Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I must say..I would not have my sight back.. I'm in fact happy I was born blind, due to the simple fact that I'm able to help people to understand that blind aren't weird people..Asking others for help has never been a problem for me.. Hec, I was able to make great friends just by asking them for help..Don't get me wrong, I think it would be nice to have sight.. But for me, I have just got used to my blindness and try to make the best of each day that comes.. I don't complain or wine about it, I simply try to be thankful for the things I have.I think its because here in Brasil, most blind people are treated differently.. Sinse we don't have as much government support, we are forced to learn our way around the world. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=354214#p354214 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-28
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? To further accentuate my point and my dislike of the NFB, I will tell you about a brief conversation I had with one of my former teachers of the visually impaired. They are going to be immersed in assisting nursing and assistive living facilities deal with people who do not have adequate vision to function in their environment. While that topic is outside of this scope, somewhere along the trail, they wandered towards a controversial topic involving the attitudes held by a large majority of members of the National Federation of the Blind. It's what was said that I really liked. Let's back up to when we were just young, curious and playful tykes. We probably remember being told, from time to time, 'work together, help others, be kind,' you name it. Sadly, many people have forgotten these truths by the time they reached adulthood.When I went to my first NFB-sponsored event, I was assuming that I would be guided by either a fellow blind person, or someone who had vision. Sadly, that came to naught. I didn't know that nobody thought I had a hearing loss. Those who could see that I wore hearing aids spoke in very arrogant voices, which I took no liking to. Nobody takes kindly to being yelled at, even people with residual hearing, such as myself.When I came back to school, my new teacher of the visually-impaired had informed me that, for better or worse, I should be more interdependent instead of independent. That way, I wouldn't be working all alone for the rest of my life.When my former teacher dropped me off earlier this afternoon, we talked about that very problem. The NFB wants people to be completely independent, all the time, every time. So, the big question is, why? Is it because the NFB is afraid that if society sees a group of blind people being led by a sighted human guide, they would assume people were helpless? Going back to what I said about guide dogs, how do you expect to compare a dog guiding you versus a human?Also, I agree that the stages of blindness, and the stages of grief are all just a pattern of observations that are to be expected in the average human in Western culture. That is not to say, however, that everyone will have these stages in this order. But, at the same time, how you present this information, be it noble or militant, will matter the most, as each and every individual will interpret it differently. It's not what you say, but how you say it.Also, you raised some good points, many of which reminded me of a book I read about a year ago called Out of My Mind, by Sharon M. Draper. So as not to spoil the novel, I will say that it was truly, a moving experience.I may have said this in another post, but I actually have an older brother. He is twenty-five years old. Like Helen Keller, he is totally deaf and totally blind. Unlike she, however, my brother never received formal communication skill, like American Sign Language, or tactile signing until he was much older. This caused him to rage and act out, something which happens from time to time up to this day. I am doing everything I can to get the services he needs so he can at least communicate more effectively.I learned to cope with my hearing loss because that's the only path I have left to take. So, I would want to cure my hearing loss first before I went and cured my blindness. I, too, am an avid musician, and I would hate to lose that ability completely.Sometimes, I just wish I could be whole. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=354170#p354170 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-28
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? To further accentuate my point and my dislike of the NFB, I will tell you about a brief conversation I had with one of my former teachers of the visually impaired. They are going to be immersed in assisting nursing and assistive living facilities deal with people who do not have adequate vision to function in their environment. While that topic is outside of this scope, somewhere along the trail, they wandered towards a controversial topic involving the attitudes held by a large majority of members of the National Federation of the Blind. It's what was said that I really liked. Let's back up to when we were just young, curious and playful tykes. We probably remember being told, from time to time, 'work together, help others, be kind,' you name it. Sadly, many people have forgotten these truths by the time they reached adulthood.When I went to my first NFB-sponsored event, I was assuming that I would be guided by either a fellow blind person, or someone who had vision. Sadly, that came to naught. I didn't know that nobody thought I had a hearing loss. Those who could see that I wore hearing aids spoke in very arrogant voices, which I took no liking to. Nobody takes kindly to being yelled at, even people with residual hearing, such as myself.When I came back to school, my new teacher of the visually-impaired had informed me that, for better or worse, I should be more interdependent instead of independent. That way, I wouldn't be working all alone for the rest of my life.When my former teacher dropped me off earlier this afternoon, we talked about that very problem. The NFB wants people to be completely independent, all the time, every time. So, the big question is, why? Is it because the NFB is afraid that if society sees a group of blind people being led by a sighted human guide, they would assume people were helpless? Going back to what I said about guide dogs, how do you expect to compare a dog guiding you versus a human?Also, I agree that the stages of blindness, and the stages of grief are all just a pattern of observations that are to be expected in the average human in Western culture. That is not to say, however, that everyone will have these stages in this order. But, at the same time, how you present this information, be it noble or militant, will matter the most, as each and every individual will interpret it differently. It's not what you say, but how you say it.Also, you raised some good points, many of which reminded me of a book I read about a year ago called Out of My Mind, by Sharon M. Draper. So as not to spoil the novel, I will say that it was truly, a moving experience.I learned to cope with my hearing loss because that's the only path I have left to take. So, I would want to cure my hearing loss first before I went and cured my blindness. I, too, am an avid musician, and I would hate to lose that ability completely.Sometimes, I just wish I could be whole. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=354170#p354170 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-28
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? To further accentuate my point and my dislike of the NFB, I will tell you about a brief conversation I had with one of my former teachers of the visually impaired. They are going to be immersed in assisting nursing and assistive living facilities deal with people who do not have adequate vision to function in their environment. While that topic is outside of this scope, somewhere along the trail, they wandered towards a controversial topic involving the attitudes held by a large majority of members of the National Federation of the Blind. It's what was said that I really liked. Let's back up to when we were just young, curious and playful tykes. We probably remember being told, from time to time, 'work together, help others, be kind,' you name it. Sadly, many people have forgotten these truths by the time they reached adulthood.When I went to my first NFB-sponsored event, I was assuming that I would be guided by either a fellow blind person, or someone who had vision. Sadly, that came to naught. I didn't know that nobody thought I had a hearing loss. Those who could see that I wore hearing aids spoke in very arrogant voices, which I took no liking to. Nobody takes kindly to being yelled at, even people with residual hearing, such as myself.When I came back to school, my new teacher of the visually-impaired had informed me that, for better or worse, I should be more interdependent instead of independent. That way, I wouldn't be working all alone for the rest of my life.When my former teacher dropped me off earlier this afternoon, we talked about that very problem. The NFB wants people to be completely independent, all the time, every time. So, the big question is, why? Is it because the NFB is afraid that if society sees a group of blind people being led by a sighted human guide, they would assume people were helpless? Going back to what I said about guide dogs, how do you expect to compare a dog guiding you versus a human?Also, I agree that the stages of blindness, and the stages of grief are all just a pattern of observations that are to be expected in the average human in Western culture. That is not to say, however, that everyone will have these stages in this order. But, at the same time, how you present this information, be it noble or militant, will matter the most, as each and every individual will interpret it differently. It's not what you say, but how you say it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=354170#p354170 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? At TJT, I always took issue with those three stages that Kenneth Jernigan wrote about. It puts every blind person into a neat little box, trying to dictate how they should react to their blindness. It's not psychologically healthy. Any modern literature on grief, for example, will stress that, while there are five stages that one usually goes through when they lose someone of importance, it's perfectly normal to skip some of them, or stay stuck in any number of them, or not have any discernible pattern at all. So the fact that all blind people are supposed to be timid, aggressive, and then, for lack of a better term, healed, is absurd. I also think, although I could be wrong about this, that it was written in the context of people who go through training at an NFB center. This seems like an extremely rapid progression, to say the least. Anyone who is expected to go through such rapid emotional changes in such a short time is bound to suffer ill effects.As for the debate about one disability being worse than another, I think it's all relative. I couldn't imagine being deaf myself. If I could never hear music again, or the voices of those I love, I honestly don't know if I could cope with that. If I were to get into an accident tomorrow and lose a leg, sure, that would be tough, but not nearly as devastating as taking away the one sense that means everything to me. Yet, you hear all the time, as I said above, about how blindness is the most feared disability of them all. Most people would rather lose a limb or become a vegetable if asked. In theory, anyway, of course.And, had I been born deaf or paralyzed or cognitively impaired instead of blind, this would be a completely different argument too, one that I can't even pretend to understand. Since I went to a school for the blind, and encountered a lot of children who had it a thousand times worse than me in many ways, I gained a lot of empathy. It broke my heart when I would see a kid who was nonverbal, bound to a wheelchair, and blind, and banging on every object within their reach or attacking staff in order to communicate. Even less severe cognitive deficits could easily get you taken advantage of in that environment, not to mention that, in most cases, those kids were there because their families had pawned them off on a system that would get the kids off their hands so they wouldn't have to deal with them. I don't claim to be a martyr, nor am I saying that having one disability necessarily attunes you to the suffering of others. That's how it worked for me, and, as I said, even in my darkest hours when the only thing I could think about was wanting, needing to get out of my current situation, there were two things that made me hold on. One of them was seeing how others were treated, and how they couldn't express their needs in the usual ways, and I couldn't imagine what that would be like. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=354162#p354162 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? At TJT, I always took issues with those three stages that Kenneth Jernigan wrote about. It puts every blind person into a neat little box, trying to dictate how they should react to their blindness. It's not psychologically healthy. Any modern literature on grief, for example, will stress that, while there are five stages that one usually goes through when they lose someone of importance, it's perfectly normal to skip some of them, or stay stuck in any number of them, or not have any discernible pattern at all. So the fact that all blind people are supposed to be timid, aggressive, and then, for lack of a better term, healed, is absurd. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=354162#p354162 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-26
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Well, at the second part of 174, now that you put these in place, how easy would it be to implement those little details you mentioned, such as wind direction and speed, other ambient noise, distant echos, etc? We'd need something like the Skywalker Sounds in Lucus Farm, California. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353969#p353969 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Are there organizations that force echolocation down people's throats? I heard of the SF Lighthouse having someone who taught it at one point, and it gets mentioned a couple times at LCB, but otherwise it's just something that kinda happens. I don't feel like it requires super sensitive hearing, at least where large objects like buildings are concerned. When you can detect when a hallway opens into a room, absent some extra noise like fans or people, it's usually either airflow or echoes. I caught myself tapping my cane sometimes when I was standing still, without really thinking about it, having never before thought about the clicking thing, because I got so use to the feedback while walking that it became background information. I was never taught it, but based on how it came up on its own, how even sighted people occasionally mention things like feeling the openness/closedness of an environment, or feeling the presence of people behind or beside them, it really doesn't seem as complicated as it sounds.I don't think I have that guy's contact information, but I might be able to get it, if you want.@164: My first impulse is to be concerned that the simulation you described would have insufficient detail—things like wind, echoes, or obstructions that would alter the sound, for example. I'd still say it's worth puting to the test, though. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353942#p353942 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? hi,So ethin, you make asumptions on what I mşight and might not do, without having any idea of my character, or personal qualities. I would say that this is incredibly judgmental to make guesses on a person's actions, without knowing that person. And about sighted people and braille displays, why would a sighted person need to know how to use a braille display? What benefit would it bring them? You portray this as if a sighted person somehow needed to know how to use a display.As for spacial skills, kae, you are right. I for instance, always have trouble with grasping spacial concepts, which is unrelated to the amount of efort. I just can't seem to memorize large open spaces, or have an intuitive orientation.As for echolocation, it requires very sensetive hearing, and any difference, and you can't learn it effectively. I think blindness organizations should quit forcing this down one's throat as a trainable or learnable skill, and view it more like painting, or singing good songs.As for the Turkish guy, as a fellow turkish guy, I would really like to meet him or chat with him. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353930#p353930 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I think Enes is in his 20s, but not sure.Texting while driving is incredibly stupid. I imagine half the people who do it anyway know that, and think they can handle it just this once. Then, if nothing disastrous happens, they decide they might be more capable of getting away with it than sense would suggest, and do it again.I say this because I might maybe possibly once have tried texting while crossing an industrial driveway on an interstate ramp. This is exactly as stupid as it sounds, but I got impatient and didn't think it would be that dangerous, for some reason (I mean, it's not like I'd be looking away from the road, or anything, right?) Of course, I veered off into the road and somehow didn't die. So, 1, don't do that, and 2, underestimating one's susceptibility to hubris is hubris.@165: I don't think Orco meant blind people should be memorizing everything all the time. I mean, Dark has made the point several times that spatial awareness is an ability that varies from person to person, and he focuses on landmarks and reliable cues. Echolocation is one of those things that is rarely taught, and if you don't think about it, you probably don't notice it, but it's definitely a skill which can be trained, given sufficient hearing.I'll grant that talents and styles in these areas matter. I met this hard-core NFB guy who'd been with them his whole life, who was still having a painfully hard time demonstrating any intuitive grasp on his orientation after High School. AFAIK, he eventually got better, but if someone that deep into that system can have that much trouble after so long, then it's clearly not so simple as "just go and do x".I am tempted to bring up cultures. I mean, on one end, we have the way people treat Revan, and on the other hand, we have the wild range of attitudes in the Anglosphere, but I notice that one of the blind people I've met who expressed the most negativity toward blindness was a Turkish guy, I think in his mid-to-late 20s. His skills were pretty good, TBH, and the only thing that stuck out was his tendency to guide other blind people directly. He also mentioned that his first exposure to other blind people was a middle-aged man being guided by a 10-year-old, and how he found the idea of being in that situation unbearably humiliating. I kept remembering that last part, because, IIRC, Enes is the one who first mentioned humiliation. Meanwhile, the people who have been disagreeing with him most have been from places like the US and Australia. I don't know how relevant any of this is, but it's hard not to notice when the conversation splits along cultural lines. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353929#p353929 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Hmmm ians and all I liken the last few posts to what I was like when I got a new workstation and the same with my old symbian phone.Oh yay!I have this new device, lets install all the free stuff on it.Oh look lets load all the optional stuff on it, I mean its there lets load it.Oh but its so slow, I don't need half of it, lets get rid of it yaay!Its like when you get a new system and say, hmmm this is a nice button what does it do when I push it.Oh its the reformat button, ok, lets not do that anymore.Now blind people not being normal, well ofcause we arn't normal.I mean thats the point.As with visual ilusions the same stuff can be done with audio, its much harder ofcause.Now depending where you are in the world it may actually be shell we say a bit more of a hinderance to being blind.Examples are countries with no service at all, say tonga, some of the paciffic islands.Say some middle eastern countries, in my native home country of indonesia, there are no blind services.Some aisian countries maybe to.Some places are to much into welfair, making sure the blind are happy little people that are looked after.There are vary few countries that have it right, new zealand is one of these and we still could do better.Australia has some more of it right.Its not humongus things like major rights here but little things.Things like audio described movies, some tours, discounts on attractions which are sighted but no alternitive for access and stuff like that.Small things that are nice haves rather than must haves except for audio description thats almost a must have for me.Is blindness a disaster.For ians case it may just be, its all location based.And ofcause its not all smooth sailing for me.For example the government here put in place a lot of extra identification systems that make it better and easier for mostly government services.While most of it was easy to handle there were still a few paper visual codes without accessible alternitives to them.I also need to front up to varification centres to varify myself every little while.Right now I live with people that can help me and yes those centres are local post offices so as long as I know where my closest office is I can probably walk to it but even so.This year the census was transfered from visual paper to digital format and its easy to handle mostly.Ofcause there is always more that can be done it goes without saying.And its not all bad I have a family that take me out a lot.I have friends some that are really outgoing and indipendant and others that are simply because of circumstances beyond their control stuck in one state.One of my friends is autistic, his muther works, his father is sick can't work and at home but sleeps a lot.He does get out but not as much as me.As a result he sleeps most of the day, and sits on his computer and does nothing.Saying that when I was yung I did that and if left for long enough my limit so far is about 5-6 weeks alone I tend to revert to that level to.As I mentioned before, being blind isn't really all that bad.I have 2 friends.1 of them has a sister that has a job is bright and well has a life.She is blind, her sister has issues, and is simpley helpless and won't have any life at all.I have another born with a hole in the head who is basically a poor helpless retard, but the law says even if you are a poor helpless retard you can't get got rid of, sadly this means the family must suffer with fits and the like, I know we shouldn't be aborting our disabled by any means I mean I am a disabled person myself but if you are that bad, well put it this way, family no good, I know from mum who is her friend that the muther of this person has a lot of issues because of this, and so it goes on.No excuses here but if you think blindness is that bad look at my examples and think please.I am not sure how old you are ians, but if you are still a teenager I can probably understand, I am 35 years old and I have been through the school system, the university system and the lets try to inadiquitly fund the blind person system.I have survived and while I havn't achieved anything and this is probably my lot right now I am pritty much a free man. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353925#p353925 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @enes, while you never outright said it, your posts implied it. And what you say you might do if you were sited and what you might actually do are two very different things.Also, I do remember you bringing up the point that the sited making things they do look 'easy'. Or something like that, anyway. Well, it does go both ways: give them a braille display and they won't know how to use it. At all. Or at least, some of them don't. Those who do usually have a good reason for knowing how. Still, I think we've battled this issue enough, and you've clearly stated your opinions. (And, by the way, I wasn't just talking about texting and driving either. I was also talking about generally getting too entranced by your phone if you were sited that you'd do what this one guy did -- he was so absorbed in his phone he walked off a cliff.) That's what I meant when I said that site is also the most dangerous sense. The sense of Smell can bring back memories decades old, yes; the other senses are also incredibly powerful, indeed; but unless your deliberately trying to ignore your environment then you can't just shun them aside like you can with your site. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353912#p353912 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? hi,Wait wait. I did not, in any part of my posts, say that blindness is the worst thing that could happen to you. In fact, I could quote some of my earliest posts, in which I stated this fact. I did acknowledge that some disabilities, particularly cognitive ones, are much worse than blindness. You also state that I would injure or kill myself if I was sighted. The fact of the matter is, I am at least as likely, if not more likely, to injure myself, or get killed while blind. Also, don't presume I would text and drive, or do all those other things, before knowing my personality. Texting and driving is retarded, and I would never do things like that. You also mention some other diseases, which cause paralysis, and claim that I have full function of my body. I would argue that sight is a faculty of my body, and therefore I don't have complete function. It can also be argued that that some forms of limb amputation, and many forms of paralysis, are less serious than blindness. Doctors think so too, thats why they give you a less severe disability report if you are paralysed to a major extent, though not above the chest, which makes you unable to breathe on your own. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353909#p353909 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @167, true. However, the big problem with your idea of getting your site back is that it's most likely not as awesome as it sounds. You'd either regress back into habits that your body has memorized over all these years or you'd get caught up in all the ways the sited people can kill themselves with (phones come to mind). What many people have tried to tell you, and what you've failed to grasp, is that Blindness isn't all bad. All I've heard from you on this topic, through following it all the way from start to finish, is negativity from you about blindness. Negative this, negative that. Oh yeah? What about other diseases that are even worse than blindness is (and yes, that's possible). What about diseases that cause paralysis such as poliomyelitis, cerebral palsy, peripheral neuropathy, Parkinson's disease, ALS, botulism, spina bifida, multiple sclerosis, and Guillain–Barré syndrome. What about those who are born with only one arm, or one leg? At least you, unlike those out there who do have diseases that cause paralysis, or who were unfortunate enough to be born with only one leg or arm, or something else just as damaging, still pretty much have full functionality of your body. So, instead of all the negativity about Blindness, I think most of us would actually like to see some positives. You seem like the person who likes to let their disability control them, rather than the other way around. Not a good idea, believe me. Site is nice, true, but while it also is the most powerful in regards to information retrieval, it's also the most dangerous. If you think Blindness is bad, then you truly are out of touch with reality -- because there are things far, far worse than being blind. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353908#p353908 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? The fact of the matter is, all of the senses can be manipulated. Audio ilusions are particularly convincing and fun.here are some examples, though headphones are requiredhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbzL9PxtFf0alsohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvr3gr8BzA0 URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353905#p353905 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @165, you seem to be under the illusion that Site is the best thing that would ever happen to you. I'm going to kindly ask you to stop and think at just how site can be manipulated by visual illusions and how easy it is. The other senses are not so easily manipulated. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353897#p353897 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? orko, You seem to hold the atitude that all blind people should have a photographic memory, and memorize every single building and spot they have been into. You look down on people who haven't done this. How do you know that guy wasn't trying? How do you know that he didn't have other problems in his life that he was focused on at the time? Do you think everyone should get the layout of a building in a single visit, and navigate like a sighted person? If you can do this, then good for you. But this should not be expected of all blind people, and it should not be the norm. Do sighted people get expected to memorize all cities, and places they visit, for instance. An example, I really won't take much efort to learn a place that I am likely never to visit again. Also, a person might have other problems. For instance, when going to a building for an exam, do you think you'd be focused on the layout, or your exam?As for techniques, many of the alternative techniques are inferior in many ways. A wall for instance, while it can possibly be navigated by sound, that is not always possible, and every blind person might not be able to use echolocation, as it requires quite precise hearing. A sighted person doesn't need perfect sight to navigate a wall for instance. One additional thinng, sighted people do get 80% of information, from their environment, and this is fact. This research is done with people who have PH.Ds in the fields they research. While the NFB just makes unsubstantiated asertions in their doctrins. Unless you are equally knowledgeable in neuroscience, or a related field, I will take what scientists say over some crazy militant blind people. Also, when site is lost, it is true that some information can be replaced by hearing. But it is definately not 80%. It is likely at least 30-40% less. Furthermore, obtaining such information from other senses is not as precise as the originally processing sense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353871#p353871 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-26
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? After finding Jonathan Mosen's post from 2013, and reading about how he is still able to cross busy streets with his hearing aids, I thought of something which had come to me a few months before.I was talking to a friend of mine on Skype, and we were talking about how I always used a street crossing card to solicit assistance when I went to work. In my last IEP records, they stated that it had worked like a charm. So, I was thinking, why not set up a building, similar to a garage, or better yet, create a space on a deserted block. On top of the roof inside the building, there would be a wide array of surround sound speakers. They might also be in the walls if that was easier. Then, an O instructor, an audiologist or some other hearing aid technologist can work with the hearing aid wearer on a street crossing simulation. You would stand at an intersection, and above you or next to you would be the speakers. Someone in the control room would manipulate the directions from which audio of the traffic came. When you heard the traffic surging from the speakers beside you, and you know it is parallel traffic, you can cross the street. If you make a mistake, like, due to silent cars that were turning onto the street you were crossing, it would not be dangerous because it was only a simulation.If I remember correctly, I think I heard somewhere that something like that might already be in existence, but I know not. I will have to look into it some more. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353849#p353849 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-26
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I take a great delight in perusing over the arguments raised by Enes, portraying blindness as a tragedy, rather than a mere physical nuisance. But, let's add something else to the mix. Remember post 135, where I initially talked about people who are not only blind, but people with combined disabilities? Yes, Jonathan Mosen has Norries, and in a 2013-2014 blog post, I can't remember which one, he had expressed his views about the lack of audio quality for podcasting when one wears hearing aids. http://mosen.org/now-hear-this-musings- … id-wearer/ URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353818#p353818 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Re: tools, I'm at this moment standing by a bookshelf I made, where the only other assistance was another blind person helping to keep it from falling apart while we put the clamps on during the glue-drying phase. None of the tools were modified for accessibility. The worst thing that happened is that I got overcautious at one point with the banding iron and burned one of my knuckles, which I imagine at least 1 of 10 sighted people would have done at some point.When it comes to alternative techniques, I think Enes is saying that they're almost always inferior in some way—speed being the most apparent (the fastest Braille readers are still slower than the average print reader, for example). Exactly which alternatives are always inferior or limiting might not be so clear-cut, but, yeah, cars are the most obvious one. An hour walk would be 3-6 minutes by car, and driving in the rain is much nicer than walking in the rain (Why have I still not bought rainboots?). Canes are an extra item, taking up a hand, which need to be stored somewhere out of the way when not in use. Assistive technology such as Jaws or Braille devices multiply the cost of computers, while getting practically none of the graphics power that is part of the price of the original device. Whether or not one would say these are inferior, performance wise, they still inflict an additional cost, which, while reduced in a world where the blind market was more like the sighted market, would not go away. (Unless that hypothetical market made innovation accelerate dramatically enough to offset the cost, but no sense in relying on markets to deliver miracles.)That said, I imagine we'd still disagree over more specific nonvisual techniques, though which specifically, I'm not sure.Re: multiple disabilities, I agree not enough effort seems to have gone into such not-so-uncommon cases. I will say that there was a client at LCB in 2016 with hearing loss and a guide dog, and I got the impression they were treated more reasonably than most, according to the stories. I don't know what accommodations were made for the hearing loss, but they seemed OK with not taking their dog on assignments, while using said dog everywhere else, and didn't take grief over it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353819#p353819 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Re: tools, I'm at this moment standing by a bookshelf I made, where the only other assistance was another blind person helping to keep it from falling apart while we put the clamps on during the glue-drying phase. None of the tools were modified for accessibility. The worst thing that happened is that I got overcautious at one point with the banding iron and burned one of my knuckles, which I imagine at least 1 of 10 sighted people would have done at some point.When it comes to alternative techniques, I think Enes is saying that they're almost always inferior in some way—speed being the most apparent (the fastest Braille readers are still slower than the average print reader, for example). Exactly which alternatives are always inferior or limiting might not be so clear-cut, but, yeah, cars are the most obvious one. An hour walk would be 3-6 minutes by car, and driving in the rain is much nicer than walking in the rain (Why have I still not bought rainboots?). Canes are an extra item, taking up a hand, which need to be stored somewhere out of the way when not in use. Assistive technology such as Jaws or Braille devices multiply the cost of computers, while getting practically none of the graphics power that is part of the price of the original device. Whether or not one would say these are inferior, performance wise, they still inflict an additional cost, which, while reduced in a world where the blind market was more like the sighted market, would not go away. (Unless that hypothetical market made innovation accelerate dramatically enough to offset the cost, but no sense in relying on markets to deliver miracles.) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353819#p353819 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I take a great delight in perusing over the arguments raised by Enes, portraying blindness as a tragedy, rather than a mere physical nuisance. But, let's add something else to the mix. Remember post 135, where I initially talked about people who are not only blind, but people with combined disabilities? Yes, Jonathan Mosen has Norries, and in a 2013-2014 blog post, I can't remember which one, he had expressed his views about the lack of audio quality for podcasting when one wears hearing aids. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353818#p353818 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I've always understood, both from reading and from personal experience, that how much or whether blindness is a disability or an inconvenience is largely up to the individual's own atitudes rather than any hard and fast rules.First of all, my current level of vision is that if I focus a bit, I can just barely make out sources of light, otherwise, I won't notice a window on a bright sunny day.For example, from my own experience, recently I had to go to a doctor's office for some physical therapy for a shoulder injury. Since I had been there twice before with a sighted person to guide me, I didn't have Aira then, I knew the layout of the building and could find and use the elevators to get to the right floor and to find the right office on that floor, all without assistance.On my last visit, there was another blind person there. He had been coming to the building for months for some other medical reason, but was totally helpless, he still had to be guided by a sighted assistant Further, from the conversation I learned that he was only partially blind and had been that for far longer than I'd been blind. The impression I got was that he was letting his vision impairment define him as completely helpless or fully disabled, and allowing an assistant to do everything for him, he seemed like he wasn't even willing to try. While I, on the otherhand, do my best to make my blindness only an inconvenience, and like somebody else here on the forums, don't let my blindness stop me from doing whatever I want..---Did I hear somebody correctly? They said something to the effect that the blind can't use tools. I live alone in a one bedroom apartment, and have for as long as I can remember. For minor maintenance tasks, I do the work myself because the management here leaves a lot to be desired, taking months to do even the simplest of maintenance tasks. Some examples of simple tasks I've done myself are:* Changed the rubber flapper valve in the toilet tank, no tools required, but still.* Installed a bidet on the toilet, no tools should have been required but somebody used a wrench on one of the fittings and over tightened it.* Installed a wall bracket for an aerosol fire extinguisher, cordless drill and cordless screwdriver.* Installed a set of broom and mop holders on a wall in the storage closet, cordless drill and a cordless screwdriver.* Replaced a screen and install a grille on the front screen door. Tool to press the rubber tubing that holds the screen cloth in place, razor knife to trim excess screen cloth, cordless drill, and cordless screwdriver.Tools? Despite being blind, I have no problems using them. On top of that I know a number of blind people who do woodworking as a hobby, and they are quite good at it. Talk about tools! One guy I know has converted his garage into a complete woodworking shop with lots of power tools, and his walls are covered with all kinds of hand tools as well, no matter the task, he's got the tool for it. He makes the nicest furnature.---And what's wrong with having to find ways of doing things without the benefit of sight? Would you rather be dependant on some one else to do those things? Even sighted people have to find and learn their own way to do some things, why shouldn't a blind person be able to do the same for themselves?---Those reports that say that sighted people get 80% of their information through their eyes, and that that means a blind person is missing 80% of the world is patently wrong from very flawed thinking.Sure, a sighted person probably does get 80% of their information about the world around them through their eyes, but that is 80% out of the full 100% of information they gather. Take out the eyes due to blindness and the pie doesn't suddently drop to only 20%, no, the other senses will adjust to fill in the missing 80%. So instead of the ears providing 10% of the sensory information in a sighted person, they might provide 50% to a blind person, touch might go from 5% to 20%, and so on.Some information is lost simply because it is purely visual, but a lot of information about your surroundings can still be obtained using your other senses.For example, to get to the grocery store next door, I have to find and follow several walls. A sighted person would just look at the walls to find and follow them. But I find and follow them just as easily using my ears to hear the sounds echoing off them that sighted people don't hear because they don't need to. Do I feel handicapped or disabled or incapable because I can't see the walls? No! Despite my tinnitus, which isn't all that bad, my ears work just fine so I can hear the walls and get to the grocery store with no problem.---I could go on with other examples from my own experiences to debunk the claims made as to why the NFB's "commandments" are so wrong, but I think I've said enough to make my point.---And finally. I don't know if it was
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? hi,I will respond here.Firstly, comparing blindness to being an african american in the 19th century is like comparing oranges and apples. There is really no relationship, other than the imaginary ones people seem to suit their ideologies with. Firstly, the major difference is that race is indeed a neutral concept, unlike blindness which is a physical disability. Unlike blindness, being chinese, or african american, or native american do not affect your biological capabilities, or your physical limitations. Blindness, is not neutral, it is inherently bad, as it puts you at a direct disadvantages with sighted peers, furthermore it places physical limitations on what you can do. African americans were barred from performing many tasks by the society in the Us at the time. This was completely different. I really can't believe the nonsense people spew sometimes.Furthermore, on selecting deaf children, here is an article as proof that this happening. https://www.theguardian.com/science/200 … alresearchalso thishttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/ … vidteatherThis is really sick. Reading these seriously makes my blood boil, for reasons I will explain. I will begin by saying that having a baby, and not utilizing the appropriate medical treatments is, and should be legally considered parental abuse. This is no different than tieing your child to a post and isolating them from the world. The reason is this. Anyone here who has studied linguistics to moderate levels will know that there is a critical period for the acquisition of the first language. What a critical period is is that if a certain thing won't happen in development of an organism, it is impossible to regain that function after a time. In other words, the changes are perminent. Language is one such function. The critical period for language is up to 5 years. What this means is that children need exposure to language at these years to develop, they need to hear the language, or see it, in the case of sign language. By not allowing their child to be exposed to spoken language, these parents are perminently, irreversably ruining their child's life, by isolating them from at least 90% of the world who uses spoken language as a medium. Even if this child decides to get cochliar implementation when he/she is legally allowed to do so, he/she will never be able to learn how to speak, or to use language, due to closing of the critical period window of language acquisition. This is criminal, to the highest extent. The largest proof of the critical period comes from Geni, a child who was tied to a post, and isolated from the world by her father for 12 years before being found. Read more here.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)Even though she was stimulated to learn language, she was ultimately unsuccessful.As for disability and society, I would say that disability is 30% society, and 70% biological and physically limiting. As for alternative techniques, yes they are inferior most of the time to their sighted counterparts. For instance accessibility. Accessibility will always be merely a shadow of true visual access to the GUI. Assisibility technologies, and other alternative methods try to imitate the regular technique. As for driving, it is the most independant form of travel, which blind people are deprived from. And public transportation, and walking can be much more inconvenient compared to it. I would advise you to look at the world, not through an ideology, which is built on falsehoods, butt independantly, and neutrally. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353810#p353810 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I think we're having the sort of branching conversations that reddit is better for than forums, .It's been said that it's very difficult, if not impossible with current technology, to resolve the precise balance of nature vs nurture, since the magnitude of the impact of one or the other will vary wildly depending on [strike]luck[/strike] circumstance. I'm not sure how much that generalizes to blindness, since visual acuity can be measured.It's hard to quantify, precisely, but I think it might help if we could put numbers on it—what percentage of the problems related to blindness that you experience do you believe are inherent to blindness, and what percent are the result of social forces?My top-of-the-head answer is something like 80% social, but I'd need to take a few minutes to break it down in more detail before giving my final answer.(If you have more categories besides those two, go ahead and include those ! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353803#p353803 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @enesMost of your examples of why the NFB's "commandments" are wrong are simply misguided and uninformed people making bad decisions that do not in any way represent what the NFB is about.And most of your other examples are just your opinion, which is meaningless in this discussion because I seriously doubt that what you think represents the NFB's view either.But since you've already decided that you are right and the NFB is wrong, there really is no point in discussing this any further with you.Bye. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353800#p353800 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? The wording, though. "Normal" is a fuzzy, context-dependent concept, but the way it's generally used, it's pretty hard to say that blindness is "normal". That's not just because most people think of blindness as abnormal, but because all the blind people in the world are, what, less than 5% of the population? There would be advantages to normalizing extreme rarities such as blindness, but too much normalizing could conceivably reduce encouragement for relevant medical research and treatments.re: children with disabilities. The deaf I get, even if I do not agree, because of the ways in which hearing loss affect communication. Linguistic isolation is a good way to develop a distinct culture. For blindness, though, the only reason to prefer passing on a hereditary eye condition is to encourage the passing on of nonvisual life skills, which isn't what I'd call a good reason to select the blind embryo over the others! However, I would not encourage actively avoiding passing on a disability if and only if the parents know based on clear evidence that their child(ren) will be able to take it without major reduction in quality of life, and I suspect those conditions are very rarely met. However, that push when Eugenics was still in for maried couples with hereditary blindness to not have children was a terrible idea, since generations of blind parents is a good place to expect the relevant knowledge to accumulate. Also I object to mandatory antinatalism on principal. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353799#p353799 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? [[wow]].I am away doing other things for a little and I come back.It depends on what you guys call minor and probably has to do with your location more than anything else.I do have a cane ofcause and I strive to not be guided, I do still use guides, a cane is no good on the grass and in crouds I have my mum or others holding my cane so people don't trip over it.Where I can sence the crouds will be to large I simply don't use cane as its just to difficult to even bother using.While I have had trouble with the local blind services they are quite tame to say the nfb.Ofcause being an adult I am expected to ask for assistance not given it.Still I am given free things.I am not entitled feeling or expect free things but I am happy if I don't have to pay for something.One thing as long as you after recieving a free thing help someone else then it does work out.As for cars and driving, self driving vehicles are round the corner sooner or later no one will need to drive like we do.As for the rest of it.Blindness could be a desese some conditions are genetic.You can't catch blindness, you could catch viruses that could cause blindness but hmmm its not a big issue.How major is blindness.As long as you accept your limitations, I can't drive, maintain things, use tools and a few other things then its fine.It is a major issue ofcause but not as major as having no brain, being deaf to, being unable to walk.If anyone here thinks blind ness is a major issue go see the movie breathe you don't need audio description to get the gist and look it up on wikipedia.You should also listen to interviews about the main character.You will then know what major is!Being blind in the grand scheme of things if thats all you are is not a major thing, in fact its quite minor.Now as a kid to a teen and through certain stages of life it was major to me.A lot of things have improved since then.Grabbing all chances was one of the hardest things I found hard to do.I do sadly have those in my family 1 person that says because I am blind that its just to hard to work and I am slower.I accept that getting a job and keeping is a challenge especially with how things stack for normals these days.However sadly, as soon as you are disabled some people assume you get a job because people feel sorry for you, or that they want to make themselves feel good and this is not the case.Now here in new zealand we do have some millitant elements, we also have a few supportive elements.For whatever reason we have managed to get a ballance which has got things done to a point things could always be better but even so.Sometimes I liken nfb to the un, resolutions are passed.Sometimes they have effect but sometimes not, in fact most are probably never followed at all.Forcing someone to do something doesn't mean well that they will do it or do it to the best of their ability.I am happy we live in a place where a lot of the mainstream tech is now usable by us.Software wise its all on marketing, and what is used.Not much we can do about that.In the end users must do things themselves and tell whoever what it is and ask them to look at it mostly they listen. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353797#p353797 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I am going to respond to what you have said. I am not trying to change your opinion; I just want to explain what exactly the NFB is advocating, and what they mean by their statements.James Omvig wrote:(3)the physical condition of blindness is nothing more than a normal, human 'characteristicenes wrote:This is one which really is out of touch with reality. There is nothing normal about blindness. Furthermore, blindness is not a characteristic.Kenneth Jernigan gave a whole speech on this very subject, and in that speech, he said, "By definition a characteristic-any characteristic-is a limitation." But then he asks, "Are blind people more limited than others?" I believe that the answer, as with all characteristics, depends on many variables. In America for most of the nineteenth century, being an African American would not have been a very desirable characteristic because it is highly likely that you would have been enslaved. Today, I would argue that it is far less of a negative characteristic. In the past, blindness was likewise far more limiting than it is now, because we now have access to far more information than we would have had even twenty years ago.enes wrote:It can encourage people to have disabled children over regular children, which some among the deaf are doing, using IVF, to implant specificly chosen deaf embryos, and then forgoing treatment to make them perminently deaf.I would have thought that most people, given the choice, would not actively choose to have children with disability.enes wrote:Here is also a blog post from jonathan mosen, where he talks about how excited he is about the possibility of having grandchildren with norrie disease, which is a disease that causes blindness, and possibly deafness and mental impairment.http://mosen.org/why-im-excited-about-h … dchildren/This should demonstrate my point.I don't think this is what he is saying; he just said that he would not feel very bad about it because of the increased accessibility of today's world, but he is just one out of over 300 million people in the world with vision impairment.James Omvig wrote:(4) given "proper training" and opportunity, the average blind person can do the average job in the average place of business, can have a family, can be a tax paying and participating citizen and can be in every way a contributing member of society who can compete on terms of absolute equality with his or her sighted neighborsenes wrote:This is also disconnected from reality. The truth of the matter is, even if blind people have access to everything a sighted person has, we will never be on equal footing with sighted people.Why not? If a blind person has gone to college and has found a job with a large company and has all of the necessary information in an accessible format, or if there is an easy way to get access to the information, why is he not equal to a sighted person doing the same job in the same place of business?enes wrote:We do almost everything slower than a sighted person with comparable skill.I would attribute at least some of this slowness due to the lower expectations placed on blind people than sighted people.James Omvig wrote:(5) with proper training and opportunity, blindness is not a tragedy. It literally can be reduced to the level of a physical 'inconvenience' or 'nuisance'enes wrote:This is also completely false. As been stated numerous times, by me and others in this topic, blindness is most definitely not a minor nuisance. It is a major disability which affects everything you do, as well as the way you choose to do it, and even in some cases, e.g, driving, whether you can do it at all.I agree that it does affect some parts of life quite significantly. We can't drive (but we could get public transportation, and with self-driving cars, this will become less of a problem), we can't pick up a book and read it (but this is constantly changing for the better) and we can't just pick up a box of something in the supermarket and know what it is (but technology mostly mitigates this problem). However, we can't fill out paperwork and we can't sometimes use technology that we want to use, but what else? Just because we use alternative techniques to perform a task does not mean that our methods for doing things are inferior to those done by sighted people. This is also explored in Freedom for the Blind. If you can think of something that is complicated significantly by blindness, then I would agree that it is a limitation placed on us by our blindness, but by and large, in developed countries, we are quite able to live with our blindness only being a second thought most of the time.James Omvig wrote:(6) the actual, physical limitations associated with the characteristic of blindness can easily be overcome by using 'alternative techniques' for doing without sight what you would do with sight if you had itenes wrote:Second, there are not
