Re: The Culpability of the Conformist Criminal Choate.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Marc de Piolenc wrote: All of which ignores the best reason for killing convicted murderers: that one will never kill again. Which leads to a ethical paradox regarding the state's murder and it's public admission of the fact, and the need of society to protect itself from that act in the future. If I as an individual can not decide to take anothers life at my whim (ie 'convicted' by individual ethics) how than can a group of men do it? Can a group of men have a right that as individuals they do not? No. Ergo, the state has no 'right' (which is another hole in the logic) to take a life through some process called 'conviction'. In a democracy state murder has a further ethical breakdown in that it -forces- people to participate in an act they may not wish to partake of. In our particular case by forcing individual taxation we break the 1st in regards the death penalty. Now, regards 'state right', it is as bereft of logical and ethical backing as the concept of a corporation being a 'person' and having rights within a democratic framework. The positions are actually hold-overs from past despotic mono-authoritarian world views. They have no place in a democratic society. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
CNN.com - Identity scanners raise privacy concerns - Jan. 1, 2003(fwd)
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/12/31/identity.scan.ap/index.html -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Slashdot | E ~ mc^2 (equation not correct? c relative?) (fwd)
http://science.slashdot.org/science/02/12/31/2030246.shtml?tid=134 -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
CNN.com - Huge military ID theft; reward offered - Jan. 1, 2003(fwd)
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/01/01/pentagon.computerthef.ap/index.html -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Slashdot | Going Through the Garbage (what goes around, comes around)(fwd)
http://slashdot.org/articles/02/12/31/1938231.shtml?tid=158 -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
CNN.com - New year brings (hundreds of) new laws - Dec. 30, 2002(fwd)
http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/30/new.laws.ap/index.html -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Many Worlds Version of Fermi Paradox
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Sarad AV wrote: Does a paradox ever help in understanding any thing? Yes, it can demonstrate that you aren't asking the right questions within the correct context. We define a paradox on a base of rules we want to prove. No, a paradox is two things we accept that imply two contradictory answers. 2.Gödel asks for the program and the circuit design of the UTM. The program may be complicated, but it can only be finitely long. Wrong, there is -nothing- that says the program must have finite length -or- halt. We -assume- it is so (which relates to the a priori assumption of PM being complete in order to prove it is undecidable - as opposed to incomplete, which is not the same thing at all). The question is it in a formal system,since we don't have paradoexes in a formal system. Godel has demonstrated that this is untrue, that in fact you -can- have -undecidable- statements in a formal system. The flaw in our assumption is that we can reduce everything to a 'T' or a 'F'. * note that Godel uses 'consistent' where we use 'complete' * Proposition XI: If c be a given recursive, consistent class of formulae, then the propositional formula which states that c is consistent is not c-provable; in particular, the consistency of P is unprovable in P, it being assumed that P is consistent (if not, then of course, every statement is provable). ...further clarification (original italics/bold denoted by -*-)... It may be noted is also constructive, ie it permits, if a -proof- from c is produced for w, the effective derivation from c of a contradiction. The whole proof of Proposition XI can also be carried over word for word to the axiom-system of set theory M, and to that of classical mathematics A, and here too it yields the result that there is no consistency proof for M or of A which could be formalized in M or A respectively, it being assumed that M and A are consistent. It must be expressly noted that Proposition XI (and the corresponding results for M and A) represent no contradiction of the formalistic standpoint of Hilbert. For this standpoint presupposes only the existance of a consistency proof effected by finite means, and there might conceivably be finite proofs which -cannot- be stated in P (or in M and A). In other words, There are some proofs that can't be written. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: re:constant encryped stream
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Thomas Shaddack wrote: Is there a way to RELIABLY find the mail was opened? There are a variety of plastics and such that will change color and break-down; the new time-limited DVD's that become unplayable after some short period of days after opening the air tight container. You could in effect put an air tight envelope around whatever you wanted to protect, with a slice of this stuff in there as well. If it's opened then when you get it...this of course assumes that the MITM attack doesn't have access or knowledge of the trick. Would work a handfull of times and then a bypass would be reasonably trivial. You could put stamps and such on the tabs to make the job harder, but again once the resources were focused... In the case of your example of a OTP on a CD, simply use one of the time release CD's that go breakdown. Assumes of course you can get them and have the hardware to burn and seal them. If the envelope is light-tight you could put some film in there and then review it for exposure upon receipt (same questions of 'is this piece the same piece that was put in there?' though). -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: The Culpability of the Conformist Criminal Choate.
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: Choate hails from Texas,the state with the highest rate of cold blooded state murder. Have we heard the slightest peep out of this serial spammer about this? Choate condemn the state murderers or remain a cold blooded conforming creep. Check the archives, you'll find my view of capital punishment. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: QM, EPR, A/B
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Nomen Nescio wrote: Tim May wrote... I don't believe, necessarily, in certain forms of the Copenhagen Interpretation, especially anything about signals propagating instantaneously, 'instantaneously' from -whose- perspective? Yes, this has been a fashionable set of statements, very smiliar to quantum mechanics is merely a useful tool for calclating the outcome of experiments. Only so long as there are -not- relativistic effects, which -do- happen -any- time a photon is involved. ***Reality is -observer- dependent*** The major hole in -all- current QM systems is they do not take into account relativistic effects. Which are required -any time- a photon is involved. I used to chant this too, but the recent (well, over the last 10 years) experimental work in EPR has convinced me that there's really something odd going on here. Many worlds (first proposed in the 50s and recently revived) is one possible explanation for why, for instance, photons in the double slit experiment know about the slit they didn't go through. And while I am not particularly convinced that this is the explanation (there are other basic things about the QM world it doesn't explain, such as why I measure THIS outcome rather than THAT outcome), I'm personally at the point where I think some form of answer is needed, and that the above intellectual dodge is no longer valid. So at least many worlds is one possible attempt to answer why photons are able to know instantaneously about correlated photons far removed (and for me, and the late John Bell it is inescapable that they do indeed find out instantaneously). The error in this approach is not into taking account the relativity of the experiment. From the traditional approach we are testing the photon with the instrument, -but- the photon is also testing the instrument. How big is the slit -from the perspective of the photon-? In other words; how big is the cosmos to a signle photon? The answer is it has no dimension. Now since there is no time or distance scale from the perspective of the photon exactly -what- is happening instantaneously? Answer, nothing. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: The Culpability of the Conformist Criminal Choate.
On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Marc de Piolenc wrote: All of which ignores the best reason for killing convicted murderers: that one will never kill again. Which leads to a ethical paradox regarding the state's murder and it's public admission of the fact, and the need of society to protect itself from that act in the future. If I as an individual can not decide to take anothers life at my whim (ie 'convicted' by individual ethics) how than can a group of men do it? Can a group of men have a right that as individuals they do not? No. Ergo, the state has no 'right' (which is another hole in the logic) to take a life through some process called 'conviction'. In a democracy state murder has a further ethical breakdown in that it -forces- people to participate in an act they may not wish to partake of. In our particular case by forcing individual taxation we break the 1st in regards the death penalty. Now, regards 'state right', it is as bereft of logical and ethical backing as the concept of a corporation being a 'person' and having rights within a democratic framework. The positions are actually hold-overs from past despotic mono-authoritarian world views. They have no place in a democratic society. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Happy New Year!
If you are going to drink, don't drive. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: re:constant encryped stream
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Thomas Shaddack wrote: Is there a way to RELIABLY find the mail was opened? There are a variety of plastics and such that will change color and break-down; the new time-limited DVD's that become unplayable after some short period of days after opening the air tight container. You could in effect put an air tight envelope around whatever you wanted to protect, with a slice of this stuff in there as well. If it's opened then when you get it...this of course assumes that the MITM attack doesn't have access or knowledge of the trick. Would work a handfull of times and then a bypass would be reasonably trivial. You could put stamps and such on the tabs to make the job harder, but again once the resources were focused... In the case of your example of a OTP on a CD, simply use one of the time release CD's that go breakdown. Assumes of course you can get them and have the hardware to burn and seal them. If the envelope is light-tight you could put some film in there and then review it for exposure upon receipt (same questions of 'is this piece the same piece that was put in there?' though). -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Suggested Reading: Crypto in fiction
Found another example of crypto use in fiction: Collected Ghost Stories The Treasure of Abbot Thomas (1904) Montague Rhodes James (1862-1936) ISBN 1-85326-053-3 (Wordsworth Classic, '92) Apparently some consider James to be the 'finest ghost-story writer England has ever produced. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Many Worlds Version of Fermi Paradox
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Sarad AV wrote: Does a paradox ever help in understanding any thing? Yes, it can demonstrate that you aren't asking the right questions within the correct context. We define a paradox on a base of rules we want to prove. No, a paradox is two things we accept that imply two contradictory answers. 2.Gödel asks for the program and the circuit design of the UTM. The program may be complicated, but it can only be finitely long. Wrong, there is -nothing- that says the program must have finite length -or- halt. We -assume- it is so (which relates to the a priori assumption of PM being complete in order to prove it is undecidable - as opposed to incomplete, which is not the same thing at all). The question is it in a formal system,since we don't have paradoexes in a formal system. Godel has demonstrated that this is untrue, that in fact you -can- have -undecidable- statements in a formal system. The flaw in our assumption is that we can reduce everything to a 'T' or a 'F'. * note that Godel uses 'consistent' where we use 'complete' * Proposition XI: If c be a given recursive, consistent class of formulae, then the propositional formula which states that c is consistent is not c-provable; in particular, the consistency of P is unprovable in P, it being assumed that P is consistent (if not, then of course, every statement is provable). ...further clarification (original italics/bold denoted by -*-)... It may be noted is also constructive, ie it permits, if a -proof- from c is produced for w, the effective derivation from c of a contradiction. The whole proof of Proposition XI can also be carried over word for word to the axiom-system of set theory M, and to that of classical mathematics A, and here too it yields the result that there is no consistency proof for M or of A which could be formalized in M or A respectively, it being assumed that M and A are consistent. It must be expressly noted that Proposition XI (and the corresponding results for M and A) represent no contradiction of the formalistic standpoint of Hilbert. For this standpoint presupposes only the existance of a consistency proof effected by finite means, and there might conceivably be finite proofs which -cannot- be stated in P (or in M and A). In other words, There are some proofs that can't be written. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: QM, EPR, A/B
On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Nomen Nescio wrote: Tim May wrote... I don't believe, necessarily, in certain forms of the Copenhagen Interpretation, especially anything about signals propagating instantaneously, 'instantaneously' from -whose- perspective? Yes, this has been a fashionable set of statements, very smiliar to quantum mechanics is merely a useful tool for calclating the outcome of experiments. Only so long as there are -not- relativistic effects, which -do- happen -any- time a photon is involved. ***Reality is -observer- dependent*** The major hole in -all- current QM systems is they do not take into account relativistic effects. Which are required -any time- a photon is involved. I used to chant this too, but the recent (well, over the last 10 years) experimental work in EPR has convinced me that there's really something odd going on here. Many worlds (first proposed in the 50s and recently revived) is one possible explanation for why, for instance, photons in the double slit experiment know about the slit they didn't go through. And while I am not particularly convinced that this is the explanation (there are other basic things about the QM world it doesn't explain, such as why I measure THIS outcome rather than THAT outcome), I'm personally at the point where I think some form of answer is needed, and that the above intellectual dodge is no longer valid. So at least many worlds is one possible attempt to answer why photons are able to know instantaneously about correlated photons far removed (and for me, and the late John Bell it is inescapable that they do indeed find out instantaneously). The error in this approach is not into taking account the relativity of the experiment. From the traditional approach we are testing the photon with the instrument, -but- the photon is also testing the instrument. How big is the slit -from the perspective of the photon-? In other words; how big is the cosmos to a signle photon? The answer is it has no dimension. Now since there is no time or distance scale from the perspective of the photon exactly -what- is happening instantaneously? Answer, nothing. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Wisdom, courage, justice, and temperance.
