N4JA



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[DX-CHAT] LOTW

[JIM Abercrombie]

I submitted my LOTW credits on-line Saturday and we had Memorial day yesterday. 
My LOTW were accepted and confirmed when I looked 
about 1PM today, Tuesday.
Fast turn around!!
Jim N4JA 



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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW Error ?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> When I received confirmation from LOTW ,  The entity was listed as
> United States of America.  The zone was # 7.

This probably means that K2PLF requested a "certificate" for the United
States or possibly "signed" the TI5/K2LPF logs with a US certificate
and the correct "station location".  I do not know if LotW can remove
the upload/match but you will certainly need to contact K2LPF and him
him get/user the correct certificate.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/29/2012 8:02 AM, Mark Horowitz wrote:



Did anyone work TI5/K2PLF ?   When I received confirmation from LOTW ,  The 
entity was listed as United States of America.  The zone was # 7.
I'll try to email ARRL and let them know.
73,
Mark..K2AU  

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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW Error ?

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

That may be an error in the certificate... that is to say, the wrong entity was 
put in when the certificate was applied for.
So while the error is showing in LotW, this may be more of a case of GIGO
73


On 02/29/12, Mark Horowitz wrote:







Did anyone work TI5/K2PLF ? When I received confirmation from LOTW , The entity 
was listed as United States of America. The zone was # 7. 

I'll try to email ARRL and let them know.

73,

Mark..K2AU



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[DX-CHAT] LOTW Error ?

[Mark Horowitz]

 

Did anyone work TI5/K2PLF ?   When I received confirmation from LOTW ,  The 
entity was listed as United States of America.  The zone was # 7.   
I'll try to email ARRL and let them know.
73,
Mark..K2AU

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Vedr: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW

[ragnar otterstad]

 


 

Oh, heck Rag, that’s easy.
 
Some people don’t have computers in their shack… or even their home.  May be 
hard to believe, but it’s true (I know quite a few right here in my town).  So 
Logbook of the World is not an option for them at all.
 
 
 
Well, then they are probably not in the DXCC programme !  If they are, they 
have the option of asking for a paper-QSL.  I know many people who like to do 
both.
 
 
Some people are old fashioned.  They just plain like having the physical card.  
You can put me in that camp.  There’s something about that physical card that 
an electronic confirmation just doesn’t come anywhere near.
 
Some people just don’t like the ARRL.  “Why” is an entirely different matter 
for another time.  For this group, if the League had anything to do with it, it 
must be bad.
 
Lack of solidarity is regrettable, but that is their problem that should not 
influence anything related to DX-ing
 
 
Some believe (IMHO quite incorrectly) that LotW is, in one form or another, 
“too hard” to use.  Even if you help get them set up, they won’t upload… unless 
you (or someone) is willing to do all the work for them.
 
 
I was in that camp for many years until we had someone lecturing on LOTW in the 
local club!   Teaching old dogs new tricks ...
Now I realise the many advantages and the considerable cost savings afforded 
all concerned.
 
73  MX
 
 
Rag  LA5HE
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Some people don’t want to be bothered with the security.  You will read or hear 
the argument that LotW is more secure than most banks, credit cards, or other 
financial institutions.  Which actually says a lot more about how insecure your 
money and credit might be, but you’ll never convince them of that.
 
Some like the concept of LotW, but are convinced that it’s somehow a 
money-making scheme that will rip off the average amateur.  You can open the 
books and show them otherwise, but they won’t believe you.
 
Some believe that LotW is a concept stolen from eQSL.  And they’ve chosen 
sides… you can tell them all you want about the history behind LotW, and how 
for decades people (I’m one of these too) at the DX Forum at the Dayton 
Hamvention amongst other places, long before the advent of the World Wide Web, 
begging for something like this.  They won’t believe you.  
 
And some people are just ornery, crotchety curmudgeons who don’t like change or 
anything new.  If it was good enough for Hiram Percy Maxim, it was good enough 
for them.  (Don’t look for these guys on PSK-31… or even SSB)
 
Given time, I’m sure we can come up with more reasons. 
 
But most importantly, never forget that Logbook of the World is meant to 
supplement the traditional QSL process, or serve as an alternative to it.  It 
was never meant to outright replace the traditional QSL card in the short term, 
if ever.  
 
Now given time, to say nothing of postage increases & IRC acquisition hassles, 
I’m certain that you will see more and more people accept and use LotW in place 
of the traditional card.  But the QSL card will always have its place.  It will 
be a sad day when it fades away.
 
73, ron w3wn
 



From:kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of ragnar otterstad
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:09 PM
To: DX-Chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW
 
 
 However, at $2.00 per card there is not a lot of
net "profit" in direct cards after printing and postage.  An SASE
to/from an "in country" manager is a net loss to the DXpedition.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV
 
What you say makes perfect sense-.Add the cost for " the deserving "
and it becomes obvious that LOTW is a " Win-Win" situation.
So why some people are so reluctant to use right away it escapes me
.
 
73  Rag  LA5HE
 
 
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Re: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW

[Zack Widup]

I have to comment on a couple of these:

On 12/22/11, Ron Notarius W3WN  wrote:
>
> Oh, heck Rag, that's easy.
>
>
>
> Some people don't have computers in their shack. or even their home.  May be
> hard to believe, but it's true (I know quite a few right here in my town).
> So Logbook of the World is not an option for them at all.
>
> Some people just don't like the ARRL.  "Why" is an entirely different matter
> for another time.  For this group, if the League had anything to do with it,
> it must be bad.
>

Are these people likely to be participating in DXCC? I know some
ARRL-haters who say they do not and will not participate in ARRL
awards programs.

>
> Some people don't want to be bothered with the security.  You will read or
> hear the argument that LotW is more secure than most banks, credit cards, or
> other financial institutions.  Which actually says a lot more about how
> insecure your money and credit might be, but you'll never convince them of
> that.
>

I've had credit card info hijacked at least once a year for the last 5
years or so (a different card each time). I don't know where the
security leaks are but they are obviously there. I just had it happen
with a Discover card last week. That one is a puzzler because I
haven't even used the card in two years. The only card on that account
that exists resides in my wallet which never leaves my sight. And it's
not one of those cards that can be read from a distance
electronically.

I just got my credentials for LOTW; now I need to find the time to
organize my logs and upload them! I am also one of the people who
still likes paper cards. For some DXpeditions I'll probably want a
paper card AND LOTW confirmation.

73, Zack W9SZ


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RE: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Oh, heck Rag, that's easy.

 

Some people don't have computers in their shack. or even their home.  May be
hard to believe, but it's true (I know quite a few right here in my town).
So Logbook of the World is not an option for them at all.

 

Some people are old fashioned.  They just plain like having the physical
card.  You can put me in that camp.  There's something about that physical
card that an electronic confirmation just doesn't come anywhere near.

 

Some people just don't like the ARRL.  "Why" is an entirely different matter
for another time.  For this group, if the League had anything to do with it,
it must be bad.

 

Some believe (IMHO quite incorrectly) that LotW is, in one form or another,
"too hard" to use.  Even if you help get them set up, they won't upload.
unless you (or someone) is willing to do all the work for them.

 

Some people don't want to be bothered with the security.  You will read or
hear the argument that LotW is more secure than most banks, credit cards, or
other financial institutions.  Which actually says a lot more about how
insecure your money and credit might be, but you'll never convince them of
that.

 

Some like the concept of LotW, but are convinced that it's somehow a
money-making scheme that will rip off the average amateur.  You can open the
books and show them otherwise, but they won't believe you.

 

Some believe that LotW is a concept stolen from eQSL.  And they've chosen
sides. you can tell them all you want about the history behind LotW, and how
for decades people (I'm one of these too) at the DX Forum at the Dayton
Hamvention amongst other places, long before the advent of the World Wide
Web, begging for something like this.  They won't believe you.  

 

And some people are just ornery, crotchety curmudgeons who don't like change
or anything new.  If it was good enough for Hiram Percy Maxim, it was good
enough for them.  (Don't look for these guys on PSK-31. or even SSB)

 

Given time, I'm sure we can come up with more reasons. 

 

But most importantly, never forget that Logbook of the World is meant to
supplement the traditional QSL process, or serve as an alternative to it.
It was never meant to outright replace the traditional QSL card in the short
term, if ever.  

 

Now given time, to say nothing of postage increases & IRC acquisition
hassles, I'm certain that you will see more and more people accept and use
LotW in place of the traditional card.  But the QSL card will always have
its place.  It will be a sad day when it fades away.

 

73, ron w3wn

 

  _  

From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of ragnar otterstad
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:09 PM
To: DX-Chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW

 

 

 However, at $2.00 per card there is not a lot of
net "profit" in direct cards after printing and postage.  An SASE
to/from an "in country" manager is a net loss to the DXpedition.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV

 

What you say makes perfect sense-.Add the cost for " the deserving "

and it becomes obvious that LOTW is a " Win-Win" situation.

So why some people are so reluctant to use right away it escapes me

.

