Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Ugh. Why do I even bother? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620811/#p620811 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god The only reason I haven't replied is just because I see no point trying to debate this with Thunderfist799. Until they can indubitably prove their claims, arguing with them is a pointless endeavor. I suppose, in one way, its why religions like Christianity have gained such prominence: no one actually wants to argue it with them because there's just no point. All you'll get back is religious fanaticism and scorn (if not worse), as though doubting the holy and perfect "religious text" and its contents were some kind of capital crime or something. When anyone asks a question that's hard or impossible to answer, they get vague answers that aren't actual answers but just deflections of the question. Of course, there are those who are willing to do it, and debate the topic all day, and those debates, when they do occur, are civil (I think, anyway), but I don't think its a majority by any means. And, of course, that kind of conflict is probably never going to go away. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620750/#p620750 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god The only reason I haven't replied is just because I see no point trying to debate this with Thunderfist799. Until they can indubitably prove their claims, arguing with them is a pointless endeavor. I suppose, in one way, its why religions like Christianity have gained such prominence: no one actually wants to argue it with them because there's just no point. All you'll get back is religious fanaticism and scorn (if not worse), as though doubting what the holy and perfect "religious text" were some kind of capital crime or something. When anyone asks a question that's hard or impossible to answer, they get vague answers that aren't actual answers but just deflections of the question. Of course, there are those who are willing to do it, but I don't think its a majority by any means. And, of course, that kind of conflict is probably never going to go away. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620750/#p620750 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god The only reason I haven't replied is just because I see no point trying to debate this with Thunderfist799. Until they can indubitably prove their claims, arguing with them is a pointless endeavor. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620750/#p620750 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Firstly I never assumed it was a fight, I said I dind't want it to become one. Second, that was precisely what I am saying. The problem is not the fact you disagreed me, the problem was the language was far too strong. It's not about me hardening my sensibilities or not, it's the fact you can't just assume everyone will take that how you want. For example, sometimes I may have a strong statement that I believe in becaues of my cultural background but may not be abel to voice it out loud due to context. That's all I'm saying. Anyway let's just put this all behind us and open a new chapter. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620692/#p620692 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god I hold no enmity or anger against those who disagree with me, just saying. Yes I can word my disagreements in slightly strong language sometimes, but you assuming that it's a "fight" takes it a bit too far. Strong disagreement? yes, fight? Not at all. Maybe harden your sensibilities a bit if you decide to debate on the internet, saying that because of 165, I disagree the way that post was framed and worded. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620690/#p620690 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god I hold no enmity or anger against those who disagree with me, just saying. Yes I can word my disagreements in slightly strong language sometimes, but you assuming that it's a "fight" takes it a bit too far. Strong disagreement? yes, fight? Not at all. Maybe harden your sensibilities a bit if you decide to debate on the internet, because you raging the way you did in 165 is just childish. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620690/#p620690 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Of course you know your family better than I. But people can get offended if you insult their family. The issue was not whether you believe whether God exists or not, it was the comment about him being "ignorant." Look, let's just resolve this amicably because there's no point in fighting. Innovation is innovation, true. The point is I really shouldn't be called a fanatic for simply expressing my views. I said I would withdraw because I don't want this to develop into a big fight or a flame war. Also to Answer GCW's question about why do we have to feel pain to go to heaven, it's more about the fact you have to earn it. Tribulations teach a person, strengthen them and draw sincere believing souls closer to Allah and remove their sins. We have to realize that Allah has a wisdom we don't know of. Now GCW has the choice to disagree or agree with that. Anyway let's not fight over this because it's really not worth it to do so. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620547/#p620547 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Just so you know, your analogy doesn't hold. What does it matter to me what do you say about my family. I know them better than you do, of course. So why would I get offended. On the other hand, they exist, that too. You, on the other hand, getting offended regarding something you don't even *know* that it exists or not for real, is just amusing, nothing else. And innovation is innovation, there's no religion involved in that. It involves critical thinking, so doesn't matter if it's done by someone from Islam, Christianity, atheism or what not. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620538/#p620538 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god 1. I don't have a problem with you debating me. Your statement that there isn't impirical evidence, I have no issue with that. I have debated with people who don't believe in a God and even with Christians! I have even debated with an agnostic as well without any problem. The problem arises when you say my religion encourages violence and that my God is ignorant etc. You don't just throw out stuff like that. So by all means, you are welcome to debate with me as much as you wish, please do feel free to do so. But all of us in this thread have to be careful of what we say in order to hurt each others feelings. My intention was not to offend GCW, her Grandmother or anyone else. As one of the posters said on this topic we need to be understanding of each others views. Your saying "Your all knowing God has to be quite ignorant right?" How about I flipped it round and I said "Oh maybe your family must be ignorant right? Or maybe they thought well of you but they were wrong," you would be extremely offended, and rightfully so. We need a mediator to resolve this topic. Again I am not a fanatic. Read history, many of the inventions we have today is because of the islamic civilization. For example, heavy artillery was invented by the Ottoman empire to try and capture the city we now know as Istanbul from the Bizantine empire. Also, the Sultan who did this, Muhammad Al-Faatih may Allah have mercy on him, was the first one to transition to firearms - other armies mainly relied on bows and arrows at that time. The neeling position used in modern battles was also invented by the Ottoman empire. And there are many inventions we had, if you only do some research, and this in no way undermines the contribution of other civilizations such as the Greeks. Also, I do feel for GCW and hope and prey his/her Grandmother will recover. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620518/#p620518 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god I wonder if I ever properly explained the point of this thread. I dont' really feel like rereading my first post, but it was basically me trying to say that if there is a god, he does some really fucked up shit, so don't come to me saying it's a test, or it wil strengthen me or any such nonsense like that, because it's bullshit.If heaven is a paradise where you have no worries, why must some people go through needless pain to get there? At first, she wasn't having any, and we thought that maybe the dementia was somehow masking it, but she is now experiencing a lot of pain and it sucks. We have meds to give her but they don't really eliminate it entirely, they just sort of fuck her up to the point where she just zonks out.It feels weird wishing someone would please hurry up and die, but that's where I'm at, if only because that's the only way to fix this. And in many ways, I feel like I've already lost her. Even when she was ambulatory and relatively well, her dementia had mutated her personality. She hasn't been the grandma I grew up with for many years. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620504/#p620504 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god 1. you claim your god is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, as said in your scripture.2. I assert that there's not even one empirically verifiable fact in the same scripture-otherwise it sure would've contained something which scientists of today would've found to be true, but of course, they didn't. all it contains are falsehoods and unverifiable claims.3. I throw out a question that in that case your god has to be ignorant, right? notice the question mark.4. I assert the answer- how can he be, when he's nonexistent and your scripture was written to control the masses?5. you lash out at me, without carefully reading through my post, typical brainwash, eh?have you even realized how rude you've been to GCW by saying that it's a test that he and his family is going through so much pain and suffering? is your innate sense of empathy so much warped by dogmatic fanaticism that you've lost the capacity to feel emotions without wearing the tinted spectacles of theology? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620495/#p620495 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god There's no point in debating this subject with Thunderfist799. They're too fanatical; no matter what logic and science tell them, their religious text will always dominate their life, no matter how many inaccuracies it has. It could say the sky is red, or that we're like the myth of Merlin and we go backwards through time, or any number of other things, and they'd believe it. Of course, the onus is on them to actually prove that their religious text is even remotely accurate, not on us to disprove it, but... Eh, they didn't get that memo or they deleted it, I guess. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620498/#p620498 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god There's no point in debating this subject with Thunderfist799. They're too fanatical; no matter what logic and science tell them, their religious text will always dominate their life, no matter how many inaccuracies it has. It could say the sky is red, or that we're like the myth of Merlin and we go backwards through time, or any number of other things, and they'd believe it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620498/#p620498 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god There's no point in debating this subject with Thunderfist799. They're too fanatical; no matter what logic and science tell them, their religious text will always dominate their life, no matter how many inaccuracies it has. It could say the sky is red and they'd believe it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620498/#p620498 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god There's no point in debating this subject with Thunderfist799. He's too fanatical; no matter what logic and science tell him, his religious text will always dominate his life. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620498/#p620498 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god mods, close down this topic, mods, mods mods mods mods mods. My delicate sensibilities are offended, do me justice and close down this topic.I was actually cool with most of the posts in this thread up until that dude.. yeesh. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620497/#p620497 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god 1. you claim your god is all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving, as said in your scripture.2. I assert that there's not even one empirically verifiable fact in the same scripture-otherwise it sure would've contained something which scientists of today would've proved, but of course, they didn't. all it contains are falsehoods and unverifiable claims.3. I throw out a question that in that case your god has to be ignorant, right? notice the question mark.4. I assert the answer- how can he be, when he's nonexistent and your scripture was written to control the masses?5. you lash out at me, without carefully reading through my post, typical brainwash, eh?have you even realized how rude you've been to GCW by saying that it's a test that he and his family is going through so much pain and suffering? is your innate sense of empathy so much warped by dogmatic fanaticism that you've lost the capacity to feel emotions without wearing the tinted spectacles of theology? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620495/#p620495 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Your comment just shows how rude you are, 64. I've given you the proof you want. Even if we assume theories like evolution exist, the fact is someone would have had to cause it - it couldn't be done on its own. However I see by attacking the one who I worship all you are doing is mocking him by calling him "ignorant." For this reason, I'm officially withdrawing myself from this topic. You could politely disagree but you chose not to, instead you called Allah "ignorant." So I won't debate this any longer with you. Mods, please close down this topic or at the very least remove it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620481/#p620481 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @160, not an iota of objectively and empirically verifiable fact and/or information is found in your scripture. It was obviously written when the human knowledge was not as advanced as it is today. Look at the creation theory, for instance. It had been debunked by the science a long time ago. Obviously your all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving God has to be way more ignorant than the men of today who rely on objectivity and rationality in that case, right? Or wait, it was not God-sent at all. It was obviously manmade, just like all the other religious scriptures. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620476/#p620476 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god No, it's because you don't desire to see proof or look outside your box. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620474/#p620474 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god That is because you can never do such a thing even if your heart desired it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620473/#p620473 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @160 believe me, if we brought you proof, you wouldn't accept it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620468/#p620468 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Several points1. The qur'an was not written by Allah, it was sent down by Allah. Just as he takes care of the original form in the chests of men and women, so does he take care of the written coppies. "And it is we who have sent down the qur'an, and it is we who will be its gardions."2. I believe you need to understand something about the arabic language, because that is what Allah chose to reveal the qur'an in. In the arabic language, there are no neutral pronouns unlike in English. For example in English, we have he, she and it. He is masculine, she is feminine, and it is neutral. For example: He is Andrew, she is Maria, it's a table. In arabic this does not apply. In arabic, you only have two kinds, masculine and feminine. This is not only unique to arabic but is also found in simitic languages as well. French also has the same commonality with arabic in this regard. Now the word Allah is masculine, not Allah himself, so this is why Allah uses huwa. There is also the fact she connotes gentleness, whereas he linguisticly connotes magisty so it is befitting of Allah to use the more loftier word.Third, the qur'an isnot man made. Can you bring your proof? If so, produce something like it if you are truthful. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620465/#p620465 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Hi,I think an issue with religion coming from a book, especially in most cases a very old and dated book, is that even if there were no contradictions in the book in question, since it is written in the format of a book it will almost always be open to some level of interpretation. one group of people will claim the text means one thing, whilst another group of people will claim the same thing means something totally different. I don’t want to detract from the main purpose of this topic which is GCW’s grandmother , my thoughts and I’d like to think the thoughts of many others are with both him and his grandmother. But in an attempt to divert this topic turning into a debate over who’s god is right or religion vs science, in an attempt to make people smile, my suggestion and something I think would have cleared up the whole religion thing back when the books were first written, is rather than writing it as a book, rather it should have simply just been written in the form of a contract or terms of business, to save any confusion, as an example:4.1 The soul:Each species or race named on page 1 of this contract will be awarded a single soul upon arrival in the world of their deities choosing. The soul is non-returnable and holds no cash value. The soul will be deemed the property of its recipient, upon termination of this contract the soul will be expected to be returned to the deity named on page 1, section 2 ‘The one true god’. Failure to return the soul in a similar condition to that which it was received, or without further enlightenment will result in an eternal torture above a fiery lake of sulphur. please note eternity refers to the end of times, or when George RR Martin finally finishes the winds of winter, whichever comes first (it is believed to be more likely the end of times). We recommend some simple steps you can take to help ensure your soul stays pure and in good condition: please see below:-regular preying and meditation will ensure you receive many years of enjoyment out of your newly aquired soul- going to your religions chosen place of worship as listed in section 2 ‘astral planes, premises and places of worship.-donating vast quantities of cash to paul Lemm, who also accepts payment in the form of alcohol, bit coin or tea.5 contacting usIn return for unquestioning believe and faith in the named deity , a line of communication will be open at all time via praying or meditation. However, should you not feel your question has received a sufficient sign, then you may also try contacting your local 24 hour customer service team, . The agents you speak to here will be happy answering any questions. With the following exceptions:- you may not specifically ask questions relating to the ‘great ineffable plan’- any Request for a new soul will be declined, any such request may prompt a detailed investigation into the current state of your soul or its whereabouts In the event the agent is unable to answer your question, they will raise a ticket directly with the named deity and you will receive your answer on arrival at the pearly gates on the day of termination of this contract.Yours faithfully The holy bureaucrat URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620449/#p620449 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god It's not just islam. Christians are far from innocent of extreamism. Every group of assholes has there turn. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620446/#p620446 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Well, people think that their god is the one true god, so they're not saying their god is necessarily better than yours, what they're actually saying is that your interpretation of what god is is wrong. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620445/#p620445 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @153, incorrect. It's an imperfect scripture because it was written by man to control the man and written by man to oppress the man. It is no revelation from any sort of imaginary all-powerful and omnipotent being. No wonder it's full of so much violent verses which provide ample justification for the fundamentalists to do what they do. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620437/#p620437 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god So Allah wrote it? Directly? Because if humans had any hand in it's writing, you can be assured they fucked something up, or changed something, to suit their own beliefs or for some other agenda. Not only that, but consider translations, in which meaning can be changed or lost. We’ve had over 1000 years to fuck up and pervert this holy book. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620430/#p620430 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god You can’t refer to god by male pronouns, say that he is not a male, then claim your holy book has no contradictions. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620432/#p620432 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god So he wrote it? Directly? Because if humans wrote it, you can be assured they fucked something up, or changed something, to suit their own beliefs or for some other agenda. Not only that, but consider translations, in which meaning can be changed or lost. We’ve had over 1000 years to fuck up and pervert this holy book. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620430/#p620430 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god So he wrote it? Directly? Because if humans wrote it, you can be assured they fucked something up, or changed something, to suit their own beliefs or for some other agenda. Not only that, but consider translations, in which meaning can be changed or lost. we’ve had over 1000 years to fuck up this holy book. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620430/#p620430 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Firstly, the Qur'an is not imperfect as it is the revilation of Allah himself. As I've said, if you read the qur'an with an open heart then you will realize this.Second, the qur'an does not teach Muslims to behead non Muslims. These groups llike Isis who act in this kind of manner choose to ignore qur'anic injunctions about peace. In fact, they are so out of touch so much that Muslims who even disagree with their ideas politely will be killed. They have nothing to do with Islam. So many many innocent Syrian rebels who were ro fight Assad's forces were even killed by these cowards. Consider these verses."And if they incline towards peace, you also incline to it.""Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteoustoward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly."So I think it is clear now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620428/#p620428 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god What gives your imperfect and flawed scripture power and right to declare eternal heaven for it's followers, and eternal hell/beheading/killing/persecution for nonbelievers? Just curious. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620414/#p620414 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god What gives your imperfect and flawed scripture power and right to declare eternal heaven for it's followers, or eternal hell/beheading/killing/persecution for nonbelievers. Just curious. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620414/#p620414 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Firstly, God is not a fat man in the sky. He is above his creation in a way that sutes him. Nothing of his creation can compare to him. The islamic conception of God is the most valid because it is most in conformity to him. For example, in Christianity you often hear Jesus is part of God, he is God, the sun of God, which is problematic because Jesus never said such a thing to begin with. You hear that jesus died on the cross. Well if Jesus is God and he died, that is problematic because God does not die so there is a big contradiction here. If you study the qur'an you will find there are no contradictions. It states that Allah is the one, who doesn't have a sun, wife or Husband. In fact he is not even a male. If a person reads the qur'an with propper context there are actually no contradictions. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620411/#p620411 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god I may as well ask this here. For those who believe that their God is the true God, what makes your fat man in the sky any more valid than my fat man in the sky, or vice versa? How is your god, goddess, earth mother, former president, some combination of the above, or what ever the fuck special. Ask this and things begin to fall a part, because the chances of your god being the true god when there are countless others, is kind of low. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620402/#p620402 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Firstly, several responses.1. My response was not at all harsh, neither did I say anything bad about your Grandmother. Second, I respect everyon'es beliefs. Third, and this is a clarification, I'm not trying to convert anyone, because it's honestly not my job to do that.GCW I an not a fanatic - we all have the right to our own beliefs so where's the problem? The fact of the matter is we are all going to be tested by Allah whether we like it or not. Whatsoever Allah does is correct because he is perfect in his essence and attributes. Just look at how kind he is to you, he enables you to use your hands to type, your legs to walk, your brain to think. Look at how he provides for the birds and everything in the heavens and the earth. We have to accept that when it comes to the wisdom of Allah, our knowledge is not even as much as a bird dipping its beak into the water. You should always remember that there are people suffering even worse than your Grandmother. I recently lost my Grandfather, but I do feel comfort in the fact that Allah decreed the best for him. And perhaps your Grandmother might recover, Allah only knows, and she might be a much stronger person! And consider the rewards of paradise.I have pasted part of article for your benefit. Again, not trying to convert anyone - just giving information!Allah, the Exalted, says:block quote"Truly, the muttaqun (the pious and righteous persons) will be amidst Gardens and water-springs (Jannah). (It will be said to them): 'Enter therein (Jannah),in peace and security.' And We shall remove from their breasts any deep feeling of bitterness (that they may have). (So they will be like) brothers facingeach other on thrones. No sense of fatigue shall touch them, nor shall they (ever) be asked to leave it."content information— Al-Qur'an 15:45-48content information endblock quote endblock quote"(It will be said to the believers of Islamic Monotheism): 'My slaves! No fear shall be on you this Day, nor shall you grieve. (You) who believed in Ourayat (proofs, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and were Muslims (i.e., who submit totally to Allah's Will, and believe in the Oneness of Allah).Enter Jannah, you and your wives, in happiness.' Trays of gold and cups will be passed round them; (there will be) therein all that inner-selves coulddesire, and all that eyes could delight in and you will abide therein forever. This is the Jannah which you have been made to inherit because of your deedswhich you used to do (in the life of the world). Therein for you will be fruits in plenty, of which you will eat (as you desire)."content information— Al-Qur'an 43:68-73content information endblock quote endblock quote"Verily, the muttaqun (the pious), will be in place of security (Jannah). Among Gardens and springs dressed in fine silk and (also) in thick silk, facingeach other. So (it will be). And We shall marry them to hur (fair females) with wide, lovely eyes. They will call therein for every kind of fruit in peaceand security. They will never taste death therein except the first death (of this world), and He will save them from the torment of the blazing Fire. Asa bounty from your Rabb! That will be the supreme success!"content information— Al-Qur'an 44:51-57content information endblock quote endblock quote"Verily, al-abrar (the pious and righteous) will be in Delight (Jannah). On thrones, looking (at all things). You will recognise in their faces the brightnessof delight. They will be given to drink of pure sealed wine. The last thereof (that wine) will be the smell of musk, and for this let (all) those strivewho want to strive (i.e., hasten earnestly to the obedience of Allah). It (that wine) will be mixed with tasnim. A spring whereof drink those nearest toAllah."content information— Al-Qur'an 83:22-28content information endblock quote endThe Qur'anic ayat on the subject are many and well-known.Jabir, may Allah be pleased with him, reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him, said:block quote"The inhabitants of Jannah will eat and drink therein, but they will not have to pass excrement, to blow their noses or to urinate. Their food will bedigested producing belch which will give out a smell like that of musk. They will be inspired to declare the freedom of Allah from imperfection and proclaimHis Greatness as easily as you breathe."content information— Muslimcontent information endblock quote endCommentary: Belching the vapours of musk means that after meals one would not feel heaviness and acidity. On the other hand, the belch will give out scentedair, and the food will be digested by it. There will be no excrement or urine there.Secondly, recitation of Allah's Name will ever remain on their tongues without the least effort like the way we breathe, without any effort whatsoever.In other words the food in Jannah would be so light
