Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Dark;Those labels sound rather small for bar codes. When you read a label, do you have to pass the pen friend over the label as if scanning a bar code? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223522#p223522 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Gene, the family situation I find worryingly believable, however I do not agree with Gellman entirely on the political correctness and normals issue. everybody in society has varying power relations, people vary in intelligence, physical strength, attractiveness whatever, and frequently these variations are due to intrinsically biological factors such as disease or what coctale of genes your born with. What sets the disabled! apart is that they can be quantified as a group, The blind and The deaf particularly, and one of the biggest problems with this group is that for those outside it there really isnt a clear way of having knolidge of those within it, their capabilities or capacities. My brother for example (who is registered partially sighted), was once denied a job as court officer on a flimsy excuse, he was more than over qualified, so made enquiries. It actually turned out that the reason he was denied was due to the assessers belief, (not even the court service who offered him the job in the first place, just the little burocratic agency who handled the employment), that a person without a car couldnt travel between different courts. Had they actually asked! my brother, they wouldve learnt that all the courts he would be required to visit would be on a bus route. Unfortunately, with society bent on obscuring the capabilities of the blind as a group, this situation of a person who knows bugger all about disability assuming that they are informed enough to make a decision about a disabled person will continue. some of the disability services can actually be even worse, at one point my universitys so called disabilities adviser claimed that disabled people themselves are not the best judges of what they can and cant do There isnt unfortunately a way to fix this in the level of employment, not with the way com panies actually hier people or the assumption of competitive capitalism, however it is fixable on a social level, if a person is in the right environment and willing to put in enough work with others. I remember for example once when i was performing in a light opera, a chap who I hadnt really interacted with much was generaly treating me as though i didnt exist, until I made a joke. He found this joke extremely funny and relayed it to another person, and was shocked! at the fact that the weerd blind man could actually say something funny. usually the point at which people are beginning to stop with the whaaa! hes blind syndrome iss proceeded by the words I dont want to offend you but and either of the questions have you always been blind, or how much can you see Getting people to this point, even in a decent environment is frankly a pain in the kneck. It requires skills of empathy and conver sation and generally a lot of patience, and often you cannot be sure it will work anyway, but its really the only way to go unless! you want to end up stuck at home most of your life. I confess that is sort of my position currently, trying to write a doctoral thesis and various other works while I muster the psychological resources to try socializing again, (sinse I confess its been a pretty bad few months), and look for a group with whom the chances of me actually achieving a level of acceptance might be reasonable. I will say though it can succeed, indeed most of my actual friends have now generally forgotten about my sight and dont particularly take much notice of it, --- apart from being very fond of my dog Reever.As regards the freedom scientific business. On the one hand, the name calling is a bit off, though to be honest I do think this issue is getting slightly overblown. However, bare in mind that as with many coorporations and s ervices who deal with the blind, people get irritated often because! they have no power or choice, or have been made to feel so, (how many institutions insist on people using jaws). I have not directly communicated with fs myself, but also from some of the other companies I have interacted with, I do also wonder if there is an intensive communications barrier between customer and provider. This is true of most companies these days, heck just look at how easy it is to contact an indi developer and request access changes and how hard it is to talk to someone like Nintendo or Capcom because all their development goes on under a mountain somewhere in Japan and all the customers just have to take what theyre given and like it. I have noticed companies who make products for the blind can often fall at the extreme of this, with their customers assumed to be passive and not to have valid opinions, or at least not ones which the companies take note of. For example, i recall the Rnib selling a talking alarm clock which they billed as accessible but which was utterly impossible to set the time of yourself without reading the screen, when I quieried them on this their response was Well you should get your carer to set
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Gene, the family situation I find worryingly believable, however I do not agree with Gellman entirely on the political correctness and normals issue. everybody in society has varying power relations, people vary in intelligence, physical strength, attractiveness whatever, and frequently these variations are due to intrinsically biological factors such as disease or what coctale of genes your born with. What sets the disabled! apart is that they can be quantified as a group, The blind and The deaf particularly, and one of the biggest problems with this group is that for those outside it there really isnt a clear way of having knolidge of those within it, their capabilities or capacities. My brother for example (who is registered partially sighted), was once denied a job as court officer on a flimsy excuse, he was more than over qualified, so made enquiries. It actually turned out that the reason he was denied was due to the assessers belief, (not even the court service who offered him the job in the first place, just the little burocratic agency who handled the employment), that a person without a car couldnt travel between different courts. Had they actually asked! my brother, they wouldve learnt that all the courts he would be required to visit would be on a bus route. Unfortunately, with society bent on obscuring the capabilities of the blind as a group, this situation of a person who knows bugger all about disability assuming that they are informed enough to make a decision about a disabled person will continue. some of the disability services can actually be even worse, at one point my universitys so called disabilities adviser claimed that disabled people themselves are not the best judges of what they can and cant do There isnt unfortunately a way to fix this in the level of employment, not with the way com panies actually hier people or the assumption of competitive capitalism, however it is fixable on a social level, if a person is in the right environment and willing to put in enough work with others. I remember for example once when i was performing in a light opera, a chap who I hadnt really interacted with much was generaly treating me as though i didnt exist, until I made a joke. He found this joke extremely funny and relayed it to another person, and was shocked! at the fact that the weerd blind man could actually say something funny. usually the point at which people are beginning to stop with the whaaa! hes blind syndrome iss proceeded by the words I dont want to offend you but and either of the questions have you always been blind, or how much can you see Getting people to this point, even in a decent environment is frankly a pain in the kneck. It requires skills of empathy and conver sation and generally a lot of patience, and often you cannot be sure it will work anyway, but its really the only way to go unless! you want to end up stuck at home most of your life. I confess that is sort of my position currently, trying to write a doctoral thesis and various other works while I muster the psychological resources to try socializing again, (sinse I confess its been a pretty bad few months), and look for a group with whom the chances of me actually achieving a level of acceptance might be reasonable. I will say though it can succeed, indeed most of my actual friends have now generally forgotten about my sight and dont particularly take much notice of it, --- apart from being very fond of my dog Reever.As regards the freedom scientific business. On the one hand, the name calling is a bit off, though to be honest I do think this issue is getting slightly overblown. However, bare in mind that as with many coorporations and s ervices who deal with the blind, people get irritated often because! they have no power or choice, or have been made to feel so, (how many institutions insist on people using jaws). I have not directly communicated with fs myself, but also from some of the other companies I have interacted with, I do also wonder if there is an intensive communications barrier between customer and provider. This is true of most companies these days, heck just look at how easy it is to contact an indi developer and request access changes and how hard it is to talk to someone like Nintendo or Capcom because all their development goes on under a mountain somewhere in Japan and all the customers just have to take what theyre given and like it. I have noticed companies who make products for the blind can often fall at the extreme of this, with their customers assumed to be passive and not to have valid opinions, or at least not ones which the companies take note of. For example, i recall the Rnib selling a talking alarm clock which they billed as accessible but which was utterly impossible to set the time of yourself without reading the screen, when I quieried them on this their response was Well you should get your carer to set
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @GeneWarnerNo I am not, however, I am also not willing to throw a blanket of blame over everyone at Freedom Scientific for the bad acts of a few misguided souls.There are basically two implied factual statements in what you say.(1) Everyone at FS$ is being attacked.Havent seen any making such a sweeping claim so would you care to back up it with evidence.(2) The bad acts -- namely the policy decisions by FS$ under discussion are only the responsibility of a few misguided souls.If you have any reason for giving the decision makers a free pass, because they they in your opinion are merely misguided souls and by implication not actors to whom moral agency can be assigned, you should back up your opinion with evidence.And there are plenty evidence for past and present policy decisions by FS$ which are still a legitimate matter of public concern.You dont get to defi ne which issues are worthy of criticism.If you have any substantive arguments, by all means state what you think, but simply claiming that people should not focus excessively on FS$ will not do. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222804#p222804 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @gellman;No I am not, however, I am also not willing to throw a blanket of blame over everyone at Freedom Scientific for the bad acts of a few misguided souls.Now, I have a question for you, if this is the software license for JAWS 16, and JAWS 16 was released more than six months ago, why the over long delay before you and other decided to take the terms of the license to issue? For me, that long delay brings into question the real motivations of those who are making a loud noise over the flaws in this license agreement.Anyway, as I said in another thread, Im a JAWS user and a satisfied Freedom Scientific customer, so Im interested in what other people think of them and their products, but not if I have to listen to name calling and other destructive and unhelpful remarks. so Im leaving you to your bashing session. The only thing I ask is to keep your bashing out of the thread titles, its kind of hard to ignore them when your screen re ader reads them to you every time you visit the forums.@Dark;The family situation improves. (Im being sarcastic) I have a couple of things I need to do that requires sighted assistance, my folks are out of town for the summer, they recommended I ask one of my brothers for help. So I contacted one and asked for an hour or two of his time that Id be willing to pay for. Ive tried twice with no response at all, there wont be a third time. Theres got to be a service company that has helpers that go out to clients homes when needed to help them with things they cant do themselves. It will be more expensive than a family member but, it will get the job done.Your disabilities advisor at the university is, unfortunately, not alone, Ive heard other disability authorities say the exact same thing, its apparently a comm on problem among people who work with disabled people.Im not at all offended by questions about my vision, in fact I wish more people would ask me about it, than do, my view is that the more they know about me, the better theyll understand me, and better understanding is a good thing.I was born blind with cataracts. Several eye operations when I was a year old restored my vision in one eye, but because your sense of vision is still developing after you are born, and I was blind for a year, my vision never fully developed, leaving me with 20/60 vision even with the strong glasses I had to where because of the cataract surgery. That basically means that I could only see about one third of the detail someone with normal 20/20 vision sees. I could ride a bike safely, but couldnt pass the eye test to get a drivers license. I had 20/60 vision most of my life. Then when I was 53 years old, I began losing my vision to an aggressive form of glaucoma, that was five years ago. Two years ago I was declared legally blind, but even then I could still see well enough that I didnt need a white cane and only needed a screen magnifier to use a computer. Now, however, all the vision I have left is some light perception, what little I can see is obscured by a fog of random nerve energy that is constantly changing. Its been stable for a while, but I cant help believing that I will eventually go totally blind.I sometimes feel that if you are going to be blind, it would be better to be born that way. After youve had it, and realize what youve lost, losing your vision is pretty traumatic. Some people simply handle it better than others. Losing my vision put me in a deep depression for almost two years.I can understand the problem of feeling powerless. My last job was with a large multinational company, for our department, a new executive had a multi user customer database set up for us. While using it one day , I discovered that it didnt lock records being edited, so it was possible for two users to edit the same record, thus one users edits would be lost. I mentioned this problem to the executive and his response was to not worry about it. Later when a conflict did happen and data was lost, he solved the problem by removing my edit privileges to the database. When other members of our group complained that that was causing a problem for us, his response was to blame me for the data loss, and refused to restore my ability to write to the database. Because he was the executive managing our department, there wasnt anything I could do. It was very irritating and frustrating because I now had an undeserved black mark in my record that always came up as a negative point he used against me during every annual review after that.Before that job, I had a job at a small business that manufactured a piece of medical equipment that was owned by a husband and wife team. I had known this couple for several years before working with them, and I thought we were friends. What a disaster, those two were constantly fighting over who had control of the business and they got me involved in the war by bad mouthing the other when they werent present
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @GeneWarnerYou wrote in the thread a few complaints about the blind comunity in #104:Now, I have a question for you, if this is the software license for JAWS 16, and JAWS 16 was released more than six months ago, why the over long delaybefore you and other decided to take the terms of the license to issue? For me, that long delay brings into question the real motivations of those whoare making a loud noise over the flaws in this licenseSO in that above statement you question the motivation of those who make noise about the license, and you imply that their motivation is suspect becausethey neglected to take up the matter six months ago.I frankly dont understand why you consider this putting words in your mouth.And in #20 of the related thread you write:So, other than to malignand wish for misfortune to befall all the people working at Freedom Scientific for the actions of a few,and of course to attract more readers to view theads on his page and thus earn him a few more pennies, what other motivation could this blogger have to actually read one?Here you are actually going further by implying that the bloggers motivation is not raising the issue but is earning extra ad views on his webpage. Itsclassy, and I have no qualm sourcing these statements.People must judge themselves if they consider my summary of what you have written putting words in your mouth.Now I have provided the proper citations, and people are hence free to judge if my restatement of your views is unfair.this is the last dialogue I have with your Mr. Warner.Thanks.@DarkI have sent you a PM.Regards URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222837#p222837 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Oddly enough, I can easily handle hardware maintenance or repairs myself with no trouble. Even when I could see I often did my hardware work without looking at it because there was often not enough room in the computer case for your hands to do the work and your eyes to watch.That always drove one of my former bosses crazy, he could not figure out how anyone could assemble a computer without looking at it. And I enjoyed bugging him with it! Since I now have a laptop, the computer work is with software that cant be run in Windows so theres no way to get it to talk to me. Things like partition managers, BIOS settings, etc.There has to be a limit to how many labels the Pen Friend will accept, if not for memory availability, then for manufacturing the labels. Each label in your collection has to be unique so that there wont be any confu sion. You cant for example have two label number ones. How would the scanner know to play the recording for the label number one attached to the video game versus the label number one attached to a can of tomato soup? To the scanner theyd both look like the same label.The VoxComs recorder is a small box shaped device with a slot that accepts credit card sized labels, compared to the Voila, it seem crude and clunky.If I remember correctly from the descriptions of it, the Pen Friend, despite its name, isnt even remotely pen shaped, its shaped more like a pencil box that could hold a dozen or so pencils. Its another box like the VoxCom, just narrower and longer than the VoxCom. Since you have one, you can let me know if this is right. On thing that made me hesitate on the Pen Friend was the differently shaped labels. Besides allowing you to tell one label from another, which is what the Pen Friend is supposed to do, I don 39;t see the point.Except for its finickyness about scanning its label, I like the design of the Voila the best. The device is shaped like a magic marker with a large resevior and you are intended to hold it like you would a pen. Its label are small at about half and inch by a couple of inches, small enough to be easily attached to small things without becoming a problem, yet big enough to be easily found.I consider my phone to be an communication and information device, if I need entertainment I reach for the iPod.I guess I could buy some iOS games, but the fact is, I prefer to play games on my PC. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222846#p222846 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Gene, I think theoretically the pen friend has a label limit, but it is somewhere in the thousands. Im not too good at guestimating size in inches so I might have got the size of the pen friends smaller lables wrong, theyre probably only slightly larger in circumference than an average keyboard key if that helps, I know that theyre small enough to stick in very inaccessible places such as the corners of the inserts of dvd boxes so that I can label which disk goes where, not to mention the back of Snes cartridges, (yes, I still own a sness, and a mega drive both in full working order).The Penfriend is more sort of the size of a fat pen, though its rather longer, still the size doesnt matter as much to me sinse it just lies in its box in the draw in my ddesk most of the time.I actually didnt buy the Iphone as a phone. I was using a none speaking nockeea which worked fine for, well just phoning people and I had one of tho se old parrot voicemate diaries that I used for contacts and phone numbers and such. With all the really awesome things going on on Ios though, in 2012I decided I wanted a tablet, and if I was going to get an Ios device I might as well have the speaking phone functions too.There are some great games for Pc, but equally Id recommend looking into Ios sinse there are some very unique things for the platform that probably couldnt be done the same way on a pc, particularly things like audiogames that use 360 directional view and the gyro control so you actually have to turn yourself in the direction you want your character to face, not to mention some extremely cool games that are just fun to play such as the mythical rpg and strategic King of Dragon pass or the very dark and highly tough retro style rpg A dark room, heck now we have adventure to fate as well, not to mention lots of other good stuff from basic card games, competitive trivia games to gameboo ks, indeed I personally like having the Choiceofgames titles available for long train journies. The only thing that irritates me with the Iphone is how badly it interacts with my pc when I want to play audiobooks or music on it from my collection, (and no sorry Apple Im not going to buy any of your proprietory rubbish that is stuck on one device), though in fairness I was fully aware of this when I bought the thing and quite prepared to spend on an mp3 player, its just odd that it took me two years and lots of hitting Itunes with a crowbar before I did realize . URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222878#p222878 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity While Chicago has its flaws, it struck me as a completely different world from anywhere Ive visited in Florida (except maybe Disney, because they actually have amazing buses and ferries and trains). I went to Chicago once with a group from my Chinese class, and everyone was walking everywhere and theres a subway and there are always a couple intersections where there will always be half a fleet of taxis waiting for passengers and we never once had to wait for a City Bus (you know, those noisy smelly things where youre at the mercy of the drivers willingness to tell you where you are without making a fuss?). Its quite possibly the most pedestrian-friendly place Ive ever been inside the US. And I wasnt really being dragged around everywhere so much as I could follow whichever fragment of the group I wanted at whatever distance.At the moment, I just sit alone at home until my parents decide to tell me Im watching their dogs while theyre away (tell, not ask). It can be hot and muggy in Florida, but its rare, in my experience, for it to be as oppressive as it is here. And all the touristy areas Ive been to, while still suffering from American Sprawl, are much, much more walkable than this place. And I really have not taken the past 10 years well, psychologically. There is a bus stop within a reasonable distance, not that I know what Id do if I managed to reach it, but to get there, I have to walk through the local summer and death-swarms (which seem much bigger than they were 15 years ago when I last walked this route) without any sidewalks. I probably could do it, if I was half as healthy as I use to be and I could do it at night in a vampire free time of year to convince the lizard brain that its exactly as safe as it was when I was two.But, again, then what? Theres nothing to do here. This is the sort of town where people either start families and spend all their t ime at work/church/the park/watching TV, or run around in a poorly designed subdivision and do drugs with everyone else who doesnt like staying still but cant find anything better to do. Really, had you told me 10 years ago I would just stay at home trying to make video games, I would have thought of it as a decent outcome (seeing as I hadnt yet discovered that my brain hates me and wont actually let me work on anything unless some arbitrary conditions I can neither comprehend nor control are met). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222592#p222592 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Sounds like you were in the downtown area of Chicago, I lived for six and a half years in River City right on the Chicago River about a quarter mile south of the downtown loop. I absolutely loved it there, however, that was before I lost my vision, but with only 20/60 vision, I was a permanent pedestrian and getting around there was a piece of cake!Then I moved out to Lombard which is about 18 miles west of the downtown area, my apartment there was across the street from a mall, except for a couple of blocks around the mall, there were no pedestrian acomodations, I didnt like it that much, I couldnt get around as easily as I could in downtown Chicago.Im very tempted to thumb my nose at the family that doesnt try to understand what it is to be blind and at least not treat me like some interesting bug or some disease to be avoided, and go back to Chicago.Even though Ive lived in Florida for 30+ years, Ive never gotten used to the heat, and never really liked the state. About the only thing I can think of that Florida has going for it is that they have no state income tax. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222593#p222593 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity One complaint I have with the blind and visually impaired community is how hypocritical they are. They complain about people treating them badly, yet they are so intolerant of other people when they make mistakes.Take this thing with Freedom Scientifics ridiculous license agreement. Most of the blind or visually impaired people here have made it clear they prefer NVDA to JAWS, so Freedom Scientifics license agreement will have no affect on them, yet I see a lot of them resorting to childish behavior like calling Freedom Scientific silly names, and wishing misfortune on its employees, many of which are blind or visually impaired people too.If this is typical of the way blind and visually impaired people behave, I think Ill be careful about my associations with them. Im a mature adult and I prefer to associate with mature adults, or at least people who behave like they are. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222654#p222654 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @GeneWarnerAre you seriously asserting that inserting sleazy clauses in a license is a mistake?Are you seriously asserting that using a software patent to chill competition is a mistake?Of course it isn; and we should not assume otherwise until we have evidence to the contrary.I think its fair to judge a corporation on its written communication, especially when one must assume that the language has been scrutinize and approved by lawyers.No one is attributing collective responsibility to all employees on account of their employers official actions.And FS$ actions speak for themselves. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222721#p222721 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Because corporations are made up of people, and people make mistakes. If you made a bad business decision, would you prefer to recieve constructive criticism, or be maligned behind your back by a vengeful public.And if you cant show any consideration for the disabled people working at Freedom Scientific, how can you expect anyone to be considerate of you? What goes around, comes around, and, you get out of life what you put into it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222718#p222718 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @GeneWarnerSorry, but attacking a corporation is not equivalent with being intolerant of individuals, not even close.A sleezy license which one must assume has been scrutinized by lawyers is not a mistake but a deliberate decision to maximize the profit and lock in customers.One particular thing with FS$ I find backhanded is its retroactive change of the Dongle license.Once it was possible to buy a dongle license as a supplement to the online activated license.But suddently FS$ changed the conditions even for existing holders of Dongle licenses by stipulating that if you once had bought a Dongle license, you would hence lose the right also to activate your license online.Friends of mine who had paid FS$ good money for a Dongle license suddently discovered that they no longer had the right to activate Jaws online.I in no way feel any duty to be tolerant of a private corporation who has attempted to patent the idea of placemarkers having tried to sue a competetor.Yes, FS$ tried to patent the innovasion placemarkers.See the now invalidated Patent US6993707.FS$ sued GWMicro for infringement of its patent on placemarkers, but fortunately the patent was invalidated. The patent on placemarkers was essentially a software patent, and if upheld would equally have threatened opensource development.So I think its understandable why there is a lot of ill will against FS$.Also why should we be more tolerant of a for profit corporation just because it employs people who themselves suffer from disabilities? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222714#p222714 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @GeneWarnerPutting blind children in specialized schools may be the best (or least bad) alternative, when other normal children dont want to play with them.I have no time for the politically correct mantra that normal people would treat us equally socially if they just happened to know us better.For most part, this is a feel good lie perpetuated by those who have a vested employment interest in perpetuating their own jobs, but how many normal people would hire an equally qualified blind person (assuming that equally qualified could be defined) or have a *equal* relationship to a blind person *if* they were able to choose a equally good normal person was it not for the law stating that you must or must not do this or that.And how many mothers would deliberately elect to conceive a child with a disability if technology allowed them to abort it?One reason for why I think that the treatment of blind and disabled is so messed u p is that society and disability rights organizations have a common interest in perpetuating the lie that disability is only a social engineering problem, and that everything will be fine if we can all agree to treat each other well.The problem with this assumption is that it presupposes an equillibrium in the power relationship, but it can never be so, because the majority does not need us as much as we need its understanding. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222487#p222487 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Its not just society that mistreats us, Im mistreated by my own family.My brother once told me where I might be able to get a job, the catch was he wanted 25% of my income for as long as I had the job. Im not opposed to paying a fee for help finding a job, thats how employment agencies make their money, I believe their fee is around 25% of your income, but only for the first three months, not for as long as you have the job they help you to get as my brother wanted. As a way of protesting what my brother was doing and to prevent him from profiting from it, I never applied for the job.At the past two family Christmas parties, after I lost my vision, since nobody knew or wanted to know how to deal with me, theyd put me in a corner, then implied I was to stay there, which they tried to enforce by keeping an eye on me to see if I needed anything, which theyd get for me, so Id have no need to leave my corner. The only thing they d idnt provide was company, they just left me alone in my corner, I didnt enjoy the parties and couldnt wait for it to end so I could go home. I do not plan to attend the family Christmas party this year, If Im going to be alone, Id rather be at home where it would be easier to entertain myself. Maybe, by refusing to attend the party and subject myself to their mistreatment, Ill send a message, and maybe theyll get it, though if past experience is any indication, I doubt it.Thats just two of the many examples of the crapI get from my own family. About the best treatment I get from them is when they just ignore me. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222504#p222504 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Its not just society that mistreats us, Im mistreated by my own family.My brother once told me where I might be able to get a job, the catch was he wanted 25% of my income for as long as I had the job. Im not opposed to paying a fee for help finding a job, thats how employment agencies make their money, I belive their fee is around 25% of your income, but only for the first three months, not for as long as you have the job they help you to get as my brother wanted. As a way of protesting what my brother was doing and to prevent him from profiting from what I thought was his ill treatment of me, I never applied for the job.At the past two family Christmas parties, after I lost my vision, since nobody knew or wanted to know how to deal with me, theyd put me in a corner, then implied I was to stay there, which they tried to enforce by keeping an eye on me to see if I needed anything, which theyd get for me, so Id have no need to leave my corner. The only thing they didnt provide was company, they just left me alone in my corner, I didnt enjoy the parties and couldnt wait for it to end so I could go home. I do not plan to attend the family Christmas party this year, If Im going to be alone, Id rather be at home where it would be easier to entertain myself. Maybe, by refusing to attend the party and subject myself to their mistreatment, Ill send a message, and maybe theyll get it, though if past experience is any indication, I doubt it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222504#p222504 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @GeneWarnerI feel with you, so just imagine how unequally people born with blindness are treated at every stages of their life.It would have been more honest of your family simply to state that you arent welcome, because if the rules of the game are clearly spelled out, you at least have a clear appraisal of of the situation.The problem is that normal people arent willing to frankly state this or that.Political correctness demands that everyone must pretend that they regard disabled persons as human beings of equal worth, but thats obviously thats only true insofar as it free of charge.Also would your brother treat a sighted relative in the same way?I think not, but maybe he thinks its just because your blind and therefore ought to be gracious. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222508#p222508 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @gellman;He probably might, hes so tight fisted, hell drive two hours instead of just one hour simply to avoid paying a couple of dollars on tolls. Then he turns around and complains that it took two hours to get there, then complains about the toll roads if he were to take the faster route.I dont believe hes above taking unfair advantage, or demanding excess compensation as he tried to do with me, if he thinks he can profit from it and get away with it.His wife is a piece of work too. She betrayed me several times and thought she was doing me a favor by doing it.With my own family pulling crap like that on me, Ive been considering putting a little distance between them and me by leaving Florida and moving back to Chicago. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222515#p222515 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hmmm.I never had issue with family jean.No the biggest issue is with the religious people.I understand and respect your religion which is why I let you do things to me prey for me etc.However that is as far as I will go I will not join your organisation.Sadly I wouldnt say I am against all religion I was born a christian though I dont practice all of it really.My point is that once disabled you become a religion magnit.Now thats good if say its a community group or something that helps a charity etc or non proffit.Sadly its all those people that god or fate or whatever seems to want to have pop up in the middle of your life and just seem to pick the most inconvenient time to show.I have never had an experience with religion where it pops up in an appropriate way its all random.Unless you initiate the contact first.As for family Noise and the overload of noise is one of the biggest issues for me.Ie you will never catch me at to many concerts or nightclubs its to noisy for me to hear so I switch off.Next any fluro light or bright lightsource is to put me into a semi seasure of sorts.And believe me my alergies which cause all these can pop up and become violent just when I dont have my supplies in hand.I remember things starting gradually and thinking Id be all ok then I am at some concert and suddenly my head is nodding, my eyes are closing and I am shaking rattling and roling.I try to open them and its like rubbing two bones together.Ofcause I know what has happened but I cant do anything about it and then once my head is aking thats about it.And while I can take my sprayers to clear nose and such a few of them can not be used to much else they will damage my nose and make it hurt.My drops need to keep cold and I cant just pop em in without a drop unit and a flat surface, having good glasses helps and I have had to at times put glasses on inside especially if I am under a light or something.So far its not happened where I am at gym or cutting a cake though I can usually clear most of things with pills if I need to.Sometimes if things dont clear thats usually me for the rest of the day.Even at those parties where I enjoy things even when they are quiet and even when I have enjoyed the loud music they end to fast.Ie new years a few times I am celebrating into the small hours of the morning.Lately though we finnish before that and I am in a foul mood for the reason that at midnight I am in bed.In bed, when everyone is out.Though I guess its not that bad.I know one guy that celebrates his parties with getting plastered.At a party I tested the waters and tried to get plastered on cider.2 bottles got me a headake and 1 small bottle of ginger beer with booze in it was enough to plaster me so I know I cant get plastered which is a good thing I guess.Drugs and such have never interested me.However the sort of party I will enter into will be at a quiet bar witth friends.Ofcause it may just be what I am doing right now.I listen to podcasts for example where some people blind with others maybe 1 or 2 on purpose get themselves lost completely and rely on their gps on smartphones and get interesting results.I am not that outgoing but then after all I was born in the poor helpless blind generation before you pulled your iphone.I havnt as yet got round to using a touch device and with everything touch and with apps bar the fact accessability for me is well something I havnt really poked yet or needed to then I just havnt gone that way.I suspect the next update going foreward though it will be an app centric device, phones started it and now our pcs will follow the same format.And its not like just about every blinky in the world is covering their helplessness with a machine and several apps and really digging it.I havnt made it that far yet but I will.There is a lot more access out there especially with the humble tablet than there ever was with the standard computer. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222514#p222514 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Well.I think in fareness since I know someone in the industry they have it just about right.In my day schools would get funded for disabled but there were no controls on what the cash was supposed for leading to misuse of funds.There are laws on that now.There were also issues with assistance special teachers aids etc that when I did school especially high school and earlier that were lacking a fact now fixed.Even my living skills programs I attended was not up to snuff and while it was slow to get started aparently this stuff is fixed.In defence of the education system at least in new zealand, the blind as well as others had their own special schools and thats where you stayed.Ofcause with no exposure to the real world you were prity much poor and helpless but then so was the world because it didnt want to deal with us at all.Sure I could say some stuff could have been done better.But the past is the past even though hal f of it was total crap we have to start from somewhere.Ofcause if this didnt improve from my source then Id be saying something else.All the blind educational institutes, schools resources and other centers are now one company which funds it self and has government connections of a sort.Something like a union for students in a university but nation wide.Now if something is not right we actually have a voice.Ofcause since we are now a company and not state funded as such things are different being a corperation and all at least with education.And while I had my fair share of issues at school university for me was good.A central resource centre previded me with full access, and monitering, support if and when I needed it.And meetings twice a summester.The only difference was while I didnt always have people holding my hands I was being monitered such that I could report a problem and be assured of a resolution or be told of an issue.Compaired to school it was like a computer monitering app that looked at all the things I did and had live techs look at it and fix things on the fly.I do think the marking was a bit better.I was kept informed of communications where needed.Once they got it wrong with a few things.But they told me about it and tried to fix it.also was the fact that once due to access issuues with part of a course they failed my course because I was disadvantaged, they rewrote the course book so it was more user friendly.Then there was the transcribing of stuff a few days before the course I was going to start started due to access issues.In school when there was a problem and the teacher didnt know what to do not much happened because noone knew.In uuni the same thing happened but all problems went to the resource centre and they slotted assistance to fix the issue so it wasnt like you were left in the dust.< br />Sadly thats been the only time things have worked in my favour.I could go on a rant about government agencies, supposed employment agencies which were state funded etc.And other such things to do with other races.One thing I did notice was that these people at least those in the front are not payed much and are exposed to so much work they literly burn out.When they leave there is a 50% chance or less your data will transfer.If it does things will continue.if not it starts all over again.I put up with it and the local organisation which through unknown reasons decided to move all its creative staff from where they seemed to be needed and do things by the book.The issue with this is if you are not creative you may as well tell the blind that because you are blind and helpless there is nothing for you.The book is not the best, at least right now it isnt.They expect you to find something and run with it.Forget ting qualifications are visual a lot of them and really if I wanted to work in mainstream I couldnt exactly do it for my type of work I want to do.I have little in the way of real experience and qualifications I am not sure what that really means anymore.A few certifficates thats about it.In this world people want people with loads of degrees and even then you dont have it safe.Its pritty certain that a poor blind helpless dood that gets his experience online is not real world office material.Finally after 6 or so years of this I was getting quite angry.Things were in a circular motion.And I was about ready to burn.I had 2 choices.1, just say I quit.2. commit suiside.So I said enough was enough and I quit.Sadly while I do realise people will try to do their jobs I am warey of trusting any agency that says they will find me a job because of what I experienced.Right now I am at home s o it doesnt matter.I guess later on I will go to the whatever disabled place the helpless retarded people go to to work unless something changes.There may be some things but I need to get the courage to face up to things.I think I may have one more try at the job finding thing with agencies maybe.One more and then I gues
