Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio problem

[Keith Trinity WE6R]

Hi Chris;
I would stop using the radio immediately!
Sounds like the main audio chip U1 on the DSP board is going out.
When they fail, you can get a HI CUR warning because they are shorting out.
They can heat to the point of destroying the DSP board (which we don't 
have anymore).

Digikey LM4950TSNOPB
Keith WE6R Elecraft K3/K4 Tech


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[Elecraft] K3 audio problem

[Chris Meagher]

Hi  I have a strange problem with my K3/100.
The audio through the internal speaker is low, but comes up
much stronger with any slight movement of the volume knob.
Then it goes back down again, often accompanied by a brief
HI-CUR warning.
Also when AGC is turned off, audio is almost zero.

But, with the SP3 external speaker plugged in, the problem goes away!
Any insights much appreciated.

Chris
VK2ACD
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[Elecraft] K3 Audio Cutting Out

[Dean]

I have a K3 in the 3000 serial number range that I built from a kit originally. 
This last year the audio has been cutting out after playing at a high level for 
a while on the internal speaker.It gets kind of crispy sounding like you were 
wiggling a loose wire and the volume goes way down but then comes back up if 
you increase the volume knob a little bit. Just wiggling the volume knob makes 
no difference but when it cuts out it won't come back if you turn the volume 
down a little but it will come back if you turn the volume up a little. It just 
sounds real crispy then.I tried wiggling the speaker connections and it did not 
make a difference. Gently tapping on the radio or the internal boards does not 
duplicate the problem.Thank you in advance for your ideas and hopefully 
instructions to repair.Dean Kg7mz 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio from RS232 connection?

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 10:31 AM Bob KD7YZ  wrote:

> When I ran up WSJT-X and was attempting to connect, I noticed No Audio.
>
> How do I get digital audio? I gather it's NOT thru the KIO3b RJ-45 .
>

If the USB cable is disconnected from the K3S, the USB Sound Card (USB
Audio CODEC) will no longer be available.

You have to switch WJST-X to use the sound card in your PC.  And you
have to run two cables:

K3S LINE OUT to PC LINE IN (or MIC)
K3S LINE IN to PC LINE OUT (or SPKR/Headphones)

Adjust levels using the Windows level controls and CONFIG:LIN OUT and the
MIC GAIN knob (which adjust LINE IN level when MAIN:MIC SEL is set to LINE).

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio from RS232 connection?

[Bill Frantz]

You can use the line in/out connectors in the back of the radio 
and a "sound card" for your computer. USB sound cards are 
available inexpensively from Amazon. I have one for my KX3 which 
I think cost about $5.00. You may need to install a pad to lower 
the signal level between the line out on the radio and the Mic 
in on the sound card.


In an ideal world, you will get the the RJ-45 connector 
repaired, either locally with someone who can re-solder the 
surface mount connector or by getting it repaired by Elecraft.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 9/17/20 at 1:29 PM, kd...@denstarfarm.us (Bob KD7YZ) wrote:


So today I was reaching behind the K3. The board connector that Is/Was
the USB input, came out in my hand.

It came off the KiO3b board.

I was reading the paper that came with the KIO3b install and discovered
I can use the RJ-45. Which I did.

I currently am controlling the K3 with DxLab's 'Commander'. So the RS232
connection is fine.

When I ran up WSJT-X and was attempting to connect, I noticed No Audio.

The 'Commander' IS controlling the K3 and quite well. Just can't do FT8
or MSK144 Meteor-Scatter anymore.


How do I get digital audio? I gather it's NOT thru the KIO3b RJ-45 .
That flimsy connector was SMA soldered and that level I can't do .. or
wouldn't try anyway. Skill level deteriorated for that small stuff.


Any help on the audio?



Bill Frantz| Art is how we decorate space,
408-348-7900   | music is how we decorate time.
www.pwpconsult.com |  -Jean-Michel Basquiat

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[Elecraft] K3 Audio from RS232 connection?

[Bob KD7YZ]

So today I was reaching behind the K3. The board connector that Is/Was
the USB input, came out in my hand.

It came off the KiO3b board.

I was reading the paper that came with the KIO3b install and discovered
I can use the RJ-45. Which I did.

I currently am controlling the K3 with DxLab's 'Commander'. So the RS232
connection is fine.

When I ran up WSJT-X and was attempting to connect, I noticed No Audio.

The 'Commander' IS controlling the K3 and quite well. Just can't do FT8
or MSK144 Meteor-Scatter anymore.


How do I get digital audio? I gather it's NOT thru the KIO3b RJ-45 .
That flimsy connector was SMA soldered and that level I can't do .. or
wouldn't try anyway. Skill level deteriorated for that small stuff.


Any help on the audio?
-- 
73
Bob KD7YZ
AMSAT LM #901
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio Peaking Filter

[John Gibson]

Hi Bill,

Thank you for your query. My K3 has the 400 Hz CW roofing filter. Because of 
currently challenging conditions, I usually set my K3’s width control to 25 Hz. 
My preferred audio frequency is 600 Hz. 

Those were my K3’s settings when I tried to check into the Elecraft CW net last 
evening.

I engaged the APF after nothing else worked. Following N6KR’s recommendation, I 
used fine tuning (1-Hz steps). I tuned around slowly near the expected net 
frequency of 14.050 MHz and suddenly heard net control Kevin KD5ONS calling at 
14.05045 MHz. 

I recognized Kevin, as I often do, by the rhythm of his sending. He was loud! 
When I turned off the APF, he vanished.

I believe that tuning slowly in 1-Hz steps is the secret to making the APF 
work. 

I hope this helps.

73,

John, no8v



From: William Hammond 
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 12:55 PM
To: John Gibson
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio Peaking Filter


Hi John, that is fantastic!!  I have never experienced anything near what you 
describe with a K3s or my original updated K3 SN 00069.  I find that a very 
narrow 200 hz CW filter works best for me in those conditions you so apply 
described.  Tell me more, do you open up the filters to kHz?  Please describe 
how you set this please.  I have tried all prescriptions I have read on this 
reflector and had no joy with any of them..perhaps I need some schooling?

73, Bill-AK5X

> On Jun 22, 2020, at 11:27 AM, John Gibson  wrote:
>
> Each Sunday evening, I use my K3 #820 to try to check into Kevin’s 20m 
> Elecraft CW net. Kevin in Oregon is almost 1900 miles from me in Michigan, 
> and I succeed only because I have a modest tri-band beam antenna at 60 ft.
>
> Current propagation conditions make this especially challenging. Sometimes 
> Kevin is so buried in noise that I find him only because I can recognize the 
> rhythm of his sending.
>
> Last evening, conditions were poor. I tuned all around the net frequency and 
> could hear nothing of Kevin. Then I turned on my K3's Audio Peaking Filter 
> (APF), searched again, and found him, and he was loud! When I turned off the 
> APF, he vanished. I did check into the net.
>
> My K3's APF made all the difference between hearing Kevin and not finding 
> him. I am impressed that it worked so well. I thank Wayne N6KR for creating 
> this feature for the K3.
>
> 73,
>
> John, no8v
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio Peaking Filter

[Wayne Burdick]

We just added dual-passband APF to the K4. It's very effective at higher code 
speeds.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



> On Jun 22, 2020, at 10:51 AM, Roger D Johnson  wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately, the APF is too narrow for 160m with all the lightning noise.
> As I recall, we've been promised wider selectivity choice(s) but nothing ever
> happened.
> 
> 73, Roger
> 
> 
> On 6/22/2020 12:27 PM, John Gibson wrote:
>> Each Sunday evening, I use my K3 #820 to try to check into Kevin’s 20m 
>> Elecraft CW net. Kevin in Oregon is almost 1900 miles from me in Michigan, 
>> and I succeed only because I have a modest tri-band beam antenna at 60 ft.
>> 
>> Current propagation conditions make this especially challenging. Sometimes 
>> Kevin is so buried in noise that I find him only because I can recognize the 
>> rhythm of his sending.
>> 
>> Last evening, conditions were poor. I tuned all around the net frequency and 
>> could hear nothing of Kevin. Then I turned on my K3's Audio Peaking Filter 
>> (APF), searched again, and found him, and he was loud! When I turned off the 
>> APF, he vanished. I did check into the net.
>> 
>> My K3's APF made all the difference between hearing Kevin and not finding 
>> him. I am impressed that it worked so well. I thank Wayne N6KR for creating 
>> this feature for the K3.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> John, no8v
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio Peaking Filter

[Roger D Johnson]

Unfortunately, the APF is too narrow for 160m with all the lightning noise.
As I recall, we've been promised wider selectivity choice(s) but nothing ever
happened.

73, Roger


On 6/22/2020 12:27 PM, John Gibson wrote:

Each Sunday evening, I use my K3 #820 to try to check into Kevin’s 20m Elecraft 
CW net. Kevin in Oregon is almost 1900 miles from me in Michigan, and I succeed 
only because I have a modest tri-band beam antenna at 60 ft.

Current propagation conditions make this especially challenging. Sometimes 
Kevin is so buried in noise that I find him only because I can recognize the 
rhythm of his sending.

Last evening, conditions were poor. I tuned all around the net frequency and 
could hear nothing of Kevin. Then I turned on my K3's Audio Peaking Filter 
(APF), searched again, and found him, and he was loud! When I turned off the 
APF, he vanished. I did check into the net.

My K3's APF made all the difference between hearing Kevin and not finding him. 
I am impressed that it worked so well. I thank Wayne N6KR for creating this 
feature for the K3.

73,

John, no8v
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[Elecraft] K3 Audio Peaking Filter

[John Gibson]

Each Sunday evening, I use my K3 #820 to try to check into Kevin’s 20m Elecraft 
CW net. Kevin in Oregon is almost 1900 miles from me in Michigan, and I succeed 
only because I have a modest tri-band beam antenna at 60 ft.

Current propagation conditions make this especially challenging. Sometimes 
Kevin is so buried in noise that I find him only because I can recognize the 
rhythm of his sending. 

Last evening, conditions were poor. I tuned all around the net frequency and 
could hear nothing of Kevin. Then I turned on my K3's Audio Peaking Filter 
(APF), searched again, and found him, and he was loud! When I turned off the 
APF, he vanished. I did check into the net.

My K3's APF made all the difference between hearing Kevin and not finding him. 
I am impressed that it worked so well. I thank Wayne N6KR for creating this 
feature for the K3.

73,

John, no8v
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Brian Hunt]

Are you using external speakers? If so make sure they aren't plugged into the 
headphone rear jack instead. Those pesky jacks are right next to each other. 
Been there

73,
Brian, K0DTJ
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[David Olean]

In CONFIG,  set SPEAKER  to 1, then the next position SPKR+PH is set to 
OFF. That is how mine is set and it works just as you desire. I remember 
having similar problems. I hope I did not miss anything.


Dave K1WHS

On 3/27/2020 9:01 PM, w...@jetbroadband.com wrote:

Hello All,

  


Here's hoping someone will take pity on me. I am not getting any audio out
of my K3 when I remove the headphones from the front panel. The
CONFIG:SPRK+PH is set to "NO". When I set the parameter to "YES" and I have
the headphones plugged in then I get audio from both the headphones and the
speaker. When I unplugged the headphones, the speakers still have audio. I
use to have it set up that if the phones are plugged in, no speaker audio
and then speaker audio when the phones are removed, but things happen and I
do not know what it was. I tried loading a previous configuration but still
no joy.

  


Is there help out there? I have been fooling with this all afternoon and now
I am just at my wits end.

  


Best regards,

  


Jerry, W1IE

  


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Nr4c]

Check the setting for number of speakers. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Mar 27, 2020, at 5:03 PM, w...@jetbroadband.com wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> 
> 
> Here's hoping someone will take pity on me. I am not getting any audio out
> of my K3 when I remove the headphones from the front panel. The
> CONFIG:SPRK+PH is set to "NO". When I set the parameter to "YES" and I have
> the headphones plugged in then I get audio from both the headphones and the
> speaker. When I unplugged the headphones, the speakers still have audio. I
> use to have it set up that if the phones are plugged in, no speaker audio
> and then speaker audio when the phones are removed, but things happen and I
> do not know what it was. I tried loading a previous configuration but still
> no joy.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there help out there? I have been fooling with this all afternoon and now
> I am just at my wits end.
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Jerry, W1IE
> 
> 
> 
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[Elecraft] K3 Audio

[w1ie]

Hello All,

 

Here's hoping someone will take pity on me. I am not getting any audio out
of my K3 when I remove the headphones from the front panel. The
CONFIG:SPRK+PH is set to "NO". When I set the parameter to "YES" and I have
the headphones plugged in then I get audio from both the headphones and the
speaker. When I unplugged the headphones, the speakers still have audio. I
use to have it set up that if the phones are plugged in, no speaker audio
and then speaker audio when the phones are removed, but things happen and I
do not know what it was. I tried loading a previous configuration but still
no joy.

 

Is there help out there? I have been fooling with this all afternoon and now
I am just at my wits end.

 

Best regards,

 

Jerry, W1IE

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[David Olean]

I had the same problem on a older K3 that had gotten a lot of use.  I 
just ordered a new pot and got things running just fine again. It sure 
sounded like a mechanical problem, and I did not delve any deeper.


Dave K1WHS

On 12/19/2019 8:52 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote:
My K3 has the same issue.  It is a hardware issue since software 
control of the volume (HRD) does not cause any problems.


I've not taken the front panel off to see if the pots can be 'treated' 
with Deoxit yet.


