[Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
Long story short I am looking at building a project that would likely work best with EDM. I am looking at building a custom EDM head for a a CNC router that is currently configured for 0.0001 step. What I am trying to figure out is how to configure EMC so that the electronics can return a pause signal until it has burned burned through the requested material, then continue on the tool path. It is straight forward to write this in custom code, but I would prefer not to have to rewrite everything from scratch, and just set up a LinuxCNC configuration for it. Any ideas on how to do that? I'm drawing a blank... Thanks and best regards, EBo -- -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
2013/2/3 EBo e...@sandien.com: Long story short I am looking at building a project that would likely work best with EDM. I am looking at building a custom EDM head for a a CNC router that is currently configured for 0.0001 step. What I am trying to figure out is how to configure EMC so that the electronics can return a pause signal until it has burned burned through the requested material, then continue on the tool path. It is straight forward to write this in custom code, but I would prefer not to have to rewrite everything from scratch, and just set up a LinuxCNC configuration for it. Any ideas on how to do that? I'm drawing a blank... Have You considered using motion.feed-hold pin? If I understand You correctly, it seems like a perfect fit for this case - enable it with M53 P1 in code and attach motion.feed-hold to whatever input from Your electronics. And motion will be paused, whenever the input is true. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Feb 3 2013 4:47 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2013/2/3 EBo e...@sandien.com: Long story short I am looking at building a project that would likely work best with EDM. I am looking at building a custom EDM head for a a CNC router that is currently configured for 0.0001 step. What I am trying to figure out is how to configure EMC so that the electronics can return a pause signal until it has burned burned through the requested material, then continue on the tool path. It is straight forward to write this in custom code, but I would prefer not to have to rewrite everything from scratch, and just set up a LinuxCNC configuration for it. Any ideas on how to do that? I'm drawing a blank... Have You considered using motion.feed-hold pin? If I understand You correctly, it seems like a perfect fit for this case - enable it with M53 P1 in code and attach motion.feed-hold to whatever input from Your electronics. And motion will be paused, whenever the input is true. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html Viesturs, that looks perfect! Now I just need to fire out how to rewire the router, build the EDM head, and set up the configuration ;-) Unfortunately, it will likely be a little while before I can break out all the time :-( Thanks again, and I will post back when I get a chance to build this up. EBo -- -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On 3 February 2013 13:39, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: What I am trying to figure out is how to configure EMC so that the electronics can return a pause signal until it has burned burned through the requested material, Adaptive feed _might_ work, but there is no way in the current code to run the path backwards. EDM machines that I have seen running seem to have to reverse quite frequently, so this might be a very difficult thing to get working. I don't know if the trajectory planner keeps the move history, if it does then it might be possible to allow negative adaptive feed. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Feb 3 2013 4:57 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 3 February 2013 13:39, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: What I am trying to figure out is how to configure EMC so that the electronics can return a pause signal until it has burned burned through the requested material, Adaptive feed _might_ work, but there is no way in the current code to run the path backwards. EDM machines that I have seen running seem to have to reverse quite frequently, so this might be a very difficult thing to get working. I don't know if the trajectory planner keeps the move history, if it does then it might be possible to allow negative adaptive feed. I was working on a very detailed reply before the circuit breaker tripped... Short answer is that decades ago I was shown a EDM head that could self retract a small distance (enough that you could feed in a couple of mm and the head would self retract via an analog current closed-loop feedback system). I was planning to build and modify that design a little to give me a pause signal and integrate that back into motion control. Anyway, I want to make some *very* small parts (the tooling is likely to be smaller that 0.01 diameter), and I can afford to make and break a bunch of these before I could afford to go out and buy a commercial EDM with capable specs. EBo -- -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On 3 February 2013 15:39, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: Short answer is that decades ago I was shown a EDM head that could self retract a small distance If this is purely a die-sinking application then I suggest not bothering with G-code at all. Do the whole thing in HAL with a custom component, and maybe your own Glade UI to control it. Gabe Willen has built a few machines using this approach (a plunge-grinder was one, I think) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Sun, 2013-02-03 at 15:50 +0200, andy pugh wrote: On 3 February 2013 15:39, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: Short answer is that decades ago I was shown a EDM head that could self retract a small distance If this is purely a die-sinking application then I suggest not bothering with G-code at all. Do the whole thing in HAL with a custom component, and maybe your own Glade UI to control it. Gabe Willen has built a few machines using this approach (a plunge-grinder was one, I think) Some years ago Pete (the last name escapes me) brought an EDM to fest. Stepper powered and controlled by a BASIC (?) program. Both wire and sinker modes. C axis so he could thread. Pretty neat stuff. Maybe Steve Stallings can jump in here with a last name and phone number. Steve was doing something with him on a edm power supply. More hints ... from Wisconsin and drove an early Prius. Sorry I can't be more specific. Dave -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
