date:20200721

i've seen a few in photos both 35 and 40'. But, not too many.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 4:50 PM Graham Collins via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Some 35s have anchor windlasses!  I'm running 65 ft of chain and a 30 lb
> Rocna, I'm not interested in hauling that up by hand...  One of the best
> boat modifications I've done.
>
> best,
>
> Graham Collins
> Secret Plans
> C 35-III #11
>
> On 2020-07-21 3:37 p.m., Donald Kern via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Jeff
> No capstan on the 35'.  We carry two anchors on Fireball, both Danforths;
> a small <20 lb and a heavy >35 lb.  Both we store vertically in the cockpit
> side locker.  The small one we uses for anchoring at lunch time where we
> are with the boat or racing when the wind dies and we sneak it over the
> side amidships so we can go thru the fleet at a couple knots in an adverse
> current.  The larger anchored is used for overnight and has 20 ft of chain,
> whereas the rode for the light anchor is a  nylon line only.  We carry two
> 200 ft 3 strand nylon rodes in the bow locker.
> Don
>
> On 7/21/2020 1:38 PM, Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List wrote:
>
> Thanks Joe,
>
> My wife and I have noticed this as well. Most, but not all, examples have
> no windlass and we do like to anchor in bays for lunch now and then and
> we've explored options to add a windlass even if it's just manual.
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:50 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Another thing you may not have thought of coming from a 23 foot boat:
>> Ground tackle. It is bigger, heavier, more expensive – by FAR – and IMHO
>> the 40 is on the ragged edge of what one can deal with without a windlass,
>> which is also not a cheap thing.
>>
>> J
>> 
>>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions- now Autopilot

2020-07-21 Thread David Risch via CnC-List

My concern is that most of the forklift operators/yards only work with power 
boats with the majority of the weight (engine) near the forklift itself.  
Unless he can show you hard evidence of moving around displacement sailboats 
when that is not the case…I would be skeptical.

David F. Risch
Managing Director
Great Benefits USA
401-419-4650 - Direct Line
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download=1iPWGeVIdWdypHSMZPtJX0mxirxyZ4ZBN=0B9uSW32EcB8tZGxlWW1OMlJ6MXU0bmVaaFByQmlSVDMrOWNVPQ]
www.greatbenefitsusa.com

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From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Stephen Thorne via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 2:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Stephen Thorne 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions- now Autopilot

Folks,

I asked a question a few weeks ago and not sure if I got an answer back from 
the group. So here goes again (and if I missed your reply ... appologies)

Has anyone had experience with a yard lifting a C with one of those large 
marine folk lifts?  A marina in Florida has a fork lift with 20' long forks 
which they say they can use to lift DejaVu' (34+) by attaching foam blocks on 
each fork arm to cradle the hull during the lift.  This is a 50,000 lb fork and 
they lift 25,000 lb power boats routinely.  DejaVu' weighs approx 13,500 lbs 
with gear & fluids.  My plan would be to leave DejaVu' rigged and dry sail her.

Thank You


Stephen Thorne
C 34+ DejaVu'
770.722.2848



On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:29 PM David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
I am with Joe that I consider my boat broken if the autopilot is not working.  
With that in mind, I wanted to pass on a tidbit I learned about my wheelpilot 
(EV-100 Raymarine).  It worked flawlessly for 4 years and then last year 
started having the clutch handle release frequently.  I rebuilt it last winter 
(cleaned inside, new drive belt) and it was better for a short time and then 
started doing the same thing.  I found many people online with the same 
complaint (most use a bungie cord to hold it in place) and finally buried deep 
in a Raymarine forum post, I found a Raymarine tech suggesting lubricating the 
drive pulleys where the rubber belts went over them.  I had never heard of this 
before, but tried it and it immediately fixed the problem.  Not 100%, but much 
much better.  It seems that when the drive belt rotates the wheel, it is 
running over the two smaller guide wheels with rubber belts on top on either 
side of the motor.  One of those is associated with the clutch mechanism.  If 
those guides and belts do not rotate freely, it puts tension on the clutch 
lever causing it to release.  So you use waterproof grease on the inside of the 
black belt (between it and the white plastic guide) to make sure they rotate 
freely.  I can post a diagram if it helps.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT

[cid:image001.png@01D65F84.71363CB0]


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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions- now Autopilot

Hi Stephen,
This is the first time seeing your request.

Fork Lifts are fine for flat bottom boats.  I'd be skeptical about letting them 
pick up a round hull sailboat.  I'd be afraid of point loading somewhere on the 
hull.  The forktruck has to remain clear of your transom so the tips of the 
forks will probably not reach as far as the mast.  They will catch the majority 
of boat weight; keel, engine, tankage, and the CG of the hull is several feet 
below where the keel meets the hull and further from where the forks contact 
but I'm not convinced I'd trust them to handle the boat repeatedly.  The other 
inconvenience to this service is scheduling the service and waiting in cue on 
good days and working around their schedule and tipping the handlers.   I don't 
like it.

If they are doing this regularly, try to get a video and share.

Thanks,
Chuck

> On 07/21/2020 2:55 PM Stephen Thorne via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I asked a question a few weeks ago and not sure if I got an answer back 
> from the group. So here goes again (and if I missed your reply ... appologies)
> 
> Has anyone had experience with a yard lifting a C with one of those 
> large marine folk lifts?  A marina in Florida has a fork lift with 20' long 
> forks which they say they can use to lift DejaVu' (34+) by attaching foam 
> blocks on each fork arm to cradle the hull during the lift.  This is a 50,000 
> lb fork and they lift 25,000 lb power boats routinely.  DejaVu' weighs approx 
> 13,500 lbs with gear & fluids.  My plan would be to leave DejaVu' rigged and 
> dry sail her.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> 
> Stephen Thorne
> C 34+ DejaVu'
> 770.722.2848
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:29 PM David Knecht via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote:
> 
> > > I am with Joe that I consider my boat broken if the 
> autopilot is not working.  With that in mind, I wanted to pass on a tidbit I 
> learned about my wheelpilot (EV-100 Raymarine).  It worked flawlessly for 4 
> years and then last year started having the clutch handle release frequently. 
>  I rebuilt it last winter (cleaned inside, new drive belt) and it was better 
> for a short time and then started doing the same thing.  I found many people 
> online with the same complaint (most use a bungie cord to hold it in place) 
> and finally buried deep in a Raymarine forum post, I found a Raymarine tech 
> suggesting lubricating the drive pulleys where the rubber belts went over 
> them.  I had never heard of this before, but tried it and it immediately 
> fixed the problem.  Not 100%, but much much better.  It seems that when the 
> drive belt rotates the wheel, it is running over the two smaller guide wheels 
> with rubber belts on top on either side of the motor.  One of those is 
> associated with the clutch mechanism.  If those guides and belts do not 
> rotate freely, it puts tension on the clutch lever causing it to release.  So 
> you use waterproof grease on the inside of the black belt (between it and the 
> white plastic guide) to make sure they rotate freely.  I can post a diagram 
> if it helps.  Dave
> > 
> > S/V Aries
> > 1990 C 34+
> > New London, CT
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > 
> > Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  
> > Each and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list 
> > - use PayPal to send contribution --https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> > 
> > 
> > > ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Bailey White via CnC-List

I love reading all the experiences of buying boats and upkeep.  I'm envious
of the rumble and power I can imagine from sailing the 37+'s, 40s, and the
like out in great lakes or big seas.  I've done a lot of offshore sailing
and there is nothing like  it.  I'm also thankful for my current setup.

I have a 1979 C 36.  As a member of Lake Lanier Sailing Club, I enjoy
really good dock rates (less than $1600 a year), year around sailing, and
the ease of fresh water.  I have a scuba tank and regularly dive the hull
to clean it without much abrasion and keep an eye on things.  It's pretty
easy to single hand and most of the time it is just two on board.

Having had about 10 boats in the past, I knew to get one that was well
kept.  The boat I have had for two years now has taken little maintenance
money in relative terms for a boat.  I have purchased a new marine A/C unit
and water pump and two AGM batteries as really the only big items.  I've
spent probably $1k on the motor, working through a reversing gear issue
that is finally solved.  Otherwise, it's been some glues, sealants,
lubricants, LEDs, a halyard, a foot sink pump, wiring, etc and lots of
labor to get it kinda nice.  Budget time as much as money, both to learn
the systems and to improve them.  Even knowing what to ask for takes time
to figure out, but I like spending my time on it.

Still many things to do, but happy with the boat.  I have looked at other
boats and considered getting something newer.  A newer boat would have a
rear stateroom, but the nice large main salon area would get quite a bit
smaller.  Either set up is good.

I have concluded that thus far it's better to keep making this one more
like I want it.  I also checked out a 41 footer that I thought would be the
perfect next step but quickly realized what many listers have said -- that
size range is a different game.  For me, because we spend so much time on
the boat, I wish we had more storage to keep all the toys and gear out of
site but I haven't been able to figure out what size of boat could hide a
SUP board, kayak, etc except a *much* larger keelboat or catamaran.

Planning to spend the next boat bucks on a new 155% most likely.

Bailey White
C 36
Atlanta, GA
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Graham Collins via CnC-List

Some 35s have anchor windlasses!  I'm running 65 ft of chain and a 30 lb 
Rocna, I'm not interested in hauling that up by hand... One of the best 
boat modifications I've done.


best,

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C 35-III #11

On 2020-07-21 3:37 p.m., Donald Kern via CnC-List wrote:

Jeff
No capstan on the 35'.  We carry two anchors on Fireball, both 
Danforths; a small <20 lb and a heavy >35 lb.  Both we store 
vertically in the cockpit side locker.  The small one we uses for 
anchoring at lunch time where we are with the boat or racing when the 
wind dies and we sneak it over the side amidships so we can go thru 
the fleet at a couple knots in an adverse current.  The larger 
anchored is used for overnight and has 20 ft of chain, whereas the 
rode for the light anchor is a  nylon line only.  We carry two 200 ft 
3 strand nylon rodes in the bow locker.

Don

On 7/21/2020 1:38 PM, Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List wrote:

Thanks Joe,

My wife and I have noticed this as well. Most, but not all, examples 
have no windlass and we do like to anchor in bays for lunch now and 
then and we've explored options to add a windlass even if it's just 
manual.


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:50 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Another thing you may not have thought of coming from a 23 foot
boat: Ground tackle. It is bigger, heavier, more expensive – by
FAR – and IMHO the 40 is on the ragged edge of what one can deal
with without a windlass, which is also not a cheap thing.

J






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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Hi Bill,

That would be fun, but we are both working full time at this point and
can't take that much time off.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 3:27 PM Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Don’t rule out cruising the Canals.
>
> Did that a couple years ago, it was a blast.
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> Erie PA
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey
> Brideau via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 2:03 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Jeffrey Brideau
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> One of the boats we are looking at is in Lake Champlain and would need
> trucking. If we find a boat we can sail home it saves a lot of cash and
> would certainly be a lot more fun, or "exciting"...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:52 PM Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Don’t right off transporting a boat overland. From Lake Ontario or Lake
> Erie, the cost should not exceed $5-6k and can be much less if you are
> lucky enough to catch an empty run. For a freshwater boat, it might be
> worth it.
>
>
>
> I bought my current boat (smaller, mind you) over 2000 km from home and
> had it transported for under $3k. Your distance is half that.
>
>
>
> Marek
>
>
>
> 1994 c270 “Legato”
>
> Ottawa, ON
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List
> *Sent:* 21 July, 2020 13:44
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Jeffrey Brideau 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> Thanks Matt,
>
>
>
> Erie is a bit too far for a practical transport to Maine/NH.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:18 PM Matt Wolford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff:
>
>
>
> Following up on what John said, the same vintage 36 is a
> fine boat, is a little bigger than the 34 (very similar), is likely
> adequately sized for your family at this time, and will not be quite so
> eye-opening on many of the issues described so far for making the jump to a
> 40 footer.  Coming from a much smaller boat, you may find this size to be a
> more suitable for a move up.  I have a friend in Erie who may be interested
> in selling his (fresh water boat, at least for the past decade or so) if
> you think this might be an option.  His boat has been underused but
> maintained during his tenure.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *John
> McCrea via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:35 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* John McCrea 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The
> 40 was just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much
>  more expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9
> years from big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years
> ago bought our 1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and
> occasional weekend with guests. Best of luck!
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Bill Coleman via CnC-List

Don’t rule out cruising the Canals.

Did that a couple years ago, it was a blast.

 

Bill Coleman

Erie PA

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey 
Brideau via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 2:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeffrey Brideau
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

 

One of the boats we are looking at is in Lake Champlain and would need 
trucking. If we find a boat we can sail home it saves a lot of cash and would 
certainly be a lot more fun, or "exciting"...

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:52 PM Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Don’t right off transporting a boat overland. From Lake Ontario or Lake Erie, 
the cost should not exceed $5-6k and can be much less if you are lucky enough 
to catch an empty run. For a freshwater boat, it might be worth it.

 

I bought my current boat (smaller, mind you) over 2000 km from home and had it 
transported for under $3k. Your distance is half that.

 

Marek

 

1994 c270 “Legato”

Ottawa, ON

 

 

 

From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List
Sent: 21 July, 2020 13:44
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeffrey Brideau 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

 

Thanks Matt,

 

Erie is a bit too far for a practical transport to Maine/NH. 

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:18 PM Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Jeff:

 

Following up on what John said, the same vintage 36 is a fine 
boat, is a little bigger than the 34 (very similar), is likely adequately sized 
for your family at this time, and will not be quite so eye-opening on many of 
the issues described so far for making the jump to a 40 footer.  Coming from a 
much smaller boat, you may find this size to be a more suitable for a move up.  
I have a friend in Erie who may be interested in selling his (fresh water boat, 
at least for the past decade or so) if you think this might be an option.  His 
boat has been underused but maintained during his tenure.

 

Matt

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of John McCrea via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:35 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John McCrea 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

 

We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The 40 was 
just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much  more 
expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9 years from 
big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years ago bought our 
1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and occasional weekend 
with guests. Best of luck!

 

 

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions- now Autopilot

2020-07-21 Thread Matt Wolford via CnC-List

I believe a few listers responded.  I was not one of them as my yard does not 
have the type of forklift you described. 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Stephen Thorne via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 2:55 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Stephen Thorne 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions- now Autopilot

Folks,

I asked a question a few weeks ago and not sure if I got an answer back from 
the group. So here goes again (and if I missed your reply ... appologies)

Has anyone had experience with a yard lifting a C with one of those large 
marine folk lifts?  A marina in Florida has a fork lift with 20' long forks 
which they say they can use to lift DejaVu' (34+) by attaching foam blocks on 
each fork arm to cradle the hull during the lift.  This is a 50,000 lb fork and 
they lift 25,000 lb power boats routinely.  DejaVu' weighs approx 13,500 lbs 
with gear & fluids.  My plan would be to leave DejaVu' rigged and dry sail her.

Thank You

Stephen Thorne

C 34+ DejaVu'

770.722.2848

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:29 PM David Knecht via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I am with Joe that I consider my boat broken if the autopilot is not working.  
With that in mind, I wanted to pass on a tidbit I learned about my wheelpilot 
(EV-100 Raymarine).  It worked flawlessly for 4 years and then last year 
started having the clutch handle release frequently.  I rebuilt it last winter 
(cleaned inside, new drive belt) and it was better for a short time and then 
started doing the same thing.  I found many people online with the same 
complaint (most use a bungie cord to hold it in place) and finally buried deep 
in a Raymarine forum post, I found a Raymarine tech suggesting lubricating the 
drive pulleys where the rubber belts went over them.  I had never heard of this 
before, but tried it and it immediately fixed the problem.  Not 100%, but much 
much better.  It seems that when the drive belt rotates the wheel, it is 
running over the two smaller guide wheels with rubber belts on top on either 
side of the motor.  One of those is associated with the clutch mechanism.  If 
those guides and belts do not rotate freely, it puts tension on the clutch 
lever causing it to release.  So you use waterproof grease on the inside of the 
black belt (between it and the white plastic guide) to make sure they rotate 
freely.  I can post a diagram if it helps.  Dave

S/V Aries

1990 C 34+

New London, CT

___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions- now Autopilot

2020-07-21 Thread Stephen Thorne via CnC-List

Folks,

I asked a question a few weeks ago and not sure if I got an answer back
from the group. So here goes again (and if I missed your reply ...
appologies)

Has anyone had experience with a yard lifting a C with one of those large
marine folk lifts?  A marina in Florida has a fork lift with 20' long forks
which they say they can use to lift DejaVu' (34+) by attaching foam blocks
on each fork arm to cradle the hull during the lift.  This is a 50,000 lb
fork and they lift 25,000 lb power boats routinely.  DejaVu' weighs approx
13,500 lbs with gear & fluids.  My plan would be to leave DejaVu' rigged
and dry sail her.

Thank You

Stephen Thorne
C 34+ DejaVu'
770.722.2848

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:29 PM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I am with Joe that I consider my boat broken if the autopilot is not
> working.  With that in mind, I wanted to pass on a tidbit I learned about
> my wheelpilot (EV-100 Raymarine).  It worked flawlessly for 4 years and
> then last year started having the clutch handle release frequently.  I
> rebuilt it last winter (cleaned inside, new drive belt) and it was better
> for a short time and then started doing the same thing.  I found many
> people online with the same complaint (most use a bungie cord to hold it in
> place) and finally buried deep in a Raymarine forum post, I found a
> Raymarine tech suggesting lubricating the drive pulleys where the rubber
> belts went over them.  I had never heard of this before, but tried it and
> it immediately fixed the problem.  Not 100%, but much much better.  It
> seems that when the drive belt rotates the wheel, it is running over the
> two smaller guide wheels with rubber belts on top on either side of the
> motor.  One of those is associated with the clutch mechanism.  If those
> guides and belts do not rotate freely, it puts tension on the clutch lever
> causing it to release.  So you use waterproof grease on the inside of the
> black belt (between it and the white plastic guide) to make sure they
> rotate freely.  I can post a diagram if it helps.  Dave
>
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Richard Bush via CnC-List

 
 Jeff, you noted that "Erie is a bit too far for a practical transport to 
Maine/NH".  Au contraire my friend! I purchased my 37 from Newburyport Conn. 
and had it trucked to Louisville, KY; well worth the money!  I was even able to 
follow the trip progress and met the boat as it came down the highway!

Richard
 s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 584;

Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
-Original Message-
From: Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeffrey Brideau 
Sent: Tue, Jul 21, 2020 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Matt,
Erie is a bit too far for a practical transport to Maine/NH. 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread John Conklin via CnC-List

A nice 34/36 ( Windsong) from MI just  showed up  here in oriental its a nice 
ride for sure! I have also been on tht model and would stongly conside the 35MK 
and the 34 even the 32 for a sport cruiser? after being around this site for a 
while He Paid/stole it for $25k  and shipped to NC have bot seen sails but in 
overall about average condition
My 1982 C 37 standard fixed keel was listed at $39k ( I am in sales ;) ) with 
like new sails and canvas to rookie me the big ticket items.  I had bought the 
boat in my mind before i even walked off or new of the depth of knowledge on 
this forum ! Reason #1 affordable,  #2 I fit very comfortable below with no 
neck tilting ! Still had original manuals and brochures very well kept
I love the old brochure Brawn and Beauty!
Although I had some sailing exp on a hunter 33 - 38- 46  (bought dur to admiral 
and raced !) This was my first boat over 16 ft also ! Needless to say i learned 
alot. Quick
I  bought my slip cash and dropped a quick $5k on bottome paint and a few misc 
items before even launching (i just bought paint for DIY this time)
Fast forward 3 years ... I Love this boat as mentioned it will take whatever i 
throw at it I could drop $50k tomorrow new standing rigging, linear drive Auto 
pilot, topside paint  new eltronics to name a few .. but , and all systems work 
lerfect ( including the A/C :) and we still sail 3x!  a week . As a an added 
bonus We have also won most every race, which was totally new to rookie me. As 
mentioned she is great in light air ! And although winch placement is not Ideal 
I often go out Solo and love it! sometimes headsail only and sometimes full 
sail in anything from 8-25 knts she is totally managable and tracks like a 
dream. I only use autopilor to drop the main. Nuff said here. Gotta go sailing !
Get a boat and get a nice well maintained C  you wont regret it !

