Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
On 8/1/13, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.com wrote: It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. I was going to post the same thing - non compete clauses are fairly (well were) over here in the UK, but are utterly unenforceable. Double check the NM law you're worried, but I wouldn't worry overly. Lisa ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
I probably jumped the gun a little. On first read it seemed to be saying that I was not allowed to look for a job anywhere while they are shopping my resume around. Which sounded ridiculous. Now they are asking for my SS# and have not even interviewed my. I dunno, I'm just uncomfortable with this one.. From: Lisa Singh lisa.si...@gmail.com To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA On 8/1/13, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.com wrote: It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. I was going to post the same thing - non compete clauses are fairly (well were) over here in the UK, but are utterly unenforceable. Double check the NM law you're worried, but I wouldn't worry overly. Lisa ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
I had a friend locally that was being asked for his social by a recruiter, similar situation to yours where no interview was scheduled yet...the recruiter stated that it was to perform a background check to ensure there was no fraud on his part before submitting himfor me, the only person needing my social is my employer so they can report my earnings to the government, or so they can do my government issued background investigation...outside of that...I typically don't provide it. On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Scott Hallenger vadr...@yahoo.com wrote: ** I probably jumped the gun a little. On first read it seemed to be saying that I was not allowed to look for a job anywhere while they are shopping my resume around. Which sounded ridiculous. Now they are asking for my SS# and have not even interviewed my. I dunno, I'm just uncomfortable with this one.. -- *From:* Lisa Singh lisa.si...@gmail.com *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG *Sent:* Friday, August 2, 2013 8:00 AM *Subject:* Re: Recruiters Odd NDA On 8/1/13, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.com wrote: It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. I was going to post the same thing - non compete clauses are fairly (well were) over here in the UK, but are utterly unenforceable. Double check the NM law you're worried, but I wouldn't worry overly. Lisa ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
I would back away from them. There are enough free and very legit agencies out there who do not ask for this up front. I have been a part of many NDA write-ups and would never have worded something like this. Also just to let some of you guys in on a little secret... I worked for a company that actually served a former employee with a cease and desist to both the former employee AND his new employer because of an NDA. The fella told them to bring on their lawyers the new company terminated him anyway. Seems that the courts do not need to get involved all the time. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 8:26 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I probably jumped the gun a little. On first read it seemed to be saying that I was not allowed to look for a job anywhere while they are shopping my resume around. Which sounded ridiculous. Now they are asking for my SS# and have not even interviewed my. I dunno, I'm just uncomfortable with this one.. From: Lisa Singh lisa.si...@gmail.commailto:lisa.si...@gmail.com To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORGmailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA On 8/1/13, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.commailto:rjust2...@aol.com wrote: It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. I was going to post the same thing - non compete clauses are fairly (well were) over here in the UK, but are utterly unenforceable. Double check the NM law you're worried, but I wouldn't worry overly. Lisa ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.orghttp://www.arslist.org/ Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
Just my 2 cents - if I was uncomfortable with a couple items and it seemed a bit strange, it probably wouldn't be worth pursuing. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 9:26 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I probably jumped the gun a little. On first read it seemed to be saying that I was not allowed to look for a job anywhere while they are shopping my resume around. Which sounded ridiculous. Now they are asking for my SS# and have not even interviewed my. I dunno, I'm just uncomfortable with this one.. _ From: Lisa Singh lisa.si...@gmail.com mailto:lisa.si...@gmail.com To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA On 8/1/13, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.com mailto:rjust2...@aol.com wrote: It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. I was going to post the same thing - non compete clauses are fairly (well were) over here in the UK, but are utterly unenforceable. Double check the NM law you're worried, but I wouldn't worry overly. Lisa ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org http://www.arslist.org/ Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
