Re: [Emc-users] Beam Stiffening?

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

 See cable beam stifferDo on 3 or 4 sides.Be safeDale
코스피

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코스피

코스피
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On Monday, May 13, 2024 at 08:07:14 PM EDT, Dale Ertley  
wrote:  
 
  Small blocks on the outside middle of beam on 3 or 4 sides of the beam with 
small aircraft cable attached to each end pulled tight.
Use small turn buckles to tighten the cables over the block on that one 
side.You may be able to reduce the mass of the beam with the added stiffness of 
the blocks and cables.
Be safe.
Dale
On Monday, May 13, 2024 at 07:31:34 PM EDT, Ralph Stirling via Emc-users 
 wrote:  
 
 Can you run a steel cable through it and tension it?  Might stiffen it up some.

-- Ralph

On May 13, 2024 1:46 PM, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users 
 wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


Anyone have any brilliant ideas to stiffen a woefully inadequate cross beam on 
a gantry router without adding too much mass?  What is there now is a 4" x 8" 
rectangular 3/8" walled extrusion that is 145" long.

Under normal jogging commands the two servos control the ends of this gantry 
reasonably well, but while the axis is homing the thing shakes and wobbles 
terribly bad.  Also If I put a dial indicator in the center of the bridge and 
hit the bridge forward or backward it will flex and wobble enough to displace 
the dial indicator +/-0.03 and it takes nearly a dozen wobbles to dampen it.  
But on the ends the servo's only have a few thousandths of give.

I'm less concerned about the actual stiffness and more worried about dampening 
the wobble.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn 
Inc.<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pgrahamdunn.com%2Findex.php=05%7C02%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7Cdff9590d43bf4306dbf908dc738db7c0%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C638512299731202212%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=p5p5BPV0oMEOCFeZea6DUqIke%2BXV8qgx9DzXe3NCQRs%3D=0<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php>>
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031


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Re: [Emc-users] Beam Stiffening?

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

 Small blocks on the outside middle of beam on 3 or 4 sides of the beam with 
small aircraft cable attached to each end pulled tight.
Use small turn buckles to tighten the cables over the block on that one 
side.You may be able to reduce the mass of the beam with the added stiffness of 
the blocks and cables.
Be safe.
Dale
On Monday, May 13, 2024 at 07:31:34 PM EDT, Ralph Stirling via Emc-users 
 wrote:  
 
 Can you run a steel cable through it and tension it?  Might stiffen it up some.

-- Ralph

On May 13, 2024 1:46 PM, Todd Zuercher via Emc-users 
 wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


Anyone have any brilliant ideas to stiffen a woefully inadequate cross beam on 
a gantry router without adding too much mass?  What is there now is a 4" x 8" 
rectangular 3/8" walled extrusion that is 145" long.

Under normal jogging commands the two servos control the ends of this gantry 
reasonably well, but while the axis is homing the thing shakes and wobbles 
terribly bad.  Also If I put a dial indicator in the center of the bridge and 
hit the bridge forward or backward it will flex and wobble enough to displace 
the dial indicator +/-0.03 and it takes nearly a dozen wobbles to dampen it.  
But on the ends the servo's only have a few thousandths of give.

I'm less concerned about the actual stiffness and more worried about dampening 
the wobble.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn 
Inc.<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pgrahamdunn.com%2Findex.php=05%7C02%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7Cdff9590d43bf4306dbf908dc738db7c0%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C638512299731202212%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C=p5p5BPV0oMEOCFeZea6DUqIke%2BXV8qgx9DzXe3NCQRs%3D=0<http://www.pgrahamdunn.com/index.php>>
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031


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Re: [Emc-users] HAAS file

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

 John you can email me a copy and I will look at it.daleertl...@yahoo.com

On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 11:28:41 AM EDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
 
