Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
On Mon, 2005-03-21 at 17:20 -0800, Bill Barker wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Stephen Colebourne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jakarta General List" > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:45 PM > Subject: Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ? > > > > From: "Henri Gomez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Well I'd like to know the pros and cons of Tomcat being TLP. > > > > > > As I said in tomcat-dev, it was proposed when ant became TLP and at > > > this time the consensus was to stay under jakarta umbrella. > > > > > > What motivate the move to TLP now. > > > > Currently, Tomcat developers are having to take time away from their main > > task (coding) to answer management issues raised by Jakarta. This raises > the > > question of whether Tomcat is big enough and mature enough to manage these > > issues itself, without the involvement of Jakarta. > > > > Great. Now this thread has moved from JBoss-bashing to dissing the entire > Tomcat community. > > I'm looking forward to your involvement on tomcat-dev so that we can all > know that Tomcat has the proper adult supervision. this isn't tomcat bashing: it applies equally to all jakarta sub-projects. the jakarta pmc (including stephen) supervises every sub-project (including tomcat) on behalf of the board. once a sub-project community feels that they are ready to manage their own affairs, that's great but there can be no question of self-governing sub-projects: it's time for them to move on and up :) - robert - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
On Mar 21, 2005, at 3:51 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Please, lets calm the things down. Henri will write an email to SD magazine, and the earth will still spin tomorrow. Well, actually, if it would pause briefly on Wednesday, that'd be OK. I have to fly east, and would rather not chase the horizon for 3000 miles. Yeah, but that would result in some serious damage to the real-estate with all the buildings disintegrating and such. Maybe the cheaper alternative is to get an upgrade to business class? --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Geir Magnusson Jr +1-203-665-6437 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
> Please, lets calm the things down. > Henri will write an email to SD magazine, and the earth > will still spin tomorrow. Well, actually, if it would pause briefly on Wednesday, that'd be OK. I have to fly east, and would rather not chase the horizon for 3000 miles. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
Yes, Noel. i have the same feeling that Stephen has: "it seems likely (based on emails to the thread from Tomcat committers) that this PR release would have been a non-issue. " So the tomcat committers would be doing it on their own terms. with no one pushing them. Quote from Mladen's email: "so many Chairmans and Directors with opposite statements" Quote from Costin's email makes me think that they are ready for it: "If tomcat would be a top level project instead of jakarta-tomcat, most likely Remy would be the PMC chair. Acording to ASF rules, the PMC chair is the ultimate decision maker for a project." And i love the quote from Remy: ""more code, less politics" So i'd say what is the benchmark for TLP? If the tomcat committers want it and show the will to do it. Why not? The only question in my mind is do they want it? thanks, dims On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:56:54 -0500, Noel J. Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dims, > > The new TLP would be expected to address the same issues, and to work with > the PRC and other parts of the ASF, but they'd be more immediately > associated with them, too. > > --- Noel > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
> > Currently, Tomcat developers are having to take time away from > > their main task (coding) to answer management issues raised by > > Jakarta. This raises the question of whether Tomcat is big > > enough and mature enough to manage these issues itself, without > > the involvement of Jakarta. > Great. Now this thread has moved from JBoss-bashing to dissing > the entire Tomcat community. Where did you see that from what he said? He correctly noted that moving to TLP status has certain requirements, but no one has said that Tomcat does not possess them. Quite to the contrary from most notes I've read on this thread. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
- Original Message - From: "Stephen Colebourne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jakarta General List" Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 2:45 PM Subject: Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ? > From: "Henri Gomez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Well I'd like to know the pros and cons of Tomcat being TLP. > > > > As I said in tomcat-dev, it was proposed when ant became TLP and at > > this time the consensus was to stay under jakarta umbrella. > > > > What motivate the move to TLP now. > > Currently, Tomcat developers are having to take time away from their main > task (coding) to answer management issues raised by Jakarta. This raises the > question of whether Tomcat is big enough and mature enough to manage these > issues itself, without the involvement of Jakarta. > Great. Now this thread has moved from JBoss-bashing to dissing the entire Tomcat community. I'm looking forward to your involvement on tomcat-dev so that we can all know that Tomcat has the proper adult supervision. > For example, in this case, if Tomcat were a TLP, it seems likely (based on > emails to the thread from Tomcat committers) that this PR release would have > been a non-issue. > > Stephen > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > This message is intended only for the use of the person(s) listed above as the intended recipient(s), and may contain information that is PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not read, copy, or distribute this message or any attachment. If you received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and then delete all copies of this message and any attachments. In addition you should be aware that ordinary (unencrypted) e-mail sent through the Internet is not secure. Do not send confidential or sensitive information, such as social security numbers, account numbers, personal identification numbers and passwords, to us via ordinary (unencrypted) e-mail. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
Dims, The new TLP would be expected to address the same issues, and to work with the PRC and other parts of the ASF, but they'd be more immediately associated with them, too. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
