Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
There hasnt been a general speed limit of 55 Mph(80 km/h) on US Interstate Highways in many years. Its 55 Mph only in populate areas (not many adhere to that anyway), 65 Mph outside the cities, and West of the Mississippi 75 Mph (or more in selected areas). Ive seen 75 Mph East of the Mississippi, but only on some toll roads. Roger W. Suhr mailto:suhr...@gmail.com From: mailto:suhr...@gmail.com <mailto:suhr...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 11:32 To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of John McKown <mailto:john.archie.mck...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 11:17:47 AM To: mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:23 AM R.S. <mailto:r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl> wrote: > (I know it's off-topic) > My opinion: I like american cars and roads. > However I don't understand common speed limit 55 mph which is in my > opinion too low for the road on desert. > Pretty much "inertia". Back when 55 was first introduced, it during the "oil embargo (1969-1976)") and it was touted as the most fuel efficient speed. Today, that is totally false. Engines are much more efficient now. Today it is touted as safer. I don't know about that. But, then again, here in Texas the speed limit on highways is pretty much regarded as a suggestion. Except when it goes through a small town, where a smaller limit is imposed and is basically used as a source of revenue for the local government (aka "speed trap"). That's why the government loves automatic license readers -- the cops don't even need to wake up to issue a ticket. Isn't technology wonderful?!? Speaking of driving in the desert, long ago, I remember my dad going through Arizona -- flat & featureless. He was tired, and passed driving off to my mom & told her not to go too fast. She scoffed. I was in the back seat. When I woke up, I asked mom why she was going over 100 mph (150 kph)? Ah, the dangers of a Cadillac, smooth pavement, and nothing to see along the road. > > BTW: > Here in Poland default limit on highway is 140 km/h. > However in Germany default is ...your sanity. No speed limit. Most cars > have factory limit at 250 km/h, but not luxury ones. And yes, it is > legal to drive 300 km/h > Of course this is for highways only. And speed limit signs may reduce it. > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > -- People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to mailto:lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:23 AM R.S. wrote: > (I know it's off-topic) > My opinion: I like american cars and roads. > However I don't understand common speed limit 55 mph which is in my > opinion too low for the road on desert. > Pretty much "inertia". Back when 55 was first introduced, it during the "oil embargo (1969-1976)") and it was touted as the most fuel efficient speed. Today, that is totally false. Engines are much more efficient now. Today it is touted as safer. I don't know about that. But, then again, here in Texas the speed limit on highways is pretty much regarded as a suggestion. Except when it goes through a small town, where a smaller limit is imposed and is basically used as a source of revenue for the local government (aka "speed trap"). That's why the government loves automatic license readers -- the cops don't even need to wake up to issue a ticket. Isn't technology wonderful?!? Speaking of driving in the desert, long ago, I remember my dad going through Arizona -- flat & featureless. He was tired, and passed driving off to my mom & told her not to go too fast. She scoffed. I was in the back seat. When I woke up, I asked mom why she was going over 100 mph (150 kph)? Ah, the dangers of a Cadillac, smooth pavement, and nothing to see along the road. > > BTW: > Here in Poland default limit on highway is 140 km/h. > However in Germany default is ...your sanity. No speed limit. Most cars > have factory limit at 250 km/h, but not luxury ones. And yes, it is > legal to drive 300 km/h > Of course this is for highways only. And speed limit signs may reduce it. > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > -- People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: [External] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Hi Rex, In the Northeast, interstates are generally 55-70. I haven't encountered any interstate that is 80. There can also be sections of the same highway with differing speeds. Regards, David On 2020-08-04 09:01, Pommier, Rex wrote: Radoslaw, Speed limits are different in the States based on which state you're in. Each state can set its own speed limit. I am in South Dakota, and most smaller 2 lane roads are 55 MPH. Many of the state 2 lane roads are 65, and the interstates have an 80 MPH speed limit, the equivalent of about 130 KPH. So the divided highways - at least in South Dakota - are reasonable. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of R.S. Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 7:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? (I know it's off-topic) My opinion: I like american cars and roads. However I don't understand common speed limit 55 mph which is in my opinion too low for the road on desert. BTW: Here in Poland default limit on highway is 140 km/h. However in Germany default is ...your sanity. No speed limit. Most cars have factory limit at 250 km/h, but not luxury ones. And yes, it is legal to drive 300 km/h Of course this is for highways only. And speed limit signs may reduce it. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 21.07.2020 o 20:24, Tony Thigpen pisze: Too many things That context was with regard to driving in Canada and should have been 100 KPM, not 100 knots. :-( Last time I was in Canada, we still were stuck with mostly 55mph limits in USA while Canada seemed to have a standard of 100kpm so I equate the two. My point was that I don't bother to convert. I just use the measurement as presented. Tony Thigpen Pew, Curtis G wrote on 7/21/20 12:28 PM: On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:12 AM, David Spiegel wrote: "... 100 knots is about 55mph ..." Assuming you meant Kilometers/Hour (based upon the context), it's actually 62.5 MPH. Well, if the posted limit is 55 mph, 62.5 mph seems about the right speed to go. 😉 But duck-duck-go tells me 100 knots is 115.078 mph, or 185.2001 km/h. == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mbank.pl%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1ecf9cb025e64e562a8f08d83876becd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637321429944562409&sdata=HevLSeeXiuLHxJwyH0zOJ65fIBnr5VGCP1DZodVDgSo%3D&reserved=0, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mbank.pl%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1ecf9cb025e64e562a8f08d83876becd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637321429944562409&sdata=HevLSeeXiuLHxJwyH0zOJ65fIBnr5VGCP1DZodVDgSo%3D&reserved=0, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, i
Re: [External] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
The 55 MPH limit was a federal law designed to force people to save fuel by driving slower during the 70's when the fuel crisis hit the US. And, we were stuck with for a long time even after the fuel crisis was over. Some studies showed that while it saved fuel for autos, it cost fuel for long-haul trucking. Just like the 18% interest rates of the 70's, we hope to never see a national 55MPH speed limit again. Tony Thigpen Pommier, Rex wrote on 8/4/20 9:01 AM: Radoslaw, Speed limits are different in the States based on which state you're in. Each state can set its own speed limit. I am in South Dakota, and most smaller 2 lane roads are 55 MPH. Many of the state 2 lane roads are 65, and the interstates have an 80 MPH speed limit, the equivalent of about 130 KPH. So the divided highways - at least in South Dakota - are reasonable. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of R.S. Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 7:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? (I know it's off-topic) My opinion: I like american cars and roads. However I don't understand common speed limit 55 mph which is in my opinion too low for the road on desert. BTW: Here in Poland default limit on highway is 140 km/h. However in Germany default is ...your sanity. No speed limit. Most cars have factory limit at 250 km/h, but not luxury ones. And yes, it is legal to drive 300 km/h Of course this is for highways only. And speed limit signs may reduce it. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 21.07.2020 o 20:24, Tony Thigpen pisze: Too many things That context was with regard to driving in Canada and should have been 100 KPM, not 100 knots. :-( Last time I was in Canada, we still were stuck with mostly 55mph limits in USA while Canada seemed to have a standard of 100kpm so I equate the two. My point was that I don't bother to convert. I just use the measurement as presented. Tony Thigpen Pew, Curtis G wrote on 7/21/20 12:28 PM: On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:12 AM, David Spiegel wrote: "... 100 knots is about 55mph ..." Assuming you meant Kilometers/Hour (based upon the context), it's actually 62.5 MPH. Well, if the posted limit is 55 mph, 62.5 mph seems about the right speed to go. 😉 But duck-duck-go tells me 100 knots is 115.078 mph, or 185.2001 km/h. == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether i
Re: [External] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Radoslaw, Speed limits are different in the States based on which state you're in. Each state can set its own speed limit. I am in South Dakota, and most smaller 2 lane roads are 55 MPH. Many of the state 2 lane roads are 65, and the interstates have an 80 MPH speed limit, the equivalent of about 130 KPH. So the divided highways - at least in South Dakota - are reasonable. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of R.S. Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 7:23 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? (I know it's off-topic) My opinion: I like american cars and roads. However I don't understand common speed limit 55 mph which is in my opinion too low for the road on desert. BTW: Here in Poland default limit on highway is 140 km/h. However in Germany default is ...your sanity. No speed limit. Most cars have factory limit at 250 km/h, but not luxury ones. And yes, it is legal to drive 300 km/h Of course this is for highways only. And speed limit signs may reduce it. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 21.07.2020 o 20:24, Tony Thigpen pisze: > Too many things > > That context was with regard to driving in Canada and should have been > 100 KPM, not 100 knots. :-( > > Last time I was in Canada, we still were stuck with mostly 55mph > limits in USA while Canada seemed to have a standard of 100kpm so I > equate the two. > > My point was that I don't bother to convert. I just use the > measurement as presented. > > Tony Thigpen > > Pew, Curtis G wrote on 7/21/20 12:28 PM: >> On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:12 AM, David Spiegel >> wrote: >>> >>> "... 100 knots is about 55mph ..." >>> Assuming you meant Kilometers/Hour (based upon the context), it's >>> actually 62.5 MPH. >>> >> >> Well, if the posted limit is 55 mph, 62.5 mph seems about the right >> speed to go. 😉 >> >> But duck-duck-go tells me 100 knots is 115.078 mph, or 185.2001 km/h. == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
(I know it's off-topic) My opinion: I like american cars and roads. However I don't understand common speed limit 55 mph which is in my opinion too low for the road on desert. BTW: Here in Poland default limit on highway is 140 km/h. However in Germany default is ...your sanity. No speed limit. Most cars have factory limit at 250 km/h, but not luxury ones. And yes, it is legal to drive 300 km/h Of course this is for highways only. And speed limit signs may reduce it. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland W dniu 21.07.2020 o 20:24, Tony Thigpen pisze: Too many things That context was with regard to driving in Canada and should have been 100 KPM, not 100 knots. :-( Last time I was in Canada, we still were stuck with mostly 55mph limits in USA while Canada seemed to have a standard of 100kpm so I equate the two. My point was that I don't bother to convert. I just use the measurement as presented. Tony Thigpen Pew, Curtis G wrote on 7/21/20 12:28 PM: On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:12 AM, David Spiegel wrote: "... 100 knots is about 55mph ..." Assuming you meant Kilometers/Hour (based upon the context), it's actually 62.5 MPH. Well, if the posted limit is 55 mph, 62.5 mph seems about the right speed to go. 😉 But duck-duck-go tells me 100 knots is 115.078 mph, or 185.2001 km/h. == Jeśli nie jesteś adresatem tej wiadomości: - powiadom nas o tym w mailu zwrotnym (dziękujemy!), - usuń trwale tę wiadomość (i wszystkie kopie, które wydrukowałeś lub zapisałeś na dysku). Wiadomość ta może zawierać chronione prawem informacje, które może wykorzystać tylko adresat.Przypominamy, że każdy, kto rozpowszechnia (kopiuje, rozprowadza) tę wiadomość lub podejmuje podobne działania, narusza prawo i może podlegać karze. mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Kapitał zakładowy (opłacony w całości) według stanu na 01.01.2020 r. wynosi 169.401.468 złotych. If you are not the addressee of this message: - let us know by replying to this e-mail (thank you!), - delete this message permanently (including all the copies which you have printed out or saved). This message may contain legally protected information, which may be used exclusively by the addressee.Please be reminded that anyone who disseminates (copies, distributes) this message or takes any similar action, violates the law and may be penalised. mBank S.A. with its registered office in Warsaw, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa,www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl. District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, 12th Commercial Division of the National Court Register, KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Fully paid-up share capital amounting to PLN 169.401.468 as at 1 January 2020. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Nothing in that article supports that claim, and such a scale would have been useless for any serious scientific work. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 4:19 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 07:58:07 +1000, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: >Centigrade was derived from Celsius, however, both described only the >freezing point and boiling point of water at NTP. > If "was derived" implies a historical sequence, I think you have it reversed. >My physics teachers said don't say >100 centigrade. It's outside the >bounds. So physicists use Kelvin. > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1L1IVVsiF4MfL6d6wEB8onwK3KRrBkp6SjWK0C6MBX86Mf2N1IG0Icl9N50zcZoTnlJwesuaakZnDKXbrOrPDkyl0Zl7A70lWyWY3C5zIFTJH4g5Ycz-Q7YIGv-I_ygaR6zsdJtgRvkLh_Mvep-T3ayshDnF2TEUeLBaprvMdLeKjtaLYddP-z3S04KI7OI51RQxVGDQj-z_vDaMX5jYFJvwh9rbS7C2kvv-mm74pk47FRQPkLFKYpA3LVycJP-OCzrfGeYaXerSDcyW9_kuiyzly0mACfVyi8hqI9B8-i5bM6Ka0nDvZ5JM_-Lqpc0LRF7tev3E9U7QpDMEk0OwGtiQiOGEIuNZKnIu0FvRn8__r_ZLzhSjf3RvcfmelYggSAVa0duGzIC6W3STN6dNHq-hA5PI-Odqh-MF38NQdtZ5pmS6Ts1lOdSM6UbzDYoIk/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCelsius ... Before being renamed to honor Anders Celsius in 1948, ... So prior to 1948 tempeatures outside those bounds simply didn't exist, or had to be stated as Fahrenheit or Kelvin? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 07:58:07 +1000, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: >Centigrade was derived from Celsius, however, both described only the >freezing point and boiling point of water at NTP. > If "was derived" implies a historical sequence, I think you have it reversed. >My physics teachers said don't say >100 centigrade. It's outside the >bounds. So physicists use Kelvin. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius ... Before being renamed to honor Anders Celsius in 1948, ... So prior to 1948 tempeatures outside those bounds simply didn't exist, or had to be stated as Fahrenheit or Kelvin? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
"Lb Foot is not a measure of pressure" ... correct. It is a measure of torque. A pound-foot (lbf⋅*ft*) is a unit of torque (a pseudovector). One pound-foot is the torque created by one pound of force acting at a perpendicular distance of one foot from a pivot point. Conversely one pound-foot is the moment about an axis that applies one pound-force at a radius of one foot. Joe On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 10:08 PM Wayne Bickerdike wrote: > Time for us to go back to school. > > Lb Foot is not a measure of pressure, it needs to act on area to be a > measure of pressure. Lbs / square foot/ PSI etc. are common measurements of > pressure (tires etc.). > > In the 60's we were taught poundals as a measure of force, ie the force > required to accelerate a mass of one pound at a rate of one foot per > second per second. > > Thankfully SI came to the rescue by the time I went to college. > Isaac Newton, quintessentially English gets an SI unit, as does Faraday, > Tesla, Curie. Very multicultural... > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 12:44 PM Mike Schwab > wrote: > > > And the metric equivalent is Newton Meters. You can get torque > > wrenches in either measurement, I would think some have both. Some > > bolts will fail if too loose or too tight. > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:31 PM Gibney, Dave wrote: > > > > > > Foot pounds is a measure of pressure > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:29 PM > > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These > > Years? > > > > > > > > Yes, and whyat is lbf? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > > > BY0HMszNaDT!78SA9VzAdbjMTRYvnKQIT6jc0VOHrKWRan9aUIqsjvsI210oVzT > > > > j6BY-5Ot12g$ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on > > > > behalf of Gibney, Dave > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:26 PM > > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These > > Years? > > > > > > > > Actually, the pound is a unit of force in English units. I believe > > weight is > > > > measured in stones. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > > > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:23 PM > > > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These > > Years? > > > > > > > > > > You have the same mass versus weight issue with pound. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > > > > > > > > BY0HMszNaDT!6qfIOAdssnfWNb9bnHdVr6MfJemAcckz1N2FLwezCZtDcak8bJ > > > > > a3JHuDBIGmlQ$ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > > > > > behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:05 PM > > > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These > > Years? > > > > > > > > > > See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all > > > > > standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) > > > > > > > > > > Thank you France. > > > > > > > > > > Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... > > > > > > > > > > (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) > > > > > > > > > > Tony Thigpen > > > > > > > > > > Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: > > > > > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > > &g
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020, at 22:58, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? I have a feeling that things like safety harnesses (for people working at height), fall-arrest systems etc are rated in Newtons etc. It's probably because it's not just the static load of someone dangling on the end of a rope that matters, but the strain they put on it if they've fallen however far before the system tries to arrest their fall. Adverts might not say this though; they might instead say that an item meets such-and-such a use standard. That in turn might dictate that a wearer shouldn't be more than (say) 120 kg nor be falling more than 20m. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
That explains why the term used in the 19th Century was confusing; it has no relevance to the issue of whether the term is limited to temperatures in the range 0-100. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Wayne Bickerdike [wayn...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? WTF? It's true that both used (past tense) the freezing and boiling point of "water" at STP, but since when weren't they defined outside of 0-100?" Because: The centigrade scale was confusing because "centigrade" was also the Spanish and French term for a unit of angular measurement equal to 1/100 of a right angle. When the scale was extended from 0 to 100 degrees for temperature, centigrade was more properly hectograde. The public was largely unaffected by the confusion. Even though the degree Celsius was adopted by international committees in 1948, weather forecasts issued by the BBC continued to use degrees centigrade until February 1985. On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 9:27 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > WTF? It's true that both used (past tense) the freezing and boiling point > of "water" at STP, but since when weren't they defined outside of 0-100? > > Scare quotes because there is no standard for the percent of Deuterium in > the water. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of Wayne Bickerdike [wayn...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:58 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Centigrade was derived from Celsius, however, both described only the > freezing point and boiling point of water at NTP. > > My physics teachers said don't say >100 centigrade. It's outside the > bounds. So physicists use Kelvin. > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:26 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > Actually, i does, but is not as precise: > > > > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1ZfcTRtyL1fHmGItPj-arpyyhb5EkDhUxhc8INI8z9BhT28rjk7J8JV2395Uwd7sGnpC_G5-WdPEkYaPYMrlh1fItSRJOUCDucUqXK5IOPjKCoC4RfbpCc1ufuEYxlinUM0WiPti_hVwdTYo1ZDI5RpLaTn1egI8jCtSkqHfLm8llGulJJUBk1ep2_bu4jEVyJvZccjCMguX5TP6eLTE2CtooWHn9naE2zF2ERJedlrw2LP0dkgR-DFrpOz7By8t7fYf1tNYFfpdL_FWB-R7Y7xXjlhtiuV8Bg1V6FWgAIiTC_TksQft1PDlIRHGjVUBu0mhbtwK07UF_blEtDFQgdEGWmaB9pTGCU2vwq0y2i3IJqA1m35BuWPympC_mbki5G6k9m9wDvZ_KMV6wap-BOnIkG4CvMdpMRheDkVgxg1ju3hbqn_LZLkKGuLqKxj0z30xjGHfcHsEKDUm037cMww/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtco.com%2Fdifference-between-celsius-and-centigrade-609226 > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > > > ____________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > > of Joe Monk > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:54 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > Kelvin (absolute temperature) is converted from Celsius. Centigrade > doesn't > > exist. > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 13:46 Jackson, Rob > > wrote: > > > > > We have definitely devolved . . . like we always do on this forum. > It's > > > fun though, right? > > > > > > I agree on Celsius. The name disturbs me too. Centigrade is more > > > pleasant for some reason. Reminds me of tardigrade. Now that is > > something > > > we could all ponder and be better off. > > > > > > First Horizon Bank > > > Mainframe Technical Support > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf > > > Of Bob Bridges > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:29 PM > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These > Years? > > > > > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > > > attachments.] > > > > > > I just think the word "Celsius" is ugly; "centigrade" is comparatively > > > euphonious. A personal bias. > > > > > > --- > > > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > > > > /* Do you know what constitutes a "hate crime"? Put your thinking caps > > > on. What tools do we need to determine whether a cr
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
