Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Sean DALY]

Adobe AIR for Linux beta

http://blogs.adobe.com/ashutosh/2008/09/adobe_air_for_linux_beta_is_ou_1.html

no DRM support :-)



On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 1:09 PM, Frances Berriman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Battley
> Sent: 07 July 2008 11:54
> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100
>
> 2008/7/7 Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> Is Adobe Air any good for developing in?
>>
>> Has anyone done anything good with it?
>
> There's http://freshairapps.com/showcase (about to become
> refreshingapps.com because Adobe didn't want to play) for some
> reasonably polished little apps.
>
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please 
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.  
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>
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RE: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Frances Berriman]

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Battley
Sent: 07 July 2008 11:54
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

2008/7/7 Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Is Adobe Air any good for developing in?
>
> Has anyone done anything good with it?

There's http://freshairapps.com/showcase (about to become
refreshingapps.com because Adobe didn't want to play) for some
reasonably polished little apps.

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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Paul Battley]

2008/7/7 Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Is Adobe Air any good for developing in?
>
> Has anyone done anything good with it?
>
> I tried this Twitter client, but it's a bit pants, IMHO

Twitter clients are the Hello Worlds of Air development:
http://twitter.pbwiki.com/Apps#MultiPlatform

Paul.
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Matt Barber]

>
> So...
>
> Is Adobe Air any good for developing in?
>

Not tried it but would like to soon, I was considering either a small
project in AIR or Gears, would anyone recommend either or the other? I've
always liked Flash, so might try something in AIR.

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Brian Butterworth]

So...

Is Adobe Air any good for developing in?

Has anyone done anything good with it?

I tried this Twitter client, but it's a bit pants, IMHO

http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/09/05/snitter-an-adobe-air-twitter-client/

2008/7/3 Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>  Interesting question to the backstage community...
>
> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in Adobe
> Air, how would people feel about that?
>
> There's a run time and SDK for Win, OSx and now gnu/Linux.
>
> Ian Forrester
>
> This e-mail is: [ x ] private; [  ] ask first; [  ] bloggable
>
> Senior Producer, BBC Backstage
> BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP
> e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> p: +44 (0)2080083965
>
>
>  --
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Graham Gillies
> *Sent:* 03 July 2008 15:20
> *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> *Subject:* RE: [backstage] BBC Widget, nice!
>
>  I like it too. The Adobe Air platform seems quite good.
>
> I got a Breaking News window today on bottom left of screen.
>
> It would be nice to think what other tabs could be put in beyond News and
> Sport... Weather i guess. The new iplayer feeds could be good...
>
>
>
> Graham
>
> Graham Gillies
> Multiplatform Development,
> Factual Content, BBC Scotland.
>
>  --
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Brian Butterworth
> *Sent:* 02 July 2008 14:32
> *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
> *Subject:* [backstage] BBC Widget, nice!
>
> Just looking at the "BBC Widget"...
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/07/free_range_widgets.html
>
> Seems OK, but it does fall into the "recycled feeds" category...
>
> Love the blurry slide to read the story!
>
> --
>
> Brian Butterworth
>
> http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover
> advice, since 2002
>
>


-- 

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice,
since 2002

RE: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Matthew Cashmore]

Hi Kirsteen.

You can un-subscribe from the list by visiting 

http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html

Kindest regards,

m
___
Matthew Cashmore
Senior Research Producer

BBC Future Media & Technology, Research and Innovation
BC4A5, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TS

T:020 8008 3959(02  83959) 
M:07711 913241(072 83959)




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Kirsteen McNish
Sent: Fri 7/4/2008 16:45
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: RE: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100
 
can you please take me off this list please.
 
thanks



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Lockwood
Sent: 04 July 2008 15:58
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100



 
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Fred Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Fri Jul  4 15:16:03 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Fred Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri Jul  4 11:59:45 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> >
> > > If you don't want to use non-"free" software, then don't.  Don't 
go
> > > trying to impose your restrictions on the rest of us.  You don't
> > > want to code with AIR, then don't.  Simple solution.
> >
> > But it is suggested that this competition be _only_ provided to 
people
> > who use non-free software. It's not a simple solution, if people
> > choose not use Adobe AIR they cannot enter the competition.
> >
>
> "Mummy, the big boys won't let me play!!!"
>
> You've made your bed - now lie in it.
>
> R.


So it's okay to exlude people because of their beliefs?



No.  It's OK to exclude people if they've made a practical decision knowing 
that decision may exclude them.  In effect, if they exclude themselves.
 
R.

<>

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Alia Sheikh]

:):)


Unrelated, but seeing as they're here: many thanks to Alia, Matt, Ian 
and everyone else who helped make Mashed so great!


Phil 


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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Dave Crossland]

2008/7/4 Mr I Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> I was approached by a large company to run a competition based on there
> technology. The base technology was xml but required there software to
> play it back.

I assume it was proprietary software :-(

> I did turn down the offer for many of the reasons brought up on the list
> recently.

Thank you!

> I did feel this should have done in a more transparent way but
> I never said no as such, so it could still happen.

I hope you will stand firm and continue to defend the software freedom
of those accessing BBC services.

