Re: Cypher piggie = JY = sea sea

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Sep 23, 2016 2:14 AM, "Cecilia Tanaka"  wrote:
>
> On Sep 23, 2016 1:23 AM, "rooty"  wrote:
> >
> > You have been warned -
>
> Baby troll, baby troll...  "sea sea" is just a nick that I've received on
this list.  Hiii, it's me!!!  Ceci = sea sea!  Did you understand now?  :D

Sorry, dear all.  "Did you understand now?" makes sense in Portuguese, but
it's confuse and sounds strange in English.  Please, baby troll & all,
read: "Do you understand now?"  :P

> D'oooh!  It's evident I am/was *NOT* the Cypher Piggie.  Aff...  I don't
know about you, but I certainly have much more to do to!  ;P

Oh, sorry again!  I wrote another thing, deleted and forgot one extra
"to".  Read only "much more to do", please.

> Please, get a life and study a bit.  It will be good for you.  Bye bye
baby!  <3

Sorry again.  Please, study A LOT, not a bit.  So, you won't have free time
to annoy anyone.  Bad boring baby troll!  ;P

sea sea  (I really <3 this nick!)

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[Tom]

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 05:34:05AM -, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
> I'm not sure I agree with that assessment, but even if you could convince
> me, it's also then brought us full-circle: nukes. So we haven't really
> gained much, by that measure.

But then, try to live the life of some farmer in 730 a.d. or of a slave
in 2.500 b.c. egypt, or that of a miner in 4.000 b.c. china.

In fact, we're living in the best possible times humans have ever had.
Surely there are lots of things which could be better, don't get me
wrong. But one thing is for sure: past times, all of them, were worse
than today for most people on earth.

> And yet, you're also talking to a guy that enjoys jumping out of
> airplanes, and I can tell you that the edge of extinction is a rather
> lovely 45 seconds.

LOL :)



Tom

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[xorcist]

> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:06:17PM -, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
>> Greed is a fundamental problem of Capitalism. It is also a fundamental
>> problem of Socialism. The Soviet chiefs in the Politburo weren't
>> standing
>> in the bread lines with everyone else.
>
> On the other hand, greed is the primary driver which led us humans where
> we are today. Without it, we'd surely still be hunter-gatherer's living
> every day on the edge of extinction.
>
> So, fighting greed might not work.

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment, but even if you could convince
me, it's also then brought us full-circle: nukes. So we haven't really
gained much, by that measure.

And yet, you're also talking to a guy that enjoys jumping out of
airplanes, and I can tell you that the edge of extinction is a rather
lovely 45 seconds.

Re: Cypher piggie = JY = sea sea

[Cecilia Tanaka]

On Sep 23, 2016 1:23 AM, "rooty"  wrote:
>
> You have been warned -

Baby troll, baby troll...  "sea sea" is just a nick that I've received on
this list.  Hiii, it's me!!!  Ceci = sea sea!  Did you understand now?  :D

D'oooh!  It's evident I am/was *NOT* the Cypher Piggie.  Aff...  I don't
know about you, but I certainly have much more to do to!  ;P

Please, get a life and study a bit.  It will be good for you.  Bye bye
baby!  <3

Re: Cypher piggie = JY = sea sea

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 12:28:57AM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote:
> On 09/23/2016 12:23 AM, rooty wrote:
> > You have been warned -
> 
> Not very likely.  I give it less than 1% that either of them is the
> same as that one.  "Trust me."
> 
> On the other hand, he who smelt it may well have dealt it.

Cute phrase :)

I agree with you Steve - I have my own conspiracies, but without facts,
they're only theory..

Re: Cypher piggie = JY = sea sea

[Steve Kinney]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1



On 09/23/2016 12:23 AM, rooty wrote:
> You have been warned -

Not very likely.  I give it less than 1% that either of them is the
same as that one.  "Trust me."

On the other hand, he who smelt it may well have dealt it.

