[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On 12/22/22 18:45, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > Shirley none of you are serious about a 32-bit (at least partially) > operating system being able to execute on a 286 processor. > > You couldn't even run Windows 3.1 in Enhanced mode on a 286 processor. Well, if you want to pedantic about it, you certainly could emulate a 32-bit processor on any reasonably Turing-equivalent processor, given sufficient memory. It might be incredibly slow, but you could do it. --Chuck
[cctalk] looking for a laptop
Anyone partimg with some dang-old thing? It has to work. I'm leaning towards a mono screen. I'm leaning against Zeniths, got 2 Minisports. But anything is possible. IBM produced a Kanji subbish laptop some years ago. I want to say it had a 286. Anyone know?
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 10:41 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > > You've apparently never heard of Tony Duell: last I read he was running > > Windows 98 on an IBM PC/XT or something like that :) > > Tony, > are you around? QSL The only 'classic' Windows system I have is an HP150. Of course that is a specially modified version of Windows1 (doesn't even have overlapping windows) Alas I have had to get a more modern PC to have access to the internet and this list. I don't regard it as a computer. I do not know how to program it, I do not know how to interface it. It does what the manufacturers want, not what I want. And we call this progress. Still got all my classics though, and a few more. Spent the last couple of months sorting out a strange 68020 box called a Stride 440. I guess that's on-topic here. -tony
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
Win95/Win98 would be happy with a PC/AT 286, with appropriate RAM On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: I don't think "happy" is how I would describe that. Would it run? Maybe. Would I want to run it like that? Nope. Not at all. I stand corrected. "Run", no. "limp along", yes It could do a few useful things; but was far from suitable for general purpose. On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: Shirley none of you are serious about a 32-bit (at least partially) operating system being able to execute on a 286 processor. You couldn't even run Windows 3.1 in Enhanced mode on a 286 processor. On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Seems a bit impossible to me as well but Fred has made computers do things that would make ordinary men involuntarily lose their bladder so I look forward to the story/explanation. Well, some of that was just being ignorant that certain things weren't "possible" until after they were done. but, really, nothing fancy. If you have A computer, and need it to do many different things adequately, you have much greater requirements, than if you have MANY computers, many of which are dedicated to specific tasks. "Telephone log", "order entry", "order processing", "bookkeeping and accounting" don't require much; "documentation" and "desktop publishing" need a bit more, but different needs. And NONE of those should EVER be on the same machines used for software development and testing. Software development calls for more speed, for decent compile, assmble, and link times. Software testing must be done on a variety of machines, specifically including ones at the level of the customer. XenoCopy 1.000 was tested on 5150. And that was ALL that it ran on. Changes had to be made when "compatible" machines came out. Many companies make the mistake of providing state of the art machines to their testers, who therefore don't experience the kinds of problems that the customers get on crappy machines. For example, when an operating system company uses high end RELIABLE machines for testing, they don't experience the problems, and end up with very poor error handling. For example, Microsoft was unaware that a disk error, even a minor one, could/would corrupt the content being written to disk by write cacheing in SMARTDRV. When that was reported to them by Win3.1 beta testers, their response was LITERALLY, "That's a hardware issue; NOT OUR PROBLEM." They had to do a major free "update" towards DOS 6.2x because of that (SMARTDRV was the only issue that actually forced that free update; the "problems with disk compression" were virrtually ALL SMARTDRV.) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
> On 12/22/2022 8:45 PM CST Glen Slick via cctalk > > Shirley none of you are serious about a 32-bit (at least partially) > operating system being able to execute on a 286 processor. > > You couldn't even run Windows 3.1 in Enhanced mode on a 286 processor. > > > Well, there's always Linux on an 8 bit microcontroller... https://hackaday.com/2012/03/28/building-the-worst-linux-pc-ever/ Will I do not think you can name many great inventions that have been made by married men. Nikola Tesla
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
On 12/22/22 17:26, Chris via cctalk wrote: > You all aren't referring to that hammered look? > You used to see the wrinkle coat in black on all manner of WWII military electronics. Some examples here: https://www.radioblvd.com/WWII_Communications_%20Equipment.htm --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 6:50 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > There's also a finish you'd often see in car trunks--"spatter coat"--a > textured finish with multicolored globs of paint. That *is* possible > with a rattle can. > > --Chuck > Yes, I've used it, though I've forgotten the application and can't remember how it turned out. It was a long while ago. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
Seems a bit impossible to me as well but Fred has made computers do things that would make ordinary men involuntarily lose their bladder so I look forward to the story/explanation. Sellam On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 6:46 PM Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > On Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 6:16 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk > > wrote: > > > >> Win95/Win98 would be happy with a PC/AT 286, with appropriate RAM > > > > On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > > I don't think "happy" is how I would describe that. > > > Would it run? Maybe. > > > Would I want to run it like that? Nope. Not at all. > > > > I stand corrected. > > "Run", no. > > "limp along", yes > > It could do a few useful things; but was far from suitable for general > > purpose. > > > > Shirley none of you are serious about a 32-bit (at least partially) > operating system being able to execute on a 286 processor. > > You couldn't even run Windows 3.1 in Enhanced mode on a 286 processor. > > > >
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
On 12/22/22 17:26, Chris via cctalk wrote: > You all aren't referring to that hammered look? No, hammertone is something else. What I'm talking about is the finish that you'd often see rack panels (I do have a blank in hammertone, however)., usually black. Kennedy toolboxes (maybe still do) had a rough finish like that. There's also a finish you'd often see in car trunks--"spatter coat"--a textured finish with multicolored globs of paint. That *is* possible with a rattle can. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 6:16 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > >> Win95/Win98 would be happy with a PC/AT 286, with appropriate RAM > > On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > I don't think "happy" is how I would describe that. > > Would it run? Maybe. > > Would I want to run it like that? Nope. Not at all. > > I stand corrected. > "Run", no. > "limp along", yes > It could do a few useful things; but was far from suitable for general > purpose. > Shirley none of you are serious about a 32-bit (at least partially) operating system being able to execute on a 286 processor. You couldn't even run Windows 3.1 in Enhanced mode on a 286 processor. >
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
Win95/Win98 would be happy with a PC/AT 286, with appropriate RAM On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote: I don't think "happy" is how I would describe that. Would it run? Maybe. Would I want to run it like that? Nope. Not at all. I stand corrected. "Run", no. "limp along", yes It could do a few useful things; but was far from suitable for general purpose. "Happy"??!? as in a "happy holiday season"
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On 12/22/22 2:24 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: For PC’s, being able to run WinXP is an interesting cutoff Why use a cut off that's based on a date? After all, the list is a moving / sliding window. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On 12/22/22 3:41 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Win95/Win98 would be happy with a PC/AT 286, with appropriate RAM I don't think "happy" is how I would describe that. Would it run? Maybe. Would I want to run it like that? Nope. Not at all. -- Grant. . . . unix || die
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
You all aren't referring to that hammered look? And regarding a textured finish, I have a cheapo Raidmax atx case I got from Newegg about 4 years ago. 12.09$ after the rebate. Shipped. It and other cases I've bought in the last few years all seem to habe that slightly gritty appearance. Sellam and others said powder coating could be a possibility. But I don't understand how that could be done economically. Regardless the village boob was playing around with a spray can one day. And if you know nothing about spraying canned paint, you need to apply as many coats as possible, thereby achieving nice even coverage, and avoid the drips. After 1 coat I saw a sililar gritty finish to the atx case, but the "beads" of paint were larger. So maybe just maybe these things are painted with a finer tipped airgun. When I try it I'll report back. As for painting a 5170 case, I'll apply the final 2 coats perhaps at an angle, and adjuat the nosel so it sneezes all over the thing. Again we'll see. On Thursday, December 22, 2022, 08:01:30 PM EST, Tony Jones via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 4:59 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Chuck, > > You can buy that in a spray can at the hardware store. I've used it before > for some of the replicas I've built. It works great. > If you can achieve a textured finish using a rattle can you're a better man than I!