Thanks and thats exactly what I did I signed the Non Compete but left my social out. If they have a problem with that then I guess it goodbye. From: Longwing, Lj llongw...@usgs.gov To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I had a friend locally that was being asked for his social by a recruiter, similar situation to yours where no interview was scheduled yet...the recruiter stated that it was to perform a background check to ensure there was no fraud on his part before submitting himfor me, the only person needing my social is my employer so they can report my earnings to the government, or so they can do my government issued background investigation...outside of that...I typically don't provide it. On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 7:26 AM, Scott Hallenger vadr...@yahoo.com wrote: ** I probably jumped the gun a little. On first read it seemed to be saying that I was not allowed to look for a job anywhere while they are shopping my resume around. Which sounded ridiculous. Now they are asking for my SS# and have not even interviewed my. I dunno, I'm just uncomfortable with this one.. From: Lisa Singh lisa.si...@gmail.com To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA On 8/1/13, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.com wrote: It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. I was going to post the same thing - non compete clauses are fairly (well were) over here in the UK, but are utterly unenforceable. Double check the NM law you're worried, but I wouldn't worry overly. Lisa ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
Scott, In my 30+ years in IT and a few positions found for me by headhunters, when I am asked for my SS number or other that I would give an employer. I walk away. I do understand that they need to do some type of checkup on the person they want to put in front of a possible employer, but let them verify my public resume. The people who work at some of the headhunters change jobs faster than car salesmen. So my trust goes only so far. Once again something here does not pass the smell test. Howard From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 9:26 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I probably jumped the gun a little. On first read it seemed to be saying that I was not allowed to look for a job anywhere while they are shopping my resume around. Which sounded ridiculous. Now they are asking for my SS# and have not even interviewed my. I dunno, I'm just uncomfortable with this one.. _ From: Lisa Singh lisa.si...@gmail.com To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA On 8/1/13, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.com wrote: It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. I was going to post the same thing - non compete clauses are fairly (well were) over here in the UK, but are utterly unenforceable. Double check the NM law you're worried, but I wouldn't worry overly. Lisa ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org http://www.arslist.org/ Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
Advice taken...! From: Howard Richter hbr4...@gmail.com To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 11:59 AM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** Scott, In my 30+ years in IT and a few positions found for me by headhunters, when I am asked for my SS number or other that I would give an employer. I walk away. I do understand that they need to do some type of checkup on the person they want to put in front of a possible employer, but let them verify my public resume. The people who work at some of the headhunters change jobs faster than car salesmen. So my trust goes only so far. Once again something here does not pass the smell test. Howard From:Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Friday, August 02, 2013 9:26 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I probably jumped the gun a little. On first read it seemed to be saying that I was not allowed to look for a job anywhere while they are shopping my resume around. Which sounded ridiculous. Now they are asking for my SS# and have not even interviewed my. I dunno, I'm just uncomfortable with this one.. From:Lisa Singh lisa.si...@gmail.com To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Friday, August 2, 2013 8:00 AM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA On 8/1/13, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.com wrote: It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. I was going to post the same thing - non compete clauses are fairly (well were) over here in the UK, but are utterly unenforceable. Double check the NM law you're worried, but I wouldn't worry overly. Lisa ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Recruiters Odd NDA
I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
Yikes, what the heck does introduced by the Company mean? That sounds really vague. I didn't have anything like that in my offer letter. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
I understand the 'reason' behind the NDAand it's not really an NDA...more of a contractthe wording of it is a bit harsh...but basically they have probably been bitten before with bringing a person to a prospective client, and then had that consultant go directly to the customer and get hired, removing them from the mix, and cutting out their 'cut' of the moneythe part that is 'limiting' in their power on this seems to be the part that Lisa latched onto of 'Introduced by the Company'so basically, this is limiting their power to not be all companies that they do business with, but companies that you came to, as part of your relationship with 'the Company'while I'm not lawyer, I don't see anything all that harmful in this contract. On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Kemes, Lisa A DLA CTR INFORMATION OPERATIONS lisa.kemes@dla.mil wrote: Yikes, what the heck does introduced by the Company mean? That sounds really vague. I didn't have anything like that in my offer letter. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