:o)

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Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJX5K+JAAoJEECU6c5XzmuqYK4IAJwBCg5F1tbND6WtNpm6bJr5
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Szu41OmRZ6kY55NLja19jx7Qpq3E2S4oc27F6ZaQoC345HN1WOJffzQA4qBvOn/v
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=dJYg
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Cypher piggie = JY = sea sea

[rooty]

You have been warned -

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[Mirimir]

On 09/22/2016 07:51 PM, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
>>
>> Right. US military have trained heavily for this scenario, however.
> 
> So? That can actually play to your advantage. With heavy training, comes
> assumptions of what to expect, and an ingrained game-plan. If you know
> what they expect, you simply do something else, and cause confusion.
> 
>>
>> Well, too weak or not, far too few of them want freedom badly enough.
> 
> Yeah, the conditions for real insurrection are rare, and tends to involve
> a great deal of suffering. As a tyrannt, if you can keep the population
> fat, and entertained, you'll be alright.

That's the US overall, for sure ;)

>> That does seem to be a favorite tactic. But even if you take down the
>> national government, it's police forces and National Guard units that
>> would become feudal overlords. So armed insurrection seems pointless.
> 
> Nah, you're looking at it in a vacuum. If the conditions are right to get
> a large enough force together to do something like that, there is enough
> social support to get a majority on board.
> 
> Read, or review, Che Guevara's work "Guerrilla Warfare" .. he makes a
> pretty compelling case for the types of conditions that need to be met in
> order to have an effective insurrection.

I'd rather read SF ;) But even from the author and title, I'm about 90%
sure that most of the US doesn't have such conditions.

>>> If this is true, its a serious indication that the United States
>>> government is greatly weakening. Considering its importance to the west,
>>> generally, its good news all around.
>>
>> Wishful thinking.
> 
> OK, so you made me go digging this up.
> https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2014/dhs-report-latest-warn-fallout-bundy-ranch-standoff
> 
> Federal agents has firearms pointed at them, and stood down. DHS
> subsequently predicted a rise in anti-government and anti-police activity
> as a result. They were right about that, it would seem.

Yeah, the anti-government militias. I doubt that they're organized well
enough to accomplish much. DHS backed down to avoid bad PR is all.

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[xorcist]

>
> Right. US military have trained heavily for this scenario, however.

So? That can actually play to your advantage. With heavy training, comes
assumptions of what to expect, and an ingrained game-plan. If you know
what they expect, you simply do something else, and cause confusion.

>
> Well, too weak or not, far too few of them want freedom badly enough.

Yeah, the conditions for real insurrection are rare, and tends to involve
a great deal of suffering. As a tyrannt, if you can keep the population
fat, and entertained, you'll be alright.

>
> That does seem to be a favorite tactic. But even if you take down the
> national government, it's police forces and National Guard units that
> would become feudal overlords. So armed insurrection seems pointless.

Nah, you're looking at it in a vacuum. If the conditions are right to get
a large enough force together to do something like that, there is enough
social support to get a majority on board.

Read, or review, Che Guevara's work "Guerrilla Warfare" .. he makes a
pretty compelling case for the types of conditions that need to be met in
order to have an effective insurrection.

>> If this is true, its a serious indication that the United States
>> government is greatly weakening. Considering its importance to the west,
>> generally, its good news all around.
>
> Wishful thinking.

OK, so you made me go digging this up.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2014/dhs-report-latest-warn-fallout-bundy-ranch-standoff

Federal agents has firearms pointed at them, and stood down. DHS
subsequently predicted a rise in anti-government and anti-police activity
as a result. They were right about that, it would seem.

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[xorcist]

> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 03:12:11AM -, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:

> They were bloody well fed anti tank and anti aircraft rpgs and the like
> by the USA - that's how they took down the USSR occupation.
>
>
>> Then took their AK47's and repelled NATO.
>
> Your simplification may be useful to inspire, but more research by the
> wanna be AK47 wielder is most definitely required!

