subject:"\[Accessibility\-ia2\] IA2 1.3 ready for review"

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-07-20 Thread Pete Brunet

Thanks for checking Jamie.

The other thing I don't have any feedback on is the proxy dll:
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/proxy-dll/

Hopefully someone could verify that at some point.

Pete

On 7/19/13 1:41 AM, James Teh wrote:
 On 16/07/2013 11:09 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:
 The site is now updated:
 http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/
 Hopefully buildapi.sh and ia2_api_all.idl are OK now.
 The idl is now correct. Thanks!

 Jamie


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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-07-19 Thread James Teh


On 16/07/2013 11:09 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:

The site is now updated:
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/
Hopefully buildapi.sh and ia2_api_all.idl are OK now.

The idl is now correct. Thanks!

Jamie

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-07-16 Thread Pete Brunet

The site is now updated:
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/

Hopefully buildapi.sh and ia2_api_all.idl are OK now.

Pete

On 7/9/13 7:52 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
 We don't use merged IDL. I believe we build header files from IDLs.
 Alex.

 On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 3:23 AM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote:
 On 9/07/2013 5:13 PM, James Teh wrote:
 Now, the
 IDL includes Accessible2.idl before AccessibleRelation.idl, which breaks
 because IAccessible2 depends on IAccessibleRelation.
 Alex: I'm curious as to why you didn't hit this issue at Mozilla. Does
 Mozilla use the official merged IDL or do you generate your own?


 Jamie

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-07-09 Thread James Teh


On 9/07/2013 5:13 PM, James Teh wrote:

Now, the
IDL includes Accessible2.idl before AccessibleRelation.idl, which breaks
because IAccessible2 depends on IAccessibleRelation.
Alex: I'm curious as to why you didn't hit this issue at Mozilla. Does 
Mozilla use the official merged IDL or do you generate your own?


Jamie

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-07-09 Thread Pete Brunet

Thanks for finding this Jamie, I will submit to the LF help desk for
replacement.  -Pete

On 7/9/13 2:13 AM, James Teh wrote:
 On 22/04/2013 4:28 PM, James Teh wrote:
 There is a major problem with the merged IDL. It does not include the
 IAccessibleTable.idl file.

 This is now fixed, but unfortunately, there's more bad news. Now, the
 IDL includes Accessible2.idl before AccessibleRelation.idl, which
 breaks because IAccessible2 depends on IAccessibleRelation. It looks
 like buildapi.sh was changed to list all of the .idl files in
 alphabetical order. I suspect there will be other similar problems
 once AccessibleRelation is moved. I think it's best to return to the
 old order and just add the missing AccessibleTable.idl.

 I'm attaching a modified version of buildapi.sh which does just this.

 Jamie



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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-04-26 Thread Pete Brunet

Thank you for catching that Jamie.

On 4/21/13 6:18 PM, James Teh wrote:
 On 16/04/2013 7:15 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:
 The new version is now on the LF site at
 http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/.
 This page:
 http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/accessibility/iaccessible2

 still says 1.2.1, even though the links point to 1.3.

 Jamie


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Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-04-26 Thread Pete Brunet


On 4/26/13 12:43 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:
 Thanks Jamie, I've updated buildapi.sh.
but I haven't pushed it yet.  I'll wait until my conversation with Alex
is done.

 On 4/22/13 1:28 AM, James Teh wrote:
 Hi Pete,

 On 16/04/2013 7:15 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:
 The new version is now on the LF site at
 http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/.
 There is a major problem with the merged IDL. It does not include the
 IAccessibleTable.idl file. It seems this was removed from buildapi.sh
 in or before September last year when you released the initial
 version of 1.3 for review.

 Thanks,
 Jamie


 -- 
 *Pete Brunet*
 
 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
 Ionosphere: WS4G


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Skype: pete.brunet
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-04-22 Thread James Teh


Hi Pete,

On 16/04/2013 7:15 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:

The new version is now on the LF site at
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/.
There is a major problem with the merged IDL. It does not include the 
IAccessibleTable.idl file. It seems this was removed from buildapi.sh in 
or before September last year when you released the initial version of 
1.3 for review.


Thanks,
Jamie

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-04-21 Thread James Teh


On 16/04/2013 7:15 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:

The new version is now on the LF site at
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/.

This page:

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/accessibility/iaccessible2

still says 1.2.1, even though the links point to 1.3.

Jamie

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-04-15 Thread Pete Brunet

The new version is now on the LF site at
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/. I found a
couple of minor errors which I will fix soon. The proxy DLL hasn't been
verified yet.

Pete

On 4/9/13 10:32 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:
I opened a ticket with the LF admins to archive the 1.2.1 files and add
the 1.3 files. I hope someone can verify the new IA2 proxy. For now
it's at:
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Pete

On 3/15/13 10:58 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
Hopefully Jamie could help with that. I'd be great to have it early Q2.
Alex.

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:
On 3/14/13 11:03 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

I'm fine with that. I would say As a performant alternative or
something similar.

Btw, Pete, what is a plan about releasing?

I can have these files moved onto the Linux Foundation site at any point now
(after I make the fix we are talking about). I would like at least one
person to try the proxy dll before I do. Is there a date you are looking at
for getting this done?

Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

On 3/14/13 9:30 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete.

1) It makes sense to not deprecate IAccessible2::relations since it
can be useful for AT tools. In this case maxRelations argument is not
really needed and it can be marked as ignored but it's not big deal.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

I bet this method is in use in accProbe and aViewer already and it
must be pretty handy for them. If next IAccessible2 introduces more
relation types then tools developers don't need to change their code,
release new version, etc. On the another hand relation type is a
string so technically the server can implement non standard relations.
The method to get all of them is quite useful in this case.

Are there any objections to removing the deprecate tag on IA2::nRelations,
relation, relations and adding a note to the relations method saying: As an
alternative, client code should consider using IA2_2::relationTargetsOfType?

Thank you.
Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Hi Alex,

On 3/4/13 10:29 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete. More feedback.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

2) IAccessible2_2::accessibleWithCaret: Returns the hypertext
accessible in the subtree of this object, and the caret offset within
it. It doesn't say which object is returned. In my understanding it
should be the deepest one.

I changed that to: Returns the deepest hypertext accessible... Hopefully
Arnstein will comment if this is not correct.

3) Honestly I failed to understand IA2Actions
(http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/_accessible_action_8idl.html), it
seems referred methods like textAtOffset
(http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible_text.html#a9bd84b099ac7ce2435280549e90c8827)
say nothing about IA2Action support. I'd be great to provide an
example how it works. Otherwise it sounds too generic.

I'm glad you noticed this. The preamble text is wrong. I copied it from
IA2TextBoundaryType as a prototype and didn't finish the work. These are
the actions we defined for adding support for HTML5 media. I changed the
preamble text to:

/** This enum defines values which are predefined actions for use when
implementing
support for media.

This enum is used when specifying an action for
IAccessibleAction::doAction.
*/

4) changelog (http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/changelog.txt) lists
IA2_RELATION_GROUPING_OBJECT_FOR, IA2_RELATION_POPUP_INITIATOR_FOR
relations, however they aren't listed in interface
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/_accessible_relation_8idl.html

Fixed.

5) IA2_RELATION_CONTAINING_DOCUMENT: makes sense to mention that
returned object implements IAccessibleDocument interface.

I added: The target object implements the IAccessibleDocument interface.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks Alex, I refreshed the IA2 files

- The change log: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/changelog.txt
- IA2 spec: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/
- The individual IDL files: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/api/
or the full IDL file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/ia2_api_all.idl

Did anyone try the new proxy?
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Thank you.
Alex.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Please review the following. This should be the final unless updates are
needed.

- The change

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-04-15 Thread Alexander Surkov

Great news! Pete and all, thank you for the work!
Thank you.
Alex.

On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 6:15 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

The new version is now on the LF site at
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/. I found a
couple of minor errors which I will fix soon. The proxy DLL hasn't been
verified yet.

Pete

On 4/9/13 10:32 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:

I opened a ticket with the LF admins to archive the 1.2.1 files and add
the 1.3 files. I hope someone can verify the new IA2 proxy. For now
it's at:http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Pete

On 3/15/13 10:58 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hopefully Jamie could help with that. I'd be great to have it early Q2.
Alex.

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

On 3/14/13 11:03 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

I'm fine with that. I would say As a performant alternative or
something similar.

Btw, Pete, what is a plan about releasing?

Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

On 3/14/13 9:30 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

Thank you.
Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Hi Alex,

On 3/4/13 10:29 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete. More feedback.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

I changed that to: Returns the deepest hypertext accessible... Hopefully
Arnstein will comment if this is not correct.

/** This enum defines values which are predefined actions for use when
implementing
support for media.

This enum is used when specifying an action for
IAccessibleAction::doAction.
*/

4) changelog (http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/changelog.txt) lists
IA2_RELATION_GROUPING_OBJECT_FOR, IA2_RELATION_POPUP_INITIATOR_FOR
relations, however they aren't listed in
interfacehttp://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/_accessible_relation_8idl.html

Fixed.

5) IA2_RELATION_CONTAINING_DOCUMENT: makes sense to mention that
returned object implements IAccessibleDocument interface.

I added: The target object implements the IAccessibleDocument interface.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks Alex, I refreshed the IA2 files

Did anyone try the new proxy?

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-04-09 Thread Pete Brunet

I opened a ticket with the LF admins to archive the 1.2.1 files and add
the 1.3 files. I hope someone can verify the new IA2 proxy. For now
it's at:
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Pete

On 3/15/13 10:58 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
Hopefully Jamie could help with that. I'd be great to have it early Q2.
Alex.

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:
On 3/14/13 11:03 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

I'm fine with that. I would say As a performant alternative or
something similar.

Btw, Pete, what is a plan about releasing?

Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

On 3/14/13 9:30 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

Thank you.
Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Hi Alex,

On 3/4/13 10:29 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete. More feedback.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

I changed that to: Returns the deepest hypertext accessible... Hopefully
Arnstein will comment if this is not correct.

/** This enum defines values which are predefined actions for use when
implementing
support for media.

This enum is used when specifying an action for
IAccessibleAction::doAction.
*/

Fixed.

5) IA2_RELATION_CONTAINING_DOCUMENT: makes sense to mention that
returned object implements IAccessibleDocument interface.

I added: The target object implements the IAccessibleDocument interface.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks Alex, I refreshed the IA2 files

Did anyone try the new proxy?
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Thank you.
Alex.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Please review the following. This should be the final unless updates are
needed.

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-03-15 Thread Pete Brunet

On 3/14/13 11:03 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
I'm fine with that. I would say As a performant alternative or
something similar.

Btw, Pete, what is a plan about releasing?
I can have these files moved onto the Linux Foundation site at any point
now (after I make the fix we are talking about). I would like at least
one person to try the proxy dll before I do. Is there a date you are
looking at for getting this done?

Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:
On 3/14/13 9:30 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

Thank you.
Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Hi Alex,

On 3/4/13 10:29 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete. More feedback.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

I changed that to: Returns the deepest hypertext accessible... Hopefully
Arnstein will comment if this is not correct.

/** This enum defines values which are predefined actions for use when
implementing
support for media.

This enum is used when specifying an action for
IAccessibleAction::doAction.
*/

Fixed.

5) IA2_RELATION_CONTAINING_DOCUMENT: makes sense to mention that
returned object implements IAccessibleDocument interface.

I added: The target object implements the IAccessibleDocument interface.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks Alex, I refreshed the IA2 files

Did anyone try the new proxy?
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Thank you.
Alex.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Please review the following. This should be the final unless updates are
needed.