WTF? It's true that both used (past tense) the freezing and boiling point of "water" at STP, but since when weren't they defined outside of 0-100?" Because: The centigrade scale was confusing because "centigrade" was also the Spanish and French term for a unit of angular measurement equal to 1/100 of a right angle. When the scale was extended from 0 to 100 degrees for temperature, centigrade was more properly hectograde. The public was largely unaffected by the confusion. Even though the degree Celsius was adopted by international committees in 1948, weather forecasts issued by the BBC continued to use degrees centigrade until February 1985. On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 9:27 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > WTF? It's true that both used (past tense) the freezing and boiling point > of "water" at STP, but since when weren't they defined outside of 0-100? > > Scare quotes because there is no standard for the percent of Deuterium in > the water. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of Wayne Bickerdike [wayn...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:58 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Centigrade was derived from Celsius, however, both described only the > freezing point and boiling point of water at NTP. > > My physics teachers said don't say >100 centigrade. It's outside the > bounds. So physicists use Kelvin. > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:26 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > Actually, i does, but is not as precise: > > > > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1ZfcTRtyL1fHmGItPj-arpyyhb5EkDhUxhc8INI8z9BhT28rjk7J8JV2395Uwd7sGnpC_G5-WdPEkYaPYMrlh1fItSRJOUCDucUqXK5IOPjKCoC4RfbpCc1ufuEYxlinUM0WiPti_hVwdTYo1ZDI5RpLaTn1egI8jCtSkqHfLm8llGulJJUBk1ep2_bu4jEVyJvZccjCMguX5TP6eLTE2CtooWHn9naE2zF2ERJedlrw2LP0dkgR-DFrpOz7By8t7fYf1tNYFfpdL_FWB-R7Y7xXjlhtiuV8Bg1V6FWgAIiTC_TksQft1PDlIRHGjVUBu0mhbtwK07UF_blEtDFQgdEGWmaB9pTGCU2vwq0y2i3IJqA1m35BuWPympC_mbki5G6k9m9wDvZ_KMV6wap-BOnIkG4CvMdpMRheDkVgxg1ju3hbqn_LZLkKGuLqKxj0z30xjGHfcHsEKDUm037cMww/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtco.com%2Fdifference-between-celsius-and-centigrade-609226 > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > > > ____________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > > of Joe Monk > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:54 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > Kelvin (absolute temperature) is converted from Celsius. Centigrade > doesn't > > exist. > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 13:46 Jackson, Rob > > wrote: > > > > > We have definitely devolved . . . like we always do on this forum. > It's > > > fun though, right? > > > > > > I agree on Celsius. The name disturbs me too. Centigrade is more > > > pleasant for some reason. Reminds me of tardigrade. Now that is > > something > > > we could all ponder and be better off. > > > > > > First Horizon Bank > > > Mainframe Technical Support > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf > > > Of Bob Bridges > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:29 PM > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These > Years? > > > > > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > > > attachments.] > > > > > > I just think the word "Celsius" is ugly; "centigrade" is comparatively > > > euphonious. A personal bias. > > > > > > --- > > > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > > > > /* Do you know what constitutes a "hate crime"? Put your thinking caps > > > on. What tools do we need to determine whether a crime was motivated > by > > > hate or prejudice? Answer: We need thought police. -from "See, I Told > > You > > > So" by Rush Limbaugh */ > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On > > > Behalf Of Joe Monk > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:17 > > > > > > Centigrade? It always thought it's Celsius. :) > > > > > > ---
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Time for us to go back to school. Lb Foot is not a measure of pressure, it needs to act on area to be a measure of pressure. Lbs / square foot/ PSI etc. are common measurements of pressure (tires etc.). In the 60's we were taught poundals as a measure of force, ie the force required to accelerate a mass of one pound at a rate of one foot per second per second. Thankfully SI came to the rescue by the time I went to college. Isaac Newton, quintessentially English gets an SI unit, as does Faraday, Tesla, Curie. Very multicultural... On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 12:44 PM Mike Schwab wrote: > And the metric equivalent is Newton Meters. You can get torque > wrenches in either measurement, I would think some have both. Some > bolts will fail if too loose or too tight. > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:31 PM Gibney, Dave wrote: > > > > Foot pounds is a measure of pressure > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:29 PM > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These > Years? > > > > > > Yes, and whyat is lbf? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > > BY0HMszNaDT!78SA9VzAdbjMTRYvnKQIT6jc0VOHrKWRan9aUIqsjvsI210oVzT > > > j6BY-5Ot12g$ > > > > > > > > > ________________________ > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on > > > behalf of Gibney, Dave > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:26 PM > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These > Years? > > > > > > Actually, the pound is a unit of force in English units. I believe > weight is > > > measured in stones. > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:23 PM > > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These > Years? > > > > > > > > You have the same mass versus weight issue with pound. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > > > > > > BY0HMszNaDT!6qfIOAdssnfWNb9bnHdVr6MfJemAcckz1N2FLwezCZtDcak8bJ > > > > a3JHuDBIGmlQ$ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > > > > behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:05 PM > > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These > Years? > > > > > > > > See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all > > > > standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) > > > > > > > > Thank you France. > > > > > > > > Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... > > > > > > > > (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) > > > > > > > > Tony Thigpen > > > > > > > > Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: > > > > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit > of mass, > > > not > > > > of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). > > > > >> > > > > > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an > idiomatic > > > > > alternative?: > > > > > o ... how many kg I mass? > > > > > o ... how many kgF I weigh? > > > > > o Other (specify)? > > > > > > > > > > Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? > > > > > > > > > > (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for > ∆v? > > > > Ugh!) > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >> From: Jackson, Rob > > > > >&
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
And the metric equivalent is Newton Meters. You can get torque wrenches in either measurement, I would think some have both. Some bolts will fail if too loose or too tight. On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:31 PM Gibney, Dave wrote: > > Foot pounds is a measure of pressure > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:29 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > Yes, and whyat is lbf? > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > BY0HMszNaDT!78SA9VzAdbjMTRYvnKQIT6jc0VOHrKWRan9aUIqsjvsI210oVzT > > j6BY-5Ot12g$ > > > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on > > behalf of Gibney, Dave > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:26 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > Actually, the pound is a unit of force in English units. I believe weight is > > measured in stones. > > > > > > > -Original Message----- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:23 PM > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > > > You have the same mass versus weight issue with pound. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > > > > BY0HMszNaDT!6qfIOAdssnfWNb9bnHdVr6MfJemAcckz1N2FLwezCZtDcak8bJ > > > a3JHuDBIGmlQ$ > > > > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > > > behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:05 PM > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > > > See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all > > > standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) > > > > > > Thank you France. > > > > > > Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... > > > > > > (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) > > > > > > Tony Thigpen > > > > > > Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: > > > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > > > > > >> I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of > > > >> mass, > > not > > > of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). > > > >> > > > > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic > > > > alternative?: > > > > o ... how many kg I mass? > > > > o ... how many kgF I weigh? > > > > o Other (specify)? > > > > > > > > Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? > > > > > > > > (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? > > > Ugh!) > > > > > > > >> > > > >> From: Jackson, Rob > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM > > > >> > > > >> -Original Message- > > > >> From: Bob Bridges > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM > > > >> > > > >> [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > > > attachments.] > > > >> > > > >> ... I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. > > > > > > > > -- gil > > > > > > > > -- > > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- > > MAIN > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > se
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
One Stone is 14 pounds on Earth's Surface on average. On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 7:27 PM Gibney, Dave wrote: > > Actually, the pound is a unit of force in English units. I believe weight is > measured in stones. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:23 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > You have the same mass versus weight issue with pound. > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > BY0HMszNaDT!6qfIOAdssnfWNb9bnHdVr6MfJemAcckz1N2FLwezCZtDcak8bJ > > a3JHuDBIGmlQ$ > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > > behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:05 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all > > standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) > > > > Thank you France. > > > > Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... > > > > (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) > > > > Tony Thigpen > > > > Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: > > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > > > >> I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of > > >> mass, not > > of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). > > >> > > > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic > > > alternative?: > > > o ... how many kg I mass? > > > o ... how many kgF I weigh? > > > o Other (specify)? > > > > > > Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? > > > > > > (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? > > Ugh!) > > > > > >> > > >> From: Jackson, Rob > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM > > >> > > >> -Original Message- > > >> From: Bob Bridges > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM > > >> > > >> [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > > attachments.] > > >> > > >> ... I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. > > > > > > -- gil > > > > > > -- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Horse Power?? Tony Thigpen Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 10:20 PM: On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:31:03 +, Gibney, Dave wrote: Foot pounds is a measure of pressure ??? Torque? -Original Message- From: Seymour J Metz Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:29 PM Yes, and whyat is lbf? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Thu, 23 Jul 2020 00:31:03 +, Gibney, Dave wrote: >Foot pounds is a measure of pressure > ??? Torque? >> -Original Message- >> From: Seymour J Metz >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:29 PM >> >> Yes, and whyat is lbf? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Have to admit that I haven't been in a physics class in 40 years. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:35 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_(force) > __;!!JmPEgBY0HMszNaDT!7i7tDktIvhYFOl7W3Lc4g1gb3zY9Z96bxOUHwZei8_8 > SEWGN6VBnx0KF3Z56hg$ > > foot-pound force is ft⋅lbf or ft⋅lb > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > BY0HMszNaDT!7i7tDktIvhYFOl7W3Lc4g1gb3zY9Z96bxOUHwZei8_8SEWGN6V > Bnx0KJcGj9fQ$ > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on > behalf of Gibney, Dave > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:31 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Foot pounds is a measure of pressure > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:29 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > Yes, and whyat is lbf? > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > > BY0HMszNaDT!78SA9VzAdbjMTRYvnKQIT6jc0VOHrKWRan9aUIqsjvsI210oVzT > > j6BY-5Ot12g$ > > > > > > ________________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on > > behalf of Gibney, Dave > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:26 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > Actually, the pound is a unit of force in English units. I believe weight is > > measured in stones. > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > On > > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:23 PM > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > > > You have the same mass versus weight issue with pound. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > > > > > BY0HMszNaDT!6qfIOAdssnfWNb9bnHdVr6MfJemAcckz1N2FLwezCZtDcak8bJ > > > a3JHuDBIGmlQ$ > > > > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > > > behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:05 PM > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > > > See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all > > > standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) > > > > > > Thank you France. > > > > > > Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... > > > > > > (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) > > > > > > Tony Thigpen > > > > > > Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: > > > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > > > > > >> I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of > > > >> mass, > > not > > > of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). > > > >> > > > > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic > > > > alternative?: > > > > o ... how many kg I mass? > > > > o ... how many kgF I weigh? > > > > o Other (specify)? > > > > > > > > Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? > > > > > > > > (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? > > > Ugh!) > > > > > > > >> > > > >> From: Jackson, Rob > > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM > > > >> > > > >> -Original Message- > > > >> From: Bob Bridges > > > >> Sent:
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_(force) foot-pound force is ft⋅lbf or ft⋅lb -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Gibney, Dave Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:31 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Foot pounds is a measure of pressure > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:29 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Yes, and whyat is lbf? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > BY0HMszNaDT!78SA9VzAdbjMTRYvnKQIT6jc0VOHrKWRan9aUIqsjvsI210oVzT > j6BY-5Ot12g$ > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on > behalf of Gibney, Dave > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:26 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Actually, the pound is a unit of force in English units. I believe weight is > measured in stones. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:23 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > You have the same mass versus weight issue with pound. > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > > BY0HMszNaDT!6qfIOAdssnfWNb9bnHdVr6MfJemAcckz1N2FLwezCZtDcak8bJ > > a3JHuDBIGmlQ$ > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > > behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:05 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all > > standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) > > > > Thank you France. > > > > Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... > > > > (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) > > > > Tony Thigpen > > > > Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: > > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > > > >> I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of > > >> mass, > not > > of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). > > >> > > > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic > > > alternative?: > > > o ... how many kg I mass? > > > o ... how many kgF I weigh? > > > o Other (specify)? > > > > > > Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? > > > > > > (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? > > Ugh!) > > > > > >> > > >> From: Jackson, Rob > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM > > >> > > >> -Original Message- > > >> From: Bob Bridges > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM > > >> > > >> [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > > attachments.] > > >> > > >> ... I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. > > > > > > -- gil > > > > > > -- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- > MAIN > > > > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Foot pounds is a measure of pressure > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:29 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Yes, and whyat is lbf? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > BY0HMszNaDT!78SA9VzAdbjMTRYvnKQIT6jc0VOHrKWRan9aUIqsjvsI210oVzT > j6BY-5Ot12g$ > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on > behalf of Gibney, Dave > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:26 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Actually, the pound is a unit of force in English units. I believe weight is > measured in stones. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:23 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > You have the same mass versus weight issue with pound. > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > > > BY0HMszNaDT!6qfIOAdssnfWNb9bnHdVr6MfJemAcckz1N2FLwezCZtDcak8bJ > > a3JHuDBIGmlQ$ > > > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > > behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:05 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all > > standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) > > > > Thank you France. > > > > Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... > > > > (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) > > > > Tony Thigpen > > > > Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: > > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > > > >> I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of > > >> mass, > not > > of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). > > >> > > > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic > > > alternative?: > > > o ... how many kg I mass? > > > o ... how many kgF I weigh? > > > o Other (specify)? > > > > > > Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? > > > > > > (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? > > Ugh!) > > > > > >> > > >> From: Jackson, Rob > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM > > >> > > >> -Original Message- > > >> From: Bob Bridges > > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM > > >> > > >> [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > > attachments.] > > >> > > >> ... I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. > > > > > > -- gil > > > > > > -- > > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM- > MAIN > > > > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Yes, and whyat is lbf? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Gibney, Dave Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:26 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Actually, the pound is a unit of force in English units. I believe weight is measured in stones. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:23 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > You have the same mass versus weight issue with pound. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > BY0HMszNaDT!6qfIOAdssnfWNb9bnHdVr6MfJemAcckz1N2FLwezCZtDcak8bJ > a3JHuDBIGmlQ$ > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:05 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all > standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) > > Thank you France. > > Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... > > (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) > > Tony Thigpen > > Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > >> I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of mass, > >> not > of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). > >> > > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic > > alternative?: > > o ... how many kg I mass? > > o ... how many kgF I weigh? > > o Other (specify)? > > > > Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? > > > > (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? > Ugh!) > > > >> > >> From: Jackson, Rob > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Bob Bridges > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM > >> > >> [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > attachments.] > >> > >> ... I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. > > > > -- gil > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Actually, the pound is a unit of force in English units. I believe weight is measured in stones. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:23 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > You have the same mass versus weight issue with pound. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!JmPEg > BY0HMszNaDT!6qfIOAdssnfWNb9bnHdVr6MfJemAcckz1N2FLwezCZtDcak8bJ > a3JHuDBIGmlQ$ > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on > behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:05 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all > standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) > > Thank you France. > > Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... > > (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) > > Tony Thigpen > > Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > > > >> I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of mass, > >> not > of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). > >> > > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic > > alternative?: > > o ... how many kg I mass? > > o ... how many kgF I weigh? > > o Other (specify)? > > > > Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? > > > > (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? > Ugh!) > > > >> > >> From: Jackson, Rob > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Bob Bridges > >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM > >> > >> [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > attachments.] > >> > >> ... I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. > > > > -- gil > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
I would prefer "how many kgF I weigh"; I definitely don't like Newtons as a weight unit for, e.g., medicine, sports. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:58 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of mass, not >of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic alternative?: o ... how many kg I mass? o ... how many kgF I weigh? o Other (specify)? Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? Ugh!) > >From: Jackson, Rob >Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM > >-Original Message- >From: Bob Bridges >Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM > >[External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] > >... I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