 

73  Rag  LA5HE

 

 


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[DX-CHAT] -LOTW

[ragnar otterstad]

 


 However, at $2.00 per card there is not a lot of
net "profit" in direct cards after printing and postage.  An SASE
to/from an "in country" manager is a net loss to the DXpedition.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV

What you say makes perfect sense-.Add the cost for " the deserving "
and it becomes obvious that LOTW is a " Win-Win" situation.
So why some people are so reluctant to use right away it escapes me
.
 
73  Rag  LA5HE

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RE: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW (Long)

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

I think a few general comments on use of Logbook of the World are in order. Of course, first and foremost, this is my opinion only, YMMV. And by no means is this a criticism of LotW.  I am very much in favor of the entire concept.  If I have any gripe at all, it would be more of a lament that more resources are not devoted towards it, not just in terms of maintaining the code, the databases, and the server itself... but towards improving and expanding the capabilities of the system.  But that's not my purpose today. I think that this entire discussion, with regards to STØR in particular, has overlooked one very important point: Just because you CAN do something does not always mean you SHOULD. Yes, the capability to upload almost instantly is there, and it's great.  But it's one thing for you or I as individuals to do this.  We keep our logs, we know our logs, we know right away what's legit and what isn't (or at least I do, I hope you do to!)  Things get a mite more complicated when it comes to multi-op logs, especially from a major, multioperator, multi-national DXpedition anywhere near this scope.  Station and mode logs have to be merged, some processing and cross checking has to be done, in some cases some issues with language related discrepancies (starting with American English vs. British English!) might need resolved.  Problems noted with regards to posted on-line "on demand" logs may need addressed as well. This has to be done sooner or later; better to do it first and get it right while things are still "fresh" in everyone's mind.  So there's one delay. Second, I think we get a little spoiled.  Yes, some groups have their act together better than others.  Some plan better or more thoroughly.  Or, more lilkely, some groups have different priorities... maybe Logbook (or eQSL or similar services) is not a high priority to them, other things are being taken care of first, before, during  and/or after the trip.  So there's another reason why there may be a delay between the time a trip ends and the logs get posted. Most importantly... last but certainly not least... appearances to the contrary, most (the vast majority by far) of the DXpedition operators are not professionals.  They don't play radio for a living.  Yes, I know, many are now retired and have money to burn and time to devote.  But many have families and jobs and other obligations.  Sure, they just carved out 2 weeks to a month or more to operate from Lower Slobovia for your pleasure... and that includes transport back and forth... now they have to return to real life.  No doubt they have things to catch up on.  And many are probably a little tired and weary from days or weeks of operating, and need a chance to take a breath, recharge, and do something else.   Big deal, then let the QSL manager do it, you think?  Sometimes the QSL manager (or the leader of the QSL processing group) is a member of the team that took the trip; see paragraph above.  And they still need time to process the logs, get the cards printed, and all that. So what's the rush?  Why the demands to get cards turned around so quickly, or to get the logs posted? In no particular order:  Impatience and ego.  A combination of "I need it NOW" and "I need to brag about it NOW"  Yeah, OK, I know that the ARRL's deadline for the annual status checks is the end of the year.  So it's missed.  So what?   So the end of the year snapshot shows you 1 shy of HR, or 1 shy of the top.  So what?  You think you're the only one?  You think you're being singled out?  On the contrary; it's not just you, it's hundreds, maybe thousands, all in the same boat, waiting for the elusive confirmation. Does your ego demand that YOU must be taken care of ahead of everyone else?  [If so, you may need professional assistance in dealing with this.] What is the worse case?  You get your confirmation next year instead of next week.  But you still get it.   OK, OK, I know that there have been a few indiviuals, and a few groups, that have stated that they are holding back on LotW until all of the direct cards are issued (to be "fair"), or are giving their donors a "perk" by uploading them first.  I'm not going to defend this as "right", nor am I going to defend anyone (individual or group) who holds up ANY confirmation process (paper or electronic) to help pay the bills.  Too many people go on DXpeditions for the sake of their egos.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing (after all, otherwise they might not go at all!), but let's keep this in perspective:  They're going because they WANT to go.  Fine.  Just don't expect ME to pay to feed YOUR ego.  If you can't afford to go, then don't go. Yes, let me say that again:  If you can't afford to go, then don't go.  Don't demand "donations" to pay for your trip... or your radio operating while on vacation.  And don't hold confirmations up as a hostage until you get the loot.  That's called "blackmail" and I do believe it's illegal. Sure.  Some places are rare b

Re: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

One could argue that LotW is the electronic equivalent of a bureau card
but it does not require printing, handling, or shipping.  Since LotW
requires no processing ... LotW should reasonably be available within
six weeks or so after the end of the DXpedition to allow the team to
return home and submit the necessary paperwork for approval of the
operation and LotW "certificate".

The extent to which one agrees with the "upload quickly" camp depends
on the degree to which one believes that QSLing is a "profit center"
for the DXpedition.  However, at $2.00 per card there is not a lot of
net "profit" in direct cards after printing and postage.  An SASE
to/from an "in country" manager is a net loss to the DXpedition.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 12/22/2011 10:23 AM, Boris Knezović wrote:


Mike,

Some people want LoTW confirmations immediately after DXpedition is over 
without any contribution. I guess their next move should be requesting free 
LoTW confirmations at ARRL.

73's Boris E73Y


-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org on behalf of Mike(W5UC)
Sent: čet 22.12.2011 13:39
To: wn3...@verizon.net
Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW


On 12/21/2011 5:56 PM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote:


Oh yes Rag, you've made more than a few points.  But let's stick to
the important one...

I am positive that the ST0R logs will be on Logbook of the World at
some point.  I'm not going to spend time combing their web site to
find out when they plan to do that.  The group has done several other
trips in the past, including E4X Palestine, that have been uploaded in
the past... why would they change now?



Good morning Ron&  all:

For what it's worth, I'm not sure how the ST0R folks are making the
decisions about uploading to LOTW, but I was quite late in requesting a
card.  I used the method on their web site that sent the minimum $ via
Pay Pal.  Very quickly I received a paper QSL, and somewhere in the same
time frame a confirmation showed up in my LOTW account.  Yesterday I
sent for it and several other LOTW credits, and zip-pop, it was done.
No Sweat, new one confirmed.

73,
Mike, W5UC


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RE: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW

[Boris Knezović]

 
Mike,

Some people want LoTW confirmations immediately after DXpedition is over 
without any contribution. I guess their next move should be requesting free 
LoTW confirmations at ARRL.

73's Boris E73Y


-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org on behalf of Mike(W5UC)
Sent: čet 22.12.2011 13:39
To: wn3...@verizon.net
Cc: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW
 

On 12/21/2011 5:56 PM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote:
>
> Oh yes Rag, you've made more than a few points.  But let's stick to 
> the important one...
>
> I am positive that the ST0R logs will be on Logbook of the World at 
> some point.  I'm not going to spend time combing their web site to 
> find out when they plan to do that.  The group has done several other 
> trips in the past, including E4X Palestine, that have been uploaded in 
> the past... why would they change now?
>

Good morning Ron & all:

For what it's worth, I'm not sure how the ST0R folks are making the 
decisions about uploading to LOTW, but I was quite late in requesting a 
card.  I used the method on their web site that sent the minimum $ via 
Pay Pal.  Very quickly I received a paper QSL, and somewhere in the same 
time frame a confirmation showed up in my LOTW account.  Yesterday I 
sent for it and several other LOTW credits, and zip-pop, it was done.  
No Sweat, new one confirmed.

73,
Mike, W5UC


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Re: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW

[Mike(W5UC)]

On 12/21/2011 5:56 PM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote:


Oh yes Rag, you've made more than a few points.  But let's stick to 
the important one...


I am positive that the ST0R logs will be on Logbook of the World at 
some point.  I'm not going to spend time combing their web site to 
find out when they plan to do that.  The group has done several other 
trips in the past, including E4X Palestine, that have been uploaded in 
the past... why would they change now?




Good morning Ron & all:

For what it's worth, I'm not sure how the ST0R folks are making the 
decisions about uploading to LOTW, but I was quite late in requesting a 
card.  I used the method on their web site that sent the minimum $ via 
Pay Pal.  Very quickly I received a paper QSL, and somewhere in the same 
time frame a confirmation showed up in my LOTW account.  Yesterday I 
sent for it and several other LOTW credits, and zip-pop, it was done.  
No Sweat, new one confirmed.


73,
Mike, W5UC


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[DX-CHAT] LOTW praise

[ragnar otterstad]

 
>From another reflector :
 Meldingstekst
Yesterday, having got E51MAN LOTW confirmations, I submitted a LOTW-only
DXCC update, the first since Oct 2010.
This morning my LOTW totals have been updated.
Fantastic, well done to NC1L & team.

-- 
73
Alan 5B4AHJ-5B50J-P3J



N7OU is to be commended for his Pacific dxpeditions over the past couple of 
years !
Excellent operator and timely LOTW update !   Prime example of high standard !

73  rag  la5he

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RE: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Oh yes Rag, you've made more than a few points.  But let's stick to the
important one.

 

I am positive that the ST0R logs will be on Logbook of the World at some
point.  I'm not going to spend time combing their web site to find out when
they plan to do that.  The group has done several other trips in the past,
including E4X Palestine, that have been uploaded in the past. why would they
change now?