 Thanks Dale,
I've reached out to the retired machinist.  I'm thinking now it might be 
CAD/CAM software with the G-Code embedded inside it.
https://www.gibbscam.com/en
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Dale Ertley via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: March 21, 2024 7:52 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Cc: Dale Ertley
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] HAAS file
> 
> 
> Have you looked at the files with a text editor.�Notepad should works.
> It may be a G code file but just made on the machine and not in a cad
> software.
> I have gone to Cimco Edit to see where a file is messed
> up.https://www.cimco.com/software/cimco-edit/That is after the post
> output.
> Sorry I don't have a copy now.
> Dale
>    On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 01:55:55 AM EDT, John Dammeyer
>  wrote:
> 
>  I received a couple of .VNC files used on a HAAS to make heat sinks.� The
> company that did them has closed down but the owner was kind enough to
> give
> me the files on a zip drive.� Not only that he also gave me a 1/8" 3 flute
> Niagara cutter used to cut the fins along with verbal instructions on how he
> did things.
> 
> Is it possible to translate those files into G-Code?� I did the original
> drawings.� I could do G-Code using my AlibreCAM from MecSoft.� But I'd
> like
> to be able to look at what the HAAS was told to do.
> 
> Is there a way to translate these files?� They are too big to attach but I
> can email them if someone knows how to do this.
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] HAAS file

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

 
Have you looked at the files with a text editor. Notepad should works.
It may be a G code file but just made on the machine and not in a cad software.
I have gone to Cimco Edit to see where a file is messed 
up.https://www.cimco.com/software/cimco-edit/That is after the post output.
Sorry I don't have a copy now.
Dale
On Thursday, March 21, 2024 at 01:55:55 AM EDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
 
 I received a couple of .VNC files used on a HAAS to make heat sinks.  The
company that did them has closed down but the owner was kind enough to give
me the files on a zip drive.  Not only that he also gave me a 1/8" 3 flute
Niagara cutter used to cut the fins along with verbal instructions on how he
did things.

Is it possible to translate those files into G-Code?  I did the original
drawings.  I could do G-Code using my AlibreCAM from MecSoft.  But I'd like
to be able to look at what the HAAS was told to do.

Is there a way to translate these files?  They are too big to attach but I
can email them if someone knows how to do this.
Thanks
John



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Re: [Emc-users] Semi OT: Variable speed DC drive for Fanuc brushed DC spindle drive

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

 Leonardo
Thank you for your reply.
If you get the Machdrives please let us know if they are easy to tune.The Tuna 
software looks easy to use and appears to be full featured but you can never 
tell till you use it.If you do order, order soon. International shipping takes 
several weeks.I asked if they wanted me to be a stocking US dealer. They said 
no.

I went with the 160 volt drives as that gives me some voltage head room to 
prevent shutdown on a voltage surge.

Be safeDale


On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 11:53:48 AM EST, Leonardo Marsaglia 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Dale,

Thanks for the info. Those might well serve me in case of using the
original DC servos the machine has.

El vie, 9 feb 2024 a las 21:37, Dale Ertley via Emc-users (<
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>) escribió:

> I have 4 drives am going to try from Machdrives.com. They use Tuna
> graphical software to tune the drives.It is going to be a few months till I
> get them installed. I will post results then.
> Be safe.
>
>
> BRF Servo DriveAUD$159
>  A high performance, 160V 20A brushed DC servo drive. Ideal for CNC mills,
> routers, lathes and plasma cutters.
>    - 20-160VDC 20A brushed DC servo drive.
>    - Standard isolated PUL/DIR/ENA/ALM interface
>    - Pluggable connectors for easy installation.
>    - Direct controllers support from 3VDC to 30VDC.
>    - Flexible mounting L chassis open frame design.
>    - High efficiency. Minimal heatsinking required.
>    - 9 LED indicators for easy setup and diagnostics.
>    - All digital operation with 32bit ARM CPU.
>    - Smooth silent operation. No dithering.
>    - Easy tuning with free Tuna™ software for Windows.
>    - Safe, easy setup with opto-isolated USB port.
>    - Voltage, current and temperature protection.
>    - Compact light design - 115x74x20mm and 115g .
>    - Designed and manufactured in Australia.
>    On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 05:06:49 PM EST, Leonardo Marsaglia <
> ldmarsag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Hello guys, I hope you're doing well
>
> We just purchased a Mori Seiki SL3 lathe that's going to be
> retrofitted with LCNC because it has no control.
>
> The machine has a brushed DC spindle motor and from what they told me the
> DC drive was not working (I would like to check this but I couldn't find
> any info or manuals for this drive, the model number of the drive is
> A20B-0008-0372/02). I would like to keep this motor because I like the idea
> of having high torque at low speeds because I plan to use a milling and
> hobbing attachment with this lathe.
>
> I'm trying to find DC speed controllers of 15 kW or so, just to take a look
> at what it's available but it seems difficult to find something that big.
> Do you guys recommend any particular brand or source to find such a speed
> controller?
>
> Thanks as always.
>
> Leonardo
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Semi OT: Variable speed DC drive for Fanuc brushed DC spindle drive

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

I have 4 drives am going to try from Machdrives.com. They use Tuna graphical 
software to tune the drives.It is going to be a few months till I get them 
installed. I will post results then.
Be safe.


