The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Ah, by charismatic you meant cultish. I've always used the Charismatic
Movement to refer to the movement in Christianity which emphasizes
gifts of the spirit (charisma) such as speaking in tongues.
. I can’t help but view the Ruhi movement as being something
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Hi Friends,
My question regarding Charisma and Ruhi is due to spotting this definition
in Wikipedia under the listing for New Religious Movements. If you replace
the word cult with the word movement you get what they refer to as the
social model. I can¹t help but
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
On 20/08/2012 3:42 AM, Skygram wrote:
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Susan,
Could Ruhi be defined as a Charismatic movement within the Baha'i Faith?
Bill
Probably in some countries YES, but not all countries or places.
Best
s Listserv
> Susan,
>
> Could Ruhi be defined as a Charismatic movement within the Baha'i Faith?
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> __
> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:sman...@gmail.com
&
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Susan,
Could Ruhi be defined as a Charismatic movement within the Baha'i Faith?
Bill
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to
mail
The Baha'i Studies Listserv
Should you undercover Muslims posing as Baha'is do ruhi courses instead of
spreading covenant breaker material on the Internet
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.
since 2k has been
> totallly telling people they have a right to not like ruhi, but
> >wishes< that those who don't like it either shushhh or engage in
> meaningful development of alternatives.
Actually we were pretty much discouraged from developing alternatives.
irendfs
would all give institute coures a try, >hoped that a large % would like and
promulgate such, and since 2k has been totallly telling people they have a
right to not like ruhi, but >wishes< that those who don't like it either
shushhh or engage in meaningful development of
2007 1:29 am
Subject: UHJ on Ruhi
To: Baha'i Studies
> I may be wrong, but I believe the current attitude of the House is
> that Ruhi
> isn't for everyone and that if a person doesn't like it they don't
> have to
> do it. I want to clarify this is correct
You should br supportive, but are not forced to participate.
- Original Message -
From: "David Friedman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Baha'i Studies"
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:25 AM
Subject: UHJ on Ruhi
> I may be wrong, but I believe the current
I may be wrong, but I believe the current attitude of the House is that Ruhi
isn't for everyone and that if a person doesn't like it they don't have to
do it. I want to clarify this is correct. If it is I'm wondering if this
is just all they feel prudent to say, that they
so obviously false is the correct answer...
to aswer david, ...possibly learning to >listen< as a vague glimpse of what
consultation will b like when ever it is its turn to become manifest is a ruhi
goal.
as a facilitator, i know which book is mine in a stack becuase nothing is ever
wri
> accelerated courses ignore completely the praxis.
Dear Hasan,
And that's why when "A" clusters are created by using accelerated
courses without implementing the practices growth does not occur. It's
self-defeating. If Ruhi is anything at all, it *is* the prac
> There are many examples like these. Maybe a facilitator, out of
> courtesy, would not say
> "That answer is wrong", but an answer can still be wrong or
> right, even if no one calls it that.
> The notion that there are no right or wrong answers may hold
> for some open ended questions, b
accelerated courses ignore completely the praxis. I am at book 2 for that
reason and because i cant find people.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió: > What kind of cult would the Faith be if you were
allowed to do
> that;-?!
Seriously, taking the courses by yourself would destroy their whole
purpose
Hi Susan,
>there are not supposed to be any right or
>wrong answers (despite the fact the questions are close-ended.
I wonder where the myth began that there are no right or wrong answers in
the Ruhi method. Clearly there are right and wrong answers. For example:
> What kind of cult would the Faith be if you were allowed to do
> that;-?!
Seriously, taking the courses by yourself would destroy their whole
purpose which is not to teach us certain things but to get us as a
community *doing* certain things. So the books are useless without the
practices. A
Since I don't really learn anything or
> enjoy Ruhi I
> was wondering if there is some way one can 'do' a course without
> going in a
> course with others.
Would I be able to do it in my own time and
> write my
> answers in the book and then get it chec
What kind of cult would the Faith be if you were allowed to do that;-?!
