[Emc-users] error with joint mode

2010-09-04 Thread Viesturs Lācis
Hello!

I am asking this question here for the 3rd time and I hope that
finally someone will answer:

EMC2 is switching from world mode to joint mode, if I go from manual
control tab to MDI tab. I have EMC 2.4.3.1 version on Lucid, and
unfortunately I do not know, how exactly I can replicate this error,
because usually, when I go to MDI tab, EMC stays in world mode.

Problem is that I have a gantry machine and, this error is breaking
the machine, when I try to jog.

What can I do about it? What information should I provide?

Thank You in advance!

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] error with joint mode

2010-09-04 Thread Andy Pugh
On 4 September 2010 13:01, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote:

 EMC2 is switching from world mode to joint mode, if I go from manual
 control tab to MDI tab. I have EMC 2.4.3.1 version on Lucid, and
 unfortunately I do not know, how exactly I can replicate this error,
 because usually, when I go to MDI tab, EMC stays in world mode.

 Problem is that I have a gantry machine and, this error is breaking
 the machine, when I try to jog.

 What can I do about it?

I wonder if a workaround would be to set the jog speed to zero when
the machine is not in coordinated mode?
I am not entirely clear on how the flags change in the various modes,
but I think you can find the mode with:
motion.coord-mode
motion.teleop-mode



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Re: [Emc-users] error with joint mode

2010-09-04 Thread Stuart Stevenson
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hello!

 I am asking this question here for the 3rd time and I hope that
 finally someone will answer:

 EMC2 is switching from world mode to joint mode, if I go from manual
 control tab to MDI tab. I have EMC 2.4.3.1 version on Lucid, and
 unfortunately I do not know, how exactly I can replicate this error,
 because usually, when I go to MDI tab, EMC stays in world mode.

 Problem is that I have a gantry machine and, this error is breaking
 the machine, when I try to jog.

 What can I do about it? What information should I provide?


 Thank You in advance!

 Viesturs

 Viesturs,
  I have not done this so my answer is theoretical not empirical. My
approach would be as follows:

set up X1 as a normal axis homing with the index pulse on the X encoder
set up X2 as U (in the .ini file) using the encoder feedback from X1 as the
movement commands for U (X2). This would cause U (X2) to be a slave to X1.
the U axis would also home from the U axis encoder's index pulse
I would match the drive system (motors and amps) for both gantry drives and
tune them exactly the same.
I don't know how much alignment error is permissible in your setup ie - how
much X position error is allowed before machine damage - surely there is
some
I would set up home sequence to home both X and U at the same time.
I would set up both home switches to trip as close to the same time as
possible with the goal of homing U first.
I would adjust each encoder so the index pulse is in the correct radial
location for X and U to get your timing correct and minimize axis
misalignment.
I would use home offset on U to do the alignment adjustment as any motion of
X would drive U.
It would be possible to use hal to disable homing on X until U is homed to
ensure U homes first. This would probably cause the most misalignment and
stress on the machine but with the correct encoder adjustment and home
switch adjustment this could be greatly minimized.

connecting U (X2) as a slave to X1 would cause U to move any time X moved
without regard to modes (I think)
hope this helps
thanks
Stuart

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Re: [Emc-users] error with joint mode

2010-09-04 Thread Viesturs Lācis

 hope this helps
 thanks
 Stuart


No offence, but it didn't :))
I have joint0 and joint1 explicitly assigned to X axis in my kinematics module.
In joint mode each joint (motor) is moved independently, no
assignements to any axis are in effect in joint mode. That is why it
is called joint mode.

I think that my current homing works very well and please accept my
apologies, but I do not understand, what does homing have to do with
EMC switching to joint mode on its own.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] error with joint mode

2010-09-04 Thread Stuart Stevenson
homing has nothing to do with the switching - it was just part of the
explanation of what I would do
I would not set up the kinematics to drive the second X axis motor. I would
set it up to follow the first X axis motor. Then the movement mode would
make no difference.

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 
  hope this helps
  thanks
  Stuart
 

 No offence, but it didn't :))
 I have joint0 and joint1 explicitly assigned to X axis in my kinematics
 module.
 In joint mode each joint (motor) is moved independently, no
 assignements to any axis are in effect in joint mode. That is why it
 is called joint mode.

 I think that my current homing works very well and please accept my
 apologies, but I do not understand, what does homing have to do with
 EMC switching to joint mode on its own.

 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] error with joint mode

2010-09-04 Thread Viesturs Lācis
Ok, now I got it, but I am convinced that it would not work in joint
mode anyway. Please correct me, if I am wrong. Each joint is
completely independent in joint mode, AFAIK EMC is built so that
assignements between joints and axes are ignored in joint mode, so
also Your suggestion with use of U axis would not work, because, as
You said, in homing U is homed separately, so it is treated as
separate joint in joint mode.