BRF Servo DriveAUD$159
 A high performance, 160V 20A brushed DC servo drive. Ideal for CNC mills, 
routers, lathes and plasma cutters. 
   - 20-160VDC 20A brushed DC servo drive.
   - Standard isolated PUL/DIR/ENA/ALM interface
   - Pluggable connectors for easy installation.
   - Direct controllers support from 3VDC to 30VDC.
   - Flexible mounting L chassis open frame design.
   - High efficiency. Minimal heatsinking required.
   - 9 LED indicators for easy setup and diagnostics.
   - All digital operation with 32bit ARM CPU.
   - Smooth silent operation. No dithering.
   - Easy tuning with free Tuna™ software for Windows.
   - Safe, easy setup with opto-isolated USB port.
   - Voltage, current and temperature protection.
   - Compact light design - 115x74x20mm and 115g .
   - Designed and manufactured in Australia.
On Friday, February 9, 2024 at 05:06:49 PM EST, Leonardo Marsaglia 
 wrote:  
 
 Hello guys, I hope you're doing well

We just purchased a Mori Seiki SL3 lathe that's going to be
retrofitted with LCNC because it has no control.

The machine has a brushed DC spindle motor and from what they told me the
DC drive was not working (I would like to check this but I couldn't find
any info or manuals for this drive, the model number of the drive is
A20B-0008-0372/02). I would like to keep this motor because I like the idea
of having high torque at low speeds because I plan to use a milling and
hobbing attachment with this lathe.

I'm trying to find DC speed controllers of 15 kW or so, just to take a look
at what it's available but it seems difficult to find something that big.
Do you guys recommend any particular brand or source to find such a speed
controller?

Thanks as always.

Leonardo

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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc openlung ventilators

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

  What is the chance that a BIPAP (twopressure system) machine could be used as 
a “first line” for a ventilator?  
A CPAP (single pressure system) may also work.
It might even work with an O2concentrator.

Pressures could be raised andlowered if necessary.
I don’t think it could be used with patientintubation.  
There are millions of them outthere.
Dale




 

On Monday, March 23, 2020, 08:10:05 AM EDT, TJoseph Powderly 
 wrote:  
 
 How can Linuxcnc people help with OpenLung?
https://gitlab.com/open-source-ventilator/OpenLung

tomp


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[Emc-users] LinuxCNC 2.7.15 release

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

Hello all,I was going to try the new LinuxCNC 2.7.15 releace but I can not find 
the download.The page is there with a list of the new contributors and the many 
things that have been fixed.Just can't seem to find where to download.Also is 
2.7.15 setup to be put on a USB drive to install?Thank you to all for your 
great work.Dale
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Re: [Emc-users] WeTransfer? Anybody know anything about them?

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

 Gene,
Watch out for embedded trash in the download before you move it to a good 
computer. 
Or just print out the info from the USB booted computer.
Dale
On Saturday, January 26, 2019, 7:59:42 PM EST, Dale Ertley via Emc-users 
 wrote:  
 
  Gene,
Will this work for you?
Do you have an old used computer with only linux operating system on it? 
NO INFORMATION. wipe drive
Or boot from a new USB jump drive with only linux CNC operating system.
Link to that with a NEW EMAIL address from google/yahoo. Then delete it.
Dale

    On Saturday, January 26, 2019, 12:57:21 AM EST, Gene Heskett 
 wrote:  
 
 On Friday 25 January 2019 22:25:56 Chris Albertson wrote:

> It's just a download link.  Why would you need to install any
> software on your machine other than a web browser  It appears that
> they don't.
> I just sent you a file.  Don't worry it's OK.

And the actual email from them gives spamassassin a tummy ache, scoreing 
6.6 from a multitude of sins,
>
> Of course I could have attached it to this email but what if it was a
> 10GB file?  That is what this service is for, sending stuff you can't
> email.
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 5:31 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Greetings;
> >
> > The seller claims he has obtained the english docx file from the
> > maker, all; 5 that go with the machine. But he sent them to me by
> > way of WeTransfer, and WeTransfer is holding them hostage until I
> > let their site install whatever the heck they want to onto my
> > machine.
> >
> > I emailed him back and said that wasn't going to happen, find a way
> > to put them on a cd or something &  mail to my shipping address.  No
> > further word.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>



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Re: [Emc-users] WeTransfer? Anybody know anything about them?