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I thought the ambassador thing was folded into 10, which, yeah, that is unfair and obnoxious, and is a function of the increased statistical weight a single member of a group has as the group gets smaller. That's a problem that is apparent to just about every visible minority, and it is troublesome that groups like the NFB seem to encourage ambassadorship when everyone without a pathological need to be special would generally prefer otherwise. (#notAllAmbassadorsAreLikeThat )The social model of disability is clearly not correct, but I think this is more the nature vs nurture thing as applied to blindness, and in that sense, I feel like reality is much closer to the social model than you seem to. Mostly I just want to do my own thing without having to run to my parents or some random civilian for every little thing, and the truth is that this is almost as possible as it is for, say, a traveler who took a plane somewhere and didn't bother with a rental car. Shopping less so, if you'd need to read labels (and you generally do), unless you use one of the latest apps and take 3× as long as everyone else. Otherwise, my main issues are people. (Also not having much money and wanting to make games with graphics.) I'd definitely prefer more braille and better braille tech, but I'm not going to go demanding people retrofit their buildings and make signs that are easy to find with a cane but not your face, or that Google share some of their billions to make braille/tactile tech be halfway decent. ... Wait, no, I'd totally tell Google to do that, if they ever asked for my opinion . But I agree it's unreasonable to throw a fit over it and people who do tend to make us all look bad more than they accomplish anything.I will grant you that my house needs some repairs, which I have not gotten around to because my options are to either bug family about it, hire someone to do it, or obtain all the tools and materials (which would probably mean going to a hardware store and hoping no one questions the blind person buying a box of nails etc) and feeling around places that the wildlife has taken a fondness to. Also I'm a little unhappy about the facd that doing it right would require ejecting the stray cats who hide under my house in bad weather (and probably deter rodents and snakes), but mostly I want to minimize unwanted questions or encounters with critters. Whereas if I could see, even without a car, the hardware store would not be the least bit anxiety-inducing, and I'd be able to spot things that might bite sting or otherwise inconvenience me without doing anything special to protect myself. Half of that problem is a psychosocial one, and the other half is because of blindness directly. OTOH, how many sighted people would do it themselves, instead of hiring a repairman? I'd rather do it myself, just because I like that sort of thing, but I'm kinda caught between an unpleasant society and a hornets' nest. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353793#p353793 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I am going to respond to what you have said. I am not trying to change your opinion; I just want to explain what exactly the NFB is advocating, and what they mean by their statements.James Omvig wrote:(3)the physical condition of blindness is nothing more than a normal, human 'characteristicenes wrote:This is one which really is out of touch with reality. There is nothing normal about blindness. Furthermore, blindness is not a characteristic.Kenneth Jernigan gave a whole speech on this very subject, and in that speech, he said, "By definition a characteristic-any characteristic-is a limitation." But then he asks, "Are blind people more limited than others?" I believe that the answer, as with all characteristics, depends on many variables. In America for most of the nineteenth century, being an African American would not have been a very desirable characteristic because it is highly likely that you would have been enslaved. Today, I would argue that it is far less of a negative characteristic. In the past, blindness was likewise far more limiting than it is now, because we now have access to far more information than we would have had even twenty years ago.enes wrote:It can encourage people to have disabled children over regular children, which some among the deaf are doing, using IVF, to implant specificly chosen deaf embryos, and then forgoing treatment to make them perminently deaf.I would have thought that most people, given the choice, would not actively choose to have children with disability.enes wrote:Here is also a blog post from jonathan mosen, where he talks about how excited he is about the possibility of having grandchildren with norrie disease, which is a disease that causes blindness, and possibly deafness and mental impairment.http://mosen.org/why-im-excited-about-h … dchildren/This should demonstrate my point.Jonathan Mosen was actually interviewed a few years ago, and asked to explain his opinion. I can't link to it because the interview is no longer online, but please believe me when I say that he did not want to have a grandchild with disability; he just said that he would not feel very bad about it because of the increased accessibility of today's world.James Omvig wrote:(4) given "proper training" and opportunity, the average blind person can do the average job in the average place of business, can have a family, can be a tax paying and participating citizen and can be in every way a contributing member of society who can compete on terms of absolute equality with his or her sighted neighborsenes wrote:This is also disconnected from reality. The truth of the matter is, even if blind people have access to everything a sighted person has, we will never be on equal footing with sighted people.Why not? If a blind person has gone to college and has found a job with a large company and has all of the necessary information in an accessible format, or if there is an easy way to get access to the information, why is he not equal to a sighted person doing the same job in the same place of business?enes wrote:We do almost everything slower than a sighted person with comparable skill.I would attribute at least some of this slowness due to the lower expectations placed on blind people than sighted people.James Omvig wrote:(5) with proper training and opportunity, blindness is not a tragedy. It literally can be reduced to the level of a physical 'inconvenience' or 'nuisance'enes wrote:This is also completely false. As been stated numerous times, by me and others in this topic, blindness is most definitely not a minor nuisance. It is a major disability which affects everything you do, as well as the way you choose to do it, and even in some cases, e.g, driving, whether you can do it at all.I agree that it does affect some parts of life quite significantly. We can't drive (but we could get public transportation, and with self-driving cars, this is becoming less of a problem), we can't pick up a book and read it (but this is constantly changing for the better), we can't just pick up a box of something in the supermarket and know what it is (but technology mostly mitigates this problem), but what else? Everything I have mentioned here has a workaround, and just because we use alternative techniques to perform a task does not mean that our methods for doing things are inferior to those done by sighted people. This is also explored in Freedom for the Blind. If you can think of something that is complicated significantly by blindness, then I would agree that it is a limitation placed on us by our blindness, but by and large, in developed countries, we are quite able to live with our blindness only being a second thought most of the time.James Omvig wrote:(6) the actual, physical limitations associated with the characteristic of blindness can easily be overcome by using 'alternative techniques' for doing without sight
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I would disagree. The ambassador of the blind crap, as well as the socialization of disability is also quite bad. So is the portrayal of blindness of something minor.These creeds are quite bad in my opinion, and they aren't just an idea. People can choose to take actions beleaving in this crap. For instance, I listened to a rare disease conference, in which a carrier of a genetic disease, with blindness, as well as mental impairment and hearing loss as symptoms lamented that she couldn't get pregnant with another person with the disease. May I also mention that she also had two aflicted family members in a nursing home? This is just sick, with the truest sense of the word in my opinion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353787#p353787 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I would disagree. The ambassador of the blind crap, as well as the socialization of disability is also quite bad. So is the portrayal of blindness of something minor. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353787#p353787 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Hmm. I stand corrected. That list could use some "almost"s. 6 in particular is hyperbolic without an "almost" or "nearly" or "the vast majority of", due to things like nonverbal communication and visual art. 3 is outright wrong, and 7 is not all that clear but I think Enes covered that pretty well.But the rest seem fine at face value, even though you know there are plenty who use 10 to irritate everyone. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353780#p353780 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? here is a study, done by the max plank institue for psycholinguistics, which also shows that there is a clear dominance of vision over all other senseshttps://www.mpg.de/8849014/hierarchy-senses URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353776#p353776 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? hi,Sure. Here is that post.(3) the physical condition of blindness is nothing more than a normal, human 'characteristic,' This is one which really is out of touch with reality. There is nothing normal about blindness. Furthermore, blindness is not a characteristic. It is arguably one of the most serious disabilities. This view of blindness as a neutral characteristic is dangerous. It can encourage people to have disabled children over regular children, which some among the deaf are doing, using IVF, to implant specificly chosen deaf embryos, and then forgoing treatment to make them perminently deaf. Here is also a blog post from jonathan mosen, where he talks about how excited he is about the possibility of having grandchildren with norrie disease, which is a disease that causes blindness, and possibly deafness and mental impairment.http://mosen.org/why-im-excited-about-h … dchildren/This should demonstrate my point.(4) given "proper training" and opportunity, the average blind person can do the average job in the average place of business, can have a family, can be a tax paying and participating citizen and can be in every way a contributing member of society who can compete on terms of absolute equality with his or her sighted neighbors;This is also disconnected from reality. The truth of the matter is, even if blind people have access to everything a sighted person has, we will never be on equal footing with sighted people. Having access does not make one equal. We do almost everything slower than a sighted person with comparable skill. Having a screen reader does not make the disability disappear. This time difference will always be there, unless in the distant future everyone gets brain implants, in which case this conversation can be had again.(5) with proper training and opportunity, blindness is not a tragedy. It literally can be reduced to the level of a physical 'inconvenience' or 'nuisance'; This is also completely false. As been stated numerous times, by me and others in this topic, blindness is most definitely not a minor nuisance. It is a major disability which affects everything you do, as well as the way you choose to do it, and even in some cases, e.g, driving, whether you can do it at all.(6) the actual, physical limitations associated with the characteristic of blindness can easily be overcome by using 'alternative techniques' for doing without sight what you would do with sight if you had it; Same as previous. Firstly, blindness isn't a characteristic. Second, there are not always alternative techniques in doing everything, reading the body language, or facial expressions of people around you for example. In the remaining cases, it can take a longer amount of time to accomplish the same.(7) the concept of the 'hierarchy of sight' ... is nothing more than a myth and is completely false; Out of all of the creeds of this cult, this one is by far the dumbest. Science has consistently shown that there is indeed a hierarchy of senses, with sight being at the top. It is estimated that 80% of environmental information obtained by a sighted person comes from sight. Furthermore, it is also known that sight overrides all other senses, in terms of processing in the brain. I will believe the word of science, not the myths of a crackpot ideology.(8) ... 'IT IS RESPECTABLE TO BE BLIND,' and the blind, themselves, are primarily responsible for pushing back the frontiers of ignorance and changing what it means to be blind in the broader society; There is nothing respectable about being blind, just like there is no respect in being born in a certain place. Also, I am not an ambassador of the blind, I am only responsible for my own well being. Noone has the right to impose ambassadorial duties on me (10) the "real" problem of blindness is not the physical loss of eyesight at all, but rather is to be found in the wide range of societal misunderstandings and misconceptions about blindness shared by the blind and sighted alike ..."While it is true that society's atitude does have impact on a blind person's life, a majority of the hardships experienced by the blind are unrelated to society, and are completely due to the actual physical limitation of the disability. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353774#p353774 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I have to wonder if the people here are vilifying the NFB off the words an or actions of a few misguided members rather than getting the organization's views from the organization itself.enes wrote:the so ccalled creed of the NFB is likely written by a person seriously out of touch with reality. Some of those commandments are so wrong on so many levels.How so? Care to explain yourself? It's easy to say they are wrong, especially when you don't back up such statements with meaningful arguements to support your view. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353728#p353728 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? To answer the point about the book series.Got in touch with the author after I posted that to clarify. Here's the CLiffs Notes version:1. The character in question is written a certain way for plot and character reasons and she's not rewritten it to please the NFB2. The NFB also objected to the mere concept of the character having a seeing eye dog, completely missing the point that it...ya know, helps with the very thing the NFB are preaching.3. Said character is ensconced in a Victorian-era society and is very high up in the social order, so yes people do things for him, which the NFB objected to a king (which the character in question is) having servants and a butler who help out and cook and do housework. Which is, by the way, how things were, if you had servants and were high up in the aristocracy in, say, Victorian era timesyou didn't lift a finger, the servants did all the work and you took the credit. So that's accurate.Also the NFB objected, at least in part to the idea of that character hitching a ride with other characters. their general mantra was well he should drive. To which the author responded no, he's blind for a specific reason as far as the backstory goes. He's not driving, he rides with the rest of his people and that's that.Oh also siaid author in question was heavily invovled with hospitals up in NY/Mass/Boston area by the way so she knows first hand how blind people are.worked Additionally...the ADA doesn't cover every single eventuality. though, if you check the specific wording, there's a crapton of loopholes and issues with it. If the NFB wanted to not give out, say, a harness for a guide dog, they'd find the specific part to justify not giving it out according to the ADA and wave that around.Additionally, a comment I saw on Twitter has blind people up in arms that sighted announcers are caling goalball games. The reply from somebody working for a TV network was priceless, pointing out announcers need to see what they're talking about. Hey, college radio could take a hint from those guys URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353725#p353725 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? hi,At 144, the so ccalled creed of the NFB is likely written by a person seriously out of touch with reality. Some of those commandments are so wrong on so many levels. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353719#p353719 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Here's what I fail to understand about the hypocracy of the NFB. They say they want blind people to be independent, and they turn down people who ask for assistance. The problem is, sighted people ask for assistance all the time. If sighted people can use a GPS, ride Uber Lyft, or whatever, why shouldn't blind people be the same? Why does the NFB want to forbid the use of audible and tactile pedestrian signals, human guides, or discourage blind people from using GPS, Uber or Lyft?I spoke to one person who said they didn't want to rely on others to drive them, that they preferred to cross streets and take rebular public transit. They are in Australia. I did hear that Australian lights are comprised of devices that have a pulsating sound, partly due to the relay circuits, similar to those found in an MRI machine or a mechanical thermostat. This same person said they wouldn't mind having a guide dog. So, here's what puzzles me. Why would you let an animal guide you, but not a human? Does it have to do with the fact that dogs are fully devoted to you, without expecting anything from you in return?I might be going to the convention and I might pretend to only use American Sign Language to convince people I am completely deaf. That way, I would get a human guide. At the end of the convention, I would reveal that I do in fact, have some residual hearing, but only when I have hearing aids or a personal sound amplifier.I once read a book about a blind business individual named Michael Hingson, who, with his guide dog Roselle, evacuated the 78th story of the World Trade Centre, North tower on 9/11. On the back, he included some text by Kennith Jernigan, who said that blindness was like being left-handed. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353700#p353700 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Australian traffic signals provide audio-tactile feedback. You can hear an example of one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0cz1XW9QvEI am not sure if you're saying that the NFB wouldn't provide you with an amplification device at the convention, because that would seem like a violation of the ADA.The NFB definitely wants people to use Uber and Lyft. They even took Uber to court over it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353702#p353702 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? CAE_Jones, I think you are talking about this speech that Kenneth Jernigan gave at a national convention: https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications … dres93.htmIf you were to read the book Freedom for the Blind, it would appear that there are NFB "commandments", which I have reprinted here:"(1) blind people are simply 'normal,' ordinary people who cannot see; (2) the blind are merely a 'cross-section' of society as a whole ...; (3) the physical condition of blindness is nothing more than a normal, human 'characteristic,' ...; (4) given "proper training" and opportunity, the average blind person can do the average job in the average place of business, can have a family, can be a tax paying and participating citizen and can be in every way a contributing member of society who can compete on terms of absolute equality with his or her sighted neighbors;(5) with proper training and opportunity, blindness is not a tragedy. It literally can be reduced to the level of a physical 'inconvenience' or 'nuisance'; (6) the actual, physical limitations associated with the characteristic of blindness can easily be overcome by using 'alternative techniques' for doing without sight what you would do with sight if you had it; (7) the concept of the 'hierarchy of sight' ... is nothing more than a myth and is completely false; (8) ... 'IT IS RESPECTABLE TO BE BLIND,' and the blind, themselves, are primarily responsible for pushing back the frontiers of ignorance and changing what it means to be blind in the broader society; (9) 'You can't have your cake and eat it, too.' ...; ... (10) the "real" problem of blindness is not the physical loss of eyesight at all, but rather is to be found in the wide range of societal misunderstandings and misconceptions about blindness shared by the blind and sighted alike ..."One version of the book can be accessed here: https://nfb.org/Images/nfb/documents/wo … _LBF28.docI believe that their philosophy may have changed slightly since the publication of this book, but the underlying principles remain the same. I would like to ask those of you who say that the NFB is not advocating independence what you see in these statements to support your view. In fact, there are whole sections in this book explaining the nature of independence. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353699#p353699 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Here's what I fail to understand about the hypocracy of the NFB. They say they want blind people to be independent, and they turn down people who ask for assistance. The problem is, sighted people ask for assistance all the time. If sighted people can use a GPS, ride Uber Lyft, or whatever, why shouldn't blind people be the same? Why does the NFB want to forbid the use of audible and tactile pedestrian signals, human guides, or discourage blind people from using GPS, Uber or Lyft?I spoke to one person who said they didn't want to rely on others to drive them, that they preferred to cross streets and take rebular public transit. They are in Australia. I did hear that Australian lights are comprised of devices that have a pulsating sound, partly due to the relay circuits, similar to those found in an MRI machine or a mechanical thermostat. This same person said they wouldn't mind having a guide dog. So, here's what puzzles me. Why would you let an animal guide you, but not a human? Does it have to do with the fact that dogs are fully devoted to you, without expecting anything from you in return?I might be going to the convention and I might pretend to only use American Sign Language to convince people I am completely deaf. That way, I would get a human guide. At the end of the convention, I would reveal that I do in fact, have some residual hearing, but only when I have hearing aids or a personal sound amplifier. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353700#p353700 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? CAE_Jones, he said those statements about independent travel at a national convention: https://nfb.org/images/nfb/publications … dres93.htmIf you were to read the book Freedom for the Blind, it would appear that there are NFB "commandments", which I have reprinted here:" (1) blind people are simply 'normal,' ordinary people who cannot see; (2) the blind are merely a 'cross-section' of society as a whole ...; (3) the physical condition of blindness is nothing more than a normal, human 'characteristic,' ...; (4) given "proper training" and opportunity, the average blind person can do the average job in the average place of business, can have a family, can be a tax paying and participating citizen and can be in every way a contributing member of society who can compete on terms of absolute equality with his or her sighted neighbors; (5) with proper training and opportunity, blindness is not a tragedy. It literally can be reduced to the level of a physical 'inconvenience' or 'nuisance'; (6) the actual, physical limitations associated with the characteristic of blindness can easily be overcome by using 'alternative techniques' for doing without sight what you would do with sight if you had it; (7) the concept of the 'hierarchy of sight' ... is nothing more than a myth and is completely false; (8) ... 'IT IS RESPECTABLE TO BE BLIND,' and the blind, themselves, are primarily responsible for pushing back the frontiers of ignorance and changing what it means to be blind in the broader society; (9) 'You can't have your cake and eat it, too.' ...; ... (10) the "real" problem of blindness is not the physical loss of eyesight at all, but rather is to be found in the wide range of societal misunderstandings and misconceptions about blindness shared by the blind and sighted alike ...One version of the book can be accessed here: https://nfb.org/Images/nfb/documents/wo … _LBF28.docI believe that their philosophy may have changed slightly since the publication of this book, but the underlying principles remain the same. I would like to ask those of you who say that the NFB is not advocating independence what you see in these statements to support your view. In fact, there are whole sections in this book explaining the nature of independence. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353699#p353699 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Religion is starting to feel like an appropriate comparison. The WBC vs a random church, Desh vs a random Mosque, those random people who show up to evangelize to you (or conspicuously pray for you in public) vs the thousands of religious people you passed who didn't do that. The dogmatic angry activist Federationist vs the person who goes to chapter meetings because they have friends there and it's a place to hear about events and whatever.There's a Kenneth Jernigan recording somewhere, where he's talking to people (I think this was a seminar at the Iowa school?) about sighted guide. Mostly because he used a guide to get to the podium for some of his speeches, and some Federationists criticized him for it. His speeches tend to capture that angry activist spirit with a strong hint of a preacher giving a sermon, and he was the president of the NFB for decades, so what even is going on, here? Was he a hypocrite, or does the fact that he let himself be recorded talking about it to a random group of trainees suggest that he, at least, was not so dogmatic about it as the loud evangelists? I mean, the NFB doesn't have a list of commandments, that I'm aware, so where do you draw the line?(Lest you think this is a purely pro NFB post: at the 2016 national convention, I overheard a couple guys talking about how nursing homes are a great place to "make friends," because inheritance. This is more a "dude, you're generalizing way too hard based on availability bias." thing.) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353696#p353696 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? While I believe that the NFB is rather militant in the way they go about some of their campaigns, that's not to say that I object to what they are doing and should be disbanded as some here are saying. I applaud what they are doing for the blind and visually impaired, I just wish they weren't so militant about it. You attract more bees with honey than with vinegar. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353690#p353690 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? JaceK, I don't know what series of books you are talking about, but my guess is that the reason the NFB wanted the author to rewrite the character is because he is not representative of blind people as a whole. When authors create characters, who, using your example, get their meals cooked for them and get driven around everywhere, the sighted world is shown that blind people as a whole cannot cook for themselves and cannot travel without being chauffeured everywhere. Frankly, I would like to know what series of books this is, because you are describing a character who, through your description of him, does not seem very independent at all. The belief of the NFB is that, if we allow authors to continually portray blind people as dependent on others, then the sighted world will think that all blind people rely on sighted people. This is why the NFB organizes campaigns such as Meet the Blind Month every October to show the world that blind people are "ordinary people who happen to be blind". URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353686#p353686 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? At Orko, it was definitely Braille, I remember reading it on my Braille Lite 40, and have never been much of a fan of audio books in the first place. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353680#p353680 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Also to add to yer point about the NFB members being againsthere's a short list of things they are against:EverythingWell everything bar being 'independent'Guy I know out in RI who works with a band I'm friends with had a blind roomate who was taught by the NFB. He couldn't do anything in the real world from washing food before preparing it (supposedly the NFB had taught that wasn't required if you bought food...the fuck? I took high school cookery classes and that was the first thing we were taught) to not knowing how to work a button oven or a stove or microwave at all, and of courserefusing any help. It culminated in the Proidence FD being called because the smoke alarm went off since said blind guy decided it'd be a wonderful idea to cook fries on the stove. Without help or supervision, because, independence. Cue a whole apartment building being evacuated into a fall evevning at around 6 or 7and a hell of a lot of angry people turning their hate on that blind guy who genuinely couldn't understand why people were angry at him. Oh I don't know...forcing them out of their homes into 40 degree weather while firefighters put out a pan fire maybe? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353625#p353625 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Surely filming the NFB would qualify as a low budget horror movie? Just curious if you're planning to make it an indie arthouse film Nah see my previous posts on the first few pages about my run ins with the NFB and their kind. I still think they need to learn to be independent and be independent of their own bigotry and assholeness. Yes. That's a word. I said so!Also my bad for misgendering you. Your writing style made me think you were a guy so sorry for that one...I know an author who is a NY Times bestseller who told me, no joke, the NFB 'asked' her to rewrite her blind character into a more independent figure who wasn't out finding his significant other, who had a guide dog and lived with other people. The fact that character is more independent than the NFB cares to admit is neither here nor there. IIRC said author just went with their original idea for that character and had him being blind as a small part of who he is, not the main focus. Which if anything pissed the NFB off more.We're talking a series where the first book has the character doing things anyone does, he just happens to be blind. That's not good enough for the NFB, who want him to act like a blind guy, theyget thisobjected to the author including a seeing eye dog as an animal companion, objected to him being driven around by a butler, and oh yeah, objected to him joining in fights and having meals cooked for him. Last I checked no changes were made to the book series and hey, I'm thankful for that.Are the NFB really going to get so butthurt over a fictional blind character in a book that millions of readers cheer for? Who has a very valid and screwed up reason for being blind by the way and by the way #2: His blindness is only ever mentioned in passing in the book, sure he has a braille clock but that gets thrown out at one point in the series in favor of him and his mate having a discussion over what time it is (4am at that point) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353624#p353624 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I've planned to film the members at an NFB training centre or convention to prove that they do not treat deaf-blind people the way they should. Not like Helen Keller National Centre, for instance.Many members of the NFB are against guided travel. I know, because when I went to an NFB-sponsored event, I was not allowed to rely on a human guide, despite attempts to explain that I cannot follow people due to my hearing loss. The NFB is entirely fixated on showing society that blind people are independent they forget that there are people who genuinely need assistanceAnd Big Balls to who misgendered me in post 136. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353613#p353613 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? But that doesn't apply to absolutely everyone, that's just his opinion though. Yes he thinks like that BUT that isn't the only view or opinion out there however, for everyone who thinks like that, there's another that swears the NFB is the only way to live, or swears off all help and so forth, though... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353609#p353609 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