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god So, oddly enough I had a conversation yesterday with a friend about a similar topic. I wasn't thinking of this thread when this came up btw, but after the conversation my mind did jump back here and made me think of GCW's grandma.The person I was talking to is at least somewhat religious. I don't know her well enough to know exactly how she practices, but I know she feels God is very important and worship is a big part of her life. I didn't outright come out and say I don't believe in such a thing, though I'm sure by the way I have spoken in the past, or how I didn't respond to her comments about worship, she could figure my stance out.Anyway, she told me that she believes life is fair, you just have to understand the purpose of events and adjust your thoughts. Which goes against all of my beliefs. Life had a nasty way of being unpredictable, and i don't believe we as human beings should have our powers of interpretation stretched to such a degree that we justify anything cruel that is out of our hands, in the name of faith. For me, a death is always cruel, whether committed by murder or by natural cause. Even predictable death has an element of unfairness to it for those who are close to the deceased.An example of my feelings on the matter: A few years ago we had to put down a lovely dog we had. Not because he was dying, but because his back was irreparably out of whack and couldn't be fixed. As a result, he could barely walk. Our vet was surprised he was able to remain on his feet for as long as he had. It would've cost thousands of dollars to attempt major back surgery, and since he was so old, it just wasn't worth it (he was 15 or 16). So, he lived a good life, and we didn't think it was worth having him suffer through the remainder of it.Now, I'm not a big dog person, but I do respect animal lives, and for a while, I couldn't get past the fact that this of all things was what had to kill him. He was healthy otherwise; had his back been better, he would've still been running around, barking way too much at the neighbor's dogs and generally being annoying, but that's what made him who he was. Maybe i'm being optimistic, but until the very end, I feel like he had the desire to be his old self. He still had some drive left. During the last weeks of his life though, he could hardly walk. He'd still bark halfheartedly when he heard other dogs, but he couldn't run and provoke them like he usually did. Therefore I thought the decision to put him down was a bit premature; I didn't think the dog was quite ready yet. But my mom saw more than I did, so maybe she could see he was giving up. I wasn't there when he was put down, but apparently my mom could tell that he somehow knew his death was coming, and he seemed ready for it. So, maybe he had given up after all but was just being a trooper. It wouldn't have surprised me.For a while, I felt like we gave up on the animal more than it gave up on us. I mean in the end it probably doesn't matter, his life would either have been cut short by something else eventually, probably sooner rather than later. And it's very possible that if we had waited a week or two, he would've given up on his own anyway. That in fact was very likely, given how quickly his ability to walk had deteriorated. These facts helped me accept the decision when it was made, but it did bother me that his death was deliberate.The strange part of this is that deliberately inducing death wasn't what bothered me most at the time. That's only part of it. What was hardest for me to take was that his life was cut short by a non-lethal issue. I suppose that's because I have a selfish curiosity. When people or animals die, I want to know the cause of death, because I like medical knowledge, and am a bit morbid sometimes. So, if he died of heart complications, I would've been satisfied. If he had given up and stopped eating, I would've said "Sure, makes sense." But a bad back? That doesn't kill, it doesn't make sense medically. It only makes sense if you put the emotional element in there, the thing that activates our compassion and sympathies. Maybe it's an autism thing, but as much as I'm able to understand the deciion and agree with it, there's still some sort of gap in there I have to step over in order to get firm footing if that makes sense. I haven't quite worded it like that before, but I'm also a little more confident at the keyboard than I am speaking, so yeah. I imagine most people will find me at least a little strange for thinking of it that way, if not heartless.In the case of GCW's grandma, it's different. Not only is she mercilessly left hanging on through pain, but her mind is even caught halfway between being able to or not being able to decide if she's ready for death. The flip side of this, though, is that intervention or not, she will eventually die of her ailments. Dimentia and cancer are both ruthless killers and one will
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @145For what it's worth I don't "accept science" in that way, nor do most other actual atheists. Science doesn't have the answers yet. It probably will eventually, but until then I don't go seek religious explanations because every time religion has come into contact with science, science has won. For the really big questions--do we have a soul--there's very compelling concrete evidence otherwise. But for all the stuff we don't know, reputable scientists will just say "we don't know yet". To use your language, "believing science" is merely requiring actual proof for things rather than just taking whoever's word for it, not making up answers from nowhere to fill holes, and producing experimental results that can be reliably reproduced.Don't lump scientists and people who understand science in with the covid-19 zealot crowd. Most of us hate Fauci for deciding to play politics with the science for the sake of getting people to comply with things like mask mandates, for one thing. He could have told the truth and still had people complying, and all the back and forth wouldn't have eroded the credibility of everyone involved. And don't even get me started on how we could have had vaccines in 2 months if people had bothered to get out of the way and stop riding the ethics high horse (I will scream challenge trials until the end of time at this point, but no one will ever listen).But to circle back to my "you're probably born an atheist" point: you just treated science like a religion. Atheism is a lack of belief, not a belief in something else. Almost no one is able to understand how someone can just not believe in things. It's very easy to say "some people don't believe in things unless there's evidence" and know that to be true, but quite another thing to understand it when you say it.What we miss out on is false comfort. It's false comfort that's as good as true comfort because if you make up reasons you have to have a soul and all these other capacities that are somehow unique to humans because humans are special and you have the ability to maintain that belief, then you get to have a higher purpose and stuff like that, and death isn't the end and so on. But to the atheist, to the scientists, it matters that the things we believe actually be true and not just pulled out of the air. Once you care about truth--not "we all have different truths" truth but actual "someone has to be right because it's either yes or no to these questions" truth--you can no longer maintain those constructs. It's a really strong placebo effect: like if you could believe in the fire when you're cold, and somehow that keeps you warm, but only until you notice that the fire doesn't exist, at which point you can't ever un-notice that the fire doesn't exist anymore. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620292/#p620292 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @GCW, Actually the important question would be? where do you turn when you are faced with great adversity, when suffering takes you by the throwt, and smashes you in to the cleaf of your own self? Is it science? Is it religion? Or may be it is poetry? Once I prised philosophy, now I am not sure if may be let's say a street cleaner isn't better then Kant.If you want to talk send me a pm. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620289/#p620289 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @GCW, Actually the important question would be? where do you turn when you are faced with great adversity, when suffering takes you by the throwt, and smashes you in to the cleaf of your own self? Is it science? Is it religion? Or may be it is poetry? Once I prised philosophy, now I am not sure if may be let's say a street cleaner isn't better then Kant. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620289/#p620289 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-05
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god I do really think you miss out on a wider array of possibilities when you only accept science. COVID-19 has spawned a bunch of left wing science proponents who don't know the first thing about it, but shout, "Believe science" at the top of their lungs. To me, that's as stupid as anti-vaxers and anti-maskers. Science isn't a colt, it can answer some of your questions, but not all. We're still very much in the active process of discovery. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620286/#p620286 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Hey OP, I'm really sorry for what you, and your grandma of course, are going through. This world, God, whatever, it can all be very cruel.And of all the posts in this discussion, I find 141 to be the most spot on from my perspective.I guess my beliefs are ore agnostic in nature. I lean toward believing in something, only because I've experienced things in my life that would lead me to believe something has extremely positive influence over my existence. I know, I know, everyone says that. But I don't care if people side with me or not. I know what I've experienced, and I know what I believe.But time and time again, I see people of religion falter because of their blind followings. And some are actually intellects, people who actually study science, with PhDs and all. Similarly, I've seen people of science, too unwilling to accept that even some things can't be explained, falter at the hands of their arrogance.You can get philosophical about this. You can get scientific about this. You can even study high degrees of theology. But at the end of the day, what really counts is how you handle being challenged by others' beliefs.All this science vs religion vs other stuff. I honestly think it's ridiculous.They each have benefits. Proving, disproving, theories, axioms, etc.We're all just here to figure it out. Yes, science has a bit of an upper hand in that regard. But that doesn't mean science can answer everything. And if you really think that, well, that's just too bad and I am truly sorry you feel that way. Likewise for religion. If someone actually thinks that religion is unwavering in its teachings, and you absolutely reject everything else, again, that's just too bad.But I think some of us are too smart for that. I'd like to believe we offer acceptance and critical thinking.Anyway, for what it's worth, I still appreciate a good back and forth every once in a while. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620230/#p620230 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god 138 is what you get when you've lost yourself to fanaticism. First, she's christian, not muslim. Second, neither she nor I have ever said that the christian religion or concept of god is better than any other religion, but 138 basically said islam is better than christianity. Then the test angle. I get how losing your job and making you find another one could be a test. You have to push yourself out of your comfort zone. I even get how losing someone could be a test, because you have to move on despite the pain. But to put them through this kind of pain and suffering before you take them? I'm not sorry to say, but I am not following a god that does that. It's cruelty without purpose. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620215/#p620215 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @141, the problem is that there is no such thing as an absolute truth. I respect the opinions of others, and I acknowledge that when talking about any one subject I may not have all the information and/or maybe incorrect, and I'm perfectly fine with someone pointing that out to me. The difference between religion and science, as I see it, is that science does something about what they're told: they try to prove it. Science doesn't just go "I'm going to tell you that this is how gravity works and therefore it must be so". They actually experiment and test the theory to see if its accurate. There's some verification and research going on. Rligion has none of that: if your told to believe something, your expected to fall in line and believe it and not ask any questions. If you do, you'll get vague answers that don't really tell you anything, or you'll be punished. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620198/#p620198 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god I have many thoughts and opinions on this hole religion topic. It's one I find quite complicated for various reasons, most of which I'd rather not get into on here. I will say this though, and this is directed towards both sides of this debate. Please be tolerant of other people's opinions. If you're strictly science is the answer, atheism, all that, respect the fact that not everyone agrees with you, and actually you may not even be entirely correct. Likewise on the other side of the coin, if you believe strongly in God, or gods, plural, respect the fact that not everyone agrees with you, what you find comforting may not necessarily be considered comforting to others, and actually may be rather hurtful to them, and also that, once again, you may not be correct. Your way is not the absolute truth, the true way, or any other variation there of, no matter how sure you might be that it is. Be mindful of other people. If a person is telling you about a situation such as this and has so clearly expressed anti religious anything sentiments, it aught to be considered common courtesy to maybe not, like, jump in with your but God is the answer sentiments URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620193/#p620193 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @139Cruel, yes. A very common belief shared even by most Christians, yes. People get comfort from that believe it or not. You can pass the test, if it's a test, and if you get an A you go to heaven (or go to better heaven, or spend less time in heaven learning what you did wrong in life, or...).When I say that we would solve more problems without religion this is a big part of what I'm referring to. But I guess we could also solve it if we made people such as @138 reframe the test as "hey, maybe we should figure out how to not have any suffering, maybe it's actually a test to see if we can eliminate this kind of pain", rather than some medieval bear the torture and it will bring you closer to god who can apparently only be appeased by pain. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620186/#p620186 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @138, that has to be one of the most cruel posts I've seen on here -- "Hey, guys, your grandmothers and family members are suffering incredibly painful, all so that God/ can test you!" Hate to be so harsh but what the fuck, dude? GCW's grandmother is suffering constantly every day, and I can't even imagine what she's going through, and you think that its some kind of test? That's so fucked up, man. And so, so twisted and heartless. And people wonder why religion is an anathema to me... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620179/#p620179 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god GCW, my reply to your post.1. All of us have been created by Allah, the wise, the kind, the generous, the noble, and that is for one purpose. To worship Allah, may he be glorified and exaulted, in the best way ever. As Allah says in the qur'an: "And I have not created the jinn and the mankind accept they should worship me alone." Surah ad-dariat. Just look at how noble this is! You get to prostrate to him, ask him for your hearts lawful desire, beg of him, magnify him, what else could you want? And guess what, you don't need Jesus to intervene on your behalf, because in Islam Allah has given you the ability to talk to him alone, in any language you wish. You want to be a medical Doctor? You can say, "Oh Allah, make me a medical Doctor, please I beg of you!" You want to be guided to truth, just ask him! As Allah says in thequr'an: "186. And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad ) concerning Me, then (answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge). I respond to the invocationsof the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright."Just look at the meaning of this! In this beautiful verse, Allah says that he is near - the arabic word is kareeb and it's only used in the context of supplication just to show how near Allah is to his servants in his knowledge! Usually, when Allah wants the prophet to say something, he would usually use the word in the beginning "kul - say." "94. Say to (them): "If the home of the Hereafter with Allah is indeed for you specially and not for others, of mankind, then long for death if you aretruthful." However, in the first verse of the qur'an I quoted, the fact is Allah is so near to his creation it doesn't even require the format "say." Whenever you read the qur'an, you always take it as though Allah is addressing you. He is telling you simply ask me and I am there for you! One of his atributes is ar-raoof which means the kind.Second, perhaps this old Lady is being tested with this disease. As part of Allah's kindness, he tests people with hardship in order for them to draw closer to him! We have to remember tribulations are like a bitter medicine, though we may not like them, they still better us, just like a bitter medicine does even though you don't like its taste. You have to realize Allah in his perfection is still taking care of this Lady. And you know what Allah says about the patient people? Read the translation and ponder. "153. O you who believe! Seek help in patience and As-Salat (the prayer). Truly! Allah is with As-Sabirin (the patient ones, etc.).154. And say not of those who are killed in the Way of Allah, "They are dead." Nay, they are living, but you perceive (it) not.155. And certainly, We shall test you with something of fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives and fruits, but give glad tidings to As-Sabirin (the patientones, etc.).156. Who, when afflicted with calamity, say: "Truly! To Allah we belong and truly, to Him we shall return."157. They are those on whom are the Salawat (i.e. blessings, etc.) (i.e. who are blessed and will be forgiven) from their Lord, and (they are those who)receive His Mercy, and it is they who are the guided-ones." So be of good cheer! All this Lady has to do is to say "La illaha illalah" before the angel of death comes and she will be on a good track to earn Allah's mercy, when the angels come down with bright faces and take her soul ever so gently out of her body to the one who shows the most mercy even more than a Mother child. Allah is more kind with us than we can imagine. I suggest you listen to the Qur'an, you can also read the translated meanings. i will give you a few short recitations, listen and let your heart be calmed, show these to this old Lady that she may be guided aright.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZdqFdRn7KU=133sThis is surah saba, type in surah saba english translation.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SmGTrTFbzEThis surah maryam - it's an especially read for Christians as well. This is chapter 19.The third is surah rahman, chapter 55: This may be especially relevant to you and this old Lady who is quite ill may Allah cure her, grant her a long life full of goodness and guide her to the true way!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLwbtREU2UYMy honest request for you is to read the whole qur'an, because the islamic conception of God is much more clear, much more valisd and rational than Christianity. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620144/#p620144 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @136, that particular post didn't say that. He said that previously, though, because its true. Some people are just incapable of looking at reality without introducing an element of religious context into it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620052/#p620052 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-04
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @134, why do you say that some people aren't capable of atheism? Your example is very pertinent. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620048/#p620048 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-04
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @134 why do you say that some people aren't capable of atheist? Your example is very pertinent. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620048/#p620048 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god This has to be the strangest explanation as to why telekinesis is possible I've ever seen.https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog … s-possible URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620045/#p620045 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Ok, again, gay rainbow unicorns. I believe in gay rainbow unicorns. If science is supposed to disprove everything, then please tell me how to disprove gay rainbow unicorns?You can't start from the assumption that something is true and then prove it false. Maybe gay rainbow unicorns are only found on the surface of neutron stars in the Andromeda galaxy. As long as I start from the assumption that gay rainbow unicorns must exist, science can't disprove them. Sometimes science can, for example if I said "gay rainbow unicorns can be found in Central Park in new York City on Tuesdays at noon".If you want me to take back my comment about how I think people here are intentionally avoiding understanding science to hold onto their beliefs, explain how psionics is different? Every time science disproves it, the bar just gets moved: maybe it can't be done in the lab because the instruments somehow destroy it, maybe you have to be holding the spoon for the mental energies to connect, and so on. I say what I'm saying about intentionally ignoring science because even the most religious schools out there--the crazy cultish ones--teach you why this kind of argument is bad sometime in middle school. You have to explicitly decide to ignore what is literally the most basic thing in science or any type of argument where one side must be correct to maintain the argument about psionics and other mental powers. It's only in the realm of philosophy, where there is no objective truth, that you get to use other structures. And even there, it's frowned on.I have less of a problem with religion as a whole in this regard because religious people don't literally move the bar a couple weeks after each experiment rather than accepting the results. The religion stuff at least takes a generation to shift the bar. They shouldn't be moving the bar because that's bad arguing, but they're at least not going "hahaha, science, time to purposely move the bar, here's my blog post with something quantum interference can't measure it something something" a few days after the papers come out. They don't argue properly, but they at least *try*. maybe that will change as science continues moving faster, I don't know.But the psionics stuff, you have to actively not look to believe in it. You have to actively ignore the most basic tenants of science. You have to actively not google things like "why is telekinesis impossible". The only way to believe in it is to be incredibly gullible, be incredibly uneducated, or actively work to avoid trying to find out if you're right about it.Provide me a way for science to actively disprove gay rainbow unicorns that I can't counter with an argument along the lines of what the mental powers people use and I'll take it back. Until then, I stand by this viewpoint. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620034/#p620034 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @132, it may have not been discredited but, again, its ridiculously to improperly run an experiment and get improper results. And its not up to science to disprove something. We do it, like I said. But the majority of the time, if you tell me that something is real, its your job to prove it, not mine to disprove it. You can reference as many articles as you like, but that doesn't actually mean that your correct. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/620023/#p620023 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @Ethin: that paper was not discredited, either. Not to mention so many references to other publications, many of them leading to PubMed or NCBI articles. Here's what I want to know. Isn't NCBI a reliable source to read research publications? Why would they host pseudoscientific stuff if they're considered reliable? But you and @camlorn totally nailed it. It might very well be pseudoscientific, can't deny the possibility of that. Except, of course, @camlorn: minus the ad hominem. .@GCW, man, I am too skeptical to fully believe your experiences, but too openminded to fully reject them outright as well. You and @mastodont especially talk about stuff which on the subjective level is experienced by many over the millennia so there's that. Even though there are stark similarities, subjectivity can't be made the basis for objective, nonbiased rationalistic enquiry. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619924/#p619924 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @Ethin: that paper was not discredited, either. But you and @camlorn totally nailed it. It might very well be pseudoscientific, can't deny the possibility of that. Except, of course, @camlorn: minus the ad hominem. .@GCW, man, I am too skeptical to fully believe your experiences, but too openminded to fully reject them outright as well. You and @mastodont especially talk about stuff which on the subjective level is experienced by many over the millennia so there's that. Even though there are stark similarities, subjectivity can't be made the basis for objective, nonbiased rationalistic enquiry. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619924/#p619924 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-04