WTF? It's true that both used (past tense) the freezing and boiling point of "water" at STP, but since when weren't they defined outside of 0-100? Scare quotes because there is no standard for the percent of Deuterium in the water. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Wayne Bickerdike [wayn...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 5:58 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Centigrade was derived from Celsius, however, both described only the freezing point and boiling point of water at NTP. My physics teachers said don't say >100 centigrade. It's outside the bounds. So physicists use Kelvin. On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:26 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > Actually, i does, but is not as precise: > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1ZfcTRtyL1fHmGItPj-arpyyhb5EkDhUxhc8INI8z9BhT28rjk7J8JV2395Uwd7sGnpC_G5-WdPEkYaPYMrlh1fItSRJOUCDucUqXK5IOPjKCoC4RfbpCc1ufuEYxlinUM0WiPti_hVwdTYo1ZDI5RpLaTn1egI8jCtSkqHfLm8llGulJJUBk1ep2_bu4jEVyJvZccjCMguX5TP6eLTE2CtooWHn9naE2zF2ERJedlrw2LP0dkgR-DFrpOz7By8t7fYf1tNYFfpdL_FWB-R7Y7xXjlhtiuV8Bg1V6FWgAIiTC_TksQft1PDlIRHGjVUBu0mhbtwK07UF_blEtDFQgdEGWmaB9pTGCU2vwq0y2i3IJqA1m35BuWPympC_mbki5G6k9m9wDvZ_KMV6wap-BOnIkG4CvMdpMRheDkVgxg1ju3hbqn_LZLkKGuLqKxj0z30xjGHfcHsEKDUm037cMww/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtco.com%2Fdifference-between-celsius-and-centigrade-609226 > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > of Joe Monk > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:54 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Kelvin (absolute temperature) is converted from Celsius. Centigrade doesn't > exist. > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 13:46 Jackson, Rob > wrote: > > > We have definitely devolved . . . like we always do on this forum. It's > > fun though, right? > > > > I agree on Celsius. The name disturbs me too. Centigrade is more > > pleasant for some reason. Reminds me of tardigrade. Now that is > something > > we could all ponder and be better off. > > > > First Horizon Bank > > Mainframe Technical Support > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > > Of Bob Bridges > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:29 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > > attachments.] > > > > I just think the word "Celsius" is ugly; "centigrade" is comparatively > > euphonious. A personal bias. > > > > --- > > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > > /* Do you know what constitutes a "hate crime"? Put your thinking caps > > on. What tools do we need to determine whether a crime was motivated by > > hate or prejudice? Answer: We need thought police. -from "See, I Told > You > > So" by Rush Limbaugh */ > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Joe Monk > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:17 > > > > Centigrade? It always thought it's Celsius. :) > > > > --- On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM Bob Bridges > > wrote: > > > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without > > > having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are > > > cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Jackson, Rob > > > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 > > > > > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but > > > I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every > > > time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life > > > is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, > > > since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in > > > Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at > > > zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I > > guess I never cared. > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive acce
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
You have the same mass versus weight issue with pound. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 6:05 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) Thank you France. Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) Tony Thigpen Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: > On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: > >> I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of mass, >> not of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). >> > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic > alternative?: > o ... how many kg I mass? > o ... how many kgF I weigh? > o Other (specify)? > > Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? > > (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? Ugh!) > >> >> From: Jackson, Rob >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Bob Bridges >> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM >> >> [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening >> attachments.] >> >> ... I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Jul 22, 2020, at 4:58 PM, Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? Ugh!) > > From wikipedia: “The most common unit for specific impulse is the second, as values are identical regardless of whether the calculations are done in SI, imperial, or customary units. Nearly all manufacturers quote their engine performance in seconds, and the unit is also useful for specifying aircraft engine performance.[6] “The use of metres per second to specify effective exhaust velocity is also reasonably common. The unit is intuitive when describing rocket engines, although the effective exhaust speed of the engines may be significantly different from the actual exhaust speed, especially in gas-generator cycle engines. For airbreathing jet engines, the effective exhaust velocity is not physically meaningful, although it can be used for comparison purposes.[7] “Meters per second are numerically equivalent to Newton-seconds per kg (N·s/kg), and SI measurements of specific impulse can be written in terms of either units interchangeably.[citation needed]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_impulse -- Pew, Curtis G curtis@austin.utexas.edu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
See! SI is a "FANTASTIC" improvement over old stuff. It's all standardized and everyone talks in the same way. (NOT!) Thank you France. Vive la pound, and inch, and mile... (This post was posted with sarcastic mode set to "on".) Tony Thigpen Paul Gilmartin wrote on 7/22/20 5:58 PM: On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of mass, not of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic alternative?: o ... how many kg I mass? o ... how many kgF I weigh? o Other (specify)? Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? Ugh!) From: Jackson, Rob Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM -Original Message- From: Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] ... I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Centigrade was derived from Celsius, however, both described only the freezing point and boiling point of water at NTP. My physics teachers said don't say >100 centigrade. It's outside the bounds. So physicists use Kelvin. On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 7:26 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > Actually, i does, but is not as precise: > > https://www.thoughtco.com/difference-between-celsius-and-centigrade-609226 > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > of Joe Monk > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:54 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Kelvin (absolute temperature) is converted from Celsius. Centigrade doesn't > exist. > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 13:46 Jackson, Rob > wrote: > > > We have definitely devolved . . . like we always do on this forum. It's > > fun though, right? > > > > I agree on Celsius. The name disturbs me too. Centigrade is more > > pleasant for some reason. Reminds me of tardigrade. Now that is > something > > we could all ponder and be better off. > > > > First Horizon Bank > > Mainframe Technical Support > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > > Of Bob Bridges > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:29 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > > attachments.] > > > > I just think the word "Celsius" is ugly; "centigrade" is comparatively > > euphonious. A personal bias. > > > > --- > > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > > /* Do you know what constitutes a "hate crime"? Put your thinking caps > > on. What tools do we need to determine whether a crime was motivated by > > hate or prejudice? Answer: We need thought police. -from "See, I Told > You > > So" by Rush Limbaugh */ > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > > Behalf Of Joe Monk > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:17 > > > > Centigrade? It always thought it's Celsius. :) > > > > --- On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM Bob Bridges > > wrote: > > > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without > > > having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are > > > cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Jackson, Rob > > > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 > > > > > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but > > > I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every > > > time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life > > > is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, > > > since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in > > > Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at > > > zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I > > guess I never cared. > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email > > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > Confidentiality notice: > > This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally > > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this > > message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any > > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is > strictly > > prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please > immediately > > notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. > > > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Wayne V. Bickerdike -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020 17:05:29 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of mass, not >of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). > Which of the following would you envision and welcome as an idiomatic alternative?: o ... how many kg I mass? o ... how many kgF I weigh? o Other (specify)? Should an outfitter sell climbing ropes rated in Newtons? (BTW, what's the SI unit of Specific Impulse? And the formula for ∆v? Ugh!) > >From: Jackson, Rob >Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM > >-Original Message- >From: Bob Bridges >Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM > >[External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] > >... I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Actually, i does, but is not as precise: https://www.thoughtco.com/difference-between-celsius-and-centigrade-609226 -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Joe Monk Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 4:54 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Kelvin (absolute temperature) is converted from Celsius. Centigrade doesn't exist. On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 13:46 Jackson, Rob wrote: > We have definitely devolved . . . like we always do on this forum. It's > fun though, right? > > I agree on Celsius. The name disturbs me too. Centigrade is more > pleasant for some reason. Reminds me of tardigrade. Now that is something > we could all ponder and be better off. > > First Horizon Bank > Mainframe Technical Support > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Bob Bridges > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:29 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > attachments.] > > I just think the word "Celsius" is ugly; "centigrade" is comparatively > euphonious. A personal bias. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* Do you know what constitutes a "hate crime"? Put your thinking caps > on. What tools do we need to determine whether a crime was motivated by > hate or prejudice? Answer: We need thought police. -from "See, I Told You > So" by Rush Limbaugh */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Joe Monk > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:17 > > Centigrade? It always thought it's Celsius. :) > > --- On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM Bob Bridges > wrote: > > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without > > having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are > > cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jackson, Rob > > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 > > > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but > > I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every > > time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life > > is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, > > since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in > > Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at > > zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I > guess I never cared. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > Confidentiality notice: > This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this > message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Kelvin (absolute temperature) is converted from Celsius. Centigrade doesn't exist. On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 13:46 Jackson, Rob wrote: > We have definitely devolved . . . like we always do on this forum. It's > fun though, right? > > I agree on Celsius. The name disturbs me too. Centigrade is more > pleasant for some reason. Reminds me of tardigrade. Now that is something > we could all ponder and be better off. > > First Horizon Bank > Mainframe Technical Support > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Bob Bridges > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:29 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > attachments.] > > I just think the word "Celsius" is ugly; "centigrade" is comparatively > euphonious. A personal bias. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* Do you know what constitutes a "hate crime"? Put your thinking caps > on. What tools do we need to determine whether a crime was motivated by > hate or prejudice? Answer: We need thought police. -from "See, I Told You > So" by Rush Limbaugh */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Joe Monk > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:17 > > Centigrade? It always thought it's Celsius. :) > > --- On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM Bob Bridges > wrote: > > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without > > having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are > > cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jackson, Rob > > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 > > > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but > > I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every > > time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life > > is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, > > since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in > > Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at > > zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I > guess I never cared. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > Confidentiality notice: > This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this > message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
The measure of weight is a kgf. Kilogram force. It is a kilogram multiplied by 9.8 (gravity force). But in shorthand we say kilogram. On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 15:36 Pommier, Rex wrote: > A kilogram may not technically be a weight, but if not the whole world, at > least a large percentage of the world uses it as such. Looking at a > package of dried fruit in front of me and it says net weight 340 grams > which I believe translates to .34 kilograms. > > Rex > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Jackson, Rob > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 1:51 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [External] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All > These Years? > > A kilogram is not a weight, Bob. Never has been; never will be. I'm not > one to be anal-retentive. This point is more important than anything like > that. > > I like your quote. That was a wise person. > > First Horizon Bank > Mainframe Technical Support > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Bob Bridges > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:41 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > attachments.] > > Who doesn't? You may not, but lots of other people do. What am I > missing, here? > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, > butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance > accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give > orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch > manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die > gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Lazarus Long */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Jackson, Rob > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:22 > > My high school physics teacher would be rolling in his grave about now. > You don't weigh anything in kilograms. :) > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Bob Bridges > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM > > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to > think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are > warm, 30s are hot. > > I get kilometers but I think in miles. For short measurements I like > centimeters and millimeters, but I couldn't tell you how tall I am in cm. > I'm happy in either pounds or kilos, but I'd have to calculate to tell you > how many kg I weigh. But centigrade makes complete sense to me. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > Confidentiality notice: > This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this > message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email > to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from > disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is > not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for > delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action > omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If > you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately > by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, > whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
A kilogram may not technically be a weight, but if not the whole world, at least a large percentage of the world uses it as such. Looking at a package of dried fruit in front of me and it says net weight 340 grams which I believe translates to .34 kilograms. Rex -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 1:51 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: [External] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? A kilogram is not a weight, Bob. Never has been; never will be. I'm not one to be anal-retentive. This point is more important than anything like that. I like your quote. That was a wise person. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] Who doesn't? You may not, but lots of other people do. What am I missing, here? --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Lazarus Long */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:22 My high school physics teacher would be rolling in his grave about now. You don't weigh anything in kilograms. :) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. I get kilometers but I think in miles. For short measurements I like centimeters and millimeters, but I couldn't tell you how tall I am in cm. I'm happy in either pounds or kilos, but I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. But centigrade makes complete sense to me. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information contained in this message is confidential, protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, copying, or any action taken or action omitted in reliance on it, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Jul 22, 2020, at 1:41 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: > > Who doesn't? You may not, but lots of other people do. What am I missing, > here? As long as you stay near the earth’s surface, you can treat mass and weight as equivalent. But kilograms measure mass, not weight. If I go into orbit around the earth, my weight has gone to zero, but my mass hasn’t changed. -- Pew, Curtis G curtis@austin.utexas.edu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Wed, 22 Jul 2020, at 19:41, Bob Bridges wrote: > Who doesn't? You may not, but lots of other people do. What am I missing, > here? That kg is a measure of mass, ie how much there is of something. One kg of sugar on earth is the same amount as 1 kg on the moon. Weight depends on gravity. You'd weigh much less on the moon. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
From wiki: "Anders Celsius, 27 November 1701 – 25 April 1744) was a Swedish astronomer, physicist and mathematician. He was professor of astronomy at Uppsala University from 1730 to 1744, but traveled from 1732 to 1735 visiting notable observatories in Germany, Italy and France. He founded the Uppsala Astronomical Observatory in 1741, and in 1742 proposed (an inverted form of) the Centigrade temperature scale which was later renamed Celsius in his honor." -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Jesse 1 Robinson [jesse1.robin...@sce.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 3:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? When I was a kid a hundred years ago, the canonical term was 'centigrade', based I assumed on the 100 degree span between the freezing and boiling points of water. The term was logical and fit into a world view that included metric measurements and decimal currency. And who the heck was Celsius anyway? Could Ray Bradbury have found a publisher for "Celsius 232.778"? . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:46 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL We have definitely devolved . . . like we always do on this forum. It's fun though, right? I agree on Celsius. The name disturbs me too. Centigrade is more pleasant for some reason. Reminds me of tardigrade. Now that is something we could all ponder and be better off. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:29 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] I just think the word "Celsius" is ugly; "centigrade" is comparatively euphonious. A personal bias. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Do you know what constitutes a "hate crime"? Put your thinking caps on. What tools do we need to determine whether a crime was motivated by hate or prejudice? Answer: We need thought police. -from "See, I Told You So" by Rush Limbaugh */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Monk Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:17 Centigrade? It always thought it's Celsius. :) --- On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM Bob Bridges wrote: > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without > having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are > cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. > > -Original Message- > From: Jackson, Rob > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but > I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every > time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life > is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, > since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in > Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at > zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I > never cared. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