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

 Gene,
Will this work for you?
Do you have an old used computer with only linux operating system on it? 
NO INFORMATION. wipe drive
Or boot from a new USB jump drive with only linux CNC operating system.
Link to that with a NEW EMAIL address from google/yahoo. Then delete it.
Dale

On Saturday, January 26, 2019, 12:57:21 AM EST, Gene Heskett 
 wrote:  
 
 On Friday 25 January 2019 22:25:56 Chris Albertson wrote:

> It's just a download link.  Why would you need to install any
> software on your machine other than a web browser  It appears that
> they don't.
> I just sent you a file.  Don't worry it's OK.

And the actual email from them gives spamassassin a tummy ache, scoreing 
6.6 from a multitude of sins,
>
> Of course I could have attached it to this email but what if it was a
> 10GB file?  That is what this service is for, sending stuff you can't
> email.
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 5:31 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Greetings;
> >
> > The seller claims he has obtained the english docx file from the
> > maker, all; 5 that go with the machine. But he sent them to me by
> > way of WeTransfer, and WeTransfer is holding them hostage until I
> > let their site install whatever the heck they want to onto my
> > machine.
> >
> > I emailed him back and said that wasn't going to happen, find a way
> > to put them on a cd or something &  mail to my shipping address.  No
> > further word.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>



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Re: [Emc-users] Going off-grid [Was: Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

 Kent, Ohio
BOSs are built in to mil spec plastic shipable cases.
Search yahoo for HDT Global BOS. 
orwww.hdtglobal.com/product/balance-of-systems-unit-bos

On Wednesday, April 18, 2018, 10:21:04 PM EDT, Kirk Wallace 
<kwall...@wallacecompany.com> wrote:  
 
 On 04/18/2018 04:36 PM, Dale Ertley via Emc-users wrote:
>  This might be a nice way to go off grid. I have 2 HDT Balance of System 
>(BOS) units with 5 solar panels. Engineer told me I could tie 2 together to 
>get 220 v ac out. Outback GTFX2524, FLEXmax 60, and alot more in them. I will 
>let them go for my cost. Got at gov auction. No batteries.
> Balance of Systems Unit (BOS)

... snip

Thoughts that come to mind:

Outback products are top drawer

This seems to be a 24 Volt battetry system, my cheapish solar charger 
has set battery parameters: flooded LA, Gel LA,  but also a user 
selection that can be set for whatever such as LiFePO4 or any other 
chemistry if the user knows what they want. I would assume the Outback 
has a similar feature but I haven't found it yet. I am collecting 
LiFePO4 Headway 38120 cells when good deals come along. AlarmHookUp 
seems to be a good source of batteries, but not totally risk free.
> https://www.topratedseller.com/ebay/alarmhookup

(I'm eying these for a TIG welder
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/183036786061)

Shipping would be a very significant cost. What general origin location 
would these BOSes ship from? I'm in Kalifornia, Usa.


-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] Going off-grid [Was: Thinking about going off-line eventually.

[Dale Ertley via Emc-users]

 This might be a nice way to go off grid. I have 2 HDT Balance of System (BOS) 
units with 5 solar panels. Engineer told me I could tie 2 together to get 220 v 
ac out. Outback GTFX2524, FLEXmax 60, and alot more in them. I will let them go 
for my cost. Got at gov auction. No batteries. 
Balance of Systems Unit (BOS)

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018, 10:35:17 PM EDT, Jon Elson 
 wrote:  
 
 On 04/17/2018 03:56 PM, Dave Cole wrote:
>
>
> If you Google absorption chiller you will see that Ammonia 
> is again being considered for solar -refrigeration 
> systems.  I really don't understand why, but there is a 
> lot of chatter on that topic.
>
Direct thermal refrigeration may make sense.  Sun heats a 
water loop, drives off the ammonia, and then it is 
reabsorbed to cool the cold side.  You could do the same 
with lithium bromide, although that is a salt that could end 
up clogging things.
> Ammonia can be a hazard, but its used all of the time by 
> farmers for fertilizer around me.  I've been exposed to 
> ammonia gas and it is not fun.
When confined to a building, it can cause MASSIVE 
explosions.  The fire marshalls just LOVE ammonia systems!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Lubrication

