Re: [CGUYS] DTV is ponzi scheme!!
BaitSwitch.I think it's a hair raising gallop to pay TV for we who were never cable herd .I have cable now as my 40' tower with uhf/vhf antenna gets 2 channels with the converter box (drat!) so I got basic Comcast internet (sold 768 get 1100-1300 after putting in an imbalanced splitter) and free basic cable TV for 1 year (reruns and junk local stuff .only gud stuf is history channel and cspan). When it's over, maybe I'll try a new antenna or a dish .crap is crap!! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV is ponzi scheme!!
On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 2:57 PM, rleesimonrleesi...@gmail.com wrote: BaitSwitch.I think it's a hair raising gallop to pay TV for we who were never cable herd . The pay TV people were ready to pounce even before the June 12 switchover. Their slick mailings were produced by their printer some time ago. I have gotten two already that tell me I can get the channels back that I have lost if I subscribe to their cable service. Funny thing is that they don't run cable up to my house, and last time I checked with them, they had no plans to do so. They were also apparently more aware of how many viewers would lose channels than was the FCC or even the broadcasters themselves. Of course, the broadcasters and the FCC could have been in a state of denial all along on this issue. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
As previously discussed, we've now tried both Cable (on one tv, with a Comcast box) and a home-made antenna. We thought the antenna would stop working on 6/12 but, much to our surprise, we still get the same number of channels over the air that we got on 6/11 and before. Yes, of course we have re-scanned, many, many times. Amazingly, Channel 26 comes in now, sometimes. We can't tell if it's weather related, or if they really boosted power a bit after 6/11. The picture breaks up often, disappears for periods of time, etc, but we know it's out there somewhere. I guess we'll end up trying to figure out which TV's we really want to watch. Then we'll see if Comcast actually has the mythical DTA boxes which they are supposedly going to make available (2 to a household) at no additional charge. Because we moaned (or was it screamed) so loudly as stations started to disappear a couple of months ago, Comcast gave us a deal that makes a switch to Verizon FIOs, now available in our area, too costly to contemplate. Maybe next year, when our Comcast bill increases. Meanwhile our analog boxes limp along, getting whatever they get directly from Comcast. The cost of a roof antenna (which is working well for my dad, who lives just blocks away) is more than a couple of Comcast boxes for the foreseeable future, and a switch to FIOS isn't in the cards - yet, so I guess we're pretty well stuck. I sure would like to know who is benefitting from all this though. Someone must be making a mint. Mical Mical Wimoth Carton chrper...@aol.com * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
More on channel 9. My home an office are about the same distance from the broadcast tower (3.8 mi vs 4.0 mi straight line). The angle between receiver and transmitter changes by about 45 degrees between these 2 locations. The office has some tall buildings in between. The house is line of sight through trees. I get a good signal at home. No signal at the office. On Jun 14, 2009, at 10:19 AM, chrper...@aol.com wrote: As previously discussed, we've now tried both Cable (on one tv, with a Comcast box) and a home-made antenna. We thought the antenna would stop working on 6/12 but, much to our surprise, we still get the same number of channels over the air that we got on 6/11 and before. Yes, of course we have re-scanned, many, many times. Amazingly, Channel 26 comes in now, sometimes. We can't tell if it's weather related, or if they really boosted power a bit after 6/11. The picture breaks up often, disappears for periods of time, etc, but we know it's out there somewhere. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
I was, happily, out of the country for the 12th debacle ...in Belgium, they are progressively doing the DTV thing but analog is still there and, for that matter, most get TV via cable ...oh, yeah, you can get it via regular cable or telephone lines with high speed internet via both with or without fone. Oh yeah, by the way, the cellular coverage is virtually 100% all GSM with 3g in town and regular gprs everywhere else. Pay Go cards are popular and very expensive ...plans are not cheap either. TV on cell phones is up and running. Weekend cell calls to landlines are free. Cell to cell within service is free. Outbound caller pays, inbound cellular is free (even expired paygo card can receive calls free for a year since last load). -Original Message- From: mike [mailto:xha...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:26 PM Subject: Re: DTV debacle It's just TV...you aren't missing much. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:10 PM, betty b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: It *was* broke, now it's fixed. For a while, anyway. You wouldn't really consider driving a 1940 model car today, would you? Your 'fire' analogy is a really bad one because DTV is a set of standards, not a universal chemical process. Nobody around here can get all the channels they had with analog. None of my friends have more than one or two channels even friends who live much closer to the broadcast towers. In case you haven't noticed, fire still works. Our TVs don't. Even friends with digital TVs--we have two--get few channels even with new antennae. I'm so excite!! I got ONE secondary digital channel today!! And NOTHING else. Sure looks like the people who did the survey found an area with good reception and asked those folks. The hell with the rest of us who have almost nothing now. Of course the National Association of Broadcasters would say good things about DTV. DUH. 'Fire' adheres to the 'standards' set forth in the laws of Thermodynamics. DTV standards aren't sufficient to provide over-the-air broadcasting, except where the NAB does their limited polling. Your idea of broken is bizarre, considering the replacement is much worse, and the excess bandwidth is being sold instead of leased, denying taxpayers revenue that our gummint needs, and has received before the sales. Bad standards, bad implementation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
Just a bit more for the mix: my mother lives in a retirement community. An informal small sample survey: everyone I talked to was enduring terrible trouble receiving more than 4-5 channels (of sometimes irrelevant content for them), whether or not they have a dtv. Their facility attributes poor reception to robust walls and surrounding interference from trees. They advise cable. My respondants' opinions, no surprise, were: wasn't broke; now it is; damned if I'm going to pay for cable. Most of these people have television as their window to life beyond the circumscription of old age, old bones. Add to that the complexity of dealing with converter box adjustments, there seems a degree of unfair play, here. Didn't Tony say something to the effect that there will be microwave repeater towers to resolve all of this? Why wasn't that done before we jumped? I get a good signal at home. No signal at the office. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 4:13 PM, t.piwowart...@tjpa.com wrote: I bet they won't admit a problem because then they would not be able to charge for the ads they run. Television stations never publicly admit to any problems, and the reason that you have stated factors into this. It is common for most radio stations, and especially public radio stations, to report on technical difficulties to their audience if those difficulties would have caused reception problems. Not so in the television world. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
The FCC is currently accepting requests for TV repeater licenses, yes. The application procedure is not easy, as the station must prove the new repeater will only restore their old coverage area, and will not expand it. This takes voluminous engineering reports, and would have been very difficult to prove before the cutoff, since most people then were still using analog. Someone over the weekend claimed the report from the NAB was bogus because what would we expect the NAB to say?. But there were ever only two sides in the DTV changeover - the FCC and the NAB. If one party could be said to be more on the consumer's side, it would be the NAB - no broadcaster was in favor of cutting off a single viewer. Of course, it's _our_ FCC, so really consumers had two dogs in the fight. Remember, the report doesn't say 100% of consumers love DTV. It only states 25% don't notice an improvement over analog (but 75% do). On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 3:36 PM, chad evans wyattcewyattph...@yahoo.com wrote: Didn't Tony say something to the effect that there will be microwave repeater towers to resolve all of this? Why wasn't that done before we jumped? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
There are no citizens fighting to use white space; only other companies. The broadcasters want adjacent frequencies kept clear to minimize interference. If you feel both the FCC and the NAB are out to screw you, then there's really not much we can discuss. We'll just have to agree to disagree. On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:18 PM, phartz...@gmail.comphartz...@gmail.com wrote: The NAB represents the interests of broadcasters...period. The NAB is currently fighting tooth and nail to prevent the public from being able to use any of the unused portion of the spectrum they are broadcasting DTV in, the so called white space. These portions of the spectrum are public property, and are unused by the TV industry, yet the industry wants to control it. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Tony Bton...@gmail.com wrote: There are no citizens fighting to use white space; only other companies. The broadcasters want adjacent frequencies kept clear to minimize interference. Of course there are companies desiring to use this white space. However, these companies seeking to be able to access this unused portionof the spectrum are far closer to representing the public's interest than is the NAB. Broadcasters have no problem with leasing out adjacent frequencies that they control to private interests. The FCC handles interference issues and will do so with white space usage decisions just as with any RF licensing and monitoring. If you feel both the FCC and the NAB are out to screw you, then there's really not much we can discuss. We'll just have to agree to disagree. You suggested that I believe the FCC and NAB are out to screw the public. I made no such statement. I merely said that the NAB is the lobbying arm of broadcasters and represents them, and does not represent the radio and TV listening or viewing public. I also said that the FCC has traditionally been quite wishy-washy about representing the public's interest. If you really maintain that the NAB is an advocate for the TV viewing public, and is charged with representing the interests of the public when meeting with governmental entities, then we most certainly can't discuss this. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
It *was* broke, now it's fixed. For a while, anyway. You wouldn't really consider driving a 1940 model car today, would you? Your 'fire' analogy is a really bad one because DTV is a set of standards, not a universal chemical process. No question the rival format - COFDM - had it's supporters. But in many side by side tests, the winning system (8VSB) proved to be slightly better. There was no clear consensus, and it's quite possible someone at the FCC just flipped a coin back in 1999 and picked 8VSB. It's a workable system. Like any technology, it can be improved. Remember 75% of those surveyed have *better* reception with DTV, with 47% of those reporting 'major improvement'. Of course, nobody really expects the other 25% to be particularly happy. :( http://www.televisionbroadcast.com/article/80894 On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 1:18 AM, b_s-wilkb1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: I cook on a stove with fire. People have cooked with fire for thousands of years and most haven't entirely given up on it. It works--well--not likely to be replaced with microwaves any time soon. Analog TV has only been around for 60 or so years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If they want to change the technology, the least that they should do is pick the technology that works. The US implementation of DTV is a failure, so far, for most people in cities, suburbs and rural areas. DTV is highway robbery. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
Don't fail to look after the Bush plan for converting to digital fire scheduled for next January. Some have said that doing so in the middle of Winter was a dumb idea, but Bush said mission accomplished. I don't think it is on BHO's radar yet, with so many other crises to attend to. Try to order your fire converters early. On Jun 13, 2009, at 7:40 AM, Tony B wrote: It *was* broke, now it's fixed. For a while, anyway. You wouldn't really consider driving a 1940 model car today, would you? Your 'fire' analogy is a really bad one because DTV is a set of standards, not a universal chemical process. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