You really might want to look into this yourself.

Western military analysts tend to see the introduction of the Stinger
missles as the "turning point" in the war.

Russian analysts see the decision much differently. Gorbachev had ordered
the scale-down, and withdrawal a full year before the Afghans fired their
first Stinger.

And of course, no one was feeding them artillery during the invasion by NATO.

But, in a way, you're right. It wasn't REALLY the rifle's that let them
win. It was the mountains.

Nevertheless, given the proper conditions and terrain it is not difficult
to mitigate tanks and aircraft. It is not difficult to arrange a situation
where an army needs to walk in, on foot.

And once you get them to that point, it's all about the rifles.

I don't know exactly what the terrain is like in some of the U.S. mountain
areas, but I'm sure there are suitable areas. But it doesn't even matter.

If you have the bodies? Grab rifles, walk into New York and D.C., and
squat them. Tanks and aircraft are useless. They aren't going to use
artillery on Manhattan or D.C. Three thousand or so "tourists" show up
over the course of 6-8 months in each city. There are abandoned subway
tunnels in NY might get overlooked. You'd need access to some hardware to
break in, but if you can manage something like this, that is trivial.
There may be something similar in DC.

The problem isn't that artillery and aircraft are too difficult to avoid,
and mitigate. Its that the people are too weak. Big difference.

And in any civil war scenario, its quite likely you'll gain anti-aircraft
missles, artillery, etc, very early. It is always likely that you'll
inspire at least a partial military coup.

> And TAKE NOTICE all WANNA BE INSURRECTIONISTS - our TLA 'friends' will
> always try to infiltrate, demonstrate and thereafter express authority,
> and finally cause your insurrection to launch waay too early, well
> before you have any chance of succeeding.

I don't know the whole story, but I read awhile back about some situation
or another in the States where militias had a stand off with the Federal
government, and the government stood down?

If this is true, its a serious indication that the United States
government is greatly weakening. Considering its importance to the west,
generally, its good news all around.

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[xorcist]

> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 08:30:55PM -0700, Razer wrote:
>
> You cannot eliminate human nature.
>
> Greed and lust for power are tendencies of human nature.
>
> But perhaps it is possible to commoditize politics, rather than have
> politics be a tool for the wealthy and powerful?
>
> (How? Good question - time to hack concepts.)
>

I agree completely, Zen.

Greed is a fundamental problem of Capitalism. It is also a fundamental
problem of Socialism. The Soviet chiefs in the Politburo weren't standing
in the bread lines with everyone else.

Any reasonable political theory must account for this, and provide some
strategy to mitigate it.

How, of course, is the question. I suspect Syndicalism would work, and if
combined with a new theory of value might work quite well. Bootstrapping
it is the problem.

Power, is a whole other animal. I'm not sure anyone has really figured
that one out.

If the society has "money" .. and if "money" is, in some sense, a
mechanism for motivating and organizing labor, then quite literally, the
wealthy have more power, right down to the sense that the term is used in
physics, that of the rate of doing work.

I suspect that there is no way to create a truly egalitarian society in
the presence of money. Those that have it, will have an advantage in
negotiating with those that don't. You've created a power dynamic as soon
as you print the stuff.

Now, on the other hand, if basic goods and services were free, if you were
assured a basic standard of living, and food to eat, perhaps in a communal
house or public studio apartments, so that one did not HAVE to work for
money, but would only want to work in order to get access to better goods,
services, bigger apartment, etc, that might be enough to take the edge of
the implied power dynamics.

But it still doesn't stop the fact that a wealthy person can afford to pay
bunches of people to help get him political power, and that political
power allows him to become wealthier; and then the deafening feedback
begins.

The solution is to create a structure that doesn't utilize money, at least
not in the way we know the concept.

