Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[chuck]

MoviePass makes you send a photo of your ticket now.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 9:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review


Saw Hotel Artemis last night I felt it needed another hour of storyline.

Have not made it to Ocean's 8 yet... my MoviePass is getting a good workout 
though

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Jaime Solorza" 
To: "Animal Farm" 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Movie Review
Date: Sat, Jun 9, 2018 8:10 PM

We watched Death Wish with Bruce Willis at homeit's okay 

Jaime Solorza

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 7:02 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Oceans 8

  Meh

  OK, Movie Pass made me not regret paying for it.
  Just was not funny like the other Ocean movies.  

[AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Chuck McCown]

Oceans 8

Meh

OK, Movie Pass made me not regret paying for it.
Just was not funny like the other Ocean movies.  

Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik / Mimosa Ethernet Errors

[Chuck McCown]

Surge suppressors can certainly cause this.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 9, 2018, at 2:58 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
> 
> What suppressors?
> 
>> On 6/9/2018 3:23 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>> I have a A5C that is giving me grief.  I'm getting hundreds of Rx FCS errors 
>> on the Mikrotik when I'm running gigabit, if I force it to 100 fdx, the Rx 
>> FCS errors stop, but Rx Code errors start incrementing instead.  I've always 
>> gotten some amount of Rx FCS errors from Mimosa A5/A5C units, but not nearly 
>> this many.  It's starting to have an effect on service on the sector.
>> 
>> Any ideas what I should look at?  Some people were claiming that putting 
>> something like a Netonix in between the Mimosa and the Mikrotik solved their 
>> issues, but I'm wondering if the surge suppressors are creating an issue as 
>> well.
>> 
>> -Jason
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[chuck]

I should say, slowly shipping small quantities to beta test customers.  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 2:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

I already have that.  We are slowly shipping small quantities.  Ramping up.
Adding the single pol and adding the Andrew valuline adapter.  

From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 1:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

So you won’t have a dual pol adapter?


Jeff Broadwick 
CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Jun 9, 2018, at 3:02 PM,   wrote:


  Working on REMEC rectangular to AF11X adapters today.  Only one polarization 
will be used.  But at least the antenna can get reused.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 12:58 PM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

  Que pasa , calabasa?


  Jaime Solorza

  On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 12:01 PM  wrote:

Received one minute before you sent it.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

Received here about 1pm central.

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[chuck]

I already have that.  We are slowly shipping small quantities.  Ramping up.
Adding the single pol and adding the Andrew valuline adapter.  

From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 1:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

So you won’t have a dual pol adapter?


Jeff Broadwick 
CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Jun 9, 2018, at 3:02 PM,   wrote:


  Working on REMEC rectangular to AF11X adapters today.  Only one polarization 
will be used.  But at least the antenna can get reused.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 12:58 PM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

  Que pasa , calabasa?


  Jaime Solorza

  On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 12:01 PM  wrote:

Received one minute before you sent it.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

Received here about 1pm central.

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[chuck]

Working on REMEC rectangular to AF11X adapters today.  Only one polarization 
will be used.  But at least the antenna can get reused.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 12:58 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

Que pasa , calabasa?


Jaime Solorza

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018, 12:01 PM  wrote:

  Received one minute before you sent it.  

  From: Jason McKemie 
  Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:59 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

  Received here about 1pm central.

  On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

[chuck]

Received one minute before you sent it.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Saturday, June 9, 2018 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Test 6/9 @ 11:00 Pacific

Received here about 1pm central.

On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 12:57 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[chuck]

Oh, input on 900, yes.  
Get the guys in Devon to roll a PTP600 in a 900 MHz version.  

From: Brian Sullivan 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

A neat product (which we couldn't use around here) would be a 5G 450 AP with 
900MHz OFDM PTP built in.  Although you would have to use all the available 
900Mhz spectrum to make it worthwhile.
Perhaps a nLOS 3.65 or LTE PTP combined with 450 AP would work in some areas.


On 6/8/2018 12:03 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but getting into 
the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we can get a 
point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a subdivision, you 
can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS will sometimes even work 
with 5ghz at that kind of range.


  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D  wrote:

And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a thing 
as "under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're in the 
trees. 

900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.  

-Steve D

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:

  Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?


  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
   wrote:

  > Very good question George…
  >
  >
  >
  > I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are 
using
  > the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
  > option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
  > extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
  >
  >
  >
  > Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
  > installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
  > “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is 
that a
  > really common situation?  How common?
  >
  >
  >
  > Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
  > others)…
  >
  >
  >
  > Matt
  >
  >
  >
  > From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
  > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
  > To: af@afmug.com
  > Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
  >
  >
  >
  > Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 
450-based
  > micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
  >
  > On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
  >
  > I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device
  > like this help you in your network?
  >
  > �
  >
  > Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
  >
  > �
  >
  > Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
  > It�s only 16 questions.
  >
  > �
  >
  > Matt
  >
  > �
  >
  > From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
  > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
  > To: 'af@afmug.com' 
  > Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
  >
  > �
  >
  > Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
  >
  > https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
  >
  > �
  >
  > �
  >
  > Join the Conversation
  >
  > Cambium Networks Community Forum
  >
  > �
  >
  >

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[chuck]

I wonder how much speed you could get from a 900 radio that uses the whole 20 
MHz.  If that was the output of the micropop and you kept distances short and 
antenna gains up it would hammer through almost anything.  Say 512 QAM.  You 
could deliver 100 Mbps.  Of course you would be claiming a monopoly on the 
whole band.  Perhaps OFDM might be a better way to go.  Use the orthogon method 
to occupy as much as you can find.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 11:03 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Yeah, "under the canopy" doesn't really happen around here, but getting into 
the middle of the trees does work in some cases... if we can get a 
point-to-point link working to one house in the middle of a subdivision, you 
can often get LOS to several other houses and  nLOS will sometimes even work 
with 5ghz at that kind of range.


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve D  wrote:

  And in bands outside of 5GHz as well.  I don't think there is such a thing as 
"under the canopy" around here.  When you're in the trees, you're in the trees. 

  900 in a lite configuration would be ideal for us.  

  -Steve D

  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 7:05 AM Matt  wrote:

Why not just make a PMP450i lite connectorized AP?


On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 8:19 AM, Matt Mangriotis
 wrote:

> Very good question George…
>
>
>
> I am trying to gauge interest.  Some folks would prefer that they are 
using
> the same equipment throughout the network, and we don’t really have an
> option right now for a lower priced (shorter range) but high throughput
> extension of the network, but still a 450.  Same SMs, etc…
>
>
>
> Really wondering if many folks can’t complete a certain percentage of
> installs due to obstructions (foliage) using 5 GHz, but could utilize an
> “under the canopy” type of solution to light up a neighborhood.  Is that a
> really common situation?  How common?
>
>
>
> Any feedback is welcome, and I value your guys’ opinions (more than some
> others)…
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> From: Af  On Behalf Of George Skorup
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 9:48 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
>
>
> Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 
450-based
> micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.
>
> On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:
>
> I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device
> like this help you in your network?
>
> �
>
> Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!
>
> �
>
> Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.�
> It�s only 16 questions.
>
> �
>
> Matt
>
> �
>
> From: Af  On Behalf Of Ray Savich
> Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
> To: 'af@afmug.com' 
> Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey
>
> �
>
> Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.
>
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP
>
> �
>
> �
>
> Join the Conversation
>
> Cambium Networks Community Forum
>
> �
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[chuck]

Not sure.  Since the domain has not transferred yet I cannot even get into the 
back end of the new list server.  Not sure how many knobs it has.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

if there is a mechanism to sign up manually, it might be best to share in the 
event it doesnt migrate well so the info is already out there 

out of curiousity, is the new list going to be publicly searchable like the aws 
list?




On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:10 AM  wrote:

  I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I 
believe there is a bulk import.  
  It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.  

  From: Carl Peterson 
  Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

  So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new list?  

  On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:

It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal 
it away from them.

I have mailman hired to host.  

I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in 
process” or something like that.  




  -- 

  Carl Peterson


  PORT NETWORKS

  401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

  Baltimore, MD 21202

  (410) 637-3707 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

[chuck]

A 450 translator would be a cool device. 
5G in and some other frequency out.  

Essentially an SM and AP in one box.  

SM circuit for the backhaul, AP for the micropop.  Maintains timing etc.  

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

Because you have a few thousand 450 subs and don't wan't to have to stock your 
vans with something new. 
Because you want to unload some of your sectors without re-installing 
customers, just a repoint.  Being able to move 20-30 subs off a sector to a 
micropop is huge. 

Because you want consistency for your back office and support staff.

Because you need to pay a lineman to put it up on a pole above the Electrical 
space and don't want to touch it for 5-8 years. (I have no idea what ePMP 
reliability looks like but have had plenty FSK etc gear up for 10+ years) 


For me, the perfect 450 micropop would be an omni 450M with Direct DC input, an 
SFP, a copper port, and an integrated GPS receiver.  1A 48V POE out would be 
nice too.  Something in the 1-1.5K price range to support 20-30 subs with a 
form factor like the A5-19.  I could power it and a Siklu with a two 48V runs 
up the pole, or just it with fiber and DC up the pole.  


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:47 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

  Ok, I guess I have to be the one to say this. Why would we want a 450-based 
micro-POP product when we have ePMP? Just askin'.


  On 6/7/2018 10:29 AM, Matt Mangriotis wrote:

I would really like to get your opinions on this topic� would a 450 
device like this help you in your network?

�

Now�s you chance to comment and help direct us!

�

Please fill out the short survey and add any other info you�d like.� 
It�s only 16 questions.

�

Matt

�

From: Af mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com On Behalf Of Ray Savich
Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:08 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com' mailto:af@afmug.com
Subject [AFMUG] Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey

�

Add your input to the Cambium Networks MicroPOP survey.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/CambiumMicroPOP 

�

�

Join the Conversation

Cambium Networks Community Forum

�







-- 

Carl Peterson


PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Pop the cover on the AF5x, there is a tiny screwdriver adjustment marked 
“freq”.  Just tweak it up to 6 GHz and you are good to go.  Saves lots of money 
that way.  

From: Jeremy 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 10:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

I have an AF5X on 3' UBNT dishes (x-pol modified) that does 300x100 at 19 
miles.  It is about to be swapped for 6GHz though.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Rory Conaway  wrote:

  Mimosa B5c can pull 500Mbps to 1Gbps on that type of link depending on how 
much spectrum you want to use.



  Rory 



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:32 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



  Well, that explains everything.



  From: Chris Fabien 

  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



  3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!



  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:

Wow, what size dishes?



From: Chris Fabien 

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in 
both directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio. 



On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost, 
but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.



The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's 
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too, but 
I assume you know where to get those...





On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down 
ratio the customer will be buying yet.  



If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?



From: Mathew Howard 

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM

To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case). 
If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around 140Mbps 
each way.

Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I 
probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get a 
little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher 
modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam (it 
probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would also add 
some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but the hd can go 
up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).



An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I haven't 
priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.





On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

  Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??



  From: Mathew Howard 

  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM

  To: af 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed



  Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use 
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only difference 
between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).





  Error! Filename not specified.









  On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW

or

AF5X + AF-5G34-S45



?



Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] this list

[chuck]

I should be able to automatically sign everyone up.  I have the list.  I 
believe there is a bulk import.  
It may send you a note asking you to verify.  I would hope it will.  

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Friday, June 8, 2018 9:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] this list

So before it dies, is there a process for us to sign up for the new list?  

On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 10:55 AM,  wrote:

  It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal it 
away from them.

  I have mailman hired to host.  

  I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in 
process” or something like that.  




-- 

Carl Peterson


PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 

[AFMUG] this list

[chuck]

It is gonna die any day now.  I gave GoDaddy the magic Tucows key to steal it 
away from them.

I have mailman hired to host.  

I keep checking on the status of the domain transfer and it just says “in 
process” or something like that.  

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah, nightmare...

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 6:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

He's talking about having all routers in OSPF area 0, not a truly flat L2 
broadcast-domain nightmare. 


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  To me, flat network means all MACs are in the same broadcast domain.  
  That is what I did with my first Canopy system.  
  Did not even know what a VLAN was back then.  