It's probably better it isn't on his radar yet..we'd only have one channel if left up to BHO. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 9:05 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: Don't fail to look after the Bush plan for converting to digital fire scheduled for next January. Some have said that doing so in the middle of Winter was a dumb idea, but Bush said mission accomplished. I don't think it is on BHO's radar yet, with so many other crises to attend to. Try to order your fire converters early. On Jun 13, 2009, at 7:40 AM, Tony B wrote: It *was* broke, now it's fixed. For a while, anyway. You wouldn't really consider driving a 1940 model car today, would you? Your 'fire' analogy is a really bad one because DTV is a set of standards, not a universal chemical process. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
There shouldn't have been a coupon, another huge ripoff. Why do I have to pay for some yahoo down the street to watch another episode of jerry springer? On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Steve at Verizon stevet...@verizon.netwrote: I know there are some who believe Bush is the cause of all problems, past, present, and future, but this isn't one of them. DTV transition started long before his presidency. Check this NYT article from 1997 http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/10/business/advanced-tv-posing-issue-of-timing.html First paragraph: If the Clinton Administration has its way, every American home will have to replace its television sets with expensive new digital models within eight years -- or risk losing the ability to watch TV at all. (OK, I'll admit the Bush admin didn't do a great job with the coupon process.) t.piwowar wrote: Don't fail to look after the Bush plan for converting to digital fire scheduled for next January. Some have said that doing so in the middle of Winter was a dumb idea, but Bush said mission accomplished. I don't think it is on BHO's radar yet, with so many other crises to attend to. Try to order your fire converters early. On Jun 13, 2009, at 7:40 AM, Tony B wrote: It *was* broke, now it's fixed. For a while, anyway. You wouldn't really consider driving a 1940 model car today, would you? Your 'fire' analogy is a really bad one because DTV is a set of standards, not a universal chemical process. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
I can't get 7 or 9 in the DC area, even after I've rescanned the set. I even tried rotating the antenna to better receive the signals but nothing came through. Next step is to replace the primary UHF/VHF antenna with the old VHF/UHF one I took down 2 years ago. Oh what fun... Richard P. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Robert Carrollcarrollcompu...@gmail.com wrote: Latest problem with digital TV in DC area. Couldn't get local digital channels with a digital LCD TV using rabbit ears, so I got an outside digital antenna. Could get channels fine. Then when analog was shut off, digital channels 7 (WJLA) and 9 (WUSA) disappeared. According to the blog on the channel 7 website, the reason is that channels 7 9 decided to retain the old VHF carrier frequency (switching digital from UHF to VHF when analog was shut off) unlike all other local channels which use UHF. Thus, my new digital antenna can't receive VHF signals strongly enough, and the rabbit ears are not strong enough even if I manually switch antennas when I switch channels. Any others here have seen channels 7 9 disappear? There are many complaining at the web site. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
Come now. The 8 years of incompetence was entirely on his watch. To go back 12 years to pin it on Clinton is just silly and the transition date was prior to BHO's inauguration. This debacle, like Katrina, was entirely run by bad-for-business, good-for-crooks Republicans. You have to live in the real world. Fantasy-land thinking just gets us all into trouble. On Jun 13, 2009, at 1:49 PM, Steve at Verizon wrote: I know there are some who believe Bush is the cause of all problems, past, present, and future, but this isn't one of them. DTV transition started long before his presidency. Check this NYT article from 1997 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
It is called taking responsibility for ones actions. I know, a strange concept for some. On Jun 13, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike wrote: There shouldn't have been a coupon, another huge ripoff. Why do I have to pay for some yahoo down the street to watch another episode of jerry springer? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
Of course I rescanned. I also entered channels 7-1 and 9-1 manually to the TV. There is not enough signal even to register on the signal strength meter on those channels. With the old rabbit ears, I can get a jerky picture on channel 7-1 and none on channel 9-1. Since I am only 10 miles from the transmitting tower, I guess that channels 7 9 have made a decision that over-the-air broadcasting is not a significant part of their audience and plan to rely on cable and satellite instead. Perhaps they are right. If I now buy yet another outdoor antenna, one that receives both VHF and UHF signals, the cost of antennas will exceed the cost of the digital TV and I still will be able only to receive local over-the-air stations. Better to keep old analog sets, pay the cable company for a few more tuners. t.piwowar wrote: They announced they were going to do that long ago. Using those lower-numbered channels will give them better range. This is why we are being told to rescan for channels after the switchover. On Jun 13, 2009, at 1:14 PM, Robert Carroll wrote: Latest problem with digital TV in DC area. Couldn't get local digital channels with a digital LCD TV using rabbit ears, so I got an outside digital antenna. Could get channels fine. Then when analog was shut off, digital channels 7 (WJLA) and 9 (WUSA) disappeared. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
I am getting 7 okay now. Something is wrong at channel 9, though I don't see anybody admitting it on WUSA's home page. I left my set tuned to 9 while working on other things. The screen is black mostly. Every 5 minutes or so I get a frame or two of video and a short burst of audio. Maybe they are having a problem with signal strength. I bet they won't admit a problem because then they would not be able to charge for the ads they run. On Jun 13, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Richard P. wrote: I can't get 7 or 9 in the DC area, even after I've rescanned the set. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
It *was* broke, now it's fixed. For a while, anyway. You wouldn't really consider driving a 1940 model car today, would you? Your 'fire' analogy is a really bad one because DTV is a set of standards, not a universal chemical process. Nobody around here can get all the channels they had with analog. None of my friends have more than one or two channels even friends who live much closer to the broadcast towers. In case you haven't noticed, fire still works. Our TVs don't. Even friends with digital TVs--we have two--get few channels even with new antennae. I'm so excite!! I got ONE secondary digital channel today!! And NOTHING else. Sure looks like the people who did the survey found an area with good reception and asked those folks. The hell with the rest of us who have almost nothing now. Of course the National Association of Broadcasters would say good things about DTV. DUH. 'Fire' adheres to the 'standards' set forth in the laws of Thermodynamics. DTV standards aren't sufficient to provide over-the-air broadcasting, except where the NAB does their limited polling. Your idea of broken is bizarre, considering the replacement is much worse, and the excess bandwidth is being sold instead of leased, denying taxpayers revenue that our gummint needs, and has received before the sales. Bad standards, bad implementation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
Just a reminder that you may have to run the scan for all channels several times. Did so yesterday, but then lost some and had to run again today. Seems the broadcasters a shifting frequencies at different times. (And relocating from where they were originally.) betty wrote: It *was* broke, now it's fixed. For a while, anyway. You wouldn't really consider driving a 1940 model car today, would you? Your 'fire' analogy is a really bad one because DTV is a set of standards, not a universal chemical process. Nobody around here can get all the channels they had with analog. None of my friends have more than one or two channels even friends who live much closer to the broadcast towers. In case you haven't noticed, fire still works. Our TVs don't. Even friends with digital TVs--we have two--get few channels even with new antennae. I'm so excite!! I got ONE secondary digital channel today!! And NOTHING else. Sure looks like the people who did the survey found an area with good reception and asked those folks. The hell with the rest of us who have almost nothing now. Of course the National Association of Broadcasters would say good things about DTV. DUH. 'Fire' adheres to the 'standards' set forth in the laws of Thermodynamics. DTV standards aren't sufficient to provide over-the-air broadcasting, except where the NAB does their limited polling. Your idea of broken is bizarre, considering the replacement is much worse, and the excess bandwidth is being sold instead of leased, denying taxpayers revenue that our gummint needs, and has received before the sales. Bad standards, bad implementation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
It's just TV...you aren't missing much. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 7:10 PM, betty b1sun...@yahoo.es wrote: It *was* broke, now it's fixed. For a while, anyway. You wouldn't really consider driving a 1940 model car today, would you? Your 'fire' analogy is a really bad one because DTV is a set of standards, not a universal chemical process. Nobody around here can get all the channels they had with analog. None of my friends have more than one or two channels even friends who live much closer to the broadcast towers. In case you haven't noticed, fire still works. Our TVs don't. Even friends with digital TVs--we have two--get few channels even with new antennae. I'm so excite!! I got ONE secondary digital channel today!! And NOTHING else. Sure looks like the people who did the survey found an area with good reception and asked those folks. The hell with the rest of us who have almost nothing now. Of course the National Association of Broadcasters would say good things about DTV. DUH. 'Fire' adheres to the 'standards' set forth in the laws of Thermodynamics. DTV standards aren't sufficient to provide over-the-air broadcasting, except where the NAB does their limited polling. Your idea of broken is bizarre, considering the replacement is much worse, and the excess bandwidth is being sold instead of leased, denying taxpayers revenue that our gummint needs, and has received before the sales. Bad standards, bad implementation. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
Each time I turn on any of our TVs there are no channels and I have to scan. We've had DirecTV for years, and they've been digital for years. They get it right, and have a lot of good channels, but we can only get Baltimore TV stations for our local stations, not Philly and not both, like we had on analog. Just a reminder that you may have to run the scan for all channels several times. Did so yesterday, but then lost some and had to run again today. Seems the broadcasters a shifting frequencies at different times. (And relocating from where they were originally.) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
You forget the circumstances. The USA was embroiled in an unjust war that was costing far more money than bad-at-math Republicans had calculated. Revenue from the oil fields that they had expected to seize never materialized. They wanted to cut taxes for the rich even more than they already had. So they had to RAISE MONEY FAST. They decided that auctioning off public property in perpetuity to private interests was the best way to do it. It would net them $Bs.THEY WERE IN A HURRY. They fudged the testing. They fudged the statistics. They under-funded the transition. They made empty promises. But dammit THEY GOT THE MONEY (or at least some of it). On Jun 13, 2009, at 10:10 PM, betty wrote: Sure looks like the people who did the survey found an area with good reception and asked those folks. The hell with the rest of us who have almost nothing now. Of course the National Association of Broadcasters would say good things about DTV. DUH. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
There you go with your magical thinking again. It has been well established that Bush inherited a well run and highly professional FEMA from the previous administration. He and his cronies then proceeded to fill the organization with politically-connected nincompoops and forced out the professional staff. Much like he did with the FCC. On Jun 13, 2009, at 4:22 PM, mike wrote: Of course...the republicans caused katrina to happen in a state run entirely by dems. Right. MS did itBush did it... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
b_s-wilk We went from getting around 20 stations to 2. We have a new Well, you now almost have the same status I always have had. I used to get (with rabbit ears) a bunch of snowy stations from DC with one slightly better station (channel 4). I live in southern MD (LaPlata/Waldorf). -- Take care | This clown speaks for himself, his job doesn't Wayne D. | supply this, at least not directly Managing senior programmers is like herding cats! * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