-- 
Regards,
Dave
Personal opinion only.
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Mr I Forrester]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

So a little history

I was approached by a large company to run a competition based on there
technology. The base technology was xml but required there software to
play it back.

I did turn down the offer for many of the reasons brought up on the list
recently. I did feel this should have done in a more transparent way but
I never said no as such, so it could still happen.

However about competitions, we have a couple of competitions planned
already its just a matter of when. We feel its better to launch
competitions around new APIs/sets of Data rather that technologies. I
might be wrong, but generally a new API can really spark ideas.

Cheers,

Ian Forrester

See some of you at OpenTech08, where we might be launching something :)

Ben O'Connor wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I agree with Alia, can't we all just get along ?
> 
> If this is to be a competition about rich internet applications, then
> the competition could be open to AIR and alternatives, such as Google
> Gears etc. That is likely to appeal to our various sub-communities
> better. Also, wouldn't that be interesting in itself ?! All these
> fevered developers taking an opening concept and applying it to their
> 'colours' about open this, proprietary that. I'm sure the end user isn't
> bothered, as long as the final result is something that makes them get
> all teary and touch the screen, as they whisper "home". Offering
> guidelines but not restrictions makes it more like a sort of X-prize or
> Darpa race then. With a broad goal to work toward, that leaves plenty of
> room to go off in different directions and that allows for a nice,
> healthy gorge of innovation and ideas.
> 
> That's how I feel about it anyway.
> 
> Ben O'Connor
> 
> 
> On 4 Jul 2008, at 03:39, Alia Sheikh wrote:
> 
>> Oh I promised myself that I wouldn;t get involved, but yay Godzilla!
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RFEzpUsUBk
>>
>>
>> Ian - I'd like to know more about the competition.  If all we know is
>> that it's using AIR then that's all we'll argue^H^H^H^H^Htalk about. 
>> Whats it actually going to be?  Is Backstage runnning it or is someone
>> else? Also are competitions going to be a regular thing/will we get to
>> play with lots of stuff eventually or is this a one off?
>> Oh, and I crush everything:)
>>
>> Alia
>>
>> Richard Lockwood wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>2008/7/3 Matt Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>:
>>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Ian Forrester
>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
>>>>>
>>>>> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to
>>>be in Adobe
>>>>> Air, how would people feel about that?
>>>>
>>>> No problem with that.
>>>
>>>There is a large problem with that - Adobe Air is proprietary
>>>software, so it ought to be boycotted.
>>>
>>> You boycott it Dave, if it makes you happy.  The rest of us can carry
>>> on living in the real world.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> It's using a new technology and product to encourage
>>>> development, and the technology is available to end users easily
>>>and with
>>>> little effort, on multiple platforms.
>>>
>>>But it tramples our freedom and community, which are more important.
>>>
>>> No Dave, you're thinking of Godzilla.
>>> Rich.
>>
>> -
>> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe,
>> please visit
>> http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. 
>> Unofficial list archive:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
> 
> 

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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Andy]

I agree whole heartedly with Michael here,

Personally, I prefer competitions that have a goal based upon the end user
experience rather than technologies the application utilises.  So "build an
app which encourages the over 60s to listen to BBC 1xtra" rather than "build
an app using AIR".

Again, the focus is on the what, rather than the how.

Andy
(positively personal opinion, surely)



On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 6:39 PM, Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Thursday 03 July 2008 16:41:00 Ian Forrester wrote:
> ..
> > If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in Adobe
> > Air, how would people feel about that?
>
> Suppose Blue Peter ran a competition for a new toy, but required that
> children
> only use Lego, what that be reasonable?
>
> I think the discussion has gone off at a tangent (largely due to political
> ranting presented as fact and the One True Truth).
>
> It strikes me that you're asking how would people feel we ran a competion
> that
> required a particular vendor's technology. I'd personally feel that the
> vendor should run the competition myself. (just feels like free advertising
> otherwise) That's obviously my personal views though.
>
> /Personally/ I think it would be more appropriate to suggest a competition
> where the result was a cross platform desktop application which should
> work on (say) Windows, Mac os X and Linux (and ideally not limited to
> those, but they're the most common). That opens up the doors to a
> variety of different things, including Adobe Air.
>
> I suspect you'd get a lot more interesting variety - since you'd also open
> it
> up to all sorts of things (including tech from the BBC...).
>
> ie focus the competition on the what, rather than the how.
>
> Regarding Alia's question I think you'd need to clarify if this is
> a "competition without a prize" which would probably mean BBC
> people could join in, or whether it was competition with a prize,
> in which case we probably couldn't... (cf competition rules in
> even things like Doctor Who Adventures magazine :-)
>
> That said, any competition is better than none - after all, its the taking
> part and having fun that matters... :-)
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Michael.
> (all personal thoughts)
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Dave Crossland]

2008/7/3 Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Interesting question to the backstage community...
>
> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in

I think its misguided for the BBC to require any particular kind of
technology, since it is a publicaly funded organisation it ought not
to exclude members of the public for using any particular software.
This applies equally to accessing its services and to entering its
competitions.