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: Too much egg-nog? Try... Stoicism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Stoicism is a school of philosophy commonly associated with such philosophers as Cicero, Seneca, Marcus Aurelius, and Epictetus. Organized at Athens in the third century B.C.E. (310 BC) by Zeno of Citium and Chrysippus. The Stoics provided a unified account of the world that comprised formal logic, materialistic physics, and naturalistic ethics. Later Roman Stoics emphasized more exclusively the development of recommendations for living in harmony with a natural world over which one has no direct control. So much for Coase's Theorem... Living according to nature or reason, they held, is living in conformity with the divine order of the universe. The four cardinal virtues of the Stoic philosophy are wisdom, courage, justice, and temperance, a classification derived from the teachings of Plato. Do much for 'greed is good'. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Drivel and Gutter,Boring.,
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: Isn't it fascinating to see the neo-liberal Choate post marxist stuff here and relate to this post? Neo-liberal? What a joke. I'm not a liberal or a conservative. Do you have a point to make other than name calling? Typical CACL bullshit. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: CDR: Re: What is Anarchism?
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: Anarchism is the belief that people are basically good, (Shoate shite) Sez who? Sez you, actually.. A lot of people attracted to anarchism seem to think like Lord Acton,that power corrupts and the less your average person has over you the safer you'll be. Thank you for agreeing with me, people are basically good. Othewise what is being corrupted? If they're already bad, then what is being corrupted? Nothing, they're already corrupt. If they're already corrupt then you have to accept the fact that even if we were in the nirvana state of anarchy at least some people would not see it as their best interest, and would do something about it (which by the way is where the 'big stick' observation about anarchy comes into play - however much you might want to deny it). Anarchy is that people would get along if left to their own ends and didn't have to put up with 'governments'. The problem is that 'governments' don't exist outside of individuals anymore than forests exist without trees. You can take the tree out of the forest, you can't take the forest out of the trees. You can take people out of government, but you can't take government out of people. The way people speak of 'government' as if it were something extant outside of peoples minds and hearts is truly schizo. Typical CACL double-speak. People attracted to anarchy, irrespective of their intelligence, are emotionaly stunted. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Many Worlds Version of Fermi Paradox
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Tim May wrote: And this general line of reasoning leads to a Many Worlds Version of the Fermi Paradox: Why aren't they here? Why aren't they all where? If they were 'here' then they wouldn't be another world now would they? The reason I lean toward the shut up and calculate or for all practical purposes interpretation of quantum mechanics is embodied in the above argument. IF the MWI universe branchings are at all communicatable-with, that is, at least _some_ of those universes would have very, very large amounts of power, computer power, numbers of people, etc. And some of them, if it were possible, would have communicated with us, colonized us, visited us, etc. If they could communicate they wouldn't be different. This is a variant of the Fermi Paradox raised to a very high power. It's muddled thinking raised to a lot of wasted human effort. ps there are -two- different ways to propose the 'many worlds' model. The first being that the worlds occupy the same 'space' but differ in all other characters; in other words they are the same cosmos but with different 'decision trees'. The other is that they exist in a 'meta-space' that seperates -all- metrics; that the many cosmos' are truly each unique and share nothing (note that this model can also contain the first). -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Happy New Year!
If you are going to drink, don't drive. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Drivel and Gutter,Boring.,
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: Isn't it fascinating to see the neo-liberal Choate post marxist stuff here and relate to this post? Neo-liberal? What a joke. I'm not a liberal or a conservative. Do you have a point to make other than name calling? Typical CACL bullshit. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: CDR: Re: What is Anarchism?
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: Anarchism is the belief that people are basically good, (Shoate shite) Sez who? Sez you, actually.. A lot of people attracted to anarchism seem to think like Lord Acton,that power corrupts and the less your average person has over you the safer you'll be. Thank you for agreeing with me, people are basically good. Othewise what is being corrupted? If they're already bad, then what is being corrupted? Nothing, they're already corrupt. If they're already corrupt then you have to accept the fact that even if we were in the nirvana state of anarchy at least some people would not see it as their best interest, and would do something about it (which by the way is where the 'big stick' observation about anarchy comes into play - however much you might want to deny it). Anarchy is that people would get along if left to their own ends and didn't have to put up with 'governments'. The problem is that 'governments' don't exist outside of individuals anymore than forests exist without trees. You can take the tree out of the forest, you can't take the forest out of the trees. You can take people out of government, but you can't take government out of people. The way people speak of 'government' as if it were something extant outside of peoples minds and hearts is truly schizo. Typical CACL double-speak. People attracted to anarchy, irrespective of their intelligence, are emotionaly stunted. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Wisdom, courage, justice, and temperance.
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: Too much egg-nog? Try... Stoicism From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Stoicism is a school of philosophy commonly associated with such philosophers as Cicero, Seneca, Marcus Aurelius, and Epictetus. Organized at Athens in the third century B.C.E. (310 BC) by Zeno of Citium and Chrysippus. The Stoics provided a unified account of the world that comprised formal logic, materialistic physics, and naturalistic ethics. Later Roman Stoics emphasized more exclusively the development of recommendations for living in harmony with a natural world over which one has no direct control. So much for Coase's Theorem... Living according to nature or reason, they held, is living in conformity with the divine order of the universe. The four cardinal virtues of the Stoic philosophy are wisdom, courage, justice, and temperance, a classification derived from the teachings of Plato. Do much for 'greed is good'. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Many Worlds Version of Fermi Paradox
On Mon, 30 Dec 2002, Tim May wrote: And this general line of reasoning leads to a Many Worlds Version of the Fermi Paradox: Why aren't they here? Why aren't they all where? If they were 'here' then they wouldn't be another world now would they? The reason I lean toward the shut up and calculate or for all practical purposes interpretation of quantum mechanics is embodied in the above argument. IF the MWI universe branchings are at all communicatable-with, that is, at least _some_ of those universes would have very, very large amounts of power, computer power, numbers of people, etc. And some of them, if it were possible, would have communicated with us, colonized us, visited us, etc. If they could communicate they wouldn't be different. This is a variant of the Fermi Paradox raised to a very high power. It's muddled thinking raised to a lot of wasted human effort. ps there are -two- different ways to propose the 'many worlds' model. The first being that the worlds occupy the same 'space' but differ in all other characters; in other words they are the same cosmos but with different 'decision trees'. The other is that they exist in a 'meta-space' that seperates -all- metrics; that the many cosmos' are truly each unique and share nothing (note that this model can also contain the first). -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Hangar 18 Weekly Social - Thu., Jan. 2, 2003
Asymmetric Clustering... Distributed Name Space... Global Sign-on... Guerrilla Networking... Open Source Technology... Do these words make your heart beat faster and your breath go shallow? If so then perhaps you should become involved with Hangar 18. We are a tit-for-tat group of computer hobbyist of a wide range of skills intent on building the next computing infra-structure using Open Source technology. We don't focus on any one form of technology but instead focus on real world applications in grid or large scale distributed computing. Time:Jan. 2, 2003 Every Thursday, excluding national holidays 7:00 - 9:00 pm (or later) http://open-forge.org Location:Buffet Palace, N. Lamar @ I-35 @ Anderson. In the parking lot in front of Hobby Lobby. The location varies from week to week so be sure to check with an active Hangar 18 member (or join the mailing list!) for more information. Identification: We'll be the group with the Plan 9 OS box on the table...;) Topics: 1. Open Air Optical Network We have one unit working in loopback and should have a couple of more units built over the next week or so. 2. Thu., Feb. 20 Weekly Social - Plan 9 Demo The Feb. 20 Plan 9 demonstration at the Austin Robot Group is moving forward. We currently are configuring two machines (a cpu/auth and a 9P server) for the demonstration. We currently have a 15 point presentation that we hope to be able to preview before the end of January. 3. Current Nodes - Update We are dropping the New York node due to lack of responce/activity. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: What is Anarchism?