73 es Merry Christmas,
Rick NK7I


On 12/19/2019 9:01 AM, Larry Boekeloo wrote:
I have a K3, serial #5278,  that's had an receive audio issue for 
almost as

long as I've owned it.

When I turn the AF gain nearly or completely counter clockwise, the 
audio
goes to full volume.  The only way to fix the problem, is to quickly 
turn

the AF gain back up and down a few times.  Many times, I'll want to turn
the audio all the way to answer the phone or talk to someone in the 
shack,

and the audio goes to full volume.

Many times, if I reload the DSP software, the issue goes away for a few
months.  I have the latest software loaded.

Anyone else have this problem?  Maybe the AF gain pot needs to be 
replaced?


Thanks.

Larry, KN8N
Kalamazoo, Michigan
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Bill Johnson]

You may need to upgrade the connectors.  The issue can be created by 
inconsistent contact and corruption of the firmware.  Reload and replace the 
connectors.

72 & 73,
Bill
K9YEQ
FT’er for K2, KX1, KX3, KXPA100,  KAT500, W2, etc. 

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of Rick Bates, NK7I
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2019 2:53 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

My K3 has the same issue.  It is a hardware issue since software control of the 
volume (HRD) does not cause any problems.

I've not taken the front panel off to see if the pots can be 'treated' 
with Deoxit yet.

73 es Merry Christmas,
Rick NK7I


On 12/19/2019 9:01 AM, Larry Boekeloo wrote:
> I have a K3, serial #5278,  that's had an receive audio issue for 
> almost as long as I've owned it.
>
> When I turn the AF gain nearly or completely counter clockwise, the 
> audio goes to full volume.  The only way to fix the problem, is to 
> quickly turn the AF gain back up and down a few times.  Many times, 
> I'll want to turn the audio all the way to answer the phone or talk to 
> someone in the shack, and the audio goes to full volume.
>
> Many times, if I reload the DSP software, the issue goes away for a 
> few months.  I have the latest software loaded.
>
> Anyone else have this problem?  Maybe the AF gain pot needs to be replaced?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Larry, KN8N
> Kalamazoo, Michigan
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Rick Bates, NK7I]

My K3 has the same issue.  It is a hardware issue since software control 
of the volume (HRD) does not cause any problems.


I've not taken the front panel off to see if the pots can be 'treated' 
with Deoxit yet.


73 es Merry Christmas,
Rick NK7I


On 12/19/2019 9:01 AM, Larry Boekeloo wrote:

I have a K3, serial #5278,  that's had an receive audio issue for almost as
long as I've owned it.

When I turn the AF gain nearly or completely counter clockwise, the audio
goes to full volume.  The only way to fix the problem, is to quickly turn
the AF gain back up and down a few times.  Many times, I'll want to turn
the audio all the way to answer the phone or talk to someone in the shack,
and the audio goes to full volume.

Many times, if I reload the DSP software, the issue goes away for a few
months.  I have the latest software loaded.

Anyone else have this problem?  Maybe the AF gain pot needs to be replaced?

Thanks.

Larry, KN8N
Kalamazoo, Michigan
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Keith Trinity WE6R]

Do a switch test, (Config menu, "SW TEST") you should get a smooth sweep 
of numbers, about 002 thr 236.


If erratic in spots, then the Pot could have been knocked in.
Pull Front Panel and look at the back of it, there are some tabs that 
hold it together and sometimes you can bend them tight and fix.
Look at the board going inside the pot from where the wires are 
soldered, could be cracked.
Also look to see that the extension wires coming up from the board to 
Pot are soldered good.

If all looks good, try tuner cleaner.
Otherwise replace; E520015

If the test numbers are _always_ good and smooth, then save your config, 
EE INIT (parameter initialization) and see if that fixed it.

If it fixed it, then load a known-good saved config file.
If EE INIT did not fix then you can re-load the file you just saved and 
look for anything else, like cracked traces or something touching those 
lines.

Keith WE6R



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[Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Larry Boekeloo]

I have a K3, serial #5278,  that's had an receive audio issue for almost as
long as I've owned it.

When I turn the AF gain nearly or completely counter clockwise, the audio
goes to full volume.  The only way to fix the problem, is to quickly turn
the AF gain back up and down a few times.  Many times, I'll want to turn
the audio all the way to answer the phone or talk to someone in the shack,
and the audio goes to full volume.

Many times, if I reload the DSP software, the issue goes away for a few
months.  I have the latest software loaded.

Anyone else have this problem?  Maybe the AF gain pot needs to be replaced?

Thanks.

Larry, KN8N
Kalamazoo, Michigan
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio balance feature - a modest proposal

[Raymond Sills via Elecraft]

Hi Group:
Don't forget, it's not difficult to feed the rig's audio output to a modest 
audio mixer (check a music store), which would easily permit you to 
independently adjust the audio levels of the feed to your headset or speakers.  
This could be made to work for a "mono" feed (single receiver) or a "stereo" 
feed (two receivers).
73 de RayK2ULRKX3 #211
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[Elecraft] K3 audio balance feature - a modest proposal

[Brian]

While I agree that the left-right audio balance feature would be nice to see in 
a basic K3 etc. as update etc. why not just build an outside box to accomplish 
that. Therefore it could be used on your legacy rigs as well. I could myself 
use a bit more in the Left side I think.
I already have such a thing as two blending pots in a box that was originally 
used in my CD Discman to send audio to my regular stereo amp.. two pots for two 
signals  to balance the sound for the uneven room acoustics (some High End amps 
- British, you say -  don't have a Balance control and I believe was the 
intent).

Over the winter I built an external audio CW filter that does WONDERS for older 
rigs  (not Elecraft... of course) .. makes them a lot better. I just tried it 
out on a HW-8 this morning and it totally changes the aspects of the rig. Makes 
my Drake TR-7 usable.. the old Drake CW filters either were not good to be 
begin with (in comparison to) or have aged to ringy/hollow sound. Who 
knows.. but the external CW audio filter (HiPerMite) is a game changer. This 
makes for a better situation and I did not have to go into the inner guts or 
workings of any rigs to achieve the 'update'.

So perhaps Wayne and Eric don't have to do all the work... sometimes we can 
change things for the better by implementing a little of our own soldering and 
building skills.
Now onto the New England SCAF that is almost finished and ready to test out in 
a cage match... HI.

Humbly submitted.

Brien VE3VAW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio issues

[John Simmons]

I thought about this... but it is s/n 59XX, newer than my first K3. 
Still I was wondering if it was a connector issue. BUT! Is there a 
reason that I have both symptoms at the same time?


-J


DC <mailto:vetteresto...@gmail.com>
Friday, March 15, 2019 9:42 PM
John;

Possibly this:

If it is a older K3, the contacts between the PC Board and the front 
panel can lose connectivity.  I have been successful cleaning with 
deoxit.  The materials are  dis-similar, There is a gold pin 
replacement to solve the problem.


73's

Richard

K6VV



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John Simmons <mailto:jasimm...@pinewooddata.com>
Friday, March 15, 2019 9:15 PM
Did that already. Any other suggestions?

-John NI0K


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Bill Johnson <mailto:k9...@live.com>
Friday, March 15, 2019 5:10 PM
Reload your firmware, hopefully you saved a copy. IF that doesn't 
work, let us know!


73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
 On Behalf Of John Simmons

Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 5:08 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 audio issues

I bought a second K3 (used) after being a happy owner with the first 
one for about 5 years.


The radio worked great for several weeks and I used it as a remote 
while on a 3 week vacation. Now I'm seeing some problems. Hopefully it 
is something that I have done wrong!


#1. When I press any button on the front panel (e.g. A/B, MODE, etc.) 
there is no beep.


#2. I cannot get the radio to transmit power in SSB using a known good 
mic into the front panel jack or using the line in on the rear panel.
Matching the menu settings to my first K3 does not provide joy. Using 
the rear panel mic input does work.


TIA and 73,
-John NI0K
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John Simmons <mailto:jasimm...@pinewooddata.com>
Friday, March 15, 2019 5:08 PM
I bought a second K3 (used) after being a happy owner with the first 
one for about 5 years.


The radio worked great for several weeks and I used it as a remote 
while on a 3 week vacation. Now I'm seeing some problems. Hopefully it 
is something that I have done wrong!


#1. When I press any button on the front panel (e.g. A/B, MODE, etc.) 
there is no beep.


#2. I cannot get the radio to transmit power in SSB using a known good 
mic into the front panel jack or using the line in on the rear panel. 
Matching the menu settings to my first K3 does not provide joy. Using 
the rear panel mic input does work.


TIA and 73,
-John NI0K
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio issues

[DC]

John;

Possibly this:

If it is a older K3, the contacts between the PC Board and the front 
panel can lose connectivity.  I have been successful cleaning with 
deoxit.  The materials are  dis-similar, There is a gold pin replacement 
to solve the problem.


73's

Richard

K6VV

On 3/15/2019 7:15 PM, John Simmons wrote:

Did that already. Any other suggestions?

-John NI0K


Bill Johnson <mailto:k9...@live.com>
Friday, March 15, 2019 5:10 PM
Reload your firmware, hopefully you saved a copy. IF that doesn't 
work, let us know!


73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
 On Behalf Of John Simmons

Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 5:08 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 audio issues

I bought a second K3 (used) after being a happy owner with the first 
one for about 5 years.


The radio worked great for several weeks and I used it as a remote 
while on a 3 week vacation. Now I'm seeing some problems. Hopefully 
it is something that I have done wrong!


#1. When I press any button on the front panel (e.g. A/B, MODE, etc.) 
there is no beep.


#2. I cannot get the radio to transmit power in SSB using a known 
good mic into the front panel jack or using the line in on the rear 
panel.
Matching the menu settings to my first K3 does not provide joy. Using 
the rear panel mic input does work.


TIA and 73,
-John NI0K
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John Simmons <mailto:jasimm...@pinewooddata.com>
Friday, March 15, 2019 5:08 PM
I bought a second K3 (used) after being a happy owner with the first 
one for about 5 years.


The radio worked great for several weeks and I used it as a remote 
while on a 3 week vacation. Now I'm seeing some problems. Hopefully 
it is something that I have done wrong!


#1. When I press any button on the front panel (e.g. A/B, MODE, etc.) 
there is no beep.


#2. I cannot get the radio to transmit power in SSB using a known 
good mic into the front panel jack or using the line in on the rear 
panel. Matching the menu settings to my first K3 does not provide 
joy. Using the rear panel mic input does work.


TIA and 73,
-John NI0K
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio issues

[Jim Brown]

There is a menu setting for #1.

For #2 -- VOX or PTT?  If VOX, is the VOX icon showing?  VOX Gain and 
Mic Gain may need adjustment.  Is Lin In selected when you're trying to 
use a mic? Check the settings for where the mic is plugged in (front or 
rear panel), and whether bias is turned on (if the mic is an electret).


73, Jim K9YC

On 3/15/2019 7:15 PM, John Simmons wrote:

Did that already. Any other suggestions?

-John NI0K


Bill Johnson <mailto:k9...@live.com>
Friday, March 15, 2019 5:10 PM
Reload your firmware, hopefully you saved a copy. IF that doesn't 
work, let us know!


73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
 On Behalf Of John Simmons

Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 5:08 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 audio issues

I bought a second K3 (used) after being a happy owner with the first 
one for about 5 years.


The radio worked great for several weeks and I used it as a remote 
while on a 3 week vacation. Now I'm seeing some problems. Hopefully 
it is something that I have done wrong!


#1. When I press any button on the front panel (e.g. A/B, MODE, etc.) 
there is no beep.


#2. I cannot get the radio to transmit power in SSB using a known 
good mic into the front panel jack or using the line in on the rear 
panel.
Matching the menu settings to my first K3 does not provide joy. Using 
the rear panel mic input does work.


TIA and 73,
-John NI0K
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John Simmons <mailto:jasimm...@pinewooddata.com>
Friday, March 15, 2019 5:08 PM
I bought a second K3 (used) after being a happy owner with the first 
one for about 5 years.


The radio worked great for several weeks and I used it as a remote 
while on a 3 week vacation. Now I'm seeing some problems. Hopefully 
it is something that I have done wrong!


#1. When I press any button on the front panel (e.g. A/B, MODE, etc.) 
there is no beep.


#2. I cannot get the radio to transmit power in SSB using a known 
good mic into the front panel jack or using the line in on the rear 
panel. Matching the menu settings to my first K3 does not provide 
joy. Using the rear panel mic input does work.


TIA and 73,
-John NI0K
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio issues

[John Simmons]

Did that already. Any other suggestions?

-John NI0K


Bill Johnson <mailto:k9...@live.com>
Friday, March 15, 2019 5:10 PM
Reload your firmware, hopefully you saved a copy. IF that doesn't 
work, let us know!


73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
 On Behalf Of John Simmons

Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 5:08 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 audio issues

I bought a second K3 (used) after being a happy owner with the first 
one for about 5 years.


The radio worked great for several weeks and I used it as a remote 
while on a 3 week vacation. Now I'm seeing some problems. Hopefully it 
is something that I have done wrong!


#1. When I press any button on the front panel (e.g. A/B, MODE, etc.) 
there is no beep.


#2. I cannot get the radio to transmit power in SSB using a known good 
mic into the front panel jack or using the line in on the rear panel.
Matching the menu settings to my first K3 does not provide joy. Using 
the rear panel mic input does work.


TIA and 73,
-John NI0K
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John Simmons <mailto:jasimm...@pinewooddata.com>
Friday, March 15, 2019 5:08 PM
I bought a second K3 (used) after being a happy owner with the first 
one for about 5 years.