Re: Sim Theory

[Mirimir]

On 09/22/2016 06:23 AM, John Newman wrote:
> 
>> On Sep 22, 2016, at 12:34 AM, Mirimir  wrote:
>> 'Quantum Thief' opens with prisoner's dilemma selection. Make numerous
>> digital copies, select for copies that cooperate, repeat.
>>
>> "As always, before the warmind and I shoot each other, I try to make
>> smalltalk."
> 
> 
> I just grabbed a torrent of the trilogy
> (waiting on the paperbacks I ordered). Phoa! 
> Cool fucking book, Im only about 50 pages
> into the Quantum Thief but the world building
> is fucking great I loved when Jean said he
> needed "root of this body!" to stop their
> escape ship getting destroyed.

Well, they're under attack by Archon-rootkit nanomissiles!

"I am root, and the body is a world-tree, an Yggdrasil. There are
diamond machines in its bones, proteonomic tech in its cells. And the
brain, a true Sobornost raion-scale brain, able to run whole worlds."

He throws many new words at readers, defined only in context. But they
all make sense, if you've read Stephenson, Stross, etc. Raions are
planet-scale computer clusters that Sobornost have created for running
their sims.

> Seems like will be great read. 
> 
> thx ;)
> 
> 
> John
> 
> 

[WAR] Russia rejects Kerry’s demand for extension of Syrian ceasefire to Al-Qaeda

[Zenaan Harkness]

The fact the subject/ article heading can actually be written (by any
side of any propaganda/ MSM/ not-so-MSM with a straight and sincere
face, is one of the saddest indictments against the Grande Ole USA,
where black is now white and Wahhabi extremists are trained, paid and
protected where possible by the USA, via its Saudi and other
intermediaries.

The USA sold its soul for black gold, and now continues to pay the
price.



** Russia rejects Kerry’s demand for extension of Syrian ceasefire to
Al-Qaeda
(http://theduran.com/russia-rejects-kerrys-demand-extension-syrian-ceasefire-al-qaeda/)

kerry-lavrov-no-ceasire

In series of statements Russian diplomats reject US demand that Syrian
and Russian bombing of Al-Qaeda's Syrian branch Jabhat Al-Nusra cease,
and that Kerry - Lavrov agreement be rewritten to soften US's obligation
to separate the fighters it supports from Jabhat Al-Nusra.

The post Russia rejects Kerry’s demand for extension of Syrian ceasefire
to Al-Qaeda
(http://theduran.com/russia-rejects-kerrys-demand-extension-syrian-ceasefire-al-qaeda/)
appeared first on The Duran (http://theduran.com) .





(In related news:


** Evidence indicates main stream media edited UN convoy blast images to
cover up Predator Drone Hellfire missile strike
(http://theduran.com/evidence-main-stream-media-edited-un-convoy-blast-images-cover-up-predator-drone-hellfire-missile-strike/)

predator-drone

Analysing the information available on the UN convoy blast signals a
Hellfire missile was used.

The post Evidence indicates main stream media edited UN convoy blast
images to cover up Predator Drone Hellfire missile strike
(http://theduran.com/evidence-main-stream-media-edited-un-convoy-blast-images-cover-up-predator-drone-hellfire-missile-strike/)
appeared first on The Duran (http://theduran.com) .




** Russian Defense Ministry reveals that US drone was directly over UN
convoy when it was attacked in Aleppo
(http://theduran.com/russian-defense-ministry-reveals-us-drone-directly-over-un-convoy-attacked-aleppo/)

lavrov-un-convoy

A US coalition drone was in the vicinity of the humanitarian convoy when
it was attacked outside Aleppo.

The post Russian Defense Ministry reveals that US drone was directly
over UN convoy when it was attacked in Aleppo
(http://theduran.com/russian-defense-ministry-reveals-us-drone-directly-over-un-convoy-attacked-aleppo/)
appeared first on The Duran (http://theduran.com) .