b_s-wilk wrote: We went from getting around 20 stations to 2. We have a new amplified antenna that doesn't help. This sucks. The switch to digital was a gift to cable, fiber and satellite companies, as well as electronics companies, and gives the customers no advantage with plenty to complain about. I feel like we've been mugged. I bought a digital LCD TV. Even tho I dwell on the DC Beltway and most of the local TV transmitting towers are about 10 miles away line-of-sight, I could get NO local digital TV at all with an amplified rabbit-ear antenna. Just bought an outdoor antenna, and can now get all but one of the local channels that I got with my analog TV using rabbit ears. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
On Jun 12, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Robert Carroll wrote: I bought a digital LCD TV. Even tho I dwell on the DC Beltway and most of the local TV transmitting towers are about 10 miles away line-of-sight, I could get NO local digital TV at all with an amplified rabbit-ear antenna. Just bought an outdoor antenna, and can now get all but one of the local channels that I got with my analog TV using rabbit ears. I also lost access to several stations that I regularly watched. Some close by, some further away. But they came in just fine with analog using rabbit-ears. Now even with a big roof-top antenna I can't get them. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
I think many people are victims of two things going on. TV Antennas are tuned for a certain spread pattern to reach the customers that they want. I think that one of the things they did was change the spread on their antennas when they went to Digital. So no telling until someone comes clean. I know locally when one of the TV stations put up their Digital; antenna, they moved it a little so the signal coverage changed. The local Cable outlet complained that it was all the TV's station fault for their having problems with the channel and the pixelating and lost signal we experienced. Turns out the Cable company also changed their receiver location significantly and it was a combination of the two that cause the problems. Stewart At 11:00 AM 6/12/2009, you wrote: I also lost access to several stations that I regularly watched. Some close by, some further away. But they came in just fine with analog using rabbit-ears. Now even with a big roof-top antenna I can't get them. Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
Why did we do this anyway? I have cable at home, but have no cable access at my lake property (or I would have it there also). We were able to pick up at least SOME snowy reception from the nearest city (Syracuse, NY) with analog and a roof antenna, for 3 major networks. Now with a DTV converter, we are able to pick up 2 non-network Syr channels crystal clear, but NO network channels. Nevermind that we subbed to DirectTV (satellite) several yrs ago, but were hoping that we would now be able to pick up the most local channels via digital. It didn't work. Sue * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
Assuming this isn't a rhetorical question, I'll answer it. The old system - designed in the 1930's, ratified in 1940, is inefficient. It requires a whole lot of precious limited bandwidth to broadcast a single format signal. DTV not only saves bandwidth, it can carry many different formats. It's also a much clearer picture, not susceptible to the snow and ghost that the 1940 system was. An analogy: In 1940 we needed a big bus to deliver one channel. With DTV, we can use a minibus, and each one can carry many different channels. And you can actually see out the windows on the newer minibus. You may eventually get coverage in the outlying areas. The FCC has already approved many requests for signal repeaters which are meant to restore coverage to pre-DTV areas (no permits are being issued to *extend* pre-DTV coverage). Assuming these repeaters get cheap enough (and they should be soon) we'll probably see them popping up all over the place. On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Sue Cubicscu...@earthlink.net wrote: Why did we do this anyway? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
What network are neither of the dish companies not providing? I've got Direct TV and get all the networks. In fact, one of my peeves when I travel is dealing with the limited cable selection. It's also interesting seeing what areas of the country decide on what cable news channels to carry. MSNBC is usually the first to go. Jeff M On Jun 12, 2009, at 3:17 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: I hope so we get so-so coverage to begin with on Analog. If we switch to Dish we loose one of the networks as it will not sign an agreement with either of the Dish companies to allow us coverage. (Nice of them) So we have chosen Cable. But there is a Bright spot. A new Cable company is coming into the area and should start service this fall. Should be interesting!! Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
It is the local NBC outfit. As you know they have to have permission to give you the local channels on Satellite. The local NBC provider wont play and allow then rebroadcast rights in our area, but only the NBC stations home area. (If I lived 30 miles north I would get it, or 30 miles south I would get another one.) So we can get all our local affiliates but NBC. Scratch Dish!!! I think we have to pay a 5-10 surcharge to get a national NBC station. Stewart At 05:36 PM 6/12/2009, you wrote: What network are neither of the dish companies not providing? I've got Direct TV and get all the networks. In fact, one of my peeves when I travel is dealing with the limited cable selection. It's also interesting seeing what areas of the country decide on what cable news channels to carry. MSNBC is usually the first to go. Jeff M On Jun 12, 2009, at 3:17 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: I hope so we get so-so coverage to begin with on Analog. If we switch to Dish we loose one of the networks as it will not sign an agreement with either of the Dish companies to allow us coverage. (Nice of them) So we have chosen Cable. But there is a Bright spot. A new Cable company is coming into the area and should start service this fall. Should be interesting!! Stewart * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
I live at the northern tip of the Chesapeake Bay, about half way between Philly and Baltimore. With analog TV, I could get all Baltimore and all Philly stations, plus Harrisburg, and sometimes 4, 7, and 9 in DC, depending on the weather. Last week I got channel 6 in Philly, and 10 with audio only, nothing else, new antenna. I cook on a stove with fire. People have cooked with fire for thousands of years and most haven't entirely given up on it. It works--well--not likely to be replaced with microwaves any time soon. Analog TV has only been around for 60 or so years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If they want to change the technology, the least that they should do is pick the technology that works. The US implementation of DTV is a failure, so far, for most people in cities, suburbs and rural areas. DTV is highway robbery. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] DTV debacle
The Washington Post today, Thursday, June 11, has a good article about how the transition to digital television has missed virtually every single promised advantage over analog TV. The claims made by broadcasters and their lobbying organizations that were designed to ensure and garner public support for the transition never came to pass. For the most part, all we got is more of the same thing we have been seeing ever since the inception of the industry. The article points out that there was no incentive whatsoever for the industry to deliver on their early promises, and worse yet, the broadcasters never had the necessary creativity to fulfill their proposals in the first place. Why? Because the industry is run by people who are so stuck in the past and lacking in imagination that they were never going to allow anything creative to happen. Staus quo was and is their credo. Read the article. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
You forgot a link. But I'm not even sure what you're complaining about. 8vsb? ATSC? On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:05 PM, phartz...@gmail.comphartz...@gmail.com wrote: The Washington Post today, Thursday, June 11, has a good article about how the transition to digital television has missed virtually every single promised advantage over analog TV. The claims made by broadcasters and their lobbying organizations that were designed to ensure and garner public support for the transition never came to pass. For the most part, all we got is more of the same thing we have been seeing ever since the inception of the industry. The article points out that there was no incentive whatsoever for the industry to deliver on their early promises, and worse yet, the broadcasters never had the necessary creativity to fulfill their proposals in the first place. Why? Because the industry is run by people who are so stuck in the past and lacking in imagination that they were never going to allow anything creative to happen. Staus quo was and is their credo. Read the article. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
Try this link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/09/AR2009060903144.html?wprss=rss_technology At 8:12 PM -0400 6/11/09, Tony B wrote: You forgot a link. But I'm not even sure what you're complaining about. 8vsb? ATSC? On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:05 PM, phartz...@gmail.comphartz...@gmail.com wrote: The Washington Post today, Thursday, June 11, has a good article about how the transition to digital television has missed virtually every single promised advantage over analog TV. The claims made by broadcasters and their lobbying organizations that were designed to ensure and garner public support for the transition never came to pass. For the most part, all we got is more of the same thing we have been seeing ever since the inception of the industry. The article points out that there was no incentive whatsoever for the industry to deliver on their early promises, and worse yet, the broadcasters never had the necessary creativity to fulfill their proposals in the first place. Why? Because the industry is run by people who are so stuck in the past and lacking in imagination that they were never going to allow anything creative to happen. Staus quo was and is their credo. Read the article. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- Roger Lovettsville, VA * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
The Washington Post today, Thursday, June 11, has a good article about how the transition to digital television has missed virtually every single promised advantage over analog TV. The claims made by broadcasters and their lobbying organizations that were designed to ensure and garner public support for the transition never came to pass...snip... We went from getting around 20 stations to 2. We have a new amplified antenna that doesn't help. This sucks. The switch to digital was a gift to cable, fiber and satellite companies, as well as electronics companies, and gives the customers no advantage with plenty to complain about. I feel like we've been mugged. pull quote from WaPo interview with FCC rep: ...With a weak analog signal you'll see snow and get sound or a fuzzy picture. With a weak digital signal, you won't see any picture... WaPo story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/10/AR2009061003978.html?sub=AR Latest promise is that after tomorrow the signals will be boosted. I'll take the status quo, thank you. Please direct your requests and flames to 1-888-CALL-FCC and www.dtv.gov, and your Congresscritters. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
The Washington Post today, Thursday, June 11, has a good article about how the transition to digital television has missed virtually every single promised advantage over analog TV. The claims made by broadcasters and their lobbying organizations that were designed to ensure and garner public support for the transition never came to pass. It's a good bet that most broadcasters didn't want ATSC, it's an additional expense and new transmitters had to be bought or alternatively expensive alterations to existing ones had to be made. Other downsides are that coverage is often much less than NTSC and its analog effects. Digital is real nice if you can receive the signal but as many are finding out, many cannot or will have to go to extraordinary lengths to get a decent signal. that being said, if it does work, you get a better picture even with a converter/old tv setup. In most markets, those who can receive a signal will get more offeringgs, even if the extra offering is weather and short news or even worse infomercials. I'm neither in a panic nor enthused about ATSC. One more comment, the US would have been better off adopting the European DVB setup, technically it's a more developed system and predictions about coverage could have been more accurately made. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Tony Bton...@gmail.com wrote: You forgot a link. But I'm not even sure what you're complaining about. 8vsb? ATSC? Who's complaining? I was merely paraphrasing and pointing out a Washington Post article about how digital television is not delivering what had been promised to the public. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV debacle