David Friedman wrote:
In order to advance to an A cluster a certain number of people must
complete a few of the courses. Since I don't really learn anything or
enjoy Ruhi I was wondering if there is some way one ca
In order to advance to an A cluster a certain number of people must complete
a few of the courses. Since I don't really learn anything or enjoy Ruhi I
was wondering if there is some way one can 'do' a course without going in a
course with others. Would I be able to do it in
Yes,
thanks. That is the letter I was looking for.
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named abo
Susan,
Is this the letter you mean? I found it at:
http://bahai-library.com/?file=uhj_training_institutes
With warm regards,
Tim Nolan
Training Institutes
by Universal House of Justice2001-05-31Dear Bahá'í Friend, Your letter dated 30 April 2001 has been received by the Unive
Dear friends,
I'm trying to locate that letter from the Universal House of Justice in
response to someone who couldn't relate to Ruhi. Could someone repost that
here since we no longer have easy access to our archives?
warmest, Susan
The information contained in this e-ma
Dear
Janine and Sandra,
I have
seen a reference in a document of the Counsellors of the Americas to junior
youth books wherein they say that the youth should start Book One at age 15.
Personally, I rather see all the Baha'is do these books between the ages of
12-15 and then move on to ad
Sandra wrote: It has also been stated here in Alaska that Jr.Youth should not take the Ruhi course but, instead take the course (patterned after Ruhi) especially for Youth. I'm not sure what that is called. I'm curious if it is the same elsewhere. Regardless, it is only offere
Sandra wrote: It has also been stated here in Alaska that Jr.Youth should not take the Ruhi course but, instead take the course (patterned after Ruhi) especially for Youth. I'm not sure what that is called. I'm curious if it is the same elsewhere. Regardless, it is only offere
rouble with the material. I figure Ruhi is pretty straightforward, and written in a concrete reasoning kindof way. I certainly see no reason why it has to be watered down for youth. Ihave never seen a youth who could not grasp it. As it is, my daughter has finished all the available books but 5, and is
" It has
also been stated here in Alaska that Jr.Youth should not take
the Ruhi course but, instead take the course (patterned after
Ruhi) especially for Youth."
Dear Sandra,
I don't quite get that, nor have I seen anything like it in the lower 48. My
experience is that children
I completely agree about Ruhi and youth.
Here is my post from 2001:
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m29288.html
Unfortunately from then to now there hasn't been a Book 2
offering in our community as many others became enthusiastic
and there have been several more Book 1 study ci
Ruhi does seem to work also for those with an interest in the faith, though not for every seeker. But the majority of people I have talked to over the internet and in my own community who have declared themselves Bahais in the last 2 years had done a Ruhi course which had a strong impact on their
"Why then are we encouraged and sometimes sort of forced to enroll for these
courses? Is it just to increase statistics?"
Nope. So we can tutor them.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
To unsubscribe, se
Susan:
"Exactly. And we do need to keep in mind that Ruhi wasn't designed for us,
it was designed to consolidate mass enrollments."
Dear Susan,
Why then are we encouraged and sometimes sort of forced to
enroll for these courses? Is it just to increase statistics?
before.
Exactly. And we do need to keep in mind that Ruhi wasn't designed for us,
it was designed to consolidate mass enrollments.
warmest, Susan
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
To unsubscri
In a message dated 1/21/2005 3:17:42 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear Scott,
It strikes me that Ruhi is really ideal for older children and youth.
warmest, Susan
It strucketh me that way as well, Susan. My daughter Juliet, my wife and myself were the first to
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:16:33 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
My younger daughter has blossomed with it as well. I have no doubt it
does good, I also have no doubt it is not sufficient to itself for
all.
Dear Scott,
It strikes me that Ruhi is really
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:04:55 P.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As for
me, I sat and suffered through one session of Ruhi and was ready to putgun
to my head after that. So it may not be for an old dog like me, but as
Isaid it was God-sent for my son.