 

Nor do I think they are deliberately "delaying" solely to rake in money,
despite allegations from you to the contrary.  I base this again on their
past history. my E4X QSO's were confirmed on LotW before I sent for my QSL
card.  If they were waiting for a payoff, it would have been a long time
before my LotW confirmation arrived.

 

So why is it taking so long?  As I told you directly, you'll get the best
answer by asking them directly.  But I suspect they're busy. merging logs,
checking for bad or missing information, putting things away, sorting
incoming requests, and so forth.  And that is in ADDITION to them living
their lives, working, family, other operating, etc.

 

Therefore:  Cut them some slack.  

 

I'm sure you're eager for your confirmations to come, since it's a "new
one," but they will come.

 

Yes. T32C uploaded within a few weeks.  So have other groups.  Others have
taken months, some years.  Others have not uploaded at all.  Are you going
to try and "pressure" everyone else into giving you near- or
relative-instant gratification?

 

Therefore:  trying to "pressure" them into moving faster, solely because YOU
are impatient, is not the answer.  And using this reflector to try and stir
up "pressure" is pointless. and against the spirit (if not the precise
letter) of the rules of this reflector.

 

This reflector is meant for discussion of news and events (the announcement
of that news belongs on the companion DX NEWS reflector), and it is meant to
do so in a calm, rational, friendly matter.  It is NOT meant to pressure,
coerce, or otherwise hassle DX operators or those who volunteer their time
to operate and/or confirm DXpeditions.

 

Your earlier criticism of the ST0R group over your unhappiness over their
confirmation policies with regard to Logbook of the World came dangerously
close to crossing the line.  I am not putting on my Administrator hat. yet.
I am simply cautioning you to tone it down and/or knock it off.  

 

Your position has been noted.  Now, if you can't continue a calm discussion
without either pressure or gloating, perchance you should take your comments
elsewhere.

 

73, ron w3wn

 

 

 

  _  

From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of ragnar otterstad
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:20 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] -LOTW

 

 

I have made my point. Others have made the same point. Pressure is building.
Note that T32C uploaded to LoTW within six weeks, not months!

 

73  rag  la5he

 

http://tinyurl.com/c6g6g4k






http://de.visittelemark.com/
or 
http://www.telemarkskanalen.no/nor/Kanalen
where we are located "riverside".

 

"Ubi Morsum verba tacent"


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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?

[AE5B]

 
It must be coming and going because I have not been been able to log on all day
long. 

AE5B


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RE: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Nah.  Never give up; never surrender.

I tried again a couple of minutes ago, and got in.  

73

-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Jairam
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 10:26 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?


>From the error message it looks like they may be having database issues.

I think I will just call it a night and upload tomorrow. Hopefully by
then it will be fixed.

73

--
Ryan N2RJ via iPhone

On Nov 24, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Ron Notarius W3WN  wrote:

>
> I was logged in to the server earlier this morning without a problem.
>
> But I've seen the same thing from time to time.  Not usually a big deal.
> Server may have hiccupped, there may be too many users logged in, there
> could be an issue at the ISP.
>
> However, considering today's a holiday, it may not get attention as fast
as
> it normally would.
>
> Not to worry, though.
>
> 73, ron w3wn
>
> -Original Message-
> From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of
> d...@optonline.net
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 2:03 PM
> To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
> Subject: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?
>
>
> Anyone else getting a fatal error message from the Logbook of the World
> server?
>
> I keep getting the following response:
>
> "Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol error):
> General database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol
> error)]"
>
> This is happening in a web browser and also from within DXLab on another
> computer.  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> Mike, K2CD
>
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list.  Please send a message to
>
> imail...@njdxa.org
>
> In the message body put either
>
> unsubscribe dx-chat
>
> or
>
> subscribe dx-chat
>
> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
> ---
>
>
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list.  Please send a message to
>
> imail...@njdxa.org
>
> In the message body put either
>
> unsubscribe dx-chat
>
> or
>
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>
> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?

[Elsie & Gerry]

 

Working fine here.

73,
Gerry VE6LB/VA6XDX
DXCC, VUCC, WAS Card Checker-Southern Alberta
VE/VA6 QSL Bureau Team
(403) 251-0384
ve...@telus.net
http://www.qsl.net/ve6lb/

From: Ryan Jairam 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:25 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org 
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?


>From the error message it looks like they may be having database issues.

I think I will just call it a night and upload tomorrow. Hopefully by
then it will be fixed.

73

--
Ryan N2RJ via iPhone

On Nov 24, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Ron Notarius W3WN  wrote:

>
> I was logged in to the server earlier this morning without a problem.
>
> But I've seen the same thing from time to time.  Not usually a big deal.
> Server may have hiccupped, there may be too many users logged in, there
> could be an issue at the ISP.
>
> However, considering today's a holiday, it may not get attention as fast as
> it normally would.
>
> Not to worry, though.
>
> 73, ron w3wn
>
> -Original Message-
> From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of
> d...@optonline.net
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 2:03 PM
> To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
> Subject: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?
>
>
> Anyone else getting a fatal error message from the Logbook of the World
> server?
>
> I keep getting the following response:
>
> "Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol error):
> General database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol
> error)]"
>
> This is happening in a web browser and also from within DXLab on another
> computer.  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> Mike, K2CD
>
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list.  Please send a message to
>
> imail...@njdxa.org
>
> In the message body put either
>
> unsubscribe dx-chat
>
> or
>
> subscribe dx-chat
>
> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
> ---
>
>
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list.  Please send a message to
>
> imail...@njdxa.org
>
> In the message body put either
>
> unsubscribe dx-chat
>
> or
>
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>
> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
> ---
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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?

[Ryan Jairam]

>From the error message it looks like they may be having database issues.

I think I will just call it a night and upload tomorrow. Hopefully by
then it will be fixed.

73

--
Ryan N2RJ via iPhone

On Nov 24, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Ron Notarius W3WN  wrote:

>
> I was logged in to the server earlier this morning without a problem.
>
> But I've seen the same thing from time to time.  Not usually a big deal.
> Server may have hiccupped, there may be too many users logged in, there
> could be an issue at the ISP.
>
> However, considering today's a holiday, it may not get attention as fast as
> it normally would.
>
> Not to worry, though.
>
> 73, ron w3wn
>
> -Original Message-
> From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of
> d...@optonline.net
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 2:03 PM
> To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
> Subject: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?
>
>
> Anyone else getting a fatal error message from the Logbook of the World
> server?
>
> I keep getting the following response:
>
> "Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol error):
> General database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol
> error)]"
>
> This is happening in a web browser and also from within DXLab on another
> computer.  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> Mike, K2CD
>
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list.  Please send a message to
>
> imail...@njdxa.org
>
> In the message body put either
>
> unsubscribe dx-chat
>
> or
>
> subscribe dx-chat
>
> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
> ---
>
>
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list.  Please send a message to
>
> imail...@njdxa.org
>
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>
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>
> or
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> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
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RE: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Just got home from tryptophan overload at the in-laws.

The good news is that LotW appears to be up again...

The bad news?  A "too many users" message.  But that will clear itself up in
time.

-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Beaudet
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 7:24 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?


Ditto here. I was logged in about 6AM, no problem. 
Just logged in again a few minutes ago at 00:20 UTC with no trouble. 
Let's hope it was just a case of short term overload. 

73, Bob W1YRC


-Original Message- 
From: Ron Notarius W3WN 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 2:44 PM 
To: d...@optonline.net ; dx-chat@njdxa.org 
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down? 


I was logged in to the server earlier this morning without a problem.

But I've seen the same thing from time to time.  Not usually a big deal.
Server may have hiccupped, there may be too many users logged in, there
could be an issue at the ISP.

However, considering today's a holiday, it may not get attention as fast as
it normally would.

Not to worry, though.

73, ron w3wn

-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of
d...@optonline.net
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 2:03 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?


Anyone else getting a fatal error message from the Logbook of the World 
server?

I keep getting the following response:

"Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol error): 
General database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol 
error)]"

This is happening in a web browser and also from within DXLab on another 
computer.  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!

Mike, K2CD


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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?

[Benny Owens]

I CAN NOT CONNECT TO THE LOTW SERVER TO BEGIN LOGIN.

73
BENNY K5KV

On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 6:24 PM, Bob Beaudet  wrote:

>
> Ditto here. I was logged in about 6AM, no problem. Just logged in again a
> few minutes ago at 00:20 UTC with no trouble. Let's hope it was just a case
> of short term overload.
> 73, Bob W1YRC
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Ron Notarius W3WN Sent: Thursday,
> November 24, 2011 2:44 PM To: d...@optonline.net ; dx-chat@njdxa.orgSubject: 
> RE: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?
>
> I was logged in to the server earlier this morning without a problem.
>
> But I've seen the same thing from time to time.  Not usually a big deal.
> Server may have hiccupped, there may be too many users logged in, there
> could be an issue at the ISP.
>
> However, considering today's a holiday, it may not get attention as fast as
> it normally would.
>
> Not to worry, though.
>
> 73, ron w3wn
>
> -Original Message-
> From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of
> d...@optonline.net
> Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 2:03 PM
> To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
> Subject: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?
>
>
> Anyone else getting a fatal error message from the Logbook of the World
> server?
>
> I keep getting the following response:
>
> "Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol error): General
> database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol error)]"
>
> This is happening in a web browser and also from within DXLab on another
> computer.  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!
>
> Mike, K2CD
>
>
> --**-
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>
> imail...@njdxa.org
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>
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>
>
>
> --**-
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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?