The radio worked great for several weeks and I used it as a remote 
while on a 3 week vacation. Now I'm seeing some problems. Hopefully it 
is something that I have done wrong!


#1. When I press any button on the front panel (e.g. A/B, MODE, etc.) 
there is no beep.


#2. I cannot get the radio to transmit power in SSB using a known good 
mic into the front panel jack or using the line in on the rear panel. 
Matching the menu settings to my first K3 does not provide joy. Using 
the rear panel mic input does work.


TIA and 73,
-John NI0K
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio issues

[Bill Johnson]

Reload your firmware, hopefully you saved a copy.  IF that doesn't work, let us 
know!

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

https://wrj-tech.com/

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  On 
Behalf Of John Simmons
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 5:08 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 audio issues

I bought a second K3 (used) after being a happy owner with the first one for 
about 5 years.

The radio worked great for several weeks and I used it as a remote while on a 3 
week vacation. Now I'm seeing some problems. Hopefully it is something that I 
have done wrong!

#1. When I press any button on the front panel (e.g. A/B, MODE, etc.) there is 
no beep.

#2. I cannot get the radio to transmit power in SSB using a known good mic into 
the front panel jack or using the line in on the rear panel. 
Matching the menu settings to my first K3 does not provide joy. Using the rear 
panel mic input does work.

TIA and 73,
-John NI0K
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[Elecraft] K3 audio issues

[John Simmons]

I bought a second K3 (used) after being a happy owner with the first one 
for about 5 years.


The radio worked great for several weeks and I used it as a remote while 
on a 3 week vacation. Now I'm seeing some problems. Hopefully it is 
something that I have done wrong!


#1. When I press any button on the front panel (e.g. A/B, MODE, etc.) 
there is no beep.


#2. I cannot get the radio to transmit power in SSB using a known good 
mic into the front panel jack or using the line in on the rear panel. 
Matching the menu settings to my first K3 does not provide joy. Using 
the rear panel mic input does work.


TIA and 73,
-John NI0K
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[Elecraft] K3 audio problem

[Thomas Doligalski via Elecraft]

This weekend I suddenly began to have an oscillation problem in the speaker amp 
of my K3 (SN 969)) Headphones and the RX both work fine. I don’t hear the 
strange audio oscillation in the headphones), but the speaker amp appears to be 
having problems. If I turn on the speaker using SPKR+PH YES I don’t hear the RX 
audio in it (although the headphones continue to work.

Any clues how to proceed?

Thanks!

Tom, W4KX
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Wes Stewart]

I second that.  I have (had) a half dozen of these (one seems to have gone 
missing) to use on my K3 and K3S.  That said, I seldom use anything but 
headphones, unless a visitor is in the shack.


Wes  N7WS

On 9/4/2018 3:15 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
The K3 can sound really good if one uses external speakers on the K3/K3S.  If 
you do not have high quality (Hi-Fi) speakers that you can use with the 
K3/K3S, then the matching SP3 speakers are an excellent choice.


I was fortunate enough to pick up a pair of Radio Shack Minimus speakers at a 
2nd hand store for $5.00 each - they do very well in my shack. 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Don Wilhelm]

The K3 can sound really good if one uses external speakers on the 
K3/K3S.  If you do not have high quality (Hi-Fi) speakers that you can 
use with the K3/K3S, then the matching SP3 speakers are an excellent choice.


I was fortunate enough to pick up a pair of Radio Shack Minimus speakers 
at a 2nd hand store for $5.00 each - they do very well in my shack.


The speakers that will produce all the audio nuances that are possible 
are those with a wide range response, so Hi-Fi speakers qualify for that 
aspect.  Others with a restricted audio range such as those with DSP 
will limit the full range audio available from the K3/K3S.


In other words, the audio response of the radio should be clearly 
reproduced by the speakers.  The response by the small internal speaker 
is necessarily limited, but good wide range external speaker will 
deliver the sound that the radio is capable of.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/4/2018 5:46 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

Yes, well most of those are good sounding and..are larger than our radios 
on our desks today.  Small speakers can be expected to produce small sound. 
Small as in acoustic output and limited frequency response.   Just laws of 
Physics.  Don't expect to modify those laws.

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:44 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:

A number of years ago, I inherited an SX-28 and the big bass reflex speaker with the cut-out 
"h" in the center.  It gave new meaning to the term "armchair copy."

73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County


On 9/4/2018 6:50 AM, Bill wrote:
Don, you make me laugh. Internal speakers are a joke - never heard one, since 
the 50s when I got started in radio, worth listening to. Why they don't just 
leave it at a SPKR jack and a PHONES jack is beyond me.

Bill W2BLC - K-line



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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Yes, well most of those are good sounding and..are larger than our radios 
on our desks today.  Small speakers can be expected to produce small sound. 
Small as in acoustic output and limited frequency response.   Just laws of 
Physics.  Don't expect to modify those laws. 

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 4, 2018, at 12:44 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> A number of years ago, I inherited an SX-28 and the big bass reflex speaker 
> with the cut-out "h" in the center.  It gave new meaning to the term 
> "armchair copy."
> 
> 73,
> 
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
>> On 9/4/2018 6:50 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Don, you make me laugh. Internal speakers are a joke - never heard one, 
>> since the 50s when I got started in radio, worth listening to. Why they 
>> don't just leave it at a SPKR jack and a PHONES jack is beyond me.
>> 
>> Bill W2BLC - K-line
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Fred Jensen]

A number of years ago, I inherited an SX-28 and the big bass reflex 
speaker with the cut-out "h" in the center.  It gave new meaning to the 
term "armchair copy."


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/4/2018 6:50 AM, Bill wrote:
Don, you make me laugh. Internal speakers are a joke - never heard 
one, since the 50s when I got started in radio, worth listening to. 
Why they don't just leave it at a SPKR jack and a PHONES jack is 
beyond me.


Bill W2BLC - K-line



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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill,

Yes, I agree.  We had a phone station at Field Day where the operator 
used his own rig with an internal speaker (I think it was an Icom), and 
the sound was so grating to my ears that I thought about cutting his 
coax!  I don't know how the operator deciphered the calls and reports.

That is a "to be fixed" situation for next year's Field Day.

I was at the CW station where we used headphones with the internal 
speaker turned up only enough to let others nearby hear what was going 
on, and it sounded OK, but not great.  I should have brought my external 
speakers for the K3 CW station.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/4/2018 9:50 AM, Bill wrote:
Don, you make me laugh. Internal speakers are a joke - never heard one, 
since the 50s when I got started in radio, worth listening to. Why they 
don't just leave it at a SPKR jack and a PHONES jack is beyond me.


Bill W2BLC - K-line

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Bill]

Don, you make me laugh. Internal speakers are a joke - never heard one, 
since the 50s when I got started in radio, worth listening to. Why they 
don't just leave it at a SPKR jack and a PHONES jack is beyond me.


Bill W2BLC - K-line

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill,

Audio - If you are judging from the internal speaker, all I can say is 
"don't do that", the audio is not representative of what the K3 can do. 
Either use headphones or good quality external speakers for a good audio 
sound from the K3.


The K3 to K3S options will not improve the K3 audio.  The new synths 
will improve the RX and TX phase noise (and usable sensitivity) 
considerably, and the KXV3B will improve the preamp selection on the 
higher bands.  The KIO3B is more of an operating convenience IMHO by 
virtue of its internal USB to USB converter and the internal soundcard. 
Worthy of adding if you do not have RS-232 ports on your computer.


If your operation is mainly casual, you will not notice the difference, 
but if you are into contesting and DXing, the ability to "saddle up" to 
a strong station close to your operating frequency will be quite noticeable.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/3/2018 2:46 PM, Bill wrote:
In the real world, is that "theoretical" improvement noticeable? The 
improvement I am looking for is significant - not small or incremental. 
Perhaps it is more than the K3 can provide?

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Jim Brown]

My uses are pretty similar to Josh's. As soon as they were available,I 
added the new synth boards, and the KXVB board to get the better preamp 
to my early (2008) K3s . Like Josh, I have several good USB audio 
interfaces, including a Tascam US100 and Numark Stereo I/O.


73, Jim K9YC

On 9/3/2018 1:36 PM, Josh Fiden wrote:

Embedded comments. I'm a contester & weak signal VHF exclusively. YMMV

Sent from my mobile device


On Sep 3, 2018, at 1:08 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

Don't shortchange yourself by looking at only 1 or 2 parameters.

Here's the list.  Some items can be upgraded in a K3 to make it almost to the 
level of a K3S.


** Ultra low-noise synthesizer for exceptional strong-signal receive 
performance and transmit signal purity (KSYN3A)

Agree, have the upgrade.

** USB port–integrates remote control and line-level audio, eliminating the 
need for a PC sound card and audio cables

Don't care, no performance improvement.

** Second preamp for 12-6 m weak signal work (on included KXV3B module)

Have outboard preamp. No performance improvement from what I have, yes? If I 
wanted to improve on this I'd get a better outboard preamp or use something 
mast mounted for 6m. However, already running fairly short 1-1/4 Heliax so 
minimal improvement doesn't justify the complexity.

** Multiple attenuators, providing steps of -5/-10/-15 dB

You got me here. Stock single setting attenuator seems fine, but maybe I'd love 
having 3 steps on HF?

** Enhanced look and feel, with new LCD bezel, soft-touch VFO knob

Function over form for me! Decidedly don't care!!

** Lower-Loss ATU option with true bypass relay (KAT3A)

The only time I've used internal ATU is at Field Day. Running LP I use KAT500 
since it has my antennas memorized. Plus another outboard tuner for legal 
limit. Am I missing anything?

** Redesigned AF output circuitry for outstanding speaker audio

As noted only use the speaker for beeps (JT, RTTY, ..).

** Accurate, high-speed CW transmit even in SPLIT mode

I thought this came with the new synthesizer? Am I missing something here? High 
speed CW for me is low 30s ;)

** Coverage of the 630-meter band (~470 kHz), and lower1

I'm more a VHF guy than VLF, hi. Isn't this available with new synth? Are there 
any 630m contests?

73
Josh





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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Josh Fiden]

Embedded comments. I'm a contester & weak signal VHF exclusively. YMMV

Sent from my mobile device

> On Sep 3, 2018, at 1:08 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> Don't shortchange yourself by looking at only 1 or 2 parameters.
> 
> Here's the list.  Some items can be upgraded in a K3 to make it almost to the 
> level of a K3S.
> 
> 
> ** Ultra low-noise synthesizer for exceptional strong-signal receive 
> performance and transmit signal purity (KSYN3A)
Agree, have the upgrade. 
> 
> ** USB port–integrates remote control and line-level audio, eliminating the 
> need for a PC sound card and audio cables
Don't care, no performance improvement. 
> 
> ** Second preamp for 12-6 m weak signal work (on included KXV3B module)
Have outboard preamp. No performance improvement from what I have, yes? If I 
wanted to improve on this I'd get a better outboard preamp or use something 
mast mounted for 6m. However, already running fairly short 1-1/4 Heliax so 
minimal improvement doesn't justify the complexity. 
> 
> ** Multiple attenuators, providing steps of -5/-10/-15 dB
You got me here. Stock single setting attenuator seems fine, but maybe I'd love 
having 3 steps on HF?
> 
> ** Enhanced look and feel, with new LCD bezel, soft-touch VFO knob
Function over form for me! Decidedly don't care!!
> 
> ** Lower-Loss ATU option with true bypass relay (KAT3A)
The only time I've used internal ATU is at Field Day. Running LP I use KAT500 
since it has my antennas memorized. Plus another outboard tuner for legal 
limit. Am I missing anything?
> 
> ** Redesigned AF output circuitry for outstanding speaker audio
As noted only use the speaker for beeps (JT, RTTY, ..). 
> 
> ** Accurate, high-speed CW transmit even in SPLIT mode
I thought this came with the new synthesizer? Am I missing something here? High 
speed CW for me is low 30s ;) 
> 
> ** Coverage of the 630-meter band (~470 kHz), and lower1
I'm more a VHF guy than VLF, hi. Isn't this available with new synth? Are there 
any 630m contests? 

73
Josh


> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Don't shortchange yourself by looking at only 1 or 2 parameters.

Here's the list.  Some items can be upgraded in a K3 to make it almost 
to the level of a K3S.



** Ultra low-noise synthesizer for exceptional strong-signal receive 
performance and transmit signal purity (KSYN3A)


** USB port–integrates remote control and line-level audio, eliminating 
the need for a PC sound card and audio cables


** Second preamp for 12-6 m weak signal work (on included KXV3B module)

** Multiple attenuators, providing steps of -5/-10/-15 dB

** Enhanced look and feel, with new LCD bezel, soft-touch VFO knob

** Lower-Loss ATU option with true bypass relay (KAT3A)

** Redesigned AF output circuitry for outstanding speaker audio

** Accurate, high-speed CW transmit even in SPLIT mode

** Coverage of the 630-meter band (~470 kHz), and lower1


Yes, I'm convinced there is a difference.


73
Bob, K4TAX


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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Grant Youngman]

Feed the line-out into a P-P 6V6 amp (e.g., Eico HF-20, Heath A-9x, an old 6V6 
PA amp, etc.) and into a pair (or one if your’e not using both output channels) 
of bass reflex speakers or AR-somethings.  

I did that with a string of pre-K3 “modern” radios (and quite a few vintage 
radios with puny audio output), including the K3 for a while, before a major 
downsizing of stuff.  Worked and played great.  Now I just use a pair of 
E’craft SP-3s on my K3, which work fine .. and are a lot easier to move around 
:-)  I have no complaints about K3 audio.

Since the days of big 6V6 audio in vintage gear (think SX-28, NC-183D, etc), 
radio vendors have mostly paid attention to everything but audio stage quality. 
 Maybe the new output stage in the K3S makes a big difference .. not owning 
one, (unfortunately, E’craft didn't make the new main board available for 
upgrade) I couldn’t say.  But if you pick the audio up at line-out and amplify 
it with a decent amp and good speakers, you won’t be disappointed with the 
result.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091 KX3 #8342

> On Sep 3, 2018, at 2:46 PM, Bill  wrote:
> 
> In the real world, is that "theoretical" improvement noticeable? The 
> improvement I am looking for is significant - not small or incremental. 
> Perhaps it is more than the K3 can provide?
> 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Josh Fiden]

I have the new synth boards, since that was clearly worthwhile. Already have 
outboard preamp & don't care about USB since at this point seems like I've 
accumulated a herd of USB/RS232 converters that work fine, plus Tascam audio 
interface. 

I'll have to check DSP board rev. Was there a specific serial number for that 
changeover?

Thanks for the info!

73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On Sep 3, 2018, at 8:40 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Josh,
> 
> Yes, the K3S has some improvement to the audio in that there is an extra gain 
> stage that distributes the audio gain a bit better.  I do not consider it 
> worthwhile for my K3 - the DSP board would have to be replaced.  There was a 
> change to the K3 DSP board much earlier that added a low pass filter as well 
> as lower frequency audio response to the original K3 audio.  For a time, 
> there wa a DSP board swap program to upgrade the DSP board, but that has now 
> been retired, but you can still purchase the low pass filter add-on.  If you 
> have the Rev D DSP board, it is already installed.
> 
> The new synthesizer will get you the most "bang for the buck" improvement in 
> the K3 RF performance, and the new KXV3B adds the 20 dB preamp for 17 meters 
> and above.  The KIO3B can add the USB interface rather than the RS-232 as 
> well as an internal soundcard.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Josh Fiden]

The only thing I use the speaker for is monitoring digital modes where as long 
as I hear beeps, it's all good :)

My operating on CW & phone is exclusively headphones. So, if the improvement is 
exclusive to driving low impedance loads at higher power, doesn't matter. 

73
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On Sep 3, 2018, at 8:48 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:
> 
> Here is a link to the K3S as originally announced.   Note that it has; " 
> Redesigned AF output circuitry for outstanding speaker audio" among other 
> added items.
> 
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/k3s%20data%20sheet_Rev_A2%20.pdf
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> 
>> On 9/3/2018 9:56 AM, Josh Fiden wrote:
>> I have two original K3. Wondering if I missed something. The "S" has 
>> improvements to receive audio? Or is this just referring to the new 
>> synthesizer?
>> 
>> Thanks & 73,
>> Josh W6XU
>> 
>> Sent from my mobile device
>> 
>>> On Sep 3, 2018, at 7:24 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX
>>> Then came along the K3S with its advertised improvements.  Namely in 
>>> receive audio.
>> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Personally having used two different K3 radios and then my K3S, the 
difference was enough for me to buy a new K3S.  Small or 
incrementalnah, very noticeable specially coming from someone 
{me} who worked in professional audio and recording studio environment 
most of my career.  Of course you may have other objectives.   Operator 
skill and correctly setting up the radio parameters is a major key to 
ones overall success and satisfaction.   In fact, one can adjust the 
various parameters where the radio sounds and performs poorly.  That's 
not the radio's fault.


 I'll say the overall performance enhancements and difference is indeed 
a complication of improvements, not just solely the audio.


With a compilation of older and newer radios,  a IC-756pro II, a 
TS-590S, and an Orion at my disposal, they don't stand anywhere near the 
performance and overall signal quality of the K3S.   As to whistles and 
bells offered by the others.toot toot and ding-a-ling.  They 
don't impress me.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 9/3/2018 1:46 PM, Bill wrote:
In the real world, is that "theoretical" improvement noticeable? The 
improvement I am looking for is significant - not small or 
incremental. Perhaps it is more than the K3 can provide?


Bill W2BLC K-Line


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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Bill]

In the real world, is that "theoretical" improvement noticeable? The 
improvement I am looking for is significant - not small or incremental. 
Perhaps it is more than the K3 can provide?


Bill W2BLC K-Line


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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[RIchard Williams via Elecraft]

Josh,
Theoretically, the answer is yes.  From the FAQ blurb on the Elecraft site: 
"Redesigned speakeramplifier -  Stereo speaker outputs now have lower total 
harmonic distortion(THD) for reduced listening fatigue".
Dick, K8ZTT
     On Monday, September 3, 2018, 8:56:45 AM MDT, Josh Fiden 
 wrote:  
 
 I have two original K3. Wondering if I missed something. The "S" has 
improvements to receive audio? Or is this just referring to the new synthesizer?

Thanks & 73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On Sep 3, 2018, at 7:24 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX 

> Then came along the K3S with its advertised improvements.  Namely in receive 
> audio.  

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Don,

I have some P3 displays of what happens when two stations upgrade to the 
new Synthesizers at:


https://www.nk7z.net/

Just select the top blog entry.  There are some P3 graphs there showing 
just how much improvement the new synthesizers actually add.  Two of us 
upgraded, and we did it in stages, I managed to document most of the 
changes in steps, showing the RX station, then the TX stations, etc.  It 
was all quite interesting, and a big improvement as the numbers show.


73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z/NNR0DC)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Technical Specialist

On 09/03/2018 08:40 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
The new synthesizer will get you the most "bang for the buck" 
improvement in the K3 RF performance



73,
Don W3FPR

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Here is a link to the K3S as originally announced.   Note that it has; " 
Redesigned AF output circuitry for outstanding speaker audio" among 
other added items.


http://www.elecraft.com/manual/k3s%20data%20sheet_Rev_A2%20.pdf

73

Bob, K4TAX


On 9/3/2018 9:56 AM, Josh Fiden wrote:

I have two original K3. Wondering if I missed something. The "S" has 
improvements to receive audio? Or is this just referring to the new synthesizer?

Thanks & 73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device


On Sep 3, 2018, at 7:24 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX
Then came along the K3S with its advertised improvements.  Namely in receive 
audio.





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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Don Wilhelm]

Josh,

Yes, the K3S has some improvement to the audio in that there is an extra 
gain stage that distributes the audio gain a bit better.  I do not 
consider it worthwhile for my K3 - the DSP board would have to be 
replaced.  There was a change to the K3 DSP board much earlier that 
added a low pass filter as well as lower frequency audio response to the 
original K3 audio.  For a time, there wa a DSP board swap program to 
upgrade the DSP board, but that has now been retired, but you can still 
purchase the low pass filter add-on.  If you have the Rev D DSP board, 
it is already installed.


The new synthesizer will get you the most "bang for the buck" 
improvement in the K3 RF performance, and the new KXV3B adds the 20 dB 
preamp for 17 meters and above.  The KIO3B can add the USB interface 
rather than the RS-232 as well as an internal soundcard.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/3/2018 10:56 AM, Josh Fiden wrote:

I have two original K3. Wondering if I missed something. The "S" has 
improvements to receive audio? Or is this just referring to the new synthesizer?


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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Josh Fiden]

I have two original K3. Wondering if I missed something. The "S" has 
improvements to receive audio? Or is this just referring to the new synthesizer?

Thanks & 73,
Josh W6XU

Sent from my mobile device

> On Sep 3, 2018, at 7:24 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX 

> Then came along the K3S with its advertised improvements.  Namely in receive 
> audio.  

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I had assembled two K3 radios for friends that didn't believe they were 
competent to do so.  In doing this, I was able to use these radios for a 
few weeks.   I noted some artifacts regarding the receive audio and 
elected not to purchase one for my station at that time.


Then came along the K3S with its advertised improvements.  Namely in 
receive audio.  I opted to purchase one and I am totally delighted that 
I waited.  The RX audio performance is outstanding in all respects.   I 
know this is not the answer you wanted to read.   However, Don, W3FPR 
has an excellent paper on his site that details adjustments regarding 
the K3 and its "noisy audio". Without a doubt, a correctly configured 
radio will offer outstanding performance.


My 55 year ham history comes from a long line of Tentec, Kenwood, ICOM, 
and Yaesu radios.   Needless to say,  I find the K3S is superior to 
anything I've had access to use.


73

Bob, K4TAX



On 9/3/2018 8:48 AM, Bill wrote:
I have been using my K3/P3 since new in early 2013. Initially, I had a 
devil of a time getting the RX audio to sound pleasing. Understand - 
that is pleasing to me. There was always a high percentage of 
background white noise.


Eventually, after a lot of experimentation, I settled on various EQ, 
AGC, ATT, RF Gain etc. All this was to make it comfortable for 
long-term armchair copy on 40, 75, and 160 meters. I also bought a 
pair of Behringer MS40 speakers to improve things.  All told, I was 
relatively pleased with the results - - - until.. I bought an Icom 
7300.


The 7300 is quiet. Nearly zero background noise - signals just jump 
out. During the daytime it is close to that of 2-meter FM. Understand 
that my QTH has nearly zero noise.


Where am I going with this? Simple - I am looking for suggestions on 
eliminating the K3's white noise problem. Please do not email, as I am 
sure I am not the only K3 user similarly interested. Sharing would be 
great.


Thanks,

Bill W2BLC K-Line


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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Don Wilhelm]

Bill,

The AGC Threshold has a lot to do with it.  Check out the "Noisy K3" 
article on my website www.w3fpr.com.  Set it to suit the noise at your 
QTH, there is no 'one size to fit all'.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/3/2018 9:48 AM, Bill wrote:
I have been using my K3/P3 since new in early 2013. Initially, I had a 
devil of a time getting the RX audio to sound pleasing. Understand - 
that is pleasing to me. There was always a high percentage of background 
white noise.


Eventually, after a lot of experimentation, I settled on various EQ, 
AGC, ATT, RF Gain etc. All this was to make it comfortable for long-term 
armchair copy on 40, 75, and 160 meters. I also bought a pair of 
Behringer MS40 speakers to improve things.  All told, I was relatively 
pleased with the results - - - until.. I bought an Icom 7300.


The 7300 is quiet. Nearly zero background noise - signals just jump out. 
During the daytime it is close to that of 2-meter FM. Understand that my 
QTH has nearly zero noise.


Where am I going with this? Simple - I am looking for suggestions on 
eliminating the K3's white noise problem. Please do not email, as I am 
sure I am not the only K3 user similarly interested. Sharing would be 
great.


Thanks,

Bill W2BLC K-Line


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[Elecraft] K3: Audio settings

[Bill]

I have been using my K3/P3 since new in early 2013. Initially, I had a 
devil of a time getting the RX audio to sound pleasing. Understand - 
that is pleasing to me. There was always a high percentage of background 
white noise.


Eventually, after a lot of experimentation, I settled on various EQ, 
AGC, ATT, RF Gain etc. All this was to make it comfortable for long-term 
armchair copy on 40, 75, and 160 meters. I also bought a pair of 
Behringer MS40 speakers to improve things.  All told, I was relatively 
pleased with the results - - - until.. I bought an Icom 7300.


The 7300 is quiet. Nearly zero background noise - signals just jump out. 
During the daytime it is close to that of 2-meter FM. Understand that my 
QTH has nearly zero noise.


Where am I going with this? Simple - I am looking for suggestions on 
eliminating the K3's white noise problem. Please do not email, as I am 
sure I am not the only K3 user similarly interested. Sharing would be great.


Thanks,

Bill W2BLC K-Line


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[Bill Frantz]

Bob is right about cables, but things like USB hubs also need to 
be considered. When I transmitted at more than 100W on certain 
bands, my 7 port USB hub would lock up and need to be power 
cycled. It has a plastic case, so I got a metal box to house it, 
and a ferrite clamp on choke for each USB cable coming into it. 
I stuffed all of them into the box, bonded the case to the shack 
bonding system, and haven't had a problem since.


(The hub supports my external keyboard, mouse, backup drive the 
K3, and a cable for syncing/charging my cell phone.)


On 4/5/18 at 7:41 AM, rmcg...@blomand.net (Bob McGraw K4TAX) wrote:

Yes both channels supported.    Regarding USB cables, the 
standard A Male to B Male is the configuration.  Be sure to 
look for and get good quality cables which do have a 
shield.   This will mitigate many RFI issues associated with 
the cable picking up RF and allowing it to get into the 
computer.    Of course a couple of turns through a ferrite 
donut on the cable will also help.


73

Bob, K4TAX


---
Bill Frantz| Ham radio contesting is a| Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | contact sport.   | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |  - Ken Widelitz K6LA / VY2TT | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

David:

Yes both channels supported.    Regarding USB cables, the standard A 
Male to B Male is the configuration.  Be sure to look for and get good 
quality cables which do have a shield.   This will mitigate many RFI 
issues associated with the cable picking up RF and allowing it to get 
into the computer.    Of course a couple of turns through a ferrite 
donut on the cable will also help.


73

Bob, K4TAX


On 4/5/2018 6:57 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
Bob, does the USB unit (part number escapes me) provide 2 channels on 
the Codex for dual receivers?


73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108)



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[Ed W0YK]

Well, as Rich replied, AFSK, and other digital audio modes, can be done with 
only the USB cable.  Sometimes people use the terms FSK and AFSK 
non-specifically to mean "RTTY".
73,Ed W0YK
 Original message From: j...@kk9a.com Date: 4/5/18  7:07 AM  
(GMT-08:00) To: Ed W0YK <e...@w0yk.com> Cc: Elecraft Reflector 
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables 
That is what I thought. I am using an interface however some of these posts 
lead me to believe that it was not necessary.
John KK9A  
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy 7 edge, an AT 4G LTE smartphone.


On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 10:04 AM, Ed W0YK <e...@w0yk.com> wrote:
No.  A FSK/PTT keying interface is needed between PC and K3 ACC connector. 
73,Ed W0YK
 Original message From: j...@kk9a.com Date: 4/5/18  4:31 AM  
(GMT-08:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft]  K3 audio line 
in/out cables 
Can you do FSK with only a USB connection between your computer and K3?

John KK9A




> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:20:02 -0400
> From: "N2TK, Tony"


>
> I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
> can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.
>
> I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I
plan
> on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I still
> need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
> something.
>
> 73,
>
> N2TK, Tony


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[j...@kk9a.com]

That is what I thought. I am using an interface however some of these posts
lead me to believe that it was not necessary.

John KK9A

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy 7 edge, an AT 4G LTE smartphone.

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 10:04 AM, Ed W0YK <e...@w0yk.com> wrote:

> No.  A FSK/PTT keying interface is needed between PC and K3 ACC connector.
>
> 73,
> Ed W0YK
>
>  Original message 
> From: j...@kk9a.com
> Date: 4/5/18 4:31 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft]  K3 audio line in/out cables
>
> Can you do FSK with only a USB connection between your computer and K3?
>
> John KK9A
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:20:02 -0400
> > From: "N2TK, Tony"
>
>
> >
> > I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
> > can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.
> >
> > I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I
> plan
> > on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I
> still
> > need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
> > something.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > N2TK, Tony
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[Ed W0YK]

No.  A FSK/PTT keying interface is needed between PC and K3 ACC connector. 
73,Ed W0YK
 Original message From: j...@kk9a.com Date: 4/5/18  4:31 AM  
(GMT-08:00) To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft]  K3 audio line 
in/out cables 
Can you do FSK with only a USB connection between your computer and K3?

John KK9A




> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:20:02 -0400
> From: "N2TK, Tony"


>
> I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
> can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.
>
> I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I
plan
> on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I still
> need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
> something.
>
> 73,
>
> N2TK, Tony


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[David Ferrington, M0XDF]

Thank you Don - bang on as usual (both you and Elecraft :-)
73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108)
We're here to put a dent in the universe. -Steve Jobs, entrepreneur and 
inventor (1955-2011)

> On 5 Apr 2018, at 13:26, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> Yes, both channels are present.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 4/5/2018 7:57 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
>> Bob, does the USB unit (part number escapes me) provide 2 channels on the 
>> Codex for dual receivers?

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[Rich]

You cannot do FSK only AFSK

Rich


On 4/5/2018 7:31 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

Can you do FSK with only a USB connection between your computer and K3?

John KK9A





Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:20:02 -0400
From: "N2TK, Tony"



I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.

I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I

plan

on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I still
need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
something.

73,

N2TK, Tony


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[Don Wilhelm]

David,

Yes, both channels are present.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/5/2018 7:57 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:

Bob, does the USB unit (part number escapes me) provide 2 channels on the Codex 
for dual receivers?


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[Don Wilhelm]

John,

Yes, use AFSK A.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/5/2018 7:31 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

Can you do FSK with only a USB connection between your computer and K3?


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[David Ferrington, M0XDF]

Bob, does the USB unit (part number escapes me) provide 2 channels on the Codex 
for dual receivers?

73 de David, M0XDF (K3 #174, P3 #108)

We are like tenant farmers chopping down the fence around our house for fuel 
when we should be using Nature's inexhaustible sources of energy -- sun, wind 
and tide. ... I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of 
power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle 
that. -Thomas Edison, inventor (1847-1931) 

> On 5 Apr 2018, at 03:17, Bob McGraw K4TAX <rmcg...@blomand.net> wrote:
> 
> Tony:
> 
> Only need one USB cable  between the radio and computer.  Audio TO/FROM and 
> CAT commands are handled over one cable.  Works great!   If you plug anything 
> into the rear Line, it will disconnect the audio via the USB cable.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> K3S  s/n 10163
> 
> 
> 
> On 4/4/2018 8:17 AM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:20:02 -0400
>> From: "N2TK, Tony"<tony@verizon.net>
>> To:<Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 audio  line in/out cables
>> Message-ID:<016601d3cb67$9eb505d0$dc1f1170$@verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
>> can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.
>> 
>> I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I plan
>> on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I still
>> need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
>> something.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> N2TK, Tony
> 
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[Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[j...@kk9a.com]

Can you do FSK with only a USB connection between your computer and K3?

John KK9A




> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:20:02 -0400
> From: "N2TK, Tony"


>
> I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
> can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.
>
> I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I
plan
> on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I still
> need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
> something.
>
> 73,
>
> N2TK, Tony


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[N2TK, Tony]

Thx Bob
N2TK, Tony

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 4, 2018, at 10:17 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <rmcg...@blomand.net> wrote:
> 
> Tony:
> 
> Only need one USB cable  between the radio and computer.  Audio TO/FROM and 
> CAT commands are handled over one cable.  Works great!   If you plug anything 
> into the rear Line, it will disconnect the audio via the USB cable.
> 
> 73
> 
> Bob, K4TAX
> 
> K3S  s/n 10163
> 
> 
> 
>> On 4/4/2018 8:17 AM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:20:02 -0400
>> From: "N2TK, Tony"<tony@verizon.net>
>> To:<Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 audio  line in/out cables
>> Message-ID:<016601d3cb67$9eb505d0$dc1f1170$@verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
>> can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.
>> 
>> I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I plan
>> on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I still
>> need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
>> something.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> N2TK, Tony
> 
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[Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Tony:

Only need one USB cable  between the radio and computer.  Audio TO/FROM 
and CAT commands are handled over one cable.  Works great!   If you plug 
anything into the rear Line, it will disconnect the audio via the USB 
cable.


73

Bob, K4TAX

K3S  s/n 10163



On 4/4/2018 8:17 AM, elecraft-requ...@mailman.qth.net wrote:

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 12:20:02 -0400
From: "N2TK, Tony"<tony@verizon.net>
To:<Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 audio  line in/out cables
Message-ID:<016601d3cb67$9eb505d0$dc1f1170$@verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.

I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I plan
on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I still
need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
something.

73,

N2TK, Tony


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[Nr4c]

No need for LINE cables if you have the updated USB KIO3 system. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Apr 3, 2018, at 3:09 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> Tony,
> 
> You might want to use LINE IN for computer generated voice or something like 
> that.
> Be aware that if you plug anything into the LINE IN jack, the K3 will turn 
> off the audio output (but not input) of the USB AUDIO CODEC.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
>> On 4/3/2018 12:20 PM, N2TK, Tony wrote:
>> I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
>> can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.
>> I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I plan
>> on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I still
>> need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
>> something.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[N2TK, Tony]

Tnx Don for the info.
N2tK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 3:10 PM
To: N2TK, Tony <tony@verizon.net>; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

Tony,

You might want to use LINE IN for computer generated voice or something like 
that.
Be aware that if you plug anything into the LINE IN jack, the K3 will turn off 
the audio output (but not input) of the USB AUDIO CODEC.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/3/2018 12:20 PM, N2TK, Tony wrote:
> I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best 
> I can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.
> 
> I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. 
> I plan on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any 
> reason I still need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am 
> not missing something.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[Don Wilhelm]

Tony,

You might want to use LINE IN for computer generated voice or something 
like that.
Be aware that if you plug anything into the LINE IN jack, the K3 will 
turn off the audio output (but not input) of the USB AUDIO CODEC.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/3/2018 12:20 PM, N2TK, Tony wrote:

I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.

I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I plan
on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I still
need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
something.

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[Elecraft] K3 audio line in/out cables

[N2TK, Tony]

I have upgraded both of my K3's to make them as close to a K3S as best I
can. Presently cleaning up the rats nest of cables. I am using USB.

I no longer use the Line IN and OUT jacks.  Presently only using FSK. I plan
on adding FT8 shortly. With the on board CODECs is there any reason I still
need the LINE cables? Want to check to makes sure I am not missing
something.

73,

N2TK, Tony

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[GRANT YOUNGMAN]

Sure.  But you really need more information about the questioner's intended 
usage before bashing the idea of MIC+LIN.  My K3 is always set up for Mic+Lin.  
Sometimes I use the output from a 528e with another mic.  Sometimes I use my 
CM500 connected to mic in.  Either the 528e is OFF when the CM500 is plugged 
into the front panel, or the CM500 is unplugged.  I can change between the two 
without fiddling with menus.  The sky has not fallen .. :-)

I certainly agree with Joe on this point.   I hear many voice / 
background noise signals in the "CW" portions of the bands. Furthermore, 
fact is, it isn't legal to transmit such. 
  suppose if one wishes to run Slow Scan TV with audio in the SSB 
portion of the band it might be justified.  Otherwise, I still say it is 
a terrible idea. 



Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio input went away.

[Nr4c]

Check the manual and verify mic settings in Menu. For an electret Mic you 
should see “rpl bias”. For dynamic prob “rph “. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Nov 27, 2017, at 5:27 AM, Ron Fial  wrote:
> 
> 
> My K3 rear panel Mike input signal input suddenly went away. It had worked 
> fine for several years.I key the PTT and speak but no indication of audio 
> input.  The K3 receives normally on main and sub rcvrs.   It can transmit SSB 
> fine using the stored audio buttons.  Tune control works. Auto tuner works. 
> Everything else is normal.  
> 
> My  K3 audio input is from a Plantronics mike to the Mic jack in the REAR 
> panel.  In the menu or config,  rear panel Mic input is selected including 
> the FET Bias.  Front panel mike volume pot is set OK, usually at 12.  The 
> Plantronics Microphone tests fine on other equipment that has bias voltage, 
> nice audio output at normal levels.  
> 
> Before this happened, I was adjusting some other menu settings.  I don't 
> currently have a mike for the front panel, so can't test that input yet.  
> (Need to order a new MH2 from Elecraft, no other Kenwood mike available at 
> the moment.).  I cannot figure out what I did to make the rear Mic audio 
> input stop working.  Think its unlikely a transistor or op-amp just decided 
> to die.   Suspect I accidentally changed something in the menu or config 
> system.  Before I start taking things apart and hook up the o'scope and spend 
> gobs of time with the schematics, does anyone have any suggestions for what 
> menu disaster I may have caused?
> 
> (I recall that Menu and Config has bitten me before)
> 
> 73, Ron. KO7V
> 
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[Elecraft] K3 audio input went away.

[Ron Fial]

My K3 rear panel Mike input signal input suddenly went away. It had worked fine 
for several years.I key the PTT and speak but no indication of audio input. 
 The K3 receives normally on main and sub rcvrs.   It can transmit SSB fine 
using the stored audio buttons.  Tune control works. Auto tuner works. 
Everything else is normal.  

My  K3 audio input is from a Plantronics mike to the Mic jack in the REAR 
panel.  In the menu or config,  rear panel Mic input is selected including the 
FET Bias.  Front panel mike volume pot is set OK, usually at 12.  The 
Plantronics Microphone tests fine on other equipment that has bias voltage, 
nice audio output at normal levels.  

Before this happened, I was adjusting some other menu settings.  I don't 
currently have a mike for the front panel, so can't test that input yet.  (Need 
to order a new MH2 from Elecraft, no other Kenwood mike available at the 
moment.).  I cannot figure out what I did to make the rear Mic audio input stop 
working.  Think its unlikely a transistor or op-amp just decided to die.   
Suspect I accidentally changed something in the menu or config system.  Before 
I start taking things apart and hook up the o'scope and spend gobs of time with 
the schematics, does anyone have any suggestions for what menu disaster I may 
have caused?

(I recall that Menu and Config has bitten me before)

73, Ron. KO7V

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I will amplify Jim's and Wayne's and Lyle's comment regarding audio, 
attenuation of a frequency or frequencies produces far superior results 
to boosting a given frequency or frequencies.   We have become 
accustomed to "boost this" and "boost that" when in fact attenuate this 
and attenuate that is the better option.   One just has to understand 
the spectral components of audio to figure out how "this and that" applies.


73
Bob, K4TAX

On 10/19/2017 11:29 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

YES, YES, YES!

Jim K9YC

On 10/19/2017 4:52 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

Wayne and Lyle have repeatedly warned against using excessive boost in
RXEQ.  One would be far better to reduce all values by 10 to 12 dB as
this will help prevent over driving the audio amplifiers, etc.

This has the same characteristic without the issues of over driving the
audio amplifier.

  RX EQ   1    -16
  2    -12
  3    -3
  4 0
  5 0
  6    +2
  7    -5 





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Jim Brown]

YES, YES, YES!

Jim K9YC

On 10/19/2017 4:52 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

Wayne and Lyle have repeatedly warned against using excessive boost in
RXEQ.  One would be far better to reduce all values by 10 to 12 dB as
this will help prevent over driving the audio amplifiers, etc.

This has the same characteristic without the issues of over driving the
audio amplifier.

  RX EQ   1    -16
  2    -12
  3    -3
  4 0
  5 0
  6    +2
  7    -5 



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Bill]

Nice!  I am running as you suggested and it sounds good.

Thanks,

Bill W2BLC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

>  Shift -1.25
>  Width -2.7

This places the lower cutoff at DC!  It is very wasteful and susceptible
to significant hum/buzz.  Far better to use FL=0.30 and FH=3.00 for a
bandwidth of 3 KHz and reduce FH as needed based on QRM.

>  RX EQ   1-2
>  2 0
>  3+9
>  4+12
>  5+11
>  6+14
>  7+7
>  8-16

Wayne and Lyle have repeatedly warned against using excessive boost in
RXEQ.  One would be far better to reduce all values by 10 to 12 dB as
this will help prevent over driving the audio amplifiers, etc.

This has the same characteristic without the issues of over driving the
audio amplifier.

  RX EQ   1-16
  2-12
  3-3
  4 0
  5 0
  6+2
  7-5
  8-16

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/19/2017 6:25 AM, Bill wrote:
Once again the good/bad/indifferent K3 audio surfaces. I do not get it - 
never have. The K3 is so audio customizable that it should be pleasing 
to nearly every user (I say nearly, as there are some whom will never be 
happy). To make a long story short, here is link to my current settings. 
Of course, they are my settings and may not please everyone.




**The following are the settings I am /_currently_/ using on 40, 75, 160 
for armchair copy (meaning very reduced hiss, no ANF warbling, and 
pleasing listening). My RX audio goes through amplified Behringer studio 
speakers with bass/treble adjustments.

**

**

Note: I often make RX Eq changes depending upon mood, attitude, boredom, 
and allergies/colds - as needed.


The speaker adjustments:  bass and treble both set to the middle notch

K3 settings:

  (Config Menu):
     AGC DCY -    NORM
     AGC HLD -   0
     AGC PLS -    NORM
     AGC SLP -    4 to 6 (low setting reduces artifacts from the 
Automatic Notch Filter)

     AGC THR -   12
     AGC F -    120
     AGC S -    20
     Shift -  1.25
     Width -    2.7
  (front panel):
     RF Gain -     90 (sometimes less)
     ATT -   ON
  (Menu):
     RX EQ       1    -2
  2    0
  3    +9
  4    +12
          5    +11
      6    +14
  7    +7
      8    -16

Be sure to read the "Noisy K3" section on http://www.w3fpr.com/ - 
excellent information!


The disclaimer:  Your mileage for the above settings may (will) vary - 
depending upon speaker selection, personal preferences, and your hearing 
acuity.


Note:  I made all of my settings by hand, using the K3 menus - thus 
affording instant gratification. I used to do all the EQ stuff with 
outboard devices. With the advent of my K3, all those devices took a 
one-way ride to a hamfest.


Bill W2BLC

**

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Bill]

Once again the good/bad/indifferent K3 audio surfaces. I do not get it - 
never have. The K3 is so audio customizable that it should be pleasing 
to nearly every user (I say nearly, as there are some whom will never be 
happy). To make a long story short, here is link to my current settings. 
Of course, they are my settings and may not please everyone.




**The following are the settings I am /_currently_/ using on 40, 75, 160 
for armchair copy (meaning very reduced hiss, no ANF warbling, and 
pleasing listening). My RX audio goes through amplified Behringer studio 
speakers with bass/treble adjustments.

**

**

Note: I often make RX Eq changes depending upon mood, attitude, boredom, 
and allergies/colds - as needed.


The speaker adjustments:  bass and treble both set to the middle notch

K3 settings:

 (Config Menu):
    AGC DCY -    NORM
    AGC HLD -   0
    AGC PLS -    NORM
    AGC SLP -    4 to 6 (low setting reduces artifacts from the 
Automatic Notch Filter)

    AGC THR -   12
    AGC F -    120
    AGC S -    20
    Shift -  1.25
    Width -    2.7
 (front panel):
    RF Gain -     90 (sometimes less)
    ATT -   ON
 (Menu):
    RX EQ       1    -2
 2    0
 3    +9
 4    +12
         5    +11
     6    +14
 7    +7
     8    -16

Be sure to read the "Noisy K3" section on http://www.w3fpr.com/ - 
excellent information!


The disclaimer:  Your mileage for the above settings may (will) vary - 
depending upon speaker selection, personal preferences, and your hearing 
acuity.


Note:  I made all of my settings by hand, using the K3 menus - thus 
affording instant gratification. I used to do all the EQ stuff with 
outboard devices. With the advent of my K3, all those devices took a 
one-way ride to a hamfest.


Bill W2BLC

**

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Jim Brown]

On 10/18/2017 9:03 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
The voice audio needs some information in the 300 to 400 Hz region for 
clarity, so the LO CUT must be set in the 200 to 400 Hz range to keep 
intelligibility. 


I disagree. Audio below about 400 Hz makes VERY little contribution to 
speech intelligibility. The 1 kHz, 2 kHz, and 4 kHz octave bands are 
where the action is. Sound below 400 Hz provides "body" to the voice and 
"thickens" it. It can more pleasing to listen to, but it also burns 
transmitter power. So if the goal is communications, power is better 
devoted to those higher bands.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Don Wilhelm]

Are you using the WIDTH and SHIFT on SSB?
I would suggest that you will find better success using HI CUT and LO 
CUT for SSB.
The voice audio needs some information in the 300 to 400 Hz region for 
clarity, so the LO CUT must be set in the 200 to 400 Hz range to keep 
intelligibility.
The HI CUT can be reduced to as much as 1500 Hz and still maintain 
intelligibility, but at such extremes, the characteristics of the voice 
will be lost.  It is best if the HI CUT is placed at 2800 for good 
recognition of the voice.  Reduce that frequency if there is 
interference (QRM) on the high frequency side.


73,
Don W3FPR


On 10/18/2017 8:07 PM, k4...@arrl.net wrote:

I’ve found the audio with narrow filtering is much “clearer” to my ears (using 
a Heil headset) on my Kenwood TS480 than on my K3. I spoke with another person 
who owns both radios and he finds the Kenwood audio crisper, less “mushy.”   My 
K3 is a great radio, but I’d sure like to hear better. Is there some adjustment 
I’m missing?
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Fred Jensen]

Ummm ... by all means tinker with it.  We are all different.  My hearing 
is pretty well shot, SSB in a contest or DX pile is a non-starter and I 
stay on CW most of the time.  It peaks about 600 Hz, which is my pitch 
frequency, and I've tried surrounding it with RX EQ settings to enhance 
it.  I may be doing something wrong here [that has occasionally happened 
before], but it doesn't seem to work well.  The APF does, it is touchy 
to get set up, and I only use it occasionally, but the RX EQ that looks 
like the response of my hearing aids seems to work best, regardless of 
my DSP BW/HI-LO CUT settings.  YMMV and probably will.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 10/18/2017 6:28 PM, K4MWB wrote:

Joe and Jim, thanks for the equalization advice. I'm mostly a CW op, so I'd
assume raising the 400-500 Hz range and suppressing the higher frequencies
would help. I'll tinker with it.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 10/18/2017 9:28 PM, K4MWB wrote:

I'm mostly a CW op, so I'd assume raising the 400-500 Hz range and
suppressing the higher frequencies would help.


With typical filter widths, there is no real value to RX EQ on CW.  I
tend to leave 0.40 and 0.80 flat and set 0.05, 0.10, 2.40, 3.20 to
-16.  0.20 and 1.60 are either flat or a slight (-3) roll off.

The nice thing about the K3 is that it will store separate RX EQ for
CW and SSB so setting one will not mess up the other mode.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/18/2017 9:28 PM, K4MWB wrote:

Joe and Jim, thanks for the equalization advice. I'm mostly a CW op, so I'd
assume raising the 400-500 Hz range and suppressing the higher frequencies
would help. I'll tinker with it.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 10/18/2017 9:03 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
but optimum spectrum for speech intelligibility with this bandwidth 
limit is 400 Hz to 3.2 kHz.


However, the K3 defaults to 100 - 2900 Hz as I pointed out.

It would be handy if SSB defaulted to FL=0.40 (or FL=0.30) instead of
FC=1.50 as that would avoid the need to adjust FC when "dialing in" a
narrow filer.  Most of the older generation of rigs set the carrier
offset (i.e., FL) when selecting filters rather than center frequency.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/18/2017 9:03 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
I generally agree with Joe's advice, but will differ here.  Joe is right 
that full bandwidth (with the 2.7 or 2.8 kHz filter) is 2.8 kHz, but 
optimum spectrum for speech intelligibility with this bandwidth limit is 
400 Hz to 3.2 kHz. This is fundamental stuff -- Bell Labs, probably the 
premier engineering institution on the planet back then, figured it out 
at least 100 years ago, and lots of research in the years since has 
confirmed it.


I own 1.8 kHz roofing filters, but find them too narrow for my 
ear-brain. We're all different, so YMMV. I have a 2.1 kHz filter in one 
of my K3s, and like it. I rarely set my IF narrower than 2 kHz for SSB.


As Joe has noted, RXEQ can be adjusted to tilt the response a bit. If 
like many of us old guys you have much hearing loss, you might want to 
boost the top octave band in RXEQ by 3 dB.


There are two other issues at play here. First, the K3 has a pretty good 
but pretty small speaker. Second, chief engineer Wayne Burdick has 
strong roots in backpacking, so his audio stages tend to be a bit 
current starved.


73, Jim K9YC

On 10/18/2017 5:31 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


> Is there some adjustment I’m missing?

Try adjusting the center frequency (shift) or decreasing the Low Cut
(FL) and High Cut (FH) by similar amounts.  In general, the important
spectrum for speech is 400 - 2200 Hz while simply "dialing down" the
width causes the Low Cut to raise too quickly.

The K3/K3S nominal 2.8 KHz bandwidth is set at 100 - 2900 (FC = 1500).
Simply dialing the width down to 1.8 KHz results in a passband of
600 - 2400 Hz (FC remains 1500 Hz).  Adjusting FC down to 1250 or 1300
Hz will greatly improve the "clarity" of SSB.

In addition, the K3 has a flat audio response while most rigs have a
slight raising characteristic (about 3 dB/octave).  You can emulate
that response using the RX EQ.  Set 0.05 = -16, 0.10= -16, 0.20= -6,
0.40= 0, 0.80= +3, 1.60= +6, 2.40= +8, 3.20= +9 and the audio will
emulate "other rigs".  You can also set 3.20 to -6 to minimize high
frequency noise.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[K4MWB]

Joe and Jim, thanks for the equalization advice. I'm mostly a CW op, so I'd
assume raising the 400-500 Hz range and suppressing the higher frequencies
would help. I'll tinker with it. 



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Jim Brown]

I generally agree with Joe's advice, but will differ here.  Joe is right 
that full bandwidth (with the 2.7 or 2.8 kHz filter) is 2.8 kHz, but 
optimum spectrum for speech intelligibility with this bandwidth limit is 
400 Hz to 3.2 kHz. This is fundamental stuff -- Bell Labs, probably the 
premier engineering institution on the planet back then, figured it out 
at least 100 years ago, and lots of research in the years since has 
confirmed it.


I own 1.8 kHz roofing filters, but find them too narrow for my 
ear-brain. We're all different, so YMMV. I have a 2.1 kHz filter in one 
of my K3s, and like it. I rarely set my IF narrower than 2 kHz for SSB.


As Joe has noted, RXEQ can be adjusted to tilt the response a bit. If 
like many of us old guys you have much hearing loss, you might want to 
boost the top octave band in RXEQ by 3 dB.


There are two other issues at play here. First, the K3 has a pretty good 
but pretty small speaker. Second, chief engineer Wayne Burdick has 
strong roots in backpacking, so his audio stages tend to be a bit 
current starved.


73, Jim K9YC

On 10/18/2017 5:31 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


> Is there some adjustment I’m missing?

Try adjusting the center frequency (shift) or decreasing the Low Cut
(FL) and High Cut (FH) by similar amounts.  In general, the important
spectrum for speech is 400 - 2200 Hz while simply "dialing down" the
width causes the Low Cut to raise too quickly.

The K3/K3S nominal 2.8 KHz bandwidth is set at 100 - 2900 (FC = 1500).
Simply dialing the width down to 1.8 KHz results in a passband of
600 - 2400 Hz (FC remains 1500 Hz).  Adjusting FC down to 1250 or 1300
Hz will greatly improve the "clarity" of SSB.

In addition, the K3 has a flat audio response while most rigs have a
slight raising characteristic (about 3 dB/octave).  You can emulate
that response using the RX EQ.  Set 0.05 = -16, 0.10= -16, 0.20= -6,
0.40= 0, 0.80= +3, 1.60= +6, 2.40= +8, 3.20= +9 and the audio will
emulate "other rigs".  You can also set 3.20 to -6 to minimize high
frequency noise.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Audio

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> Is there some adjustment I’m missing?

Try adjusting the center frequency (shift) or decreasing the Low Cut
(FL) and High Cut (FH) by similar amounts.  In general, the important
spectrum for speech is 400 - 2200 Hz while simply "dialing down" the
width causes the Low Cut to raise too quickly.

The K3/K3S nominal 2.8 KHz bandwidth is set at 100 - 2900 (FC = 1500).
Simply dialing the width down to 1.8 KHz results in a passband of
600 - 2400 Hz (FC remains 1500 Hz).  Adjusting FC down to 1250 or 1300
Hz will greatly improve the "clarity" of SSB.