[Emc-developers] cylindrical grinding and cam turning
i now have a requirement to look at both grinding and cam turning on my small lathe looking around i notice shirline have done some coding in this respect to emc for cam grinding has anyone else looked or done the same . i'm looking at how to approach this or alternatives . my own fault i think wanting to make a 18 cyl radial ! Dave -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] cylindrical grinding and cam turning
On 3 February 2013 18:30, David Armstrong dave...@outlook.com wrote: i now have a requirement to look at both grinding and cam turning on my small lathe It is fairly straightforward as long as you can make the spindle turn slowly enough for the X axis to be able to follow it. You also, obviously, need a spindle encoder. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] cylindrical grinding and cam turning
On Sunday 03 February 2013 13:06:52 andy pugh did opine: Message additions Copyright Sunday 03 February 2013 by Gene Heskett On 3 February 2013 18:30, David Armstrong dave...@outlook.com wrote: i now have a requirement to look at both grinding and cam turning on my small lathe It is fairly straightforward as long as you can make the spindle turn slowly enough for the X axis to be able to follow it. You also, obviously, need a spindle encoder. That likely will need a better, finer grained encoder than my 50 slotter Andy, although I have considered trying to duplicate someone I saw on you- tube a year or so doing the hex flats for a wrench with a cutting tool mounted that way. But it was rather obviously at the end of the spindles available slow speed torque doing it with many near total stops of the spindle. The PID was obviously working serious overtime. For grinding there wouldn't of course be anywhere near the torque requirement that cutting needs. With my setup I can turn fairly steady at 10 rpm no load on my mini-lathe. An interesting project for sure, David. you-tube movies would be great, not only for that, but for the first time its fired up too, hint hint. ;-) I've seen a couple V12's running, but not a radial. That would be quite a statement about the artist IMO. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml ``Erik 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 is a big number I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
-Original Message- From: dave [mailto:dengv...@charter.net] Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 10:43 AM To: EMC developers Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions On Sun, 2013-02-03 at 15:50 +0200, andy pugh wrote: On 3 February 2013 15:39, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: Short answer is that decades ago I was shown a EDM head that could self retract a small distance If this is purely a die-sinking application then I suggest not bothering with G-code at all. Do the whole thing in HAL with a custom component, and maybe your own Glade UI to control it. Gabe Willen has built a few machines using this approach (a plunge-grinder was one, I think) Some years ago Pete (the last name escapes me) brought an EDM to fest. Stepper powered and controlled by a BASIC (?) program. Both wire and sinker modes. C axis so he could thread. Pretty neat stuff. Maybe Steve Stallings can jump in here with a last name and phone number. Steve was doing something with him on a edm power supply. More hints ... from Wisconsin and drove an early Prius. Sorry I can't be more specific. Dave That would be Pete Gruendeman. We have not been in contact since about 2008, a year after the fest where he brought his setup. I keep intending to get back to making something more for EDM, but never seem to get the time. Pete's system did not use EMC, but perhaps used some code ideas from it. He ran Basic which was plenty fast enough considering how slow the EDM process runs. I never had a copy of his code, so I cannot answer any detailed questions. I don't have a phone number. I do have an old email address that may or may not work, but I do not want to publish it on an open list. I would forward a message if you like. Steve Stallings -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
Sure. I would like to touch base with him. If I can not easily run it on emc then I will write a similar C program to drive it (probably via ANdroid) Sent from my Galaxy S®III Original message From: Steve Stallings steve...@newsguy.com Date: To: dengv...@charter.net,'EMC developers' emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:dengv...@charter.net] Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 10:43 AM To: EMC developers Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions On Sun, 2013-02-03 at 15:50 +0200, andy pugh wrote: On 3 February 2013 15:39, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: Short answer is that decades ago I was shown a EDM head that could self retract a small distance If this is purely a die-sinking application then I suggest not bothering with G-code at all. Do the whole thing in HAL with a custom component, and maybe your own Glade UI to control it. Gabe Willen has built a few machines using this approach (a plunge-grinder was one, I think) Some years ago Pete (the last name escapes me) brought an EDM to fest. Stepper powered and controlled by a BASIC (?) program. Both wire and sinker modes. C axis so he could thread. Pretty neat stuff. Maybe Steve Stallings can jump in here with a last name and phone number. Steve was doing something with him on a edm power supply. More hints ... from Wisconsin and drove an early Prius. Sorry I can't be more