John Conklin
S/V Halcyon
www.flirtingwithfire.net


On Jul 21, 2020, at 1:25 PM, Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Thanks Rob,

I suspect the 34/36 is going to out of our price range as they don't show up in 
our search criteria. Is yours the later model 34/36 or the 70's era 34?

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM Rob Ball via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
The ‘basic’ waterline of the 40 and the 34/36 are almost identical, so the hull 
speeds match . . . .

Which is why the newer boat sails in the same speed range . . . .

Cheers,  Rob Ball
C 34

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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions


Jeff
No capstan on the 35'.  We carry two anchors on Fireball, both 
Danforths; a small <20 lb and a heavy >35 lb.  Both we store vertically 
in the cockpit side locker.  The small one we uses for anchoring at 
lunch time where we are with the boat or racing when the wind dies and 
we sneak it over the side amidships so we can go thru the fleet at a 
couple knots in an adverse current.  The larger anchored is used for 
overnight and has 20 ft of chain, whereas the rode for the light anchor 
is a  nylon line only.  We carry two 200 ft 3 strand nylon rodes in the 
bow locker.

Don

On 7/21/2020 1:38 PM, Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List wrote:

Thanks Joe,

My wife and I have noticed this as well. Most, but not all, examples 
have no windlass and we do like to anchor in bays for lunch now and 
then and we've explored options to add a windlass even if it's just 
manual.


On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:50 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Another thing you may not have thought of coming from a 23 foot
boat: Ground tackle. It is bigger, heavier, more expensive – by
FAR – and IMHO the 40 is on the ragged edge of what one can deal
with without a windlass, which is also not a cheap thing.

J





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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List

Much more fun, for sure, but not that much less in cost (if it is far enough). 
I always say that a sailboat travels at a speed of a good walker (maybe a slow 
runner). If you have any distance to cover, it takes a lot of time.

Marek

From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List
Sent: 21 July, 2020 14:03
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeffrey Brideau 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

One of the boats we are looking at is in Lake Champlain and would need 
trucking. If we find a boat we can sail home it saves a lot of cash and would 
certainly be a lot more fun, or "exciting"...

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:52 PM Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Don’t right off transporting a boat overland. From Lake Ontario or Lake Erie, 
the cost should not exceed $5-6k and can be much less if you are lucky enough 
to catch an empty run. For a freshwater boat, it might be worth it.

I bought my current boat (smaller, mind you) over 2000 km from home and had it 
transported for under $3k. Your distance is half that.

Marek

1994 c270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON

From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List
Sent: 21 July, 2020 13:44
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeffrey Brideau mailto:bride...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Matt,

Erie is a bit too far for a practical transport to Maine/NH.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:18 PM Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Jeff:

Following up on what John said, the same vintage 36 is a fine 
boat, is a little bigger than the 34 (very similar), is likely adequately sized 
for your family at this time, and will not be quite so eye-opening on many of 
the issues described so far for making the jump to a 40 footer.  Coming from a 
much smaller boat, you may find this size to be a more suitable for a move up.  
I have a friend in Erie who may be interested in selling his (fresh water boat, 
at least for the past decade or so) if you think this might be an option.  His 
boat has been underused but maintained during his tenure.

Matt

From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of John McCrea via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:35 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John McCrea mailto:johnmcc...@comcast.net>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The 40 was 
just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much  more 
expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9 years from 
big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years ago bought our 
1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and occasional weekend 
with guests. Best of luck!

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions- now Autopilot

2020-07-21 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List

I am with Joe that I consider my boat broken if the autopilot is not working.  
With that in mind, I wanted to pass on a tidbit I learned about my wheelpilot 
(EV-100 Raymarine).  It worked flawlessly for 4 years and then last year 
started having the clutch handle release frequently.  I rebuilt it last winter 
(cleaned inside, new drive belt) and it was better for a short time and then 
started doing the same thing.  I found many people online with the same 
complaint (most use a bungie cord to hold it in place) and finally buried deep 
in a Raymarine forum post, I found a Raymarine tech suggesting lubricating the 
drive pulleys where the rubber belts went over them.  I had never heard of this 
before, but tried it and it immediately fixed the problem.  Not 100%, but much 
much better.  It seems that when the drive belt rotates the wheel, it is 
running over the two smaller guide wheels with rubber belts on top on either 
side of the motor.  One of those is associated with the clutch mechanism.  If 
those guides and belts do not rotate freely, it puts tension on the clutch 
lever causing it to release.  So you use waterproof grease on the inside of the 
black belt (between it and the white plastic guide) to make sure they rotate 
freely.  I can post a diagram if it helps.  Dave

S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT




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Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-21 Thread Rod Stright via CnC-List

Yes hull #1 was called Rabbit and was basically a stripped out boat that they 
added a long retractable sprit to and a 54” wheel.  The boat was sold and now 
has an interior.

 

Rod Stright



President

C 99 Class Association

Halifax

Nova Scotia

 

 

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike via 
CnC-List
Sent: July-21-20 2:17 PM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com' 
Cc: Hoyt, Mike 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

 

I think Hull #1 had been modified to do that at some point.  The regular C 99 
comes with symmetric 200% spinnaker and J+1 pole.  A number have since been 
modified to add a small fixed sprit which has total sprit length no longer than 
Spinnaker pole length.  The four racing here (Halifax) do not use the 
sprit/asym a lot.

 

The 99 is a very nice boat

 

Mike Hoyt
Persistence

Halifax

 

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > On Behalf Of David Knecht via CnC-List
Sent: July 21, 2020 2:13 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> >
Cc: David Knecht mailto:davidakne...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

 

Hi Chuck- I looked at a C 99 when I was buying my boat and it had an integral 
extending pole for an A sail.  I presumed that was standard on the 99, but the 
one in your video doesn’t have one.  Did some have them or was the one I looked 
at modified?  Dave

 

Dr. David Knecht

Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology 

University of Connecticut 

91 N. Eagleville Rd.

U-3125

Storrs, CT 06269-3125

 

 

 

On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:48 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

 

Hi Don, 

I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
different boats so close together.  The essence of racing. 

 

Chuck   

On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: 

 

 

Chuck, 
Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat thru 
the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and the 
bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted water or 
closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking downwind.  
Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the wood 
and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had no 
engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum sponsor 
the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year of Offshore 
Training because of CORVID 19). 

Beat Army !! 
  
Don Kern 
Fireball C Mk2 
Bristol, RI 

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: 

I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a steady 
high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and have low wind 
predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest model C that still 
has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls 
move first as the wind builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until 
the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat 
than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has 
standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail 
to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline 
boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we 
sail in, the lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  
Check out this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 
footers in a race. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go 

 

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
(removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft berth 
and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger sister, the 
37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an improvement over it.  

Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com   

  

 

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md 

 

   

On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List   
 wrote: 

 

 

Welcome Jeff, 

 

Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat compared to 
a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is bigger, heavier 
and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated to sail - does it 
have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have 
running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for 
long passages, but we tend

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Hi Matt,

Yup, the 40 is 60% larger than the 35-3. It is not lost on us. We literally
go back-and-forth on the size daily and the trade-offs associated.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 2:04 PM Matt Wolford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Understandable.  That said, bigger boats have been transported by truck
> (including mine).  Another friend of mine just shipped his Hinckley 42 to
> Annapolis by truck.
>
>
>
> Also, I noted after I sent my earlier note that one of your concerns is
> being out in rougher weather.  Again FWIW, the main reason I moved up to a
> 42 from my previous 34 was precisely this.  I was coming across Lake Erie
> about 12 years ago with two other boats on a father-son weekend when the
> weather got really nasty.  We had four on our boat (me, one of my boys, and
> a friend and his son), and it was miserable.  The two boats we were
> traveling with were both 42s (the above-referenced Hinckley and a Beneteau
> 42 First).  The 42s were clearly having less difficulty and sailed away
> from us.  I looked at my friend through the horizontal rain, both kids
> throwing up, and reminiscent of Chief Brody said “I gotta get a bigger
> boat.”  A 42 Custom went on the market the following year, and the rest is
> history.  Compared to the 34, it is twice as much boat (literally) and a
> lot more work.  But I do feel safer in big Lake Erie seas.
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey
> Brideau via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 1:44 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Jeffrey Brideau 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> Thanks Matt,
>
>
>
> Erie is a bit too far for a practical transport to Maine/NH.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:18 PM Matt Wolford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff:
>
>
>
> Following up on what John said, the same vintage 36 is a
> fine boat, is a little bigger than the 34 (very similar), is likely
> adequately sized for your family at this time, and will not be quite so
> eye-opening on many of the issues described so far for making the jump to a
> 40 footer.  Coming from a much smaller boat, you may find this size to be a
> more suitable for a move up.  I have a friend in Erie who may be interested
> in selling his (fresh water boat, at least for the past decade or so) if
> you think this might be an option.  His boat has been underused but
> maintained during his tenure.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *John
> McCrea via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:35 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* John McCrea 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The
> 40 was just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much
>  more expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9
> years from big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years
> ago bought our 1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and
> occasional weekend with guests. Best of luck!
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Matt Wolford via CnC-List

Understandable.  That said, bigger boats have been transported by truck 
(including mine).  Another friend of mine just shipped his Hinckley 42 to 
Annapolis by truck.

 

Also, I noted after I sent my earlier note that one of your concerns is being 
out in rougher weather.  Again FWIW, the main reason I moved up to a 42 from my 
previous 34 was precisely this.  I was coming across Lake Erie about 12 years 
ago with two other boats on a father-son weekend when the weather got really 
nasty.  We had four on our boat (me, one of my boys, and a friend and his son), 
and it was miserable.  The two boats we were traveling with were both 42s (the 
above-referenced Hinckley and a Beneteau 42 First).  The 42s were clearly 
having less difficulty and sailed away from us.  I looked at my friend through 
the horizontal rain, both kids throwing up, and reminiscent of Chief Brody said 
“I gotta get a bigger boat.”  A 42 Custom went on the market the following 
year, and the rest is history.  Compared to the 34, it is twice as much boat 
(literally) and a lot more work.  But I do feel safer in big Lake Erie seas. 

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Jeffrey Brideau via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 1:44 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeffrey Brideau 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

 

Thanks Matt,

 

Erie is a bit too far for a practical transport to Maine/NH. 

 

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:18 PM Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

Jeff:

 

Following up on what John said, the same vintage 36 is a fine 
boat, is a little bigger than the 34 (very similar), is likely adequately sized 
for your family at this time, and will not be quite so eye-opening on many of 
the issues described so far for making the jump to a 40 footer.  Coming from a 
much smaller boat, you may find this size to be a more suitable for a move up.  
I have a friend in Erie who may be interested in selling his (fresh water boat, 
at least for the past decade or so) if you think this might be an option.  His 
boat has been underused but maintained during his tenure.

 

Matt

 

From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > On Behalf Of John McCrea via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:35 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Cc: John McCrea mailto:johnmcc...@comcast.net> >
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

 

We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The 40 was 
just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much  more 
expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9 years from 
big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years ago bought our 
1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and occasional weekend 
with guests. Best of luck!

 

 

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

One of the boats we are looking at is in Lake Champlain and would need
trucking. If we find a boat we can sail home it saves a lot of cash and
would certainly be a lot more fun, or "exciting"...

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:52 PM Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Don’t right off transporting a boat overland. From Lake Ontario or Lake
> Erie, the cost should not exceed $5-6k and can be much less if you are
> lucky enough to catch an empty run. For a freshwater boat, it might be
> worth it.
>
>
>
> I bought my current boat (smaller, mind you) over 2000 km from home and
> had it transported for under $3k. Your distance is half that.
>
>
>
> Marek
>
>
>
> 1994 c270 “Legato”
>
> Ottawa, ON
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List
> *Sent:* 21 July, 2020 13:44
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Jeffrey Brideau 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> Thanks Matt,
>
>
>
> Erie is a bit too far for a practical transport to Maine/NH.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:18 PM Matt Wolford via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Jeff:
>
>
>
> Following up on what John said, the same vintage 36 is a
> fine boat, is a little bigger than the 34 (very similar), is likely
> adequately sized for your family at this time, and will not be quite so
> eye-opening on many of the issues described so far for making the jump to a
> 40 footer.  Coming from a much smaller boat, you may find this size to be a
> more suitable for a move up.  I have a friend in Erie who may be interested
> in selling his (fresh water boat, at least for the past decade or so) if
> you think this might be an option.  His boat has been underused but
> maintained during his tenure.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *John
> McCrea via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:35 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* John McCrea 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The
> 40 was just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much
>  more expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9
> years from big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years
> ago bought our 1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and
> occasional weekend with guests. Best of luck!
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Stus-List Bay Area sailing items

2020-07-21 Thread Mazen Aziz via CnC-List

Hi all,

In the Bay Area and selling few items of anyone is interested. Here is the ad, 
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bpo/d/south-san-francisco-sails-spinnaker/7160697684.html

Thanks,



MAZEN AZIZ
https://mazenaziz.wixsite.com/mazenaziz

“To most people, the sky is the limit. To those who love aviation, the sky is 
home. “Jerry Crawford

"I don't think that architecture is only about shelter, is only about a very 
simple enclosure. It should be able to excite you, to calm you, to make you 
think." Zaha Hadid

"It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in 
your shoe." Muhammad Ali

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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

FYI – Our boat progression
Lightning – only survived half a hurricane, the eye passage was too much ☹
Varnished mahogany powerboat – was just an old boat back then, not yet cool.
Cal 20 – cramped for cruising with 4, but sailed quite well.
Sea Star 25 (heavy Alberg type, it survived a horrendous storm that killed the 
couple on a Bermuda 40 near us, was dog slow when no storms were in progress)
Columbia 26 – yuck, probably the worst boat of the bunch
Pearson 30 – was a rocket compared to all previous boats and brought home the 
silver.
Dickerson 36 wooden ketch – was not a rocket and did not win races
C 35 MK I – purchased in 1977. At that time it was like having a Ferrari when 
everyone else had a VW :D

Joe
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List

Don’t right off transporting a boat overland. From Lake Ontario or Lake Erie, 
the cost should not exceed $5-6k and can be much less if you are lucky enough 
to catch an empty run. For a freshwater boat, it might be worth it.

I bought my current boat (smaller, mind you) over 2000 km from home and had it 
transported for under $3k. Your distance is half that.

Marek

1994 c270 “Legato”
Ottawa, ON



From: CnC-List On Behalf Of Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List
Sent: 21 July, 2020 13:44
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeffrey Brideau 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Matt,

Erie is a bit too far for a practical transport to Maine/NH.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:18 PM Matt Wolford via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Jeff:

Following up on what John said, the same vintage 36 is a fine 
boat, is a little bigger than the 34 (very similar), is likely adequately sized 
for your family at this time, and will not be quite so eye-opening on many of 
the issues described so far for making the jump to a 40 footer.  Coming from a 
much smaller boat, you may find this size to be a more suitable for a move up.  
I have a friend in Erie who may be interested in selling his (fresh water boat, 
at least for the past decade or so) if you think this might be an option.  His 
boat has been underused but maintained during his tenure.

Matt

From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> On Behalf 
Of John McCrea via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:35 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John McCrea mailto:johnmcc...@comcast.net>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The 40 was 
just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much  more 
expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9 years from 
big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years ago bought our 
1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and occasional weekend 
with guests. Best of luck!


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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Hi Joe,

Indeed, I priced out the hydraulic systems and they are pushing 3-4k in
parts. $1500 for the ram alone.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:42 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> A wheel pilot is about $1500 and a DIY job. A hydraulic inboard autopilot
> is much more. The 40 is too much boat for the wheel pilot in some
> conditions, mainly off the wind with some seas running.
>
>
>
> J
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey
> Brideau via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 1:33 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Jeffrey Brideau 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> Great point Joe,
>
>
>
> That is a big item on the pro/con list for the two boats I linked for the
> list. The deep keel has it (if it works), and the CB model does not.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:12 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> What he said – you will either buy a boat with a furling jib and an
> autopilot or spend the $$$ to add them first thing. My boat is broke if the
> autopilot is broke ;)
>
>
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35  MK I*
>
> *www.dellabarba.com *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Donald
> Kern via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:36 AM
> *To:* Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
> *Cc:* Donald Kern 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> Jeff,
> A 40' is a big boat.  I own a 35' and have sailed and cruised 40' and 38'
> C  Unless the boat is set up for two you will be spending some money so
> it will be manageable by two.  Because I sail on Narragansett Bay the wind
> (except mid Jul to mid Aug) comes in every afternoon at 12 to 15 kts which
> my wife finds to be too "tippy" for her liking.  Thus, I cruise with her
> aboard with only my rollerfurl (140%), main not used. Because my boat was
> modified for SORC racing it has a short boom and with main only is under
> powered and unbalanced.
> I have done cruises from Long Island sound to Bar Harbor and use to live
> in Harpswell ME, so am quite familiar with the ares you would most likely.
> Biggest advice I can give you for ME is make sure you have a good GPS
> system with a display that is visible from the helm - FOG is prevalent.  My
> 35' draws a little over 6' (again modified for racing) and have found that
> almost all harbors and marinas are reachable except the very ends of the ME
> inlets at low tide - aay-yup.  I have had the boat for 40 years and had
> nine kids grow up with her. The boat handles six adults (racing), cruise a
> week comfortably with four adults or two adults and a group of children
> (amount dependent on childs' sizes).  The boat was bought in Burlington VT
> and trucked to Narragansett Bay and with a six foot draft did have low
> bridge restrictions.
> My best advice is take your wife out on a sail on a similar sized C to
> make sure she is comfortable with the power of these boats. Beneteaus,
> Catalinas  and Hunters do not count as similar!  If the Admiral is not
> happy on the boat, you will not be happy.
>
> Don Kern
> *Fireball*, C 35 Mk2
> Bristol RI
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Neil,

"Look for the boat that has the best "bones" that
you can use while doing all of the "improvement" and maintenance required."
Agreed, this has been the base of our strategy.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:24 PM schiller via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> I'll chime in on the step up.  Our first keel boat was a Southcoast 23
> (Carl Alberg design) that we decided was too small for us on Lake
> Michigan.  We went shopping for a 30 foot range (Catalina 30 was our
> target at the time) until I saw a Redwing 35 (C 35 Mark I) listed at
> the same range as we were targeting for the 30 range. Fell in love with
> the boat on first visit, but standing at the wheel looking at the bow I
> wasn't sure it was in the same zip code.  The boat had been stored
> indoor but had been neglected for years.  Our punch list was pretty big
> and the survey found several items that needed to be repaired
> immediately.  We bought it and sailed/motored it the 20 miles home from
> Holland, Michigan to South Haven, Michigan.  I absolutely envisioned a
> Forrest Gump docking on the first attempt.  I was absolutely and
> pleasantly surprised by the ease of getting her in.
>
> As everyone else has chimed in the expenses over the next 21 years was
> significant, but we had a comfortable and reliable boat. Unfortunately
> one of the survey items repaired (upper chainplate bulkhead) finally
> gave up in 15 knot winds and we lost the mast at the spreader (which is
> how Joe Della Barba got his sails).  In replacing it, we looked at
> bigger (C 39) and smaller (C 32) until we lucked out and found the
> C 35 Mark III that we have now.
>
> Your choices look good but do not underestimate the C 35-3. Plenty big
> enough for 6 adults.  Look for the boat that has the best "bones" that
> you can use while doing all of the "improvement" and maintenance required.
>
> Neil Schiller
> 1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
> Whitehall, Michigan
> WLYC
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Matt,

Erie is a bit too far for a practical transport to Maine/NH.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 1:18 PM Matt Wolford via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Jeff:
>
>
>
> Following up on what John said, the same vintage 36 is a
> fine boat, is a little bigger than the 34 (very similar), is likely
> adequately sized for your family at this time, and will not be quite so
> eye-opening on many of the issues described so far for making the jump to a
> 40 footer.  Coming from a much smaller boat, you may find this size to be a
> more suitable for a move up.  I have a friend in Erie who may be interested
> in selling his (fresh water boat, at least for the past decade or so) if
> you think this might be an option.  His boat has been underused but
> maintained during his tenure.
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *John
> McCrea via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:35 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* John McCrea 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The
> 40 was just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much
>  more expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9
> years from big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years
> ago bought our 1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and
> occasional weekend with guests. Best of luck!
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Peter,

We've long had eyes on boats like yours with a full cabin at rear but none
are showing up lately in our search criteria.  We too are also likely to do
most of our work ourselves. I'll keep you in mind.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:58 PM PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Jeff
>
> I was exactly in your spot 4-5 years ago when my family 4 kids moved from
> an oday 25  and a j24 to a C 40 Hull 190
>
>  I currently keep my 40  aft cabin version off the eastern prom and have
> done all the work on it myself through the  help and advice from  those on
> this list
>
> Best up grade thus far new rudder bearing and new brake for Edson wheel.
> Holds course well as I raise the sails usually solo. Since kids only like
> to get in during Wednesday nite cyc races or the weekend
>
> If you have any questions don’t hesitate to contact me
>
> Peter
> C 40 1983 aft cabin Goonie island
> 207-712-2938
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:50 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Another thing you may not have thought of coming from a 23 foot boat:
> Ground tackle. It is bigger, heavier, more expensive – by FAR – and IMHO
> the 40 is on the ragged edge of what one can deal with without a windlass,
> which is also not a cheap thing.
>
> J
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List [EXTERNAL] Re: New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

A wheel pilot is about $1500 and a DIY job. A hydraulic inboard autopilot is 
much more. The 40 is too much boat for the wheel pilot in some conditions, 
mainly off the wind with some seas running.