  From: Gino A. Villarini 
  Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 5:47 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

  Our network by all means is flat as all services converge into our core.  We 
started by using vlans and qinq but later migrated to mpls/vpls.

  Now watching evpn as the next step..

  From: Af  on behalf of Lewis Bergman 

  Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:09 PM
  To: "af@afmug.com" 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?


  Gino would probably be your best source for advice as I'll bet he has one of 
the largest networks of similar construction. I think he went MPLS to deal with 
a variety of issues he was having, including OSPF. But maybe Gino can speak up 
on the issue.  
  Typically, if you didn't want to do anything else, you would consider iBGP 
and break the OSPF domains up in some logical way. The big determining factor 
for me for such things is the occurrence route flapping and how often it 
happens. Route flapping will be the big indicator that you are to big and OSPF 
can't keep up. You can do some tweaking but at some point it just all falls 
apart. The bad part about waiting till that happens is you will loose a lot of 
customers trying to make things stable again.
  I would think Denis also would have a much better informed path to take and 
I'll bet he would be happy to contract to help you. Probably money well spent.




Gino A. Villarini
   
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 



  On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:40 PM Brough Turner  wrote:

We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 600+ 
routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of 
routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at 
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but I'd hate to hit 
some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
networks?
And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?

Thanks,
Brough

Brough Turner
netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
netBlazr Inc. | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog | Personal 
website 

Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

[Chuck McCown]

To me, flat network means all MACs are in the same broadcast domain.  
That is what I did with my first Canopy system.  
Did not even know what a VLAN was back then.  

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 5:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?

Our network by all means is flat as all services converge into our core.  We 
started by using vlans and qinq but later migrated to mpls/vpls.

Now watching evpn as the next step..

From: Af  on behalf of Lewis Bergman 

Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
Date: Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 3:09 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF - How large can a flat network grow?


Gino would probably be your best source for advice as I'll bet he has one of 
the largest networks of similar construction. I think he went MPLS to deal with 
a variety of issues he was having, including OSPF. But maybe Gino can speak up 
on the issue.  
Typically, if you didn't want to do anything else, you would consider iBGP and 
break the OSPF domains up in some logical way. The big determining factor for 
me for such things is the occurrence route flapping and how often it happens. 
Route flapping will be the big indicator that you are to big and OSPF can't 
keep up. You can do some tweaking but at some point it just all falls apart. 
The bad part about waiting till that happens is you will loose a lot of 
customers trying to make things stable again.
I would think Denis also would have a much better informed path to take and 
I'll bet he would be happy to contract to help you. Probably money well spent.



  Gino A. Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 




On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:40 PM Brough Turner  wrote:

  We're an urban WISP with a dense mesh of wireless links and a router per 
building. I am concerned that, without paying attention, we have grown to 600+ 
routers and ~2550 routes in one OSPF domain. This network has a diverse mix of 
routers from CCR1036s down to RB750UPs. We're not having any OSPF problems at 
this time and I have plenty of other things to worry about, but I'd hate to hit 
some limit and have the whole thing blow up.

  Does anyone have experience (positive or negative) with large flat OSPF 
networks?
  And, if you have had problems, what were the problems?

  Thanks,
  Brough

  Brough Turner
  netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
  Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
  netBlazr Inc. | Google+ | Twitter | LinkedIn | Facebook | Blog | Personal 
website 

Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

[chuck]

He did die.  Couple of years ago.

Wife # 7(?) and an unethical estate attorney carried on the fight (along 
with about a dozen other attorneys).
Aided of course by all the 30 something middle managers that were slid into 
the positions vacated after the massacre 4.5 years ago.


I say she is unethical because she was recently sanctioned by the Utah 
Supreme Court for being unethical.  So not gonna worry about putting that 
out there...  'tis neither slander nor libel.


-Original Message- 
From: Robert Andrews

Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

When the bastard dies

On 06/07/2018 01:01 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 6/6/18 12:10, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That storm cloud that followed me for 1366 days has been gone for a few 
months now.  I am under a confidentiality agreement and a non 
disparagement agreement so not going to say too much.



Does it have an expiration so you can write a tell all exposé then sell 
the movie rights for big money?

Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

[chuck]

No expiration.  But I am sure there would not be big money either...

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 2:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] from Paul - List hosting

On 6/6/18 12:10, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
That storm cloud that followed me for 1366 days has been gone for a few 
months now.  I am under a confidentiality agreement and a non 
disparagement agreement so not going to say too much.



Does it have an expiration so you can write a tell all exposé then sell
the movie rights for big money? 

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[Chuck McCown]

I have found that the more you start a sentence with “can you help me” the 
better it is.  

From: David Sovereen 
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2018 12:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

I agree that those are the items to focus on with OSHA.


  Item 1:
  "The employer did not require a competent person to inspect."

Except that is incorrect.  The person who fell WAS a competent person.  He held 
a “Competent Climber” certification card from CITCA.  A significant portion of 
that training includes assessing if a tower is safe to climb in accordance with 
OSHAs rules.  A competent person is not a structural engineer.  A competent 
person is someone who has been trained on assessing if a tower is safe to climb 
in accordance with OSHAs rules.

  Item 2:
  "...the employer did not ensure complete personal fall arrest systems were 
properly used".

A policy was in place.  The person knew how to use it properly and was required 
by company policy to follow it.  Our Employee Handbook states under “Guidelines 
for Conduct” that “The following kinds of conduct are absolutely prohibited: … 
Violation of any and all safety rules.”  At some point, there needs to be 
personal accountability.

I agree that being humble and asking for help and guidance is the best 
approach, so I’ll show them what we’ve done up til now and see what they 
suggest for improvement.

David Sovereen
 
Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
 
Telephone |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring

david.sover...@mercury.net
www.mercury.net


 


  On Jun 6, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:



  In reading this citation there are two phrases which I think get to the meat 
of what the person writing the citation intended:

  Item 1:
  "The employer did not require a competent person to inspect."
  Item 2:
  "...the employer did not ensure complete personal fall arrest systems were 
properly used".

  I've bolded what I consider the two most relevant words.   The question I'd 
be asking is what policies were actually in place at the time of the accident, 
and what was the ramifications to the employee if they didn't follow them.
Evidently providing safety gear isn't enough, the employer is responsible to 
make sure that employees actually use them.   If you had policies in place that 
required the use of the gear, and took affirmative action when an employee was 
caught violating the policies, and have now re-verified that the gear met the 
requirements, I'd go back to OSHA and ask them, what you could have done 
differently considering you've done everything correctly.

  Go into it with the mindset that if you screwed up you're going to have to 
pay these fines (or at least what you can negotiate them down to), and that you 
really want to learn what you did to screw up.   If the answer is that you did 
everything right, it will be hard for them to continue with the fines.   If 
they find you did something wrong then talk to them about how to fix it.   I've 
heard story after story like this (fortunately never had to deal with it 
myself), and it seems that a learning/compliant attitude goes a long way toward 
them being willing to drop or decrease the fines.   I'm not saying to not 
correct incorrect information (such as the rohn 25 load rating), but instead to 
take what they say and try to understand whether or not you needed to make a 
correction.

  Be mindful that the people who work for OSHA have the job to make the 
workplace safer, and I'm sure that after a workplace death they feel like there 
should be something that could have been done differently.  Hopefully they'll 
come to the realization that you were doing everything you should have been 
doing, and that you've also learned a couple things which you can do above and 
beyond that, and as a result, the fine is dropped or reduced significantly.

  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen  
wrote:

Hi All,

A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a 
Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall 
protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall 
protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his 
harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He 
slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour 
later at the hospital.

We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them. 




I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 
5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  
He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just 
trying to come up with reasons to fine us.

When I went 

Re: [AFMUG] List

[Chuck McCown]

To drink or not to drink.  Pros and cons
Pros
Buzz

Cons
Dick stops working, even the next day
Ugly women look good to you
You hit on ugly women
You can fu*k up your ability to get insurance or a drivers license
Hangovers
Puke mouth
Kissing a puke mouth
Beer goggles
Beer gut
Puking
Cleaning up Puke
Screwing your buddies wife
Waking up in jail for no apparent reason
Waking up in your car not knowing where you are
Waking up not knowing where you are
Discovering you bought many rounds for the whole bar on your credit card
Waking up with a new girlfriend that you don’t know.
Learning you were making out with a totally fugly girl that is old enough to be 
your mother.
Puking in public venues before thousands of people
Waking up face down in a bathtub thinking you are dead because all you can see 
is white.  
Did I mention that your dick stops working...

So I have been told...


From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 3:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] List

i havent been drinking, so its ok 
thats a lie though
i have been drinking
and its not ok


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:13 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

  Good to hear, I'm having withdrawals. 


  On Wednesday, June 6, 2018,  wrote:

I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on the AWS is 
getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put it off long enough. 
 Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move to mailmanhost.com
Will probably take a few days.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] List

Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless 
everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[chuck]

Yeah, just like school "cooperate and graduate"  never paid to correct the 
error of the teacher.


-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen

Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 4:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

On 6/6/18 9:10 AM, David Sovereen wrote:
I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 
5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing 
oneself.  He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think 
they are just trying to come up with reasons to fine us.




So now that Rohn has proven this is a totally false statement, have you
passed that along to OSHA or has Rohn indicated they would be interested
in talking to OSHA?

I don't think the OSHA guys are going to like being told they are wrong.

~Seth 

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Well, that explains everything.

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

3ft... Jirous on one side and one of the WB Optic on the other actually!

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 5:17 PM  wrote:

  Wow, what size dishes?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

  Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in both 
directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio. 

  On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost, 
but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.

The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's 
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too, but 
I assume you know where to get those...


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

  Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up 
down ratio the customer will be buying yet.  

  If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

  That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case). 
If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around 140Mbps 
each way.

  Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I 
probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get a 
little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher 
modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam (it 
probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would also add 
some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but the hd can go 
up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).

  An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I 
haven't priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.


  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably 
use AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only 
difference between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).







On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
  or
  AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

  ?

  Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep 
the bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Wow, what size dishes?

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 3:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

Chuck we just did a 13 mile link using AF5XHD, getting about 350mbps in both 
directions using 60mhz and 50/50 ratio. 

On Jun 6, 2018 2:42 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

  Yeah, if you go with 3' dishes you might be getting close to $1500 in cost, 
but that'll easily cover it with 2 footers.

  The only parts involved are going to be the dishes and the radios, so it's 
pretty simple to price... well, I suppose mounts and surge suppressors too, but 
I assume you know where to get those...


  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:14 PM,  wrote:

Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down 
ratio the customer will be buying yet.  

If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case). 
If you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around 140Mbps 
each way.

Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I 
probably could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get a 
little higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher 
modulations at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam (it 
probably could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would also add 
some 20% capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but the hd can go 
up to 100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).

An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I haven't 
priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

  Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

  Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use 
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only difference 
between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).







  On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
or
AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

?

Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[chuck]

+1000

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 1:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

First, I would think Rohn would have a legitimate "3rd party" interest in your 
citation. I would definitely see if they would like to be involved. 
I think you can still be contrite and interested in correcting your procedures 
while searching for the truth and the right way to do things. Probably how you 
communicate the information might be as important, in this case, as what you 
communicate. Maybe Rohn would be interested in taking up the main role to 
educate the OSHA guy so you can be unscathed by it.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018, 9:01 AM  wrote:

  Oh, yeah, position lanyard, not the shock arrest lanyard.  

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:45 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25
  I'm assuming he means you need to have a shorter lanyard than normal 
well, a position lanyard shouldn't be stretching anyway, should it?

  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM,  wrote:

Aren’t most lanyards designed to stretch out to the 6 foot mark when 
falling?  In other words, even if you had it positioned right in front of your 
face, you will still drop 6 feet, right?

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.

ROHN 25 is **not** compliant for the 5,000lb drop from 6' but it is from 3' 
so you always have to have a 3' position lanyard holding you, even while you 
climb.   

I would contact CITCA (or we use https://www.safetyoneinc.com ) or any 
other trainer to give you documentation about the ROHN 25.


-Sean

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen 
 wrote:

  Hi All,

  A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a 
Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall 
protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall 
protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his 
harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He 
slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour 
later at the hospital.