specific. Dave That would be Pete Gruendeman. We have not been in contact since about 2008, a year after the fest where he brought his setup. I keep intending to get back to making something more for EDM, but never seem to get the time. Pete's system did not use EMC, but perhaps used some code ideas from it. He ran Basic which was plenty fast enough considering how slow the EDM process runs. I never had a copy of his code, so I cannot answer any detailed questions. I don't have a phone number. I do have an old email address that may or may not work, but I do not want to publish it on an open list. I would forward a message if you like. Steve Stallings -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 06:57 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 3 February 2013 13:39, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: What I am trying to figure out is how to configure EMC so that the electronics can return a pause signal until it has burned burned through the requested material, Adaptive feed _might_ work, but there is no way in the current code to run the path backwards. EDM machines that I have seen running seem to have to reverse quite frequently, so this might be a very difficult thing to get working. Adaptive feed was added to LinuxCNC specifically with the EDM application in mind. The idea is that some combination of external circuits and HAL blocks would generate a value between 0 and 1 which would control the rate at which LinuxCNC traverses the programmed path. I don't know if the trajectory planner keeps the move history, if it does then it might be possible to allow negative adaptive feed. Unfortunately negative feed would require major rework - there is no history of the path that has been executed. (That has also been discussed at length in the context of EDM.) -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
Ebo.. Please let us know if you hear back from him. I know of several EDM machines that need new controls.. and the ability to back up seems to be really important for a wire edm. Thanks, Dave On 2/3/2013 2:04 PM, ebo wrote: Sure. I would like to touch base with him. If I can not easily run it on emc then I will write a similar C program to drive it (probably via ANdroid) Sent from my Galaxy S®III Original message From: Steve Stallingssteve...@newsguy.com Date: To: dengv...@charter.net,'EMC developers'emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions -Original Message- From: dave [mailto:dengv...@charter.net] Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2013 10:43 AM To: EMC developers Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions On Sun, 2013-02-03 at 15:50 +0200, andy pugh wrote: On 3 February 2013 15:39, EBoe...@sandien.com wrote: Short answer is that decades ago I was shown a EDM head that could self retract a small distance If this is purely a die-sinking application then I suggest not bothering with G-code at all. Do the whole thing in HAL with a custom component, and maybe your own Glade UI to control it. Gabe Willen has built a few machines using this approach (a plunge-grinder was one, I think) Some years ago Pete (the last name escapes me) brought an EDM to fest. Stepper powered and controlled by a BASIC (?) program. Both wire and sinker modes. C axis so he could thread. Pretty neat stuff. Maybe Steve Stallings can jump in here with a last name and phone number. Steve was doing something with him on a edm power supply. More hints ... from Wisconsin and drove an early Prius. Sorry I can't be more specific. Dave That would be Pete Gruendeman. We have not been in contact since about 2008, a year after the fest where he brought his setup. I keep intending to get back to making something more for EDM, but never seem to get the time. Pete's system did not use EMC, but perhaps used some code ideas from it. He ran Basic which was plenty fast enough considering how slow the EDM process runs. I never had a copy of his code, so I cannot answer any detailed questions. I don't have a phone number. I do have an old email address that may or may not work, but I do not want to publish it on an open list. I would forward a message if you like. Steve Stallings -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
I don't know if the trajectory planner keeps the move history, if it does then it might be possible to allow negative adaptive feed. Unfortunately negative feed would require major rework - there is no history of the path that has been executed. (That has also been discussed at length in the context of EDM.) -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm Michael did a proof of concept on jog-while-paused once. You can see it on Utube. I think it worked by making a second queue for the jogging part. Then when you were done it picked up the original queue's move. I wonder if that same basic concept could be put to use with backing up an EDM move. Chris M -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
Steve Stallings wrote: SNIP That would be Pete Gruendeman. We have not been in contact since about 2008, a year after the fest where he brought his setup. I keep intending to get back to making something more for EDM, but never seem to get the time. Pete's system did not use EMC, but perhaps used some code ideas from it. He ran Basic which was plenty fast enough considering how slow the EDM process runs. I never had a copy of his code, so I cannot answer any detailed questions. I don't have a phone number. I do have an old email address that may or may not work, but I do not want to publish it on an open list. I would forward a message if you like. Steve Stallings Pete is a member of the local LUG as am I. Do you want me to look him up? Ed. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Feb 3 2013 1:02 PM, Chris Morley wrote: I don't know if the trajectory planner keeps the move history, if it does then it might be possible to allow negative adaptive feed. Unfortunately negative feed would require major rework - there is no history of the path that has been executed. (That has also been discussed at length in the context of EDM.) -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm Michael did a proof of concept on jog-while-paused once. You can see it on Utube. I think it worked by making a second queue for the jogging part. Then when you were done it picked up the original queue's move. I wonder if that same basic concept could be put to use with backing up an EDM move. possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. EBo -- -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Feb 3 2013 1:02 PM, Chris Morley wrote: ... Michael did a proof of concept on jog-while-paused once. You can see it on Utube. I just looked this up and the video does not move backward along the jogged path, but straight to where it was before. I would expect that with a wirefed EDM, this would break the tool. That being said, it looks like it has much of the necessary functionality. EBo -- -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Feb 3 2013 1:59 PM, ed wrote: Steve Stallings wrote: SNIP That would be Pete Gruendeman. We have not been in contact since about 2008, a year after the fest where he brought his setup. I keep intending to get back to making something more for EDM, but never seem to get the time. Pete's system did not use EMC, but perhaps used some code ideas from it. He ran Basic which was plenty fast enough considering how slow the EDM process runs. I never had a copy of his code, so I cannot answer any detailed questions. I don't have a phone number. I do have an old email address that may or may not work, but I do not want to publish it on an open list. I would forward a message if you like. Steve Stallings Pete is a member of the local LUG as am I. Do you want me to look him up? Sure. You can also contact me off-list if more appropriate. EBo -- -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, John Kasunich wrote: Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 17:08:37 -0500 From: John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm Reply-To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. What about different motion modules optimized different classes of applications? -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Feb 3 2013 3:42 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, John Kasunich wrote: Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 17:08:37 -0500 From: John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm Reply-To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. What about different motion modules optimized different classes of applications? Sure if you can describe realistic situations... -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Feb 3 2013 3:08 PM, John Kasunich wrote: On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. I was not saying that it could only go back a single move alone a single spline. I just said it needed to be reversible. I will have o think about the spindle-synchronization as I may need that exact functionality to make certain parts. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
For simple simker EDM I implemented reversing in a gcode loop sensing an analog input: http://code.google.com/p/sector67-sandbox/wiki/FrequencyBasedAnalogInput this was simple for my application, could stand to be refined somewhat, and would get complicated for anything but straight down/up. Scott On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 7:50 PM, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: On Feb 3 2013 3:08 PM, John Kasunich wrote: On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. I was not saying that it could only go back a single move alone a single spline. I just said it needed to be reversible. I will have o think about the spindle-synchronization as I may need that exact functionality to make certain parts. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On 02/03/2013 07:47 PM, EBo wrote: On Feb 3 2013 3:42 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, John Kasunich wrote: Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 17:08:37 -0500 From: John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm Reply-To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. What about different motion modules optimized different classes of applications? Sure if you can describe realistic situations... -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers i've written and investigated Linuxcnc for EDM for years now maybe this will be of interest there are 3 basic forms of edm and each has unique needs all are EDM though and cannot tolerate the 'in position on time' nature of linuxcnc ( needs a different rule set for where the tool tip must be now ) the tool tip must be in a position dictated by the process, independant of time and independant of the position where we were last check. the 3 types of edm are ( besides edg and a few even rarer modes) 1) hole drilling... only moves along a single axis. usually a single joint 2) sink edm ... retracts to a given point ( maybe 3-8 axis, maybe 1, but the retract path is not neccesarily the approach path ( nor often the same )) because it retacts to a safe point, this is 'sky blue', you need'nt have begun or been there before, its just safe 3) wedm.. retracts along the programmed path thru one or more path pieces ( multiple gcodes/ multiple sequenctial tangential geometric entities) this requires a memory ( at least waypoints, like the segments spit out by the traj planner ) 1 2 are HAL solvable 3 requires changes to linuxcnc position planning ( at least a history that can be un-done, like gps waypoints ) my own tests are only for sink edm ( some for hole poppers but my HiPresure pump is down now ) i suggest something much simpler than the VtoF to HAL to thresholds to motion proposal i simply use a window comparator and output ADVANCE or RETRACT signals to hal hal knows the beginning and ending positions (limits) of the motion and an OFFSET component's input is inc'd/dec'd according to the process ( according to the window comparator ) the machine cannot exceed the depth programmed ( could be x y z c as you like ) so it has 'spark out' with a little hal-foo and timer ( or a higher threshold in mine ) It is not locked at the bottom, simply watch for it to be at the bottom for a len of time w/o backing off... thats a sign the work is really completed the cut could go bad and retract to the RETRACT limit, and I abort at that point ( no where to run ) the cut could get done and spark out at the bottom right now i'm playing with feeding JMK's sine/cosine stepper example to implement orbiting from this lower 'roughing point' i specialize in sink edm. I just rebuilt 2 OKAMOTO's that were terribly dead and abused. they cut fine now. I wrote all the macros for ELox system 8/9/10 fanuc's i wrote all the code
