RE: Laser safety and Li-Po batteries
Peter I'll decline to answer your question re lasers, as I am sure others are more knowledgeable than I am. In answer to your question about batteries, I answered a similar question last week. The reply was:- Lithium batteries may be shipped installed in product. The UN No. is 3091. IATA regulations apply Packing Instruction 912, which states:- The General Packing Requirements of 5.0.2 must be met. Lithium batteries (liquid or solid cathode) contained in equipment must meet all the requirements of Packing Instruction 903 other than those relating to packaging, be protected against short circuits and be securely held in place. Cells must not be capable of being discharged during transport to the extent that the open circuit voltage is less than the lower of: (a) 2 Volts; or (b) 2/3 of the voltage of the undischarged cell. Equipment containing lithium batteries must be contained in strong outer packaging. The outer packaging must be waterproof or made waterproof through the use of a liner, such as a plastic bag, unless the equipment is made waterproof by nature of its construction. the equipmenmt must be secured against movement within the outer packaging and be packed so as to prevent accidental operation during air transport. The quantity of lithium metal contained in any piece of equipment must not exceed 12g per cell and 500g per battery. Not more than 5kg of lithium batteries may be contained in any piece of equipment. Neil Barker Manager Central Quality e2v 106 Waterhouse Lane, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 2QU, England Tel: +44 (0)1245 453616 Mobile: +44 (0)7801 723735 Fax:+44 (0)1245 453571 www.e2v.com http://www.e2v.com/ P Consider the environment: do you really need to print this e mail? -Original Message- From: Peter Weichel [mailto:r...@weichels.dk] Sent: 11 September 2008 21:33 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Laser safety and Li-Po batteries Hi experts, I have two topics for which i need information: a) Which standard(s) regulate the marking requirements for labels to be put on equipment using Class II laser devices ? And are there similar requirements for EU and USA ? b) Re. Li-Po batteries shipped inside equipment (internal) i wonder if IATA regulations or others sets a maximum level of charge on such batteries when shipped from factory. I.e. may a Li-Po battery be fully charged while shipping inside equipment ? Thanks and have a nice day, Peter Weichel Denmark __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ Sent by E2V TECHNOLOGIES PLC or a member of the E2V group of companies. A company registered in England and Wales. Company number; 04439718. Registered address; 106 Waterhouse Lane, Chelmsford, Essex, CM1 2QU, UK. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
Re. laser safety and Li-Po batteries
Hi guy´s, Thank you very much for all your kind answers, i will study the provide information carefully. Have a nice weekend all ;-) Best regards Peter - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Laser safety and Li-Po batteries
Hi Peter, IEC 60825-1 is the reference standard for laser devices labelling. In its EN version it is the reference for EU market. In the US the reference is 21 CFR part 1040.10, but FDA also recognizes IEC 60825-1. regards, Paolo --- Paolo Peruzzi Regulatory Medical RD El.En. S.p.A. Via Baldanzese, 17 50041 Calenzano (FI) Italy Tel. +39 055 8826807 FAX +39 055 8832884 standa...@elen.it mailto:standa...@elen.it http://www.elengroup.com/ http://www.elengroup.com/ Peter Weichel ha scritto: Hi experts, I have two topics for which i need information: a) Which standard(s) regulate the marking requirements for labels to be put on equipment using Class II laser devices ? And are there similar requirements for EU and USA ? b) Re. Li-Po batteries shipped inside equipment (internal) i wonder if IATA regulations or others sets a maximum level of charge on such batteries when shipped from factory. I.e. may a Li-Po battery be fully charged while shipping inside equipment ? Thanks and have a nice day, Peter Weichel Denmark - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Laser safety officer at test labs
It varies by state, but in Massachusetts you are required by state regulation and the Bureau of Public Health to comply with a set of regulations which includes a laser safety officer, http://www.mass.gov/Eeohhs2/docs/dph/regs/105cmr121.pdf much as you would if you were operating an X ray machine, using radioactive materials, etc. Bob Johnson ITE Safety http://www.itesafety.com Moshe Valdman wrote: Hi all, Test labs test all kinds of equipment in various tests (EMC, safety, HALT etc) Occasionally there might be high power lasers (class 3B or class 4) as part of the product tested in the lab Does this require the lab to have an LSO person (laser safety officer) and other special measures ro reduce risks of injury during the tests? thanks and regards, Moshe Valdman QA and reliability Enginner - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Laser safety officer at test labs
I am not a laser safety expert either – but in my opinion it would constitute the implementation of a Laser Safety Program which requires an LSO. Class 3B and 4 lasers require use of a LS manual, LS Training, LS processes, LS inspections and much more. The goal of this is to assure the safety of others and the operator when the laser is in use from accidental exposure. Mark Schmidt _ From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Moshe Valdman Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 8:58 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Laser safety officer at test labs Hi all, Test labs test all kinds of equipment in various tests (EMC, safety, HALT etc) Occasionally there might be high power lasers (class 3B or class 4) as part of the product tested in the lab Does this require the lab to have an LSO person (laser safety officer) and other special measures ro reduce risks of injury during the tests? thanks and regards, Moshe Valdman QA and reliability Enginner - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Laser safety officer at test labs
Product safety standards typically do not specify the required safety precautions for performing testing. The facility safety requirements are normally based on government regulations and corporate policies. I don't know the rules for most countries. In the United States, the basic rules are set out by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration in the Department of Labor (OSHA). In this case, OSHA has guidelines and references ANSI standards for specific practices. http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/laserhazards/standards.html I am not a laser expert and I encourage those who are to correct or amend the limited information I have provided. Ted Eckert APC-MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC-MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC-MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Moshe Valdman mvaldman@netvisi on.net.il To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 04/18/2008 07:57 Laser safety officer at test labs AM Hi all, Test labs test all kinds of equipment in various tests (EMC, safety, HALT etc) Occasionally there might be high power lasers (class 3B or class 4) as part of the product tested in the lab Does this require the lab to have an LSO person (laser safety officer) and other special measures ro reduce risks of injury during the tests? thanks and regards, Moshe Valdman QA and reliability Enginner - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Laser safety AEL calculation - angular subtense and C6
Kyaw: It may help to see IEC Technical Report TR 60825-10 Safety of laser products Part 10: Application guidelines and explanatory notes to IEC 60825-1, Sections 9 Intrabeam Viewing, and 10, Extended Source Viewing. Also see IEC Technical Report TR 60825-14 Safety of laser products Part 14: A user's guide, which is a guide to 60825-1, and contain numerous worked calculation examples, etc. These were written as informative and educational texts to the normative parts of IEC 60825-1. William T. Sykes Lucent Technologies EHS Product Safety/Conformance Manager Room 7B-516A 600-700 Mountain Avenue Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 (908)582-6937 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of KYAW HTIN AUNG Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 12:22 PM To: EMC PSTC Subject: Laser safety AEL calculation - angular subtense and C6 Dear Good People Our product is a class II laser scanning engine. The original source of laser is from a laser diode. It passes through a lens and strikes two subtended mirrors before it goes out for scanning. According to IEC 60825-1, AEL limit is defined as C6x10-3W where C6 is based on angular subtense (alpha). If alpha is less than or equal to alpha min, C6 = 1. If alpha is between min and max, C6 is alpha/alpha min where alpha min is 1.5mrad. The debate right now is how to define alpha value to get C6. I was told to consider it is intrabeam viewing so that alpha is always min and C6=1. I have no objection that it is intrabeam viewing but I do not accept that alpha is always min for intrabeam viewing. In our case, I consider it is an enlarged source, not a point source. Enlarged source will create enlarged image at the retina of our eye. So alpha will be greater than min value of 1.5mrad and C6 will be greater than 1. Anybody can shed the light on this topic? Or any reference to a good info source? Thanks in advance Kyaw Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: laser safety label