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity I know what you mean about corruption, when The Lighthouse for the Blind started, it was well funded and staffed and really did some good work to help the blind and visually impaired. But about ten or so years ago, the people in the Pinellas county chapter wer caught misusing and imbessiling funds. As a result, the division of blind service, a department of our government, cut funding to The Lighthouse in half and have been cutting their budget every year since then. The Lighthouse we have now is only the barest shadow of what it once was. When I lived in Chicago, I visited the Lighthouse chapter up there, that was a really nice place with a lot going on. The Lighthouse down here in Pinellas county Florida is a ghost town compared to the one in Chicago.Youd know better than I what the percentages are in your country, but here in the United States, 85% of legally blind people are chronically unemployed. Its not because they are retarded or unskilled or lazy. Many have college degrees, highly intelligent, and hard workers wit a strong work ethic. Its because nobody is willing to hire blind or visually impaired workers. They take one look at us and decide were an accident waiting to happen, so they dont even want us around as customers, much less employees!It sucks, but theres nothing we or the government can do, all the employer has to say is they hired the best candidate for the job. They simply cant pass a law that prevents a business from hiring the best candidates, so they get away with their discrimination.Beside, even if they did hire you, youd never know whether they hired you because they wanted you or if they hired you to fill a slot in a government imposed percentage of disabled people businesses are supposed to employ, and who would feel comfortable in that situation, I know I wouldnt. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222446#p222446 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Gene, yes, specialized schools do have this issue, although unfortunately its the ones who adapt to the environment and cant live outside it who tend to have the most trouble. @Afrim, I have met blind couples who live together quite well, but like anything else its something that needs both parties to be compitant and know what theyre doing. Unfortunately as regards romance one thing I will say is that for women the situation is far easier and its far more common to find blind women having less trouble than men, because you know men do all the asking. In disability generally the ratio of married women to men is huge, about 6-1, but again, this is societys usual sexist crap that men are put through and people dont recognize, aside from disability attitudes. Btw, no, I do not mean that there is no sexism towards women, only that while there are many people who are always ready to point this out and also people and or ganizations who go against the grain on this, sexist attitudes towards men dont get the same attention, indeed often people dont believe its even possible.As regards people and communications Afrim, your correct that it depends upon the environment and the people, but Ive come to think that sinse I left university things are bloody difficult however compitant and together and skilled you are at coping there really! ought to be some extra compensations somewhere. @Sean, firstly perhaps you could please include more punctuation in your messages sinse it makes them rather hard to read with orphius jabbering away without stopping.sinse when you read a sentence that goes on like this and doesnt stop so you dont know what it is saying sinse it has no punctuation marks whatsoever and the person might be making lots of different points but there is no distinction between them sinse there are no pauses in the speech it makes things a trifle hard to read especially when the person is relating their own experiences and telling several different stories or making points which are likely very interesting but you dont really know what they are sinse there is no distinction between them and the voice just rattles on.To actually answer your question however,I agree technology is vastly improving, but whether that goes along with a change in attitudes I dont know, indeed your comments about jobs and the government in Newzealand illustrate that. My gran was probably the most compitant and together blind person you could imagine, she was one of the first people in the Uk to have a guide dog, she could travel pretty much anywhere using techniques that now to me seem nuts, like telling buss routes by the rythm of the bus, she cooked regularly using pretty much everything and was also one of the most social and extravert people imaginable. However, even she! complained at peoples attitudes and was regularly treated as if she didnt exist. Unfortunately Im coming to the conclusion that whatever technology or compitancy you learn, you cannot actually have inclusion until peoples attitudes change, for example you can have a company hier a blind person for a high powered job, but how efficiently they do that job depends upon how well people around them treat them, and thats even assuming a company wants to hier a blind person in the first place sinse more frequently than not these days the anti disability discrimination laws actually have the opposite effect, where a company believe a blind person is incapable of performing a given job but instead of asking or making enquiries they just deny the person on some flimsy excuse.Equally, you can have a blind person join others for a social group, but if nobody actually talks to the blind person or treats them as thou gh they have a brain, it will just not be successful. blindness in general seems to go along with some of the worst attitudes among the none disabled population, and I have no idea why, but its a regular pain in the kneck. OPf course it isnt universal, however it is rather telling that most of my friends are either friends I met at university, friends I met at things connected to university which I joined later, or friends I meet at my aims summer music school which is like university. I dont know any sort of generic people I meet on the street or in a pub or at some social event or occasion at all, and even with meeting uni students, it still usually takes an hour or two, and for me to engage all my conversational skills and empathy to get people past the whaaa! weerd blind man syndrome.For example, last week where was a try out choire thing, where 600 people got together in a big hall to sing duel of the fates and zadok the priest in a concert with the Halli orchestra. The one person who actually bothered talking to me was surprisingly a uni student. When we actually did the performance itself,I went in full Jedi robes, just because when else would I get a chance to sing Korah! mahtah! Korah
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Afrim and Gene, funny, I could say exactly the same about attitudes among the general population over here. Whatever laws Britain does or does not have, generally unfortunately the blind = alien attitude still persists. Its interesting, my friend with the arthritis went from having a very invisible disability with her depression which people treated rather badly, to having a very visible and acceptable one with her wheel chair and has often stated how nice people are, both about access, and just on a basic social level.Its still unfortunately true however that if your blind, most people think you dont exist. That people dont know about screen readers etc is understandable, sinse obviously if youve never had to use one why would you know about it, but what bothers me more is the attitude of blind people as alien, as intrinisically different, as not being part of society. Indeed, I always think it is quite odd that now there ar e lots of different characters on tv in wheel chairs, from villainous to heroic to annoying, but on the few occasions a blind person is shown on tv their blindness is still the major and most important fact about them, whether theyre a super dare devil sensomatic awesome ninja, or a completely helpless person who cant do anything for themselves, either way it is their blindness that is their chief defining feature. Ive actually begun to think in the past few years that in addition to provision for equal access, ie, the state attempting to compensate for biological short comings, there should be some provision for equal inclusion or some compensation for the fact that most blind people end up being very alone and not treated as part of society generally. what form this compensation should take Im not sure, though I will say it is another reason I dont feel overly guilty about accepting disability bennifit or any particular urge to go out and attempt to apply for a generic job like working on a shopcounter or as a generic cog in some office somewhere just because its what other people have to do (even if I could get one). Of course, if the chance to do something actually interesting that requires my tallents (probably writing or singing), came up Id definitely take it, but that Im not contributing to society or at least not contributing to the economy is not something I feel exactly guilty over, give me a wife and a bunch of friends and all the acceptance that other people get just by existing then well talk. @Brad, the eldily thing is pretty unique to blindness, particularly I have to say in Britain, where the Rnib refuses to even acknolidge that anyone under sixty exists, (you can get all the braille knitting patterns you want, but nothing like braille tabletop rpg resources), they even on one informational day spent two solid hours on legacy donations aka trying to persuade people to leave them money in their wills, which was not just so specific to eldily people it was ridiculous, verged on the brain washing.This is part of the reason I dont tend to have much to do with groups for the blind setup in britain, that and the fact that of the few people who are! under sixty, far too many are rather cleaquey and specialist school orientated in their attitude. I will say though be certain with housing what your actually being recommended, sinse different councils work differently. My own flat for example, is a priority flat. This means that when people apply for council housing, they will give priority to eldily and disabled people with these specific flats first, although not uniquely, my down stairs neighbor is in her fourties and has no disability at all. I was concerned that the flats would have lots of rules and regulations, or a warden who checked in on people, o r essentially function more liek an old folks community, however none of those things were the case. In practice it is just like living in any flat anywhere, I can invite my friends round and do what I want and not particularly have anyone check up on me provided I dont you know vandalize anything or the like. The nice thing is also that sinse Durham city council is my landlord, they basically will provide all the maintenence for free. If my pipes burst or my taps leak, I phone the council and they will send a plummer, they will mow the lawn and take care of the grass, and additionally though I nominally pay wrent, sinse I recieve housing bennifit from the council anyway the housing bennifit pays my rent instead and I only have to pay for utilities like water and electricity, (not to mention my phone and internet). My flat is also not on an estate or some grotty housing project, neither is it one of a hole bunch in a huge tower block, its in a building with four flats on a rather nice road with trees and flowers in the center of Durham, actually next to Durham prison .Id therefore suggest Brad you be certain exactly of what your getting
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Afrim and Gene, funny, I could say exactly the same about attitudes among the general population over here. Whatever laws Britain does or does not have, generally unfortunately the blind = alien attitude still persists. Its interesting, my friend with the arthritis went from having a very invisible disability with her depression which people treated rather badly, to having a very visible and acceptable one with her wheel chair and has often stated how nice people are, both about access, and just on a basic social level.Its still unfortunately true however that if your blind, most people think you dont exist. That people dont know about screen readers etc is understandable, sinse obviously if youve never had to use one why would you know about it, but what bothers me more is the attitude of blind people as alien, as intrinisically different, as not being part of society. Indeed, I always think it is quite odd that now there ar e lots of different characters on tv in wheel chairs, from villainous to heroic to annoying, but on the few occasions a blind person is shown on tv their blindness is still the major and most important fact about them, whether theyre a super dare devil sensomatic awesome ninja, or a completely helpless person who cant do anything for themselves, either way it is their blindness that is their chief defining feature, they are very much blind! people, not people! who happen to be blind Ive actually begun to think in the past few years that in addition to provision for equal access, ie, the state attempting to compensate for biological short comings, there should be some provision for equal inclusion or some compensation for the fact that most blind people end up being very alone and not treated as part of society generally. what form this compensation should take Im not sure, though I will say it is another reason I dont feel overly guilty about accepting disability bennifit or any particular urge to go out and attempt to apply for a generic job like working on a shopcounter or as a generic cog in some office somewhere just because its what other people have to do (even if I could get one). Of course, if the chance to do something actually interesting that requires my tallents (probably writing or singing), came up Id definitely take it, but that Im not contributing to society or at least not contributing to the economy is not something I feel exactly guilty over, give me a wife and a bunch of friends and all the acceptance that other people get just by existing then well talk. @Brad, the eldily thing is pretty unique to blindness, particularly I have to say in Britain, where the Rnib refuses to even acknolidge that anyone under sixty exists, (you can get all the braille knitting patterns you want, but nothing like braille tabletop rpg resources), they even on one informational day spent two solid hours on legacy donations aka trying to persuade people to leave them money in their wills, which was not just so specific to eldily people it was ridiculous, verged on the brain washing.This is part of the reason I dont tend to have much to do with groups for the blind setup in britain, that and the fact that of the few people who are! under sixty, far too many are rather cleaquey and specialist school orientated in their attitude. I will say though be certain with housing what your actually being recommended, sinse different councils work differently. My own flat for example, is a priority flat. This means that when people apply for council housing, they will give priority to eldily and disabled people with these specific flats first, although not uniquely, my down stairs neighbor is in her fourties and has no disability at all. I was concerned tha t the flats would have lots of rules and regulations, or a warden who checked in on people, or essentially function more liek an old folks community, however none of those things were the case. In practice it is just like living in any flat anywhere, I can invite my friends round and do what I want and not particularly have anyone check up on me provided I dont you know vandalize anything or the like. The nice thing is also that sinse Durham city council is my landlord, they basically will provide all the maintenence for free. If my pipes burst or my taps leak, I phone the council and they will send a plummer, they will mow the lawn and take care of the grass, and additionally though I nominally pay wrent, sinse I recieve housing bennifit from the council anyway the housing bennifit pays my rent instead and I only have to pay for utilities like water and electricity, (not to mention my phone and internet). My flat is also not on an estate or some grotty housing pr oject, neither is it one of a hole bunch in a huge tower block, its in a building with four flats on a rather nice road with trees and flowers in the center of Durham, actually next to Durham prison .Id
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi.Well Im going to look into it when my course finishes. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=06#p06 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Maybe I take it for granted. But Canadians generally have a much more open attitude... of course you still find people who treat us the way Dark was describing it above, but if its any indication, it feels like were much luckier here than the UK. I have a good circle of friends most of whom are actually sighted, Im involved in a good number of organizations where blindness is not a factor. Of course there are times when I dont feel like m as big a member of society as Id like, but those are fewer and further between than they used to be. Having said that, our national institute the blind, the CNIB, is very similar to the UKs RNIB in the sense that they focus pretty much entirely on people over the age of 60... but we also have a non profit here in my province that is geared towards kids and youth, which is a huge blessing if there ever was one. And althouggh we may feel like people who are blind are the only people who get pushed off to th e side, I dont think people who are in wheelchairs or anyone with another disability have it any easier. I do agree with dark, however, on the fact that most characters who are blind on TV tend to have it as a central feature... though especially in Daredevils case, I dont know exactly how true that is. He doesnt have superabilities because he is blind, those are a result of his accident with the chemicals which blinded him in the first place... people just tend to lump the two together. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=23#p23 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @DarkAs a blind person I find life difficult but sometimes we can change anything to improve it. From going to school, to setting up your own family is hard. Many sited women wont agree marrying a blind guy since they have no information how things work, or they may just not want to marry a blind person, and that is their answer. Dont consider an offence, since Im blind myself, but marrying a blind girl would be very very difficult to cope with life. You may have money, you may have a good infrastructure there where you live, but two completely blind people cannot live together, on their own.As you said, deafness and blindness are the worst disabilities with communication issues, but they also involve other factors as well.Things may work very well when you find good people, and especially those who create a good attitude twards us. I didnt ever think things would go so good in my public school and it has been a really really good time there.I sometimes get bord by my blindness. I like to go out with friends, or meet more frequently those ones I have actually. I like to enjoy the attractiveness of some girls I really like but that is impossible. I love driving with my car listening to my favourite music loudly, but that is again impossible. Being stuck on your computer most of the time is frustrating. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=59#p59 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @dark;I know what you mean about blind and vision impaired oriented organizations. I got my rehabilitation training at The Lighthouse for the Blind, turns out the training they gave me was so minimal that it might as well be non-existent. My mobility training was one hour a week for seven weeks. I got my white cane training while still had enough vision that I didnt need the cane. So during the training I use my eyes more than I used my cane, and they approved, never even attempting to force me to rely on the cane. So when my vision deteriorated to the point that I really had to rely on the cane, I was basically having to train myself to use it. I realized I needed help so I decided to retake the mobility training. When I tried to sign up to retake the mobility training, they refused, saying Id already taken it and couldnt take it again.And then theres the issue about screen readers. The only screen reader theyd recommend was JAWS, when I heard the $900 price, I asked if they knew of any less expensive alternatives, they told me not really, there are other screen readers, but they cost about the same as JAWS, but arent as good as JAWS. It turns out they knew of NVDA, but for whatever reason, refused to say anything about it. The really irritating thing about this is that many blind or visually impaired people simply cant afford to plunk around a thousand dollars down on a piece of software and The Lighthouse would rather leave them in the dark than tell them about NVDA. And these people are supposed to be helping us?I have since discontinued any association with The Lighthouse. They have prooven to me that they are not my friends. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=31#p31 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Assault freak, Ive heard as much of the Cnib, and you may well be right about Canida generally, certainly Ive noticed the Dutch, the Germans, people from Scandinavian countries have a much better attitude towards disability generally blindness included. I do have to say though that from the research Ive done blindness and deafness are the two disabilities with the worst communication issues, deafness for obvious reasons, although in the case of deafness there is so much group identity and language identity (there are many deaf people who even claime to not be disabled at all), that there is at least a much more active cultural element than with blindness. Part of this is undoubtedly practical, sinse one of the major tools used by sighted people for communication is eye contact, and thats something blind people cant do, however I dont see why if a sighted person can realize someone in a wheel chair cant walk acros s the room to say hi, they cant realize someone who is blind cant make sodding eye contact. this is compounded by the issue that conversation is something of a dying art form, and eye contact is largely replacing it, look at how much of social life revolves around environments like crowded pubs and night clubs where ambient noise makes any form of communication but eye contact near impossible. I will say in the right group and environment, things can work extremely well. During my degree and time at university things were amazing, I was not only accepted by most people as a default but I even got to engage in some fairly responsable positions of authority. Unfortunately, university is different to pretty much any other environment you will find and sinse I finished my degree Ive only ever found that level of open mindedness around students, which is just plane depressing. @gene, one thing Ive noticed about a lot of blindness org ganizations is they have very much a our rules or nothing sort of mindset. jaws is what they! offer so they tell people its best irrispective of anything else, they have set cane teaching techniques that they use for a set amount of time for eaqch person irrispective of sight level, preferences or anything else. I will say this is my I have issues with a lot of blind people whove gone the institutionalized route sinse they tend to have adopted this mind set, that they assume there is only one set method or set idea in life, and take what is given and dont enquire outside it.Oddly enough it makes me feel rather more alone among other blind people, sinse when i mention having friends who arent blind or using the train or what not and get the disbelief response it can be rather annoying, plus Ive noticed a tendency among rather a few blind people to associate only with that small number of people they met during their t ime at specialist school and nothing else. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=41#p41 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Specialized schools for the blind may help to teach blind people the skills theyll need to live in a sighted world. But I wonder if separating the blind people from sighted people by putting them in separate schools instead of the public schools everyone else goes to doesnt do more harm than good. Ive read lots of true stories where the blind people seem to always say that they couldnt wait to get out of the specialized school and go to the same schools their sighted friends go to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=92#p92 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi all.[[wow]], just [[wow]] this is a heavvy thing.Firstly, While I dont think everything should be free or low cost because of my dissability I do think that if I am entitled to something under law I should get exactly what I am entitled to because well if it says its my right to get it then I should get it.That asside, its not all smooth sailing.For those that say you should get everything for free because you are a poor and helpless blindy then you havnt had to fight for your rights yet.Thats right I said fight!Here in new zealand there were several small battles fought by blind consumer organisations.One of them concerned the serving of the blind on a jurey the other was the right for us to get a job and not if we earned over a certain amount we would automatically loose our benifit.Obviously if you were getting a absolutely silly lot of cash that wouldnt apply.I am sure there are more battles in my country of new zealand.There have been fights like the fact that there are those that defraud the system by getting say a computer for a course then dropping out or just sit on their ass doing nothing.So the government decideds we should all even if disabled have jobs.This battle isnt over, but at least for now the blind dont have to work or rather they need to be looking for work but as long as its in the system that we are looking for work and are willing it wont matter right now if we find work or not.It could have been that we would have to do work even if all the jobs were availible was in some sort of retarded place putting bottle tops on bottles then we would be blind and retarded to.This seems to have not happened but as I understand this this battle is not over.You think that because you are entitled to it you should get it and everything should be free.Yes I agree in a perfect world that because I am blind if its entitled for me to get something it is my right.Those rights are not for granted and not in stone.Sadly I have friends that are autistic.Even if you get a job the disabled and in particular the part timers are the first to go when the financial shit hits the fan.Not everyone knows how to act with the disabled sadly.As far as freedom scientiffic and such a lot of these access tech companies have grown up previding their services for those that can pay, the disabled orgs, the governments, etc.The prices are for other companies not for consumers.Saying that with the way things are going while this is sadly not in range with such things as braille hardware and such moves are being made everywhere to reduc prices.The dolphin stuff is relitively cheap and there are extra things with various access tech.The fact we can use a lot more mainstream devices etc.I am not sure about freedomscientiffic.I know windoweyes and a i are now doing the free basic package with office.While not everywhere nvda has been accepted as a good consumer program and this and opensource and such means that companies and all that will have to change.The fact that being blind means you are poor, helpless and stupid is dieing or at least on the way out.If this was back in the 1980s and earlier then it would be a different story but like the dodo and with things like the net, while relitively the real world thing for the blind as far as things have been has expanded to its limit the fact we have all this tech means while in the real world the blind are still the way they will always bee much of it has been replaced by this and that device.A lot of it mainstream.Examples are not just the phone, a laptop etc.If you complain about your screenreader being expensive think how much it was before.Prices will drop its just going to take longer.I cant answer all the que stions or points but I get it with the frustration.For example I know while your average blindy braille device can run blindy apps and maybe the old z code game and do all functions the blind business person can do, I know with windows and a laptop I can run almost any app I want unless its graphiced up to buggery and thats mainly some sighted games.A lot of that is changing.While yes there are the big companies, you can for the most part move away from them depending what you are doing.If not for work at least for home.And to be honest if you cant find something or something doesnt work etc and you have no idea what to do there is probably an app for it.I mean here I am calling everything an app now and I would never dream of that ages ago.And just so people dont think I am barking up the wrong tree Id like to share a small story.I started in 1990 just as everyone was moving to mainstream and no one knew what w as what.Before that we had blind institutions we still do but its a lot better and its all changed.Back then the disabled stayed in a place with all other disabled.Later intigration started but in the early years it wasnt always that good everyone was testing the water.Stuff we take for granted
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi.I couldnt agree more. I have DLA and ESA which is great and Im thankful for having it. But! The laws in the UK are really not good when it comes to disability. Yes you can get things for free but something Ive never liked is this Disability and blindness Im not sure about people with hearing problems, but blindness and other disabilities are usually in the same box as elderly people. Which is not true, you can be young and have a disability of course but the people who make the laws, want to put you in places with the elderly or treat you as if youre stupid. I might be looking in to going to a place for the blind in a place called shepards bush, and yes its for elderly people, but do I really want to do that? No. Will I have to in the end? i honestly dont know but the way housing in my area is going I think I might. I was refused housing due to the fact that I already live with my parents. I can understand that, oh I dont like it; but I understand it. What really gets me though is this; on the form online that you have to fill in, it says do you have a disability? So i ticked it. I wrote Im blind and described my condition. On the letter that refused my housing form, it says disibility? No. Which is stupid because Im blind. I didnt fight back then but after this massage corse Im thinking about doing that. Although Ive been told that Ealing council wont help anyone under the age of 25 now, which is the stupidest thing Ive herd but it doesnt surprise me. So Ive got 3 more years to go until i can get help again. So who knows what will happen in that time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222140#p222140 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity A constitution , or at least our constitution, doesnt help all that much because it says nothing about treating disabled people equally. For those that have them, audio announcements of upcoming stops on busses are there because most people, including sighted passengers, want them. Not because theres a law that says they are required.The FCC, similar to your BBC, though they dont operate any radio or TV stations themselves, requires that the major TV networks provide a certain amount of programming with descriptive audio for the blind and visually impaired. They must think that because wee cant see we arent interested in being entertained, because their minimum works out to about four hours of programming a week. The networks, not the FCC, decides which programs to provide descriptive audio for, so they pick shows that dont need it, so they only have to do a very minimal amount of work to comply, and the FCC is happy with that. Its up to the FCC to decide whether the networks are in compliance, not the blind and visually impaired viewers. If it was up to the viewers, none of the networks would be in compliance.In the early 90s, the American Disabilities Act was enacted to provide equal access opportunities to people with disabilities. Mostly it helps people with physical disabilities, like people in wheelchairs, it does almost nothing for blind or visually impaired people. I had to go to the offices of the social security administration to apply for disability benefits. I told them I was blind and asked if someone would be available to help me get to where I needed to be within their building. They said, no, they said the law requires that their building be equally accessible to everyone, if you need help finding where you need to go, you have to provide that yourself. To me thats not equal accessibility, yet they are considered to be in full compliance with the law. While I dont approve of it, I cant fault the entitled attitude that many of the blind and visually impaired, as well as other disabled people, and other minorities, adopt because, society in general seems bound and determined to squash them and their rights any time they get the chance. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222142#p222142 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity You guys appear to be very lucky.In my country the laws for visually impaired people are not really good. The infrastructure is dam bad and you cant move, even half a mile on your own. I also remember that local busses do not require blind people to pay when they take the bus, but if the blind person himself is able to get on it, they are the most fortunate people in the world, since busses are very crowded and people are not very well-educated, or simply do not know how to act with blind people.I do not usually get on the bus because I travel by my personal Car and that is very good, but not all people have this opportunity. Some do not own a car, or others do not use it frequently, simply because busses are cheaper. Also, I use my car only to travel around this city, because as I said, busses are cheaper and you do not need to spend too much to go to another city.I remember some years ago we didnt need to pay the whole amount of our electricity bill s, but only 20% of it. But they changed the law, because many people were abusing and they decided to make up for it by adding some more money to our monthly pension or however you call it there.I also dont like the behavior of our associations here. They rise the extent of the disability of blind people so much, hoping that any big businesses will donate to us so as to make any projects for blind people. I dont really think that we are so much disabled as they consider us. There are so many people here who, if they see a blind people for the first time, they think he or she cant do anything. I remember when I started using laptop at my new public school three years ago, many people got stunned how I could do it. But for them, using a pear of small headphones didnt make sense. They didnt have any ideas what screen reading technology is. So they kept observing me all the time the first time I used my laptop.Its true we are disabled, bu t not completely. We can work, we can learn, we can study, we can lecture. So I dont think that disability is very big in this case. Its problematic, but avoidable in some ways. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222177#p222177 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity I know this is an old topic, it showed up in the results of an unrelated search. Probably because NVDA is mentioned in it. Anyway, I just felt that I needed to put in my two cents worth.Ive had vision problems my whole life, for most of my life I had perfectly usable 20/60 vision, but in 2010 I started losing my vision to an very aggressive form of glaucoma and was declared legally blind in July of 2013.I was fortunate, as part of my benefits package, my last employer included short and long term disability insurance, which pays 60% of your last salary until retirement age when social security takes over. So, between the disability insurance and social security disability benefits, I dont have to work and in fact decided to retire early.Do I feel entitled? Yes I do, the law says I qualify for the social security benefit income and I earned the disavility insurance benefit by working hard.Some of my family members complain, I just tell hem th at if they want to join me all they have to do is go blind, that usually quiets them down.This is how I feel about discounts and free things due to a disability. If its something the law says you are qualified for and should recieve it, if you want it, then by all means, make sure you get it, just dont be rude or obnoxious about it.If its offered to you, you can accept, but do it graciously with a thank you, dont act like its your due, because it isnt, the person or company making the offer is just being kind, be kind in return.With that said, I will say that no matter how much I might want some discount or freebie, I *never* ask for it. Ill let them offer it, if they will.But, if its something I need, like help with shopping, or guidance through an airport, Ill ask for assistance, but I do it politely, waiting for my turn at the customer service counter. And while Im waiting for whom ever will be help ing me to arive, I step out of the way so the next person in line can have their turn.To me its all just simple common sense. Being rude and obnoxious like the world owes you a favor or that you are entitled, will just make most people resistant to your demands. And just makes you unwelcome. But if you treat people with respect and consideration, most will be more than happy to do what they can for you.Am I perfect? No! Not by a very long shot! But I do try.Now for some specific points brought up in this thread.I use JAWS because that was all the people at The Lighthouse, where I got my rehabilitation trainning, knew about. I feel rather foolish that I didnt do my own research, had I done so, I might be using NVDA instead.I have KNFB reader for my iPhone 5s, sometimes I love it because it does a really good job, but other times I wonder why I wasted my money on it when all it returns is gibberish. The gibberish might be from motio n blur, though I try to be very still while it is taking the picture it will scan. Ive heard that it works a lot better on iPhone 6 and 6+ with their hardware based anti blurring, or is it called picture stability. I waited quite a while before buying it, hoping for a demo or trial version, I eventually gave up waiting, which turned out to be a good decision because there is still no demo or trial version, and at this point, Id be willing to bet that there never will be.So, theres my two cents worth, for what its worth. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222088#p222088 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Update to my previous post:One thing to consider about KNFB Reader, unlike many cheaper and free OCR apps, with KNFB Reader, your documents are processed right there on your device. Many of the other OCR apps, send the picture of the document to be scanned to a server where it is processed and the results sent back to you, this leads to privacy concerns. Im perfectly comfortable using KNFB Reader to scan my personal mail that I would never consider scanning with a server based OCR app. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222102#p222102 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @GeneWarnerI wholeheartedly agree with your stance on getting benefits to which you are entitled as a matter of law.Let me ponder the question -- do normal (sighted) people feel shame if they can get a tax exemption, rebate at a supermarket due to their employment or other cheap or nearly free goodies?I think the answer to that question is virtually always no, so why should visually impaired persons not grab all they can given that lack of sight is a disability normal people would not swap for a million. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222125#p222125 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity I can see that arguement, and I dont disagree with stance on bennifits, (hell if I wished sinse a good amount of my sight issues are due to medical mistakes I could probably sue the nhs if I were so inclined though I have no desire to kick up that kind of stink). However my only issue with well its what the law says your entitled to is that firstly the law can change, and secondly getting hold of something often requires far more of a ball game than it should and those people assessing how and in what manner the law is applied dont always do so in a completely none biased way.A friend of mine for example, after suffering for years with serious, indoginous depression (the sort where she has to not keep pill bottles in the house incase she tries to overdose in one of her less good moments), then developed serious jouvenile arthritis and hyper mobility to the point that she now has trouble handling objects and must use a wheel chair. Any prat can see shes disabled and should by rights qualify for disability living allowance, heck Id have argued she shouldve qualified on the basis of the depression alone even before she developed her arthritis. Yet, when she applied she was initially refused simply because the form is intentionally missleading and the government at the time was on a huge deny people bennifits kick. For example the section required for testimonies of disability from medical professionals is labeled Any additional testimonies and my friend hadnt initially filled it in. This tendency to play the law regarding bennifits as a game of denial, rather than for the bennifit of those its required for is actually getting far worse. Then in addition to miss application of the existing law, there is the issue of what inequities already exist within the law that should need solving.For example, it is not currently the law in Brit ain that busses have audio announcements. The government has flatly denied making this legal, despite a campaign. However, Id argue that this is an instance where there should! be a law. Busses have all the informmation for sighted people available, you wouldnt catch people boarding a bus with blacked out windows so they didnt know which stop was which and it is the responsability of the state to provide equality in public services just as wheel chair ramps are required for public buildings.I think this might to an extent be a difference in culture. I know Americans have an immutable constitution that is seen as an arbiter of moral authority and a conveyer of rights. In Britain however the law is more fluidly constructed with respect to what the law lords happen to alter, thus if a new law or right is required according to other moral principles such as utility or state responsability it is something to be campaigned for based on that moral authority, rather than being a question of trying to argue that existing legal rights conveyed by constitution are being denied, indeed in general in the field of ethics rights based morality systems are far more popular in the states where as in the Uk systems such as Rawlsians idea of justice based on principles of universal equality are at least theoretically more common as the basis of juris prudence, though of course whether the government stops playing their eternal cross party cricket match long enough to take any bloody notice of moral principles is another question, (they havent in the case of bus announcements thus far unfortunately). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222131#p222131 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi morecofee50.You might want to take a look at NVDA.www.nvaccess.orgIts a free screen reader which I use every day.Im just mentioning it cause it might help you with your day to day life. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=189262#p189262 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity I realize that in the grand skeme of things, Im merely a grain of sand among many. So, Ill say my bit, and move on. I think, ove the years weve made a good deal of progress, and Ive been alive for 40 years to see that happen. When I first started school, I had to fight to be in a mainstream classroom situation. Now, there are many who take advantage of being in such a situation. Ive never minded paying for something within reason, but, in so doing, I have to balance out whether it is important to me. I live on my own, I raise my daughter. Sometimes, at the end of the month, I have almost nothing left. So, I have to save for quite awhile to get some of these things, and that is assuming my daughter doesnt have things come up that she needs more. All Im saying is that sometimes, these companies do charge more than they should forthings and sometimes, its not a matter of will I pay f or an item,...Its can I. If the answer is no, then its one more piece of technology that I wont be seeing. Im thankful for what I have, and until I can do better, Ill make what I have work. *warm smile* Ill thank the developers who put their time and effort into making things accessible for us, and Ill thank the members of this site and others because I learn new and valuable things every day from you all. Thanks for letting me voice my thought. Each of you have a wonderful day. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=189094#p189094 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Dark, I had no idea you were such an optimist.If theres no practical way to either prevent a problem neither prepare for it you might as well just carry on as if the problem doesnt exist, its the only way to keep sane in any case. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188739#p188739 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity I disagree on that point Cx2. There is a lot to be said in just having the view out there even if nobody listens to you sinse ultimately if you sit and do nothing then its your own fault if nothing happens. This is why I went and protested against the Iraq war, not because I thought the government would change their mind, (I actually didnt), but because if I said nothing then I was condoning the governments action. Same thing with disability. Its important to say what needs to be said even if nobody listens, which is precisely why Ive spent so much blood sweat and tears actually trying to write something decent on the subject, and convincing one person, one developer one organization that equal access matters youve at least done something even if it doesnt ultimately in the scheme of things change the lives of disabled people that much. Nope, this isnt optimistic, but then again were not a particularly nice specie s. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188751#p188751 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