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
there was a guy on irc that converted an wire edm to linuxcnc using adaptive feed. I thought it worked pretty well - he had posted pictures of stuff he had cut... his handle on irc was mdynac a post by him on cnczone.. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/463833-post31.html oh - found the pictures - cradek hosted them... http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/edm/MVC-029S.JPG http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/edm So - it seems doable.. Seems the wire breaking issue could just be back up and RFL... And remember - Linuxcnc keeps getting better and better... sam On 02/03/2013 09:20 PM, TJoseph Powderly wrote: On 02/03/2013 07:47 PM, EBo wrote: On Feb 3 2013 3:42 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, John Kasunich wrote: Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 17:08:37 -0500 From: John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm Reply-To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. What about different motion modules optimized different classes of applications? Sure if you can describe realistic situations... -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers i've written and investigated Linuxcnc for EDM for years now maybe this will be of interest there are 3 basic forms of edm and each has unique needs all are EDM though and cannot tolerate the 'in position on time' nature of linuxcnc ( needs a different rule set for where the tool tip must be now ) the tool tip must be in a position dictated by the process, independant of time and independant of the position where we were last check. the 3 types of edm are ( besides edg and a few even rarer modes) 1) hole drilling... only moves along a single axis. usually a single joint 2) sink edm ... retracts to a given point ( maybe 3-8 axis, maybe 1, but the retract path is not neccesarily the approach path ( nor often the same )) because it retacts to a safe point, this is 'sky blue', you need'nt have begun or been there before, its just safe 3) wedm.. retracts along the programmed path thru one or more path pieces ( multiple gcodes/ multiple sequenctial tangential geometric entities) this requires a memory ( at least waypoints, like the segments spit out by the traj planner ) 1 2 are HAL solvable 3 requires changes to linuxcnc position planning ( at least a history that can be un-done, like gps waypoints ) my own tests are only for sink edm ( some for hole poppers but my HiPresure pump is down now ) i suggest something much simpler than the VtoF to HAL to thresholds to motion proposal i simply use a window comparator and output ADVANCE or RETRACT signals to hal hal knows the beginning and ending positions (limits) of the motion and an OFFSET component's input is inc'd/dec'd according to the process ( according to the window comparator ) the machine cannot exceed the depth programmed ( could be x y z c as you like ) so it has 'spark out' with a little hal-foo and timer ( or a
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
Oh - and this is kinda interesting... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTLs89YPtck Follow and translate the link in the description.. (interesting hack..) sam On 02/03/2013 09:20 PM, TJoseph Powderly wrote: On 02/03/2013 07:47 PM, EBo wrote: On Feb 3 2013 3:42 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, John Kasunich wrote: Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 17:08:37 -0500 From: John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm Reply-To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. What about different motion modules optimized different classes of applications? Sure if you can describe realistic situations... -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers i've written and investigated Linuxcnc for EDM for years now maybe this will be of interest there are 3 basic forms of edm and each has unique needs all are EDM though and cannot tolerate the 'in position on time' nature of linuxcnc ( needs a different rule set for where the tool tip must be now ) the tool tip must be in a position dictated by the process, independant of time and independant of the position where we were last check. the 3 types of edm are ( besides edg and a few even rarer modes) 1) hole drilling... only moves along a single axis. usually a single joint 2) sink edm ... retracts to a given point ( maybe 3-8 axis, maybe 1, but the retract path is not neccesarily the approach path ( nor often the same )) because it retacts to a safe point, this is 'sky blue', you need'nt have begun or been there before, its just safe 3) wedm.. retracts along the programmed path thru one or more path pieces ( multiple gcodes/ multiple sequenctial tangential geometric entities) this requires a memory ( at least waypoints, like the segments spit out by the traj planner ) 1 2 are HAL solvable 3 requires changes to linuxcnc position planning ( at least a history that can be un-done, like gps waypoints ) my own tests are only for sink edm ( some for hole poppers but my HiPresure pump is down now ) i suggest something much simpler than the VtoF to HAL to thresholds to motion proposal i simply use a window comparator and output ADVANCE or RETRACT signals to hal hal knows the beginning and ending positions (limits) of the motion and an OFFSET component's input is inc'd/dec'd according to the process ( according to the window comparator ) the machine cannot exceed the depth programmed ( could be x y z c as you like ) so it has 'spark out' with a little hal-foo and timer ( or a higher threshold in mine ) It is not locked at the bottom, simply watch for it to be at the bottom for a len of time w/o backing off... thats a sign the work is really completed the cut could go bad and retract to the RETRACT limit, and I abort at that point ( no where to run ) the cut could get done and spark out at the bottom right now i'm playing with feeding JMK's sine/cosine stepper