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Science doesn't work like that and it doesn't concern with that. Religion very strange stuf in there. Now the question is what is that whitch streches between science and religion, but touches none? What is the line that neither goes to the boundryes of science, neither falls in to religion? I can tell you that if it comes to push and such, we are all surrounded by unknown. Absolute truth, oh nbut every truth tired of itself consumates like a bird in midfight. such truth are allways former errors, Any mistake is a former truth. But there is no initial one, because the distance between truth and error is marked only by the pulsation, by the inner animation, by the secret rhythm. Thus, error is a truth that has no soul, a worn-out truth that is waiting to be vitalized.Truths die psychologically, not formally; they maintain their validity, continuing the non-life of the forms, although they may no longer be valid for anyone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619888/#p619888 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god There's this amazing BBC Radio 4 comedy called Old Harry's Game who stars Satan as the main character.In it, we get an interesting view of Christianity that I find refreshing and don't see too often.In it, Satan is basically the antihero that a good amount of the time tries doing the right thing even if it is for all the wrong reasons.god, meanwhile, is a tired cranky old man that accidentally created the universe and got saddled with it by virtue of there not being anyone else to deal with it.In the series, god's all-knowingness is often questioned, even by god himself. There is a notable point when he visits hell feeling depressed because his omniscience means he never experiences surprises anymore. One of hell's denizens asks him if he was omniscient, how did he not see his boredom / depression coming, which fills him with joy because he realizes he can still be surprised.Satan and his minions also often point out that god's omniscience isn't as omni as it once was.This conversation has built up a lot of tension, so I thought I'd bring this up and share an amusing little clip from the show.during this clip, creation has broken down to the point where a dog and a baby accidentally ended up in hell, so Satan has gone on a quest to find god and talk him into restoring order once more.Unfortunately, he finds him uninterested in doing anything, as he's too busy painting the beautiful world he created.Anyway, for those of you interested, the link can be found here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619884/#p619884 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @GCW: I'm sorry that you and your family are going through what you're going through. I hope your grandmother doesn't have to suffer for too much longer, as cruel as that sounds.My spiritual beliefs are pretty simple. I have meditative in the past and can parts of my body (mainly my hands, chest and head) to tingle. that tingling sensation makes me feel at piece and brings a strange weight to it. sometimes it feels like it has taken over my breathing and I'm no longer in control of that particular process.If any of you have ever taken psychedelics, you may know what I'm talking about.does this state of being grant me psychic powers? I very much doubt it. However, it makes me feel at peace with myself and helps me deal with the stress that comes with living my life.I'm confident that most devout religious people tap into whatever this is at some point. maybe it's god, or maybe it's the universe, or maybe it's our divine selves. It could also just be some weird chemical process that goes on in our brain.The source of it is irrelevant to me. Whatever it is provides a measurable increase in my quality of life, and that in itself is all that matters. If I die and earn some sort of reward for improving my spiritual attunement to the universe, then great! If I die and cease to exist, then I won't be aware enough to care about whether it was beneficial or not in the long run. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619882/#p619882 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : mechaSkyGuardian via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god about what you’re saying camlorn I feel like in the future stuff like mine control and all of that will be possible with technology. It wouldn’t surprise me, in the past couple decades we’ve seen things that we’ve considered science-fiction become real URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619876/#p619876 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @camlorn and ethin you are probably right, I haven't fully considdered all aspects of it, I guess this happens when I try to write something coherent before drinking my cofee. I am always open to new possibilities that's why I keep asking and researching this stuff in hopes that one day what I experienced could be proven somehow. If you do a google search on the matter, the only actual experiment that comes up is the one I linked to. So it probably was something wrong with it if they didn't pursue the matter further.Quantum phisics looks promising though, it seems to defy the laws of phisics in ways that we can't fully comprehend yet and whatever is happening during these experiences it has to be linked to how the matter works at a quantum level. I keep wondering how further can science go? I mean, quantum particles must have some components, some even smaller things that make it work, perhaps there is an even deeper level that we simply aren't aware of yet. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619873/#p619873 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Ok, so science doesn't work that way, as established.And here's why. Humans emit in the infrared. Being able to emit more or less in the infrared is something you can control even without meditation because it's a function of body heat. Get embarrassed, take a cold shower, exercise, and so on and it'll shift.SO here is how a "emits in the UV spectrum" can get screwed up. Someone involved accidentally sets one apparatus to the infrared spectrum. You do your entire experiment. No one notices. You publish your cool paper. Oops.Now you're going to say "but surely someone would disprove that", but here's the thing about science. These sorts of "humans have weird energy" experiments have been going on for basically as long as the scientific method, and they never, ever replicate. Same for "I can bend things with my mind", and so on.Scientists would love to knock down this pseudoscience bullshit by trying to replicate it one claim at a time and find the mistakes. It's very satisfying emotionally. But it's going to cost $1 to fail to replicate "meditation lets us emit in the UV spectrum" and so on. There's literally tens of thousands of claims like it a year. You can only do that for so long. You have to spend your resources effectively. Once there's mountains of evidence against something that also has no explanation that fits with anything in biology or physics and you've failed to replicate over and over, there's no point. It's a waste of resources. If you believe in this stuff and are like "what evidence?" you haven't looked. It's one Google search away. The scientists can either be busy participating in unreplicated pseudoscience or solving things like covid, not both.Science is equipped to accept psychic energy. Unlike those of you who have decided to torture science into something that matches your worldview, those of us who get it don't raise the bar. Get your weird UV experiment or whatever to replicate with someone more reputable than who first ran it. You're not going to jump it straight to MIT. But if it works, you should be able to get some small university lab or something to replicate, and then they say "huh, this worked for us, let's publish and see if someone else can make it work", and then maybe another couple small universities do it, and so on. The reason that science doesn't accept psychic energy and stuff is that as soon as whoever makes the claim replicates it a couple times, someone else has always found the mistake--for instance, the people who can bend spoons always turn out to be allowed to hold the spoon with their hand.And the thing is, you're probably like "but come on, do you actually believe that? They'll just laugh it out of the room even if you did have replication". I believe it because science *did* try. Psychic energies was an open question in the 1950s or so, give or take, right alongside "can LSD let us mind control people?" and many other things. Science approached these questions with a 'we don't know", just as good science approaches everything, and then the answer turned out to be "no", proven by tons and tons of people running experiments like this that failed to replicate. And then the question was closed. If it's going to be reopened, someone needs to find something that (1) replicates and (2) isn't explained by physics and biology.But I'm really not sure why I'm bothering, since I'm pretty sure the people making these claims on here are intentionally misunderstanding science, or at least intentionally avoiding learning more for fear that their belief in whatever mystical flavor of the week will get crushed by this little thing we call objective reality. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619872/#p619872 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god To be fully clear here, I recognize that science does not know everything. There are tons and tons of things we have observed, and which completely bust most people's brains. Want an example? Take a deep dive into quantum states sometime. I'm willing to accept that there might be more to us than science has yet proven. I don't know what, and I would need proof, but it's not impossible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619871/#p619871 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @123, the problem with that argument is that science just doesn't work like that. Its not the job of the rest of the scientists out there to disprove something that a a scientist or pseudoscientist says. Oh, they do it, like for psychics, but generally when you come up with a theory the onus is on you to prove it. And you have to prove it multiple times too. You can't just prove it once and assume that its proven; it requires multiple trials to ensure that your proof wasn't a fluke. Then it requires peer review, and probably some other things, before it will officially be accepted by the remaining scientific community. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619869/#p619869 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @122 but has anyone tried to disprove this experiment by trying a similar one? As far as google helped me I couldn't find another experiment that focuses on UV light emited by people in deep states of meditation. If it would be such a shock for humanity then why hasn't anyone tried to replicate it? Maybe because nobody cares that much, or someone would surely love to prove it false. Actually, I saw about this fenomenon on a tv show, on history channel, or discovery science, can not remember exactly. it was about a man that was very skilled at meditation. And when they examined the light emited by his body they observed a huge growth in emissions when he was meditating, just as in this experiment. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619860/#p619860 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @113As Ethin so elequantly pointed out in the post above, I am afraid a single study with a clear bias isn't going to revolutionize science. On Rhine Research Centers website, at the very top of the page, it says "Building a bridge between science and spirituality" or something simular, which I think is a giant red flag. When they on there page basically admits to having a preset goal that they are working to prove, it just doesn't really cut it for me. That is like all the creationist sites that host there own journals so they can claim to be scientific.It doesn't help, that I couldn't find any other simular studies done by more credible sources either. If it actually worked and produced real results, you wouldn't have to go to some obviously bias website posting there own scientific journal. Something this potentially important would probably be brought in every single one of the scientific papers on biology, medicin neuroscience and probably physics and many other fields.@114Oh, please do! Or even better, seek them out. As said, there is fame, money, a great leap in our understanding of the world as well as possibly making the world a better place, if you can prove it. No one has won the James Randy Challenge yet though, and it has run for many years. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619834/#p619834 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @113As Ethin so elequantly pointed out in the post above, I am afraid a single study with a clear bias isn't going to revolutionize science. On Rhine Research Centers website, at the very top of the page, it says "Building a bridge between science and spirituality" or something simular, which I think is a giant red flag. When they on there page basically admits to having a preset goal that they are working to prove, it just doesn't really cut it for me. That is like all the creationist sites that host there own journals so they can claim to be scientific.It doesn't help, that I couldn't find any other simular studies done by more credible sources either. If it actually worked and produced real results, you wouldn't have to go to some obviously bias website posting there own scientific journal. Something this potentially important would probably be brought in every single one of the scientific papers on biology, medicin neuroscience and probably physics and many other fields. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619834/#p619834 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @GauravSharma, Those are nice research papers and all But... has anyone actually managed to reproduce the results? The supposed control of the ANS, or being able to rotate something using the mind... I certainly wouldn't trust that paper unless it had actually been proven to not be pseudoscientific. Because that paper certainly sounds like pseudoscience to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619824/#p619824 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @mads: I am pasting a research paper here, and two things I'll copy here from the paper:from the heading "Control of Autonomic Responses":In early research Green and Green (1977) assessed under laboratory conditions the capacity to control autonomic responses. In an initial trial Swami Rama an expert meditator with 30 years' experience increased the temperature difference between the left and right sides of his hand after 3 min to 11F apart (neural controls over the radial and ulnar arteries in the wrist are located within a few millimeters of each other in the central nervous system). In a second experiment on demand the subject stopped his heart from pumping blood for 16 s, with no detectable pulse (other than an atrial flutter on the EKG) before returning heart rate back to baseline with no ill effects.Benson et al. (1982) studied subjects practicing the Tibetan Buddhist meditational practice g-tummo (heat) and found they had the capacity to increase the temperature of their fingers and toes (a prophylactic to frostbite) by as much as 8.3°C. In a more recent follow up study of this phenomenon, Kozhevnikov et al. (2013) reported reliable increases in axillary temperature from the normal range (37.5°C) up to 38.3°C among g-tummo meditators accompanied by increases in alpha, beta, and gamma power. What is unusual about the above research results is that not only are homeostatic mechanisms normally controlled by the central nervous system, but in the case of the g-tummo temperature regulation findings, the detectors of heat and effectors for changing temperature are located in the extremities (e.g., the hands and feet) and are not set up as a reflex mechanism to be overridden by cognitive commands. Such unexplainable evidence that the mind can have direct influence over physical mechanisms normally outside our control is a possible indicator of the capability for telekinesis (remote control of physical systems) in the Buddhist system of supernormal abilities.from the heading called "paranormal":In another experiment by Green and Green (1977) expert meditator Swami Rama was assessed under laboratory conditions to mentally move an object without exerting any physical force. Wearing a face mask and sitting six feet away to prevent any effects of airflow, Rama recited a mantra, and after a loud exclamation and a word of command, the needle rotated ten degrees toward him. This was replicated twice in the presence of six medical doctors and experimental scientists.here is the paper30 years of intensive practice just to develop such stuff? nah, not worth it, IMHO. life is too short for such things. although if there is a remote chance of getting what Buddhists call divine eye, or clairvoyance, and divine ear or clairaudience, some time out might help blind and people suffering from hearing loss. not to mention there's claims of you getting to see and hear stuff in other realms of existence inaccessible to the normal 5 senses which would actually be cool if it's true. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619791/#p619791 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Yes. This is why I could accept a godlike power or being if it ever showed itself, but it's also why I repudiate any of our current understandings of god. There's too much hypocrisy and too many double standards.Someone (I misremember who, and am too lazy to dig through this thread again) made the point that suffering is one of the things that makes us human. Even if I grant that this is at least partially true - but let's replace suffering with adversity here - does that mean all suffering, at all times, is necessary? Because, again, I gotta tell ya, that's kind of not a good thing to say. Unless my brother had turned out to be a sexual predator or a serial killer or something - which, by the way, he showed absolutely no signs of being before he died - I can say with 100% certainty that my family would have been fuller and happier with him still alive. And he died fast! He just happened to do it young. GCW's grandmother is another good example. If suffering makes us human, then apparently not suffering makes us inhuman in some fashion? Sounds pretty ridiculous when you put it that way, doesn't it? Since, after all, what you're saying is that in some way, GCW's grandmother's suffering is necessary. Do me a favour and don't tell him that. Or her. And especially don't imply that either or both of them are less than human because they want that suffering to end.As I've said before, adversity can make us stronger. It teaches us how to deal with failure, with unexpected challenges. If there was a god, I would not want him to simply solve every single problem purely because he could. I would want him to start with the worst of our problems, then work up from there. If the Christian god is so loving, it would be the absolute least he could do, since, after all, Canlorn's characterization of all-powerful is spot on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619802/#p619802 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
2021-03-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god You can even go to church, you can develop a one on one relationship with god, but unless you give your life over to him, it's all for nothing.I have had such experiences as what you might call supernatural. messing around with energy that exists in the universe. Whether you call it reiki or some other name, I know that this energy exists and can be manipulated, but I also know that I am not disciplined enough to do it consistently. Not only that, but bad things often happen when I try, and I've therefore decided not to continue. I'll provide some examples.It's somewhere between late summer and early autumn in 2016. I'm at my grandma's house, but I'm not living there yet. I'm laying in the middle of the floor, the top half of me in the dining room, the bottom half in the living room. Above my torso is the doorway. Now, even though my vision has deteriorated, my ability to conjure mental images has not. If I know what something looks like, I will be able to imagine it. That's what I did, I created a mental image of the arch over me. Then I concentrated on two things: Ropes hanging down from the arch and pulling me upward, and a platform under me pushing me up.At the moment when the thoughts I was cultivating reached their peak, two things happened in sequence. I felt an incredibly powerful jerk, even though my body was not moving. Then the mental image of the arch got super super sharp, then collapsed. It was so real that I had to look around to make sure it was only in my mind.Another time, I would say probably close to a year later when my grandpa was in the hospital, I decided to try to heal him remotely. If you know about these things, you know that time and space are of no consequence when you're working with energy. I used a mantra that someone had given me, and I put my concentration into finding him, latching onto him, then collecting the energy into myself and finally, channeling it through me into him. It did not work until it did. I felt the connection, and then I felt myself being drained through it. I felt like my essence was being drained away, and then the fear kicked in. I knew that if I couldn't break the connection, I would die. Now, I don't get genuinely scared over much, but that time, I was. It was hard to push it aside and try to break the connection, but somehow, I managed.I also had a very sharp, sudden, flash of insight about him. When I went to see him, he wasn't doing well. His heart was in a bad rhythm and they were trying to correct it using various medications, and it wasn't working. They told us that their only option was to page cardiology and have them come down and use a defibrillator on him, but doing so at his age carried a significant risk that his heart would not restart. My brother and I walked outside for a minute, and I was worried that I'd go in there and he'd die right in front of me. But, in a sudden flash, I knew that he would be OK. When we went back inside, they had been successful at returning his heart to it's proper rhythm, and it was slowing down to a normal rate.I don't attribute these experiences to a god, though I would consider them to be spiritual. There are a few others I could mention, but I think this will suffice. I am aware of the nature of things like this, and as such, I am not asking anyone to believe me when I relate these things. Looking at them scientifically, there is not enough evidence to even come close to explaining how, why, or even if they happened. If these experiences resonate with you on some level, great, but if not, that's fine too.One last thing, Brad, would you please not use my topic as another attention grab? For the love of sanity, if you want to leave this place, go on and do it already. I'm getting tired of this, and I think a lot of other people are as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619801/#p619801 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Tom. Brad's account is a cheese burger. That issue is solved for 5 hours. I would say god is a cheese burger, but that would break the universe since he doesn't exist. Oh crap, I already wrote it, so we're screwed for the next 5 hours. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619799/#p619799 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god If I understand things correctly, suffering and all that exists today because we turned away from God. This could have been a perfect world. It all started when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I suppose those angels who turned away from God and joined the devil coming down and mating with mortals didn't help either. Supposedly Christ is supposed to come back and fix everything, but no one knows when that'll be. So when we say that God can't or won't fix everything, that's not entirely correct, according to the narrative. It's apparently not the right time to do it. That is if all that is true anyway. Why it needs to take 2000+ years, I have no idea.Also, anyone who doesn't accept Christ's sacrifice goes to hell along with the devil and his angels. It doesn't matter how much good someone does. If they don't follow Christ, they're screwed on Judgment Day. Apparently God doesn't want anyone to go to hell, but if people choose to turn away from him he has no choice but to send them there, because free will and all that. That's partly why I think Christianity is mostly a way to control people. I say mostly, because some good things have been done in the name of Christianity as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619795/#p619795 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @mads: I am pasting a research paper here, and two things I'll copy here from the paper:from the heading "Control of Autonomic Responses":In early research Green and Green (1977) assessed under laboratory conditions the capacity to control autonomic responses. In an initial trial Swami Rama an expert meditator with 30 years' experience increased the temperature difference between the left and right sides of his hand after 3 min to 11F apart (neural controls over the radial and ulnar arteries in the wrist are located within a few millimeters of each other in the central nervous system). In a second experiment on demand the subject stopped his heart from pumping blood for 16 s, with no detectable pulse (other than an atrial flutter on the EKG) before returning heart rate back to baseline with no ill effects.Benson et al. (1982) studied subjects practicing the Tibetan Buddhist meditational practice g-tummo (heat) and found they had the capacity to increase the temperature of their fingers and toes (a prophylactic to frostbite) by as much as 8.3°C. In a more recent follow up study of this phenomenon, Kozhevnikov et al. (2013) reported reliable increases in axillary temperature from the normal range (37.5°C) up to 38.3°C among g-tummo meditators accompanied by increases in alpha, beta, and gamma power. What is unusual about the above research results is that not only are homeostatic mechanisms normally controlled by the central nervous system, but in the case of the g-tummo temperature regulation findings, the detectors of heat and effectors for changing temperature are located in the extremities (e.g., the hands and feet) and are not set up as a reflex mechanism to be overridden by cognitive commands. Such unexplainable evidence that the mind can have direct influence over physical mechanisms normally outside our control is a possible indicator of the capability for telekinesis (remote control of physical systems) in the Buddhist system of supernormal abilities.from the heading called "paranormal":In another experiment by Green and Green (1977) expert meditator Swami Rama was assessed under laboratory conditions to mentally move an object without exerting any physical force. Wearing a face mask and sitting six feet away to prevent any effects of airflow, Rama recited a mantra, and after a loud exclamation and a word of command, the needle rotated ten degrees toward him. This was replicated twice in the presence of six medical doctors and experimental scientists.here is the paper30 years of intensive practice just to develop such stuff? nah, not worth it, IMHO. life is too short for such things. although if there is a remote chance of getting what Buddhists call divine eye, or clairvoyance, and divine ear or clairaudience, some time out might help blind and people suffering from hearing loss. not to mention there's claims of you getting to see and hear stuff in other realms of existence inaccessible to the normal 5 senses which would actually be cool if it's true. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619791/#p619791 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @Brad your best option is to never look back. Act like you have no account to begin with. Lets say the mods did delete your account? What would you do? Create endless swarms of alts whenever you feel like posting? Its not on the mods, its on you to take charge URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619787/#p619787 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @targor, i'm doing it so that I don't have the erge to log in. When you've convinced the admins to delete my account, you'll let me know won't you? For now, this is my best option.@Mads, I can hold energy in my hands whenever I like. If I come across a science thing in the UK to do with this I'll show them I can do it and let them do what they like. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619785/#p619785 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @112 the thing with what you call supernatural powers is that noone figured out yet the laws behind it. I claimed that I can do somethings but I can't do them whenever I want, usually it happens when I don't think about it, when my mind is empty. I wont try for any of the research mentioned because I know I wont be able to do it in a controlled environment. Just the fact that I know I am in an experiment and someone is expecting results will make them useless because the mind will try not to fail and will think of whatever to stop me from doing that. From my own experience, the fewer the possibilities are, the easier is to get a right answer. If someone asks me what number I am thinking about then I would be certainly wrong since there are infinite possibilities. The mind is so complicated that we can't even comprehend how many things it can do, and we are just grasping at what is beyond. I would like to participate in such experiment one day though, just for the sake of it and because I am curious as what the results might be. Take a look at this experiment though, it might intrigue you. Apparently, people in deep meditation are projecting UV and infrared light, even up to 10 times the baseline. Here is the abstract and the link. So how do you explain this? isn't it paranormal?ABSTRACT: The Bioenergy Laboratory at the Rhine Research Center detects electromagnetic radiation from humans during times of focused intent—typically during deep meditation or implied energetic healing activities. Sensitive infrared (IR) and ultraviolet (UV) light detection equipment measures invisible light emissions from the participants. Approximately 100 participants, including selfproclaimed energetic healers, meditators, and others claiming no special abilities, were measured using IR and UV equipment. These experiments measure the levels (photons/second) of electromagnetic radiation and whether the participants are able to intentionally control the emissions. In the IR studies, professed energetic healers produced radiation or heat on their palms and foreheads when they began their healing process, and it subsided when they stopped. UV studies found 4 individuals and 3 meditation groups that intentionally projected from 3 to 100,000 times the baseline UV light readings in the room. The change began with their purposeful activities and stopped when the activity subsided. This research demonstrates that light-sensitive equipment can detect energies from some healers and meditators who are able to intentionally project this energy. These emissions may be related to chi, energetic healing, ESP activities, or PK.http://www.rhine.org/images/jp/v76Fall2 … Joines.pdf URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619783/#p619783 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god To all those who claim to possess what you might call beyond normal or even supernatural things, please tell me, why it never seems to work when people try to test these sorts of things. I mean, if you could show these powers or intuitions or energies or whatever you like to call them to consistantly work or have some repeatable, testable effect, you would litterally revolutionize the whole of science and probably the whole community of different spiritualities. Not even could you become very rich by winning the James Randy challenge if that is still a thing or research grants, but you might also better the world if we could utilize these things.Until you remove all the confirmation bias and other such things, I will remain extremely sceptical. Call me a sinical bastard, but I don't believe any of these claims. The human brain is a wonderfully complex thing, and we don't know nearly enough about it. But what we do know is, that it has a great ability to trick itself, seeing patterns where there are none, and generally acting weird, so until we can dismiss these things as the cause of the experiences, I would suggest not jumping to something, which we have no idea of it even existing or being possible.Finally I would just like to finish with a quote I got somewhere on God and power:"Power corrupts, great power corrupts greatly, ultimate power corrupts ultimally." URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619778/#p619778 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Soo i didnt read all the posts here because they are too many.But im sorry for what happened with post#1.But i have something to say. Why people only when hey are down and hardships come they search for god and if god doesnt help, then god is the bad guy?Yea sometimes it seems like god doesnt do anything because this earth is not his. This earth is the satans domain.And what do you expect in satans domain? But god can help you when you are down and you dont know how to get up. This body that we have one day will however rotten but the soul remain.What you do with it is your choice. You soul will live forever. But you choose where.And in the bible it says that the people can do how many good things they can but that doesnt mean if you dogood things like donate to x or do that to y that doesnt mean you go in heaven.I will say this from bible: Ephesians chapter 2 vers 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.Jew and Gentile Reconciled Through Christ.What i want to say is that no one can say: Ooo look i did that i did this im going in heaven.Nope. It is about what you belive.I choose to belive in god. You can say whatever you want about me. You can do whatever. That is my belive. Im free to belive that. But please when something doesnt work the way we want we blame god. God can help anyone with a flip of his finger but if he does what will the people learn?I dont say that god does this inntentionally.God is there to help you get trough things. He helps you in spirit not your body because this body of ours will rotten one day.I have a thing. Better to belive and god to not exist, then to not belive and god exist.Everytime we are down and sad we pray to god: GOd help me. But when we are good and fine god is no more. So why should god help people like this?Im waitting the curses now! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619779/#p619779 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god To all those who claim to possess what you might call beyond normal or even supernatural things, please tell me, why it never seems to work when people try to test these sorts of things. I mean, if you could show these powers or intuitions or energies or whatever you like to call them to consistantly work or have some repeatable, testable effect, you would litterally revolutionize the whole of science and probably the whole community of different spiritualities. Not even could you become very rich by winning the James Randy challenge if that is still a thing or research grants, but you might also better the world if we could utilize these things.Until you remove all the confirmation bias and other such things, I will remain extremely sceptical. Call me a sinical bastard, but I don't believe any of these claims. The human brain is a wonderfully complex thing, and we don't know nearly enough about it. But what we do know is, that it has a great ability to trick itself, seeing patterns where there are none, and generally acting weird, so until we can dismiss these things as the cause of the experiences, I would suggest not jumping to something, which we have no idea of it even existing or being possible.Finally I would just like to finish with a quote I got somewhere on God and power:"Power corrupts, great power corrupts greatly, ultimate power corrupts ultimally." URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619778/#p619778 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god By the love of ... well ... god, what is the point of scrambling your password when you just recover it anytime you feel like it? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619775/#p619775 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god I'm going to stop posting on this thread and scramble my password again I enjoyed writing on this topic and hoep you all have as much of a good day/night as you can. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619773/#p619773 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @gauravSharma I agree with you, in order to truly know, to truly feel what's behind you need to drop everything, every belief and every preconception, even the claim that I am the body, or I am the mind. This is how it happened for me aswell. I tried for about 10 years different belief systems, spiritual, religious, whatever you could think off and it led me nowhere. One day though, when I was meditating, I felt like I couldn't go on, like there is nothing I believe in because I haven't experienced it as true so I said to myself let's drop all of that, let's be nothing, heck let's drop the nothing and just be. And then it happened, then it clicked and all fell into place. The experience is undescribable because it's full of paradoxes that you can not comprehend with the mind, you comprehend it at some level beyond the mind. If I say that I was nothing and everything at the same time what does it mean exactly, it makes no sense to the mind because we are not mean to understand this but feel it, that's when true awakening ockurs. As I said earlier, I could write a thousand pages and it would not make more sense than this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619772/#p619772 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @Jayde, the issue you are describing in post 99 is very sensitive to religious people. It is because they haven't asked the question themselves comparing real evidence with what they know from books written thousands of years ago. If they did their faith would evaporate. If they could see behind this hipocricy, the all loving, all knowing and almighty god of the new testament who helped countles people, cured the sick, etc, is simply not here anymore, or maybe it never was.But then, fear comes, takes control of the mind and stops the questioning, stops the wandering and the desire to get answers. Most religious people I know believe in god because they are affraid of what comes next. They are affraid that, if they don't believe they will be damned to eternal torture and damned forever. Simply put, if god exists and I believe, do good things, I go to heaven. If god doesn't exist though and I still believe and do good things then I have nothing to lose by believing and everything to lose by not believing. Why would god get all the credit for everything good that is happening in this world and none for the bad? Because people are affraid to say it outloud, religious people fear that, by even thinking about this, they are comiting an unforgetable sin and be damned forever. Heck, look at the english language, even saying hell is considered a bad word. This is called conditioning. When people believe in ilusory things, in things that aren't real but could be. Religion is very clever because it uses two methods of conditioning. One that will make you believe that you will go to heaven, the place where there will be only peace, love, happiness etc, and the fear of damnation where you will burn eternally and suffer unspeakable pain. Atheism is stil considdered a taboo because, for many people, it is an unforgivable sin to think or say that god doesn't exist so the questioning never arises in the first place. Whenever it tries to arise it's quickly suppresed and considdered comming from the devil. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619765/#p619765 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @GauravSharma as harsh as this sounds, the end gole, the ending bit; is that she will die and pass on. Perhaps gole is the wrong word. I believe there is a perpus to everything and that we keep learning as we evolve as beings, there may be an end point to that, meeting god, but then again perhaps we meet god and do it all over again, like one of those idal clicker games with resets where you gane a bit more power each time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619761/#p619761 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god If there *absolutely* needs to be an end goal according to you then whenever suffering would strike you'd manage it using that as a coping and escape mechanism. Why to worry when it all would culminate into something spectacular in the end, anyway. That's what it translates to. I don't see any end goal to the suffering that Op's grandma is going through, just saying. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619758/#p619758 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @GauravSharma I'm not sure where you're getting that i'm using spiritualism as an escape? I just believe there has to be an end gole to all of this and that we go somewhere when we die, that's it.I accept your point about suffering being a state of bordem though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619752/#p619752 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Brad wrote:"@GauravSharma. So if we move on from the body and go somewhere and there's no creator who made that soul, or hat meness, what's the point?"who said there needs to be one. Obviously you did. Didn't realize you were spiritual just to use it as an escape mechanism. Don't bother. Won't take you anywhere in the long run. If you truly want to know, dropping all beliefs and preconceived ideas obviously is the first step.Brad wrote:"That makes no sense to me, there has to be an end gole, unless we go somewhere and are destroyed but I highly doubt that's true because there's tuns and i mean tuns of experiences including my own that prove there's more relms out there than this one so killing energy, if you can even do that, makes no sense to me."why does there has to be an end goal? Isn't journey an end in itself? By the way, I am not a nihilist, so I can't claim that there absolutely can't be one. But how does there being an end goal translates into realization of all-powerful, all-loving, all-compassionate god which obviously is just a fictional construct to control the gullible masses at worst?Brad wrote:"As for bordem, I still say we'd have the experience of being bored if we were at peace in this world all the time, I didn't say at oneness with god did I? i'm telling you; if the creator of the universes came here to fix it all we'd get pretty bored quite quick, there'd be nothing to fight for. OH we'd probably like it for a number of years but eventually we'd think, "I'm tired of peace, let's make a change."the experience of boredom is still suffering. My point stands. If all the suffering were to vanish from the world, boredom would, too, all the causes and conditions that lead to that would vanish as well. The world would become utterly static and ecstatic. (Paradoxical, no?) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619748/#p619748 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @jade, I'm not religious so can't answer your questions from that point of view.As for me personally being mad at you for not fixing diseases? No, I'd not be mad, truth is; i'd probably not care as it's not my country. Did you care when Brexit happened, I didn't and I live in the place.As for you helping your girlfriend? You should try your best to do that if you can.The thing is Jade, you're thinking of god as a human who, it's said, will come down and fix things. That's not how I see god. God to me is a energy that can think, I don't think of it as a human ready to fix things. So with that way of thinking, there's no reason for it to fix x y and z, it could if it chose to I guess but it won't because humans need suffering to be human. We need to strive for something to fight for. IF God or the creator came down and gave nasa all the answers to how to land on mars, there'd be no mistery, there'd be no aha moment. That way of thinking can apply to any discovery made in human history. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619743/#p619743 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @jade, I'm not religious so can't answer your questions from that point of view.As for me personally being mad at you for not fixing diseases? No, I'd not be mad, truth is; i'd probably not care as it's not my country. Did you care when Brexit happened, I didn't and I live in the place.As for you helping your girlfriend? You should try your best to do that if you can.The thing is Jade, you're thinking of god as a human who, it's said, will come down and fix things. That's not how I see god. God to me is a energy that can think, I don't think of it as a human ready to fix things. So with that way of thinking, there's no reason for it to fix x y and z, it could if it chose to I guess but it won't because humans need suffering to be human. We need to strive for something to fight for. IF God or the creator came down and gave nasa all the answers to how to land on mars, there'd be no mistery, there'd be no aha moment, that can apply to any discovery made in human history. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619743/#p619743 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god I will also just throw out that if god is all-powerful and all-knowing it would take him literally no time at all to fix the world. He could just do it. Zero effort, boom, world is now better. Literally no time and no effort but wanting it to happen on his part. All-powerful means you get what you wish for no matter what, instantly, and without fail. When I say that people don't get what all-powerful means, this is what I'm referring to. People can say "all-powerful god" and "here's a bunch of passes" in the same breath, but all-powerful beings by their nature are, well, all-powerful. If god existed, then the only reason the world sucks is that he hasn't wanted it not to. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619738/#p619738 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @GauravSharma. So if we move on from the body and go somewhere and there's no creator who made that soul, or hat meness, what's the point?That makes no sense to me, there has to be an end gole, unless we go somewhere and are destroyed but I highly doubt that's true because there's tuns and i mean tuns of experiences including my own that prove there's more relms out there than this one so killing energy, if you can even do that, makes no sense to me.As for bordem, I still say we'd have the experience of being bored if we were at peace in this world all the time, I didn't say at oneness with god did I? i'm telling you; if the creator of the universes came here to fix it all we'd get pretty bored quite quick, there'd be nothing to fight for. OH we'd probably like it for a number of years but eventually we'd think, "I'm tired of peace, let's make a change."If a creator of the universes came down and fixed this world, humans would find a way to mess it up again; it's what we do and I must admit; we're very good at it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619735/#p619735 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @96 The second option would kind of ruin the whole "god is loving us and he cares for us" thing, which makes the whole religion a bit pointless.The third option would mean that god is not all powerful and has barriers even he can't bypass. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619733/#p619733 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @90, man, I can barely imagine what you and your family must be going through. I can only hope for it to end soon, that too as painlessly as possible.Brad wrote:"I've suffered through bullieing, and family drama, but I don't deny an existance after we die because of that."you don't need god for existence after death to work. The causality would sufficeI agree with @Jayde here. Clearly, god doesn't exist at least in the way all the religious denominations talk about, Hinduism included-that is the whole universe being alive and conscious-though I just can't outright deny there being a little possibility of that part. There might not be an objective way to measure it, but on a subjective level, the experience of many people over the millennia including that of @77 talk about the same thing, that is ego dissolution and perceiving everything and having no sense of me or myself at the same time. By the way, that does seem to be the essence of enlightenment, because that's where all Indian spiritual traditions intersect in the end, Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, although the beliefs of course differ. Not only that, what Sufis call Muraqabah which culminates in Fanāʾ Fī ʾilāh, Christians call illumination, Zen calls Satori, Chinese call "one with the Tao' " appear to be the same thing, So it appears to be a universal human experience when you dig real, real deep inside yourself. Although it could also be just hallucinations cooked up by the brain, too. Because of course when you focus continuously on something specific for a long time you are gradually bringing changes in the neurons and weakening the habitual tendency of default mode network by stopping the wandering, monkey mind and, as this paper demonstrates, so Can't dismiss that possibility either.Brad wrote:"IF there wasn't pain and suffering in the world, guess what, we'd hate it here. If there wasn't drama, we'd hate it here, if there weren't causes to fight for or things to improve upon, we'd hate it here. If it were peaceful all the time; we'd quickly get very bored of life."incorrect. If there was no pain and suffering in the world, then boredom too would not exist. Boredom is a toned down version of disgust which itself is a form of suffering. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619728/#p619728 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @90, man, I can barely imagine what you and your family must be going through. I can only hope for it to end soon, that too as painlessly as possible.Brad wrote:"I've suffered through bullieing, and family drama, but I don't deny an existance after we die because of that."you don't need god for existence after death to work. The causality would sufficeI agree with @Jayde here. Clearly, god doesn't exist at least in the way all the religious denominations talk about, Hinduism included-that is the whole universe being alive and conscious-though I just can't outright deny there being a little possibility of that part. There might not be an objective way to measure it, but on a subjective level, the experience of many people over the millennia including that of @77 talk about the same thing, that is ego dissolution and perceiving everything and having no sense of me or myself at the same time. By the way, that does seem to be the essence of enlightenment, because that's where all Indian spiritual traditions intersect in the end, Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, although the beliefs of course differ. Not only that, what Sufis call Muraqabah, Christians call illumination, Zen calls Satori, Chinese call "one with the Tao' " appear to be the same thing, So it appears to be a universal human experience when you dig real, real deep in yourself. Although it could also be just hallucinations cooked up by the brain, too. Because of course when you focus continuously on something specific for a long time you are gradually bringing changes in the neurons and weakening the habitual tendency of default mode network by stopping the wandering, monkey mind and, as this paper demonstrates, so Can't dismiss that possibility either.Brad wrote:"IF there wasn't pain and suffering in the world, guess what, we'd hate it here. If there wasn't drama, we'd hate it here, if there weren't causes to fight for or things to improve upon, we'd hate it here. If it were peaceful all the time; we'd quickly get very bored of life."incorrect. If there was no pain and suffering in the world, then boredom too would not exist. Boredom is a toned down version of disgust which itself is a form of suffering. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619728/#p619728 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god Brad, you can't have it both ways.If god is all-powerful, as so many religions claim, then he doesn't get a free pass when bad shit happens. With great power comes great responsibility, so with ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility.If god is not, in fact, all-powerful, and it's difficult or impossible for him to fix things, then people need to stop feeding the lie that god has all the cards.And as to your question about why god should fix stuff?See, here's the deal. When you see something wrong, you can either make it better, make it worse or walk on by. Most of us try to make at least some things better; we do this because we're social and empathetic creatures. Sometimes we do make things worse. Most of the time, we just walk on by. But generally, we celebrate those in our community who make things better, even (and especially) if it inconveniences those people. If you have to go four extra miles for someone, your selflessness is, to some degree, celebrated. You're hailed as empathetic, supportive, a good friend or a good leader. We actively foster this behaviour in ourselves.But a god figure, which is supposed to be the source of all of our best qualities, arguably has a far, far greater responsibility to fix what he fucks up, or even just to fix the consequences when things do not go according to original design. Why exactly are we holding a mythical figure to standards that are -lower than those to which we hold ourselves, when that figure is supposed to have far greater capacity for good and far greater responsibility for maintaining what he created?By suggesting that god isn't responsible, what you're saying is that no matter how much power you hold, you shouldn't be held to account for the bad things that happen. Feel free to just ignore them. You'd fit right in with the old Trump administration with an attitude like that. lol Seriously, a little selfishness is par for the course, and sometimes you deliberately have to help yourself before helping someone else. It happens. I get it. But we aren't talking about god giving a two-year-old an ice cream cone. We're talking about god not being bothered to fix unnecessary suffering, in the form of debilitating, long-term illness.I'll put a spike in this. Let's say for just a moment that I was the leader of Canada, and by some freak coincidence I also had the power to eliminate Alzheimer's disease in my country. Doing so would cost me little or nothing. How would you feel if I simply refused to act? Would it make you angry? Would you be disgusted that, when faced with a choice to do nothing or to ameliorate the suffering of my people, I turned away? Would you call me a bad leader?Let's go even smaller. Say I had a partner. I wake up one night and I can hear her crying in the living room. I know she's been stressed lately, and she hasn't been sleeping too well. She was beside me when I fell asleep, and now I hear her crying like her heart's going to break. What sort of partner would I be if I just grunted, rolled over and went back to sleep? Because hey, maybe the reason for her weeping is beyond my ability to fix, but maybe my going out into the living room and putting an arm around her, or even just sitting down next to her, would make her feel supported in some small way. It would be a sesture, the bare minimum. You'd probably call me an asshole for being that selfish, particularly if this is something I did all the time instead of, say, doing just once when I was ridiculously tired. You wouldn't make excuses for me. You'd call me selfish, maybe even encourage my partner to leave this toxic relationship because clearly I don't care about her well-being.Now, turn that to god. He never answers. He never actually makes things better. Long-term illness still exists. People cry themselves to sleep. People even in well-developed countries go to bed with growling bellies and troubled thoughts. God fixes none of it. So I ask you: if it's okay for god to just abdicate all responsibility, why isn't it okay when humans do it? Why the double standard?If there were a god, and he resembled the Christian version, and he did even a hundredth of one percent of the stuff that it was claimed he had done, I would be calling him an abusive, controlling, narcissistic tyrant. If I knew a person who did even a hundredth of one percent of the stuff god has supposedly done, I'd say the same of them. Why can't you? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619730/#p619730 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @90, man, I can barely imagine what you and your family must be going through. I can only hope for it to end soon, that too as painlessly as possible.Brad wrote:"I've suffered through bullieing, and family drama, but I don't deny an existance after we die because of that."you don't need god for existence after death to work. The causality would sufficeI agree with @Jayde here. Clearly, god doesn't exist at least in the way all the religious denominations talk about, Hinduism included-that is the whole universe being alive and conscious-though I just can't outright deny there being a little possibility of that part. There might not be an objective way to measure it, but on a subjective level, the experience of many people over the millennia including that of @77 talk about the same thing, that is ego dissolution and perceiving everything and having no sense of me or myself at the same time. By the way, that does seem to be the essence of enlightenment, because that's where all Indian spiritual traditions intersect in the end, Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, although the beliefs of course differ. Not only that, what Sufis call Muraqabah, Christians call illumination, Zen calls Satori, Chinese call "one with the Tao' " appear to be the same thing, So it appears to be a universal human experience when you dig real, real deep in yourself. Although it could also be just hallucinations cooked up by the brain, too. Because of course when you focus continuously on something specific for a long time you are gradually bringing changes in the neurons and weakening the habitual tendency of default mode network by stopping the wandering, monkey mind and, as this this paper demonstrates, so Can't dismiss that possibility either.Brad wrote:"IF there wasn't pain and suffering in the world, guess what, we'd hate it here. If there wasn't drama, we'd hate it here, if there weren't causes to fight for or things to improve upon, we'd hate it here. If it were peaceful all the time; we'd quickly get very bored of life."incorrect. If there was no pain and suffering in the world, then boredom too would not exist. Boredom is a toned down version of disgust which itself is a form of suffering. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619728/#p619728 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god
Re: I am affronted by the presence of god @Jayde this is quite interesting to me. So you're saying that because abdullah_mohammad went through hardship he should be mad at god and because he isn't and believes it's out there he has a screw loose? I think that's quite rude honestly. I've been through my own shit man and through none of it did I say god doesn't exist, I've had experiences that prove to me over and over again that we go on after we die. If you have an open mind you can look for quite a few things from astral projection to energy work to mantras, it's all out there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/619727/#p619727 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
