Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs
Hi Marion I can't speak to what happened in Tyrone with your family but I grew up in a Scot-Irish community in Canada and what you described of the family, daughter and illegitimate child would be very typical of how they would be treated in our community. In my family and neighbours they were still like a Clan while not obviously officially. Children who were related and some who were not but fell under the protection of the Clan were looked after by the family best able to care for them and keep them in the community. There was always people who wanted to cast aspirations on to those children and their mothers but the Clan depending on it strength, physical or financial or other wise protected them from the harm that might befall them. They were raised usually in the community as an open secret which was understood and was not held against them. However out side that group was a different and often less forgiving story. Many children were rejected when new wives came on the scene or outside influences over took the family who sheltered the child. At these points the child or mother would if possible move around the group looking for work and a home. If that was impossible then it was brutally hard on those individuals. For that reason you see the movement of young people in the records as you do. That is my experience living in a world with few social services and close family ties. It was I believe probably a very old and effective way of caring for people who were in effect defenseless in a cruel world looking for scapegoats... Cheers Ron McCoy On 2020-06-22 7:15 a.m., Marion via CoTyroneList wrote: Elwyn, Many thanks for all the information and suggestions. I have been trying to access the book you recommended , not very successfully, but I have found some journal articles he wrote, so I shall be busy reading. I was interested in the view that couples mostly selected each other , as I have read elsewhere that marriage was more of a business matter with dowries being paid, and wondered how true this was. My own ancestors lived in the parish of Urney , in both Tyrone and Donegal. The Tyrone family were Church of Ireland and small farmers, and the men seemed to marry the daughters of neighbouring farmers, who were Presbyterians. I have wondered about the basis for their choice but it seems it was to do with demographics as much as anything. There were many daughters in the family ,some of whom married, some remained unmarried and others emigrated to America . Their lives seem to have been much more uncertain. My Donegal ancestors were Presbyterians and distinctly Ulster Scots and fit your description of their patterns of marriage, with the same family names being linked repeatedly over the generations and the marriage of relatives often occurring. This seems to have declined in the beginning of the twentieth century. My interest in illegitimacy was also related to an ancestor born out of wedlock in the Tyrone branch. The mother was the daughter of a small farmer whose wife had died when her children were very young. She disappeared from the records for a while but was obviously sent to St Johnstone in Donegal, as there is a baptism for her son recorded in Taughboyne Parish church in 1889. After this discreet birth she appears to have returned to the family although it is not clear what happened to her son. After her fathers death she continued there acting as housekeeper to her then unmarried brother. In 1901 she was still with her brother but looking at the inhabitants of another house on a neighbouring farm , owned by the family, her son, aged 11, is found lodging with them. By 1911 he was back with his mother, her brother and his wife in the family home. This was obviously a caring family, (her father had left her well provided for in his will) but they must have been concerned about the stigma of illegitimacy. I was curious about this and wondered if it was an isolated example but from what you say families were often as supportive as possible. Well thanks again for all your knowledgeable comments and your willingness to share. Regards Marion Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: elwyn soutter Sent: 21 June 2020 18:56 To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List Cc: Marion Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Marriage Customs Marion, I suspect that a full answer to your interesting question could fill a hundred pages. One source you might want to investigate is: “The Population of Ireland 1750 – 1845” by KH Connell, published in Oxford 1950. One of the many causes of the problems that plagued Ireland in the 1800s was the fact that there had been a massive population explosion. It went up from 3 million in 1741 to 8 million in 1841. (It’s only 6 million today). No-one is entirely certain why. A reduction in neo-natal death rates was a factor. Connell also speculates that they started to marry younger and that consequently the reproductive rate
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] McNutt /McCoy
Hi Len Thank you for taking the time to do the research I had not heard of the Ulster Biography link and will use it in future. I hope you found the research interesting? The Ulster perspective on Alexander is a great contrast to a Canadian biography. Alexander McNutt is an interesting character in Canada sometimes Lionized and sometimes disdained depending on the history one looks at. He had ties to people like Benjamin Franklin and "Mad Anthony" General Anthony Wayne. His run in with the British bureaucracy were legendary. Still he did manage to bring many settlers from Tyrone to Canada and insured they were treated as land owners not serfs. The records on line from Nova Scotia are spotty and I am told that a visit to the archives there is the best option. There are a number of McCoy settlers listed in the 1770 census and beyond but no record of where they came from in the census. Scot/Irish settlers came from Scotland and from the USA to settle in Nova Scotia at that time period. As always Len your help is much appreciated stay well. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2020-05-15 11:36 p.m., Len Swindley wrote: Hello Ron, Have done some research regarding Alexander McNutt and emigration to Nova Scotia: the following item is taken from the Dictionary of Ulster Biography https://www.newulsterbiography.co.uk/ Advertisements for this scheme could not have been advertised in the Londonderry papers as the first edition of the Londonderry Journal (as it was then known – did not become the Derry Journal until 1880) was issued in June 3, 1772. In addition to advertisements placed in the Belfast Newsletter, the scheme would have been widely promoted by emigration agents who followed the circuit of Fair Days and Market Days throughout Ulster. For any possible data surviving in Ireland, I suggest you enquire at PRONI, Belfast, and the Mellon Centre for Migration Studies, Ulster American Folk Park, Castletown, Omagh, Co. Tyrone https://mellonmigrationcentre.com/ (temporarily closed). My thoughts are that if any records have survived, they would be located in Nova Scotia, in the form of applications for land and grants. Regards, Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia ALEXANDER McNUTT (1725 - 1811): ARMY OFFICER AND COLONIAL DEVELOPER Alexander McNutt was one of the most prominent individuals involved in promoting emigration from Ulster to North America in the mid-nineteenth century. He was principally active in Nova Scotia, and had highly ambitious schemes to settle thousands of emigrants from Ulster there, plans which were initially successful but were frustrated by British government scepticism and their own ambitious nature. McNutt was born in Londonderry (though some sources say Donegal), and settled in Staunton, Virginia, in about 1750. During the wars against France in the 1750s, he raised and commanded as colonel a 30-strong militia. In 1760, in the wake of the British defeat of French forces, he was offered a large grant (£5,000) on condition that he settle large numbers of Protestants (deemed to be loyal to Britain) from the north of Ireland (the part of Ireland where mostly they lived). In May 1761, he placed an advertisement in the /Belfast Newsletter/ outlining the terms and practicalities involved, promising fertile land, perpetual deeds for the heads of families of 200 acres, with a further 50 for each child, favourable financial terms, low rents (none for the first ten years) and no tithes. Rather naughtily he omitted to mention that much of the land was still in its natural, uncultivated state, nor did he mention that much of the "choicest lands" referred to were already reserved. Nonetheless McNutt, who was a man possessed of considerable optimism as well as energy, crossed to Ulster to select agents, principally in Derry city (Arthur Vance), but also across Ulster, though distinctly more in the west; locations included Castledoe, Ramelton, Raphoe, Faun, Convoy and Letterkenny in County Donegal; Strabane and Omagh in Tyrone, Maghera in County Londonderry; he also had a representative in Castleblayney, County Monaghan. The geographical profile is of lowland and heavily Protestant areas of western Ulster, which already by this date had a tradition of out-migration. In 1761, he sent some 300 emigrants across the Atlantic to Nova Scotia and a further 70 in 1762 (though sources note that these were very rough figures); he later claimed to have settled over 1,000 families, exceeding the government's planned settling of 600. Land in Nova Scotia was not expensive, and New England was reckoned to be filling up. But his plans were experiencing some difficulties. His initial successes set off alarm bells in London, where it was feared that large depopulation of Protestants from Ulster "may yet be ...attended with dangerous consequences" to Britain, and decided to restrict settlement to those who had al
[CoTyroneMailingList] McNutt /McCoy
Hi All I am looking specifically for a McCoy family leaving Londenderry about 1760 going to Nova Scotia probably with Alexander McNutt group. He placed ads in the Londenderry papers looking for settlers to move to Nova Scotia. Between 1759 and 1761 he took charge of approximately 400 settler,. 350 in 1760 and about 50 more in 1761. Information on the group might help me find information on my McCoy family leaving Ireland. Intelligence about this group or others going to Nova Scotia in this time period would be greatly appreciated. cheers Ron McCoy ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] McFadden (Ron McCoy)
Hi Peter I am very interested as well in Wm. McFadden and the families who moved from Tyrone to Goulbourn however I have limited information on some of those families and hope to learn more myself. If you look on https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/McFadden-2094 it will connect you to his page and the connections I have made to his regiment and references. If he is a relative or connection to James McFadden I would greatly appreciate you dropping me a line. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-12-21 1:00 p.m., Peter Hurley via CoTyroneList wrote: I am interested in the McFadden (Co. Tyrone) lines in Canada. My ancestor, James McFadden, was reportedly born in Co. Tyrone (Cappagh Parish) between 1824-1831 but we have no documentation. James worked for the Hudson’s Bay Company from 1850 – 1858. He was a pioneer on Salt Spring Island, BC in 1862. James died in Kamloops, BC in 1902. Might he be the son of your ancestor, William McFadden? Thanks. Peter ng List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
[CoTyroneMailingList] McFadden