Pros: - Tomcat pmc will be responsible for all its actions and decisions - Report directly to board every quarter - No meddling from outsiders (jakarta-general folks and others (read jakarta pmc) from the peanut gallery :) - Top Level domain - http://tomcat.apache.org/ - One of pmc members can become a VP - Tomcat committers (via pmc) will have full control over all affairs including what to name the thingy :) Cons: - Can't think of any off the top of my head. -- dims On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:27:32 +0100, Henri Gomez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Well I'd like to know the pros and cons of Tomcat being TLP. > > As I said in tomcat-dev, it was proposed when ant became TLP and at > this time the consensus was to stay under jakarta umbrella. > > What motivate the move to TLP now. > > Regards > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:16:51 -0500, Noel J. Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mladen Turk wrote: > > > > > Noel J. Bergman wrote: > > > > I am not aware of any complaints regarding your technical contributions. > > > > > Cool, means so much to me. > > > I also have no complaints on your technical skills :) > > > > My observation, not opinion, was in response to your expressing concern that > > there would be outside opposition based upon you and Remy working for JBoss. > > As far as I'm aware, no one has ever complained about a contribution biasing > > the product for JBoss. And, as you had pointed out, there are two of you > > and many others with veto rights. In fact, although I have not looked to do > > a body count, my belief is that Tomcat is more balanced than Beehive, Derby, > > Lenya or XMLBeans, to name a few. > > > > > > If anything, I am more likely to feel sorry for you and Remy > > > > getting caught in the crossfire. > > > > > Please don't sorry me, and don't insult my intelligence. > > > > I'm mystified as to how you could derive the latter from my comment. > > > > --- Noel > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
From: "Henri Gomez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Well I'd like to know the pros and cons of Tomcat being TLP. As I said in tomcat-dev, it was proposed when ant became TLP and at this time the consensus was to stay under jakarta umbrella. What motivate the move to TLP now. Currently, Tomcat developers are having to take time away from their main task (coding) to answer management issues raised by Jakarta. This raises the question of whether Tomcat is big enough and mature enough to manage these issues itself, without the involvement of Jakarta. For example, in this case, if Tomcat were a TLP, it seems likely (based on emails to the thread from Tomcat committers) that this PR release would have been a non-issue. Stephen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
> Please, lets calm the things down. > Henri will write an email to SD magazine, and the earth > will still spin tomorrow. ...that's an excellent ending for this discussion :) Thanks -- Torsten signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
Noel J. Bergman wrote: I'm mystified as to how you could derive the latter from my comment. Please, lets calm the things down. Henri will write an email to SD magazine, and the earth will still spin tomorrow. Regards, Mladen. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
Well I'd like to know the pros and cons of Tomcat being TLP. As I said in tomcat-dev, it was proposed when ant became TLP and at this time the consensus was to stay under jakarta umbrella. What motivate the move to TLP now. Regards On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:16:51 -0500, Noel J. Bergman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mladen Turk wrote: > > > Noel J. Bergman wrote: > > > I am not aware of any complaints regarding your technical contributions. > > > Cool, means so much to me. > > I also have no complaints on your technical skills :) > > My observation, not opinion, was in response to your expressing concern that > there would be outside opposition based upon you and Remy working for JBoss. > As far as I'm aware, no one has ever complained about a contribution biasing > the product for JBoss. And, as you had pointed out, there are two of you > and many others with veto rights. In fact, although I have not looked to do > a body count, my belief is that Tomcat is more balanced than Beehive, Derby, > Lenya or XMLBeans, to name a few. > > > > If anything, I am more likely to feel sorry for you and Remy > > > getting caught in the crossfire. > > > Please don't sorry me, and don't insult my intelligence. > > I'm mystified as to how you could derive the latter from my comment. > > --- Noel > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
Mladen Turk wrote: > Noel J. Bergman wrote: > > I am not aware of any complaints regarding your technical contributions. > Cool, means so much to me. > I also have no complaints on your technical skills :) My observation, not opinion, was in response to your expressing concern that there would be outside opposition based upon you and Remy working for JBoss. As far as I'm aware, no one has ever complained about a contribution biasing the product for JBoss. And, as you had pointed out, there are two of you and many others with veto rights. In fact, although I have not looked to do a body count, my belief is that Tomcat is more balanced than Beehive, Derby, Lenya or XMLBeans, to name a few. > > If anything, I am more likely to feel sorry for you and Remy > > getting caught in the crossfire. > Please don't sorry me, and don't insult my intelligence. I'm mystified as to how you could derive the latter from my comment. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
Noel J. Bergman wrote: I am not aware of any complaints regarding your technical contributions. Cool, means so much to me. I also have no complaints on your technical skills :) Only over your employer's attempts at self-portraiture. If anything, I am more likely to feel sorry for you and Remy getting caught in the crossfire. Please don't sorry me, and don't insult my intelligence. Regards, Mladen. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
Jim Jagielski wrote: > Mladen Turk wrote: > > Anyhow, what are your feelings that we (Tomcat developers), > > propose to the ASF to be nominated as TLP? I'd say that it is about time. > I know that some of you will think (since it's coming from me) > 'Damn, JBoss is trying to control the Tomcat', but there > is just Remy and myself, with dozen of other developers, each > of them having a veto for anything that we try to commit as > encrypted or evil :). I am not aware of any complaints regarding your technical contributions. Only over your employer's attempts at self-portraiture. If anything, I am more likely to feel sorry for you and Remy getting caught in the crossfire. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jakarta Apache Tomcat as a TLP ?
On Mar 21, 2005, at 12:17 PM, Mladen Turk wrote: Anyhow, what are your feelings that we (Tomcat developers), propose to the ASF to be nominated as TLP? Personally, I think the Tomcat community is large enough and healthy enough to warrant change to a TLP. I know that some of you will think (since it's coming from me) 'Damn, JBoss is trying to control the Tomcat', but there is just Remy and myself, with dozen of other developers, each of them having a veto for anything that we try to commit as encrypted or evil :). Now you're just being paranoid ;) But then again, when I pass your Email through my patented is-it-evil.py Evil detection code, it decodes as "Bwaaa H Ha Ha"! Ack!! :) Cheers! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]