  We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them. 




  I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 
5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  
He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just 
trying to come up with reasons to fine us.

  When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person 
to identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, were.  
When my employees go through the training, they become competent in determining 
where suitable anchor points are, do they not?

  If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear, 
told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it, am I 
responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his harness on 
and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a lot of turmoil 
putting himself through “what if” scenarios.

  Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?  
Pay it and make it go away?  Something else?

  Thanks,

  David Sovereen

  Mercury Network Corporation
  2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
  989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax

  Telephone |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring

  david.sover...@mercury.net
  www.mercury.net

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[chuck]

Oh, yeah, position lanyard, not the shock arrest lanyard.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:45 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

I'm assuming he means you need to have a shorter lanyard than normal well, 
a position lanyard shouldn't be stretching anyway, should it?


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:39 PM,  wrote:

  Aren’t most lanyards designed to stretch out to the 6 foot mark when falling? 
 In other words, even if you had it positioned right in front of your face, you 
will still drop 6 feet, right?

  From: Sean Heskett 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:24 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

  I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.

  ROHN 25 is **not** compliant for the 5,000lb drop from 6' but it is from 3' 
so you always have to have a 3' position lanyard holding you, even while you 
climb.   

  I would contact CITCA (or we use https://www.safetyoneinc.com ) or any other 
trainer to give you documentation about the ROHN 25.


  -Sean

  On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen  
wrote:

Hi All,

A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a 
Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall 
protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall 
protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his 
harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He 
slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour 
later at the hospital.

We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them. 




I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He 
tells me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 
5,000 lbs and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  
He says all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just 
trying to come up with reasons to fine us.

When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person to 
identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, were.  
When my employees go through the training, they become competent in determining 
where suitable anchor points are, do they not?

If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear, 
told to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it, am I 
responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his harness on 
and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a lot of turmoil 
putting himself through “what if” scenarios.

Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?  Pay 
it and make it go away?  Something else?

Thanks,

David Sovereen

Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax

Telephone |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring

david.sover...@mercury.net
www.mercury.net

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[chuck]

Aren’t most lanyards designed to stretch out to the 6 foot mark when falling?  
In other words, even if you had it positioned right in front of your face, you 
will still drop 6 feet, right?

From: Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.

ROHN 25 is **not** compliant for the 5,000lb drop from 6' but it is from 3' so 
you always have to have a 3' position lanyard holding you, even while you 
climb.   

I would contact CITCA (or we use https://www.safetyoneinc.com ) or any other 
trainer to give you documentation about the ROHN 25.


-Sean

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 10:10 AM, David Sovereen  
wrote:

  Hi All,

  A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a 
Rohn 25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall 
protection gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall 
protection gear was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his 
harness on, but he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He 
slipped, fell approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour 
later at the hospital.

  We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them. 




  I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He tells 
me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 5,000 lbs 
and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  He says 
all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just trying to 
come up with reasons to fine us.

  When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person to 
identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, were.  
When my employees go through the training, they become competent in determining 
where suitable anchor points are, do they not?

  If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear, told 
to always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it, am I 
responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his harness on 
and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a lot of turmoil 
putting himself through “what if” scenarios.

  Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?  Pay 
it and make it go away?  Something else?

  Thanks,

  David Sovereen

  Mercury Network Corporation
  2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
  989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax

  Telephone |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring

  david.sover...@mercury.net
  www.mercury.net

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Thanks, that is what I am looking for.  Actually not sure yet what up down 
ratio the customer will be buying yet.  

If I tell the owners $1500 for parts then I should be good to go?

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:47 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

That's because airfibers use a fixed up/down ratio (75/25, in this case). If 
you needed 50/50, this link would only be get you somewhere around 140Mbps each 
way.

Signal is just a little too low to get 8X (256qam) on this case, but I probably 
could if I changed them to the new HD version, since they can get a little 
higher power at any given modulation, and they can achieve higher modulations 
at lower signal levels... it might even be able to do 1024qam (it probably 
could with 3' dishes anyway). going to a 50mhz channel would also add some 20% 
capacity (50mhz is the max for the standard af-5x, but the hd can go up to 
100mhz if you have lots of spectrum to burn).

An entire link with 2' dishes should come to router around $1000. I haven't 
priced the 3' dishes recently, but they are quite a bit pricier.


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 11:21 AM,  wrote:

  Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??

  From: Mathew Howard 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

  Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use 
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only difference 
between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).







  On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
or
AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

?

Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list

[chuck]

Problems.  It is on AWS.  Who knows.  

Worked great for almost 5 years.  

But since it is just maintenance by a committee of volunteers, I figured it 
best to just move it over to folks that specialize in running lists for others. 
 

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list

Amazon problems?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 1:36 PM,  wrote:

  I think we will be able to do this without any re-subscribing.  
  -Original Message- From: Christopher Tyler Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 
2018 11:23 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list 

  Are you moving the accounts or will we need to subscribe again?

  -- 
  Christopher Tyler MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE Total Highspeed Internet Services 
417.851.1107

  - Original Message -
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:00:10 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] changes to this list

  Once it is up and running, to post will most likely be a...@af.afmug.com

  They need a sub domain.

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[chuck]

 wrote:

Last topic I see on this was from 2014. So maybe it’s time to review and ask 
again? What are you guys using for fiber mapping, now in 2018?

 

In 2014 I read:

Craig was doing google earth and excel sheets.

Chuck Hogg was using Manifold (kinda), and some Google Maps Engine.

Mike H was using ArcMap for his clients.

A few other google sheets. 

 

What’s changed, what’s new, what’re you using today? Same as before?  Something 
different? Why?

 

-c

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list

[chuck]

I think we will be able to do this without any re-subscribing.  

-Original Message- 
From: Christopher Tyler 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 11:23 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] changes to this list 


Are you moving the accounts or will we need to subscribe again?

--
Christopher Tyler 
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE 
Total Highspeed Internet Services 
417.851.1107


- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 12:00:10 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] changes to this list

Once it is up and running, to post will most likely be a...@af.afmug.com

They need a sub domain.

[AFMUG] changes to this list

[chuck]

Once it is up and running, to post will most likely be a...@af.afmug.com

They need a sub domain.  

Re: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

[chuck]

First, let me say that I am so sorry that your employee caused so much grief 
for all involved.
I am rabid about seat belt use.  I lost a son, who was wearing a seatbelt in a 
wreck.  My wife was driving.  She was saved by her seat belt so I am thankful 
for that.  I was an EMT for a while and have seen people walk away from 
horrific accidents because they simply buckled up.  Same car dead people came 
out of the windshield.

There is only so much you can do.  If the other employee did not have the 
authority to fire the guy, he did everything he could do.  He shouldn’t beat 
himself up because someone else chose to be stupid.  

Seconds, astounding about the Rohn anchor point strength.  Have you told Rohn.

I got an OSHA citation once.  I went in with the whole company, set through a 
session where they chewed my ass for about an hour.  Then another hour of 
training, then we were on probation for a while with periodic visits.  They 
reduced my $25K find to $2500.

The main take-away from the experience is that you need to show a “ compliant 
attitude”.  Fall all over yourself showing them that you need to learn how to 
do things better and you need their help to learn better methods etc.  Kiss 
their ass, treat them as gods, and in the process you may actually learn 
valuable things.  But that whole showing a “broken heart and contrite spirit” 
thing is key to getting the fine reduced.  

Just lay on the floor and say “beat me master, I have sinned, please show me a 
better way” type of thing.  

From: David Sovereen 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Rohn 25

Hi All,

A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a Rohn 
25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall protection 
gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall protection gear 
was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his harness on, but 
he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He slipped, fell 
approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour later at the 
hospital.

We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them. 







I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He tells 
me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 5,000 lbs 
and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  He says 
all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just trying to 
come up with reasons to fine us.

When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person to 
identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, were.  
When my employees go through the training, they become competent in determining 
where suitable anchor points are, do they not?

If an employee is given instruction on the use of fall protection gear, told to 
always use it, and exercises bad judgement and refuses to use it, am I 
responsible?  One of my employees was there and told him to put his harness on 
and he refused.  Consequently, that employee has gone through a lot of turmoil 
putting himself through “what if” scenarios.

Just looking for thoughts on this.  Fight it, and if so what approach?  Pay it 
and make it go away?  Something else?

Thanks,

David Sovereen
 
Mercury Network Corporation
2719 Ashman Street, Midland, MI 48640
989.837.3790 x151 office | 888.866.4638 toll free |  989.837.3780 fax
 
Telephone |  Internet  |  Security Alarm Monitoring

david.sover...@mercury.net
www.mercury.net










Hi All,

A little background: We had an employee die late last year.  He climbed a Rohn 
25 tower at a residential customer location and did not use his fall protection 
gear.  He went through safe climb training at CITCA, his fall protection gear 
was in his truck, and a co-worker with him told him to put his harness on, but 
he exercised poor judgement and climbed without it anyway.  He slipped, fell 
approximately 30 feet, and was pronounced dead about an hour later at the 
hospital.

We received two OSHA Citations today.  I’ve attached them.



I spoke with the OSHA representative handling our matter on Friday.  He tells 
me that Rohn 25s have not been tested by the manufacturer to support 5,000 lbs 
and therefore are not a suitable anchor point for securing oneself.  He says 
all work on Rohn 25s must be done from a lift.  I think they are just trying to 
come up with reasons to fine us.

When I went through safe tower climbing, *I* became the competent person to 
identify where suitable anchor points, using the 5,000 lb estimation, were.  
When my employees go through the training, they become competent in determining 
where suitable anchor points are, do they 

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Is the 65 Mbps a limitation of the link or system settings or ??

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:16 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

Here's an example of a 25km AF-5x link using 2' dishes. I'd probably use 
AF-5xHD radios these days, and I'd use the airFiber dishes (the only difference 
between them and the RocketDish LW is that they're slant vs H/V).







On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
  or
  AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

  ?

  Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[chuck]

Excellent, thanks for the advice.  
What does a whole system cost?

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

First, I'd recommend the new AF5XHD which is a huge upgrade over the AF5x. 

You can then use that radio with either the 30db or 34db dish you listed. At 15 
miles, I would recommend the 34db dish as that is quite the long haul. If the 
customer is paying any decent amount of money, you'll recoup your costs quickly.

With 34db dishes and clean 20mhz spectrum, you can easily move about 240 Mbps 
aggregate through the link with 10x modulation and you can decide duty cycle 
like 50/50 for 120 Mbps each way or 75/25, etc.

On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 12:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
  or
  AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

  ?

  Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  




-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] List

[chuck]

I am in the process of moving it.  AWS or whatever is running on the AWS is 
getting progressively more and more flakey.  So, I have put it off long enough. 
 Domain will move to GoDaddy and the list will move to mailmanhost.com
Will probably take a few days.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2018 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] List

Is this list just done?  Seems to be off as much as on anymore.  Unless 
everyone is just outside as opposed to in front of a computer like me.

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[chuck]

I like the systems that allow you to click on a fiber and have it open a detail 
report of what the strands are being used for.  Same with with splice cases, 
some systems can show what is spliced to what.  

From: Dennis Burgess 
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 11:07 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

You can use TowerCoverage.com to map your fiber as well as use our “End User 
Submission” system to match potential users to the fiber mapping.  

 

 

 

Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com 

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of Paul Stewart
Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 6:31 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

We utilize Patch Manager - https://patchmanager.com

 

It started as a great way to DCIM – data center racks across many locations etc 
but with their GIS mapping add-on and other features we’re looking to utilize 
it for fiber builds and should work pretty nicely …. 

 

Paul

 

 

From: Af  on behalf of Brian Webster 

Reply-To: 
Date: Friday, June 1, 2018 at 10:46 PM
To: 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

Yes QGIS is a great program and since it is open source you will find a lot of 
support and how to articles. Not as simple as Google Earth Pro but it has a lot 
more power. A real professional GIS platform. The key to its flexibility are 
the plugins you can download. Plan on spending some time reading through each 
of those descriptions to see if there are features you want. It certainly has a 
learning curve as does any mapping program. On the higher level you can 
actually connect to most database platforms so if you plan on managing your 
plant with more than spreadsheets you can keep both the mapping and database 
tied together as one.