Hi I apologize for being too slow and Lenn got ahead of me with the answer on Wm McFadden's of the 100th regiment. I hale from Goulbourn Twp where Wm and my relatives settled. We have a very helpful museum staff and a group of volunteers who study the 100th including a reenactment group if it is of any help to you? Our family owned land on the 7th concession and Wm would have received land on the 8th concession so in effect we would have been neighbours. Those who stayed in Goulbourn were a very close group and families were tightly related over the course of years. The 100th regiment had as I remember about 60 who were paid out in land in Goulbourn but 12 members specifically where from Tyrone who took up land in Goulbourn. They lived in fairly close proximity to one another in Tyrone and I suspect they knew each other or were at least aware of each other before joining. I have researched that group an would enjoy speaking to you about them. Cheers Ron McCoy ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneList Digest, Vol 539, Issue 2
Hi Can you tell me what regiment he fought in in the War of 1812 in Canada? Do you know if was in the 100th regiment of foot? The name is familiar to me? Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-12-20 1:41 p.m., Josie Turbach via CoTyroneList wrote: Re: CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Tyrone Volunteers: A List of Officers, 1805 This is great - is anyone aware of similar lists for the group that went to Canada to fight in the War of 1812 and/or a list of "enlisted men" (as opposed to officers). My ancestor (William McFadden) is known to have come from County Tyrone to fight in that war and then he remained in Canada but none of us have been able to find any information about him before that / in Ireland. (your website has his obituary listed in the "born in Tyrone buried elsewhere" page). thanks. F Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - George Fulton, Newtownstewart, Co. Tyrone, Army Deserter, 1780
Thanks Gordon. Off line another person who knows quite a bit about the British regimental service mentioned to me that the British army was fastidious about keeping track of the soldiers they executed for desertion. They were this person said less likely to record a regular dissection. He felt if the soldier had been executed it would be clearly recorded in the records of the regiment almost certainly and would be a clue to knowing the fate of the possible family member. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-12-01 10:32 p.m., Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList wrote: > > Yes Ron, during the Irish wars of the mid 18thC there were many > deserters who joined the other side! It was a 2-way exchange too. > Depended on food, wages and the reliability of being fed, clothed and > housed than a particular loyalty. > > Gordon > > On 1/12/2019 8:51 pm, Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList wrote: >> >> Hi Bruce >> >> I have done a fair amount of reading on regiments of the British army >> and particular the 100th reg of Foot. I would not assume that your >> ancestor was killed for desertion. It appears that desertion was a >> very common problem in the army with extremely high percentages of >> soldiers walking away from their duties. Depending on the situation >> and circumstances the sentences where quite mixed and seldom >> involving the death penalty. Often corporal punishment was the rule >> of law. I suspect if they illuminated every soldier who deserted for >> various reasons the British army would have been very much smaller. >> >> Cheers >> >> Ron McCoy >> >> ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - George Fulton, Newtownstewart, Co. Tyrone, Army Deserter, 1780
Hi Bruce I have done a fair amount of reading on regiments of the British army and particular the 100th reg of Foot. I would not assume that your ancestor was killed for desertion. It appears that desertion was a very common problem in the army with extremely high percentages of soldiers walking away from their duties. Depending on the situation and circumstances the sentences where quite mixed and seldom involving the death penalty. Often corporal punishment was the rule of law. I suspect if they illuminated every soldier who deserted for various reasons the British army would have been very much smaller. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-12-01 3:00 a.m., Bruce Newport via CoTyroneList wrote: This is of interest to me. My FULTON line’s earliest ancestor is William FULTON (1736-1791) buried St Patrick’s Church of Ireland, Gortin and his sons Thomas (1766-1797), John (1783-1860), of Droit, and David (1784-1863). I assume the George FULTON, born about 1753 who deserted in 1780 would not have had a long life if, or after, he was captured. Thank you. Bruce Newport. From: Jim McKane via CoTyroneList<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2019 9:17 PM To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Cc: Jim McKane<mailto:j...@mckane.ca> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - George Fulton, Newtownstewart, Co. Tyrone, Army Deserter, 1780 George Fulton, Newtownstewart, Co. Tyrone, Army Deserter, 1780<https://www.cotyroneireland.com/muster/fulton.html> Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI! Jim McKane Kitchener, Ontario ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Altedesert Parish C of I Records and Pomeroy Presbyterian Records
Hi Len I am interested in the lists of all families in particular the McKee and Evans family from Pomeroy Cavanakeeran up to and around 1838. As you have mentioned before records for that period are hard to come by. In the Church records section of Pomeroy below it mentions the Pomeroy tithe applotment book (1829) Index to Townlands and Towns, Parishes and Baronies in Ireland (1851) and Heather, Peat and Stone-O’Kane have been consulted in an attempt to confirm families and townland addresses. How does one find these records? The site I used to access Tithe and Applotment books from are no longer available on line. Is there a new or alternative site? Would the other records (Heather, peat and Stone-o'Kane) you mention help me? Thanks for a wonderful site and great work. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-11-04 2:38 a.m., Len Swindley via CoTyroneList wrote: Peter, My thoughts are that you are looking at two different sets of records: it is perhaps rather easy to be confused. My transcriptions for ALTEDESERT https://www.cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/altedesert.html and POMEROY https://www.cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/pomeroy.html churches (as stated on the headers) are extracted from Civil Registration records which were filmed by the LDS in the 1960s. These are distinct from church registers. The filmed records in PRONI, Belfast are of the actual Church Registers, so it is possible to locate two records for marriages: one religious and the other civil. Many civil records are available online (with images from c1864) at https://www.cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/altedesert.html Good luck, Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] ADAMS from Omagh, County Tyrone
Hi Elwyn Thank you for the wealth of information these are the images of Irish life I wanted to know. John McKee as you have heard me say was living in Cavanakeeran when the Applotment records find him but later in Canada in 1841-2 census. Moving his family in 1838. He appears to be well established in Tyrone on the outskirts of a new town called Pomeroy. In the Canadian Census he is referring to himself as a farmer he is around 70 years old when he and I believe many people from his Presbyterian congregation pack up and move to Canada. The information you highlight for me deepens and broadens the picture of what their life was like. Can you think of any way this added information would help find our more about John McKee, Rev. David Evans or the settlers who set out from Cavanakeeran for Canada? Thank you for this great letter and all the details, a wonderful breadth of knowledge goes into this. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-06-21 11:23 a.m., elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote: > Ron, > > Ireland has always been a largely agricultural county. Land was the > biggest source of employment in the 1830s and it still is today. The > country has almost no natural resources eg coal, iron ore, valuable > minerals, oil etc and save for linen mills and ship building in > Belfast, the industrial revolution largely passed it by. And that was > one of the many factors that led to mass emigration from Ireland in > the 1800s. There had been a population explosion (up from 3 million in > 1741 to 8 million in 1841) and there were no jobs for most of those > people. And that’s before we consider the impact of the famine, > insecure tenure and lack of spare land. So whilst farming may be a > lowly occupation elsewhere, it was up near the top of the chain in > Ireland. Of course the size of the farm mattered too. There were a > lot of subsistence level cottiers and small farmers, with a few acres, > but there were some quite wealthy farmers too. If you go to the Ulster > American Folk Park near Omagh you can see various categories of farm. > The Campbell Household’s farm (originally near Plumbridge but now in > the Park) was a very wealthy farm, and they had hundreds of acres: > > https://www.nmni.com/our-museums/ulster-american-folk-park/Things-to-see/Campbell-House.aspx > > Then you had smaller ones like the Mellon farm (of the Mellon Bank > family). They had 23 acres: > > https://www.nmni.com/our-museums/ulster-american-folk-park/Things-to-see/Mellon-Homestead.aspx > > And there were much poorer ones than that. > > But most farmers were much better off than the average > labourer/weaver, especially in many of the Ulster Counties where a lot > of the land was better than in many other parts of Ireland, and you > could get a tolerable living from a surprisingly small piece of land. > > Farmers in Ireland were usually above labourers and servants in the > social class. Indeed they usually employed them. If you look at the > average farm on Griffiths Valuation, you’ll see that many had anywhere > between 1 and sometimes as many as 10 labourers cottages scattered > around the farm. The farm and farmhouse is usually shown as plot a, > and the cottages are b, c, d etc, with the farmer as landlord. Those > labourers normally rented from the immediate farmer (and not from his > landlord) and either paid their rent in cash or by an agreed number of > days work a year on the farm, or sometimes a mix of the two. Have a > look at the 1831 census for Co. Londonderry and you’ll also see how > many servants there were, and that gives you an idea of how many farms > had servants. > > It’s difficult to quantify how wealthy farmers were in simple money > terms because a lot was a barter economy. There were some things money > was needed for eg a ticket to America but a major part ran on barter. > So there may not have been much money in many a farmer’s bank but if > he had a 3 lives lease and a few cows and 25 acres of barley, hay, > flax and spuds he would have been pretty well off by the standards of > the time. The labourer with 2 or 3 perches of land, whose only cash > income was from a little winter home weaving, was right down the > bottom of the social order. A hand to mouth existence at times. > > During the famine years it was the labourers who starved. Many farmers > were quite well off. Indeed prices for barley and wheat rose during > the famine years. Few farmers in Ulster suffered starvation then. > Their potatoes were blighted but they had other resources to fall back > on. The labourers only had a few perches and you can grow more spuds > per acre than any other crop. Plus they are low maintenance. So they > were ideal for a labourer with little land and a large family. Till > the blight came of course and then they w