[Bob Beaudet]

Ditto here. I was logged in about 6AM, no problem. 
Just logged in again a few minutes ago at 00:20 UTC with no trouble. 
Let's hope it was just a case of short term overload. 


73, Bob W1YRC


-Original Message- 
From: Ron Notarius W3WN 
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 2:44 PM 
To: d...@optonline.net ; dx-chat@njdxa.org 
Subject: RE: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down? 



I was logged in to the server earlier this morning without a problem.

But I've seen the same thing from time to time.  Not usually a big deal.
Server may have hiccupped, there may be too many users logged in, there
could be an issue at the ISP.

However, considering today's a holiday, it may not get attention as fast as
it normally would.

Not to worry, though.

73, ron w3wn

-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of
d...@optonline.net
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 2:03 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?


Anyone else getting a fatal error message from the Logbook of the World 
server?


I keep getting the following response:

"Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol error): 
General database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol 
error)]"


This is happening in a web browser and also from within DXLab on another 
computer.  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!


Mike, K2CD


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RE: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

I was logged in to the server earlier this morning without a problem.

But I've seen the same thing from time to time.  Not usually a big deal.
Server may have hiccupped, there may be too many users logged in, there
could be an issue at the ISP.

However, considering today's a holiday, it may not get attention as fast as
it normally would.

Not to worry, though.

73, ron w3wn

-Original Message-
From: kf...@njdxa.org [mailto:kf...@njdxa.org] On Behalf Of
d...@optonline.net
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 2:03 PM
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?


Anyone else getting a fatal error message from the Logbook of the World 
server?

I keep getting the following response:

"Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol error): 
General database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol 
error)]"

This is happening in a web browser and also from within DXLab on another 
computer.  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!

Mike, K2CD


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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?

[Gary]

Happens frequently.. will be back (I get same message) 73, Gary K7ZD

On 11/24/2011 12:03 PM, d...@optonline.net wrote:


Anyone else getting a fatal error message from the Logbook of the 
World server?


I keep getting the following response:

"Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol error): 
General database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol 
error)]"


This is happening in a web browser and also from within DXLab on 
another computer.  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!


Mike, K2CD


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[DX-CHAT] LoTW Servers Down?

[d...@optonline.net]

Anyone else getting a fatal error message from the Logbook of the World 
server?


I keep getting the following response:

"Fatal error: initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol error): 
General database error [initializeLOTWDB: -709 - CONNECT: (protocol 
error)]"


This is happening in a web browser and also from within DXLab on another 
computer.  Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!


Mike, K2CD


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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW User's List

[Jim Reisert AD1C]

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 2:25 PM,   wrote:

> My thanks to the many who responded to my question of a site that lists LOTW
> user's. HB9BZA seems to be pretty universal and it should satisfy my needs.
> Thanks again and a Merry Xmas to all.

And the actual link is..

http://www.hb9bza.net/lotw/

-- 
Jim Reisert AD1C, , http://www.ad1c.us


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[DX-CHAT] LOTW User's List

[jcowens1]

 



My thanks to the many who responded to my question of a site that lists LOTW 
user's. HB9BZA seems to be pretty universal and it should satisfy my needs. 
Thanks again and a Merry Xmas to all. 



John Owens  -  N7TK

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[DX-CHAT] LOTW Participants

[jcowens1]

 


I have seen references in the past to websites that list hams (by call sign) 
that participate in LOTW (submit their logs). If you know of such a place, 
could you please provide me with the link?? 



John Owens  -   N7TK 






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[DX-CHAT] LOTW credits

[Jim Abercrombie]

I am at the top of the honor roll on phone and mixed.  I thought it was high 
time I became a real dx-er and work them on CW.  I have worked all the dx I 
have been able to find who use LOTW and I have worked well over 100.  I have 93 
LOTW CW contacts confirmed and 6 QSL's in the box for a total of 99 confirmed.  
All you LOTW users need to upload your logs so I can get my first CW DXCC.  I 
don't even have Canada confirmed on CW and I worked 3 VA/VE stations who use 
LOTW during the RAC test a week ago. Looks like one of you would upload a log.. 
 I even worked my first G that weekend and he hasn't uploaded his log.   I can 
see all the LOTW users on the VE7CC cluster, because the LOTW users have a + 
sign in front of the call.  Come on guys, upload those logs. I am not going to 
send you any greenstamps, because that's why I became a LOTW user.
Thanks in advance,
Jim N4JA

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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW

[Tom Wylie]

Thanks to all who responded - I now have the info I require - its just 
an age thing!!!


73 to all

Tom
GM4FDM

Gerry Hohn wrote:


Tom,

Try: http://www.rickmurphy.net/lotwquery.htm

Gerry VE6LB/VA6XDX
DXCC Field Checker-Southern Alberta
VE/VA6 QSL Bureau Team
(403) 251-0384
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.qsl.net/ve6lb/


- Original Message - From: "Tom Wylie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "DX-CHAT" 
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 1:22 PM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] LOTW




Sometime back somebody posted a message about how to retrieve logs 
from LOTW by sending them

some form of request - I cant remember...

Anybody here have any info?

Tom
GM4FDM


--
So I met the bloke who invented crosswords today. I can't remember his
name, it's P something T something R.



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[DX-CHAT] LOTW

[Tom Wylie]

Sometime back somebody posted a message about how to retrieve logs from 
LOTW by sending them

some form of request - I cant remember...

Anybody here have any info?

Tom
GM4FDM


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[DX-CHAT] LOTW problem solved Maybe!

[Jim Abercrombie]

I emailed my LOTW log file to HB4BZA.  I hope it solves the problem of not 
being listed.
Jim N4JA

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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW

[jcowens1]

Jim:

I am pretty sure that VE7CC does not maintain the list, and relys on the HB9BZA 
list as the source. I think the VE7CC website mentions this down in the notes. 
I wrote HB9BZA about not being on his list with my new call, even though my log 
for that call has been in LOTW for quite a while. He did respond, and added me 
under the new call sign. I am equally sure that HB9BZA relies on the LOTW site 
for his list, and it was/is not up to date with my new call. I would expect 
them to be current on my call. 

John Owens (N7TK, Ex N7SEJ)

-- Original message -- 
From: "Jim Abercrombie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

On the VE7CC network, if you are a member of LOTW, there is a plus sign in 
front of your call.  Also, there is a  LOTW checker that says "yes" or "no" to 
show if you are a member. I have emailed VE7CC and the HB9 who keeps the list, 
but neiher have answered as to why I am not listed and have ignored my emails.  
VE7CC and his network has an LOTW update every couple of days, but I'm not 
showing up.  Does anyone know how to get me listed?
Jim N4JA

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[DX-CHAT] LOTW

[Jim Abercrombie]

On the VE7CC network, if you are a member of LOTW, there is a plus sign in 
front of your call.  Also, there is a  LOTW checker that says "yes" or "no" to 
show if you are a member. I have emailed VE7CC and the HB9 who keeps the list, 
but neiher have answered as to why I am not listed and have ignored my emails.  
VE7CC and his network has an LOTW update every couple of days, but I'm not 
showing up.  Does anyone know how to get me listed?
Jim N4JA

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[DX-CHAT] LoTW

[lmecseri -KE1F]

What a surprise to find QSOs with :

TJ3FR
9Q1EK
J5UTM
V5/DJ4SO
VK9DNX

on my LoTW account waiting to be credited.

I really wish more stations would use LoTW.

I admit it is a pain to use it. Perhaps level of security is a over 
kill, but.LoTW is a very easy way to get credit for contacts..


73s

Lou KE1F


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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW

[Osten B Magnusson]

I have been thinking (it happens...) and I am going to upload
the 9Q1EK and 9Q1TB logs to LoTW. I have there before the
logs for my own calls and also ZK1EQL and CU2/SM7EQL.

There is a reason (beside "busted calls" which often happens
due to the QRN in Kinshasa): I have worked almost all the DX
there is to work, and as my XYL for 40 years passed away in
cancer October 28th 2008 I wanted to have something to keep
me occupied.

However I don't want to be as stubborn as Mr Harpole, and
therefore the logs will be on LoTW as soon as the administrator
has sent me the certificate keys.

IF you don't find your call in the LoTW, please e-mail me as
I can very well be a "busted call".

All the best to all of you and my apologies to those on LoTW who
have already spent money for the cards  -  should you however
want paper QSL's I will of course continue with those.

73/DX de Osten  SM5DQC[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Harpole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 5:13 PM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] just had to answr



I should not, but I just have to answer


From: Art RX9TX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re[2]: [DX-CHAT] Postal thieves
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:57:20 +0600

 Hello Charles,

CH> I  have  a  USA mail drop... my son receives my mail that comes to
CH> his   and   my  USA  address,  4301  Jenkins  Dr,  Plano,  and  he
CH> periodically  sends my mail to me Last month he spent $148 usd
CH> to send me a slim FedEx box

So  is  that  why  you want _us_ to spend that money on that expensive
services, "...try Registered Mail or, if desperate, use FedEx, UPS, or
DHL"?
YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO DO.  I AM SIMPLY TRYING TO CONVEY FACTS TO YOU RE QSLING.  IF YOU DISLIKE MY WAYS, IGNORE 
ME, PLEASE.


