Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 10:24:35PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/30/23 21:37, Max Nikulin wrote:
> > So to install "klipper is just a program" you run some scripts that
> > overwrite /etc/network/interfaces and you blame NetworkManager and some
> > other stuff instead.
> If you would bother to read what I posted, you would have seen that
> networkmangler claimed credit for that overwritten /e/n/i file.

1. There is nothing in Debian that ever overwrites the
   /etc/network/interfaces file. But you aren't running Debian on
   this machine, so we are all having difficulty helping you.
   Because this is DEBIAN-user.

2. All you've described is a line in a file which says, "Network is
   managed by NetworkManager". There is NO indication WHICH piece of
   software put that line there, it really could be anything.
   Because you aren't running Debian. Since NetworkManager can be
   set up to run arbitrary commands, it certainly COULD be YOUR
   setup of NetworkManager. Or something else entirely different.
   It's nothing in Debian, though.

> > Then you are incompatible with software you are trying to run. Your
> > options:
> > - do not allow scripts coming with klipper or its installer to touch
> > network configuration
> > - setup a DHCP server in your network and provide to 3d wizards
> > environment they expect.
> > 
> Again, Max, its your way or the hiway. I'd be willing to guess that my
> network experience goes back at least a decade before your first class in cs
> 101. /etc/hosts files worked in 1990 then as now, we just have to get the
> dhcp crap out of the way.  And you and your insistence on using dhcp which
> has never given me a stable address are definitely NOT helping.

This like some sort of farce.

You have an operating system hard-coded to use DHCP, but you won't
use DHCP, so it doesn't work. You can't work out how to make it not
want DHCP; you won't ask the people who made it how; instead you ask
us completely uninvolved folks how to do it. When we tell you to
configure it for static networking you say you can't because it
wants DHCP. When we say use DHCP then, you say, "oh I see it's your
way or the hiway, I'll have you know I was crafting IP packets from
raw bean sprouts before you kids ever drew breath!"

So would I be correct in saying that you want US to work out how to
do this thing in software we don't use and that's off-topic here,
and that's the only answer you'll accept?

Or have I misunderstood and there is some other direction you would
like to go with this?

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: Gnome shell freezes randomly

[Zenaan Harkness]

I get the same thing, every now and then default gnome desktop
freezes. For me the mouse also freezes. About 20 minutes ago I
discovered when I physically disconnected my tethered mobile phone,
the desktop unfroze.

I've also achieved the unfreeze with disconnecting my laptop from the
thunderbolt docking station, then reconnecting it. This requires much
more substantial delays than just disconnecting/reconnecting the
mobile phone. The dock is obviously more complex and attaches to 2
external monitors.

I've also experienced the freeze at the login screen.

I do not know how we can further test this.

(I also get the whole desktop session die often when a video (using
mpv) ends - see other thread. For me at the moment it appears that
gnome/wayland is not yet sufficiently stable for my hardware
configuration (no gpu, just an Intel cpu, and the dock).)

On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 6:31 AM Marlin  wrote:
>
> I have been experiencing random lockups of gnome-shell ever since I did
> a new install of bookworm sometime in July. When I say lockup/freeze, I
> mean that the mouse cursor still moves on the display, but I can not
> click anything. The rest of the system is not frozen. I can ssh into it.
> Yesterday morning I found gnome frozen with the clock showing 4:21 AM. I
> could not find anything in the logs that correlated to that time, but it
> may be that I am not searching at the right spot. I was using journalctl.
>
>
>
> Below are some commands I ran while gnome was frozen.
>
> ps shows normal system usage while top shows the cpu load at 100%. Maybe
> that is just one core?
>
> marlin@RRE:~$ ps -aux | grep gnome-shell
> marlin  3289  4.8  2.9 4977044 971368 ?  Ssl  Nov24 207:00
> /usr/bin/gnome-shell
> marlin  3330  0.0  0.0 581188 17496 ?Sl   Nov24   0:00
> /usr/libexec/gnome-shell-calendar-server
> marlin  3404  0.0  0.0 2850056 28740 ?   Sl   Nov24   0:00
> /usr/bin/gjs /usr/share/gnome-shell/org.gnome.Shell.Notifications
> marlin  3587  0.0  0.0 2661648 27468 ?   Sl   Nov24   0:00
> /usr/bin/gjs /usr/share/gnome-shell/org.gnome.ScreenSaver
> marlin434729  0.0  0.0   6332  2116 pts/0S+   06:58   0:00 grep
> gnome-shell
> marlin@RRE:~$
>
> marlin@RRE:~$ top
> top - 07:01:32 up 2 days, 22:45,  2 users,  load average: 1.19, 1.24, 1.25
> Tasks: 413 total,   1 running, 412 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
> %Cpu(s):  6.3 us,  1.8 sy,  0.2 ni, 91.5 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.2 si,
> 0.0 st
> MiB Mem :  31903.9 total,365.4 free,  19651.1 used,  12489.9 buff/cache
> MiB Swap:  38264.0 total,  37913.7 free,350.2 used.  12252.8 avail Mem
>
>PID USER  PR  NIVIRTRESSHR S  %CPU  %MEM
> TIME+ COMMAND
>   3289 marlin20   0 4977044 971536 107480 S 100.0   3.0
> 209:54.08 gnome-shell
>
>
>
> marlin@RRE:~$ free
>   totalusedfree  shared  buff/cache
> available
> Mem:3266958820130636  366032  14293212789816
> 12538952
> Swap:   39182332  35865638823676
> marlin@RRE:~$
>
>
> marlin@RRE:~$ inxi -Gaz
> Graphics:
>  Device-1: NVIDIA GK208B [GeForce GT 710] vendor: Gigabyte driver:
> nvidia v: 470.199.02 non-free:
>series: 470.xx+ status: legacy-active (EOL~2023/24) arch: Fermi 2
> code: GF119/GK208
>process: TSMC 28nm built: 2010-16 pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s
> lanes: 8 link-max: gen: 2
>speed: 5 GT/s bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:128b class-ID: 0300
>  Display: x11 server: X.org v: 1.21.1.7 with: Xwayland v: 22.1.9
> compositor: gnome-shell
>v: 43.6 driver: X: loaded: nvidia unloaded:
> fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa alternate: nv
>gpu: nvidia tty: 120x30
>  API: OpenGL Message: GL data unavailable in console and glxinfo
> missing.
> marlin@RRE:~$
>
> marlin@RRE:~$ uname -a
> Linux RRE 6.1.0-13-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.55-1
> (2023-09-29) x86_64 GNU/Linux
> marlin@RRE:~$
>
> If anyone has any suggestions, I will be glad for them. I know this kind
> of an issue is hard to debug because I do not know how to cause it to
> freeze.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Marlin
> Pennsylvania, United States

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[David Wright]

On Thu 30 Nov 2023 at 22:30:12 (-0500), gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/30/23 22:07, John Hasler wrote:
> > Gene writes:
> > > let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT
> > > have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp.
> > 
> > I'm sure it's running dhclient.  do
> > 
> >  ls /etc/dhcp
> > 
> > and
> > 
> >  ps ax | grep dhc
> > 
> > You don't need to do anything on that machine.  Just install a dhcp
> > server somewhere on your network (on the router is conventional) and it
> > will give that machine an ip number.
> 
> At risk of repeating myself forever, I don't need an unstable address,
> I don't want whatever the heck is left in the pool. Hosts files do
> that, dhcp doesn't. It just hands out the next number in the pool.
> hosts files are static. A forveer lease.