[Dale Ertley]

Hello
The actual service life of wind turbine gearboxes is often well below the 
desired 20 years. One of the prevalent failure modes in gearbox bearing 
raceways is white structure flaking (WSF) by the formation of butterflies and 
white etching cracks with associated microstructural change called white 
etching areas.
Dale 

On Monday, April 25, 2016 9:59 AM, Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
 

 On 4/25/2016 9:17 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> Do anyone have experience on lubrication of slide bearings, ball bearings and 
> such things?

My guess is that everyone on this list has some experience with that..  
Can you narrow the subject a bit?

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC for retrofit of Cincinnati Milacron CNC?

[Dale Ertley]

There is a much smaller CNC mill ( with 4th axis, I think) for sale on Public 
Surplus. As of today it is listed at $355. Akron, Ohio.
http://www.publicsurplus.com/sms/uakron,oh/auction/view?auc=1528956
 

On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 11:35 PM, Dave Cole  
wrote:
 

 On 1/26/2016 11:47 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 26 January 2016 at 07:00, Dave Cole  wrote:
>> If Siemens can't get standard AC squirrel cage motors to position
>> precisely, I doubt that anyone can.
> They can't with standard induction motors. But induction servo motors
> do exist and Siemens make them:
> https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf/ww/en/posts/asynchronous-servo-motor-v-s-asynchronous-motor/75942/?page=0=10

The term "servo motor" does not necessarily imply a positioning drive.

This is Siemens explanation since they make so many drives and motors 
for different uses:

https://mall.industry.siemens.com/mall/en/WW/Catalog/Products/10045149?tree=CatalogTree

Notice that the 1PH8 motors are Simotics M main motors and they say they 
are for precise and smooth running of rotary axes.

The Simotics S is the true positioning servo motors that are put on CNC 
machines for position drives.

Years ago (early 90's)  when I was working for Siemens, I visited a 
company in or near Cleveland, OH that was making high end spindle drives 
and motors.
I forget the company's name.  But the company contacted Siemens since 
they wanted to use Siemens drives with their motors.  I think I was one 
of the first guys to visit the company from
Siemens.    At the time, the existing Siemens drives could not control 
their motors.  Their motors were a hybrid motor that could be act as an 
induction motor at high speeds yet could do very accurate positioning at 
low speeds with decent torque.  It was a near perfect motor for a 
machine tool spindle.  About a year later Siemens bought the company 
and acquired their patents and  dissolved the company.    I met the 
company owner and I think he was happy to sell out to Siemens.  I'm 
sure that he did very well in the sale.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Anyone have a small piece of 15/64" drill rod?

[Dale Ertley]

Try McmasterCarr.com 

On Monday, December 21, 2015 5:58 AM, Sarah Armstrong 
 wrote:
 

 theirs one thing Andy , if you called , you'd never leave ! LOL
theirs always a cuppa on hand too

dont take any notice of the stock list , it's always wrong , theirs More !!
(arh !  yes the borer the reminants of having to work with Steam !! ) and
still do .




On 21 December 2015 at 10:47, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 21 December 2015 at 10:11, Sarah Armstrong
>  wrote:
> > m-machine-metals.co.uk
>
> After fossicking about in their web site, it turns out that they have
> a horizontal boring machine, just like the one my dad has.
>
> (Kearns S-type with the facing chuck)
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Slip ring - experiences

[Dale Ertley]

For the encoder why not wireless, RF, wifi or other, powered with a battery. I 
have not looked for the correct protocolbut it is just an encoder that needs to 
get data to the computer. Motor cables would be different.
Dale 


On Friday, July 18, 2014 12:55 PM, Stephen Dubovsky smdubov...@gmail.com 
wrote:
  


Rotary transformers may be a better idea than slip rings.  AC couple
everything.  Resolvers, being AC in nature, work very well through them.


On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 12:46 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 18 July 2014 17:39, jeremy youngs jcyoung...@gmail.com wrote:
  how about a blue tooth transmitter? our mazak probes were set up that way

 I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a BT transmitter/receiver that you
 can run a servo off of :-)

 However, this does make me wonder what the geometry is and whether
 some form of brushless servo arrangement is possible. This was how I
 got the drive into my CNC-converted boring head.