An exception to this might be requiring the use of BBC technology
(assuming it is free software) - so for example, a Kamaelia
competition.

Cheers,
Dave
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Peter Bowyer]

Surely not?

On 7/4/08, Michael (surely) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Friday 04 July 2008 20:13:07 Dan Brickley wrote:
>> I propose a six-week moratorium on the use of the word 'surely' in this
>> debate.
>
> Surely, the way to surley eliminate the use of the word surely, one and
> surely
> for all is to (surely) overuse it as surely and to the best of our ability,
> surely, inorder to surely eliminate it from use, lest one surely, be shown
> to
> be of surely weak mind and thought for surely using a word that surely
> presumes too much about their own position, surely ?
>
> Surely best regards,
>
> ;)
>
> Michael.
> (surely personal opinion)
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
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>

-- 
Sent from Google Mail for mobile | mobile.google.com

Peter Bowyer
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Michael (surely)]

On Friday 04 July 2008 20:13:07 Dan Brickley wrote:
> I propose a six-week moratorium on the use of the word 'surely' in this
> debate.

Surely, the way to surley eliminate the use of the word surely, one and surely 
for all is to (surely) overuse it as surely and to the best of our ability, 
surely, inorder to surely eliminate it from use, lest one surely, be shown to 
be of surely weak mind and thought for surely using a word that surely 
presumes too much about their own position, surely ?

Surely best regards,

;)

Michael.
(surely personal opinion)
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Dan Brickley]

Dave Crossland wrote:

2008/7/4 simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:



Surely the main thing is that we preserve our freedom to understand
and share the software we use to do our computation.


I propose a six-week moratorium on the use of the word 'surely' in this 
debate.



Using software running on other people's servers to do _our_
computation also tramples our freedom, and this is becoming more
common with RIA technology.


Yup. I find it has really trampled on my freedom to have Internet cables 
trailing all around the house, and my freedom to be constantly worrying 
about keeping everything security-patched. Freedom horrible freedom!


Dan

--
http://danbri.org/

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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Michael]

On Friday 04 July 2008 15:50:29 Adam Hatia wrote:
> I wish I could be excluded from this banal tit-for-tat kids game!

There's the backstage-developer mailing list as well, for what it's worth.


Michael.
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Michael]

On Friday 04 July 2008 10:05:08 Fred Phillips wrote:
> You mean that world where you berate people for their morals? To be
> honest, I don’t really want to live there.

That's actually precisely what Dave does as well. My mail client auto-deletes 
mails from Dave since I decided I'd had enough when he started telling me I 
was wrong (and in his eyes probably evil) for actually buying, installing and 
running a piece of proprietary software on my Xorg/Qt/KDE/Suse/Gnu/Linux 
(hereinafter "Linux") system.

Life for me is easier, and its not because I'm judging him (he's fine to have 
whatever views he likes), but it's because I no longer have to listen to him 
sitting in judgement of me.

It's the corollary of the right to speak - the right not to listen. He
insisted on repeatedly judging me and others around me in ways I
feel invalid, so I stopped listening.

*shrug*

That's my guess about what Richard meant about "boycotting" Dave. He
might've been judging Dave as well, dunno. Not particularly interested really.
I'm here to talk about code, prototypes and fun stuff, not to persuade people 
that their views on freedom are "wrong". I don't expect it back, so I took 
Dave's suggestion of "deploying filters".


Michael.

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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Michael]

On Thursday 03 July 2008 16:41:00 Ian Forrester wrote:
..
> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in Adobe
> Air, how would people feel about that?

Suppose Blue Peter ran a competition for a new toy, but required that children 
only use Lego, what that be reasonable?

I think the discussion has gone off at a tangent (largely due to political
ranting presented as fact and the One True Truth).

It strikes me that you're asking how would people feel we ran a competion that 
required a particular vendor's technology. I'd personally feel that the 
vendor should run the competition myself. (just feels like free advertising 
otherwise) That's obviously my personal views though.

/Personally/ I think it would be more appropriate to suggest a competition
where the result was a cross platform desktop application which should
work on (say) Windows, Mac os X and Linux (and ideally not limited to
those, but they're the most common). That opens up the doors to a
variety of different things, including Adobe Air.

I suspect you'd get a lot more interesting variety - since you'd also open it
up to all sorts of things (including tech from the BBC...).

ie focus the competition on the what, rather than the how.

Regarding Alia's question I think you'd need to clarify if this is
a "competition without a prize" which would probably mean BBC
people could join in, or whether it was competition with a prize,
in which case we probably couldn't... (cf competition rules in
even things like Doctor Who Adventures magazine :-)

That said, any competition is better than none - after all, its the taking 
part and having fun that matters... :-)

Regards,


Michael.
(all personal thoughts)
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Michael]

On Thursday 03 July 2008 21:46:16 Richard Lockwood wrote:
..
> >  But it tramples our freedom and community, which are more important.
>  
> No Dave, you're thinking of Godzilla.

+1 QOTW


Michael.