What happened to your intentions in:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2023/11/msg01083.html
It's long past 20:00.

Cheers,
David.

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Max Nikulin]

On 01/12/2023 10:24, gene heskett wrote:
If you would bother to read what I posted, you would have seen that 
networkmangler claimed credit for that overwritten /e/n/i file.


Then, please, explain clearly what is "networkmangler", what is 
"/e/n/i", and what particular evidences you have that namely 
"networkmangler" overwrites "/e/n/i".


I am not familiar with QIDI, kiauth.sh, and similar 3rd party stuff.

What I see in your messages are false claims, e.g. that DHCP addresses 
are unstable. DHCP servers *may* be configured to assign fixed addresses 
to particular clients.

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> At risk of repeating myself forever, I don't need an unstable address,
> I don't want whatever the heck is left in the pool. Hosts files do
> that, dhcp doesn't. It just hands out the next number in the pool.
> hosts files are static. A forveer lease.

You're doing things the hard way, but whatever.  In any case that
Klipper box is not running Debian: your are on the wrong forum.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[John Hasler]

Klipper runs on OctoPi, a customized Linux distribution.  As installed
it is set up to use DHCP.  You can either install a DHCP server on your
network and it will just work, or you can figure out how to modify
OctoPi to do things your way.  You seem to be banging your head against
a wall trying to do the latter.

BTW my network experience goes back to bang paths.  I'm currently using
both hosts files and DHCP.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/30/23 22:07, John Hasler wrote:

Gene writes:

let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT
have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp.


I'm sure it's running dhclient.  do

 ls /etc/dhcp

and

 ps ax | grep dhc

You don't need to do anything on that machine.  Just install a dhcp
server somewhere on your network (on the router is conventional) and it
will give that machine an ip number.


At risk of repeating myself forever, I don't need an unstable address, I 
don't want whatever the heck is left in the pool. Hosts files do that, 
dhcp doesn't. It just hands out the next number in the pool.  hosts 
files are static. A forveer lease.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/30/23 21:37, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 01/12/2023 01:44, gene heskett wrote:


/e/n/i waa replaced, and nothing in an ip a or ip r was changed.

[...]

On 11/30/23 07:31, Max Nikulin wrote:

May it be that klipper-related "optimizers" add some script?


The classic NIH syndrome, advertized even.


klipper runs fine on several other bananapi-m5 here, w/o any special 
treatment

[...]

root@mkspi:/# journalctl -b
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-NETWORK-NOT-FOUND
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 


So to install "klipper is just a program" you run some scripts that 
overwrite /etc/network/interfaces and you blame NetworkManager and some 
other stuff instead.
If you would bother to read what I posted, you would have seen that 
networkmangler claimed credit for that overwritten /e/n/i file.


Good luck in your attempts to find pieces of your "3d" network 
configurator in cron tasks, all kinds of init scripts, and systemd 
units. It is completely unrelated to Debian.



which requires it get rid of the 169.254.nnn.nnn its using now.


This case 169.254.x.y IPv4LL addresses is a manifestation of another 
trouble. These addresses can coexist with 192.168.x.y addresses. Do not 
concentrate on link local addresses.



I don't want or need a dhcp-server.


Then you are incompatible with software you are trying to run. Your 
options:
- do not allow scripts coming with klipper or its installer to touch 
network configuration
- setup a DHCP server in your network and provide to 3d wizards 
environment they expect.


Again, Max, its your way or the hiway. I'd be willing to guess that my 
network experience goes back at least a decade before your first class 
in cs 101. /etc/hosts files worked in 1990 then as now, we just have to 
get the dhcp crap out of the way.  And you and your insistence on using 
dhcp which has never given me a stable address are definitely NOT helping.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 08:33:47PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> This machine has a working ntp

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 09:05:17PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT have
> dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc  Only dhcp.

OK, screw it.  I give up.  I cannot figure out which computer you're
talking about in any given sentence.  You seems to switch computers
every email, possibly more than once per email.

If you're having a problem with your "printer", then THAT is the computer
you should be talking about!

But now you're using phrases like "this machine" and referring to some
OTHER host that isn't the printer... GAAHH!  Why would you talk about OTHER
computers when you have problems with THE PRINTER?!  This is impossible
to understand!

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT
> have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc Only dhcp.

I'm sure it's running dhclient.  do

ls /etc/dhcp

and

ps ax | grep dhc

You don't need to do anything on that machine.  Just install a dhcp
server somewhere on your network (on the router is conventional) and it
will give that machine an ip number.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Max Nikulin]

On 01/12/2023 01:44, gene heskett wrote:


/e/n/i waa replaced, and nothing in an ip a or ip r was changed.

[...]

On 11/30/23 07:31, Max Nikulin wrote:

May it be that klipper-related "optimizers" add some script?

klipper runs fine on several other bananapi-m5 here, w/o any special 
treatment

[...]

root@mkspi:/# journalctl -b
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-NETWORK-NOT-FOUND
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 


So to install "klipper is just a program" you run some scripts that 
overwrite /etc/network/interfaces and you blame NetworkManager and some 
other stuff instead.


Good luck in your attempts to find pieces of your "3d" network 
configurator in cron tasks, all kinds of init scripts, and systemd 
units. It is completely unrelated to Debian.



which requires it get rid of the 169.254.nnn.nnn its using now.


This case 169.254.x.y IPv4LL addresses is a manifestation of another 
trouble. These addresses can coexist with 192.168.x.y addresses. Do not 
concentrate on link local addresses.



I don't want or need a dhcp-server.


Then you are incompatible with software you are trying to run. Your options:
- do not allow scripts coming with klipper or its installer to touch 
network configuration
- setup a DHCP server in your network and provide to 3d wizards 
environment they expect.

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/30/23 14:14, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 02:06:16PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:

What I just found is /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf, which if you read it, contains
some examples at the bottom of it, such as:
--
#alias {
#  interface "eth0";
#  fixed-address 192.5.5.213;
#  option subnet-mask 255.255.255.255;
#}

#lease {
#  interface "eth0";
#  fixed-address 192.33.137.200;
#  medium "link0 link1";
#  option host-name "andare.swiftmedia.com";
#  option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
#  option broadcast-address 192.33.137.255;
#  option routers 192.33.137.250;
#  option domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;
#  renew 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
#  rebind 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
#  expire 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
#}
-


I have no idea what would happen if you uncommented these things on a
system that uses dhclient.  There's a "LEASE DECLARATIONS" section in
dhclient.conf(5) that appears to discuss it, but I've never used it, and
I don't want to make statements based on an extremely brief skim of
the first paragraph.

However, now I'm even more confused.  I thought your system had dhcpcd
installed and running.  Why would it *also* have a configuration file
for dhclient?  These are two completely different DHCP client packages.
I can't imagine why dhcpcd would read this file at all.

.
let me clarify: This buster machine acting like a 3d printer does NOT 
have dhcpcd installed. No trace of it in /etc  Only dhcp. And apparently 
does have networkmangler, so at present I have no way but sneakernet 
with a usb key, to get updates of any kind to it, so until I do get it a 
legit address I'm stuck using nano to edit what actually IS there.  The 
only screen is the printers lcd screen, probably run by KlipperScreen. 
Its a rockchip board, so I expect if uncovered I'd find a couple open 
usb ports to plug in a keyboard and mouse, and an hdmi socket to plug a 
monitor into.  If I brick the network, I'll probably have to do that. 
But I'm a, out of table room, and b, would have to rig it for hoisting 
to gt a bigger table under it.  I have a worn out back and it weighs 80 lbs.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: used vs. unused packages installed

[David Wright]

On Thu 30 Nov 2023 at 16:06:06 (-0600), Mike McClain wrote:
> Is there any way to determine which packages are used of the many
> that come with an install?