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Re: [Emc-users] Anyone coming to the CNC Workshop?

[Dale Grover]

I plan on being there at least some of the time, and I think Tom 
Easterday (brought his Emco F1 last year) may also be coming.

Thursday evening we're having an open house at Maker Works for CNC 
Workshop attendees.  It's an 11,000 sq ft membership-based shop that 
will have a full wood shop, metal shop, electronics lab, fabric, 
plastic, laser, etc.  Please stop by!  Still setting up machines, 
several weeks from opening, but you can get the idea. 
www.maker-works.com  We'll have details/maps at the workshop.

Hope to see some of you soon.

--Dale


At 9:23 AM -0400 6/10/11, Matt Shaver wrote:
Steve Stallings and I are coming, and I figure Jon Elson will probably
show up as he's a vendor. I think Jeff Epler said he couldn't make it
this year on account of prior engagements. How about the rest of you?

Hoping to see you soon,
Matt

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[Emc-users] PCB engraver, spindle solenoid

[Dale Grover]

I'm fixing up an IBC BoardMaker , a 22 x 22 PCB engraver.  So 
far I've replaced the Y axis with a McMaster-Carr 5/8 ball screw  
nut, which had been a proprietary-threaded rod with self-adjusting 
anti-backlash (plastic) nut that self-destructed, and replaced the 
stepper drivers with Gecko G251's.

The machine uses a solenoid to move the spindle down until a 
wear-button hits the PCB, thus establishing the cutter height. 
Spring return.

My question is about the solenoid drive.  There are two identical 
circuits--both are logic-level in (from a db-25 parallel port) 
driving a relay that supplies +45V to the solenoid (i.e., they are in 
parallel), though one has a 5W 40 ohm resistor in series.  (The 
solenoid is not identified, but has 70 ohm resistance.)

This sounds to me like a way of driving the solenoid hard to move the 
spindle down, then holding it with reduced current.  This is often 
done with a (big) cap across the current-limiting resistor.  The 
solenoid doesn't move all the way down with just the hold current.

I don't have the original control software, so don't know what the 
original software control signals look like.  (IBC seems long gone, 
but may have had connections in the past with LPKF.)

Does anyone have specific knowledge about what they intended as drive 
signals?  I was tempted to replace the two circuits with just one, 
with an adjustable one-shot to drive the solenoid full, then a gated 
PWM to provide the holding current.  (And replace those relays with a 
MOSFET.)  But then I wondered if drilling or milling required a 
different set of timing than straight engraving?  (In particular, I 
was imagining breaking a lot of 0.020 drill bits by driving full 
speed into the board.)  Any ideas?

Thanks.

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] PCB engraver, spindle solenoid

[Dale Grover]

Here's a picture of the front:  http://www.redcedar.com/misc/IBC_BM.jpg

The brass cylindrical object is the solenoid; it pushes down right 
where that green button is.  To the right is the spindle motor.  Just 
to the right of the cutter is the foot with a wear button on the 
bottom; this depth is adjusted via the knurled nut.  The cutter is 
secured in the collet with a set screw (1/8 dia cutters).

The spindle motor, foot, and cutter all move up and down on two 1/2 
or so steel rods with linear bearings.  In this photo, the top 
surface of the machine has been removed, so you can see the 5/8 ball 
screw below.

--dg

At 12:23 PM -0500 9/21/10, James Louis wrote:
Dale,

Do you have any pictures of the solenoid available?  I'm curious 
about how this can be used for a Z-axis.  It sounds interesting.

Jim

-Original Message-
From: Dale Grover [mailto:dgro...@redcedar.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 10:58 AM
To: EMC User List
Subject: [Emc-users] PCB engraver, spindle solenoid

I'm fixing up an IBC BoardMaker , a 22 x 22 PCB engraver.  So
far I've replaced the Y axis with a McMaster-Carr 5/8 ball screw 
nut, which had been a proprietary-threaded rod with self-adjusting
anti-backlash (plastic) nut that self-destructed, and replaced the
stepper drivers with Gecko G251's.

The machine uses a solenoid to move the spindle down until a
wear-button hits the PCB, thus establishing the cutter height.
Spring return.

My question is about the solenoid drive.  There are two identical
circuits--both are logic-level in (from a db-25 parallel port)
driving a relay that supplies +45V to the solenoid (i.e., they are in
parallel), though one has a 5W 40 ohm resistor in series.  (The
solenoid is not identified, but has 70 ohm resistance.)