2014-09-11
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity I live by this rule. Reality is nothing; your interpretation is everything. The government is eventually made up of the people who creaed it. If you look back at a YouTube video in which I think is a monologue between an alien and an Earthling take place it explains what a government is. I have thought of planning a new system, poitical and economic, and how we could start a revolution. I have seen this happen many times when people dont agree with the governments decisions, with its, stringent regulations and its extreme legalities over humanitarian efforts, etc. I say we should balance out how much of an optimist and a realist we should be, but not be a pessimist because that would be bad. I am a little more on the perfectionists side, and I do think we can pursue perfection, but not the actual act of being perfect. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188754#p188754 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Well Ive seen that alien thing, though bare in mind at least some of the points there were rather American specific, for example Britain has no absolute constitution which is unchangeable the way America does, in Britain if laws need changing the law lords will redraft them as needed. Thats not to say the British system is perfect, not with first past the post democracy, so much party politics and the use of party whips meaning that you effectively arent voting for your local mp so much as your voting for their party instead.I dont think however its the national government that is the major problem so much as it is the influence of capitalism in our thinking, the idea that the generation of prophet must superseed most everything else and for example an access company must generate prophet to exist even when providing equal access as I said. This isnt to say Im a total Stalinist and want the government in control of everything , however until we realize that greed for prophet isnt really a coherent way to run the world I dont see much changing. Im not saying prophet is a bad thing or capitalism is entirely bad, only that the unrestricted generation of prophet with no underlying principles which currently dominates the world isnt helpful. Unfortunately though, this isnt actually a system anyone has put in place, its just a set of circumstances that have grown over time, and like any circumstances they will likely change in the future, though whether for the better or the worse its uncertain. One interesting thing I find is when you look back at medeival thinking there were a lot of absolutes people believed in which were staples of the way things were. The need of serfs to literally be owned by their lord and pay duty to the king and thee Church, the absolute belief that the King had a divine right to rule etc. We now look back on such absolute s and think they were barbaric. i do wonder if in five hundred years someone will look back at us and say oh those poor people believing prophet was so important, how deluded I hope so, but I cant be sure sinse were very good at not learning from history. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188763#p188763 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Dark, I maybe wasnt quite clear but I did mean if nothing at all can be done in any form. If convincing one person can be done then I agree we should, but if like you say were heading for a major crash which cant be averted then we might as well just carry on as normal unless or until that happens. If the crap hits the fan in that regard well have to deal with it when it happens but for now we need to keep trying to improve things in our current climate regardless of whether said climate will last or not. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188803#p188803 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity My comments about the crash were more a response to ggf saying things might change next century, sinse Im really not certain at this point whether well come to our senses or not. Its more the recognition that the current situation isnt really one that could be perminant, though whether this changes with a major violent upheaval or a slower more gradual change into something hopefully better I dont kno, its just the recognition that the current capitalist system cant last forever the way it is going at the moment, similar to the recognition that the cold war couldnt last forever either. In the mean time however I do agree that doing what you can is a good idea, though it sometimes feels like your pushing against an extremely large brick wall. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188811#p188811 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
2014-09-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Green Gables Fan via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity I agree with Dark, with post number three. I wont spend time going through every single post. What I think we would need is an alternative economy, where we wouldnt compete all the time, but sadly, I dont see that happening, unless we became immortal to see the next century. Of course, this is the Western world. The Eastern world is different from ours. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188637#p188637 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity The Eastern world is indeed different but that doesnt necessarily equate to better, neither does it equate to worse. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188640#p188640 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Ill also note that the eastern world, at least exemplified by China, India and Japan are just as much under the thumb of the same prophet at all costs multinational monopoly system as we are and in many cases having a lot worse time. I agree we arent likely to see a major change in disability status for some considderable time, though I am a bit less optimistic about whether it will happen or nnot I dont know sinse failing a major change in the power of governments vs the power of coorporations I cant see our current situation ending in anything other than a very major crash. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188653#p188653 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Well you might be correct, though to be honest I still doubt itd make tv cheap enough to warrent the little that I bother watching the thing.Reever doesnt really have an issue with needing background noise, partly because Im in an upstares flat, so usually shell wait for someone to actually start walking up the stairs before she got the idea they were coming, but mostly because shes just plane lazy anyway . URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188481#p188481 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Yeah, when theres even the slightest hope of someone visiting Kirks at the very least watching the door and more usually wanders over to it wagging his tail hopefully. He just loves people that much, its quite sweet apart from the fact that he can get a little bit overexcited on occasion. My TV was broke for a while off to be repaired and I ended up leaving him a talking book playing on my laptop if I had to be upstairs for anything but I think that mostly just put him to sleep. FYI my front doors straight onto the street so there isnt really any buffer for the sound where I live. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188483#p188483 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Well Reever does love people, but not more than lying down, so usually she waits until someone walks up the stairs to get excited. The only exception to this was when my friends turned up for rp, and shed start getting excited as soon as she heard their voices out side. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188516#p188516 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hello guys,I myself think that a good game, a good program or ap that you would like to have on your pocket requires a lot of work and consiquently a lot of money. Just think about some games who are not for blinds, like: Fifa, Pro evolution, Grand Theft Auto products, Mortal combat and more others are not for free and if you like to get them on your computer, you will be required to spend just like 70 or 100$ to buy them. So if youd like to have good programs and games and other stuff like that, nobody will work as you expect. Think yourself, would you spend a whole year 12 hours a day, or even more, coding and finding new ways to make games more accessible? Can you imagine doing this for many years in a row?I know it sounds harshing in your ears, and I myself, like you, do not like to pay for games and apps, but remember, nobody is going to work voluntarily for decades without getting anything in return, except the pleasure that would offer his products after t he release.Hope you understood me.Wish you a good time! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188249#p188249 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity I think Dark was trying to ask at what point is free stuff justified? In that context the presence of people, VI or otherwise, who try to get free stuff regardless of whether it is genuinely justified is indeed irrelevant since the fact that they ask for free stuff doesnt preclude the possibility that free stuff or discounts may meet a genuine need.As an example I like many have a free bus pass. Because I live in a medium to small sized town the amenities available to me here are quite limited, in fact theres only really banks, supermarkets and by some minor miracle a post office. Should I need new clothes or anything else along those lines I will need to venture out of town, since Im obviously not able to drive and taxis would cost far too much to be practical that means public transport. If I were able to make use of a car I would gladly pay for the road tax, petrol and so on but buses can be quite costly if you use them a lot as well as taking longer, b eing far less comfortable and only having a limited selection of drop off points. Even if I were to live in a city my ability to navigate from my home to the city centre would be more complicated than a sighted person, making a bus often a better option even beyond its benefits to the sighted. In this context I feel a bus pass is warranted.Of course I feel pensioners get often more than they deserve because theyre very good at shouting at the government who also want their votes, but thats another discussion. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188255#p188255 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Cx2, thanks for getting my point that is indeed the distinction I meant and your example of a bus pass is a good one, though interestingly enough I myself rarely use busses sinse I dont want to risk getting on one with no audio announcements and then being stuck, and the silly government have refused to make audio announcements on busses manditory. They are in London, but thats about it. @Steve, the sighted give blind people free stuff? you must have encountered some very different sighted people to the ones Ive run into and the ones most people run across. Even when sighted people offer some form of assistance this is usually not a free gift from eone human to another but an imposition, a sighted person behaving as expected to behave. For example, I once had a guard at a train station who was supposed to be showing me to my next train connection (a necessity sinse id not been in that station before), and he said wait t here when i asked why he said were getting the staff lift for you, passengers dont usually use that lift so it takes a while He did not ask me whether I wanted or needed to use the lift, or even whether I was capable of walking the greater distance to the passenger lift, he just made a dictatorial decision, assuming he knew better than me what my capabilities were and treating me effectively as incompitant.This was not a gift so much as it was an imposition. Much, (though not all), of so called discounts offered by sighted people go in this line, essentially Take this and bog off!There is also the problem as Cx2 said, that there are some services which are offered which are offered which do have a degree of equality behind them, such as the free bus passes , sinse on a basic financial level living with a disability is indeed far more expensive, albeit unfortunately the bennifits offered do not always eq ual the costs of access items. There are also occasions (rare though they might be), where someone is simply being kind and it would be rude or offensive to not accept. For example, a few weeks ago I ordered a pizza from my local Papa Johns, (which has just opened). Id ordered a couple before and had spoken to a very nice Scotish lady. As usual I had to ask (in as polite and friendly a way as possible), what pizzas, side orders etc they did, and what offers they had on, sinse they didnt have any accessible menu. On this occasion i decided just to order a pizza and a side and not bother with the desert. The driver appeared and said Our manager sent you a free desert I am not sure if she did this because of my lack of eyeballs, because I had been polite when asking about what pizzas they did, or just because Id ordered a few times and was a good customer. Either wayr it wouldve been intensively rude had I said ;no I dont deserve free stuff, take it back! as it happened I ate it, and when I ordered another pizza from them last week I thanked her.while it is true there are blind people who are very demanding, who refuse to try things for themselves, and in fact treat others as simply a means to fulfill their needs, this to me is more of an atitudanal difference than a difference in what is actually provided sinse it is one thing to say I cant have a car and use the bus a lot so can I have a free pass to equal out the financial costs of travel and quite another to say I am blind! I deserve free bus travele give it to me now!Lastly, I have begun to think rcently that there is an extra layer to this issue aside from the one of equal access, sinse there are far too many occasions when living with a disability is just not nice. When people ignore, or discriminate, or are out and out unpleasant. It is all very well to say I am bl ind I dont deserve any special considderation however, more often than not you recieve quite the opposite sort of behaviour from people, often in a way the law cannot touch. For example, if I go to any new group of people nobody will speak to me for the first hour, and I have to physically get them over the Hes blind syndrome. Also, Ive had far too many occasions of being given blatant excuses for discrimination, as I got when I applied to opera school. I must admit this is making me rethink the idea of entitlement rather more, sinse frankly if people have to put up with all this crap because their eyeballs dont work, then maybe there should be some sort of bennifit on offer as well. I dont know what this bennifit should be, financial, social, legal status or what, but I do find myself in the position of thinking there probably should be one. Missing access to things is bad enough, but maybe there should also be so me sort of recognition that most blind people arent treated very well by the so called normals as well. @Gellman, I agree with your sentiments here very much, (especially your talk about the corporate), although I wouldnt personally put things in the context of rights sinse I am not personally sure
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity hi,I personally think that it is acceptable to demand entitlements that are garanteed by law blindness is considered to be a severe disability due to the affect it has on ones ability to due thingssure we can do most things that sighted people canbut we do things usually alot sloweralso, the cost of a disability can be very highthis is why governments provide us with discounts on stuffto provide us with equal accessthere are some things that are mandatory for companieslike a 25% discount on all cable, dsl and fiber internet packages as well as phone packagesand a free pass for all city buses and metrosin this situation I would demand these entitlements since they are a right that the government provides us however I would think it very wrong to ask for something that is not a wright under lawfor example, free meals at restaurants if these were given to me I would accept not to be rude b ut I wouldnt demand these things URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188306#p188306 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hmm, the discount on internet and phone packages must be something unique to Turkey, Ive never heard of that one before though it does make a certain amount of sense. Personally Id be happy with our government waiving the VAT on such services for us, that way it doesnt take money away from the company themselves. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188314#p188314 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity [[wow]] Enes I never realized the government was so nice in Turkey as regards providing financial assistance or requiring companies to do so.Here in Britain, bus passes are free in some counties but not others sinse bus travel is administered by the county councel not the government at large and different councels have different ideas. There are disabled rail cards, but given the state of Britains very silly train system (we really do have the worst administered trains in europe), they only have some effect and are honoured on some services due to the many companies and confusing regulations that vary train travel. For the Metro again it depends where you are. Newcastle metro is free, or at least they accept the free bus pass, but in London they certainly arent. It would actually be helpful if the British government did indeed lay down some laws on this rather than leaving the decisions up to local councels by laws. I am also frankly amazed! to hea r that in Turkey companies must sell blind people tv and phone packages for less, again, very much not the case over here, even tv licenses which are paid to the government directly rather than to sky, virgin or one of the other companies have no reduction for blind people, (they used to but that changed in the late nineties).This however illustrates the problem of saying If I am legally entitled to something I will take it sinse manifestly different countries have different laws which may allow for different things and when either campaigning that a law should be changed, or simply asking for something to which a person should be entitled even if the law hasnt caught up to that yet there doo need to be some higher moral principles in place. For example, there is unfortunately no law! that says a game developer must make their game accessible, yet there are some very good ethical arguements as to why they should, equal access etc. this is why I tend to think we need to sort out some reasonable personal ideas of what is equal access and what is unfare entitlement, sinse unfortunately the law isnt adequate to the task, it certainly should be, but that is not currently the case, and frequently it will be up to each individual blind person to argue the toss on her/his own. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188318#p188318 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity [[wow]] Enes I never realized the government was so nice in Turkey as regards providing financial assistance or requiring companies to do so.Here in Britain, bus passes are free in some counties but not others sinse bus travel is administered by the county councel not the government at large and different councels have different ideas. There are disabled rail cards, but given the state of Britains very silly train system (we really do have the worst administered trains in europe), they only have some effect and are honoured on some services due to the many companies and confusing regulations that vary train travel. For the Metro again it depends where you are. Newcastle metro is free, or at least they accept the free bus pass, but in London they certainly arent. It would actually be helpful if the British government did indeed lay down some laws on this rather than leaving the decisions up to local councels by laws. I am also frankly amazed! to hea r that in Turkey companies must sell blind people tv and phone packages for less, again, very much not the case over here, even tv licenses which are paid to the government directly rather than to sky, virgin or one of the other companies have no reduction for blind people, (they used to but that changed in the late nineties).This however illustrates the problem of saying If I am legally entitled to something I will take it sinse manifestly different countries have different laws which may allow for different things and when either campaigning that a law should be changed, or simply asking for something to which a person should be entitled even if the law hasnt caught up to that yet there doo need to be some higher moral principles in place. For example, there is unfortunately no law! that says a game developer must make their game accessible, yet there are some very good ethical arguements as to why they should, equal access etc. this is why I tend to think we need to sort out some reasonable personal ideas of what is equal access and what is unfare entitlement, sinse unfortunately the law isnt adequate to the task, it certainly should be, but that is not currently the case, and frequently it will be up to each individual blind person to argue the toss on her/his own.