On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Art Clemonsartclem...@aol.com wrote: It's a good bet that most broadcasters didn't want ATSC, it's an additional expense and new transmitters had to be bought or alternatively expensive alterations to existing ones had to be made. To the best of my knowledge, broadcasters who choose not to use all of their alloted bandwidth for thier own purposes can lease out their unused bandwidth to commercial interests. This can be a lucrative revenue stream for broadcasters. Broadcasters can probably make more money from leasing unused bandwidth than they can make by using that bandwidth themselves for broadcasting purposes. Every aspect of the switch to NTSC is all about the money. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] DTV Reception Maps
In light of the upcoming DTV transition, http://dtv.gov/ has a nice signal reception map. The direct link is: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Just plug in your address and it will let you know what kind of signal strength should be available at your location. If you click on station's call sign, it will give you more detailed info. Richard P. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] DTV
I am in sNJ 08320 and have a 40' tower with an uhf/vhf antenna on there pointed toward Philadelphia to coaxial cable to an amplifier to more coaxial cable to a splitter/secondary-amplifier to a 1984 1984 Sony kv25-xbr tube set which, with over-the-air gave such good picture/sound people would ask if we already got a HDTV. I bought the converters (actually 4 different ones) and am getting just a couple of channels. I took one to my sis's house in LI, NY about 20 miles east of NYC and she got about 50 channels. I went on antennaweb and it says I should get almost nothing. People nearby report they are getting plenty of channels. I have gotten cheap internet via Comcast which came with free basic TV for a year. The tower is pretty much in the clear and this is not a valley (sNJ is flat). My antenna has some lost vanes ...it was a good one when I got it. Nobody around here installs TV antennae. I have a tree trimmer who will do the articulated bucket thing and put up an antenna for me, but then there is the question of 1-signal strength, 2-will I get anything more after all the expense? I sure would like to avoid paying for TV if possible; I already don't want to see it for free, for the most part. Where is the problem here? 1-antenna, 2-amplifier, 3-secondary-amplifier 4-the boogie man? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV
It could be any of the places/causes you cite. You need a good signal strength meter (or a tech with one) to plug into the line at each of the transition points to see what kind of signal you are getting in the DTV band. I don't know what the frequency band is for DTV, but be sure that the in-line amplifier you are using is rated for the frequency band of interest. The old one may not be. The same is true for the coaxial cable that you are using. If DTV is at a much higher frequency than the analog signals you were using, then the existing cable will be much more lossy at the higher frequencies, and you will need new low-loss coax cable. Even the antenna needs to be one that is tuned to the DTV frequency band. The old antenna may not do a good job. I don't have any interest in over-the-air DTV; analog Cox cable is ok for me, so I don't know the specific frequency bands that are relevant. Used to know all the frequencies when I was a kid, but I've forgotten them all, and they have all changed anyway. HTH Fred Holmes At 02:58 AM 5/6/2009, rleesimon wrote: I am in sNJ 08320 and have a 40' tower with an uhf/vhf antenna on there pointed toward Philadelphia to coaxial cable to an amplifier to more coaxial cable to a splitter/secondary-amplifier to a 1984 1984 Sony kv25-xbr tube set which, with over-the-air gave such good picture/sound people would ask if we already got a HDTV. I bought the converters (actually 4 different ones) and am getting just a couple of channels. I took one to my sis's house in LI, NY about 20 miles east of NYC and she got about 50 channels. I went on antennaweb and it says I should get almost nothing. People nearby report they are getting plenty of channels. I have gotten cheap internet via Comcast which came with free basic TV for a year. The tower is pretty much in the clear and this is not a valley (sNJ is flat). My antenna has some lost vanes ...it was a good one when I got it. Nobody around here installs TV antennae. I have a tree trimmer who will do the articulated bucket thing and put up an antenna for me, but then there is the question of 1-signal strength, 2-will I get anything more after all the expense? I sure would like to avoid paying for TV if possible; I already don't want to see it for free, for the most part. Where is the problem here? 1-antenna, 2-amplifier, 3-secondary-amplifier 4-the boogie man? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV
One thing to look at is the receiver portion of the converter. In general, I think older TV receivers had better reception capability because it was so important with everyone using an antenna. With the advent of cable, the manufacturers were able to cut back on the quality of the receiver and happily did so. I imagine shortcuts have been made on the converter boxes as well. Not sure where you can compare converter box receiver strengths. The second issue is the age and condition of the antenna. Don't know your specifics but if you are able to get a lot of analog channels, a decent UHF/VHFantenna should be able to do about the same. The newer it is, the better the connections between the vanes and ribs. You'll have to look on the antennaweb.org site for the actual frequencies of the channels you want to watch, and then match your antenna accordingly. Keep in mind that the frequencies might change from UHF to VHF at the stations discretion, come June. As a rule, VHF signals are better than UHF when it comes to getting the signal to your house, so that might help there. If you are going to go to the trouble of putting up the antenna, you'll want to install an amplifier. Given the difficulty of the installation, it will be easier this way. You can always not use it. However, as an installer once told me, if the signal isn't there, it can't be amplified. Richard P. I am in sNJ 08320 and have a 40' tower with an uhf/vhf antenna on there pointed toward Philadelphia to coaxial cable to an amplifier to more coaxial cable to a splitter/secondary-amplifier to a 1984 1984 Sony kv25-xbr tube set which, with over-the-air gave such good picture/sound people would ask if we already got a HDTV. I bought the converters (actually 4 different ones) and am getting just a couple of channels. I took one to my sis's house in LI, NY about 20 miles east of NYC and she got about 50 channels. I went on antennaweb and it says I should get almost nothing. People nearby report they are getting plenty of channels. I have gotten cheap internet via Comcast which came with free basic TV for a year. The tower is pretty much in the clear and this is not a valley (sNJ is flat). My antenna has some lost vanes ...it was a good one when I got it. Nobody around here installs TV antennae. I have a tree trimmer who will do the articulated bucket thing and put up an antenna for me, but then there is the question of 1-signal strength, 2-will I get anything more after all the expense? I sure would like to avoid paying for TV if possible; I already don't want to see it for free, for the most part. Where is the problem here? 1-antenna, 2-amplifier, 3-secondary-amplifier 4-the boogie man? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV
Even the antenna needs to be one that is tuned to the DTV frequency band. The old antenna may not do a good job. You will need a VHF/UHF antenna. We once thought we would only need a UHF, but the VHF frequenceis we thought were going to be given up will continue to be used by some stations. If DTV is at a much higher frequency than the analog signals you were using, then the existing cable will be much more lossy at the higher frequencies, and you will need new low-loss coax cable. Cable with a wire braided shield is of better quality than that using a foil wrap. The difference may be significant in your case. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV
Where is the problem here? 1-antenna, 2-amplifier, 3-secondary-amplifier 4-the boogie man? If the antenna is old enough to have lost some elements you probably have corrosion problems at various terminals. So you want to replace or clean up as much as you can. Corrosion will attenuate the signal significantly. A wire brush can work wonders. Then cover the terminals with Silicon Chalk to keep them dry. Your coax cable could also have failed if too much moisture managed to get in under the insulation so you should inspect that. Coax is not that expensive so it may be worthwhile replacing it just on GP. Especially if the cost of getting up there is significant. I assume your antenna will have a rotor so you can fine tune its position from a comfortable arm chair. To be most effective your amplifier should be right at the antenna. Every foot of cable will attenuate the signal a litle bit so you get the most benefit of having the amplifier right on the mast. Some antennas come with an amplifier attached. Power to the amplifier is provided through the antenna cable using a power tap located at some convenient spot inside the house. A signal meter is a big help and many digital boxes include an on-screen readout. The meter on some boxes will work even on stations that are too weak to display a picture. Figure out which of your boxes will do that. Good luck. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV
danka shöen merci graçias dank u well On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Tom Piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote: Where is the problem here? 1-antenna, 2-amplifier, 3-secondary-amplifier 4-the boogie man? If the antenna is old enough to have lost some elements you probably have corrosion problems at various terminals. So you want to replace or clean up as much as you can. Corrosion will attenuate the signal significantly. A wire brush can work wonders. Then cover the terminals with Silicon Chalk to keep them dry. Your coax cable could also have failed if too much moisture managed to get in under the insulation so you should inspect that. Coax is not that expensive so it may be worthwhile replacing it just on GP. Especially if the cost of getting up there is significant. I assume your antenna will have a rotor so you can fine tune its position from a comfortable arm chair. To be most effective your amplifier should be right at the antenna. Every foot of cable will attenuate the signal a litle bit so you get the most benefit of having the amplifier right on the mast. Some antennas come with an amplifier attached. Power to the amplifier is provided through the antenna cable using a power tap located at some convenient spot inside the house. A signal meter is a big help and many digital boxes include an on-screen readout. The meter on some boxes will work even on stations that are too weak to display a picture. Figure out which of your boxes will do that. Good luck Tom -- This is the end Beautiful friend This is the end My only friend, the end --TheDoors * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] DTV channel assignments
An article in TV Technology this week has some interesting news regarding channels after the DTV changeover. Sorry, no links, but I'll try to summarize. All stations currently transmitting DTV are using UHF frequencies, and that's pretty much all full power stations at this point, at least in all the larger cities. But, come the analog shut off date of Feb. 17, 2009, the FCC will allow stations to claim any of the VHF frequencies for their DTV signals. presumably on a first come basis(?). The author downloaded a list of applicants so far and the results are well, interesting. Note: VHF is actually two separate bands of frequencies: Low (ch 2-6) and High (ch 7-13). As of press time, 452 stations (25% of all stations) had applied to occupy the high VHF channels. Channel 13 (77 stations) is the most popular request, followed by ch 7 (69). Only 36 stations have opted to remain in the interference plagued Low VHF (channel 1 was so bad they dropped it in the early days of TV). 15 have gone with ch 5, the least popular is 4 (with only 1 station). Channels 2 3 have 6 stations each. Anyway, aside from the funny numbers, the lesson maybe to be learned here is that, despite the fact UHF antennas are being sold today for DTV reception, after the shutoff we may very well still need VHF antennas. Or not, because in the city even a UHF antenna would likely pick up strong VHF signals. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV channel assignments
On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Tony B wrote: Anyway, aside from the funny numbers, the lesson maybe to be learned here is that, despite the fact UHF antennas are being sold today for DTV reception, after the shutoff we may very well still need VHF antennas. Or not, because in the city even a UHF antenna would likely pick up strong VHF signals. There were plenty of admonitions to TV viewers to simply continue using their current antenna systems to view DTV programs as opposed to scrapping them in favor of rushing out and buying UHV antennas being hawked by retailers as digital television antennas. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] DTV confusion
Actually, in their FAQ at http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/info.aspx?page=FAQ#_Ref28770280 it also states: Most stations will continue to provide analog programming through February 17, 2009. At that point, full-power TV stations will cease broadcasting on their current analog channels, and the spectrum they use for analog broadcasting will be reclaimed and put to other uses. Talk about contradictions! On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Ralph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Antenna Web reports that in DC channels 4, 5, 7, and 9 will continue on VHF * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box ...more