If the light source is an LED, there are no FDA requirements. The requiremens for lasers can be found in 21 CFR 1000-1010 and 1040. Also see the many publications and notices from the DHHS. http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/ Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Neil Helsby [mailto:nei...@solid-state-logic.com] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 10:58 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: laser safety label In the USA, what safety labels and/or manual information is required when a class 1 (fibre optic) device is fitted to a panel for equipment interconnection? Are the requirements the same as those for EN 60825-1? Many thanks for your assistance. Regards, Neil Helsby ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: laser safety label
I think you'll find all you need to know here; http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/comp/guidance/1346.html Douglas G. Frazee Regulatory Compliance Manager Lucent Technologies PSAX Division dfra...@lucent.com -Original Message- From: Neil Helsby [mailto:nei...@solid-state-logic.com] Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 10:58 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:laser safety label In the USA, what safety labels and/or manual information is required when a class 1 (fibre optic) device is fitted to a panel for equipment interconnection? Are the requirements the same as those for EN 60825-1? Many thanks for your assistance. Regards, Neil Helsby ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Laser safety questions
Well, In response to question 1, you may want to try for Class 1M. The new measurement geometries allow many class 3B lasers to be reclassified as 1M. I would assume (although I have no direct experience here) that the visible spectrum lasers would also benefit from the new geometries (BTW, the Class 1M spectrum is 302.5 to 4000nm). Wouldn't it be wonderful to have all Class 1(M) lasers?!! Best Regards, Dave Heald -Original Message- From: Gandler, Mark [mailto:mgand...@ciena.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 1:47 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Laser safety questions Hello Group, According to the new revision of IEC 60825-1 (2001-08) , there are following laser products classes: 1, 1M, 2, 2M , 3R , 3B and 4, instead of 1, 2 , 3A, 3B and 4 per previous revision. Question # 1 : should we change the labeling, let's say from 3A to 3R? Is it any timetable for implementation? The latest revision that I have for IEC 60825-2 is 2000-05 and classification there still 1,2,3A ,k 3A, 3B and 4. Question # 2 : is it any newer version of 60825-2 available? and if yes, what are the classes in it? Is it correct to assume that if somebody asking for laser power density , so I need to look for maximum permissible exposure (MPE)? If not , what it could be? If yes, what is the easiest (or only) way to calculate it? Let say the wavelength is 1550 nm, located on PCB , than after 10 mm or so is a connector, exposure is 100s. Any ideas? The MPE in the IEC table is 1000W/m2. Thank you in advance, Mark Gandler Ciena --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser safety questions
Mark, Regarding question #1 Perhaps your question is based on the misconception that in Europe and elsewhere we use IEC standards directly. This in fact is not the case. For Europe we use ENs agreed by CENELEC and published by national standards bodies, such as BSI. These ENs are frequently either based on, or identical to, IEC standards: however they are not IEC publications per se. The same is also true in other parts of the world, such as Australia. The OJEC list of standards offering a presumption of conformity with the LVD provides information that the second amendment to EN 60825-1 does provide a presumption of conformity with the LVD. Moreover, Amendment 2 (which contains the newer classifications) supersedes the earlier amendment (A11 - containing the older classifications) on 1 Jan 2004. Until 1 Jan 2004 you can you use the new or the old classifications, at your choice. Regarding question #2 No there is currently no published version of IEC (or EN) 60825-2 that references the newer Classes in Amendment 2 of 60825-1. IEC TC76, the committee responsible for the IEC 60825-x series of standards is, however, in the process of preparing such an update. In the interim the IEC have available an 'Interpretation Sheet' that explains how you could amend IEC 60825-2 to use the newer class designations. However, there is also disagreement regarding the value of this Interpretation Sheet: more I will not say. Finally, IEC 60825-2 does not contain any 'Class' designations. This standard has 'Hazard Level' designations which take into account the fact that optical networks may utilise high optical powers to transmit data along a contiguous fibre path providing that there is an Automatic Power Reduction feature (of adequate reliability) to decrease the output to a safe value in the event of a fault. Of course, the Hazard Level designations in part 2 refer to the AELs and MPEs for the corresponding Class in part 1. Opinions as always, Richard Hughes. -Original Message- From: Gandler, Mark [mailto:mgand...@ciena.com] Sent: 12 November 2002 18:47 To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Laser safety questions Hello Group, According to the new revision of IEC 60825-1 (2001-08) , there are following laser products classes: 1, 1M, 2, 2M , 3R , 3B and 4, instead of 1, 2 , 3A, 3B and 4 per previous revision. Question # 1 : should we change the labeling, let's say from 3A to 3R? Is it any timetable for implementation? The latest revision that I have for IEC 60825-2 is 2000-05 and classification there still 1,2,3A ,k 3A, 3B and 4. Question # 2 : is it any newer version of 60825-2 available? and if yes, what are the classes in it? Is it correct to assume that if somebody asking for laser power density , so I need to look for maximum permissible exposure (MPE)? If not , what it could be? If yes, what is the easiest (or only) way to calculate it? Let say the wavelength is 1550 nm, located on PCB , than after 10 mm or so is a connector, exposure is 100s. Any ideas? The MPE in the IEC table is 1000W/m2. Thank you in advance, Mark Gandler Ciena --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser safety questions
I read in !emc-pstc that Gandler, Mark mgand...@ciena.com wrote (in 4fb204c0ca96d54aa7805b3715620bdd13b...@w2ksjexg02.oni.com) about 'Laser safety questions' on Tue, 12 Nov 2002: According to the new revision of IEC 60825-1 (2001-08) , there are following laser products classes: 1, 1M, 2, 2M , 3R , 3B and 4, instead of 1, 2 , 3A, 3B and 4 per previous revision. Question # 1 : should we change the labeling, let's say from 3A to 3R? Is it any timetable for implementation? There are NO timetables associated with *IEC* standards, which are purely voluntary. There *IS* a timetable associated with an EN version, if there is one. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
I also thank you all that have responded. ---BeginMessage--- Thanks, I appreciate the input. Mark Schmidt Regulatory Compliance X-Rite Incorporated USA (616) 257 2469 mschm...@xrite.com mailto:mschm...@xrite.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list ---End Message---
RE: Laser Safety
Mark - My first inclination is to ask: do you need Class I? In the US, the higher classes of laser products primarily require labeling and additional information in instruction manuals. As stated by Doug McKean, 21CFR allows the fiber optic system connections to provide a level of safety, in the sense that an open or broken fiber is not considered. If the product will be marketing internationally, IEC60825-1, Class 3B does have some potential design requirements, but is otherwise significantly similar to 21CFR. For IEC60825-1, fiber disconnection (as a maintenance/service activity) and breakage (as a fault condition) is considered in determination of laser class. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: Mark Schmidt Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 11:17 AM I am trying to gain a better understanding of lasers and I have had some discussion and been told some things that don’t make much sense to me so I am asking the group for some guidance. Here is my question. If the unexpanded raw beam of a Class III b laser was incorporated into a larger system, is then expanded and used in this same system reducing the beam intensity to Class I levels. Would the overall system be classified as Class I ? Thanks. Mark Schmidt Regulatory Compliance X-Rite Incorporated U.S.A. (616) 257 2469 mschm...@xrite.com mailto:mschm...@xrite.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