On Sun, 29 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: It is notoriously difficult to define Anarchism. Anarchism is the belief that people are basically good, that they are corrupted by interaction with others. And as a result the way to make the world a more idyllic place is to minimize the ways in which individuals may interact (eg abolition of government, law, etc.). It ignores that people are not good and that they are not 'corrupted' by anything other than simple existance. Note that anarchism is a form of socialism or 'control economy' style of government, it requires -all- participants to behave and interact in the same manner. It further a priori limits their choices as to what they are allowed to do. For example, they are prevented from creating a social contract to create a government. Anarchism is self-contradictory. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Drivel and Gutter,Boring.
On Sat, 28 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: EXTRACT from The Catastrophe of Postmodernism - Deleuze, Guattari Baudrillard intensified to the point of shattering. Deleuze seems to share, or at least comes very close to, the absurdist conviction of Yoshimoto Takai that consumption constitutes a new form of resistance. Not so absurd if you actually understand the point. It isn't the consumption but rather -planned-consumption- that is a form of resistance. In other words by -intentionally managing- consumption many can create a political force. In other words, a business with full shelves of product isn't listening to the market -and it's desires- whereas a business with empty shelves -is-. 'Economics' is a form of technology, 'Supply and Demand' is simply the way nature works. 'Supply and Demand' is not equivalent to 'Economics', though it is the primary -natural force- driving Economics. The distinction between a natural force and a technology is -choice- (another way of saying 'context'). All technology has political and social consequences, natural forces simply are. The street has its own uses for technology. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
The Nation: 'The Rich Have Reason to Rejoice' (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 13:59:09 -0600 Subject: The Nation: 'The Rich Have Reason to Rejoice' Subject: 'The Rich Have Reason to Rejoice' from The Nation Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:08:03 -0500 blaise thought you'd be interested in this article from The Nation. If you like this article, please consider subscribing to The Nation at special discounted rates. You can order online https://ssl.thenation.com or call our toll-free number at 1-800-333-8536. The Rich Have Reason to Rejoice by Kelly Candaele Peter Dreier In Dickens's A Christmas Carol, Ebenezer Scrooge was forced to view his own death in order to gain some self-awareness of his life as the epitome of cruelty and selfishness. This Christmas it is unlikely that George W. Bush, Scrooge on the Potomac, will be transformed by any ghostly visits. Indeed, since the November 5 election (in which the Republicans' narrow majorities in the Senate and House were mirrored by a slim majority of the popular vote), Bush and his cronies seem to believe they have a mandate to outdo themselves in rewarding the corporate class that helped bring them to power. Yes, this holiday season--even as Bush prepares the nation for war--selfishness is back in style for those at the top of the economic pyramid. Sacrifice and compassionate conservatism are out. It almost calls for resurrecting the phrase ruling class, a notion once popular in left-wing circles that claims that the primary function of the highest levels of government is to protect the interests of the very rich. According to this view, big business and the ultra rich influence government at various levels through campaign contributions, personal relationships and ideological affinity. Policy-making becomes not a mediation of competing interests but a not so subtle capturing of policy-making institutions by the rich and powerful. While the Bush Administration is doing all it can to focus our attention on the threat of Iraq and Al Qaeda to the American way of life, a close look at the current Republican domestic agenda makes you wonder whether this crude radical theory warrants a closer look. Ironically, while the GOP and much of the media apply the term class warfare any time the Democrats and their allies in the labor and environmental movements push for even the most timid reform, it is the Bush Administration that perfected the most blatant version of ruling-class politics. During its first two years in office--from its $1.35 trillion tax cut (including elimination of the inheritance tax), which primarily benefits the wealthiest 2 percent of the population, to its repeal of Clinton-era ergonomics standards, affecting more than 100 million workers, that would have forced companies to alter their work stations, redesign their facilities or change their tools and equipment if employees suffered serious work-related injuries from repetitive motions--the Bushies have acted without shame to serve the interests of their friends in corporate board rooms and the very rich. But ever since November 5, W. and his cronies have been even more blatant. Virtually every week since the election, the Administration and Republicans in Congress have made or proposed changes in our laws designed to help the rich and powerful while harming the most vulnerable people in society. It is easy to read the newspaper and be appalled by the crude class warfare being waged by the President and his Congressional allies. But the list of daily horrors can be so numbing that one can lose sight of the cumulative impact of the Bush/GOP agenda. Taken together, it adds up to the most direct assault on working people, the environment and the poor that the country has seen since the presidency of William McKinley a century ago. President Bush has packaged some tidy Christmas gifts this year for his allies and friends, but the vast majority of Americans will receive a lump of coal in their stockings from this Administration. Among them: § Cut $300 million from the $1.7 billion federal program that provides subsidies to poor families so they can heat their homes during the winter--a move that leaves 438,000 families in the cold. § Added special-interest legislation to the Homeland Security bill that protects Eli Lilly, the giant pharmaceutical firm, from lawsuits over a preservative (thimerosal) in vaccines--which could result in the dismissal of thousands of suits filed by parents who claim that mercury in thimerosal has poisoned their children, causing autism and other neurological problems. John Ashcroft's Justice Department also asked a federal claims court to seal documents relating to hundreds of claims that thimerosal had caused these problems in
Re: CDR: Peace Through Trade, Redux: Medieval Iceland and the Absenceof Government
On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote: --- begin forwarded text Status: RO Mailing-List: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: moderator for [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Mises Daily Article [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Medieval Iceland and the Absence of Government Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 07:51:48 -0600 http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1121http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1121 Medieval Iceland and the Absence of Government by Thomas Whiston [Posted December 25, 2002] Those who claim that government is the source of social order say that in its absence there would be violence, chaos, and a low standard of living. They cite civil wars in Africa, drug wars in South America, or even Gengis Khan in Mongolia. They claim that these things, which are actually examples of competing governments, are what life without government will produce. Another common objection to stateless legal enforcement systems is to ask for just one example of where it has worked. Medieval Iceland illustrates an actual and well-documented historical example of how a stateless legal order can work and it provides insights as to how we might create a more just and efficient society today. Oh god, not this myth again... First it wasn't stateless, it just wasn't centralized. The rules and regulations were presided over by a specific group of individuals. Further, to make it 'work' they legalized murder. You could kill anyone you wanted to. The only catch was you couldn't try to hide it. And if it worked so well, why would nobody else take it up (at least two seperate groups from the mainland came and looked it over) and why does it not exist today? -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
[eff-austin] Statewide Conference of Progressives January 24-25,2003 (fwd)
YMMV... -- Forwarded message -- Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 20:01:45 + Subject: [eff-austin] Statewide Conference of Progressives January 24-25, 2003 In the Progressive Spotlight [statewideconf.jpg] Protex Statewide Conference Building a Better Texas: Mobilizing Progressive Power in Our State January 24-25, 2003 Click on any of the following links for conference information: Online Registration General Conference Information Co-Sponsorship Information ProTex Needs Volunteers! If you are interested in being a part of our progressive work, please call 441-3003 and ask for Esha Clearfield or send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] We have a variety of opportunities waiting for you, including our conference! Building a Better Texas: Mobilizing Progressive Power in Our State This gathering is a one of a kind opportunity to unite with other social, environmental and economic justice advocates from all over Texas. Join us to share what you are working on, hear from activists from across the state, and strategize on how to unite in the current political climate to create the kind of progressive change Texas needs. Lets put the progress back in progressive! When: January 24-25, 2003 Where: St. Edward's University Ragsdale Center 3001 S. Congress Ave. Austin, TX 78704 (Click here for maps and driving directions.) Registration: Registration for the two-day conference is $40 per person. Lunch is included both days with a continental breakfast on the second day. The registration fee allows us to offer travel scholarships and fee waivers to grassroots groups and individuals ensuring a diverse geographic representation at the conference. Online Registration Mail/Fax Registration Co-Sponsors: * Consumers Union * Center for Public Policy Priorities * Gray Panthers * American Civil Liberties Union of Austin * Texas Alliance for Human Needs Be a co-sponsor of this event! For more information, contact Steven Smith at (512) 441-3003 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Conference Schedule: Friday January 24th, 2003 M O R N I N G The day will open with a plenary session consisting of a panel of experi-enced grassroots activists and policy advocates. Learn about some of the important issues facing Texans today. A F T E R N O O N Skill Building Sessions: During the conferences skill building workshops, participants will learn new skills while building upon existing advocacy strengths. Learn how to effectively work with the media to get your message out, maximize your lobbying efforts while staying within the tax code, and raise the funds necessary to effect real change. Whether you have been involved in pro-gressive activism for years or for weeks, the skill building workshops will provide you with the tools you need to work more effectively. See regis-tration form for a full listing of skill-building workshops. Outreach Session: While networking with fellow advocates during the outreach session, you can participate in direct action. Tables will be set up for participating organizations to display their letter writing campaigns, petition drives, direct mail campaigns and other materials. E V E N I N G PARTY! In the words of twentieth century rabble-rouser Emma Goldman: If I cant dance, I dont want to be part of your revolution. We all know this is where the real networking happens. Join us for a party with cash bar, live music and a DJ. Saturday January 25, 2003 M O R N I N G The day will open with a panel discussion of issue area advocates focus-ing on such issues as labor, environment, criminal justice, health care, tax fairness, and consumer protection.The advocates will talk about the upcoming legislative session and what it means for the progressive com-munity. A question and answer session will follow. A F T E R N O O N The afternoon will be dedicated to strategy sessions on ProTexs issue areas: criminal justice, health care, and tax fairness. This is your chance to meet with fellow advocates to plan your strategy for change in Texas. [www.protex.orgjs=Yesul=en-ussr=800x600cd=16jo=Yes] ProTex: Network for a Progressive Texas 1506 S. 1st Austin, Texas 78704 PH: 512-441-3003 FX: 512-441-4884 http://ww.ProTex.org Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 3 months FREE*.