** John Kerry wants Syria ceasefire extended to protect Al-Qaeda
(http://theduran.com/kerry-publicly-demands-syria-ceasefire-extended-to-protect-al-qaeda/)
 Secretary
of State John Kerry speaks during a joint press conference with French
Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in
Paris, Saturday, Sept. 7, 2013.

In comments to the UN Security Council US Secretary of State Kerry
effectively tears up Lavrov - Kerry Agreement and demands that
protection from bombing be extended to Al-Qaeda's regional branch Jabhat
Al-Nusra.

The post John Kerry wants Syria ceasefire extended to protect Al-Qaeda
(http://theduran.com/kerry-publicly-demands-syria-ceasefire-extended-to-protect-al-qaeda/)
appeared first on The Duran (http://theduran.com) .




** Here’s how the US, Israel, al-Qaeda and ISIS work together in Syria
(http://theduran.com/how-the-us-israel-al-qaeda-and-isis-work-together-in-the-war-against-syria/)

70695d78e02d2611330f6a7067005ee1

Simultaneous US and Israeli airstrikes on Syrian military positions in
the eastern city of Deir-ez-Zour and in Al-Quneitra show how the US and
Israel manipulate ISIS and Al-Qaeda to wage their war of aggression
against Syria.

The post Here’s how the US, Israel, al-Qaeda and ISIS work together in
Syria
(http://theduran.com/how-the-us-israel-al-qaeda-and-isis-work-together-in-the-war-against-syria/)
appeared first on The Duran (http://theduran.com) .

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[Xer0Dynamite]

>> Show me the Law(s) that makes it so.
>
> Guns make it so. Law enforcement owns about 99.9% of all the military
> style weaponry.
>[...]
> We tried voting.
> We tried protesting.

1) The protesting you've tried hasn't utilized the strategy of law,
only appeals to emotions.
2) The government still relies on money from its citizens, if people
don't give it money it won't be able to pay its military to shoot its
own citizens, or buy the bullets in which to shoot
them.
3) There is the DSM from psychiatry in which you can CLINICALLY
diagnose America with several pathologies.  This is enough to win a
court case about giving money to the federal government.

Anyway, you apparently still haven't thought about what I linked to
you.  It gets very tiring re-explaining myself (I've been assaulted
four times already by the Establishment and abandoned those who are
perfectly content with their coffee-shop lives).

\0x


>
> This is a reasonable time to start with the armed insurrection stuff.
> Your puny AK-47 is useless. So, we need to have at least some of our
> volunteer resistance show up with Stinger missiles, some anti-aircraft
> batteries, maybe a submarine or two?
>
> Oh, you can't afford that?

Re: In solidarity with Library Genesis and Sci-Hub [was: Sim Theory]

[Cecilia Tanaka]

I think this message will make you smile.  Received it today.  :)

Muuaaah!  Kisses!  :*

Ceci

=

"Three years after Aaron Schwartz's tragic death, the fight for free access
to knowledge is far from over. Following Schwartz’s path, Alexandra
Elbakyan , a graduate
student from Kazakhstan, has been making the headlines since 2011, when she
founded Sci-Hub  (at the age of 22). In the vein of
what *ARG*  has been doing since 2000, “the
website provide mass and public access to research papers”"

Find here <
http://networkcultures.org/moneylab/2016/09/22/liberating-academic-papers-from-behind-their-paywalls/>
the MoneyLab latest blog post: "Liberating Academic Papers from Behind
their Paywalls".

--*Leila Ueberschlag | Intern MoneyLab#3* Institute of Network Cultures
Amsterdam University of Applied Sciences | HvA MoneyLab <
http://networkcultures.org/moneylab/> | 1&2 Dec 2016 | Pakhuis de Zwijger,
Amsterdam www.networkcultures.org @INCAmsterdam <
https://twitter.com/INCAmsterdam>

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[Razer]

On 09/22/2016 01:56 AM, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 08:30:55PM -0700, Razer wrote:
>> On 09/21/2016 08:15 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
>>> Since Greed is about power, a political revolution has little if
>> anything to do with ideology,
>>
>> There's an ideological difference between communism and capitalism.
>>
>> Ideally communism should mean the elimination of greed as a driving
>> force in a society. Including greed for power.
> 
> You cannot eliminate human nature.