Mark John - Since 21CFR is based on ANSI Z136.1, it seems the best of references. However, 21CFR is the ultimate judge for the US. ANSI Z136.2 is for fiber optic systems, rather than products, but is still a good reference. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: John Juhasz Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 12:28 PM Your best bet in classifying your 'system' is to look at ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs. In my opinion (some may disagree) it's a good guide. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
All - ANSI standards are not free, but some may be purchased in soft copy form and those standards are downloadable. If IEC60825-1 requirements are used for a product, you must review CDRH Laser Notice 50 to see how you are effected. This can't be a markings only type of thing; you have to use the whole standard. The certification marking mentioned in Laser Notice 50 is more verbose than the plain old 21CFR marking. Other marking differences exist for higher laser classes where the ANSI based logotype is replaced by IEC60825-1 markings. The harmonization project between IEC TC76 and 21CFR is ongoing. I don't know the status, but it's not completed. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: John Juhasz Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:47 AM I tried looking real hard for free downloadable ANSI specs and couldn't find them - I had to buy them. Regarding labelling, there have been efforts (not sure of the status at this time - is there anyone out there who knows?) to harmonize the EN 60825 and 21CFR1040 to make it easier on manufacturers. As the final laser classifications are parallel (it's the methodology that has differences) the FDA, in the interest of manufacturer satisfaction(?) has been allowing the use of the Classification/Warning labels as described in EN 60825. But you still have to add the FDA-CDRH label This product complies with FDA Radiation Performance Standard 21 CFR Subpart J Hope this helps. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
Regarding the comment John made (snipped below), I think that in some regards, regulatory warnings are partially to blame for installers/users not paying proper attention to safety requirements. In North America, the tendency is to require verbose, rambling warnings that tend to include so much redundant or even irrelevant information that the user just ignores them. This is in general contrast to the tendency in Europe, where warnings are kept short and punchy, or even totally replaced by eye-catching symbols. One can imagine ol' Bubba the installer faced with a warning containing a paragraph of legalistic run-on sentences that cannot seem to get to the point in a concise manner. He is simply going to ignore the whole thing. A case in point is the FCC Class B warning on consumer electronic equipment. Is there anyone on the planet who has actually bothered to fully read this warning? Seems to me that this is a general problem that ought to be addressed. Bob Wilson TIR Systems Ltd. Vancouver. -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [mailto:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com] Sent: March 6, 2002 6:17 AM To: 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety [Snip] In my opinion, whether or not the installers/service/end-user is trained or not (sometimes the trained are worse because they tend to be over-confident and throw caution to the wind) it's worth marking the areas on/in the product as well as putting references in the manual. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
Hello All, Yes, the FDA permits the use of IEC 825 labelling in lieu of CFR1040 labelling. However, note that IEC 825 permits the Class 1 label to be in the instructions rather than on the product. The FDA requires you to have the Class 1 labelling on the product. This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [mailto:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 4:47 PM To: 'Davis, Mike'; 'Doug Mckean'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety I tried looking real hard for free downloadable ANSI specs and couldn't find them - I had to buy them. Regarding labelling, there have been efforts (not sure of the status at this time - is there anyone out there who knows?) to harmonize the EN 60825 and 21CFR1040 to make it easier on manufacturers. As the final laser classifications are parallel (it's the methodology that has differences) the FDA, in the interest of manufacturer satisfaction(?) has been allowing the use of the Classification/Warning labels as described in EN 60825. But you still have to add the FDA-CDRH label This product complies with FDA Radiation Performance Standard 21 CFR Subpart J Hope this helps. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Davis, Mike [mailto:mda...@c-cor.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:26 AM To: 'Doug Mckean'; 'John Juhasz'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety I agree with Doug and with John but, I have the same question. And I will add, Doug is speaking of the FDA-CDRH requirement for the US. But, to ascertain what the European mode is, this requires a single-fault condition for classification as described by John Juhasz. That, I understand. John, is there a free downloadable copy of ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs? I have used the calculations to determine the classification of a laser based on the no fault and a single fault mode. These lasers are operating in a pulsed mode at a 50% duty cycle. I have attached a sample calculation of a 1310nmn and a 1550nm laser that I used to determine that the lasers either do or do not fall within the Class 1 laser classification. Another question... Can the same label be used for FDA as for IEC? Has anyone had any feedback or problems with laser labels that deviated from recommended markings by the 21 CFR or IEC 825-1? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser Safety
Gary, agreed. It must be clearly stated. As Jon Curtis mentioned, this is a very tricky declaration but one I've done. Also, in another post, I mentioned that some agencies will challange disconnect of the receive end leaving the fiber live. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser Safety
Yes, Jon, thanks. Again, I was being very specific about the caveats for this declaration. Also, not only breaks with fiber, but there are some European agencies which have challanged the fact that if the fiber connection to the receiver end of the fiber is disconnected, there is a live end of the fiber capable of Class IIIb exposure. Proceed with caution. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser Safety
Hi Mark, I was very specific about the conditions of the declaration. Scuse me for being a lawyer, but in order to do the type of declaration I mentioned, you must clearly state that all laser ports be populated even during service or maintainance. Regards, Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser Safety
Hi Mark, Absolutely. The thing is to do with this type of declaration to the FDA, which I've done, you have to state that any connection or disconnection of fiber cables shall be done only when the equipment is powered off AND that prior to power up for any service maintainance and/or normal use that ALL fiber connections to the laser transceivers be made. In other words, during normal use, service or maintainance, the intent of the product is to have ALL lasing be in the fiber - i.e. all laser transceiver ports are populated with fiber. All this has to be clearly stated to the end user in the documentation. Regards, Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. You may be interested in this. It is Laser Notice 50 from CDRH allowing conformance to the EN60825-1 Am2. There are still CDRH requirements you must follow but this certainly lightens the load. Regards, Josh -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [mailto:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:47 AM To: 'Davis, Mike'; 'Doug Mckean'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety I tried looking real hard for free downloadable ANSI specs and couldn't find them - I had to buy them. Regarding labelling, there have been efforts (not sure of the status at this time - is there anyone out there who knows?) to harmonize the EN 60825 and 21CFR1040 to make it easier on manufacturers. As the final laser classifications are parallel (it's the methodology that has differences) the FDA, in the interest of manufacturer satisfaction(?) has been allowing the use of the Classification/Warning labels as described in EN 60825. But you still have to add the FDA-CDRH label This product complies with FDA Radiation Performance Standard 21 CFR Subpart J Hope this helps. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Davis, Mike [mailto:mda...@c-cor.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:26 AM To: 'Doug Mckean'; 'John Juhasz'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety I agree with Doug and with John but, I have the same question. And I will add, Doug is speaking of the FDA-CDRH requirement for the US. But, to ascertain what the European mode is, this requires a single-fault condition for classification as described by John Juhasz. That, I understand. John, is there a free downloadable copy of ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs? I have used the calculations to determine the classification of a laser based on the no fault and a single fault mode. These lasers are operating in a pulsed mode at a 50% duty cycle. I have attached a sample calculation of a 1310nmn and a 1550nm laser that I used to determine that the lasers either do or do not fall within the Class 1 laser classification. Another question... Can the same label be used for FDA as for IEC? Has anyone had any feedback or problems with laser labels that deviated from recommended markings by the 21 CFR or IEC 825-1? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list fda.pdf Description: Binary data
RE: Laser Safety
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. Attached is Laser Notice 50 issued by the CDRH in 2001. It allows you to use comparable sections from IEC 60825-1/A2 which includes labeling. Jack -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [mailto:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:47 AM To: 'Davis, Mike'; 'Doug Mckean'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety I tried looking real hard for free downloadable ANSI specs and couldn't find them - I had to buy them. Regarding labelling, there have been efforts (not sure of the status at this time - is there anyone out there who knows?) to harmonize the EN 60825 and 21CFR1040 to make it easier on manufacturers. As the final laser classifications are parallel (it's the methodology that has differences) the FDA, in the interest of manufacturer satisfaction(?) has been allowing the use of the Classification/Warning labels as described in EN 60825. But you still have to add the FDA-CDRH label This product complies with FDA Radiation Performance Standard 21 CFR Subpart J Hope this helps. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Davis, Mike [mailto:mda...@c-cor.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:26 AM To: 'Doug Mckean'; 'John Juhasz'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety I agree with Doug and with John but, I have the same question. And I will add, Doug is speaking of the FDA-CDRH requirement for the US. But, to ascertain what the European mode is, this requires a single-fault condition for classification as described by John Juhasz. That, I understand. John, is there a free downloadable copy of ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs? I have used the calculations to determine the classification of a laser based on the no fault and a single fault mode. These lasers are operating in a pulsed mode at a 50% duty cycle. I have attached a sample calculation of a 1310nmn and a 1550nm laser that I used to determine that the lasers either do or do not fall within the Class 1 laser classification. Another question... Can the same label be used for FDA as for IEC? Has anyone had any feedback or problems with laser labels that deviated from recommended markings by the 21 CFR or IEC 825-1? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list laser_notice_50.pdf Description: Binary data
RE: Laser Safety
My experience with labeling is as long as all the required information is available you can use a single label. In fact on my product I have two labels the first indicates the opening with AVOID EXPOSURE - Laser Light Emitted From This Aperture. The second has the IEC label information, FDA information, model number, date code, address, and other useless information. -Original Message- From: Davis, Mike [mailto:mda...@c-cor.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:26 AM To: 'Doug Mckean'; 'John Juhasz'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety I agree with Doug and with John but, I have the same question. And I will add, Doug is speaking of the FDA-CDRH requirement for the US. But, to ascertain what the European mode is, this requires a single-fault condition for classification as described by John Juhasz. That, I understand. John, is there a free downloadable copy of ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs? I have used the calculations to determine the classification of a laser based on the no fault and a single fault mode. These lasers are operating in a pulsed mode at a 50% duty cycle. I have attached a sample calculation of a 1310nmn and a 1550nm laser that I used to determine that the lasers either do or do not fall within the Class 1 laser classification. Another question... Can the same label be used for FDA as for IEC? Has anyone had any feedback or problems with laser labels that deviated from recommended markings by the 21 CFR or IEC 825-1?
RE: Laser Safety
John, The CDRH web site has Laser Notice No. 50 that covers Laser Products - Conformance with IEC60825-1, - - that is believe is the document you are looking for. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfTopic/topicindex/topindx .cfm?alpha=l Wayne Thomas Product Safety Engineering Customer Quality Assurance Tektronix Inc. 503 - 627 - 4058 -Original Message- From: John Juhasz [mailto:jjuh...@fiberoptions.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 6:47 AM To: 'Davis, Mike'; 'Doug Mckean'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE: Laser Safety I tried looking real hard for free downloadable ANSI specs and couldn't find them - I had to buy them. Regarding labelling, there have been efforts (not sure of the status at this time - is there anyone out there who knows?) to harmonize the EN 60825 and 21CFR1040 to make it easier on manufacturers. As the final laser classifications are parallel (it's the methodology that has differences) the FDA, in the interest of manufacturer satisfaction(?) has been allowing the use of the Classification/Warning labels as described in EN 60825. But you still have to add the FDA-CDRH label This product complies with FDA Radiation Performance Standard 21 CFR Subpart J Hope this helps. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Davis, Mike [mailto:mda...@c-cor.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:26 AM To: 'Doug Mckean'; 'John Juhasz'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety I agree with Doug and with John but, I have the same question. And I will add, Doug is speaking of the FDA-CDRH requirement for the US. But, to ascertain what the European mode is, this requires a single-fault condition for classification as described by John Juhasz. That, I understand. John, is there a free downloadable copy of ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs? I have used the calculations to determine the classification of a laser based on the no fault and a single fault mode. These lasers are operating in a pulsed mode at a 50% duty cycle. I have attached a sample calculation of a 1310nmn and a 1550nm laser that I used to determine that the lasers either do or do not fall within the Class 1 laser classification. Another question... Can the same label be used for FDA as for IEC? Has anyone had any feedback or problems with laser labels that deviated from recommended markings by the 21 CFR or IEC 825-1? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser Safety