J

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey 
Brideau via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 1:33 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeffrey Brideau 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Great point Joe,

That is a big item on the pro/con list for the two boats I linked for the list. 
The deep keel has it (if it works), and the CB model does not.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:12 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
What he said – you will either buy a boat with a furling jib and an autopilot 
or spend the $$$ to add them first thing. My boat is broke if the autopilot is 
broke ;)

Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com

From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Donald Kern via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:36 AM
To: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Donald Kern mailto:don-k...@cox.net>>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Jeff,
A 40' is a big boat.  I own a 35' and have sailed and cruised 40' and 38' C 
 Unless the boat is set up for two you will be spending some money so it will 
be manageable by two.  Because I sail on Narragansett Bay the wind (except mid 
Jul to mid Aug) comes in every afternoon at 12 to 15 kts which my wife finds to 
be too "tippy" for her liking.  Thus, I cruise with her aboard with only my 
rollerfurl (140%), main not used. Because my boat was modified for SORC racing 
it has a short boom and with main only is under powered and unbalanced.
I have done cruises from Long Island sound to Bar Harbor and use to live in 
Harpswell ME, so am quite familiar with the ares you would most likely.  
Biggest advice I can give you for ME is make sure you have a good GPS system 
with a display that is visible from the helm - FOG is prevalent.  My 35' draws 
a little over 6' (again modified for racing) and have found that almost all 
harbors and marinas are reachable except the very ends of the ME inlets at low 
tide - aay-yup.  I have had the boat for 40 years and had nine kids grow up 
with her. The boat handles six adults (racing), cruise a week comfortably with 
four adults or two adults and a group of children (amount dependent on childs' 
sizes).  The boat was bought in Burlington VT and trucked to Narragansett Bay 
and with a six foot draft did have low bridge restrictions.
My best advice is take your wife out on a sail on a similar sized C to make 
sure she is comfortable with the power of these boats. Beneteaus, Catalinas  
and Hunters do not count as similar!  If the Admiral is not happy on the boat, 
you will not be happy.

Don Kern
Fireball, C 35 Mk2
Bristol RI
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Joe,

My wife and I have noticed this as well. Most, but not all, examples have
no windlass and we do like to anchor in bays for lunch now and then and
we've explored options to add a windlass even if it's just manual.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:50 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Another thing you may not have thought of coming from a 23 foot boat:
> Ground tackle. It is bigger, heavier, more expensive – by FAR – and IMHO
> the 40 is on the ragged edge of what one can deal with without a windlass,
> which is also not a cheap thing.
>
> J
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks John,

Our initial target has been a 35' boat as going larger puts us in a larger
slip category as well (more $). A 35 is not off the list, just exploring
all options.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:36 PM John McCrea via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The
> 40 was just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much
>  more expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9
> years from big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years
> ago bought our 1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and
> occasional weekend with guests. Best of luck!
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* David Risch 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:59 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> I have had a 40 for 16 years.
>
>
>
> Costs aside…
>
>
>
> She is very seaworthy (BMD and back 3 times in “stuff”).  Easily handled.
> Easily de-powered.  Incredibly maneuverable (forwards of backwards).
> Amazing in light air.  Sails rings around other boats with just a headsail
> (barely use the main on Buzzards Bay).
>
>
>
> And IMHO the prettiest profile (especially in Flag Blue).
>
>
>
> David F. Risch
>
> Managing Director
>
> Great Benefits USA
>
> 401-419-4650 - Direct Line
>
> www.greatbenefitsusa.com
> 
>
>
>
> *The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient
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> If you received this message by mistake, please reply to this message and
> follow with its deletion, so that we can ensure such a mistake does not
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>
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> Therefore, we have put efforts into ensuring that the message is error and
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>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Rob Ball
> via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:42 AM
> *To:* cenel...@aol.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Rob Ball 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> The C 51 was designed as a centerboarder from the start, and the board
> is full of lead.
>
>
>
> We did a hydraulic lift for that . . . . . a tackle arrangement so the
> cylinder moves about one quarter the distance needed to pull up the board.
>
>
>
> Rob Ball
>
> C 34
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Great point Joe,

That is a big item on the pro/con list for the two boats I linked for the
list. The deep keel has it (if it works), and the CB model does not.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 12:12 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> What he said – you will either buy a boat with a furling jib and an
> autopilot or spend the $$$ to add them first thing. My boat is broke if the
> autopilot is broke ;)
>
>
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35  MK I*
>
> *www.dellabarba.com *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Donald
> Kern via CnC-List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:36 AM
> *To:* Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
> *Cc:* Donald Kern 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> Jeff,
> A 40' is a big boat.  I own a 35' and have sailed and cruised 40' and 38'
> C  Unless the boat is set up for two you will be spending some money so
> it will be manageable by two.  Because I sail on Narragansett Bay the wind
> (except mid Jul to mid Aug) comes in every afternoon at 12 to 15 kts which
> my wife finds to be too "tippy" for her liking.  Thus, I cruise with her
> aboard with only my rollerfurl (140%), main not used. Because my boat was
> modified for SORC racing it has a short boom and with main only is under
> powered and unbalanced.
> I have done cruises from Long Island sound to Bar Harbor and use to live
> in Harpswell ME, so am quite familiar with the ares you would most likely.
> Biggest advice I can give you for ME is make sure you have a good GPS
> system with a display that is visible from the helm - FOG is prevalent.  My
> 35' draws a little over 6' (again modified for racing) and have found that
> almost all harbors and marinas are reachable except the very ends of the ME
> inlets at low tide - aay-yup.  I have had the boat for 40 years and had
> nine kids grow up with her. The boat handles six adults (racing), cruise a
> week comfortably with four adults or two adults and a group of children
> (amount dependent on childs' sizes).  The boat was bought in Burlington VT
> and trucked to Narragansett Bay and with a six foot draft did have low
> bridge restrictions.
> My best advice is take your wife out on a sail on a similar sized C to
> make sure she is comfortable with the power of these boats. Beneteaus,
> Catalinas  and Hunters do not count as similar!  If the Admiral is not
> happy on the boat, you will not be happy.
>
> Don Kern
> *Fireball*, C 35 Mk2
> Bristol RI
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Len,

We've been in discussion with a surveyor from the start. He's coached me to
carry a moisture meter with me on our visits and to call him when we have
narrowed it down.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:57 AM Len Mitchell via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Welcome Jeff,
> Looks like you are getting lots of replies. Folks have been sailing with a
> family of 4 in all sizes of boats. We went 25-36-40 and bigger is more
> comfortable for sure. My advice would be buy a C! Best condition, newest
> and most comfortable you can afford. You can figure out the cost to keep a
> boat in your area and if you are a DIY guy add 3-5 K per year for stuff. If
> you aren’t a DIY guy, triple that! Taken care of your boat will last for
> generations, just ask Joe.
> Whatever you do use a surveyor when you think you have the right boat.
> Good luck finding the right boat for your family, it’s a fun journey.
> Len Mitchell
> Crazy Legs
> 1989 37+
> Midland On.
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Don,

We were fogged over the last time we went out on the O'Day a few weeks
ago.  It rolled over the islands just after we cleared the shipping channel
in Portland and didn't lift for a few hours. We sailed slowly by GPS and
with a keen lookout and nav lights on until it lifted.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM Donald Kern via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Jeff,
> A 40' is a big boat.  I own a 35' and have sailed and cruised 40' and 38'
> C  Unless the boat is set up for two you will be spending some money so
> it will be manageable by two.  Because I sail on Narragansett Bay the wind
> (except mid Jul to mid Aug) comes in every afternoon at 12 to 15 kts which
> my wife finds to be too "tippy" for her liking.  Thus, I cruise with her
> aboard with only my rollerfurl (140%), main not used. Because my boat was
> modified for SORC racing it has a short boom and with main only is under
> powered and unbalanced.
> I have done cruises from Long Island sound to Bar Harbor and use to live
> in Harpswell ME, so am quite familiar with the ares you would most likely.
> Biggest advice I can give you for ME is make sure you have a good GPS
> system with a display that is visible from the helm - FOG is prevalent.  My
> 35' draws a little over 6' (again modified for racing) and have found that
> almost all harbors and marinas are reachable except the very ends of the ME
> inlets at low tide - aay-yup.  I have had the boat for 40 years and had
> nine kids grow up with her. The boat handles six adults (racing), cruise a
> week comfortably with four adults or two adults and a group of children
> (amount dependent on childs' sizes).  The boat was bought in Burlington VT
> and trucked to Narragansett Bay and with a six foot draft did have low
> bridge restrictions.
> My best advice is take your wife out on a sail on a similar sized C to
> make sure she is comfortable with the power of these boats. Beneteaus,
> Catalinas  and Hunters do not count as similar!  If the Admiral is not
> happy on the boat, you will not be happy.
>
> Don Kern
> *Fireball*, C 35 Mk2
> Bristol RI
>
> On 7/20/2020 10:08 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote:
>
> If draft is an issue (or might be a future issue depending on your plans
> for cruising, etc.) I would consider the cb model.
>
> I have a 36 XL/kcb (your 40 ft C is actually a kcb since the cb retracts
> into a serious keel, unlike some cb boats that have boards only or very
> small keels) since I sail in the skinny NC sounds where a 5 ft draft is
> often the rule in marinas, not the exception.
>
> I Replace the pennant every 5 or so years and otherwise forgetaboutit!.
> Upwind, board down, it will point with or better than any others and
> downwind, board up, it will get up and go! OTOH, it likely has a weighted
> board which probably weighs over 1000 lbs. Unless you are racing, grinding
> the board up is not an easy job—I use a Lewmar 30 with 3:1 purchase AND my
> strongest crew to bring her up. Of course, as some have noted, it is a
> simple matter to pin it up permantly.
>
> Of course the kcb won’t be as fast as a deep keel of the same model (lots
> more wetted surface than a fin) but there probably isn’t any harbor in
> NH/ME that you could not get into, even at low tide, with the board up.
>
> Welcome to the list!
>
> Charlie Nelson
> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> Water Phantom
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
>
> On Monday, July 20, 2020, Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List
>   wrote:
>
> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I
> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+
> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer
> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our
> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the
> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the
> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
> but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may
> still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking
> and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs),
> we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid
> of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the
> offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to
> be safe before use.
>
>
> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>
> Now for the questions:
>
> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw
> in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard,
> and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a
> tall-rig/deep-keel.

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Rob,

I suspect the 34/36 is going to out of our price range as they don't show
up in our search criteria. Is yours the later model 34/36 or the 70's era
34?

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM Rob Ball via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The ‘basic’ waterline of the 40 and the 34/36 are almost identical, so the
> hull speeds match . . . .
>
>
>
> Which is why the newer boat sails in the same speed range . . . .
>
>
>
> Cheers,  Rob Ball
>
> C 34
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread schiller via CnC-List


Jeff,

I'll chime in on the step up.  Our first keel boat was a Southcoast 23 
(Carl Alberg design) that we decided was too small for us on Lake 
Michigan.  We went shopping for a 30 foot range (Catalina 30 was our 
target at the time) until I saw a Redwing 35 (C 35 Mark I) listed at 
the same range as we were targeting for the 30 range. Fell in love with 
the boat on first visit, but standing at the wheel looking at the bow I 
wasn't sure it was in the same zip code.  The boat had been stored 
indoor but had been neglected for years.  Our punch list was pretty big 
and the survey found several items that needed to be repaired 
immediately.  We bought it and sailed/motored it the 20 miles home from 
Holland, Michigan to South Haven, Michigan.  I absolutely envisioned a 
Forrest Gump docking on the first attempt.  I was absolutely and 
pleasantly surprised by the ease of getting her in.


As everyone else has chimed in the expenses over the next 21 years was 
significant, but we had a comfortable and reliable boat. Unfortunately 
one of the survey items repaired (upper chainplate bulkhead) finally 
gave up in 15 knot winds and we lost the mast at the spreader (which is 
how Joe Della Barba got his sails).  In replacing it, we looked at 
bigger (C 39) and smaller (C 32) until we lucked out and found the 
C 35 Mark III that we have now.


Your choices look good but do not underestimate the C 35-3. Plenty big 
enough for 6 adults.  Look for the boat that has the best "bones" that 
you can use while doing all of the "improvement" and maintenance required.


Neil Schiller
1983 C 35-3, #028, "Grace"
Whitehall, Michigan
WLYC



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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Charles,

I'll check out the video.  We are looking at displacement in regards to
allowing us greater comfort for coastal cruising where we would get outside
of Casco Bay for runs up to mid-coast Maine and back.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:56 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a
> steady high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and
> have low wind predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest
> model C that still has just enough interior to accommodate my family.
> Smaller, lighter, hulls move first as the wind builds from a calm while
> heavier boats struggle until the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much
> less wind to move a 10,000# boat than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a
> 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has standing headroom and can be
> trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail to hullspeed once the
> wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline boat has a speed
> advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we sail in, the
> lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  Check out
> this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 footers
> in a race.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go
>
> I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths
> (removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft
> berth and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger
> sister, the 37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an
> improvement over it.
> Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com
>
>
> Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md
>
>
>
> On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
> Welcome Jeff,
>
> Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat
> compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is
> bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated
> to sail - does it have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean
> Phoenix does have running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does
> not.  Not a big deal for long passages, but we tend to go out to tool
> around for an evening tacking and jibing a dozen times in the process or go
> sail around the islands outside of Marblehead and Beverly and I would
> prefer to sail rather than motor whenever possible if there is any wind
> (which is why it is nice to have a light C that will move in light air).
> Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with length too.  If offshore
> passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely a better choice and
> you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, and a C may
> not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are those on this
> list who would differ).
>
> Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price range is going
> to need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging work, sails (likely
> at some point) and replacements over the coming years. We have a 34 KCB and
> it is a nice size for us and is easy for my wife and me to handle (we don't
> have or fly a spin although I am looking to add an asymmetrical at some
> point). If I was to do it again I might look for a 34+ or 34/36 which is a
> little larger and has a newer style interior layout with a separate shower
> from the head I believe.  While that would have been more money up front,
> but as I put 10+k into improvements plus lots of time each year it would
> not have made a big difference in the long run.  My boat budget ends up
> around $20/year, about half of which is slip, hauling, winter storage and
> insurance, and the other half is maintenance and upgrades.  The first year
> we had the sails cleaned and repaired for $600, had the prop rebuilt for
> $500, new water heater, new head plumbing, new bilge pumps, new foam for
> the cushions (which I restuffed myself, etc.), etc. etc..  Last year we got
> new cruising sails for $6k and some new lines, new water pump, inflatable
> life jackets, etc..  This year it was quite a bit more (I haven't kept
> track) because we had the rod-rigging re-ended and needed a new furler and
> I repaired soft spots in the deck, repainted and refit the entire deck and
> included replacing winches with self tailers and added a custom bow roller
> I designed and sent out to a machine shop along with a new anchor and
> rode.  I am glad she is only 34ft long rather than 40!  Can you do it for a
> bit less - yes likely - but it is also nice to be able to improve things
> and make them better suit your needs and be prepared for the furler that
> breaks and isn't repairable type expenses.  Slip and such are probably a
> bit less up in Maine than in the Boston area, but it all adds up.
>
> Actually from my experience, and what I have read/learned since, you are
> much better off

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-21 Thread Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List

I think Hull #1 had been modified to do that at some point.  The regular C 99 
comes with symmetric 200% spinnaker and J+1 pole.  A number have since been 
modified to add a small fixed sprit which has total sprit length no longer than 
Spinnaker pole length.  The four racing here (Halifax) do not use the 
sprit/asym a lot.

The 99 is a very nice boat

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
Halifax

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of David Knecht via 
CnC-List
Sent: July 21, 2020 2:13 PM
To: CnC CnC discussion list 
Cc: David Knecht 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

Hi Chuck- I looked at a C 99 when I was buying my boat and it had an integral 
extending pole for an A sail.  I presumed that was standard on the 99, but the 
one in your video doesn’t have one.  Did some have them or was the one I looked 
at modified?  Dave

Dr. David Knecht
Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology
University of Connecticut
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
U-3125
Storrs, CT 06269-3125




On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:48 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Hi Don,
I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
different boats so close together.  The essence of racing.

Chuck
On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:


Chuck,
Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat thru 
the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and the 
bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted water or 
closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking downwind.
Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the wood 
and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had no 
engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum sponsor 
the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year of Offshore 
Training because of CORVID 19).

Beat Army !!

Don Kern
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI
On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a steady 
high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and have low wind 
predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest model C that still 
has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls 
move first as the wind builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until 
the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat 
than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has 
standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail 
to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline 
boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we 
sail in, the lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  
Check out this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 
footers in a race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
(removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft berth 
and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger sister, the 
37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an improvement over it.
Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com


Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md


On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List 
 wrote:


Welcome Jeff,

Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat compared to 
a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is bigger, heavier 
and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated to sail - does it 
have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have 
running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for 
long passages, but we tend to go out to tool around for an evening tacking and 
jibing a dozen times in the process or go sail around the islands outside of 
Marblehead and Beverly and I would prefer to sail rather than motor whenever 
possible if there is any wind (which is why it is nice to have a light C that 
will move in light air).  Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with 
length too.  If offshore passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely 
a better choice and you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, 
and a C may not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are 
those on this list who would differ).

Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Matt Wolford via CnC-List

Jeff:

 

Following up on what John said, the same vintage 36 is a fine 
boat, is a little bigger than the 34 (very similar), is likely adequately sized 
for your family at this time, and will not be quite so eye-opening on many of 
the issues described so far for making the jump to a 40 footer.  Coming from a 
much smaller boat, you may find this size to be a more suitable for a move up.  
I have a friend in Erie who may be interested in selling his (fresh water boat, 
at least for the past decade or so) if you think this might be an option.  His 
boat has been underused but maintained during his tenure.

 

Matt

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of John McCrea via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 12:35 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: John McCrea 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

 

We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The 40 was 
just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much  more 
expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9 years from 
big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years ago bought our 
1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and occasional weekend 
with guests. Best of luck!

 

 

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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Joe, LOVE IT!