 

Thank You,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

www.Broadband-Mapping.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 5:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

 

QGIS is very useful and open source (as in free).   

 

Nothing specific for fiber mapping in it but it could pretty easily be used for 
it if I was ambitious enough to put all the info in.

 

Mark





On Jun 1, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

 

For basic needs, the advantage of doing mapping using Google Earth Pro is that 
most "serious" GIS packages support import and export to/from the XML format 
Google Earth uses. A line on the map on Google Earth or a multi-segmented line 
is just a collection of vector placemarks in a XML file with lat/long 
coordinates, with metadata describing the thickness of the line, the color of 
the line, how many intermediate points are on the line, and so forth. 

 

The best organizational advice I can give is to use folders and subfolders in 
Google Earth Pro appropriately to sort projects, so that you don't end up with 
a single folder that contains 500 unnamed lines. Might look fine when viewed on 
a map but can become an organization nightmare.

 

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 1:34 PM, Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

Last topic I see on this was from 2014. So maybe it’s time to review and ask 
again? What are you guys using for fiber mapping, now in 2018?

 

In 2014 I read:

Craig was doing google earth and excel sheets.

Chuck Hogg was using Manifold (kinda), and some Google Maps Engine.

Mike H was using ArcMap for his clients.

A few other google sheets. 

 

What’s changed, what’s new, what’re you using today? Same as before?  Something 
different? Why?





-c




 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[chuck]

Cost?
Looks like the list may have come back again...

From: Leroy Koglin 
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2018 10:58 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

We started using VETROFiberMap about 6 months ago. Very happy with them.

http://vetrofibermap.com/





On 6/1/2018 4:34 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:

  Last topic I see on this was from 2014. So maybe it’s time to review and ask 
again? What are you guys using for fiber mapping, now in 2018? 

  In 2014 I read:
  Craig was doing google earth and excel sheets.
  Chuck Hogg was using Manifold (kinda), and some Google Maps Engine.
  Mike H was using ArcMap for his clients.
  A few other google sheets. 


  What’s changed, what’s new, what’re you using today? Same as before?  
Something different? Why?


  -c

[AFMUG] Zumacom

[Chuck McCown]

Anyone know Zumacom in Cortez Colorado?

[AFMUG] 25 kM unlicensed

[Chuck McCown]

Which is better, Rocket 5AC + RocketDish LW
or
AF5X + AF-5G34-S45

?

Or some other brand.  Hauling out PTP to a customer.  Like to keep the 
bandwidth up but they are not currently asking for more than 100 Mbps.  

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[Chuck McCown]

Price?

From: Mitch Koep 
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2018 6:21 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

https://www.ospinsight.com/desktop-overview




On 6/1/2018 4:12 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

  QGIS is very useful and open source (as in free).

  Nothing specific for fiber mapping in it but it could pretty easily be used 
for it if I was ambitious enough to put all the info in.

  Mark



On Jun 1, 2018, at 5:06 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

For basic needs, the advantage of doing mapping using Google Earth Pro is 
that most "serious" GIS packages support import and export to/from the XML 
format Google Earth uses. A line on the map on Google Earth or a 
multi-segmented line is just a collection of vector placemarks in a XML file 
with lat/long coordinates, with metadata describing the thickness of the line, 
the color of the line, how many intermediate points are on the line, and so 
forth.  

The best organizational advice I can give is to use folders and subfolders 
in Google Earth Pro appropriately to sort projects, so that you don't end up 
with a single folder that contains 500 unnamed lines. Might look fine when 
viewed on a map but can become an organization nightmare.

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 1:34 PM, Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

  Last topic I see on this was from 2014. So maybe it’s time to review and 
ask again? What are you guys using for fiber mapping, now in 2018? 

  In 2014 I read:
  Craig was doing google earth and excel sheets.
  Chuck Hogg was using Manifold (kinda), and some Google Maps Engine.
  Mike H was using ArcMap for his clients.
  A few other google sheets. 


  What’s changed, what’s new, what’re you using today? Same as before?  
Something different? Why?


  -c

[AFMUG] OT TV Show

[Chuck McCown]

American Chopper is back.  Mondays.  Watched the first two episodes tonight.  
Philo.  $16/month

Re: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

[chuck]

I have given up on Mapcom M4.
AutoCad for staking sheets and if you want to combine it with a database it can 
do much more.
I prefer to do everything in Google Earth, but would like to add the database 
functions to it.  

The State of Utah rolled their own and it is really nice.  Google Earth based.  

From: Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Friday, June 1, 2018 2:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber Mapping - 2018

Last topic I see on this was from 2014. So maybe it’s time to review and ask 
again? What are you guys using for fiber mapping, now in 2018? 

In 2014 I read:
Craig was doing google earth and excel sheets.
Chuck Hogg was using Manifold (kinda), and some Google Maps Engine.
Mike H was using ArcMap for his clients.
A few other google sheets. 


What’s changed, what’s new, what’re you using today? Same as before?  Something 
different? Why?


-c

Re: [AFMUG] RV park network design

[chuck]

No poop.  I would give each pad a sewer connection.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 1:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV park network design

Lake Shelbyville is run by the corpse of engineers, managed by park services, 
really nice joint if you're in Illinois. Unlike private run ones, the poop is 
off the bathroom walls by noon.  
You like cleaning poop chuck? Cause that's also how you get to clean poop.

On Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:57 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

  Yeah. We like to "boondock" on BLM or national forrest. A lot of those 
  are free (zero facilities, but the privacy is at maximum). Forrest 
  service campgrounds are generally well maintained and very competitive 
  price-wise.


  bp
  

  On 5/31/2018 8:53 AM, Larry Smith wrote:
  > We have a 32 foot Jayco travel trailer that we pull
  > all over the place (mostly central and west Tennessee,
  > some Kentucky, Missouri, Arkansas).
  >
  > Prices where we have stayed range from $5 with nothing
  > but a place to park to $41.50 with pad, water, sewage, electric.
  >
  > There are much more expensive ones, but we don't stay there
  >

Re: [AFMUG] FCC Forfeiture $590, 380 for unauthorized Ultrasonic Humidifier

[chuck]

I didn’t read the complaint very carefully.  Is that what it was?  I presumed 
it was an unintentional radiator issue, not wifi.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 12:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] FCC Forfeiture $590,380 for unauthorized Ultrasonic 
Humidifier

It is pretty weird they would choose a noncompliant 2.4/5 GHz wifi module for 
their products, when plenty of fully compliant packaged modules are available 
from manufacturers in China. They were either ignorant, stupid, or trying to 
save 18 cents per manufactured unit. 




On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Tim Hardy  wrote:

  Well, it was little more than just the humidifier but the fines ramp up if 
you continue to violate the rules even after you have been made aware of the 
violation.  Think this one is an F you, strong message to follow! 

  FCC-18-67A1.pdf

Re: [AFMUG] FCC Forfeiture $590, 380 for unauthorized Ultrasonic Humidifier

[chuck]

I am curious, where is the lower frequency limit for part 15?  Or do all 
electronics sold in the retail space need to be tested for emi etc?

From: Tim Hardy 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 11:20 AM
To:  
Subject: [AFMUG] FCC Forfeiture $590,380 for unauthorized Ultrasonic Humidifier

Well, it was little more than just the humidifier but the fines ramp up if you 
continue to violate the rules even after you have been made aware of the 
violation.  Think this one is an F you, strong message to follow! 

FCC-18-67A1.pdf

Re: [AFMUG] RV park network design

[chuck]

What does a traveler expect to pay to park in one of these places?  I have 
about 10 acres next to I-80 with water, power and sewer already installed.  I 
could lay down some gravel and put up a sign.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 9:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV park network design

industrial vending machine selling routers.  
Im trying to get the one we are doing to finger conduit to each site post for 
future use, whether fiber or copper

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:

  You'd be surprised. A lot of them travel with their own cable modems and wifi 
routers. But you could always rent them one, or set up each ONT with a small 
wifi router already and give them a choice.

  On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:05 AM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

Probably zero. 


On Thursday, May 31, 2018,  wrote:

  How many RV travelers are set up for ethernet vs WiFi?

  From: Jason McKemie 
  Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 6:42 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV park network design

  I'd do fiber as well, seems like that many long-run cat5/6 connections 
could be problematic.

  On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, Cameron Crum  wrote:

Why run ethernet? This seems ideal for fiber. Put a small box for the 
ONT on the same pole as the electrical hookup with about 20 ft of ethernet 
cable so they can drag it through a window and call it a day. Rent them a cheap 
router if they want wifi or mount a small loco ac or something running as a low 
powered AP and alternate frequencies every 3 or 4 spaces.  




On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:57 PM, Colin Stanners  
wrote:

  Be careful of selling service over Wi-FI... customers buy "signal 
boosters" that run their own DHCP server, or they see a very strong signal to 
their booster and complain that their service sucks (don't understand that the 
signal from the booster to your network is low). And there's interference from 
mobile hotspots etc


  I would do like Adam says, run ethernet lines everywhere with 
outdoor-grade ethernet connection boxes (make sure to have a surge protector on 
each line as it returns to your switch). You can try offering some service over 
wifi but tell customers that if they want reliable speeds they need to hardwire.


  On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 1:07 PM, castarritt  
wrote:

We were approached by a current subscriber who is building an RV 
park with around ~100 pads, and he wants us to offer service to his tenants.  
This isn't the typical situation where we would sell service to the RV park, 
and they handle distributing it to their customers.  He wants to avoid 
providing wi-fi himself, and will instead let us charge every client that wants 
service separately.  Also, this isn't a campground; his shortest lease term 
will be monthly.

While the park is under construction, he is willing to let us lay 
conduit, so we could provide wired service to each pad if we wanted to.  
Alternatively, we could just setup a bunch of wi-fi APs.  One potential 
complication is that we have a fairly busy cluster of 5g PMP450s a couple 
hundred yards from this RV park, so while wired service could be more reliable 
for the park tenants, the potential for 100 customer wi-fi routers we can't 
control operating within sight of our PMP450 POP sounds like the stuff of 
nightmares.

We are leaning more towards a wi-fi option due to better control 
over spectrum, as well as avoiding maintenance of 100 outdoor ethernet ports 
that the customers would be plugging into, but we are open to suggestions. 

Also, assuming wi-fi is the correct answer, does anyone have any 
equipment recommendations?  The park is about 400' by 900'.  I was looking at 
either doing a whole bunch of low end APs, or maybe ~8 sectors.  We haven't 
used any of the Cambium wi-fi gear yet, but the cnPilot E501S looks interesting.



Thank you,

Chris Starritt
Western Broadband
supp...@ecpi.com
512-257-1077

Re: [AFMUG] RV park network design

[chuck]

How many RV travelers are set up for ethernet vs WiFi?

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 6:42 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV park network design

I'd do fiber as well, seems like that many long-run cat5/6 connections could be 
problematic.

On Wednesday, May 30, 2018, Cameron Crum  wrote:

  Why run ethernet? This seems ideal for fiber. Put a small box for the ONT on 
the same pole as the electrical hookup with about 20 ft of ethernet cable so 
they can drag it through a window and call it a day. Rent them a cheap router 
if they want wifi or mount a small loco ac or something running as a low 
powered AP and alternate frequencies every 3 or 4 spaces.  




  On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 2:57 PM, Colin Stanners  wrote:

Be careful of selling service over Wi-FI... customers buy "signal boosters" 
that run their own DHCP server, or they see a very strong signal to their 
booster and complain that their service sucks (don't understand that the signal 
from the booster to your network is low). And there's interference from mobile 
hotspots etc


I would do like Adam says, run ethernet lines everywhere with outdoor-grade 
ethernet connection boxes (make sure to have a surge protector on each line as 
it returns to your switch). You can try offering some service over wifi but 
tell customers that if they want reliable speeds they need to hardwire.


On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 1:07 PM, castarritt  wrote:

  We were approached by a current subscriber who is building an RV park 
with around ~100 pads, and he wants us to offer service to his tenants.  This 
isn't the typical situation where we would sell service to the RV park, and 
they handle distributing it to their customers.  He wants to avoid providing 
wi-fi himself, and will instead let us charge every client that wants service 
separately.  Also, this isn't a campground; his shortest lease term will be 
monthly.