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RE: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Kirsteen McNish]

can you please take me off this list please.
 
thanks



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Lockwood
Sent: 04 July 2008 15:58
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100



 
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Fred Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Fri Jul  4 15:16:03 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Fred Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri Jul  4 11:59:45 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> >
> > > If you don't want to use non-"free" software, then don't.  Don't 
go
> > > trying to impose your restrictions on the rest of us.  You don't
> > > want to code with AIR, then don't.  Simple solution.
> >
> > But it is suggested that this competition be _only_ provided to 
people
> > who use non‐free software. It's not a simple solution, if people
> > choose not use Adobe AIR they cannot enter the competition.
> >
>
> "Mummy, the big boys won't let me play!!!"
>
> You've made your bed - now lie in it.
>
> R.


So it's okay to exlude people because of their beliefs?



No.  It's OK to exclude people if they've made a practical decision knowing 
that decision may exclude them.  In effect, if they exclude themselves.
 
R.

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Peter Bowyer]

2008/7/4 Adam Hatia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> I wish I could be excluded from this banal tit-for-tat kids game!

Unfortunately, the modus operandi of this list allows repeated
regurgitation of tired freedom arguments and the religious wars that
ensue. Fortunately, on-topic content crops up often enough to stop the
whole list being completely swamped and rendered useless for its
intended purpose. Just.

-- 
Peter Bowyer
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Richard Lockwood]

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Fred Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>  On Fri Jul  4 15:16:03 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Fred Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri Jul  4 11:59:45 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you don't want to use non-"free" software, then don't.  Don't go
> > > > trying to impose your restrictions on the rest of us.  You don't
> > > > want to code with AIR, then don't.  Simple solution.
> > >
> > > But it is suggested that this competition be _only_ provided to people
> > > who use non‐free software. It's not a simple solution, if people
> > > choose not use Adobe AIR they cannot enter the competition.
> > >
> >
> > "Mummy, the big boys won't let me play!!!"
> >
> > You've made your bed - now lie in it.
> >
> > R.
>
> So it's okay to exlude people because of their beliefs?
>

No.  It's OK to exclude people if they've made a practical decision knowing
that decision may exclude them.  In effect, if they exclude themselves.

R.

RE: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Adam Hatia]

I wish I could be excluded from this banal tit-for-tat kids game!


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Phillips
Sent: 04 July 2008 15:33
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

On Fri Jul  4 15:16:03 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Fred Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri Jul  4 11:59:45 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> >
> > > If you don't want to use non-"free" software, then don't.  Don't go
> > > trying to impose your restrictions on the rest of us.  You don't
> > > want to code with AIR, then don't.  Simple solution.
> >
> > But it is suggested that this competition be _only_ provided to people
> > who use non‐free software. It's not a simple solution, if people
> > choose not use Adobe AIR they cannot enter the competition.
> >
> 
> "Mummy, the big boys won't let me play!!!"
> 
> You've made your bed - now lie in it.
> 
> R.

So it’s okay to exlude people because of their beliefs?
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Fred Phillips]

On Fri Jul  4 15:16:03 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Fred Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri Jul  4 11:59:45 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> >
> > > If you don't want to use non-"free" software, then don't.  Don't go
> > > trying to impose your restrictions on the rest of us.  You don't
> > > want to code with AIR, then don't.  Simple solution.
> >
> > But it is suggested that this competition be _only_ provided to people
> > who use non‐free software. It's not a simple solution, if people
> > choose not use Adobe AIR they cannot enter the competition.
> >
> 
> "Mummy, the big boys won't let me play!!!"
> 
> You've made your bed - now lie in it.
> 
> R.

So it’s okay to exlude people because of their beliefs?


pgpZqvfuXqoz8.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Richard Lockwood]

You may not.  A certain Mr Crossland does.

R.

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Fred Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>  On Fri Jul  4 10:24:29 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> > > Have you ever considered your freedom, or do you thrive off being
> > > facetious?
> > >
> >
> >
> > Yes.  I regular consider my freedom.  My freedom to consider, carefully
> > think about and, where appropriate amend my views.  My rights to not be
> > hectored, badgered and lectured at, at every possible opportunity, by
> people
> > who consider their views (or rather, views that they've taken verbatim
> from
> > a third party) the only possible moral stance, and by people who use
> > inflammatory and emotive words such as "evil" in entirely inappropriate
> > circumstances.
> >
> > How about you?
> >
> > Rich.
>
> I have no taken my views verbatim. After researching free software I
> found that the freedoms set out by GNU fit in line with my ethics
> outside of software. I do not assume my views are the only possible
> stance, but I do believe people who do not share my views to be
> immoral.
>
> Try to remember that by telling people what you think their views are
> doesn't make them so.
>



-- 
SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073

Registered address:
4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Richard Lockwood]

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Fred Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Fri Jul  4 11:59:45 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
>
> > If you don't want to use non-"free" software, then don't.  Don't go
> > trying to impose your restrictions on the rest of us.  You don't
> > want to code with AIR, then don't.  Simple solution.
>
> But it is suggested that this competition be _only_ provided to people
> who use non‐free software. It's not a simple solution, if people
> choose not use Adobe AIR they cannot enter the competition.
>

"Mummy, the big boys won't let me play!!!"