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Tony Jones via cctalk wrote: If you can achieve a textured finish using a rattle can you're a better man than I! On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 5:05 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: I won't claim to be a better man than you, but, 45 some years ago, there were rattle cans of "krinkle finish" sold in auto parts stores. Looked OK for valve covers. On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Tony Jones via cctalk wrote: A wrinkle finish isn't what I thought this was about. Plus gotta find it in the color you want, or top coat with something compatible. Very hard to achieve a finish like polane out of a rattle can. True. But, some "textured finish" from a "rattle can" is possible. Just not the right textures, nor colors, for the current need. Although, if you go to the specialty stores in 1977, you could ask them what else was available, . . .
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 5:05 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > > I won't claim to be a better man than you, but, > 45 some years ago, there were rattle cans of "krinkle finish" sold in auto > parts stores. Looked OK for valve covers. > A wrinkle finish isn't what I thought this was about. Plus gotta find it in the color you want, or top coat with something compatible. Very hard to achieve a finish like polane out of a rattle can.
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 4:59 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Chuck, You can buy that in a spray can at the hardware store. I've used it before for some of the replicas I've built. It works great. On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Tony Jones via cctalk wrote: If you can achieve a textured finish using a rattle can you're a better man than I! I won't claim to be a better man than you, but, 45 some years ago, there were rattle cans of "krinkle finish" sold in auto parts stores. Looked OK for valve covers. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
> On Dec 22, 2022, at 6:30 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> On 12/22/2022 4:34 PM CST Chuck Guzis via cctalk >> wrote: > >> >> That's not to say that Li-ion cells are without their quirks. I >> recently almost discarded a AA-sized 14500 cell because the output >> voltage had suddenly dropped to the point where none of my chargers >> would even see it. So I put it on a corner of my workbench against the >> time when I had accumulated several and could turn them in for >> disposal. A couple of days ago, I picked up the cell and checked it >> with my voltmeter and it read 3.5V. Put it in the charger, and slowly >> charged to capacity. What happened during the month or so that it sat >> on my workbench, I cannot say. >> >> --Chuck > > A VERY large percentage of LiIon batteries have a protection circuit built in > to prevent over-discharge. Even a lot of the "standard" cell types (e.g. > 18650s) The circuit disconnects the battery from its terminals if the > voltage drops too low, showing near 0 volts out. If it just barely meets the > cutoff, it may recover enough to re-activate the circuit, making it possible > to recharge it. Often, you can open the case, skip over the circuit board to > access the battery cell directly, and add a small amount of charge to > reactivate it. Then it will work normally. I've done this a few times. > > Will That rings a bell. The battery chapter I mentioned says that Li cells need protective circuits, so any loose cells or battery assemblies you buy have that built-in as a standard component. The only people who get to see bare cells are those who assemble their own battery packs. So car makers take in 18650 cells by the shipload, without built-in protection because they supply that protection as part of their packs. But when ordinary civilians buy lithium cells we get protected ones. paul
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 4:59 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Chuck, > > You can buy that in a spray can at the hardware store. I've used it before > for some of the replicas I've built. It works great. > If you can achieve a textured finish using a rattle can you're a better man than I!
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
Chuck, You can buy that in a spray can at the hardware store. I've used it before for some of the replicas I've built. It works great. Sellam On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 4:38 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 12/22/22 15:37, Chris via cctalk wrote: > > Ok I'll stick with rustoleum then. I'll attempt to mimic the original > texture even if not so perfect. > On the same subject, but slightly off topic, whatever happened to the > "wrinkle finish" (I think that's what it was called) that you'd often > see on old panels? > > My recollection is that it was a baked-in process that resulted in a > very tough finish. I've got at least one toolbox done this way. > > --Chuck >
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
On 12/22/22 15:37, Chris via cctalk wrote: > Ok I'll stick with rustoleum then. I'll attempt to mimic the original > texture even if not so perfect. On the same subject, but slightly off topic, whatever happened to the "wrinkle finish" (I think that's what it was called) that you'd often see on old panels? My recollection is that it was a baked-in process that resulted in a very tough finish. I've got at least one toolbox done this way. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: On 12/22/2022 5:02 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Another possible exception for banning XP: I think that the OQO is interesting enough to call for inclusion. It is a handheld, running XP. Screen slides partway off to reveal a keyboard. /me looks at his OQO 2, which still works (and has XP on it, as I recall). Battery is no more, though. it has the docking station as well. Bought new in 2005 or something. There is a common problem, that if that battery is discharged below some threshold, it won't charge on the normal charger(s). But, SOMETIMES, if you open the battery and force a little bit of charge into it, sometimes that will revive it. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
Ok I'll stick with rustoleum then. I'll attempt to mimic the original texture even if not so perfect.
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
Have you ever tried to fix textured drywall or lathe/plaster? It's always down to playing with various settings and trial/error if you want to match a specific finish. These coatings facilitate a texture but they won't do it for you. If you apply at a high pressure they're not going to do anything. You can spray Raptor flat if you so wish.I think you may be able to get Raptor in a quart but Polane is likely a gallon. Plus the hardener. Then you get into color.You'll need to have your local industrial finish shop tint based on your codes or apply a compatible (color) topcoat, emphasis on compatible. Then you get into application, you're usually applying at a low pressure, wider tip if you want to get a textured finish. I doubt your setup is this. 2K is 2-part catalyzed. Read up on health effects of isocyanates. On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 3:15 PM Chris via cctalk wrote: > So this polane stuff creates the texture when used with any airgun? > Everything I have is small, not ideal for painting a car, but more then > adequate for covering a 5170 case. Artist equipment. And I have a somewhat > larger gun that has a gravity fed canister that can hold upwards of 4oz. of > paint. The compressors I have can go from 20 to maybe 120psi iinm. > > The question is can this polane stuff be had in small quantities. And in > the color I want. > > What's a 2K? > >
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
> On 12/22/2022 4:34 PM CST Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > That's not to say that Li-ion cells are without their quirks. I > recently almost discarded a AA-sized 14500 cell because the output > voltage had suddenly dropped to the point where none of my chargers > would even see it. So I put it on a corner of my workbench against the > time when I had accumulated several and could turn them in for > disposal. A couple of days ago, I picked up the cell and checked it > with my voltmeter and it read 3.5V. Put it in the charger, and slowly > charged to capacity. What happened during the month or so that it sat > on my workbench, I cannot say. > > --Chuck A VERY large percentage of LiIon batteries have a protection circuit built in to prevent over-discharge. Even a lot of the "standard" cell types (e.g. 18650s) The circuit disconnects the battery from its terminals if the voltage drops too low, showing near 0 volts out. If it just barely meets the cutoff, it may recover enough to re-activate the circuit, making it possible to recharge it. Often, you can open the case, skip over the circuit board to access the battery cell directly, and add a small amount of charge to reactivate it. Then it will work normally. I've done this a few times. Will I do not think you can name many great inventions that have been made by married men. Nikola Tesla
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On 12/22/2022 5:02 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Another possible exception for banning XP: I think that the OQO is interesting enough to call for inclusion. It is a handheld, running XP. Screen slides partway off to reveal a keyboard. /me looks at his OQO 2, which still works (and has XP on it, as I recall). Battery is no more, though. it has the docking station as well. Bought new in 2005 or something.