When I was a kid a hundred years ago, the canonical term was 'centigrade', based I assumed on the 100 degree span between the freezing and boiling points of water. The term was logical and fit into a world view that included metric measurements and decimal currency. And who the heck was Celsius anyway? Could Ray Bradbury have found a publisher for "Celsius 232.778"? . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 11:46 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL We have definitely devolved . . . like we always do on this forum. It's fun though, right? I agree on Celsius. The name disturbs me too. Centigrade is more pleasant for some reason. Reminds me of tardigrade. Now that is something we could all ponder and be better off. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:29 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] I just think the word "Celsius" is ugly; "centigrade" is comparatively euphonious. A personal bias. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Do you know what constitutes a "hate crime"? Put your thinking caps on. What tools do we need to determine whether a crime was motivated by hate or prejudice? Answer: We need thought police. -from "See, I Told You So" by Rush Limbaugh */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Monk Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:17 Centigrade? It always thought it's Celsius. :) --- On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM Bob Bridges wrote: > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without > having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are > cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. > > -Original Message- > From: Jackson, Rob > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but > I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every > time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life > is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, > since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in > Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at > zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I > never cared. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
*98.6 On 2020-07-22 14:38, Bob Bridges wrote: For weather I don't feel the need to distinguish between 67°F and 68°F. "High 60s" is close enough for most conversations. I suppose you already know this, but when someone (I forget who) first worked out the normal human temperature, he measured a number of people and arrived at an average of 37°C, plus or minus a few degrees. 37°C got translated to 96.6°F, which became a way-too-precise number adhered to by way-too-many moms. "99! You have a temperature! Get to bed!" --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it. -Sam Levenson */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Spiegel Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:22 Yeah, except that Fahrenheit degrees are smaller. For the same accuracy, you'd have to resort to digits to the right of the decimal point. Feh! --- On 2020-07-22 12:15, Bob Bridges wrote: Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Shirley 98.6. Wiki claims "The normal human body temperature range is typically stated as 36.5–37.5 °C (97.7–99.5 °F)." -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:38 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? For weather I don't feel the need to distinguish between 67°F and 68°F. "High 60s" is close enough for most conversations. I suppose you already know this, but when someone (I forget who) first worked out the normal human temperature, he measured a number of people and arrived at an average of 37°C, plus or minus a few degrees. 37°C got translated to 96.6°F, which became a way-too-precise number adhered to by way-too-many moms. "99! You have a temperature! Get to bed!" --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it. -Sam Levenson */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Spiegel Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:22 Yeah, except that Fahrenheit degrees are smaller. For the same accuracy, you'd have to resort to digits to the right of the decimal point. Feh! --- On 2020-07-22 12:15, Bob Bridges wrote: > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to > think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are > warm, 30s are hot. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
A kilogram is not a weight, Bob. Never has been; never will be. I'm not one to be anal-retentive. This point is more important than anything like that. I like your quote. That was a wise person. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] Who doesn't? You may not, but lots of other people do. What am I missing, here? --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Lazarus Long */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:22 My high school physics teacher would be rolling in his grave about now. You don't weigh anything in kilograms. :) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. I get kilometers but I think in miles. For short measurements I like centimeters and millimeters, but I couldn't tell you how tall I am in cm. I'm happy in either pounds or kilos, but I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. But centigrade makes complete sense to me. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
We have definitely devolved . . . like we always do on this forum. It's fun though, right? I agree on Celsius. The name disturbs me too. Centigrade is more pleasant for some reason. Reminds me of tardigrade. Now that is something we could all ponder and be better off. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 2:29 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] I just think the word "Celsius" is ugly; "centigrade" is comparatively euphonious. A personal bias. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Do you know what constitutes a "hate crime"? Put your thinking caps on. What tools do we need to determine whether a crime was motivated by hate or prejudice? Answer: We need thought police. -from "See, I Told You So" by Rush Limbaugh */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Monk Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:17 Centigrade? It always thought it's Celsius. :) --- On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM Bob Bridges wrote: > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without > having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are > cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. > > -Original Message- > From: Jackson, Rob > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but > I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every > time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life > is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, > since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in > Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at > zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I > never cared. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Who doesn't? You may not, but lots of other people do. What am I missing, here? --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Lazarus Long */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:22 My high school physics teacher would be rolling in his grave about now. You don't weigh anything in kilograms. :) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. I get kilometers but I think in miles. For short measurements I like centimeters and millimeters, but I couldn't tell you how tall I am in cm. I'm happy in either pounds or kilos, but I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. But centigrade makes complete sense to me. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
For weather I don't feel the need to distinguish between 67°F and 68°F. "High 60s" is close enough for most conversations. I suppose you already know this, but when someone (I forget who) first worked out the normal human temperature, he measured a number of people and arrived at an average of 37°C, plus or minus a few degrees. 37°C got translated to 96.6°F, which became a way-too-precise number adhered to by way-too-many moms. "99! You have a temperature! Get to bed!" --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it. -Sam Levenson */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Spiegel Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:22 Yeah, except that Fahrenheit degrees are smaller. For the same accuracy, you'd have to resort to digits to the right of the decimal point. Feh! --- On 2020-07-22 12:15, Bob Bridges wrote: > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to > think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are > warm, 30s are hot. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
I just think the word "Celsius" is ugly; "centigrade" is comparatively euphonious. A personal bias. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Do you know what constitutes a "hate crime"? Put your thinking caps on. What tools do we need to determine whether a crime was motivated by hate or prejudice? Answer: We need thought police. -from "See, I Told You So" by Rush Limbaugh */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Monk Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:17 Centigrade? It always thought it's Celsius. :) --- On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM Bob Bridges wrote: > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to > think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are > warm, 30s are hot. > > -Original Message- > From: Jackson, Rob > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I > have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I > say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius > degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're > exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than > Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell > you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
I took me a while before I realized that, of course, kg is a unit of mass, not of weight; you weigh tings in kilogram-force (kgf or kgF). -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Jackson, Rob [rwjack...@firsthorizon.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:21 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? My high school physics teacher would be rolling in his grave about now. You don't weigh anything in kilograms. :) First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. I get kilometers but I think in miles. For short measurements I like centimeters and millimeters, but I couldn't tell you how tall I am in cm. I'm happy in either pounds or kilos, but I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. But centigrade makes complete sense to me. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* If you read the New Testament with an Old-Covenant heart, it will be just Law to you. Likewise, if you read the Old Testament with a New-Covenant heart, you will see Christ in all of it. -Rick Joyner, "The Apostolic Ministry" */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add in a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Pm_NdRGjzh-gLPPSLRoo6uIFi2Zmzjn-DhAiYu7AFOvpzg1hS9s3rFWeJDelnUf-NPXN8vCxWk_eonnSq_hkj8tE9FRowi9Ufa1_YWYHDGdb-G5dR5VYahRIvmjnyo-oxSoXI3R_hXxdLU12IVc2vXzxjuZvHmVf4gIALNIWvuih1uzUP7wKDZ5-l6NakML4_k_bIIAWL3nOFjxO7Qa-FVlPiF_bLuF8cP5QGalWWwSedY63qwJVM-ejwaTo4MJfXd_vl8lp-n4uIQ3bRrqdldRDU1SqqDdPYSjEs8MwcbmN4rB5BKw-CtQjqgtAra2O24svgDIV--u1PnIj88J_JHKNi5PDKtFkfS9oEKziIWnTSpwZ5ekmvdoweF4BCKsYy6Ah12hsCqS-vM5yUH-r9LQ4Ft90Fz1wQzSfW7pdM78tePYEyc9jdlgTlRIbJzsLwl0AFzIIRK_fmWD4QLDbyA/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Ftopic%2FImperial-unit P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per fortnight to miles per hour? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: This e-mail message, including any
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Is it time to mind our Ps and Qs yet? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of PINION, RICHARD W. Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:26 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Caution! This message was sent from outside your organization. What about cubits and stadia? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] If we're going to express sympathy for imperial units, I've always thought the furlong was pretty useful. Not so much when you're driving a car, but for walking it works pretty well. Portages in Minnesota and Ontario are measured in rods, but I could never get my head wrapped around them. Besides, I think there are two different rods. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It said "Insert disk #3", but only two will fit. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Pew, Curtis G Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 09:47 For everyday life, though, I think American/Imperial units (and any other traditional systems that may survive elsewhere) have their advantages. They evolved because people found them useful. For example, when I’m cooking I could say 250 milliliters or one cup (they’re close enough for the precision I need) but one cup is simpler. Or if my pedometer says I’ve walked 2000 steps I know I’ve gone about a mile. (“Mile” comes from “mille passuum” = “a thousand of steps”; my pedometer counts left and right as separate steps but for the Romans you had to move both before they counted it.) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
ObColePorter I call 40 °C TDH; in fact, local humidity being what it is, I call 30 °C (86 °F) TDH. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Pew, Curtis G [curtis@austin.utexas.edu] Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:26 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? On Jul 22, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: > > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to > think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are > warm, 30s are hot. If 30s are hot, what do you call 40s? We hit 106°F last week, which is just above 41°C. -- Pew, Curtis G curtis@austin.utexas.edu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Jul 22, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Bob Bridges wrote: > > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to > think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are > warm, 30s are hot. If 30s are hot, what do you call 40s? We hit 106°F last week, which is just above 41°C. -- Pew, Curtis G curtis@austin.utexas.edu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
What about cubits and stadia? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:23 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] If we're going to express sympathy for imperial units, I've always thought the furlong was pretty useful. Not so much when you're driving a car, but for walking it works pretty well. Portages in Minnesota and Ontario are measured in rods, but I could never get my head wrapped around them. Besides, I think there are two different rods. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It said "Insert disk #3", but only two will fit. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Pew, Curtis G Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 09:47 For everyday life, though, I think American/Imperial units (and any other traditional systems that may survive elsewhere) have their advantages. They evolved because people found them useful. For example, when I’m cooking I could say 250 milliliters or one cup (they’re close enough for the precision I need) but one cup is simpler. Or if my pedometer says I’ve walked 2000 steps I know I’ve gone about a mile. (“Mile” comes from “mille passuum” = “a thousand of steps”; my pedometer counts left and right as separate steps but for the Romans you had to move both before they counted it.) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
If we're going to express sympathy for imperial units, I've always thought the furlong was pretty useful. Not so much when you're driving a car, but for walking it works pretty well. Portages in Minnesota and Ontario are measured in rods, but I could never get my head wrapped around them. Besides, I think there are two different rods. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It said "Insert disk #3", but only two will fit. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Pew, Curtis G Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 09:47 For everyday life, though, I think American/Imperial units (and any other traditional systems that may survive elsewhere) have their advantages. They evolved because people found them useful. For example, when I’m cooking I could say 250 milliliters or one cup (they’re close enough for the precision I need) but one cup is simpler. Or if my pedometer says I’ve walked 2000 steps I know I’ve gone about a mile. (“Mile” comes from “mille passuum” = “a thousand of steps”; my pedometer counts left and right as separate steps but for the Romans you had to move both before they counted it.) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
My high school physics teacher would be rolling in his grave about now. You don't weigh anything in kilograms. :) First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2020 12:16 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. I get kilometers but I think in miles. For short measurements I like centimeters and millimeters, but I couldn't tell you how tall I am in cm. I'm happy in either pounds or kilos, but I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. But centigrade makes complete sense to me. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* If you read the New Testament with an Old-Covenant heart, it will be just Law to you. Likewise, if you read the Old Testament with a New-Covenant heart, you will see Christ in all of it. -Rick Joyner, "The Apostolic Ministry" */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add in a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Imperial-unit P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per fortnight to miles per hour? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Yeah, except that Fahrenheit degrees are smaller. For the same accuracy, you'd have to resort to digits to the right of the decimal point. Feh! On 2020-07-22 12:15, Bob Bridges wrote: Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. I get kilometers but I think in miles. For short measurements I like centimeters and millimeters, but I couldn't tell you how tall I am in cm. I'm happy in either pounds or kilos, but I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. But centigrade makes complete sense to me. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* If you read the New Testament with an Old-Covenant heart, it will be just Law to you. Likewise, if you read the Old Testament with a New-Covenant heart, you will see Christ in all of it. -Rick Joyner, "The Apostolic Ministry" */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add in a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. https://eur06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.britannica.com%2Ftopic%2FImperial-unit&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1f08f9d644ff4478e52508d82e5a8d55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637310313750326496&sdata=o2W5RPBIlDxJdEtgYt8W%2BlOzErmp8kN5apiWIkk624A%3D&reserved=0 P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per fortnight to miles per hour? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Centigrade? It always thought it's Celsius. :) Joe On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 11:16 AM Bob Bridges wrote: > Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to > think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are > warm, 30s are hot. > > I get kilometers but I think in miles. For short measurements I like > centimeters and millimeters, but I couldn’t tell you how tall I am in cm. > I'm happy in either pounds or kilos, but I'd have to calculate to tell you > how many kg I weigh. But centigrade makes complete sense to me. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* If you read the New Testament with an Old-Covenant heart, it will be > just > Law to you. Likewise, if you read the Old Testament with a New-Covenant > heart, you will see Christ in all of it. -Rick Joyner, “The Apostolic > Ministry” */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Jackson, Rob > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 > > It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. > > Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in > slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add > in > a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. > > American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is > not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" > no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is > a > beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you > disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things > about > physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid > for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. > > P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. > Imagine that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Imperial-unit > > P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He > absolutely > couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I > don't get it. It is what it is. > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I > have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I > say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius > degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're > exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than > Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell > you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of > Seymour J Metz > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM > > The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all > sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, > fraternité", but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the > English system of units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick > question; it depends on which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? > Can > you convert furlongs per fortnight to miles per hour? > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Interesting; centigrade is the one system I use nowadays without having to think much about it. It's so easy: 0s are cold, 10s are cool, 20s are warm, 30s are hot. I get kilometers but I think in miles. For short measurements I like centimeters and millimeters, but I couldnt tell you how tall I am in cm. I'm happy in either pounds or kilos, but I'd have to calculate to tell you how many kg I weigh. But centigrade makes complete sense to me. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* If you read the New Testament with an Old-Covenant heart, it will be just Law to you. Likewise, if you read the Old Testament with a New-Covenant heart, you will see Christ in all of it. -Rick Joyner, The Apostolic Ministry */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jackson, Rob Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 23:23 It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add in a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Imperial-unit P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per fortnight to miles per hour? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
I wondered whether someone would catch me on that. Yeah, I know AltaVista gave up the ghost a while ago. I still ~think~ "AltaVista"; I type "alta" in the address bar and select Yahoo from the list. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Programmer: We've all heard that the Inuits have 22 different words for snow...the English-speaking sailor has about the same number for "rope" and the carpenter considerably more for "piece of wood"; all three of them have special distinctions for the things that are important in their everyday lives. (And the programmer for "element of storage", come to think of it.) Screenwriter: Actually, screenwriters have 92 words for "gratuitously sexy." -From an email conversation, summer 1998 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of zMan Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 20:20 Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. --- On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: > You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", > capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean > simply that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, > actually. So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that > you were saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were > referring to the internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Not as bad as the pint. I thought I was being short changed when I first ordered a beer in the USA! On 21 Jul 2020, at 10:57 pm, Tom Russell wrote: >> Do we really want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, >> with the >> same name denoting different quantities depending on context? > > I agree with Shmuel. As a Canadian I was always mildly amused that the > Americans had different quarts and gallons from us. They were wrong of > course, but in a naïve way. Their quart was 32 ounces and ours was 40, their > gallon was four quarts and so was ours. However I remember my shock when I > discovered the ounce is different as well. A US fluid ounce is 1.040843 of > our fluid ounces. That just seems so *wrong*.😊 > > G. Tom Russell > “Stay calm. Be brave. Wait for the signs” — Jasper FriendlyBear > “… and remember to leave good news alone.” — Gracie HeavyHand > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