I'm in the same boat (pun?). My grandfather plunked my brother and me in a
wooden pram with a square sail at the age of 6-7 and shoved us off in the
lake. We've been sailing ever since. He was a shipwright by trade. We still
have his Triangle Class at the same lake. My wife is new to the adventure
since marrying me some 17 years ago.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:23 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> This below was the source of some marital discussions. If you include
> family boats I have never in my entire life NOT had a boat, so large
> amounts of time and later money devoted to boat upkeep was something I
> never DIDN’T do. I used to get signed out of school as a kid for “family
> events” like sanding the bottom.  I have a photo someplace of my 9 year old
> self covered in green bottom paint dust.
>
> My wife had no such background and it took some adjusting!! Make sure the
> Admiral is all-in on this operation ;)
>
>
>
>
>
> *Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35  MK I*
>
> *www.dellabarba.com *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Richard Bush [mailto:bushma...@aol.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:55 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Della Barba, Joe 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> This is in response to (actually in support of) Joe's "numbers" post; I
> have a 37 and experience the same type of costs; I'm on a river and I built
> my own boat dock for about 15Gs...; just to know my boat was safe and
> secure; my purpose in joining in is to say,
>
> don't let these numbers put you off;
>
> In spite of the scary numbers, I love my boat and it is worth every penny
> to me; it becomes your lifestyle and thus the cost becomes the same as
> rent, food, utilities and other daily expenses...
>
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> Richard N. Bush Law Offices
>
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
>
> 502-584-7255
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-21 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List

Hi Chuck- I looked at a C 99 when I was buying my boat and it had an integral 
extending pole for an A sail.  I presumed that was standard on the 99, but the 
one in your video doesn’t have one.  Did some have them or was the one I looked 
at modified?  Dave

Dr. David Knecht
Professor, Department of Molecular and Cell Biology 
University of Connecticut   
91 N. Eagleville Rd.
U-3125
Storrs, CT 06269-3125

> On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:48 PM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Don,
> I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
> rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
> told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
> upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
> different boats so close together.  The essence of racing.
> 
> Chuck   
>> On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Chuck, 
>> Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat 
>> thru the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and 
>> the bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted 
>> water or closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking 
>> downwind.  
>> Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the wood 
>> and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had no 
>> engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum 
>> sponsor the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year 
>> of Offshore Training because of CORVID 19). 
>> 
>> Beat Army !! 
>>   
>> Don Kern 
>> Fireball C Mk2 
>> Bristol, RI 
>> 
>> On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote: 
>>> I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a 
>>> steady high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and 
>>> have low wind predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest 
>>> model C that still has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  
>>> Smaller, lighter, hulls move first as the wind builds from a calm while 
>>> heavier boats struggle until the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much 
>>> less wind to move a 10,000# boat than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 
>>> 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has standing headroom and can be 
>>> trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail to hullspeed once the 
>>> wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline boat has a speed 
>>> advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we sail in, the 
>>> lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  Check out 
>>> this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 footers 
>>> in a race.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
>>> (removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft 
>>> berth and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger 
>>> sister, the 37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an 
>>> improvement over it. 
>>> Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md
>>> 
>>>
 On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List  
  wrote:

 Welcome Jeff,

 Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat 
 compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is 
 bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated 
 to sail - does it have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean 
 Phoenix does have running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does 
 not.  Not a big deal for long passages, but we tend to go out to tool 
 around for an evening tacking and jibing a dozen times in the process or 
 go sail around the islands outside of Marblehead and Beverly and I would 
 prefer to sail rather than motor whenever possible if there is any wind 
 (which is why it is nice to have a light C that will move in light air). 
  Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with length too.  If 
 offshore passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely a better 
 choice and you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, and 
 a C may not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are 
 those on this list who would differ). 

 Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price range is going 
 to need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging work, sails (likely 
 at some point) and replacements over the coming years. We have a 34 KCB 
 and it is a nice size for us and is easy for my wife and me to handle (we

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Mike,

The costs you mention are not a surprise. We are factoring these issues in
our decision. We actually have a fleet of old boats in the family that all
need various amounts of "love" every year. Presently, a Herreshoff catboat,
a Hobie 16, a Triangle Class sloop my grandfather built, a Sunfish, and the
O'Day 23-2.

"Raced on one from Marblehead to Halifax one year and it was very
comfortable offshore" Not in the immediate plans, a more sea-kindly boat
would make a coastal cruise over a week vacation up to Bar Harbor and back
more of a possibility.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 10:17 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hi Jeff
>
>
>
> I believe having run motorhomes and the like you already know about costs
> but I would like to add one thing.  My father having had 35+ foot
> motorhomes and 36 foot sailboats (C of course) that he bought new in the
> day always said that he put aside 10% of the purchase price of the
> motorhome/boat annually for boat/motorhome expenses.
>
>
>
> 10% is a lot!  The thing to remember is that an older sailboat does not
> have expenses in line with the $27,000 purchase price but with those of a
> brand new 40 foot boat.  A new equivalent of a C 40 would be close to
> $300,000 CAD so expenses while not necessarily 10% of that will be quite
> high.  So long as you are prepared for that you are in good shape.
>
>
>
> To put in perspective our 1987 33 foot boat costs me $6500/year for just
> club/marina fees and insurance.  That cost stays even if I never use the
> boat.  On a 40 foot with marina prices based on LOA and winter storage
> prices based on square footage LOA x max beam the costs are considerably
> more than that.  Then there are the fun things that we do to 30 year old
> boats.  New cabin sole, upgraded electronics, replaced
> sails/dodgers/biminis/cushions etc … and of course the inevitable repairs
> to fix results of our stupidity that occasionally  happen.
>
>
>
> We started with a 23 foot boat.  It was cheap to own and very cramped
> inside.
>
>
>
> We now have a lovely 33 foot boat.  It costs both arms and one leg to
> keep.  However it is very comfortable inside and we love it
>
>
>
> Have fun.  The 40 is a great boat.  Raced on one from Marblehead to
> Halifax one year and it was very comfortable offshore.
>
>
>
> Mike Hoyt
>
> Persistence
>
> 1987 Frers 33 #16
>
> Halifax, Nova Scotia
>
> www.hoytsailing.com
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List  *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey
> Brideau via CnC-List
> *Sent:* July 20, 2020 6:38 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Jeffrey Brideau 
> *Subject:* Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
>
>
> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I
> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+
> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer
> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our
> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the
> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the
> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
> but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may
> still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking
> and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs),
> we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid
> of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the
> offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to
> be safe before use.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
>
> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>
>
>
> Now for the questions:
>
>
>
> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw
> in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard,
> and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a
> tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.
>
>
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8
>
>
>
> 1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain or
> a centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood,
> loose inside the drain that I could move with a finger.
>
> 2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that
> I've not seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps?
>
> 3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or
> expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat
> recently serviced.
>
>
>
> Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log
> sensors have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the
> description as features. Gelcoat seems good for its age.
>
>
>
> We are leaning towards

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Nathan,

Something with bigger displacement to let us take longer trips (less
protected waters) in more comfort for long weekends or week-long vacations
is indeed part of our rationale for the larger boat. We've tried taking our
23-2 outside the islands and although she is solid we get batted around
quite a bit when the wave period shortens up.

"you are much better off spending more money now to get a boat that the
previous owner put a lot into upgrading and fixing then a previously
neglected boat like I did" Agreed

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 9:56 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Welcome Jeff,
>
> Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat
> compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is
> bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated
> to sail - does it have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean
> Phoenix does have running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does
> not.  Not a big deal for long passages, but we tend to go out to tool
> around for an evening tacking and jibing a dozen times in the process or go
> sail around the islands outside of Marblehead and Beverly and I would
> prefer to sail rather than motor whenever possible if there is any wind
> (which is why it is nice to have a light C that will move in light air).
> Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with length too.  If offshore
> passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely a better choice and
> you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, and a C may
> not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are those on this
> list who would differ).
>
> Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price range is going
> to need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging work, sails (likely
> at some point) and replacements over the coming years. We have a 34 KCB and
> it is a nice size for us and is easy for my wife and me to handle (we don't
> have or fly a spin although I am looking to add an asymmetrical at some
> point). If I was to do it again I might look for a 34+ or 34/36 which is a
> little larger and has a newer style interior layout with a separate shower
> from the head I believe.  While that would have been more money up front,
> but as I put 10+k into improvements plus lots of time each year it would
> not have made a big difference in the long run.  My boat budget ends up
> around $20/year, about half of which is slip, hauling, winter storage and
> insurance, and the other half is maintenance and upgrades.  The first year
> we had the sails cleaned and repaired for $600, had the prop rebuilt for
> $500, new water heater, new head plumbing, new bilge pumps, new foam for
> the cushions (which I restuffed myself, etc.), etc. etc..  Last year we got
> new cruising sails for $6k and some new lines, new water pump, inflatable
> life jackets, etc..  This year it was quite a bit more (I haven't kept
> track) because we had the rod-rigging re-ended and needed a new furler and
> I repaired soft spots in the deck, repainted and refit the entire deck and
> included replacing winches with self tailers and added a custom bow roller
> I designed and sent out to a machine shop along with a new anchor and
> rode.  I am glad she is only 34ft long rather than 40!  Can you do it for a
> bit less - yes likely - but it is also nice to be able to improve things
> and make them better suit your needs and be prepared for the furler that
> breaks and isn't repairable type expenses.  Slip and such are probably a
> bit less up in Maine than in the Boston area, but it all adds up.
>
> Actually from my experience, and what I have read/learned since, you are
> much better off spending more money now to get a boat that the previous
> owner put a lot into upgrading and fixing then a previously neglected boat
> like I did.  Like you we wanted to get into a 30+ ft cruising boat at the
> low end of the price point (we paid $7500 for Wisper in 2018) and I do
> enjoy working on it almost as much as sailing so there is that.  Initially
> this approach is tempting with lots of old neglected boats in the market,
> but I wouldn’t likely do that again now that I am into "big boat"
> ownership.  I would likely still get a 40 year old boat again if/when it
> comes time to upgrade, but I would look for one that someone else did a lot
> of upgrading on recently and happily pay more for it (there will still be
> plenty to do and change over the years).  On the other hand, I am learning
> a ton as I try things on this boat and learn what I like and don't like and
> I am not sure if we would have bought a boat at all if I had proposed a
> larger budget to my wife initially.  And there is also satisfaction in
> bringing a good boat back from the brink of the scrap yard.
>
> Anyway, that is my two cents.  Good luck!
>
> Nathan
> - -
> Nathan Post
> S/V Wisper
> 1981 C 34 KCB
> Lynn MA
>

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Richard,

Nothing in the money talk has been unexpected to me... yet.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 9:55 AM Richard Bush via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> This is in response to (actually in support of) Joe's "numbers" post; I
> have a 37 and experience the same type of costs; I'm on a river and I built
> my own boat dock for about 15Gs...; just to know my boat was safe and
> secure; my purpose in joining in is to say,
> don't let these numbers put you off;
> In spite of the scary numbers, I love my boat and it is worth every penny
> to me; it becomes your lifestyle and thus the cost becomes the same as
> rent, food, utilities and other daily expenses...
>
> Richard
>
> Richard N. Bush Law Offices
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> 502-584-7255
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
> Sent: Tue, Jul 21, 2020 9:26 am
> Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
> The reason we are collectively giving a bit of warning is you are about to
> jump into a whole new world of both much bigger $$$ and much bigger forces.
> Not to say it isn’t worth it, but it helps to know what you are getting
> into.
> To start with, the loads on a 40 foot boat are exponentially bigger than a
> 23 foot boat. Accidents can be very expensive and they can be lethal.
> Maintenance likewise can be financially lethal.
> I’ll get into the cash aspect here first. Everything scales up by the
> foot, pound, and square yard. Slips cost more, haulouts cost more, bottom
> paint costs more, sails cost more, engines cost more, even cushions cost
> more. There are things you don’t even think of like batteries. It is easy
> to spend over $1,000 on batteries alone!  These are all OLD BOATS now and
> you always have the potential for repairs that cost a good fraction of what
> the boat is worth. You also have to add the DIY factor. Most of us this
> list do a lot of DIY repairs. I could never ever afford to keep my boat
> floating if I had to pay anyone to maintain her. My wife sometimes
> questions my sanity when I come home exhausted with a few bloodstains on my
> shirt, epoxy stuck to my arm, and tell her how much I love sailing J
> I could not even begin to make something like a spreadsheet. If I saw the
> hard numbers, it would probably scare me off sailing for good! I’ll give
> you a rough guess here and this is for a 35 foot boat.
> Fixed costs:
> Slip: $2400/yr. I have a good deal, it can be a LOT more!
> Insurance: Around $600/yr.
> This is the rock-bottom minimum for the boat to just float in one spot and
> not move.
> Electricity: What, you didn’t think you would have an electric bill?
> You’re in the big leagues now! About $10/month in summer, it has hit $60 in
> really cold months between the cabin heat and ice-eater.
> Fuel: Somewhere between 50 and 150 gallons of fuel in a year, depending on
> where we go and how much wind there is.
> Repairs/upgrades/etc.
> This is HUGELY variable. I cannot imagine a year without at least a few
> hundred bucks in random stuff I don’t even keep track of.
> Over the years I have done things like:
> Rewire the boat – I think I was about $3,000 or so in supplies on that one.
> Batteries – The house battery is about $600 or so for a 4D. The engine
> start battery is about $150.
> Engine – I am on my third engine. The first one lasted for 20 years until
> salt water corroded it to death. We bought a used replacement that was not
> that good and that one got junked for a really nice rebuilt engine that was
> a hobby project for a laid off chief engineer waiting for his ship to get
> out of drydock. My expenses on this were incredibly low by boat standards
> because I have an Atomic 4 gasoline engine. They are somewhat plentiful
> used compared to many and I got each engine for under $2000 and **did all
> the work myself**. A shop installing a rebuilt Atomic 4 would likely bill
> you around $6,000 or more. I got quotes for diesel engine replacements in
> the $12K and up range! Note a C 40 does not use the A4, swapping that
> diesel out if it dies would be well over $10K if you pay to have it done.
> Even totally DIY, used diesels that fit your boat and are not junk are not
> easy to find and usually not cheap either.
> Sails – they get worn out. They are not cheap. Used sails to fit a furler
> are very hard to find, no one wants to get rid of them. I got incredibly
> lucky when I got the sails from a dismasted 35 in great shape, but you
> can’t count on that. I was racing a C 40 up a windy river under chute
> with my soon-to-be wife and the 40 could not get past us for a while, they
> were slower under jib. Then a gust came across the river, our sail turned
> into mulit-colored nylon confetti, the 40 passed us, and I had to explain
> that was several thousand dollars’ worth of pretty colors flying all over
> the place.
> Bottom paint is not every year

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List

Jeff

I was exactly in your spot 4-5 years ago when my family 4 kids moved from an 
oday 25  and a j24 to a C 40 Hull 190

 I currently keep my 40  aft cabin version off the eastern prom and have done 
all the work on it myself through the  help and advice from  those on this list 

Best up grade thus far new rudder bearing and new brake for Edson wheel. Holds 
course well as I raise the sails usually solo. Since kids only like to get in 
during Wednesday nite cyc races or the weekend 

If you have any questions don’t hesitate to contact me

Peter 
C 40 1983 aft cabin Goonie island 
207-712-2938

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:50 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Another thing you may not have thought of coming from a 23 foot boat: Ground 
> tackle. It is bigger, heavier, more expensive – by FAR – and IMHO the 40 is 
> on the ragged edge of what one can deal with without a windlass, which is 
> also not a cheap thing.
> J
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks Joe,

You have a smoking hot deal on a slip. South Portland is closer to $5k for
a 40' boat.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 9:27 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> The reason we are collectively giving a bit of warning is you are about to
> jump into a whole new world of both much bigger $$$ and much bigger forces.
> Not to say it isn’t worth it, but it helps to know what you are getting
> into.
>
> To start with, the loads on a 40 foot boat are exponentially bigger than a
> 23 foot boat. Accidents can be very expensive and they can be lethal.
> Maintenance likewise can be financially lethal.
>
> I’ll get into the cash aspect here first. Everything scales up by the
> foot, pound, and square yard. Slips cost more, haulouts cost more, bottom
> paint costs more, sails cost more, engines cost more, even cushions cost
> more. There are things you don’t even think of like batteries. It is easy
> to spend over $1,000 on batteries alone!  These are all OLD BOATS now and
> you always have the potential for repairs that cost a good fraction of what
> the boat is worth. You also have to add the DIY factor. Most of us this
> list do a lot of DIY repairs. I could never ever afford to keep my boat
> floating if I had to pay anyone to maintain her. My wife sometimes
> questions my sanity when I come home exhausted with a few bloodstains on my
> shirt, epoxy stuck to my arm, and tell her how much I love sailing J
>
> I could not even begin to make something like a spreadsheet. If I saw the
> hard numbers, it would probably scare me off sailing for good! I’ll give
> you a rough guess here and this is for a 35 foot boat.
>
> Fixed costs:
>
> Slip: $2400/yr. I have a good deal, it can be a LOT more!
>
> Insurance: Around $600/yr.
>
> This is the rock-bottom minimum for the boat to just float in one spot and
> not move.
>
> Electricity: What, you didn’t think you would have an electric bill?
> You’re in the big leagues now! About $10/month in summer, it has hit $60 in
> really cold months between the cabin heat and ice-eater.
>
> Fuel: Somewhere between 50 and 150 gallons of fuel in a year, depending on
> where we go and how much wind there is.
>
> Repairs/upgrades/etc.
>
> This is HUGELY variable. I cannot imagine a year without at least a few
> hundred bucks in random stuff I don’t even keep track of.
>
> Over the years I have done things like:
>
> Rewire the boat – I think I was about $3,000 or so in supplies on that one.
>
> Batteries – The house battery is about $600 or so for a 4D. The engine
> start battery is about $150.
>
> Engine – I am on my third engine. The first one lasted for 20 years until
> salt water corroded it to death. We bought a used replacement that was not
> that good and that one got junked for a really nice rebuilt engine that was
> a hobby project for a laid off chief engineer waiting for his ship to get
> out of drydock. My expenses on this were incredibly low by boat standards
> because I have an Atomic 4 gasoline engine. They are somewhat plentiful
> used compared to many and I got each engine for under $2000 and **did all
> the work myself**. A shop installing a rebuilt Atomic 4 would likely bill
> you around $6,000 or more. I got quotes for diesel engine replacements in
> the $12K and up range! Note a C 40 does not use the A4, swapping that
> diesel out if it dies would be well over $10K if you pay to have it done.
> Even totally DIY, used diesels that fit your boat and are not junk are not
> easy to find and usually not cheap either.
>
> Sails – they get worn out. They are not cheap. Used sails to fit a furler
> are very hard to find, no one wants to get rid of them. I got incredibly
> lucky when I got the sails from a dismasted 35 in great shape, but you
> can’t count on that. I was racing a C 40 up a windy river under chute
> with my soon-to-be wife and the 40 could not get past us for a while, they
> were slower under jib. Then a gust came across the river, our sail turned
> into mulit-colored nylon confetti, the 40 passed us, and I had to explain
> that was several thousand dollars’ worth of pretty colors flying all over
> the place.
>
> Bottom paint is not every year for me and I do it myself, even so that
> usually adds up to a kilobuck more or less with yard fees and supplies. I
> had to remove the mast once and rebuild the mast step. That too probably
> got close to a kilobuck if not more and that was me doing 100% of the work,
> but I can’t haul a boat and remove the mast myself, there are still yard
> fees. That would have easily been a $5K job or more if I paid the yard.
>
> I have fixed the head, replaced the head, replaced seacocks, replaced
> bilge pumps, replaced water pumps, replaced instruments, replaced keel bolt
> backing plates, replaced port hole Plexiglas, and 1000 other things I can’t
> even remember right now. We are starting cushion replacement. I got a big
> memory foam king mattress and carved it into a v-berth mattress so far. If

Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

2020-07-21 Thread Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List

True.  However that 99 is now going to have to alter more DDW and will slow 
down quite a bit as a result ….

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
via CnC-List
Sent: July 21, 2020 1:49 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

Hi Don,
I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
different boats so close together.  The essence of racing.

Chuck
On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:

Chuck,
Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat thru 
the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and the 
bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted water or 
closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking downwind.
Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the wood 
and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had no 
engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum sponsor 
the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year of Offshore 
Training because of CORVID 19).

Beat Army !!

Don Kern
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI
On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a steady 
high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and have low wind 
predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest model C that still 
has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls 
move first as the wind builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until 
the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat 
than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has 
standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail 
to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline 
boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we 
sail in, the lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  
Check out this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 
footers in a race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
(removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft berth 
and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger sister, the 
37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an improvement over it.
Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md

On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List 
 wrote:

Welcome Jeff,

Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat compared to 
a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is bigger, heavier 
and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated to sail - does it 
have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have 
running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for 
long passages, but we tend to go out to tool around for an evening tacking and 
jibing a dozen times in the process or go sail around the islands outside of 
Marblehead and Beverly and I would prefer to sail rather than motor whenever 
possible if there is any wind (which is why it is nice to have a light C that 
will move in light air).  Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with 
length too.  If offshore passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely 
a better choice and you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, 
and a C may not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are 
those on this list who would differ).

Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price range is going to 
need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging work, sails (likely at some 
point) and replacements over the coming years. We have a 34 KCB and it is a 
nice size for us and is easy for my wife and me to handle (we don't have or fly 
a spin although I am looking to add an asymmetrical at some point). If I was to 
do it again I might look for a 34+ or 34/36 which is a little larger and has a 
newer style interior layout with a separate shower from the head I believe.  
While that would have been more money up front, but as I put 10+k into 
improvements plus lots of time each year it would not have made a big 
difference in the long run.  My boat budget ends up around $20/year, about half 
of which is slip, hauling, winter storage and insurance, and

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

HI Ron,

We are from the Portsmouth, NH area but sail in Portland, ME. We intend to
keep the boat in Portland, ME.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 8:13 AM rjcasciato--- via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Jeff, did I miss where you are located??
> And is that where you will be keeping and sailing the boat??
> Ron
> rjcasci...@comcast.net
>
>
> Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: bride...@gmail.com
> Sent: 2020-07-21 6:31:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Thanks for the words of caution. We are definitely balancing the size
> situation and appreciate a 40 will be over 5X larger than our 23 and would
> love the opportunity to sail on one prior to purchasing if that were an
> option.
>
> I'm selling a 40' diesel motorhome that costs us an arm and a leg in
> repairs and maintenance (~$5000 in just the past few weeks) in exchange for
> this "money pit" but would be very interested in what your annual cost may
> have been. I've been building a spreadsheet to estimate annual costs
> especially now that we will be paying for a slip.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:11 PM rjcasciato--- via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello Jeffrey..first, welcome to the listmost of us on the C
>> list will keep our boats to the "end", unless we're upgrading to a larger
>> C
>> I own a 77' 38MKII, hull #125. I've owned Impromptu for 23 years
>> Your decision to get into a big "old" boat needs careful assessment of
>> your finances and the amount of work you are willing to do.virtually
>> none of us here don't work to keep our boats sailing like they were built...
>> You don't want to know how much money that chews up in 23 years...
>> BUT, IMPROMPTU LOOKS LIKE IT JUST CAME OUT OF THE MOLD YESTERDAY
>> and sails way better than it did when it left Canada for Chicago in 1977.
>> My wife doesn't do wind, sun, and noise
>> So this 38 MKII raceshard and well with a seasoned crew of 6.
>> I don't suggest you think about that until later when you have enough
>> crew
>> Speaking of crew.are you planning to sail the 40 with only you and
>> your wife Things are much bigger on a 40 than on an ODay 23.the
>> mast alone approaches twice the height.
>> I would be glad to share some of the "annual base costs" for you to
>> consider
>> My opinion is that the 35 should be big enough for this next moveand
>> cruisable in "nice" weather for two
>> I'd be interested in some of the veteran C'ers opinion and what are
>> some of the comparative issues of making this big jump.
>> Something to consider..the guy who designed my 38 and all of those
>> 40's, and all of the rest of the good years C's drives a 34..think
>> about that first
>> Making a move away from the ODay is a no brainer.just you and your
>> wife sail a 40 firstwith safety crew sitting by.
>> Again, welcome to this group.we all love our C's.
>> Ron C.
>> IMPROMPTU
>> C 38MKIIC
>> 1977#125
>>
>> Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: bride...@gmail.com
>> Sent: 2020-07-20 5:38:36 PM
>> Subject: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>>
>> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I
>> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+
>> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer
>> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our
>> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the
>> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the
>> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
>> but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may
>> still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking
>> and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs),
>> we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid
>> of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the
>> offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to
>> be safe before use.
>>
>>
>> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
>> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>>
>> Now for the questions:
>>
>> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw
>> in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard,
>> and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a
>> tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8
>>
>> 1. On this boat, what

Stus-List Fuel polisher/fuel vacuum gauge

2020-07-21 Thread Len Mitchell via CnC-List

Thanks Josh you are right the gauge measure inches of mercury not atmospheres.( 
.489 vs 14.7 lbs) I did an experiment this morning and our Universal M35 uses 
an electric fuel pump made by Facet that runs at 6-8 psi. The gauge running 
shows 1 inch of mercury or just around .5 lbs and it will generate at least 7 
inches of mercury vacuum with the fuel valve shut off or about 3.5 pounds of 
vacuum. I did not take it further into vacuum because that’s all I wanted to 
know. If the vacuum reads more than 1 inch of mercury there is a restriction 
somewhere, dirty primary fuel filter etc. Something else to consider, a Facet 
fuel pump has a screen filter in the bottom if it’s not pulling fuel, although 
the primary is supposed to catch any contamination first. 
Let us know how you make out Tom! 
Len Mitchell
Crazy Legs
1989 37+
Midland On. 


Sent from my mobile device. 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Another thing you may not have thought of coming from a 23 foot boat: Ground 
tackle. It is bigger, heavier, more expensive – by FAR – and IMHO the 40 is on 
the ragged edge of what one can deal with without a windlass, which is also not 
a cheap thing.
J
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Re: Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat

Hi Don,
I wasn't there, but a crewman aboard the 99 told me the owner has a long 
rivalry with the J-109 which was flying an assymetric on a sprit, also.  He 
told me the 99 is for sale because the owner bought a J-109 cause it's faster 
upwind and points higher.   I find the video quite exciting with so many 
different boats so close together.  The essence of racing.

Chuck  

> On 07/21/2020 12:27 PM Donald Kern via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Chuck,
> Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller boat 
> thru the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a A-chute and 
> the bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was in restricted 
> water or closing the mark they should have been maxing their VMG by tacking 
> downwind. 
> Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the 
> wood and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; had 
> no engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine Museum 
> sponsor the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed this year 
> of Offshore Training because of CORVID 19).
> 
> Beat Army !!
>  
> Don Kern
> Fireball C Mk2
> Bristol, RI
> 
> On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
> 
> > > I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If 
> you sail in a steady high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest 
> of us and have low wind predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, 
> lightest model C that still has just enough interior to accommodate my 
> family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls move first as the wind builds from a calm 
> while heavier boats struggle until the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes 
> much less wind to move a 10,000# boat than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move 
> a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has standing headroom and can be 
> trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail to hullspeed once the wind 
> reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline boat has a speed 
> advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we sail in, the 
> lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  Check out this 
> video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 footers in a 
> race.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go
> > 
> > I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee 
> > berths (removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width 
> > aft berth and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger 
> > sister, the 37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an 
> > improvement over it. 
> > Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com
> >  
> > 
> > Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > > > > On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via 
> > CnC-List  mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Welcome Jeff,
> > > 
> > > Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as 
> > > much boat compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. 
> > > Everything is bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also get 
> > > more complicated to sail - does it have running backstays?  I think that 
> > > a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have running backstays - not sure about 
> > > the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for long passages, but we tend 
> > > to go out to tool around for an evening tacking and jibing a dozen times 
> > > in the process or go sail around the islands outside of Marblehead and 
> > > Beverly and I would prefer to sail rather than motor whenever possible if 
> > > there is any wind (which is why it is nice to have a light C that will 
> > > move in light air).  Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with 
> > > length too.  If offshore passages are your plan then the bigger boat is 
> > > likely a better choice and you want to pay attention to the stability 
> > > numbers as well, and a C may not be the right choice at all (although I 
> > > am sure there are those on this list who would differ).
> > > 
> > > Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price 
> > > range is going to need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging 
> > > work, sails (likely at some point) and replacements over the coming 
> > > years. We have a 34 KCB and it is a nice size for us and is easy for my 
> > > wife and me to handle (we don't have or fly a spin although I am looking 
> > > to add an asymmetrical at some point). If I was to do it again I might 
> > > look for a 34+ or 34/36 which is a little larger and has a newer style 
> > > interior layout with a separate shower from the head I believe.  While 
> > > that would have been more money up front, but as I put 10+k into 
> > > improvements plus lots of time each year it would not

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions


Yup,
Installed my first autopilot last year, does make cruising easier. Have 
two wheels; a C standard small one with the autopilot attached and a 
large wheel for racing.  The large one allows the helmsman to easily sit 
at either rail to see the luff of the genoa, but makes going aft by the 
helm difficult.


Don Kern
/Fireball/, C 35 Mk2
Bristol RI

On 7/21/2020 12:11 PM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:


What he said – you will either buy a boat with a furling jib and an 
autopilot or spend the $$$ to add them first thing. My boat is broke 
if the autopilot is broke ;)


*/Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35  MK I/*

*/www.dellabarba.com/*

*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of 
*Donald Kern via CnC-List

*Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:36 AM
*To:* Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
*Cc:* Donald Kern 
*Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Jeff,
A 40' is a big boat.  I own a 35' and have sailed and cruised 40' and 
38' C  Unless the boat is set up for two you will be spending some 
money so it will be manageable by two. Because I sail on Narragansett 
Bay the wind (except mid Jul to mid Aug) comes in every afternoon at 
12 to 15 kts which my wife finds to be too "tippy" for her liking.  
Thus, I cruise with her aboard with only my rollerfurl (140%), main 
not used. Because my boat was modified for SORC racing it has a short 
boom and with main only is under powered and unbalanced.
I have done cruises from Long Island sound to Bar Harbor and use to 
live in Harpswell ME, so am quite familiar with the ares you would 
most likely.  Biggest advice I can give you for ME is make sure you 
have a good GPS system with a display that is visible from the helm - 
FOG is prevalent.  My 35' draws a little over 6' (again modified for 
racing) and have found that almost all harbors and marinas are 
reachable except the very ends of the ME inlets at low tide - 
aay-yup.  I have had the boat for 40 years and had nine kids grow up 
with her. The boat handles six adults (racing), cruise a week 
comfortably with four adults or two adults and a group of children 
(amount dependent on childs' sizes).  The boat was bought in 
Burlington VT and trucked to Narragansett Bay and with a six foot 
draft did have low bridge restrictions.
My best advice is take your wife out on a sail on a similar sized C 
to make sure she is comfortable with the power of these boats. 
Beneteaus, Catalinas  and Hunters do not count as similar!  If the 
Admiral is not happy on the boat, you will not be happy.


Don Kern
/Fireball/, C 35 Mk2
Bristol RI


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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray



___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Agree,  I could live with hank on sails, but an autopilot is essential.  That 
was the very first upgrade on my boat.  I added a furler the following year, as 
I pulled the mast to paint it.  The autohelm steers so I can hoist and lower 
sails and ready my fenders and docklines before entering a marina.  I let it 
steer while I trim sheets and that enables me to race solo against fully crewed 
boats. 



> On 07/21/2020 12:11 PM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> What he said – you will either buy a boat with a furling jib and an 
> autopilot or spend the $$$ to add them first thing. My boat is broke if the 
> autopilot is broke ;)
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35  MK I
> 
> www.dellabarba.com
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Donald 
> Kern via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:36 AM
> To: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
> Cc: Donald Kern 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
> 
> 
> Jeff,
> A 40' is a big boat.  I own a 35' and have sailed and cruised 40' and 38' 
> C  Unless the boat is set up for two you will be spending some money so 
> it will be manageable by two.  Because I sail on Narragansett Bay the wind 
> (except mid Jul to mid Aug) comes in every afternoon at 12 to 15 kts which my 
> wife finds to be too "tippy" for her liking.  Thus, I cruise with her aboard 
> with only my rollerfurl (140%), main not used. Because my boat was modified 
> for SORC racing it has a short boom and with main only is under powered and 
> unbalanced. 
> I have done cruises from Long Island sound to Bar Harbor and use to live 
> in Harpswell ME, so am quite familiar with the ares you would most likely.  
> Biggest advice I can give you for ME is make sure you have a good GPS system 
> with a display that is visible from the helm - FOG is prevalent.  My 35' 
> draws a little over 6' (again modified for racing) and have found that almost 
> all harbors and marinas are reachable except the very ends of the ME inlets 
> at low tide - aay-yup.  I have had the boat for 40 years and had nine kids 
> grow up with her. The boat handles six adults (racing), cruise a week 
> comfortably with four adults or two adults and a group of children (amount 
> dependent on childs' sizes).  The boat was bought in Burlington VT and 
> trucked to Narragansett Bay and with a six foot draft did have low bridge 
> restrictions.
> My best advice is take your wife out on a sail on a similar sized C to 
> make sure she is comfortable with the power of these boats. Beneteaus, 
> Catalinas  and Hunters do not count as similar!  If the Admiral is not happy 
> on the boat, you will not be happy.
> 
> Don Kern
> Fireball, C 35 Mk2
> Bristol RI
> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each 
> and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> 
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread John McCrea via CnC-List

We went from a Pearson 30 to a newer 89 Ericson 32 to a 89 C 40XL. The 40 was 
just too much boat. 40 is a great size but everything is so much  more 
expensive. Little things that add up like bottom paint. We took 9 years from 
big boats, bought a j24 to race with the kids and then 3 years ago bought our 
1980 C 36. It is the perfect size boat for a couple and occasional weekend 
with guests. Best of luck!

 

 

From: David Risch  
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:59 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

 

I have had a 40 for 16 years.  

 

Costs aside…

 

She is very seaworthy (BMD and back 3 times in “stuff”).  Easily handled.  
Easily de-powered.  Incredibly maneuverable (forwards of backwards).  Amazing 
in light air.  Sails rings around other boats with just a headsail (barely use 
the main on Buzzards Bay).  

 

And IMHO the prettiest profile (especially in Flag Blue).   

 

David F. Risch

Managing Director

Great Benefits USA

401-419-4650 - Direct Line

  

 

 

 www.greatbenefitsusa.com

 

The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient 
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From: CnC-List mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> > On Behalf Of Rob Ball via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:42 AM
To: cenel...@aol.com  ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
 
Cc: Rob Ball mailto:r...@edsonintl.com> >
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

 

The C 51 was designed as a centerboarder from the start, and the board is 
full of lead.

 

We did a hydraulic lift for that . . . . . a tackle arrangement so the cylinder 
moves about one quarter the distance needed to pull up the board.

 

Rob Ball

C 34

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Stus-List Sailing with a spin thru the lee of a bigger boat


Chuck,
Good demonstration of what happens when you decide to sail a smaller 
boat thru the lee of a bigger boat.  Especially dead downwind with a 
A-chute and the bigger  has a symmetric chute.   Unless the A-chute was 
in restricted water or closing the mark they should have been maxing 
their VMG by tacking downwind.
Brings back memories of those blue and gold chutes - use to skipper the 
wood and first glass NA 44 yawls. Preferred the wood, they were faster; 
had no engines, less weight and drag.  Bristol YC and Herreshoff Marine 
Museum sponsor the boat school's 44s each June for the last 5yrs (missed 
this year of Offshore Training because of CORVID 19).


Beat Army !!

Don Kern
Fireball C Mk2
Bristol, RI

On 7/21/2020 10:55 AM, CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List wrote:
I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a 
steady high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us 
and have low wind predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, 
lightest model C that still has just enough interior to 
accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls move first as the wind 
builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until the wind gets up 
over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat than a 
20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which 
has standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They 
will all sail to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and 
then the longer waterline boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 
knots which is predominantly what we sail in, the lighter boats win 
and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  Check out this video of a 
C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 footers in a race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee 
berths (removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full 
width aft berth and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and 
the bigger sister, the 37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 
34/36 was an improvement over it.

Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com

Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md


On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List 
 wrote:



Welcome Jeff,

Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat 
compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. 
Everything is bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also 
get more complicated to sail - does it have running backstays?  I 
think that a 38 such as Ocean Phoenix does have running backstays - 
not sure about the 40.  My 34 does not.  Not a big deal for long 
passages, but we tend to go out to tool around for an evening tacking 
and jibing a dozen times in the process or go sail around the islands 
outside of Marblehead and Beverly and I would prefer to sail rather 
than motor whenever possible if there is any wind (which is why it is 
nice to have a light C that will move in light air).  Dockage, 
hauling and winter storage all scale with length too.  If offshore 
passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely a better choice 
and you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, and a 
C may not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are 
those on this list who would differ).


Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price range is 
going to need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging work, 
sails (likely at some point) and replacements over the coming 
years. We have a 34 KCB and it is a nice size for us and is easy for 
my wife and me to handle (we don't have or fly a spin although I am 
looking to add an asymmetrical at some point). If I was to do it 
again I might look for a 34+ or 34/36 which is a little larger and 
has a newer style interior layout with a separate shower from the 
head I believe.  While that would have been more money up front, but 
as I put 10+k into improvements plus lots of time each year it would 
not have made a big difference in the long run. My boat budget ends 
up around $20/year, about half of which is slip, hauling, winter 
storage and insurance, and the other half is maintenance and 
upgrades.  The first year we had the sails cleaned and repaired for 
$600, had the prop rebuilt for $500, new water heater, new head 
plumbing, new bilge pumps, new foam for the cushions (which I 
restuffed myself, etc.), etc. etc.. Last year we got new cruising 
sails for $6k and some new lines, new water pump, inflatable life 
jackets, etc.. This year it was quite a bit more (I haven't kept 
track) because we had the rod-rigging re-ended and needed a new 
furler and I repaired soft spots in the deck, repainted and refit the 
entire deck and included replacing winches with self tailers and 
added a custom bow roller I designed and sent out to a machine shop 
along with a new anchor and rode.  I am glad she is only 34ft long 
rather than 40!  Can you do it for a

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

What he said – you will either buy a boat with a furling jib and an autopilot 
or spend the $$$ to add them first thing. My boat is broke if the autopilot is 
broke ;)


Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Donald Kern 
via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:36 AM
To: Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
Cc: Donald Kern 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Jeff,
A 40' is a big boat.  I own a 35' and have sailed and cruised 40' and 38' C 
 Unless the boat is set up for two you will be spending some money so it will 
be manageable by two.  Because I sail on Narragansett Bay the wind (except mid 
Jul to mid Aug) comes in every afternoon at 12 to 15 kts which my wife finds to 
be too "tippy" for her liking.  Thus, I cruise with her aboard with only my 
rollerfurl (140%), main not used. Because my boat was modified for SORC racing 
it has a short boom and with main only is under powered and unbalanced.
I have done cruises from Long Island sound to Bar Harbor and use to live in 
Harpswell ME, so am quite familiar with the ares you would most likely.  
Biggest advice I can give you for ME is make sure you have a good GPS system 
with a display that is visible from the helm - FOG is prevalent.  My 35' draws 
a little over 6' (again modified for racing) and have found that almost all 
harbors and marinas are reachable except the very ends of the ME inlets at low 
tide - aay-yup.  I have had the boat for 40 years and had nine kids grow up 
with her. The boat handles six adults (racing), cruise a week comfortably with 
four adults or two adults and a group of children (amount dependent on childs' 
sizes).  The boat was bought in Burlington VT and trucked to Narragansett Bay 
and with a six foot draft did have low bridge restrictions.
My best advice is take your wife out on a sail on a similar sized C to make 
sure she is comfortable with the power of these boats. Beneteaus, Catalinas  
and Hunters do not count as similar!  If the Admiral is not happy on the boat, 
you will not be happy.

Don Kern
Fireball, C 35 Mk2
Bristol RI
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread David Risch via CnC-List

I have had a 40 for 16 years.

Costs aside…

She is very seaworthy (BMD and back 3 times in “stuff”).  Easily handled.  
Easily de-powered.  Incredibly maneuverable (forwards of backwards).  Amazing 
in light air.  Sails rings around other boats with just a headsail (barely use 
the main on Buzzards Bay).

And IMHO the prettiest profile (especially in Flag Blue).

David F. Risch
Managing Director
Great Benefits USA
401-419-4650 - Direct Line
[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download=1iPWGeVIdWdypHSMZPtJX0mxirxyZ4ZBN=0B9uSW32EcB8tZGxlWW1OMlJ6MXU0bmVaaFByQmlSVDMrOWNVPQ]
www.greatbenefitsusa.com

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From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Rob Ball via 
CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:42 AM
To: cenel...@aol.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Rob Ball 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

The C 51 was designed as a centerboarder from the start, and the board is 
full of lead.

We did a hydraulic lift for that . . . . . a tackle arrangement so the cylinder 
moves about one quarter the distance needed to pull up the board.

Rob Ball
C 34
___

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Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Len Mitchell via CnC-List

Welcome Jeff, 
Looks like you are getting lots of replies. Folks have been sailing with a 
family of 4 in all sizes of boats. We went 25-36-40 and bigger is more 
comfortable for sure. My advice would be buy a C! Best condition, newest and 
most comfortable you can afford. You can figure out the cost to keep a boat in 
your area and if you are a DIY guy add 3-5 K per year for stuff. If you aren’t 
a DIY guy, triple that! Taken care of your boat will last for generations, just 
ask Joe. 
Whatever you do use a surveyor when you think you have the right boat. Good 
luck finding the right boat for your family, it’s a fun journey. 
Len Mitchell
Crazy Legs
1989 37+
Midland On. 