Re: CDR: Peace Through Trade, Redux: Medieval Iceland and the Absenceof Government
On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote: --- begin forwarded text Status: RO Mailing-List: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: moderator for [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Mises Daily Article [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Medieval Iceland and the Absence of Government Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 07:51:48 -0600 http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1121http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=1121 Medieval Iceland and the Absence of Government by Thomas Whiston [Posted December 25, 2002] Those who claim that government is the source of social order say that in its absence there would be violence, chaos, and a low standard of living. They cite civil wars in Africa, drug wars in South America, or even Gengis Khan in Mongolia. They claim that these things, which are actually examples of competing governments, are what life without government will produce. Another common objection to stateless legal enforcement systems is to ask for just one example of where it has worked. Medieval Iceland illustrates an actual and well-documented historical example of how a stateless legal order can work and it provides insights as to how we might create a more just and efficient society today. Oh god, not this myth again... First it wasn't stateless, it just wasn't centralized. The rules and regulations were presided over by a specific group of individuals. Further, to make it 'work' they legalized murder. You could kill anyone you wanted to. The only catch was you couldn't try to hide it. And if it worked so well, why would nobody else take it up (at least two seperate groups from the mainland came and looked it over) and why does it not exist today? -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Quantum Probability and Decision Theory
On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, James A. Donald wrote: On the other hand, our inability to emulate a nematode, or the a portion of the retina, is grounds for concern. This does not indicate that the mystery is QM, but does suggest that there is some mystery -- some special quality either of individual neurons or very small networks of neurons that we have not yet grasped. Duh, you figure? I got news for you, there is a whole shit load about cell behavior we have not yet grasped. And we won't until we can make one. We can't model a network of neurons effectively because we can't build a single neuron yet. No mystery there at all. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Quantum Probability and Decision Theory
On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, James A. Donald wrote: On the other hand, our inability to emulate a nematode, or the a portion of the retina, is grounds for concern. This does not indicate that the mystery is QM, but does suggest that there is some mystery -- some special quality either of individual neurons or very small networks of neurons that we have not yet grasped. Duh, you figure? I got news for you, there is a whole shit load about cell behavior we have not yet grasped. And we won't until we can make one. We can't model a network of neurons effectively because we can't build a single neuron yet. No mystery there at all. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: I crypt you
On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Anonymous wrote: What are the possible technical solutions ? Plan 9. Replace the DES component, understand small-world networks, and begin to distribute to your friends. Then everything can be encrypted at all levels transparently to the user (outside of key generation). -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Season Greetings...
Best wishes and good cheer to all. Merry Christmas! -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Bruce Schneier Hullabaloo
On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Neil Johnson wrote: U, how about. 1. Big multi-national corporation buys off politicians to pass laws to protect their business model (DMCA anyone ?) 2. Gets meter maid to enforce said law. 3. See above. Ahhh, I see. Let's just get rid of the middle-man (government) and then the corps can take take of enforcement directly (pirate a song, get whacked). Much more efficient I would guess. Congratulations, you're starting to understand the 'hidden agenda' of the CACL [1] contengent. [1] Crypto-Anarcy, Anarcho-Capitalist, Libertarian -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Physics News Update 618 (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:16:47 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Physics News Update 618 PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 618 December 23, 2002 by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein, and James Riordon TUNING CARBON NANOTUBE RESONANCE FREQUENCIES can be achieved by varying a [SSZ: Text deleted] QUANTUM SIMULATIONS WITH CONTINUOUS VARIABLES. Furthering efforts to answer hard-to-test questions about the quantum world, a NIST ion-trap computer can now simulate how the unique rules of quantum mechanics can affect a microscopic particle's continuous variables, quantities such as position and momentum which can have a smooth continuum of values. Acting as a form of quantum computer, the NIST ion trap might only need a couple of seconds to simulate a quantum physics experiment that can take days to carry out. Moreover, the ion trap can simulate experiments that require rare commodities, like entangled photons, which are created relatively infrequently. Since quantum computers embrace the unusual logic of the microscopic world, they can perform powerful simulations of its often counterintuitive phenomena. First envisioned by Richard Feynman, quantum simulators are perhaps the earliest practical application of quantum computing--in fact, they have been around for several years now. However, previous versions (Update 438, http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/1999/split/pnu438-2.htm ) have only re-created quantum phenomena involving discrete variables, such as an electron's energy in an atom, which can only have certain prescribed values. The new version recreates quantum processes involving both discrete and continuous variables. To construct their simulator, NIST researchers in Colorado trap a single beryllium-9 ion with electric fields. As the ion vibrates in the trap, its position and momentum are continuous. This allows the researchers to easily simulate any other complementary pair of continuous variables-such as an electric field's amplitude and phase-which have the exact same mathematical interrelationship. To perform simulations, the researchers shine a series of carefully engineered light pulses on the ion. The pulses cause the ion to act like something it's not, such as an electron bound by an atom, or even a photon as it hits a beamsplitter. Under the influence of the pulses, the ion's quantum states evolve in a way identical to the situation the researchers want to study. For now, the researchers have performed simple, proof-of-principle demonstrations. As an example, they have investigated how a photon would behave if entangled with other photons by sending it through a beamsplitter. Shining light pulses on the ion to simulate the effects of a beamsplitter on a photon, the researchers have demonstrated that interferometry with up to three other entangled photons would be three times as precise as interferometers using single photons, in line with the recent experimental results on bi-photon interferometry (Update 613, http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/2002/split/613-1.html ). (Leibfried et al, Physical Review Letters, 9 December 2002; Dietrich Leibfried, 303-497-7880, [EMAIL PROTECTED]) PRL CHANGES ITS PUBLICATION DATES. Instead of appearing on Monday each week, the print version of Physical Review Letters will now appear on Friday. The print issue will comprise all the articles that were published online during that week. It had already been the case for more than a year that online publication marked the official publication date for each article, and so the new print-version schedule does not affect this policy. (http://prl.aps.org/edannounce/PRLv89i26.html ) *** PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE is a digest of physics news items arising from physics meetings, physics journals, newspapers and magazines, and other news sources. It is provided free of charge as a way of broadly disseminating information about physics and physicists. For that reason, you are free to post it, if you like, where others can read it, providing only that you credit AIP. Physics News Update appears approximately once a week. AUTO-SUBSCRIPTION OR DELETION: By using the expression subscribe physnews in your e-mail message, you will have automatically added the address from which your message was sent to the distribution list for Physics News Update. If you use the signoff physnews expression in your e-mail message, the address in your message header will be deleted from the distribution list. Please send your message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leave the Subject: line blank.)
Re: Bruce Schneier Hullabaloo
On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Neil Johnson wrote: U, how about. 1. Big multi-national corporation buys off politicians to pass laws to protect their business model (DMCA anyone ?) 2. Gets meter maid to enforce said law. 3. See above. Ahhh, I see. Let's just get rid of the middle-man (government) and then the corps can take take of enforcement directly (pirate a song, get whacked). Much more efficient I would guess. Congratulations, you're starting to understand the 'hidden agenda' of the CACL [1] contengent. [1] Crypto-Anarcy, Anarcho-Capitalist, Libertarian -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
RE: CRYPTO-GRAM, December 15, 2002
On Mon, 23 Dec 2002, Trei, Peter wrote: Non-voters are NOT viewed by those in power as protesting against the system. They are viewed as: a: People who are happy as fat with the way things are going. and b: People whose viewpoints can be totally ignored. So Jim, I think you have it exactly backwards. Pehaps, then again maybe the politoco's are going to discover that it is -they- who have it backward. Render unto Caesar's, what is Caesar's. The make Caesar irrelevant. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Joe Strummer RIP.