 There would be an option to modify the LPT cable so that X step and X
dir signals go to 2 pins and so that 2 drives receive those signals.
But this option automatically excludes the possibility of homing each
gantry side separately.
But I need separate control of each gantry side so that machine is
squared and kept straight each time.

Viesturs

2010/9/4 Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com:
 homing has nothing to do with the switching - it was just part of the
 explanation of what I would do
 I would not set up the kinematics to drive the second X axis motor. I would
 set it up to follow the first X axis motor. Then the movement mode would
 make no difference.

 On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Viesturs Lācis 
 viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 
  hope this helps
  thanks
  Stuart
 

 No offence, but it didn't :))
 I have joint0 and joint1 explicitly assigned to X axis in my kinematics
 module.
 In joint mode each joint (motor) is moved independently, no
 assignements to any axis are in effect in joint mode. That is why it
 is called joint mode.

 I think that my current homing works very well and please accept my
 apologies, but I do not understand, what does homing have to do with
 EMC switching to joint mode on its own.

 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] error with joint mode

2010-09-04 Thread Stuart Stevenson
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 Ok, now I got it, but I am convinced that it would not work in joint
 mode anyway. Please correct me, if I am wrong. Each joint is
 completely independent in joint mode, AFAIK EMC is built so that
 assignements between joints and axes are ignored in joint mode, so
 also Your suggestion with use of U axis would not work, because, as
 You said, in homing U is homed separately, so it is treated as
 separate joint in joint mode.

 I believe you are correct to say in joint mode each joint is driven
independently by EMC2. The kinematics blending does not apply. Correction
please if I am incorrect on this.
BUT BUT if the driving signal for the U axis drive comes from the X encoder
then the joint mode out of EMC2 (motion or interpreter?) would have no
effect on the motion of the U axis.
You would have no provision for the U axis in your kinematics therefore when
the kinematics is not effective the U axis would not be disabled. The U axis
is configured to follow the X axis at all times and in all modes.



  There would be an option to modify the LPT cable so that X step and X
 dir signals go to 2 pins and so that 2 drives receive those signals.
 But this option automatically excludes the possibility of homing each
 gantry side separately.
 But I need separate control of each gantry side so that machine is
 squared and kept straight each time.

 Viesturs

 2010/9/4 Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com:
  homing has nothing to do with the switching - it was just part of the
  explanation of what I would do
  I would not set up the kinematics to drive the second X axis motor. I
 would
  set it up to follow the first X axis motor. Then the movement mode would
  make no difference.
 
  On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Viesturs Lācis 
 viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:
 
  
   hope this helps
   thanks
   Stuart
  
 
  No offence, but it didn't :))
  I have joint0 and joint1 explicitly assigned to X axis in my kinematics
  module.
  In joint mode each joint (motor) is moved independently, no
  assignements to any axis are in effect in joint mode. That is why it
  is called joint mode.
 
  I think that my current homing works very well and please accept my
  apologies, but I do not understand, what does homing have to do with
  EMC switching to joint mode on its own.
 
  Viesturs
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Two Z-Axes? (IOW, can I motorize the knee)

2010-09-04 Thread Jon Elson
Jon Elson wrote:

 Right, so at least with EMC2, the spindle is not a named axis, as the 
 only command
 it will follow is speed (S) and direction (M02, M04).
   
That should be M03, M04.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] error with joint mode

2010-09-04 Thread Alex Joni
  Some further data would be nice:
- start emc from a terminal, use some DEBUG (at least that you get the 
mode change messages), pastebin a change (manual/mdi) when it happens, 
one when it doesn't
- what GUI are you using?

Regards,
Alex


On 9/4/2010 3:01 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 Hello!

 I am asking this question here for the 3rd time and I hope that
 finally someone will answer:

 EMC2 is switching from world mode to joint mode, if I go from manual
 control tab to MDI tab. I have EMC 2.4.3.1 version on Lucid, and
 unfortunately I do not know, how exactly I can replicate this error,
 because usually, when I go to MDI tab, EMC stays in world mode.

 Problem is that I have a gantry machine and, this error is breaking
 the machine, when I try to jog.

 What can I do about it? What information should I provide?

 Thank You in advance!

 Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] error with joint mode

2010-09-04 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2010/9/4 Alex Joni alex.j...@robcon.ro:
  Some further data would be nice:
 - start emc from a terminal, use some DEBUG (at least that you get the
 mode change messages), pastebin a change (manual/mdi) when it happens,
 one when it doesn't
 - what GUI are you using?