Sent from my mobile device. 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Rob Ball via CnC-List

The C 51 was designed as a centerboarder from the start, and the board is 
full of lead.

We did a hydraulic lift for that . . . . . a tackle arrangement so the cylinder 
moves about one quarter the distance needed to pull up the board.

Rob Ball
C 34
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Rob Ball via CnC-List

The ‘basic’ waterline of the 40 and the 34/36 are almost identical, so the hull 
speeds match . . . .

Which is why the newer boat sails in the same speed range . . . .

Cheers,  Rob Ball
C 34

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Jeff,
A 40' is a big boat. I own a 35' and have sailed and cruised 40' and
38' C Unless the boat is set up for two you will be spending some
money so it will be manageable by two. Because I sail on Narragansett
Bay the wind (except mid Jul to mid Aug) comes in every afternoon at 12
to 15 kts which my wife finds to be too "tippy" for her liking. Thus, I
cruise with her aboard with only my rollerfurl (140%), main not used.
Because my boat was modified for SORC racing it has a short boom and
with main only is under powered and unbalanced.
I have done cruises from Long Island sound to Bar Harbor and use to live
in Harpswell ME, so am quite familiar with the ares you would most
likely. Biggest advice I can give you for ME is make sure you have a
good GPS system with a display that is visible from the helm - FOG is
prevalent. My 35' draws a little over 6' (again modified for racing)
and have found that almost all harbors and marinas are reachable except
the very ends of the ME inlets at low tide - aay-yup. I have had the
boat for 40 years and had nine kids grow up with her. The boat handles
six adults (racing), cruise a week comfortably with four adults or two
adults and a group of children (amount dependent on childs' sizes). The
boat was bought in Burlington VT and trucked to Narragansett Bay and
with a six foot draft did have low bridge restrictions.
My best advice is take your wife out on a sail on a similar sized C to
make sure she is comfortable with the power of these boats. Beneteaus,
Catalinas and Hunters do not count as similar! If the Admiral is not
happy on the boat, you will not be happy.

Don Kern
/Fireball/, C 35 Mk2
Bristol RI

On 7/20/2020 10:08 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List wrote:
If draft is an issue (or might be a future issue depending on your
plans for cruising, etc.) I would consider the cb model.

I have a 36 XL/kcb (your 40 ft C is actually a kcb since the cb
retracts into a serious keel, unlike some cb boats that have boards
only or very small keels) since I sail in the skinny NC sounds where
a 5 ft draft is often the rule in marinas, not the exception.

I Replace the pennant every 5 or so years and otherwise forgetaboutit!.
Upwind, board down, it will point with or better than any others and
downwind, board up, it will get up and go! OTOH, it likely has a
weighted board which probably weighs over 1000 lbs. Unless you are
racing, grinding the board up is not an easy job—I use a Lewmar 30
with 3:1 purchase AND my strongest crew to bring her up. Of course, as
some have noted, it is a simple matter to pin it up permantly.

Of course the kcb won’t be as fast as a deep keel of the same model
(lots more wetted surface than a fin) but there probably isn’t any
harbor in NH/ME that you could not get into, even at low tide, with
the board up.

Welcome to the list!

Charlie Nelson
1995 C 36 XL/kcb
Water Phantom

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com

On Monday, July 20, 2020, Jeffrey Brideau via
CnC-List wrote:

Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before
I introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small
craft for 35+ years but this will be our first adventure in
something no-longer trailerable. I and my wife are shopping for
an upgrade in size from our O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the
C line of boats given our budget, the perceived quality,
performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the local
market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they
may still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four
(and trucking and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast
adds a lot of costs), we have started looking at some C 40 boats
in MA/RI area. I'm not afraid of some small projects that can be
carried out while we use it or in the offseason but not interested
in a "project boat" that would need work to be safe before use.

https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/

Now for the questions:

We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one
we saw in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are
both on the hard, and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard
version. The other is a tall-rig/deep-keel. See the photos linked.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8

1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge
drain or a centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a
piece of wood, loose inside the drain that I could move with a
finger.
2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch
that I've not seen

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

You could make a long stroke ram moving a 4 part block and tackle “backwards”, 
i.e. 1 foot of ram = 4 feet of line, but then it would be pumping vs. cranking 
unless you got a trim pump from an I/O to do it with a button.
J

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charlie 
Nelson via CnC-List
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 10:59 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: cenel...@aol.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

I am hardly an expert on 'purchase' regarding hydraulics but the issue with a 
board might be that it has to be physically moved up 3-4 feet--i.e. its more 
than just the tension applied.

Charlie Nelson
36 XL/kcb Water Phantom

supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and every one is greatly 
appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution 
--  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Charlie Nelson via CnC-List

I am hardly an expert on 'purchase' regarding hydraulics but the issue with a 
board might be that it has to be physically moved up 3-4 feet--i.e. its more 
than just the tension applied.
Charlie Nelson36 XL/kcb Water Phantom

-Original Message-
From: ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
To: C 
Cc: ALAN BERGEN 
Sent: Mon, Jul 20, 2020 10:16 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

I'm not familiar with how the pennant is attached, but I'm wondering whether 
you could fit a hydraulic cylinder in place of a winch. My backstay and vang 
are hydraulic, and they are so easy to tension.
Alan Bergen35 Mk III ThirstyRose City YCPortland, OR

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:09 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
 wrote:

If draft is an issue (or might be a future issue depending on your plans for 
cruising, etc.) I would consider the cb model. 
I have a 36 XL/kcb (your 40 ft C is actually a kcb since the cb retracts into 
a serious keel, unlike some cb boats that have boards only or very small keels) 
since I sail in the skinny NC sounds where a 5 ft draft is often the rule in 
marinas, not the exception.
I Replace the pennant every 5 or so years and otherwise forgetaboutit!.Upwind, 
board down, it will point with or better than any others and downwind, board 
up, it will get up and go! OTOH, it likely has a weighted board which probably 
weighs over 1000 lbs. Unless you are racing, grinding the board up is not an 
easy job—I use a Lewmar 30 with 3:1 purchase AND my strongest crew to bring her 
up. Of course, as some have noted, it is a simple matter to pin it up permantly.
Of course the kcb won’t be as fast as a deep keel of the same model (lots more 
wetted surface than a fin) but there probably isn’t any harbor in NH/ME that 
you could not get into, even at low tide, with the board up. Welcome to the 
list!
Charlie Nelson1995 C 36 XL/kcbWater Phantom

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
 On Monday, July 20, 2020, Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List  
wrote:

Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I introduce 
our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+ years but 
this will be our first adventure in something no-longer trailerable.  I and my 
wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our O'Day 23-2 and are attracted 
to the C line of boats given our budget, the perceived quality, 
performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the local market. We 
started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it) but after looking at a 
few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may still be a bit small for our 
rapidly growing family of four (and trucking and bottom painting a boat from VT 
to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs), we have started looking at some C 40 
boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid of some small projects that can be carried 
out while we use it or in the offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  
that would need work to be safe before use.
https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/

Now for the questions:
We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw in 
the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard, and 
the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a 
tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8

1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain or a 
centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood, loose 
inside the drain that I could move with a finger.  2. On cabin top starboard, 
there appears to be a wire cable winch that I've not seen on other examples. Is 
this the centerboard pendant perhaps? 3. Is the weeping from the centerboard 
pivot access ports reasonable or expected. It may be lubricant as the broker 
suggests it was somewhat recently serviced. 
Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log sensors 
have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the description as 
features. Gelcoat seems good for its age.

We are leaning towards the centerboard model as the Marina we are targeting in 
Portland, ME has limited areas of draft to accommodate a 7.5' keel at low tide. 
However, fewer moving parts is a huge advantage as is better sailing 
performance. But, we might be forced into a less desirable marina or have a low 
tide +/- 1hr time block for coming or going from the marina.
Last general question and ask for advice, what is the mast step situation on 
either of these boats and apart from waterlogged cores in the deck and hull, 
what are the critical points of interest to a new buyer that thinks he is 
somewhat savvy. 
All polite thoughts welcomed. 
Best regards,Jeff___

Thanks everyone for

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

I focus on the sailing ability in selecting a boat.  If you sail in a steady 
high winds, go big.  But if you are more like the rest of us and have low wind 
predominantly, I would steer toward the smallest, lightest model C that still 
has just enough interior to accommodate my family.  Smaller, lighter, hulls 
move first as the wind builds from a calm while heavier boats struggle until 
the wind gets up over 10 knots.  It takes much less wind to move a 10,000# boat 
than a 20,000# one.  Even less to move a 5000# boat like a 27 footer which has 
standing headroom and can be trailered home for the winter.  They will all sail 
to hullspeed once the wind reaches about 12 knots and then the longer waterline 
boat has a speed advantage, but under 10 knots which is predominantly what we 
sail in, the lighter boats win and are easier to singlehand and dock, etc.  
Check out this video of a C 99, a 32 footer catching a J109 and two Navy 44 
footers in a race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBKifuS60Go

I also prefer the C 34/36 model as I own the racing version w vee berths 
(removable for racing) and settee berths, pilot beths, a full width aft berth 
and two pipe berths.  We rate faster than the 40 and the bigger sister, the 
37/40 rates faster still, though I think the 34/36 was an improvement over it. 
Check out the brochures on Stu's cncphotoalbum.com


Chuck Scheaffer Resolute 1989 C 34R Pasadena, Md



> On 07/21/2020 9:55 AM Nathan Post via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Welcome Jeff,
> 
> Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat 
> compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is 
> bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated to 
> sail - does it have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean 
> Phoenix does have running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does not. 
>  Not a big deal for long passages, but we tend to go out to tool around for 
> an evening tacking and jibing a dozen times in the process or go sail around 
> the islands outside of Marblehead and Beverly and I would prefer to sail 
> rather than motor whenever possible if there is any wind (which is why it is 
> nice to have a light C that will move in light air).  Dockage, hauling and 
> winter storage all scale with length too.  If offshore passages are your plan 
> then the bigger boat is likely a better choice and you want to pay attention 
> to the stability numbers as well, and a C may not be the right choice at 
> all (although I am sure there are those on this list who would differ).
> 
> Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price range is going 
> to need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging work, sails (likely at 
> some point) and replacements over the coming years. We have a 34 KCB and it 
> is a nice size for us and is easy for my wife and me to handle (we don't have 
> or fly a spin although I am looking to add an asymmetrical at some point). If 
> I was to do it again I might look for a 34+ or 34/36 which is a little larger 
> and has a newer style interior layout with a separate shower from the head I 
> believe.  While that would have been more money up front, but as I put 10+k 
> into improvements plus lots of time each year it would not have made a big 
> difference in the long run.  My boat budget ends up around $20/year, about 
> half of which is slip, hauling, winter storage and insurance, and the other 
> half is maintenance and upgrades.  The first year we had the sails cleaned 
> and repaired for $600, had the prop rebuilt for $500, new water heater, new 
> head plumbing, new bilge pumps, new foam for the cushions (which I restuffed 
> myself, etc.), etc. etc..  Last year we got new cruising sails for $6k and 
> some new lines, new water pump, inflatable life jackets, etc..  This year it 
> was quite a bit more (I haven't kept track) because we had the rod-rigging 
> re-ended and needed a new furler and I repaired soft spots in the deck, 
> repainted and refit the entire deck and included replacing winches with self 
> tailers and added a custom bow roller I designed and sent out to a machine 
> shop along with a new anchor and rode.  I am glad she is only 34ft long 
> rather than 40!  Can you do it for a bit less - yes likely - but it is also 
> nice to be able to improve things and make them better suit your needs and be 
> prepared for the furler that breaks and isn't repairable type expenses.  Slip 
> and such are probably a bit less up in Maine than in the Boston area, but it 
> all adds up.
> 
> Actually from my experience, and what I have read/learned since, you are 
> much better off spending more money now to get a boat that the previous owner 
> put a lot into upgrading and fixing then a previously neglected boat like I 
> did.  Like you we wanted to get into a 30+ ft cruising boat at the low end of 
> the price point (we paid $7500 for Wisper in 2018) and I do

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

This below was the source of some marital discussions. If you include family 
boats I have never in my entire life NOT had a boat, so large amounts of time 
and later money devoted to boat upkeep was something I never DIDN’T do. I used 
to get signed out of school as a kid for “family events” like sanding the 
bottom.  I have a photo someplace of my 9 year old self covered in green bottom 
paint dust.
My wife had no such background and it took some adjusting!! Make sure the 
Admiral is all-in on this operation ;)


Joe Della Barba Coquina C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



From: Richard Bush [mailto:bushma...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 9:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

This is in response to (actually in support of) Joe's "numbers" post; I have a 
37 and experience the same type of costs; I'm on a river and I built my own 
boat dock for about 15Gs...; just to know my boat was safe and secure; my 
purpose in joining in is to say,
don't let these numbers put you off;
In spite of the scary numbers, I love my boat and it is worth every penny to 
me; it becomes your lifestyle and thus the cost becomes the same as rent, 
food, utilities and other daily expenses...

Richard

Richard N. Bush Law Offices
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255

___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List

Hi Jeff

I believe having run motorhomes and the like you already know about costs but I 
would like to add one thing.  My father having had 35+ foot motorhomes and 36 
foot sailboats (C of course) that he bought new in the day always said that 
he put aside 10% of the purchase price of the motorhome/boat annually for 
boat/motorhome expenses.

10% is a lot!  The thing to remember is that an older sailboat does not have 
expenses in line with the $27,000 purchase price but with those of a brand new 
40 foot boat.  A new equivalent of a C 40 would be close to $300,000 CAD so 
expenses while not necessarily 10% of that will be quite high.  So long as you 
are prepared for that you are in good shape.

To put in perspective our 1987 33 foot boat costs me $6500/year for just 
club/marina fees and insurance.  That cost stays even if I never use the boat.  
On a 40 foot with marina prices based on LOA and winter storage prices based on 
square footage LOA x max beam the costs are considerably more than that.  Then 
there are the fun things that we do to 30 year old boats.  New cabin sole, 
upgraded electronics, replaced sails/dodgers/biminis/cushions etc … and of 
course the inevitable repairs to fix results of our stupidity that occasionally 
 happen.

We started with a 23 foot boat.  It was cheap to own and very cramped inside.

We now have a lovely 33 foot boat.  It costs both arms and one leg to keep.  
However it is very comfortable inside and we love it

Have fun.  The 40 is a great boat.  Raced on one from Marblehead to Halifax one 
year and it was very comfortable offshore.

Mike Hoyt
Persistence
1987 Frers 33 #16
Halifax, Nova Scotia
www.hoytsailing.com

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of Jeffrey Brideau via 
CnC-List
Sent: July 20, 2020 6:38 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Jeffrey Brideau 
Subject: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I introduce 
our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+ years but 
this will be our first adventure in something no-longer trailerable.  I and my 
wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our O'Day 23-2 and are attracted 
to the C line of boats given our budget, the perceived quality, 
performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the local market. We 
started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it) but after looking at a 
few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may still be a bit small for our 
rapidly growing family of four (and trucking and bottom painting a boat from VT 
to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs), we have started looking at some C 40 
boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid of some small projects that can be carried 
out while we use it or in the offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  
that would need work to be safe before use.

https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/

Now for the questions:

We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw in 
the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard, and 
the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a 
tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8

1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain or a 
centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood, loose 
inside the drain that I could move with a finger.
2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that I've not 
seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps?
3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or 
expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat recently 
serviced.

Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log sensors 
have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the description as 
features. Gelcoat seems good for its age.

We are leaning towards the centerboard model as the Marina we are targeting in 
Portland, ME has limited areas of draft to accommodate a 7.5' keel at low tide. 
However, fewer moving parts is a huge advantage as is better sailing 
performance. But, we might be forced into a less desirable marina or have a low 
tide +/- 1hr time block for coming or going from the marina.

Last general question and ask for advice, what is the mast step situation on 
either of these boats and apart from waterlogged cores in the deck and hull, 
what are the critical points of interest to a new buyer that thinks he is 
somewhat savvy.

All polite thoughts welcomed.

Best regards,
Jeff
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Stus-List Jabsco 43990-0061 rebuild kit

2020-07-21 Thread David Risch via CnC-List

New old stock.  If want let me know for a Stu donation.

Sent from my Android. Please forgive typos. Thank you.

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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Nathan Post via CnC-List

Welcome Jeff,

Something to keep in mind is that a 40 is almost twice as much boat
compared to a 34 or 35 (18000+ lbs rather than 1 or so. Everything is
bigger, heavier and more expensive.   And it can also get more complicated
to sail - does it have running backstays?  I think that a 38 such as Ocean
Phoenix does have running backstays - not sure about the 40.  My 34 does
not.  Not a big deal for long passages, but we tend to go out to tool
around for an evening tacking and jibing a dozen times in the process or go
sail around the islands outside of Marblehead and Beverly and I would
prefer to sail rather than motor whenever possible if there is any wind
(which is why it is nice to have a light C that will move in light air).
Dockage, hauling and winter storage all scale with length too.  If offshore
passages are your plan then the bigger boat is likely a better choice and
you want to pay attention to the stability numbers as well, and a C may
not be the right choice at all (although I am sure there are those on this
list who would differ).

Any 30-40 ft keelboat boat in the under $2 sale price range is going to
need a lot of TLC, fiberglass work, paint, rigging work, sails (likely at
some point) and replacements over the coming years. We have a 34 KCB and it
is a nice size for us and is easy for my wife and me to handle (we don't
have or fly a spin although I am looking to add an asymmetrical at some
point). If I was to do it again I might look for a 34+ or 34/36 which is a
little larger and has a newer style interior layout with a separate shower
from the head I believe.  While that would have been more money up front,
but as I put 10+k into improvements plus lots of time each year it would
not have made a big difference in the long run.  My boat budget ends up
around $20/year, about half of which is slip, hauling, winter storage and
insurance, and the other half is maintenance and upgrades.  The first year
we had the sails cleaned and repaired for $600, had the prop rebuilt for
$500, new water heater, new head plumbing, new bilge pumps, new foam for
the cushions (which I restuffed myself, etc.), etc. etc..  Last year we got
new cruising sails for $6k and some new lines, new water pump, inflatable
life jackets, etc..  This year it was quite a bit more (I haven't kept
track) because we had the rod-rigging re-ended and needed a new furler and
I repaired soft spots in the deck, repainted and refit the entire deck and
included replacing winches with self tailers and added a custom bow roller
I designed and sent out to a machine shop along with a new anchor and
rode.  I am glad she is only 34ft long rather than 40!  Can you do it for a
bit less - yes likely - but it is also nice to be able to improve things
and make them better suit your needs and be prepared for the furler that
breaks and isn't repairable type expenses.  Slip and such are probably a
bit less up in Maine than in the Boston area, but it all adds up.

Actually from my experience, and what I have read/learned since, you are
much better off spending more money now to get a boat that the previous
owner put a lot into upgrading and fixing then a previously neglected boat
like I did.  Like you we wanted to get into a 30+ ft cruising boat at the
low end of the price point (we paid $7500 for Wisper in 2018) and I do
enjoy working on it almost as much as sailing so there is that.  Initially
this approach is tempting with lots of old neglected boats in the market,
but I wouldn’t likely do that again now that I am into "big boat"
ownership.  I would likely still get a 40 year old boat again if/when it
comes time to upgrade, but I would look for one that someone else did a lot
of upgrading on recently and happily pay more for it (there will still be
plenty to do and change over the years).  On the other hand, I am learning
a ton as I try things on this boat and learn what I like and don't like and
I am not sure if we would have bought a boat at all if I had proposed a
larger budget to my wife initially.  And there is also satisfaction in
bringing a good boat back from the brink of the scrap yard.

Anyway, that is my two cents.  Good luck!

Nathan
- -
Nathan Post
S/V Wisper
1981 C 34 KCB
Lynn MA
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Richard Bush via CnC-List

 This is in response to (actually in support of) Joe's "numbers" post; I have a 
37 and experience the same type of costs; I'm on a river and I built my own 
boat dock for about 15Gs...; just to know my boat was safe and secure; my 
purpose in joining in is to say, 
don't let these numbers put you off;
In spite of the scary numbers, I love my boat and it is worth every penny to 
me; it becomes your lifestyle and thus the cost becomes the same as rent, 
food, utilities and other daily expenses... 
 