On Tue, 24 Dec 2002, Matthew X wrote: Strange but Rock The Casbah was a premonition of things to come at a future date in time and space? And it was filmed right here in Austin. The F4's are landing at Bergstom back when it was a AFB. I'll leave the other locations as a test for the class ;) I guess we got the answer as to whether he should stay or should he go... The Future Is Unwritten RIP -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: CDR: Re: Suspending the Constitution
On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Mike Rosing wrote: On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Adam Shostack wrote: The Volkh conspiracy blog had this Learned Hand quote recently: I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it. While it lies there it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it. The entirety is at http://www.criminaljustice.org/public.nsf/\ENews/2002e67?opendocument. Yup, all the ink and all the paper doesn't mean squat. Who points the guns where is what matters. And how does that get decided? By ink and paper. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Suspending the Constitution
On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Petro wrote: On Sat, Dec 14, 2002 at 03:18:09PM -0800, Mike Rosing wrote: On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Tim May wrote: Lincoln's notion that the Constitution is suspendable during a war, or other emergency conditions, was disgraceful. Nothing in the Constitution says that it is suspended when a President declares it to be suspended. Power is what power does. He got away with it, that's all that counts. Then the consitution is meaningless babble. Wnat meaningless babble? Look at the last half of Lincolns first address as president. Lincoln wasn't after saving the union, he was after saving a power base. Freedom, like security, is a process, Freedom -is- Security. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Filter: Berkman Center study of the Great Firewall (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:20:02 -0600 Subject: Filter: Berkman Center study of the Great Firewall source name=The Filter vol=5.5/ Since March of this year, Berkman Center Faculty Co-Director Jonathan Zittrain and Berkman Affiliate Benjamin Edelman have been conducting an ongoing collaborative study to document the methods, scope, and depth of selective barriers to Internet access through Chinese networks. Earlier this month they released a report that provides empirical analysis of their results so far. The report documents more than 19,000 specific sites blocked; it also charts the proportion of sites blocked in China among those that result from Google searches for such hot-button terms as Tibet and democracy. We found blocking of almost every kind of content, Edelman told Wired. If it exists, China blocks at least some of it. Follow the links below for the study itself, selected press coverage, and two related articles that explore Google's role in determining what those who use the popular search engine see: Empirical Analysis of Internet Filtering in China http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/china/ China Has World's Tightest Internet Censorship, Study Finds http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/04/international/asia/04CHIN.html An Inside Look at China Filters http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,56699,00.html Fences Go Up As Net Outgrows Its Innocence http://online.securityfocus.com/news/1803 The World According to Google http://www.msnbc.com/news/844175.asp?0cv=KB10 Google vs. Evil http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.01/google_pr.html
Slashdot | U.S. Proposes Centralized Internet Surveillance (fwd)
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/12/20/1252225.shtml?tid=158 -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Cameras to monitor protesters -- The Washington Times (fwd)
http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20021220-26599592.htm -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: Suspending the Constitution
On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Petro wrote: On Sat, Dec 14, 2002 at 03:18:09PM -0800, Mike Rosing wrote: On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Tim May wrote: Lincoln's notion that the Constitution is suspendable during a war, or other emergency conditions, was disgraceful. Nothing in the Constitution says that it is suspended when a President declares it to be suspended. Power is what power does. He got away with it, that's all that counts. Then the consitution is meaningless babble. Wnat meaningless babble? Look at the last half of Lincolns first address as president. Lincoln wasn't after saving the union, he was after saving a power base. Freedom, like security, is a process, Freedom -is- Security. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Re: CDR: Re: Suspending the Constitution
On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Mike Rosing wrote: On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, Adam Shostack wrote: The Volkh conspiracy blog had this Learned Hand quote recently: I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it. While it lies there it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it. The entirety is at http://www.criminaljustice.org/public.nsf/\ENews/2002e67?opendocument. Yup, all the ink and all the paper doesn't mean squat. Who points the guns where is what matters. And how does that get decided? By ink and paper. -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Slashdot | New Software Secures Data when Owners Walk Away (fwd)
http://slashdot.org/articles/02/12/18/2241201.shtml?tid=172 -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Internet Week Web Services Web Services Giants Propose SpecificationsFor Security, Policy December 18, 2002 (fwd)
http://www.internetwk.com/story/INW20021218S0005 -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
Slashdot | Web Enabled Spacecraft (fwd)
http://slashdot.org/articles/02/12/19/1251212.shtml?tid=160 -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
PCWorld.com - Virginia Court Kills Web Libel Charge (fwd)
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,108097,00.asp -- We are all interested in the future for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. Criswell, Plan 9 from Outer Space [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com www.open-forge.org
[texas-hpr] My first run-in with the Safe Explosives Act (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:21:17 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rocketry - Austin [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rocketry - North Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rocketry - Waco [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rocketry-Texas-Hpr [EMAIL PROTECTED], TRA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [texas-hpr] My first run-in with the Safe Explosives Act I went to the local gun store today to get a can of 4F. I thought I would pass along the experience. The person that waited on me happened to be one of the owners. She asked me what I was going to use it for. I told her model rocket ejection charges, and I asked her why she wanted to know. She said that they had been advised to ask, but I gave an acceptable answer, so I could buy. I told her that the model rocket community was under the impression that the law was not going into effect until March, but that some paperwork changes were happening in January. She said they had been advised that all changes were effective immediately. I then told her that I thought gunpowder was what was getting regulated more, not black powder. Another salesman came up and told me that it was actually the opposite. They could leave gunpowder out on the shelf, but black powder had to be stored in a magazine. I asked the owner where they got their magazine. She said she had no idea where they got it because they had had it for so long. The salesman said it was just a big welded steel box with locks on it. She said (with much irony) that I looked dangerous. I told her (also with much irony) that everyone knew Osama was hiding out in a model rocket club somewhere. This exchanged brought another unhappy thought to mind. Even if we win the lawsuit over APCP, the BATF will still happily jump on us for igniters and ejection charges. A different solution will have to be found for those. They are so much smaller in volume that maybe someone in each club can have a LEUP and keep a magazine just for everyone's igniters and ejection charges. Jim Parker Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [CHOATE FIX] No quantum postcards (Re: Libel lunacy -all laws apply fnord everywhere)
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Major Variola (ret) wrote: Seems I have to explain why IP packet routing is not broadcasting some more. Those of you who understand that postcards have one trajectory from you to me can skip this. My first post was a first-order Choate fix. This post is a second-order fix. I refuse to respond to the next gripe, where JC brings up quantum postcards that take all paths at the same time, until you open your mailbox. Yada yada yada...same old CACL bullshit. At 07:12 AM 12/17/02 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Major Variola (ret) wrote: The network? Sorry, its one wire from here to there. No it isn't, try a traceroute to a regular site that isn't over your internal network over several days, why does it change? In a *virtual* connection, the *physical* paths may change transparently. Transparently says you, change the rules in the middle of the game and hope nobody notices. Thank you for making my point. One must have a physical connection prior to a virtual connection. That physical network connection is equivalent for this comparison to the physical connection between radio transmitter and receiver, which is also shortest path (usually). That phsical connection will change based on many variables. It is true that more intelligent routers will cache various pieces of data, and provided the cache doesn't go stale your route 'from here to there' will stay the same. The reason that the intelligence was put into the routers was because the packets were bopping around the network until their TTL went to zero (each individual packet gets it's TTL decremented each time it hits a router, until it hits zero when it's dropped, each router either sends it to a known host on its local net or it's default route - where the process starts all over again on that adjacent physical localnet). The comparison to radio and multi-path distortion is also valid with reference to receipt of multiple copies of a packet (and how prey tell does that happen? Does the single router send out the same packet twice? Nope, Different routers send them out and they get to the recipient who takes them based on first come, first served -by different intermediate paths-). Bottom line, if there are n hosts on a network link and a packet is injected each host gets a shot at it. If the host has sufficient info it can make intelligent decisions, otherwise it drops back to the TTL so the network doesn't get completely clogged by stale packets floating around in limbo for perpetuity. Each IP packet has one path though the sequence of packets may take different routes. Gibberish. Perhaps the mailing-postcards analogy is better than the telco one, since Ma Bell doesn't diddle the route after call setup AFAIK. But your postcards, once injected into the Postal Network, may take different routes. Not that you or your recipient knows. No they won't. If you drop your postcard in a specific drop point then it will be picked up and delivered to a specific central routing point. There it will be collected with others of a similar destination. Then it will be sent to the appropriate distribution center for that region. From there it will be sent via truck or air to another distribution center, where the reverse process takes place. About the only variance is the plane/truck that is travelling the route between regional distribution centers probably isn't the same one that took yesterdays mail, but it could be. The USPS doesn't want your mail being sent all over hell and half of Georgia, that costs us all way too much money. Nobody (but perhaps you by inference) is claiming it is identical, however, it -is- a broadcast (just consider how a packet gets routed, consider the TTL for example or how a ping works). Each packet you send out goes to many places -besides- the shortest route to the target host (which is how the shortest route is found). Modulo CALEA and multi-/broadcast packets, each postcard is handed off to exactly one other device, or dropped. Actually it's not. Take for example when my ISP send my packet (say this email for example) out on their T3 or SONET link, there will be MANY other hosts who will look at it and their inbound routers will try to route it, unless they happen to know that destination IP is not in their domain. Once the packet gets on a backbone -many- potential routes see it and decide to pass it on to their default routes or drop it based on the routing table and protocols (which are not spec'ed by TCP/IP). This sort of broadcast is also why Ethernet itself uses the collision detection and resend the way it does. It's also why Ethernet gets bogged to near uselessness when the actual network bandwidth load approaches 50%. This is analogous to tuning your radio to a specific frequency (ie IP = frequency; protocol = modulation technique). The other issues that you raise are -really- strawmen