But it's absolutely VOLUNTARILY modifiable to suit.

You believe in predestination too?

> 
> Greed and lust for power are tendencies of human nature.

To what degree? Are you entirely obsessive compulsive about it or is it
less pronounced? (Do you use your superpowers for good or evil as
measured by the rest of the tribe? And does it 'scale' from the tribe to
the rest of the larger community, and that larger community..).

There ARE societies on the Earth today that DO NOT put the individual
first. Ofc NOT "Western Industrial Societies".

A while back, maybe 5 or ten years ago, I read a story about an
anthropologist working in an African village and he went and bought some
candy for the kids...

He, like a hyper-competitive westerner might do, made them race to a
tree for it. When the winner grabbed the boo-tay the child started
handing it out to the other kids.

When the anthropologist asked why he didn't keep it all the child had a
very simple reply.

"But how could I be happy if all my friends are sad?"



I don't think you're aware of how truly fucked up beyond all recognition
(spelled out intentionally) industrial societies are.

But you WOULD BE if bombs to get the oil and other resources to make the
computer you and I use were falling on YOUR CHILD'S head.


Dimitry Orlov's blogger friend responds to "How (not) to Organize a
Community" with a post called "But what IS community".

This is Orlov's Forward:

"This is another guest post from Yevgeny, which he wrote in response to
my article How (not) to Organize a Community. He poses what, to a
Russian, seems an obvious question: “How (not) to organize a WHAT?” You
see, upon close examination the English word “community” turns out to be
all but meaningless..."

http://cluborlov.blogspot.se/2010/11/but-what-is-community.html

In the original piece he spells out in great detail how the outcasts of
a society build a stronger, more resilient one.

They're also likely to be marauders. That's the end result of
cooperative societies ejecting the non-cooperative members.

They band together like the psychopaths they are, and exact vengeance on
the ejecting community.

Mirmir and I had an interesting off-list chat about a group like that in
US counterculture. The "STP Family" and concurrent "'A' Camp", the Bane
of Rainbow Gatherings.


In the larger context there are people making BILLIONS of dollars from
the breakdown of cohesion, the social atomization, of humanity.

They are my enemy.

Rr

> 
> But perhaps it is possible to commoditize politics, rather than have
> politics be a tool for the wealthy and powerful?
> 
> (How? Good question - time to hack concepts.)
> 

group ("tribe") authority, and The State legitimacy

[Zenaan Harkness]

In the mind of the middle of the bell curve, the state has legitimacy in
the exercise of its authority, to a fair degree.

This perceived legitimacy arises from the group:
 - the perceived consent of the group/ majority
 - the input/vote by the "governed" or "controlled"


The state loses legitimacy due to
 - exercise of power beyond moral foundation
 - abuse of power by officers of the authority
 - duopoly: two parties both funded by the same oligarchs


The legitimacy of any social order/ system arises from the shared,
implied / tacit and or explicit, consent of the "governed".


Consent can be:
 - implicit/ tacit
   - the people don't protest / object
   - the people vote at elections, and the rest is taken as a "mandate"
 for the winning party

 - explicit vote on every issue
   - like Switzerland
   - direct democracy style


Possible foundations / principles / thought hooks:
 - delegated power and authority, by people, to an external authority
 - duration of delegation of any authority (duration of a parliament
   until the next election, vs duration as voted on by the people)
 - every activity is lawful except that a supermajority votes against it
 - every activity on the commons is unlawful except that a law voted by
   a supermajority allows it


- When must a majority be merely a majority (50%+),
- when must it be a supermajority (50%+ across all sub groups,
  or e.g. 60% or 75% across all voters)?