This sounds to me like a way of driving the solenoid hard to move the
spindle down, then holding it with reduced current.  This is often
done with a (big) cap across the current-limiting resistor.  The
solenoid doesn't move all the way down with just the hold current.

I don't have the original control software, so don't know what the
original software control signals look like.  (IBC seems long gone,
but may have had connections in the past with LPKF.)

Does anyone have specific knowledge about what they intended as drive
signals?  I was tempted to replace the two circuits with just one,
with an adjustable one-shot to drive the solenoid full, then a gated
PWM to provide the holding current.  (And replace those relays with a
MOSFET.)  But then I wondered if drilling or milling required a
different set of timing than straight engraving?  (In particular, I
was imagining breaking a lot of 0.020 drill bits by driving full
speed into the board.)  Any ideas?

Thanks.

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] PCB engraver, spindle solenoid

[Dale Grover]

My inclination is to try to get this working without replacing the z 
axis.  I like the depth adjustment, since it eliminates a major 
headache with engraving PCBs, and the current (as it were) 
arrangement (two distinct drive levels) was functional at some point.

I've started looking into what options I would have to process G-code 
Z moves into various PWM or multiple signals--delving into the 
integrator's manual again.

Many thanks for the ideas and cautions.

--Dale


At 6:27 PM +0100 9/21/10, Andy Pugh wrote:
On 21 September 2010 16:58, Dale Grover dgro...@redcedar.com wrote:

  Does anyone have specific knowledge about what they intended as drive
  signals?  I was tempted to replace the two circuits with just one,
  with an adjustable one-shot to drive the solenoid full, then a gated
  PWM to provide the holding current.  (And replace those relays with a
  MOSFET.)  But then I wondered if drilling or milling required a
  different set of timing than straight engraving?

PWM sounds like a better way to go.
In theory you could then connect the PWM to the Z-position-cmd in HAL.
G0 Z1 would be full-power into the solenoid, G0 Z0.5 half-power, and
G1 Z0.5 F20 (or similar) would be a slowly ramping PWM suitable for
gently pushing a drill bit.
Setting Z-axis max velocity would determine how long a G0Z0 took to
complete, you could then follow each with a G0Z0.5 to apply the
holding current.

--
atp

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Re: [Emc-users] HELP?! Problems with a Reinstall of EMC 2.3 No OpenGL for Axis?

[Dale J. Chatham]

I ran Ubuntu's update procedure and most of my screen problems went 
away.  Actually, all I know/knew about have.  You're right the size 
wouldn't go over 800x600 until after the update.  Oh, an internal NVidia 
graphics device.

On 05/24/2010 09:34 AM, Neil Baylis wrote:
 There's also Matrox.

 On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 2:27 AM, Mark Wendtmark.we...@nrl.navy.mil  wrote:



 On 05/23/2010 06:18 PM, Dave wrote:
  
  From what I have gathered 10.4 suffers from similar video problems

 that
  
 9.10 did.  One issue is that 9.10 and apparently also 10.4 oftentimes
 can't access the video screen correctly to determine the screens
 capabilities.

 If you use the Vesa driver and you know your screen resolution, you can
 force the Vesa driver to set the video which apparently gets rid of some
 of the screen flickering issues etc.

 Another user, and then I found that the D510 intel board with the
 onboard intel GMA3150 video had an issue with 9.10 so I wrote up a work
 around for the D510 board.   If you are going to use the Vesa driver
 perhaps this would be some help.

 Go to this page...

 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Ubuntu91

 And scroll down to the bottom where it says:  *Note Relating to cannot
 load the i810 module error when first booting compiled Kernel:*

 The  xorg.conf.failsafe  file is setup to use the Vesa driver..  so
 this procedure just sets things up so the vesa driver is used and then
 describes how to set the config file so it is optimal for the monitor
 you have connected.

 This doesn't fix any Linux issue, it is really a work around.

 Dave

 Ah, figures.  I mentioned to Gene in the previous email that I didn't
 have any problems in 8.04 (didn't try the 9.10 version so I didn't
 notice the video problems there).  Other than ATI and NVidia, are there
 other decent video cards, or have they pretty much taken over the field?

 Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] Specs for a PC to run EMC

[Dale J. Chatham]

I caught an awful lot of flack from a guy who eventually got mad and 
left when I said this before, but I'll say it again anyway.