See laser notice 50 from the FDA. http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/radhlth/laser.html It's allowed, but you have to change the certification statement to indicate that you are using the notice. Jon Curtis Curtis-Straus LLC John Juhasz wrote: I tried looking real hard for free downloadable ANSI specs and couldn't find them - I had to buy them. Regarding labelling, there have been efforts (not sure of the status at this time - is there anyone out there who knows?) to harmonize the EN 60825 and 21CFR1040 to make it easier on manufacturers. As the final laser classifications are parallel (it's the methodology that has differences) the FDA, in the interest of manufacturer satisfaction(?) has been allowing the use of the Classification/Warning labels as described in EN 60825. But you still have to add the FDA-CDRH label This product complies with FDA Radiation Performance Standard 21 CFR Subpart J Hope this helps. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Davis, Mike [mailto:mda...@c-cor.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:26 AM To: 'Doug Mckean'; 'John Juhasz'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety I agree with Doug and with John but, I have the same question. And I will add, Doug is speaking of the FDA-CDRH requirement for the US. But, to ascertain what the European mode is, this requires a single-fault condition for classification as described by John Juhasz. That, I understand. John, is there a free downloadable copy of ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs? I have used the calculations to determine the classification of a laser based on the no fault and a single fault mode. These lasers are operating in a pulsed mode at a 50% duty cycle. I have attached a sample calculation of a 1310nmn and a 1550nm laser that I used to determine that the lasers either do or do not fall within the Class 1 laser classification. Another question... Can the same label be used for FDA as for IEC? Has anyone had any feedback or problems with laser labels that deviated from recommended markings by the 21 CFR or IEC 825-1? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list -- Jon D. Curtis, P.E. Director of Engineering Curtis-Straus LLC NRTL TCB One Stop Laboratory for NEBS, EMC, Product Safety, and Telecom Testing. 527 Great Road Littleton, MA 01460 USA Voice 978-486-8880 Fax 978-486-8828 email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser Safety
Use caution once again. IEC 60825-2 is NOT single fault. You need to go further and consider if a condition is reasonable foreseeable even if you need multiple faults to get there. Often there is congruence between single fault and reasonably foreseeable, but not always. From 60825-2: reasonably foreseeable event event the occurrence of which under given circumstances can be predicted fairly accurately, and the occurrence probability or frequency of which is not low or very low. Examples of reasonably foreseeable events might include the following: component failure, fibre cable break, optical connector disconnection, operator error or inattention to safe working practices. Reckless use or use for completely inappropriate purposes is not to be considered as a reasonably foreseeable event The assessment of hazard levels shall always consider worst case conditions, including reasonably foreseeable fault conditions (see 4.4.3). Consequently, it may be necessary to include multiple fault conditions, the probability of which shall be judged by the responsible organization. NOTE Whereas IEC 60825-1 refers to single fault conditions, it may be reasonably foreseeable that more than one fault will combine to cause a dangerous situation. FDA laser notice 50 issued in July of 2001 allows you to harmonize with IEC 60825-1, so as long as you slightly modify your FDA certification statement label to note that you are using the deviations in Notice 50 you can use the IEC 60825 labels. The FDA is contemplating a rule making to adopt the IEC versions and has therefore put manufacturers on notice that they will not take enforcement action against those choosing to use the IEC standards. Note that you still have additional administrative requirements under the CDRH rules. Jon Curtis Curtis-Straus LLC Davis, Mike wrote: I agree with Doug and with John but, I have the same question. And I will add, Doug is speaking of the FDA-CDRH requirement for the US. But, to ascertain what the European mode is, this requires a single-fault condition for classification as described by John Juhasz. That, I understand. John, is there a free downloadable copy of ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs? I have used the calculations to determine the classification of a laser based on the no fault and a single fault mode. These lasers are operating in a pulsed mode at a 50% duty cycle. I have attached a sample calculation of a 1310nmn and a 1550nm laser that I used to determine that the lasers either do or do not fall within the Class 1 laser classification. Another question... Can the same label be used for FDA as for IEC? Has anyone had any feedback or problems with laser labels that deviated from recommended markings by the 21 CFR or IEC 825-1? Subject: Re: Laser Safety From: Doug Mckean dmck...@corp.auspex.com Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:16:54 -0500 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Do the acid test type question ... During normal use, what are you exposing the end user to? For instance, with a laser pointer using a Class IIIb laser that emits unprotected from the pointer, the pointer is Class IIIb. If instead, you are using a Class IIIb laser for fiber optic communication and the entire beam is contained within the fiber, no lasing is emitted from the product during normal operation and/or service or maintainance, then you *could* declare the telco product as Class I. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list -- Jon D. Curtis, P.E. Director of Engineering Curtis-Straus LLC NRTL TCB One Stop Laboratory for NEBS, EMC, Product Safety, and Telecom Testing. 527 Great Road Littleton, MA 01460 USA Voice 978-486-8880 Fax 978-486-8828 email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM
RE: Laser Safety
Doug, I don't think this is accurate, unless you had a signal detect etc that shut the beam off when the interconnecting cable is removed. These cables are typically removable SC, LC or TC, or TNC type connectors. Removing them just leaves an open aperture for folks to stare into. So I would think that you would need some sort of interlock. Gary -Original Message- From: Doug Mckean [mailto:dmck...@corp.auspex.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 2:17 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Laser Safety Do the acid test type question ... During normal use, what are you exposing the end user to? For instance, with a laser pointer using a Class IIIb laser that emits unprotected from the pointer, the pointer is Class IIIb. If instead, you are using a Class IIIb laser for fiber optic communication and the entire beam is contained within the fiber, no lasing is emitted from the product during normal operation and/or service or maintainance, then you *could* declare the telco product as Class I. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
Yes indeed, Jon makes a good point which I should've mentioned in my response as well (as I have been down this road). If you are fortunate enough to have input with regard to cabling consider specifying fiber optic cables which comply with IEC 794-2 with inherent mechanical protection are considered less likely to break. John Juhasz FIber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Jon Curtis [mailto:j...@curtis-straus.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:23 AM To: Doug Mckean Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Laser Safety Use caution with this approach. IEC 60825-2 is specifically for Optical Fiber Communications Systems (OFCS) and requires the consideration of fiber breaks exposing humans to the laser energy contained within. 60825-2 is referenced in 60825-1 and must be considered for OFCS. Additionally, you need to consider where the fiber goes as a break might occur downstream and expose not only direct users of the equipment. Jon Curtis Curtis-Straus LLC Doug Mckean wrote: Do the acid test type question ... During normal use, what are you exposing the end user to? For instance, with a laser pointer using a Class IIIb laser that emits unprotected from the pointer, the pointer is Class IIIb. If instead, you are using a Class IIIb laser for fiber optic communication and the entire beam is contained within the fiber, no lasing is emitted from the product during normal operation and/or service or maintainance, then you *could* declare the telco product as Class I. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list -- Jon D. Curtis, P.E. Director of Engineering Curtis-Straus LLC NRTL TCB One Stop Laboratory for NEBS, EMC, Product Safety, and Telecom Testing. 527 Great Road Littleton, MA 01460 USA Voice 978-486-8880 Fax 978-486-8828 email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