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
On 12/22/22 13:50, Paul Koning wrote: > Yes, that looks similar to what I read. One interesting point in the > discussion I saw is that it said slow charging is not recommended for > NiMH because the right way to detect end of charge is by voltage drop, > and that drop is even smaller if the charge rate is low. So to have > reliable detection of "fully charged" you need to go reasonably fast. > Interesting. What I gathered was that once a cell is fully charged, anything beyond that is converted into heat. It also mentions that simply sticking a thermistor in the battery compartment is not a reliable way of gauging end-of-charge. So charging at a very low rate (say, 0.01C) will probably not cause much in the way of heating, but will take forever, which explains my driveway lights--they charge during daylight hours and only discharge at night at a low rate (there's an interesting circuit there that boosts the 1.2V and blinks 3 high-intensity LEDs about once per second. Clearly, the little PV cells can't supply much current. The problem that I have with NiMH cells is that they do occasionally spring a leak, with a nasty cleanup job afterwards. I've not run across a leaky Li-ion cell yet (knock on wood). That's not to say that Li-ion cells are without their quirks. I recently almost discarded a AA-sized 14500 cell because the output voltage had suddenly dropped to the point where none of my chargers would even see it. So I put it on a corner of my workbench against the time when I had accumulated several and could turn them in for disposal. A couple of days ago, I picked up the cell and checked it with my voltmeter and it read 3.5V. Put it in the charger, and slowly charged to capacity. What happened during the month or so that it sat on my workbench, I cannot say. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
So this polane stuff creates the texture when used with any airgun? Everything I have is small, not ideal for painting a car, but more then adequate for covering a 5170 case. Artist equipment. And I have a somewhat larger gun that has a gravity fed canister that can hold upwards of 4oz. of paint. The compressors I have can go from 20 to maybe 120psi iinm. The question is can this polane stuff be had in small quantities. And in the color I want. What's a 2K?
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
We used to shun anything newer than and including the IBM PC but time.marches on. You're safe if you discuss systems produced before 1990. After that put an OT in the front of your subject so as not to offend the purists. Personally I think anything built after 1995 is too new for cctalk, but thats just me. As mentioned elsewhere, the old "10 year" rule is long irrelevant. I think 1995 is a good general cut-off for a strictly time-based threshold, but it's not a hard boundary - PPC Macs I would think should still be in bounds. A softer rule would probably be "(nearly) anything goes except nearly-current Windows PCs". If a machine can run WinXP, it's too new. Also as mentioned, there are plenty of lists about modern PCs. On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: For PC’s, being able to run WinXP is an interesting cutoff, and I think makes sense. Another possible exception for banning XP: I think that the OQO is interesting enough to call for inclusion. It is a handheld, running XP. Screen slides partway off to reveal a keyboard. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 2:41 PM Tony Jones wrote: > > Polane and Raptor are urethenes. Usually catalyzed. > https://industrial.sherwin-williams.com/na/us/en/general-industrial/catalog/product/products-by-industry.11543145/polane-t-polyurethane-enamel.9197969.html "Widely used for coating business machines and computers because of resistance to stains, chemicals and abrasion and for long-term durability - Texturing minimizes surface irregularities and provides a three-dimensional appearance" You'll want to be using a supplied air system to safely spray a 2K.
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 2:38 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Chris, > > I don't know specifically about the IBM PC, but I think what you're > describing is powder coating. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_coating Powder coating is just a durable finish. It can be textured or flat. Polane and Raptor are urethenes. Usually catalyzed.
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On Thu, 22 Dec 2022, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: You've apparently never heard of Tony Duell: last I read he was running Windows 98 on an IBM PC/XT or something like that :) Tony, are you around? My experience was that Windoze 3.00 was the last that could be installed on an 8088. Win 3.10 and above demanded at least a few K of RAM above the 1MB boundary. (Himem.sys, A20) You could easily get away (3.10, 3.11) with 512K plus 64K addressed with A20. There MIGHT be some clever tricks to fool the SETUP program, which also installed SMARTDRV. Win95/Win98 would be happy with a PC/AT 286, with appropriate RAM -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
Traditionally Polane was used. (Sherwin Williams) Raptor is similar.I had a long discussion with their rep along the lines of "ok, but how much is the paint and how much is the application". It turns out it's a bit of both. Obviously you're not going to get texture with a very high pressure applicator. On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 2:36 PM Chris via cctalk wrote: > I must have asked numerous times on numerous forums how this is done. Did > you ever take a close look at the paint on a 5150 or 5170 (or hell even any > IBM monitors that are age appropriate, but those aren't metal). Did you > notive the wormy, orange pealy finish. I don't think anyone has seriously > attempted to explain how to accomplish that. It's not simply a sligjtly > gritty texture as in the case of modern atx cases, that can be done with a > spray can, sort of. > > Do they simply cause the spray gun to spit on the final coat, perhaps > while the previous coat is still tacky? >
[cctalk] Re: painting computer cases
Chris, I don't know specifically about the IBM PC, but I think what you're describing is powder coating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_coating Sellam On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 2:36 PM Chris via cctalk wrote: > I must have asked numerous times on numerous forums how this is done. Did > you ever take a close look at the paint on a 5150 or 5170 (or hell even any > IBM monitors that are age appropriate, but those aren't metal). Did you > notive the wormy, orange pealy finish. I don't think anyone has seriously > attempted to explain how to accomplish that. It's not simply a sligjtly > gritty texture as in the case of modern atx cases, that can be done with a > spray can, sort of. > > Do they simply cause the spray gun to spit on the final coat, perhaps > while the previous coat is still tacky? >
[cctalk] painting computer cases
I must have asked numerous times on numerous forums how this is done. Did you ever take a close look at the paint on a 5150 or 5170 (or hell even any IBM monitors that are age appropriate, but those aren't metal). Did you notive the wormy, orange pealy finish. I don't think anyone has seriously attempted to explain how to accomplish that. It's not simply a sligjtly gritty texture as in the case of modern atx cases, that can be done with a spray can, sort of. Do they simply cause the spray gun to spit on the final coat, perhaps while the previous coat is still tacky?