Dear
In a message dated 1/21/2005 2:04:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As for me, I sat and suffered through one session of Ruhi and was ready to putgun to my head after that. So it may not be for an old dog like me, but as Isaid it was God-sent for my son.Regards, Ahang
I think Ruhi was God-sent for my 16 yr old son. He used to be a shy, introvert
teenager with a wishy-washy knowledge of the Faith, and when he came to
meetings almost never said anything or was not engaged in any other way. He
went through all the Ruhi books and is now an enormously confident
"I am now tempted to leave this subject because, well,
I dunno. Maybe I have a feeling it is not a subject
pleasant to all. Not that we only should talk about
things we feel comfortable with. At the same time I do
not think it is wise to push a subject when it gets on
the nerves of people."
Dear
"It has not yet reached that level here in Ireland, as
far as I am aware. What things is one not eligible for
in the USA atthe moment if one has not done a certain
ruhi book?"
Dear Janine,
I only know of two things that Ruhi was made a requirement for. One was was
homefront pioneeri
I want to thank everybody for giving your views and
ideas on this subject. For letting me know what is
happening in other countries, mainly USA and Thailand.
It has enhanced my understanding big time and my
ability to understand what a person who does not like
ruhi may sense as pitfalls and
--Susan wrote:
>
> If what you are trying to say is that an LSA can
> establish any prerequisite
> it wishes, I would agree.
that is what i want to say.
But when Ruhi books are
> made prerequisites for
> certain types of service it is decreasing, rather
> than increas
It has not yet reached that level here in Ireland, as
far as I am aware. What things is one not eligible for
in the USA atthe moment if one has not done a certain
ruhi book?
much love,
janine
--- Susan Maneck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> " It sometimes seems to me that t
d, I can understand why an LSA would do this. if
there are not enough teachers for childrens classes
already, and the LSA does think that someone who has
done ruhi book 3 and has other skills and
characteristics as well which are needed, is a better
teacher, I can understand to stop something
temp
Dear Firouz,
What do you think I am saying?
YOu see, I think I was stating that nobody would send
their children to a school where the teachers had no
official qualifications.
I thought I was also saying that someone who has a
certain qualification, be that ruhi book 3 or a degree
in
"I maintain that it is a job. And that the lsa is a
body who has to decide who is qualified and who is
not."
Dear Janine,
If what you are trying to say is that an LSA can establish any prerequisite
it wishes, I would agree. But when Ruhi books are made prerequisites for
certain types
urses if one has not
taken certain books that 'count'. The problem is that authorized Ruhi Study
Circles have been made prerequisites for other things. And the institutions
care if they count.
warmest, Susan
__
You are subscribed to Baha
t the point is that doing 1 or 2
Ruhi courses does not make one professional in teaching children classes. I
have done book 3 (just out of obediance to our institutions) but believe me
I cannot handle a children class. I am not so good with children education
even though I am actually in academic
; education, that is their right. Personally, I think
> it
> is shortsighted, but if people feel this way, then
> they feel this way. If an LSA feels only one who has
> done Ruhi book 3 can teach children, then they are
> entitled to decide so."
>
> Dear Janine,
>
> In
Tim,
At 08:21 PM 1/20/2005, you wrote:
>>I think anyone can have a study circle, you don't need anyone's permission or
>>approval. It may be that such an unofficial study circle will not "count",
>>but so what?<<
Whether they "count" is
missing the point. I am not saying you are
doing this Susan, of course not. But I have observed
a lot of stress being put on only doing "official"
study circles that "count". That's sad.
If a group of people is unable to attend an "official" study circle,
I think
Hi Susan,
I do not completely agree with you.
It seems in your area and community that at this
moment larger devotionals not in a home of a person is
the thing to do.