Pete

On 2/26/13 12:30 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:

If don't hear anything over the next couple of days, I'll assume this won't
be in 1.3 and I'll finish up the work I need to do to republish the spec on
a11ysoft.com for one more look at it before I get in touch with the Linux
Foundation IT guys to get it published there.

On 2/25/13 11:58 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Probably

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-03-15 Thread Alexander Surkov

Hopefully Jamie could help with that. I'd be great to have it early Q2.
Alex.

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

On 3/14/13 11:03 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

I'm fine with that. I would say As a performant alternative or
something similar.

Btw, Pete, what is a plan about releasing?

Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

On 3/14/13 9:30 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

Thank you.
Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Hi Alex,

On 3/4/13 10:29 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete. More feedback.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

I changed that to: Returns the deepest hypertext accessible... Hopefully
Arnstein will comment if this is not correct.

/** This enum defines values which are predefined actions for use when
implementing
support for media.

This enum is used when specifying an action for
IAccessibleAction::doAction.
*/

Fixed.

5) IA2_RELATION_CONTAINING_DOCUMENT: makes sense to mention that
returned object implements IAccessibleDocument interface.

I added: The target object implements the IAccessibleDocument interface.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks Alex, I refreshed the IA2 files

Did anyone try the new proxy?
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Thank you.
Alex.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Please review the following. This should be the final unless updates are
needed.

Pete

On 2/26/13 12:30 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:

If don't hear anything over the next couple of days, I'll assume this won't
be in 1.3 and I'll finish up the work I need to do to republish the spec on
a11ysoft.com for one

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-03-14 Thread Alexander Surkov

Hi, Pete.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

Thank you.
Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:
Hi Alex,

On 3/4/13 10:29 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete. More feedback.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

I changed that to: Returns the deepest hypertext accessible... Hopefully
Arnstein will comment if this is not correct.

/** This enum defines values which are predefined actions for use when
implementing
support for media.

This enum is used when specifying an action for
IAccessibleAction::doAction.
*/

Fixed.

5) IA2_RELATION_CONTAINING_DOCUMENT: makes sense to mention that
returned object implements IAccessibleDocument interface.

I added: The target object implements the IAccessibleDocument interface.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks Alex, I refreshed the IA2 files

Did anyone try the new proxy?
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Thank you.
Alex.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Please review the following. This should be the final unless updates are
needed.

Pete

On 2/26/13 12:30 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:

On 2/25/13 11:58 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Probably we should let IA2 1.3 go without addressing this issue. In
Firefox we still can use IA2 to expose it in non-standard way (like
new object attribute).
Alex.

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:49 PM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote:

On 26/02/2013 4:12 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:

So Is the following what you want? It moves the method from
IA2_2 to IAText2 thus resolving an issue for Jamie.
HRESULT IAccessibleText2::offsetOfChildText (
[in] IUnknown* child,
[out] long* offset
);

...

S_OK is returned if the parent accessible implements IAccessibleText.
S_FALSE is returned if the parent accessible does not implement
IAccessibleText; [out] value is -1.

This text needs to be changed for the new method.

That said, this certainly does look nicer to me. I

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-03-14 Thread Pete Brunet

On 3/14/13 9:30 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
Hi, Pete.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?
I bet this method is in use in accProbe and aViewer already and it
must be pretty handy for them. If next IAccessible2 introduces more
relation types then tools developers don't need to change their code,
release new version, etc. On the another hand relation type is a
string so technically the server can implement non standard relations.
The method to get all of them is quite useful in this case.
Are there any objections to removing the deprecate tag on
IA2::nRelations, relation, relations and adding a note to the relations
method saying: As an alternative, client code should consider using
IA2_2::relationTargetsOfType?

Thank you.
Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:
Hi Alex,

On 3/4/13 10:29 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete. More feedback.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

I changed that to: Returns the deepest hypertext accessible... Hopefully
Arnstein will comment if this is not correct.

/** This enum defines values which are predefined actions for use when
implementing
support for media.

This enum is used when specifying an action for
IAccessibleAction::doAction.
*/

Fixed.

5) IA2_RELATION_CONTAINING_DOCUMENT: makes sense to mention that
returned object implements IAccessibleDocument interface.

I added: The target object implements the IAccessibleDocument interface.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks Alex, I refreshed the IA2 files

Did anyone try the new proxy?
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Thank you.
Alex.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Please review the following. This should be the final unless updates are
needed.

Pete

On 2/26/13 12:30 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:

On 2/25/13 11:58 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Probably we should let IA2 1.3 go without addressing this issue. In
Firefox we still can use IA2 to expose it in non-standard way (like
new object attribute).
Alex.

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:49 PM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote:

On 26/02/2013 4:12 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:

...

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-03-14 Thread Alexander Surkov

I'm fine with that. I would say As a performant alternative or
something similar.

Btw, Pete, what is a plan about releasing?

Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

On 3/14/13 9:30 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

Thank you.
Alex.

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Hi Alex,

On 3/4/13 10:29 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Hi, Pete. More feedback.

Is there a reason to not deprecate it, i.e. do we need implementers to spend
the time on it? What can be done with it that can't be done with
IA2_2:relationTargetsOfType?

I changed that to: Returns the deepest hypertext accessible... Hopefully
Arnstein will comment if this is not correct.

/** This enum defines values which are predefined actions for use when
implementing
support for media.

This enum is used when specifying an action for
IAccessibleAction::doAction.
*/

Fixed.

5) IA2_RELATION_CONTAINING_DOCUMENT: makes sense to mention that
returned object implements IAccessibleDocument interface.

I added: The target object implements the IAccessibleDocument interface.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks Alex, I refreshed the IA2 files

Did anyone try the new proxy?
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Thank you.
Alex.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Please review the following. This should be the final unless updates are
needed.

Pete

On 2/26/13 12:30 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:

On 2/25/13 11:58 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Probably we should let IA2 1.3 go without addressing this issue. In
Firefox we still can use IA2 to expose it in non-standard way (like
new object attribute).
Alex.

On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:49 PM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote:

On 26/02/2013 4:12 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:

So Is the following

[Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-03-04 Thread Pete Brunet

Please review the following.  This should be the final unless updates
are needed.

- The change log: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/changelog.txt
- IA2 spec: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/
- The individual IDL files: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/api/
  or the full IDL file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/ia2_api_all.idl
- The proxy: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

Pete

On 2/26/13 12:30 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:
 If don't hear anything over the next couple of days, I'll assume this
 won't be in 1.3 and I'll finish up the work I need to do to republish
 the spec on a11ysoft.com for one more look at it before I get in touch
 with the Linux Foundation IT guys to get it published there.

 On 2/25/13 11:58 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
 Probably we should let IA2 1.3 go without addressing this issue. In
 Firefox we still can use IA2 to expose it in non-standard way (like
 new object attribute).
 Alex.


 On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:49 PM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote:
 On 26/02/2013 4:12 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:
 So Is the following what you want?  It moves the method from
 IA2_2 to IAText2 thus resolving an issue for Jamie.
 HRESULT IAccessibleText2::offsetOfChildText (
[in] IUnknown* child,
[out] long* offset
 );
 ...

S_OK is returned if the parent accessible implements IAccessibleText.
S_FALSE is returned if the parent accessible does not implement
 IAccessibleText; [out] value is -1.
 This text needs to be changed for the new method.

 That said, this certainly does look nicer to me. I still think it's a bit of
 a hack, especially given that IAccessibleHyper* should really cover this,
 but at least it's an isolated hack.


 Jamie

 --
 James Teh
 Director, NV Access Limited
 Email: ja...@nvaccess.org
 Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/
 Phone: +61 7 5667 8372
 ___
 Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
 Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
 ___
 Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
 Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2


 -- 
 *Pete Brunet*
 
 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
 Ionosphere: WS4G

-- 
*Pete Brunet*

a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-03-04 Thread Alexander Surkov

Hi, Pete. More feedback.

1) It makes sense to not deprecate IAccessible2::relations since it
can be useful for AT tools. In this case maxRelations argument is not
really needed and it can be marked as ignored but it's not big deal.
2) IAccessible2_2::accessibleWithCaret: Returns the hypertext
accessible in the subtree of this object, and the caret offset within
it. It doesn't say which object is returned. In my understanding it
should be the deepest one.
3) Honestly I failed to understand IA2Actions
(http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/_accessible_action_8idl.html), it
seems referred methods like textAtOffset
(http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible_text.html#a9bd84b099ac7ce2435280549e90c8827)
say nothing about IA2Action support. I'd be great to provide an
example how it works. Otherwise it sounds too generic.
4) changelog (http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/changelog.txt) lists
IA2_RELATION_GROUPING_OBJECT_FOR, IA2_RELATION_POPUP_INITIATOR_FOR
relations, however they aren't listed in interface
http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/_accessible_relation_8idl.html
5) IA2_RELATION_CONTAINING_DOCUMENT: makes sense to mention that
returned object implements IAccessibleDocument interface.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thank you.
Alex.


On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:
 Please review the following.  This should be the final unless updates are
 needed.

 - The change log: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/changelog.txt
 - IA2 spec: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/
 - The individual IDL files: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/api/
   or the full IDL file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/ia2_api_all.idl
 - The proxy: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/proxy-dll/

 Pete

 On 2/26/13 12:30 AM, Pete Brunet wrote:

 If don't hear anything over the next couple of days, I'll assume this won't
 be in 1.3 and I'll finish up the work I need to do to republish the spec on
 a11ysoft.com for one more look at it before I get in touch with the Linux
 Foundation IT guys to get it published there.

 On 2/25/13 11:58 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

 Probably we should let IA2 1.3 go without addressing this issue. In
 Firefox we still can use IA2 to expose it in non-standard way (like
 new object attribute).
 Alex.


 On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 2:49 PM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote:

 On 26/02/2013 4:12 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:

 So Is the following what you want?  It moves the method from
 IA2_2 to IAText2 thus resolving an issue for Jamie.
 HRESULT IAccessibleText2::offsetOfChildText (
[in] IUnknown* child,
[out] long* offset
 );

 ...

S_OK is returned if the parent accessible implements IAccessibleText.
S_FALSE is returned if the parent accessible does not implement
 IAccessibleText; [out] value is -1.

 This text needs to be changed for the new method.

 That said, this certainly does look nicer to me. I still think it's a bit of
 a hack, especially given that IAccessibleHyper* should really cover this,
 but at least it's an isolated hack.


 Jamie

 --
 James Teh
 Director, NV Access Limited
 Email: ja...@nvaccess.org
 Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/
 Phone: +61 7 5667 8372
 ___
 Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
 Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2

 ___
 Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
 Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2


 --
 Pete Brunet

 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
 Ionosphere: WS4G


 --
 Pete Brunet

 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
 Ionosphere: WS4G

 ___
 Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
 Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2

___
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-05 Thread Brian Cragun

In those threads, I had asked for a way for IA2 Paste Text to provide 
both a Start and an 
End Offset parameter.  Also to provide an Attributes parameter.
Copy-with-parameters should be implemented as an additional method in 
IAccessibleText.

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2011-June/001336.html

This was from Carolyn McLeod who needed it in Eclipse for cut and paste.

Brian Cragun
IBM Master Inventor
IBM AbilityLab Consultant
Human Ability  Accessibility Center
www.ibm.com/able  w3.ibm.com/able
W:(720)-663-2801H:(507)288-2437

Subscribe to RSS feed and contribute toAccessibility News communityon 
Connections
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on LinkedIn




From:   Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, 
Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list 
accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Date:   02/04/2013 11:14 PM
Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review
Sent by:accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org




On 2/4/13 5:20 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
Partially.