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 1:31 PM Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > For PC’s, being able to run WinXP is an interesting cutoff, and I think > makes sense. Zane > You've apparently never heard of Tony Duell: last I read he was running Windows 98 on an IBM PC/XT or something like that :) Sellam
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
> On Dec 22, 2022, at 4:30 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > On 12/22/22 11:42, Paul Koning wrote: >> I just read the battery chapter of the ARRL Amateur Radio Handboo, which >> discusses this particular point at some length. >> Among many other points it says (a) you can trickle charge a NiCd but not a >> NiMH, and (b) NiMH requires a more complex charging algorithm than NiCd, so >> that NiMH chargers are also capable of charging NiCd batteries safely, but >> NiCd chargers cannot charge NiMH cells without the risk of damage. >> >> I suspect NiMH charger circuits can be found. Buying $3 Chinese ones may >> work, or not; I keep remembering that China disallows selling unsafe >> equipment within the country but doesn't have any rules against exporting >> such things. >> >> >> > A good read on the issues of NiMH battery charging can be read here: > > https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/electronic_components/battery-technology/nimh-nickel-metal-hydride-charging.php > > It pretty much says that "you're damned if you and damned if you don't". Yes, that looks similar to what I read. One interesting point in the discussion I saw is that it said slow charging is not recommended for NiMH because the right way to detect end of charge is by voltage drop, and that drop is even smaller if the charge rate is low. So to have reliable detection of "fully charged" you need to go reasonably fast. Interesting. paul
[cctalk] Re: Using Gesswein board with RQDX3
> On Dec 22, 2022, at 3:30 PM, Lee Gleason via cctalk > wrote: > > I'm using several of these, on PRO380s, and on RQDX3s on MicroVAXes > and a BA23 11/73. Lessee, did you create the container file for the > disk? And make sure it's the same file name used in the command line that > starts > up the service? Did you do the command that tells the service to start > at system boot time? And, my favorite problem in setting these up - are > the cables plugged in right on both ends of both cables? I had to span > the vector space of linear combinations of plug orientations to get it > to work, since my cables didn't have keyways, and how to plug 'em in was > not obvious. When it works, it works great. Only problem is that I have > to pause a bit after powering on the system, to let the automatic file > backup finish before the 11/73 tries to access it. If you don't get > anywhere, David Gesswein is very helpful sorting out problems. Worth pointing out is that RDxx device sizes on RQDX3 and on the Pro are not the same, because the Pro always uses 16 sectors per track even if the device has longer tracks. Also: the device needs to be formatted. paul
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On Dec 22, 2022, at 11:29 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 5:35 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: >> We used to shun anything newer than and including the IBM PC but >> time.marches on. You're safe if you discuss systems produced before 1990. >> After that put an OT in the front of your subject so as not to offend the >> purists. Personally I think anything built after 1995 is too new for >> cctalk, but thats just me. > > As mentioned elsewhere, the old "10 year" rule is long irrelevant. > > I think 1995 is a good general cut-off for a strictly time-based > threshold, but it's not a hard boundary - PPC Macs I would think > should still be in bounds. > > A softer rule would probably be "(nearly) anything goes except > nearly-current Windows PCs". If a machine can run WinXP, it's too > new. Also as mentioned, there are plenty of lists about modern PCs. > > -Ethan For PC’s, being able to run WinXP is an interesting cutoff, and I think makes sense. Though in my case, my need for WinXP is due to a 35mm film scanner that only works with the OEM software, and that only runs on WinXP. Currently I use it via Parallels Desktop running on a 2010 Mac Pro. People lucky enough to have drum scanners run them with potentially older hardware, especially if connected to a Mac. I’ll argue that Intel-based Macs or newer are off-topic, and I say that even though I’m a heavy user of Macs, even 10+ year old ones, including having software that only runs on even older ones. I’d also argue pretty much any DEC Alpha, Sun, HP-UX, SGI IRIX, or non-PC IBM system is on topic. Even the current IBM z16 Mainframe is something of a classic in my mind. :-) Zane
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
On 12/22/22 11:42, Paul Koning wrote: > I just read the battery chapter of the ARRL Amateur Radio Handboo, > which discusses this particular point at some length. > Among many other points it says (a) you can trickle charge a NiCd but not a > NiMH, and (b) NiMH requires a more complex charging algorithm than NiCd, so > that NiMH chargers are also capable of charging NiCd batteries safely, but > NiCd chargers cannot charge NiMH cells without the risk of damage. > > I suspect NiMH charger circuits can be found. Buying $3 Chinese ones may > work, or not; I keep remembering that China disallows selling unsafe > equipment within the country but doesn't have any rules against exporting > such things. > > A good read on the issues of NiMH battery charging can be read here: https://www.electronics-notes.com/articles/electronic_components/battery-technology/nimh-nickel-metal-hydride-charging.php It pretty much says that "you're damned if you and damned if you don't". I wonder how many really good NiMH battery chargers are out there. Give me LiFePO₄ any day! --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
> On 12/22/2022 2:33 PM CST Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > > I haven't run across a single IC dedicated to the > process yet--I suspect there must be one out there somewhere. > > FWIW, > --Chuck There are quite a few. Mouser lists 278 that claim NiMh capability. All but 9 of those are multi-chemistry. https://www.mouser.com/c/semiconductors/integrated-circuits-ics/power-management-ics/battery-management/?battery%20type=Alkaline%2C%20NiCd%2C%20NiMH%7C~Lead%20Acid%2C%20LiFePO4%2C%20Li-Ion%2C%20Li-Polymer%2C%20Li-Phosphate%2C%20NiCd%2C%20NiMH~~Lead%20Acid%2C%20NiCd%2C%20NiMH%7C~LiFePO4%2C%20Li-Ion%2C%20Li-Polymer%2C%20NiCd%2C%20NiMH%2C%20SuperCap~~LiFePO4%2C%20Li-Ion%2C%20Li-Polymer%2C%20NiMH%7C~Li-Ion%2C%20Li-Polymer%2C%20NiCd%2C%20NiMH%7C~Li-Ion%2C%20NiCd%2C%20NiMH~~Li-Ion%2C%20NiMH%7C~NiCd%2C%20NiMH~~NiMH=Charge%20Management=semiconductors%2Fintegrated-circuits-ics%2Fpower-management-ics%2Fbattery-management%7C~Battery%20Type=pricing Will
[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
Oops. On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 12:10 PM steve shumaker via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > well.. apologies - this was not intended for the list. > > Steve > > On 12/22/22 11:49 AM, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: > > No kidding! It has been a while. I've pretty much been lurking > > without much to say here since I lost all my toys in the fires two > > years ago. Managed to replace a couple Heathkit units since then but > > with prices what they are, it'll never be what it was. > > > > I did score a PET 2001-8 that seems complete to include the keyboard > > (with keys missing). Been watching EBay for parts boxes but even > > those are usually serious money now. I'll keep watching though! I was > > hoping someone had already put some effort into 3d printing the keys > > as a solution - figured someone here would know about if it was done. > > Mike Stein pointed me at a complete set of replacement labels for the > > key tops so that's start. > > > > Enjoy! Happy Holidays! > > > > Steve > > > > > > On 12/21/22 11:40 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > >> Hi Steve. > >> > >> (Long time no talk.) > >> > >> My suggestion to you, as abhorrent as it may seem, is to buy a > >> complete PET > >> 2001, take your 3 keycaps, and part the rest out. Preferably one > >> that's in > >> crap shape. They aren't that uncommon. > >> > >> Sellam > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM steve shumaker via cctalk < > >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> > >>> OK..Now that you mention it, I do have a CBM PET question. I'm > >>> searching for replacement key tops for the chicklet keyboard. There are > >>> stems available (apparently 3d printed) on EPay but no caps. Any > >>> suggestions on where to look?I have the keyboard and it seems a > >>> little silly to spend $300 on EPay if I only need 3 keys > >>> > >>> Steve > >>> > >>> On 12/20/22 10:19 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > On 12/21/2022 12:03 AM, Chris via cctalk wrote: > > Apples and Coco's and C64's would be the common sublist > > > As much as I enjoy these machines, I ask that we do not create yet > another list for them. There are many fine forums for all of these > machines. The occasional PET or VIC question in here surely won't > ruffle too many feathers, and those of us who know quite a bit about > these machines can redirect the OP elsewhere if needed. > > > >>> > > > >