CH> LogBook Of The World why I do not use this great service:
CH> 1.  I log onto old fashioned paper.

Just ask on the net, I bet you will find someone who is ready to enter
your logs to the computer. BTW your VU4 logs, are they paper logs?

YES.


CH> 2.  I choose to do other much more interesting things than data entry.

See item 1.

CH> 3.  I find LBOTW very difficult to use.  And I have tried, and had help,
CH> still failed to get it.

Even  I can do that for you if you send me your logs in ADIF and claim
me to be your "LoTW-manager" here on the DX-Reflector.
I ACCEPT YOUR OFFER OF HELP, IF IT DOES NOT VIOLATE ANY CUSTOMARY MODES OF QSLing AND VERIFICATION.  I BET SEVERAL 
OPINIONS ARISE ON THIS ITEMBUT, ART, PSE SEE MY SEPARATE MESSAGE TO U RE THIS ITEM.  BTW, WHAT IS "ADIF"? NOT KIDDING.



CH> 4.  Upload times are long and expensive.

Well, it costs nothing in most parts of the world.

OK, I GUESS THE 5,000+ BAHT I SPEND MONTHLY FOR CONNECTION IS A FICTIONAL THING?


CH> 5.  I am just set in my ways, a product of a maturing factor.

Not  a  reason to make us spend our money on DHL or postal expenses of
any kind.
ONCE AGAIN, I SAY-- IF YOU DISLIKE ME AND MY METHODS, JUST IGNORE ME... THERE IS A DELETE BUTTON, THERE IS YOUR CHOICE 
NEVER TO CONTACT ME BY MAIL, ETC ETC  NO GUNS TO UR HEAD.  AND I SAY THIS TO ALL THE FLAMERS ON THE REFLECTOR:  WHEN U 
SEE MY NAME ON A MESSAGE, JUST DELETE IT AND SAVE UR BLOOD PRESSURE RISE.


I CLAIM THE RIGHT TO BE ME AND TO BE SET IN MY WAYS... AS IT APPEARS SO DO U.



CH> I am going to investigate the PayPal option, but it really smacks of
CH> commerce.

Sure it does.

--
 73...Art RX9TX

 http://rx9tx.qrz.ru

BYE BYE AND 73, CHARLES HS0ZCW

_
Now you can see trouble…before he arrives 
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507



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[DX-CHAT] LoTW question/comment

[Carl1]

Does anyone know how long it takes for the credit to appear after applying via 
LoTW ?

Also it appears the ARRL has waived the 2nd submission fee for the same year if 
by LoTW.

Thanks ARRL/DXCC Desk !

73,
Carl  K8AV




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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW

[Garth]

I upload to LoTW just this morning. Seems OK now also.

GL,
Garth, KW4MM


- Original Message - 
From: "nick cominos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 4:44 PM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] LoTW


Anyone getting the "Internal Server Error" when uploading to the site? 
I've been getting this all weekend.

vy 73,
Nick W9UM






"When the people fear the government it's called tyranny, when the 
government fears the people it's called freedom."

Thomas Paine


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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW

[Peter Dougherty]

At 05:44 PM 06/03/2007, nick cominos wrote:
Anyone getting the "Internal Server Error" when uploading to the 
site?  I've been getting this all weekend.


Dunno about that, but I've been trying to e-mail someone with an 
arrl.org (i.e. staff) address and it's bounced all day today (was 
working FB yesterday). I uploaded 2 days ago, so haven't tried since.




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 




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[DX-CHAT] LoTW

[nick cominos]

Anyone getting the "Internal Server Error" when uploading to the site?  I've 
been getting this all weekend.

vy 73,
Nick W9UM






"When the people fear the government it's called tyranny, when the 
government fears the people it's called freedom."
Thomas Paine 




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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW

[john]

Disk space is amazingly cheap. You can store a ton of text info in a very 
affordable disk.


John K5MO

PS: Long live paper QSLs...


At 02:17 AM 4/28/2007, Lee Wical wrote:


I don't know how ARRL can afford LoTW and its present and furure storage.
It will turn out, money wise, to be an albatross around the Leagues 
neck$
I'm told all monies go into the operating fund. Is this what the 
membership wants? I don't think so.

Wait an see.
Lee



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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW

[Brian Moran]

I'm not sure that LOTW would have any issues with storage, or hosting.

Last I checked, there were 128 million contacts in their database. Let's say 
that each contact took up 2000 characters of storage. That works out to about 
256 gigabytes of storage; Hard disks that hold that are about $90 at Fry's.  A 
simplistic  example for sure, since  that doesn't include powering that hard 
drive, keeping it on the internet, etc. 

A better estimate is what it would take to host a 1000 gigabyte (let's be 
conservative) database, 24x7.  Some companies are offering that for about $500 
a month. Probably not enterprise level. So just pick a multiplier -- 10 times 
that?

What's the savings of the postage on confirmations, alone? 

I see that LOTW is removing a lot of 'friction' in the QSLing process, which is 
a good thing.  

Those concerned about losing a revenue source in their qsl request tithing 
should  ask for an 'upload service fee' to submit a matching qsl record to 
LOTW.  Better yet, take those requests and service fees over the internet -- 
put that $.41 and up postage fee towards DXpeditions. Card by mail? Postage, 
Card fee. Make it easy to order. 




Lee Wical <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
I don't know how ARRL can afford LoTW and its present and furure storage.
It will turn out, money wise, to be an albatross around the Leagues 
neck$
I'm told all monies go into the operating fund. Is this what the 
membership wants? I don't think so.
Wait an see.
Lee



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[DX-CHAT] LoTW

[Lee Wical]

I don't know how ARRL can afford LoTW and its present and furure storage.
It will turn out, money wise, to be an albatross around the Leagues 
neck$
I'm told all monies go into the operating fund. Is this what the 
membership wants? I don't think so.

Wait an see.
Lee



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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW versus paper, etc.

[Charlie, W0YG]

On top of everything that has been said, there is no mention of the overhead
that any DXpedition faces if immediately uploading logs to LoTW and that is
busted calls.  The upkeep to unsnarl this would be immense.  I for one don't
want that hassle so I NEVER upload logs for at least a year if then.

If there is a busted call in a log and one is forced to use LoTW, which is
quite awkward to use in my opinion, one corrects it in their DXpedition log
and then uploads that one Q to LoTW.  It doesn't replace the busted call,
only resides alongside the busted call.  This seems quite awkward to me.

That's my 2 cents worth on top of every else's input.  It is just that this
perhaps had not been throught of when suggesting a DXpedition be forced to
use LoTW.

Before someone jumps on me with both feet, I know, there are not supposed to
be busted calls in a log.  Well let me point out one that always catches
me.  How about OK2BW and OK2BWK.  That is a tough one as it could go either
way.  A busted call is a fact of life for a DXpedition, guaranteed!

I do agree with the two previous posters general comments.  Do not do away
with paper QSLs!

73,

Charlie..>>










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[DX-CHAT] LoTW versus paper, etc.

[Peter Dougherty]

At 09:33 AM 04/27/2007, Bob Schenck, N2OO wrote:

The fairest way to do things is the way it is currently being done.
LoTW is voluntary and it should always be such.
Many reasons.
There will always be people who "paper log".
There will always be DXpeditions that "paper log".
There will always be DXers who do not own a computer and/or do not have
access to the internet.
"Paper" QSLs therefore should always be available.


1% agree, Bob. I love 'em under certain circumstances. I will 
ultimately put together an album containing the nicese QSL I get from 
each entity, and every all-time new one gets a card request (and 
donation, now that I'm down to DXpedition-only needed, hi hi), and I 
look forward to each one with bated breath.



I can say with strict confidence after handling 3Y0X (and associated calls),
and the recent VU7 operations, that paper QSLing produces a rather large
funding source for the mega expensive DXpeditions.
Actually, much larger than I had originally thought.


Which is why I suggested the wait be a year to 18 months. It would 
absolutely be foolish to cut off your primary source of funding by 
mandating a quick upload to Logbook. But conversely, there are those 
who aren't into paper at all and need a couple of band-fills for DXCC 
challenge points, or need RTTY for a mode-award. Logbook works 
perfectly for guys like that.


I just got 5 Q's confirmed for Vatican City on LoTW the other day. 
Had I known they were going to upload, I wouldn't have sent my paper 
QSL request for the 2 new bands and one new mode, because at this 
point, how many more identical-looking HV0A cards do I need?



This will never be recovered if LoTW is utilized soon after a DXpedition is
over. Never. Trust me on this.
If DXpeditions were forced to utilize LoTW, it would definitely negatively
affect the funding. And as such, it could very well make it more difficult
to do DXpeditions, especially to the rarer hard to reach entities.