Divisions of power and authority:
 - individual
 - family, small group
 - large group, corporation, state
 - geographic vs intention/ agreement to group
 - home level, street level, suburb, city, state, nation


No authority except by consent of he who shall be imposed upon.


Any change will require a concensus - speak your hierarchy of principles
in a way Joe Sixpack can hear you.

Choose a grand goal, but carefully consider the steps between now,
and the end goal, and how to obtain agreement or mutual consent in
conversation with Joe to a ladder of principles which ultimately
achieves desired end goal.

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 12:43:41AM -0300, juan wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 17:34:23 -0700
> Razer  quoted:
> > So… if the 2nd Amendment's "right to revolution" implication is real,
> > both practically and legally, it must also include a right to possess
> > tanks, jets, rocket launchers, etc.
>   
>   Yes. And not because of some constitutional statist bullshit,
>   but as a matter of natural rights.

The only fundamental estoppel to this, is community support.

If you are able to couch your position in a way which shall appeal to
the mums and dads - the middle class (those who might actually be able
to afford and RPG, and who might be interested in a system that benefits
them more than the 0.001%, -and- you go the distance in careful,
conscientious and strategic recruitment,

then and only then might you seriously change the political landscape.


Perhaps consider not bashing the bible bashers, not emotionally berating
the emotionally beratable, and holding to some foundations which are
agreeable to the majority.


If you don't have majority agreement, at least after an hour or six of
discussion, then your platform will not be supported by the middle class
and the middle class will gladly support their sons and daughters in
handling you at the expense of their tax paid dollars and the govt.


> > Your puny AK-47 is useless. So, we need to have at least some of our
> > volunteer resistance show up with Stinger missiles, some anti-aircraft
> > batteries, maybe a submarine or two?
> > 
> > Oh, you can't afford that?
> 
> 
>   Actually, who says that you can't make D-I-Y missiles, chemical
>   weapons and the like? You of course can, and so the rest of the
>   article is bullshit.

If you shall achieve a genuine change, you shall do it with support from
a not insignificant number of other humans with you.

The lone "I did it my way" ranger will not succeed in fundamentally
changing society.

Gandhi walked a thousand miles on foot and talked with thousands of
individuals, to build support for his simple, easy to digest principle
"the British shall go".


>   Now, the people who say that you can't are people who want you
>   to be afraid of the kochs, and want you to believe that the
>   government is bad, but the koch are worse, so you should thank
>   the government from protecting you from the kochs after all.

May be so. But we ought focus on possible pathways to end goals.

I assume an end goal being intended when words of possibility are
spoken.

Which also makes it not so difficult to identify those who are
defensively attached to the system as it is today, of course.


>   And funnily enough these people who claim to be against the
>   koch are actually the kochs' best friends because the kochs
>   couldn't do what they do if the government didn't back them.

Generally, I'd also say this is true.

Re: Sim Theory

[Georgi Guninski]

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 03:15:40PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote:
> None of this can or should persuade anyone but me that something
> damned strange is going on with this "reality" thing.  But I was and
> remain so persuaded.  Now the question is, what does it mean and what
> can I do with/to/about it?  So far the only answer I get is "just be
> aware that you don't know what you think you know about how reality
> works."  And worse - maybe Phil Dick was right.
>

Apologies for the offtopic noise, but this thread remotely reminds me of
the old joke:

Two unborn twins talk just before Birth:
-- Is there life after Birth?
-- Very unlikely. Nobody ever came back.

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 11:15:53PM -0400, Steve Kinney wrote:
> Which is why we need more revolutions, beginning with establishing
> alternative ways of life that reduce or eliminate the role of today's
> rulers and the passionately held, completely false Truths they dictate
> to our own communities.  Big job?  The biggest.  If not for the
> pending collapse of the global material economy, I would call it an
> impossible job - vs. one of the most important jobs anyone could be
> working on today.