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
Scott, Thanks. I will look at this when I get a chance. I may end up reworking an old Bezier spline driver module to straight step direction code if it comes to that. More later, EBo -- On Feb 3 2013 7:17 PM, Scott Hasse wrote: For simple simker EDM I implemented reversing in a gcode loop sensing an analog input: http://code.google.com/p/sector67-sandbox/wiki/FrequencyBasedAnalogInput this was simple for my application, could stand to be refined somewhat, and would get complicated for anything but straight down/up. Scott On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 7:50 PM, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: On Feb 3 2013 3:08 PM, John Kasunich wrote: On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. I was not saying that it could only go back a single move alone a single spline. I just said it needed to be reversible. I will have o think about the spindle-synchronization as I may need that exact functionality to make certain parts. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
On Feb 3 2013 8:20 PM, TJoseph Powderly wrote: On 02/03/2013 07:47 PM, EBo wrote: On Feb 3 2013 3:42 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, John Kasunich wrote: Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 17:08:37 -0500 From: John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm Reply-To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. What about different motion modules optimized different classes of applications? Sure if you can describe realistic situations... -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers i've written and investigated Linuxcnc for EDM for years now maybe this will be of interest there are 3 basic forms of edm and each has unique needs all are EDM though and cannot tolerate the 'in position on time' nature of linuxcnc ( needs a different rule set for where the tool tip must be now ) the tool tip must be in a position dictated by the process, independant of time and independant of the position where we were last check. the 3 types of edm are ( besides edg and a few even rarer modes) 1) hole drilling... only moves along a single axis. usually a single joint 2) sink edm ... retracts to a given point ( maybe 3-8 axis, maybe 1, but the retract path is not neccesarily the approach path ( nor often the same )) because it retacts to a safe point, this is 'sky blue', you need'nt have begun or been there before, its just safe 3) wedm.. retracts along the programmed path thru one or more path pieces ( multiple gcodes/ multiple sequenctial tangential geometric entities) this requires a memory ( at least waypoints, like the segments spit out by the traj planner ) 1 2 are HAL solvable 3 requires changes to linuxcnc position planning ( at least a history that can be un-done, like gps waypoints ) my own tests are only for sink edm ( some for hole poppers but my HiPresure pump is down now ) i suggest something much simpler than the VtoF to HAL to thresholds to motion proposal i simply use a window comparator and output ADVANCE or RETRACT signals to hal hal knows the beginning and ending positions (limits) of the motion and an OFFSET component's input is inc'd/dec'd according to the process ( according to the window comparator ) the machine cannot exceed the depth programmed ( could be x y z c as you like ) so it has 'spark out' with a little hal-foo and timer ( or a higher threshold in mine ) It is not locked at the bottom, simply watch for it to be at the bottom for a len of time w/o backing off... thats a sign the work is really completed the cut could go bad and retract to the RETRACT limit, and I abort at that point ( no where to run ) the cut could get done and spark out at the bottom right now i'm playing with feeding JMK's sine/cosine stepper example to implement orbiting from this lower 'roughing point' i specialize in sink edm. I just rebuilt 2 OKAMOTO's that were
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
Looking at the pictures I really love the PDP-8 in one of them... Thanks for the links! On Feb 3 2013 8:44 PM, sam sokolik wrote: there was a guy on irc that converted an wire edm to linuxcnc using adaptive feed. I thought it worked pretty well - he had posted pictures of stuff he had cut... his handle on irc was mdynac a post by him on cnczone.. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/463833-post31.html oh - found the pictures - cradek hosted them... http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/edm/MVC-029S.JPG http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/edm So - it seems doable.. Seems the wire breaking issue could just be back up and RFL... And remember - Linuxcnc keeps getting better and better... sam On 02/03/2013 09:20 PM, TJoseph Powderly wrote: On 02/03/2013 07:47 PM, EBo wrote: On Feb 3 2013 3:42 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: On Sun, 3 Feb 2013, John Kasunich wrote: Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 17:08:37 -0500 From: John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm Reply-To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net To: EMC developers emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions On Sun, Feb 3, 2013, at 03:59 PM, EBo wrote: possibly, but a more principled hack would be to interface it at the point where it calls the low lever Catmull-Rom spline, and just evaluate it in reverse. I do not know how difficult that would be, but it would require the ability to move in the negitive direction. I have written things like this for moving along splines with custom code, but I would have to look into how to do this in EMC-s low level motion planning. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to set up a reverse-motion pin in HAL, and then evaluate it internally, or modify the adaptive move command to allow positive/negitive feedback voltage which would imply forward/reverse of motion. Anyway that is my thought off the cuff. Where things get ugly is when you try to do this in a general way. For example, what happens if you ask for negative feed while in a spindle synchronized move (single-point threading or rigid tapping)? Actually, that issue must have already been dealt with - adaptive feed would cause the problems in that case even for positive scale factors. But that was just an example. What about probing moves? What about the blend between successive non-co-linear straight lines? What about a profile that consists of many 0.002 long lines? Can you back up more than 0.002? Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. What about different motion modules optimized different classes of applications? Sure if you can describe realistic situations... -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers i've written and investigated Linuxcnc for EDM for years now maybe this will be of interest there are 3 basic forms of edm and each has unique needs all are EDM though and cannot tolerate the 'in position on time' nature of linuxcnc ( needs a different rule set for where the tool tip must be now ) the tool tip must be in a position dictated by the process, independant of time and independant of the position where we were last check. the 3 types of edm are ( besides edg and a few even rarer modes) 1) hole drilling... only moves along a single axis. usually a single joint 2) sink edm ... retracts to a given point ( maybe 3-8 axis, maybe 1, but the retract path is not neccesarily the approach path ( nor often the same )) because it retacts to a safe point, this is 'sky blue', you need'nt have begun or been there before, its just safe 3) wedm.. retracts along the programmed path thru one or more path pieces ( multiple gcodes/ multiple sequenctial tangential geometric entities) this requires a memory ( at least waypoints, like the segments spit out by the traj planner ) 1 2 are HAL solvable 3 requires changes to linuxcnc position planning ( at least a history that can be un-done, like gps waypoints ) my own tests are only for sink edm ( some for hole poppers but my HiPresure pump is down now ) i suggest something much simpler than the VtoF to HAL to thresholds to motion proposal i simply use a window comparator and output ADVANCE or RETRACT signals to hal hal knows the beginning and ending positions (limits) of the motion and an OFFSET component's input is inc'd/dec'd according to the
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
EBo, your name rings a bell all the way back to Paul Corner EMC days, you been arounf here a long time i think btw: mydynac ( and RayHenry's) approach could not reverse even 1 unit of measure the 'adaptive speed' method could only reduce forward velocity , can not reverse at all there was no dwell, no reverese, no wait till its ready to take a step this constant velocity is totally unsuited to EDM, the finaly mechanical driving element better to jiggly and nervous, else it aint repecting the process uncover the final gear or screw on any real working edm and watch, it approaches a smooth forward motion but IS jiggly and nervous. mydynac repairs cnc edm for a group in sugar grove illinois 'edm network' owned by Ron Vogel ( iirc) the work done more recently by Scott Haase in WI can reverse and is limited to an upper and lower bound (same as mine) his uses O-word gcode, mine is hal based ( limits sets by mcodes, and motion implemented thru 'offset' hal component ) his o-word may be easier to debug, dunno, but for immediacy, hal should prove mpre responsive because its 1 less layer of control the idea of orbitining is to use the distance moved away from the 'roughing point' to feed a sine and cosine generator and use that value to move XY along the surface of a circular cone. As the Z motion increases, the circle increases ( and drops ) if the process sees a redcuced input signal , ALL axis collapse to the that 'roughing point'. and for the edm gap voltage - arduino - threshold comparison - hal - motion loop of Mr Haase well there many layers removed by directly connecting a window comparator to a hal 'offset' comp regards tjtr33 -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
[Emc-developers] From Paolo
Is there now any interest in this announcement? Return-Path: rtai-boun...@rtai.org [...] From: mantega...@aero.polimi.it To: r...@rtai.org r...@rtai.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-PMX-Version: 5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2013.2.4.20 X-PMX-Spam: Gauge=XI, Probability=11%, Report=' PRIORITY_NO_NAME 0.716, HTML_00_01 0.05, HTML_00_10 0.05, BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_1000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_2000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_5000_LESS 0, BODY_SIZE_500_599 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, NO_REAL_NAME 0, NO_URI_FOUND 0, WEBMAIL_SOURCE 0, WEBMAIL_USER_AGENT 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __HAS_FROM 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HAS_REPLYTO 0, __HAS_X_PRIORITY 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __PHISH_SPEAR_HTTP_RECEIVED 0, __PHISH_SPEAR_STRUCTURE_1 0, __PHISH_SPEAR_STRUCTURE_2 0, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM 0, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_ACC 0, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_ADDY 0, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_DOMAIN 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_START 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NO_NAME 0, __USER_AGENT 0' Subject: [Rtai] hal-linux-3.5.7-x86-3.patch X-BeenThere: r...@rtai.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: mantega...@aero.polimi.it List-Id: rtai.rtai.org List-Unsubscribe: https://mail.rtai.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/rtai, mailto:rtai-requ...