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] ADAMS from Omagh, County Tyrone
HI Elwyn In your response you say ," Only wealthier folk such as farmers and merchants could afford a gravestone." In our modern world Farmers are not considered wealthy people in North America they are down the cast system pretty far. Some of my family records in Tyrone or upon coming to Canada they list themselves as being Farmers as opposed to Labourers or servants or renters etc..like most of the other settlers here. Does them listing themselves as Farmers mean something more then we take from it today? Does it mean money or position in the 1830"s? Can you elaborate on that for me if it does what would that entail for them and their families? Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-06-21 8:33 a.m., elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote: > Darlene, > > You can use the Griffiths Valuation site to see where the surname > Adams was found in Co Tyrone in 1860. There are 144 listed, right > across the county. There were 223 Adams in the county in the 1901 > census. > > But the problem you really face is that hardly any parishes in Tyrone > have any records for the mid 1700s and so even if you knew exactly > where Thomas was born, there probably isn’t a documentary record of > it. > > With regard to burials, it very much depends on what their trade was > and again what denomination. Only the Church of Ireland routinely kept > burial records, so if your ancestors were another denomination it’s > unlikely that there will be any church records of their burials > (assuming records exist in the first place). Only wealthier folk such > as farmers and merchants could afford a gravestone, and the vast > majority of people were buried without one. So it’s important to try > and establish what their occupation was to assess the likelihood of > there being a gravestone to find. > > > ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
[CoTyroneMailingList] McQuaid/McQuaide
Hi Dorothy This is likely no help to you but on the of chance I though I would include it. There are two McQuaid names in the hundred regiment of Foot both named Mike one from Anghhlan and one from Kilskerry. One a school master and one a Labourer. They joined the regiment in 1812 and 1816 interestingly their names were spelled McQuaid and McQuaide I suspect to keep them separate. The Labourer Mike McQuaid was part of an immigration pattern to Goulbourn and took a land grant in Ontario and the other Mike likely returned to Tyrone. If this is of no relation of yours possibly it might help someone else? Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-06-03 7:48 a.m., Len Swindley via CoTyroneList wrote: Hello Dorothy, Thanks for your message and am saddened that nothing has turned up re. your McQuaids; some forebears just don’t want to be found. Assuming that the McQuaids and Crosseys were Catholic, I referred to the online RC registers for Clonfeacle https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0199 and found the occasional McQuaid/ McQuade/McWade entry, but with the greatest difficulty – the quality of filming is poor, many entries impossible to read and townlands are not recorded in the baptismal registers. Your forebears may be there, but who would know. There are several McQuaids and Crosseys recorded in the 1833 Clonfeacle tithe applotment book; perhaps you connected them to your research or gathered data relevant to them for future use? Best wishes, Len S ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Alexander Ferguson
Hi Carmen If the family is Presbyterian I have had success following the minister. The Presbyterians were closely linked to their pastor and records are pretty good for who served where. Whole congregations often moved with the pastor. This may help you narrow your search to a specific area, time and place and group of people. This has been studied by several Thesis including Glenn Lucus excellent work on Presbyterians in Carleton County , Ottawa Canada and Rankin Sherling, Presbyterian Clerical migration, Queens University Kingston Ontario.. Good speed. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-04-09 3:44 p.m., W A Carmen Ferguson via CoTyroneList wrote: Thank you Elwyn. Alexander had four children – John 1843-1927 James 1850-1901 Alexander Duff 1854-1856 Jane no idea I have no record of when they were baptized. My Grandfather (John) married Mary Jane Bell (March 3, 1891 in Moneymore Second Presbyterian Church). She was born in 1861 in Mullaghtironey, Coagh, Co. Tyrone – I don’t know the month and day and died April 9, 1945. John and Mary Jane are both buried in Coagh Presbyterian Burying ground. Interesting April 9 – that’s 74 years ago today; I actually walked behind her hearse at her funeral. Thanks again for the information provided. Carmen On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 2:37 PM elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: Carmen, Statutory birth registration only started in Ireland in 1864, so you won’t find a birth certificate for Alexander or Matilda. Prior to that year you need to rely on church baptism records, where they exist. Likewise for marriages, statutory marriage registration only started in 1845 (for non RC marriages) and 1864 for RC. Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church (after which she’d usually attend her husband’s). That they were buried in Coagh Presbyterian is a hint that it was possibly Alexander’s family church. And it might have been Matilda’s family church too. If so, the news is not great. That church has no baptism records earlier than 1839. It has marriages for 1820-1822 and then none till 1845. If that is the church where they were baptised and married then there don’t appear to be any surviving records. Did the couple have any children, and if so do you know where they were baptised? Elwyn On 09/04/2019, W A Carmen Ferguson via CoTyroneList mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: > My Great Grandfather Alexander Ferguson was born 1811 in Ballymoyle, Coagh, > Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland and died the same place on June 13, 1887. I > don’t know his month or day of birth. He married Matilda someone (I > believe Duff); she was born about 1808 but I don’t know where and died > September 19, 1882. I also don’t know when they were married. They are both > buried in Coagh Presbyterian Burying ground. > > > > Any help much appreciated > > > > Carmen Ferguson Ottawa, Canada > ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com Mailing List Archive: https://goo.gl/mQCKrY
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Canadian Convicts on the HMS Buffalo to Australia 1839-1840
Thank you so much for all your work transcribing and bringing the 100th/99th regiment to everyone's attention by transcribing these events. I have learned so much about my history from the Australian sites documenting the blight of those on the Buffalo. An excellent book on the Papeneau Rebellion and one of the few in English is The Patriot and the People the rebellion of 1837 by Allan Greer. The Papineau Rebellion had a lot of root causes but one which effects us is the influx of Scot/Irish into Quebec in and around the 1800's. I continue to search the microfilm for more information on the 100th/99th reg in the Archives of Canada but it is slow going. I do find more information and will share it and the Tyrone connection as I can organize it. Again thank you to Jim and to our Australian connections who have been so kind to share their knowledge and research. ron McCoy On 2019-03-04 6:49 a.m., Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote: Canadian Convicts on the HMS Buffalo to Australia 1839-1840<https://cotyroneireland.com/ships/buffalo1839.html> Jim McKane South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Annual Ulster Historical Foundation U.S. Lecture Tour 2019
Do you know if there is a Canadian Lecture tour and where and when it will be? Ron McCoy On 2019-03-02 6:20 p.m., Len Swindley via CoTyroneList wrote: Hello Listers ULSTER HISTORICAL FOUNDATION U.S. LECTURE 2019 The annual U.S. Family History lecture tour by Fintan Mullan and Gillian Hunt commences this week: These great events are recommended to anyone researching their Irish forebears. For full details of venues across the U.S. https://www.ancestryireland.com/ Locations: 09 March - Concord, NH<http://www.eventbrite.com/e/genealogy-workshop-the-scots-irish-in-new-england-registration-53395677910?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 10 March - Philadelphia, PA<https://www.eventbrite.com/e/ulster-historical-foundation-2019-north-american-lecture-tour-tickets-54385795378?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 11 March - Chicago, IL<https://irish-american.org/event/researching-your-irish-and-scots-irish-ancestors-with-the-ulster-historical-foundation/?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 12 March - Madison, WI<https://shop.wisconsinhistory.org/productcart/pc/Irish-Genealogy-111p3282.htm?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> SOLD OUT 13 March - Green Bay, WI<https://www.ancestryireland.com/gbwi13march/%20?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 14 March - Salt Lake City, UT<https://www.ancestryireland.com/slcmarch2019/?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 15 March - Salt Lake City, UT<https://www.ancestryireland.com/slcmarch2019/?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 16 March - Denver, CO<https://www.wise-fhs.org/event/irish-research-seminar-march-16-2019/?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 18 March - Pittsburgh, PA<https://www.heinzhistorycenter.org/events/irish-genealogy-workshop-2019?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 19 March - Louisville, KY<https://filson.simpletix.com/EventDetails/40406/Time/97227/#.XGRNGtL7RtR?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 20 March - Coeur d'Alene, ID<https://janclizerpainting.com/event/116353/ulster-historical-foundation-lecture-in-coeur-dalene?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 22 March - Valparaiso, IN<http://portercounty.evanced.info/signup/EventDetails?EventId=32349=ALL=Calendar=2019/03/01_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 23 March - Tampa, FL<https://fgstampa.org/2019-irish-seminar/?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> - SOLD OUT 24 March - Fairfield, CT<https://www.eventbrite.com/e/irish-family-history-day-learn-how-to-research-your-ancestors-in-ireland-tickets-54805898919?ref=enivtefor001=MTU3MzEwNDMvbGF3bGVyY0Bhb2wuY29tLzA%3D%0A_term=attend_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 25 March - New York City, NY<https://www.ancestryireland.com/ancestors-genealogy-25march/?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> 26 March - New York City, NY<https://www.eventbrite.com/e/distant-ireland-migrations-to-the-new-world-tickets-53754760937?utm_source=emailcampaign603_medium=phpList_content=HTMLemail_campaign=American+Lecture+Tour+-+Update> The Ulster Historical Foundation, Belfast, is Ireland’s leading family history research organisation. ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] 100 th reg of foot tyrone