New  Hampshire

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 03:12:11AM -, xorc...@sigaint.org wrote:
> AK47's are useless?
> 
> The Afghani's repelled the Soviets with manual-action rifles from WWI
> and WWIi.

They were bloody well fed anti tank and anti aircraft rpgs and the like
by the USA - that's how they took down the USSR occupation.


> Then took their AK47's and repelled NATO.

Your simplification may be useful to inspire, but more research by the
wanna be AK47 wielder is most definitely required!


> And the Taliban is still there.
>
> So I think they'd take exception with this.
> 
> But there are good points to it. The ability for insurrection is largely
> overstated.

I agree.

> But nothing is impossible if you're willing to die.

The main problem is, that folks couch or frame the discussion from the
dominant Western mindset - the individual or small group (think WACO)
that desperately and futilely tries to hold out against the whole
system.

That lacks intelligence.

That lacks foresight.

That lacks strategic planning, and sensible targets for "those on my
side willing to wield an AK47" prior to actually launching your
insurrection.


And TAKE NOTICE all WANNA BE INSURRECTIONISTS - our TLA 'friends' will
always try to infiltrate, demonstrate and thereafter express authority,
and finally cause your insurrection to launch waay too early, well
before you have any chance of succeeding.


  THINK !!!

  Handle (banish!) from your core, those who evidently compromise
  your intentions.




And of course, to maximise recruitment (of counter insurrectionists),
speak loudly and brashly in the most public way you can, with no thought
for subtlety and strategy.

Re: "The Tree of Liberty will get its manure..." [Was Re:]

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 07:50:09PM -0700, Razer wrote:
> On 09/21/2016 06:32 PM, Steve Kinney wrote:
> 
> > The people in those Crown Colonies that became United States started
> > refusing to pay taxes and surcharges, ignoring the orders of Crown
> > authorities, and constructing their own systems of commerce and
> > governance long before that "shot heard 'round the world."  The
> > Revolutionary War was more a response to a campaign by the Crown to
> > take the Colonies back over, than a struggle to kick established
> > rulers out.  That is why the Revolutionary War had the necessary
> > organization and mass public support to succeed.
> 
> 
> There was no American Revolution. Revolutions are based on ideology.
> 
> Greed IS NOT an ideology.

Ack.

> ("...started refusing to pay taxes and surcharges, ignoring the orders
> of Crown authorities, and constructing their own systems of commerce..."
> That favored ***THEIR*** WHITE RICH MALE interests.)

So pick a set of rules / proposed mass action, that will appeal to the
target audience. Back then it was "rich" (trading/ land owning) white
males, now it's what? Perhaps middle class mom and dad dual income
family (making about the same as a single working "white male" back in
the '60s - that's the comparison in Australia anyway) ?

Pick a motivation (hip pocket/ money), map out a set of rhetoric/
propaganda that will have best chance of appealing to your target
"activists", build your core (this may be the hardest part) then it
should grow naturally, since you pitched the right audience with the
right message.

Don't bemoan "the racist elitist" past - they were successful in
opposing the English Crown's attempt to bring them back under control -
just learn from what worked already.

Fw: Activist DESTROYS 19 Red Light Cameras and Turns Himself In

[Zenaan Harkness]

Hawaii's red light and fixed "speeding" cameras had to be decomissioned
not so long after launch - this is where Australia's first batch of
traffic cameras came from, the ex-Hawaii cams :/


In America, the ability to just shoot out a traffic camera is easier in
general since carrying firearms is quite a bit more common than in
Australia.



- Forwarded message from Jim  -
Subject: Activist DESTROYS 19 Red Light Cameras and Turns Himself In

He deserves 'Hero of the People' status.

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/09/activist-destroys-19-red-light-cameras-turning.html