 Regards,
 Alex


I am using Axis GUI.
My apologies, I am just too unexperienced with Linux, so I did not
completely get the DEBUG part. Could You, please, provide some link,
where is explained, what and how should I do to get the terminal
window show the necessary data?
Thanks for Your patience!

Viesturs

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[Emc-users] html motion help

2010-09-04 Thread Stuart Stevenson
Gentemen,
  I just noticed the html motion help only has motion.tooloffset.w -
motion.tooloffset.x - motion.tooloffset.z - the others are not there.
  Not a big deal as there is not a lot of information about each of them.
thanks
Stuart

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[Emc-users] tool change

2010-09-04 Thread Stuart Stevenson
Gentlemen,
  I am working on the tool change for the Enshu. The spindle and the axes
are working. I need to be able to inhibit the tool change sequence if the Z
axis is NOT in tool change position. I have been unable to understand how to
do this.
comments? suggestions? solutions?
thanks
Stuart

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Re: [Emc-users] tool change

2010-09-04 Thread Chris Radek
On Sat, Sep 04, 2010 at 05:00:17PM -0500, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 Gentlemen,
   I am working on the tool change for the Enshu. The spindle and the axes
 are working. I need to be able to inhibit the tool change sequence if the Z
 axis is NOT in tool change position. I have been unable to understand how to
 do this.
 comments? suggestions? solutions?
 thanks
 Stuart

If Z tool change location is Z=0, you can put
[EMCIO]TOOL_CHANGE_QUILL_UP=1 to make it always lift up all the way
when you do M6.

You can also have a [EMCIO]TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION defined, containing
all three axes, if you want to move the table to a safe location.

On my VMC I have both of these defind, so it goes up all the way and
then moves the table so the arm has room to swing.

For additional safety I also set up my ladder to require the Z home
switch to be activated in order for a tool change to run.  This would
avoid a smashup if for some reason EMC forgot to move Z up.  (This
has never happened...)

If you don't have your home switch in such a convenient location
(and can't move it) maybe you can use a wcomp component on your Z
position:  http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/wcomp.9.html

There is some information about the various tool change location
variables here: 

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[EMCIO]-Section


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Re: [Emc-users] tool change

2010-09-04 Thread Stuart Stevenson
thanks - I will check this out

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Chris Radek ch...@timeguy.com wrote:

 On Sat, Sep 04, 2010 at 05:00:17PM -0500, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
  Gentlemen,
I am working on the tool change for the Enshu. The spindle and the axes
  are working. I need to be able to inhibit the tool change sequence if the
 Z
  axis is NOT in tool change position. I have been unable to understand how
 to
  do this.
  comments? suggestions? solutions?
  thanks
  Stuart

 If Z tool change location is Z=0, you can put
 [EMCIO]TOOL_CHANGE_QUILL_UP=1 to make it always lift up all the way
 when you do M6.

 You can also have a [EMCIO]TOOL_CHANGE_POSITION defined, containing
 all three axes, if you want to move the table to a safe location.

 On my VMC I have both of these defind, so it goes up all the way and
 then moves the table so the arm has room to swing.

 For additional safety I also set up my ladder to require the Z home
 switch to be activated in order for a tool change to run.  This would
 avoid a smashup if for some reason EMC forgot to move Z up.  (This
 has never happened...)

 If you don't have your home switch in such a convenient location
 (and can't move it) maybe you can use a wcomp component on your Z
 position:  http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/man/man9/wcomp.9.html

 There is some information about the various tool change location
 variables here:


 http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/config_ini_config.html#sub:[EMCIO]-Section



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Re: [Emc-users] Enshu progress

2010-09-04 Thread Stuart Stevenson
Gentlemen,
  here are some more pictures - to prove the Enshu is a complete machine :)

http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/enshu/pictures/Gallery/IMG_20100829_152131.jpg
http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/enshu/pictures/Gallery/IMG_20100829_152155.jpg
http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/enshu/pictures/Gallery/IMG_20100829_152208.jpg
http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/enshu/pictures/Gallery/IMG_20100829_152223.jpg
http://www.mpm1.com:8080/machines/enshu/pictures/Gallery/IMG_20100829_152245.jpg

thanks
Stuart
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Re: [Emc-users] tool change

2010-09-04 Thread Jon Elson
Chris Radek wrote:

 For additional safety I also set up my ladder to require the Z home
 switch to be activated in order for a tool change to run.  This would
 avoid a smashup if for some reason EMC forgot to move Z up.  (This
 has never happened...)
   
I was thinking to link it to a specific value (+/- small variation) of
ppmc.0.encoder.02.position (I know Stuart is using the PPMC on this machine)
but if the axis somehow got unhomed this
would allow toolchange at the wrong position.  Requiring the home switch 
to be tripped
is a GREAT idea!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Enshu progress

2010-09-04 Thread Jon Elson
Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 Gentlemen,
   here are some more pictures - to prove the Enshu is a complete machine :)
   
MMmmm, nice machine.  But, darn, too tall for my basement!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] tool change

2010-09-04 Thread Stuart Stevenson
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 Chris Radek wrote:
 
  For additional safety I also set up my ladder to require the Z home
  switch to be activated in order for a tool change to run.  This would
  avoid a smashup if for some reason EMC forgot to move Z up.  (This
  has never happened...)
 
 I was thinking to link it to a specific value (+/- small variation) of
 ppmc.0.encoder.02.position (I know Stuart is using the PPMC on this
 machine)
 but if the axis somehow got unhomed this
 would allow toolchange at the wrong position.  Requiring the home switch
 to be tripped
 is a GREAT idea!

  I think I like your idea for this as the home switch I am using for Y and
Z is a long cam instead of a point cam. This would give me too long of a
position to have the home switch opened (the home/limit switches are
normally closed). This made me scratch my head for a few minutes while
trying to set up homing. I looked at the ppmc input and saw it was closed
all the time while the machine was no where near the home switch.
  I will have EMC verify both the machine is homed pin and a position from
ppmc. I will home the machine and use an offset to adjust the home/tool
change position. I will use that offset value as my check value for
verifying the tool change position.
  The spindle servo amp is a true servo drive. The speed control is +10
volts for max clockwise spindle speed and -10 volts for max counterclockwise
spindle speed. It has an encoder on the spindle motor with AB feedback to
the amp. It does not have an index pulse (we have not found one). It may
have an index pulse out of the spindle motor encoder but it is not wired in.
With a two speed gearbox the index pulse would not work for accurate spindle
positioning. I will install an encoder on the spindle.


 Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] tool change

2010-09-04 Thread Chris Radek
On Sat, Sep 04, 2010 at 09:27:42PM -0500, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

   The spindle servo amp is a true servo drive. The speed control is +10
 volts for max clockwise spindle speed and -10 volts for max counterclockwise
 spindle speed. It has an encoder on the spindle motor with AB feedback to
 the amp. It does not have an index pulse (we have not found one). It may
 have an index pulse out of the spindle motor encoder but it is not wired in.
 With a two speed gearbox the index pulse would not work for accurate spindle
 positioning. I will install an encoder on the spindle.

On my machine I hooked one of the A/B channels also to index.  For
normal tapping you just make one pass anyway, so orientation isn't
important.  This just gives lots of index pulses, so when you tap
it just starts moving right away.

A mill is not like a lathe spindle where every thread is multipass and
they have to line up.

With a proper index you can peck tap, but I have never wanted to do
that.

Chris

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Re: [Emc-users] tool change

2010-09-04 Thread Chris Radek
On Sat, Sep 04, 2010 at 09:46:35PM -0500, Daniel Goller wrote:

 We peck tap a lot, so I would love to see emc2 do that.

It's easy if your spindle encoder has index

G33.1 K.05 Z-.1
G33.1 K.05 Z-.2
G33.1 K.05 Z-.3


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Re: [Emc-users] tool change

2010-09-04 Thread Jon Elson
Chris Radek wrote:
 On Sat, Sep 04, 2010 at 09:27:42PM -0500, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

   
   The spindle servo amp is a true servo drive. The speed control is +10
 volts for max clockwise spindle speed and -10 volts for max counterclockwise
 spindle speed. It has an encoder on the spindle motor with AB feedback to
 the amp. It does not have an index pulse (we have not found one). It may
 have an index pulse out of the spindle motor encoder but it is not wired in.
 With a two speed gearbox the index pulse would not work for accurate spindle
 positioning. I will install an encoder on the spindle.
 

 On my machine I hooked one of the A/B channels also to index.  For
 normal tapping you just make one pass anyway, so orientation isn't
 important.  This just gives lots of index pulses, so when you tap
 it just starts moving right away.
   
Some people have to do peck tapping, restarting the tap into the hole 
and going to
a greater depth each pass.  Stuart might need that with some of the 
aerospace alloys
he works with.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] tool change

2010-09-04 Thread Daniel Goller
How far does this reverse before going to new depth?

And not only space alloys need it, helps in duplex stainless too.

On Sep 4, 2010 9:59 PM, Chris Radek ch...@timeguy.com wrote:

On Sat, Sep 04, 2010 at 09:46:35PM -0500, Daniel Goller wrote:

 We peck tap a lot, so I would love...
It's easy if your spindle encoder has index

G33.1 K.05 Z-.1
G33.1 K.05 Z-.2
G33.1 K.05 Z-.3



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