On Mar 22, 2008, at 5:23 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Any information about the remotes these converter boxes use? Will I need one remote to change channels and another remote to adjust volume? The functions of the remotes that come with converter boxes vary from model to model and brand to brand. I have the Zenith DTT900 converter and its remote can control the on/off function of the TV, negating the need to have to use two remotes. It also can control the volume output of the converter box. Some converter remotes cannot perform either of these functions. It is wise to fully investigate the specifications and functions of the converter box and associated accessories prior to making a decision about which one to obtain. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box ...more
would rather eat dirt than pay for cable. Amen. Never had cable, and hope the need never arises... * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box ...more
Over the past 20 years I have been very thankful for cable. There are many areas of the US where TV station coverage is slim. When we lived in Canada, we have about 8 different stations (Canadian, NY and PA) to pick from without cable (not present) When we lived in Rural Wisconsin we had about 8-10 stations (LaCrosse, EauClaire, Minn/St.Paul) But in many other areas we had sever limitations on reception necessitating cable to get any type of variety. BY the way the Dish folks are not much better. Some of my folks who have dish cannot get the network stations they want and cannot get all of them via Dish. Via cable we can watch events from my sons university up the road. Could not do that via antenna or dish. Stewart At 08:21 AM 3/24/2008, you wrote: would rather eat dirt than pay for cable. Amen. Never had cable, and hope the need never arises... Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box ...more
Antennaweb shows that at 9 degrees and when I look at the antenna that was installed by a professional tower jockey who tested signal strength (analog at that time) it looks to be around that vector... The analog reception for the big four is generally excellent. I don't know what else to do. My antenna has a rotor but it froze longtime back and is now static at 9 degrees. -Original Message- From: John Duncan Yoyo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 11:52 PM Subject: Re: dtv converter box ...more This sounds like Philadelphia and IMS most of the transmitters are grouped near each other in Roxborough on a high spot. Get the vectors from antenna web and a compass to point the antenna correctly. On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 22, 2008, at 5:23 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Any information about the remotes these converter boxes use? Will I need one remote to change channels and another remote to adjust volume? The functions of the remotes that come with converter boxes vary from model to model and brand to brand. I have the Zenith DTT900 converter and its remote can control the on/off function of the TV, negating the need to have to use two remotes. It also can control the volume output of the converter box. Some converter remotes cannot perform either of these functions. It is wise to fully investigate the specifications and functions of the converter box and associated accessories prior to making a decision about which one to obtain. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box ...more
Interestingly opera 9.50b browser puts up a warning for antennaweb.org as a registered malware risk site...?? McAfee Site Advisor gives them a green check mark. As do I. I went there and found my location and it shows only 2 digital channels none of which is what I get ...it's inaccurate. I don't know how often they update their data. It used to be that antenna information did not change for decades at a time. These days my Replay changes its channel line up several times a year. Looking at the list for my area it is showing entries for planned 2009 changes so I assume they are keeping up. Did you enter your tower height in the options section? I wonder if there are differences in what box you get. I expect there would be big differences. There are big differences in various tuner technologies. That is why I'm looking for real specs and real reviews. I would rather eat dirt than pay for cable. Amen. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box ...more
Update...after windstorm ended, got about a dozen channels, some marginal, most grouped decimal versions of 4 base channels. Only getting cbs for the big4 not getting pbs or njn ...do get privately owned public broadcasting station wytv phila...huh? -Original Message- got the chp magnavox version from walmart in del valley ...here 1h s of phila getting only ch 3.1 ...good antenna on 40' tower pointed at city hall ...is that all there is ?? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box ...more
Update...after windstorm ended, got about a dozen channels, some marginal, most grouped decimal versions of 4 base channels. Only getting cbs for the big4 not getting pbs or njn ...do get privately owned public broadcasting station wytv phila...huh? I find I have to adjust my antenna in the Spring and in the Fall. I blame it on the trees. Did you use the information at antennaweb to guide your setup? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box ...more
This sounds like Philadelphia and IMS most of the transmitters are grouped near each other in Roxborough on a high spot. Get the vectors from antenna web and a compass to point the antenna correctly. On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 22, 2008, at 5:23 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Any information about the remotes these converter boxes use? Will I need one remote to change channels and another remote to adjust volume? The functions of the remotes that come with converter boxes vary from model to model and brand to brand. I have the Zenith DTT900 converter and its remote can control the on/off function of the TV, negating the need to have to use two remotes. It also can control the volume output of the converter box. Some converter remotes cannot perform either of these functions. It is wise to fully investigate the specifications and functions of the converter box and associated accessories prior to making a decision about which one to obtain. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
At this point I wouldn't bother with a digital tv box for a VCR but would look for a DVR/DVD recorder with a new digital tv tuner. If you get one with a hardrive to capture TV and a DVD burner to save what you want you should be in good shape. On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:28 PM, rlsimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For $40 coupon you get a tuner that outputs one channel. Some have passthrough which allows you to get the current analog signal, but you can just get a splitter to put in before the box if your tv has video 1,2,3 etc or aux inputs. I would pay more if I could get a box that is a multi output tuner that gives more than 1 channel (so you can use your vcr dvd recorder on it on separate channels). These boxes are directed at the people who don't have cable or dish and want a cheap way to keep their tv. They are not rocket science! -Original Message- From: Kyle R. Graybeal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: dtv converter box choice Just curious. If you have a antenna with more than one TV connected to it through a splitter, do you need a converter for each TV or will one suffice? Thanks Kyle Graybeal At 05:21 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: You can apply to get two $40 coupons for converter boxes at https://www.dtv2009.gov/. It takes a while to process. There is a long list of approved boxes on the site. One of the things to look for is a box that will pass through the RF signal when the box is off. This will allow you to use the current tuner for non digital signals. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Tony B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've seen no reports yet, but then none have yet been spotted in the wild. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:35 PM, rlsimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which dtv converter box is best? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] dtv converter box ...more
got the chp magnavox version from walmart in del valley ...here 1h s of phila getting only ch 3.1 ...good antenna on 40' tower pointed at city hall ...is that all there is ?? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box ...more
On Mar 21, 2008, at 5:08 PM, rlsimon wrote: got the chp magnavox version from walmart in del valley ...here 1h s of phila getting only ch 3.1 ...good antenna on 40' tower pointed at city hall ...is that all there is ?? Go to this site: www.antennaweb.org * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
For $40 coupon you get a tuner that outputs one channel. Some have passthrough which allows you to get the current analog signal, but you can just get a splitter to put in before the box if your tv has video 1,2,3 etc or aux inputs. I would pay more if I could get a box that is a multi output tuner that gives more than 1 channel (so you can use your vcr dvd recorder on it on separate channels). These boxes are directed at the people who don't have cable or dish and want a cheap way to keep their tv. They are not rocket science! -Original Message- From: Kyle R. Graybeal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:38 AM Subject: Re: dtv converter box choice Just curious. If you have a antenna with more than one TV connected to it through a splitter, do you need a converter for each TV or will one suffice? Thanks Kyle Graybeal At 05:21 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: You can apply to get two $40 coupons for converter boxes at https://www.dtv2009.gov/. It takes a while to process. There is a long list of approved boxes on the site. One of the things to look for is a box that will pass through the RF signal when the box is off. This will allow you to use the current tuner for non digital signals. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Tony B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've seen no reports yet, but then none have yet been spotted in the wild. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:35 PM, rlsimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which dtv converter box is best? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) *** ** ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
You can apply to get two $40 coupons for converter boxes at https://www.dtv2009.gov/. It takes a while to process. There is a long list of approved boxes on the site. One of the things to look for is a box that will pass through the RF signal when the box is off. This will allow you to use the current tuner for non digital signals. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Tony B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've seen no reports yet, but then none have yet been spotted in the wild. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:35 PM, rlsimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which dtv converter box is best? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
Just curious. If you have a antenna with more than one TV connected to it through a splitter, do you need a converter for each TV or will one suffice? Thanks Kyle Graybeal At 05:21 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: You can apply to get two $40 coupons for converter boxes at https://www.dtv2009.gov/. It takes a while to process. There is a long list of approved boxes on the site. One of the things to look for is a box that will pass through the RF signal when the box is off. This will allow you to use the current tuner for non digital signals. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:05 PM, Tony B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've seen no reports yet, but then none have yet been spotted in the wild. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:35 PM, rlsimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which dtv converter box is best? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
On Mar 19, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Kyle R. Graybeal wrote: Just curious. If you have a antenna with more than one TV connected to it through a splitter, do you need a converter for each TV or will one suffice? The converter box accepts an antenna connection via a standard television RF connector. The video output is by means of either an RF feed to the antenna terminal of the TV set, or by way of an RCA type cable to the video input jack on the TV if it is so equipped. If using the RCA type video cable, then you will also need to use RCA type cables for the audio as well. If using the RF means of getting the output to the TV, the audio and video are combined, and no separate audio input is required. So, that means that more than one TV can be connected to the same converter box by splitting the output signal(s), with the provision that they will both be displaying the signal from the same station because the tuning is achieved by the tuner within the converter box, not by the tuner in the television set(s). Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