[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 11:49 AM steve shumaker via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > No kidding! It has been a while. I've pretty much been lurking > without much to say here since I lost all my toys in the fires two years > ago. Managed to replace a couple Heathkit units since then but with > prices what they are, it'll never be what it was. > What? I'll e-mail you privately. > I did score a PET 2001-8 that seems complete to include the keyboard > (with keys missing). Been watching EBay for parts boxes but even those > are usually serious money now. I'll keep watching though! I was hoping > someone had already put some effort into 3d printing the keys as a > solution - figured someone here would know about if it was done. Mike > Stein pointed me at a complete set of replacement labels for the key > tops so that's start. > Ask on the VCFed forums about 3D printed keycaps. I'm guessing someone has surely done that by now. If not, you can probably find someone who can and will. As far as PET 2001 prices, they're still lower than I think they should be but they're definitely climbing. You bought that one from me way back when for a good price. Sad to hear it is no longer. I sold one earlier in the year that had been heavily modified into a portable unit but I hope it didn't get parted out (however I think that's why the guy bought it). It was an interesting unit. In fact, I'll contact that buyer and see if he did end up disassembling it. If he did, maybe he has some extra keycaps for you. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: Using Gesswein board with RQDX3
I'm using several of these, on PRO380s, and on RQDX3s on MicroVAXes and a BA23 11/73. Lessee, did you create the container file for the disk? And make sure it's the same file name used in the command line that starts up the service? Did you do the command that tells the service to start at system boot time? And, my favorite problem in setting these up - are the cables plugged in right on both ends of both cables? I had to span the vector space of linear combinations of plug orientations to get it to work, since my cables didn't have keyways, and how to plug 'em in was not obvious. When it works, it works great. Only problem is that I have to pause a bit after powering on the system, to let the automatic file backup finish before the 11/73 tries to access it. If you don't get anywhere, David Gesswein is very helpful sorting out problems. -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR Control-G Consultants lee.glea...@comcast.net
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
On 12/22/22 11:42, Paul Koning wrote: > I just read the battery chapter of the ARRL Amateur Radio Handboo, which > discusses this particular point at some length. > > Among many other points it says (a) you can trickle charge a NiCd but not a > NiMH, and (b) NiMH requires a more complex charging algorithm than NiCd, so > that NiMH chargers are also capable of charging NiCd batteries safely, but > NiCd chargers cannot charge NiMH cells without the risk of damage. > > I suspect NiMH charger circuits can be found. Buying $3 Chinese ones may > work, or not; I keep remembering that China disallows selling unsafe > equipment within the country but doesn't have any rules against exporting > such things. > > I've done a little reading on the subject of NiMH charging. The nub of it appears to be that slow charge is best and should be discontinued when the cell voltage reaches 1.55V--the idea being to limit the temperature rise within the cell. I've seen circuits using discrete components (transistors) and those adapting voltage regulators and even microcontrollers. I haven't run across a single IC dedicated to the process yet--I suspect there must be one out there somewhere. My driveway blinking beacon lights seem to do quite well charging them from a plain old PV solar cell--they've lasted for years. All of this is child's play when compared to the problem of charging Li-ion cells. There, ICs like the TP4056 appear to reign supreme. FWIW, --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
well.. apologies - this was not intended for the list. Steve On 12/22/22 11:49 AM, steve shumaker via cctalk wrote: No kidding! It has been a while. I've pretty much been lurking without much to say here since I lost all my toys in the fires two years ago. Managed to replace a couple Heathkit units since then but with prices what they are, it'll never be what it was. I did score a PET 2001-8 that seems complete to include the keyboard (with keys missing). Been watching EBay for parts boxes but even those are usually serious money now. I'll keep watching though! I was hoping someone had already put some effort into 3d printing the keys as a solution - figured someone here would know about if it was done. Mike Stein pointed me at a complete set of replacement labels for the key tops so that's start. Enjoy! Happy Holidays! Steve On 12/21/22 11:40 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Hi Steve. (Long time no talk.) My suggestion to you, as abhorrent as it may seem, is to buy a complete PET 2001, take your 3 keycaps, and part the rest out. Preferably one that's in crap shape. They aren't that uncommon. Sellam On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM steve shumaker via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: OK.. Now that you mention it, I do have a CBM PET question. I'm searching for replacement key tops for the chicklet keyboard. There are stems available (apparently 3d printed) on EPay but no caps. Any suggestions on where to look? I have the keyboard and it seems a little silly to spend $300 on EPay if I only need 3 keys Steve On 12/20/22 10:19 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: On 12/21/2022 12:03 AM, Chris via cctalk wrote: Apples and Coco's and C64's would be the common sublist As much as I enjoy these machines, I ask that we do not create yet another list for them. There are many fine forums for all of these machines. The occasional PET or VIC question in here surely won't ruffle too many feathers, and those of us who know quite a bit about these machines can redirect the OP elsewhere if needed.
[cctalk] Re: PET chicklet key labels
Thanks - I've never seen that before. It'll definitely help with the restoration. Steve On 12/21/22 11:45 AM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: No personal experience but maybe this'll help: https://corei64.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product_id=285 Sorry for encouraging inappropriate threads ;-) m On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 1:56 PM steve shumaker via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: OK..Now that you mention it, I do have a CBM PET question. I'm searching for replacement key tops for the chicklet keyboard. There are stems available (apparently 3d printed) on EPay but no caps. Any suggestions on where to look?I have the keyboard and it seems a little silly to spend $300 on EPay if I only need 3 keys Steve On 12/20/22 10:19 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: On 12/21/2022 12:03 AM, Chris via cctalk wrote: Apples and Coco's and C64's would be the common sublist As much as I enjoy these machines, I ask that we do not create yet another list for them. There are many fine forums for all of these machines. The occasional PET or VIC question in here surely won't ruffle too many feathers, and those of us who know quite a bit about these machines can redirect the OP elsewhere if needed.