I guess everyone knows I can't type worth a flip. :-) Tony Thigpen Mike Schwab wrote on 7/21/20 4:58 PM: 100 KPM (Kilometers per minute) would be about 6,000 KPH (Kilometers per hour), about Mach 6, or 3 times the speed of the Concorde. On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:24 PM Tony Thigpen wrote: Too many things That context was with regard to driving in Canada and should have been 100 KPM, not 100 knots. :-( Last time I was in Canada, we still were stuck with mostly 55mph limits in USA while Canada seemed to have a standard of 100kpm so I equate the two. My point was that I don't bother to convert. I just use the measurement as presented. Tony Thigpen Pew, Curtis G wrote on 7/21/20 12:28 PM: On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:12 AM, David Spiegel wrote: "... 100 knots is about 55mph ..." Assuming you meant Kilometers/Hour (based upon the context), it's actually 62.5 MPH. Well, if the posted limit is 55 mph, 62.5 mph seems about the right speed to go. 😉 But duck-duck-go tells me 100 knots is 115.078 mph, or 185.2001 km/h. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
100 KPM (Kilometers per minute) would be about 6,000 KPH (Kilometers per hour), about Mach 6, or 3 times the speed of the Concorde. On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:24 PM Tony Thigpen wrote: > Too many things > > That context was with regard to driving in Canada and should have been > 100 KPM, not 100 knots. :-( > > Last time I was in Canada, we still were stuck with mostly 55mph limits > in USA while Canada seemed to have a standard of 100kpm so I equate the > two. > > My point was that I don't bother to convert. I just use the measurement > as presented. > > Tony Thigpen > > Pew, Curtis G wrote on 7/21/20 12:28 PM: > > On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:12 AM, David Spiegel > wrote: > >> > >> "... 100 knots is about 55mph ..." > >> Assuming you meant Kilometers/Hour (based upon the context), it's > actually 62.5 MPH. > >> > > > > Well, if the posted limit is 55 mph, 62.5 mph seems about the right > speed to go. 😉 > > > > But duck-duck-go tells me 100 knots is 115.078 mph, or 185.2001 km/h. > > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
But who believes anything that the NPR says. :-) (As I slap myself in the face for bringing up politics.) Tony Thigpen Jesse 1 Robinson wrote on 7/21/20 3:22 PM: Or not... https://www.npr.org/2013/01/14/169140590/-the-whole-nine-yards-of-what . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL Well, "the whole nine yards" is about cloth, so I guess it fits the two known items. :-) As for things being in SI and not US, but labeled as US, yes, I too am seeing that. If you buy washers (for bolts) at the big box stores, they have larger holes than the ones at the true hardware store. And, they look to actually be metric when you measure them. Also, plywood seems to be a bit "off" on the thickness too. The router bits I used to use to make glue-up dado slots (with plywood going into the slot) are a little off now. Tony Thigpen Jeremy Nicoll wrote on 7/21/20 2:29 PM: On Tue, 21 Jul 2020, at 17:00, Tony Thigpen wrote: It's all perspective and how precise you need to be. And what we are measuring. The only thing I know that is measured in yards is cloth and football. What about "the whole nine yards"? In home improvements, boards and such are measured in feet,inch,16ths. That is it. Not yards,feet,inch,16th. In the UK, stuff is now labelled in cm or mm, but actual sizes of many things haven't changed. And timber sizes are often nominal anyway, eg the size of something before it was planed or sawn. What used to be an 8 foot by 2 foot board is typically now sold as 2400x600. When driving down the road, it's all miles or 1/10 of a mile. We don't say Mile,yard,feet,inch,16th. On motorways etc the countdown markers to where a slip-road starts were supposedly at 100 yard intervals. A quick google suggests they are "at about 100 yard/metre" intervals now, so goodness knows what the actual distances are. But it hardly matters for the purpose of seeing one's approaching the start of the slip. And incidentally both 1/16 and 1/32 were easy to work with (eg in DIY with timber) being, if you like just a bit more and just a bit less than 1 mm. On the other hand if you were machining metal you'd likely have been working in "thou" ie thousandths of an inch. Apparently USAians call that a "mil" - which must be easily confused with millimetre. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Or not... https://www.npr.org/2013/01/14/169140590/-the-whole-nine-yards-of-what . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL Well, "the whole nine yards" is about cloth, so I guess it fits the two known items. :-) As for things being in SI and not US, but labeled as US, yes, I too am seeing that. If you buy washers (for bolts) at the big box stores, they have larger holes than the ones at the true hardware store. And, they look to actually be metric when you measure them. Also, plywood seems to be a bit "off" on the thickness too. The router bits I used to use to make glue-up dado slots (with plywood going into the slot) are a little off now. Tony Thigpen Jeremy Nicoll wrote on 7/21/20 2:29 PM: > On Tue, 21 Jul 2020, at 17:00, Tony Thigpen wrote: >> It's all perspective and how precise you need to be. And what we are >> measuring. >> >> The only thing I know that is measured in yards is cloth and football. > > What about "the whole nine yards"? > > >> In home improvements, boards and such are measured in feet,inch,16ths. >> That is it. Not yards,feet,inch,16th. > > In the UK, stuff is now labelled in cm or mm, but actual sizes of many > things haven't changed. And timber sizes are often nominal anyway, eg > the size of something before it was planed or sawn. > > What used to be an 8 foot by 2 foot board is typically now sold as > 2400x600. > > >> When driving down the road, it's all miles or 1/10 of a mile. We >> don't say Mile,yard,feet,inch,16th. > > On motorways etc the countdown markers to where a slip-road starts > were supposedly at 100 yard intervals. A quick google suggests they > are "at about 100 yard/metre" intervals now, so goodness knows what > the actual distances are. But it hardly matters for the purpose of > seeing one's approaching the start of the slip. > > > And incidentally both 1/16 and 1/32 were easy to work with (eg in DIY > with timber) being, if you like just a bit more and just a bit less > than 1 mm. > > On the other hand if you were machining metal you'd likely have been > working in "thou" ie thousandths of an inch. Apparently USAians call > that a "mil" - which must be easily confused with millimetre. > > See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
It's been a very long time since I drove in Canada (BC). What I noticed was that the yellow, recommended speed thought the upcoming curve, really meant go that speed through the curve. Unlike ours in the US where they are very much advisory. > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Tony Thigpen > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:25 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Too many things > > That context was with regard to driving in Canada and should have been > 100 KPM, not 100 knots. :-( > > Last time I was in Canada, we still were stuck with mostly 55mph limits > in USA while Canada seemed to have a standard of 100kpm so I equate the > two. > > My point was that I don't bother to convert. I just use the measurement > as presented. > > Tony Thigpen > > Pew, Curtis G wrote on 7/21/20 12:28 PM: > > On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:12 AM, David Spiegel > wrote: > >> > >> "... 100 knots is about 55mph ..." > >> Assuming you meant Kilometers/Hour (based upon the context), it's > actually 62.5 MPH. > >> > > > > Well, if the posted limit is 55 mph, 62.5 mph seems about the right speed to > go. 😉 > > > > But duck-duck-go tells me 100 knots is 115.078 mph, or 185.2001 km/h. > > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Well, "the whole nine yards" is about cloth, so I guess it fits the two known items. :-) As for things being in SI and not US, but labeled as US, yes, I too am seeing that. If you buy washers (for bolts) at the big box stores, they have larger holes than the ones at the true hardware store. And, they look to actually be metric when you measure them. Also, plywood seems to be a bit "off" on the thickness too. The router bits I used to use to make glue-up dado slots (with plywood going into the slot) are a little off now. Tony Thigpen Jeremy Nicoll wrote on 7/21/20 2:29 PM: On Tue, 21 Jul 2020, at 17:00, Tony Thigpen wrote: It's all perspective and how precise you need to be. And what we are measuring. The only thing I know that is measured in yards is cloth and football. What about "the whole nine yards"? In home improvements, boards and such are measured in feet,inch,16ths. That is it. Not yards,feet,inch,16th. In the UK, stuff is now labelled in cm or mm, but actual sizes of many things haven't changed. And timber sizes are often nominal anyway, eg the size of something before it was planed or sawn. What used to be an 8 foot by 2 foot board is typically now sold as 2400x600. When driving down the road, it's all miles or 1/10 of a mile. We don't say Mile,yard,feet,inch,16th. On motorways etc the countdown markers to where a slip-road starts were supposedly at 100 yard intervals. A quick google suggests they are "at about 100 yard/metre" intervals now, so goodness knows what the actual distances are. But it hardly matters for the purpose of seeing one's approaching the start of the slip. And incidentally both 1/16 and 1/32 were easy to work with (eg in DIY with timber) being, if you like just a bit more and just a bit less than 1 mm. On the other hand if you were machining metal you'd likely have been working in "thou" ie thousandths of an inch. Apparently USAians call that a "mil" - which must be easily confused with millimetre. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Tue, 21 Jul 2020, at 17:00, Tony Thigpen wrote: > It's all perspective and how precise you need to be. And what we are > measuring. > > The only thing I know that is measured in yards is cloth and football. What about "the whole nine yards"? > In home improvements, boards and such are measured in feet,inch,16ths. > That is it. Not yards,feet,inch,16th. In the UK, stuff is now labelled in cm or mm, but actual sizes of many things haven't changed. And timber sizes are often nominal anyway, eg the size of something before it was planed or sawn. What used to be an 8 foot by 2 foot board is typically now sold as 2400x600. > When driving down the road, it's all miles or 1/10 of a mile. We don't > say Mile,yard,feet,inch,16th. On motorways etc the countdown markers to where a slip-road starts were supposedly at 100 yard intervals. A quick google suggests they are "at about 100 yard/metre" intervals now, so goodness knows what the actual distances are. But it hardly matters for the purpose of seeing one's approaching the start of the slip. And incidentally both 1/16 and 1/32 were easy to work with (eg in DIY with timber) being, if you like just a bit more and just a bit less than 1 mm. On the other hand if you were machining metal you'd likely have been working in "thou" ie thousandths of an inch. Apparently USAians call that a "mil" - which must be easily confused with millimetre. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousandth_of_an_inch -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Too many things That context was with regard to driving in Canada and should have been 100 KPM, not 100 knots. :-( Last time I was in Canada, we still were stuck with mostly 55mph limits in USA while Canada seemed to have a standard of 100kpm so I equate the two. My point was that I don't bother to convert. I just use the measurement as presented. Tony Thigpen Pew, Curtis G wrote on 7/21/20 12:28 PM: On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:12 AM, David Spiegel wrote: "... 100 knots is about 55mph ..." Assuming you meant Kilometers/Hour (based upon the context), it's actually 62.5 MPH. Well, if the posted limit is 55 mph, 62.5 mph seems about the right speed to go. 😉 But duck-duck-go tells me 100 knots is 115.078 mph, or 185.2001 km/h. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Jul 21, 2020, at 11:12 AM, David Spiegel wrote: > > "... 100 knots is about 55mph ..." > Assuming you meant Kilometers/Hour (based upon the context), it's actually > 62.5 MPH. > Well, if the posted limit is 55 mph, 62.5 mph seems about the right speed to go. 😉 But duck-duck-go tells me 100 knots is 115.078 mph, or 185.2001 km/h. -- Pew, Curtis G curtis@austin.utexas.edu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Hi Tony, "... 100 knots is about 55mph ..." Assuming you meant Kilometers/Hour (based upon the context), it's actually 62.5 MPH. Regards, David On 2020-07-21 12:00, Tony Thigpen wrote: It's all perspective and how precise you need to be. And what we are measuring. The only thing I know that is measured in yards is cloth and football. In football, we never measure in feet or inches, just yards. We just care if it crosses the line. For construction, we never use yards, it's always feet. It can be 300 feet and we still call it feet. We don't convert it to yards. In home improvements, boards and such are measured in feet,inch,16ths. That is it. Not yards,feet,inch,16th. When driving down the road, it's all miles or 1/10 of a mile. We don't say Mile,yard,feet,inch,16th. When I am flying my plane, I only care about height in 100 feet increments. If I say I am at 3100 feet, that can be anywhere between 3050 and 3150. And, if I am talking to ATC, its "N1234 level at 3.1". And, speaking of flying, I fly in KPH , not MPH. I don't don't convert between knots or miles, I just use what is applicable. When I drive in Canada, I just use the other markings on the speedometer. I know that 100 knots is about 55mph, but I don't really care as I don't convert it back and forth. I just go by what the sign says. (Which, as a good American, I add 10 to, or maybe 20 if I am on an interstate highway.) So, as a USAns (as someone called us), we don't worry about conversion between lengths that much. So, that is why the whole "must be base 10" issue does not matter to me. Tony Thigpen David Crayford wrote on 7/21/20 9:57 AM: I agree that cups are useful! The only time I find Imperial useful is reading US recipes that use cups. Other than that Imperial is brain damaged! And I say that having grown up in the UK to a family which used Imperial all the time in my youth. I used to go to the sweet shop and ask for a quarter of a pound of American hard gums! I recently watched a US home improvements show and couldn't fathom how anybody could make sense of 1/16th of an inch. I couldn't tell you how many yards to a mile but meters to a KM is simple. On 2020-07-21 9:46 PM, Pew, Curtis G wrote: On Jul 20, 2020, at 10:22 PM, Jackson, Rob wrote: American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. For science and engineering I totally agree: you should never use anything but SI units. They have precise definitions, and being decimal-based make calculations easier. Not to mention being used world-wide. For everyday life, though, I think American/Imperial units (and any other traditional systems that may survive elsewhere) have their advantages. They evolved because people found them useful. For example, when I’m cooking I could say 250 milliliters or one cup (they’re close enough for the precision I need) but one cup is simpler. Or if my pedometer says I’ve walked 2000 steps I know I’ve gone about a mile. (“Mile” comes from “mille passuum” = “a thousand of steps”; my pedometer counts left and right as separate steps but for the Romans you had to move both before they counted it.) P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. Yep. For precision definitions, always use SI. I think it’s cool that SI units are now defined by specifying exact values for physical constants. P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. This supports my point about the convenience of traditional units. Fahrenheit is more granular than Celsius, so you can be a bit more precise without having to go to decimals. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
It's all perspective and how precise you need to be. And what we are measuring. The only thing I know that is measured in yards is cloth and football. In football, we never measure in feet or inches, just yards. We just care if it crosses the line. For construction, we never use yards, it's always feet. It can be 300 feet and we still call it feet. We don't convert it to yards. In home improvements, boards and such are measured in feet,inch,16ths. That is it. Not yards,feet,inch,16th. When driving down the road, it's all miles or 1/10 of a mile. We don't say Mile,yard,feet,inch,16th. When I am flying my plane, I only care about height in 100 feet increments. If I say I am at 3100 feet, that can be anywhere between 3050 and 3150. And, if I am talking to ATC, its "N1234 level at 3.1". And, speaking of flying, I fly in KPH , not MPH. I don't don't convert between knots or miles, I just use what is applicable. When I drive in Canada, I just use the other markings on the speedometer. I know that 100 knots is about 55mph, but I don't really care as I don't convert it back and forth. I just go by what the sign says. (Which, as a good American, I add 10 to, or maybe 20 if I am on an interstate highway.) So, as a USAns (as someone called us), we don't worry about conversion between lengths that much. So, that is why the whole "must be base 10" issue does not matter to me. Tony Thigpen David Crayford wrote on 7/21/20 9:57 AM: I agree that cups are useful! The only time I find Imperial useful is reading US recipes that use cups. Other than that Imperial is brain damaged! And I say that having grown up in the UK to a family which used Imperial all the time in my youth. I used to go to the sweet shop and ask for a quarter of a pound of American hard gums! I recently watched a US home improvements show and couldn't fathom how anybody could make sense of 1/16th of an inch. I couldn't tell you how many yards to a mile but meters to a KM is simple. On 2020-07-21 9:46 PM, Pew, Curtis G wrote: On Jul 20, 2020, at 10:22 PM, Jackson, Rob wrote: American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. For science and engineering I totally agree: you should never use anything but SI units. They have precise definitions, and being decimal-based make calculations easier. Not to mention being used world-wide. For everyday life, though, I think American/Imperial units (and any other traditional systems that may survive elsewhere) have their advantages. They evolved because people found them useful. For example, when I’m cooking I could say 250 milliliters or one cup (they’re close enough for the precision I need) but one cup is simpler. Or if my pedometer says I’ve walked 2000 steps I know I’ve gone about a mile. (“Mile” comes from “mille passuum” = “a thousand of steps”; my pedometer counts left and right as separate steps but for the Romans you had to move both before they counted it.) P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. Yep. For precision definitions, always use SI. I think it’s cool that SI units are now defined by specifying exact values for physical constants. P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. This supports my point about the convenience of traditional units. Fahrenheit is more granular than Celsius, so you can be a bit more precise without having to go to decimals. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Hi Tom, Don't forget that Metric was foisted upon us (as was federal bilingualism) by Justin's father as a political move after he quelled the FLQ Crisis. It also was a sneaky way to get more tax revenue. That is, 1 penny/liter gasoline tax seems more palatable than an extra 4.5 cents/gallon. One other thing ... When I worked at Environment Canada (for Americans think EPA+NOAA) (1980), I was writing FORTRAN (CDC and IBM) to decipher weather-related data based upon MANOBS (a world-wide convention). Believe it or not, EVERY item was measured in Imperial units (e.g. inches of rain/snow, candlepowers of sunlight, windspeed in miles per hour, atmospheric pressure in inches of mercury etc.). There was nary a Meter, Joule, Newton nor Kilopascal. Regards, David On 2020-07-21 10:57, Tom Russell wrote: Do we really want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the same name denoting different quantities depending on context? I agree with Shmuel. As a Canadian I was always mildly amused that the Americans had different quarts and gallons from us. They were wrong of course, but in a naïve way. Their quart was 32 ounces and ours was 40, their gallon was four quarts and so was ours. However I remember my shock when I discovered the ounce is different as well. A US fluid ounce is 1.040843 of our fluid ounces. That just seems so *wrong*.😊 G. Tom Russell “Stay calm. Be brave. Wait for the signs” — Jasper FriendlyBear “… and remember to leave good news alone.” — Gracie HeavyHand -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
> Do we really want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, > with the > same name denoting different quantities depending on context? I agree with Shmuel. As a Canadian I was always mildly amused that the Americans had different quarts and gallons from us. They were wrong of course, but in a naïve way. Their quart was 32 ounces and ours was 40, their gallon was four quarts and so was ours. However I remember my shock when I discovered the ounce is different as well. A US fluid ounce is 1.040843 of our fluid ounces. That just seems so *wrong*.😊 G. Tom Russell “Stay calm. Be brave. Wait for the signs” — Jasper FriendlyBear “… and remember to leave good news alone.” — Gracie HeavyHand -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