Richard
 
Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Sent: Tue, Jul 21, 2020 9:26 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

 The reason we are collectively giving a bit 
of warning is you are about to jump into a whole new world of both much bigger 
$$$ and much bigger forces. Not to say it isn’t worth it, but it helps to know 
what you are getting into. To start with, the loads on a 40 foot boat are 
exponentially bigger than a 23 foot boat. Accidents can be very expensive and 
they can be lethal. Maintenance likewise can be financially lethal. I’ll get 
into the cash aspect here first. Everything scales up by the foot, pound, and 
square yard. Slips cost more, haulouts cost more, bottom paint costs more, 
sails cost more, engines cost more, even cushions cost more. There are things 
you don’t even think of like batteries. It is easy to spend over $1,000 on 
batteries alone!  These are all OLD BOATS now and you always have the potential 
for repairs that cost a good fraction of what the boat is worth. You also have 
to add the DIY factor. Most of us this list do a lot of DIY repairs. I could 
never ever afford to keep my boat floating if I had to pay anyone to maintain 
her. My wife sometimes questions my sanity when I come home exhausted with a 
few bloodstains on my shirt, epoxy stuck to my arm, and tell her how much I 
love sailingJ I could not even begin to make something like a spreadsheet. If I 
saw the hard numbers, it would probably scare me off sailing for good! I’ll 
give you a rough guess here and this is for a 35 foot boat. Fixed costs: Slip: 
$2400/yr. I have a good deal, it can be a LOT more! Insurance: Around $600/yr. 
This is the rock-bottom minimum for the boat to just float in one spot and not 
move. Electricity: What, you didn’t think you would have an electric bill? 
You’re in the big leagues now! About $10/month in summer, it has hit $60 in 
really cold months between the cabin heat and ice-eater.  Fuel: Somewhere 
between 50 and 150 gallons of fuel in a year, depending on where we go and how 
much wind there is. Repairs/upgrades/etc. This is HUGELY variable. I cannot 
imagine a year without at least a few hundred bucks in random stuff I don’t 
even keep track of. Over the years I have done things like: Rewire the boat – I 
think I was about $3,000 or so in supplies on that one. Batteries – The house 
battery is about $600 or so for a 4D. The engine start battery is about $150. 
Engine – I am on my third engine. The first one lasted for 20 years until salt 
water corroded it to death. We bought a used replacement that was not that good 
and that one got junked for a really nice rebuilt engine that was a hobby 
project for a laid off chief engineer waiting for his ship to get out of 
drydock. My expenses on this were incredibly low by boat standards because I 
have an Atomic 4 gasoline engine. They are somewhat plentiful used compared to 
many and I got each engine for under $2000 and *did all the work myself*. A 
shop installing a rebuilt Atomic 4 would likely bill you around $6,000 or more. 
I got quotes for diesel engine replacements in the $12K and up range! Note a 
C 40 does not use the A4, swapping that diesel out if it dies would be well 
over $10K if you pay to have it done. Even totally DIY, used diesels that fit 
your boat and are not junk are not easy to find and usually not cheap either. 
Sails – they get worn out. They are not cheap. Used sails to fit a furler are 
very hard to find, no one wants to get rid of them. I got incredibly lucky when 
I got the sails from a dismasted 35 in great shape, but you can’t count on 
that. I was racing a C 40 up a windy river under chute with my soon-to-be 
wife and the 40 could not get past us for a while, they were slower under jib. 
Then a gust came across the river, our sail turned into mulit-colored nylon 
confetti, the 40 passed us, and I had to explain that was several thousand 
dollars’ worth of pretty colors flying all over the place. Bottom paint is not 
every year for me and I do it myself, even so that usually adds up to a 
kilobuck more or less with yard fees and supplies. I had to remove the mast 
once and rebuild the mast step. That too probably got close to a kilobuck if 
not more and that was me doing 100% of the work, but I

Re: Stus-List Bilge pump check valve

2020-07-21 Thread Dennis C. via CnC-List

Install a Bosworth Sea-Lect check valve or very similar.  When you install
it orient it so the hinge on the valve is at the top.

I've had one in Touche' for about 20 years with no issues.

-- 
Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 8:14 AM David Knecht via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I had a periodic problem with water coming in the bilge pump under certain
> conditions.  It seems that when the bilge pump outlet was under water,
> usually when motoring, water could flow under pressure through the bilge
> pump.  This seemed not to be a siphon, but a water pressure situation since
> it stopped when the boat slowed down (making it difficult to diagnose, of
> course).  I installed a check valve in the bilge pump line and the problem
> stopped for several years.  It happened again last weekend while motor
> sailing in swells, so I am planning to replace the check valve.  I vaguely
> remember someone suggesting a particular brand of check valve as working
> particularaly well, but I can’t find the post.  Reviews I have seen on
> various sites have complaints about all of them, so hard to choose. I think
> I have the Whale no-return valve now.   Anyone have a brand suggestion?
> Thanks- Dave
>
> David Knecht
> S/V Aries
> 1990 C 34+
> New London, CT
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

The reason we are collectively giving a bit of warning is you are about to jump 
into a whole new world of both much bigger $$$ and much bigger forces. Not to 
say it isn’t worth it, but it helps to know what you are getting into.
To start with, the loads on a 40 foot boat are exponentially bigger than a 23 
foot boat. Accidents can be very expensive and they can be lethal. Maintenance 
likewise can be financially lethal.
I’ll get into the cash aspect here first. Everything scales up by the foot, 
pound, and square yard. Slips cost more, haulouts cost more, bottom paint costs 
more, sails cost more, engines cost more, even cushions cost more. There are 
things you don’t even think of like batteries. It is easy to spend over $1,000 
on batteries alone!  These are all OLD BOATS now and you always have the 
potential for repairs that cost a good fraction of what the boat is worth. You 
also have to add the DIY factor. Most of us this list do a lot of DIY repairs. 
I could never ever afford to keep my boat floating if I had to pay anyone to 
maintain her. My wife sometimes questions my sanity when I come home exhausted 
with a few bloodstains on my shirt, epoxy stuck to my arm, and tell her how 
much I love sailing ☺
I could not even begin to make something like a spreadsheet. If I saw the hard 
numbers, it would probably scare me off sailing for good! I’ll give you a rough 
guess here and this is for a 35 foot boat.
Fixed costs:
Slip: $2400/yr. I have a good deal, it can be a LOT more!
Insurance: Around $600/yr.
This is the rock-bottom minimum for the boat to just float in one spot and not 
move.
Electricity: What, you didn’t think you would have an electric bill? You’re in 
the big leagues now! About $10/month in summer, it has hit $60 in really cold 
months between the cabin heat and ice-eater.
Fuel: Somewhere between 50 and 150 gallons of fuel in a year, depending on 
where we go and how much wind there is.
Repairs/upgrades/etc.
This is HUGELY variable. I cannot imagine a year without at least a few hundred 
bucks in random stuff I don’t even keep track of.
Over the years I have done things like:
Rewire the boat – I think I was about $3,000 or so in supplies on that one.
Batteries – The house battery is about $600 or so for a 4D. The engine start 
battery is about $150.
Engine – I am on my third engine. The first one lasted for 20 years until salt 
water corroded it to death. We bought a used replacement that was not that good 
and that one got junked for a really nice rebuilt engine that was a hobby 
project for a laid off chief engineer waiting for his ship to get out of 
drydock. My expenses on this were incredibly low by boat standards because I 
have an Atomic 4 gasoline engine. They are somewhat plentiful used compared to 
many and I got each engine for under $2000 and *did all the work myself*. A 
shop installing a rebuilt Atomic 4 would likely bill you around $6,000 or more. 
I got quotes for diesel engine replacements in the $12K and up range! Note a 
C 40 does not use the A4, swapping that diesel out if it dies would be well 
over $10K if you pay to have it done. Even totally DIY, used diesels that fit 
your boat and are not junk are not easy to find and usually not cheap either.
Sails – they get worn out. They are not cheap. Used sails to fit a furler are 
very hard to find, no one wants to get rid of them. I got incredibly lucky when 
I got the sails from a dismasted 35 in great shape, but you can’t count on 
that. I was racing a C 40 up a windy river under chute with my soon-to-be 
wife and the 40 could not get past us for a while, they were slower under jib. 
Then a gust came across the river, our sail turned into mulit-colored nylon 
confetti, the 40 passed us, and I had to explain that was several thousand 
dollars’ worth of pretty colors flying all over the place.
Bottom paint is not every year for me and I do it myself, even so that usually 
adds up to a kilobuck more or less with yard fees and supplies. I had to remove 
the mast once and rebuild the mast step. That too probably got close to a 
kilobuck if not more and that was me doing 100% of the work, but I can’t haul a 
boat and remove the mast myself, there are still yard fees. That would have 
easily been a $5K job or more if I paid the yard.
I have fixed the head, replaced the head, replaced seacocks, replaced bilge 
pumps, replaced water pumps, replaced instruments, replaced keel bolt backing 
plates, replaced port hole Plexiglas, and 1000 other things I can’t even 
remember right now. We are starting cushion replacement. I got a big memory 
foam king mattress and carved it into a v-berth mattress so far. If I just pay 
the local shop the rest of the interior will be $4K or so.
Canvas is not forever, the dodger and bimini are wear items and eventually that 
will be a few thousand bucks again.

The best quote on boat expenses is from a buddy – “it costs all you have”. You 
can easily find $100,000 of improvements to a 40 foot boat

Stus-List Bilge pump check valve

2020-07-21 Thread David Knecht via CnC-List

I had a periodic problem with water coming in the bilge pump under certain 
conditions.  It seems that when the bilge pump outlet was under water, usually 
when motoring, water could flow under pressure through the bilge pump.  This 
seemed not to be a siphon, but a water pressure situation since it stopped when 
the boat slowed down (making it difficult to diagnose, of course).  I installed 
a check valve in the bilge pump line and the problem stopped for several years. 
 It happened again last weekend while motor sailing in swells, so I am planning 
to replace the check valve.  I vaguely remember someone suggesting a particular 
brand of check valve as working particularaly well, but I can’t find the post.  
Reviews I have seen on various sites have complaints about all of them, so hard 
to choose. I think I have the Whale no-return valve now.   Anyone have a brand 
suggestion?  Thanks- Dave

David Knecht
S/V Aries
1990 C 34+
New London, CT



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Re: Stus-List Parting an ‘89 30’ CNC

2020-07-21 Thread JP Mail via CnC-List

Boat looked good to me. Just dirty from sitting in the yard. No cradle/stands. 
Some repairs had been made/attempted to fore and aft edge of keel. Maybe that 
was the reason for abandonment.
Boat is at King Marine Salvage
In Verplanck NY on the Hudson River. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2020, at 12:42 AM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am interested in some items too, though I can never remember at the moment. 
> A parted parts list would be great. Is there a good condition mainsail? Was 
> the boat wrecked or abandoned to neglect? Where is the boat located? Thank 
> you!
> 
> 
> Kevin Driscoll
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 2:03 PM Allan Rheaume via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Is there a website with details about this boat? How to go about purchasing 
>> parts, etc?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Al Rheaume
>> 30-2 Drumroll
>> 
>> On Friday, July 17, 2020, 04:32:07 p.m. EDT, JP Mail via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I’m standing in the salvage yard.
>> All kinds of everything for 
>> ZCC30148B989
>> King Salvage. 
>> I live 10 Minutes away.
>> Motor is not seized. 3 GM  i think. 
>> Jon
>> jon.peterpr...@gmail.com
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
>> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
>> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List TV antenna options

2020-07-21 Thread Robert Boyer via CnC-List

I mounted my TV antenna on the mast, on the top starboard side.  It works great 
and I think the height is a big advantage.  I was able to use it the entire 
length of the ICW.

Bob

Bob Boyer
s/v Rainy Days
C Landfall 38 (Hull # 230)
(Spending winters in the Bahamas, summers in Baltimore, and somewhere on the 
ICW in between)
blog: dainyrays.blogspot.com
email: dainyr...@icloud.com

> On Jul 20, 2020, at 10:31 PM, Charlie Nelson via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello all;
> 
> I added a 19" TV to my boat anticipating some cruising in the future. It fits 
> nicely on the port side forward bulkhead above the settee facing aft. I even 
> found an ac outlet nearby for power.
> 
> I have been advised by locals who have TVs aboard to go with a omni 
> directional antenna, which makes sense to me, and to mount it outside the 
> cabin.
> 
> Most of these antennae are disc-shaped of various diameters, meant to be 
> mounted with the disk parallel to the water surface. 
> 
> The question is where to mount it, even if its removable when underway or 
> racing. The TV is closer to the bow than stern so the bow pulpit might 
> work--I don't see mounting it high or anywhere on the mast. OTOH, maybe the 
> stern pulpit would be OK. My thought is to keep it stowed while underway and 
> attach it to a permanent fitting somewhere outside the cabin when I am at a 
> marina.
> 
> Any ideas from listers on where to put the antenna?
> 
> Charlie Nelson
> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> Water Phantom
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
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Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List

FWIW, my wife often says she liked our 34 better than the 42 Custom.  She is 
intimidated by the size and power of the bigger boat, especially when the wind 
builds.  She thinks it was easier for the two of us to take out the smaller 
boat (true). Personally, I like the bigger boat now that I’m used to her.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 21, 2020, at 8:13 AM, rjcasciato--- via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Jeff, did I miss where you are located??
> And is that where you will be keeping and sailing the boat??
> Ron
> rjcasci...@comcast.net 
> 
> 
> Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> 
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: bride...@gmail.com
> Sent: 2020-07-21 6:31:05 AM 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
> 
> Hi Ron,
> 
> Thanks for the words of caution. We are definitely balancing the size 
> situation and appreciate a 40 will be over 5X larger than our 23 and would 
> love the opportunity to sail on one prior to purchasing if that were an 
> option.
> 
> I'm selling a 40' diesel motorhome that costs us an arm and a leg in repairs 
> and maintenance (~$5000 in just the past few weeks) in exchange for this 
> "money pit" but would be very interested in what your annual cost may have 
> been. I've been building a spreadsheet to estimate annual costs especially 
> now that we will be paying for a slip. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Jeff
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:11 PM rjcasciato--- via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Hello Jeffrey..first, welcome to the listmost of us on the C list 
>> will keep our boats to the "end", unless we're upgrading to a larger C
>> I own a 77' 38MKII, hull #125. I've owned Impromptu for 23 years
>> Your decision to get into a big "old" boat needs careful assessment of your 
>> finances and the amount of work you are willing to do.virtually none of 
>> us here don't work to keep our boats sailing like they were built...
>> You don't want to know how much money that chews up in 23 years...
>> BUT, IMPROMPTU LOOKS LIKE IT JUST CAME OUT OF THE MOLD YESTERDAY
>> and sails way better than it did when it left Canada for Chicago in 1977.
>> My wife doesn't do wind, sun, and noise
>> So this 38 MKII raceshard and well with a seasoned crew of 6.
>> I don't suggest you think about that until later when you have enough 
>> crew
>> Speaking of crew.are you planning to sail the 40 with only you and your 
>> wife Things are much bigger on a 40 than on an ODay 23.the mast 
>> alone approaches twice the height.
>> I would be glad to share some of the "annual base costs" for you to 
>> consider
>> My opinion is that the 35 should be big enough for this next moveand 
>> cruisable in "nice" weather for two
>> I'd be interested in some of the veteran C'ers opinion and what are some 
>> of the comparative issues of making this big jump.
>> Something to consider..the guy who designed my 38 and all of those 40's, 
>> and all of the rest of the good years C's drives a 34..think about 
>> that first
>> Making a move away from the ODay is a no brainer.just you and your wife 
>> sail a 40 firstwith safety crew sitting by. 
>> Again, welcome to this group.we all love our C's.
>> Ron C.
>> IMPROMPTU
>> C 38MKIIC
>> 1977#125
>> 
>> Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> 
>> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Cc: bride...@gmail.com
>> Sent: 2020-07-20 5:38:36 PM 
>> Subject: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>> 
>> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I 
>> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+ 
>> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer 
>> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our 
>> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the 
>> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the 
>> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it) but 
>> after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may still be 
>> a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking and bottom 
>> painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs), we have 
>> started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid of some 
>> small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the offseason 
>> but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to be safe 
>> before use.
>> 
>> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
>> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>> 
>> Now for the questions:
>> 
>> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw in 
>> the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread rjcasciato--- via CnC-List

Jeff, did I miss where you are located??And is that where you will be keeping and sailing the boat??Ronrjcasci...@comcast.net Sent from Xfinity Connect Application-Original Message-From: cnc-list@cnc-list.comTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: bride...@gmail.comSent: 2020-07-21 6:31:05 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
Hi Ron,Thanks for the words of caution. We are definitely balancing the size situation and appreciate a 40 will be over 5X larger than our 23 and would love the opportunity to sail on one prior to purchasing if that were an option.I'm selling a 40' diesel motorhome that costs us an arm and a leg in repairs and maintenance (~$5000 in just the past few weeks) in exchange for this "money pit" but would be very interested in what your annual cost may have been. I've been building a spreadsheet to estimate annual costs especially now that we will be paying for a slip. Thanks,JeffOn Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:11 PM rjcasciato--- via CnC-List  wrote:Hello Jeffrey..first, welcome to the listmost of us on the C list will keep  our boats to the "end", unless we're upgrading to a larger CI own a 77' 38MKII, hull #125. I've owned Impromptu for 23 yearsYour decision to get into a big "old" boat needs careful assessment of your finances and the amount of work you are willing to do.virtually none of us here don't work to keep our boats sailing like they were built...You don't want to know how much money  that chews up in 23 years...BUT, IMPROMPTU LOOKS LIKE IT JUST CAME OUT OF THE MOLD YESTERDAYand sails way better than it did when it left Canada for Chicago in 1977.My wife doesn't do wind, sun, and noiseSo this 38 MKII raceshard and well with a seasoned crew of 6.I don't suggest you think about that until later when you have enough crewSpeaking of crew.are you planning to sail the 40 with only you and your wife Things are much bigger on a 40 than on an ODay 23.the mast alone approaches twice the height.I would be glad to share some of the "annual base costs" for you to considerMy opinion is that the 35 should be big enough for this next moveand cruisable in "nice" weather for twoI'd be interested in some of the veteran C'ers opinion and what are some of the comparative issues of making this big jump.Something to consider..the guy who designed my 38 and all of those 40's, and all of the rest of the good years C's drives a 34..think about that firstMaking a move away from the ODay is a no brainer.just you and your wife sail a 40 firstwith safety crew sitting by. Again, welcome to this group.we all love our C's.Ron C.IMPROMPTUC 38MKIIC1977#125Sent from Xfinity Connect Application-Original Message-From: cnc-list@cnc-list.comTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comCc: bride...@gmail.comSent: 2020-07-20 5:38:36 PM Subject: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+ years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it) but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs), we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to be safe before use.https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236="">https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/Now for the questions:We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard, and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP81. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain or a centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood, loose inside the drain that I could move with a finger.  2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that I've not seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps? 3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat recently serviced. Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry.

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

2020-07-21 Thread George Cone via CnC-List

Standard 40 is 7' 6" the DJ is 10" deeper

Get Outlook for Android

From: CnC-List  on behalf of Jeffrey Brideau via 
CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 6:35:18 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Jeffrey Brideau 
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Hi George,

Is it a misprint that the max draft is 7'6" ? The number your quoting sounds 
like the max draft for CB down on the CB model according the brochure.

I'm familiar with wet decks, our O'Day has plenty.

Thanks,
Jeff

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:43 PM George Cone via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Jeff,
I have one of the deep keel 40s and keep in mind it needs 8.40 feet of water 
not 7.

Also. Don't minimize the wet decks. That can add up quick.

As for sailing the 40 is fine but it really is a one cabin boat unless you know 
the others very well.

I sail it up in lake champlain where the water is deep so it's great

George Cone
1981 40

Get Outlook for Android

From: CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>> on behalf 
of Nate Flesness via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:00:42 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Nate Flesness mailto:nateflesn...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

I own a 30-1, but have chartered a tall rig 40, with the deep keel.
Sailing it was like a freight train... the most amazing speed and 
ground-covering ability I have ever dealt with.
Still brings a smile thinking about it.
That said, I thought the interior was set up for a racing crew more than 
cruisers, but thats just a personal preference.