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
> On Dec 22, 2022, at 11:49 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk > wrote: > > I can't speak with any authority on the NiMH vs. NiCd substitution, > except that I've replaced them on low-draw devices and used the same > charger. After 20 years of doing this, I can't claim to have destroyed > any NiMH, though I can certainly appreciate the self-limiting of > overcharge on NiCd cells. I just read the battery chapter of the ARRL Amateur Radio Handboo, which discusses this particular point at some length. Among many other points it says (a) you can trickle charge a NiCd but not a NiMH, and (b) NiMH requires a more complex charging algorithm than NiCd, so that NiMH chargers are also capable of charging NiCd batteries safely, but NiCd chargers cannot charge NiMH cells without the risk of damage. I suspect NiMH charger circuits can be found. Buying $3 Chinese ones may work, or not; I keep remembering that China disallows selling unsafe equipment within the country but doesn't have any rules against exporting such things. paul
[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
No kidding! It has been a while. I've pretty much been lurking without much to say here since I lost all my toys in the fires two years ago. Managed to replace a couple Heathkit units since then but with prices what they are, it'll never be what it was. I did score a PET 2001-8 that seems complete to include the keyboard (with keys missing). Been watching EBay for parts boxes but even those are usually serious money now. I'll keep watching though! I was hoping someone had already put some effort into 3d printing the keys as a solution - figured someone here would know about if it was done. Mike Stein pointed me at a complete set of replacement labels for the key tops so that's start. Enjoy! Happy Holidays! Steve On 12/21/22 11:40 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Hi Steve. (Long time no talk.) My suggestion to you, as abhorrent as it may seem, is to buy a complete PET 2001, take your 3 keycaps, and part the rest out. Preferably one that's in crap shape. They aren't that uncommon. Sellam On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 10:56 AM steve shumaker via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: OK..Now that you mention it, I do have a CBM PET question. I'm searching for replacement key tops for the chicklet keyboard. There are stems available (apparently 3d printed) on EPay but no caps. Any suggestions on where to look?I have the keyboard and it seems a little silly to spend $300 on EPay if I only need 3 keys Steve On 12/20/22 10:19 PM, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: On 12/21/2022 12:03 AM, Chris via cctalk wrote: Apples and Coco's and C64's would be the common sublist As much as I enjoy these machines, I ask that we do not create yet another list for them. There are many fine forums for all of these machines. The occasional PET or VIC question in here surely won't ruffle too many feathers, and those of us who know quite a bit about these machines can redirect the OP elsewhere if needed.
[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
Here here! On Thursday, December 22, 2022, 02:29:48 PM EST, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: "what is vintage" has been a discussion since the beginning. It's when no one asks that I wonder if anyone cares. So I am ok with it. :-) b On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 2:25 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 11:19 AM Marvin Johnston via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > After all is said and done, my observations since the time this > > listserver was up in Washington is that anything OT has a very short > > "shelf life." That would suggest most people here have a working brain > > and thus, like the definition of pornography, they know OT when they see > > it. > > > > Hi Marvin. > > Except they invariably end up carrying on way too long, like this > discussion has :D > > Sellam >
[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 5:35 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: > We used to shun anything newer than and including the IBM PC but > time.marches on. You're safe if you discuss systems produced before 1990. > After that put an OT in the front of your subject so as not to offend the > purists. Personally I think anything built after 1995 is too new for > cctalk, but thats just me. As mentioned elsewhere, the old "10 year" rule is long irrelevant. I think 1995 is a good general cut-off for a strictly time-based threshold, but it's not a hard boundary - PPC Macs I would think should still be in bounds. A softer rule would probably be "(nearly) anything goes except nearly-current Windows PCs". If a machine can run WinXP, it's too new. Also as mentioned, there are plenty of lists about modern PCs. -ethan
[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
"what is vintage" has been a discussion since the beginning. It's when no one asks that I wonder if anyone cares. So I am ok with it. :-) b On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 2:25 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 11:19 AM Marvin Johnston via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > > After all is said and done, my observations since the time this > > listserver was up in Washington is that anything OT has a very short > > "shelf life." That would suggest most people here have a working brain > > and thus, like the definition of pornography, they know OT when they see > > it. > > > > Hi Marvin. > > Except they invariably end up carrying on way too long, like this > discussion has :D > > Sellam >
[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 11:19 AM Marvin Johnston via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > After all is said and done, my observations since the time this > listserver was up in Washington is that anything OT has a very short > "shelf life." That would suggest most people here have a working brain > and thus, like the definition of pornography, they know OT when they see > it. > Hi Marvin. Except they invariably end up carrying on way too long, like this discussion has :D Sellam
[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
After all is said and done, my observations since the time this listserver was up in Washington is that anything OT has a very short "shelf life." That would suggest most people here have a working brain and thus, like the definition of pornography, they know OT when they see it. A long way of saying OT or not is being well served by the choice of most people here on what they post... with the exception of the waaay too long discussion, Re: what is on topic?, currently taking place.
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 9:51 AM Zane Healy wrote: > > Having seen another of your posts, I’m left to wonder how many of us had > our eyes opened by this list back in 1997. In my case having worked on > some systems decidedly “vintage” systems, prior to joining the list helped > spark my interest. That and my love of Operating Systems. I want to say > that I found the list after picking up my first couple vintage computers, > back when you could find them at Goodwill cheap. > We all in some way owe a debt of gratitude to Bill Whitson (wherever he is these days) for bringing us all together and being the impetus for so much of what this hobby has become today. Sellam
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: what is on topic?
Anything up to 64-bit has been on topic over the life of this list. Though 64-bit initially was pushing it, less so now, as I’d definitely consider something like a Sun Ultra 2, or DEC Alpha to be very much on topic. I definitely participated in discussions of early Macintosh systems back around ’97. I doubt I participated much (if at all) in discussions of early PC’s. I’ve always viewed discussion of off-topic PC’s to be of more interest, though I am starting to look at vintage PC’s a bit differently (simply due to wanting to still access some vintage software, and needing to move off Parallels Desktop on my Mac). While I probably wouldn’t want to participate in a discussion of them, I’d argue that a “Willamette” Pentium 4 is sufficiently vintage, and something of an odd-ball today. Same with any PPC based Mac. While I have Intel based Mac’s that are 10+ old, I don’t consider them to be classic, especially as one is still in nearly daily use. I like your proposal of, "don't bring up boring modern topics that have a better home somewhere else." Having seen another of your posts, I’m left to wonder how many of us had our eyes opened by this list back in 1997. In my case having worked on some systems decidedly “vintage” systems, prior to joining the list helped spark my interest. That and my love of Operating Systems. I want to say that I found the list after picking up my first couple vintage computers, back when you could find them at Goodwill cheap. Zane > On Dec 21, 2022, at 11:58 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk > wrote: > > This list was never declared to be exclusively an 8-bit affair. I'm not > sure where you're getting that from. From the get go in 1997 when Bill > Whitson founded the list, all computers of a vintage or obsolete nature > were game for discussion. It's only after a few years and time marching on > with its inevitable technological progress, and companies that were once > industry stalwarts started to fall by the wayside, that we began to > question what the cut-off is. And as far as the IBM PC, it was definitely > vintage by the time the list was launched. The objections back in the day > as I remember them were to questions pertaining to modern x86 or Macintosh > systems that had plenty of forums elsewhere on the internet to engage in > discussions of those (i.e. this is not a tech support forum) (...unless > it's vintage tech). These days, however, I think it's fine to discuss > 286/386/486 and even Pentium (below the II, at least) systems because > they're sufficiently "vintage" now in the sense of the word that I think > brings focus to the purpose and nature of this hobby. > > In the interest of putting this thread to rest, if I were to call the rule, > I'd make it simple: don't bring up boring modern topics that have a better > home somewhere else. > > And with that, I hope we can move on, or at least morph this thread into a > more interesting topic. > > Sellam
[cctalk] Re: DLV11 M7940 SLU header wire colours?