If they were forced to upload IMMEDIATELY upon their return, I 
completely concur. Hence, a statement on the Website that "all logs 
will be uploaded to Logbook of the World between one year and 18 
months after the completion of the DXpedition." We're about a year or 
so out from Peter 1 now; how many direct QSL requests with donations 
are you receiving, on average, per week now?



As for some sort of PayPal donation account tied to LoTW in order to "fund"
DXpeditions, that would of course be in contradiction to DXCC rules that
state that nobody can ever "require" payment for a QSL card. And it would
not be fair at all.


Yeah, I'd concur about having it tied to receiving confirmation. That 
would stink like a herring in August. Having prominent PayPal 
donation links all over the site, though, there's nothing wrong with 
that, IMHO. Just NOT on the QSL page!



Please, let's not take more away from the personal touch that a QSL card
brings to our hobby and to the pursuit of the DXCC (and other) awards.


But at the same time, not everyone wants a card if they're chasing 
paper. As I posted last night, if I never see another card from 
certain parts of the world it will be far too soon. I have a lot of 
entities on 8 bands and three modes already; all I'm missing is 12m 
(I never had a WARC antenna during the last cycle). I really don't 
care about paper cards, just give me a hit on LoTW for those and 
that's all I ask. Next Swains operation, for example. I need 'em on 
10 and 12 only.


I also have no problem with DXpeditions uploading their logs a year 
or two afterwards, but only if they choose to do so.


The problem with it being voluntary is that LoTW stays in its infancy 
and never matures. If you give people a reason or incentive to upload 
a log they will. We're, what, 3 years into the LoTW program right 
now? My LoTW hits are at an all-time record high of 16.7%. And only 
that high because most of my hits come from contests.


I know that you (Bob) and many others love paper cards and relish 
what they mean both individually and collectively to the hobby and 
its past; but there's a growing number of techno-savvy users who just 
don't want the hassle (or the expense) of going the paper route, and 
having a viable alternative to paper QSLing for the major operations 
I think should be a requirement at some point down the line.




Cheers,

Peter,
W2IRT 





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[DX-CHAT] Lotw Callsign Search

[Tom - KE1JF]

Thanks to HB9BZA here's a site for anyone to find 
out what stations use Lotw. Take a look, you may find that DX confirmation you 
need.
 
http://www.hb9bza.net/lotw/
 
73,
Tom, KE1JF

[DX-CHAT] LOTW Questiion answered

[Tom Johnson]

Got it figured out thanks to Wayne Mills. Thanks to all for the replies

Tom N4TJ
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[DX-CHAT] LOTW Questioin

[Tom Johnson]

I have just uploaded my old callsign to my account at LOTW. It has 
acknowledged some 5200 new entries, but the overall total has not changed. 
Do these logs need to be merged and if so, how?? Thanks


Tom N4TJ 

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Re: [DX-CHAT] LoTW Another question

[Georg Einfalt]

Tom,

PSK3 is not a valid mode-tag within a LOTW-upload. You should use PSK31. The
list of modes, which are accepted by the LOTW, is enclosed below.

I am also logging with DX4WIN, and I remember, that there has been a problem
in the past, but the current version (7.02) exports correctly (PSK31).

If you have invalid PSK3-mode-tags in your ADIF-export, you could modify
these tags with a ASCII-text-editor. Replace PSK3 with
PSK31 for the relevant QSOs, sign the file and resubmit...

73 de Georg, DL5NO



Mode Mode Group
CW   CW
PHONEPHONE
IMAGEIMAGE
DATA DATA
AM   PHONE
FM   PHONE
SSB  PHONE
ATV  IMAGE
FAX  IMAGE
SSTV IMAGE
AMTORDATA
CLOVER   DATA
FSK31DATA
FSK441   DATA
GTOR DATA
HELL DATA
HFSK DATA
JT65 DATA
MFSK16   DATA
MFSK8DATA
MINIRTTY DATA
MT63 DATA
OLIVIA   DATA
PACKET   DATA
PACTOR   DATA
PSK125   DATA
PSK31DATA
PSK63DATA
Q15  DATA
RTTY DATA
THROBDATA



First, thanks to all who answered my other query. Now, hopefully the last 
time I will have to bother you
LOTW rejected all my PSK31 QSOs. I am using DX4WIN v 5.03 and used the 
PSK3 mode for logging. Did I choose the wrong mode?  Thanks again


Tom N4TJ


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RE: [DX-CHAT] LOTW second callsign

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

You can apply for another certificate (using the TQSLCert program) for
additional calls, old or new.

Creating the actual request for the extra certificate is quick, simple, and
once the cert request is generated, it can be uploaded or emailed to the
server.

And, as I found out last weekend, the requests are manually processed or
reviewed during regular business hours, so you have all weekend to generate
and upload the file, and the ARRL LotW folks will have the new certificate
to you on Monday or Tuesday.

Your on-line log will show all QSO's and also under which call they were
generated.

73, ron w3wn

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf
Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 8:00 PM
To: Chat
Subject: [DX-CHAT] LOTW second callsign


I am trying to sign up for LOTW. So far, I have gotten N4TJ ok, but wish to
add my pre 1977 callsign. How do I go about adding it? Thanks.

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[DX-CHAT] LoTW Another question

[Tom Johnson]

First, thanks to all who answered my other query. Now, hopefully the last 
time I will have to bother you
LOTW rejected all my PSK31 QSOs. I am using DX4WIN v 5.03 and used the PSK3 
mode for logging. Did I choose the wrong mode?  Thanks again


Tom N4TJ 

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[DX-CHAT] LOTW question

[Tom Johnson]

It is 3AM and perhaps I am dense at present Anyway, I just got LOTW 
installed and uploaded. NOW how do I go about choosing which QSOs I want 
to submit? There are 655 matches and how can I pick and choose? Then, how do 
I actually make the submission? Thanks. Like I said, its 3AM and I'm sure I 
have overlooked something


N4TJ 

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[DX-CHAT] LOTW second callsign

[Tom Johnson]

I am trying to sign up for LOTW. So far, I have gotten N4TJ ok, but wish to 
add my pre 1977 callsign. How do I go about adding it? Thanks. 

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[DX-CHAT] LOTW URL DISREGARD

[Tom Johnson]

Thanks, I found it

N4TJ
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[DX-CHAT] LOTW

[Tom Johnson]

I seem to have lost the link to LOTW and want to renew my certificate. Would 
somebody forward me the URL?


Thanks

N4TJ 

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RE: [DX-CHAT] LotW Certificate

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

I got my answer already...

Certificates are "manually signed," so I won't get it back until sometime
tomorrow.

IE:  The Human element strikes again!

Thanks to all who replied!

73, ron w3wn

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf
Of Ron Notarius W3WN
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 9:37 PM
To: DX Chat Reflector
Subject: [DX-CHAT] LotW Certificate


Anyone in the group request an additional Logbook of the World certificate
(specifically for an additional call) lately?

I'm a little puzzled.  When I renewed mine last year, the server automation
took care of things in a relatively short time (about an hour or so, as I
recall, but don't hold me to that).  But I put a request in Friday night for
an additional certificate for the new call, and I haven't gotten anything
back yet.

I'm wondering if something is up with the server, or if it's just something
that requires human oversight and no one's working over the weekend...

73, ron w3wn

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[DX-CHAT] LotW Certificate

[Ron Notarius W3WN]

Anyone in the group request an additional Logbook of the World certificate
(specifically for an additional call) lately?

I'm a little puzzled.  When I renewed mine last year, the server automation
took care of things in a relatively short time (about an hour or so, as I
recall, but don't hold me to that).  But I put a request in Friday night for
an additional certificate for the new call, and I haven't gotten anything
back yet.

I'm wondering if something is up with the server, or if it's just something
that requires human oversight and no one's working over the weekend...

73, ron w3wn

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[DX-CHAT] LOTW processing time (my mistake)

[Kenneth Sobel]

Thanks to all who replied.
The problem was that i did not delete my old certificate when i renewed.
Maybe this is my mistake, but I think that TQSL should be smart enough to 
use the latest certificate.
de Ken W3JJ 



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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW processing time

[Tom - KE1JF]

Ken,

The QSO's from any .tq8 files I've uploaded have shown up right away. Try 
logging off then back in , if they still are missing go to your account and 
check your activity, the upload should show up.


Tom, KE1JF


- Original Message - 
From: "Kenneth Sobel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 10:21 AM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] LOTW processing time


It sure takes a long time for LOTW to process a qso file. I uploaded my 
.tq8 file with one qso for 4O6DX several hours ago, but I am still waiting 
for the qso to appear in my LOTW account

de Ken W3JJ

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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW processing time

[Jim Reisert AD1C]

--- Kenneth Sobel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It sure takes a long time for LOTW to process a qso file. I uploaded my .tq8 
> file with one qso for 4O6DX several hours ago, but I am still waiting for 
> the qso to appear in my LOTW account

Ken, it's a queue.  Maybe a number of people did the same thing you did.

73 - Jim AD1C


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USA +978-251-9933, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, http://www.ad1c.us
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[DX-CHAT] LOTW processing time

[Kenneth Sobel]

It sure takes a long time for LOTW to process a qso file. I uploaded my .tq8 
file with one qso for 4O6DX several hours ago, but I am still waiting for 
the qso to appear in my LOTW account
de Ken W3JJ 



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RE: [DX-CHAT] LOTW

[Ron Notarius WN3VAW]

There are already quite a few DX who offer, on-line, to send you a QSL
(after confirming a valid QSO, of course) direct after paying a small fee,
either via credit card or PayPal or whatever.