Good luck

Nate

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 4:38 PM Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I introduce 
our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+ years but 
this will be our first adventure in something no-longer trailerable.  I and my 
wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our O'Day 23-2 and are attracted 
to the C line of boats given our budget, the perceived quality, 
performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the local market. We 
started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it) but after looking at a 
few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may still be a bit small for our 
rapidly growing family of four (and trucking and bottom painting a boat from VT 
to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs), we have started looking at some C 40 
boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid of some small projects that can be carried 
out while we use it or in the offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  
that would need work to be safe before use.

https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/

Now for the questions:

We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw in 
the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard, and 
the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a 
tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8

1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain or a 
centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood, loose 
inside the drain that I could move with a finger.
2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that I've not 
seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps?
3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or 
expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat recently 
serviced.

Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log sensors 
have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the description as 
features. Gelcoat seems good for its age.

We are leaning towards the centerboard model as the Marina we are targeting in 
Portland, ME has limited areas of draft to accommodate a 7.5' keel at low tide. 
However, fewer moving parts is a huge advantage as is better sailing 
performance. But, we might be forced into a less desirable marina or have a low 
tide +/- 1hr time block for coming or going from the marina.

Last general question and ask for advice, what is the mast step situation on 
either of these boats and apart from waterlogged cores in the deck and hull, 
what are the critical points of interest to a new buyer that thinks he is 
somewhat savvy.

All polite thoughts welcomed.

Best regards,
Jeff
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Hi George,

Is it a misprint that the max draft is 7'6" ? The number your quoting
sounds like the max draft for CB down on the CB model according the
brochure.

I'm familiar with wet decks, our O'Day has plenty.

Thanks,
Jeff

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:43 PM George Cone via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Jeff,
> I have one of the deep keel 40s and keep in mind it needs 8.40 feet of
> water not 7.
>
> Also. Don't minimize the wet decks. That can add up quick.
>
> As for sailing the 40 is fine but it really is a one cabin boat unless you
> know the others very well.
>
> I sail it up in lake champlain where the water is deep so it's great
>
> George Cone
> 1981 40
>
> Get Outlook for Android 
>
> --
> *From:* CnC-List  on behalf of Nate
> Flesness via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Monday, July 20, 2020 8:00:42 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> *Cc:* Nate Flesness 
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
> I own a 30-1, but have chartered a tall rig 40, with the deep keel.
> Sailing it was like a freight train... the most amazing speed and
> ground-covering ability I have ever dealt with.
> Still brings a smile thinking about it.
> That said, I thought the interior was set up for a racing crew more than
> cruisers, but thats just a personal preference.
>
> Good luck
>
> Nate
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 4:38 PM Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I
> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+
> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer
> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our
> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the
> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the
> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
> but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may
> still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking
> and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs),
> we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid
> of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the
> offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to
> be safe before use.
>
>
> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>
> Now for the questions:
>
> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw
> in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard,
> and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a
> tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8
>
> 1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain or
> a centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood,
> loose inside the drain that I could move with a finger.
> 2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that
> I've not seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps?
> 3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or
> expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat
> recently serviced.
>
> Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log
> sensors have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the
> description as features. Gelcoat seems good for its age.
>
> We are leaning towards the centerboard model as the Marina we are
> targeting in Portland, ME has limited areas of draft to accommodate a 7.5'
> keel at low tide. However, fewer moving parts is a huge advantage as is
> better sailing performance. But, we might be forced into a less
> desirable marina or have a low tide +/- 1hr time block for coming or going
> from the marina.
>
> Last general question and ask for advice, what is the mast step situation
> on either of these boats and apart from waterlogged cores in the deck and
> hull, what are the critical points of interest to a new buyer that thinks
> he is somewhat savvy.
>
> All polite thoughts welcomed.
>
> Best regards,
> Jeff
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

That's an interesting idea.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:17 PM ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I'm not familiar with how the pennant is attached, but I'm wondering
> whether you could fit a hydraulic cylinder in place of a winch. My backstay
> and vang are hydraulic, and they are so easy to tension.
>
> Alan Bergen
> 35 Mk III Thirsty
> Rose City YC
> Portland, OR
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:09 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> If draft is an issue (or might be a future issue depending on your plans
>> for cruising, etc.) I would consider the cb model.
>>
>> I have a 36 XL/kcb (your 40 ft C is actually a kcb since the cb
>> retracts into a serious keel, unlike some cb boats that have boards only or
>> very small keels) since I sail in the skinny NC sounds where a 5 ft draft
>> is often the rule in marinas, not the exception.
>>
>> I Replace the pennant every 5 or so years and otherwise forgetaboutit!.
>> Upwind, board down, it will point with or better than any others and
>> downwind, board up, it will get up and go! OTOH, it likely has a weighted
>> board which probably weighs over 1000 lbs. Unless you are racing, grinding
>> the board up is not an easy job—I use a Lewmar 30 with 3:1 purchase AND my
>> strongest crew to bring her up. Of course, as some have noted, it is a
>> simple matter to pin it up permantly.
>>
>> Of course the kcb won’t be as fast as a deep keel of the same model (lots
>> more wetted surface than a fin) but there probably isn’t any harbor in
>> NH/ME that you could not get into, even at low tide, with the board up.
>>
>> Welcome to the list!
>>
>> Charlie Nelson
>> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
>> Water Phantom
>>
>> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
>> Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
>> 
>>
>> On Monday, July 20, 2020, Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I
>> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+
>> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer
>> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our
>> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the
>> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the
>> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
>> but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may
>> still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking
>> and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs),
>> we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid
>> of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the
>> offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to
>> be safe before use.
>>
>>
>> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
>> 
>> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>> 
>>
>> Now for the questions:
>>
>> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw
>> in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard,
>> and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a
>> tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8
>> 
>>
>> 1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain
>> or a centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood,
>> loose inside the drain that I could move with a finger.
>> 2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that
>> I've not seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps?
>> 3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or
>> expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat
>> recently serviced.
>>
>> Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log
>> sensors have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the
>> description as features. Gelcoat seems good for its age.
>>
>> We are leaning towards

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the words of caution. We are definitely balancing the size
situation and appreciate a 40 will be over 5X larger than our 23 and would
love the opportunity to sail on one prior to purchasing if that were an
option.

I'm selling a 40' diesel motorhome that costs us an arm and a leg in
repairs and maintenance (~$5000 in just the past few weeks) in exchange for
this "money pit" but would be very interested in what your annual cost may
have been. I've been building a spreadsheet to estimate annual costs
especially now that we will be paying for a slip.

Thanks,
Jeff

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:11 PM rjcasciato--- via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Hello Jeffrey..first, welcome to the listmost of us on the C
> list will keep our boats to the "end", unless we're upgrading to a larger
> C
> I own a 77' 38MKII, hull #125. I've owned Impromptu for 23 years
> Your decision to get into a big "old" boat needs careful assessment of
> your finances and the amount of work you are willing to do.virtually
> none of us here don't work to keep our boats sailing like they were built...
> You don't want to know how much money that chews up in 23 years...
> BUT, IMPROMPTU LOOKS LIKE IT JUST CAME OUT OF THE MOLD YESTERDAY
> and sails way better than it did when it left Canada for Chicago in 1977.
> My wife doesn't do wind, sun, and noise
> So this 38 MKII raceshard and well with a seasoned crew of 6.
> I don't suggest you think about that until later when you have enough
> crew
> Speaking of crew.are you planning to sail the 40 with only you and
> your wife Things are much bigger on a 40 than on an ODay 23.the
> mast alone approaches twice the height.
> I would be glad to share some of the "annual base costs" for you to
> consider
> My opinion is that the 35 should be big enough for this next moveand
> cruisable in "nice" weather for two
> I'd be interested in some of the veteran C'ers opinion and what are some
> of the comparative issues of making this big jump.
> Something to consider..the guy who designed my 38 and all of those
> 40's, and all of the rest of the good years C's drives a 34..think
> about that first
> Making a move away from the ODay is a no brainer.just you and your
> wife sail a 40 firstwith safety crew sitting by.
> Again, welcome to this group.we all love our C's.
> Ron C.
> IMPROMPTU
> C 38MKIIC
> 1977#125
>
> Sent from Xfinity Connect Application
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: bride...@gmail.com
> Sent: 2020-07-20 5:38:36 PM
> Subject: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions
>
> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I
> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+
> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer
> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our
> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the
> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the
> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
> but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may
> still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking
> and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs),
> we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid
> of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the
> offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to
> be safe before use.
>
>
> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>
> Now for the questions:
>
> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw
> in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard,
> and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a
> tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8
>
> 1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain or
> a centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood,
> loose inside the drain that I could move with a finger.
> 2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that
> I've not seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps?
> 3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or
> expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat
> recently serviced.
>
> Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log
> sensors have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the
> description as features. Gelcoat seems good for its

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks for your thoughts

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:09 PM Charlie Nelson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> If draft is an issue (or might be a future issue depending on your plans
> for cruising, etc.) I would consider the cb model.
>
> I have a 36 XL/kcb (your 40 ft C is actually a kcb since the cb retracts
> into a serious keel, unlike some cb boats that have boards only or very
> small keels) since I sail in the skinny NC sounds where a 5 ft draft is
> often the rule in marinas, not the exception.
>
> I Replace the pennant every 5 or so years and otherwise forgetaboutit!.
> Upwind, board down, it will point with or better than any others and
> downwind, board up, it will get up and go! OTOH, it likely has a weighted
> board which probably weighs over 1000 lbs. Unless you are racing, grinding
> the board up is not an easy job—I use a Lewmar 30 with 3:1 purchase AND my
> strongest crew to bring her up. Of course, as some have noted, it is a
> simple matter to pin it up permantly.
>
> Of course the kcb won’t be as fast as a deep keel of the same model (lots
> more wetted surface than a fin) but there probably isn’t any harbor in
> NH/ME that you could not get into, even at low tide, with the board up.
>
> Welcome to the list!
>
> Charlie Nelson
> 1995 C 36 XL/kcb
> Water Phantom
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> Get the new AOL app: mail.mobile.aol.com
>
> On Monday, July 20, 2020, Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I
> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+
> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer
> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our
> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the
> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the
> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
> but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may
> still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking
> and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs),
> we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid
> of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the
> offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to
> be safe before use.
>
>
> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>
> Now for the questions:
>
> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw
> in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard,
> and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a
> tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8
>
> 1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain or
> a centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood,
> loose inside the drain that I could move with a finger.
> 2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that
> I've not seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps?
> 3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or
> expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat
> recently serviced.
>
> Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log
> sensors have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the
> description as features. Gelcoat seems good for its age.
>
> We are leaning towards the centerboard model as the Marina we are
> targeting in Portland, ME has limited areas of draft to accommodate a 7.5'
> keel at low tide. However, fewer moving parts is a huge advantage as is
> better sailing performance. But, we might be forced into a less
> desirable marina or have a low tide +/- 1hr time block for coming or going
> from the marina.
>
> Last general question and ask for advice, what is the mast step situation
> on either of these boats and apart from waterlogged cores in the deck and
> hull, what are the critical points of interest to a new buyer that thinks
> he is somewhat savvy.
>
> All polite thoughts welcomed.
>
> Best regards,
> Jeff
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

The interior is odd by today's standards for sure.  But for us, the pilot
berths would be great for two young boys and it seems it could easily sleep
4 adults and 4 kids if we had visitors.

What kinds of speeds did you see regularly on your charter experience? I
don't see anywhere in my googling what realistic speeds might be other than
suggested hull speeds of 7ish knots.

Thanks,
Jeff

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 8:01 PM Nate Flesness via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I own a 30-1, but have chartered a tall rig 40, with the deep keel.
> Sailing it was like a freight train... the most amazing speed and
> ground-covering ability I have ever dealt with.
> Still brings a smile thinking about it.
> That said, I thought the interior was set up for a racing crew more than
> cruisers, but thats just a personal preference.
>
> Good luck
>
> Nate
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 4:38 PM Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I
>> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+
>> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer
>> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our
>> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the
>> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the
>> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
>> but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may
>> still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking
>> and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs),
>> we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid
>> of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the
>> offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to
>> be safe before use.
>>
>>
>> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
>> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>>
>> Now for the questions:
>>
>> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw
>> in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard,
>> and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a
>> tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8
>>
>> 1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain
>> or a centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood,
>> loose inside the drain that I could move with a finger.
>> 2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that
>> I've not seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps?
>> 3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or
>> expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat
>> recently serviced.
>>
>> Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log
>> sensors have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the
>> description as features. Gelcoat seems good for its age.
>>
>> We are leaning towards the centerboard model as the Marina we are
>> targeting in Portland, ME has limited areas of draft to accommodate a 7.5'
>> keel at low tide. However, fewer moving parts is a huge advantage as is
>> better sailing performance. But, we might be forced into a less
>> desirable marina or have a low tide +/- 1hr time block for coming or going
>> from the marina.
>>
>> Last general question and ask for advice, what is the mast step situation
>> on either of these boats and apart from waterlogged cores in the deck and
>> hull, what are the critical points of interest to a new buyer that thinks
>> he is somewhat savvy.
>>
>> All polite thoughts welcomed.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jeff
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
>> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>>
>> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Hi Joel,

Probably not. Too far away and I suspect the border to be closed for some
time.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 7:36 PM Joel Delamirande via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Welcome to the club
> R you open to boat in Canada or Ontario
> And what price range are you looking for?
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 6:31 PM John Conklin via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes welcome love these boats
>> Is there really 2 cabins?  or quarter berth The lines on the 40 look like
>> an overgrown standard37 which I have and love. I am also little Leary on
>> the CB Model moving parts  but I don’t see a crazy aMount of complaints on
>> the forum I went for fixed keel that was “hacked off” as noted here :)
>>  and mars bulb added  for the Pamlico sounds and skinny NC waters.  oh and
>> she  also had a good smile. No further issues . Still sails and tracks like
>> a dream Best of luck survey survey !!
>>
>> John Conklin
>> S/V Halcyon
>> S/V Heartbeat
>> www.flirtingwithfire.com
>>
>>
>> On Jul 20, 2020, at 6:04 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Welcome to the list!
>>
>> It looks like the drain is a Garboard drain which allows the bilge to
>> drain in the off season.
>>
>> Yes the wire rope is most likely the center board pendent.
>>
>> The center board pin is only ever really covered by a light fairing
>> compound.  It is not unrealistic that the spots you see are lube or water
>> oozing through.  Personally I would lean towards the more fault tolerant
>> version of a fixed keel but can certainly understand you situation.  Edd
>> Schillay on this list pined his swing keel up and glassed over the slot.
>>
>> Personally, I like the exterior lines and design of the 40 more than my
>> 37+... But I love my 37+.
>>
>> As for the other questions, someone else is going to have to answer.
>>
>> Warm regards,
>> Josh Muckley
>> S/V Sea Hawk
>> 1989 C 37+
>> Solomons, MD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 17:38 Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List <
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I
>>> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+
>>> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer
>>> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our
>>> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the
>>> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the
>>> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
>>> but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may
>>> still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking
>>> and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs),
>>> we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid
>>> of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the
>>> offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to
>>> be safe before use.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
>>> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>>>
>>> Now for the questions:
>>>
>>> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we
>>> saw in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the
>>> hard, and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is
>>> a tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.
>>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8
>>>
>>> 1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain
>>> or a centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood,
>>> loose inside the drain that I could move with a finger.
>>> 2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that
>>> I've not seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps?
>>> 3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or
>>> expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat
>>> recently serviced.
>>>
>>> Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log
>>> sensors have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the
>>> description as features. Gelcoat seems good for its age.
>>>
>>> We are leaning towards the centerboard model as the Marina we are
>>> targeting in Portland, ME has limited areas of draft to accommodate a 7.5'
>>> keel at low tide. However, fewer moving parts is a huge advantage as is
>>> better sailing performance. But, we might be forced into a less
>>> desirable marina or have a low tide +/- 1hr time block for coming or going
>>> from the marina.
>>>
>>> Last general question and ask for advice, what is the mast step
>>> situation on either of these boats and apart from waterlogged cores in the
>>> deck and

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions

Thanks for the notes. I hadn't thought of modifying the keel but that would
probably put us well out of our budget.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 6:31 PM John Conklin via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Yes welcome love these boats
> Is there really 2 cabins?  or quarter berth The lines on the 40 look like
> an overgrown standard37 which I have and love. I am also little Leary on
> the CB Model moving parts  but I don’t see a crazy aMount of complaints on
> the forum I went for fixed keel that was “hacked off” as noted here :)
>  and mars bulb added  for the Pamlico sounds and skinny NC waters.  oh and
> she  also had a good smile. No further issues . Still sails and tracks like
> a dream Best of luck survey survey !!
>
> John Conklin
> S/V Halcyon
> S/V Heartbeat
> www.flirtingwithfire.com
>
>
> On Jul 20, 2020, at 6:04 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
> Welcome to the list!
>
> It looks like the drain is a Garboard drain which allows the bilge to
> drain in the off season.
>
> Yes the wire rope is most likely the center board pendent.
>
> The center board pin is only ever really covered by a light fairing
> compound.  It is not unrealistic that the spots you see are lube or water
> oozing through.  Personally I would lean towards the more fault tolerant
> version of a fixed keel but can certainly understand you situation.  Edd
> Schillay on this list pined his swing keel up and glassed over the slot.
>
> Personally, I like the exterior lines and design of the 40 more than my
> 37+... But I love my 37+.
>
> As for the other questions, someone else is going to have to answer.
>
> Warm regards,
> Josh Muckley
> S/V Sea Hawk
> 1989 C 37+
> Solomons, MD
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2020, 17:38 Jeffrey Brideau via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Allow me to first apologize for any ignorance we may suffer before I
>> introduce our situation. I've been sailing all sorts of small craft for 35+
>> years but this will be our first adventure in something no-longer
>> trailerable.  I and my wife are shopping for an upgrade in size from our
>> O'Day 23-2 and are attracted to the C line of boats given our budget, the
>> perceived quality, performance/comfort reputation, and availability in the
>> local market. We started eyeing a 35-3 in VT (and may still consider it)
>> but after looking at a few 35' boats locally we are realizing they may
>> still be a bit small for our rapidly growing family of four (and trucking
>> and bottom painting a boat from VT to NH/ME seacoast adds a lot of costs),
>> we have started looking at some C 40 boats in MA/RI  area. I'm not afraid
>> of some small projects that can be carried out while we use it or in the
>> offseason but not interested in a "project boat"  that would need work to
>> be safe before use.
>>
>>
>> https://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?slim=broker_id=3558367_boats=3558367=MattapoisettYachtSales&==Feet=Public_id=81236=
>> https://www.boattrader.com/boat/1981-c-c-tall-rig-7442829/
>>
>> Now for the questions:
>>
>> We have scheduled the two 40's above for a visit next weekend, one we saw
>> in the boatyard without invitation this weekend. They are both on the hard,
>> and the one we briefly visited is a centerboard version. The other is a
>> tall-rig/deep-keel.  See the photos linked.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/7xUVbSnHMob2YmYP8
>>
>> 1. On this boat, what is the drain in the keel for? Is it a bilge drain
>> or a centerboard trunk vent? There was something, perhaps a piece of wood,
>> loose inside the drain that I could move with a finger.
>> 2. On cabin top starboard, there appears to be a wire cable winch that
>> I've not seen on other examples. Is this the centerboard pendant perhaps?
>> 3. Is the weeping from the centerboard pivot access ports reasonable or
>> expected. It may be lubricant as the broker suggests it was somewhat
>> recently serviced.
>>
>> Notes: The "smile" needs addressing but seems dry. Depth and knot log
>> sensors have been painted over with antifoul despite being listed in the
>> description as features. Gelcoat seems good for its age.
>>
>> We are leaning towards the centerboard model as the Marina we are
>> targeting in Portland, ME has limited areas of draft to accommodate a 7.5'
>> keel at low tide. However, fewer moving parts is a huge advantage as is
>> better sailing performance. But, we might be forced into a less
>> desirable marina or have a low tide +/- 1hr time block for coming or going
>> from the marina.
>>
>> Last general question and ask for advice, what is the mast step situation
>> on either of these boats and apart from waterlogged cores in the deck and
>> hull, what are the critical points of interest to a new buyer that thinks
>> he is somewhat savvy.
>>
>> All polite thoughts welcomed.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jeff
>> ___
>>
>> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.

Re: Stus-List New-guy C 40 Shopping questions