> On Dec 21, 2022, at 7:16 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk > wrote: > > For a DLV11 EIA serial connection, I am about to wire up a fly lead cable to > go from an M7940 SLU (no dash version) 40-pin header to a DB25P … I could use > any colours but I'd really like to use the original colours for the above … The BC05C cable is described in full, including wire colors, in the docs for the Unibus DL11 (for example, PDF page 21 of the engineering drawings at http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/unibus/DL11_schem_Mar78.pdf, or table 3-6 on PDF page 34 of the user manual at http://www.bitsavers.org/www.computer.museum.uq.edu.au/pdf/DEC-11-HDLAA-B-D%20DL11%20Asynchronous%20Line%20Interface%20Manual.pdf) Specifically, for the pins asked: J - receive data - orange/white F - transmit data - white/blue E/M - interlock - red The ground wiring is a bit involved: Pin 7 on the D-sub is connected multiple: - cable shield to Berg B - brown/white to Berg UU - black jumper to D-sub pin 1 …and pin 1 on the D-sub is connected multiple: - cable shield to Berg A - blue/white to Berg VV - black jumper to D-sub pin 7
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
On Thu, Dec 22, 2022, 8:58 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Why they're used in a non-rechargable application is anyone's > guess. > Probably because of the characteristic of their discharge in conjunction with the heating coil. Sellam >
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
I can't speak with any authority on the NiMH vs. NiCd substitution, except that I've replaced them on low-draw devices and used the same charger. After 20 years of doing this, I can't claim to have destroyed any NiMH, though I can certainly appreciate the self-limiting of overcharge on NiCd cells. On some small tools taking NiCds, however, I've substituted Li-ion rechargeables (3.6v->3 NiCd) and used the low-cost charger PCBs that are usually sold as 3 or 4 in a snap-apart package. Those have worked well for me. I wonder if changing a couple of resistors on those could suit NiMH charging. FWIW, I've salvaged the Li-ion cells from discarded vaping e-cigs. Those generally are fairly high quality and run about 600 maH capacity at 3.6V. Why they're used in a non-rechargable application is anyone's guess. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: "Classic" RAM chips, #FREE, #RARE, #VINTAGE
> > I also have a selection of old PC CPUs ranging from 8088s and V20 compatible > to early Pentium and compatibles (e.g. AMD K6) If anyone is interested > contact me off list. I have about 15 total. I can do a quick inventory if > anyone is interested. > > Will The CPUs are now spoken for. But there is likely to be some more "treasure" buried around here, so don't go away :-) Will
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
> On 12/22/2022 10:02 AM CST Cedric Amand via cctalk > wrote: > > > Hi Jim, Maybe this is specific to europe but NiCds are hard to come by here, > they are prohibited since 2008 And even more prohibited since 2017 ( they > also exclude medical equipment ) I used to source them in ex-ussr countries > but even there they are hard to come by nowadays, quite expensive, and > usually new old stock from 10+ years ago which hardly qualifies as renewing > your battery pack, even if it's usually better than the 40+ years batteries. > On top of that they are usually 700mAh, which isn't much by today's standards > I'll be trying to shove 2400mAh NiMH in my CE150, the question remains, do I > keep the NiCd trickle charge (many people did and seem to stil be alive) or > do I go the extra mile and use a proper NiMh charger ( that'll blink when > batteries are full and stop the charge ) You could also argue wether or not a > $1 nimh charger from Aliexpress does any good to my safety. I'm surprised > "replacing nicd with modern equivalents" doesn't seem to have much attention > Le 2022-12- 22 16:52, Hi Cedric, I can't answer your question either; I've dealt with the same dilemma on a few occasions. But as Jim mentioned, I have not had trouble getting NiCds here in the US (new from China.) However, the reason I'm posting is that there is a website with tons of good information on different battery types, including charging, that may or may not be of some use to you https://batteryuniversity.com/articles Perhaps you can find some info there that helps. Will
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
Hi Jim, Maybe this is specific to europe but NiCds are hard to come by here, they are prohibited since 2008 And even more prohibited since 2017 ( they also exclude medical equipment ) I used to source them in ex-ussr countries but even there they are hard to come by nowadays, quite expensive, and usually new old stock from 10+ years ago which hardly qualifies as renewing your battery pack, even if it's usually better than the 40+ years batteries. On top of that they are usually 700mAh, which isn't much by today's standards I'll be trying to shove 2400mAh NiMH in my CE150, the question remains, do I keep the NiCd trickle charge (many people did and seem to stil be alive) or do I go the extra mile and use a proper NiMh charger ( that'll blink when batteries are full and stop the charge ) You could also argue wether or not a $1 nimh charger from Aliexpress does any good to my safety. I'm surprised "replacing nicd with modern equivalents" doesn't seem to have much attention Le 2022-12-22 16:52, Jim Brain via cctalk a écrit : > > On 12/22/2022 4:08 AM, Cedric Amand via cctalk wrote: > > Hey everyone, No - I won't ask if this is on topic or not :) I'm currently reparing an ALPS plotter ( a Tandy "ce 150" equivalent ) and it's not the first time I face the same problem ; how to replace NiCD batteries. In the past what I did is actually order new NiCd ( you can still find them here in Europe, well actually out of europe but in eastern countries close to europe ) However they are at best NOS nowadays, that does "work" enough for moderate use (I've done that on vintage laptops) This time I'd like to go a bit beyond that and replace the NiCd with modern NiMH (the plotter coils and motors will benefit the extra power) However the trickle chagre of NiCd applied to NiMH will either kill my batteries or kill me in a house fire. I see small $1 NiMH 5S charging boards on Aliexpress, I thought I might use that, try to shove it it the CE150 (or other devcies with the same problem) TL-DR : Before I re invent the wheel here ; Has anyone developed a proper way to replace NiCd with N > > > > iMH in vintage (mostly portable) equipment ? And I mean not simply swapping the batteries, I don't want that, I want a proper charge process. > > I apologize that I don't have an answer to the main question on how to > upgrade from NiCD to NiMH, as I considered it for a similar portable > printer a few years back, but decided I was not willing to incur the > risk for the usage I envisioned. > > My comment has more to do with the statements about NiCD batteries you > made. Is there a size constraint that hinders finding new cells to use? > I find brand new NiCD batteries of quite a few sizes all over, as many > folks use them to re-pack portable tool batteries and other similar > uses. I've repacked quite a few NICD containing systems (Old HP > portable computer, camcorder, printers) with these new NiCDs, which all > are smaller, have more storage capacity, and are brand new. > > If you decide to continue with NiCD and send cell dimensions, I'm happy > to see what I can find that's new. > > Jim > > -- > Jim Brain > br...@jbrain.com > www.jbrain.com >
[cctalk] Re: Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