You've made your bed - now lie in it.

R.

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Fred Phillips]

On Fri Jul  4 10:24:29 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> > Have you ever considered your freedom, or do you thrive off being
> > facetious?
> >
> 
> 
> Yes.  I regular consider my freedom.  My freedom to consider, carefully
> think about and, where appropriate amend my views.  My rights to not be
> hectored, badgered and lectured at, at every possible opportunity, by people
> who consider their views (or rather, views that they've taken verbatim from
> a third party) the only possible moral stance, and by people who use
> inflammatory and emotive words such as "evil" in entirely inappropriate
> circumstances.
> 
> How about you?
> 
> Rich.

I have no taken my views verbatim. After researching free software I
found that the freedoms set out by GNU fit in line with my ethics
outside of software. I do not assume my views are the only possible
stance, but I do believe people who do not share my views to be
immoral.

Try to remember that by telling people what you think their views are
doesn’t make them so.


pgpW4sDF6uiya.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Phil Wilson]

I've left this list once before, because whilst it's full of interesting 
people, I've absolutely no interest in watching them bang their heads 
against each other in the same way over and over again.  I still have no 
interest in that.  Whilst it is your right to speak it is also everyone 
elses right to not to have to listen.  If this is going to get 
religious, then I'm out of here.


I have a filter which deletes certain emails automatically for this very 
reason. ;)

I would like to see an RIA competition, restricting it to AIR seems a bit strange though 
(although it's now bundled with Adobe Reader 9 which I imagine makes it more compelling).


Unrelated, but seeing as they're here: many thanks to Alia, Matt, Ian and everyone else 
who helped make Mashed so great!


Phil
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Fred Phillips]

On Fri Jul  4 11:59:45 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:

> If you don't want to use non-"free" software, then don't.  Don't go
> trying to impose your restrictions on the rest of us.  You don't
> want to code with AIR, then don't.  Simple solution.

But it is suggested that this competition be _only_ provided to people
who use non‐free software. It’s not a simple solution, if people
choose not use Adobe AIR they cannot enter the competition.


pgp3uhWOHlcMT.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Alan Pope]

On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 04:41:00PM +0100, Ian Forrester wrote:
>If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in Adobe
>Air, how would people feel about that?
> 
>There's a run time and SDK for Win, OSx and now gnu/Linux.
> 

32-bit only on Linux unfortunately, so not _quite_ cross platform. 

"Important: This prerelease of Adobe AIR for Linux is alpha-quality and is 
not feature complete. If you are looking for Adobe AIR for Macintosh or 
Windows, please go to Adobe.com."

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/air/

Cheers,
Al.
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Alia Sheikh]

Simon, Ben - I like that idea.  Use whatever tools you like.  Get a 
thing built.  Assess success or failure, lather rinse repeat.


Ian - your original question was this:
"If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in 
Adobe Air, how would people feel about that?"


So ok we now have some answers.  Clearly some people have strong 
feelings about not using AIR - as in specifically boycotting it, other 
people don't have any problem with using it and there are, I'm sure, 
lots of shades of grey in between.


It does seem like there would be enthusiasm for a competition of some 
sort involving writing RIAs, with lots of options for tools-of-choice.  
(Correct me if I'm wrong here guys).  So what I'd absolutely love is a 
bit more clarity on what prompted the quesiton in the first place.


As far as any suggestions go, I think it would be great to let people 
use whatever tools their personal belief system allowed, without 
restricting anyone else's freedom to make their own choices. 

If a competition was run that was promoted by and affiliated with 
Backstage that was focused entirely on a single technology (be it 
whatever) then it could be argued that we were failing to be even a 
little bit thorough in our investigative approach. 

If Adobe wish to run something and Backstage is generally interested in 
the output of it, then that is a different kettle of squid - it's 
understandable that Adobe would run a competition biased towards an 
Adobe product and Backstagers should feel free to take part as they see 
fit. 

I would be incredibly unhappy with a curtailment of my rights to learn, 
understand and investigate for the sake of a single viewpoint/belief 
system, which (whatever it's merits) is not one that every person on 
this list has subscribed to.  I would also be unhappy if we were seen to 
be playing favourites.


I've left this list once before, because whilst it's full of interesting 
people, I've absolutely no interest in watching them bang their heads 
against each other in the same way over and over again.  I still have no 
interest in that.  Whilst it is your right to speak it is also everyone 
elses right to not to have to listen.  If this is going to get 
religious, then I'm out of here.


So yeah, Ian - more clarity please.

All my love,

Alia











Dave Crossland wrote:

2008/7/4 simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
  

Ben's suggestion to allow the people to choose their RIA flavour whether it
be AIR, gears or whatever is very sensible.

Surely the main thing is that a good idea gets built.



Surely the main thing is that we preserve our freedom to understand
and share the software we use to do our computation.

Using software running on other people's servers to do _our_
computation also tramples our freedom, and this is becoming more
common with RIA technology.