I don't know of one.

> My Raspberry Pi install of bookworm has some 1800 packages
> installed many of which I know I don't use, many others I suspect I
> don't use but don't know if some program I do use depends on them at
> some point in its life.

My principal bullseye has 2064, and has no DE, but includes
*TeX, LibreOffice, and a generous number of fonts. Without
knowing this sort of information, it's difficult to judge.

An obvious method is --no-install-recommends, but don't be surprised
when some packages lack functionality that you expect to be present.

> $ apropos editor | wc   reports 23 hits
> Six of which are various versions of VI which I don't use but pico,
> nano, mcedit, mousepad and mu-editor are also included. I only use jed
> but don't know what would break if I purged the others and am loathe
> to break a working system.

Some of these are in the same package (bits of vim ± gui) or part
of another package (mc/mcedit), and some are too small to worry about
(nano/pico). Others are too specialised to be thought of as just
editors (editres, gparted, mid3v2), and the lack of some will break
your system (sed).

> There are 259 packages whose name starts with 'python', admittedly I
> could purge one a week and see if anything breaks, that would only take
> 5 years but I'm not quite that patient.

Only 58 here; what am I doing wrong? No, actually I thought you would
approve of the number, as it goes to show how much python has been
fragmented so that you only have to install the parts needed.

> Suggestions?

apt-get --purge autoremove
deborphan -Ps   or orphaner
cruft-ng
debfoster

The last of these is, I think, like --no-install-recommends,
something you set up beforehand.

BTW are you seriously short of space, or just a tidy person?
(You don't have to answer.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/30/23 13:06, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 04:12:48PM +, Andy Smith wrote:

Once you've got your networking sorted out and you are setting up an
NTP server, your next issue will be that one NTP server isn't
enough:

 
https://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/ntp-s-algo-real/#532-why-should-i-have-more-than-one-clock

The reason for this is that if you have just one NTP server for your
network, and it goes bad (tells the wrong time), no one will be able
to tell.


Well, you have to consider the actual goal.  If the goal is for the
printer to know the exact time, because it's going to print that time
on legal documents, then your point is worth considering.

But if the goal is simply to ensure that all the computers on the LAN
share the *same* time, right or wrong, then having them all sync to
the same, possibly drifting, time server is all that's needed.

Also remember, this is just Gene's home network.  It's not a major data
center.  A single NTP server for a home network sounds adequate to me.
Ultimately it's Gene's choice to make.

This machine has a working ntp, so it should be within a millisecond or 
so of Boulder CO if the debian "pool" references that src.  The 
recalcitrant armbian running the rockchip card in the printer can access 
this machine for ping4 or ping6 purposes. It would be adequate if for 
timekeeping purposes if it referenced this machine. However its just as 
desirable to get it "online" with the rest of my machines, which 
requires it get rid of the 169.254.nnn.nnn its using now.  I think I've 
found where to do it, but not right now, the printer is busy making me a 
mount to solar power a you've got mail alarm, with is presently using a 
special 12 volt battery, a 23A, every two weeks. My checking for ntp 
does not find anything on that card


So preliminary:
1;install on this machine the whole ntpsec group. That removed the 
systemd/timesyncd utility
2:create the logging dir as spec'd in /etc/ntpsec/ntp.conf. Restart 
/etc/init.d/ntpsec, looks like its working. I'll let it simmer a day.
3: ntp.conf describes how to make a server but i'll have to find some 
man page for LetsEncrypt. Nut that means I'll have to talk to Igor and 
rsync their repo to get it to a place on this machine where that one can 
suck stuff from. df says my boot drive has


/dev/sdb1 863983352  15834692  804187012   2% /

used, so I ought to be able to do that. Either that, or (thinking 
outside the box) better yet make this machine into a NAT server to that 
machine as that would also enable the use of kiauh to keep the printer 
AND its OS updated.


Is there a ready made package to do that NAT-ing? Or can the modernized 
iptables do that?.


Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: used vs. unused packages installed

[John Hasler]

 Mike McClain writes:
> Is there any way to determine which packages are used of the many that
> come with an install?  My Raspberry Pi install of bookworm has some
> 1800 packages installed many of which I know I don't use, many others
> I suspect I don't use but don't know if some program I do use depends
> on them at some point in its life.

When you remove a package using apt it removes packges that depend on
it.

Run

apt -s remove  | grep Remv

This will list all the packages that depend on  and therefor
would also be removed. "apt -s" simulates the action without actually
changing anything.  It needn't be run as root.
-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Could/should you set Dir::Cache::{pkgcache, srcpkgcache} = ""; if all you are doing is locally downloading dependencies of an installation package?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 04:52:01PM -0600, David Wright wrote:
> BTW could you not write part of your post in the Subject line:
> in order to respond to that specific part of the post, the
> replier has either to top post, or paste the Subject line
> back into the correct place. That's ignoring the fact that
> many MUAs will truncate the Subject in their index list, so
> users won't see what the post is about.

Agreed.  Email etiquette suggests that a Subject: header should never
be longer than fits on one line of the terminal (and terminals are 80
columns wide, you heathens).  With the "Subject: " string taking 9
characters, and allowing another 4 characters for "Re: " and one more
character to prevent line-wrapping when writing to the 80th column,
this means your Subject: should be a maximum of 65 characters.  Shorter
is better.

Re: used vs. unused packages installed

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 04:06:06PM -0600, Mike McClain wrote:
> Is there any way to determine which packages are used of the many
> that come with an install?

My first thought is that popularity-contest should be able to tell you
this, because it's able to tell *Debian* which packages are "old"
(not recently used).

One of the programs that comes with it is /usr/sbin/popcon-largest-unused
which looks like what you want.

See .  Looks like
you have to allow popcon to run at least once.

Re: used vs. unused packages installed

[Dan Ritter]

Mike McClain wrote: 
> Is there any way to determine which packages are used of the many
> that come with an install?
> My Raspberry Pi install of bookworm has some 1800 packages
> installed many of which I know I don't use, many others I suspect I
> don't use but don't know if some program I do use depends on them at
> some point in its life.
> $ apropos editor | wc   reports 23 hits
> Six of which are various versions of VI which I don't use but pico,
> nano, mcedit, mousepad and mu-editor are also included. I only use jed
> but don't know what would break if I purged the others and am loathe
> to break a working system.
> There are 259 packages whose name starts with 'python', admittedly I
> could purge one a week and see if anything breaks, that would only take
> 5 years but I'm not quite that patient.
> 
> Suggestions?

Pick a suspect package and run

apt-cache rdepends --installed PACKAGE

That shows you all the packages which are installed and depend
on this PACKAGE.

That saves you from the uninstall-and-see-what-breaks dance.

-dsr-

Re: Could/should you set Dir::Cache::{pkgcache, srcpkgcache} = ""; if all you are doing is locally downloading dependencies of an installation package?