On 12/22/2022 4:08 AM, Cedric Amand via cctalk wrote: Hey everyone, No - I won't ask if this is on topic or not :) I'm currently reparing an ALPS plotter ( a Tandy "ce 150" equivalent ) and it's not the first time I face the same problem ; how to replace NiCD batteries. In the past what I did is actually order new NiCd ( you can still find them here in Europe, well actually out of europe but in eastern countries close to europe ) However they are at best NOS nowadays, that does "work" enough for moderate use (I've done that on vintage laptops) This time I'd like to go a bit beyond that and replace the NiCd with modern NiMH (the plotter coils and motors will benefit the extra power) However the trickle chagre of NiCd applied to NiMH will either kill my batteries or kill me in a house fire. I see small $1 NiMH 5S charging boards on Aliexpress, I thought I might use that, try to shove it it the CE150 (or other devcies with the same problem) TL-DR : Before I re invent the wheel here ; Has anyone developed a proper way to replace NiCd with N iMH in vintage (mostly portable) equipment ? And I mean not simply swapping the batteries, I don't want that, I want a proper charge process. I apologize that I don't have an answer to the main question on how to upgrade from NiCD to NiMH, as I considered it for a similar portable printer a few years back, but decided I was not willing to incur the risk for the usage I envisioned. My comment has more to do with the statements about NiCD batteries you made. Is there a size constraint that hinders finding new cells to use? I find brand new NiCD batteries of quite a few sizes all over, as many folks use them to re-pack portable tool batteries and other similar uses. I've repacked quite a few NICD containing systems (Old HP portable computer, camcorder, printers) with these new NiCDs, which all are smaller, have more storage capacity, and are brand new. If you decide to continue with NiCD and send cell dimensions, I'm happy to see what I can find that's new. Jim -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: unpleasant odor from VT100
Peter If you are still listening through the "on topic" noise - see below Martin >>I had something similar with a VT220. I didn't get around to investigating >>it before the flyback transformer failed :-( >>I can only suggest to run it for a short time with the cover off and the >>lights out while looking for any glows / >>discharges around the flyback >>transformer, the EHT cable, the EHT connector on the tube and the tube base >>connector. >>Regards, >>Peter Coghlan. >>Ps: Anyone got a flyback transformer for a VT220? I don't have a laid apart flyback transformer, but I could provide a VT220 of the YMMV kind. I'm in Dorset, UK, please reply off list. Best Regards Martin
[cctalk] Re: "Classic" RAM chips, #FREE, #RARE, #VINTAGE
> On 12/22/2022 5:56 AM CST Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: > > > > I have an assortment of old dynamic RAM chips: > 1M x 1 approx 35 > 256K x 4 approx 40 to 50 > 256K x 1 approx 80 to 100 > The RAM chips are all spoken for. I also have a selection of old PC CPUs ranging from 8088s and V20 compatible to early Pentium and compatibles (e.g. AMD K6) If anyone is interested contact me off list. I have about 15 total. I can do a quick inventory if anyone is interested. Will
[cctalk] Re: "Classic" RAM chips, #FREE, #RARE, #VINTAGE
Aw shoot, sorry that went to the whole list C
[cctalk] Re: "Classic" RAM chips, #FREE, #RARE, #VINTAGE
Hi Will! I could use some 256x1 chips to upgrade and fix a pdp11/23+, 40 or so would do it. US address, we could do a quick paypal for the shipping. Chris On 12/22/2022 6:56 AM, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: I think my original message didn't go through (forgot to select plain text instead of html.) If it did I apologize for spamming the list. I'm clearing out some clutter so I can get to some more clutter to clear it out. Much of my clutter is classic computer related (at least by my definition.) But it needs to go. I have an assortment of old dynamic RAM chips: 1M x 1 approx 35 256K x 4 approx 40 to 50 256K x 1 approx 80 to 100 They are various speeds, mostly between 100ns and 150 ns If anyone wants them, let me know. You pay shipping. Otherwise they go to the landfill. You can contact me off-list. Will I do not think you can name many great inventions that have been made by married men. Nikola Tesla
[cctalk] "Classic" RAM chips, #FREE, #RARE, #VINTAGE
I think my original message didn't go through (forgot to select plain text instead of html.) If it did I apologize for spamming the list. I'm clearing out some clutter so I can get to some more clutter to clear it out. Much of my clutter is classic computer related (at least by my definition.) But it needs to go. I have an assortment of old dynamic RAM chips: 1M x 1 approx 35 256K x 4 approx 40 to 50 256K x 1 approx 80 to 100 They are various speeds, mostly between 100ns and 150 ns If anyone wants them, let me know. You pay shipping. Otherwise they go to the landfill. You can contact me off-list. Will I do not think you can name many great inventions that have been made by married men. Nikola Tesla
[cctalk] Re: DLV11 M7940 SLU header wire colours?
Steve You will find some additional write up of the DLV11J (M9740) in LSI11SeytemsServiceManualAug81.pdf page no ~270 et seq see e.g. https://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp11/LSI-11_Systems_Service_Manual_Aug81.pdf However, additional enlightenment is limited to the cab kit and MP part numbers, e.g. BC05C; which may yeild wire colours. As the M - E link is a ground strap to the differential receiver I would incline to using black wire (cf gnd line). I must have seen a genuine DLV11J cab kit about 40 years ago. However, I can recollect nothing but home brew substitutes / replacements thereafter; the color code being driven by the colors of stock 3-core cable. FWIW VanDamme audio cable makes nice 232 cables (very flexible), drain as ground : e.g. https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/audio-cable/3658775 Finally, I shall relate a tale I was told in a bar. Once upon a time some a lady museum conservator was fussing over matching the paint color on Glen Douglas' tender https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/62469-glen-douglas-nbr-256-lner-9256-lner-2469-br-62469/ An unkind soul pointed out that the paint she wanted to match was from the 1959 refit, and that the old mens paint could easily have been a different hue. Personaly, I would fuss over using the correct gauge of wire / crimps / housing and just make a note of the color scheme. HtH; Martin -Original Message- From: Steve Malikoff via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: 22 December 2022 03:16 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: ste...@malikoff.com Subject: [cctalk] DLV11 M7940 SLU header wire colours? Sorry this post isn't about whether something is regarded as classic or not. I am almost done putting together a little 4-card Qbus machine using a H9281-BA card frame. Eschewing a piece of plywood, the frame, power supply, fans, Heeltoe POR board are all mounted on a clear acrylic A4-sized office 'In Tray' I picked up at a recycling centre. Hence I've named it PERSPEX-11 :) So.. For a DLV11 EIA serial connection, I am about to wire up a fly lead cable to go from an M7940 SLU (no dash version) 40-pin header to a DB25P. After finding the pinout on page 178 in the 1980 Interfaces Handbook, on header J1 I know only need the usual basic RS232 setup: J - Received Data F - Transmitted Data B - Signal Ground M to E loopback I have a blank 40-pin header shell and a pile of DuPont leads of all colours ready to slot into their respective locations in the header. I could use any colours but I'd really like to use the original colours for the above wires. So, the only wire colour reference in the handbook is for a J1 and J2 header DRV11 pinout on page 275. Pin B is Black, and Transmit is Red but Pin J Receive is marked as Orange/Ground, for that device. Also M and E don't have their colours specified for the loopback wire. I've also looked at the Gunkies 'DEC asynchronous serial line pinout' page which has the pinout but it doesn't mention the original wire colours sadly. Could someone point me to what colours the M7940 cable should be? Thanks for any help, Steve.
[cctalk] Replacing NiCd with NiMH in a pro way.
Hey everyone, No - I won't ask if this is on topic or not :) I'm currently reparing an ALPS plotter ( a Tandy "ce 150" equivalent ) and it's not the first time I face the same problem ; how to replace NiCD batteries. In the past what I did is actually order new NiCd ( you can still find them here in Europe, well actually out of europe but in eastern countries close to europe ) However they are at best NOS nowadays, that does "work" enough for moderate use (I've done that on vintage laptops) This time I'd like to go a bit beyond that and replace the NiCd with modern NiMH (the plotter coils and motors will benefit the extra power) However the trickle chagre of NiCd applied to NiMH will either kill my batteries or kill me in a house fire. I see small $1 NiMH 5S charging boards on Aliexpress, I thought I might use that, try to shove it it the CE150 (or other devcies with the same problem) TL-DR : Before I re invent the wheel here ; Has anyone developed a proper way to replace NiCd with N iMH in vintage (mostly portable) equipment ? And I mean not simply swapping the batteries, I don't want that, I want a proper charge process.