Sounds like more of a non-compete to me. it would be up to the 'company' to prove that they 'introduced' you to their 'customer'. As LJ said, it's more to prevent someone from pulling business away from the 'company'. Of course this opinion is neither an endorsement or refusal by the author and is not to be interpreted as that of the 'company' or other persons that have dealings with the author (in other words, I'm not a lawyer either so make your own decision on signing or not signing). pritch - Original Message - From: Lj Longwing llongw...@usgs.gov To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:21:08 PM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I understand the 'reason' behind the NDAand it's not really an NDA...more of a contractthe wording of it is a bit harsh...but basically they have probably been bitten before with bringing a person to a prospective client, and then had that consultant go directly to the customer and get hired, removing them from the mix, and cutting out their 'cut' of the moneythe part that is 'limiting' in their power on this seems to be the part that Lisa latched onto of 'Introduced by the Company'so basically, this is limiting their power to not be all companies that they do business with, but companies that you came to, as part of your relationship with 'the Company'while I'm not lawyer, I don't see anything all that harmful in this contract. On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Kemes, Lisa A DLA CTR INFORMATION OPERATIONS lisa.kemes@dla.mil wrote: Yikes, what the heck does introduced by the Company mean? That sounds really vague. I didn't have anything like that in my offer letter. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG ] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
My recommendation: Get an attorney's opinion.. don't sign anything until then... -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of pritch Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 2:46 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA Sounds like more of a non-compete to me. it would be up to the 'company' to prove that they 'introduced' you to their 'customer'. As LJ said, it's more to prevent someone from pulling business away from the 'company'. Of course this opinion is neither an endorsement or refusal by the author and is not to be interpreted as that of the 'company' or other persons that have dealings with the author (in other words, I'm not a lawyer either so make your own decision on signing or not signing). pritch - Original Message - From: Lj Longwing llongw...@usgs.gov To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:21:08 PM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I understand the 'reason' behind the NDAand it's not really an NDA...more of a contractthe wording of it is a bit harsh...but basically they have probably been bitten before with bringing a person to a prospective client, and then had that consultant go directly to the customer and get hired, removing them from the mix, and cutting out their 'cut' of the moneythe part that is 'limiting' in their power on this seems to be the part that Lisa latched onto of 'Introduced by the Company'so basically, this is limiting their power to not be all companies that they do business with, but companies that you came to, as part of your relationship with 'the Company'while I'm not lawyer, I don't see anything all that harmful in this contract. On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Kemes, Lisa A DLA CTR INFORMATION OPERATIONS lisa.kemes@dla.mil wrote: Yikes, what the heck does introduced by the Company mean? That sounds really vague. I didn't have anything like that in my offer letter. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG ] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
I don't think you overreacted. How remote is it? I'm not sure how much I would trust them either, especially with phrases like sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. Fred -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Rhonda Zacharias [EverFind] Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 2:56 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA My recommendation: Get an attorney's opinion.. don't sign anything until then... -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of pritch Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 2:46 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA Sounds like more of a non-compete to me. it would be up to the 'company' to prove that they 'introduced' you to their 'customer'. As LJ said, it's more to prevent someone from pulling business away from the 'company'. Of course this opinion is neither an endorsement or refusal by the author and is not to be interpreted as that of the 'company' or other persons that have dealings with the author (in other words, I'm not a lawyer either so make your own decision on signing or not signing). pritch - Original Message - From: Lj Longwing llongw...@usgs.gov To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 3:21:08 PM Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I understand the 'reason' behind the NDAand it's not really an NDA...more of a contractthe wording of it is a bit harsh...but basically they have probably been bitten before with bringing a person to a prospective client, and then had that consultant go directly to the customer and get hired, removing them from the mix, and cutting out their 'cut' of the moneythe part that is 'limiting' in their power on this seems to be the part that Lisa latched onto of 'Introduced by the Company'so basically, this is limiting their power to not be all companies that they do business with, but companies that you came to, as part of your relationship with 'the Company'while I'm not lawyer, I don't see anything all that harmful in this contract. -Original Message- On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Kemes, Lisa A DLA CTR INFORMATION OPERATIONS wrote: Yikes, what the heck does introduced by the Company mean? That sounds really vague. I didn't have anything like that in my offer letter. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG ] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA
Scott: I do see where the guy is coming from – he’s looking after his own interests, and I can understand his wanting to do that. I can even imagine a few experiences which may have prompted the writing of that particular NDA. I think the problem is, he’s so busy looking after his own interests that he doesn’t really think about how confining the arrangement being proposed is for the people he’s claiming to serve by hooking them up with prospective employers. I can’t imagine anyone except someone desperate agreeing to that. While it can be helpful to work with recruiters, that particular arrangement seems a bit too one-sided in his side’s favor to me. And if he’s pressuring you, on the one hand, I can appreciate that he’s out hustling to try and find people, but on the other, he really does need to leave things up to you. Letting people make their own decisions is basic respect, and if he has a valid position with competitive wages to offer, he shouldn’t need to pressure you – you’re either interested or you’re not. So either he’s a basically decent guy who is simply trying too hard or else he’s a not-so-decent sort with some other agenda motivating him. Personally, I’d probably steer clear. I see enough yellow flags here that working with “the Company” seems like a risk I’d prefer to avoid. Best of luck, Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.govmailto:nkst...@sandia.gov ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 – Windows 2003 – SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA
Ask him for a guaranteed signing bonus of say, oh I don't know, US Dollars Ten Thousand? - Original Message - From: Natalie K Stroud nkst...@sandia.gov To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:09:00 PM Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** Scott: I do see where the guy is coming from – he’s looking after his own interests, and I can understand his wanting to do that. I can even imagine a few experiences which may have prompted the writing of that particular NDA. I think the problem is, he’s so busy looking after his own interests that he doesn’t really think about how confining the arrangement being proposed is for the people he’s claiming to serve by hooking them up with prospective employers. I can’t imagine anyone except someone desperate agreeing to that. While it can be helpful to work with recruiters, that particular arrangement seems a bit too one-sided in his side’s favor to me. And if he’s pressuring you, on the one hand, I can appreciate that he’s out hustling to try and find people, but on the other, he really does need to leave things up to you. Letting people make their own decisions is basic respect, and if he has a valid position with competitive wages to offer, he shouldn’t need to pressure you – you’re either interested or you’re not. So either he’s a basically decent guy who is simply trying too hard or else he’s a not-so-decent sort with some other agenda motivating him. Personally, I’d probably steer clear. I see enough yellow flags here that working with “the Company” seems like a risk I’d prefer to avoid. Best of luck, Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.gov ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 – Windows 2003 – SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less , Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA
You can always counter the NDA and send back your own wording for them to agree to. I absolutely would not agree to pay the liquidation penalty (most likely the recruiter's fee which is normally based upon the negotiated salary) and then an addition 10k. All this recruiter would have to do is blast fax your resume out and then he/ she has introduced you to every company whether they are hiring or not. I agree though that if something makes you uncomfortable then don't do it. There are plenty of other agencies and opportunities out there. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of pritch Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:20 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA Ask him for a guaranteed signing bonus of say, oh I don't know, US Dollars Ten Thousand? - Original Message - From: Natalie K Stroud nkst...@sandia.gov To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:09:00 PM Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** Scott: I do see where the guy is coming from – he’s looking after his own interests, and I can understand his wanting to do that. I can even imagine a few experiences which may have prompted the writing of that particular NDA. I think the problem is, he’s so busy looking after his own interests that he doesn’t really think about how confining the arrangement being proposed is for the people he’s claiming to serve by hooking them up with prospective employers. I can’t imagine anyone except someone desperate agreeing to that. While it can be helpful to work with recruiters, that particular arrangement seems a bit too one-sided in his side’s favor to me. And if he’s pressuring you, on the one hand, I can appreciate that he’s out hustling to try and find people, but on the other, he really does need to leave things up to you. Letting people make their own decisions is basic respect, and if he has a valid position with competitive wages to offer, he shouldn’t need to pressure you – you’re either interested or you’re not. So either he’s a basically decent guy who is simply trying too hard or else he’s a not-so-decent sort with some other agenda motivating him. Personally, I’d probably steer clear. I see enough yellow flags here that working with “the Company” seems like a risk I’d prefer to avoid. Best of luck, Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.gov ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 – Windows 2003 – SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less , Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA
I agree with LJ. This is standard contracting language to prevent the client from poaching you from the contract agency. Poorly worded, but standard. I've been on both sides of it for lots of years. Rick On Aug 1, 2013 1:35 PM, Tommy Morris tommy.mor...@radioshack.com wrote: You can always counter the NDA and send back your own wording for them to agree to. I absolutely would not agree to pay the liquidation penalty (most likely the recruiter's fee which is normally based upon the negotiated salary) and then an addition 10k. All this recruiter would have to do is blast fax your resume out and then he/ she has introduced you to every company whether they are hiring or not. I agree though that if something makes you uncomfortable then don't do it. There are plenty of other agencies and opportunities out there. -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of pritch Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 3:20 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA Ask him for a guaranteed signing bonus of say, oh I don't know, US Dollars Ten Thousand? - Original Message - From: Natalie K Stroud nkst...@sandia.gov To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:09:00 PM Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** Scott: I do see where the guy is coming from – he’s looking after his own interests, and I can understand his wanting to do that. I can even imagine a few experiences which may have prompted the writing of that particular NDA. I think the problem is, he’s so busy looking after his own interests that he doesn’t really think about how confining the arrangement being proposed is for the people he’s claiming to serve by hooking them up with prospective employers. I can’t imagine anyone except someone desperate agreeing to that. While it can be helpful to work with recruiters, that particular arrangement seems a bit too one-sided in his side’s favor to me. And if he’s pressuring you, on the one hand, I can appreciate that he’s out hustling to try and find people, but on the other, he really does need to leave things up to you. Letting people make their own decisions is basic respect, and if he has a valid position with competitive wages to offer, he shouldn’t need to pressure you – you’re either interested or you’re not. So either he’s a basically decent guy who is simply trying too hard or else he’s a not-so-decent sort with some other agenda motivating him. Personally, I’d probably steer clear. I see enough yellow flags here that working with “the Company” seems like a risk I’d prefer to avoid. Best of luck, Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.gov ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 – Windows 2003 – SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less , Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers
Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA
Personally, I would responds with my own contractual clause, such as... 1) During the period for which the Company markets ENTERNAMEHERE's (My, Myself, Me) skills, the Company shall perform no action that, in My opinion, reflects poorly upon My character or professionalism. Furthermore, the Company shall not market My skills nor introduce Me to a Customer without written approval from Myself. 2) The Company shall not provide any written documentation to any Customer concerning Myself that contains spelling, grammar, or mathematical errors. 3) The Company agrees to pay Me an hourly stipend (Stipend) of $125 for each Evaluatory interview. The Stipend begins when I leave My home and ends upon My return to said home. The Stipend shall be remitted to Me within 14 days of said Evaluatory interview. The Company agrees to reimburse within 60 days any Evalutory interview related travel expenses. 4) In the event the Company breaches the provisions of this Agreement, the Company agrees to pay Me, as liquidated damages and not as a penalty, a further sum of US Dollars One Hundred Thousand. The Company acknowledges that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by Me. Just my 3 cents - I have to operate at 150% to keep up :D Jim -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Stroud, Natalie K Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 4:09 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** Scott: I do see where the guy is coming from – he’s looking after his own interests, and I can understand his wanting to do that. I can even imagine a few experiences which may have prompted the writing of that particular NDA. I think the problem is, he’s so busy looking after his own interests that he doesn’t really think about how confining the arrangement being proposed is for the people he’s claiming to serve by hooking them up with prospective employers. I can’t imagine anyone except someone desperate agreeing to that. While it can be helpful to work with recruiters, that particular arrangement seems a bit too one-sided in his side’s favor to me. And if he’s pressuring you, on the one hand, I can appreciate that he’s out hustling to try and find people, but on the other, he really does need to leave things up to you. Letting people make their own decisions is basic respect, and if he has a valid position with competitive wages to offer, he shouldn’t need to pressure you – you’re either interested or you’re not. So either he’s a basically decent guy who is simply trying too hard or else he’s a not-so-decent sort with some other agenda motivating him. Personally, I’d probably steer clear. I see enough yellow flags here that working with “the Company” seems like a risk I’d prefer to avoid. Best of luck, Natalie Stroud SAIC @ Sandia National Laboratories ARS-ITSM Reporting Specialist Albuquerque, NM USA nkst...@sandia.gov ITSM 7.6.04 SP2 – Windows 2003 – SQL Server 2008 From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Hallenger Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 1:08 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: [EXTERNAL] Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. -Original Message- From: Scott Hallenger vadr...@yahoo.com To: arslist arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thu, Aug 1, 2013 3:08 pm Subject: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