No, but I understood what the 18 and 6 yard boxes were in football :) Measuring out cups of flour is easier than getting the scales out when making Yorkshire puddings. > On 21 Jul 2020, at 10:33 pm, Martin Packer wrote: > > Then the 440 yard and 880 yard races would've meant nothing to you at > school. :-) > > Cheers, Martin > > Martin Packer > > zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM > > +44-7802-245-584 > > email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com > > Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker > > Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com > > Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/or > > https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 > > > Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA > > > > From: David Crayford > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Date: 21/07/2020 14:58 > Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After > All These Years? > Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > > > I agree that cups are useful! The only time I find Imperial useful is > reading US recipes that use cups. Other than that Imperial is brain > damaged! And I say that having grown up in the UK to a family which used > Imperial all the time in my youth. > I used to go to the sweet shop and ask for a quarter of a pound of > American hard gums! > > I recently watched a US home improvements show and couldn't fathom how > anybody could make sense of 1/16th of an inch. I couldn't tell you how > many yards to a mile but meters to a KM is simple. > >> On 2020-07-21 9:46 PM, Pew, Curtis G wrote: >> On Jul 20, 2020, at 10:22 PM, Jackson, Rob > wrote: >>> American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI > is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of > "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or > three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If > you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things > about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too > stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. >> For science and engineering I totally agree: you should never use > anything but SI units. They have precise definitions, and being > decimal-based make calculations easier. Not to mention being used > world-wide. >> >> For everyday life, though, I think American/Imperial units (and any > other traditional systems that may survive elsewhere) have their > advantages. They evolved because people found them useful. For example, > when I’m cooking I could say 250 milliliters or one cup (they’re close > enough for the precision I need) but one cup is simpler. Or if my > pedometer says I’ve walked 2000 steps I know I’ve gone about a mile. > (“Mile” comes from “mille passuum” = “a thousand of steps”; my pedometer > counts left and right as separate steps but for the Romans you had to move > both before they counted it.) >> >> >>> P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. > Imagine that. >> Yep. For precision definitions, always use SI. >> >> I think it’s cool that SI units are now defined by specifying exact > values for physical constants. >> >> >>> P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He > absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously > superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. >>> >>> As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but > I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time > I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is > Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since > they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather > than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't > tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. >> This supports my point about the convenience of traditional units. > Fahrenheit is more granular than Celsius, so you can be a bit more precise > without having to go to decimals. >> >> > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.u
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Then the 440 yard and 880 yard races would've meant nothing to you at school. :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/or https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: David Crayford To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 21/07/2020 14:58 Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List I agree that cups are useful! The only time I find Imperial useful is reading US recipes that use cups. Other than that Imperial is brain damaged! And I say that having grown up in the UK to a family which used Imperial all the time in my youth. I used to go to the sweet shop and ask for a quarter of a pound of American hard gums! I recently watched a US home improvements show and couldn't fathom how anybody could make sense of 1/16th of an inch. I couldn't tell you how many yards to a mile but meters to a KM is simple. On 2020-07-21 9:46 PM, Pew, Curtis G wrote: > On Jul 20, 2020, at 10:22 PM, Jackson, Rob wrote: >> American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. > For science and engineering I totally agree: you should never use anything but SI units. They have precise definitions, and being decimal-based make calculations easier. Not to mention being used world-wide. > > For everyday life, though, I think American/Imperial units (and any other traditional systems that may survive elsewhere) have their advantages. They evolved because people found them useful. For example, when I’m cooking I could say 250 milliliters or one cup (they’re close enough for the precision I need) but one cup is simpler. Or if my pedometer says I’ve walked 2000 steps I know I’ve gone about a mile. (“Mile” comes from “mille passuum” = “a thousand of steps”; my pedometer counts left and right as separate steps but for the Romans you had to move both before they counted it.) > > >> P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. > Yep. For precision definitions, always use SI. > > I think it’s cool that SI units are now defined by specifying exact values for physical constants. > > >> P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. >> >> As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. > This supports my point about the convenience of traditional units. Fahrenheit is more granular than Celsius, so you can be a bit more precise without having to go to decimals. > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
I agree that cups are useful! The only time I find Imperial useful is reading US recipes that use cups. Other than that Imperial is brain damaged! And I say that having grown up in the UK to a family which used Imperial all the time in my youth. I used to go to the sweet shop and ask for a quarter of a pound of American hard gums! I recently watched a US home improvements show and couldn't fathom how anybody could make sense of 1/16th of an inch. I couldn't tell you how many yards to a mile but meters to a KM is simple. On 2020-07-21 9:46 PM, Pew, Curtis G wrote: On Jul 20, 2020, at 10:22 PM, Jackson, Rob wrote: American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. For science and engineering I totally agree: you should never use anything but SI units. They have precise definitions, and being decimal-based make calculations easier. Not to mention being used world-wide. For everyday life, though, I think American/Imperial units (and any other traditional systems that may survive elsewhere) have their advantages. They evolved because people found them useful. For example, when I’m cooking I could say 250 milliliters or one cup (they’re close enough for the precision I need) but one cup is simpler. Or if my pedometer says I’ve walked 2000 steps I know I’ve gone about a mile. (“Mile” comes from “mille passuum” = “a thousand of steps”; my pedometer counts left and right as separate steps but for the Romans you had to move both before they counted it.) P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. Yep. For precision definitions, always use SI. I think it’s cool that SI units are now defined by specifying exact values for physical constants. P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. This supports my point about the convenience of traditional units. Fahrenheit is more granular than Celsius, so you can be a bit more precise without having to go to decimals. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Measures where the names have other meanings are unhelpful. So "1 cup" might be meaningful to a USAn (or someone like me who bought measuring spoons/cups in the USA) but it's thoroughly ambiguous. I notice that USAns don't talk about "stone" (14lbs) so there's only so far the non-decimal usefulness goes. :-) Probably they don't talk about "hundredweight" or "groats" or "florins" either. :-) Cheers, Martin Martin Packer zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/or https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: "Pew, Curtis G" To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 21/07/2020 14:46 Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Jul 20, 2020, at 10:22 PM, Jackson, Rob wrote: > > American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. For science and engineering I totally agree: you should never use anything but SI units. They have precise definitions, and being decimal-based make calculations easier. Not to mention being used world-wide. For everyday life, though, I think American/Imperial units (and any other traditional systems that may survive elsewhere) have their advantages. They evolved because people found them useful. For example, when I’m cooking I could say 250 milliliters or one cup (they’re close enough for the precision I need) but one cup is simpler. Or if my pedometer says I’ve walked 2000 steps I know I’ve gone about a mile. (“Mile” comes from “mille passuum” = “a thousand of steps”; my pedometer counts left and right as separate steps but for the Romans you had to move both before they counted it.) > > P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. Yep. For precision definitions, always use SI. I think it’s cool that SI units are now defined by specifying exact values for physical constants. > > P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. This supports my point about the convenience of traditional units. Fahrenheit is more granular than Celsius, so you can be a bit more precise without having to go to decimals. -- Pew, Curtis G curtis@austin.utexas.edu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Jul 20, 2020, at 10:22 PM, Jackson, Rob wrote: > > American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is > not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" > no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a > beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, > then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. > I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, > although the same equivalency attempts apply there. For science and engineering I totally agree: you should never use anything but SI units. They have precise definitions, and being decimal-based make calculations easier. Not to mention being used world-wide. For everyday life, though, I think American/Imperial units (and any other traditional systems that may survive elsewhere) have their advantages. They evolved because people found them useful. For example, when I’m cooking I could say 250 milliliters or one cup (they’re close enough for the precision I need) but one cup is simpler. Or if my pedometer says I’ve walked 2000 steps I know I’ve gone about a mile. (“Mile” comes from “mille passuum” = “a thousand of steps”; my pedometer counts left and right as separate steps but for the Romans you had to move both before they counted it.) > > P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. > Imagine that. Yep. For precision definitions, always use SI. I think it’s cool that SI units are now defined by specifying exact values for physical constants. > > P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely > couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't > get it. It is what it is. > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have > this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say > them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius > degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly > the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius > degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what > absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. This supports my point about the convenience of traditional units. Fahrenheit is more granular than Celsius, so you can be a bit more precise without having to go to decimals. -- Pew, Curtis G curtis@austin.utexas.edu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Mike Schwab wrote: *Actually, the original gram was 1 cubic centimeter of distilled waterat 4c, making a kilogram 10 cm * 10 cm * 10 cm of distilled water at4c. Then they discovered nuclear isotopes that allowed the mass ofwater to vary between samples.* There's a logical reason for this. The anomalous expansion of water. Whoever threw together physics as we know it was a deep thinker. Water is most dense at 4C. So if you are going to dice up a gram of water into a cube, at 4c it will occupy a cubic centimetre. This is very good for the survival of fish when the pond starts to freeze. This is another proper example of MOVE. On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:09 PM Jackson, Rob wrote: > Thanks, Mike. I worry the point will be lost. -459.67 degrees > Fahrenheit. Yup; makes perfect sense. Slides in so well with the other > Imperial units. > > First Horizon Bank > Mainframe Technical Support > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Mike Schwab > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:59 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > attachments.] > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero > Absolute 0 is 0K, 0R, -273.15C, -459.67F. > Freezing point of water is 273.15K, 491.67R, 0C, 32F. > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:23 PM Jackson, Rob > wrote: > > > > It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. > > > > Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in > slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add > in a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. > > > > American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI > is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of > "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or > three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If > you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things > about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too > stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. > > > > P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. > > Imagine that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Imperial-unit > > > > P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He > absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously > superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. > > > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I > have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I > say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius > degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're > exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than > Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell > you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. > > > > First Horizon Bank > > Mainframe Technical Support > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > > attachments.] > > > > The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say > all sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, > fraternité", but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the > English system of units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick > question; it depends on which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? > Can you convert furlongs per fortnight to miles per hour? > > > > > > -- > > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > nstructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: > > INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: > > This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this > message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Thanks, Mike. I worry the point will be lost. -459.67 degrees Fahrenheit. Yup; makes perfect sense. Slides in so well with the other Imperial units. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:59 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero Absolute 0 is 0K, 0R, -273.15C, -459.67F. Freezing point of water is 273.15K, 491.67R, 0C, 32F. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:23 PM Jackson, Rob wrote: > > It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. > > Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in > slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add in > a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. > > American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is > not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" > no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a > beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, > then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. > I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, > although the same equivalency attempts apply there. > > P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. > Imagine that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Imperial-unit > > P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely > couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't > get it. It is what it is. > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have > this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say > them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius > degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly > the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius > degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what > absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. > > First Horizon Bank > Mainframe Technical Support > > -Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening > attachments.] > > The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all > sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", > but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of > units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on > which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per > fortnight to miles per hour? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > nstructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: > INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: > This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this > message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero Absolute 0 is 0K, 0R, -273.15C, -459.67F. Freezing point of water is 273.15K, 491.67R, 0C, 32F. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:23 PM Jackson, Rob wrote: > > It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. > > Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in > slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add in > a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. > > American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is > not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" > no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a > beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, > then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. > I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, > although the same equivalency attempts apply there. > > P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. > Imagine that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Imperial-unit > > P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely > couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't > get it. It is what it is. > > As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have > this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say > them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius > degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly > the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius > degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what > absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. > > First Horizon Bank > Mainframe Technical Support > > -Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Seymour J Metz > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] > > The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all > sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", > but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of > units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on > which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per > fortnight to miles per hour? > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > nstructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO > IBM-MAIN > Confidentiality notice: > This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally > privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended > recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this > message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately > notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
It disturbs me that I agree with Shmuel three times in as many days. Tony, what's your mass here lately after Insanity-19? Let's have it in slugs, please, since that's the unit. Take you a dram and a scruple; add in a grain or two for precision, but make sure you convert it to mass. American standard--Imperial units; they're rubbish. Abject garbage. SI is not a fad, despite its origins. No fan of the "French;" no fan of "Trump;" no fan of anything political. But SI, revised a couple times or three, is a beautiful system of units in which one may compute physics. If you disagree, then I assert you have a challenge understanding many things about physics. I'm talking about mechanics and fluid dynamics. I'm too stupid for E&M, although the same equivalency attempts apply there. P.S. Apparently Imperial units have been redefined as relative to SI. Imagine that. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Imperial-unit P.P.S. This reminds me of many conversations with my father. He absolutely couldn't stand this type of thing, i.e. SI being obviously superior. I don't get it. It is what it is. As a disclaimer, I'm not a complete bigot. I say miles and yards; but I have this nasty habit of converting them to meters in my mind every time I say them. The one thing I cannot get used to in every-day life is Celsius degrees. I think in Fahrenheit degrees. Oddly enough, since they're exactly the same thing, I find it easier to talk in Kelvins rather than Celsius degrees. Maybe I just like starting at zero. :) I couldn't tell you what absolute zero in Fahrenheit is; I guess I never cared. First Horizon Bank Mainframe Technical Support -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 5:02 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? [External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.] The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per fortnight to miles per hour? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 nstructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Confidentiality notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient(s), or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this message to the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this e-mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the sender and delete this e-mail message from your computer. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
These days everybody has disabled the finger port, except on the coke machine. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 9:26 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? And FINGERing each other??? :-) Tony Thigpen Seymour J Metz wrote on 7/20/20 9:20 PM: > IMHO we'd all be better off with Gopher instead of the WWW. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of > Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? > > Well, at least he didn't claim to be using Archie, or Veronica. > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:20 PM zMan wrote: >> >> Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re >> using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. >> >> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: >> >>> You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", >>> capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean >>> simply >>> that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, >>> actually. >>> So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were >>> saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the >>> internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. >>> >> >> -- >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > -- > Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA > Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
And FINGERing each other??? :-) Tony Thigpen Seymour J Metz wrote on 7/20/20 9:20 PM: IMHO we'd all be better off with Gopher instead of the WWW. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Well, at least he didn't claim to be using Archie, or Veronica. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:20 PM zMan wrote: Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean simply that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, actually. So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