Hi Jim If I can find it from the Cdn Archives again is that OK to transcribe? I know that I found these documents there originally but am having trouble finding them again? These doc. on Ancestry.com are the documents that I saw a couple of years ago from the Archives in the public domain. Would ancestry have bought the right to copy them and the archives then take them off the public access? I obviously don't know how this copyright idea works of information. It seems odd to me that my families records would be copyrighted by Ancestry. I don't begrudge giving them money for information they make easily available but not to hold the records hostage. Cheers Ron On 2019-02-25 8:02 a.m., Jim McKane via CoTyroneList wrote: Hi Ron - I'd love you to transcribe them BUT we'd be in HUGE copyright legal problem with Ancestry. Great idea BUT completely illegal. Sorry Jim Jim McKane South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 6:32 AM Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: Hi Jim Below is the complete record of the 100th reg of foot war of 1812. It took me some time to find it again and I was unable to refind in the Archives but I did find it in Ancestry.com. There is approximately 800 names of the reg. and rough count 65 who are from Tyrone. This is a complete list unlike the one in King and Canada which focus in on Goulburn Twp. My relatives are in this group along with many interesting other facts. This list is great because it lists where people came from so Wm Vaughan came from Dublin and the parish of ST. Thomas. Is this of interest? Would you want me to transcribe the Tyrone names? If so how do you want them transcribed? While our interest is Tyrone you can see that most of the regiment is made up of Ulster men hit hard by economic down turn many Weavers. https://www.ancestry.ca/interactive/3253/40940_2000729172-00277?pid=94075=https://search.ancestry.ca/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D3253%26h%3D94075%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DUVS1401%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourcetrue&_phsrc=UVS1401&_phstart=successSource=true#?imageId=40940_2000729172-00277 Cheers Ron McCoy ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
[CoTyroneMailingList] 100 th reg of foot tyrone
Hi Jim Below is the complete record of the 100th reg of foot war of 1812. It took me some time to find it again and I was unable to refind in the Archives but I did find it in Ancestry.com. There is approximately 800 names of the reg. and rough count 65 who are from Tyrone. This is a complete list unlike the one in King and Canada which focus in on Goulburn Twp. My relatives are in this group along with many interesting other facts. This list is great because it lists where people came from so Wm Vaughan came from Dublin and the parish of ST. Thomas. Is this of interest? Would you want me to transcribe the Tyrone names? If so how do you want them transcribed? While our interest is Tyrone you can see that most of the regiment is made up of Ulster men hit hard by economic down turn many Weavers. https://www.ancestry.ca/interactive/3253/40940_2000729172-00277?pid=94075=https://search.ancestry.ca/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D3253%26h%3D94075%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DUVS1401%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourcetrue&_phsrc=UVS1401&_phstart=successSource=true#?imageId=40940_2000729172-00277 Cheers Ron McCoy ___ CoTyroneList Mailing List Mailing List Email Address: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com Change Your Preferences: http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Canadian Exiles to the Australian Colonies 1839-40
Hi Len I have one word for this and it is ,"Wow", there is so much information here and the stories go so far with just a little research on line. I did not know that there was a list or an accounting of the rebels. The names and the rebellions are glossed over in Canada and little talked about. The influx of new settlers mostly Scottish or Irish into Quebec very much was seen as an invasion of sorts and did much to exasperate the existing problems. My own family from Tyrone probably unwittingly ( I hope) added to that problem. They very likely believed they were moving to a new settlement of Scotch/Irish Presbyterians in Canada and would escape the famines, prejudices and violence they faced in Tyrone. I see a number of histories for the 1840 Canadian prisoners on line from Australian source. Thank you so much for this information. I will have days of reading... Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-01-26 9:08 p.m., Len Swindley via CoTyroneList wrote: Hello Listers, Rather recently, Ron McCoy referred to Canadian Exiles transported to the Australian colonies 1839-40; the two websites contained in this posting may be interesting to researchers There is a Fact Sheet http://www.guertin.info/patriots.pdf and a List of Canadian transportees despatched to the Australian colonies via the HMS Buffalo 1839-40 comprising French Canadians from Lower Canada and American Patriots who had crossed the border http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/canadian.html The Americans disembarked at Hobart, Van Diemen’s Land (now Tasmania) and the French Canadians from Lower Canada were sent to Sydney, New South Wales Trust this is interest to CTI researchers in Canada Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
[CoTyroneMailingList] Prince Regent County of Dublin reg. 100th
Hi All This may be of interest to some. The 100th reg. of Foot was raised by Fredrick James Faulkner in 1804. While Faulkner estates were in the South many if not most of the members of the regiment came from Northern counties, Armagh, Cavan, Tyrone etc... There is approximately two dozen tyrone members of the regiment. They are listed in the Canadian Archives or from a book named "For King and Canada written by A. Barry Roberts. There is a number of excellent lists at the back of the book and the book itself is very good. Cheers Ron McCoy ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony
For those of you who are trying to write and capture the sounds and feel of the Irish you may want to know about their love of their cattle. The first book ever written was the book of the Brown Cow. The cow was the difference between life and death for many families. The Ulster Scots women usually milked the cows while the men worked in the fields or in the bush cutting staves (square timbers). When the Scotch Irish families settled Canada they already had a pattern for work but English women of better breeding had been taught that milking cattle was below them or men's work. It was the Scottish Irish women who taught the English women to milk and mind the cattle (Roughing in the bush by Catharine Partrel) and saved them and their families from starvation. In the morning before the sun had dispatched the darkness I would wake to hear my mom's voice from the cowbar calling the cows. Many families had their own call or sometimes communities shared a call but all the cattle knew the sound of their mistress voice. For a young boy the calls where a strange haunting beautiful sound in the grey/darkness between sleep and dream . I don't have enough music in me to try and set it down for you but if you google," Kulning ancient herd calling," you will hear young Swedish women who still pass the calls down through their families. It is beautiful to see the cattle coming to the calls into the yard. In the blackness of morning you first see movement in the darkness then the head of the lead mammoth appears followed by shoulders and a body lumbering towards the mistress voice then two more and then more, finally the whole heard appears, if you are lucky. These calls have come down generation after generation of women farther back then we can trace our genealogy. The sound carries for a mile or more much farther then a normal human call would carry. Hope that is of interest. Cheers Ron McCoy Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-01-14 6:55 p.m., Beverley Ballantine via CoTyroneList wrote: Many, many thanks to all for the good discussion re the accent that Ulster Scots Tyronians probably carried to U.S. I am working on a family history that began in Parish Desertcreat, Townland Gortavilly and moved to western Kentucky in 1839/1840 through 1849. I use dialect writing for the enslaved African Americans and want to do the same for the family of Henry and Mary Ballantine whose son John, the stonecutter, was the first to arrive in America. Sent from my iPad On Jan 14, 2019, at 5:46 PM, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: 1. I don’t have any contemporary descriptions of Scots-Irish accents in Tyrone in the 1800s but I do have some from Antrim which suggest that at that period, the Ulster Scots spoke with a clear Scottish accent. (Today it has modified a bit though it remains quite different from the rest of Ireland). I think Tyrone may have been pretty much the same as Antrim. I have included some other observations on Scottish influence in Ireland, for entertainment. 1. A Presbyterian Minister brought up in Aghadowey, Co Derry wrote this of his childhood in the 1820s: “Aghadowey had originally been settled by a Scotch immigration and I found that my new neighbours spoke as pure Scotch as a man might hear in any part of Ayrshire.”[1]<https://mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.src=ym=myc_src=mail_trk=ma#_ftn1> 1. Describing his youth in Ballycahan, parish of Dunboe, again not too far from Drumachose a local farmer said: “Over a space of 15 to 20 miles from east to west, and about the same from north to south, Scottish surnames, a broad Scottish dialect and an almost universally diffused Presbyterianism indicated the title of the people to call themselves “Scotch”. Episcopalians were few and a Roman Catholic as rare as a black swan.”[2]<https://mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.src=ym=myc_src=mail_trk=ma#_ftn2> 1. Here’s what another source says about Scottish influence in Ireland: “What has been the contribution of Scottish immigrants to Ireland? Like other peoples, the Ulster Scots have a somewhat self-admiring historical myth about their contribution to Irish life. There were echoes of it in the words I have quoted from J. J. Shaw but it was enunciated resonantly by the Reverend Henry Cooke, one of its most eloquent exponents, addressing the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland in 1836: “ Our Scottish forefathers were planted in the most barren portions of our lands - the most rude and lawless of the provinces - Scottish industry has drained its bogs and cultivated its barren wastes; substituted towns and cities for its hovels and clachans and given peace and good order to a land of confusion and blood.” 1. Like most such myths it contains elements of truth, as does the alternative Irish nationalist myth which portrays the Scots as greedy robbers of the best Irish land. S
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony
I love that one I got to use that some time "Making a wigwam for a goose's bridle."Thanks Gordon Ron McCoyy On 2019-01-14 8:40 p.m., Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList wrote: > Hi Ron, > > Another I heard too often when enquiring what my Belfast mum was > doing: "Making a wigwam for a goose's bridle." > > Gordon > > On 14/01/2019 10:42 pm, Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList wrote: >> >> I heard these expressions and so many more oft repeated as a child >> and a young person growing up and sadly I took them for granted but >> wished in my heart I could hear them all again. They bring back great >> memories of kind and wise people, I miss them deeply... >> >> Cheers >> >> Ron McCoy >> ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony
Hi Beverly When I worked in Scotland in 1974 I took a couple of trips to Northern Ireland. When I went there the voices and accents I heard sounded very much like the old people I grew up with from around the Ottawa Valley Canada though they where four generations removed. The longer I was there the easier it was for me to slip into the way of speaking they had. People from Northern Ireland who just met me would place my home some where around Ballymoney. Today television and people making fun of anyone who is suppose to have an Irish accent has pretty much muted the lilt and phraseology of the Northern Irish in Canada and I suspect it has dampened it as well in native Ireland. I believe the voices would have been a mingling of the old Scottish language who came with the Undertakers to Ulster. So the language would not have been the same as later 1800 Scottish, first because it was from an earlier age and it was separated by the Channel. Also it would very likely be co-mingled with Irish inhabitants who lived there as well. Together I suspect they had their own slang, phrases, stories and language short cuts used consistently by them but not the English or Scottish. The language would be a kind of Founders language. We hear that in Quebec today with people from some regions who still speak very old form of French. That would be my guess. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-01-14 2:45 p.m., Beverley Ballantine via CoTyroneList wrote: Are these sayings, and lilting voices, of native Gaelic origin? Or are they Scottish? I would like to know how a mid 19th century Tyrone Scots-Irish person sounded like when first in America. Thank you and great transcription work. Beverley Ballantine Sent from my iPad On Jan 14, 2019, at 10:11 AM, Rick Smoll via CoTyroneList mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: Love that "Paper never refuses ink …" Very applicable today with revision: "The internet never refuses a keystroke …" Rick Smoll -Original Message- From: Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> To: Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> Cc: Ron McCoy mailto:ron.mc...@outlook.com>> Sent: Mon, Jan 14, 2019 6:13 am Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Irish Bally---ony My mom and dad used folk expressions liberally, my mom being more guilty then my dad but by far the greatest offender was my neighbour who was a wealth of folk expressions. She is now gone and sadly her expressions have not been recorded but I am sure would have filled volumes. These I believe were handed down generation after generation. One of my favorites was used to deflate my budding but inflated educational ego. I would be explaining to her some great scientific break through I had just learned at school and she would look at me with kind but skeptical eyes and say, " how do you know that." and I would say I read it in a text book to which she would simply reply, " Ah well, Paper never refuses ink. Now does it?" On the same vein my father would simply say to me ," Do you know that for a fact Mr. McCoy or did some one just tell you that?" When it was said with that deep and melodic Ottawa Valley accent which was in reality a Northern Ireland lilt one could not be truly offended. I heard these expressions and so many more oft repeated as a child and a young person growing up and sadly I took them for granted but wished in my heart I could hear them all again. They bring back great memories of kind and wise people, I miss them deeply... Cheers Ron McCoy On 2019-01-13 10:33 p.m., Gordon Wilkinson via CoTyroneList wrote: Hi Listers, As a kid in Belfast, I was intrigued by so many Irish place names starting in Bally... Those who know tell me it's derived from the Gaelic 'Baile na', meaning 'place of'. My mother would recite with a smile, the popular ditty of the time: If you weren't so Ballymena with your old Ballymoney, I'd buy a Ballycastle for my own Ballyholme. My mother was one for such sayings, so much so you'd be forgiven if you thought she'd kissed the Blarney, but I doubt she was ever that far south. There must be lots of these folk expressions which have fallen into disuse and now sadly lost. Gordon -- _ Nereda & Gordon Wilkinson, Hyde Park, South Australia. Web: www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon<http://www.ozemail.com.au/~neredon> Skype id: neredon Emails: gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au<mailto:gordon.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au> nereda.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au<mailto:nereda.wilkin...@ozemail.com.au> ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s ___ Co
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] The Food of Our Tyrone Forbears
Hi Elwyn that was really nice thank you so much Ron McCoy On 2018-10-31 1:12 PM, Elwyn Soutter via CoTyroneList wrote: The stir-about pot was hung on a swiveled arm over the open fire, and the housewife just dropped anything available into it. Mainly potatoes and oats, and sometimes the odd onion. Meat was a rarity, though rabbits and so on were an occasional bonus. It all went in together. Pretty basic stuff. For those of a sentimental inclination, the stirabout pot gets a mention in the splendid cheesy old Percy French song: “The Emigrant’s letter” (sometimes known as Cutting the Corn in Creeslough) written some time about 1890, about sailing as an emigrant from Derry to Quebec. https://www.irish-folk-songs.com/emigrants-letter-lyrics-and-guitar-chords.html Guaranteed to bring a tear to the eye, Bridie Gallagher gives it her best here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8jeEEgI9mY Elwyn From: Len Swindley via CoTyroneList <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> To: "CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com"<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> <mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> Cc: Len Swindley <mailto:len_swind...@hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, 31 October 2018, 11:43 Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] The Food of Our Tyrone Forbears Hello Listers, Following on from the items extracted from the Ordnance Survey Memoirs covering the habits and food of our Tyrone forebears, some clarification will be useful as to stirabout and flummery having received several off list queries: STIRABOUT is a porridge made from oatmeal or cornmeal boiled in milk or water and stirred FLUMMERY is a soft jelly or porridge made with flour or meal Regards, Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Observations on the Inhabitants of Clogher Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 1833-5
Hi Len and all Thank you Len for sharing this with all of us. I read this and many other pieces of history. I notice the trend through out of the lack of mention of positive attributes of the common people. Empathy for another human being is completely devoid in these reports. The time period scribes never seems to mention how hard working these people are, how close knit the families be, the way communities work together or the weight of unfair and unjust economic burdens they struggle under and still survive and more they insist on thriving in the face of great adversity. I think these Ordinances are important pieces of history not as much about what they report or say on the surface to us but because they tell us a lot about the writer and the class structure he dwells in. It seems important to him to paint a portrait of the Irish working class people at a level of sub human strata (you may see pigs and fowls eating in the kitchen and everything is dirty ). The considerable hardships people are forced to live in are justified because of their moral depravity, "49th: It is believed that there is at least an improvement in the morals and cleanliness of children attending Sunday Schools". This article to me paints a picture of a people who are brave in the face of over whelming poverty, and unjust taxation without representation overseen by absentee land lords. It speaks to me of a devotion to preserve the family and traditions at all costs. As people who are forced to struggle, their hope lies in their children and their children's, children, in other words "us". They would not allow themselves to quit, be broken, or trodden under, despite the written word, legal system and their betters opinion. They refused to think of themselves as less then any mans equal. They put all their hopes in the generations to come, they sacrificed everything to bring "us" into a safer , a better place... may we not let them down, may we never forget who they were and what they sacrificed for ,"us", for ,"me". What they did was not easy and it was not pretty but they did it, a better world for us, those like us, those like them and those still to come. May we be able to say the same Thank you Len for bringing these pieces of history to us. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-10-25 10:20 PM, Gail Mooney via CoTyroneList wrote: Thanks Len - Even knowing the history of those hard times, this piece paints a pretty grim picture of the environments our people endured as they struggled to survive. I imagine depression was common in the population - reminds me to be more grateful for my lucky circumstances. From: "Len Swindley via CoTyroneList" <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> To: CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> Cc: "Len Swindley" <mailto:len_swind...@hotmail.com> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2018 7:02:19 PM Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] Observations on the Inhabitants of Clogher Parish, Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland 1833-5 Hello Listers; There has been recent interest expressed in the lives of our Tyrone forbears (thanks to Elwyn) and here is an extract from the Ordnance Survey Memoirs of the 1820s-30s that offers some observations on living conditions in Clogher parish. Having read through many of the memoirs covering the parishes of Co. Tyrone, this report could be applied similarly to all parishes. Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia EXTRACTED FROM ORDNANCE MEMOIRS OF IRELAND: PARISHES OF COUNTY TYRONE VOL. 1 (INSTITUTE OF IRISH STUDIES, QUEEN’S UNIVERSITY OF BELFAST) (1990) STATISTICAL MEMOIR BY LIEUTENANT R. STOTHERD ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS: THE HABITS OF THE PEOPLE 42nd: There is very little order, cleanliness, or neatness in general to be found either in the houses or of the more wealthy farmers or in the cottages of the poor. The turf stack often approaches within a few yards of the door and thus intersects the view and stops the currency of the air. The yard in front of the house is full of the odour of the cow house and stable, for they are often built in the very front and sometime adjoining the dwellinghouse. The lanes and approaches to the house are narrow, rough and filthy in the extreme. Within no order is visible; you may see pigs and fowls eating in the kitchen and everything is dirty and confused, the furniture a few pots and noggins, a stool or a broken chair. The potatoes at meals are thrown out in a basket and so laid on the table or on a stool, and the whole family gather round, master, mistress, children and servants in a mass, and eat out of the basket without knife, fork or any appendage at meals. A man who can give his daughter in marriage 50 or 100 pounds will live in this manner. But this is not universally the case: sometimes everything is seen comfortable, neat and clean, b
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Hello. I am trying to trace James Rielly, born in Aughnacloy around 1806, attested in Belfast 1825 and joined 72nd Regiment of Foot. He is my great great grandfather. Many th
The 72 was raised in the western Highlands by the Mackenzie's in 1778. The regiment moved to Ireland in 1801 as part of the Napoleon wars. The first battalion was sent to South Africa in 1805. In 1816 first and second battalion are sent to India. They returned from India in March of 1822. The highland distinction was removed from them in 1809 when they were renamed the 72 of foot. In 1823 they got their highland distinction back, and in June of 1828 they went to South Africa. They saw battle in Xhosa wars. They returned home in 1840. It is a very interesting my Great Great Grandfather was Wm Vaughan of the 100th Reg. of foot out of Belfast. His grand children married Reilly's, they took land grants at the end of the war of 1812 in Canada. Hope some of that may have been of some interest. cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-10-22 5:05 PM, Julia Vaughan via CoTyroneList wrote: ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] McCay & McCoy - Ron McCoy & Marion Shephard -