[David Wright]

On Thu 30 Nov 2023 at 21:05:38 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
>  I also notice repeated copies of {src-, pkgcache}.bin files for each
> downloaded package even though I am downloading them to specific
> subdirectories in order to then install them using dpkg.
>  Do you really need those binaries and cache instructions if you are
> just downloading the installation dependencies? How do you remove,
> disregard those kinds of caching strategies in a graceful way?

Perhaps you could elaborate on the commands you're running.
I don't get "repeated" copies (whatever that means) of
{src-,}pkgcache.bin files when I download packages. Do you
mean the .bin files in /var/cache/apt/ are being overwritten,
or that there are files matching {src-,}pkgcache.bin.* in
that directory, or that you find {src-,}pkgcache.bin files
are being created in other locations?

BTW could you not write part of your post in the Subject line:
in order to respond to that specific part of the post, the
replier has either to top post, or paste the Subject line
back into the correct place. That's ignoring the fact that
many MUAs will truncate the Subject in their index list, so
users won't see what the post is about.

Cheers,
David.

used vs. unused packages installed

[Mike McClain]

Is there any way to determine which packages are used of the many
that come with an install?
My Raspberry Pi install of bookworm has some 1800 packages
installed many of which I know I don't use, many others I suspect I
don't use but don't know if some program I do use depends on them at
some point in its life.
$ apropos editor | wc   reports 23 hits
Six of which are various versions of VI which I don't use but pico,
nano, mcedit, mousepad and mu-editor are also included. I only use jed
but don't know what would break if I purged the others and am loathe
to break a working system.
There are 259 packages whose name starts with 'python', admittedly I
could purge one a week and see if anything breaks, that would only take
5 years but I'm not quite that patient.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Mike McClain
--
Every problem has a gift for you in its hands.
- Richard Bach

Re: Could/should you set Dir::Cache::{pkgcache, srcpkgcache} = ""; if all you are doing is locally downloading dependencies of an installation package?

[Dan Ritter]

Albretch Mueller wrote: 
>  I also notice repeated copies of {src-, pkgcache}.bin files for each
> downloaded package even though I am downloading them to specific
> subdirectories in order to then install them using dpkg.
>  Do you really need those binaries and cache instructions if you are
> just downloading the installation dependencies? How do you remove,
> disregard those kinds of caching strategies in a graceful way?


Does 'sudo apt clean' solve this for you?

-dsr-

Could/should you set Dir::Cache::{pkgcache, srcpkgcache} = ""; if all you are doing is locally downloading dependencies of an installation package?

[Albretch Mueller]

 I also notice repeated copies of {src-, pkgcache}.bin files for each
downloaded package even though I am downloading them to specific
subdirectories in order to then install them using dpkg.
 Do you really need those binaries and cache instructions if you are
just downloading the installation dependencies? How do you remove,
disregard those kinds of caching strategies in a graceful way?
 lbrtchx

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[John Hasler]

dhcpcd is a DHCP client with a remarkably poorly chosen name.

DHCPCD(8)System Manager’s Manual  DHCPCD(8)

NAME
   dhcpcd — a DHCP client

dhcpd is a DHCP server.

-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 14:13:22 -0500
Greg Wooledge  wrote:

> I thought your system had dhcpcd
> installed and running.  Why would it *also* have a configuration file
> for dhclient?  These are two completely different DHCP client
> packages. I can't imagine why dhcpcd would read this file at all.


dhcp*d* is the ISC DHCP server, not a client.

man 8 dhcpd

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 02:06:16PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> What I just found is /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf, which if you read it, contains
> some examples at the bottom of it, such as:
> --
> #alias {
> #  interface "eth0";
> #  fixed-address 192.5.5.213;
> #  option subnet-mask 255.255.255.255;
> #}
> 
> #lease {
> #  interface "eth0";
> #  fixed-address 192.33.137.200;
> #  medium "link0 link1";
> #  option host-name "andare.swiftmedia.com";
> #  option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
> #  option broadcast-address 192.33.137.255;
> #  option routers 192.33.137.250;
> #  option domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;
> #  renew 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
> #  rebind 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
> #  expire 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
> #}
> -

I have no idea what would happen if you uncommented these things on a
system that uses dhclient.  There's a "LEASE DECLARATIONS" section in
dhclient.conf(5) that appears to discuss it, but I've never used it, and
I don't want to make statements based on an extremely brief skim of
the first paragraph.

However, now I'm even more confused.  I thought your system had dhcpcd
installed and running.  Why would it *also* have a configuration file
for dhclient?  These are two completely different DHCP client packages.
I can't imagine why dhcpcd would read this file at all.

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/30/23 09:14, John Hasler wrote:

Gene writes:

I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in
/etc/dhcpcd.conf?


You don't.  That file tells the client how to get an ip (among other
things) from the server.  The default configuration should work.  You
assign static ips on the server when using dhcp.  But why do you want to
do that?



I don't want or need a dhcp-server.

What I just found is /etc/dhcp/dhclient.conf, which if you read it, 
contains some examples at the bottom of it, such as:

--
#alias {
#  interface "eth0";
#  fixed-address 192.5.5.213;
#  option subnet-mask 255.255.255.255;
#}

#lease {
#  interface "eth0";
#  fixed-address 192.33.137.200;
#  medium "link0 link1";
#  option host-name "andare.swiftmedia.com";
#  option subnet-mask 255.255.255.0;
#  option broadcast-address 192.33.137.255;
#  option routers 192.33.137.250;
#  option domain-name-servers 127.0.0.1;
#  renew 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
#  rebind 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
#  expire 2 2000/1/12 00:00:01;
#}
-
which looks a lot like it should work if there's no typu's. But I won't 
putz with it till the present job is done around 20:00 tonight.


Thanks John.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/30/23 08:11, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On 30/11/2023 17:15, gene heskett wrote:

I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in
/etc/dhcpcd.conf? This is already in /etc/hosts like this:


You're confusing the DHCP server and the DHCP client.

People have told you that you must either configure the static IP on
the host itself, *or* set up a DHCP server.

If you're going to set up a DHCP server, then after choosing a computer
to act as the server, and after installing the DHCP server package on
it, you would configure dhcpd.conf (in some directory) to define your
dynamic address pool, and any reserved addresses for specific hosts.

Note the file name: dhcpd.conf which is composed of these pieces:

   dhcpd  -- DHCP server daemon
   .conf  -- configuration file

In the text cited above, you referred to dhcpcd.conf which is completely
different file.  That one is for one of the several different DHCP *client*
packages.  In your case, it's for the "dhcpcd" package, which is not used
by default in Debian, but *is* used by default in some Debian derivatives.

   dhcpcd -- DHCP client daemon (from the "dhcpcd" package)
   .conf  -- configuration file

Now, the real goal here is that you want to configure a static IP
address on this host.  If this were Debian, the answer would simply be
"edit /etc/network/interfaces, kill dhcpcd if it's running, ifdown eth0,
ifup eth0" (not necessarily in that order, and with various safeguards
in place).  However, you seem to be running a "twice derivative" OS of
some kind -- it's Armbian with some special Klipper management script
installed which takes over glob-knows-what.

It is armbian, klipper is just a program that runs on anything linux, 
maybe even winderz too but I wouldn't know, I don't allow winderz on the 
premises. I might use the hd for target practice.



The number of people who know how to configure networking on a
"Debian no wait it's Armbian no wait it's Klipper" host is probably quite
small, and I'm not one of them.  If you don't have instructions, then
you may need to find a community of fellow Klipper users and ask them.
Though I suspect the overwhelming majority of them use a DHCP server
instead of static addressing on the host, you may get lucky and find one
who does it your preferred way.