The purpose of holding devotionals in your home is not
so you invite everybody you meet on the street, but
that you invite you
"if an LSA considers someone only qualified to be a
teacher to a childrens class who has done a course in
education, that is their right. Personally, I think it
is shortsighted, but if people feel this way, then
they feel this way. If an LSA feels only one who has
done Ruhi book 3 can
qualified to be a
teacher to a childrens class who has done a course in
education, that is their right. Personally, I think it
is shortsighted, but if people feel this way, then
they feel this way. If an LSA feels only one who has
done Ruhi book 3 can teach children, then they are
entitled to decide so
difficulties I find and that is that one of >the
principal publishers of the Ruhi materials is Palabra Publications >which
is associated with Paul Lample who is one of the staunchest >supporters and
promoters of the Study Circle "engine" on the ITC. I >wonder too if there
are royalty
omposed of professional educators and long term child's education Baha`is. It would be a pompous decision indeed to assum that those professionals and veterans of Core Curriculum training would be incompetent to teach because they had not taken book 3 or 5 of the Ruhi system
R
Janine:
"You may be right that you might not be considered qualified to give
childrens classes if you have not done book 3. And that is a perfectly
legitimate decision of any LSA to make."
Dear Janine,
Here I cannot agree with you. There have been and there are excellent
children class teachers wh
purpose of my letter instead, one I think is much
more urgent than the question of Ruhi in any case. I like to pick my battles
and Ruhi is one I suspect I will lose. Hell, even my son is against me when
it comes to that. He likes Ruhi.
warmest, Susan
" I think some people are more interested in a small group than others. It
may be that in your area a devotional in a house does not work, but one
cannot know that for certain until at least 4 or 5 people have tried it on a
regular basis. "
Dear Janine,
We don't have much choice where I live beca
of the Core Curriculum existed prior to theStudy Circles and was then modified to meet the House's criteria for a basicsequence of courses. But Ruhi got a head start here because it was the onlyone which met the House's criteria already. Therefore the Institutes werethen packed with pro-
Dear Susan,
you are right I have not seen any statistics ;o)
I think a devotional meeting is not passing the prayer book around. I think it is creating a devotional atmosphere. I usually print out some quotes and prayers and try to make it as diverse as possible, with prayers from different r
Susan:I hate deepening classes that treat me like a child. That is probably whyneither Ruhi or Core Curriculum appeal to me much. When the scissors and crayons come out I'm gone. But maybe that is just because I can't cut or color. ;-}
JS:
I feel the same way. Why can't we have s
"I remember when I did book 6, I had a problem with one of the editorial
comments about one of the quotations."
Dear Firouz,
I've had problems this way as well, though I've never done Book 6. But one
Baha'i insisted I wasn't giving firesides right because I wasn't keeping it
simple like Book 6 sa
Anybody can set up a study circle. We can always refer back to the UHJ
letters to bakc that up.
Dear Janine,
I know that, but it won't get counted as fulfilling any goals.
"So if Ruhi is not working in the USA, and counsellors go around telling
things which are not based in truth,
I thought there is Core in the USA. Is that not considered an alternative?
Dear Janine,
The Fundamental Verities portion of the Core Curriculum existed prior to the
Study Circles and was then modified to meet the House's criteria for a basic
sequence of courses. But Ruhi got a head start
" maybe I have understood it not correctly. But I got the idea from letters
by the UHJ that the institute process consists of study circles, childrens
classes and devotionals. Maybe I got that wrong."