Regardless of what you think of the ethics of this (and keep in mind that
there are extenuating circumstances in many cases, including massive mail
theft in some 34d & 4th world entities), a DX station offering to upload
your QSO to LotW (or for that matter eQSL or similar service) for a fee
falls into the same category.

Having said that, I think any DX station who wants a fee paid to them by
you, the DX'er, for a log upload to Logbook or similar service is being
unethical.  Remember, uploading a log to LotW is and always has been free!

73

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf
Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 8:55 AM
To: Bernie McClenny, W3UR
Cc: 'DX, Chat'
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW


How great would it be if I logged on to DXA, looking at my QSO's (greenies).
DXA asks if I want my QSO's uploaded to LOTW for (let's say) 1 dollar per
QSO.
Enter your creditcard nr. etc.

Wim


Citeren "Bernie McClenny, W3UR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> N7EF=20
>
> =20
>
> You forgot to mention it would cost more.  Don't get me wrong I like QSL
> cards. =20
>
> =20
>
> I've worked all countries and have them all confirmed on the current =
> list.
> If all of a sudden there was a new DXCC Country I would send for a
> traditional paper QSL card to put one on the wall with the rest.  I'm
> seriously involved now in the DXCC Challenge with just under 3,000 band
> points.  If I were to work a new band point or country on RTTY I really
> don't need another paper card.  I'd just assume get it confirmed quickly =
> and
> relatively cheap via LOTW. =20
>
> =20
>
> Just for the sake of argument supposed I spent a minimum of $1 for each =
> of
> those QSLs.  Man if my wife found out, I'd be hung out to dry!  HI.  To =
> each
> there own.  I'm not knocking those who want the QSL cards.
>
> =20
>
> Bernie
>
>
>
>
> Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems
> http://njdxa.org/dx-chat
>
> To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org
>
> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA
> http://njdxa.org
>
>



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Re: [DX-CHAT] LOTW

[pa0wrs]

How great would it be if I logged on to DXA, looking at my QSO's (greenies).
DXA asks if I want my QSO's uploaded to LOTW for (let's say) 1 dollar per QSO.
Enter your creditcard nr. etc.

Wim


Citeren "Bernie McClenny, W3UR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> N7EF=20
>
> =20
>
> You forgot to mention it would cost more.  Don't get me wrong I like QSL
> cards. =20
>
> =20
>
> I've worked all countries and have them all confirmed on the current =
> list.
> If all of a sudden there was a new DXCC Country I would send for a
> traditional paper QSL card to put one on the wall with the rest.  I'm
> seriously involved now in the DXCC Challenge with just under 3,000 band
> points.  If I were to work a new band point or country on RTTY I really
> don't need another paper card.  I'd just assume get it confirmed quickly =
> and
> relatively cheap via LOTW. =20
>
> =20
>
> Just for the sake of argument supposed I spent a minimum of $1 for each =
> of
> those QSLs.  Man if my wife found out, I'd be hung out to dry!  HI.  To =
> each
> there own.  I'm not knocking those who want the QSL cards.
>
> =20
>
> Bernie
>
>
>
>
> Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems
> http://njdxa.org/dx-chat
>
> To post a message, DX related items only, dx-chat@njdxa.org
>
> This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA
> http://njdxa.org
>
>



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[DX-CHAT] LOTW

[Bernie McClenny, W3UR]

N7EF=20

=20

You forgot to mention it would cost more.  Don't get me wrong I like QSL
cards. =20

=20

I've worked all countries and have them all confirmed on the current =
list.
If all of a sudden there was a new DXCC Country I would send for a
traditional paper QSL card to put one on the wall with the rest.  I'm
seriously involved now in the DXCC Challenge with just under 3,000 band
points.  If I were to work a new band point or country on RTTY I really
don't need another paper card.  I'd just assume get it confirmed quickly =
and
relatively cheap via LOTW. =20

=20

Just for the sake of argument supposed I spent a minimum of $1 for each =
of
those QSLs.  Man if my wife found out, I'd be hung out to dry!  HI.  To =
each
there own.  I'm not knocking those who want the QSL cards.

=20

Bernie




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[DX-CHAT] LOTW Ideas for Incentives

[John Carobine - WB8RFB]

Bernie - W3UR,

Thanks for your comments and also the challenge you
threw out the the group.

What if the ARRL were to "Meet You Half-Way"?  

If the first 25 QSO's confirmed in LOTW for the basic
WAS award were gratis for "X" amount of time, perhaps
that would be a good incentive to get the DX logs
rolling in.  Or some variation of that?  

As to your comments about contesters - I suppose I'm
guilty as charged because I figured it's a quick way
to get some of the more readily available DX entities
out of the way while working on DXCC awards.  

Doing it that way actually worked as an incentive for
me.  I can be found tuning around and checking spots
during some very late and/or early morning hours on a
lot of non-contest days too.  For peanut whistle
stations like mine, it's often the only way to have a
good chance of snagging some of the rarer ones.  

Although it's only anecdotal, in reference to your
thoughts about methods to log contacts; I use a
software logging program and am nearly 58 years old. 
I find it very easy to work with, uploading to LOTW is
a snap, and you can see what your progress is just by
logging into LOTW occasionally and view how many more
confirmations have occurred since the last time you
checked.  

I can't wait until propagation improves with the next
sunspot cycle because even with low profile wire
antennas in these conditions, I'm still working DX. 
That's exciting in and of itself.  

As to bureau returns, my experience is mixed.  I've
sent out lots of cards, some going back many years,
and have a return rate of maybe 60 percent or a bit
more.  My personal experience is that contest stations
are near the low end of my return percentage when it
comes to getting a card back.  Thus, LOTW seems to
help greatly in that regard.

I'm all for any incentives that will encourage more DX
stations to send in their logs and help us DX
neophytes boost their counts.  We all win in the end.

WB8RFB





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Re: [DX-CHAT] lotw problem??

[Larry Makoski W2LJ]

Steve,

The server definitely appears to be down.

Larry W2LJ

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[DX-CHAT] lotw problem??

[Steve Litwins]

I've been having trouble getting to the log-on window at LoTW since late
this am...anybody else?  73/dx
steve, k8wk
*


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[DX-CHAT] LOTW

[Tom Wylie]

The log for GM4FDM on LOTW was updated as from 
today's date.
 
73 de tom
gm4fdm
 
www.visitscotland.com

RE: [DX-CHAT] LOTW

[mausoptik ltd]

I would agree.  LOTW is a complete pain the the backside and involves
jumping through a phethora of hurdles.  All this for a hobby?  What a
waste of effort.  Frankly if I wish to do a DXCC update, it's easier
(and more pleasure) to meet a field checker such as G4BWP for a beer or
two in a nice English pub, to look through the QSL cards and to discuss
life, the universe and everything (possibly including DX) than to mess
about with a sodding computer.  

LOTW?  I'm sure it's well engineered, secure and works.  You're welcome
to it.  I can't be bothered with it, but as far as I can see, the ARRL
listened to its members and delivered what they asked for.  I'm not
being FORCED to use LOTW so have no complaints.

73

Dave G0OIL

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 22 January 2005 17:16
To: dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: [DX-CHAT] [DX-NEWS] LOTW


I don't know about anyone else but my reaction to LOTW is that it is
just overly complicated!  I have done many financial transactions on
line.  None of them was even nearly as complicated and difficult as
LOTW. For now I'm not sure I want to be bothered.  I've had a very low
percentage of "hits" on the logs I've submitted to date.

It seems to me that this system will not succeed unless they find ways
to make it easier for users.

73,

Steve
W2KN

-Original Message-
From: Ron Notarius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jan 21, 2005 10:01 PM
To: Ted Melinosky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, dx-chat@njdxa.org
Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] [DX-NEWS]  LOTW

Has anyone asked ARRL about it?  Ted, since you've got a connection with
CQ, do you know if anyone from CQ has asked?  Have you?

I'm not trying to be a pain in the tuchus.  But it seems relevant to
inquire if anyone asked before wondering if ARRL has made it available.
Or... has no one asked because everyone is waiting for an "it's
available" announcement, and yet no announcement has been made yet
because the folks up in Newington are waiting for someone to ask?

Either way... remember, Logbook is just over a year old, and ARRL is
still working on it.  One wonders if we're rushing things here.  Logbook
will be with us a long, long time... seems to me that it's prudent to
take our time and make sure it gets done right, including access by
other organizations. Even if that means waiting awhile.