"If your software would keep us divided and helpless, please don't
write it. We are better off without it. We will find other ways to use
our computers, and preserve our freedom."
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7487060.stm

Cheers,
Dave
Personal opinion only.
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Richard Lockwood]

No Dave.

The main thing *for you* is that you preserve *your* perceived freedom.  For
a lot of us, that isn't the main thing at all.  Please stop making sweeping
statements as though your world view is the only one.  If you don't want to
use non-"free" software, then don't.  Don't go trying to impose your
restrictions on the rest of us.  You don't want to code with AIR, then
don't.  Simple solution.

As ever Dave, it's all about *you*, and what *you* want.

Rich.

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 2008/7/4 simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Ben's suggestion to allow the people to choose their RIA flavour whether
> it
> > be AIR, gears or whatever is very sensible.
> >
> > Surely the main thing is that a good idea gets built.
>
> Surely the main thing is that we preserve our freedom to understand
> and share the software we use to do our computation.
>
> Using software running on other people's servers to do _our_
> computation also tramples our freedom, and this is becoming more
> common with RIA technology.
>
> "If your software would keep us divided and helpless, please don't
> write it. We are better off without it. We will find other ways to use
> our computers, and preserve our freedom."
> - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7487060.stm
>
> Cheers,
>  Dave
> Personal opinion only.
> -
> Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.  To unsubscribe, please
> visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html.
>  Unofficial list archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
>



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Registered address:
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Peter Bowyer]

2008/7/4 Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 2008/7/4 simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> Ben's suggestion to allow the people to choose their RIA flavour whether it
>> be AIR, gears or whatever is very sensible.
>>
>> Surely the main thing is that a good idea gets built.
>
> Surely the main thing is that we preserve our freedom to understand
> and share the software we use to do our computation.

No.

-- 
Peter Bowyer
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Follow me on Twitter: twitter.com/peeebeee
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Matt Barber]

Oops, posted that without a subject and on a new thread... here you are:

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 2008/7/4 simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Ben's suggestion to allow the people to choose their RIA flavour whether
> it
> > be AIR, gears or whatever is very sensible.
> >
> > Surely the main thing is that a good idea gets built.
>
> Surely the main thing is that we preserve our freedom to understand
> and share the software we use to do our computation.
>
> Using software running on other people's servers to do _our_
> computation also tramples our freedom, and this is becoming more
> common with RIA technology.
>
> "If your software would keep us divided and helpless, please don't
> write it. We are better off without it. We will find other ways to use
> our computers, and preserve our freedom."
> - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7487060.stm
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
> Personal opinion only.
>






This software by Adobe that makes it easier to deploy cross-platform,
desktop apps, and to use AJAX, HTML, Flash, and have it running
offline/online - and these skills would be useful in other situations too -
seems cool.
In regard to the.. discussion that this competition thread has become - this
is the double edged sword when such an organisation as the BBC gets
involved. Because they are open, friendly and quite frankly damn good I
think at letting other people fudge around with their stuff - and listening
back too, it is such an understated forum for expression of creative ideas
and technological solutions. But as it's publically funded, this gets pushed
aside with facts and figures of 'openness' and 'fair' use of 'free'
software.
Also, the subject of 'free' software alone could fill entire libraries with
[philosophical discussion|rants|arguments|insults|etc] - but is this why we
are here?
I'm here to have fun and to maybe try out some new things, and to read
interesting points of view on technology and the BBC.

This competition idea introduces a viable, probably robust option, that
finally allows multiple platforms to converse and use an app. It might be
something people can dig their teeth into, have a bit of fun with, and maybe
even god forbid make something useful that people can actually use? Or
should we insist that Windows is wrong, Flash is evil and anyone that says
otherwise is an idiot?

Well call me an idiot, but I love what Flash brought to the table many years
ago with it's easy to use scripting and tools, and I actually *enjoy* using
Windows on my PC. Hell, I even use Windows Media Player. It may surprise you
that I sometimes watch BBC TV and listen to the radio, too...


Please enjoy the freedom to discuss and have a point of view, but it
sometimes gets a little ridiculous.

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Dave Crossland]

2008/7/4 simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Ben's suggestion to allow the people to choose their RIA flavour whether it
> be AIR, gears or whatever is very sensible.
>
> Surely the main thing is that a good idea gets built.

Surely the main thing is that we preserve our freedom to understand
and share the software we use to do our computation.

Using software running on other people's servers to do _our_
computation also tramples our freedom, and this is becoming more
common with RIA technology.

"If your software would keep us divided and helpless, please don't
write it. We are better off without it. We will find other ways to use
our computers, and preserve our freedom."
- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7487060.stm

Cheers,
Dave
Personal opinion only.
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[simon]

Ben's suggestion to allow the people to choose their RIA flavour whether it
be AIR, gears or whatever is very sensible.

Surely the main thing is that a good idea gets built.