It will take them more than $10,000 to sue you … they won't. Scare tactic … play fairly ... and it all works out. -John On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.com wrote: ** It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. -Original Message- From: Scott Hallenger vadr...@yahoo.com To: arslist arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thu, Aug 1, 2013 3:08 pm Subject: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ -- *John Sundberg* Kinetic Data, Inc. Your Business. Your Process. 651-556-0930 I john.sundb...@kineticdata.com www.kineticdata.com I community.kineticdata.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
I agree with John. Play fairly and it all works out. If you don't want to, why bother. Stan From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of John Sundberg Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 2:20 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** It will take them more than $10,000 to sue you . they won't. Scare tactic . play fairly ... and it all works out. -John On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.com wrote: ** It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. -Original Message- From: Scott Hallenger vadr...@yahoo.com To: arslist arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thu, Aug 1, 2013 3:08 pm Subject: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the Company) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ -- John Sundberg Kinetic Data, Inc. Your Business. Your Process. 651-556-0930 I john.sundb...@kineticdata.com http://www.kineticdata.com/ www.kineticdata.com I http://community.kineticdata.com/ community.kineticdata.com _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3209/6543 - Release Date: 08/01/13 _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3209/6541 - Release Date: 07/31/13 ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
An NDA before the job offer. Something is not passing the smell test here. Also I have an issue with the line is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter. I have seen them for a certain job (for example only he can represent you for job order xxx at Google). But this is to vague, at least for me. Unless you need the work, I would run away. Just my 3 cents, Howard From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Stanley Feinstein Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 5:22 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I agree with John. Play fairly and it all works out. If you don't want to, why bother. Stan From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of John Sundberg Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 2:20 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA ** It will take them more than $10,000 to sue you . they won't. Scare tactic . play fairly ... and it all works out. -John On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Roger Justice rjust2...@aol.com wrote: ** It is a non compete which is almost impossible to get a lawyer to take you to court for. If you live in a right to work state, which I do I have seen this tried and the court through it out. -Original Message- From: Scott Hallenger vadr...@yahoo.com To: arslist arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Sent: Thu, Aug 1, 2013 3:08 pm Subject: Recruiters Odd NDA ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the Company) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ -- John Sundberg Kinetic Data, Inc. Your Business. Your Process. 651-556-0930 I john.sundb...@kineticdata.com http://www.kineticdata.com/ www.kineticdata.com I http://community.kineticdata.com/ community.kineticdata.com _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3209/6543 - Release Date: 08/01/13 _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3209/6541 - Release Date: 07/31/13 _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
It's basically just saying that you won't cut the recruiter out the deal by taking a job directly with the firm he introduced you to. I've never used a recruiter so I don't know how standard this is but with hiring companies out there screwing recruiters out of their fees it looks like he is just putting the penalty on you if you take a job outside of him with any company he had sent your resume to or had you interview with. The only thing you can't really control is who he shares your resume with, so that would be the piece to remove or alter. He needs to have a penalty clause with his customer for that not you. On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Scott Hallenger vadr...@yahoo.com wrote: ** I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. Mind you I have no hire letter, and have had no interview thus far, and this all started today. I dont know this guy from adam. Below is what he sends me in his NDA doc. Sorry but I refused to sign his doc which he tried to pressure me into signing like a car salesman or something. Did I over react? 