I found another place to put it, but haven't tried it yet. Busy with 
another project, making a solar power supply for a mailbox ygm alarm.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/30/23 07:31, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 30/11/2023 17:15, gene heskett wrote:

On 11/29/23 23:52, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 30/11/2023 11:07, gene heskett wrote:


root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli
-bash: nmcli: command not found

---

However it did not work, and the file was replaced by one containing 
only lo by networkmangler on a powerdown reboot.  Next???


What particular file has been replaced? You do not have NetworkManager 
installed
/e/n/i waa replaced, and nothing in an ip a or ip r was changed. It was 
restored to:

root@mkspi:/# cat /etc/network/interfaces
source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
# Network is managed by Network manager<-this line I had removed
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback



dpkg -S /usr/bin/nmcli
network-manager: /usr/bin/nmcli

Moreover in default configuration it does not touch 
/etc/network/interfaces. It just reads it do avoid managing of the same 
interfaces. May it be that klipper-related "optimizers" add some script?


klipper runs fine on several other bananapi-m5 here, w/o any special 
treatment as lomg as /dev/serial/by-id is wotking, debian nroke it in 
buster and it will not be fixed again till trixie.  Discord/klipper has 
patches for it.
I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in 
/etc/dhcpcd.conf? This is already in /etc/hosts like this:


Forget it for a while. You either configure static IP address or DHCP 
server on your router or on another host with properly configured network.



For reference, this is what I put in /e/n/i":

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
 address 192.168.71.100/24
 gateway 192.168.71.1
 dns-nameservers 192.168.71.1


I expect "dns-nameservers" may cause changes in /etc/resolv.conf if you 
mean it. Are address and gateway settings applied?


  ip address list
  ip route list

Do you get any error in "journalctl -b" or in syslog files?

.

root@mkspi:/# journalctl -b
-- Logs begin at Mon 2023-01-02 02:56:20 PST, end at Mon 2023-01-02 
04:01:23 PST. --
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-BSS-REMOVED 1289 
50:27:a9:d2:aa:e3
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-SCAN-RESULTS
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 418

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 已获取到了扫描的结果
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: WPS-AP-AVAILABLE
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 439

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: Available WPS AP found in scan results.
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-NETWORK-NOT-FOUND
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-SCAN-STARTED
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-BSS-ADDED 1305 
98:da:c4:98:b2:19
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-SCAN-RESULTS
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 418

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 已获取到了扫描的结果
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: WPS-AP-AVAILABLE
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 439

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: Available WPS AP found in scan results.
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: CTRL-EVENT-NETWORK-NOT-FOUND
Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: [Dec 10 2022][15:22:28] 
/root/xindi/src/mks_wpa_cli.cpp: 416

Jan 02 02:56:20 mkspi bash[1443]: 收到wpa回调信息:
lines 1-36


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 04:12:48PM +, Andy Smith wrote:
> Once you've got your networking sorted out and you are setting up an
> NTP server, your next issue will be that one NTP server isn't
> enough:
> 
> 
> https://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/ntp-s-algo-real/#532-why-should-i-have-more-than-one-clock
> 
> The reason for this is that if you have just one NTP server for your
> network, and it goes bad (tells the wrong time), no one will be able
> to tell.

Well, you have to consider the actual goal.  If the goal is for the
printer to know the exact time, because it's going to print that time
on legal documents, then your point is worth considering.

But if the goal is simply to ensure that all the computers on the LAN
share the *same* time, right or wrong, then having them all sync to
the same, possibly drifting, time server is all that's needed.

Also remember, this is just Gene's home network.  It's not a major data
center.  A single NTP server for a home network sounds adequate to me.
Ultimately it's Gene's choice to make.

Re: Utiliser G'MIC dans gimp

[benoit]

Le jeudi 30 novembre 2023 à 17:11, benoit  a écrit :

> Bonjour,
>
> J'ai installé le paquet gimp-gmic, mais c'est grisé dans gimp
>
> https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/gimp-gmic
>
> Je ne sais pas comme l'activer.

Je me répond !
Désolé, je n'avais pas essayé...
Ca s'active quand on ouvre une image

Benoit

Utiliser G'MIC dans gimp

[benoit]

Bonjour,

J'ai installé le paquet gimp-gmic, mais c'est grisé dans gimp

https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/gimp-gmic

Je ne sais pas comme l'activer.

Merci d'avance

--
Benoit

Envoyé avec la messagerie sécurisée [Proton Mail.](https://proton.me/)

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Andy Smith]

Hi Gene,

On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:52:46PM -0500, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/29/23 13:20, John Hasler wrote:
> > But first fix that address.
> 
> How, John? QIDI is afraid of enabling full net access because it might
> overwrite some of their special stuff. Right now its running armbian buster,
> which is out of support.  And surprise, kiauh.sh is installed, likely how
> they set the printer up in the first place.  Its just a bash script but its
> magic!

No one knows what any of this stuff is because it's NOT DEBIAN and
this is DEBIAN-users. You should ask these questions on the support
venues for whatever these things are, where you will get fewer
answers that are specific to Debian.

Once you've got your networking sorted out and you are setting up an
NTP server, your next issue will be that one NTP server isn't
enough:


https://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/ntp-s-algo-real/#532-why-should-i-have-more-than-one-clock

The reason for this is that if you have just one NTP server for your
network, and it goes bad (tells the wrong time), no one will be able
to tell.

If you have two, clients will be able to tell that one of them has
gone bad (or both!) but not which one of them.

If you have at least three, then it is possible to determine when
one of them is off.

Unless you have a dedicated time source (e.g. GPS receiver, atomic
decay source, …) then any NTP server you set up will not be
significantly better than just using the public NTP pool as all
Debian NTP clients are configured to do by default.

So basically I would say there is no point in you trying to run an
NTP server and you should just try to make sure that all your
machines having working networking and run a working NTP client.

If you DID want to run an NTP server on your network, all it would
achieve is slightly reducing the amount of traffic you send over the
Internet, however it would be entirely unsurprising for your local
NTP clients to select the remote servers as being more accurate and
send the packets over the Internet anyway. And since you need at
least least three clocks defined in every NTP client, you can't
avoid configuring at least two off-site servers. It may as well be
all three (preferably more).

But sort the networking out first.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Charles Curley]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 11:52:04 +0700
Max Nikulin  wrote:

> Charles suggests to enable DHCP server on your router and I support
> him.

A nitpick, if I may. Apparently not all commercial routers support
static addressing via DHCP. I was suggesting Gene use the ISC DHCP
server, which does not have to be on your router; any Unix or Linux
machine will do. Indeed, if you use the failover capability (I do), at
least one instance of it will not be on the router.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in
> /etc/dhcpcd.conf?

You don't.  That file tells the client how to get an ip (among other
things) from the server.  The default configuration should work.  You
assign static ips on the server when using dhcp.  But why do you want to
do that?


-- 
John Hasler 
j...@sugarbit.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Set UEFI boot target with Windows (was: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router)

[Joe]

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 13:27:59 +0100
Arno Lehmann  wrote:


> 
> ... have you ever tried
> 
> bcdedit /bootsequence 
> 
> In general, the built-in help of bcdedit is not bad, needs a bit of 
> patience, though.
> 
> And of course we lack the flexibility of tools such as awk or sed on 
> Windows, to automate setting things and still remain flexible :-)
> 
> On a particular system, with rather static setup, hard-coding a
> single bcdedit call and automatically execute that should be
> feasible, though.
> 
> Give it a try if you haven't done yet!
> 

I have used it in the past, when Windows moved away from boot.ini. That
was probably XP, so about twenty years ago.

I believe using it to write currently requires booting to Safe Mode,
and if I've got to reboot, it might as well be to the Debian install
disc/USB. Having got to chroot, I just use the up-arrow and it remembers
the efibootmgr command I used last time.

I haven't looked for a while, if it's possible to set NextBoot from
normal Windows it would be worth doing.

-- 
Joe

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Greg Wooledge]

> On 30/11/2023 17:15, gene heskett wrote:
> > I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in
> > /etc/dhcpcd.conf? This is already in /etc/hosts like this:

You're confusing the DHCP server and the DHCP client.

People have told you that you must either configure the static IP on
the host itself, *or* set up a DHCP server.

If you're going to set up a DHCP server, then after choosing a computer
to act as the server, and after installing the DHCP server package on
it, you would configure dhcpd.conf (in some directory) to define your
dynamic address pool, and any reserved addresses for specific hosts.

Note the file name: dhcpd.conf which is composed of these pieces:

  dhcpd  -- DHCP server daemon
  .conf  -- configuration file

In the text cited above, you referred to dhcpcd.conf which is completely
different file.  That one is for one of the several different DHCP *client*
packages.  In your case, it's for the "dhcpcd" package, which is not used
by default in Debian, but *is* used by default in some Debian derivatives.

  dhcpcd -- DHCP client daemon (from the "dhcpcd" package)
  .conf  -- configuration file

Now, the real goal here is that you want to configure a static IP
address on this host.  If this were Debian, the answer would simply be
"edit /etc/network/interfaces, kill dhcpcd if it's running, ifdown eth0,
ifup eth0" (not necessarily in that order, and with various safeguards
in place).  However, you seem to be running a "twice derivative" OS of
some kind -- it's Armbian with some special Klipper management script
installed which takes over glob-knows-what.

The number of people who know how to configure networking on a
"Debian no wait it's Armbian no wait it's Klipper" host is probably quite
small, and I'm not one of them.  If you don't have instructions, then
you may need to find a community of fellow Klipper users and ask them.
Though I suspect the overwhelming majority of them use a DHCP server
instead of static addressing on the host, you may get lucky and find one
who does it your preferred way.

Re: Set UEFI boot target with Windows

[Max Nikulin]

On 30/11/2023 19:27, Arno Lehmann wrote:

Am 30.11.2023 um 12:52 schrieb Joe:

I have a
netbook which, left to its own devices, will always boot to Windows,
and cannot be made to boot to anything else from the UEFI part of
whatever we're supposed to call the BIOS these days.


... have you ever tried

bcdedit /bootsequence 


I have read that early UEFI versions of some vendors had hardcoded path 
to windows loader. Another variant is loader installed to "removable" 
path EFI/Boot (in additional or instead of EFI/microsoft) and firmware 
tries EFI/Boot with higher priority.


From linux:

efibootmgr -v
ls -l /boot/efi/EFI/{boot,debian,microsoft}

I have a decade-old HP laptop that boots from EFI/Boot. (Or using a 
custom boot entry with path to shimx64.efi created from the firmware 
setup menu that is less convenient.) It has never had windows installed 
though.

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Max Nikulin]

On 30/11/2023 17:15, gene heskett wrote:

On 11/29/23 23:52, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 30/11/2023 11:07, gene heskett wrote:


root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli
-bash: nmcli: command not found

---

However it did not work, and the file was replaced by one containing 
only lo by networkmangler on a powerdown reboot.  Next???


What particular file has been replaced? You do not have NetworkManager 
installed


dpkg -S /usr/bin/nmcli
network-manager: /usr/bin/nmcli

Moreover in default configuration it does not touch 
/etc/network/interfaces. It just reads it do avoid managing of the same 
interfaces. May it be that klipper-related "optimizers" add some script?


I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in 
/etc/dhcpcd.conf? This is already in /etc/hosts like this:


Forget it for a while. You either configure static IP address or DHCP 
server on your router or on another host with properly configured network.



For reference, this is what I put in /e/n/i":

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
     address 192.168.71.100/24
     gateway 192.168.71.1
     dns-nameservers 192.168.71.1


I expect "dns-nameservers" may cause changes in /etc/resolv.conf if you 
mean it. Are address and gateway settings applied?


 ip address list
 ip route list

Do you get any error in "journalctl -b" or in syslog files?

Set UEFI boot target with Windows (was: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router)

[Arno Lehmann]

Bit of a digression here, probably better not to pursue *this* on the 
mailing list, but...


Am 30.11.2023 um 12:52 schrieb Joe:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:34:30 -0500
Jeffrey Walton  wrote:

  


As I understand things, a well functioning UEFI system does not need
to use GRUB. The entries for Linux and Windows will be in the UEFI
boot menu, and you can boot directly using EFI variables.



It's the 'well functioning' that is sometimes a problem. I have a
netbook which, left to its own devices, will always boot to Windows,
and cannot be made to boot to anything else from the UEFI part of
whatever we're supposed to call the BIOS these days. It does not honour
DefaultBoot, always resetting it to Windows, but for some reason does
honour NextBoot. So once Linux is running, a script sets NextBoot to
grub. Unfortunately, there's no simple way to set NextBoot from
Windows,


... have you ever tried

bcdedit /bootsequence 

In general, the built-in help of bcdedit is not bad, needs a bit of 
patience, though.


And of course we lack the flexibility of tools such as awk or sed on 
Windows, to automate setting things and still remain flexible :-)


On a particular system, with rather static setup, hard-coding a single 
bcdedit call and automatically execute that should be feasible, though.


Give it a try if you haven't done yet!


There seems to be a lot of problems with the EFI commands operating
BIOSes properly, so I wonder if good old MS requires compliant
manufacturers to get it wrong deliberately.


Well...

... probably yes. But that's MS and their hardware partners for you. 
It's getting better the more MS loses interest in actually selling Windows.



Cheers,

Arno

--
Arno Lehmann

IT-Service Lehmann
Sandstr. 6, 49080 Osnabrück

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 09:39:04AM +, Bonno Bloksma wrote:
> I never used the network manager as that is more work for me, I have no idea 
> how that works even. ;-)

You and me both.

> -=-=-=-=-=-=-
> $ cat /etc/network/interfaces
> # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
> # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).
> 
> source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*
> 
> # The loopback network interface
> auto lo
> iface lo inet loopback
> 
> # The primary network interface
> allow-hotplug ens32
> iface ens32 inet static
> address 172.16.208.19
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> gateway 172.16.208.1
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-

Depending on what services your computer runs, you may wish to change
"allow-hotplug ens32" to "auto ens32".  The latter will cause certain
services (e.g. NFS server) to wait until the network interface has been
brought up before starting.  As you have it now, most services will not
wait.

Of course, if everything is working as you have it, then "don't touch it"
is a wise course.  But you may want to make a mental note, in case a
problem happens at some point in the future.  The usual symptom is
"Such-and-such doesn't start at boot time, but if I login and start it
manually, it works fine.  I checked and the service is enabled, but it
fails."