@Cx2, there did used to be a similar reduction on licenses, essentially because if you couldnt see the tv you werent getting your moneys worth, but this was done away with in the nineties. If such a law were reintroduced, Id prefer a standard percentage reduction like the one in Tirkey, and the companies can go whistle for their money, then again the idea of the government actually standing up to any corporation seems less and less likely. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188318#p188318 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity [[wow]] Enes I never realized the government was so nice in Turkey as regards providing financial assistance or requiring companies to do so.Here in Britain, bus passes are free in some counties but not others sinse bus travel is administered by the county councel not the government at large and different councels have different ideas. There are disabled rail cards, but given the state of Britains very silly train system (we really do have the worst administered trains in europe), they only have some effect and are honoured on some services due to the many companies and confusing regulations that vary train travel. For the Metro again it depends where you are. Newcastle metro is free, or at least they accept the free bus pass, but in London they certainly arent. It would actually be helpful if the British government did indeed lay down some laws on this rather than leaving the decisions up to local councels by laws. I am also frankly amazed! to hea r that in Turkey companies must sell blind people tv and phone packages for less, again, very much not the case over here, even tv licenses which are paid to the government directly rather than to sky, virgin or one of the other companies have no reduction for blind people, (they used to but that changed in the late nineties).This however illustrates the problem of saying If I am legally entitled to something I will take it sinse manifestly different countries have different laws which may allow for different things and when either campaigning that a law should be changed, or simply asking for something to which a person should be entitled even if the law hasnt caught up to that yet there doo need to be some higher moral principles in place. For example, there is unfortunately no law! that says a game developer must make their game accessible, yet there are some very good ethical arguements as to why they should, equal access etc. this is why I tend to think we need to sort out some reasonable personal ideas of what is equal access and what is unfare entitlement, sinse unfortunately the law isnt adequate to the task, it certainly should be, but that is not currently the case, and frequently it will be up to each individual blind person to argue the toss on her/his own.@Cx2, there did used to be a similar reduction on licenses, essentially because if you couldnt see the tv you werent getting your moneys worth, but this was done away with in the nineties and unfortunately I dont see the government standing up to rupert merdock and the other fat cats any time soon. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188318#p188318 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Dark, TV licenses are half price if youre registered blind, try getting in touch with TV licensing. Oh and FYI the TV license funds only go to the BBC, in fact TV licensing isnt even a government department its run by the BBC themselves. Thats why theres been so many problems with the BBC hiring people on commission to be their enforcement officers and doing some rather disreputable things, its worth remembering they have no authority to enter your premises and if they need to in spite of the residents objection must be accompanied by a police officer. Of course theyre all perfectly happy to let people think you have to let them in to look around by law which is blatant nonsense. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188320#p188320 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Are you sure on that Cx2? when I moved into my flat in 2007, I was very much told by them that there were no reductions for having a visual imparement anymore, and certainly my parents dont get one. Of course, when i realized that the tv license actually cost me more than buying Doctor who and Being human on dvd, and tthat I really wasnt watching much else besides the news occasionally, I dropped my license in 2009. Interestingly enough, you can still own a tv (sinse I use a large tv with a snes, gamecube and pc lplugged into it), just so long as you dont actually watch live tv on the thing. I actually heard all about the loop holes sinse my brother has had some quite comical discussions with the licensing people. First when they attempted to claime that a solicitors firm who used a tv and video for watching the interview and security tapes from crime cases had to pay a license, not very clever, and then when they tell my brother th ey can inspect his property and might take him to court if he doesnt make himself available for inspecttion, again distinctly not clever! Luckily sinse I told them flatly I didnt watch tv they havent bothered me in five years, and sinse my parents have a sky plus box, on the rare occasions something does pop up that I do want to watch (doctor who, futurama, game of thrones), my parents can record it for me.Mostly I just buy and watch series on dvd instead, right now Im having a break through watching through ds9 to watch the Avatar the last air bender series (which is awsome). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188342#p188342 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Are you sure on that Cx2? when I moved into my flat in 2007, I was very much told by them that there were no reductions for having a visual imparement anymore, and certainly my parents dont get one, (my mum is also registered blind). Of course, when i realized that the tv license actually cost me more than buying Doctor who and Being human on dvd, and tthat I really wasnt watching much else besides the news occasionally, I dropped my license in 2009. Interestingly enough, you can still own a tv (sinse I use a large tv with a snes, gamecube and pc lplugged into it), just so long as you dont actually watch live tv on the thing. I actually heard all about the loop holes sinse my brother has had some quite comical discussions with the licensing people. First when they attempted to claime that a solicitors firm who used a tv and video for watching the interview and security tapes from crime cases had to pay a license, not very clever, an d then when they tell my brother they can inspect his property and might take him to court if he doesnt make himself available for inspecttion, again distinctly not clever! Luckily sinse I told them flatly I didnt watch tv they havent bothered me in five years, and sinse my parents have a sky plus box, on the rare occasions something does pop up that I do want to watch (doctor who, futurama, game of thrones), my parents can record it for me.Mostly I just buy and watch series on dvd instead, right now Im having a break through watching through ds9 to watch the Avatar the last air bender series (which is awsome). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188342#p188342 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Are you sure on that Cx2? when I moved into my flat in 2007, I was very much told by them that there were no reductions for having a visual imparement anymore, and certainly my parents dont get one, (my mum is also registered blind). Of course, when i realized that the tv license actually cost me more than buying Doctor who and Being human on dvd, and tthat I really wasnt watching much else besides the news occasionally, I dropped my license in 2009. Interestingly enough, you can still own a tv (sinse I use a large tv with a snes, gamecube and pc lplugged into it), just so long as you dont actually watch live tv on the thing. I actually heard all about the loop holes sinse my brother has had some quite comical discussions with the licensing people. First when they attempted to claime that the solicitors firm where my brother worked who used a tv and video for watching the interview and security tapes from crime cases had to pay a license , not very clever, and then when they tell my brother they can inspect his property and might take him to court if he doesnt make himself available for inspecttion, again distinctly not clever! Luckily sinse I told them flatly I didnt watch tv they havent bothered me in five years, and sinse my parents have a sky plus box, on the rare occasions something does pop up that I do want to watch (doctor who, futurama, game of thrones), my parents can record it for me.Mostly I just buy and watch series on dvd instead, right now Im having a break through watching through ds9 to watch the Avatar the last air bender series (which is awsome). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188342#p188342 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Are you sure on that Cx2? When I moved into my flat in 2007, I was very much told by them that there were no reductions for having a visual imparement anymore, and certainly my parents dont get one, (my mum is also registered blind). Of course, when i realized that the tv license actually cost me more than buying Doctor who and Being human on dvd, and tthat I really wasnt watching much else besides the news occasionally, I dropped my license in 2009. Interestingly enough, you can still own a tv (sinse I use a large tv with a snes, gamecube and pc lplugged into it), just so long as you dont actually watch live tv on the thing. I actually heard all about the loop holes sinse my brother has had some quite comical discussions with the licensing people. First when they attempted to claime that the solicitors firm where my brother worked who used a tv and video for watching the interview and security tapes from crime cases had to pay a license , not very clever, and then when they tell my brother they can inspect his property and might take him to court if he doesnt make himself available for inspecttion, again distinctly not clever! Luckily sinse I told them flatly I didnt watch tv they havent bothered me in five years, and sinse my parents have a sky plus box, on the rare occasions something does pop up that I do want to watch (doctor who, futurama, game of thrones), my parents can record it for me.Mostly I just buy and watch series on dvd instead, right now Im having a break through watching through ds9 to watch the Avatar the last air bender series (which is awsome).Actually, there is so little that is any good on tv now, sinse so much of it is celebrity rubbish or reality tv rubbish or similar drek, I actually know lots of sighted people who dont bother with a tv license either! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188342#p188342 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Well Ive had the discount for a while now, maybe youve been getting idiots on the phone? Im not sure whats been going on there.Ive been tempted at points to drop my license but since Ive had Kirk Ive found it far too convenient to just stick the telly on to give some background sound to stop him jumping every time someone slams a car door outside or something if Im upstairs, he always seems to think theyre coming to see him. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188376#p188376 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Dark regarding what you said earlier I was rather alarmed when I found out the UK version of the Sendaro GPS app was branded as the RNIB Navigator app, with a note saying the RNIB receives no money from the proceeds. That strikes me very much as them offering Sendaro a major branding advantage in the UK among those who dont do their research on the subject.As for the BrailleNote which someone mentioned, I think the need for such specialised devices is quickly fading now we have access to mainstream devices such as those running iOS. An iPod Touch with either a Bluetooth braille display or Bluetooth keyboard can do everything a BrailleNote can and more at a much reduced price. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188105#p188105 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi.It can but its still very costly for a braille display for an iphone. I tried the braille pen but didnt like itat all. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188118#p188118 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Steve, Im afraid I really dont see the fact that sighted people want free stuff as relevant. Most people (especially in our capitalist society), want stuff for free as a given and would prefer to pay less than more. There are many groups who justify their acqusition of free stuff, the eldily, people of all stripes of disability from tetraplegia to mental illness, army veterans, children of the rich or politically powerful etc. The question at hand is to what extent if any should being blind justify getting something for free, particularly access technology, and whether some blind people have an over baring attitude of entitlement. What other groups in society do doesnt really make a difference to the arguement. @Brad, I find that sort of behaviour worryingly common, which is as I said why I largely avoid blindness organizations. Just to play devils advocate here, there are circumstances where it seems that accepting, or even requesting free stuff is reasonable.At one disability conference I attended, a disability advocate asked my opinion on a quite interesting story. This was of a man who was tetraplegic and had no movement in his legs. He was also a very skilled violinist. The health service were going to spend a hundred thousand pounds on an operation involving some very advanced technology to give him the ability to walk. He stated however if your going to give me a hundred thousand pounds then by me a stradavarious violin his reasoning being that he valued having the strad far more than he valued being able to walk. The professor in question asked my opinion on this story. My thought, was that as the government in the form of the health service were the ones providing this, it was not up to the government to buy people stradavariouseses my precious! . That t he government did bare a responsability to provide equality to all its citizens, and so provide the technology to give the man a similar ability to walk as everyone else, but that sinse not everyone owns a stradavarious, that wasnt the governments business.Indeed based on this story if something comes up where I could screw someone out of something due to my disability, but dont believe I am entitled to it, Ive taken to refering to it as a stradavarious for example when i was given my equipment grant for university, I needed a digital recorder to have articles and chapters of books read, however sinse I wanted a more fancy sterrio digital recorder to do podcasts, what effectively i did was have the grant provide the price of a mono olympus recorder, then paid the difference myself to get my rowland with its sterrio mikes.As I said in the first post, in a perfect world the government would provide all access technology on this basis. Sinse we dont live in that perfect world the technology needs to be developed and provided by companies who require paying, however this is I believe an area where a compromise is possible.One example in the Uk at least is free bus travel, sinse the plane fact is it costs a hell of a lot more and is far more inconvenient to use public transport if you dont own a car, which is in fact why a lot of county counsels offer free bus passes (shame about the audio announcements but there you go). My brother has on several occasions had arguements with bus drivers about the fact that yes, his pass does allow him free bus travel in the early mornings, which seems fare enough given he has a long journey each day by bus. I will also say that this principle of equalized access shouldnt be confused with the idea of a disabled person being compitant and not inconveniencing those around them with unreasonable demands, like Brads example of th e extreperous pizza ordering fellow. One llast point I have not yet considdered myself fully however, is whether in addition to this idea of compromising on equal access, there is some degree of mileage in having some sort of compensation for the discriminatory and generally unpleasant attitudes of others, sinse the plane fact is being blind is a pain in the arse and if you have a disability, however equal your technology, access and amounts of effort in doing things is, other people will not treat you this way or considder you reasonably. What form this sort of compensation should take I dont know, its dam hard to put a monetary value on social injustice, indeed it seems that the two things are categorically different, but it does seem with all of the crap that any blind person who actually tries to get on in the world and live with the attitudes of the sighted majority rather than just disappearing into a little blind hole, should have some sort of recomp ense, though what sort of form this should take I dont know exactly. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188123#p188123 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity While I see where Bryant and others are going Id like to point out that the entitlement attitude isnt something exclusive to blind people or even people with disabilities. I can safely say that human beings tend to be fairly selfish by nature and the entitlement attitude is one shared by people regardless of race, gender, or disability. There is always someone who wants something for nothing, or expects preferential treatment just because they think they have a right to it. Their reasons may very, but the fact of the matter is it is a common enough behavior that is by no means exclusive to the blind community.When I was in high school my mom use to work at a variety of part time jobs such as fast food restaurants, and the Walmart one hour photo department. If you really want to know how people are just go to work for a fast food restaurant or a major department store like Walmart and youll find out that there are plenty of people with a huge entitlement at titude. My mom use to come home night after night and tell me stories about how this or that person was rude to her, demanded they get this or that, and acted like the world owed them something.For example, when my mom worked at the one hour photo department people would come in the day after Christmas and ask how long it would take for their film to be developed. My mom would tell them it would take one hour as per the sign hanging next to the counter. There would usually be a couple of people who would get bossy and demand that they get their film back in 20 minutes or they were walking out and taking there business elsewhere or that they felt they should have a discount since they would have to wait the full hour for their film to be developed.Obviously, such people didnt stop to consider the fact that the day after Christmas is the busiest day of the year for a photo department. Any major family holiday be it Easter, Mothers Day, Fathers Day , etc are bound to be very busy, but Christmas especially means everyone will have to work harder to keep up with the steady flow of people dropping of their film to be developed. They also didnt consider the fact in order to get their film done in the specified amount of time everyone would have to drop everyone elses film and do their film. Simply put those people are narcissists and think they deserve some special treatment over and above what the photo department would grant to any other customer.When my mom worked at various fast food restaurants she experienced pretty much the same sort of entitlement attitude from some customers. There would be grouchy old senior citizens who would demand their senior citizen discount, and even when they got it they would complain it wasnt enough off their order. There would be customers who were in a hurry and would wine and complain if someone else got their food before they did, even though in that kind of bu siness its on a first come first served basis unless they have to make something special which takes more time. I could probably give a long list of examples of ways people tried to boss my mom around or demand discounts for food they didnt really deserve all because the customer was selfish and thought he or she was something special.As for access technology that is a somewhat complex subject. I dont think a lot of blind users have any real idea how much it costs to run a company that develops accessible software and hardware. Its easy to wine and complain about the price of what those products costs, but equally I dont think they consider how much that company has to pay its employees to make those products. Its a case of the uninformed asking for lower costs for access technology regardless of who gets shorted in the long run to make that happen.On one hand we cant blame them for wanting the cost of their accessibility aids to cost less. Howe ver, on the other we can blame them for being uninformed about what it really costs to produce this or that piece of software they claim is too expensive. Most of them dont realize that the average programmer makes about $60,000 or more a year and therefore the company has to sell several units of their software just to pay that one employee let alone more programmers, tech support staff, secretaries, office management, and so on. Put simply most of those doing the complaining have no idea what it costs to run a company of any size, and only can see the cost they themselves are having to pay for that access technology, and want it to be less regardless of how much it takes to keep that company going. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188129#p188129 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity I appreciate the point about running a company, however equally there is another side to it, sinse I am not always convinced how much prophet is being made by these companies relative to their costs, especially given the number of government contracts people like freedom scientific have and the fact that other accessible software doesnt cost the same price.Take blind square as an example. I paid £16 for it, which is relatively expensive for an Iphone ap but peanuts in comparison to say the thousand or so Id need to pay for a program like Jaws. Now undoubtedly blindsquare is a much simpler program and took less development time, however if the arguement about paying a developers yearly salary is absolutely true, then logically all accessible software products which were developed by the same number of programmers should cost roughly the same. After all the projected sales for blind square are likely much the same as those for Jaws, indeed if anything possibly less sinse Blindsquare is far less likely to be bought by governmental agencies and also will only be bought by Vi Iphone users.Even before the ap store craze, contrast the price of something like Jaws with Sueprnova which has always been half as expensive, indeed my initial license was £600 where as for jaws it wouldve been £1100. This is undoubtedly a lot of money, but the fact that there is fluctuation in the prices of similar peaces of software does rather imply that there is a degree of greed going on here. which is really the central issue and one of the problems with access tech, sinse we cant be exactly sure what the sales figures for someone like Freedom scientific or dolphin are and how much they are actually making relative to development costs.In any capitalist system, theoretically competition is a limiting factor on price. If I am a farmer and am selling my carrots for two pounds a bunch but the farmer next door selling his carrots for one pound a bunch, well obviously people are going to go to him and not me so I will need to alter my prices. In access tech however, there are very few producers of the products, which frequently means people can charge what the hell they like sinse there isnt the competition to drive the price down correctly and people often dont have the choice to go elsewhere. To use my carrot example, it is as if I owned all the land and so if people wanted carrots they had to buy them at two quid a bunch from me or nothing, which is pretty much the way most of the business world is tending these days, though that is another arguement, (oopse, my marxism is showing), . URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188135#p188135 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi.It can but its still very costly for a braille display for an iphone. I tried the braille pen but didnt like it at all. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188118#p188118 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