Hi Janet I don't know if it is a help but my gedmatch kit number is M297606 I would be very pleased if we had a connection thought that far out it would be very small. Cheers Ron McCoyy On 2018-10-18 9:30 PM, Janet Fairless via CoTyroneList wrote: > Hello All, > > I just wanted to thank Marion Shephard for the excellent question and Ron > McCoy for the interesting and informative response. > > These sorts of exchanges benefit us all. > > Marion, Ron, I have an interest in the McCays from around the Newtownstewart > area in the Parish of Ardstraw, Co.Tyrone. Is there anywhere that either of > you have your early to mid 19th Century family trees available for perusal? > > I have found a distant DNA connection between my Wilson’s and the McCay’s > from that region, and would love to be able to join the dots. > > With gratitude for your questions and answers. > > > Janet Fairless (nee Wilson) > Brisbane > Australia > (Researching my Wilson’s from townland of Cavandarragh/Whitehouse from the > early 1800’s) > ___ > CoTyroneList mailing list > CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ > (_internal_name)s ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] McCay & McCoy - Ron McCoy & Marion Shephard -
Hi Janet Don't know if this is of help but I remembered I do have a Wilson connection Ruby (McCoy)Wilson but much more modern. Wilson was a common name in our area and likely arrived on the same boat at Quebec city and made our way like the rest of us to the Ottawa Canada area. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/McCoy-4884. Ron On 2018-10-18 9:30 PM, Janet Fairless via CoTyroneList wrote: > Hello All, > > I just wanted to thank Marion Shephard for the excellent question and Ron > McCoy for the interesting and informative response. > > These sorts of exchanges benefit us all. > > Marion, Ron, I have an interest in the McCays from around the Newtownstewart > area in the Parish of Ardstraw, Co.Tyrone. Is there anywhere that either of > you have your early to mid 19th Century family trees available for perusal? > > I have found a distant DNA connection between my Wilson’s and the McCay’s > from that region, and would love to be able to join the dots. > > With gratitude for your questions and answers. > > > Janet Fairless (nee Wilson) > Brisbane > Australia > (Researching my Wilson’s from townland of Cavandarragh/Whitehouse from the > early 1800’s) > ___ > CoTyroneList mailing list > CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ > (_internal_name)s ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] McCay & McCoy - Ron McCoy & Marion Shephard -
Hi Janet Thank you for the kind words about my farming answer. The rule is never ask a farmer about something related to farming unless you are having trouble sleeping. The farthest I have gone back on my family tree is John " McCoy-4704"1766-1866, you can find John and Mary Gadys (Gaddes) on Wikitree. Evidence strongly suggest to me that they came from Pomeroy Tyrone but I have yet to be able to make a conclusive paper connection so I have not included these details in Wikitree. John and Mary could not read or write and so the name is some what fluid, being spelled phonetically by who ever the local official they need paper work done by. I suspect our family came via Ballymena area but that is just a guess based on similar names in the area and a known route that early Scottish people flowed from their home land. Hope that helps and we can finds some common ancestor. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-10-18 9:30 PM, Janet Fairless via CoTyroneList wrote: > Hello All, > > I just wanted to thank Marion Shephard for the excellent question and Ron > McCoy for the interesting and informative response. > > These sorts of exchanges benefit us all. > > Marion, Ron, I have an interest in the McCays from around the Newtownstewart > area in the Parish of Ardstraw, Co.Tyrone. Is there anywhere that either of > you have your early to mid 19th Century family trees available for perusal? > > I have found a distant DNA connection between my Wilson’s and the McCay’s > from that region, and would love to be able to join the dots. > > With gratitude for your questions and answers. > > > Janet Fairless (nee Wilson) > Brisbane > Australia > (Researching my Wilson’s from townland of Cavandarragh/Whitehouse from the > early 1800’s) > ___ > CoTyroneList mailing list > CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ > (_internal_name)s ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/ (_internal_name)s
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Gt gt grandfathers farm
Hi Marion I am guilty of being a farmer and my last name is McCoy a version of McCay. I have also walked a lot of farms in Ireland but do not claim to be an expert on any thing you have mentioned below. Having said that I can give it a go until someone who is more knowledgeable comes along and corrects my poor thoughts. You say it is 39 Cunningham acres shared by four farmers. That is hard to know how big that is because the Cunningham acre was different in different Scotch/Ulster communities. As you know the Irish acre was about 27% bigger per side for a 60% increase over a Statue acre. You are right about the potatoes and oats. These were grown in any shape plot they could find and often close to the house to provide food and sale if possible. At the height of the many potato famines Irish potatoes were still advertised on the Docks of Quebec and Montreal for sale. The first description is mountain arable and heathy pasture, shallowwhite gravely sand subsoil. The land is arable so it has been cleared and has been plowed at one time. Likely rocks picked and fences build. However by the description as being heathy pasture and shallow I take it to likely mean at one time there was lots of erosion and the fields played out quickly. Heathy land especially on the hill sides are usually covered with low growing shrubs which are the devil to take out again and are extremely invasive. With out an aerial map it is hard to tell but probably the land is on a steep slope and may be part of what is known as a ladder grazing system. The population of Ireland was about 8 million people to this day it still has not regained that number. Every inch of land was being cleared and utilized. The ladder grazing systems took old fields that were unsuited for plowing any longer and used them for seasonal grazing. Farmers usually together took the cattle to the top fields of the hills early in the spring were the top field was dry and the early grass already growing. As each field below grew and got dry enough they would move the cattle down the ladder to the bottom of the hill. This system was well established and communities worked together to mend fences, maintain fields and share pasture land. The next description is of a deep arable soil which usually means that their is a good depth of top soil. Moory land is usually wet and boggy often containing high levels of peat and high organic mater which has a number of difficulties in farming. The Irish farmers dealt with wet bogey lands by ditching and creating what was known as ,"Irish Drains,." These were the for runner of our modern tile drains. They would dig a net work of ditches and lay stones in them with flat stones on top. The water would find its way to the spaces between the stones and flow to a near by stream via the Irish drain. This took incredible craftsmanship and hand labour and many of them still work today however once you had improved the land this way the tax or rent would jump considerably. In some ways times have not changed... Hope that is of some help cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-10-18 12:22 PM, Marion via CoTyroneList wrote: Hello All, Are there any farmers out there? This is a description of the area where my Great gt Grandfather, Thomas McCay, farmed in the Townland Valuation . He shared about 39 Cunningham acres with four other farmers in the first area and had about 2 acres in the second . The land is obviously pretty poor and I wondered if anyone could suggest how this land would have been used at that time. From my reading I guess he grew some oats and potatoes and used the pasture for some kind of livestock but I would be interested in any comments from people with more knowledge than me. The Townland Valuation 1828-40 This was carried out by the Ordnance Survey and provided a very detailed description of the land in each townland. On June 20th 1833 it was the turn of Rabstown to undergo this process. The townland was divided into 5 areas, noted on an accompanying map, and each described and valued. The area in which Thomas shared land with a group of farmers and in which Archibald's farm was situated was probably area 3 and the following description is given: '3 A recd (reclaimed) mountain arable and heathy pasture, shallow, white gravely sand subsoil' The value or rate for the land in this area is given as 3s per statute acre, later increased to 3/6. This was by far the least valuable land in Rabstown, other areas being rated at between 9/6 and 14s in the initial valuation. Thomas' land in Glentown was obviously much better. It was in area 7 and surveyed on June 24th. The description is as follows: '7 A good free deep arable 1/3 deep 2/3 a moory arable of moderate depth and pa
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information
Hi Len Thank you all for your help and thoughts. The G.H. Parke I see in the Quebec Mercury 1838 Shipping Intelligence has an Office on India Wharf Quebec city and has commissioned several ships to be built in Quebec and New Brunswick. They then re-register the ships from Canada to Belfast (Archives Canada). I suspect that the Gown, Parke co. 1855 in the advertisement is possibly a later merger of two companies, Gown and G.H. Parke. As you mentioned they do handle a lot of passengers especially in steerage. I believe that at least eight families sailed that day with them leaving the Pomeroy area forever and sailing to Canada. The average family size being five to six it would take a reasonably sized Bark or ship to accommodate them all. You all have given me several leads to follow thank you for your help and any further thoughts will be greatly appreciated. Ron McCoy On 2018-10-17 8:43 AM, Len Swindley wrote: Thanks for your helpful and insightful response Elwyn. Ron, It is not possible to locate any information relevant to the company G H Parke; perhaps you are thinking of GOWAN, PARKE & CO of Belfast? This company was, amongst many things maritime, agents for shipping and emigration agents, representing Glasgow and Liverpool shipping companies, including the famed Black Ball Line out of Liverpool. The company did not operate a fleet of ships under their own name. Belfast Newsletter December 4 1855 [cid:part1.75E2389F.AB4A77A2@Outlook.com] Their advertisements were published in every edition of the Belfast Newsletter indicating great activity in the emigration trade. The Belfast Newsletter is accessible via Findmypast. Hope this assists your research, Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: CoTyroneList <mailto:cotyronelist-boun...