Dear Janine,
No, those are the three core activities of the Five Year Plan. The hope is
that the
Book 6 gave me a scenario for the subjects which are
most important to be brought up in talking to another
about the bahai faith (I happen to agree with the
importance of the subjects book 6 suggest) and also
gave me a manner, a way of speakign and being with a
person one wants to tell about the B
"I never suggested any actual
impropriety, what I asked for was that the Ruhi Institute materials be
placed in the public digital domain, in order to avoid/mitigate any
semblance of impropriety,"
The problem Steve, is that I don't think anyone saw any semblance of
impropriety unti
Dear janine,
Thanks again for your reply. Talking about Adib Taherzadeh, I would like to
comment that I do admire him. I had an opportunity to meet him during my
pilgrimage in 1996 and I really did enjoy talking with him and listening to
him. In fact I should say that I have met quite a number
Janine and James et al,
Your in danger of falling off your high horses. I never suggested any actual
impropriety, what I asked for was that the Ruhi Institute materials be
placed in the public digital domain, in order to avoid/mitigate any
semblance of impropriety, any possibility of pecuniary
be self-defeating.Seekers want to attend worship services at neutral venues."If I offer the ruhi book 1 to a friend, I will ask forfeedback of that friend, and if the friend is nothappy with the method, I will ask what she feels aboutthe quotes. If she is happy with the quotes, I willask
ultiplying' suchmeetings. If that means holding them more frequently a!
nd
regularly, well andgood. But if it means we divide our resources so that we are having lots oflittle meetings at individuals homes, I think it will be self-defeating.Seekers want to attend worship services at neutral ve
dearest friend.
much love,
janineKhazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Can I beg you all most humbly most supplicatingly to leave this sort ofdiscussion about discussion about slander about Ruhi? I have noted suchdiscussions become rapidly very very divisive. It can sunder and
Anybody can set up a study circle. We can always refer back to the UHJ letters to bakc that up.
To be a recognised ruhi facillitator, one has to do book 7 and in some countries, Ireland for example, this one cannot do before one has done book 1,2,3,4,6.
but to set up any study circle one
ative curriculum, that means Ruhi.
The Southern Regiona Council has released a pamphlet for homefront pioneers that states this quite clearly, Susan.
Regards,
Scott__ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscri
. And sometimes a doubtful approach is interpreted by Bahais as close to covenant breaking. Someone in my community said, after hearing that some people I knew on the internet had great difficulty with that ruhi is now so much promoted and questioned the wisdom of that, she said: that is covenant
Hi, Khazeh,
At 12:16 AM 1/19/2005, Khazeh Fananapazir wrote:
>>I do not know what is about Ruhi but it does rapidly generate these tensions
>>when discussed and discussed [not when implemented perhaps]. One can study
>>texts the Revealed Word as I am doing as John Smith is
eetings. If that means holding them more frequently and regularly, well and
good. But if it means we divide our resources so that we are having lots of
little meetings at individuals homes, I think it will be self-defeating.
Seekers want to attend worship services at neutral venues.
"If I offer
Can I beg you all most humbly most supplicatingly to leave this sort of
discussion about discussion about slander about Ruhi? I have noted such
discussions become rapidly very very divisive. It can sunder and divide a
most dear friend from a post code in nz from one in Ireland...or one from
"I have always believed the books can be adapted."
Dear Janine,
This seems to be the position of Dr. Arbab himself, from what I've heard.
But when I've suggested it in the states, I got two responses. One was that
the material was copyrighted and therefore couldn't be changed. The other
response
sure.
lets all get down to a sceptical approach and throw
away all trust and faith. do you know Paul Lample
personally or anybody on the ruhi institute in
colombia?
Maybe then the world will change
you have to be careful. Because this post in my
opinion is slanderous.
janine van rooij
Dear Susan,
One does not exclude the other. I also feel that your
interpretation of what Abdu'l-Baha is trying to do is
too narrow. I think it does apply not only to assembly
members, but to all of the community. I will later
post some quotes for the reason why I think this, when
I am back at a m
Hi Scott,
none of these are the passage I was thinking of I
will try to find it and post it here.
for me there is a lot in Selections of the Writings of
Abdu;l-Baha that indicate how important unity is among
the believers, not only when they are assembly
members.
To support a decision of
.
Book 3 taught me that a bit as well, because what it
says about how to treat children is very much
applicable to adults. To everybody.
Book 4 was fun to do but did not teach me much. I am
good at story telling and holding on to facts and I
knew a lot of the history already.
The social aspe
It can be very lonely being a Bahai.