IMHO we'd all be better off with Gopher instead of the WWW. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Well, at least he didn't claim to be using Archie, or Veronica. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:20 PM zMan wrote: > > Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re > using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: > > > You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", > > capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean > > simply > > that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, > > actually. > > So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were > > saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the > > internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Well, at least he didn't claim to be using Archie, or Veronica. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:20 PM zMan wrote: > > Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re > using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: > > > You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", > > capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean > > simply > > that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, > > actually. > > So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were > > saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the > > internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Not gonna sue you, but you realize AltaVista died in 2003, right? You’re using Yahoo, whose continued existence is a mystery to all. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:52 PM Bob Bridges wrote: > You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", > capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean > simply > that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, > actually. > So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were > saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the > internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Well, the English Inch and the American inch were both defined as 3 barley corns. But the lengths were slightly different. So in 1959 they set the international inch as 25.4 mm, which was between the two values and less than 1/1000 for the larger change from the old value. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 3:04 PM Bob Bridges wrote: > > This interests me. I'm sort of on Seymour's side on this one, Tony; I > learned the metric system in high-school chemistry and mildly prefer it. > While I gotta admire anyone with the stick-to-it-iveness it takes to call it > a "fad" after two hundred years and 192 out of 195 countries, I'm persuaded > by the practical value of decimal units. > > You say that's only "a small part of the 'standard' ", but I would have > said, if asked, that it was the whole point. What other reason would anyone > have to adopt SI units? Well, aside from the 192/195-countries thing, of > course, which I suppose ain't chopped liver - but that came later, so I > don't count it. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* A ship in harbour is safe. But that's not what a ship is for. */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:38 > > We are no more immune to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of > Crowds than any other country, and our society has massive conformity in > many areas. Even many who want to rebel find a marginal group to rebel in > conformity with. People accept the most ludicrous claims because others in > their in group accept them. Koolaid, anybody? > > As to SI units, there are practical reasons for adopting them. Do we really > want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the > same name denoting different quantities depending on context? > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Tony Thigpen > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:36 > > This is a fun Monday discussion. :-) > > I did not say anything about decimal arithmetic, either for nor against. > I was discussing this fad called SI and how it was a standard looking > for a base. The fact that it uses base-10 arithmetic may add to it's > popularity, but that is only one small part of the 'standard'. > > --- Martin Packer wrote on 7/20/20 8:13 AM: > > So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars > > and cents? :-) > > > > --- > > From: Tony Thigpen > > Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 > > > > We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others > > after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on > > something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that > > 'fit' into the new perception of reality. > > > > --- Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: > >> Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to > >> SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. > >> > >> Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint > >> that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by > >> 240 lbs. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
The practical value doesn't depend on how it started. Yes, I could say all sorts of things about how the mob interpreted "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", but it doesn't change the fact that nobody understands the English system of units. How many gills in a gallon? (That's a trick question; it depends on which kind of gallon.) How many ounces in a ton? Can you convert furlongs per fortnight to miles per hour? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 4:18 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Yes, it started as a 'fad'. If you look at what happened, the French were beheading all the royalty just because "royalty is bad" and they wanted a new measurement system because the old one could be traced back to royalty so therefore that old measurement system was also "bad" by association. Sounds like the same thing that happens every season in Paris. The old clothing is "out" and the new clothing is "in". Like I said, "fads". (I wonder if the 'f' in fads should stand for 'French'?) :-) Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 4:03 PM: > This interests me. I'm sort of on Seymour's side on this one, Tony; I > learned the metric system in high-school chemistry and mildly prefer it. > While I gotta admire anyone with the stick-to-it-iveness it takes to call it > a "fad" after two hundred years and 192 out of 195 countries, I'm persuaded > by the practical value of decimal units. > > You say that's only "a small part of the 'standard' ", but I would have > said, if asked, that it was the whole point. What other reason would anyone > have to adopt SI units? Well, aside from the 192/195-countries thing, of > course, which I suppose ain't chopped liver - but that came later, so I > don't count it. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* A ship in harbour is safe. But that's not what a ship is for. */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:38 > > We are no more immune to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of > Crowds than any other country, and our society has massive conformity in > many areas. Even many who want to rebel find a marginal group to rebel in > conformity with. People accept the most ludicrous claims because others in > their in group accept them. Koolaid, anybody? > > As to SI units, there are practical reasons for adopting them. Do we really > want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the > same name denoting different quantities depending on context? > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Tony Thigpen > Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:36 > > This is a fun Monday discussion. :-) > > I did not say anything about decimal arithmetic, either for nor against. > I was discussing this fad called SI and how it was a standard looking > for a base. The fact that it uses base-10 arithmetic may add to it's > popularity, but that is only one small part of the 'standard'. > > --- Martin Packer wrote on 7/20/20 8:13 AM: >> So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars >> and cents? :-) >> >> --- >> From: Tony Thigpen >> Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 >> >> We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others >> after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on >> something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that >> 'fit' into the new perception of reality. >> >> --- Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: >>> Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to >>> SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. >>> >>> Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint >>> that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by >>> 240 lbs. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Yes, it started as a 'fad'. If you look at what happened, the French were beheading all the royalty just because "royalty is bad" and they wanted a new measurement system because the old one could be traced back to royalty so therefore that old measurement system was also "bad" by association. Sounds like the same thing that happens every season in Paris. The old clothing is "out" and the new clothing is "in". Like I said, "fads". (I wonder if the 'f' in fads should stand for 'French'?) :-) Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 4:03 PM: This interests me. I'm sort of on Seymour's side on this one, Tony; I learned the metric system in high-school chemistry and mildly prefer it. While I gotta admire anyone with the stick-to-it-iveness it takes to call it a "fad" after two hundred years and 192 out of 195 countries, I'm persuaded by the practical value of decimal units. You say that's only "a small part of the 'standard' ", but I would have said, if asked, that it was the whole point. What other reason would anyone have to adopt SI units? Well, aside from the 192/195-countries thing, of course, which I suppose ain't chopped liver - but that came later, so I don't count it. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* A ship in harbour is safe. But that's not what a ship is for. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:38 We are no more immune to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds than any other country, and our society has massive conformity in many areas. Even many who want to rebel find a marginal group to rebel in conformity with. People accept the most ludicrous claims because others in their in group accept them. Koolaid, anybody? As to SI units, there are practical reasons for adopting them. Do we really want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the same name denoting different quantities depending on context? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:36 This is a fun Monday discussion. :-) I did not say anything about decimal arithmetic, either for nor against. I was discussing this fad called SI and how it was a standard looking for a base. The fact that it uses base-10 arithmetic may add to it's popularity, but that is only one small part of the 'standard'. --- Martin Packer wrote on 7/20/20 8:13 AM: So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars and cents? :-) --- From: Tony Thigpen Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that 'fit' into the new perception of reality. --- Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
This interests me. I'm sort of on Seymour's side on this one, Tony; I learned the metric system in high-school chemistry and mildly prefer it. While I gotta admire anyone with the stick-to-it-iveness it takes to call it a "fad" after two hundred years and 192 out of 195 countries, I'm persuaded by the practical value of decimal units. You say that's only "a small part of the 'standard' ", but I would have said, if asked, that it was the whole point. What other reason would anyone have to adopt SI units? Well, aside from the 192/195-countries thing, of course, which I suppose ain't chopped liver - but that came later, so I don't count it. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* A ship in harbour is safe. But that's not what a ship is for. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:38 We are no more immune to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds than any other country, and our society has massive conformity in many areas. Even many who want to rebel find a marginal group to rebel in conformity with. People accept the most ludicrous claims because others in their in group accept them. Koolaid, anybody? As to SI units, there are practical reasons for adopting them. Do we really want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the same name denoting different quantities depending on context? -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 08:36 This is a fun Monday discussion. :-) I did not say anything about decimal arithmetic, either for nor against. I was discussing this fad called SI and how it was a standard looking for a base. The fact that it uses base-10 arithmetic may add to it's popularity, but that is only one small part of the 'standard'. --- Martin Packer wrote on 7/20/20 8:13 AM: > So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars > and cents? :-) > > --- > From: Tony Thigpen > Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 > > We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others > after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on > something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that > 'fit' into the new perception of reality. > > --- Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: >> Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to >> SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. >> >> Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint >> that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by >> 240 lbs. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
You had me convinced, Tony :). I've recently started using "Google", capitalized, to mean Google, but the lower-case verb "google" to mean simply that I searched for something on-line. (By habit I use AltaVista, actually. So I'm an old fart - so sue me.) So when I finally noticed that you were saying "google" and not "Google", I thought maybe you were referring to the internet generally, not Wikipedia specifically. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The results are astounding. I've seen the before and after photographs, and let me tell you, in just a few weeks the women go from having tired, sagging, wrinkly skin to having a new haircut and expert makeup. -W Bruce Cameron, 2010 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 09:59 OK. OK, I now see how I was not communicating it correctly. At one point when I was talking about Wikipedia, I started using the term 'google'. And, yes, I was incorrect. I intended to be talking about Wikipedia, not Google. I guess my age is now showing. :-( --- Jeremy Nicoll wrote on 7/20/20 9:47 AM: > Well in that case perhaps you'd care to explain to /me/ what you meant by > > ... when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write > just about anything into google. > > I know of no way that I can "write ... anything into google". > > Yes, I could edit a Wikipedia article that google could allow other people to > find, but you seem certain that you really DID mean google. > > Please explain. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Actually, the original gram was 1 cubic centimeter of distilled water at 4c, making a kilogram 10 cm * 10 cm * 10 cm of distilled water at 4c. Then they discovered nuclear isotopes that allowed the mass of water to vary between samples. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 6:41 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: > > Wayne, > > We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others > after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on > something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that > 'fit' into the new perception of reality. > > It is humorous that the meter was originally defined to be one ten > millionth of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator through > Paris. Or that the kilogram was originally defined as the mass of a > man-made artifact of platinum-iridium held in a specific laboratory in > France. It appears that the whole SI system was a system to make France > the center of the universe. :-) > > Tony Thigpen > > Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: > > Current international agreement for all new elements is to end them with > > -ium. > > > > Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI > > units while I was at school in the 1960s. > > > > Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that > > isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. > > > > And Webster, whilst described as an anglophile gave you center instead of > > centre, defense instead of defence... > > > > Not sure why saying an abacus is a computer makes me insane:) The best > > joker wore a mask. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:19 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: > > > >> Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is > >> almost the same story: > >> > >> https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium > >> > >> Tony Thigpen > >> > >> Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: > >>> Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the > >> great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. > >> At https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ&pg=PA201 you can find a > >> page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first > >> isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a > >> metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). > >> Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the > >> name: > >>> > >>> "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments > >> aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the > >> element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on > >> his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical > >> Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by > >> contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the > >> metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be > >> isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled > >> on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling > >> and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and > >> Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." > >>> > >>> That sounds plausible to me. > >>> > >>> --- > >>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > >>> > >>> /* It's ok to doubt your beliefs; but it's not ok to believe your > >> doubts. -Jim Snider, pastor, 2000-12-10 */ > >>> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: Bob Bridges [mailto:robhbrid...@gmail.com] > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 17:34 > >>> > >>> Aha! Yet a third story; in this one Davy started out with "aluminum" > >> and the Europeans ~added~ the 'i'. > >>> > >>> -Original Message- > >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > >> On Behalf Of Joe Monk > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 07:22 > >>> > >>> The British Scientist (Davy) who discovered ALUMINUM named it that. It is > >>> we Americans who are using the correct name ... the British press felt > >> that > >>> it should be in line with sodium and potassium and thus added to the > >>> spelling. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >> > > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
OK. OK, I now see how I was not communicating it correctly. At one point when I was talking about Wikipedia, I started using the term 'google'. And, yes, I was incorrect. I intended to be talking about Wikipedia, not Google. I guess my age is now showing. :-( Tony Thigpen Jeremy Nicoll wrote on 7/20/20 9:47 AM: On Mon, 20 Jul 2020, at 13:42, Tony Thigpen wrote: You have missed the point. Twice. Enough said. Not worth the effort. Well in that case perhaps you'd care to explain to /me/ what you meant by ... when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write just about anything into google. I know of no way that I can "write ... anything into google". Yes, I could edit a Wikipedia article that google could allow other people to find, but you seem certain that you really DID mean google. Please explain. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
On Mon, 20 Jul 2020, at 13:42, Tony Thigpen wrote: > You have missed the point. Twice. Enough said. Not worth the effort. Well in that case perhaps you'd care to explain to /me/ what you meant by ... when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write just about anything into google. I know of no way that I can "write ... anything into google". Yes, I could edit a Wikipedia article that google could allow other people to find, but you seem certain that you really DID mean google. Please explain. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Wikipedia is not google. Google is an attempt at a search engine, and that URL is a rwedirect URL that lets google track the use of the link. Some of the article on wiki are of high quality. Others? Well, I trust wiki as a source of references ;-) -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 7:25 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Bob, I was referring to your "Wikipedia (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1KI3faUsQ4YEpgh7TyZ4fLSApgKA8S4U6_YCt5N7I9n70WHQJlTRhnwY585_ptp9A0THTRBN2o2Rx306X21ywdEePy1x4O_8UxlPcpzs_aP1veOkERadnjzsak0KEEFxEdZKLnoptrQcN2EzhKZIG9JPbcH9K_2aGl8-5a4UuKjiiMGsfbr5UycCe7JnMawJwMf3W2W-BNzH-PwYujuTPsK9JK9JGHHKjFFdVpCCvGZA1i3pz7Kmd3JlQCXrbqgbbeJi9HvtGz_k6UrRZOVwREOVatIdIP4ATkdKMmLYz5EmMqlV-LgbQotYi-hCBm6pLY3ehNRS66ZkWSB74FlkexXgACUIIHFpfseZE5_GuPS_PsxfrWSLdjdzkuqWwpfR2FYA8DzEns3lb49R6U9ofdnkB9IfXpigOuG69R54YnxEjARG3XEcbmSMwY6TLNCmB/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAluminium%29 says this about the name:" quote when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write just about anything into google. Most teachers will not allow quotes from google due to the mess that google is in. The people at Merrian-Webster have always been considered authoritative. If we can't trust the people that produce of the the top dictionaries, then we are lost. In this case, I was saying that "here is a much more authoritative site that backs up most of the story posted on google." Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 2:04 AM: > Always interesting, if you like words (and I do). Thanks. > > "Google", you say? Google isn't the source of my information, only the > warehouse (so to speak). The first source I quoted was Mr Davy himself. But > maybe you meant Wikipedia; a lot of people express varying amounts of > derision when they hear Wikipedia mentioned. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* The arguments against state-controlled churches apply with equal force to > state-run schools. No free society allows the state to claim authority over > the mind. -Joseph Sobran */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Tony Thigpen > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 18:19 > > Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is > almost the same story: > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1zHQtBmJvC1vVJ0vW-l7ndshrJmSTHAKKvrtUdN8uEe6vxdo1GOUouThBioS83Z0U0bfb4Q5O8Yt8E0ZnP9X6C05s9EsWXz36AyMlvxc-6yK2lncIOIUii4SjSvjCPu5vuv3BCSKNqm4MavRaqdeIeahTGtkdhDkOo-9QvI4o3y-AIZIynL1iSBAjSv6ET1zY0Wnzsh_4-AhgtCYuB7Y1FFtmvSfvNsOEyg-94-Rf8Xw4pPgHLaBq8kCDUG9m7dh0GIeUZEkxMfwrE-XkW6vkojSG7UCcrtypIOw5sGJ6SAqnmn3-Cy37KUwaZ4bwckKs7OJQYmbbReNfe5wkq-nq4Lxddf3NFloCKHcGZ0O9P0phWSkFryRCxuf4dndtiq0FTU_1QgJGxMaA-wuWF1rTaqpMcQh7m5SvsdHAuMeKcRBe877K5k5FQK0OdEGwqPsO9V2rJaJyDr_CGTKaUK6W_Q/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.merriam-webster.com%2Fwords-at-play%2Faluminum-vs-aluminium > > --- Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: >> Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the great >> "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. At >> https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ&pg=PA201 you can find a page >> in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first isolated >> aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a metal to be >> found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). Wikipedia >> (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1KI3faUsQ4YEpgh7TyZ4fLSApgKA8S4U6_YCt5N7I9n70WHQJlTRhnwY585_ptp9A0THTRBN2o2Rx306X21ywdEePy1x4O_8UxlPcpzs_aP1veOkERadnjzsak0KEEFxEdZKLnoptrQcN2EzhKZIG9JPbcH9K_2aGl8-5a4UuKjiiMGsfbr5UycCe7JnMawJwMf3W2W-BNzH-PwYujuTPsK9JK9JGHHKjFFdVpCCvGZA1i3pz7Kmd3JlQCXrbqgbbeJi9HvtGz_k6UrRZOVwREOVatIdIP4ATkdKMmLYz5EmMqlV-LgbQotYi-hCBm6pLY3ehNRS66ZkWSB74FlkexXgACUIIHFpfseZE5_GuPS_PsxfrWSLdjdzkuqWwpfR2FYA8DzEns3lb49R6U9ofdnkB9IfXpigOuG69R54YnxEjARG3XEcbmSMwY6TLNCmB/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAluminium%29 >> says this ! about the name: >> >> "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed >> to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. In >> 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on his >> electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical Transactions >> of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by contemporary >> chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be >> named for the oxide, alu