[texas-hpr] My first run-in with the Safe Explosives Act (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:21:17 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Parker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Rocketry - Austin [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rocketry - North Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rocketry - Waco [EMAIL PROTECTED], Rocketry-Texas-Hpr [EMAIL PROTECTED], TRA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [texas-hpr] My first run-in with the Safe Explosives Act I went to the local gun store today to get a can of 4F. I thought I would pass along the experience. The person that waited on me happened to be one of the owners. She asked me what I was going to use it for. I told her model rocket ejection charges, and I asked her why she wanted to know. She said that they had been advised to ask, but I gave an acceptable answer, so I could buy. I told her that the model rocket community was under the impression that the law was not going into effect until March, but that some paperwork changes were happening in January. She said they had been advised that all changes were effective immediately. I then told her that I thought gunpowder was what was getting regulated more, not black powder. Another salesman came up and told me that it was actually the opposite. They could leave gunpowder out on the shelf, but black powder had to be stored in a magazine. I asked the owner where they got their magazine. She said she had no idea where they got it because they had had it for so long. The salesman said it was just a big welded steel box with locks on it. She said (with much irony) that I looked dangerous. I told her (also with much irony) that everyone knew Osama was hiding out in a model rocket club somewhere. This exchanged brought another unhappy thought to mind. Even if we win the lawsuit over APCP, the BATF will still happily jump on us for igniters and ejection charges. A different solution will have to be found for those. They are so much smaller in volume that maybe someone in each club can have a LEUP and keep a magazine just for everyone's igniters and ejection charges. Jim Parker Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [CHOATE FIX] No quantum postcards (Re: Libel lunacy -all laws apply fnord everywhere)
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Major Variola (ret) wrote: Seems I have to explain why IP packet routing is not broadcasting some more. Those of you who understand that postcards have one trajectory from you to me can skip this. My first post was a first-order Choate fix. This post is a second-order fix. I refuse to respond to the next gripe, where JC brings up quantum postcards that take all paths at the same time, until you open your mailbox. Yada yada yada...same old CACL bullshit. At 07:12 AM 12/17/02 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Major Variola (ret) wrote: The network? Sorry, its one wire from here to there. No it isn't, try a traceroute to a regular site that isn't over your internal network over several days, why does it change? In a *virtual* connection, the *physical* paths may change transparently. Transparently says you, change the rules in the middle of the game and hope nobody notices. Thank you for making my point. One must have a physical connection prior to a virtual connection. That physical network connection is equivalent for this comparison to the physical connection between radio transmitter and receiver, which is also shortest path (usually). That phsical connection will change based on many variables. It is true that more intelligent routers will cache various pieces of data, and provided the cache doesn't go stale your route 'from here to there' will stay the same. The reason that the intelligence was put into the routers was because the packets were bopping around the network until their TTL went to zero (each individual packet gets it's TTL decremented each time it hits a router, until it hits zero when it's dropped, each router either sends it to a known host on its local net or it's default route - where the process starts all over again on that adjacent physical localnet). The comparison to radio and multi-path distortion is also valid with reference to receipt of multiple copies of a packet (and how prey tell does that happen? Does the single router send out the same packet twice? Nope, Different routers send them out and they get to the recipient who takes them based on first come, first served -by different intermediate paths-). Bottom line, if there are n hosts on a network link and a packet is injected each host gets a shot at it. If the host has sufficient info it can make intelligent decisions, otherwise it drops back to the TTL so the network doesn't get completely clogged by stale packets floating around in limbo for perpetuity. Each IP packet has one path though the sequence of packets may take different routes. Gibberish. Perhaps the mailing-postcards analogy is better than the telco one, since Ma Bell doesn't diddle the route after call setup AFAIK. But your postcards, once injected into the Postal Network, may take different routes. Not that you or your recipient knows. No they won't. If you drop your postcard in a specific drop point then it will be picked up and delivered to a specific central routing point. There it will be collected with others of a similar destination. Then it will be sent to the appropriate distribution center for that region. From there it will be sent via truck or air to another distribution center, where the reverse process takes place. About the only variance is the plane/truck that is travelling the route between regional distribution centers probably isn't the same one that took yesterdays mail, but it could be. The USPS doesn't want your mail being sent all over hell and half of Georgia, that costs us all way too much money. Nobody (but perhaps you by inference) is claiming it is identical, however, it -is- a broadcast (just consider how a packet gets routed, consider the TTL for example or how a ping works). Each packet you send out goes to many places -besides- the shortest route to the target host (which is how the shortest route is found). Modulo CALEA and multi-/broadcast packets, each postcard is handed off to exactly one other device, or dropped. Actually it's not. Take for example when my ISP send my packet (say this email for example) out on their T3 or SONET link, there will be MANY other hosts who will look at it and their inbound routers will try to route it, unless they happen to know that destination IP is not in their domain. Once the packet gets on a backbone -many- potential routes see it and decide to pass it on to their default routes or drop it based on the routing table and protocols (which are not spec'ed by TCP/IP). This sort of broadcast is also why Ethernet itself uses the collision detection and resend the way it does. It's also why Ethernet gets bogged to near uselessness when the actual network bandwidth load approaches 50%. This is analogous to tuning your radio to a specific frequency (ie IP = frequency; protocol = modulation technique). The other issues that you raise are -really- strawmen
Re: CDR: Re: Libel lunacy -all laws apply fnord everywhere
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Miles Fidelman wrote: On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Jim Choate wrote: On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Steve Schear wrote: From the article: The court dismissed suggestions the Internet was different from other broadcasters, who could decide how far their signal was to be transmitted. This is totally bogus thinking. The Internet is not broadcast medium. Yes, it is. Every site that emits a packet broadcasts it onto the network. One can even make a comparison between 'frequency modulation' with 'IP service'. Information from Web sites must be requested, the equivalent of ordering a book or newspaper, At the IP level, sending an IP packet to a specific address is no more a broadcast than sending a piece of mail through the postal service. Nobody (but perhaps you by inference) is claiming it is identical, however, it -is- a broadcast (just consider how a packet gets routed, consider the TTL for example or how a ping works). Each packet you send out goes to many places -besides- the shortest route to the target host (which is how the shortest route is found). The comparison is close enough to have validity. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: CDR: Re: [IP] Dan Gillmor: Accessing a whole new world viamultimedia phones (fwd)
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Jim Choate wrote: On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Steve Furlong wrote: Jim Choate, in a display of bad judgement and ill temper never before seen on the internet, spewed forth the following blood-libel: I have fulfilled a lifelong goal, I have walked where no man has ever walked before. I can now die happy ;) Oh yeah, I forgot to ask... Can I put this on my resume? -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: [IP] Dan Gillmor: Accessing a whole new world via multimedia phones (fwd)
On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Steve Furlong wrote: Jim Choate, in a display of bad judgement and ill temper never before seen on the internet, spewed forth the following blood-libel: I have fulfilled a lifelong goal, I have walked where no man has ever walked before. I can now die happy ;) I'm not sure I agree with Odlyzko's point about connectivity vs content. But your prior statement, Bullshit, if there isn't content why do they want connectivity? What is it they are connecting to?, misses the distinction between the two. There is -no- distinction between the two, they are opposite sides of the -same- coin. To talk of one without the other is simply asinine and ignorant. Typical western deconstructionist thinking, muddled. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: [IP] Dan Gillmor: Accessing a whole new world via multimedia phones (fwd)
On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Steve Furlong wrote: Jim Choate, in a display of bad judgement and ill temper never before seen on the internet, spewed forth the following blood-libel: I have fulfilled a lifelong goal, I have walked where no man has ever walked before. I can now die happy ;) I'm not sure I agree with Odlyzko's point about connectivity vs content. But your prior statement, Bullshit, if there isn't content why do they want connectivity? What is it they are connecting to?, misses the distinction between the two. There is -no- distinction between the two, they are opposite sides of the -same- coin. To talk of one without the other is simply asinine and ignorant. Typical western deconstructionist thinking, muddled. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: CDR: Re: Libel lunacy -all laws apply fnord everywhere
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Miles Fidelman wrote: On Sun, 15 Dec 2002, Jim Choate wrote: On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Steve Schear wrote: From the article: The court dismissed suggestions the Internet was different from other broadcasters, who could decide how far their signal was to be transmitted. This is totally bogus thinking. The Internet is not broadcast medium. Yes, it is. Every site that emits a packet broadcasts it onto the network. One can even make a comparison between 'frequency modulation' with 'IP service'. Information from Web sites must be requested, the equivalent of ordering a book or newspaper, At the IP level, sending an IP packet to a specific address is no more a broadcast than sending a piece of mail through the postal service. Nobody (but perhaps you by inference) is claiming it is identical, however, it -is- a broadcast (just consider how a packet gets routed, consider the TTL for example or how a ping works). Each packet you send out goes to many places -besides- the shortest route to the target host (which is how the shortest route is found). The comparison is close enough to have validity. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: CDR: Re: [IP] Dan Gillmor: Accessing a whole new world viamultimedia phones (fwd)
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Jim Choate wrote: On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Steve Furlong wrote: Jim Choate, in a display of bad judgement and ill temper never before seen on the internet, spewed forth the following blood-libel: I have fulfilled a lifelong goal, I have walked where no man has ever walked before. I can now die happy ;) Oh yeah, I forgot to ask... Can I put this on my resume? -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Libel lunacy -all laws apply fnord everywhere
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Steve Schear wrote: From the article: The court dismissed suggestions the Internet was different from other broadcasters, who could decide how far their signal was to be transmitted. This is totally bogus thinking. The Internet is not broadcast medium. Yes, it is. Every site that emits a packet broadcasts it onto the network. One can even make a comparison between 'frequency modulation' with 'IP service'. Information from Web sites must be requested, the equivalent of ordering a book or newspaper, Or tuning your browser to the 'frequecy' of the web server. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
[eff-austin] Consumer electronics companies and Hollywood may beagreeing on a smart card copy protection system (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 02:07:03 + From: Tom Morin Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: eff-austin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [eff-austin] Consumer electronics companies and Hollywood may be agreeing on a smart card copy protection system There is an article on the EE Times web site on how Consumer electronics companies and Hollywood studios are about to agree on a smart card copy protection system that was originally developed by Thomson Multimedia. http://www.eet.com/sys/news/OEG20021213S0034 Tom Morin