  While the park is under construction, he is willing to let us lay 
conduit, so we could provide wired service to each pad if we wanted to.  
Alternatively, we could just setup a bunch of wi-fi APs.  One potential 
complication is that we have a fairly busy cluster of 5g PMP450s a couple 
hundred yards from this RV park, so while wired service could be more reliable 
for the park tenants, the potential for 100 customer wi-fi routers we can't 
control operating within sight of our PMP450 POP sounds like the stuff of 
nightmares.

  We are leaning more towards a wi-fi option due to better control over 
spectrum, as well as avoiding maintenance of 100 outdoor ethernet ports that 
the customers would be plugging into, but we are open to suggestions. 

  Also, assuming wi-fi is the correct answer, does anyone have any 
equipment recommendations?  The park is about 400' by 900'.  I was looking at 
either doing a whole bunch of low end APs, or maybe ~8 sectors.  We haven't 
used any of the Cambium wi-fi gear yet, but the cnPilot E501S looks interesting.



  Thank you,

  Chris Starritt
  Western Broadband
  supp...@ecpi.com
  512-257-1077

Re: [AFMUG] tower assembly in Northern WI

[chuck]

I know what you mean.  I had a flight instructor think I was an idiot during 
autorotation practice in a helicopter.  From my point of view I took the rotor 
speed right up to the red line.  But since he was in the left seat parallax 
error made it look like I was overspeeding the rotor and he would violently 
punch the cyclic forward each time.  

Many years ago and I still wake up mad about it.  I kinda hope I run into him 
in a Starbucks someday, him taking orders behind the counter...

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 4:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] tower assembly in Northern WI

Yeah, it happened 25 years ago and it still pisses off.


On Wed, May 30, 2018, 4:10 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

  Somebody oughtta go to prison for a thing like that... although union hall 
catching fire does sound like a pretty good compromise...


  On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 4:07 PM,  wrote:

I think that would be a good case for RICO.  Perhaps get some kind of 
prosecutor to attempt to raise hell with the union.  
Funny, union hall might catch fire too...

From: Robert 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 1:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] tower assembly in Northern WI

Darn, ( using polite word ) I have friends that would stack again and sit 
by, armed, just looking for the opportunity to "discuss"...   That pissed off 
about private property trespassing out here in NV...


On 5/30/18 12:52 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

  I think it was Wisconsin in winter where we stacked a 485 foot tower. 
Next day we came to the site to finish cleanup and it had been cut down. They 
were kind enough to leave a sign on the fence as to which union local we should 
contact if we wanted to build it again. Thugs. The moral of the story, Hire at 
least one union guy in a union state. 

  On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 1:31 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

I would recommend joining the largest Facebook tower industry specific 
groups (search groups for tower climbing, tower, etc). There's about four of 
them that are really active, and between the groups probably 30,000 members in 
total. Put out a message that you're looking for a contractor and see what you 
get back. 


On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 7:06 AM, Brandon Yuchasz 
 wrote:

  I am looking for someone to stack two Rohn 65 towers in Northern WI. 
Towers are 140’ and the site will be completely prepped ahead of time. Concrete 
work will all be done and the towers will be on site waiting. We have talked to 
one company from Lower WI so far but they are doing a lot of large cellular 
constructions this summer and priced these two in a similar range. I took the 
quotes as they didn’t want to be doing these small of jobs.  

  If anyone knows of someone of if anyone on the list is interested in 
this they can hit me off list for more details. If you are out of the area and 
willing to travel up give me a shout as well might be able to make it work. 



  Thanks,

  Brandon

Re: [AFMUG] tower assembly in Northern WI

[chuck]

FBI might.  Racketeering against interstate commerce.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 2:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] tower assembly in Northern WI

Whom would you sue?  No actual proof who did it. The sheriff in that heavily 
Union area wasn't hot on even coming out, much less prosecuting.


On Wed, May 30, 2018, 3:17 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  I should think that would be actionable.
  I've never sued anybody, but I think I would over that.




  On 5/30/2018 3:57 PM, Robert wrote:

Darn, ( using polite word ) I have friends that would stack again and sit 
by, armed, just looking for the opportunity to "discuss"...   That pissed off 
about private property trespassing out here in NV...


On 5/30/18 12:52 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

  I think it was Wisconsin in winter where we stacked a 485 foot tower. 
Next day we came to the site to finish cleanup and it had been cut down. They 
were kind enough to leave a sign on the fence as to which union local we should 
contact if we wanted to build it again. Thugs. The moral of the story, Hire at 
least one union guy in a union state. 


  On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 1:31 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

I would recommend joining the largest Facebook tower industry specific 
groups (search groups for tower climbing, tower, etc). There's about four of 
them that are really active, and between the groups probably 30,000 members in 
total. Put out a message that you're looking for a contractor and see what you 
get back. 


On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 7:06 AM, Brandon Yuchasz 
 wrote:

  I am looking for someone to stack two Rohn 65 towers in Northern WI. 
Towers are 140’ and the site will be completely prepped ahead of time. Concrete 
work will all be done and the towers will be on site waiting. We have talked to 
one company from Lower WI so far but they are doing a lot of large cellular 
constructions this summer and priced these two in a similar range. I took the 
quotes as they didn’t want to be doing these small of jobs.  

  If anyone knows of someone of if anyone on the list is interested in 
this they can hit me off list for more details. If you are out of the area and 
willing to travel up give me a shout as well might be able to make it work. 



  Thanks,

  Brandon

Re: [AFMUG] tower assembly in Northern WI

[chuck]

I think that would be a good case for RICO.  Perhaps get some kind of 
prosecutor to attempt to raise hell with the union.  
Funny, union hall might catch fire too...

From: Robert 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 1:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] tower assembly in Northern WI

Darn, ( using polite word ) I have friends that would stack again and sit by, 
armed, just looking for the opportunity to "discuss"...   That pissed off about 
private property trespassing out here in NV...


On 5/30/18 12:52 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

  I think it was Wisconsin in winter where we stacked a 485 foot tower. Next 
day we came to the site to finish cleanup and it had been cut down. They were 
kind enough to leave a sign on the fence as to which union local we should 
contact if we wanted to build it again. Thugs. The moral of the story, Hire at 
least one union guy in a union state. 

  On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 1:31 PM Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

I would recommend joining the largest Facebook tower industry specific 
groups (search groups for tower climbing, tower, etc). There's about four of 
them that are really active, and between the groups probably 30,000 members in 
total. Put out a message that you're looking for a contractor and see what you 
get back. 


On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 7:06 AM, Brandon Yuchasz  
wrote:

  I am looking for someone to stack two Rohn 65 towers in Northern WI. 
Towers are 140’ and the site will be completely prepped ahead of time. Concrete 
work will all be done and the towers will be on site waiting. We have talked to 
one company from Lower WI so far but they are doing a lot of large cellular 
constructions this summer and priced these two in a similar range. I took the 
quotes as they didn’t want to be doing these small of jobs.  

  If anyone knows of someone of if anyone on the list is interested in this 
they can hit me off list for more details. If you are out of the area and 
willing to travel up give me a shout as well might be able to make it work. 



  Thanks,

  Brandon

Re: [AFMUG] RV park network design

[chuck]

lynksees router in a rubbermaid container and lots of rtv.  Zip tie to power 
pole.

From: Dennis Burgess 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 1:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV park network design

We do this all of the time, design, sell you hardware, help you with 
configuration, etc, everything.  Give us a call  314-735-0270… 

 

Dennis

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of castarritt
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] RV park network design

 

We were approached by a current subscriber who is building an RV park with 
around ~100 pads, and he wants us to offer service to his tenants.  This isn't 
the typical situation where we would sell service to the RV park, and they 
handle distributing it to their customers.  He wants to avoid providing wi-fi 
himself, and will instead let us charge every client that wants service 
separately.  Also, this isn't a campground; his shortest lease term will be 
monthly.

While the park is under construction, he is willing to let us lay conduit, so 
we could provide wired service to each pad if we wanted to.  Alternatively, we 
could just setup a bunch of wi-fi APs.  One potential complication is that we 
have a fairly busy cluster of 5g PMP450s a couple hundred yards from this RV 
park, so while wired service could be more reliable for the park tenants, the 
potential for 100 customer wi-fi routers we can't control operating within 
sight of our PMP450 POP sounds like the stuff of nightmares.

We are leaning more towards a wi-fi option due to better control over spectrum, 
as well as avoiding maintenance of 100 outdoor ethernet ports that the 
customers would be plugging into, but we are open to suggestions.

 

Also, assuming wi-fi is the correct answer, does anyone have any equipment 
recommendations?  The park is about 400' by 900'.  I was looking at either 
doing a whole bunch of low end APs, or maybe ~8 sectors.  We haven't used any 
of the Cambium wi-fi gear yet, but the cnPilot E501S looks interesting.

 

Thank you,

 

Chris Starritt

Western Broadband

supp...@ecpi.com

512-257-1077

Re: [AFMUG] Power over LMR400

[chuck]

It is rated for 16 kW but that may be dielectric breakdown voltage limitation.  
But we know it will at least do that.
So sqrt(16k/50)=17.88 amps

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 12:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Power over LMR400

How many AMPs can I safely push over LMR-400 at 48V?  Around 175'.  I would 
like to power a Netonix IDC switch off of my DC plant using 10-15A but I'm not 
sure what LMR is rated for.

[AFMUG] test

[chuck]

Sent 12:27 MDT

Re: [AFMUG] Bad surge card symptoms between MT and Rocket

[chuck]

Surge protectors get wounded when they are doing their jobs.  They can only 
take so many hits before they start causing trouble.  No good way to test them. 
 

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 12:27 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Bad surge card symptoms between MT and Rocket

Ultimately I'm wondering if a line replacement is pointless or a good idea. 

We had a Rocket that just all of a sudden would negotiate at 10 meg (instead of 
100).  It passed a few kbps but nothing really.  Should be passing 50+ Meg.

I go to the site and try 100 full static on both sides.  No link.

Replaced card and POE and it started working.

Chugging fine now but I wasn't sure what the collective does.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] N-connector Patch

[chuck]

Looks like the list might be back.  They rebooted the VM that it was on.  

From: Jason Wilson 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] N-connector Patch

Make your own. 

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 5:47 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists  wrote:

  Agreed, but the way their warehouse fees work it’s best to order them in 
quantity or with other gear.


  Jeff Broadwick 
  CTIconnect

  312-205-2519 Office
  574-220-7826 Cell
  jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

  On May 25, 2018, at 7:04 PM, Colin Stanners  wrote:


Kp performance

On May 25, 2018 4:50 PM, "Matt"  wrote:

  What is everyone using for a source of N-connector patch cables?  18
  inch to 24 inch range for connecting say a Cambium PTP450 to dish etc.

[AFMUG] OT Movie Solo

[Chuck McCown]

I liked it.  Critics are panning it but I thought it was as fun as most Star 
Wars movies.  

Somebody should have gotten shot under the table though.

Re: [AFMUG] Multiple cable wall pass-through

[Chuck McCown]

Plasma or acetylene. 

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 9:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Multiple cable wall pass-through

you want six cables in one hole or 6 holes? 1/2 inch glands is what i use on 
single cables, available at any hardware store, they have like 3/4" thread, so 
the lock nut would affix. Theyre cheaper in bulk than a hardware store, like 6 
for 30 bucks at hardware store or 50 for 100 bucks in bulk online

On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

  A 1" conduit bulkhead connector will do the trick. Attach a short length of 
conduit on the outside with a sweep. 


  If the nipple on the bulkhead connector is not long enough, you can get 
longer nipples at any hardware store (1" though 3 or 4 inches).


bp


On 5/25/2018 1:43 PM, Mike Davis wrote:

Any suggestions on where to get a cable wall pass-through for a 1/2" steel 
plate? I am out of ideas of where to try. I need to get 6 cat cables from the 
inside of a water tower to the outside at the top of the tower.

-- 
Mike Davis
General Manager
Office: 260-349-1799
Email: mikeda...@allianceinternet.net

Alliance Internet Communications | www.allianceinternet.net
PO Box 1100 | 1220 South Wayne Street | Angola, IN | 46703 | 260-349-1799

Re: [AFMUG] cambium POE brick

[Chuck McCown]

always use protection... yeah, good advice...