So, cut, copy copy selected text to the clipboard. The details are handled 
by the rouser. Paste pasts to selected text or the insertion point 
(collapsed selection). What is the concern about clipboard functionality?
I'll have to dig through a month's worth of discussion on the list back in 
June 2011.  I'll try to get to that at some point during the week.  If you 
have time to look at it sooner look through the thread with subject, next 
changes to IAccessible2 here:
http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2011-June/thread.html

Rich

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 4, 2013, at 10:18 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:


On 2/4/13 4:56 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
Did you check with Nuance? What appends if replacetext is removed? 
If you have a contact at Nuance please ask them to join the list.

Only the clipboard methods are deprecated, which bascially means don't use 
the cut/copy/paste methods until the IA2 spec can be changed to support 
the varying implementations and ambiguities of clipboard functionality.  
The rest of the methods are not deprecated, i.e. deleteText, insertText, 
replaceText, and setAttributes.  Does that clarification help at all?

Even if Nuance has not implemented it for say FF has someone approached 
them? We can' t just  be supporting vision impairments.

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 4, 2013, at 9:35 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Hi Rich, At this point, since we couldn't find consensus and since this 
release was supposed to done last Fall and since I was informed that noone 
has implemented or shown a need for the three clipboard operations, I'm 
inclined to not hold up the release any further and handle this in a 
follow-on release if a project comes along that needs clipboard 
functionality and provides resource to drive the spec toward a well 
thought out definition of the clipboard methods.

Pete

On 2/4/13 8:51 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
Hi Pete,

The reason for the editing functions was to allow a voice reco solution to 
select text, edit it, and perform clipboard operations for the mobility 
impaired. It is additional work to have a voice reco solution have to go 
through the additional work of doing the additional keyboard simulations 
for doing that function. 

So, these are single actions. AccessibleEditableText also allows you to 
replace text, and set attributes, which takes offsets and replacement 
text/attributes. Accessible actions are single action functions that don't 
take parameters. ReplaceText is not the same as pasting from the 
clipboard. It is really nice to have all the features in the same 
interface. Note: One could bind the single command functions (cut, copy, 
paste) to the same actions in accessible actions.

The other problem you have with actions is where do you apply it. Do you 
know to apply it only to the document. If Editable text is applied to text 
content within the document then you should now where to find the 
interface. 

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger


-- 
Pete Brunet
 
a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
Ionosphere: WS4G 

-- 
Pete Brunet
 
a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
Ionosphere: WS4G ___
Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
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https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-05 Thread Pete Brunet


On 2/4/13 11:13 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:

 On 2/4/13 5:20 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Partially.

 So, cut, copy copy selected text to the clipboard. The details are
 handled by the rouser. Paste pasts to selected text or the insertion
 point (collapsed selection). What is the concern about clipboard
 functionality?
 I'll have to dig through a month's worth of discussion on the list
 back in June 2011.  I'll try to get to that at some point during the
 week.  If you have time to look at it sooner look through the thread
 with subject, next changes to IAccessible2 here:
 http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2011-June/thread.html
There are a lot of topics in that thread and I'll try to separate out
and summarize the clipboard discussion later, but there is also a
following discussion which starts here:
http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2011-July/001495.html
and one more post here:
http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2012-February/001561.html

 Rich

 Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 4, 2013, at 10:18 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
 mailto:p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:


 On 2/4/13 4:56 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Did you check with Nuance? What appends if replacetext is removed?
 If you have a contact at Nuance please ask them to join the list.

 Only the clipboard methods are deprecated, which bascially means
 don't use the cut/copy/paste methods until the IA2 spec can be
 changed to support the varying implementations and ambiguities of
 clipboard functionality.  The rest of the methods are not
 deprecated, i.e. deleteText, insertText, replaceText, and
 setAttributes.  Does that clarification help at all?

 Even if Nuance has not implemented it for say FF has someone
 approached them? We can' t just  be supporting vision impairments.

 Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 4, 2013, at 9:35 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
 mailto:p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

 Hi Rich, At this point, since we couldn't find consensus and since
 this release was supposed to done last Fall and since I was
 informed that noone has implemented or shown a need for the three
 clipboard operations, I'm inclined to not hold up the release any
 further and handle this in a follow-on release if a project comes
 along that needs clipboard functionality and provides resource to
 drive the spec toward a well thought out definition of the
 clipboard methods.

 Pete

 On 2/4/13 8:51 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Hi Pete,

 The reason for the editing functions was to allow a voice reco
 solution to select text, edit it, and perform clipboard
 operations for the mobility impaired. It is additional work to
 have a voice reco solution have to go through the additional work
 of doing the additional keyboard simulations for doing that
 function.

 So, these are single actions. AccessibleEditableText also allows
 you to replace text, and set attributes, which takes offsets and
 replacement text/attributes. Accessible actions are single action
 functions that don't take parameters. ReplaceText is not the same
 as pasting from the clipboard. It is really nice to have all the
 features in the same interface. Note: One could bind the single
 command functions (cut, copy, paste) to the same actions in
 accessible actions.

 The other problem you have with actions is where do you apply it.
 Do you know to apply it only to the document. If Editable text is
 applied to text content within the document then you should now
 where to find the interface.

 Rich


 Rich Schwerdtfeger


 -- 
 *Pete Brunet*
 
 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
 Ionosphere: WS4G

 -- 
 *Pete Brunet*
 
 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
 Ionosphere: WS4G


 ___
 Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
 Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2

-- 
*Pete Brunet*

a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
Ionosphere: WS4G
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-05 Thread Pete Brunet

On 2/5/13 8:31 AM, Brian Cragun wrote:
In those threads, I had asked for a way for IA2 Paste Text to provide
both a Start and an
End Offset parameter. Also to provide an Attributes parameter.
Copy-with-parameters should be implemented as an additional method in
IAccessibleText.

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2011-June/001336.html

This was from Carolyn McLeod who needed it in Eclipse for cut and paste.
Hi Brian, On 27 June 2011 in this post
http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2011-June/001408.html
Carolyn said, What I am getting at by all of this is that maybe
pasteText should not have any offset parameters at all, because
startOffset and endOffset are inadequate to define multiple selections).
Perhaps pasteText should simply be specified to always operate on the
selection, whatever that may be.

Brian Cragun
IBM Master Inventor
IBM AbilityLab Consultant
Human Ability Accessibility Center_
__www.ibm.com/able_ http://www.ibm.com/able _w3.ibm.com/able_
http://w3.ibm.com/able
W:(720)-663-2801 H:(507)288-2437

*/Subscribe to RSS feed and contribute to/**/Accessibility News
community/*
http://w3.ibm.com/connections/communities/service/html/communityview?communityUuid=136047f0-6cda-4a2a-9a90-2188047a542a*/on
Connections/*
_IBM Accessibility_ http://www.facebook.com/IBMAccessibilityon
Facebook ▼_IBMAccess_ http://twitter.com/IBMAccesson Twitter ▼_IBM
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From: Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS,
Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list
accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Date: 02/04/2013 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review
Sent by: accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org

On 2/4/13 5:20 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
Partially.

So, cut, copy copy selected text to the clipboard. The details are
handled by the rouser. Paste pasts to selected text or the insertion
point (collapsed selection). What is the concern about clipboard
functionality?
I'll have to dig through a month's worth of discussion on the list
back in June 2011. I'll try to get to that at some point during the
week. If you have time to look at it sooner look through the thread
with subject, next changes to IAccessible2 here:_
__http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2011-June/thread.html_

Rich

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 4, 2013, at 10:18 PM, Pete Brunet _pete@a11ysoft.com_
mailto:p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

On 2/4/13 4:56 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
Did you check with Nuance? What appends if replacetext is removed?
If you have a contact at Nuance please ask them to join the list.

Only the clipboard methods are deprecated, which bascially means don't
use the cut/copy/paste methods until the IA2 spec can be changed to
support the varying implementations and ambiguities of clipboard
functionality. The rest of the methods are not deprecated, i.e.
deleteText, insertText, replaceText, and setAttributes. Does that
clarification help at all?

Even if Nuance has not implemented it for say FF has someone
approached them? We can' t just be supporting vision impairments.

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 4, 2013, at 9:35 PM, Pete Brunet _pete@a11ysoft.com_
mailto:p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

Hi Rich, At this point, since we couldn't find consensus and since
this release was supposed to done last Fall and since I was informed
that noone has implemented or shown a need for the three clipboard
operations, I'm inclined to not hold up the release any further and
handle this in a follow-on release if a project comes along that needs
clipboard functionality and provides resource to drive the spec toward
a well thought out definition of the clipboard methods.

Pete

On 2/4/13 8:51 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
Hi Pete,

The reason for the editing functions was to allow a voice reco
solution to select text, edit it, and perform clipboard operations for
the mobility impaired. It is additional work to have a voice reco
solution have to go through the additional work of doing the
additional keyboard simulations for doing that function.

So, these are single actions. AccessibleEditableText also allows you
to replace text, and set attributes, which takes offsets and
replacement text/attributes. Accessible actions are single action
functions that don't take parameters. ReplaceText is not the same as
pasting from the clipboard. It is really nice to have all the features
in the same interface. Note: One could bind the single command
functions (cut, copy, paste) to the same actions in accessible actions.

The other problem you have with actions is where do you apply it. Do
you know to apply it only to the document. If Editable text is applied
to text content within the document then you should now

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Pete Brunet


On 10/10/12 2:07 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
 Hi, Jamie. Answering inline.

 5) Document that copyText, cutText, and pasteText are deprecated.
 Can you please refresh me on it? The reason specified is This
 function is available via the application's GUI. but it seems it can
 be applied to the whole IAccessibleEditableText interface.
 I believe there was some talk a while ago about making these all actions
 which can be triggered using the standard action mechanism. This would
 require a way to perform an action given a constant. It is why the idea of
 using negative action indices came up.
 It seems it doesn't answer why we can't turn out the whole
 IAccessibleEditableText interface into actions.
 Btw, I would prefer doAction taking a BSTR rather than negative
 constant. Otherwise we should standardize all possible actions and we
 don't leave a room for the server to introduce non-standard actions.

 6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure: we decided to
 go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all items at once
 even if the document is big and has many links?
 It seems we didn't go with EnumVariant at all but we added maxCount
 'in' argument. Should we have it here as well?
Hi Alex, I assume you are referring to
IAccessible2_2::relationTargetsOfType which along with
IAccessible2::relations and IAccessibleRelation::targerts are the only
methods with a valid max count [in] parameter.  (There are several
others but those methods were coded in error and their max count [in]
parameters are to be ignored.)  IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks
doesn't have a max [in] parameter and Jamie said in a followup note that
he's unaware of any need for one.

 7) IA2_RELATION_GROUPING_OBJECT_FOR: This object is a grouping object
 for the target object. - it'd be nice to give a hint for
 implementers. After a time I don't really remember what is it about :)
 I guess a grouping object/container would expose this relation referring to
 all objects it contains. Is this really useful?
 It'd be nice to have examples. Does it applicable to HTML fieldset and
 HTML form? Should it include the element connected by node_child_of
 relation if the element is not a descendant?

 Thank you.
 Alex.


 On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 3:39 PM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote:
 On 24/09/2012 2:52 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
 5) Document that copyText, cutText, and pasteText are deprecated.
 Can you please refresh me on it? The reason specified is This
 function is available via the application's GUI. but it seems it can
 be applied to the whole IAccessibleEditableText interface.
 I believe there was some talk a while ago about making these all actions
 which can be triggered using the standard action mechanism. This would
 require a way to perform an action given a constant. It is why the idea of
 using negative action indices came up.