1. During the period when Name_Less, Inc. (the “Company”) is marketing your skills and for a period of 3 months thereafter, you shall not directly or indirectly solicit the business of (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) or provide any software engineering, consulting or programming services to any customer or prospective customer of the Company where you are introduced by the Company. Furthermore, during the course of Evaluatory interviews and other meetings that the Company organizes between you and its customers or prospective customers, you agree that you will not offer your services directly or indirectly to (or otherwise deal in a manner adverse to the Company with) the Customers or prospective customers of the Company. 2. In the event that you breach the provisions of this Agreement, you agree to pay the Company as liquidated damages and not as a penalty a further sum of US Dollars Ten Thousand. You acknowledge that liquidated damages in such amount is reasonable under the circumstances in light of the fact that significant damages and expenses will be suffered or incurred by the Company _ARSlist: Where the Answers Are and have been for 20 years_ -- *David A. Ferguson *Yurbi® - Bring Your Data to Life http://www.yurbi.com* * Work: 571-354-0515 Fax: 702-974-2704 Email: david.fergu...@5kfish.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/davferg http://www.twitter.com/davferg5000 5000fish, Inc. http://www.5kfish.com 2850 W. Horizon Ridge Parkway Suite 200 Henderson, NV 89052 http://www.linkedin.com/in/davferg ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
Scott Hallenger wrote: I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. snip Yes, I have seen this sort of non-compete agreement before, but I think this is the first I have seen where they specify the damages. Did I over react? Does it matter what we think? In the end you have to assess what it is about the document that bothers you enough that you will not sign it (and thus will not get the chance at the job … at least through this recruiter). If I were being asked to sign the document, I would amend it in the following ways: 1. The specific company you will be interviewing with must be stated in the letter. I know they will get paranoid about letting you know the name but you can counter that in two ways: a. Knowing the name of the company does not tell you which Division/Department/Branch/whatever needs the work done, nor does it tell you the contact information of the hiring manager. b. You need to protect yourself, to ensure that ANOTHER recruiter does not also claim to introduce you to the same company, putting you in double jeopardy. 2. Limit the recruitment on your behalf to just this one opportunity. If he really has an opportunity… 3. Spell out that introduction means that you obtain an interview. The recruiter sending your resume to someone does not count, as that is a one-way introduction. 4. Cut the penalty down to $1,000, unless he is willing to spell out exactly how the damages are significant. Put another way, he has to prove, either in writing before the fact, or in court after the fact, that the damages and expenses are material. 5. Cut the time down to one month after the last interview date. No one looking to hire is going to wait more than one month for you to come on board, so why should you be on the hook longer? I love the stuff people put in contracts and agreements. You probably took him aback by actually reading it! Good for you. Dale Hurtt ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: Recruiters Odd NDA
Dale, You make some good points. All I can say is Scott, good luck. Hbr -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Dale Hurtt Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 8:28 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Recruiters Odd NDA Scott Hallenger wrote: I've been goig back and fourth with a recruiter on a position that is totally remote. snip Yes, I have seen this sort of non-compete agreement before, but I think this is the first I have seen where they specify the damages. Did I over react? Does it matter what we think? In the end you have to assess what it is about the document that bothers you enough that you will not sign it (and thus will not get the chance at the job … at least through this recruiter). If I were being asked to sign the document, I would amend it in the following ways: 1. The specific company you will be interviewing with must be stated in the letter. I know they will get paranoid about letting you know the name but you can counter that in two ways: a. Knowing the name of the company does not tell you which Division/Department/Branch/whatever needs the work done, nor does it tell you the contact information of the hiring manager. b. You need to protect yourself, to ensure that ANOTHER recruiter does not also claim to introduce you to the same company, putting you in double jeopardy. 2. Limit the recruitment on your behalf to just this one opportunity. If he really has an opportunity… 3. Spell out that introduction means that you obtain an interview. The recruiter sending your resume to someone does not count, as that is a one-way introduction. 4. Cut the penalty down to $1,000, unless he is willing to spell out exactly how the damages are significant. Put another way, he has to prove, either in writing before the fact, or in court after the fact, that the damages and expenses are material. 5. Cut the time down to one month after the last interview date. No one looking to hire is going to wait more than one month for you to come on board, so why should you be on the hook longer? I love the stuff people put in contracts and agreements. You probably took him aback by actually reading it! Good for you. Dale Hurtt ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