www.dtv2009.gov I have read these things: Walmart has one listed by thompson/RCA that stands up on its edge and has a better remote for the same price but not in stock at any walmart around here...magnavox they have some say the remote is flimsy and not full featured. Others say if you are gonna use more than one if say you have a vcr with a tuner to supply you should not get brandmates as the remote may make both boxes change the channel. I have been unsuccessful at finding the thompson/RCA (which is the one I want) at a WalMart in the Delaware valley...they only have the magnavox which is also sold at radioshacks. I see reviews of it on the walmart website so they must have sold them before. -Original Message- From: Judy Cosler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 9:33 PM Subject: Re: dtv converter box choice what coupons are these? from where? John Duncan Yoyo wrote: I got my coupons last week but I haven't had a chance to run out and use them. I needed three however and I picked up the Magnavox at WalMart. It seems to work OK with an indoor antenna. I get all the major networks. It is spotty on 26 WETA and sometimes it drops it. I have an outdoor antenna that I need to put up for the rest of the channels. I want to try and get Baltimore. I can pull that in on rabbit ears in the kitchen with a standard tuner. My favorite feature is the toggle switch on the side. You can use the remote to switch it on and to standby but the switch turns it all the way off. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our local Walmart has a stack of them, but then again I have not received my coupons yet. Stewart At 05:05 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: I've seen no reports yet, but then none have yet been spotted in the wild. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:35 PM, rlsimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which dtv converter box is best? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
Steve, Well that's not the answer I was hoping to hear, but thanks for the info. Kyle At 04:40 PM 3/19/2008, you wrote: On Mar 19, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Kyle R. Graybeal wrote: Just curious. If you have a antenna with more than one TV connected to it through a splitter, do you need a converter for each TV or will one suffice? The converter box accepts an antenna connection via a standard television RF connector. The video output is by means of either an RF feed to the antenna terminal of the TV set, or by way of an RCA type cable to the video input jack on the TV if it is so equipped. If using the RCA type video cable, then you will also need to use RCA type cables for the audio as well. If using the RF means of getting the output to the TV, the audio and video are combined, and no separate audio input is required. So, that means that more than one TV can be connected to the same converter box by splitting the output signal(s), with the provision that they will both be displaying the signal from the same station because the tuning is achieved by the tuner within the converter box, not by the tuner in the television set(s). Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
which dtv converter box is best? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
I got my coupons last week but I haven't had a chance to run out and use them. I needed three however and I picked up the Magnavox at WalMart. It seems to work OK with an indoor antenna. I get all the major networks. It is spotty on 26 WETA and sometimes it drops it. I have an outdoor antenna that I need to put up for the rest of the channels. I want to try and get Baltimore. I can pull that in on rabbit ears in the kitchen with a standard tuner. My favorite feature is the toggle switch on the side. You can use the remote to switch it on and to standby but the switch turns it all the way off. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our local Walmart has a stack of them, but then again I have not received my coupons yet. Stewart At 05:05 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: I've seen no reports yet, but then none have yet been spotted in the wild. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:35 PM, rlsimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which dtv converter box is best? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
Best Buy also carries them - 1 brand, 1 model, listing for $59.99. Coupons should be available online. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
what coupons are these? from where? John Duncan Yoyo wrote: I got my coupons last week but I haven't had a chance to run out and use them. I needed three however and I picked up the Magnavox at WalMart. It seems to work OK with an indoor antenna. I get all the major networks. It is spotty on 26 WETA and sometimes it drops it. I have an outdoor antenna that I need to put up for the rest of the channels. I want to try and get Baltimore. I can pull that in on rabbit ears in the kitchen with a standard tuner. My favorite feature is the toggle switch on the side. You can use the remote to switch it on and to standby but the switch turns it all the way off. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 6:18 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our local Walmart has a stack of them, but then again I have not received my coupons yet. Stewart At 05:05 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: I've seen no reports yet, but then none have yet been spotted in the wild. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 5:35 PM, rlsimon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: which dtv converter box is best? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
On Mar 18, 2008, at 5:35 PM, rlsimon wrote: which dtv converter box is best? I recently obtained my two coupons. I used one of them to buy the Zenith DTT-900 unit which has been favorably reviewed thus far, particularly in regard to its RF front end. I use it in conjunction with an indoor cubic quad VHF/UHF antenna made by Terk that seems to work pretty well for both TV bands. Around the DC area, most stations are on UHF for their digital broadcasts, and the fact of the matter is that any regular old TV antenna is all that is required for digital reception. There is no such thing as a digital or HDTV-specific antenna, although a lot of advertising tries to convince consumers otherwise. I am going to hold on to the other coupon until it nears expiration, which is 90 days, to see what other converters become available a bit later on. The prices should also decline. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] dtv converter box choice
Magnavox are the ones at Walmart. Stewart At 08:47 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: On Mar 18, 2008, at 5:35 PM, rlsimon wrote: which dtv converter box is best? I recently obtained my two coupons. I used one of them to buy the Zenith DTT-900 unit which has been favorably reviewed thus far, particularly in regard to its RF front end. I use it in conjunction with an indoor cubic quad VHF/UHF antenna made by Terk that seems to work pretty well for both TV bands. Around the DC area, most stations are on UHF for their digital broadcasts, and the fact of the matter is that any regular old TV antenna is all that is required for digital reception. There is no such thing as a digital or HDTV-specific antenna, although a lot of advertising tries to convince consumers otherwise. I am going to hold on to the other coupon until it nears expiration, which is 90 days, to see what other converters become available a bit later on. The prices should also decline. Steve * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** * Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace Ozark, AL SL 82 * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
[CGUYS] DTV converters for old analog sets
www.dtv.gov for information about the program www.dtv2009.gov for your free coupons for $40 off a converter (or $80 off 2 converters). The converters are reportedly just reaching the stores. Wal-mart has them on-line. They have been seen in Best Buy in some remote areas of the country. The coupons, which are valid for 90 days, will be mailed out when the converters are available, so they are supposedly just starting the mailings. There are still problems receiving the digital signals in many areas. Some of the stations are supposedly not yet using their full authorized power. Many people are complaining that they can't receive digital signals from stations that had previously been OK with analog. Also, a couple of years ago there were reportedly big differences in the ability of sets to receive the signals, but this has supposedly been resolved. * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV converters for old analog sets
The converters are reportedly just reaching the stores. Have you seen any reviews? Do they all come from the same factory in China? Do some do better with weak signals? * ** List info, subscription management, list rules, archives, privacy ** ** policy, calmness, a member map, and more at http://www.cguys.org/ ** *
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
Digital TV doesn't carry as far as analog. We get ZERO channels using the digital tuners. A few months back I saw a chart of the power used for the different channels. In almost all cases the power on the HD channels was much less than for the old analog channels. Perhaps when they drop analog, the power on the digital channels will be increased? In the days before cable and even now when cable does not carry all digital channels there is a good reason for the station to make their power as high as possible. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
Unlikely. Stations are licensed by the FCC for a specific power on a specific frequency, and getting approval for more power is almost unheard of since they'll always be stepping on someone else's toes. They're spending small fortunes to buy new transmitters, and it seems unlikely they'll buy one that only outputs a fraction of what they're approved for, then buy another one next year. Sometimes stations can improve coverage by leasing/building better transmitter antennas (location, altitude, polarization, etc.). More likely *receivers* will improve, digging more signal out of the background noise. And people will learn to set up the picky antennas better. i.e., pointing it right _here_ for this channel, and pointing it right _here_ for another. On Jan 8, 2008 4:57 PM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Digital TV doesn't carry as far as analog. We get ZERO channels using the digital tuners. A few months back I saw a chart of the power used for the different channels. In almost all cases the power on the HD channels was much less than for the old analog channels. Perhaps when they drop analog, the power on the digital channels will be increased? In the days before cable and even now when cable does not carry all digital channels there is a good reason for the station to make their power as high as possible. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
But it's not SD vs HD, it's analog vs digital. Every single show is not going to be suddenly HD, it will simply be broadcast in digital. Sorry no widescreen HD gilligan's island for you tom. Mike On Jan 6, 2008 10:54 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The answer avoids an important issue. The aspect ratio of SD vs. HD is different. This means that your already small SD screen will be made even smaller when the HD size picture is letterboxed to fit on your SD screen. I bet you won't like it. DirecTV stated the following when I asked them: Standard, non-high-definition DIRECTV satellite equipment will not be obsolete when the broadcast industry converts from an analog to digital format. Because DIRECTV equipment and broadcast centers are already digital, we must convert the current analog programming signals to digital signals before transmitting them to our satellites. We then beam these digital signals to your DIRECTV receiver. Standard DIRECTV receivers are designed to work for many years to come to provide the same high-quality standard-definition programming that you enjoy as a DIRECTV customer today. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
For comparison of signals when I was running satellite trucks, the analog signal power range was between 50 - 200 watts with it usually ending up around 75 (200 was during a hurricane). Last I remember, digital transmissions were in the 25 watt range. Signal bleed was a huge problem in both formats so I would have to concur with Tony; what you have now, transmission-wise, is it. They are cramming so many signals in the bandwidth that it doesn't take much to interfere. 5 years ago we weren't even allowed to put up 100% color bars due to analog interference. Richard P. Unlikely. Stations are licensed by the FCC for a specific power on a specific frequency, and getting approval for more power is almost unheard of since they'll always be stepping on someone else's toes. They're spending small fortunes to buy new transmitters, and it seems unlikely they'll buy one that only outputs a fraction of what they're approved for, then buy another one next year. Sometimes stations can improve coverage by leasing/building better transmitter antennas (location, altitude, polarization, etc.). More likely *receivers* will improve, digging more signal out of the background noise. And people will learn to set up the picky antennas better. i.e., pointing it right _here_ for this channel, and pointing it right _here_ for another. Digital TV doesn't carry as far as analog. We get ZERO channels using the digital tuners. A few months back I saw a chart of the power used for the different channels. In almost all cases the power on the HD channels was much less than for the old analog channels. Perhaps when they drop analog, the power on the digital channels will be increased? In the days before cable and even now when cable does not carry all digital channels there is a good reason for the station to make their power as high as possible. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