 6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure: we decided to
 go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all items at once
 even if the document is big and has many links?
 Isn't that the whole point of this method? Otherwise, wouldn't
 IAccessibleHypertext::hyperlink be enough? Maybe I'm missing something...


 7) IA2_RELATION_GROUPING_OBJECT_FOR: This object is a grouping object
 for the target object. - it'd be nice to give a hint for
 implementers. After a time I don't really remember what is it about :)
 I guess a grouping object/container would expose this relation referring to
 all objects it contains. Is this really useful?


 9)  Description for IA2_RELATION_POPUP_INITIATOR_FOR doesn't make
 things really clear for implementers too.
 Yeah; I have no idea what this is for. :)

 Btw, the used string is
 popInitiatorFor,
 Looks like a typo to me.

 Thanks,
 Jamie


 --
 James Teh
 Director, NV Access Limited
 Email: ja...@nvaccess.org
 Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/
 Phone: +61 7 5667 8372
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a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Pete Brunet


On 2/4/13 5:13 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:
 Hi Alex, I am going to try to get some momentum going on this again...

 On 9/23/12 11:52 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
 Hi, Pete. Here's my two cents.

 1) It makes sense to allow IAccessible2_2::attribute to take sequence
 of attribute names like margin-left;margin-right; to get these
 attribute values for a single call.
 Is this important enough to add additional development effort for
 server side implementers?
 2) It'd be nice to add a reference to relation constants for
 relationTargetsOfType method description, see [in] type The requested
 relation type.
 Done.
 3) Any specific reason to use long for nTargets in
 relationTargetsOfType since it seems it never takes negative values?
 It's a good point, but since an unsigned long wasn't used anywhere
 else it seems like at least for the sake of consistency to leave it as is.
 4) Should we keep IAccessibleDocument restricted to HTML documents?
 After all HTML sounds like an implementation detail. The idea it
 serves to is when the loaded document shouldn't be read from the
 beginning.
 I changed it to:
   /** @brief Returns the most recently used anchor target within a
 document.
  
A document's most recently targeted in-page anchor is returned.  A
 typical use
 of this method is to fetch the anchor target within an HTML
 document.  In this
 case anchor targets are those which has been defined with the a
 tag.
 5) Document that copyText, cutText, and pasteText are deprecated.
 Can you please refresh me on it? The reason specified is This
 function is available via the application's GUI. but it seems it can
 be applied to the whole IAccessibleEditableText interface.
 This was a long discussion involving several people back in June 2011
 from the 7th to the 29th and this is what we ended up with.  It was
 determined that the three deprecated methods are clipboard operations
 and there are too many differences and ambiguities in how applications
 implement their clipboard functionality.  Also copy/cut/paste methods
 are not in use while the other ones are so we can't deprecate the
 entire interface.  We also talked about adding, if needed at some
 later date, five new actions for cut, copy, pasteDefault,
 pasteFormatted, pasteUnformatted.
 6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure: we decided to
 go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all items at once
 even if the document is big and has many links?
 Back on 14 Aug 2012 you agreed that the array would be preferred in
 order to keep it consistent with the array returned by
 IAccessible2_2::relationTargetsOfType.
 7) IA2_RELATION_GROUPING_OBJECT_FOR: This object is a grouping object
 for the target object. - it'd be nice to give a hint for
 implementers. After a time I don't really remember what is it about :)
 Actually this got into this draft of the spec by mistake.  We agreed
 it was not needed back on 1 March 12.  Ditto with 
 IA2_RELATION_POPUP_INITIATOR_FOR.  I removed them both.
 8) IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF This object is a parent of a target
 object. It's not clear as well since it doesn't answer why
 get_accParent doesn't work. Maybe you should say it's a logical parent
 and the relation is reverse to RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF. It is used, for
 example, for flat structured trees.
 I could remove it.  Noone else showed interest in it other than for
 symmetry with IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.  The comment about
 get_accParent is a good one.  You asked for this new relation back on
 9 Nov 09 because you added it for ATK and wanted to enhance the
 symmetry between the ATK and IA2 interfaces.  Or I could just add
 another sentence, This relation is the reciprocal of
 IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.  I didn't understand the comment about
 flat structured trees but if you want to keep this relation please
 provide an additional sentence.
 9)  Description for IA2_RELATION_POPUP_INITIATOR_FOR doesn't make
 things really clear for implementers too. Btw, the used string is
 popInitiatorFor, I'm not sure if this is on demand, should it be
 popupInitiatorFor instead?
 Removed.  See #7.
 10) Both IAccessibleHypertext and IAccessibleText are marked as
 deprecated (see http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/), however
 IAccessibleHypertext2 and IAccessibleText2 are inherited from them.
 What does deprecation mean here?
 Thanks for noticing that Alex.  Does anyone see any issues if I remove
 the inheritance? 
Actually I should not remove the inheritance.  I'll remove the text
indicating deprecation.
 Thank you.
 Alex.


 On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:
 I finished up the IA2 1.3 work over the weekend but due to some changes on
 the LF web site am unable to post it there.  I've provided it at
 a11ysoft.com.  Please review it.  I won't get to the object attributes until
 later (to add explicit-name).

 documentation:  http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html
 zip file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2.zip

 The one bug I see

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Pete Brunet


On 10/10/12 1:29 AM, James Teh wrote:
 Hi all,

 Sorry for taking so long. Here is my feedback:

 Accessible2.idl:
 IAccessible2 has been removed from the Interfaces section. It should
 still be included. (I see Pete has already acknowledged this.)
 I'm not sure it makes sense to say the older interfaces (except
 IAccessibleTable, which has essentially been completely replaced) are
 deprecated, as the newer ones subclass them.
I've removed the deprecated text from IAHypertext and IAText.  I think
it still make sense to indicate IARelation is deprecated.
 The IAccessible2 interface still contains the modifications relevant
 to IAccessible2_2. Specifically, the max parameters for extendedStates
 and localizedExtendedStates have been removed and the new methods
 attribute, accessibleWithCaret and relationTargetsOfType have been
 added. I assume this was unintentional in this latest version. This
 critical, as it will breka binary compatibility.
Yes, That was unintentional.  I diffed the old and new IAccessible2 and
fixed the problems.


 AccessibleDocument.idl:
 Regarding IAccessibleDocument::anchorTarget, I wonder whether a
 relation fits here, which would eliminate the need for this interface.
 I think this was discussed before, but I can't remember why this idea
 was dropped. After all, it just returns an accessible.
Back on 12 Feb 12 you said:
I feel a relation fits well enough here, but I don't feel strongly
enough about it to fight for it if others disagree. I'd pose the
question: what makes this so special as to justify a new method? Why is
it more special than, say, flowsTo or labelledBy? I guess it doesn't fit
relations entirely, as it isn't strictly related so much as state
information. If that argument is consensus, fair enough.
And I responded:
Thanks Jamie, It appears there is no strong preference by anyone for any
of the various options.  Your observation about state vs relationship is
interesting and is enough to motivate me to choose a method over a relation.

 AccessibleHypertext2.idl:
 The comments for the IAccessibleHypertext2 interface say:
  The %IAccessibleHypertext interface is the main interface to expose
   hyperlinks in a document, typically a text document...
 This is a bit confusing, as this documentation is for
 IAccessibleHypertext2, not IAccessibleHypertext. It should probably
 just mention that this extends IAccessibleHypertext.
 The same goes for IAccessibleText2.
Thanks Jamie, I fixed that.

 I'll reply to Alex's feedback separately.

 Thanks,
 Jamie

 On 21/09/2012 12:22 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:
 I finished up the IA2 1.3 work over the weekend but due to some changes
 on the LF web site am unable to post it there.  I've provided it at
 a11ysoft.com.  Please review it.  I won't get to the object attributes
 until later (to add explicit-name).

 documentation: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html
 zip file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2.zip

 The one bug I see so far is that I don't have a link for the
 IAccessible2 interface on the main page.  That is at:
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html

 The zip file contains everything I'll eventually post on the LF site,
 among other things, changelog.txt and the merged IDL file,
 ia2_api_all.idl.

 Pete
 -- 
 *Pete Brunet*

 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
 Ionosphere: WS4G


 ___
 Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
 Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2



-- 
*Pete Brunet*

a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
Ionosphere: WS4G
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Richard Schwerdtfeger


Hi Pete,

The reason for the editing functions was to allow a voice reco solution to
select text, edit it, and perform clipboard operations for the mobility
impaired. It is additional work to have a voice reco solution have to go
through the additional work of doing the additional keyboard simulations
for doing that function.

So, these are single actions. AccessibleEditableText also allows you to
replace text, and set attributes, which takes offsets and replacement
text/attributes. Accessible actions are single action functions that don't
take parameters. ReplaceText is not the same as pasting from the clipboard.
It is really nice to have all the features in the same interface. Note: One
could bind the single command functions (cut, copy, paste) to the same
actions in accessible actions.

The other problem you have with actions is where do you apply it. Do you
know to apply it only to the document. If Editable text is applied to text
content within the document then you should now where to find the
interface.

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger



From:   Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
To: Alexander Surkov surkov.alexan...@gmail.com,
Cc: IAccessible2 mailing list
accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Date:   02/04/2013 07:49 PM
Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review
Sent by:accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org




On 10/10/12 2:07 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
  Hi, Jamie. Answering inline.


  5) Document that copyText, cutText, and pasteText are
  deprecated.
  Can you please refresh me on it? The reason specified is
  This
  function is available via the application's GUI. but it
  seems it can
  be applied to the whole IAccessibleEditableText
  interface.


I believe there was some talk a while ago about making these
all actions
which can be triggered using the standard action mechanism.
This would
require a way to perform an action given a constant. It is why
the idea of
using negative action indices came up.


  It seems it doesn't answer why we can't turn out the whole
  IAccessibleEditableText interface into actions.
  Btw, I would prefer doAction taking a BSTR rather than negative
  constant. Otherwise we should standardize all possible actions and we
  don't leave a room for the server to introduce non-standard actions.


  6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure:
  we decided to
  go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all
  items at once
  even if the document is big and has many links?


  It seems we didn't go with EnumVariant at all but we added maxCount
  'in' argument. Should we have it here as well?
Hi Alex, I assume you are referring to
IAccessible2_2::relationTargetsOfType which along with
IAccessible2::relations and IAccessibleRelation::targerts are the only
methods with a valid max count [in] parameter.  (There are several others
but those methods were coded in error and their max count [in] parameters
are to be ignored.)  IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks doesn't have a max
[in] parameter and Jamie said in a followup note that he's unaware of any
need for one.



  7) IA2_RELATION_GROUPING_OBJECT_FOR: This object is a
  grouping object
  for the target object. - it'd be nice to give a hint for
  implementers. After a time I don't really remember what
  is it about :)


I guess a grouping object/container would expose this relation
referring to
all objects it contains. Is this really useful?


  It'd be nice to have examples. Does it applicable to HTML fieldset
  and
  HTML form? Should it include the element connected by node_child_of
  relation if the element is not a descendant?

  Thank you.
  Alex.


  On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 3:39 PM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org
  wrote:

On 24/09/2012 2:52 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:


  5) Document that copyText, cutText, and pasteText are
  deprecated.
  Can you please refresh me on it? The reason specified is
  This
  function is available via the application's GUI. but it
  seems it can
  be applied to the whole IAccessibleEditableText
  interface.


I believe there was some talk a while ago about making these
all actions
which can be triggered using the standard action mechanism.
This would
require a way to perform an action given a constant. It is why
the idea

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Alexander Surkov

Hi, Pete. It looks good. Perhaps I'd change In some cases an
application's accessible tree is such that an object can have a
logical parent which is not its parent in the tree of accessibles. to
... such that objects can be in a logical parent-child relationship
which is different from hierarchy in the accessible tree.