Re: Libel lunacy -all laws apply fnord everywhere
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002, Steve Schear wrote: From the article: The court dismissed suggestions the Internet was different from other broadcasters, who could decide how far their signal was to be transmitted. This is totally bogus thinking. The Internet is not broadcast medium. Yes, it is. Every site that emits a packet broadcasts it onto the network. One can even make a comparison between 'frequency modulation' with 'IP service'. Information from Web sites must be requested, the equivalent of ordering a book or newspaper, Or tuning your browser to the 'frequecy' of the web server. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'SHotel
On 15 Dec 2002, David Wagner wrote: Declan McCullagh wrote: Also epic.org (not a cypherpunk-friendly organization, but it does try to limit law enforcement surveillance) [...] Is the cypherpunks movement truly so radicalized that it is not willing to count even EPIC among its friends? Clearly the CACL crowd thinks so...now as to whether they define who the cypherpunks are, that's another entirely different question. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
New Scientist - Virtual world to run on real cash... (fwd)
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns3180 -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
CNN.com - Maryland court limits police searches - Dec. 12, 2002 (2)(fwd)
http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/12/12/drug.searches.ap/index.html -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Physics Today December 2002 - Truth, Ownership, Scientific Tradition(fwd)
http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-55/iss-12/p10.html -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: [IP] Dan Gillmor: Accessing a whole new world via multimedia phones (fwd)
On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Steve Furlong wrote: On Friday 13 December 2002 23:30, Jim Choate wrote: On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Mike Rosing wrote: Content is crap, conectivity is king A.M. Odlyzko at Univ. Wisconsin, early 2002 (May I think?) Bullshit, if there isn't content why do they want connectivity? What is it they are connecting to? You don't have daughters, do you? If you did, the bill for the second phone line would answer your question. Nitwit, who are the daughters talking to, dial-tone? Not. They are solving two problems, entertainment and a problem (social connectivity). -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'SHotel
On 15 Dec 2002, David Wagner wrote: Declan McCullagh wrote: Also epic.org (not a cypherpunk-friendly organization, but it does try to limit law enforcement surveillance) [...] Is the cypherpunks movement truly so radicalized that it is not willing to count even EPIC among its friends? Clearly the CACL crowd thinks so...now as to whether they define who the cypherpunks are, that's another entirely different question. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'SHotel
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Tyler Durden wrote: Well, this is for me not an easy issue. Amerika has always had a hard-on for fascism (as long as it was in the service of freedom), and as a result the pendulum seems to swing pretty wildly at times. It's not America, it's people. Some have compared the concept of 'paper protection' of rights as worthless, yet the countries who do have such protection are the ones where the centralization of power in an elite is the most hindered. Crypto is for me primarily a way to send information to somebody else without worrying if a third party hears it. This may be financial data, it may be personal information. They can't understand it, they can certainly capture the transmission which maps directly to 'hearing', and they can certainly learn the 'language' (ie crack the crypto) if given enough time and effort. In a state where crypto (and hence my right to communicate discretely) is resisted, it then transforms into a means of resistance and possible preservation of residual freedoms. No, it actually acts as evidence of your intent. Using crypto in Russia, China, or France for example will not protect you, it will single you out of the crowd. The only place crypto will work is where there is no real consequence for using it with regards to the law. It's an empty promise of protection. and only for reasons that have undeniable need (WW2 is an example, as was the Chinese Communist reaction to the Nationalist's non-response to Japanese Genocide in China). The term you're looking for is 'self-defence'. In this sense, then, strong Crypto, Ubiquitous WiFi/Broadband, P2P, Blacknet and so on are for me tools with which to head off scenarios where violence might otherwise be the only reasonable recourse. Gibberish, the use of any of these -requires- the consent of the powers that be by -not- regulating them. Take WiFi for example, if it were not sanctioned by the FCC then it wouldn't exist, and if you built such devices you would in fact be saying 'Here I am, come get me', not to mention that in such a situation the ability of others to use it (you're using it is worthless if 'they' don't use it also) is severely constrained. This leads to the classic OTP key sharing problem of a 'secure channel'. close, though.) What I DO hope is that via the proliferation of such (and other) technologies, the very notions of limiting speech (whether by good guys or bad guys), surveillance of on-line activites, and so on, become anachronistic, perhaps even non-concepts. The only way this stuff will work is to become so common that people can't think of their lives without it, that it is used so deeply day to day that it becomes a necessity. That will -require- some sort of willingness on the part of the governing bodies to allow it. The only way that will happen is to apply the technology in a broad swath of applications -before- the regulatory agencies really understand the consequences. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: [IP] Dan Gillmor: Accessing a whole new world via multimedia phones (fwd)
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Mike Rosing wrote: Content is crap, conectivity is king A.M. Odlyzko at Univ. Wisconsin, early 2002 (May I think?) Bullshit, if there isn't content why do they want connectivity? What is it they are connecting to? Content (ala entertainment or problem resolution) are what drive the network. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'SHotel
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Tyler Durden wrote: Well, this is for me not an easy issue. Amerika has always had a hard-on for fascism (as long as it was in the service of freedom), and as a result the pendulum seems to swing pretty wildly at times. It's not America, it's people. Some have compared the concept of 'paper protection' of rights as worthless, yet the countries who do have such protection are the ones where the centralization of power in an elite is the most hindered. Crypto is for me primarily a way to send information to somebody else without worrying if a third party hears it. This may be financial data, it may be personal information. They can't understand it, they can certainly capture the transmission which maps directly to 'hearing', and they can certainly learn the 'language' (ie crack the crypto) if given enough time and effort. In a state where crypto (and hence my right to communicate discretely) is resisted, it then transforms into a means of resistance and possible preservation of residual freedoms. No, it actually acts as evidence of your intent. Using crypto in Russia, China, or France for example will not protect you, it will single you out of the crowd. The only place crypto will work is where there is no real consequence for using it with regards to the law. It's an empty promise of protection. and only for reasons that have undeniable need (WW2 is an example, as was the Chinese Communist reaction to the Nationalist's non-response to Japanese Genocide in China). The term you're looking for is 'self-defence'. In this sense, then, strong Crypto, Ubiquitous WiFi/Broadband, P2P, Blacknet and so on are for me tools with which to head off scenarios where violence might otherwise be the only reasonable recourse. Gibberish, the use of any of these -requires- the consent of the powers that be by -not- regulating them. Take WiFi for example, if it were not sanctioned by the FCC then it wouldn't exist, and if you built such devices you would in fact be saying 'Here I am, come get me', not to mention that in such a situation the ability of others to use it (you're using it is worthless if 'they' don't use it also) is severely constrained. This leads to the classic OTP key sharing problem of a 'secure channel'. close, though.) What I DO hope is that via the proliferation of such (and other) technologies, the very notions of limiting speech (whether by good guys or bad guys), surveillance of on-line activites, and so on, become anachronistic, perhaps even non-concepts. The only way this stuff will work is to become so common that people can't think of their lives without it, that it is used so deeply day to day that it becomes a necessity. That will -require- some sort of willingness on the part of the governing bodies to allow it. The only way that will happen is to apply the technology in a broad swath of applications -before- the regulatory agencies really understand the consequences. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Slashdot | Tim O'Reilly Says Piracy is Progressive Taxation (fwd)
http://slashdot.org/articles/02/12/12/0712207.shtml?tid=141 -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Photographer Arrested For Taking Pictures Of Vice President'SHotel
On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Tim May wrote: (Sidebar: I often wish for TIVO radio. It's called cron and your friendly TV card w/ FM radio. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Slashdot | MSNBC: Offices Remain Spam Free Zones (fwd)
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/02/12/08/2246251.shtml?tid=111 -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Actors As Undercover Operatives In The Workplace -- www1.internetwire.com(fwd)
http://www1.internetwire.com/iwire/release_html_b1?release_id=49436 -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
News: Data-loss bug stings Linux (fwd)
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-976427.html -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
CNN.com - High court to consider cross-burning laws - Dec. 8, 2002(fwd)
http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/12/08/court.crossburning.ap/index.html And I would have thought the trespass would be enough to stop 'them' from doing it on somebody elses property... -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Slashdot | Known-Good MD5 Database (fwd)
http://slashdot.org/articles/02/12/09/0411224.shtml?tid=172 -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Mercury News | 12/09/2002 | Paul Krugman: Marketplace suffers ifNet is unregulated (fwd)
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4700012.htm -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
California Is at Fiscal Brink (fwd)
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/09/national/09CALI.html?ex=1040101200en=496fcc83eb784259ei=5006partner=ALTAVISTA1 -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Supreme Court Refuses to Intervene in Money Laundering Dispute. AlsoMoving on (fwd)
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGALT3CKI9D.html -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Network Intelligence unveils log appliance (fwd)
http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/12/09/021209hnlogsmart.xml?s=IDGNS -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Supreme Court Refuses to Debate Free Legal Help for Death Row Inmates- from Ta (fwd)
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA5YF2KI9D.html -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
CNN.com - Secretive map agency opens its doors - Dec. 9, 2002 (fwd)
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/12/09/map.makers/index.html -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
NAIs Sniffer to support 802.11a (fwd)
http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/12/09/021209hnnai.xml?s=IDGNS -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Supreme Court Refuses to Intervene in Money Laundering Dispute.Also Moving on (fwd)
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Harmon Seaver wrote: These ap.tbo.com links don't work. I get ap.tbo.com can't be found. I mentioned this a few days ago. I can do a whois on tbo.com alright, but a lookup on ap.tbo.com says non-existant host/domain They work fine for me at every site (machines at three different domains) I tested. Which seems rather obvious since I'm finding them to forward them. Whatever the resolution problem is, it's on your end or some betwix the two. Sorry you're having the problem but there is nothing I can do about it. Perhaps you should talk to your nameserver operator(s). -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Supreme Court Refuses to Intervene in Money Laundering Dispute.Also Moving on (fwd)