On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:24 AM, Richard Lockwood <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>>
>>
>>
> Have you ever considered your freedom, or do you thrive off being
>> facetious?
>>
>
>
> Yes.  I regular consider my freedom.  My freedom to consider, carefully
> think about and, where appropriate amend my views.  My rights to not be
> hectored, badgered and lectured at, at every possible opportunity, by people
> who consider their views (or rather, views that they've taken verbatim from
> a third party) the only possible moral stance, and by people who use
> inflammatory and emotive words such as "evil" in entirely inappropriate
> circumstances.
>
> How about you?
>
> Rich.
>

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Richard Lockwood]

>
>
>
>
>
Have you ever considered your freedom, or do you thrive off being
> facetious?
>


Yes.  I regular consider my freedom.  My freedom to consider, carefully
think about and, where appropriate amend my views.  My rights to not be
hectored, badgered and lectured at, at every possible opportunity, by people
who consider their views (or rather, views that they've taken verbatim from
a third party) the only possible moral stance, and by people who use
inflammatory and emotive words such as "evil" in entirely inappropriate
circumstances.

How about you?

Rich.

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Fred Phillips]

On Thu Jul  3 21:46:16 2008, Richard Lockwood wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 2008/7/3 Matt Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>
> > >> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in
> > Adobe
> > >> Air, how would people feel about that?
> > >
> > > No problem with that.
> >
> > There is a large problem with that - Adobe Air is proprietary
> > software, so it ought to be boycotted.
> 
> 
> You boycott it Dave, if it makes you happy.  The rest of us can carry on
> living in the real world.

You mean that world where you berate people for their morals? To be
honest, I don’t really want to live there.

> > > It's using a new technology and product to encourage
> > > development, and the technology is available to end users easily and with
> > > little effort, on multiple platforms.
> >
> > But it tramples our freedom and community, which are more important.
> 
> 
> No Dave, you're thinking of Godzilla.
> 
> Rich.

Have you ever considered your freedom, or do you thrive off being
facetious?


pgp64TW9Ykdft.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Ben O'Connor]

Hi Everyone,

I agree with Alia, can't we all just get along ?

If this is to be a competition about rich internet applications, then  
the competition could be open to AIR and alternatives, such as Google  
Gears etc. That is likely to appeal to our various sub-communities  
better. Also, wouldn't that be interesting in itself ?! All these  
fevered developers taking an opening concept and applying it to their  
'colours' about open this, proprietary that. I'm sure the end user  
isn't bothered, as long as the final result is something that makes  
them get all teary and touch the screen, as they whisper "home".  
Offering guidelines but not restrictions makes it more like a sort of  
X-prize or Darpa race then. With a broad goal to work toward, that  
leaves plenty of room to go off in different directions and that  
allows for a nice, healthy gorge of innovation and ideas.


That's how I feel about it anyway.

Ben O'Connor


On 4 Jul 2008, at 03:39, Alia Sheikh wrote:


Oh I promised myself that I wouldn;t get involved, but yay Godzilla!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RFEzpUsUBk


Ian - I'd like to know more about the competition.  If all we know  
is that it's using AIR then that's all we'll argue^H^H^H^H^Htalk  
about.  Whats it actually going to be?  Is Backstage runnning it or  
is someone else? Also are competitions going to be a regular thing/ 
will we get to play with lots of stuff eventually or is this a one  
off?

Oh, and I crush everything:)

Alia

Richard Lockwood wrote:



On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:


   2008/7/3 Matt Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   >:
   > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Ian Forrester
   <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
   >>
   >> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to
   be in Adobe
   >> Air, how would people feel about that?
   >
   > No problem with that.

   There is a large problem with that - Adobe Air is proprietary
   software, so it ought to be boycotted.

You boycott it Dave, if it makes you happy.  The rest of us can  
carry on living in the real world.




   > It's using a new technology and product to encourage
   > development, and the technology is available to end users easily
   and with
   > little effort, on multiple platforms.

   But it tramples our freedom and community, which are more  
important.


No Dave, you're thinking of Godzilla.
Rich.


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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Alia Sheikh]

Oh I promised myself that I wouldn;t get involved, but yay Godzilla!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RFEzpUsUBk


Ian - I'd like to know more about the competition.  If all we know is 
that it's using AIR then that's all we'll argue^H^H^H^H^Htalk about.  
Whats it actually going to be?  Is Backstage runnning it or is someone 
else? Also are competitions going to be a regular thing/will we get to 
play with lots of stuff eventually or is this a one off? 


Oh, and I crush everything:)

Alia

Richard Lockwood wrote:



On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


2008/7/3 Matt Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Ian Forrester
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
>>
>> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to
be in Adobe
>> Air, how would people feel about that?
>
> No problem with that.

There is a large problem with that - Adobe Air is proprietary
software, so it ought to be boycotted.

 
You boycott it Dave, if it makes you happy.  The rest of us can carry 
on living in the real world.
 




> It's using a new technology and product to encourage
> development, and the technology is available to end users easily
and with
> little effort, on multiple platforms.

But it tramples our freedom and community, which are more important.

 
No Dave, you're thinking of Godzilla.
 
Rich.


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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Richard Lockwood]

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 5:46 PM, Dave Crossland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 2008/7/3 Matt Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in
> Adobe
> >> Air, how would people feel about that?
> >
> > No problem with that.
>
> There is a large problem with that - Adobe Air is proprietary
> software, so it ought to be boycotted.