Thank you.
Alex.


On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

 On 2/4/13 8:16 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

 Hi, Pete. Thank you for getting back on this. Answering inline.

 1) It makes sense to allow IAccessible2_2::attribute to take sequence
 of attribute names like margin-left;margin-right; to get these
 attribute values for a single call.

 Is this important enough to add additional development effort for server
 side implementers?

 Let's leave it out of IA2 1.3. Otherwise I afraid we never get it
 done. If the feature is needed by AT then it can be prototyped in the
 browser before we put it into spec since it doesn't require the
 interface changes.

 3) Any specific reason to use long for nTargets in
 relationTargetsOfType since it seems it never takes negative values?

 It's a good point, but since an unsigned long wasn't used anywhere else it
 seems like at least for the sake of consistency to leave it as is.

 I don't mind.

 6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure: we decided to
 go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all items at once
 even if the document is big and has many links?

 Back on 14 Aug 2012 you agreed that the array would be preferred in order to
 keep it consistent with the array returned by
 IAccessible2_2::relationTargetsOfType.

 If I agreed then ok :) It seems our discussion is many years long. I
 can hardly remember where we started from. I think my point was that
 obtaining all hyperlinks can be slow. If it is an issue then we can
 address it the next round if necessary.

 8) IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF This object is a parent of a target
 object. It's not clear as well since it doesn't answer why
 get_accParent doesn't work. Maybe you should say it's a logical parent
 and the relation is reverse to RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF. It is used, for
 example, for flat structured trees.

 I could remove it.  Noone else showed interest in it other than for symmetry
 with IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.  The comment about get_accParent is a good
 one.  You asked for this new relation back on 9 Nov 09 because you added it
 for ATK and wanted to enhance the symmetry between the ATK and IA2
 interfaces.  Or I could just add another sentence, This relation is the
 reciprocal of IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.  I didn't understand the comment
 about flat structured trees but if you want to keep this relation please
 provide an additional sentence.

 We shouldn't remove it. It's needed for sync with ATK. Also this
 constant was settled down in ARIA spec implementation guide already :)

 If you use logical parent instead parent (i.e. not a parent in the
 accessible tree) then it should be fine. It can sound This object is
 a logical parent of a target object. This relation is the reciprocal
 of IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.

 About flat trees. The accessible tree may look like:

 div role=tree
   div role=treeitem level=1item/div
   div role=treeitem level=2sub item/div
 /div

 in this case parent for 'item' and 'subitem' is 'tree' but logical
 parent of 'subitem' is 'item'.

 I updated the comments as follows.  Please review.

 /** This object is a logical child of a target object.  This relation is the
 reciprocal
  of the IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF relation. In some cases an application's
 accessible
  tree is such that an object can have a logical parent which is not its
 parent in the
  tree of accessibles. */
 const WCHAR *const IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF = LnodeChildOf;

 /** This object is a logical parent of a target object. This relation is the
 reciprocal
  of the IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF relation. In some cases an application's
 accessible
  tree is such that an object can have a logical parent which is not its
 parent in the
  tree of accessibles. */
 const WCHAR *const IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF = LnodeParentOf;


 Thank you.
 Alex.


 On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

 Hi Alex, I am going to try to get some momentum going on this again...


 On 9/23/12 11:52 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

 Hi, Pete. Here's my two cents.

 1) It makes sense to allow IAccessible2_2::attribute to take sequence
 of attribute names like margin-left;margin-right; to get these
 attribute values for a single call.

 Is this important enough to add additional development effort for server
 side implementers?

 2) It'd be nice to add a reference to relation constants for
 relationTargetsOfType method description, see [in] type The requested
 relation type.

 Done.

 3) Any specific reason to use long for nTargets in
 relationTargetsOfType since it seems it never takes negative values?

 It's a good point,

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Richard Schwerdtfeger


Pete,

Is there a plan to update AccProbe for the new interfaces?

Alex: I am concerned about FF implementing this stuff in the middle of
Candidate Recommendation phase. That would set everything back and there
are already more bugs than I would like to see in FF 21 which need to be
addressed.

It would be best if this were synched with ARIA 1.1.

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger



From:   Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
To: Alexander Surkov surkov.alexan...@gmail.com,
Cc: IA2 List Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
Date:   02/04/2013 08:47 PM
Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review
Sent by:accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org




On 2/4/13 8:16 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
  Hi, Pete. Thank you for getting back on this. Answering inline.


1) It makes sense to allow IAccessible2_2::attribute to take
sequence
of attribute names like margin-left;margin-right; to get
these
attribute values for a single call.

Is this important enough to add additional development effort
for server
side implementers?


  Let's leave it out of IA2 1.3. Otherwise I afraid we never get it
  done. If the feature is needed by AT then it can be prototyped in the
  browser before we put it into spec since it doesn't require the
  interface changes.


3) Any specific reason to use long for nTargets in
relationTargetsOfType since it seems it never takes negative
values?

It's a good point, but since an unsigned long wasn't used
anywhere else it
seems like at least for the sake of consistency to leave it as
is.


  I don't mind.


6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure: we
decided to
go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all items
at once
even if the document is big and has many links?

Back on 14 Aug 2012 you agreed that the array would be
preferred in order to
keep it consistent with the array returned by
IAccessible2_2::relationTargetsOfType.


  If I agreed then ok :) It seems our discussion is many years long. I
  can hardly remember where we started from. I think my point was that
  obtaining all hyperlinks can be slow. If it is an issue then we can
  address it the next round if necessary.


8) IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF This object is a parent of a
target
object. It's not clear as well since it doesn't answer why
get_accParent doesn't work. Maybe you should say it's a logical
parent
and the relation is reverse to RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF. It is
used, for
example, for flat structured trees.

I could remove it.  Noone else showed interest in it other than
for symmetry
with IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.  The comment about
get_accParent is a good
one.  You asked for this new relation back on 9 Nov 09 because
you added it
for ATK and wanted to enhance the symmetry between the ATK and
IA2
interfaces.  Or I could just add another sentence, This
relation is the
reciprocal of IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.  I didn't understand
the comment
about flat structured trees but if you want to keep this
relation please
provide an additional sentence.


  We shouldn't remove it. It's needed for sync with ATK. Also this
  constant was settled down in ARIA spec implementation guide
  already :)

  If you use logical parent instead parent (i.e. not a parent in
  the
  accessible tree) then it should be fine. It can sound This object is
  a logical parent of a target object. This relation is the reciprocal
  of IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.

  About flat trees. The accessible tree may look like:

  div role=tree
div role=treeitem level=1item/div
div role=treeitem level=2sub item/div
  /div

  in this case parent for 'item' and 'subitem' is 'tree' but logical
  parent of 'subitem' is 'item'.
I updated the comments as follows.  Please review.

/** This object is a logical child of a target object.  This relation is
the reciprocal
 of the IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF relation. In some cases an
application's accessible
 tree is such that an object can have a logical parent which is not its
parent in the
 tree of accessibles. */
const WCHAR *const IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF = LnodeChildOf;

/** This object is a logical parent of a target object. This relation is
the reciprocal
 of the IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF relation. In some cases an application's
accessible
 tree is such that an object can have a logical parent

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Pete Brunet


On 2/4/13 8:52 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
 Hi, Pete. It looks good. Perhaps I'd change In some cases an
 application's accessible tree is such that an object can have a
 logical parent which is not its parent in the tree of accessibles. to
 ... such that objects can be in a logical parent-child relationship
 which is different from hierarchy in the accessible tree.
Thanks Alex, I changed the text.

 Thank you.
 Alex.


 On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:
 On 2/4/13 8:16 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

 Hi, Pete. Thank you for getting back on this. Answering inline.

 1) It makes sense to allow IAccessible2_2::attribute to take sequence
 of attribute names like margin-left;margin-right; to get these
 attribute values for a single call.

 Is this important enough to add additional development effort for server
 side implementers?

 Let's leave it out of IA2 1.3. Otherwise I afraid we never get it
 done. If the feature is needed by AT then it can be prototyped in the
 browser before we put it into spec since it doesn't require the
 interface changes.

 3) Any specific reason to use long for nTargets in
 relationTargetsOfType since it seems it never takes negative values?

 It's a good point, but since an unsigned long wasn't used anywhere else it
 seems like at least for the sake of consistency to leave it as is.

 I don't mind.

 6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure: we decided to
 go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all items at once
 even if the document is big and has many links?

 Back on 14 Aug 2012 you agreed that the array would be preferred in order to
 keep it consistent with the array returned by
 IAccessible2_2::relationTargetsOfType.

 If I agreed then ok :) It seems our discussion is many years long. I
 can hardly remember where we started from. I think my point was that
 obtaining all hyperlinks can be slow. If it is an issue then we can
 address it the next round if necessary.

 8) IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF This object is a parent of a target
 object. It's not clear as well since it doesn't answer why
 get_accParent doesn't work. Maybe you should say it's a logical parent
 and the relation is reverse to RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF. It is used, for
 example, for flat structured trees.

 I could remove it.  Noone else showed interest in it other than for symmetry
 with IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.  The comment about get_accParent is a good
 one.  You asked for this new relation back on 9 Nov 09 because you added it
 for ATK and wanted to enhance the symmetry between the ATK and IA2
 interfaces.  Or I could just add another sentence, This relation is the
 reciprocal of IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.  I didn't understand the comment
 about flat structured trees but if you want to keep this relation please
 provide an additional sentence.

 We shouldn't remove it. It's needed for sync with ATK. Also this
 constant was settled down in ARIA spec implementation guide already :)

 If you use logical parent instead parent (i.e. not a parent in the
 accessible tree) then it should be fine. It can sound This object is
 a logical parent of a target object. This relation is the reciprocal
 of IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.

 About flat trees. The accessible tree may look like:

 div role=tree
   div role=treeitem level=1item/div
   div role=treeitem level=2sub item/div
 /div

 in this case parent for 'item' and 'subitem' is 'tree' but logical
 parent of 'subitem' is 'item'.

 I updated the comments as follows.  Please review.

 /** This object is a logical child of a target object.  This relation is the
 reciprocal
  of the IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF relation. In some cases an application's
 accessible
  tree is such that an object can have a logical parent which is not its
 parent in the
  tree of accessibles. */
 const WCHAR *const IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF = LnodeChildOf;

 /** This object is a logical parent of a target object. This relation is the
 reciprocal
  of the IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF relation. In some cases an application's
 accessible
  tree is such that an object can have a logical parent which is not its
 parent in the
  tree of accessibles. */
 const WCHAR *const IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF = LnodeParentOf;


 Thank you.
 Alex.


 On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

 Hi Alex, I am going to try to get some momentum going on this again...


 On 9/23/12 11:52 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

 Hi, Pete. Here's my two cents.

 1) It makes sense to allow IAccessible2_2::attribute to take sequence
 of attribute names like margin-left;margin-right; to get these
 attribute values for a single call.

 Is this important enough to add additional development effort for server
 side implementers?

 2) It'd be nice to add a reference to relation constants for
 relationTargetsOfType method description, see [in] type The requested
 relation type.

 Done.

 3) Any specific reason to use long for nTargets in

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Richard Schwerdtfeger


That creates a rather significant problem.

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger



From:   Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS,
Cc: IA2 List Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Alexander
Surkov surkov.alexan...@gmail.com
Date:   02/04/2013 09:15 PM
Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review




On 2/4/13 9:03 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:


  Pete,

  Is there a plan to update AccProbe for the new interfaces?


Hi Rich, AccProbe should be updated but there is no resource to do it.