@rtai.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai List-Post: mailto:r...@rtai.org List-Help: mailto:rtai-requ...@rtai.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: https://mail.rtai.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rtai, mailto:rtai-requ...@rtai.org?subject=subscribe Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: rtai-boun...@rtai.org Errors-To: rtai-boun...@rtai.org X-procmail: user=gene X-Nasty: Aren't we? Status: R X-Status: N X-KMail-EncryptionState: X-KMail-SignatureState: X-KMail-MDN-Sent: Ciao, for those who want to help toward supporting RTAI for linux-3. I have poured an rtai patch for hal-linux-3.5.7 in MAGMA CVS (base/arc/x86/patches/hal-linux-3.5.7-x86-3.patch. Finally, this has worked almost at the first shot, while the previous ones for 3.2 and 3.4 did not work for me even in their original form. Right now the support I would like to have is checking if they are OK for somebody else, the mean of OK being: apply it and see if Linux runs without any problem for a bit of time and load. paolo ___ Rtai mailing list r...@rtai.org https://mail.rtai.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/rtai Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml Hard work never killed anybody, but why take a chance? -- Charlie McCarthy I was taught to respect my elders, but its getting harder and harder to find any... -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
2013/2/4 sam sokolik sa...@empirescreen.com: Oh - and this is kinda interesting... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTLs89YPtck Follow and translate the link in the description.. (interesting hack..) If anyone needs translation from Russian: The way this works is a g-code filter, which generates a reverse g-code for a particular g-code line and inserts it _before_ this particular g-code line with a / symbol in front of it. It seems like a change in Axis GUI script to redefine zoom-in and zoom-out buttons, so that it starts taking into account all the lines with / symbol in front of it, when asked to reverse. A little comment from me: It is obvious that this approach can easily reverse _current_ line being executed. But it is not clear to me, how to back up more than one line - it might be necessary if the code consists of really tiny G1 moves. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
If anyone needs translation from Russian: The way this works is a g-code filter, which generates a reverse g-code for a particular g-code line and inserts it _before_ this particular g-code line with a / symbol in front of it. It seems like a change in Axis GUI script to redefine zoom-in and zoom-out buttons, so that it starts taking into account all the lines with / symbol in front of it, when asked to reverse. A little comment from me: It is obvious that this approach can easily reverse _current_ line being executed. But it is not clear to me, how to back up more than one line - it might be necessary if the code consists of really tiny G1 moves. -- Viesturs Thanks Viesturs - now I understand what this code was doing: it set/resets block delete it abort execution then restarts a line behind or a line in front It's a really smart bit of thinking! def zoomin(event=None): c.set_block_delete(0) s.poll() c.abort() c.wait_complete() c.auto(linuxcnc.AUTO_RUN , (s.motion_line-1)) def zoomout(event=None): c.set_block_delete(1) s.poll() c.abort() c.wait_complete() c.auto(linuxcnc.AUTO_RUN , (s.motion_line+1)) -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
2013/2/4 Chris Morley chrisinnana...@hotmail.com: If anyone needs translation from Russian: The way this works is a g-code filter, which generates a reverse g-code for a particular g-code line and inserts it _before_ this particular g-code line with a / symbol in front of it. It seems like a change in Axis GUI script to redefine zoom-in and zoom-out buttons, so that it starts taking into account all the lines with / symbol in front of it, when asked to reverse. A little comment from me: It is obvious that this approach can easily reverse _current_ line being executed. But it is not clear to me, how to back up more than one line - it might be necessary if the code consists of really tiny G1 moves. -- Viesturs Thanks Viesturs - now I understand what this code was doing: You are welcome! it set/resets block delete it abort execution then restarts a line behind or a line in front It's a really smart bit of thinking! def zoomin(event=None): c.set_block_delete(0) s.poll() c.abort() c.wait_complete() c.auto(linuxcnc.AUTO_RUN , (s.motion_line-1)) def zoomout(event=None): c.set_block_delete(1) s.poll() c.abort() c.wait_complete() c.auto(linuxcnc.AUTO_RUN , (s.motion_line+1)) I read the whole thread, it seems that guys back there have some stability issues - it seems that it sometimes does not remain in auto mode. Not sure, if I understood correctly, but it seemed somewhat related to using those zoom-in and zoom-out buttons - in later posts they tried some commands to wait for auto mode and then continue (sorry, I do not understand python code, so cannot explain. In other post they receive error messages in Axis about cannot set TRAJ_SET_TELEOP_ENABLE in auto mode with interpreter idle, so it seems that there are some other workarounds to this, but not completely successful. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
Re: [Emc-developers] custom EDM configuration questions
Sure, you can say an EDM will never make a spindle synchronized move, but changes to the motion module need to do sane things regardless of what kind of a machine is being controlled. What about different motion modules optimized different classes of applications? Yes Peter I think your on the best track. Unfortunately that's a big chunk of code to try and understand to change it. I wish there was some way to write down the flow of linuxcnc and keep it current. It's like walking in the dark with a plain sheet of paper as a map :) Chris M -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_jan ___ Emc-developers mailing list Emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