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Harmon Seaver wrote: These ap.tbo.com links don't work. I get ap.tbo.com can't be found. I mentioned this a few days ago. I can do a whois on tbo.com alright, but a lookup on ap.tbo.com says non-existant host/domain They work fine for me at every site (machines at three different domains) I tested. Which seems rather obvious since I'm finding them to forward them. Whatever the resolution problem is, it's on your end or some betwix the two. Sorry you're having the problem but there is nothing I can do about it. Perhaps you should talk to your nameserver operator(s). -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Build It Rolling Your Own Tivo (fwd)
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Bill Stewart wrote: At 11:38 PM 12/06/2002 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: You should have tried this back in the late 80's with a single frame VHS recorder and an Amiga Video Toaster...one frame at a time, thank god for AREXX ;) If you were actually using the Video Toaster, and not just the Amiga's CPU, you had what passed for a really hefty amount of CPU-equivalent back then, because the video crunching happened in the Toaster card, not in the Amiga itself. The Amiga had enough work to do just storing the compressed video onto a disk... Agreed, but the point argues to my point not against it. Thanks. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Build It Rolling Your Own Tivo (fwd)
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Jamie Lawrence wrote: On Sat, 07 Dec 2002, Lucky Green wrote: It never ceases to amaze me that there are subscribers to this list that don't have Choate filtered. This must be some weird list to read without a Choate procmail filter... Yes, my mistake. I've seen Choate devolve from a strange actor to a net.loon, and I should have known better. I thought an off-list hint might help, and that was my mistake. I promise never again to venture into Choate Prime. Yada yada yada...I'm still waiting for a reference where Godel equates 'undecidable' to 'incomplete' -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Not as simple as it looks - Re: Build It Rolling Your Own Tivo(fwd)
An example from my day yesterday... I have two 'cheap boxes', one from nation wide chain store (who sells things other than high tech and appliances, a wall to wall mart if you will) and one from a local Austin vendor. The behavior was checked against multiple instances of boxes so we know it isn't a single bad box. Each machine has all the normal stuff, 1G of RAM, 2x80G HD. They also include an AGP video card, PCI video capture card (no tuner, commercial quality board), and a PCI 10/100M Ethernet. Running under Linux using various Open Source tools. We used different AGP and network cards to verify brand dependence. Different brand board for AGP or network made no difference. We couldn't try different video capture boards due to cost, we had a single board. One of the boxes works fine. The other drops frames if the network traffic gets too high or you really push the video board. It doesn't drop much, down to about 27fps from 30fps, but it drops. And at the same time you get digital aliasing [1], which is the real killer. Pull the AGP or network (usually the network because we like the pretty pictures) and all is fine (though w/o network it's a little annoying). Why? The interrupt controller on the slower box isn't up to it. I have a similar project under Plan 9 where I'm trying to take four of these cheap-ass television cards in a cheap-ass box and export them into a namespace so you could at least in principle watch television from just about anywhere. The video frame is limited to 320x200 (for several reasons I won't go into here). And those babies drop frames for this same reason. I will grant that video support on Plan 9 is down right pre-historic so some improvement may be gleaned from re-doing that (I hope so or else we'll drop this as infeasible at this level of tech). So, no, setting up a -quality- video capture system isn't easy or mundane on expensive systems and certainly not cheap boxes. But then again, you may not even notice the aliasing or dropped frames. That you don't notice the jitter or blocky display speaks to you, not the technology. Which is -not- to say it can't be done, I see from 3-5 of these sorts of systems a month built that work fine. But it does take time and effort, it is -not- plug and play. Also be prepared to tweak the television drivers for Linux since they are seldom optimal. [1] This is that 'blockish' effect you will see on a lot of television shows now because a lot of them are moving to non-linear video editor suites, it occurs when the conversion process stalls a bit in frame. It comes from the machine not being able to keep up and update the field completely so you'll get the even or odd field but not both. Clouds are a really good place to look for this effect. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Inferno: Chilling Effects Clearinghouse (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 21:34:46 -0600 Subject: Inferno: Chilling Effects Clearinghouse http://www.chillingeffects.org/ Question: What are Chilling Effects? Answer: Chilling Effects refers to the deterrent effect of legal threats or posturing, largely cease and desist letters independent of litigation, on lawful conduct. The Chilling Effects clearinghouse will catalogue cease and desist notices and present analyses of their claims to help recipients resist the chilling of legitimate activities (as well as understand when their activities are unlawful). The project's core, this database of letters and FAQ-style analyses is supplemented by legal backgrounders, news items, and pointers to statutes and caselaw. Periodic weather reports will sum up the legal climate for online activity. Of particular interest is their collection of FAQs on the DMCA, Copyright, Copyright Infringement, Derivative Works, Domain Names, etc. http://www.chillingeffects.org/faq.cgi
Not as simple as it looks - Re: Build It Rolling Your Own Tivo(fwd)
An example from my day yesterday... I have two 'cheap boxes', one from nation wide chain store (who sells things other than high tech and appliances, a wall to wall mart if you will) and one from a local Austin vendor. The behavior was checked against multiple instances of boxes so we know it isn't a single bad box. Each machine has all the normal stuff, 1G of RAM, 2x80G HD. They also include an AGP video card, PCI video capture card (no tuner, commercial quality board), and a PCI 10/100M Ethernet. Running under Linux using various Open Source tools. We used different AGP and network cards to verify brand dependence. Different brand board for AGP or network made no difference. We couldn't try different video capture boards due to cost, we had a single board. One of the boxes works fine. The other drops frames if the network traffic gets too high or you really push the video board. It doesn't drop much, down to about 27fps from 30fps, but it drops. And at the same time you get digital aliasing [1], which is the real killer. Pull the AGP or network (usually the network because we like the pretty pictures) and all is fine (though w/o network it's a little annoying). Why? The interrupt controller on the slower box isn't up to it. I have a similar project under Plan 9 where I'm trying to take four of these cheap-ass television cards in a cheap-ass box and export them into a namespace so you could at least in principle watch television from just about anywhere. The video frame is limited to 320x200 (for several reasons I won't go into here). And those babies drop frames for this same reason. I will grant that video support on Plan 9 is down right pre-historic so some improvement may be gleaned from re-doing that (I hope so or else we'll drop this as infeasible at this level of tech). So, no, setting up a -quality- video capture system isn't easy or mundane on expensive systems and certainly not cheap boxes. But then again, you may not even notice the aliasing or dropped frames. That you don't notice the jitter or blocky display speaks to you, not the technology. Which is -not- to say it can't be done, I see from 3-5 of these sorts of systems a month built that work fine. But it does take time and effort, it is -not- plug and play. Also be prepared to tweak the television drivers for Linux since they are seldom optimal. [1] This is that 'blockish' effect you will see on a lot of television shows now because a lot of them are moving to non-linear video editor suites, it occurs when the conversion process stalls a bit in frame. It comes from the machine not being able to keep up and update the field completely so you'll get the even or odd field but not both. Clouds are a really good place to look for this effect. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Build It Rolling Your Own Tivo (fwd)
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Jamie Lawrence wrote: On Sat, 07 Dec 2002, Lucky Green wrote: It never ceases to amaze me that there are subscribers to this list that don't have Choate filtered. This must be some weird list to read without a Choate procmail filter... Yes, my mistake. I've seen Choate devolve from a strange actor to a net.loon, and I should have known better. I thought an off-list hint might help, and that was my mistake. I promise never again to venture into Choate Prime. Yada yada yada...I'm still waiting for a reference where Godel equates 'undecidable' to 'incomplete' -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: CDR: Re: Build It Rolling Your Own Tivo (fwd)
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Jamie Lawrence wrote: Don't worry about me sending private email in the future... You're not only a complete idiot, but you're rude as fuck as well. That's funny. No, actually, for those of us who live in the real world, it isn't as important as you make it out to be. Uh huh... I'm not going to tell you the processor speed, becuase that would only egg you on. Rather speaks for itself, doesn't it? -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Money is about expected future value....nothing more, nothing less
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Tim May wrote: [At least 4-5 of Hettinga's e$/digibucks/qwatloos chat lists elided from this distributioninstead of creating so many lists, ... well, it's obvious what the instead of ought to be.] On Wednesday, December 4, 2002, at 06:17 PM, Peter Fairbrother wrote: OK, suppose we've got a bank that issues bearer money. Money is too broad a term, encompassing bullion, giant stones, coins, chop marks, scrip, IOUs, checks (of several kinds), warehouse receipts, markers, seashells, wire transfers, SWIFT orders, diamonds, bonds (of several kinds), casino chips, promissory notes, etc. If a Swiss bank, the pre-eunuch form, took in other forms of money and gave one a number or a passbook, this would be the bank issuing bearer money. Tim's comparison is flawed. A bank making loans is not the same as a Swiss numbered account where they were taking in money or goods and renting storage. If you wanted a loan from a Swiss bank you still needed ID so they could chase you down if you didn't pay the loan back. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Analysts Examine WiFi's Future: 3 simultaneous channels
On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Steve Schear wrote: conditions deteriorate when the noise floor moves up. In busy locations the radius of effective communication may shrink until the devices are little more than wireless cable replacements. That's all they are supposed to be. Strictly short-range devices intended for point-to-point (not area in the sense of a WAN) coverage. They are meant to keep you from having to haul a 200ft ethernet cable around behind you while you bar-b-que at home, or go to the board room at work. They are -not- meant to replace backbone infrastructure, only extend it. -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
Re: Build It Rolling Your Own Tivo (fwd)
On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Some poser wrote: Jim, you post enough crap from Slashdot to know differently. People are doing it. I have a whitebox machine (AMD, 256M ram, cheap TV card, 20G disk, $300 a year ago) that does it. It isn't a big deal. Speaking of posting crap...and don't send me private email. Which is irrelevant, what is the CPU speed of the box? -THAT- is what is important...raw processing power. An old 486dx/80 running Linux will store video but only at a handfull of fps. In any real world system not only are you going to pull the raw data off the tv card (30fps@4Mb/frame@60s~=.7G for 1m of video) but also use a codec to compress it. Then you've also got to move the bits onto the hard drive. All without throwing any interrupts that will cause a dropped frame or cause a codec problem. And don't forget that's at the default television resolution (which is less than 640x480). If you want to scale it up to 1024*768 you've got a lot of interpollating to throw in there as well. And then if you want HDTV or Widescreen (Firefly in widescreen is awesome!) you've got an even heavier load. This lets you put roughly 45m of video (along with the audio) on a standard 600M CD-R (and if you want to burn the CD-R or watch the stream at the same time you're encoding it while you surf the net and handle email and run your firewall... you can increase the cpu requirements considerably). There -is- a big deal and it went right over your head. Just any old cheap box will -not- do video -effectively-. Then again, maybe you like watching 320x200. You should have tried this back in the late 80's with a single frame VHS recorder and an Amiga Video Toaster...one frame at a time, thank god for AREXX ;) -- We don't see things as they are, [EMAIL PROTECTED] we see them as we are. www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anais Nin www.open-forge.org