  Alex: I am concerned about FF implementing this stuff in the middle
  of Candidate Recommendation phase. That would set everything back and
  there are already more bugs than I would like to see in FF 21 which
  need to be addressed.

  It would be best if this were synched with ARIA 1.1.

  Rich


  Rich Schwerdtfeger

  Inactive hide details for Pete Brunet ---02/04/2013
  08:47:01
  PM---On 2/4/13 8:16 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: 
  Hi, Pete.
  Thank Pete Brunet ---02/04/2013 08:47:01 PM---On 2/4/13 8:16 PM,
  Alexander Surkov wrote:  Hi, Pete. Thank you for getting back on
  this. Answering

  From: Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
  To: Alexander Surkov surkov.alexan...@gmail.com,
  Cc: IA2 List Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
  Date: 02/04/2013 08:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review
  Sent by: accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org






  On 2/4/13 8:16 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
Hi, Pete. Thank you for getting back on this. Answering inline.

  1) It makes sense to allow IAccessible2_2::attribute to
  take sequence
  of attribute names like margin-left;margin-right; to
  get these
  attribute values for a single call.

  Is this important enough to add additional development
  effort for server
  side implementers?

Let's leave it out of IA2 1.3. Otherwise I afraid we never get
it
done. If the feature is needed by AT then it can be prototyped
in the
browser before we put it into spec since it doesn't require the
interface changes.

  3) Any specific reason to use long for nTargets in
  relationTargetsOfType since it seems it never takes
  negative values?

  It's a good point, but since an unsigned long wasn't used
  anywhere else it
  seems like at least for the sake of consistency to leave
  it as is.

I don't mind.

  6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure:
  we decided to
  go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all
  items at once
  even if the document is big and has many links?

  Back on 14 Aug 2012 you agreed that the array would be
  preferred in order to
  keep it consistent with the array returned by
  IAccessible2_2::relationTargetsOfType.

If I agreed then ok :) It seems our discussion is many years
long. I
can hardly remember where we started from. I think my point was
that
obtaining all hyperlinks can be slow. If it is an issue then we
can
address it the next round if necessary.

  8) IA2_RELATION_NODE_PARENT_OF This object is a parent
  of a target
  object. It's not clear as well since it doesn't answer
  why
  get_accParent doesn't work. Maybe you should say it's a
  logical parent
  and the relation is reverse to RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF. It
  is used, for
  example, for flat structured trees.

  I could remove it.  Noone else showed interest in it
  other than for symmetry
  with IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.  The comment about
  get_accParent is a good
  one.  You asked for this new relation back on 9 Nov 09
  because you added it
  for ATK and wanted to enhance the symmetry between the
  ATK and IA2
  interfaces.  Or I could just add another sentence, This
  relation is the
  reciprocal of IA2_RELATION_NODE_CHILD_OF.  I didn't
  understand the comment
  about flat structured trees but if you want to keep this
  relation please
  provide

Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Pete Brunet

Hi Rich, At this point, since we couldn't find consensus and since this
release was supposed to done last Fall and since I was informed that
noone has implemented or shown a need for the three clipboard
operations, I'm inclined to not hold up the release any further and
handle this in a follow-on release if a project comes along that needs
clipboard functionality and provides resource to drive the spec toward a
well thought out definition of the clipboard methods.

Pete

On 2/4/13 8:51 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Hi Pete,

 The reason for the editing functions was to allow a voice reco
 solution to select text, edit it, and perform clipboard operations for
 the mobility impaired. It is additional work to have a voice reco
 solution have to go through the additional work of doing the
 additional keyboard simulations for doing that function.

 So, these are single actions. AccessibleEditableText also allows you
 to replace text, and set attributes, which takes offsets and
 replacement text/attributes. Accessible actions are single action
 functions that don't take parameters. ReplaceText is not the same as
 pasting from the clipboard. It is really nice to have all the features
 in the same interface. Note: One could bind the single command
 functions (cut, copy, paste) to the same actions in accessible actions.

 The other problem you have with actions is where do you apply it. Do
 you know to apply it only to the document. If Editable text is applied
 to text content within the document then you should now where to find
 the interface.

 Rich


 Rich Schwerdtfeger

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Richard Schwerdtfeger

Did you check with Nuance? What appends if replacetext is removed? 

Even if Nuance has not implemented it for say FF has someone approached them? 
We can' t just  be supporting vision impairments.

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 4, 2013, at 9:35 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

 Hi Rich, At this point, since we couldn't find consensus and since this 
 release was supposed to done last Fall and since I was informed that noone 
 has implemented or shown a need for the three clipboard operations, I'm 
 inclined to not hold up the release any further and handle this in a 
 follow-on release if a project comes along that needs clipboard functionality 
 and provides resource to drive the spec toward a well thought out definition 
 of the clipboard methods.
 
 Pete
 
 On 2/4/13 8:51 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Hi Pete,
 
 The reason for the editing functions was to allow a voice reco solution to 
 select text, edit it, and perform clipboard operations for the mobility 
 impaired. It is additional work to have a voice reco solution have to go 
 through the additional work of doing the additional keyboard simulations for 
 doing that function. 
 
 So, these are single actions. AccessibleEditableText also allows you to 
 replace text, and set attributes, which takes offsets and replacement 
 text/attributes. Accessible actions are single action functions that don't 
 take parameters. ReplaceText is not the same as pasting from the clipboard. 
 It is really nice to have all the features in the same interface. Note: One 
 could bind the single command functions (cut, copy, paste) to the same 
 actions in accessible actions.
 
 The other problem you have with actions is where do you apply it. Do you 
 know to apply it only to the document. If Editable text is applied to text 
 content within the document then you should now where to find the interface. 
 
 Rich
 
 
 Rich Schwerdtfeger
 
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Richard Schwerdtfeger

Whe are relations deprecated? They are used extensively in both FF, Chrome, and 
Symphony.

Rich

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 4, 2013, at 8:32 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

 
 On 10/10/12 1:29 AM, James Teh wrote:
 Hi all, 
 
 Sorry for taking so long. Here is my feedback: 
 
 Accessible2.idl: 
 IAccessible2 has been removed from the Interfaces section. It should still 
 be included. (I see Pete has already acknowledged this.) 
 I'm not sure it makes sense to say the older interfaces (except 
 IAccessibleTable, which has essentially been completely replaced) are 
 deprecated, as the newer ones subclass them.
 I've removed the deprecated text from IAHypertext and IAText.  I think it 
 still make sense to indicate IARelation is deprecated.
 The IAccessible2 interface still contains the modifications relevant to 
 IAccessible2_2. Specifically, the max parameters for extendedStates and 
 localizedExtendedStates have been removed and the new methods attribute, 
 accessibleWithCaret and relationTargetsOfType have been added. I assume this 
 was unintentional in this latest version. This critical, as it will breka 
 binary compatibility.
 Yes, That was unintentional.  I diffed the old and new IAccessible2 and fixed 
 the problems.
 
 
 AccessibleDocument.idl: 
 Regarding IAccessibleDocument::anchorTarget, I wonder whether a relation 
 fits here, which would eliminate the need for this interface. I think this 
 was discussed before, but I can't remember why this idea was dropped. After 
 all, it just returns an accessible.
 Back on 12 Feb 12 you said:
 I feel a relation fits well enough here, but I don't feel strongly enough 
 about it to fight for it if others disagree. I'd pose the question: what 
 makes this so special as to justify a new method? Why is it more special 
 than, say, flowsTo or labelledBy? I guess it doesn't fit relations entirely, 
 as it isn't strictly related so much as state information. If that argument 
 is consensus, fair enough. 
 And I responded:
 Thanks Jamie, It appears there is no strong preference by anyone for any of 
 the various options.  Your observation about state vs relationship is 
 interesting and is enough to motivate me to choose a method over a relation.
 
 AccessibleHypertext2.idl: 
 The comments for the IAccessibleHypertext2 interface say: 
  The %IAccessibleHypertext interface is the main interface to expose 
   hyperlinks in a document, typically a text document... 
 This is a bit confusing, as this documentation is for IAccessibleHypertext2, 
 not IAccessibleHypertext. It should probably just mention that this extends 
 IAccessibleHypertext. 
 The same goes for IAccessibleText2.
 Thanks Jamie, I fixed that.
 
 I'll reply to Alex's feedback separately. 
 
 Thanks, 
 Jamie 
 
 On 21/09/2012 12:22 PM, Pete Brunet wrote: 
 I finished up the IA2 1.3 work over the weekend but due to some changes 
 on the LF web site am unable to post it there.  I've provided it at 
 a11ysoft.com.  Please review it.  I won't get to the object attributes 
 until later (to add explicit-name). 
 
 documentation: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html 
 zip file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2.zip 
 
 The one bug I see so far is that I don't have a link for the 
 IAccessible2 interface on the main page.  That is at: 
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html 
 
 The zip file contains everything I'll eventually post on the LF site, 
 among other things, changelog.txt and the merged IDL file, ia2_api_all.idl. 
 
 Pete 
 -- 
 *Pete Brunet* 
 
 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development 
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell) 
 Skype: pete.brunet 
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN) 
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/ 
 Ionosphere: WS4G 
 
 
 ___ 
 Accessibility-ia2 mailing list 
 Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org 
 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
 
 -- 
 Pete Brunet
  
 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
 Ionosphere: WS4G 
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 Accessibility-ia2 mailing list
 Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Pete Brunet


On 2/4/13 4:56 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Did you check with Nuance? What appends if replacetext is removed?
If you have a contact at Nuance please ask them to join the list.

Only the clipboard methods are deprecated, which bascially means don't
use the cut/copy/paste methods until the IA2 spec can be changed to
support the varying implementations and ambiguities of clipboard
functionality.  The rest of the methods are not deprecated, i.e.
deleteText, insertText, replaceText, and setAttributes.  Does that
clarification help at all?

 Even if Nuance has not implemented it for say FF has someone
 approached them? We can' t just  be supporting vision impairments.

 Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 4, 2013, at 9:35 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
 mailto:p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

 Hi Rich, At this point, since we couldn't find consensus and since
 this release was supposed to done last Fall and since I was informed
 that noone has implemented or shown a need for the three clipboard
 operations, I'm inclined to not hold up the release any further and
 handle this in a follow-on release if a project comes along that
 needs clipboard functionality and provides resource to drive the spec
 toward a well thought out definition of the clipboard methods.

 Pete

 On 2/4/13 8:51 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Hi Pete,

 The reason for the editing functions was to allow a voice reco
 solution to select text, edit it, and perform clipboard operations
 for the mobility impaired. It is additional work to have a voice
 reco solution have to go through the additional work of doing the
 additional keyboard simulations for doing that function.

 So, these are single actions. AccessibleEditableText also allows you
 to replace text, and set attributes, which takes offsets and
 replacement text/attributes. Accessible actions are single action
 functions that don't take parameters. ReplaceText is not the same as
 pasting from the clipboard. It is really nice to have all the
 features in the same interface. Note: One could bind the single
 command functions (cut, copy, paste) to the same actions in
 accessible actions.

 The other problem you have with actions is where do you apply it. Do
 you know to apply it only to the document. If Editable text is
 applied to text content within the document then you should now
 where to find the interface.

 Rich


 Rich Schwerdtfeger


-- 
*Pete Brunet*

a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
Ionosphere: WS4G
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Richard Schwerdtfeger

It appears the relations were moved to the new ia22 interface. Is that why you 
are deprecating the relations interface?

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 4, 2013, at 10:15 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger sch...@us.ibm.com wrote:

 Whe are relations deprecated? They are used extensively in both FF, Chrome, 
 and Symphony.
 