I wish you much strength and love,
Janine van rooij
To be LONELY is almost essential in being a Bahai
Thou seest this Wronged One LONELY in exile: Where are the hosts of the
heaven of Thy Command, O Sovereign of the worlds?
(Baha'u'llah: B
:o)
I must admit i was in a slightly provocative mood when
I made that statement.
The thing is, what I often see people call a fireside
I don't think is a fireside at all. It is an official
talk about what one person thinks the bahai faith is
saying about a certain topic.
But then, I am a pers
ng suggested should be done. Being also a member
> of a LSA, I see very
> similar attitude among the members of LSA. I do hope
> somehow that all
> friends become more and more deepened by Ruhi or
> otherwise. Personally I do
> not count much on Ruhi.
>
> At this time I have jus
Susan: In fact
> I was just thinking
> about just how visceral my reaction to Ruhi was;
> that I open the book and
> almost feel it shouting at me, "We don't want you to
> think!" But my
> experience of this material is probably shaped, at
> least in part, by
ow that all
friends become more and more deepened by Ruhi or otherwise. Personally I do
not count much on Ruhi.
At this time I have just enough time to have a monthly fireside at my home
which I do prefer it to a study circle.
regards,
Firouz
Firouz,
I am sorry for your experiences. They do no
I gave out the wrong information.
The ruhi book method started at the same time as
everywhere else in the world, here in Ireland.
We were a year behind in dividing the country in
clusters.
So Ruhi is as long here as in other countries.
much love,
janine
Firouz,
I am sorry for your experiences. They do not seem to
be good.
A couple of years ago (2 I think) there was a
counsellor from Russia over in Ireland to attend a
non-Bahai conference. She told us that in her town the
LSA decided to offer the Ruhi book 1 as a personal
development course to
In a message dated 1/18/2005 5:37:32 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Also, I've heard Counsellor insist that tobe a homefront pioneer requires that one be prepared to set up studycircles, and in the absence of an alternative curriculum, that means Ruhi.
The Southern Re
erities program long before Ruhi
arrived on the scene. At the time, though, it didn't quite fit the House's
latest criteria for Study Circles. So the next few years were spent
modifying it for that purpose. Then when the revised program was ready to
launch it was torpedoed. What really bu
In a message dated 1/18/2005 11:47:47 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I have never felt that Ruhi has been "imposed" upon meonly that a process has been encouraged.
This avoids the fact that "Ruhi" is not the process. Study Circles are the process
In a message dated 1/18/2005 11:28:41 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think it would be more precise to say that Study Circles are about aProcess. Ruhi represents certain materials designed to further that process
I agree. Ruhi is a curriculum. I have done four books so
I have heard Dr. Arbab make remarks to this effect, however I think it was
Paul Lample who persuaded the NSA not to offer an alternative to Ruhi as
they had originally tried to do and even developed the materials for.
Paul is very aware of the tendency for the American community to become
The opposite would also be true. Areas where Baha'is are very active in
study circles might experience large-scale growth just because they have
active Baha'is to begin with, not because of Ruhi. I expect to see high
growth, for instance, in the triangle area of North Carolina whi
make remarks to this effect, however I think it was
Paul Lample who persuaded the NSA not to offer an alternative to Ruhi as
they had originally tried to do and even developed the materials for.
"This one has never seen on this list a condemnation of the Comprehensive
Deepening Materials (U
"Susan, it could be argued that our efforts, in general, have been less
effective in urban areasOne cannot be sure that Ruhi, itself, is less
effective than any other approach in urban areas."
Dear James,
Yes, if effectiveness is measured by an increase in human resources or entry
Yes, this is one of the difficulties I find and that is that one of the
principal publishers of the Ruhi materials is Palabra Publications which is
associated with Paul Lample who is one of the staunchest supporters and
promoters of the Study Circle "engine" on the ITC. I wonder too if
1 - 100 of 183 matches
Mail list logo