I tried looking real hard for free downloadable ANSI specs and couldn't find them - I had to buy them. Regarding labelling, there have been efforts (not sure of the status at this time - is there anyone out there who knows?) to harmonize the EN 60825 and 21CFR1040 to make it easier on manufacturers. As the final laser classifications are parallel (it's the methodology that has differences) the FDA, in the interest of manufacturer satisfaction(?) has been allowing the use of the Classification/Warning labels as described in EN 60825. But you still have to add the FDA-CDRH label This product complies with FDA Radiation Performance Standard 21 CFR Subpart J Hope this helps. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Davis, Mike [mailto:mda...@c-cor.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 9:26 AM To: 'Doug Mckean'; 'John Juhasz'; 'Mark Schmidt'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety I agree with Doug and with John but, I have the same question. And I will add, Doug is speaking of the FDA-CDRH requirement for the US. But, to ascertain what the European mode is, this requires a single-fault condition for classification as described by John Juhasz. That, I understand. John, is there a free downloadable copy of ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs? I have used the calculations to determine the classification of a laser based on the no fault and a single fault mode. These lasers are operating in a pulsed mode at a 50% duty cycle. I have attached a sample calculation of a 1310nmn and a 1550nm laser that I used to determine that the lasers either do or do not fall within the Class 1 laser classification. Another question... Can the same label be used for FDA as for IEC? Has anyone had any feedback or problems with laser labels that deviated from recommended markings by the 21 CFR or IEC 825-1? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. I agree with Doug and with John but, I have the same question. And I will add, Doug is speaking of the FDA-CDRH requirement for the US. But, to ascertain what the European mode is, this requires a single-fault condition for classification as described by John Juhasz. That, I understand. John, is there a free downloadable copy of ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs? I have used the calculations to determine the classification of a laser based on the no fault and a single fault mode. These lasers are operating in a pulsed mode at a 50% duty cycle. I have attached a sample calculation of a 1310nmn and a 1550nm laser that I used to determine that the lasers either do or do not fall within the Class 1 laser classification. Another question... Can the same label be used for FDA as for IEC? Has anyone had any feedback or problems with laser labels that deviated from recommended markings by the 21 CFR or IEC 825-1? ---BeginMessage--- Do the acid test type question ... During normal use, what are you exposing the end user to? For instance, with a laser pointer using a Class IIIb laser that emits unprotected from the pointer, the pointer is Class IIIb. If instead, you are using a Class IIIb laser for fiber optic communication and the entire beam is contained within the fiber, no lasing is emitted from the product during normal operation and/or service or maintainance, then you *could* declare the telco product as Class I. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list ---End Message--- Laser Class calculation.doc Description: MS-Word document
Re: Laser Safety
Use caution with this approach. IEC 60825-2 is specifically for Optical Fiber Communications Systems (OFCS) and requires the consideration of fiber breaks exposing humans to the laser energy contained within. 60825-2 is referenced in 60825-1 and must be considered for OFCS. Additionally, you need to consider where the fiber goes as a break might occur downstream and expose not only direct users of the equipment. Jon Curtis Curtis-Straus LLC Doug Mckean wrote: Do the acid test type question ... During normal use, what are you exposing the end user to? For instance, with a laser pointer using a Class IIIb laser that emits unprotected from the pointer, the pointer is Class IIIb. If instead, you are using a Class IIIb laser for fiber optic communication and the entire beam is contained within the fiber, no lasing is emitted from the product during normal operation and/or service or maintainance, then you *could* declare the telco product as Class I. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list -- Jon D. Curtis, P.E. Director of Engineering Curtis-Straus LLC NRTL TCB One Stop Laboratory for NEBS, EMC, Product Safety, and Telecom Testing. 527 Great Road Littleton, MA 01460 USA Voice 978-486-8880 Fax 978-486-8828 email: jcur...@curtis-straus.com WWW.CURTIS-STRAUS.COM --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
Mark, The ANSI spec (in Z136.2) provides specific info for OFCS (Optical Fiber Communications Systems). This specific information relates to, among other things, installation location/product accessibility and personnel exposure/training and marking. ANSI developed 'Service Group'(SG) classifications, with the previously mentioned items lumped-in with the laser Class. For the most part the SG classification tracks the laser Class - Class I = SG1 . . Class 3b = SG3b. Are the installation/service personnel also the end-user/operator? Is there a possibility for the end-user, at any time, access the 3b without much difficulty? If yes, the manual would indeed be an additional place for a statement relating to 3b.. ANSI specifies that in SG3b areas (even if it's inside the product itself) must be marked with a DANGER statement see the spec for details). Also worth noting is that those who will be exposed to Class IIIb - installation or service personnel (which puts the product in the SG3b category) as you noted have to be trained. Only authorized trained personnel shall be permitted to install or perform service on SG3a, SG3b, or SG4 OFCS. In my opinion, whether or not the installers/service/end-user is trained or not (sometimes the trained are worse because they tend to be over-confident and throw caution to the wind) it's worth marking the areas on/in the product as well as putting references in the manual. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Mark Schmidt [mailto:mschm...@xrite.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 8:09 AM To: Doug Mckean; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Laser Safety Hi Doug, During normal use the operator could be exposed to Class I. Service personnel and installation would require potential exposure to Class IIIb. Should the operators manual make reference to this. Also, wouldn't you have to warn the operator and service personnel with text in the manual and warning signs in the IIIb compartment of the system ? Thank you, Mark Schmidt Regulatory Compliance X-Rite Incorporated USA (616) 257 2469 mschm...@xrite.com -Original Message- From: Doug Mckean [mailto:dmck...@corp.auspex.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:17 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Re: Laser Safety Do the acid test type question ... During normal use, what are you exposing the end user to? For instance, with a laser pointer using a Class IIIb laser that emits unprotected from the pointer, the pointer is Class IIIb. If instead, you are using a Class IIIb laser for fiber optic communication and the entire beam is contained within the fiber, no lasing is emitted from the product during normal operation and/or service or maintainance, then you *could* declare the telco product as Class I. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All
RE: Laser Safety
Hi Doug, During normal use the operator could be exposed to Class I. Service personnel and installation would require potential exposure to Class IIIb. Should the operators manual make reference to this. Also, wouldn't you have to warn the operator and service personnel with text in the manual and warning signs in the IIIb compartment of the system ? Thank you, Mark Schmidt Regulatory Compliance X-Rite Incorporated USA (616) 257 2469 mschm...@xrite.com -Original Message- From: Doug Mckean [mailto:dmck...@corp.auspex.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:17 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Re: Laser Safety Do the acid test type question ... During normal use, what are you exposing the end user to? For instance, with a laser pointer using a Class IIIb laser that emits unprotected from the pointer, the pointer is Class IIIb. If instead, you are using a Class IIIb laser for fiber optic communication and the entire beam is contained within the fiber, no lasing is emitted from the product during normal operation and/or service or maintainance, then you *could* declare the telco product as Class I. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser Safety
Do the acid test type question ... During normal use, what are you exposing the end user to? For instance, with a laser pointer using a Class IIIb laser that emits unprotected from the pointer, the pointer is Class IIIb. If instead, you are using a Class IIIb laser for fiber optic communication and the entire beam is contained within the fiber, no lasing is emitted from the product during normal operation and/or service or maintainance, then you *could* declare the telco product as Class I. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Laser Safety