@cotyroneireland.com> on behalf of elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 7:47:29 AM To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List Cc: elwyn soutter Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information Possibly worth bearing in mind that whilst there were direct ships from Ireland to Canada and elsewhere throughout the 1800s, there were far more from Liverpool. Liverpool acted as a clearing house for migrants from all over Europe, and had far more departures than from Ireland. Competition for the passengers was fierce with ships agents routinely throwing in cost of the short passage from Ireland to Liverpool free (together with dodgy accommodation in Liverpool), as part of the ticket price. Many more migrants in the 1800s left Ireland via Liverpool than left directly from Ireland. Significant numbers also left via Glasgow. For background, see: http://donegalancestry.com/donegal/emigration/ Elwyn On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 1:20 PM Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: Hi Lola I hope you are well and had a good summer. I have searched the Quebec Mercury for information on the shipping news as youi suggested and it was wonderful. I believe my family probably took one of G.H. Parke ships as their line made the most crossings and some such as the Dumfries Shire is listed as having 276 steerage passengers. I have tried to access the Belfast newsletter as you suggested in hopes more information is there but I can only find subscriptions to it? Could you tell me if it is a paid or free site you are using? I also wonder if you know anything about the G.H. Parke co. as there seems to be nothing on line about them? Thank you for your help. cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-08-18 11:07 AM, Iola Whiteside via CoTyroneList wrote: Hi Ron, Iola here. I just google both the Belfast Newsletter archives and the Quebec Mercury. The webpage for the Mercury is in French but the newspaper printed in English. It is east to navigate. Just click on the calendar ikon on the right side, find the year, month etc. I took a quick look and the ships arriving in 1828 are listed. I hope this helps and let me know if I can be of further assistance. Iola. From: Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:44 PM To: cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Cc: Ron McCoy<mailto:ron.mc...@outlook.com> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information Hi All Thanks for the information. The lack of shipping list is a problem and as has been noted travel between Canada and Ireland was not registered. A real problem... I have tried the steam ship lines from Quebec to Montreal with out success but they also ran Bateaux service which is how I assume they must have come. I think the suggestion of the Belfast News, The Quebec Mercury or the JJ Cooke shipping records might give me the names of ships that
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information
Hi Elwyn It is always possible that Liverpool played a part but I am working on the memory past down by my great grand father Wm McCoy who makes no mention of Liverpool. He remembered the leaving of Belfast and the terrible passage they had. Locked in a hold as a steerage passenger with terrible sickness aboard the ship. He made no mention to my grand father of any stops other then the landing at Quebec. The church records show their Pastor David Evans who I believed traveled with them leaving his post in 1838 the same year my people say they left. Rev Evans church log shows him recording births and deaths in mid August of 1838 at St. Theresa Quebec where they hoped to homestead but were forced to leave do to political unrest. Taking into account the ice burg season and they did not travel south and come up through he USA that gives a very small window they could have come. I think the most likely time of arrived would be May to mid July. 1838 was by all accounts a lower year for Irish immigrants traveling to Canada according to the Quebec Mercury. Given all of that if it is correct lowers the number of possible ships down to three or four with the Dumfrires Shire being a likely candidate as it is clearly mentioned carrying 276 steerage passengers who are sick and taken to St. Ill de Gosse May 27th. The bulk of the shipping from Belfast was by a company called G.H. Parke owner of the ship. Parke co. They had lost 300 steerage passengers a few years earlier on the ship Lady of the Lake when she struck an ice burg off Newfoundland in late April. This is the only record I can find of the company other then the comings and goings in the Shipping news and the shipping list. Genealogy is as always based on slim hopes. My hope is to find some record that might link my family immigration to a ship. All that I have related to you is bits of information related to me by my father but backed up by historical events. I think their is more to find and it is fun looking. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-10-16 4:47 PM, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote: Possibly worth bearing in mind that whilst there were direct ships from Ireland to Canada and elsewhere throughout the 1800s, there were far more from Liverpool. Liverpool acted as a clearing house for migrants from all over Europe, and had far more departures than from Ireland. Competition for the passengers was fierce with ships agents routinely throwing in cost of the short passage from Ireland to Liverpool free (together with dodgy accommodation in Liverpool), as part of the ticket price. Many more migrants in the 1800s left Ireland via Liverpool than left directly from Ireland. Significant numbers also left via Glasgow. For background, see: http://donegalancestry.com/donegal/emigration/ Elwyn On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 1:20 PM Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: Hi Lola I hope you are well and had a good summer. I have searched the Quebec Mercury for information on the shipping news as youi suggested and it was wonderful. I believe my family probably took one of G.H. Parke ships as their line made the most crossings and some such as the Dumfries Shire is listed as having 276 steerage passengers. I have tried to access the Belfast newsletter as you suggested in hopes more information is there but I can only find subscriptions to it? Could you tell me if it is a paid or free site you are using? I also wonder if you know anything about the G.H. Parke co. as there seems to be nothing on line about them? Thank you for your help. cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-08-18 11:07 AM, Iola Whiteside via CoTyroneList wrote: Hi Ron, Iola here. I just google both the Belfast Newsletter archives and the Quebec Mercury. The webpage for the Mercury is in French but the newspaper printed in English. It is east to navigate. Just click on the calendar ikon on the right side, find the year, month etc. I took a quick look and the ships arriving in 1828 are listed. I hope this helps and let me know if I can be of further assistance. Iola. From: Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:44 PM To: cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Cc: Ron McCoy<mailto:ron.mc...@outlook.com> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information Hi All Thanks for the information. The lack of shipping list is a problem and as has been noted travel between Canada and Ireland was not registered. A real problem... I have tried the steam ship lines from Quebec to Montreal with out success but they also ran Bateaux service which is how I assume they must have come. I think the suggestion of the Belfast News, The Quebec Mercury or the JJ Cooke shipping records might give me the names of ships that would have sailed out of Belfast and arrived in Quebec in the time I suspect. That would be a
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information
Hi Lola I hope you are well and had a good summer. I have searched the Quebec Mercury for information on the shipping news as youi suggested and it was wonderful. I believe my family probably took one of G.H. Parke ships as their line made the most crossings and some such as the Dumfries Shire is listed as having 276 steerage passengers. I have tried to access the Belfast newsletter as you suggested in hopes more information is there but I can only find subscriptions to it? Could you tell me if it is a paid or free site you are using? I also wonder if you know anything about the G.H. Parke co. as there seems to be nothing on line about them? Thank you for your help. cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-08-18 11:07 AM, Iola Whiteside via CoTyroneList wrote: Hi Ron, Iola here. I just google both the Belfast Newsletter archives and the Quebec Mercury. The webpage for the Mercury is in French but the newspaper printed in English. It is east to navigate. Just click on the calendar ikon on the right side, find the year, month etc. I took a quick look and the ships arriving in 1828 are listed. I hope this helps and let me know if I can be of further assistance. Iola. From: Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2018 10:44 PM To: cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Cc: Ron McCoy<mailto:ron.mc...@outlook.com> Subject: Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information Hi All Thanks for the information. The lack of shipping list is a problem and as has been noted travel between Canada and Ireland was not registered. A real problem... I have tried the steam ship lines from Quebec to Montreal with out success but they also ran Bateaux service which is how I assume they must have come. I think the suggestion of the Belfast News, The Quebec Mercury or the JJ Cooke shipping records might give me the names of ships that would have sailed out of Belfast and arrived in Quebec in the time I suspect. That would be a great help. Iola would you have the online site that these can be found on? Thank you all for your help Cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-08-17 9:33 AM, Elizabeth Vervaeke via CoTyroneList wrote: My family came from Brackagh (Errigal Keerogue) through Londonderry on the Sesosthis in 1847 . I was able to find their passenger list from the JJ Cooke Shipping records . There are many ships listed. Perhaps it’s worth a search here ... https://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/ships/qu_seth1847.shtml Kind Regards On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 9:30 AM Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> wrote: Hi all I have tried several times to find sailing records for the year 1828 from Belfast to Canada. This is the year I believe my family and their neighbours left Tyrone and immigrated. However I am told there is no passenger records in the early years of the 1800's. I was wondering if there was a list some where of just ships names that sailed even if there was not passenger lists. I am confident that they sailed after iceberg season and arrived in the Montreal area around the end of August or beginning of September of 1838. If I had a list of ships sailing out of Belfast I might be able to deduce which ship they sailed on? If anyone has experience or an idea where ships names or records that might have sailed from Belfast it would be of great interest to me? Cheers Ron McCoy ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com -- Libby Vervaeke e.verva...@gmail.com<mailto:e.verva...@gmail.com> ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
[CoTyroneMailingList] sailing information
Hi all I have tried several times to find sailing records for the year 1828 from Belfast to Canada. This is the year I believe my family and their neighbours left Tyrone and immigrated. However I am told there is no passenger records in the early years of the 1800's. I was wondering if there was a list some where of just ships names that sailed even if there was not passenger lists. I am confident that they sailed after iceberg season and arrived in the Montreal area around the end of August or beginning of September of 1838. If I had a list of ships sailing out of Belfast I might be able to deduce which ship they sailed on? If anyone has experience or an idea where ships names or records that might have sailed from Belfast it would be of great interest to me? Cheers Ron McCoy ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] Contact regarding Tyrone genealogy