73

- Original Message - 
From: "Ted Melinosky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "dx-news" 
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [DX-NEWS] [:dx-news:] LOTW


> Robert Dixon wrote:
> > Does anybody know what other organizations accept LOTW,  like CQ 
> > awards, etc.
> >
> > BTW, kudos to our "Old European" friends for the unveiling of the 
> > new Airbus.  Wonder with all that gingerbread if they could squeeze 
> > a hamshack in!
> >
> > Bob, W8HGH
> >
> >
> >
> > Robert Dixon
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Ham radio: The real internet since May, 1895
> >
> >
> I think the question should be: has ARRL made LOTW available to other 
> organizations for awards purposes?  I don't think so at this time, 
> though this may change.
>
> Ted Melinosky K1BV
> USA-CA Custodian (the County Award) for CQ Magazine 
> 
>
>
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Re: [DX-CHAT] lotw

[Steve Lawrence]

There's an old business axiom that applies here:
QUALITY - TIME - COST
You can have only two of the three simultaneously.
73, Steve WB6RSE
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Re: [DX-CHAT] lotw

[Gary Danaher]

You have a very fundamental misunderstanding of how LOTW works. Perhaps
rather than complaining, you should just simply read the rules! Anyone
can create an account and then upload their logs in the proper format
to the database. These in turn are compared to other logs, and where a
match is found, a qsl record is created. You can then see these and
determine if you want them credited to your dxcc record. At that point
you can pay as much as 25 cents each for these. You don't get a paper
qsl. The contact is credited o your records. If you can print and send
qsl cards for less than a quarter dollar each, let me know how. There
is nothing in the instructions which would for a moment suggest that
there is a charge to uplaod your logs. Where you got that idea is
anyone's guess. READ THE RULES.



rkenwood wrote:

  
  
This is what i copied from the site  The basic fee for a QSL record
issued for award credit will be $ 0.25 (USD 0.25). Quantity
discounts will apply depending on number of credits purchased.
  Credits can be purchased according to the following table. Credits
may be purchased at any time and in any price category. You may
purchase any number of credits at the same 
now for me  .25 c to 80c is still a bargan but what you don't
understand is that i have to save for the 80c for one card disired. If
i uploaded my log I wouldn't eat for a month or 3. Maybe i don't
understand  the system which is very possible but the original email
was compareing Eqsl to LOTW why one works with donations from someone
who has money and my understanding of LOTW (ARRL) who charges to
upload. This is my problem with it  if you can tell me that i can
upload for free but still not be able to use it or get a card or tell
me how it would work for me( gee you think the ARRL would be willing
help a disabled fixed income person who plays radio all day well not
all:-)) Now sir that is whineing but come live in my world for a week
or a month and you would understand.But as a final if you can tell me
how to use LOTW and it is free that would be great I have 3 band DXCC
10 15 20  6m WAS WAC VUCC i can't afford ARRL fees and I've only been a
ham for ten yrs and i don't think that to bad 
  
Rick
  
Ron Notarius wrote:
  
Oh?  It costs money to upload to Logbook?  Gee, someone better tell the
League to send me a bill...

 
  
  

Re: [DX-CHAT] lotw

[rkenwood]

This is what i copied from the site  The basic fee for a QSL record
issued for award credit will be $ 0.25 (USD 0.25). Quantity
discounts will apply depending on number of credits purchased.
Credits can be purchased according to the following table. Credits
may be purchased at any time and in any price category. You may
purchase any number of credits at the same 
now for me  .25 c to 80c is still a bargan but what you don't
understand is that i have to save for the 80c for one card disired. If
i uploaded my log I wouldn't eat for a month or 3. Maybe i don't
understand  the system which is very possible but the original email
was compareing Eqsl to LOTW why one works with donations from someone
who has money and my understanding of LOTW (ARRL) who charges to
upload. This is my problem with it  if you can tell me that i can
upload for free but still not be able to use it or get a card or tell
me how it would work for me( gee you think the ARRL would be willing
help a disabled fixed income person who plays radio all day well not
all:-)) Now sir that is whineing but come live in my world for a week
or a month and you would understand.But as a final if you can tell me
how to use LOTW and it is free that would be great I have 3 band DXCC
10 15 20  6m WAS WAC VUCC i can't afford ARRL fees and I've only been a
ham for ten yrs and i don't think that to bad 

Rick

Ron Notarius wrote:

  Oh?  It costs money to upload to Logbook?  Gee, someone better tell the
League to send me a bill...

 
  
  

Re: [DX-CHAT] lotw

[Ron Notarius]

Oh?  It costs money to upload to Logbook?  Gee, someone better tell the
League to send me a bill...

Sorry Rick, but there is NO COST for uploading your log.  Costs only come
into play when you apply for an award (DXCC at the moment, more to follow
I'm sure).  And as I recall, it is does NOT cost more to apply for DXCC via
Logbook; might even cost less, I don't remember the exact numbers offhand.

You know, I don't get it.  For years, certain quarters screamed because the
ARRL insisted on physical cards sent to Newington.  Then they screamed when
Field Checkers went into place.  Now they're screaming because Logbook,
finally up and running, can mean that you get your credits in days or hours
instead of weeks, months, even years.  The common theme in all the various
levels of screaming is that the League is "greedy" and "money grubbing" and
so on and so forth.  Can't they, just once, get a break for doing something
pretty much not just right, but what they were asked to do?  Sheesh.

73

- Original Message - 
From: "rkenwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 11:52 PM
Subject: [DX-CHAT] lotw


>
>
>
>
> >
> >I don't see how you guys afford to upload your logs to LOTW  it seems to
> >me just another way for  ARRL to get money
> >Rick
> >
> >Ron Notarius wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>As I recall, during the development of LotW, the ARRL planned all along
to
> >>permit other organizations to interface with the system.  So I think
it's
> >>fair to ask (a) if any other organization has asked yet, and if so, (b)
when
> >>the details will be worked out.
> >>
> >>As far as eQSL... well, it's an interesting novelty, but it's not secure
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
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RE: [DX-CHAT] lotw

[Gary McClellan]

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Art, you are quite correct!
Rick, I don't understand your point.  It's much more economical
to use LoTW than send a airmail SAE and 1-2 USD or 1 IRC.  If eQSL
is your preferred way then go with it.  They have their own awards
and that's great.  Some people don't need ANY cards as they have the
contacts in the log and that's great too.. I get tired of folks
complaining about the ARRL making a few bucks.  Geez, no one forces
anyone to participate in DXCC after all :-)
Art RX9TX wrote:
 Hello dx-chat,
 Saturday, January 22, 2005 rkenwood wrote to dx-chat@njdxa.org:

I don't see how you guys afford to upload your logs to LOTW  it seems to
me just another way for  ARRL to get money
Rick

In my case (and actually all other cases) it's a way to save MY money.
And  I'm  not  disappointed  if ARRL gets some money :) just because I
save  my  money.  Then who loses? Postal service and DX-side as you do
not need to send direct request in many cases if you use LoTW.

--
Gary McClellan, K7ZD
Phoenix, Arizona USA
SOC#599NAQRP#569 Outgoing scanned
FISTS#4706-FPQRP#919 ©¿©¬ by Norton AV

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RE: [DX-CHAT] lotw

[Joe Subich, K4IK]

Rkenwood wrote: 

> >I don't see how you guys afford to upload your logs to LOTW  
> it seems to me just another way for  ARRL to get money

It costs nothing to upload logs to Logbook of the World.  

If you use the confirmations generated to apply for one of the 
DXCC awards, the confirmation credits cost considerably less 
than the total cost of a QSL.  I did an cost comparison some 
time ago (when the cost of the credits were first announced): 


For a US station to a US manager I figure the cost: 

Low  High 
   QSL Card$0.04$0.25
   Labels (QSO/address)  .01  .10
   Envelopes (2) .15  .15
   Printer consumables (est) .05  .05 
   Postage (SASE).74  .74   
--   -  
  Total:   $0.99$1.29  


For a US station to a DX station (other than XE or VE): 

Low  High 
   QSL Card$0.04$0.25
   Labels (QSO/address)  .01  .10
   Envelopes (2) .15  .15
   Printer consumables (est) .05  .05 
   Postage   .80  .80 
   Return Postage   2.00 3.00
--   -  
  Total:   $3.05$4.35   


Let's look at bureau QSLing:  If one is not sending cards by 
the pound, the bureau fees are $0.10 each.  10 cards should 
fit in a 2 oz. first class letter ... the postage is $.60. 
The postage for getting cards from the incoming bureau will be 
about $0.60 per ten cards.  The cost of envelopes (three) will 
be around $0.30.  For the round trip, a "bureau card" will 
cost between $0.45 and $0.65 each (and take perhaps a year or 
more).  

This compares to $0.20 per LotW "credit" when the credits are 
purchased in lots of 100.  

Sounds like a real deal to me ... and that doesn't even count 
the cost of shipping cards to Newington for checking, etc. 

73, 

   ... Joe, K4IK 
 

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Re: [DX-CHAT] lotw

[Art RX9TX]

 Hello dx-chat,

 Saturday, January 22, 2005 rkenwood wrote to dx-chat@njdxa.org:

>>I don't see how you guys afford to upload your logs to LOTW  it seems to
>>me just another way for  ARRL to get money
>>Rick

In my case (and actually all other cases) it's a way to save MY money.
And  I'm  not  disappointed  if ARRL gets some money :) just because I
save  my  money.  Then who loses? Postal service and DX-side as you do
not need to send direct request in many cases if you use LoTW.

-- 
 73...Art RX9TX1/22/2005 5:28 UTC

 "God is a comedian, playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."  
(Voltaire)

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