While it is technically possible to have a Class IIIb-capable component laser in a Class I 'system' the path there is not clear cut. Besides the emitter's technical issues (AEL, exposure time, radiant power, wavelength, to name only a few) you have to take in consideration the failure modes of the laser driver circuitry - that Class I limits can be exceeded in event of failure, whether the system is a closed system (beam accessibility during service/normal use), the products installation location and acessbility to unauthorized personnel etc. Your best bet in classifying your 'system' is to look at ANSI Z136.1 and .2 specs. In my opinion (some may disagree) it's a good guide. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Mark Schmidt [mailto:mschm...@xrite.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 2:17 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Laser Safety I am trying to gain a better understanding of lasers and I have had some discussion and been told some things that don’t make much sense to me so I am asking the group for some guidance. Here is my question. If the unexpanded raw beam of a Class III b laser was incorporated into a larger system, is then expanded and used in this same system reducing the beam intensity to Class I levels. Would the overall system be classified as Class I ? Thanks. Mark Schmidt Regulatory Compliance X-Rite Incorporated U.S.A. (616) 257 2469 mschm...@xrite.com mailto:mschm...@xrite.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Laser Safety
Matt Kilkenny mkilke...@opthos.com I have a question on lasers for ITE concerning IEC-825 and FDA requirements. According to IEC, class 3b lasers have to have safety doors (interlocks). Can automatic power reduction be used if you are not pumping the laser to a 3b class level of power. In other words, can we not put interlocks on the system if the 3b laser power has been reduced to a 3a or class 1 level through microprocessor limitating it? Or is their single fault concerns if the microprocessor fails? Thanks for any help, Doesn't this then make the microprocessor an interlock device and, as such, you'd have to go through every single state of the microprocessor for single fault analysis? - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
[Fwd: Re: Laser Safety]
Forwarded for Bert Planting. Original Message Subject: Re: Laser Safety List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 06:59:41 +0200 From: Bert Planting bert.plant...@asml.com Organization: ASML To: Matt Kilkenny mkilke...@opthos.com CC: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org References: 0954d2e4fe26d411909100b0d022a345191...@mail.opthos.com Matt, Because you are using a microprocessor limitating it this is not seen as sufficient safe solution for reduction of the output by safety people (based on my experience with US third parties). Reduction should only be done by hardware and not by fault sensitive microprocessor. In this case you should use an interlock. regards, Bert Planting Prodct safety ASML Matt Kilkenny wrote: I have a question on lasers for ITE concerning IEC-825 and FDA requirements. According to IEC, class 3b lasers have to have safety doors (interlocks). Can automatic power reduction be used if you are not pumping the laser to a 3b class level of power. In other words, can we not put interlocks on the system if the 3b laser power has been reduced to a 3a or class 1 level through microprocessor limitating it? Or is their single fault concerns if the microprocessor fails? Thanks for any help, Matt Kilkenny mkilke...@opthos.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Laser Safety
Sorry, simple test. -Original Message- From: Matt Kilkenny mkilke...@opthos.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:08 PM Subject: Laser Safety I have a question on lasers for ITE concerning IEC-825 and FDA requirements. According to IEC, class 3b lasers have to have safety doors (interlocks). Can automatic power reduction be used if you are not pumping the laser to a 3b class level of power. In other words, can we not put interlocks on the system if the 3b laser power has been reduced to a 3a or class 1 level through microprocessor limitating it? Or is their single fault concerns if the microprocessor fails? Thanks for any help, Matt Kilkenny mkilke...@opthos.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Laser Safety
Matt: In this case only interlocks can be applicable because practically somebody can get in danger with 3b laser (worse case). Yuriy Vygovskiy Engineering Design Compliance -Original Message- From: Matt Kilkenny mkilke...@opthos.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Friday, June 15, 2001 2:08 PM Subject: Laser Safety I have a question on lasers for ITE concerning IEC-825 and FDA requirements. According to IEC, class 3b lasers have to have safety doors (interlocks). Can automatic power reduction be used if you are not pumping the laser to a 3b class level of power. In other words, can we not put interlocks on the system if the 3b laser power has been reduced to a 3a or class 1 level through microprocessor limitating it? Or is their single fault concerns if the microprocessor fails? Thanks for any help, Matt Kilkenny mkilke...@opthos.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Laser Safety
Matt, Yes, There is a concern on the failure at least a single fault - but I believe the IEC 825 requires a double fault protection, but others may know more. You would have to know what the faults of the micro are fail, on fail off, is there a software routine that can cause the problem (and trust me you don't want to go there. If you knew how the micro failed and how it causes the laser to exceed your permissible limits then rather than trying to figure out all the ways the system could fail in a laser hazardous mode, you may be able to produce in your circuitry methods for fault protection. This circuitry and the components that make it up would then become critical and controlled components which would require tracking and verification. Gary -Original Message- From: Matt Kilkenny [mailto:mkilke...@opthos.com] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 11:21 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Laser Safety I have a question on lasers for ITE concerning IEC-825 and FDA requirements. According to IEC, class 3b lasers have to have safety doors (interlocks). Can automatic power reduction be used if you are not pumping the laser to a 3b class level of power. In other words, can we not put interlocks on the system if the 3b laser power has been reduced to a 3a or class 1 level through microprocessor limitating it? Or is their single fault concerns if the microprocessor fails? Thanks for any help, Matt Kilkenny mkilke...@opthos.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Laser Safety Product Labeling
Thomas, You need consulting from a renowned laser specialist. I recommend you contact my colleague at TUV Rheinland of North America Woody Strzelecki at TUV Rheinland of North America; he will guide you to exactly what is required. His e-mail is wstrzele...@us.tuv.com. One note I have to mention is that classification is made based on normal conditions and single fault conditions. Good luck and do not look into that fiber! At 11:27 21/11/2000 -0800, Courtland Thomas wrote: Hello group, Does anyone have any experience with product labeling equipment, that use lasers. I have a situation where a Class 3B laser is used, however after the power attenuation through the fiber cable, the output power is only 800uW max. This power actually could be considered Class 2, however the wavelength is 1300nm, which falls into the invisible light spectrum. Therefore, I plan to label the product Class 3A. If there are any errors in my reasoning, please let me know. I want to place a caution label (all that is required for this output level) on the top of the product, but my marketing people don't want it displayed there because they feel that it may hamper sales. Unfortunately, marketing has too much authority, so I am looking for a standard that mandates where the label should go. Everything I have read only makes suggestions, but I need more than that. Thanks in advance, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Peter Merguerian Managing Director Product Testing Division I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. Hacharoshet 26, POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: 972-3-5339022 Fax: 972-3-5339019 e-mail: pmerguer...@itl.co.il website: http://www.itl.co.il TO LEARN ABOUT AUSTRALIAN AND NEW ZEALAND REQUIREMENTS, CONTACT ME AT THE EARLIEST STAGES OF YOUR DESIGN; REQUIREMENTS CAN BE TRICKY! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Laser Safety Product Labeling