 Rich
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Feb 4, 2013, at 8:32 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:
 
 
 On 10/10/12 1:29 AM, James Teh wrote:
 Hi all, 
 
 Sorry for taking so long. Here is my feedback: 
 
 Accessible2.idl: 
 IAccessible2 has been removed from the Interfaces section. It should still 
 be included. (I see Pete has already acknowledged this.) 
 I'm not sure it makes sense to say the older interfaces (except 
 IAccessibleTable, which has essentially been completely replaced) are 
 deprecated, as the newer ones subclass them.
 I've removed the deprecated text from IAHypertext and IAText.  I think it 
 still make sense to indicate IARelation is deprecated.
 The IAccessible2 interface still contains the modifications relevant to 
 IAccessible2_2. Specifically, the max parameters for extendedStates and 
 localizedExtendedStates have been removed and the new methods attribute, 
 accessibleWithCaret and relationTargetsOfType have been added. I assume 
 this was unintentional in this latest version. This critical, as it will
breka binary compatibility.
 Yes, That was unintentional.  I diffed the old and new IAccessible2 and 
 fixed the problems.
 
 
 AccessibleDocument.idl: 
 Regarding IAccessibleDocument::anchorTarget, I wonder whether a relation 
 fits here, which would eliminate the need for this interface. I think this 
 was discussed before, but I can't remember why this idea was dropped. After 
 all, it just returns an accessible.
 Back on 12 Feb 12 you said:
 I feel a relation fits well enough here, but I don't feel strongly enough 
 about it to fight for it if others disagree. I'd pose the question: what 
 makes this so special as to justify a new method? Why is it more special 
 than, say, flowsTo or labelledBy? I guess it doesn't fit relations entirely, 
 as it isn't strictly related so much as state information. If that 
 argument is consensus, fair enough. 
 And I responded:
 Thanks Jamie, It appears there is no strong preference by anyone for any of 
 the various options.  Your observation about state vs relationship is 
 interesting and is enough to motivate me to choose a method over a relation.
 
 AccessibleHypertext2.idl: 
 The comments for the IAccessibleHypertext2 interface say: 
  The %IAccessibleHypertext interface is the main interface to expose 
   hyperlinks in a document, typically a text document... 
 This is a bit confusing, as this documentation is for 
 IAccessibleHypertext2, not IAccessibleHypertext. It should probably just 
 mention that this extends IAccessibleHypertext.   
 The same goes for IAccessibleText2.
 Thanks Jamie, I fixed that.
 
 I'll reply to Alex's feedback separately. 
 
 Thanks, 
 Jamie 
 
 On 21/09/2012 12:22 PM, Pete Brunet wrote: 
 I finished up the IA2 1.3 work over the weekend but due to some changes 
 on the LF web site am unable to post it there.  I've provided it at 
 a11ysoft.com.  Please review it.  I won't get to the object attributes 
 until later (to add explicit-name). 
 
 documentation: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html 
 zip file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2.zip 
 
 The one bug I see so far is that I don't have a link for the 
 IAccessible2 interface on the main page.  That is at: 
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html 
 
 The zip file contains everything I'll eventually post on the LF site, 
 among other things, changelog.txt and the merged IDL file, 
 ia2_api_all.idl. 
 
 Pete 
 -- 
 *Pete Brunet* 
 
 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development 
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell) 
 Skype: pete.brunet 
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN) 
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/ 
 Ionosphere: WS4G 
 
 
 ___ 
 Accessibility-ia2 mailing list 
 Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org 
 https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
 
 -- 
 Pete Brunet
  
 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
 Ionosphere: WS4G 
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Richard Schwerdtfeger

Partially.

So, cut, copy copy selected text to the clipboard. The details are handled by 
the rouser. Paste pasts to selected text or the insertion point (collapsed 
selection). What is the concern about clipboard functionality?

Rich

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 4, 2013, at 10:18 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

 
 On 2/4/13 4:56 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Did you check with Nuance? What appends if replacetext is removed?
 If you have a contact at Nuance please ask them to join the list.
 
 Only the clipboard methods are deprecated, which bascially means don't use 
 the cut/copy/paste methods until the IA2 spec can be changed to support the 
 varying implementations and ambiguities of clipboard functionality.  The rest 
 of the methods are not deprecated, i.e. deleteText, insertText, replaceText, 
 and setAttributes.  Does that clarification help at all?
 
 Even if Nuance has not implemented it for say FF has someone approached 
 them? We can' t just  be supporting vision impairments.
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Feb 4, 2013, at 9:35 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:
 
 Hi Rich, At this point, since we couldn't find consensus and since this 
 release was supposed to done last Fall and since I was informed that noone 
 has implemented or shown a need for the three clipboard operations, I'm 
 inclined to not hold up the release any further and handle this in a 
 follow-on release if a project comes along that needs clipboard 
 functionality and provides resource to drive the spec toward a well thought 
 out definition of the clipboard methods.
 
 Pete
 
 On 2/4/13 8:51 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Hi Pete,
 
 The reason for the editing functions was to allow a voice reco solution to 
 select text, edit it, and perform clipboard operations for the mobility 
 impaired. It is additional work to have a voice reco solution have to go 
 through the additional work of doing the additional keyboard simulations 
 for doing that function. 
 
 So, these are single actions. AccessibleEditableText also allows you to 
 replace text, and set attributes, which takes offsets and replacement 
 text/attributes. Accessible actions are single action functions that don't 
 take parameters. ReplaceText is not the same as pasting from the 
 clipboard. It is really nice to have all the features in the same 
 interface. Note: One could bind the single command functions (cut, copy, 
 paste) to the same actions in accessible actions.
 
 The other problem you have with actions is where do you apply it. Do you 
 know to apply it only to the document. If Editable text is applied to text 
 content within the document then you should now where to find the 
 interface. 
 
 Rich
 
 
 Rich Schwerdtfeger
 
 -- 
 Pete Brunet
  
 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Pete Brunet

The methods are replaced with IAccessible2_2::relationTargetsOfType.

One of today's edits was to add text to the doxygen commentary pointing
this out.

Pete

On 2/4/13 5:14 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 It appears the relations were moved to the new ia22 interface. Is that
 why you are deprecating the relations interface?

 Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 4, 2013, at 10:15 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger
 sch...@us.ibm.com mailto:sch...@us.ibm.com wrote:

 Whe are relations deprecated? They are used extensively in both FF,
 Chrome, and Symphony.

 Rich

 Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 4, 2013, at 8:32 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
 mailto:p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:


 On 10/10/12 1:29 AM, James Teh wrote:
 Hi all,

 Sorry for taking so long. Here is my feedback:

 Accessible2.idl:
 IAccessible2 has been removed from the Interfaces section. It
 should still be included. (I see Pete has already acknowledged this.)
 I'm not sure it makes sense to say the older interfaces (except
 IAccessibleTable, which has essentially been completely replaced)
 are deprecated, as the newer ones subclass them.
 I've removed the deprecated text from IAHypertext and IAText.  I
 think it still make sense to indicate IARelation is deprecated.
 The IAccessible2 interface still contains the modifications
 relevant to IAccessible2_2. Specifically, the max parameters for
 extendedStates and localizedExtendedStates have been removed and
 the new methods attribute, accessibleWithCaret and
 relationTargetsOfType have been added. I assume this was
 unintentional in this latest version. This critical, as it will
 breka binary compatibility.
 Yes, That was unintentional.  I diffed the old and new IAccessible2
 and fixed the problems.


 AccessibleDocument.idl:
 Regarding IAccessibleDocument::anchorTarget, I wonder whether a
 relation fits here, which would eliminate the need for this
 interface. I think this was discussed before, but I can't remember
 why this idea was dropped. After all, it just returns an accessible.
 Back on 12 Feb 12 you said:
 I feel a relation fits well enough here, but I don't feel strongly
 enough about it to fight for it if others disagree. I'd pose the
 question: what makes this so special as to justify a new method? Why
 is it more special than, say, flowsTo or labelledBy? I guess it
 doesn't fit relations entirely, as it isn't strictly related so
 much as state information. If that argument is consensus, fair enough.
 And I responded:
 Thanks Jamie, It appears there is no strong preference by anyone for
 any of the various options.  Your observation about state vs
 relationship is interesting and is enough to motivate me to choose a
 method over a relation.

 AccessibleHypertext2.idl:
 The comments for the IAccessibleHypertext2 interface say:
  The %IAccessibleHypertext interface is the main interface to expose
   hyperlinks in a document, typically a text document...
 This is a bit confusing, as this documentation is for
 IAccessibleHypertext2, not IAccessibleHypertext. It should probably
 just mention that this extends IAccessibleHypertext.
 The same goes for IAccessibleText2.
 Thanks Jamie, I fixed that.

 I'll reply to Alex's feedback separately.

 Thanks,
 Jamie

 On 21/09/2012 12:22 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:
 I finished up the IA2 1.3 work over the weekend but due to some
 changes
 on the LF web site am unable to post it there.  I've provided it at
 a11ysoft.com http://a11ysoft.com.  Please review it.  I won't
 get to the object attributes
 until later (to add explicit-name).

 documentation: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html
 zip file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2.zip

 The one bug I see so far is that I don't have a link for the
 IAccessible2 interface on the main page.  That is at:
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html

 The zip file contains everything I'll eventually post on the LF site,
 among other things, changelog.txt and the merged IDL file,
 ia2_api_all.idl.

 Pete
 -- 
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2013-02-04 Thread Pete Brunet


On 2/4/13 5:20 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Partially.

 So, cut, copy copy selected text to the clipboard. The details are
 handled by the rouser. Paste pasts to selected text or the insertion
 point (collapsed selection). What is the concern about clipboard
 functionality?
I'll have to dig through a month's worth of discussion on the list back
in June 2011.  I'll try to get to that at some point during the week. 
If you have time to look at it sooner look through the thread with
subject, next changes to IAccessible2 here:
http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2011-June/thread.html

 Rich

 Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 4, 2013, at 10:18 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
 mailto:p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:


 On 2/4/13 4:56 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Did you check with Nuance? What appends if replacetext is removed?
 If you have a contact at Nuance please ask them to join the list.

 Only the clipboard methods are deprecated, which bascially means
 don't use the cut/copy/paste methods until the IA2 spec can be
 changed to support the varying implementations and ambiguities of
 clipboard functionality.  The rest of the methods are not deprecated,
 i.e. deleteText, insertText, replaceText, and setAttributes.  Does
 that clarification help at all?

 Even if Nuance has not implemented it for say FF has someone
 approached them? We can' t just  be supporting vision impairments.

 Sent from my iPad

 On Feb 4, 2013, at 9:35 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com
 mailto:p...@a11ysoft.com wrote:

 Hi Rich, At this point, since we couldn't find consensus and since
 this release was supposed to done last Fall and since I was
 informed that noone has implemented or shown a need for the three
 clipboard operations, I'm inclined to not hold up the release any
 further and handle this in a follow-on release if a project comes
 along that needs clipboard functionality and provides resource to
 drive the spec toward a well thought out definition of the
 clipboard methods.

 Pete

 On 2/4/13 8:51 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger wrote:
 Hi Pete,

 The reason for the editing functions was to allow a voice reco
 solution to select text, edit it, and perform clipboard operations
 for the mobility impaired. It is additional work to have a voice
 reco solution have to go through the additional work of doing the
 additional keyboard simulations for doing that function.

 So, these are single actions. AccessibleEditableText also allows
 you to replace text, and set attributes, which takes offsets and
 replacement text/attributes. Accessible actions are single action
 functions that don't take parameters. ReplaceText is not the same
 as pasting from the clipboard. It is really nice to have all the
 features in the same interface. Note: One could bind the single
 command functions (cut, copy, paste) to the same actions in
 accessible actions.