Hi Lyn I am looking for information on a group of settlers who I believe followed the Minister Rev David Evans from the area around Pomeroy, mainly Cavanakeeran to Canada in 1838. My family name is McCoy and I have found McKee the alternate spelling of McCoy and believe they may be the same family. Along with that Rev Evans was married to Elizabeth McKee. I am hoping to find some confirmation of the group immigrating. I have found matching names in the tithe and Apploment records and records in Canada. Thank you for your help cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-07-11 11:48 AM, EVELYN CARDWELL wrote: Tyrone Family History Society has a Facebook page, it's a closed group, just contact them and ask to join. Do you have a specific family or townland in the Pomeroy area in mind? Lyn Cardwell Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers_wl=ym_sub1=Internal_sub2=Global_YGrowth_sub3=EmailSignature> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 at 11:47, Ron McCoy via CoTyroneList <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote: Hi All I would like to contact someone or a group from Tyrone or even if possible more specifically Pomeroy area who might be interested in sharing more about the genealogy of the families who left and immigrated to Canada. Does anyone know of a facebook or general contact of someone who would be interested in corresponding on that subject from there? Any help in finding some one or suggestions of how to contact a person or group of people would be greatly appreciate. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-07-11 6:17 AM, Tony O'Grady via CoTyroneList wrote: > Thanks very much Jim.That is great news. > > Tony O’Grady. > ……. >> On 11 Jul 2018, at 7:32 pm, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList >> mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com>> >> wrote: >> >> I have just learned that to prevent spam, many email hosts have revised >> their policies. This has resulted in many of you receiving an email as per >> below indicating your membership has been disabled. >> >> I believe the problem at our end has been solved AND your memberships have >> been reset as valid. >> >> My apologies for the inconvenience. >> >> Jim >> >> >>> Your membership in the mailing list CoTyroneList has been disabled due >>> to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated >>> 10-Jul-2018. You will not get any more messages from this list until >>> you re-enable your membership. You will receive 3 more reminders like >>> this before your membership in the list is deleted. >>> >>> To re-enable your membership, you can simply respond to this message >>> (leaving the Subject: line intact), or visit the confirmation page at >>> >> Jim McKane >> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario >> ___ >> CoTyroneList mailing list >> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> >> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > > ___ > CoTyroneList mailing list > CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
[CoTyroneMailingList] Contact regarding Tyrone genealogy
Hi All I would like to contact someone or a group from Tyrone or even if possible more specifically Pomeroy area who might be interested in sharing more about the genealogy of the families who left and immigrated to Canada. Does anyone know of a facebook or general contact of someone who would be interested in corresponding on that subject from there? Any help in finding some one or suggestions of how to contact a person or group of people would be greatly appreciate. Cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-07-11 6:17 AM, Tony O'Grady via CoTyroneList wrote: > Thanks very much Jim.That is great news. > > Tony O’Grady. > ……. >> On 11 Jul 2018, at 7:32 pm, Jim McKane via CoTyroneList >> wrote: >> >> I have just learned that to prevent spam, many email hosts have revised >> their policies. This has resulted in many of you receiving an email as per >> below indicating your membership has been disabled. >> >> I believe the problem at our end has been solved AND your memberships have >> been reset as valid. >> >> My apologies for the inconvenience. >> >> Jim >> >> >>> Your membership in the mailing list CoTyroneList has been disabled due >>> to excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated >>> 10-Jul-2018. You will not get any more messages from this list until >>> you re-enable your membership. You will receive 3 more reminders like >>> this before your membership in the list is deleted. >>> >>> To re-enable your membership, you can simply respond to this message >>> (leaving the Subject: line intact), or visit the confirmation page at >>> >> Jim McKane >> South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario >> ___ >> CoTyroneList mailing list >> CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com >> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com > > ___ > CoTyroneList mailing list > CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com > http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Dungannon Quarter Sessions, held at Dungannon, Co. Tyrone, April 1850
Hi Dorothy I also wondered about this and did the google thing. I got several answers from rescuing someone or failing to rescue some one but the one most likely correct is from Tort Law http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/R/Rescue.aspx "The predominant usage at common law<http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/C/CommonLaw.aspx> is in reference to the criminal offence of rescue: interference with lawful imprisonment by forcibly freeing the lawfully imprisoned person." The sentencing is hard to read in these cases... six months for stealing a handkerchief, ten years transported to Australia for being found in possession of someone else 9 (geese look pretty much alike) geese etc... While at the same time I have read of people killing others and getting a month in jail. It reminds me of a line from the movie the ,"Quiet Man," with John Wayne speaking to the Irish priest and they are totaling up the people who are transported to Australia for supposedly breaking the law and the priest would respond ,"Yes he was a good man to." Cheers Ron McCoy On 2018-06-30 5:30 AM, gaun...@gmail.com<mailto:gaun...@gmail.com> wrote: Thank you, Len. Can you tell me why ‘Rescue’ is a crime? What is it?? Dorothy Gaunt From: CoTyroneList <mailto:cotyronelist-boun...@cotyroneireland.com> On Behalf Of Jim McKane Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2018 7:51 AM To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List <mailto:cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> Subject: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Content - Dungannon Quarter Sessions, held at Dungannon, Co. Tyrone, April 1850 Dungannon Quarter Sessions, held at Dungannon, Co. Tyrone, April 1850<https://cotyroneireland.com/criminals/dungannonApril1850.html> Thanks again to Len Swindley for another great addition to CTI! Jim McKane South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
Re: [CoTyroneMailingList] CoTyroneIreland.com - New Function - Search ALL Tithe Applotment Books
This is really great thank you so much. Makes searching for families so much eaiser. Ron McCoy On 2018-06-12 10:49 AM, Bob Mitchell wrote: Wonderful. Thanks On 12 June 2018 at 05:46, Jim McKane mailto:j...@mckane.ca>> wrote: We have created a database of ALL records in the Tithe Applotment Books which have been transcribed on CoTyroneIreland.com. This feature allows a complete search with one command; however, please also remember there could be more info on the Parish transcription page as well. Search ALL Tithe Applotment Books transcribed on CTI with one command<https://cotyroneireland.com/search.php> Enjoy, Jim Jim McKane South Bruce Peninsula, Ontario ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com -- The best part about genealogy is searching for ancestors and finding friends. ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com<mailto:CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com> http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
[CoTyroneMailingList] Family connection at Cavanakeeran?
Hi All This site is helping me find my gg grandfathers history in county Tyrone thank you for such a great web site. I hope you might be able to help me find further evidence to solidly prove it. Scot/Irish Presbyterians often followed their pastors to settle in the new world. Rev. David Evans left Pomeroy Cavanakeeran in 1838 to travel to St. Therese Quebec Canada. Your site shows his living in Tyrone 1829 and the records in Canada show his new church 1838. I believe he brought a number of settlers with him and that is what I need help to proven. Unfortunately for them they landed in the midst of the Papineau Rebellion and in 1841 moved to Richmond Ontario. Not all moved but I believe some. Among them I believe is my gg grandfather John we now know as John McCoy. According to the Tithe and Apploment books there is a John McKee(alternate McCoy spelling) in 1829 but does not appear in the Validation books after 1838 in Cavanakeeran Tyrone. The Rev. Evans is also married to an Elizabeth McKee. She is buried in Richmond Ontario. I speculated that this John McKee is our same John McCoy and Elizabeth is probably his daughter from a previous marriage. John we know marries Mary Gaddis late in life and they have children, Margaret, James, Robert, Anne, Wm, and Mary Jane in Ireland. There is a Gaddis family only a few miles away from Pomeroy, Cavanakeern 1829. I believe John and family followed his minister and his daughter and son in law too Richmond where he settled. My problem is the lack of Tyrone records which show this to be the same family or families. Many full names are the same in Tyrone Ireland, St Therese and Richmond but how to prove this is not a coincidence with out birth, death, marriage records from Tyrone? This story also fits the time line of our community narrative which is passed down orally through the generations. Lost to the narrative is the specific names of Tyrone towns. For example the narrative refers to Cavanakeeran simply as Cavan. Hope you might be able to help me out. Thank you so much. Cheers Ron McCoy ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
[CoTyroneMailingList] John McKee
Hi All I am trying to find information on the family of John McKee, tithe and Applotment records 1826 of Cavanakeeran, Pomeroy, tyrone Ireland http://www.cotyroneireland.com/tithe/pomeroy.html. I believe John McKee is my gg grandfather who we know as John McCoy. He and his wife Mary Gaddis moved with their children, Margaret, James, Robert, Wm, Anne, and Mary Jane to Canada 1838. They followed, I believe the Rev David Evans from Pomeroy to St Therese Quebec Canada and later to Richmond Ontario Canada. Rev Evans was married to Elizabeth McKee who I think might have been John's daughter from a previous marriage. There was a group of individuals who's names appear in and around Cavanakeeran in 1826 and St Therese 1838/9 and Richmond 1842, leading me to believe a number of families followed Rev Evans. Neither John or Mary could read or write accounting for the name changes. Hope someone can help me find the conclusive evidence I am looking for? cheers Ron McCoy ___ CoTyroneList mailing list CoTyroneList@cotyroneireland.com http://mail.cotyroneireland.com/mailman/listinfo/cotyronelist_cotyroneireland.com