From: Dave 
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 9:37 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] cambium POE brick

Bump,
the answer is no it does not and be sure to use additional surge protection 
Thank you cambium for the answer :)



On 05/25/2018 08:30 AM, Dave wrote:

  I am curious about the POE brick for the epmp units to see if they have some 
layer of surge protection in them.
  Does anyone know if the PN:N000900L001B POE injector has this?



  -- 



-- 

Re: [AFMUG] AF11x to Remec/APEX etc adapters

[chuck]

Noted.

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 4:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF11x to Remec/APEX etc adapters

Interested

-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 5/23/2018 2:55:36 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] AF11x to Remec/APEX etc adapters

  If you have asked me for this product please let me know.  We are getting 
some beta quantities going now and I never kept really good track of those that 
want to be on the list.  So a list now exists and there is even a person 
managing the list that will expedite fulfillment.  

  Too many irons in the fire

[AFMUG] AF11x to Remec/APEX etc adapters

[chuck]

If you have asked me for this product please let me know.  We are getting some 
beta quantities going now and I never kept really good track of those that want 
to be on the list.  So a list now exists and there is even a person managing 
the list that will expedite fulfillment.  

Too many irons in the fire

Re: [AFMUG] netonix guy

[chuck]

tnx

From: Josh Baird 
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 9:06 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] netonix guy

His name is Chris Sisler - ch...@netonix.com.

On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 10:36 AM,  wrote:

  Anyone have contact for the Netonix owner/developer guy?  I probably do have 
his email but I cannot remember his name.  

[AFMUG] netonix guy

[chuck]

Anyone have contact for the Netonix owner/developer guy?  I probably do have 
his email but I cannot remember his name.  

Re: [AFMUG] PVU-SLC

[Chuck McCown]

CAT IIIC even does automatic braking too.  So you end up stopped on the 
centerline.  Totally hands off.  Almost as good as a Tesla.  

From: Ron M. 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 9:16 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PVU-SLC

Correct, we were in a CR7, not Cat IIIc capable. I think those things are only 
rated to Cat II.


On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  In the case of SLC, you cannot blame the airport or the weather.  The airport 
was upgraded for the Olympics to CAT-IIIC which means you can land as long as 
you have good enough visibility to taxi.  It is full auto land capable.  But 
the aircraft and crew must also be capable and not all are.  

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gthcuZV8agI

  From: Ron M. 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 9:05 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PVU-SLC

  Actually, I almost had one of those a couple months ago, ceilings and fog in 
SLC just barely lifted above minimums enough to let us get in. Otherwise it 
would have been a DEN-PVU-SLC trip.


  On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

That is one long flight!

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 9:10 PM
To: af 
Subject: [AFMUG] PVU-SLC

Never been on a flight with this segment before. .. 

Re: [AFMUG] PVU-SLC

[Chuck McCown]

In the case of SLC, you cannot blame the airport or the weather.  The airport 
was upgraded for the Olympics to CAT-IIIC which means you can land as long as 
you have good enough visibility to taxi.  It is full auto land capable.  But 
the aircraft and crew must also be capable and not all are.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gthcuZV8agI

From: Ron M. 
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PVU-SLC

Actually, I almost had one of those a couple months ago, ceilings and fog in 
SLC just barely lifted above minimums enough to let us get in. Otherwise it 
would have been a DEN-PVU-SLC trip.


On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 8:34 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  That is one long flight!

  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 9:10 PM
  To: af 
  Subject: [AFMUG] PVU-SLC

  Never been on a flight with this segment before. .. 

Re: [AFMUG] PVU-SLC

[Chuck McCown]

That is one long flight!

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 9:10 PM
To: af 
Subject: [AFMUG] PVU-SLC

Never been on a flight with this segment before. .. 

Re: [AFMUG] 8 mile link

[Chuck McCown]

Maybe leapfrog with some back to back rockets or picos or whatever is cheap at 
the treeline.  Solar powered.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 12:49 PM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 8 mile link

Yeah... but that only works if you have property access. 


On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 1:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  700’ of cable and use as high capacity radios as you want.  It really is not 
that far if you have property access.  

  From: Eric Kuhnke 
  Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 11:46 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 8 mile link

  Probably worth getting a spectrum analyzer that has 900 in its range, and a 
900 yagi, before spending the $2700+ on a 450i 900 AP and antenna. 

  For the original poster's problem I would try, if possible, moving up to 3' 
dishes on both ends, and ac based radios. And using a 10 MHz channel. Might 
have a better chance of getting a signal like -61 (not -71) and through "some" 
trees. 

  On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:

The problem with 900mhz, is that you never know if it's actually going to 
work in any given area until you try it.  If there are 900mhz smart meters 
around, don't even bother... but even if there aren't, 900mhz can be pretty 
unpredictable in my experience. If you do go 900mhz, PTP450 is definitely the 
best option.


On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 11:59 AM, Erich Kaiser 
<er...@northcentraltower.com> wrote:

  900 PTP 450 with KP Performance Antennas, I run mine 3 miles completely 
NLOS on 7 MHZ and it runs fine to my house.  During heavy rain and through 
heavy foliage (Currently) this is what I am getting 










  On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:

Yeah, The 450i 900 system would definately do the trick 
How much bandwidth do you need?
The 900 on a 10Mhz channel we see around 35Mbs in a noisy environment 
on 8x/4xmimoB rate.
If your doing ptp with it then open it up to 20Mhz wide and bang on.
 


On 05/21/2018 10:49 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

  Ok. I'll give those a try and see what happens. Thanks.

  Travis



  On 5/21/2018 9:37 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

You could very likely get a bit more speed out of that by going to 
the new AC radios... my guess is that the airFibers would be even better, but I 
haven't used any of those in the 2.4ghz variety.



On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> 
wrote:

  The current signal level is -71. I have a 2ft dish on each side.

  Travis



  On 5/21/2018 9:15 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Yeah... 900mhz PTP 450 is probably the best option.

What kind of signal level do you get with the 2.4ghz radios? 
you could probably get a bit more out of it by going to airFiber 2x or Rocket 
2AC radios... and maybe a bigger dish.


On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
<jeffl...@att.net> wrote:

  900 PTP 450 from Cambium

  Jeff Broadwick
  CTIconnect
  312-205-2519 Office
  574-220-7826 Cell
  jbroadw...@cticonnect.com


  > On May 21, 2018, at 11:05 AM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> 
wrote:
  > 
  > Hi,
  > 
  > I'm looking for suggestions for an 8 mile link that will be 
shooting through a single wall of trees about 1/8 mile from one end of the 
link. Currently using 2.4ghz Ubnt radios. Works great during the winter, but 
once the trees fill back in, the link drops to about 5Mbps actual throughput. 
Would be nice to get 20Mbps.
  > 
  > Any suggestions? The trees are 80ft tall, so putting up a 
100ft tower at a residence is not really an option. The other side is on top of 
a 1000ft tall hill.
  > 
  > Travis
  > 










-- 

Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

[Chuck McCown]

208 x 30 = 6240 watts.

That is like having 4 portable electric heaters plugged in inside your rack.

Obviously they have to have HVAC capable of pumping that out of the building.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 11:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

In some older carrier hotel and IX sites it can be totally common to run out of 
power and air conditioning capacity in a suite before you run out of physical 
space. Or run into a power system bottleneck like needing a $70,000 NRC to 
upgrade new air conditioning and riser power capacity before you can add any 
more new 208V 20A or 208V 30A circuits. 

At a certain point it makes very logical operating-cost sense to consolidate a 
bunch of older 1RU servers down onto one, newer, physical much more powerful 
1RU system (such as a dual socket, 32-cores of Xeon with 128GB of RAM) running 
xen, kvm or esxi.

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:47 AM, Paul Stewart  wrote:

  We utilize a combination of blade systems and 1U/2U servers …. Wouldn’t say 
blade systems are going away.  Basically the biggest sell point for them is 
space/power (footprint).  If space/power is at a premium (ie. 3rd party data 
center) and you need to put many servers into it then it can make sense …. In 
our case this is exactly why we continue to deploy Cisco ACS blade systems in 
particular – they work well and footprint is small.



  In areas where we have abundant space/power then 1U servers are preferred 



  Paul





  From: Af  on behalf of Josh Luthman 

  Reply-To: 
  Date: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 at 4:04 PM
  To: 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice



  Servers for what?



  Blades are kind of a thing of the past, I think.  It's way easier and cheaper 
to do something like HA with ESXi.






  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373



  On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:03 PM,  wrote:

I need a pair of servers, prefer DC powered but not absolutely stuck on 
that.  Like to have nice blade server system with hot standby etc.  Been some 
time since I spec’d out servers.  



Any suggestions?

Re: [AFMUG] 8 mile link

[Chuck McCown]

700’ of cable and use as high capacity radios as you want.  It really is not 
that far if you have property access.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 11:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 8 mile link

Probably worth getting a spectrum analyzer that has 900 in its range, and a 900 
yagi, before spending the $2700+ on a 450i 900 AP and antenna. 

For the original poster's problem I would try, if possible, moving up to 3' 
dishes on both ends, and ac based radios. And using a 10 MHz channel. Might 
have a better chance of getting a signal like -61 (not -71) and through "some" 
trees. 

On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

  The problem with 900mhz, is that you never know if it's actually going to 
work in any given area until you try it.  If there are 900mhz smart meters 
around, don't even bother... but even if there aren't, 900mhz can be pretty 
unpredictable in my experience. If you do go 900mhz, PTP450 is definitely the 
best option.


  On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 11:59 AM, Erich Kaiser  
wrote:

900 PTP 450 with KP Performance Antennas, I run mine 3 miles completely 
NLOS on 7 MHZ and it runs fine to my house.  During heavy rain and through 
heavy foliage (Currently) this is what I am getting 










On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Dave  wrote:

  Yeah, The 450i 900 system would definately do the trick 
  How much bandwidth do you need?
  The 900 on a 10Mhz channel we see around 35Mbs in a noisy environment on 
8x/4xmimoB rate.
  If your doing ptp with it then open it up to 20Mhz wide and bang on.
   


  On 05/21/2018 10:49 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Ok. I'll give those a try and see what happens. Thanks.

Travis



On 5/21/2018 9:37 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  You could very likely get a bit more speed out of that by going to 
the new AC radios... my guess is that the airFibers would be even better, but I 
haven't used any of those in the 2.4ghz variety.



  On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 10:31 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

The current signal level is -71. I have a 2ft dish on each side.

Travis



On 5/21/2018 9:15 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

  Yeah... 900mhz PTP 450 is probably the best option.

  What kind of signal level do you get with the 2.4ghz radios? you 
could probably get a bit more out of it by going to airFiber 2x or Rocket 2AC 
radios... and maybe a bigger dish.


  On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
 wrote:

900 PTP 450 from Cambium

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com


> On May 21, 2018, at 11:05 AM, Travis Johnson  
wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for suggestions for an 8 mile link that will be 
shooting through a single wall of trees about 1/8 mile from one end of the 
link. Currently using 2.4ghz Ubnt radios. Works great during the winter, but 
once the trees fill back in, the link drops to about 5Mbps actual throughput. 
Would be nice to get 20Mbps.
> 
> Any suggestions? The trees are 80ft tall, so putting up a 
100ft tower at a residence is not really an option. The other side is on top of 
a 1000ft tall hill.
> 
> Travis
> 










  -- 

Re: [AFMUG] 8 mile link

[Chuck McCown]

Put down a quarter mile of fiber or CAT5 until you are on the other side of 
the trees.



-Original Message- 
From: Travis Johnson

Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] 8 mile link

Hi,

I'm looking for suggestions for an 8 mile link that will be shooting
through a single wall of trees about 1/8 mile from one end of the link.
Currently using 2.4ghz Ubnt radios. Works great during the winter, but
once the trees fill back in, the link drops to about 5Mbps actual
throughput. Would be nice to get 20Mbps.

Any suggestions? The trees are 80ft tall, so putting up a 100ft tower at
a residence is not really an option. The other side is on top of a
1000ft tall hill.