2014-09-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity at brad in post 34, I would have to say that behavior is completely not acceptible. That, is what gives the blindness community its reputation.Does he go to one of those blind schools? Blind schools seem to be more of a problem than a useful learning setting for the blind. Yeah, sure they teach you how to read braille, use jaws, live on your own, but they have a certain way of doing everything, that you must follow, and plus youre being isolated from the real world. @dark, Id have to disagree with your argument. If what you say is true, then theres really no point to this, argument. If sighted people and other types of disabled people wanting stuff for free is not rellavent, then what makes whether or not blind people want stuff for free or have entitlement aditudes rellavent? If you still disagree with this, please clarify your point. Please--I want to hear it. I wan t to know if theres something Im not understanding here.@twoard,My point exactly, but worded differently. Granted, my mom never went through what your mom did, but the meaning of your post was what I wanted to say.Thumbs up! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188148#p188148 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity My point steve, is that Tom is correct, some people will always try to get stuff for free, that is a given. The question under discussion is whether firstly this attitude is (as Briant suggested in his first post), more prevailent in the blind community, and secondly, whether there is or is not any justification to that attitude. Look at this another way. Imagine that you own a shop and someone like the eldily person in Toms example asks you for a discount. Now, firstly, do you believe that eldily people are entitled to discountts? and secondly, if an eldily person asks you for a discount, how do you perceive them and old people in general? are they seen as worthy of respect, or do you view them as constantly winjing and wanting stuff for free?This is the issue at hand. Is it true that blind people more than other groups in society have a prevailent attitude of wanting free stuff, and secondly, is there any justification to this attitu de. It doesnt matter particularly what other people do or do not do sinse manifestly a sighted person is not blind, and thus would not be claiming something for free on the same grounds that a blind person would be doing so, and it is those grounds that are under discussion.I could not walk into my local shop and say please give me an over 65 discount because I am over 65 sinse I am manifestly not. In the same light, none of the sighted people from Toms example could say were entitled to free stuff because were blind sinse they arent blind. I must admit I do suspect there is something of a bias in the entitlement attitude among blind people, because of the specialist schools you mention and also the plane and simple fact that yeah, life is a lot harder without eyeballs, and it is a natural human response that if you have less than everyone else you want the same, or at least some sort of compensation. To me, the interesting exercise here is analysing the different possible responses and attitudes, teasing out the differences between the bad attitude, the desire for preferential treatment and weaseling as much as possible because you lack working eyeballs, and the good attitude the desire for equal access and how best to achieve it in a compitant manner. Deciding where these attitudes come from, what the principle differences between them are, and what our responses should be in terms of buying technology and life is exactly the sort of thing that blind people should be doing, throughout life as well as theoreticaly, indeed it is just these sorts of questions that Ive spent most of my creative work in ethics thinking about. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188153#p188153 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity My point steve, is that Tom is correct, some people will always try to get stuff for free, that is a given. The question under discussion is whether firstly this attitude is (as Briant suggested in his first post), more prevailent in the blind community, and secondly, whether there is or is not any justification to that attitude. Look at this another way. Imagine that you own a shop and someone like the eldily person in Toms example asks you for a discount. Now, firstly, do you believe that eldily people are entitled to discountts? and secondly, if an eldily person asks you for a discount, how do you perceive them and old people in general? are they seen as worthy of respect, or do you view them as constantly winjing and wanting stuff for free?This is the issue at hand. Is it true that blind people more than other groups in society have a prevailent attitude of wanting free stuff, and secondly, is there any justification to this attitu de. It doesnt matter particularly what other people do or do not do sinse manifestly a sighted person is not blind, and thus would not be claiming something for free on the same grounds that a blind person would be doing so, and it is those grounds that are under discussion.I could not walk into my local shop and say please give me an over 65 discount because I am over 65 sinse I am manifestly not. In the same light, none of the sighted people from Toms example could say were entitled to free stuff because were blind sinse they arent blind. I must admit I do suspect there is something of a bias in the entitlement attitude among blind people, because of the specialist schools you mention and also the plane and simple fact that yeah, life is a lot harder without eyeballs, and it is a natural human response that if you have less than everyone else you want the same, or at least some sort of compensation. To me, the interesting exercise here is analysing the different possible responses and attitudes, teasing out the differences between the bad attitude, the desire for preferential treatment and weaseling as much as possible because you lack working eyeballs, and the good attitude the desire for equal access and how best to achieve it in a compitant manner. Deciding where these attitudes come from, what the principle differences between them are, and what our responses should be in terms of buying technology and life generally is exactly the sort of thing that blind people should be doing, throughout life as well as theoreticaly, indeed it is just these sorts of questions that Ive spent most of my creative work in ethics thinking about. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188153#p188153 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity just think, you can get a high powered scanner for around that same price. If you dont like the app, then dont buy it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188185#p188185 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
2014-09-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi there dark. Let me answer your questions here. If I ran into a shop, and an elderly person came in and said, Can I have a discount on this item? Im old. I would ggive them a harsh no, why should you? Im young and dont get discounts. and make them charge the same price everyone else would.If another elderly person walked in 5 minutes later, Id treat them as what they are to me, a stranger. I wouldnt give the elderly the label of entitling. Now say there were 100 elderlies who came into my shop in, say, a week, demanding discounts, I might rethink my judgement of them. I can see how people will give blind people that same label, Brad gave me a perfect reason to agree with some of them in post 34. If I were that pizza man, I wouldnt quite no what to think. Id see Brads kindness, but then Id see the complete rudeness and self-entitled pitty aditude of his friend. I wouldnt give a judgement to the blind community, though Id be a bit weary of them. If most, or perhaps all, of the blind folks I met were this way, then I would avoid anyone with a cane and/or unfocused eyes. Thats just me though. Im not that judgemental, I try to give people second chances.To answer the question of whether the entitlement aditude is more prevalent among the blind, Id have to say no! Ive seen plenty of blind folks who sharply turned down such offers. The reason I think a lot of thes blind people feel so entitled, is that sighted people treat them differently. Like that poster who said he could feel out a form and get something for free, now thats a primary example. Plus you gotta think of the parents and/or teachers of some of these blind people. Ive also experienced times where people wanted to park in handycap or get in the front of amusement park lines becaus e I, the blind person in town, was with them. So I believe the sighted people are basically milking and feeding the entitlement mentality of the blind, by pretty much spoiling them wrotten or telling them how they should live their lives. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188186#p188186 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi Steve. My questions about the eldily were to illustrate the limits of the discussion rather than actually aaasking an opinion. While I do believe to an extent you are correct about specialist institutions, there is a little more to the issue than just blind people should never get any considderation at all, end of story! Back when dark room was first discovered, most of the game was absolutely fine with vo. you could do all the resource management stuff, go into the forest and build things, recruit your population etc. The map however was completely inaccessible. You could push the arrows and wander about at random, but you had no idea where anything actually was making it impossible to plan any journeys or progress in the game. Now as it happened the developer was contacted about this and added some very awsome access fixes. Suppose however he had responded with well sighted people have no problem playing my game, so why should I c hange anything for blind people, sinse blind people dont deserve any special considderation This is the central problem. If blindness had no affect on anyones life and you could do everything exactly the same way sighted people could, then being blind wouldnt be an issue at all. Obviously there is a big difference between asking for equal access to something and demanding special privilidges, but it is spelling out what this difference is, and how to say what is or is not reasonable behaviour that is the question that needs to be considdered, sinse like most important things in life there just isnt an easy black and white answer here. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188191#p188191 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity If your physical condition makes it difficult to use software or hardware which by design has been designed with deliberate difference toward people with special needs you absolutely ought to enjoy a human right to some kind of compensation.If companies wont by voluntary choice make the engineering decisions necessary for disabled persons, the law should provide legal recourse including punitive fines or jail time.Its not a case of unjustified entitlement but a matter of human rights.The thread starter is difficult to take seriously when considering that he completely skips over the human rights issue. and uses stupid gangsta rap language as his signature.Do I think that I generally have a human right to free stuff?Absolutely not.But I think that I have a right to equal accessibility to the same opportunities as sighted persons of equal intelligence, and that I should not have to pay an extra price for the mere privilege of acc essibility.Accessibility is a human right, and every blind deriding this attitude as unjust entitlement is no better than the Jews collaborating with the nazis. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188199#p188199 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity If your physical condition makes it difficult to use software or hardware which by design has been designed with deliberate difference toward people with special needs you absolutely ought to enjoy a human right to some kind of compensation.If companies wont by voluntary choice make the engineering decisions necessary for disabled persons, the law should provide legal recourse including punitive fines or jail time.Its not a case of unjustified entitlement but a matter of human rights.The thread starter is difficult to take seriously when considering that he completely neglects the human rights issue. Do I think that I generally have a human right to free stuff?Absolutely not.But I think that I have a right to equal accessibility to the same opportunities as sighted persons of equal intelligence, and that I should not have to pay an extra price for the mere privilege of accessibility.Accessibility is a human right, and ev ery blind deriding this attitude as unjust entitlement is no better than Jews collaborating with the nazis.Accessibility only comes with a cost, because the government, corporations and other actors are conditioned to view the needs of disabled as as an afterthought rather than a core requirement the law might impose on providing goods and services. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188199#p188199 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
2014-09-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Dark,Thats not what I meant. I know good and well blind people should get some concideration, they do have some special needs of course. But its just that sighted people try and give us more than we deserve, and this makes some of us think were entitled to more, because were kind of brain washed to believe so.Granted I was raised in a good home, but look at some of those blind who werent are arent being raised well? Their only guidence is that from the sighted world, so based on the special rights some sighted people give them, and the way theyre regarded, make the horrible aditude of some of the blind population a little bit justifyable. Now dont get the knotion that Im blaiming the sighted for all the wrong doings of the blind, that is entirely not true. As a person, a blind individual has morrels, just as a sighted person would. So as for my overall opinion here, I believe th at, if this is true, part of the reason entitlement aditudes are more prevalent among the disabled is because the world doesnt know what to do with them 90% of the time, so theyre spoiled wrotten, while at the same time not socialised correctly. As for whether or not this is okay, why of course not! I believe that a blind person, especially one who is an adult, can and should think for theirselves, and observe those around them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188213#p188213 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity severestormsteve1 worte:But its just that sighted people try and give us more than we deserve, and this makes some of us think were entitled to more, because were kind of brain washed to believeso.And what do we deserve?According to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, its clear that we deserve societal equality and not merely being treated like well behaving house pets.Equality before society and the law is and should not be negotiable.I understand that its a very American thing to assume that those with the weakest physical abilities ought to be thankful, beg for favors, and sleep under bridges, but here in Europe we actually want the government to enforce equal opportunities. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188218#p188218 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity severestormsteve1 worte:But its just that sighted people try and give us more than we deserve, and this makes some of us think were entitled to more, because were kind of brain washed to believeso.And what do we deserve?According to the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, its clear that we deserve societal equality and not merely being treated like well behaving house pets.Equality before society and the law is and should not be negotiable.I understand that its a very American thing to assume that those with the weakest physical abilities ought to be thankful, beg for favors, and sleep under bridges, but here in Europe we actually want the government to enforce equal opportunities. And, let me just say Ive heard arguments similar to yours. Fact of the matter is, its not just, blind, people who think theyre entitled to everything.Think of some of those folks who just sit at home, collecting food stamps and government money, just for the heck of it! You know what? All, the people,who Ive heard, of doing that, were, sighted!Sure in the world of mad right-wing mythology, the welfare queen is herself to blame for being poor rather than working her ass off in McDonalds.We should all be grateful for being offered the opportunity to eat at the table of the big corporations and not whine about lack of opportunities. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188218#p188218 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
2014-09-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Yes.And what do we deserve, as you said equality. I mean there are some sighted people who try and get us to accept free stuff, discounts, easier work, etc etc. Thats what I mean. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188228#p188228 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi.@Chriss Im in complete agreement with you on your post about flaws. Why do you think I use and try to get as many people as I can to use, NVDA? Because I know its better, faster less buggy and just works. Where as Flaws well has many problems.As for the KNFB Im going to be bying it because I feel that it would be a great app to invest money in. But I can see why people would want a demo. Id want a demo too but I dont think we are going to get one.I took a look at a device today in the RNIB and it was rubbish in my opinion. It was a portable scanning device that has a dazy player. wait what? Why does mostly blind devices like that portable scanner have to come with some kind of mp3 or dazy player? The voice for the device was horrible, although I will say this, the guy who was showing me the device didnt seem to get the fact that if you scan a page with pictures on it the OCR engine is going to get confused. But still Id not buy it. They wanted to pay £500 so thats about $750 I think. For me Ill be paying for the KNFB reader and if it does not work as they said it would, Ill be emailing them and Ill be getting my money back. And if I cant? will I be annoyed for a little while? yes, but will I get really angry? no. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=187988#p187988 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Posts 7 and 12... [[wow]]. So much hate... its actually kind of amusing. that is all.To the rest, I dont think some of the people who have thi entitlement mentality realize that the fact that these products cost more money to make than typical products.. because there are specialized parts and whatnot that need to be manufactured. Along with that, the size of the market that they sell these products to is tiny compared to the amount they pay to get these products made in the first place. Do I think the prices are a bit inflated? Yes... but at the same time, I sort of understand why. You cant expect to sell a program like JAWS for 50 bucks and keep a business going that makes what are esentially pda computers, magnifiers, and hardware products. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=187997#p187997 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity I have in fact read all posts in this topic and I can understand why you might have taken Bryans use of the phrase So called blind community in post two as to be more generalized than it was probably intended to be steve. Above all I would suggest people back off slightly. When debating any issue in ethics it is far too easy to characature the position of someone with whom you disagree and assume they mean things which they do not. If you are uncertain what they mean ask for clarrification do not assume you know as much.To get back to the discussion at hand, Myself, one issue I have noted and the principle reason I dont tend to have much to do with many blind people or organizations in Britain is that there is a very strict adherence to a set of prescribed set of rules and ways of doing things. For example it is expected! that a person will use Jaws rather than Nvda, that a person will always do computer science at university, that a per son will only talk to those blind people he/she knows and will always use certain peaces of technology without investigating alternatives. I know precisely where This mentality comes from, sinse for a lot of special schools and blindd organizations there is a very strict adherence to a set of rules, that if you dont for eample use a liquid level indicator you are a bad person. To take one example I remember on one occasion speaking to someone from my old special school who had a particular interest in racing games and was a player of top speed, I asked if hed tried the various other games out there such as Rail racer, he responded no not because he thought hed dislike them, but because my friend just told me about top speed He just didnt have the motivation to go and look for alternatives and simply accepted what he was given. Indeed as an interesting fact, most people Ive noted who have this sort of attitude do not! register on this forum precisely because being here requires a degree of self determination.The point of all this is that to a large extent I believe certain access companies have gotten rich on this attitude. if a person goes to specialist school and is forced to believe that they must! have some specialist bit of technology and discouraged from any sort of looking for alternatives, then in effect you have a captive consumer. I am not sure to what extent companies have actively promoted this attitude, (some Ive seen definitely have), but it certainly doesnt help. I will finally end by clarifying that this cleaque mentality is by no means universal even in this country, although it does seem worryingly common and is the principle reason i tend not to interact with blind people outside the field of audio games sinse I tend to find as I am very much not! part of that cleaque I end up feeling and being treated as far more of an outsider than I would a mong a similar group of sighted people, which is depressing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=187998#p187998 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Brad, I suspect the daisy player was added because it took virtually no effort to do so. Any system capable of running OCR and generating TTS would have no issues at all playing back audio content and in some cases people may wish to use such a system to play back daisy books as well as scanning physical ones, it essentially makes the device a single piece of equipment that solves all the book accessibility needs of for example a college or university library. For those kinds of situations where the people buying the equipment have little knowledge of assistive tech a single device solution is often very attractive, they assume having a single device or piece of software will make it simpler as well as being less mental effort for them to work out how to implement accessibility. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188012#p188012 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity to begin with, I do agree that this so called entitlement atitude does prevail among blind, at least in my place. they want free rides in public transport, reservation in jobs, and all the rest of it, just because theyre blind. not just that, somere not even ready to produce the required proof(Ive seen blind people arguing with bus conductors because they asked them to show theirblind pass)but, equal opportunities? Ive to agree with the popular sentiment. EG:I dont know if it had been mensioned before(I havent read the whole discussion yet) you have these TVs that all can see plainly. but if youre blind and need a lil audio feedback, youve to pay at least thrice the normal price.(computers and screenreaders are a similar case) how should one go about tolerating this? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188028#p188028 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity In an ideal world yes wed get all this for free to level the playing field, in reality someone has to pay for them. Now Ill be the first to say the governments of the world have many places they could stop wasting money on pet projects but thats a perpetual problem that even the mainstream community hasnt been able to persuade them on so the only way governments will be paying for such things is with taxation. Sure spreading the cost around doesnt add much to tax but its less than ideal.The next possible route is businesses, by their very nature they exist to make money and many though Ill stress not all are willing to leverage any advantage they can get their greasy mits on in order to both maximise profits and sales volumes. If that means preying on the ignorance of their customers thats fine by them, and so long at least enough sales at the incredibly high prices continue theyve little incentive to take the risk of re ducing prices in the hopes of greater sales volumes.This is real life and sadly there arent any easy answers, we inevitably need to choose between several suboptimal solutions. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188030#p188030 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi Guys.Hmm interesting discussion. I got to thinking about jaws and windoweyes and really what does it cost companies to make something like that? Other than creating there spacific voices what does it cost besides paying a team of coders to put a screen-reader together. Obviously making accessible programs is a small market but I believe that doesnt mean they have to stop putting effort in their projects.@Dark, I know what you mean about sighted teachers and people like that think you should do everything one way. I believe when people go to college to learn how to teach blind or low-vision students that they are taught one way of teaching things and that is all. To give you an example I go to college where they have a disabled student services office. Ive noticed that most of the people who work in that office have no idea what there doing. Like once I mentioned nvda to a woman who transcribes braille at the college and she had no idea what I was t alking about. She had mentioned to me that the computer lab just got the latest update of jaws and I said, Why dont you get nvda since that will save the college a whole lot of money and she had absolutely no idea about nvda. Then there was another time I mentioned how accessible the mac was and she dismissed that right away telling me that apple claims that the mac and iOs devices are accessible but they really arent which is not true at all. I wish sighted people who are supposed to help the blind would have a more open mind.Ill never forget when I first started college and I was learning the ways to my classes. I asked for a guide and they told me they didnt do that then I asked if they had some sort of transportation like a tram but they said no that they had one but it was only for disabled veterans. Then I got so frustrated I asked them how do you expect me to be independent if you dont give me at least a little bit of help. And they told me, Well this campus was certified as being accessible. I was so frustrated I finally told them that I was sure that the campus had been certified accessible by a sighted person which Im still sure is true.I guess you just learn eventually that you are entitled to some things and not others. I think its probably better if people learn this lesson at a young age so they arent let down when they dont get the things that they need or want. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188034#p188034 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @Cx2,I do see a way out of this in the future sinse manifestly the government do not want to be paying out large somes of money on disability equipment either, but it will as Guitarman said take a change in expertees to recognize this fact. I am actually going to steel this thought for the redraught of my thesis sinse one of the practical measures I do suggest to combat existing social prejudice against those categorized as disabled is the setting up of essentially a disability advocacy commission who have both skills in dealing with living with disabilities, and a certain amount of governmental power to exact compromises, rather like the business rights group acas. This is actually another job such a commission could undertake, sinse in having skills in dealing with disability (probably being made up of disabled people), they could additionally advise on these sorts of measures, just as for example when the chap asked on the forum the other day for games for his blind frien d myself, Slj, and a good few other people with knolidge on the field of gaming sans eyeballs were able to inform him what was around. @Guitarman, I find that all too believable. my university disability office actually told me disabled people are not the best judges of what they can and cant do so generally what Ive done is largely circumvent them, making whatever arrangements I needed making myself, doing the mobility with my mum when I first got hear, working out equipment needs with the very nice education officer who streight out asked me what I needed (he was fantastic and saw my brother and I right through school). Part of the problem, as in fact Ive stated in my thesis is that disabled people are judged by a large percentage of the none disabled as incompitant. this includes judgements of their own compitancy. If I say I am going to do x this translates in the mind of a sighted person as the silly blind man thinks he can do x but I know he cant This is why effectively I think there needs to be some sort of more strict governmental control over this, sinse the ultimate truth is people dont! know about disability and frequently dont trust disabled people to know about it either, but go on their own half baked notions. To relate this back to access companies, one thing I have noticed in the Uk is the Rnib has a rather worrying relationship with certain companies, indeed it seems like the Rnib actually drumb up business for them, which is down right wrong. For example last month I was at the local hospital for my anual eyeball checkup. Behind me there was a newly blind fellow talking to his wife about talking watches. He was describing one hed found in a catelogue (or at least been recommended from the catelogue), while his wife was stating that the Rnib only sell those ones As it happened, I was actually wearing the watch that the c hap was describing. I forget the exact make and model number but it is a nice one,being stainless steel (thus fairly unbreakable), with small unobtrusive buttons, a none annoying voice and , and kept uptodate via satelite link, indeed I wore the same model to egypt in 2010 and it kept up with perfect time). Much better than the usual black plastic and rubber affairs imho. I let the chap and his mrs have a look at it, told them where Id got one, and indeed answered several basic questions they had, in fact they were quite relieved to meet someone registered blind who lived alone, wandered around the country and was doing a doctorate sinse the poor chap had been quite an independent bloak before losing his vision and hadnt really been encouraged by the Rnib to go out and try things. My point however is this is clearly a case where the Rnib were actively supporting only those companies they deem appropriate, much as they do with Azabat, which is a direc tly bad situation sinse it creates a very captive group of consumers and discourages people from going and finding out for themselves. Again as I said, this is where having some expertees in disability would be a very helpful thing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188039#p188039 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Guitarman, it costs approximately 15 (one hundred and fifty thousand dollars) per year for each programmer assigned to a project like JAWS or windows eyes. It costs less for support staff - probably only between 40 and 80k, but its still pretty significant.Even if it only takes one engineer and one support guy to maintain the product (which is probably a serious underestimate), thats still around $200k per year minimum, and at 500 dollars per copy theyll have to sell 4k copies per year just to cover personnel. In reality, costs are probably a lot higher than that, and sales are probably declining every year due to things like NVDA. I wouldnt expect JAWS to be a significant player in a few years. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188057#p188057 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Hi guys.I want to bring up some of mine points1. Those who say only the blind community wants free stuff, might not have been in a lot of sighted communities if so. Because all People in general prefer free stuff, it be a service or software or gear. They want to pay less if they can, They want to examine an item before buying it or even test it, and they want to see a demo of any application before investing in it.2. I agree that some people who are blind are selfish sometimes and Think that because they cannot see, all the world *has to* respect them and their choices.I also want to tell you that this case is not only with people who are blind, Just replace the word Blind with any disability, disadvantage, or downside you like. Selfishness is just a feature that some souls have it. It doesnt have to do anything with blindness specifically.3. No matter how you try to ignore JAWS or Window Eyes or supernova, Misspe ll their company names or make fun of them, I would like to inform you that more than 90% of windows-based, production-use computers are running these ScreenReaders as we speak right now.These comercial products will work without any errors, They are stable, they have dedicated support, and They are flexable as long as the company behind it support the customer and their requirements.Yes. Big companies will provide as much as money as required to have a stable platform with straight forward support, and individuals who can aford the heavy prices will also use these comercial nonfree Screen Readers.The matter of the skyrocketed price, and the lack of support and creativity of These companies is a different thing how ever.I deeply wish that windows catch up OS X in terms of the self-Screen Reader improvement, And we see all the works, be a dayly use of a computer to a heavily production use of it being done without any need of addetional Scree n Reader application, just a powerful built in Screen Reader, officially supported by Microsoft.There is also the amazing free NVDA, but lets not forget that its developers are providing it for free, and they also have lives to attend. I extremely admire their work for the creation of such an amazing Screen Reader.4. I totally hate the mean companies who try to sell their products for a high price, to limited individuals.In our case, those who say that developing and creating products for blind and visually impaired takes more energy and cost, I proudly disagree with you and without a doubt, I will say that its a lie.Creating and maintaining a specialized product is costly I agree with you, But these companies are big lyers who are ranking blind users as Very special which is not true. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188060#p188060 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Nobodys saying only theblind community wants free stuff. Ive seen plenty of examples of sighted folks demanding it. But it is a very common demand for a lot of the blind people Ive met. The amusing ones are the ones wholl refuse to engage in activities unless they can get discounts based on their blindness, yet dont really admit that theyre blind. Ive known quite a lot of people like that. Theyre quite common in the area where I live, as are some of the more condesceding people I spoke of in one of m earlier post. but then again its somehting of a hotbed for the more raddical NFB-minded folks, and their extremist views. I tend to try not to demand things when I go out, even in situations where I might possibly be justified, simply because I dont want to perpetuate the bad reputation we have in some parts of the sighted world. A sighted person meets one rude, demanding blind person and theyre likely to as sume were all like that and treat any future blind people they meet differently. I used to know and hang out with such a person whose answer to every perceived slight was to threaten to take the so-called offender to court and she expected me to be the same way. When the Twin Falls public library refused, understandably in my opinion, to allow her to put braille labels on the packaging of all the audiobooks, she called me up trying to get my support for her ridiculous plan to take the library to court for discrimination, never mind that if you ask nicely for help finding a specific book the library staff are more than happy to help you. I pointed that out as well as the fact that not only blind people listen to audiobooks and so there would be absolutely no guarantee that that braille label would still be there the next time a sighted listen checked the book back in. So Marie would have had to replace labels and would inevitably have gotten bent out of shape about that. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188067#p188067 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity All that is unfortunately true Bryan, Ive mentioned before the annoying girls at the aims music school (Im glad I never met them). What I find worrying is such behaviour is sometimes condoned in quite high levels of organizations and thought. I read a serious book on disability for example where a sociologist posed as being blind (she had a blind husband), in order to get the experience and write about it. In this book she details a scenario where she was attempting to buy batteries from a shop, but instead of going to the counter where everyone else was kewing and asking the shop assistant politely when she got to her place in the kew, she went to a counter at the back of the shop that was not in use, and demanded can someone fetch me some batteriess repeatedly until one of the assistants had to leave the crowded counter and come to the back of the shop, then run back to deal with the next customer.She used this to cryticize the sighted shop assistants but to my mind she was in the wrong, for not going to the usual place where the kew was, and asking politely in recognition that she was asking the assistant to do something other than their usual duties, especially considdering that according to her the shop was very crowded and the assistants were extremely busy. It worries me that this is the sort of thing that some so called disability advocates are quite literally demanding. One thing I will say however is that sinse having a guide dog I have found myself asking for things more often on her behalf. For example, when I had a stick if I bought a coffee in a cafe Id just find myself a seat holding the coffee in my other hand. I dont however want to risk injuring my dog with hot coffee, so I will ask if someone can carry it to the table for me. I have even been known when on a train to ask the guard to get me a coffee from the buffet sinse I dont want to risk wandering u p a crowded train carrying hot liquidOf course I do all this as politely as possible, however I will say having someone else to think about does change the perspective slightly sinse i find where I am not generally happy asking for things for myself, if Im asking on Reevers behalf that is another matter, particularly sinse shes such a gentle creature shed never stick up for herself even if say someone threatened stepping on her. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188075#p188075 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
2014-09-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity @BrianP,I actually have to agree with a lot of that post. I have indeed come across those blind extremists who call it descrimonating when something doesnt happen their way, like the library system. Thats what apps such as tap tap see are for if you want to independently find lables. Else, ask a library staff to help you. Also, now that Ive calmed down, I can think of more examples of how sighted people are also all about getting free or cheap stuff. Ive actually heard of sighted people say stuff like I wont shop at that store because their prices are too high. Also, people are looking for the cheapest gass, groceries, electronics etc etc. And dont you notice how, when stores are putting there stuff on sail (making it, cheaper,) for a limited time, how the stores flood with sighted people? I mean even on Black Friday, people get killed and trampled going through store s, because the sighted folks are too busy fighting over the cheap stuff.And believe it or not, some self-entitled sighted person called 911 because she clamed that her water bill was too high, and that the city wouldnt do anything about it. Now, Im not condemning sighted folks, nor am I launching an attack, contredictory or other, on anyone here on this forum. These are just a lot of the examples I see of sighted people who think there above all and should get free stuff. However, post 28, you also proove a point. Ive seen those disabled people who try theeir hardest, and Ive also seen those who think they should get in the front of lines, and people should do things for them, etc etc. So, to summarize this? I agree with both the most recent posts. On a completely different note, [[wow]], I didnt know it costed that much to develop products like Jaws. And why does it? Nvda, which in many ways surpasses Jaws even though it s in its 8th year of development and jaws is in its 16, clearly doesnt cost anything, as its being handed out for free. And Microsoft narrator? I could perhaps see that progressing, to suit the direction windows is going in anyway. Personally, there are many aspects of the OS I dont agree with, but thats not my choice and complaining of such things here would be quite frivolous. I could see things such as the braille note costing a lot, as its a computer, speciffically developed for the blind. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188076#p188076 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity Not wanting to shop somewhere because of high prices is reasonable though. As for Tap Tap See I actually couldnt get it to work consistently and I tried for quite a long time. It seems if you dont have the camera positioned just exactly right youll get only part or even none of the object youre trying to take a pic of. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188080#p188080 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity
2014-09-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: a few complaints about the blind comunity True. And I believe that also requires a wifi connection to use. Perhaps apps with OCR would work with such things as labeling? Or is there speciffic apps for that? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=188093#p188093 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