You boycott it Dave, if it makes you happy.  The rest of us can carry on
living in the real world.


>
>
> > It's using a new technology and product to encourage
> > development, and the technology is available to end users easily and with
> > little effort, on multiple platforms.
>
> But it tramples our freedom and community, which are more important.


No Dave, you're thinking of Godzilla.

Rich.

Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Paul Battley]

2008/7/3 Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Interesting question to the backstage community...
>
> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in Adobe
> Air, how would people feel about that?

Personally, I'd be disappointed to see a proprietary technology being
a requirement. As an option, I'd have no problem with it, but as a
prerequisite it would seem to show favour to Adobe.

> There's a run time and SDK for Win, OSx and now gnu/Linux.

But it's still from only one company, and dependent on their grace
(and, when it comes to Adobe and Linux, competence, frankly).

Then again, I'm not happy with the iPlayer being dependent on
Adobe/Apple, either, though I do my best to address that ;-)

Paul.
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Barry Carlyon]

ooh flame-ey.

The competition sounds interesting, as a student it would be interesting 
to learn adobe air in order to produce something that could be useful.
Depends on the nature of the competition, what we actually have to do (I 
mean)


Yours,

Fearghas McKay wrote:

David

On 3 Jul 2008, at 17:46, Dave Crossland wrote:


But it tramples our freedom and community, which are more important.


There are many different communities on this list - please do not 
conflate your community with mine. You do not speak for everyone on 
this list and it would be more helpful if you were to express that in 
the body of your mail rather than as a disclaimer in your .sig.


Ian - it is a new technology, with cross platform client side support 
that goes beyond Win2K, XP & Vista cross platform support. I see no 
problem in running a competition with it. Delivering all BBC content 
in it would be different but that is not what is being suggested ;-)


The people I have spoken to who have developed with it have mostly had 
nice things to say about it, after all as we are trying to make new 
things happen, we should use the best tools that are available for the 
job whilst allowing as a wide a range of users to participate on the 
client side.


Cheers

f

--
Who doesn't run Windaes, and has a mix of ~50/50 Linux/OSX boxen.

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mobile: 07729 048 443
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Fearghas McKay]

David

On 3 Jul 2008, at 17:46, Dave Crossland wrote:


But it tramples our freedom and community, which are more important.


There are many different communities on this list - please do not  
conflate your community with mine. You do not speak for everyone on  
this list and it would be more helpful if you were to express that in  
the body of your mail rather than as a disclaimer in your .sig.


Ian - it is a new technology, with cross platform client side support  
that goes beyond Win2K, XP & Vista cross platform support. I see no  
problem in running a competition with it. Delivering all BBC content  
in it would be different but that is not what is being suggested ;-)


The people I have spoken to who have developed with it have mostly had  
nice things to say about it, after all as we are trying to make new  
things happen, we should use the best tools that are available for the  
job whilst allowing as a wide a range of users to participate on the  
client side.


Cheers

f

--
Who doesn't run Windaes, and has a mix of ~50/50 Linux/OSX boxen.

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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Dave Crossland]

2008/7/3 Matt Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in Adobe
>> Air, how would people feel about that?
>
> No problem with that.

There is a large problem with that - Adobe Air is proprietary
software, so it ought to be boycotted.

> It's using a new technology and product to encourage
> development, and the technology is available to end users easily and with
> little effort, on multiple platforms.

But it tramples our freedom and community, which are more important.

-- 
Regards,
Dave
Personal opinion only
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Re: [backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Matt Barber]

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:41 PM, Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>  Interesting question to the backstage community...
>
> If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in Adobe
> Air, how would people feel about that?
>
> There's a run time and SDK for Win, OSx and now gnu/Linux.
>


No problem with that. It's using a new technology and product to encourage
development, and the technology is available to end users easily and with
little effort, on multiple platforms.

[backstage] Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:40:58 +0100

[Ian Forrester]

Interesting question to the backstage community...
 
If we ran a competition which required the final prototype to be in Adobe Air, 
how would people feel about that?
 
There's a run time and SDK for Win, OSx and now gnu/Linux.

Ian Forrester

This e-mail is: [ x ] private; [  ] ask first; [  ] bloggable

Senior Producer, BBC Backstage
BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
p: +44 (0)2080083965


 




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Graham 
Gillies
Sent: 03 July 2008 15:20
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: RE: [backstage] BBC Widget, nice!


I like it too. The Adobe Air platform seems quite good. 
 
I got a Breaking News window today on bottom left of screen.
 
It would be nice to think what other tabs could be put in beyond News 
and Sport... Weather i guess. The new iplayer feeds could be good...
 
 
 
Graham
 
Graham Gillies
Multiplatform Development,
Factual Content, BBC Scotland.




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian 
Butterworth
Sent: 02 July 2008 14:32
To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk
Subject: [backstage] BBC Widget, nice!


Just looking at the "BBC Widget"...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2008/07/free_range_widgets.html

Seems OK, but it does fall into the "recycled feeds" category...

Love the blurry slide to read the story!

--

Brian Butterworth

http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover 
advice, since 2002