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] spectrum customer calls me to fix their DVR

[Chuck McCown]

You could have posed as a spectrum CRS and told the guy he was too stupid to 
own a DVR and hung up the phone.  Or said we don’t support DVRs, only the WISPs 
do... or  or

From: Kurt Fankhauser 
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 7:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] spectrum customer calls me to fix their DVR

I had a person call me and just start telling me how their DVR wasn't working 
on their remote view app anymore, finally figured out they had Spectrum 
internet service and not my WISP service. I told him that since spectrum is a 
competitor i Wouldn't be able to help him with that and told him if he had 
service through me that I would definitely be able to help him with that. He 
got pissed and said he's not switching and hung up the phone. SMH

Re: [AFMUG] OT f**king microsoft

[chuck]

For those parents trying to delay the onset of their kids gratuitous use of the 
F word for as long as possible, fair warning, it is probably said 15,000 times 
in this movie.  

No boobs or sex scenes though.  All my kids are in their 20s and 30s and I 
still have a difficult time watching that kind of content with them.  

Has Morena Baccarin, oh man

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 9:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT f**king microsoft

Use onedrive, less bulky, and Microsoft doesn't shut it off

On Sat, May 19, 2018, 9:53 AM Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

  It also completely trashes RDP. I had to replace the new RDP exe and DLL 
files with older versions to get my programs to work.

  On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 9:45 AM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

File Stream sucks.  Tried it.  
Backup N Sync is not going away.  But the conventional google drive will.  
You have two options, file stream or backup n sync.  Backup n sync is almost 
identical to legacy google drive.  

From: Jesse Dupont 
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 7:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT f**king microsoft

That’s going away anyway. You need to switch to Google‘s Drive File Stream 
desktop client.




From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 7:34:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT f**king microsoft 

Latest windows update turns off Google Drive Sync!  Arrgh!

Re: [AFMUG] OT f**king microsoft

[Chuck McCown]

File Stream sucks.  Tried it.  
Backup N Sync is not going away.  But the conventional google drive will.  You 
have two options, file stream or backup n sync.  Backup n sync is almost 
identical to legacy google drive.  

From: Jesse Dupont 
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2018 7:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT f**king microsoft

That’s going away anyway. You need to switch to Google‘s Drive File Stream 
desktop client.




From: Af <af-boun...@afmug.com> on behalf of Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 7:34:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT f**king microsoft 

Latest windows update turns off Google Drive Sync!  Arrgh!

[AFMUG] OT f**king microsoft

[Chuck McCown]

Latest windows update turns off Google Drive Sync!  Arrgh!

[AFMUG] OT Movie Review

[Chuck McCown]

Deadpool2

It was good.  Almost as good as the first one.  If you liked the first one you 
will like this one too.  
Pseudo cameo by Stan Lee was not obvious to me when watching.  I looked it up.  

Now I want to see it again just so I can see if I can spot it.  

Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

[chuck]

If you take the bark off so the cable eating beetles will not have a home  you 
should be OK.

From: Dave 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 10:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

So long as they dont use pine logs should be ok :)



On 05/15/2018 07:04 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Stick a piece of PVC down the chimney and use spray foam to hold it in place. 
 

  From: Jason McKemie 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:28 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

  Do the unistrut conduit clamps hold the conduit tightly enough to mount it 
vertically? I thought they were intended for horizontal runs.

  On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, Sam Lambie  wrote:

Unistrut, clamps and EMT. Done

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:46 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

  It's just a wood box covered in vinyl.

  On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

The chimney has vinyl?  I assume it's brick behind it? 

If you have to get it from the local hardware store, go there and see 
what all can work.  I'd probably look for the best tool rather than limit 
myself to that one store, though.



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

  Anyone have any advice as to what hardware I can use to attach a 6' 
section of 1.5" emt to a chimney? It's the vinyl siding covered type. I was 
thinking of just drilling it and running lags straight through, but a bracket 
of some type, possibly utilizing pipe clamps, would be preferred. I'll need to 
source it from a local hardware store. 







-- 

-- 
Sam Lambie
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com


-- 

Re: [AFMUG] AF11x

[chuck]

Unless you can’t get the license for MIMO.

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 9:15 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF11x

Yeah, we're talking about doing two radios in SISO on one antenna... that's 
going to be pretty much the same as one radio in MIMO.


On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 10:13 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:

  No. Both chains. SISO would be about half that, but still full duplex.



bp


On 5/17/2018 8:03 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

750Mbps on a single chain?


-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Prince" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 5/17/2018 11:00:47 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF11x

  I don't know about that. A single AF11X can do close to 750 Mbps full 
dux. Two of them with different frequencies would be in the neighborhood of 1.5 
Gbps. Not too shabby for around $4500 of hardware.


bp


On 5/17/2018 7:47 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:

Buying 2 AF11x should be a lot cheaper... it should still be under $4k 
for the hardware.


They wouldn't get as much throughput as a more expensive 2+0 system 
though...



On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:36 AM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  So is it less expensive to buy 2 AF11x or to buy one more expensive 
2+0 system?

  -- Original Message --
  From: "Mathew Howard" 
  To: "af" 
  Sent: 5/16/2018 10:07:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF11x

Well, you could use two radios in SISO mode on each end... but then 
you'd have to deal with having separate ethernet ports and mounting the second 
radio (not to mention some extra cost).

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 3:36 PM,  wrote:

  Any way to make the V run in different frequencies?

[AFMUG] AF11x

[chuck]

Any way to make the V run in different frequencies?

Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

[chuck]

Sometimes I live under a bridge...

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 9:56 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

Well maybe he knew something about spray foam that I didn't :P


-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Prince" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 5/16/2018 11:13:45 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

  Chucks tongue was so far into his cheek with that statement, I could see it 
from California.

  ;-)



bp


On 5/16/2018 7:04 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

I'm unclear on whether that's a serious suggestion.


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" 
To: mailto:af@afmug.com 
Sent: 5/15/2018 10:52:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

  I'll give that a whirl, thanks everyone. Backup plan will be Chuck's 
PVC/spray foam idea.

  On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, TJ Trout  wrote:

Yes, we use unistrut for various tower mounts (home made) they 
defiantly can hold a mast with plenty of strength 

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 5:04 PM,  wrote:

  Stick a piece of PVC down the chimney and use spray foam to hold it 
in place.  

  From: Jason McKemie 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:28 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

  Do the unistrut conduit clamps hold the conduit tightly enough to 
mount it vertically? I thought they were intended for horizontal runs.

  On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, Sam Lambie  wrote:

Unistrut, clamps and EMT. Done

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:46 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

  It's just a wood box covered in vinyl.

  On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Josh Luthman 
 wrote:

The chimney has vinyl?  I assume it's brick behind it? 

If you have to get it from the local hardware store, go there 
and see what all can work.  I'd probably look for the best tool rather than 
limit myself to that one store, though.



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

  Anyone have any advice as to what hardware I can use to 
attach a 6' section of 1.5" emt to a chimney? It's the vinyl siding covered 
type. I was thinking of just drilling it and running lags straight through, but 
a bracket of some type, possibly utilizing pipe clamps, would be preferred. 
I'll need to source it from a local hardware store. 







-- 

-- 
Sam Lambie
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

[chuck]

I appreciate the comments.  For now, we have plenty of rack space.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 8:03 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

Yeah I was going to mention that.  When it comes down to remodeling the 
building or buying blades, then blades are a clear winner.  


-- Original Message --
From: "Paul Stewart" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 5/16/2018 8:47:03 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

  We utilize a combination of blade systems and 1U/2U servers …. Wouldn’t say 
blade systems are going away.  Basically the biggest sell point for them is 
space/power (footprint).  If space/power is at a premium (ie. 3rd party data 
center) and you need to put many servers into it then it can make sense …. In 
our case this is exactly why we continue to deploy Cisco ACS blade systems in 
particular – they work well and footprint is small.

   

  In areas where we have abundant space/power then 1U servers are preferred 

   

  Paul

   

   

  From: Af  on behalf of Josh Luthman 

  Reply-To: 
  Date: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 at 4:04 PM
  To: 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

   

  Servers for what?

   

  Blades are kind of a thing of the past, I think.  It's way easier and cheaper 
to do something like HA with ESXi.




   

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

   

  On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:03 PM,  wrote:

I need a pair of servers, prefer DC powered but not absolutely stuck on 
that.  Like to have nice blade server system with hot standby etc.  Been some 
time since I spec’d out servers.  

 

Any suggestions?

   

Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

[chuck]

Stick a piece of PVC down the chimney and use spray foam to hold it in place.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

Do the unistrut conduit clamps hold the conduit tightly enough to mount it 
vertically? I thought they were intended for horizontal runs.

On Tuesday, May 15, 2018, Sam Lambie  wrote:

  Unistrut, clamps and EMT. Done

  On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:46 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

It's just a wood box covered in vinyl.

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:08 PM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  The chimney has vinyl?  I assume it's brick behind it? 

  If you have to get it from the local hardware store, go there and see 
what all can work.  I'd probably look for the best tool rather than limit 
myself to that one store, though.



  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

Anyone have any advice as to what hardware I can use to attach a 6' 
section of 1.5" emt to a chimney? It's the vinyl siding covered type. I was 
thinking of just drilling it and running lags straight through, but a bracket 
of some type, possibly utilizing pipe clamps, would be preferred. I'll need to 
source it from a local hardware store. 







  -- 

  -- 
  Sam Lambie
  Taosnet Wireless Tech.
  575-758-7598 Office
  www.Taosnet.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

[chuck]

I am singing...

BTW you would probably be the guy that would end up maintaining them...

From: Dennis Burgess 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 2:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

BTW, I have a bunch of 1855 blade centers sitting, quad power supplies, dual 
switches, 10 blades most have dual dual core Xeons around 2.0 – 2.4 ghz. 10 
blades each.  I can sell you for a song!  

 

From: Af  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 3:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

 

Thus the question.  10 years ago blade servers were all the rage.  

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 2:04 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

 

Servers for what? 

 

Blades are kind of a thing of the past, I think.  It's way easier and cheaper 
to do something like HA with ESXi.

 

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:03 PM,  wrote:

  I need a pair of servers, prefer DC powered but not absolutely stuck on that. 
 Like to have nice blade server system with hot standby etc.  Been some time 
since I spec’d out servers.  

   

  Any suggestions?

 

Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

[chuck]

Most chimneys have a large central hole that you can stick a large pipe down...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 2:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Attaching pole to Chimney

The chimney has vinyl?  I assume it's brick behind it? 

If you have to get it from the local hardware store, go there and see what all 
can work.  I'd probably look for the best tool rather than limit myself to that 
one store, though.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:07 PM, Jason McKemie 
 wrote:

  Anyone have any advice as to what hardware I can use to attach a 6' section 
of 1.5" emt to a chimney? It's the vinyl siding covered type. I was thinking of 
just drilling it and running lags straight through, but a bracket of some type, 
possibly utilizing pipe clamps, would be preferred. I'll need to source it from 
a local hardware store. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

[chuck]

Thus the question.  10 years ago blade servers were all the rage.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 2:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

Servers for what? 

Blades are kind of a thing of the past, I think.  It's way easier and cheaper 
to do something like HA with ESXi.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 2:03 PM,  wrote:

  I need a pair of servers, prefer DC powered but not absolutely stuck on that. 
 Like to have nice blade server system with hot standby etc.  Been some time 
since I spec’d out servers.  

  Any suggestions?

[AFMUG] OT NOC server choice

[chuck]

I need a pair of servers, prefer DC powered but not absolutely stuck on that.  
Like to have nice blade server system with hot standby etc.  Been some time 
since I spec’d out servers.  

Any suggestions?

Re: [AFMUG] Custom CNUT - snmp tools for mass changes?

[chuck]

Many years ago, did it all the time.  

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 10:00 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Custom CNUT - snmp tools for mass changes?

Anyone has experience doing mass changes in CNUT? 