Ginger and Maryann in HD? Glorious. Mike On Jan 8, 2008 4:20 PM, John Duncan Yoyo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What there is HD Star Trek TOS. Things that were done on actual film can be upgraded to HD. HD Gilligans could happen. On Jan 8, 2008 6:01 PM, mike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But it's not SD vs HD, it's analog vs digital. Every single show is not going to be suddenly HD, it will simply be broadcast in digital. Sorry no widescreen HD gilligan's island for you tom. Mike On Jan 6, 2008 10:54 AM, Tom Piwowar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The answer avoids an important issue. The aspect ratio of SD vs. HD is different. This means that your already small SD screen will be made even smaller when the HD size picture is letterboxed to fit on your SD screen. I bet you won't like it. DirecTV stated the following when I asked them: Standard, non-high-definition DIRECTV satellite equipment will not be obsolete when the broadcast industry converts from an analog to digital format. Because DIRECTV equipment and broadcast centers are already digital, we must convert the current analog programming signals to digital signals before transmitting them to our satellites. We then beam these digital signals to your DIRECTV receiver. Standard DIRECTV receivers are designed to work for many years to come to provide the same high-quality standard-definition programming that you enjoy as a DIRECTV customer today. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
On Jan 8, 2008, at 4:57 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote: Digital TV doesn't carry as far as analog. We get ZERO channels using the digital tuners. A few months back I saw a chart of the power used for the different channels. In almost all cases the power on the HD channels was much less than for the old analog channels. Perhaps when they drop analog, the power on the digital channels will be increased? No. Part of the reason for lesser range is to provide for protection of the area being 'serviced' by a given channel. The inability of Washington area viewers to be able to see Baltimore stations is considered to be a plus, not a negative. Steve * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
DirecTV stated the following when I asked them: Standard, non-high-definition DIRECTV satellite equipment will not be obsolete when the broadcast industry converts from an analog to digital format. Because DIRECTV equipment and broadcast centers are already digital, we must convert the current analog programming signals to digital signals before transmitting them to our satellites. We then beam these digital signals to your DIRECTV receiver. Standard DIRECTV receivers are designed to work for many years to come to provide the same high-quality standard-definition programming that you enjoy as a DIRECTV customer today. Steve Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote: Only if Direct TV tells you, you need to. Stewart At 07:23 PM 1/2/2008, you wrote: This may be moving off topic, but I've had some questions about DTV. I have DirecTV for 9 years, thus my dish and receiver are old. My TV is about 4 years old. Will I have to change anything? Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace Ozark, AL SL 82 * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
The answer avoids an important issue. The aspect ratio of SD vs. HD is different. This means that your already small SD screen will be made even smaller when the HD size picture is letterboxed to fit on your SD screen. I bet you won't like it. DirecTV stated the following when I asked them: Standard, non-high-definition DIRECTV satellite equipment will not be obsolete when the broadcast industry converts from an analog to digital format. Because DIRECTV equipment and broadcast centers are already digital, we must convert the current analog programming signals to digital signals before transmitting them to our satellites. We then beam these digital signals to your DIRECTV receiver. Standard DIRECTV receivers are designed to work for many years to come to provide the same high-quality standard-definition programming that you enjoy as a DIRECTV customer today. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV coupons
The program to request coupons only started the first of the year how could you have ordered coupons already? On Jan 3, 2008 1:09 AM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 2, 2008, at 6:21 PM, Robert wrote: One possibility is that you checked the statement on the web site https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx that says All or some of the TVs in my house subscribe to one or more pay services, such as cable or satellite. A viable hypothesis, but I think the reason I was ineligible is because I had already applied for a couple of the coupons, but had forgotten about that. What puzzled me most and created my consternation was the claim as I tried to apply was that I had already RECEIVED coupons. Had I been informed that my application for coupons was being rejected because their records showed that I had previously APPLIED for coupons, I would have understood. The DTV coupon website makes it clear that no coupons will be sent out until sometime in February or March of 2008. Thus their claim that I had already RECEIVED coupons caused me to begin scratching my head, trying to figure out what the heck was going on. But then again, it's the government, and worse yet, it's a government agency that deals with consumer issues which is certainly not their strongest suit. Steve * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
You can check what they theoretically expect you to be able to get with an antenna at http://www.antennaweb.org. This takes your address and generates a list of receivable stations and a map of the direction each of those stations lay from your location. I know from experience I can now easily receive the 'analog' signals from Baltimore with a pair of rabbit ears in Fairfax county VA. They don't expect that I could get the Digital signals. On Jan 2, 2008 10:55 PM, b_s-wilk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since this *is* a technical list, let's not get things confused. It's not the television *receivers* that are changing to digital, it's the *transmitters*. That's why people with cable or satellite are unaffected by the changeover. Coinciding with the DTV *transmitter* changeover is a new television broadcast standard. The one your old tv uses is NTSC which has been around since 1940. The new standard is ATSC which will officially be inaugurated February 17, 2009, currently the day the last of the old analog NTSC *transmitters* is to be turned off in the US. But actually most large market stations are already broadcasting ATSC. The change from analog to digital definitely DOES affect those of us who have digital TVs. We have analog service on all of our televisions--two are also digital. We are about 50 mile from the closest transmitters and get fair to good analog reception with rabbit ears. Digital TV doesn't carry as far as analog. We get ZERO channels using the digital tuners. That means we will have to pay several hundred dollars to get an antenna that might be powerful enough to pull in a digital broadcast. Otherwise we'll be forced to watch no local channels on two of our TVs or pay big bucks for cable, FIOS or satellite on those TVs that today get decent analog reception. Will the broadcast channels boost their transmission so that we can get the same service we had with analog? I won't hold my breath waiting. Who is supposed to benefit from this change? I doubt it's consumers. This is yet another bad idea pushed through corporate government by industry lobbyists without consideration for consumers. Betty * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV coupons
On Jan 3, 2008, at 7:01 AM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: The program to request coupons only started the first of the year how could you have ordered coupons already? This is part of my puzzlement. The website as well as their telephone coupon request system tells me that I have already RECEIVED coupons for the converters, and I am thus ineligible to apply for same. Thus, with that information in mind, I am only left to suppose that somehow I had previously applied for coupons. Attempts to speak to an actual living and breathing person have proven fruitless thus far. But, hey, it's a consumer advocacy government agency, and I truly believe that mix to be an oxymoron anyway. Steve * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
[CGUYS] DTV converter coupons
Only some of the converter boxes that MAY become available can be obtained with coupons. Most retailers have no particular desire to offer converter boxes because to do so would likely reduce their sales of new digital televisions. Most retailers, at this point in time, have placed no orders for converters with any manufacturers. Most available manufacturers are not even planning to make converters because they see too small a market for them. As I have heard from other sources, the whole thing is a big, big mess, and it could well be that no converters will ever be available to anyone on any reasonable retail scale. Additionally, retailers and manufacturers do not view themselves as being responsible for analog TV owners being able to continue using their analog television sets. Bottom line? It is a quagmire of mismanagement, collusion and confusion, and in the final analysis, do not expect to get anything. http://content.times-herald.com/290648704483489.bsp Steve * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV converter coupons
I suspect that I may end up get a 'converter' through the purchase of somethng like a VCR or a DVD recorder that has another purpose. I have an old TV that I have used a VCR as a tuner since the TV's tuner was incompatible with my former cable provider. It isn't wort replacing but may get upgraded by a hand me down TV that gets replaced with a more modern set. On Jan 3, 2008 10:46 AM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only some of the converter boxes that MAY become available can be obtained with coupons. Most retailers have no particular desire to offer converter boxes because to do so would likely reduce their sales of new digital televisions. Most retailers, at this point in time, have placed no orders for converters with any manufacturers. Most available manufacturers are not even planning to make converters because they see too small a market for them. As I have heard from other sources, the whole thing is a big, big mess, and it could well be that no converters will ever be available to anyone on any reasonable retail scale. Additionally, retailers and manufacturers do not view themselves as being responsible for analog TV owners being able to continue using their analog television sets. Bottom line? It is a quagmire of mismanagement, collusion and confusion, and in the final analysis, do not expect to get anything. http://content.times-herald.com/290648704483489.bsp Steve * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV converter coupons
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:46:10 -0500, Steve Rigby wrote: As I have heard from other sources, the whole thing is a big, big mess, and it could well be that no converters will ever be available to anyone on any reasonable retail scale. Additionally, retailers and manufacturers do not view themselves as being responsible for analog TV owners being able to continue using their analog television sets. Bottom line? It is a quagmire of mismanagement, collusion and confusion, and in the final analysis, do not expect to get anything. AKA Mission Accomplished -- R:\katan Tea. . .Earl Grey. . .Hot * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV coupons
Well it just worked with Internet Explorer. On Jan 1, 2008 10:30 PM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tried to apply for a couple of DTV coupons from the feds this evening. They tell me I am ineligible for such because I have already received coupons for digital to analog converter boxes. How would they even know if I had received a coupon if I have not used it as yet, which I haven't because I have not gotten any blasted DTV coupons? The website even says that the coupons are not going to be provided to applicants until February or March of 2008? So, how could I have gotten them already? If they meant that I have already applied for such coupons, which I do not recall having done, that is not what was said. They said I had received them already. Then, upon trying to appeal this 'decision on-line, or to get some kind of answer, I discover that their appeal dialog box only allows for only about 40 or so characters. Can't make much of an argument in that amount of space!! Anyway, after severely truncating my 'appeal' and clicking SUBMIT, I am informed that my session has timed out and I am sent back to the start page again. Various browsers, all with cookies set, end up with the same result upon the appeal attempt. I betcha it'll work with IE, but at this point, to heck with the feds trying to make it hard in this poor little consumer. Their telephone hotline, billed as the place to call for answers to your questions, is all automated with voice un-recognition. Good Lord, I should have known better that to begin the New Year trying to deal with the gummint! Steve The URL if you want to abuse yourself...https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV coupons