Courtland . . . With regards to the fiber optic cable that you make reference to, is that the 'pigtail' from the laser device? Or is that the actual installation fiber? If the output power is from the far end of an installed fiber, then I would not make that classification. The output power is what is available at the product itself without the fiber installed. Someone can turn the unit on without a fiber installed and look into the connector (although one would assume that people would know better. But you know where assupmtions get you . . . ). The other consideration is the location of where the product will ultimately be installed. Is it in a 'restricted access' location? Or is it in an 'unrestricted location' where any idiot can mess with it? That is another variable in determining classification and what engineering controls are/are not required. With specific reference to the label, I would put it near the 'aperture' from which the beam is accessible. That makes the most sense. Once again, the CDRH will check that in the report you file wiht them. The argument from your marketing dept. has 'some' merit. Personally, I don't think it's going to affect sales. If your product is 'commercial' equipment as opposed to consumer, then I would like to think (I am assuming again)that your customer base is educated about such products. Obviously your customers know that they're buying a laser product? The alternative is getting a lawsuit from the customer because there was no warning and someone now has retinal damage.Then the CDRH will definitely be reviewng your file. John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY -Original Message- From: Courtland Thomas [mailto:ctho...@patton.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2000 2:27 PM To: emcpost Subject: Laser Safety Product Labeling Hello group, Does anyone have any experience with product labeling equipment, that use lasers. I have a situation where a Class 3B laser is used, however after the power attenuation through the fiber cable, the output power is only 800uW max. This power actually could be considered Class 2, however the wavelength is 1300nm, which falls into the invisible light spectrum. Therefore, I plan to label the product Class 3A. If there are any errors in my reasoning, please let me know. I want to place a caution label (all that is required for this output level) on the top of the product, but my marketing people don't want it displayed there because they feel that it may hamper sales. Unfortunately, marketing has too much authority, so I am looking for a standard that mandates where the label should go. Everything I have read only makes suggestions, but I need more than that. Thanks in advance, Courtland Thomas Patton Electronics --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Laser Safety-Thanks
Group, Of course I'll share! A few people have contacted me offline, and I have sent them the 4 pdf files that I have found. I'm not going to post them to the whole group because there are 4 pdf (Adobe) files which would hog up all sorts of server space at the good old IEEE. BUT, ANYONE INTERESTED IN GETTING THESE APP NOTES IS INVITED TO EMAIL ME DIRECTLY AT chr...@gnlp.com. I WILL FORWARD THE PDF FILES TO YOU. If you want to go fishing for yourself, three of the pdf files (AB I-008, AB I-009 and AB I-015) are at the Agilent website at: http://www.semiconductor.agilent.com/led_lamps/app_index.html See y'all later, Chris -Original Message- From: Joe Finlayson [SMTP:jfinlay...@telica.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 3:20 PM To: 'Maxwell, Chris' Subject: RE: Laser Safety-Thanks Hi Chris, Any chance of forwarding this app note to the group? Thx, Joe Joe Finlayson Manager, Compliance Engineering Telica, Inc. 734 Foster Street, Bldg. G, Suite 100 Marlboro, MA 01752 Tel: (508) 480-0909 x212 Fax: (508) 480-0922 Email:jfinlay...@telica.com -Original Message- From: Maxwell, Chris [mailto:chr...@gnlp.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 8:20 AM To: 'EMC-PSTC Internet Forum' Subject: Laser Safety-Thanks All, Thank you to all who have responded to my inquiry regarding laser safety calculations. I want to publicly stress my appreciation to the guys at Agilent who went the extra mile to forward an app note. I really appreciate that because our company and Agilent make some products that compete with one another. I think that it speaks really well of their company that they would offer me some assistance. Overall, I think it speaks well of the group, showing that we're just as concerned about quality products and public safety as we are about our company's bottom line. Thanks Chris Maxwell, Design Engineer GN Nettest Optical Division 6 Rhoads Drive, Building 4 Utica, NY 13502 PH: 315-797-4449 FAX: 315-797-8024 EMAIL: chr...@gnlp.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Laser Safety Calculations
Hi Rich, Sounds reasonable. Actually, it sounds like a tool that a transciever vendor would offer on a webpage to assist their customers in development using that vendors' component... Has anyone come across such a thing ? Regards, George -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 3:28 PM To: george.sparac...@bostonacoustics.com; chr...@gnlp.com Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Laser Safety Calculations Hi George and Chris: Better still, TC76 should provide a spreadsheet such that, upon entering all the data, the spreadsheet does the calculations and gives you the emission level and the emission Class. Regards, Rich
Re: Laser Safety Calculations
Hi George and Chris: Better still, TC76 should provide a spreadsheet such that, upon entering all the data, the spreadsheet does the calculations and gives you the emission level and the emission Class. Regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: Laser Safety Calculations
Chris, Try contacting Donald Drozdenko at HP (Aligent) at 408-435-5807. Don headed the testing / certification efforts for HP's Laser Led products back when 825 first emerged. Another person who may be able to help is Dr. Joseph Tajnai (408)435-6331, also from HP and member of TC76. Good Luck, George -Original Message- From: Maxwell, Chris [mailto:chr...@gnlp.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:34 AM To: 'EMC-PSTC Internet Forum' Subject: Laser Safety Calculations All, I too share the sentiments of another member of the group that the calculations for laser safety in EN 60825-1 are made somewhat more difficult to follow due to the difficulty of reading the diagrams and the symbols. I myself have looked at the diagrams a few times and can't figure out what symbol is representing what angle ... I would love to see a few examples and more complete descriptions of the nomenclature. Is there a text out there, either commercial or from IEC that goes through these calculations in more detail? Thanks in advance Chris Maxwell, Design Engineer GN Nettest Optical Division 6 Rhoads Drive, Building 4 Utica, NY 13502 PH: 315-797-4449 FAX: 315-797-8024 EMAIL: chr...@gnlp.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: laser safety requirements in Japan
Hello Kris, The requirements using LASERS for ITE's in JAPAN is the same IEC60825. You know Japan has JIS standards . JIS C6802 for LASERS are full of quotations from IEC60825. Sincerely yours. 516-1106 108 Yokowa-cho Ise-city Mie-ken A-pex International Co.,Ltd. 2nd Division EMC Yokowa Lab. Tetsuya Hashimoto TEL 0596-39-1485 FAX 0596-39-0232 E-mail: has...@a-pex.co.jp -Original Message- ·ol : kris carpentier product safety lab kristiaan.carpent...@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be ¶æ : emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org ú : 1998N912ú 2:40 ¼ : laser safety requirements in Japan Does anyone know what the requirements are in JAPAN for Information Technology equipment using LASERS. Is IEC60825 used or do they have their own requirements? Regards, Kris emc-p...@ieee.org - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.com with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.co (the list administrators).
re: Laser-Safety(1)
We have several UL people stationed at KEMA in the Netherlands that should be able to help you out. Contact: Hamid Syed fax: 011-31-26443-3282 e-mail: 100770.1...@compuserve.com I do not have any of the direct contacts for KEMA at hand, but if you would prefer that approach, let me know and I will dig them up. You will also be able to get that info. from Hamid. _ Bob M. Miller Underwriters Laboratories Inc. Voice : (408) 985-2400 x32382 1655 Scott Blvd. Fax: (408) 296-3256 Santa Clara, CA 95050 E-mail: mill...@ul.com _
Re: Laser Safety in EN61010-1
EN61010-1 was listed as a harmonised standard under the LVD in November 1993 (OJ 93/C319/02). IEC825 is cited directly in section 2.1 of EN61010-1 as a normative reference but would in any event be invoked by by section 14.1 that states that where safety is involved components shall comply with applicable safety requirements in relevant IEC standards. Ammendment 2 to EN61010-1 (although this is not yet listed ) expands further on this use of IEC standards and gives a little flow chart on their application. Having said all this it should be borne in mind that compliance to harmonised standards is not absolutely mandatory for compliance with the LVD. The catch is that if you do not fully conform, then from next year you will need detailed documentation in advance of marketing showing how you achieve equivalent safety to that given by the harmonised standards. Nick Rouse