  Gino A. Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

Re: [AFMUG] Flat Drop Aerial

[Chuck McCown]

I have run many spans of stuff called Rural C wire down country roads.  It is 
about the same size as flat fiber drop.  You do want to put twists in the span 
to keep it from dancing in the wind.  I cannot think of a reason for a 3 span 
limit.  I know of no limit unless it has to do with the way the strength member 
 distributes the stresses.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 6:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Flat Drop Aerial

I'm looking at running flat drop down a country road, possibly on poles.  The 
specs I've read say not to run more than 3 spans for some reason.  Has anyone 
done this?  Is their better attachment hardware than wedge clamps for this 
application? 

Thanks.

Jason

Re: [AFMUG] DWDM SFPs in a CWDM system

[Chuck McCown]

Hmmm.  I wonder if DWDM mux equipment has filters or something in it.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2018 4:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM SFPs in a CWDM system

You can, but we ran into compatability issues with 10G DWDM SFPs where the CWDM 
version worked fine, with fiberstore generic SFPs in mikrotik and Planet 
equipment. 

On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 6:10 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Why could you not use DWDM SFPs into a CWDM mux if you spaced them out?  They 
are about $150 cheaper.  

[AFMUG] DWDM SFPs in a CWDM system

[Chuck McCown]

Why could you not use DWDM SFPs into a CWDM mux if you spaced them out?  They 
are about $150 cheaper.  

Re: [AFMUG] PTP800 ODU

[chuck]

No, you have to convert rectangular to square and then square to circular to 
do a rectangular to circular transition.
If the nose of the dish had a rectangular hole, then it would mate right up 
without problems.


https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c2f7/23c37af9951dfa018248f24e586323556ee1.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4O_GXXAQYI

-Original Message- 
From: George Skorup

Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 11:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PTP800 ODU

I guess I just don't know enough about the slight differences since I've
never seen a PTP800 ODU interface. But that's exactly what a Trango ODU
(just Remec OEM) does. The port on the ODU is rectangular and mates up
directly with the circular port on the dish. Is there a gap or something
for matching?

On 5/13/2018 12:29 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
If you butt a rectangular waveguide to a circular waveguide will have some 
return loss mismatch issues.


It would work to a certain extent but you will not have as much tx power 
as you should and you will have RX loss.


Yes, everything else is the same.  I would give it a try.  It will 
probably work in a pinch but best to fix it right for the long term.


-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 11:07 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] PTP800 ODU

Anybody know if an 11GHz PTP800 ODU will mate with a Trango dish? I know
the PTP800 ODUs are Remec rectangular, but the Trango dish is Remec
circular. But aren't the physical interface dimensions the same? The
Trango dish is just a round hole, so no plate to rotate to change 
polarity.


Got a dead ODU on an ApexPlus-11 and I think I can get my hands on a
PTP800 ODU-B. I know Cambium/Ceragon has single and dual pol IP20/PTP820
Remec adapters now, so we're debating whether to fix the one end with
this or just swap to PTP820's.

Re: [AFMUG] PTP800 ODU

[Chuck McCown]

If you butt a rectangular waveguide to a circular waveguide will have some 
return loss mismatch issues.


It would work to a certain extent but you will not have as much tx power as 
you should and you will have RX loss.


Yes, everything else is the same.  I would give it a try.  It will probably 
work in a pinch but best to fix it right for the long term.


-Original Message- 
From: George Skorup

Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2018 11:07 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: [AFMUG] PTP800 ODU

Anybody know if an 11GHz PTP800 ODU will mate with a Trango dish? I know
the PTP800 ODUs are Remec rectangular, but the Trango dish is Remec
circular. But aren't the physical interface dimensions the same? The
Trango dish is just a round hole, so no plate to rotate to change polarity.

Got a dead ODU on an ApexPlus-11 and I think I can get my hands on a
PTP800 ODU-B. I know Cambium/Ceragon has single and dual pol IP20/PTP820
Remec adapters now, so we're debating whether to fix the one end with
this or just swap to PTP820's. 

Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

[chuck]

That is why I like exeltech.  If an inverter dies, you only lose 1000 watts of 
capacity.  So you put in enough modules for your load plus an extra module.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2018 12:14 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

No, I mean you can parallel as many -48VDC input sides as you want, off a bus 
bar or battery setup, assuming that the wiring is set up right. The 120VAC 
outputs would of course be totally independent. Depending on your requirements 
it could be a better solution to a 1+0 "all eggs in one basket" large inverter 
setup, where if the inverter dies, all AC loads go down. In the sort of 
arrangement I mentioned the AC loads for things with dual power supplies could 
be built as 1+1.


On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 7:30 AM,  wrote:

  When you say you can parallel as many as you want, but then say to limit the 
load on individual units, that does not sound like all the outputs are combined 
to me.  

  Do you actually combine the outputs in parallel?  

  If so you really cannot limit current to individual units, the load will 
divide across the inverters based on internal and external impedances.  

  From: Eric Kuhnke 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 8:10 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

  You could also look into individual 1500W meanwell true sine wave inverters, 
running in parallel off your 48vdc battery bus. You can parallel as many as you 
need. Don't load any individual one with more than 1300W constant. Wire up the 
output from each meanwell to 120vac PDUs with amperage meter inline and 
distribute from there. 

  On Tue, May 8, 2018, 12:58 PM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

Looking for 48 vdc inverters for data room applications in the range of 6-8 
kw

Can be a all in one system ( charger plus Inverter) , must be always online 



  Gino A. Villarini
 
  President 
  Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

Re: [AFMUG] OT do I have courage

[chuck]

Now, if only TSLA would get back down to $200 I would buy some of them again.  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 2:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT do I have courage

I did it.  400 shares...

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 2:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT do I have courage

HMNY (MoviePass) is trading at 61 cents today.  

Off its peak of $38.86.

I wonder if I have the guts to buy any.  

Re: [AFMUG] OT do I have courage

[chuck]

I did it.  400 shares...

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 2:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT do I have courage

HMNY (MoviePass) is trading at 61 cents today.  

Off its peak of $38.86.

I wonder if I have the guts to buy any.  

[AFMUG] OT do I have courage

[chuck]

HMNY (MoviePass) is trading at 61 cents today.  

Off its peak of $38.86.

I wonder if I have the guts to buy any.  

Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

[chuck]

When you say you can parallel as many as you want, but then say to limit the 
load on individual units, that does not sound like all the outputs are combined 
to me.  

Do you actually combine the outputs in parallel?  

If so you really cannot limit current to individual units, the load will divide 
across the inverters based on internal and external impedances.  

From: Eric Kuhnke 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 8:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 48 vdc Inverteres for Data Room 6kw ?

You could also look into individual 1500W meanwell true sine wave inverters, 
running in parallel off your 48vdc battery bus. You can parallel as many as you 
need. Don't load any individual one with more than 1300W constant. Wire up the 
output from each meanwell to 120vac PDUs with amperage meter inline and 
distribute from there. 

On Tue, May 8, 2018, 12:58 PM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

  Looking for 48 vdc inverters for data room applications in the range of 6-8 kw

  Can be a all in one system ( charger plus Inverter) , must be always online 


Gino A. Villarini
   
President 
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968 

[AFMUG] OT such a deal

[chuck]

My #2 son just got accepted to grad school, government will pay for school and 
keep his payroll running while he is in school.  (He is an EE at Hill Air force 
Base).  Such a good deal.  I am proud and jealous all at the same time.  

Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

[chuck]

Not really sure as we did most of it ourself.  Probably $2000 for the 
foundation and another $1500 for erection.  

From: James Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 12:44 PM
To: 'af@afmug.com' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

What did you end up spending to install it?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 1:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

$5,721.00 + Tax and shipping

 

$7,889.00 

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 11:40 AM

To: 'af@afmug.com' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

What did it end up costing?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 11:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

Rohn SSV.

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 10:30 AM

To: 'af@afmug.com' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

Dredging up an old thread here.  What did you end up going with Chuck?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 2:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

Needs to be self supporting.

 

From: Chuck McCown 

Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:31 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

Found a 96 footer Titan from Tessco for about $4600.

Any better deals or stronger towers for a similar price?




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Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

[chuck]

$5,721.00 + Tax and shipping



$7,889.00 

From: James Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 11:40 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

What did it end up costing?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 11:43 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

Rohn SSV.

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 10:30 AM

To: 'af@afmug.com' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

Dredging up an old thread here.  What did you end up going with Chuck?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 2:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

Needs to be self supporting.

 

From: Chuck McCown 

Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:31 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

Found a 96 footer Titan from Tessco for about $4600.

Any better deals or stronger towers for a similar price?




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Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

[chuck]

Rohn SSV.

From: James Howard 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 10:30 AM
To: 'af@afmug.com' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

Dredging up an old thread here.  What did you end up going with Chuck?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, October 9, 2017 2:32 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

Needs to be self supporting.

 

From: Chuck McCown 

Sent: Monday, October 09, 2017 1:31 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: [AFMUG] Good tower for 100'

 

Found a 96 footer Titan from Tessco for about $4600.

Any better deals or stronger towers for a similar price?




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Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa

[chuck]

They are light sensitive if they are made out of glass.  Not so much with the 
ceramics.
The mixture of gasses set the breakdown voltage.  The ones I use fire at about 
90 volts.  

I remember working at sites where the gas tubes were filled with radioactive 
gases.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 10:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa

I thought it took hundreds of volts to trigger a gas tube.

Aren't some of them light sensitive?  What if the APC chassis was near a window 
and getting direct sunlight?


-- Original Message --
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 5/9/2018 12:00:20 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa

  Funny, the product is so simple.  Jacks.  Tubes.  

  Electrodes with gas between them from the Ethernet lines to ground.  

  The only way the tubes can affect the circuit is if they are ionized, which 
means a high voltage coming from somewhere.  could be coming from a ground loop 
or ???

  Or a tube could be bad, or there could be a solder bridge but the test and 
inspection procedure should have caught that.  


  From: Sam Lambie 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 9:56 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa

  FYI, 

  I installed the gas tube version on a gigabit  Packetflux Powered Medusa the 
other week and no go. The radio boots up for about 25 seconds, and then shuts 
down.

  On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:54 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

I am going to chase this down.  Only certain types of products have the 
issue it seems.  
I am going to try to add solid state to the gas tubes using a different 
design that eliminates the steering diodes.
Seems like the steering diodes are causing the problem in some situations.  

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 9:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa

No diodes, just gas-tube for large surge event suppression. Obviously not 
as much protection though. I'm seeing more CRC errors than I'm comfortable with 
on the cards with diodes. Rev G is definitely better though. I've broken the 
shield at various sites while testing to rule out any potential ground loop 
issues. Ran on battery. Etc. It's weird. Noise or something, I don't know.


On 5/9/2018 10:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

  What's this gas tube product placement? 
  I want to see these

  On Wed, May 9, 2018, 9:51 AM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Thanks, yeah nothing fit well next to the thin pcbs.

Odd, got some test results back from George yesterday.  Some types of 
equipment has CRC errors with some of our surge suppressors.  Trying to 
identify the bad combinations.  Good thing is that our gas tube only 
products seem to be flawless with everything that people have tried 
them on.

-Original Message- 
From: Matt
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 8:08 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with Medusa

    Chuck,

Like form factor of new arrestors much better.  Thicker PCB and RJ45
not as tall.  They do not fit well next to your last thin pcb version
though.  Did not care for the thin pcb and tall RJ45 at all.  Swapped
out 4 PxP450i APC arrestors to these 17 hours ago.  So far flawless
even at 1000base.  No errors at all.  This is with RackInjector,
Cambium Sync and very long cat-5 runs.  Time will tell but looks good
so far.



On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 10:29 AM,  <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> Matt,
>
> I sent you a note off-list.  I would like to send you the gas tube 
version
> to see if that fixes the issue.
>
> Inquiring minds want to know...
>
> -Original Message- From: Matt
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2018 4:08 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mccowntech rack mount surge suppressor with 
Medusa
>
>> OK, so grounds are related to the problem.
>>
>> There may be something unusual with timing pulses on the power that 
is
>> causing the surge suppressor to fire.
>> Forrest would know much more than I about that.
>>
>> I honestly don’t know if anyone has tried my product with a Medusa 
>> before.
>> I have a 100% gas tube version that may solve the problem.
>
>
> I am still having some troubles with PTP450i holding 1gbit ethernet
> even with Cambium sync.  Not near as bad with Cambium Sync though.
> Will these gas tube versions work any better?  Will