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
You have missed the point. Twice. Enough said. Not worth the effort. Tony Thigpen Steve Smith wrote on 7/20/20 8:38 AM: And therefore the question as to what you're talking about. You seem to be conflating a search engine with an online encyclopedia for some reason. So we're left wondering what it is you really mean. Wikipedia itself says it's not an academic reference, and actually no encyclopedia is. It is adequate for the purposes of IBM-MAIN, however. sas On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:26 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: Bob, I was referring to your "Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name:" quote when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write just about anything into google. Most teachers will not allow quotes from google due to the mess that google is in. The people at Merrian-Webster have always been considered authoritative. If we can't trust the people that produce of the the top dictionaries, then we are lost. In this case, I was saying that "here is a much more authoritative site that backs up most of the story posted on google." Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 2:04 AM: Always interesting, if you like words (and I do). Thanks. "Google", you say? Google isn't the source of my information, only the warehouse (so to speak). The first source I quoted was Mr Davy himself. But maybe you meant Wikipedia; a lot of people express varying amounts of derision when they hear Wikipedia mentioned. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The arguments against state-controlled churches apply with equal force to state-run schools. No free society allows the state to claim authority over the mind. -Joseph Sobran */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 18:19 Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is almost the same story: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
And therefore the question as to what you're talking about. You seem to be conflating a search engine with an online encyclopedia for some reason. So we're left wondering what it is you really mean. Wikipedia itself says it's not an academic reference, and actually no encyclopedia is. It is adequate for the purposes of IBM-MAIN, however. sas On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:26 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: > Bob, > > I was referring to your "Wikipedia > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name:" > quote when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write > just about anything into google. Most teachers will not allow quotes > from google due to the mess that google is in. > > The people at Merrian-Webster have always been considered authoritative. > If we can't trust the people that produce of the the top dictionaries, > then we are lost. > > In this case, I was saying that "here is a much more authoritative site > that backs up most of the story posted on google." > > Tony Thigpen > > Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 2:04 AM: > > Always interesting, if you like words (and I do). Thanks. > > > > "Google", you say? Google isn't the source of my information, only the > warehouse (so to speak). The first source I quoted was Mr Davy himself. > But maybe you meant Wikipedia; a lot of people express varying amounts of > derision when they hear Wikipedia mentioned. > > > > --- > > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > > > /* The arguments against state-controlled churches apply with equal > force to state-run schools. No free society allows the state to claim > authority over the mind. -Joseph Sobran */ > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen > > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 18:19 > > > > Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is > > almost the same story: > > > > https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium > > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
We are no more immune to Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds than any other country, and our society has massive conformity in many areas. Even many who want to rebel find a marginal group to rebel in conformity with. People accept the most ludicrous claims because others in their in group accept them. Koolaid, anybody? As to SI units, there are practical reasons for adopting them. Do we really want to stick with a system of units that few of us understand, with the same name denoting different quantities depending on context? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tony Thigpen [t...@vse2pdf.com] Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 7:41 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Wayne, We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that 'fit' into the new perception of reality. It is humorous that the meter was originally defined to be one ten millionth of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator through Paris. Or that the kilogram was originally defined as the mass of a man-made artifact of platinum-iridium held in a specific laboratory in France. It appears that the whole SI system was a system to make France the center of the universe. :-) Tony Thigpen Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: > Current international agreement for all new elements is to end them with > -ium. > > Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI > units while I was at school in the 1960s. > > Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that > isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. > > And Webster, whilst described as an anglophile gave you center instead of > centre, defense instead of defence... > > Not sure why saying an abacus is a computer makes me insane:) The best > joker wore a mask. > > > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:19 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: > >> Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is >> almost the same story: >> >> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1pIHfKwEyRKXQ258d6HQn6pXUesJTG2ibsqShT6MRYhV9r4fUKEdk9EpqHJwml6iAcP62SzIC3uZkRzKBr2xFFIvxxdrq3FJOEo5YJpHdsTZL_IkvdhsdpPU_emKLXtEo0jOyWZi52wCFJoHhj57fg6pahAkz7uHKMjYBLrCPzfJH16RCdPZUmdUJv0SpiLPWvn8jpo3ft44amIQPJisLmwO1OOZIG63LdJVOv2kBOiuA2Ipj-_RmUn5F1hCqvWXtHFB_DSXpN6qgLMysEGbxRCQZmOJTQGpy2_xgVa9lJ9gK-tYUGDm0p6-K2y9hhAPN45yb1dspz2Cz13TqP0qZ0OHjYLIEBVaQxmojGC-2VlBIpe-MBFS2ZKWsNddCSJ9YTVE_Q42TOEjLV-e9hzuDQfKzDcBF1IPqnTdgnYvMQfDqc4GDojyBrhcrbMPlu1SBOJwYIYlN4NGPdzFscEshLA/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.merriam-webster.com%2Fwords-at-play%2Faluminum-vs-aluminium >> >> Tony Thigpen >> >> Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: >>> Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the >> great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. >> At https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ&pg=PA201 you can find a >> page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first >> isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a >> metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). >> Wikipedia >> (https://secure-web.cisco.com/1o6jW0bqoJQZaMyasPgxtzBf_1f444E0jC_JhX8hRoMJuqwbXVk8hQt14kOFIaHV1WtTiLzRUoR0Veuz7o0GDCSEupyT9FPsCpb-FjYXsZtaEoOd_oUCq--prwLBmDIxl3sPQU6dN3PT0G6KSrj7Oxh3B2stsVoQPwiFnRswppFy89Zg0YgQD4xXrkcxI0-IFFPUvAnNrqtGX2dwdAo02cIdQQskgySknoXpD5je9yGqHXOV5DlltC7iczjDJ45NW67kHGiQ4cRXdwKV7hvNF_sJtT7yOdOGGeHpOfePCkYOBi_qGp4vlrx8JFZcB_2D1t_gi66X_CgDb_0hK5om0PY9ap9gh-SWfoq3TEZIJRX9C7MBC5WYC0AQhqc-0ItOy-So75wqar6z_d0D3x0GxhuimV3l6hrGm3bRD0YMJ1h6RRjkSXmKnPUrFOZlleSuI/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAluminium%29 >> says this about the >> name: >>> >>> "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments >> aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the >> element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on >> his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical >> Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by >> contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the >> metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be >> isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled >> on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. Howeve
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
This is a fun Monday discussion. :-) I did not say anything about decimal arithmetic, either for nor against. I was discussing this fad called SI and how it was a standard looking for a base. The fact that it uses base-10 arithmetic may add to it's popularity, but that is only one small part of the 'standard'. Tony Thigpen Martin Packer wrote on 7/20/20 8:13 AM: So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars and cents? :-) Cheers, Martin (GDAR) Martin Packer zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/or https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Tony Thigpen To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List Wayne, We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that 'fit' into the new perception of reality. It is humorous that the meter was originally defined to be one ten millionth of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator through Paris. Or that the kilogram was originally defined as the mass of a man-made artifact of platinum-iridium held in a specific laboratory in France. It appears that the whole SI system was a system to make France the center of the universe. :-) Tony Thigpen Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: Current international agreement for all new elements is to end them with -ium. Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. And Webster, whilst described as an anglophile gave you center instead of centre, defense instead of defence... Not sure why saying an abacus is a computer makes me insane:) The best joker wore a mask. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:19 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is almost the same story: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.merriam-2Dwebster.com_words-2Dat-2Dplay_aluminum-2Dvs-2Daluminium&d=DwICaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ&m=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4&s=d8pDAilSCrc1YYJmjeWxtvdn0nnvwLb91ZjhFuTbnY4&e= Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. At https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__books.google.com_books-3Fid-3DYjMwYAAJ-26pg-3DPA201&d=DwICaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ&m=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4&s=LFMQJaJldrcYU7-Opl-zMJAqNhkfZwMUsGgs1X_N_kU&e= you can find a page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). Wikipedia ( https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Aluminium&d=DwICaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ&m=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4&s=gpcu8EXVajvDZsGWOQJp093GxumoNwb58qtlFORxwu4&e= ) says this about the name: "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." That sounds plausible to me. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It's ok to doubt your beliefs; but it's not ok to bel
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
So you don't rate decimal arithmetic? :-) So how do you explain dollars and cents? :-) Cheers, Martin (GDAR) Martin Packer zChampion, Systems Investigator & Performance Troubleshooter, IBM +44-7802-245-584 email: martin_pac...@uk.ibm.com Twitter / Facebook IDs: MartinPacker Blog: https://mainframeperformancetopics.com Podcast Series (With Marna Walle): https://developer.ibm.com/tv/mpt/or https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/mainframe-performance-topics/id1127943573?mt=2 Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu_65HaYgksbF6Q8SQ4oOvA From: Tony Thigpen To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Date: 20/07/2020 12:41 Subject:[EXTERNAL] Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years? Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List Wayne, We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that 'fit' into the new perception of reality. It is humorous that the meter was originally defined to be one ten millionth of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator through Paris. Or that the kilogram was originally defined as the mass of a man-made artifact of platinum-iridium held in a specific laboratory in France. It appears that the whole SI system was a system to make France the center of the universe. :-) Tony Thigpen Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: > Current international agreement for all new elements is to end them with > -ium. > > Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI > units while I was at school in the 1960s. > > Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that > isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. > > And Webster, whilst described as an anglophile gave you center instead of > centre, defense instead of defence... > > Not sure why saying an abacus is a computer makes me insane:) The best > joker wore a mask. > > > > > On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:19 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: > >> Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is >> almost the same story: >> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.merriam-2Dwebster.com_words-2Dat-2Dplay_aluminum-2Dvs-2Daluminium&d=DwICaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ&m=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4&s=d8pDAilSCrc1YYJmjeWxtvdn0nnvwLb91ZjhFuTbnY4&e= >> >> Tony Thigpen >> >> Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: >>> Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the >> great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. >> At https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__books.google.com_books-3Fid-3DYjMwYAAJ-26pg-3DPA201&d=DwICaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ&m=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4&s=LFMQJaJldrcYU7-Opl-zMJAqNhkfZwMUsGgs1X_N_kU&e= you can find a >> page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first >> isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a >> metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). >> Wikipedia ( https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__en.wikipedia.org_wiki_Aluminium&d=DwICaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=BsPGKdq7-Vl8MW2-WOWZjlZ0NwmcFSpQCLphNznBSDQ&m=BT2zj1sgx0Ufo7xAfOAn2evt5Ihizark8xEHfcPHsz4&s=gpcu8EXVajvDZsGWOQJp093GxumoNwb58qtlFORxwu4&e= ) says this about the >> name: >>> >>> "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments >> aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the >> element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on >> his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical >> Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by >> contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the >> metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be >> isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled >> on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling >> and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and >> Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." >>> >>> That sounds plausible to me. >>> >>> --- >>> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 >>> >>> /* It's ok
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Wayne, We are an independent sort of people. We don't blindly follow others after the latest fad, like SI units. SI units are not really built on something real, but instead are a unit that looked for a base item that 'fit' into the new perception of reality. It is humorous that the meter was originally defined to be one ten millionth of the distance between the North Pole and the Equator through Paris. Or that the kilogram was originally defined as the mass of a man-made artifact of platinum-iridium held in a specific laboratory in France. It appears that the whole SI system was a system to make France the center of the universe. :-) Tony Thigpen Wayne Bickerdike wrote on 7/20/20 12:50 AM: Current international agreement for all new elements is to end them with -ium. Odd how the USA hangs on to impractical learnings. Even the UK moved to SI units while I was at school in the 1960s. Took me a while to get used to a gallon that isn't a gallon and a pint that isn't a pint (16 oz vs 20 oz.). You also short changed the ton by 240 lbs. And Webster, whilst described as an anglophile gave you center instead of centre, defense instead of defence... Not sure why saying an abacus is a computer makes me insane:) The best joker wore a mask. On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:19 AM Tony Thigpen wrote: Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is almost the same story: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. At https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ&pg=PA201 you can find a page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name: "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." That sounds plausible to me. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* It's ok to doubt your beliefs; but it's not ok to believe your doubts. -Jim Snider, pastor, 2000-12-10 */ -Original Message- From: Bob Bridges [mailto:robhbrid...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 17:34 Aha! Yet a third story; in this one Davy started out with "aluminum" and the Europeans ~added~ the 'i'. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Monk Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 07:22 The British Scientist (Davy) who discovered ALUMINUM named it that. It is we Americans who are using the correct name ... the British press felt that it should be in line with sodium and potassium and thus added to the spelling. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Bob, I was referring to your "Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name:" quote when I said that google is not an authority. Anybody can write just about anything into google. Most teachers will not allow quotes from google due to the mess that google is in. The people at Merrian-Webster have always been considered authoritative. If we can't trust the people that produce of the the top dictionaries, then we are lost. In this case, I was saying that "here is a much more authoritative site that backs up most of the story posted on google." Tony Thigpen Bob Bridges wrote on 7/20/20 2:04 AM: Always interesting, if you like words (and I do). Thanks. "Google", you say? Google isn't the source of my information, only the warehouse (so to speak). The first source I quoted was Mr Davy himself. But maybe you meant Wikipedia; a lot of people express varying amounts of derision when they hear Wikipedia mentioned. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The arguments against state-controlled churches apply with equal force to state-run schools. No free society allows the state to claim authority over the mind. -Joseph Sobran */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 18:19 Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is almost the same story: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium --- Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the great "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. At https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ&pg=PA201 you can find a page in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first isolated aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a metal to be found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name: "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed to isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. In 1808, he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on his electrochemical research which was published in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society. This suggestion was criticized by contemporary chemists from France, Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be named for the oxide, alumina, from which it would be isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry textbook in which he settled on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern name. However, its spelling and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in the United States and Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." That sounds plausible to me. -Original Message- From: Bob Bridges [mailto:robhbrid...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 17:34 Aha! Yet a third story; in this one Davy started out with "aluminum" and the Europeans ~added~ the 'i'. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe Monk Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 07:22 The British Scientist (Davy) who discovered ALUMINUM named it that. It is we Americans who are using the correct name ... the British press felt that it should be in line with sodium and potassium and thus added to the spelling. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: OOBOL and English was Re: Still COBOL After All These Years?
Always interesting, if you like words (and I do). Thanks. "Google", you say? Google isn't the source of my information, only the warehouse (so to speak). The first source I quoted was Mr Davy himself. But maybe you meant Wikipedia; a lot of people express varying amounts of derision when they hear Wikipedia mentioned. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The arguments against state-controlled churches apply with equal force to state-run schools. No free society allows the state to claim authority over the mind. -Joseph Sobran */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Thigpen Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 18:19 Personally, I prefer a more authoritative source than Google, but it is almost the same story: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/aluminum-vs-aluminium --- Bob Bridges wrote on 7/19/20 6:09 PM: > Because I know you were all breathlessly awaiting the verdict on the great > "aluminum"/"aluminium" controversy, I went to find more information. At > https://books.google.com/books?id=YjMwYAAJ&pg=PA201 you can find a page > in _Elements of Chemical Philosophy_ by Humphrey Davy (who first isolated > aluminum), published in 1812; here he talks about "aluminum" (a metal to be > found in alumina, which in turn was processed from alum). Wikipedia > (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium) says this about the name: > > "British chemist Humphry Davy, who performed a number of experiments aimed to > isolate the metal, is credited as the person who named the element. In 1808, > he suggested the metal be named alumium in an article on his electrochemical > research which was published in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal > Society. This suggestion was criticized by contemporary chemists from France, > Germany, and Sweden, who insisted the metal should be named for the oxide, > alumina, from which it would be isolated. In 1812, Davy published a chemistry > textbook in which he settled on the name aluminum, thus producing the modern > name. However, its spelling and pronunciation varies: aluminum is in use in > the United States and Canada while aluminium is in use elsewhere." > > That sounds plausible to me. > > -Original Message- > From: Bob Bridges [mailto:robhbrid...@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 17:34 > > Aha! Yet a third story; in this one Davy started out with "aluminum" and the > Europeans ~added~ the 'i'. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Joe Monk > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2020 07:22 > > The British Scientist (Davy) who discovered ALUMINUM named it that. It is > we Americans who are using the correct name ... the British press felt that > it should be in line with sodium and potassium and thus added to the > spelling. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN