Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
PS: Only the mains line is aluminum and connections treated with antioxidant paste. All new wiring in the new hamshack is copper (12-2 for 120vac and 10-3 for 240vac). The 3000w Meanwell 50v PS is served with a short 10-3 line to a 30A twist-lock receptacle in a floor mounted utility box with three foot 8-3 jumper to the PS (All copper). Max load is 12.5A; fused at 15A. Meanwell has internal overload and overtemp auto shutdown. Main thermostat (3000w) is programmable, so heat load will only be highest when the area is occupied. The workshop has manual thermostat which can be turned off when shop not in use (dividing wall is insulated between hamshack and workshop). The building will have a monitored (24/7) security system with smoke monitors. Monitor service calls police/fire dept if no one answers the phone. Two FD stations within five miles. I guess I could add thermistors to the mains contacts to alert overtemp. I use such a system on my QRO amp heatsinks to protect the amps (auto-overtemp shutdown of B+). I will monitor initial application of 240vac power to look for problems. In my college years I was a Electrician assistant for one summer job and got a good practical education installing ckts (even 440 industrial). Thanks for all the comments! Ed - KL7UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
It's all Cu now. They just replaced all the underground cables in our subdivision. Big stuff. 200A service is the residential standard these days (we had 400A at the office). The more expensive it is, the better they like it since the utility rates guarantee them a fixed percentage of return on their capital investments. 73 Lyn, WØLEN -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 5:20 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage? On 11/14/2022 2:08 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: > Aluminum does not meet any current (pun by chance ...) building codes around > here. I don't know what Chicago Codes are like now, but Comm Ed pulled Al conductors to my meter when I requested 100A service, and they refused to pull Cu. This would have been around 1987-90. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to l...@lnainc.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
On 11/14/2022 2:08 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: Aluminum does not meet any current (pun by chance ...) building codes around here. I don't know what Chicago Codes are like now, but Comm Ed pulled Al conductors to my meter when I requested 100A service, and they refused to pull Cu. This would have been around 1987-90. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
Yes ... both. Go look for yourself. Flexible cords like line cords are almost never aluminum ... I assume because line cords use fine stranded wires and if I'm not mistaken copper is more ductile than aluminum. Dave AB7E On 11/14/2022 3:42 PM, Lou Mecseri wrote: BUT NOT BOTH. How about line cords?" Lou KE1F On 11/14/2022 22:32, David Gilbert wrote: There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with aluminum wire, and it is typically what is used for very large gauge wire ... even for the utility entrance in my location. I would bet that if you look closely at your breaker box you will see the same for the main feed coming in unless you have a very lowly rated box for current. I don't think you can even find , for example, 4/0 wire in copper at places like Home Depot or Lowes. The historical problem associated with aluminum wire was the material used for connections at the sockets and other places. That has all been changed long ago and if you look closely at many electrical fixtures and buss bars you will see that the contacts are stamped to be rated for either copper or aluminum. Dave AB7E On 11/14/2022 3:08 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: Ed - I cringe when I think of aluminum wiring. I know it's currently about half the price of copper, but a townhouse I lived in from 1979-1982 in Chicago caught fire because of aluminum wiring and copper outlets. In fact, statistics show that 50% of home fires are due to aluminum wiring. Aluminum does not meet any current (pun by chance ...) building codes around here. It's all copper. Has been for at least 40 years. If you're stuck with aluminum (and it's legal??), be sure to liberally apply antioxidant where needed. 73 Lyn, WØLEN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to lmecs...@cfl.rr.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ab7e...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
Aluminum was legal at one point, as I recall it was the 80's (copper prices were obscene). It was an expensive mistake to allow aluminum wiring. I attended some fires as a result of aluminum wire (career firefighter, eventually Captain). My suspicion was that as switches and plugs were used, aluminum tolerated the small flexing less than copper (which basically self heals, molds to the connection being softer) and as it is exposed to air, a layer of aluminum oxide is produced (wrapping the internal content ) creating higher resistance. Over time the resistance and small flexes caused arcing, that gets to a point that it heats; causing the excitement. I don't have the chemistry or metallurigc background to confirm this; but this was the result of the cause investigation.. Adding a copper pigtail is a practical solution (cheaper than replacing all the wire). Aluminum wire is not used by me, anywhere, just like the backstab plugs and switches (if you can't bind them down; don't use them). I have seen the harm that can result and don't want to lose my house and possessions as I've seen others lose. In the cost of a house or shack, copper; the small increase in cost reaps major benefits (and aluminum is no longer legal for new construction, at least when I retired). 73, Rick nk7i On 11/14/2022 2:25 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: When my younger brother was finally out of the house for good, Mom and Dad bought a double-wide, sold the house in So. Central LAX, and moved south into a "Mobile Estates Park" in Costa Mesa. The wiring was Al. About 3 years later, they had a problem in one of the outlets that involved a small amount of smoke. That wasn't a serious incident, but Dad had to go around to each of the switches and outlets and put Cu pigtails on the Al wires to connect to the devices. I never got a clear story about what caused the original problem or why this would fix it. But, I'm really wary of Al wiring in house in which we sleep. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County Lyn Norstad wrote on 11/14/2022 2:08 PM: Ed - I cringe when I think of aluminum wiring. I know it's currently about half the price of copper, but a townhouse I lived in from 1979-1982 in Chicago caught fire because of aluminum wiring and copper outlets. In fact, statistics show that 50% of home fires are due to aluminum wiring. Aluminum does not meet any current (pun by chance ...) building codes around here. It's all copper. Has been for at least 40 years. If you're stuck with aluminum (and it's legal??), be sure to liberally apply antioxidant where needed. 73 Lyn, WØLEN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
BUT NOT BOTH. How about line cords?" Lou KE1F On 11/14/2022 22:32, David Gilbert wrote: There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with aluminum wire, and it is typically what is used for very large gauge wire ... even for the utility entrance in my location. I would bet that if you look closely at your breaker box you will see the same for the main feed coming in unless you have a very lowly rated box for current. I don't think you can even find , for example, 4/0 wire in copper at places like Home Depot or Lowes. The historical problem associated with aluminum wire was the material used for connections at the sockets and other places. That has all been changed long ago and if you look closely at many electrical fixtures and buss bars you will see that the contacts are stamped to be rated for either copper or aluminum. Dave AB7E On 11/14/2022 3:08 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: Ed - I cringe when I think of aluminum wiring. I know it's currently about half the price of copper, but a townhouse I lived in from 1979-1982 in Chicago caught fire because of aluminum wiring and copper outlets. In fact, statistics show that 50% of home fires are due to aluminum wiring. Aluminum does not meet any current (pun by chance ...) building codes around here. It's all copper. Has been for at least 40 years. If you're stuck with aluminum (and it's legal??), be sure to liberally apply antioxidant where needed. 73 Lyn, WØLEN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to lmecs...@cfl.rr.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
Aluminum wiring is "penny wise and pound foolish". Coming from a retired Fire Investigator. Good Luck and 73, Lou KE1F On 11/14/2022 22:08, Lyn Norstad wrote: Ed - I cringe when I think of aluminum wiring. I know it's currently about half the price of copper, but a townhouse I lived in from 1979-1982 in Chicago caught fire because of aluminum wiring and copper outlets. In fact, statistics show that 50% of home fires are due to aluminum wiring. Aluminum does not meet any current (pun by chance ...) building codes around here. It's all copper. Has been for at least 40 years. If you're stuck with aluminum (and it's legal??), be sure to liberally apply antioxidant where needed. 73 Lyn, WØLEN -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ed Cole Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 3:43 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage? On the general subject of house wiring, loads, and resulting voltage: I am wiring my new hamshack with 240vac mains extension from the house. I selected three No. 2 awg aluminum lines (copper not commonly used these days). These are approx 1/4-inch diameter. That is rated for 90A (in general). Resistance is 0.318 ohms/1000-feet so my 120-foot run has 0.0382 ohms. At 50A this results in a voltage drop of 1.9v. My service voltage is 243VAC. Estimation of max load at the new hamshack/workshop calculates as 36.5A. Maximum will likely never exist as not everything will be activated simultaneously, but good design is for max load. Largest load is electric baseboard heat (4000w); 50v PS is next (3000w). All my QRO amps are LDMOS and run about 2500w dc-input. I use three of these switching PS, but only one at a time. Info on my website: www.kl7uw.com 73, Ed - KL7UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to l...@lnainc.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to lmecs...@cfl.rr.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with aluminum wire, and it is typically what is used for very large gauge wire ... even for the utility entrance in my location. I would bet that if you look closely at your breaker box you will see the same for the main feed coming in unless you have a very lowly rated box for current. I don't think you can even find , for example, 4/0 wire in copper at places like Home Depot or Lowes. The historical problem associated with aluminum wire was the material used for connections at the sockets and other places. That has all been changed long ago and if you look closely at many electrical fixtures and buss bars you will see that the contacts are stamped to be rated for either copper or aluminum. Dave AB7E On 11/14/2022 3:08 PM, Lyn Norstad wrote: Ed - I cringe when I think of aluminum wiring. I know it's currently about half the price of copper, but a townhouse I lived in from 1979-1982 in Chicago caught fire because of aluminum wiring and copper outlets. In fact, statistics show that 50% of home fires are due to aluminum wiring. Aluminum does not meet any current (pun by chance ...) building codes around here. It's all copper. Has been for at least 40 years. If you're stuck with aluminum (and it's legal??), be sure to liberally apply antioxidant where needed. 73 Lyn, WØLEN __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
When my younger brother was finally out of the house for good, Mom and Dad bought a double-wide, sold the house in So. Central LAX, and moved south into a "Mobile Estates Park" in Costa Mesa. The wiring was Al. About 3 years later, they had a problem in one of the outlets that involved a small amount of smoke. That wasn't a serious incident, but Dad had to go around to each of the switches and outlets and put Cu pigtails on the Al wires to connect to the devices. I never got a clear story about what caused the original problem or why this would fix it. But, I'm really wary of Al wiring in house in which we sleep. 73, Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW Sparks NV DM09dn Washoe County Lyn Norstad wrote on 11/14/2022 2:08 PM: Ed - I cringe when I think of aluminum wiring. I know it's currently about half the price of copper, but a townhouse I lived in from 1979-1982 in Chicago caught fire because of aluminum wiring and copper outlets. In fact, statistics show that 50% of home fires are due to aluminum wiring. Aluminum does not meet any current (pun by chance ...) building codes around here. It's all copper. Has been for at least 40 years. If you're stuck with aluminum (and it's legal??), be sure to liberally apply antioxidant where needed. 73 Lyn, WØLEN -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
On 11/14/2022 1:43 PM, Ed Cole wrote: That is rated for 90A (in general). Resistance is 0.318 ohms/1000-feet so my 120-foot run has 0.0382 ohms. At 50A this results in a voltage drop of 1.9v. My service voltage is 243VAC. It's important to realize that current on AC mains is FAR from being a sine wave. This has been true for at least 30 years, as loads have been strongly dominated by switch-mode power supplies in almost every piece of equipment wiring into or plugged into, the system, and square-wave modulated controllers for nearly all large loads, like motors and heating devices. Current flows in pulses, usually short ones, that recharge the input capacitors of associated power supplies. The result of this is that both IR drop and the resulting heating are at least one-third greater than predicted by Ohm's Law applied to a sine wave. It is, therefore, very good engineering practice to oversize conductors, as you have done! Before we moved into the home we bought in NorCal, I had the outbuilding housing my shack rewired, and even though the runs from the panelboard are pretty short, had #10 pulled in for the 20A-240V circuit. Since I will never have more than one amp on at a time, I felt that 20A was sufficient. All of the 120V circuits are 20A, wired with #12, not oversized, since the only heavy load, 1 12A space heater, has its own circuit. 73, Jim K9YC 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
Ed - I cringe when I think of aluminum wiring. I know it's currently about half the price of copper, but a townhouse I lived in from 1979-1982 in Chicago caught fire because of aluminum wiring and copper outlets. In fact, statistics show that 50% of home fires are due to aluminum wiring. Aluminum does not meet any current (pun by chance ...) building codes around here. It's all copper. Has been for at least 40 years. If you're stuck with aluminum (and it's legal??), be sure to liberally apply antioxidant where needed. 73 Lyn, WØLEN -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ed Cole Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 3:43 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage? On the general subject of house wiring, loads, and resulting voltage: I am wiring my new hamshack with 240vac mains extension from the house. I selected three No. 2 awg aluminum lines (copper not commonly used these days). These are approx 1/4-inch diameter. That is rated for 90A (in general). Resistance is 0.318 ohms/1000-feet so my 120-foot run has 0.0382 ohms. At 50A this results in a voltage drop of 1.9v. My service voltage is 243VAC. Estimation of max load at the new hamshack/workshop calculates as 36.5A. Maximum will likely never exist as not everything will be activated simultaneously, but good design is for max load. Largest load is electric baseboard heat (4000w); 50v PS is next (3000w). All my QRO amps are LDMOS and run about 2500w dc-input. I use three of these switching PS, but only one at a time. Info on my website: www.kl7uw.com 73, Ed - KL7UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to l...@lnainc.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
On the general subject of house wiring, loads, and resulting voltage: I am wiring my new hamshack with 240vac mains extension from the house. I selected three No. 2 awg aluminum lines (copper not commonly used these days). These are approx 1/4-inch diameter. That is rated for 90A (in general). Resistance is 0.318 ohms/1000-feet so my 120-foot run has 0.0382 ohms. At 50A this results in a voltage drop of 1.9v. My service voltage is 243VAC. Estimation of max load at the new hamshack/workshop calculates as 36.5A. Maximum will likely never exist as not everything will be activated simultaneously, but good design is for max load. Largest load is electric baseboard heat (4000w); 50v PS is next (3000w). All my QRO amps are LDMOS and run about 2500w dc-input. I use three of these switching PS, but only one at a time. Info on my website: www.kl7uw.com 73, Ed - KL7UW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
Jim - Of course, that's what the various taps are for. But at the higher setting, although the voltage was within the published "acceptable" range, 2 components in the power supply failed. This was the second time it had been back for service - the first time they discovered missing components (it was factory built). I'm not going to argue with the Mothership. It has been flawless since the second service trip. If I'm down a couple watts (not at all sure that's the case), it's better than being down a couple Franklins. 73 Lyn, WØLEN -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 12:37 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage? On 11/14/2022 6:38 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote: > I had mine set up, as Rick suggests - but when it was in for service, they dropped it back a notch saying it was too high. That's the difference between their mains wiring and yours. I'd stick with what is highest, within range, at your QTH. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to l...@lnainc.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
On 11/14/2022 9:36 AM, Jon Poland wrote: My 12 year old house has 200 amp service. I don't know why. But since building it, we have shifted to 90+% LED lighting, high efficiency dishwasher, fridge, and clothes washer. My entire lighting load at any given time is less than 120W. A smart thermostat reduces AC and furnace loads. The 2 largest electrical loads are the clothes dryer and gas furnace blower. This house is also better insulated than any home I have ever owned - also reducing the furnace load (gas and electricity). What you're missing, Jon, is that IR drop to that outlet that feeds the KPA500 is NOT the total load to the home, but primarily the IR drop FROM THE PANEL of the circuit that feeds the amp. The feed from the street to that panel is usually a small fraction of that. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
On 11/14/2022 6:38 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote: I had mine set up, as Rick suggests - but when it was in for service, they dropped it back a notch saying it was too high. That's the difference between their mains wiring and yours. I'd stick with what is highest, within range, at your QTH. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
: > Gordon - > > I had mine set up, as Rick suggests - but when it was in for service, they dropped it back a notch saying it was too high. > > My readings now agree with yours. > > 73 > Lyn, WØLEN > > > -Original Message- > From:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net <mailto:from%3aelecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick NK7I > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2022 1:03 PM > To:elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:to%3aelecr...@mailman.qth.net> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage? > > I'd move it up one tap as long as it does NOT EXCEED 85V at receive. > > Higher voltage not only gives you better output but also cleaner. That > matters too. > > 73, > Rick nk7i > > > On 11/12/2022 10:25 AM, Gordon LaPoint wrote: >> My KPA500 is showing 57-58 VDC at 450-500 watts out, and 71-72 VDC on rx. >> >> Is this normal or should I move up one tap? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Gordon - N1MGO >> >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post:mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered torick.n...@gmail.com > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post:mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to...@lnainc.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to jonpol...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
I disagree with Rick. It is true that modern houses have more electric capacity. But as homeowners shift to more efficient appliances and lighting, electric loads (and bills) are consistently dropping. The one trend that counters that though is that modern homes (at least in the US) are consistently larger than their older counterparts and require more energy to keep comfortable. That trend does not explain voltage drops though. My 12 year old house has 200 amp service. I don't know why. But since building it, we have shifted to 90+% LED lighting, high efficiency dishwasher, fridge, and clothes washer. My entire lighting load at any given time is less than 120W. A smart thermostat reduces AC and furnace loads. The 2 largest electrical loads are the clothes dryer and gas furnace blower. This house is also better insulated than any home I have ever owned - also reducing the furnace load (gas and electricity). Curiously, the next largest load in many homes are the TV's turned on in every bedroom... (But their heat reduces the amount of time the furnace needs to run.) Of course, if you have an electric car charger the picture changes drastically... But that is still a small percentage of US homes today. jon N0WL On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 11:10 AM Rick Bates, NK7I wrote: > Too high at THEIR location. > > Power company feeds, vary (not a lot but their load changes, they adjust). > > House wiring varies and other devices on that circuit can cause other > variations too. Older homes (1950's and older) often have less capacity > than newer homes (didn't need it then). Today we use a LOT more energy > than then; some house circuits are no longer 'adequate' (causing fires > in some cases because folks abuse the wiring in ignorance). > > Part of station set up and operations, is knowing what the circuit(s) of > the house wiring, is connected to besides the station. Fridge, washer, > HVAC, electric oven shared with the station? > > If you need one more tap to get within the right voltage window, use one > more tap to achieve that. If you change circuits, remeasure. And if on > the same circuit, maybe don't run the washing machine or oven at the > same time as the amp. ;-) > > 73, > Rick nk7i > > > On 11/14/2022 6:38 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote: > > Gordon - > > > > I had mine set up, as Rick suggests - but when it was in for service, > they dropped it back a notch saying it was too high. > > > > My readings now agree with yours. > > > > 73 > > Lyn, WØLEN > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto: > elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick NK7I > > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2022 1:03 PM > > To:elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage? > > > > I'd move it up one tap as long as it does NOT EXCEED 85V at receive. > > > > Higher voltage not only gives you better output but also cleaner. That > > matters too. > > > > 73, > > Rick nk7i > > > > > > On 11/12/2022 10:25 AM, Gordon LaPoint wrote: > >> My KPA500 is showing 57-58 VDC at 450-500 watts out, and 71-72 VDC on > rx. > >> > >> Is this normal or should I move up one tap? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Gordon - N1MGO > >> > >> > >> __ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >> Post:mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> > >> This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >> Message delivered torick.n...@gmail.com > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post:mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to...@lnainc.com > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to jonpol...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
Too high at THEIR location. Power company feeds, vary (not a lot but their load changes, they adjust). House wiring varies and other devices on that circuit can cause other variations too. Older homes (1950's and older) often have less capacity than newer homes (didn't need it then). Today we use a LOT more energy than then; some house circuits are no longer 'adequate' (causing fires in some cases because folks abuse the wiring in ignorance). Part of station set up and operations, is knowing what the circuit(s) of the house wiring, is connected to besides the station. Fridge, washer, HVAC, electric oven shared with the station? If you need one more tap to get within the right voltage window, use one more tap to achieve that. If you change circuits, remeasure. And if on the same circuit, maybe don't run the washing machine or oven at the same time as the amp. ;-) 73, Rick nk7i On 11/14/2022 6:38 AM, Lyn Norstad wrote: Gordon - I had mine set up, as Rick suggests - but when it was in for service, they dropped it back a notch saying it was too high. My readings now agree with yours. 73 Lyn, WØLEN -Original Message- From:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick NK7I Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2022 1:03 PM To:elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage? I'd move it up one tap as long as it does NOT EXCEED 85V at receive. Higher voltage not only gives you better output but also cleaner. That matters too. 73, Rick nk7i On 11/12/2022 10:25 AM, Gordon LaPoint wrote: My KPA500 is showing 57-58 VDC at 450-500 watts out, and 71-72 VDC on rx. Is this normal or should I move up one tap? Thanks, Gordon - N1MGO __ Elecraft mailing list Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered torick.n...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to...@lnainc.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
Gordon - I had mine set up, as Rick suggests - but when it was in for service, they dropped it back a notch saying it was too high. My readings now agree with yours. 73 Lyn, WØLEN -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Rick NK7I Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2022 1:03 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage? I'd move it up one tap as long as it does NOT EXCEED 85V at receive. Higher voltage not only gives you better output but also cleaner. That matters too. 73, Rick nk7i On 11/12/2022 10:25 AM, Gordon LaPoint wrote: > My KPA500 is showing 57-58 VDC at 450-500 watts out, and 71-72 VDC on rx. > > Is this normal or should I move up one tap? > > Thanks, > > Gordon - N1MGO > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rick.n...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to l...@lnainc.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
On 11/13/2022 10:52 AM, Andy Durbin wrote: Note that the drop is not related only to power output but is a function of total PA input power It's also a function of IR drop in ALL of the AC wiring between the distribution panel and the amp. In North America, building codes call for at least #14 for circuits fused at 15A, and #12 for 20A. Copper is expensive, so larger sizes are rarely installed. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage?
I'd move it up one tap as long as it does NOT EXCEED 85V at receive. Higher voltage not only gives you better output but also cleaner. That matters too. 73, Rick nk7i On 11/12/2022 10:25 AM, Gordon LaPoint wrote: My KPA500 is showing 57-58 VDC at 450-500 watts out, and 71-72 VDC on rx. Is this normal or should I move up one tap? Thanks, Gordon - N1MGO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rick.n...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage range?
Yup. That's exactly what's happening here - except the numbers are a notch or two lower. 73 Lyn, W0LEN From: Andy Durbin [mailto:a.dur...@msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 2:58 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; l...@lnainc.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage range? "I though Elecraft wanted HV to be kept at or above 60 to avoid unacceptable IMD. No sure where I found that but don't think I imagined it. " The problem with making measurements is that one may not like the results. It's a nice warm afternoon here in Glendale AZ and I expect every air conditioner in the street is running. Line voltage is down to 116.4 and loaded HV is well below 60 now. 1:13:59.663 KPA Mon frozen TX freq = 50314500 Hz Drv pwr = 027 W Pwr meter = 12 dots KAT SWR = 1.18 KPA SWR = 01.2 PA voltage = 56.8 V PA current = 13.7 A PA input = 778 W RF out = 495 W PA diss = 283 W PA effic = 63% Andy, k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage range?
"I though Elecraft wanted HV to be kept at or above 60 to avoid unacceptable IMD. No sure where I found that but don't think I imagined it. " The problem with making measurements is that one may not like the results. It's a nice warm afternoon here in Glendale AZ and I expect every air conditioner in the street is running. Line voltage is down to 116.4 and loaded HV is well below 60 now. 1:13:59.663 KPA Mon frozen TX freq = 50314500 Hz Drv pwr = 027 W Pwr meter = 12 dots KAT SWR = 1.18 KPA SWR = 01.2 PA voltage = 56.8 V PA current = 13.7 A PA input = 778 W RF out = 495 W PA diss = 283 W PA effic = 63% Andy, k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage range?
"Seems a little low, but it's happy." I though Elecraft wanted HV to be kept at or above 60 to avoid unacceptable IMD. No sure where I found that but don't think I imagined it. Anyone have a reference? Andy, k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage range?
Andy - I'm also running 120. My HV idle runs about 68v, and under full load drops to 50v @ 12a. Seems a little low, but it's happy. 73 Lyn, W0LEN -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Andy Durbin Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2022 12:00 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage range? "I don't remember the AC, can check it later, but think its 231-232." Your use of nominal 240 would explain why your HV sag is a lot less than mine. I have always run my KPA500 on 120. Maybe someone who uses nominal 240 would provide their typical loaded and unloaded HV values. Andy, k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to l...@lnainc.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage range?
"I don't remember the AC, can check it later, but think its 231-232." Your use of nominal 240 would explain why your HV sag is a lot less than mine. I have always run my KPA500 on 120. Maybe someone who uses nominal 240 would provide their typical loaded and unloaded HV values. Andy, k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage range?
Andy, Thanks, I'm looking for the VDC allowed voltage, unloaded and loaded. I don't remember the AC, can check it later, but think its 231-232. Gordon - N1MGO On 7/6/2022 8:53 AM, Andy Durbin wrote: "My kpa500 has the taps set to provide 71-72 VDC no load and drops to 60 at 500 watts." Do you know how your house line input voltage varies? Mine can be as high as 122 and as low as 118 and the local transformer is less than 50 ft from my house. I see unloaded KPA500 voltage over 80 with tap selected to keep loaded KPA500 voltage at or above 60. If your loaded voltage does not drop below 60 for all bands, all antenna loads, and all used output powers, I see no reason to change the tap. Band, loading, and power output all have a very significant influence on efficiency, PA current, and voltage drop in the PA HV supply. Spot check values: Line voltage 122.0 Unloaded HV 81.4 TX 500 W, 6 m band, SWR 1.15, HV 60.3 Andy, k3wyc __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to gordon.lapo...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] [Kpa500] voltage tap
Eric, I think if you change the tap on the transformer, the no load voltage will be too high. But you can try it and see if the no-load voltage goes too high - move the tap back if it goes too high. Your problem is likely with the voltage drop on the 120 volt line. Is the receptacle shared with other receptacles in the house? If so, they should all be checked for tightness of the wires to the receptacles. If any use the "back-stab" connections, they should be changed to the screw terminals. If you are not qualified to do those checks, have a licensed electrician do it for you. If you can see your way clear to run a dedicated 120 volt receptacle into the area where the amp is located, that will help - have it wired with #12 or better #10 wire for the lower voltage drop. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/21/2018 5:58 AM, eric norris via Elecraft wrote: My KPA500 used to be on a 220v line, but it is now in an area where that is not possible. It is on 120v, in a 65 year old house. Further, I am running it on a 10ft appliance type heavy extension cord. I cannot change these circumstances for the forseeable future. No load HV is 78v. Under full (550w on 40m) load it is 60v. Current tap is RED. Should I go GREEN? Should I leave it on RED? How much HV boost would that give? Good/bad/disasterous idea? 73 Eric WD6DBM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 voltage tap question
On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Robert G. Strickland rc...@verizon.net wrote: Hello, all... I've just finished assembling my KPA500 and have a question about selecting the correct tap wire to set the operating voltage. My 220v line reads 231v no load, so I selected the yellow tap. The amp no load voltage is 71.7v. The transmitting voltage is 58v DC which is marginally low. If I select the red tap then I expect I'll be marginally high. If my choice is between marginally low and marginally high, which is the better choice? Thanks for comments. Try the red tap. So long as the idle voltage is still under 85V, go with it. 73, ~iain / N6ML __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Voltage Test Problem
I got it. I'm at 76 Volt on the HV now. It appears that I did not have one of the ribbon cables aligned properly. On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Timothy Eklin tme1...@comcast.net wrote: I just assembled my KPA500. I'm using it on 240 VAC line and have the fuse configured for this set up. The Yellow wire in on the TAP and when I did the initial test, I'm showing 16.8 Volts on the HV meter which is along way from 65 to 85 Volts as expected. Ideas as to what's wrong? 73 W8JJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