 The other problem you have with actions is where do you apply it.
 Do you know to apply it only to the document. If Editable text is
 applied to text content within the document then you should now
 where to find the interface.

 Rich


 Rich Schwerdtfeger


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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2012-10-10 Thread James Teh


Hi all,

Sorry for taking so long. Here is my feedback:

Accessible2.idl:
IAccessible2 has been removed from the Interfaces section. It should 
still be included. (I see Pete has already acknowledged this.)
I'm not sure it makes sense to say the older interfaces (except 
IAccessibleTable, which has essentially been completely replaced) are 
deprecated, as the newer ones subclass them.
The IAccessible2 interface still contains the modifications relevant to 
IAccessible2_2. Specifically, the max parameters for extendedStates and 
localizedExtendedStates have been removed and the new methods attribute, 
accessibleWithCaret and relationTargetsOfType have been added. I assume 
this was unintentional in this latest version. This critical, as it will 
breka binary compatibility.


AccessibleDocument.idl:
Regarding IAccessibleDocument::anchorTarget, I wonder whether a relation 
fits here, which would eliminate the need for this interface. I think 
this was discussed before, but I can't remember why this idea was 
dropped. After all, it just returns an accessible.


AccessibleHypertext2.idl:
The comments for the IAccessibleHypertext2 interface say:
 The %IAccessibleHypertext interface is the main interface to expose
  hyperlinks in a document, typically a text document...
This is a bit confusing, as this documentation is for 
IAccessibleHypertext2, not IAccessibleHypertext. It should probably just 
mention that this extends IAccessibleHypertext.

The same goes for IAccessibleText2.

I'll reply to Alex's feedback separately.

Thanks,
Jamie

On 21/09/2012 12:22 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:

I finished up the IA2 1.3 work over the weekend but due to some changes
on the LF web site am unable to post it there.  I've provided it at
a11ysoft.com.  Please review it.  I won't get to the object attributes
until later (to add explicit-name).

documentation: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html
zip file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2.zip

The one bug I see so far is that I don't have a link for the
IAccessible2 interface on the main page.  That is at:
http://www.a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html

The zip file contains everything I'll eventually post on the LF site,
among other things, changelog.txt and the merged IDL file, ia2_api_all.idl.

Pete
--
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a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2012-10-10 Thread Alexander Surkov

Hi, Jamie. Answering inline.

 5) Document that copyText, cutText, and pasteText are deprecated.
 Can you please refresh me on it? The reason specified is This
 function is available via the application's GUI. but it seems it can
 be applied to the whole IAccessibleEditableText interface.

 I believe there was some talk a while ago about making these all actions
 which can be triggered using the standard action mechanism. This would
 require a way to perform an action given a constant. It is why the idea of
 using negative action indices came up.

It seems it doesn't answer why we can't turn out the whole
IAccessibleEditableText interface into actions.
Btw, I would prefer doAction taking a BSTR rather than negative
constant. Otherwise we should standardize all possible actions and we
don't leave a room for the server to introduce non-standard actions.

 6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure: we decided to
 go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all items at once
 even if the document is big and has many links?

It seems we didn't go with EnumVariant at all but we added maxCount
'in' argument. Should we have it here as well?

 7) IA2_RELATION_GROUPING_OBJECT_FOR: This object is a grouping object
 for the target object. - it'd be nice to give a hint for
 implementers. After a time I don't really remember what is it about :)

 I guess a grouping object/container would expose this relation referring to
 all objects it contains. Is this really useful?

It'd be nice to have examples. Does it applicable to HTML fieldset and
HTML form? Should it include the element connected by node_child_of
relation if the element is not a descendant?

Thank you.
Alex.


On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 3:39 PM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote:
 On 24/09/2012 2:52 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

 5) Document that copyText, cutText, and pasteText are deprecated.
 Can you please refresh me on it? The reason specified is This
 function is available via the application's GUI. but it seems it can
 be applied to the whole IAccessibleEditableText interface.

 I believe there was some talk a while ago about making these all actions
 which can be triggered using the standard action mechanism. This would
 require a way to perform an action given a constant. It is why the idea of
 using negative action indices came up.


 6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure: we decided to
 go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all items at once
 even if the document is big and has many links?

 Isn't that the whole point of this method? Otherwise, wouldn't
 IAccessibleHypertext::hyperlink be enough? Maybe I'm missing something...


 7) IA2_RELATION_GROUPING_OBJECT_FOR: This object is a grouping object
 for the target object. - it'd be nice to give a hint for
 implementers. After a time I don't really remember what is it about :)

 I guess a grouping object/container would expose this relation referring to
 all objects it contains. Is this really useful?


 9)  Description for IA2_RELATION_POPUP_INITIATOR_FOR doesn't make
 things really clear for implementers too.

 Yeah; I have no idea what this is for. :)

 Btw, the used string is
 popInitiatorFor,

 Looks like a typo to me.

 Thanks,
 Jamie


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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2012-10-10 Thread James Teh


On 10/10/2012 5:07 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

It seems [introducing actions for editable text operations] doesn't answer why 
we can't turn out the whole
IAccessibleEditableText interface into actions.

I agree and tend to think this is the way forward.


Btw, I would prefer doAction taking a BSTR rather than negative
constant. Otherwise we should standardize all possible actions and we
don't leave a room for the server to introduce non-standard actions.
This requires a new method (and thus a new interface), which was the 
main reason for avoiding it. However, I'm not really against this. Using 
strings is a touch more expensive, but it's negligible and more extensible.



6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure: we decided to
go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all items at once
even if the document is big and has many links?

It seems we didn't go with EnumVariant at all but we added maxCount
'in' argument. Should we have it here as well?
We could do that. The question is whether an AT is ever going to want to 
retrieve anything other than one or all hyperlinks. I can only come up 
with use cases for one or all.


Jamie

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2012-10-10 Thread Alexander Surkov

 Btw, I would prefer doAction taking a BSTR rather than negative
 constant. Otherwise we should standardize all possible actions and we
 don't leave a room for the server to introduce non-standard actions.

 This requires a new method (and thus a new interface), which was the main
 reason for avoiding it. However, I'm not really against this.

I see.

 Using strings
 is a touch more expensive, but it's negligible and more extensible.

we can go with VARIANT as we did for object attributes.

Alex.


On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:24 PM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote:
 On 10/10/2012 5:07 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

 It seems [introducing actions for editable text operations] doesn't answer
 why we can't turn out the whole
 IAccessibleEditableText interface into actions.

 I agree and tend to think this is the way forward.


 Btw, I would prefer doAction taking a BSTR rather than negative
 constant. Otherwise we should standardize all possible actions and we
 don't leave a room for the server to introduce non-standard actions.

 This requires a new method (and thus a new interface), which was the main
 reason for avoiding it. However, I'm not really against this. Using strings
 is a touch more expensive, but it's negligible and more extensible.


 6) IAccessibleHypertext2::hyperlinks. Just to make sure: we decided to
 go with array instead EnumVariant? Do AT want to get all items at once
 even if the document is big and has many links?

 It seems we didn't go with EnumVariant at all but we added maxCount
 'in' argument. Should we have it here as well?

 We could do that. The question is whether an AT is ever going to want to
 retrieve anything other than one or all hyperlinks. I can only come up with
 use cases for one or all.


 Jamie

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2012-10-10 Thread James Teh


On 10/10/2012 5:31 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

Using strings [for IAccessibleAction]
is a touch more expensive, but it's negligible and more extensible.

we can go with VARIANT as we did for object attributes.
I'm not sure this makes sense. Do you mean standard constants would be 
numeric and custom ones would be strings?


Jamie

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2012-10-10 Thread Alexander Surkov

 we can go with VARIANT as we did for object attributes.

 I'm not sure this makes sense. Do you mean standard constants would be
 numeric and custom ones would be strings?

yes

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 4:41 PM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote:
 On 10/10/2012 5:31 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote:

 Using strings [for IAccessibleAction]

 is a touch more expensive, but it's negligible and more extensible.

 we can go with VARIANT as we did for object attributes.

 I'm not sure this makes sense. Do you mean standard constants would be
 numeric and custom ones would be strings?


 Jamie

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2012-09-25 Thread James Teh

I do intend to review this thoroughly. However, it may be a few days 
before I can get to it.


Jamie

On 21/09/2012 12:22 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:

I finished up the IA2 1.3 work over the weekend but due to some changes
on the LF web site am unable to post it there.  I've provided it at
a11ysoft.com.  Please review it.  I won't get to the object attributes
until later (to add explicit-name).

documentation: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html
zip file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2.zip

The one bug I see so far is that I don't have a link for the
IAccessible2 interface on the main page.  That is at:
http://www.a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html

The zip file contains everything I'll eventually post on the LF site,
among other things, changelog.txt and the merged IDL file, ia2_api_all.idl.

Pete
--
*Pete Brunet*

a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2012-09-25 Thread Richard Schwerdtfeger


Copy that. I just got back from vacation and am slammed.

Rich


Rich Schwerdtfeger



From:   James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org
To: IAccessible2 mailing list
accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org,
Date:   09/25/2012 02:14 AM
Subject:Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review
Sent by:accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org



I do intend to review this thoroughly. However, it may be a few days
before I can get to it.

Jamie

On 21/09/2012 12:22 PM, Pete Brunet wrote:
 I finished up the IA2 1.3 work over the weekend but due to some changes
 on the LF web site am unable to post it there.  I've provided it at
 a11ysoft.com.  Please review it.  I won't get to the object attributes
 until later (to add explicit-name).

 documentation: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html
 zip file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2.zip

 The one bug I see so far is that I don't have a link for the
 IAccessible2 interface on the main page.  That is at:
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html

 The zip file contains everything I'll eventually post on the LF site,
 among other things, changelog.txt and the merged IDL file,
ia2_api_all.idl.

 Pete
 --
 *Pete Brunet*

 a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
 (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
 Skype: pete.brunet
 IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
 http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
 Ionosphere: WS4G


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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2012-09-21 Thread Arnstein Skåra

Congratulations all! accessibleWithCaret, thank you very much. Keep up 
the great work.


Best,
Arnstein

On 21.09.2012 04:22, Pete Brunet wrote:
I finished up the IA2 1.3 work over the weekend but due to some 
changes on the LF web site am unable to post it there.  I've provided 
it at a11ysoft.com.  Please review it.  I won't get to the object 
attributes until later (to add explicit-name).


documentation: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html
zip file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2.zip

The one bug I see so far is that I don't have a link for the 
IAccessible2 interface on the main page.  That is at:

http://www.a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html

The zip file contains everything I'll eventually post on the LF site, 
among other things, changelog.txt and the merged IDL file, 
ia2_api_all.idl.


Pete
--
*Pete Brunet*

a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
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[Accessibility-ia2] IA2 1.3 ready for review

2012-09-20 Thread Pete Brunet

I finished up the IA2 1.3 work over the weekend but due to some changes
on the LF web site am unable to post it there.  I've provided it at
a11ysoft.com.  Please review it.  I won't get to the object attributes
until later (to add explicit-name).

documentation:  http://a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html
zip file: http://a11ysoft.com/ia2.zip

The one bug I see so far is that I don't have a link for the
IAccessible2 interface on the main page.  That is at:
http://www.a11ysoft.com/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html

The zip file contains everything I'll eventually post on the LF site,
among other things, changelog.txt and the merged IDL file, ia2_api_all.idl.

Pete 
-- 
*Pete Brunet*

a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development
(512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell)
Skype: pete.brunet
IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN)
http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/
Ionosphere: WS4G
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