Re: Hardware Advice Wanted: Router

[Joe]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 18:34:30 -0500
Jeffrey Walton  wrote:

 
> 
> As I understand things, a well functioning UEFI system does not need
> to use GRUB. The entries for Linux and Windows will be in the UEFI
> boot menu, and you can boot directly using EFI variables.
> 

It's the 'well functioning' that is sometimes a problem. I have a
netbook which, left to its own devices, will always boot to Windows,
and cannot be made to boot to anything else from the UEFI part of
whatever we're supposed to call the BIOS these days. It does not honour
DefaultBoot, always resetting it to Windows, but for some reason does
honour NextBoot. So once Linux is running, a script sets NextBoot to
grub. Unfortunately, there's no simple way to set NextBoot from
Windows, so after the odd occasion when I run that, I need a rescue USB
to get back to grub.

There seems to be a lot of problems with the EFI commands operating
BIOSes properly, so I wonder if good old MS requires compliant
manufacturers to get it wrong deliberately.

For the curious, I occasionally need to run Microchip MPLAB, the old
pre-Java version which doesn't do Linux. It only just about does
Windows... I used to think Serif software was buggy until I tried
Microchip stuff.

-- 
Joe

RE: time question, as in ntp?

[Bonno Bloksma]

Hi,

I am oldfashioned, I have been using Linux for over 20 years when we still had 
to compile our own kernels to support certain hardware. :-(

I have always configured the network interface on my Linux machines via 
/etc/network/interfaces and not via DHCP. The reason for that is quite simple, 
most of my Linux machine ARE my DHCP servers. :-)
I never used the network manager as that is more work for me, I have no idea 
how that works even. ;-)

My interfaces file pretty much always looks something like this. I barely ever 
use the new option to use the /etc/network/interfaces.d/ path.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
$ cat /etc/network/interfaces
# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The primary network interface
allow-hotplug ens32
iface ens32 inet static
address 172.16.208.19
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 172.16.208.1
-=-=-=-=-=-=-

All other servers DO use DHCP for their config and get a static ip number via 
settings in the /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf file.
That way I can centrally manage the ip network config in case something 
changes, like maybe the network mask when the number of devices grows beyond my 
initial estimate. That has happened twice in the past 20 years.

For IPv6 configuration I still use the auto config from the router and not 
DHCPv6. In IPv6 they looked good at what was missing from IPv4 and was 
available in other protocols like IPX where you never did any configuration on 
the client.
I have noticed that is the local dns server is properly configured everything 
works by default.

Bonno Bloksma

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Dan Purgert]

On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/29/23 21:40, Charles Curley wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 20:53:19 -0500
> > gene heskett  wrote:
> > 
> > > > A changing network is exactly what dhcp is for.  With it you will
> > > > not need to do anything when you add a machine.
> > > 
> > > Does it always lock the address to that MAC? ISTR a time long ago
> > > when it didn't.
> > 
> > Normally DHCP does not lock a given IP address to a given MAC address.
> > However, you can do so on a per machine basis with the fixed-address
> > option. E.g:
> > 
> > host hawk   # new (2016) desktop
> > {
> > option host-name "hawk";
> > hardware ethernet 30:5a:3a:81:83:79;
> > fixed-address 192.168.100.6;
> > option domain-name-servers 192.168.100.30, 127.0.0.1; # chaffee, 
> > localhost
> > ddns-hostname hawk;
> > }
> In what file do I place similar info to this for eth0?

You don't set it on a client, but the DHCP Server itself.

Specific network host (if Debian or a derivative) would be
/etc/network/interfaces. 

-- 
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Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Dan Purgert]

On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/29/23 20:20, John Hasler wrote:
> > Gene writes:
> > > I've been told that /etc/network/interfaces is not the "today way" to
> > > do it.
> > 
> > It works fine.
> > 
> > > Then [dhcp is] something else I'll have to maintain as my network
> > > grows,
> > 
> > A changing network is exactly what dhcp is for.  With it you will not
> > need to do anything when you add a machine.
> Does it always lock the address to that MAC? ISTR a time long ago when it
> didn't.

Not by default.  It certainly /can/ though.  I can't say it's been
available "forever", but reservations for specific MAC addresses have
been available for the last 20 years.

Noting, of course, that just because a network has a DHCP pool, you
don't _have_ to use it for all hosts.  For example here, I have all
"servers" and network hardware set up with static addresses outside the
DHCP Pool, then a pool for mobile devices (phones / tablets / etc.) and
obviously anything "new" that gets added.

-- 
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Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/30/23 05:32, Dan Purgert wrote:

On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:

On 11/29/23 17:52, Dan Purgert wrote:

On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:

On 11/29/23 14:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

'ntpd' I think (or is it systemd-timed or something like that nowadays?)


Gene's system is running some derivative of buster (Debian 10).

No I am not, Greg, been running bookworm for almost a year on this machine.
It is the 3d printer, a QIDI X-MAX 3,  which is running armbian buster that
I am trying to fix. At least enough to set its clock, which is about a year
out of date ATM.

Just now did a powerdown which restarts it at:Sun 01 Jan 2023 06:02:14 AM
PST

I have added some of my hosts file into its hosts file, and I can ping back
and forth, and a valid ipv4 nameserver to resolv.conf and ping is working
locally. But I can't find where its setting its default ipv4 address to the
avahi bs, even with grep -r.


Avahi BS?  APIPA ("A"utomatic "P"rivate "IP" "A"ddressing) is not
avahi/mDNS (aka Bonjour / Zeroconf).

Your DHCP client giving you an APIPA address is indicative of broken
DHCP, and the fix is either:

A. Fix your broken DHCP
B. Set the machine up with a static IP address

I'm kind of surprised that an Armbian box doesn't have a hwclock that
you can set the proper time on, to survive reboots (but anyway, I
imagine once you get the machine running with a valid IP address for
your network, it'll be able to use whatever time-sync service armbian
ships with (quick ddg search implies it ships with chrony installed /
setup as default).


I'll have to check that, but installing chrony here on this bookworm box
will remove the systemd thing, which is present on the armbian buster


Leave the bookworm PC alone - the problem is specifically on your
armbian box or network in general.


installed on it.  ISTR I had the rpi4 setup on buster raspios plus my rt
kernel, and that static entry IIRC was in /etc/network/interfaces, which I
haven't tried yet.  Was that buster or did they have a better place.


/etc/network/interfaces is the standard place for configuring network
interfaces in Debian and derivatives (although Network Mangler may be
offered as a frontend)


Tickled my memory, /etc/dhcpcd.conf would appear to be the place. But I'll
have to compose 100% of the option "static".


"Static" IP addressing is not handled in dhcp client configs.

According to the buster it is an option, and at one time, perhaps 
wheezy, there was a whole stanza of commented code at the bottom of the 
file, where last ditch descriptions could be uncommented and filled in 
to suit a static setup after all efforts to find a dhcp server have 
failed. This to me was the logical place to put that.  Re-read  the man 
page.  Its been simplified quite a bit but seems to exist yet if you 
know how.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Dan Purgert]

On Nov 30, 2023, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 30/11/2023 05:53, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > Avahi BS?  APIPA ("A"utomatic "P"rivate "IP" "A"ddressing) is not
> > avahi/mDNS (aka Bonjour / Zeroconf).
> > 
> > Your DHCP client giving you an APIPA address is indicative of broken
> > DHCP, and the fix is either:
> 
> avahi-daemon (multicast name resolution and service discovery) and
> avahi-autoipd (link-local IP addresses) debian packages are built from the
> same "avahi" upstream project despite their purpose is different (and
> related).
> 
> There are alternatives that may play the same roles (assigning 169.254.x.y
> IPv4LL addresses and sending/responding to mDNS queries): udhcp,
> systemd-networkd. I am unsure however if all CUPS features are available
> without avahi.