On Jan 2, 2008, at 7:21 AM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Well it just worked with Internet Explorer. Just as I suspected! Harry New Year! Steve * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV coupons
It is probably worth a complaint to your representatives. FEMA had the same problem. It is a good thing that I have both a PC and Mac. On Jan 2, 2008 9:36 AM, Steve Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 2, 2008, at 7:21 AM, John Duncan Yoyo wrote: Well it just worked with Internet Explorer. Just as I suspected! Harry New Year! Steve * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV coupons
One possibility is that you checked the statement on the web site https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx that says All or some of the TVs in my house subscribe to one or more pay services, such as cable or satellite. According to the rule, copied below, you are eligible for a coupon only if you don't have either cable TV or satellite TV for you analog TV receivers. In the NPRM, NTIA proposed to define those U.S. households eligible to participate in the Coupon Program as “those households that only receive over-the-air television signals using analog-only television receivers.^[ 10 ] http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2a.htm#ftn010 NTIA further proposed to make households that receive cable or satellite television service, even if those households have one or more analog television signals not connected to such service, ineligible for the Coupon Program. http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2a.htm Steve Rigby wrote: I tried to apply for a couple of DTV coupons from the feds this evening. They tell me I am ineligible for such because I have already received coupons for digital to analog converter boxes. How would they even know if I had received a coupon if I have not used it as yet, which I haven't because I have not gotten any blasted DTV coupons? The website even says that the coupons are not going to be provided to applicants until February or March of 2008? So, how could I have gotten them already? If they meant that I have already applied for such coupons, which I do not recall having done, that is not what was said. They said I had received them already. Then, upon trying to appeal this 'decision on-line, or to get some kind of answer, I discover that their appeal dialog box only allows for only about 40 or so characters. Can't make much of an argument in that amount of space!! Anyway, after severely truncating my 'appeal' and clicking SUBMIT, I am informed that my session has timed out and I am sent back to the start page again. Various browsers, all with cookies set, end up with the same result upon the appeal attempt. I betcha it'll work with IE, but at this point, to heck with the feds trying to make it hard in this poor little consumer. Their telephone hotline, billed as the place to call for answers to your questions, is all automated with voice un-recognition. Good Lord, I should have known better that to begin the New Year trying to deal with the gummint! Steve The URL if you want to abuse yourself...https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
[CGUYS] DTV future
Since this *is* a technical list, let's not get things confused. It's not the television *receivers* that are changing to digital, it's the *transmitters*. That's why people with cable or satellite are unaffected by the changeover. Coinciding with the DTV *transmitter* changeover is a new television broadcast standard. The one your old tv uses is NTSC which has been around since 1940. The new standard is ATSC which will officially be inaugurated February 17, 2009, currently the day the last of the old analog NTSC *transmitters* is to be turned off in the US. But actually most large market stations are already broadcasting ATSC. As of last month when I last checked there are still many NTSC-only tuners on the shelf at Walmart (TVs, VCRs, DVD recorders). By law they must now carry a notice that they will not receive ATSC broadcasts. In practical terms, DTV currently equates to ATSC. However, most circuits in televisions have been digital for years. Oh, and to answer your specific question, no, none of the formats in ATSC include any kind of audio locking. And I actually read the TV trade mags, and rest assured the sync issues are driving broadcasters batty right now. I wouldn't replace a working TV right now just for the heck of it. If it's still running 2/09, and if congress doesn't postpone the changeover yet again, just get one of the converter boxes. OTOH If I was shopping today I wouldn't buy the old stock that lacks ATSC (DTV) tuners. On Jan 2, 2008 5:20 PM, Constance Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if manufacturers are doing anything to solve the synch problem in the next generations of TV's? Or is this a bug that's inherent in the system, and for which there is no practical bugfix? We have an analog TV that's on its last legs, and we're planning to replace it with digital. Is there any point in waiting until the technology gets better? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
This may be moving off topic, but I've had some questions about DTV. I have DirecTV for 9 years, thus my dish and receiver are old. My TV is about 4 years old. Will I have to change anything? Steve Tony B wrote: Since this *is* a technical list, let's not get things confused. It's not the television *receivers* that are changing to digital, it's the *transmitters*. That's why people with cable or satellite are unaffected by the changeover. Coinciding with the DTV *transmitter* changeover is a new television broadcast standard. The one your old tv uses is NTSC which has been around since 1940. The new standard is ATSC which will officially be inaugurated February 17, 2009, currently the day the last of the old analog NTSC *transmitters* is to be turned off in the US. But actually most large market stations are already broadcasting ATSC. As of last month when I last checked there are still many NTSC-only tuners on the shelf at Walmart (TVs, VCRs, DVD recorders). By law they must now carry a notice that they will not receive ATSC broadcasts. In practical terms, DTV currently equates to ATSC. However, most circuits in televisions have been digital for years. Oh, and to answer your specific question, no, none of the formats in ATSC include any kind of audio locking. And I actually read the TV trade mags, and rest assured the sync issues are driving broadcasters batty right now. I wouldn't replace a working TV right now just for the heck of it. If it's still running 2/09, and if congress doesn't postpone the changeover yet again, just get one of the converter boxes. OTOH If I was shopping today I wouldn't buy the old stock that lacks ATSC (DTV) tuners. On Jan 2, 2008 5:20 PM, Constance Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know if manufacturers are doing anything to solve the synch problem in the next generations of TV's? Or is this a bug that's inherent in the system, and for which there is no practical bugfix? We have an analog TV that's on its last legs, and we're planning to replace it with digital. Is there any point in waiting until the technology gets better? * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
Only if Direct TV tells you, you need to. Stewart At 07:23 PM 1/2/2008, you wrote: This may be moving off topic, but I've had some questions about DTV. I have DirecTV for 9 years, thus my dish and receiver are old. My TV is about 4 years old. Will I have to change anything? Steve Rev. Stewart A. Marshall mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Prince of Peace Ozark, AL SL 82 * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV coupons
Nope I checked that and it worked. On Jan 2, 2008 6:21 PM, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One possibility is that you checked the statement on the web site https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx that says All or some of the TVs in my house subscribe to one or more pay services, such as cable or satellite. According to the rule, copied below, you are eligible for a coupon only if you don't have either cable TV or satellite TV for you analog TV receivers. In the NPRM, NTIA proposed to define those U.S. households eligible to participate in the Coupon Program as those households that only receive over-the-air television signals using analog-only television receivers.^[ 10 ] http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2a.htm#ftn010 NTIA further proposed to make households that receive cable or satellite television service, even if those households have one or more analog television signals not connected to such service, ineligible for the Coupon Program. http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2a.htm Steve Rigby wrote: I tried to apply for a couple of DTV coupons from the feds this evening. They tell me I am ineligible for such because I have already received coupons for digital to analog converter boxes. How would they even know if I had received a coupon if I have not used it as yet, which I haven't because I have not gotten any blasted DTV coupons? The website even says that the coupons are not going to be provided to applicants until February or March of 2008? So, how could I have gotten them already? If they meant that I have already applied for such coupons, which I do not recall having done, that is not what was said. They said I had received them already. Then, upon trying to appeal this 'decision on-line, or to get some kind of answer, I discover that their appeal dialog box only allows for only about 40 or so characters. Can't make much of an argument in that amount of space!! Anyway, after severely truncating my 'appeal' and clicking SUBMIT, I am informed that my session has timed out and I am sent back to the start page again. Various browsers, all with cookies set, end up with the same result upon the appeal attempt. I betcha it'll work with IE, but at this point, to heck with the feds trying to make it hard in this poor little consumer. Their telephone hotline, billed as the place to call for answers to your questions, is all automated with voice un-recognition. Good Lord, I should have known better that to begin the New Year trying to deal with the gummint! Steve The URL if you want to abuse yourself...https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived -- John Duncan Yoyo ---o) * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV coupons
If you really don't need one, why sign up for one? Why not two? How the heck are we supposed to read the following FAQ? Is that TWO boxes or TWO coupons, ONE box? How many coupons can I request? Each household can request a maximum of two coupons. Each coupon may be applied towards the purchase of a single converter box. The coupons can be ordered one at a time or both at the same time. On Jan 2, 2008 8:52 PM, b_s-wilk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the link, folks. I just signed up for 2 TVs and got an OK for a coupon, with a confirmation number. I checked the box saying that we have pay service [satellite], and the application went through. * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
Re: [CGUYS] DTV future
Since this *is* a technical list, let's not get things confused. It's not the television *receivers* that are changing to digital, it's the *transmitters*. That's why people with cable or satellite are unaffected by the changeover. Coinciding with the DTV *transmitter* changeover is a new television broadcast standard. The one your old tv uses is NTSC which has been around since 1940. The new standard is ATSC which will officially be inaugurated February 17, 2009, currently the day the last of the old analog NTSC *transmitters* is to be turned off in the US. But actually most large market stations are already broadcasting ATSC. The change from analog to digital definitely DOES affect those of us who have digital TVs. We have analog service on all of our televisions--two are also digital. We are about 50 mile from the closest transmitters and get fair to good analog reception with rabbit ears. Digital TV doesn't carry as far as analog. We get ZERO channels using the digital tuners. That means we will have to pay several hundred dollars to get an antenna that might be powerful enough to pull in a digital broadcast. Otherwise we'll be forced to watch no local channels on two of our TVs or pay big bucks for cable, FIOS or satellite on those TVs that today get decent analog reception. Will the broadcast channels boost their transmission so that we can get the same service we had with analog? I won't hold my breath waiting. Who is supposed to benefit from this change? I doubt it's consumers. This is yet another bad idea pushed through corporate government by industry lobbyists without consideration for consumers. Betty * == QUICK LIST-COMMAND REFERENCE - Put the following commands in == * == the body of an email send 'em to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] == * Join the list: SUBSCRIBE COMPUTERGUYS-L Your Name * Too much mail? Try Daily Digests command: SET COMPUTERGUYS-L DIGEST * Tired of the List? Unsubscribe command: SIGNOFF COMPUTERGUYS-L * New address? From OLD address send: CHANGE COMPUTERGUYS-L YourNewAddress * Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * List archive from 1/1/2000 is on the MARC http://marc.info/?l=computerguys-l * List archive at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/ * RSS at www.mail-archive.com/computerguys-l@listserv.aol.com/maillist.xml * Messages bearing the header X-No-Archive: yes will not be archived