In addition, the K3 has a flat audio response while most rigs have a
slight raising characteristic (about 3 dB/octave).  You can emulate
that response using the RX EQ.  Set 0.05 = -16, 0.10= -16, 0.20= -6,
0.40= 0, 0.80= +3, 1.60= +6, 2.40= +8, 3.20= +9 and the audio will
emulate "other rigs".  You can also set 3.20 to -6 to minimize high
frequency noise.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 10/18/2017 8:07 PM, k4...@arrl.net wrote:

I’ve found the audio with narrow filtering is much “clearer” to my ears (using 
a Heil headset) on my Kenwood TS480 than on my K3. I spoke with another person 
who owns both radios and he finds the Kenwood audio crisper, less “mushy.”   My 
K3 is a great radio, but I’d sure like to hear better. Is there some adjustment 
I’m missing?
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[Elecraft] K3 Audio

[k4...@arrl.net]

I’ve found the audio with narrow filtering is much “clearer” to my ears (using 
a Heil headset) on my Kenwood TS480 than on my K3. I spoke with another person 
who owns both radios and he finds the Kenwood audio crisper, less “mushy.”   My 
K3 is a great radio, but I’d sure like to hear better. Is there some adjustment 
I’m missing?
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 - Audio Drops

[hb9brj]

While I never suffered from the "audio drop" issue after shutting down
Log4OM, it seems that the new WSJT-X 1.7.0 produces the same effect when it
is terminated. My K3 goes absolutely silent. Touching the WIDTH control
brings audio back. WSJT-X is widely used, so hopefully there is a chance to
find the root cause.

Markus HB9BRJ



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Gary]

Ditto Jim

-Original Message-
From: "Jim Rhodes" <j...@rhodesend.net>
Sent: ‎18/‎09/‎2016 4:51 AM
To: "Alan. G4GNX" <g4...@theatreorgans.co.uk>
Cc: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

Nothing to add except that I have never owned  tranceiver that did not
sound better on headphones or an external speaker(s).

On Sep 17, 2016 8:02 AM, "Alan. G4GNX" <g4...@theatreorgans.co.uk> wrote:

> Well guys (and gals) so far there have been 34 replies on this thread and
> I'm grateful for every one of them.
>
> I guess we need to try out forming some kind of hood to see if that will
> work for the complainers and if that fails we may need to try an external
> speaker.
>
> We actually had one guy last week (who is the main complainer) who boldly
> stated that he was a hi-fi buff and I just groaned silently! I also agree
> with the appliance-operator syndrome, where "it's no good unless it's
> totally plug and play"!
>
> Several points come to mind:
>
> The comparison with the IC7300 seems to be a fair one to me, because that
> rig also has an upward facing internal speaker and we did disconnect the
> external speaker to check. To my ears (and several others) the IC7300 had
> far better "quality" audio, but that said it is probably not optimum for
> Amateur communications, which is what many don't seem to realise is what we
> are 'actually' trying to achieve.
>
> It may pay us to find time to experiment with the DSP settings with the
> complainers in the same room but unable to see the adjustments, to see if
> they can be appeased, but I have my doubts because I suspect that the
> prejudice is already well entrenched.
>
> I brought the IC7300 home and compared it with my IC7100 and it didn't
> show a great deal of difference, perhaps slightly better because the IC7300
> is in a bigger enclosure. I haven't yet made a comparison with my own K3.
>
> One of the greatest problems with club owned equipment is the variation in
> members' preferences as well as poor test conditions. In a large room with
> many people, it's impossible to keep them all quiet and some folks seem to
> think it's OK to stand right next to the operator/s and discuss some other
> topic - LOUDLY. The only answer there seems to be headphones. The same goes
> for filed days/contests.
>
> Perhaps we should start to wind this thread up now before it outstays its
> welcome? :-)
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
>
> -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm
> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 1:58 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality
>
> I was not going to "chime in" on this thread because that "horse" has
> been thoroughly beat to death in the past.
>
> Let's face it, a small speaker like that used in the K3/K3S is not going
> to produce astounding bass and since it faces upwards away from your
> ears, the high frequency sounds are going to get lost.
> I believe it does exceptionally well for its size and quality.
>
> If you want good quality speaker audio from your K3/K3S, you are going
> to have to use external speakers - pick your quality there too.  I use a
> pair of old Radio Shack Optimus speakers that I picked up for cheap at a
> 2nd hand store.  The 4 inch drivers sound great with my K3, but being 4
> inch drivers they are not expected to produce 'resounding bass', but
> that is not required for communications.  The internal speaker sounds
> worse by comparison, but is usable if the external speakers are not
> available.
>
> So, if you are comparing the audio between two radios, don't rely on the
> internal speakers.  Connect each one to good quality speakers - that way
> you are comparing the radio's audio, and not the quality of the internal
> speakers.  Some radios produce better quality audio from their internal
> speakers than others - for instance the KX3 internal speaker is far
> inferior to the internal speaker used in the KX2.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
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Please 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Jim Rhodes]

Nothing to add except that I have never owned  tranceiver that did not
sound better on headphones or an external speaker(s).

On Sep 17, 2016 8:02 AM, "Alan. G4GNX" <g4...@theatreorgans.co.uk> wrote:

> Well guys (and gals) so far there have been 34 replies on this thread and
> I'm grateful for every one of them.
>
> I guess we need to try out forming some kind of hood to see if that will
> work for the complainers and if that fails we may need to try an external
> speaker.
>
> We actually had one guy last week (who is the main complainer) who boldly
> stated that he was a hi-fi buff and I just groaned silently! I also agree
> with the appliance-operator syndrome, where "it's no good unless it's
> totally plug and play"!
>
> Several points come to mind:
>
> The comparison with the IC7300 seems to be a fair one to me, because that
> rig also has an upward facing internal speaker and we did disconnect the
> external speaker to check. To my ears (and several others) the IC7300 had
> far better "quality" audio, but that said it is probably not optimum for
> Amateur communications, which is what many don't seem to realise is what we
> are 'actually' trying to achieve.
>
> It may pay us to find time to experiment with the DSP settings with the
> complainers in the same room but unable to see the adjustments, to see if
> they can be appeased, but I have my doubts because I suspect that the
> prejudice is already well entrenched.
>
> I brought the IC7300 home and compared it with my IC7100 and it didn't
> show a great deal of difference, perhaps slightly better because the IC7300
> is in a bigger enclosure. I haven't yet made a comparison with my own K3.
>
> One of the greatest problems with club owned equipment is the variation in
> members' preferences as well as poor test conditions. In a large room with
> many people, it's impossible to keep them all quiet and some folks seem to
> think it's OK to stand right next to the operator/s and discuss some other
> topic - LOUDLY. The only answer there seems to be headphones. The same goes
> for filed days/contests.
>
> Perhaps we should start to wind this thread up now before it outstays its
> welcome? :-)
>
> 73,
>
> Alan. G4GNX
>
> -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm
> Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 1:58 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality
>
> I was not going to "chime in" on this thread because that "horse" has
> been thoroughly beat to death in the past.
>
> Let's face it, a small speaker like that used in the K3/K3S is not going
> to produce astounding bass and since it faces upwards away from your
> ears, the high frequency sounds are going to get lost.
> I believe it does exceptionally well for its size and quality.
>
> If you want good quality speaker audio from your K3/K3S, you are going
> to have to use external speakers - pick your quality there too.  I use a
> pair of old Radio Shack Optimus speakers that I picked up for cheap at a
> 2nd hand store.  The 4 inch drivers sound great with my K3, but being 4
> inch drivers they are not expected to produce 'resounding bass', but
> that is not required for communications.  The internal speaker sounds
> worse by comparison, but is usable if the external speakers are not
> available.
>
> So, if you are comparing the audio between two radios, don't rely on the
> internal speakers.  Connect each one to good quality speakers - that way
> you are comparing the radio's audio, and not the quality of the internal
> speakers.  Some radios produce better quality audio from their internal
> speakers than others - for instance the KX3 internal speaker is far
> inferior to the internal speaker used in the KX2.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Alan. G4GNX]

Well guys (and gals) so far there have been 34 replies on this thread and 
I'm grateful for every one of them.


I guess we need to try out forming some kind of hood to see if that will 
work for the complainers and if that fails we may need to try an external 
speaker.


We actually had one guy last week (who is the main complainer) who boldly 
stated that he was a hi-fi buff and I just groaned silently! I also agree 
with the appliance-operator syndrome, where "it's no good unless it's 
totally plug and play"!


Several points come to mind:

The comparison with the IC7300 seems to be a fair one to me, because that 
rig also has an upward facing internal speaker and we did disconnect the 
external speaker to check. To my ears (and several others) the IC7300 had 
far better "quality" audio, but that said it is probably not optimum for 
Amateur communications, which is what many don't seem to realise is what we 
are 'actually' trying to achieve.


It may pay us to find time to experiment with the DSP settings with the 
complainers in the same room but unable to see the adjustments, to see if 
they can be appeased, but I have my doubts because I suspect that the 
prejudice is already well entrenched.


I brought the IC7300 home and compared it with my IC7100 and it didn't show 
a great deal of difference, perhaps slightly better because the IC7300 is in 
a bigger enclosure. I haven't yet made a comparison with my own K3.


One of the greatest problems with club owned equipment is the variation in 
members' preferences as well as poor test conditions. In a large room with 
many people, it's impossible to keep them all quiet and some folks seem to 
think it's OK to stand right next to the operator/s and discuss some other 
topic - LOUDLY. The only answer there seems to be headphones. The same goes 
for filed days/contests.


Perhaps we should start to wind this thread up now before it outstays its 
welcome? :-)


73,

Alan. G4GNX

-Original Message- 
From: Don Wilhelm

Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 1:58 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

I was not going to "chime in" on this thread because that "horse" has
been thoroughly beat to death in the past.

Let's face it, a small speaker like that used in the K3/K3S is not going
to produce astounding bass and since it faces upwards away from your
ears, the high frequency sounds are going to get lost.
I believe it does exceptionally well for its size and quality.

If you want good quality speaker audio from your K3/K3S, you are going
to have to use external speakers - pick your quality there too.  I use a
pair of old Radio Shack Optimus speakers that I picked up for cheap at a
2nd hand store.  The 4 inch drivers sound great with my K3, but being 4
inch drivers they are not expected to produce 'resounding bass', but
that is not required for communications.  The internal speaker sounds
worse by comparison, but is usable if the external speakers are not
available.

So, if you are comparing the audio between two radios, don't rely on the
internal speakers.  Connect each one to good quality speakers - that way
you are comparing the radio's audio, and not the quality of the internal
speakers.  Some radios produce better quality audio from their internal
speakers than others - for instance the KX3 internal speaker is far
inferior to the internal speaker used in the KX2.

73,
Don W3FPR 


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

> Consider a baritone against a soprano on the same settings.  I think
> we need to hear from Jim on how they adjust the mixer settings for
> each person, news or music

The way EQ settings are adjusted in a recording studio or FM broadcast
(where one is concerned with 20 Hz to 15 or 20 KHz) has *no bearing* in
*communications* service.  As Jim and others have already pointed out,
Ma Bell learned nearly 90 years ago that 300 Hz to 2700 Hz works just
as well for the baritone (or basso profundo) as the soprano (or even
coloratura).  Even news/talk does minimal vocal equalization leaving
that to the preemphasis/deemphasis built into the transmission system.

When it comes to communications, the fundamental tone of the voice is
not [so] important ... what is important is overtone structure and
that is transmitted better in the 300 - 2700 Hz range than a 100 (or
50) Hz to 2200 Hz range for a baritone/basso profundo as the power
is concentrated in the frequency range critical for intelligibility.

With either the baritone or soprano, the speaking voice has very little
useful *power* above 3 KHz.  In RF systems (and old unequalized phone
circuits), there is more broadband noise than actual voice energy above
3 KHz so a 3 KHz roll-off improves intelligibility and reduces "listing
fatigue".


73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/16/2016 8:27 PM, Mel Farrer wrote:

Joe and all,
Isn't this where the rubber hits the road?  That is while your EQ settings are 
OK  It does not address the audio spectrum generated by the speaker.

Consider a baritone against a soprano on the same settings.  I think we need to 
hear from Jim on how they adjust the mixer settings for each person, news or 
music
Thanks.

Mel, K6KBE


  From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <li...@subich.com>
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality


EQ settings here:

SSB: -16, -16, -6, 0, 0, +3,  +5,  -6

CW:  -16,  -3,  0, 0, 0, -6, -10, -12

SSB setting are designed to roll off low frequency QRM,
provide some "presence" in the 1200-2800 Hz range essential
for intelligibility and roll off high frequency hiss, noise
and QRM.

Those who like "full range" audio (ESSB QRM generators) will
be appalled at the low frequency cut but it makes a big
improvement in intelligibility in most conditions.  Audio at
100 Hz and below is absolutely not needed for communication.

CW Settings are designed to roll off outside my CW listening
range.  My "pitch" is 460 Hz so I keep 200 - 800 Hz flat and
cut above/below a 600-700 Hz passband.  If one is using a
higher "pitch" it would be worthwhile changing the 1600 Hz
band from -6 to 0.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 9/16/2016 5:14 PM, Rich wrote:

Would you be kind enough to post your EQ values?

Rich

K3RWN


On 9/16/2016 15:18 PM, Greg wrote:

When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5
speaker to
go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he thought the K3
sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I hooked the K3 up to
the
second input on the SP5 and switched back and forth between the
FT1000D and
the K3, making equalizer adjustments to the K3 as I did so.  Finally I
felt
I had the K3 sounding like a FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made
him
turn around so he could not see which radio he was listening to...At that
point when I switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell
which
was which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make
changes to
a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The
beauty of
the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and adjusting the
sound to
personal taste is only one feature!  73, Greg-N4CC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Don Wilhelm]

I was not going to "chime in" on this thread because that "horse" has 
been thoroughly beat to death in the past.


Let's face it, a small speaker like that used in the K3/K3S is not going 
to produce astounding bass and since it faces upwards away from your 
ears, the high frequency sounds are going to get lost.

I believe it does exceptionally well for its size and quality.

If you want good quality speaker audio from your K3/K3S, you are going 
to have to use external speakers - pick your quality there too.  I use a 
pair of old Radio Shack Optimus speakers that I picked up for cheap at a 
2nd hand store.  The 4 inch drivers sound great with my K3, but being 4 
inch drivers they are not expected to produce 'resounding bass', but 
that is not required for communications.  The internal speaker sounds 
worse by comparison, but is usable if the external speakers are not 
available.


So, if you are comparing the audio between two radios, don't rely on the 
internal speakers.  Connect each one to good quality speakers - that way 
you are comparing the radio's audio, and not the quality of the internal 
speakers.  Some radios produce better quality audio from their internal 
speakers than others - for instance the KX3 internal speaker is far 
inferior to the internal speaker used in the KX2.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/16/2016 8:27 PM, Mel Farrer via Elecraft wrote:

Joe and all,
Isn't this where the rubber hits the road?  That is while your EQ settings are 
OK  It does not address the audio spectrum generated by the speaker.

Consider a baritone against a soprano on the same settings.  I think we need to 
hear from Jim on how they adjust the mixer settings for each person, news or 
music
Thanks.




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

Joe and all,
Isn't this where the rubber hits the road?  That is while your EQ settings are 
OK  It does not address the audio spectrum generated by the speaker.  

Consider a baritone against a soprano on the same settings.  I think we need to 
hear from Jim on how they adjust the mixer settings for each person, news or 
music
Thanks.  

Mel, K6KBE


  From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <li...@subich.com>
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality
   

EQ settings here:

SSB: -16, -16, -6, 0, 0, +3,  +5,  -6

CW:  -16,  -3,  0, 0, 0, -6, -10, -12

SSB setting are designed to roll off low frequency QRM,
provide some "presence" in the 1200-2800 Hz range essential
for intelligibility and roll off high frequency hiss, noise
and QRM.

Those who like "full range" audio (ESSB QRM generators) will
be appalled at the low frequency cut but it makes a big
improvement in intelligibility in most conditions.  Audio at
100 Hz and below is absolutely not needed for communication.

CW Settings are designed to roll off outside my CW listening
range.  My "pitch" is 460 Hz so I keep 200 - 800 Hz flat and
cut above/below a 600-700 Hz passband.  If one is using a
higher "pitch" it would be worthwhile changing the 1600 Hz
band from -6 to 0.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV

On 9/16/2016 5:14 PM, Rich wrote:
> Would you be kind enough to post your EQ values?
>
> Rich
>
> K3RWN
>
>
> On 9/16/2016 15:18 PM, Greg wrote:
>> When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5
>> speaker to
>> go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he thought the K3
>> sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I hooked the K3 up to
>> the
>> second input on the SP5 and switched back and forth between the
>> FT1000D and
>> the K3, making equalizer adjustments to the K3 as I did so.  Finally I
>> felt
>> I had the K3 sounding like a FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made
>> him
>> turn around so he could not see which radio he was listening to...At that
>> point when I switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell
>> which
>> was which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make
>> changes to
>> a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The
>> beauty of
>> the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and adjusting the
>> sound to
>> personal taste is only one feature!  73, Greg-N4CC
>>
>> __
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>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>> Message delivered to rwnewbo...@comcast.net
>>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

EQ settings here:

SSB: -16, -16, -6, 0, 0, +3,  +5,  -6

CW:  -16,  -3,  0, 0, 0, -6, -10, -12

SSB setting are designed to roll off low frequency QRM,
provide some "presence" in the 1200-2800 Hz range essential
for intelligibility and roll off high frequency hiss, noise
and QRM.

Those who like "full range" audio (ESSB QRM generators) will
be appalled at the low frequency cut but it makes a big
improvement in intelligibility in most conditions.  Audio at
100 Hz and below is absolutely not needed for communication.

CW Settings are designed to roll off outside my CW listening
range.  My "pitch" is 460 Hz so I keep 200 - 800 Hz flat and
cut above/below a 600-700 Hz passband.  If one is using a
higher "pitch" it would be worthwhile changing the 1600 Hz
band from -6 to 0.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV

On 9/16/2016 5:14 PM, Rich wrote:

Would you be kind enough to post your EQ values?

Rich

K3RWN


On 9/16/2016 15:18 PM, Greg wrote:

When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5
speaker to
go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he thought the K3
sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I hooked the K3 up to
the
second input on the SP5 and switched back and forth between the
FT1000D and
the K3, making equalizer adjustments to the K3 as I did so.  Finally I
felt
I had the K3 sounding like a FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made
him
turn around so he could not see which radio he was listening to...At that
point when I switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell
which
was which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make
changes to
a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The
beauty of
the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and adjusting the
sound to
personal taste is only one feature!  73, Greg-N4CC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Jim Brown]

Hi Bill,

One thing we learned many years ago in pro audio is that in general, 
it's a bad idea to use "boost" EQ, especially to boost a lot of bands, 
and to boost them a lot. The reason is "headroom" -- when you're 
boosting a lot, you're more likely to hit digital clip on audio peaks.


I suggest that you subtract 10 dB from each band. The only band where 
you'll change the shape of the curve is the top one. And if you're doing 
the cut in that band to minimize noise internal to the K3, simply 
increase the RF gain a bit (or turn off the ATTEN and reduce the RF gain).


73, Jim K9YC

On Fri,9/16/2016 4:50 PM, Bill wrote:

*

*Menu settings used at W2BLC for armchair copy on 160/75/40 meters:*

*

The following are the settings I am using on 40, 75, 160 for armchair 
copy (meaning very reduced hiss and no ANF warbling). My RX audio goes 
through amplified Behringer studio speakers with bass/treble adjustments.


The speaker adjustments:  bass at 3 o'clock and the treble at 11 o'clock

K3 settings (Config Menu):
AGC DLY - NORM
AGC HLD - 0
AGC PLS - NORM
AGC SLP - 4 to 6 (low setting reduces artifacts from the Automatic 
Notch Filter)

AGC THR - 12
AGC F -   120
AGC S -   20
Shift -  1.25
Width -2.7
RF Gain -90 (sometimes less)
ATT -   ON
RX EQ 1-2
 20
 3+9
 4+12
 5+11
 6+14
 7+7
 8-16


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/16/2016 3:37 PM, Augie "Gus" Hansen wrote:
AM 6 kHz or so eq'd circuit. 


In the OLD days when AM was still the "big dog" and FM was a license to 
lose money, the station I worked for had a telephone link to the 
transmitter equalized to 10 kHz.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Bill]

*

*Menu settings used at W2BLC for armchair copy on 160/75/40 meters:*

*

The following are the settings I am using on 40, 75, 160 for armchair 
copy (meaning very reduced hiss and no ANF warbling). My RX audio goes 
through amplified Behringer studio speakers with bass/treble adjustments.


The speaker adjustments:  bass at 3 o'clock and the treble at 11 o'clock

K3 settings (Config Menu):
AGC DLY - NORM
AGC HLD - 0
AGC PLS - NORM
AGC SLP - 4 to 6 (low setting reduces artifacts from the Automatic 
Notch Filter)

AGC THR - 12
AGC F -   120
AGC S -   20
Shift -  1.25
Width -2.7
RF Gain -90 (sometimes less)
ATT -   ON
RX EQ 1-2
 20
 3+9
 4+12
 5+11
 6+14
 7+7
 8-16

Be sure to read the "Noisy K3" section on http://www.w3fpr.com/ - 
excellent information!


The disclaimer:  Your mileage for the above settings may vary - 
depending upon speaker selection, personal preferences, and your hearing 
acuity.


Note:  I made all of my settings by hand, using the K3 menus. I did NOT 
use K3 EZ as that program will sometimes upset the AGC settings.


Bill W2BLC

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Kevin]

I rest my case.

I think if you blindfold someone and tell them their listening to a 
K3(s) they'd come back with the same "it sounds like %$@!" answer even 
if it was another manu's rig they were listening to. It's a self 
sustaining urban legend now.



On 9/16/2016 2:18 PM, Greg wrote:

When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5 speaker to
go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he thought the K3
sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I hooked the K3 up to the
second input on the SP5 and switched back and forth between the FT1000D and
the K3, making equalizer adjustments to the K3 as I did so.  Finally I felt
I had the K3 sounding like a FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made him
turn around so he could not see which radio he was listening to...At that
point when I switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell which
was which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make changes to
a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The beauty of
the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and adjusting the sound to
personal taste is only one feature!  73, Greg-N4CC

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--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Augie "Gus" Hansen]

Hi Jim,



...
It's all very simple physics. Look at the size of the loudspeaker. Its 
low frequency output is limited by its size as a fraction of a 
wavelength. The K3 and K3S are designed as compact, light weight 
radios. The speaker used is quite good for its size. If you want big 
bass, you need a big loudspeaker (or at least one a lot bigger than 
the little guy in the K3 and K3S).  BUT -- ham radio is NOT about high 
fidelity, it's about COMMUNICATIONS quality sound.


Having the sub receiver doubles my listening pleasure. I use a pair of 
old RS Minimus-7 speakers with my original K3, and am using a pair of 
Jensen Powered Speakers (JPS 45) with my K3S. Getting excellent sound 
from both systems.


Nearly a century ago, Bell Labs learned through a lot of research that 
all it takes for communications is smooth (flat) response between 
about 500 Hz and 3 kHz, and the telephone system was designed around 
that bandwidth.


As a former Bell head (BTL in Denver) working on PBX systems in the 
1970s I was exposed to the training for many telephone products. The 
plain old telephone service, POTS, was designed for a 3000 Hz bandwidth 
(300-3300).


In the 1960s while earning my EE degree I worked in the broadcast 
business. Our main studio to transmitter link was an equalized line, but 
the backup circuit was a POTS line. Fortunately we didn't need to press 
it into service often, but on those occasions it sure sounded crappy by 
comparison to the usual AM 6 kHz or so eq'd circuit. And much more so 
when we added an FM station to the mix.


73,
Gus Hansen
KB0YH

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Walter Underwood]

It would still be nice to see some examples.

A while back, a bunch of people posted their TX EQ settings. Some were 
outliers, but a few were very similar. It was clear that about a third of those 
posted had come to pretty much the same settings.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Sep 16, 2016, at 2:46 PM, Mark E. Musick <markmus...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> Remember RX EQ settings are by mode. One for CW and one for SSB.
> Also, has already been mentioned, the settings that suit your taste for
> audio quality may not suit anyone else.
> 
> Mark, WB9CIF
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rich
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:15 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality
> 
> Would you be kind enough to post your EQ values?
> 
> Rich
> 
> K3RWN
> 
> 
> On 9/16/2016 15:18 PM, Greg wrote:
>> When I first got my K3, I was used to a FT1000D and had the SP5 
>> speaker to go with it.  A friend who also has a FT1000D told me he 
>> thought the K3 sounded like "$#@%" compared to the FT1000D...so I 
>> hooked the K3 up to the second input on the SP5 and switched back and 
>> forth between the FT1000D and the K3, making equalizer adjustments to 
>> the K3 as I did so.  Finally I felt I had the K3 sounding like a 
>> FT-1000D.  My friend came over and I made him turn around so he could 
>> not see which radio he was listening to...At that point when I 
>> switched from one radio to the other, he could not tell which was 
>> which.  Of course he grumbled that you shouldn't have to make changes 
>> to a new radio to get it to sound good...but I just laughed...  The 
>> beauty of the K3 is having the ability to do what you want, and 
>> adjusting the sound to personal taste is only one feature!  73, 
>> Greg-N4CC
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 audio quality

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,9/16/2016 7:20 AM, Vic Rosenthal wrote:

High frequencies propagate in a straight line from a speaker, so a speaker 
facing upward loses 'presence'. Also the K3 speaker is a small speaker in a 
small box. An external speaker, facing the operator, will help a great deal.


This is exactly right.

Someone else wrote:

The reason behind is the artifacts from K3 DSP.


False. ALL audio goes through DSP. If it sounds good on headphones or an 
external speaker, bad sound is NOT the result of DSP -- unless it's been 
badly adjusted, like pushing up the low end or pushing up highs. But 
that's a USER problem, not a problem with the radio.


It's all very simple physics. Look at the size of the loudspeaker. Its 
low frequency output is limited by its size as a fraction of a 
wavelength. The K3 and K3S are designed as compact, light weight radios. 
The speaker used is quite good for its size. If you want big bass, you 
need a big loudspeaker (or at least one a lot bigger than the little guy 
in the K3 and K3S).  BUT -- ham radio is NOT about high fidelity, it's 
about COMMUNICATIONS quality sound. Nearly a century ago, Bell Labs 
learned through a lot of research that all it takes for communications 
is smooth (flat) response between about 500 Hz and 3 kHz, and the 
telephone system was designed around that bandwidth.


Most hams I know use headphones for serious operation, and use the 
speaker only for monitoring while doing something else in the shack, or 
for tuning in digital modes like RTTY, or listening for meteor pings 
with WSJT modes. If you want better sound through a speaker, buy a 
decent front-facing speaker and plug it into the rear panel jack.


73, Jim K9YC


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