APIPA (or I guess more appropriately now -- IPv4LL) addresses are a
timeout failure mode of the DHCP client (IIRC the default Debian client
is / was isc-dhcp-client).  At least that's what's running here (box
pulled forward from a netinst of Jessie or Sarge), and _without_
avahi-autoipd I can get those if DHCP falls over (least ISTR getting it,
maybe I never did :/ )

> 
> With proper network configuration (static IP addresses as first step) avahi
> may be ignored in this case. Currently avahi-autoipd (or another tool)
> successfully manged to make it possible to connect at least local network.
> Since static IPs are used in the local network, manual configuration is
> required to make global connections available.
> 

-- 
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Re: time question, as in ntp?

[Dan Purgert]

On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> On 11/29/23 17:52, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > On Nov 29, 2023, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 11/29/23 14:03, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Nov 29, 2023 at 01:17:18PM -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > > > > 'ntpd' I think (or is it systemd-timed or something like that 
> > > > > nowadays?)
> > > > 
> > > > Gene's system is running some derivative of buster (Debian 10).
> > > No I am not, Greg, been running bookworm for almost a year on this 
> > > machine.
> > > It is the 3d printer, a QIDI X-MAX 3,  which is running armbian buster 
> > > that
> > > I am trying to fix. At least enough to set its clock, which is about a 
> > > year
> > > out of date ATM.
> > > 
> > > Just now did a powerdown which restarts it at:Sun 01 Jan 2023 06:02:14 AM
> > > PST
> > > 
> > > I have added some of my hosts file into its hosts file, and I can ping 
> > > back
> > > and forth, and a valid ipv4 nameserver to resolv.conf and ping is working
> > > locally. But I can't find where its setting its default ipv4 address to 
> > > the
> > > avahi bs, even with grep -r.
> > 
> > Avahi BS?  APIPA ("A"utomatic "P"rivate "IP" "A"ddressing) is not
> > avahi/mDNS (aka Bonjour / Zeroconf).
> > 
> > Your DHCP client giving you an APIPA address is indicative of broken
> > DHCP, and the fix is either:
> > 
> >A. Fix your broken DHCP
> >B. Set the machine up with a static IP address
> > 
> > I'm kind of surprised that an Armbian box doesn't have a hwclock that
> > you can set the proper time on, to survive reboots (but anyway, I
> > imagine once you get the machine running with a valid IP address for
> > your network, it'll be able to use whatever time-sync service armbian
> > ships with (quick ddg search implies it ships with chrony installed /
> > setup as default).
> 
> I'll have to check that, but installing chrony here on this bookworm box
> will remove the systemd thing, which is present on the armbian buster

Leave the bookworm PC alone - the problem is specifically on your
armbian box or network in general. 

> installed on it.  ISTR I had the rpi4 setup on buster raspios plus my rt
> kernel, and that static entry IIRC was in /etc/network/interfaces, which I
> haven't tried yet.  Was that buster or did they have a better place.

/etc/network/interfaces is the standard place for configuring network
interfaces in Debian and derivatives (although Network Mangler may be
offered as a frontend)

> Tickled my memory, /etc/dhcpcd.conf would appear to be the place. But I'll
> have to compose 100% of the option "static".

"Static" IP addressing is not handled in dhcp client configs.

-- 
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Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/29/23 23:52, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 30/11/2023 11:07, gene heskett wrote:

root@mkspi:/etc# networkctl
WARNING: systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete.

IDX LINK TYPE   OPERATIONAL SETUP
   1 lo   loopback   n/a unmanaged
   2 eth0 ether  n/a unmanaged
   3 wlan0    wlan   n/a unmanaged


So systemd-networkd does not manage network. (You may still get a bit 
more from it by "networkctl status").



root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli
-bash: nmcli: command not found


The network-manager package is not installed, so likely it is ifupdown.


On 11/29/23 21:31, Max Nikulin wrote:
P.S. Enabling DHCP may allow to use default network configuration on 
all devices.


hu, I'm logged in wit ssh:
root@mkspi:/etc# cat default/networking


Charles suggests to enable DHCP server on your router and I support him.

Concerning this particular machine and static network configuration see 
/etc/network/interfaces, interfaces(5), 
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration (this link was almost 
certainly posted in earlier threads).


     grep -r '' /etc/network/interfaces{,.d}


However it did not work, and the file was replaced by one containing 
only lo by networkmangler on a powerdown reboot.  Next???


I want to put it at 192.168.71.100/24. How do I do that in 
/etc/dhcpcd.conf? This is already in /etc/hosts like this:

---
root@mkspi:~# cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1  localhost
192.168.71.1   router.coyote.denrouter
192.168.71.3coyote.coyote.den   coyote
192.168.71.100 mkspi.coyote.den mkspi
::1localhost ip6-localhost ip6-loopback
fe00::0ip6-localnet
ff00::0ip6-mcastprefix
ff02::1ip6-allnodes
ff02::2ip6-allrouters
--

For reference, this is what I put in /e/n/i":

auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.71.100/24
gateway 192.168.71.1
dns-nameservers 192.168.71.1
---
That format worked on an rpi4b running debian arm64 bookworm, but not on 
the armbian buster in this printer.


Thank you.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/29/23 23:52, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 30/11/2023 11:07, gene heskett wrote:

root@mkspi:/etc# networkctl
WARNING: systemd-networkd is not running, output will be incomplete.

IDX LINK TYPE   OPERATIONAL SETUP
   1 lo   loopback   n/a unmanaged
   2 eth0 ether  n/a unmanaged
   3 wlan0    wlan   n/a unmanaged


So systemd-networkd does not manage network. (You may still get a bit 
more from it by "networkctl status").



root@mkspi:/etc# nmcli
-bash: nmcli: command not found


The network-manager package is not installed, so likely it is ifupdown.


On 11/29/23 21:31, Max Nikulin wrote:
P.S. Enabling DHCP may allow to use default network configuration on 
all devices.


hu, I'm logged in wit ssh:
root@mkspi:/etc# cat default/networking


Charles suggests to enable DHCP server on your router and I support him.

Concerning this particular machine and static network configuration see 
/etc/network/interfaces, interfaces(5), 
https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkConfiguration (this link was almost 
certainly posted in earlier threads).


     grep -r '' /etc/network/interfaces{,.d}

Got it, thank you.



.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: time question, as in ntp?

[gene heskett]

On 11/29/23 23:34, Charles Curley wrote:

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 23:15:16 -0500
gene heskett  wrote:


In what file do I place similar info to this for eth0?


That is part of the ISC DHCP server's configuration.
/etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf man dhcpd.conf



I thought so but wanted a confirmation, thank you.




Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis

Re: [HS] installer Signal sous Debian sans smartphone

[Sébastien NOBILI]

Bonjour,

Le 2023-11-29 16:07, Jean Louis Giraud Desrondiers a écrit :

mais je bloque sur l'étape 1 pour installer Signal-cli :
que faire de ceci :
 # Sous Linux, suivre les instruction ici :
 # https://github.com/AsamK/signal-cli/wiki/Quickstart


La page explique la procédure « d'installation » :

- installer un JRE via ton gestionnaire de paquets
- extraire l'archive de `signal-cli` dans un dossier
- lancer la commande

Sébastien