2018-02-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Okay, let's see how much I can accomplish here.I often see this pop up in almost every minority group under the name, if there was a way to cure your Disability or Chronic illness (emphasis on disability and chronic illness ) would you do it). The answer isn't going to be yes or no.For many people, they have accepted their disability or illness if it happened early in life as a part of their identity. Hence, why we sometimes use identity-first language. Others choose not to let their disability or illness define them, but rather, have it be referred to as a person with an additional characteristic (person-first language).Most people who are on the identity side of things argue that they feel, philosophically, that they've been made this way for a reason. If you haven't been given this disability, you wouldn't have the experiences you have now. So I would say that you could cure your disability, but it wouldn't overwite any experiences you had. It'd simply amend to what you already have.But now let's take it a little bit further than that. What does accept really mean? Here's a little Excerpt from Deaf-Blind and Determined.Saturday, November 29, 2014DB speech by scott stoffel(This is a long document but well worth the read. Information about Scott's books can be found at the end of this email. Please feel free to share.) Scott Stoffel's Speech "Listen to the Vision" (AKA: Deaf-Blind Monsters) November 2, 2014 Fourth Anniversary of DeafCAN! Banquet For more information on DeafCAn, the SSP program or to make a donation visit: deafcanpa.orgSCOTT STOFFEL: Okay. Testing, one, two, three. All right. I am Scott. I will be your Deaf-Blind speaker for the evening. So we have a Deaf-Blind person up here speaking to you. 7 What are you expecting me to say? Supposing I was Helen Keller, the most famous Deaf-Blind person standing here now, what do you think the first thing Helen Keller would say? It would probably be the same first words you get from Hannibal of Carthage. You know what I mean, of course. Is this thing on? Can you hear me in the back? Did you feed my elephant? Maybe Helen would skip the elephant. Joking aside, what do you expect from a Deaf-Blind speaker? Are you expecting any of the usual speech? Yeah. I will tell you about how it was very hard growing up with disabilities. And I had to struggle to the brink of despair. But then one day, I decided to accept my disabilities. I overcame them. I accomplished some great athletic feat, like tying my shoes. Hey, that would be a great feat. These shoes have no laces. I also wore blue and red pajamas with a big "S" on the front, conquered the world and lived happily ever after. Is that the kind of speech you were expecting? You don't know how many times I've heard that speech from Deaf-Blind people. It seems like everyone gives that same speech over and over again. And the audience loves it. Every time, 15-minute standing ovation. They say you are incredible. You should be 8 president and you are standing there in pajamas. (laughter) It is so redundant. Sometimes I feel like society is expecting some kind of show. If Deaf-Blind speakers are like Phineas Barnum's 19th century human oddities. They do a show. Come and see the amazing Deaf-Blind man! He is faster than a speeding driver, more powerful than duct tape, able to lease tall buildings with a single bond. It's a class E savings bond. But honestly, would you take a guy seriously standing here in pajamas? With the big "S" on the front? What is it with that speech? You get it over and over and over again and it's always the same. There is something about that "I accept Deaf-Blindness" routine that people want to hear. But what does it mean? What does it mean if somebody says I accept being Deaf-Blind? Why does that make us amazing? We are so amazing and incredible, they tell us that. Why? What do the words mean, "I accept?" I don't think there is a good definition for I accept. I acknowledge my deaf-blindness. I try to understand it and cope with it. But that doesn't seem to be society's definition of accept. People treat it like it means cure. The person says, "I accept" and that means they are no longer Deaf-Blind. They live like they are not Deaf-Blind. The disabilities are gone. We have overcome them. So they no longer exist. No problem.If you want the whole text, let me know. So let me ask you this question. I've started asking this question because I've been having arguments with people who were totally blind versus those, like myself, who have combined disabilities. Would you rather be deaf, or would you rather be blind?Most people would say they would rather be blind. That would be a logical answer. And Helen Keller is right, in a way. She once said, being blind is like being cut off from things, while being deaf is like being cut off from
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @turtlepower32No need as I have access to BARD myself, do you recall if the book was an audio or braile book? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353593#p353593 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? At Orko, I can't recall what the title of that book was. I know I got it from Bard, what was Web Braille then, so it's possible I could track it down again, but it would probably take awhile.As far as driving goes, it has definitely been something I've yearned for extensively. While I'm not quite as skeptical of self driving cars as I used to be, and in fact, if they provided me with greater independence than I have now, and I could actually afford such a thing, which, let's face it, both prospects are long shots, I would be willing to see what they can do. However, it could never replace the actual experience of getting behind the wheel, and knowing that I am essentially controlling this powerful machine that can be the source of pleasure, pain, and everything in between.When I was younger, I constantly dreamed of packing everything I owned into a car, or at least my most prized possessions, and driving off to parts unknown. I would imagine every detail, from the songs on the radio to the purr of the car's engine to the scents wafting in through my open windows as I zoomed along, untethered by any expectations, troubles or hindrances. When I was too exhausted to continue, I would simply stop where I was, and attempt to make the place I had found my home. Even if I had to literally live in my car for awhile while foraging for that burger flipping job that is so elusive to us blind folks until I got on my feet, I would be satisfied just knowing that this was my creation, my doing, my wants, my needs. I wanted this so badly at times that the pain I felt was physical.Then, almost four years ago, I met someone who changed my perspective on many things, and one of the things he showed me is that you don't need to be alone to bask in freedom, or to hope for a better life. I still have that fantasy sometimes, particularly now that he's gone, but the allure of the car and all it represents doesn't have quite as strong of a pull on me as it once did.I do wonder what my life would have been like had I been able to follow through on such a lifestyle, of course. Perhaps it would have ended terribly for me, I have no idea. It could have been the best thing that ever happened to me, or I could just be shrugging my shoulders and saying meh. In any case, even though sighted people have often tried to make me feel better by saying that it's good that I don't have to waste my money on gas, fight with assholes in traffic, or deal with the anxiety that comes with unexpected and costly repairs, I'll always be haunted by that what if? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353561#p353561 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations, and if I was paid something like minimum wage for the time I've put into various projects since High School, figuring in cost of college etc, I'd have made very close to the maximum pay for an individual on SSI.If my work was half the quality of pros doing the same categories, that'd be a whole other story. But if I was doing that quality of work, I'd have way more to show for it, so it doesn't feel too much like a stretch to say I'm getting more or less what I deserve.Of course, the nature of my output would have seen me fired a dozen times over, so maaaybe I'm being too generous to myself. Also, I don't get the maximum individual payments for SSI, because those calculations included paying off college as quickly as possible, and the 700-833/month would be after those payments. Also, college would be paid off by now. So, I'm actually down about $240/month to cover that, IIRC. So, in practice, whether or not I have extra money for anything comes down entirely to how bad the whether is that month. (My insulation is horrible, so my electric bill gets ridiculous in extreme temperatures, never mind humidity.)I can afford an occasional cheap app, and, like, a couple pizzas per year. I need to grow squash or something.If I suddenly started making an actual paycheck worthy of the name, my college payments would go up, too. Then there'd be health insurance, because if I can afford all of that in addition to normal living expenses, I don't know that I'd still qualify for Medicaid. So anything shy of $2500k/month would have the sole benefit of paying off more college with a single employer's money, rather than everyone's. Which, OK, I agree that would be a good thing, but is it good enough to be worth the effort of finding the potentially-crappy job in the first place? $3k/month would be where it'd be worth taking seriously... and that's assuming I do not have to move[ to get said job.Now, we haven't even gotten into things like the social aspect, disabilities other than blindness, etc. I find the idea that I could work from home on something I don't care about well enough to be worth the employer's investment seems incredibly dubious, in light of information that cannot be communicated at this time. So we're back to the searching for something (1) local, which [2] pays well enough to be worthwhile on top of what SSI provides, which [3] will actually hire me, a socially inept blind person with no work history or connections. Also applying for jobs is irrationally terrifying, so getting over that bit of stupidity slows things down even more.But if any of that changes, I'm sure I'll post about it somewhere.And that is why I am still on SSI. :$ ... And if this phone jumps into the address bar instead of the message box one more time, ... something... will happen? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353405#p353405 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? The way disability benefit is worked out is that they calculate how much extra it costs a disabled person to have the quality of life and be able to do the same things an able-bodied person could do, and they give them that amount. So any sourness should be aimed at the people making the calculations, not the disabled people themselves. The thing is some disabled people are working five days a week, have children, an active social life, and all the financial out-goings that go along with it. Then there are those who live alone, or with parents, have little social life and hardly any financial responsibilities, but they get the same money the active people do, so they end up with much more disposable income, and appear to be living a life of relative luxury. But remember any able-bodied person on a low to moderate income who has the same lack of responsibilities, would also have all the same 'luxuries'. Resenting disabled people when you're healthy and abled-bodied seems very much like punching down to me. All our mod-cons and medical expertise, and all the things that make modern life a doddle,, are all thanks to the fact we've won the genetic mutation lottery. Errors in the genetic code lead to our bigger brains, ability to communicate complex ideas, pick stuff up, and so on. All resulting in the average person having a much easier time of it than say a squirrel or rat. Disabled people however have to suffer the not-so-great aspect of these genetic errors. So for healthy able-bodied people with all the accoutrements of modern life to resent the comparatively little bit of their income that goes towards disabled people, is pretty low I'd say. And I squarely put the blame on the media. They love attacking things like the NHS and disability benefit. Not a day goes by without a negative NHS story, or other welfare abuse and how much these things are costing tax payers. When they're decimated, there won't be a big refund, just a redirection of funds, and some of the worst off in society having an even poorer quality of life. Disabled people aren't the villains. It's not a scam they have going on. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353373#p353373 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? The way disability benefit is worked out is that they calculate how much extra it costs a disabled person to have the quality of life and be able to do the same things an able-bodied person could do, and they give them that amount. So any sourness should be aimed at the people making the calculations, not the disabled people themselves. The thing is some disabled people are working five days a week, have children, an active social life, and all the financial out-goings that go along with it. Then there are those who live alone, or with parents, have little social life and hardly any financial responsibilities, but they get the same money the active people do, so they end up with much more disposable income, and appear to be living a life of relative luxury. But remember any able-bodied person on a low to moderate income who has the same lack of responsibilities, would also have all the same 'luxuries'. Resenting disabled people when you're healthy and abled-bodied seems very much like punching down to me. All our mod-cons and medical expertise, and all the things that make modern life a doddle,, are all thanks to the fact we've won the genetic mutation lottery. Errors in the genetic code lead to our bigger brains, ability to communicate complex ideas, pick stuff up, and so on. All resulting in the average person having a much easier time of it than say a squirrel or rat. Disabled people however have to suffer the not-so-great aspect of these genetic errors. So for healthy able-bodied people with all the accoutrements of modern life to resent the comparatively little bit of their income that goes towards disabled people, is pretty low I'd say. And I squarely put the blame on the media. They love attacking things like the NHS and disability benefit. Not a day goes by without a negative NHS story, or other welfare abuse and how much these things are costing tax payers. When they're decimated, there won't be a big refund, just a redirection of funds, and some of the worst off in society having an even poorer quality of life. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353373#p353373 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @JaceKI've been there where I had no money and was forced to use welfare just to survive. In that mode you take advantage of every free thing you can, but to get the most value out of it, I'd go for what will fill the need, not the top of the line, that's just wasteful of the very limited resources.Then later when I'm much better off, I probably could have gotten JAWS for free, but didn't want to wait the months it would take to get it, so I paid for it myself, and left the money in the welfare system so that hopefully somebody who really needs it can get it.My only computer is an ten year old laptop that works just fine and fills my computing needs very adequately, I don't need something shiny and new and probably loaded down with a bunch of extra crap I have no use for.My iPhone is an SE, I definitely don't need an eight, or a, God forbid, an X. I like the size and form factor of the classic iPhones and have no wish to own any of the newer designs.It's people like Bob that make it hard for people that really need it to get the help they need from the welfare system because people like him are sucking up all the resources. But as I look at it, you get out of life what you put into it. If you go through life being a cheap ass jerk like Bob, you'll end up with an unsatisfying cheap ass life, and deserve it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353358#p353358 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I don't know true site I have been blind sense three so No I would not want it back. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353314#p353314 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? (I'm still stuck on the "We can't get any support from these organizations unless we use the expensive software instead of the free software". Problems that do not need to exist but never get resolved are so freakin' irritating -.- ) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353295#p353295 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? In the information age, I would argue that accessing the internet, and a computer are human rights. Actually several european countries have determined that the internet is a human right, and have given certain free speed teers to everyone. As for wellfare, why should benefits based on disability decrease when the person's earnings increase? It is an objective fact that being disabled can cost significantly more, and this doesn't change with your earnings. The aim of disability allowances and such are to cover disability related expenses.And is it really the norm to give blind people iphones and macs as part of wellfare? I would've personally gotten a top of the line windows laptop. But I never heard of such a thing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353290#p353290 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? There's a huge difference between buying cheap stuff because you're on a small paycheck or food stamps for instance, so you have to be cheap to make the most of what you have, versus being cheap when you can afforrd to buy stuff though. I'd even argue if you're well off and you are being cheap you're being cheap for the sake of being cheap, even though you have money.I know quite a few people in the US through mutual friends who simply don't have the money and don't have the means to buy, say, a new top of the range phone, or they pick and choose what they buy, maybe cord cut and ditch cable to save money for car insurance for instance, so at least from that end of things I understand living cheap. That's not my isssue.My issue with Bob is, and I agree, he works a steady job, yet doesn't wanna give up his free shit he's got given on welfare. I asked him one, do you really need a top of the line iphone and a top of the line laptop, and a top of the range this and that, his response was VERY telling. Yes, because I'm blind. I can't have anything else. I'm sorry but what? I pointed a few sighted friends who fall into the aforementioned living paycheck to paycheck to this and they all mostly said the same thing, why do the blind get all the free stuff when we're sighted, we work our asses off, get taxed and struggle to pay bills every month, yet the blind get everything given to them?I understand that sentiment, Iget the anger and the bitterness, I do feel welfare should be readdressed if only to help the truly vulnrable, hell I'd be in favor of taking the cash it'd cost to buy a blind person an iphone and a carer, I'd be willing to put that into ensuring a single mother raising two kids on her own could afford to eat and pay utilities come the end of the month. I don't se a reason why blind people should get top of the line iphones, imacs, Macbooks, whatever they want and then go waving it at people who are scraping by on a paycheck that's just above the SSI cutoffand yeah, I've seen it done, I've seen blind people showing off their new iphones, macs, whatever to people and we're talking expensive stuff they've not had to work for at all. I'm in favor of like I said taking that balance and scaling welfare bak to what somebody absolutely, blatantly needs to survive. Access to Jaws is not a *must* for survival, Access to a computer is *not* a basic human right. Food and shelter are.Okay that's my little rant over. I just feel like there's some people out there, blind, sighted or whatever who play the welfare system for all its worth and then bitch and whine when the loopholes are closed. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353252#p353252 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @JaceKThat's the problem with welfare systems, there are too many ways to abuse them.Bob sounds like a pretty pathetic person. If he weren't blind, he'd probably be the type to spend hours price shopping to save a penny and at the same time spending a dollar in gas to do it. Or would he be too cheap to buy a car? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353230#p353230 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Okay yeah posed the question to a blind guy I was at high school with. This is his reply, paraphrased...let's call him Bob for this instance:No because I'd have to give up my free housing and my freee stuff I get on welfare, I don't want to give all that upThe problem, though is last I spoke to him, he works and has a good social life so I'd argue that could come off as entitled, the 'I work but I want free stuff' mentality when Bob actually works, has a full time job and still somehow claims to be a helpless blind guy. Nope, not making it up, he works a 40 hour week,.yet still plays the woe is me, I'm blind, card. Which frankly pisses me offf because I know for a fact there's a lot of unemplyed sighted people who could do the exact same job and do it just as well, without requiring (and this is from Bob's own words to me), getting his employer to fork out for training, for accomadating his needs.My uncle runs a roofing businesss, and again, this is paraphrasing his own words:He doesn't want to seek out and deliberately hire disabled people simply because being a sales rep involves driving and selling roofing stuff to people on a dady by day basis, e.g. leave house by six, drive to the office, then go drive all around the area till 4-5pm then head home. As my uncle stated, there's no way a blind person could do that at all. Yes, he has an office secretary who has her own issues, but as he stated, that's a different job. In that case he hired the best candidate for the job, this woman Lysssa could start right away, and get to work with minimal expense needed. I was shocked to learn how much it costs in certain fields to train or provide services for a disabled person, f.ex. my uncle has been forced by the fact he runs a business to not hire blind office workers because the company would simply lose too much money in bringing them in, getting the hardware and software all set up to get them settled in, then go for the training. I was told during a conversation over Christmas it cost, and this is in GBP, or British pounds, £3500 to bring in one blind office worker from scratch, train them up with courses, then the cost of modifying the firm's computers to be accessible. This is where the bigger isssue comes in. I know the firm's IT specialist, Brian, he's honestly tried, and tried, and tried to find a way to do it on the heap to keep the company making moneyand from a pure tech perspective it's simply not doable, I explained to my unle Charles bout NVDA and he told Brian, Brian went and looked it up from what I heard, I got a call about it and it ended up as thanks for telling me about this but the charities are pushing us to use Jaws and won't give us discounts, the government won't either so we're screwed...which pissed me off. End result was my uncle told my aunt reported the company has made a concious choice not to deliberately hire any blind employeees simply to stay afloat. I understand that. I get for a company that turns over around a million a year...before taxes, I get where my uncle and Brian are coming from, I've heard the numbers, it's around £5-6k to get a blind guy set up, then you have the recurring costs. The final bit that pushed the roofing firm over the edge was how one blind guy pushing for a job told the firm to, quote, 'Make the job accessible' meaning the sales representative job. When it was suggested, reasonably, he'd be paired up with another rep and they could cover the same area, the blind guy apparently turned angry and said something like what the hell's the point of that? I don't want to be paired up with a sighted person to do my job. I'm independent.Which turned out to be a ton of bullshit, honestly because, the story goes that blind guy found his way out of the offfice and started screaming at one of the wagon drivers (the firm has a couple of 40 ton trucks for moving stuff around), the truck driver apparently floored the blind guy for threatening him with his cane, sure, the wagon driver got a warning for it but after one of the other guys stepped up and said he was hit with a cane, last I heard that warning got taken off his record after it was shown he was protecting himself. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353206#p353206 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @123, true. As the saying goes, "An idea can look excellent on paper. But it is horrible in practice." URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353201#p353201 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @122:Somehow the show gets funnier once Ron freaking Pearlman, aka Hellboy took over narratingI'm posting and rewatching season 1 and thoroughly entertained. Spoiler. It's all on Youtube, so you guys who want to laugh at dark humor, youtube 1000 ways to die, there's a playlist of all the episodes on there for yaAlso, related but not from 1000 Ways, thisactually happend. a pensioner in the UK pretended to be blind for sympathy and free handouts (scumbag). Karma came calling when his guide dog refused to walk on, he dropped the leash, took a stepand fell and drowned in a ditch. That just feels like a cosmic bitch slap for pretending to be disabled. Also makes for a hilarious screw you from whichever deity happened to be watching, take yer pick...acua@Ethin:No, kill them with fire. I like the idea of such organizations. I just don't like their ways of doing stuff. On paper something like the NFB/AB/RNIB/etc is a nice cute idea. Unfortunately. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353137#p353137 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @JaceK1,000 Ways to Die, I always liked that show and still listen to all the old reruns. I have my TiVo box set up to record it whenever it is aired. Yeah, call me morbid, but I always thought it was hilarious how stupid people could be to their own detriment.We now return you to your regularly scheduled program. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353131#p353131 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? agreed with post 120. as for 118, you raised an interesting point. if you lived on an unhabbited island, where it's just you and nature, would you want your sight back? while in that instance, I wouldn't want it as much as I do now, not being able to see the view of the sea, the wild life, nature, would hurt me just as bad. in fact, thinking more about it, that island would want me to have it even more, since unlike in the real world, I would have no sighted to describe things to us, or help. not being able t o put a picture to a coconut, not knowing whether it's consumable at all... sometimes the look of these things, while not as obvious, but can help. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353129#p353129 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? No, the NFB doesn't need to stop what it's doing. It needs to die. It needs to end. Period. The NFB has hardly done shit to improve the blind community other than cause trouble for everyone and giving the blind as a whole a bad name. Organizations like the NFB or RNIB, who supposedly "represent the blind," do a shitty job of it and need to ended. The organizations, I mean. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353126#p353126 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Blind people were downtrodden in 1900? Yes. Because society was different then, you had a very religious perspective on the world, you had several different strains of Christianity in the US, and you had a smaller US to bootIn 1900 it was common for disabled people to be treated as drooling idiots, incapable of anything, that attitude lasted up until the 1970s at least in some areas and still happens today. Certain religions viewed, in the late 1890s/early 1900s blindness or disability as a punishment from their chosen deity for not being religious enough, for instance a child born out of wedlock that was blind was blamed on sex outside marriage, a child born to a married couple was seen as blind due to the faults of the parents and a god punishing the child, for example. Also for 1900s society consider the social constructs. You didn't exactly associate outside your social level, the aristocracy didn't associate with the common riff raff in the streets, and the disabled were seen in certain areas as no better than beggars or even criminals. In certain parts of the world, blind and disabled people were forced into 'therapy' to 'cure' their disability. Or just tossed into insane asylums.Society hasn't really changed in 117 years from the given date, as a whole. If anything, things like the NFB/RNIB/etc are a throwback to social class structures, I feel, they need to get with the times and notice the world's adapting, and changing. They need, I feel to stop treating blind people like it's the 1900s and they need help doing the simplest little things, or to stop treating them, at the worst ends of it, like babies who can't be trusted to do anything on their own. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353124#p353124 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? so you want to get somewhere. like another state, or something. or you just want to have a quiet weekend alone. train and bus aren't available. so you have 2 choices. 1) you fly, which you can't afford. 2) you simply don't go to have a weekend alone. 3) if you're sighted, you grab your keys, go to the nearest gas station, fill up the tank, and off you go. in fact, if we're speaking of fishing/camping, you literally can't get there without help. and it's not that some of us can't, it's that we don't want to ask for help. there's nothing wrong with not wanting sight back, or not noticing the limitations of blindness, but claiming that they are not there is just simply wrong. I mean, I do admit that almost the only things I miss about not having sight are driving, and the ability to miss nature. I can do more or less everything else that a sighted can. but independence, and freedom, I miss it, there is no day that passes by, when I don't wish it. I think not having any blind person near by, none that I ever hung out with, only having purely sighted is partly why I feel this way. and this is me, apologies if I just want what many people have.Yeah, this is the real one, but I think it's a lot more context-dependent than we're making it out to be.I bring up again that cars and computers are young enough that people who predate the spread of both are still alive. And yet, in spite of that, it seems extraordinarily likely that being blind 100 years ago was more limiting than it is today, and 200 years ago even more so.Let's consider the world where cars are not an issue: either autonomous vehicles caught on and are 100% accessible, or you live on some really nice island with all the environments you'd normally want to take aacar to in easy walking distance from train stations.Assume that this island somehow has Amazon, and so you don't have to go ask a stranger to help you find embarrassing health products at a store.Now what?Because something tells me this scenario would change no one's mind, as described.Oh, I agree that the fact that Joe Shmoe can drive for a couple hours and reach some place I wouldn't mind going, and I can't, is rather unpleasant. But Joe Shmoe couldn't do that in 1900, and blind people were still overwhelmingly downtrodden in 1900. The NFB didn't exist back then (IDK about the RNIB).There were still things missing, like art and eye contact. I don't remember either of those coming up in this discussion, though. It always comes back to either independence, or awful people being awful in a way they wouldn't be toward a sighted person.In a world where driving was a non-issue, and sighted people treated you like a human being with actual value, what would be your motivation? How strong do you think that motivation would be in this scenario?Would it make a difference if you were the only blind person around, vs if you could easily find a dozen on short notice?I'm not saying that blindness isn't, by definition, the lack of a sense, or that lacking that sense isn't limiting or disadvantageous in any way.I'm asking what limitations and disadvantages, specifically, make it so horrible for so many?And why were blind people worse off when hardly any ubiquitous technology was inherently visual? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353120#p353120 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I think I got quite lucky on that, the instructors I have known in France weren't as pushy as that. Sure they sometimes got surprised like hell if I didn't do something a certain way, but they didn't go as far as saying "you should stop doing that completely". In fact, if I got to show them how I proceeded they would sometimes be interested changing how they teach stuff, though not surprisingly this was much more often the case with technology compared to any other domain.The pushiest thing I had to deal with is that I was forced to use a braille note-taker when I was in a school for the blind. This wouldn't have been that bad except the way that thing handled input made so that typing fast wasn't exactly a good option, and sometimes you would have some completely ununderstandable text in some places.And then of course teachers didn't understand why I made so much typing mistakes. Because, you know, in that domain there's apparently no way the machine could be at fault, blla-bla-bla. Whereas in other domains like videogames, if someone hears a scratchy voice clip on the Sega Genesis, people will always blame the hardware.Not sure it's a fair comparison, especially as there are so many games with scratchy voices on Genesis, and because some of you may have had different experiences with all of that, but you get the idea. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353105#p353105 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I think I got quite lucky on that, the instructors I have known in France weren't as pushy as that. Sure they sometimes got surprised like hell if I didn't do something a certain way, but they didn't go as far as saying "you should stop doing that completely". In fact, if I got to show them how I proceeded they would sometimes be interested changing how they teach stuff, though not surprisingly this was much more often the case with technology compared to any other domain.The pushiest thing I had to deal with is that I was forced to use a braille note-taker when I was in a school for the blind. This wouldn't have been that bad except the way that thing handled input made so that typing fast wasn't exactly a good option, and sometimes you would have some completely ununderstandable text in some places.And then of course teachers didn't understand why I made so much typing mistakes. Because, you know, in that domain there's apparently no way the machine could be at fault, blla-bla-bla. Whereas in other domains like videogames, if someone hears a scratchy voice clip on the Sega Genesis, people will always blame the hardware.Not sure it's a fair comparison, but you get the idea. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353105#p353105 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I'll check and for me, at least I prefer my chosen distro because it just works. No need to go download any programs, just enable Orca once logged into the Mate desktop and go, it works fine with the stuff provided, which is the usual fare, Firefox, Thunderbird, Pluma and so forth., it's a lot easier here but to each their own.Also yeah my school CIT (200) course was Windows this, Microsoft that, I used Narrator oddly enough because it was a Microsoft product. My high school's IT deptartment firmly believed anything non Microsoft wasn't compatible with Windowsyeah URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353102#p353102 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I still love it how instructers tell you to use IOS, windows 10, and JAWS. nothing else ever exists. I use android just as well as IOS, but for me, typing on there is tedious. I even used a little of CHROMEOS, and that was pretty neat. linux, never had the need to use it, and was ever really interested, but it's nothing to do with accessibility. and I just replied to your PM. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353095#p353095 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Yeah cars were simpler in the 70s/80s and up until the early/mid 2000s at least.Also something I wanted to touch on, re: depressionI'd argue it's not depression on its own, I'd argue that hey, those services/social stuff/etc are out to condition you to their way of thinking, the sad thing is the people who do that truly think they are doing the right thingwhich they aren't. It's either their way or not at all. For instance, if I mention I run Linux I get told to use a real accessible OS, Windows with Jaws 99% of the time from people in social services/blind services. Nah. I'm fine on Solus with Orca up to date thanks... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353094#p353094 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? My dad had a car in the seventies that just had the ignition barrel hanging by wires and you started it with anything that would fit in the little slot, like a butter knife, doorkey, or screwdriver. He'd obviously lost the keys at some point and just ripped the ignition out from the rear end leaving the key mechanism redundant. The Earth might as well have been a different planet back in the seventies. We're so much wealthier now it's unbelievable. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353092#p353092 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? 106. regarding the PM, I'll go check right now, though I'm using chrome with add block plus. as for cars, I should have clarified a little. I was born in 2000. 80s, 70s completely! missed out on. but late 90s, and the 2000s, you could just plug in the key, pull them in neutral, and there you go. toyota, ford, VW, and most of those things worked beautifully. nowadays, if you have the remote start, you gotta push out the clutch, in some instances, the break as well for security. alternatively, you plug the little remote in the dashboard, then you push out the clutch and break, and then press the button. but things back from 15 years, were much simpler. I always gave VW enormus credit for making their boards particularly accessible. that means tactile buttons, and things that just worked. but you definitely have a point there regarding the 70s. those are some bad stuff. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353088#p353088 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Speaking of remote startbecause everyone needs a snarky Ron Pearlman momen. I'll just leave this 1000 Ways To Die clip here to illustrate how not to start a car...enjoy the karmaertruckma:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyqXd-w7keYThough without htat they are more complex. That being said I still don't think self driving cars would solve anything, either though simply because it shifts the problem elsewhere, you still have to hope said auto driving car is reliable and you stil have to know how to manually take over in theory. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353083#p353083 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? LOL! These days, cars are a lead pipe sinch to start, just grab the digital key fob that locks and unlocks your car, push the remote start button, and you're done!Of course this assumes your car has the remote start option. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353081#p353081 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Even though I'm at the point where I'm OK dealing with it, I think seeing blindness as minor is indeed exagerated.Also, about accessibility of cars, I remember Citroên released a few cars that had Windows CE and that you could command part of it vocally. Not sure you could tell to start the engine for example, but I found it pretty impressive at the time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353080#p353080 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Also, Braille, I thought I sent you a PM but not sure if it went through though given how FF 58 hates punBB boards (at least with the DuckDuckGo privacy addon and an ad blocker) so yeah not sure what's going on with that PM URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353077#p353077 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @106:Disagree, for the most part cars have gotten easier to start, consider 50 years ago you had to pu out the choke, kepe a foot on the brake, other on the clutch, hold the key turned in the ignition and make sure the car was in neutral, then move the choke at the right time, all the while keeping the clutch pushed in so the car didn't stallyeah, I'll take keeping a foot on the brake, turn key, push gear, go. Helps that my mom used to run a driving school in the 60s and 70s so I know where I'm coming from with that, the Minis were a bitch to start and several other cars were more complex.For the issue of not asking for directions, sighted people do that all the time. If I'm heading somewhere with my family I know for sure my dad won't ask for directions, my mom will just go the way she's always gone, not ask for directions unless there's trouble on the road and so forth.@Ethin/Eenz:It's not as simple with 3D printing either. Okay, printing a replacement part for an arm or a shoulder's one thing, I know a guy who actually printed the parts he needed and had surgeons reattach those printed parts getting his shoulder working again, but the eye's a whole other ballgame.@Braille (again):I'd argue that yes it is the services fault though since at the age most typically get caught up in them they are still learning and like a sponge, and (at least in my experience) the services and social stuff doesn't take no for an answer and the more you try to do stuff they don't want you to do the more they lock you down. Maybe that's just the services I've dealt with however URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353076#p353076 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? first of all. 102, your eye condition has an important role in terms of whether it's realistic to get your sight back. while it's something that we haven't touched up on, I think it would be an interesting topic whether in the future, our condition can be cured. in my case, yes, it can. for me, the retina ( hope I'm spelling this right) and the eye balls, or the ctual eyes aren't damaged at all. not to mention since I have full light perception, it would be, no doubt, easier for me to adjust, than some others. 81. cars. ah yes, the good old topic of cars. I learned how to operate a car's dashboard at the age of 4 or so. even up to this day, I operate anything and everything I can, but those touch screens sure make it impossible. yet another limitation that we're facing. and why? I doubt any car factories would build a screen reader into the radio, or the aircon panel. I'm laughing at the idea as I write this. 5 years ago, hell, I knew these things better than the sighted. but good things never last, and the accessibility is strongly! pulling away, further and further. I'm surprised I can at least start the engine in a car park, if I'm cold, maybe, that, too, will be touch screen in about 2 years from now... and don't get me mentioned how you used to just put the gearbox into neutral, and turn the key. now you have to push out the clutch and shit. ah well, I'll still adapt.now, let me quote from post 65, think it is.OK. People have said that "blindness is not minor," "blindness is an extreme limitation," etc., and they have implied, in subtle or not-so-subtle ways, that "blindness is an extremely bad thing and it needs to be destroyed at all costs." first, thanks for a somewhat entertaining, but harsh post. let me first cover this first point. some of us, and I consider myself lucky from that point, had worse experiences than others. some are from different countries than others. in eastern europe, for example, where I originally originate from, if you're disabled, you're fucked. unless you're in a developed country, you're fucked. I was fortunate enough to have migrated at a fairly young age, but what about those who haven't? there are worse things than blindness, but being blind isn't challenge or limitation free, as some of you claim it to be.2. I have been taught two ways of life: the way of the blind person, and the way of the average person. same here. I chose option 2, however. I had to learn to adapt to everything alone. I more or less never had any help besides my fully sighted family. none at all. so of course, I lack certain skills. I'll happily admit that myself. but just because you grew up as an average person, that, by any means, doesn't mean that you don't want sight back.to those on this topic who think blindness is a limiter that hinders your development and all that bullshit that's been spouted on this topic: you, along with the blind services who have taught you, are the closed-minded ones. It is not just the services that taught you; it is you, too. If you didn't get all depressed about your blindness. personally, I'm not depressed, and I know for a fact, that I'm not as close minded as the blind services. but since you seem to claim that blindness is limitation free, I want to ask you a question. and anyone could answer it, it would actually be interesting to hear some feedback on it. so you want to get somewhere. like another state, or something. or you just want to have a quiet weekend alone. train and bus aren't available. so you have 2 choices. 1) you fly, which you can't afford. 2) you simply don't go to have a weekend alone. 3) if you're sighted, you grab your keys, go to the nearest gas station, fill up the tank, and off you go. in fact, if we're speaking of fishing/camping, you literally can't get there without help. and it's not that some of us can't, it's that we don't want to ask for help. there's nothing wrong with not wanting sight back, or not noticing the limitations of blindness, but claiming that they are not there is just simply wrong. I mean, I do admit that almost the only things I miss about not having sight are driving, and the ability to miss nature. I can do more or less everything else that a sighted can. but independence, and freedom, I miss it, there is no day that passes by, when I don't wish it. I think not having any blind person near by, none that I ever hung out with, only having purely sighted is partly why I feel this way. and this is me, apologies if I just want what many people have. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353073#p353073 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I think remaking the eye could be universal. It should take care of most illnesses of the eye. I know of 3d printing. Technically it is making an eye with your own cells, as sheets of your cells could be used to form the eye. 3d printer, along with CRISPR gene editing technologies, will totally revolutionize the world I believe. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353072#p353072 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @enes, that's not as easy as it sounds, believe me. There is another less complicated way: 3D printing. We could use that. However, the process you are referring to will recreate the entire eye; you want to only recreate/regenerate those portions of the eye that are either missing or critically damaged, not replace the entire eye. As I said though, this most likely only works for ROP. I doubt this treatment would be universal. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353070#p353070 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? hi,To avoid immune rejection, the replacement of the eye should be made of iether the person's own cells, or it should stimulate the body to repair the damage. In the womb, the eye is formed completely, it is likely just a question of activating the appropriate genes to repeat the process. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353068#p353068 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I still think that you shouldn't resent your disability. No one should, really. You were born with it, or got it somehow at whatever age. There's nothing you can do to change it. Plus, there are a lot of things that factor into a treatment like this that would and could give you back your site, such as retinal length, whether your brain would even accept the treatment (hello, immune system), etc. Not to mention your eye lenses. And that's just for Retinopathy of Prematurity, the condition that makes me blind in the first place. That doesn't even take into account other causes, including Systemic allergic diseases (Asthma, Atopic dermatitis, Atopic eczema, etc), Skin and mucous membrane diseases (Acne rosacea, Albinism, Behçet's disease, etc), or any of the other diseases out there (Phacomatoses, Collagen diseases, Systemic viral infections, Systemic bacterial infections, Systemic protozoal infections, etc. (Angiomatosis retinae (Von Hippel–Lindau disease) (retinocerebellar capillary hemangiomatosis), Ataxia telangiectasia (Louis–Bar syndrome), Encephalotrigeminal angiomatosis (Sturge–Weber syndrome) (encephalofacial cavernous hemangiomatosis), and so on). You can find a full list of all of the systemic diseases with ocular manifestations, as it calls it, on Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s … estations. And that's only for systemic ones, too.Edit: to clarify, the diseases I listed above are the ones that cause blindness. That's what an "ocular manifestation" is. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353059#p353059 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I wonder if the fear of blindness and the reason we tend to be shunned has anything to do with the age old myth that doing certain things to ourselves causes blindness. So people fear our blindness and stay away from us because it might be catching.@turtlepower32Do you recall any of the details about that book about Hellen Keller that you read? Such as who the author was? It sounds like it might be a worthwhile read, even if it is a bit below my current reading level. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353058#p353058 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I heard that the military considered using lasers or something to blind enemy troops, but decided it was unethical, but blowing their heads off or collapsing buildings crushing and suffocating them to death is fine. So it seems society does consider blindness a pretty horrific prospect. With that in mind, as far as benefits goes, I think the idea is that in a relatively wealthy society, things like blindness shouldn't be a financial burden, the disability is burden enough. We all know how expensive technology aimed exclusively at the blind can be. And as far as the media's response goes, I don't know if it's a political agenda, or just that they love to aggravate people because stimulants are addictive. I often refer to the newsmedia as the daily troll. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353054#p353054 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @92: For me at least, sweeping the ane around tripped people, the long ass canes that is sweeping them across an entire corridor for instance, it's easy if you're walking a certain way to get that cane caught up in your legs or btween your arms.Also I partially agree with scaling back the free stuff...but only because the media makes such a big deal out of what disabled people get for welfare money that it auses resentment, actually most people on welfare get treated like this by the media, the 'look at X he gets Y and Z without working' mentality. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353047#p353047 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @96: That has been done. The results are consistently that blindness is rated as the absolutely worst thing that could happen, worse than death, cancer, dismemberment, etc. To the point where some doctors consider it malpractice to remove the eyes to save people from cancer that otherwise responds only to brain-damaging radiation treatments. When this fact really sank in for me, it was horrifying.To be honest, I was slipping more toward the "it would be irrational not to take an offered cure, because an extra high-speed, high-bandwidth sense is clearly useful", but the fact that sighted people have gone that far into one sense, to the point that it might be literally impossible for a sighted brain to comprehend how to function without... that's scary and I dread to approach it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353031#p353031 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Well, some might accept. However, blindness is one of the worst viewed among the disabilities. In that way, disabilities are not equal. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353030#p353030 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? @93 try asking them if they prefer to be blind or if they prefer to be withouth an hand or withouth legs... and see what do you get from their replies URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353027#p353027 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? I think there's a distinction between compensatory free stuff, like discounts on public transit, accessibility tech, etc, and things like people paying for your meals, preferential seating, a cashier not charging you for something, etc. Where exactly one draws the line seems to come down to personal opinion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353024#p353024 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? hi,As for your second group, I wouldn't ask for those, but I would accept if offered. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353025#p353025 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? ok, so I would like to touch on another topic. Said militant blind people also state that disabled people should feel morally questioned or guilty for benefiting for the free stuff etc provided to the blind. I also strongly disagree with this. Take any sighted person, and ask them if they would consider being blind if given a million dollars and more. I bet you wouldn't find a single person that is willing to. So, why should we feel guilty taking something given to us with a disability that a sighted person wouldn't swap for a million? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353022#p353022 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? OT: Rereading, I have to ask... what kind of mobility instructor is so incompetent that their students' canes wind up between said students' legs? I suppose that could have been on you, but it sounds so difficult to even do by mistake that I'm imagining the teacher told you to hold it vertically one foot from your body at all times, or something equally antihelpful. FTR, I can't imagine a situation where you'd want it close enough for you to trip on other than extremely tight spaces, while waiting stationarily, or while going sighted guide and just carrying it in your free hand. (My first instructor neglected to tell me that last part, so I managed to trip a guide with it, once, causing her to spill hot coffee on the school secretary. This was not the only practically relevant detail that instructor neglected, just the most scalding.)(Considering the tone of that first sentence, I'm now expecting a response that will make me feel like an awful person for having made it and failing to imagine the perfectly respectable explanation. ... Bah, Dr. Fate is a jerk, so let's tempt him anyway.) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=353016#p353016 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it?
Re: If there would be a way for getting your sight back, would you do it? Well, we could go into why blindness has historically been the most feared disability, and why certain subsets of the population, like the Amish for example, still treat their disabled offspring like garbage, but that's not what this topic was created to discuss.Such history does leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth, even if they're not fully aware of it. Anyone who read about Helen Keller would know. I was in seventh grade, and I did a report on her. The book I happened to find was certainly age appropriate in terms of the reading level and what not, but went into a detailed and gruesome history of what happened to most disabled children in her day, even going so far as to break it down by each individual disability. I'll never forget that.What kind of message is that trying to send? Sure, it's best not to sugarcoat things, and I'm glad I did learn the truth rather than some watered down version of hero worship, as so often happens when it comes to the way we learn about historical events in school.A lot of things made sense to me after reading that book, though. Just because we express our animalistic urges differently now doesn't mean they're not still there. I understood why I was bullied, I understood why teachers who had never dealt with a blind person before treated me either as though I were invisible, or as an inconvenience, at least while I was in public school. It was a shield which protected me from some of the bullshit during the remainder of my time there.So, I'm glad that these things don't bother most people. But keep in mind that on some level, we're all conditioned to fear what we don't understand. Often, this is manifested as pure hatred, or socially acceptable versions of the same. None of us are immune from discrimination. It's what we do with it that counts. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=352999#p352999 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