If you're new to Linux and you're using the install from the CD-ROM 
download, the latest/greatest motherboard may work against you.  The 
version of Ubuntu is several back and when it was created, the devices 
on some newer hardware did not exist.

You *may* get things to work better by updating the OS (through the 
Ubuntu utility), other folks here will know if that's a good idea or not.

NOT a knock against Linux, EMC, new motherboards, etc.  Just the way 
things sometimes work out.

and, for the record, I'm having the same problem installin Windows XP on 
a motherboard that didn't exist six months ago.

On 05/24/2010 09:31 AM, Neil Baylis wrote:
 I'm using a Dell Optiplex GX280 both with integrated graphics and with an
 add-on graphics card. There's a latency hit a certain time after it boots
 up, but after that it's fine. I bought a couple of these machines for $45
 each from a university.

 Neil

 On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Wes Johnsonwesley.a.john...@gmail.comwrote:


 I first tried a Medion with a Pentium 4HT 2.4 GHz, NVIDIA GeForce 8000
 series graphics.

 Next I tried an older Dell Optiplex GX270 P4 with integrated graphics.

 I disabled SMI on both. I get the same problem. There is an RTAI error
 shortly after starting EMC. On the Dell you can actually here the spindle
 RPM drop every 30 seconds or so when it has a problem.

 -Wes

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Re: [Emc-users] Test

[Dale J. Chatham]

Nope, didn't receive a thing.

:)

On 05/12/2010 05:57 PM, Shaffin Bhanji wrote:
 Hello out there, I am new to the EMC2 list - just testing to see whether
 my emails com through, please ignore.

 Shaffin.


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle servo motor using 7i33

[Dale J. Chatham]

Always a good idea when changing the subject to change the subject :)

I'm a bit curious about where this thread goes...

On 05/05/2010 09:34 PM, BRIAN GLACKIN wrote:
 Very much an outsider  on this subject, but i recall recently a link here or
 on another forum in which someone was using a lathe as the C axis with a
 milling head on the X axis instead of traditional lathe tooling.  The X axis
 was very fast and would follow a programmed profile coordinated with the C
 axis allowing lobe to nearly polygonal shapes.  THere was supposedly
 improved tooling life associated with the scheme as well.

 I could be all wet as well on this
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle servo motor using 7i33

[Dale J. Chatham]

didn't mean to chide, just a suggestion.  It's why there was the smiley :)

   Dale


On 05/06/2010 02:20 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
 Sorry for that, i'm not used to the mailing list.

 The subject was about using a servo to control the spindle and when required
 use it as a C axis, both things with the same motor.

 Regards.


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[Emc-users] EMC at NAMES this Saturday, Sunday

[Dale Grover]

If you're at NAMES this weekend, stop by the EMC table.  It's in the 
back, basically as far from the front door as you can get.  Look for 
Tux on a banner.  Marty Swartz again graciously copied CDs with the 
latest EMC LiveCD, so we'll have 200 CDs to hand out.  There will be 
a talk at noon Saturday and 10 AM Sunday on getting started with EMC.

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] Estop strategy for Hostmot2 (7i40 x 2 + 7i37)

[Dale J. Chatham]

Indeed, FWIW, it's called dynamic braking.

Yeat another UBI (Useless Bit of Information) :)

On 04/06/2010 07:39 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 05, 2010 at 06:08:15PM +0200, Jan de Kruyf wrote:

 Hallo,
 The accepted wisdom with commutator d.c. servo motors was always to
 have a contactor break the motor wires and short the motor armature
 through a resistor. The shorting of the armature works as a brake to
 stop the motors reasonably quick. The resistor in series is needed so
 the armature shorting current does not become greater than the
 demagnetizing current of the permanent magnets. 2 or 3 times maximum
 stall current should be ok.
  
 I hadn't thought of that, and like it a lot. It's simple, and doesn't muck
 with the power supply. It does though require a DPDT relay for each
 motor, or an 8PDT relay for all four. Fortunately, I have a tube of 25A
 DPDT relays in the junkbox.

 Choices. :-)

 Erik




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[Emc-users] Update on EMC at NAMES 2010

[Dale Grover]

A brief update.

* Seminars

Matt Shaver and I will be doing two seminars about EMC, one per day, 
at the NAMES Expo.  April 24-25. 
http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/expo.htm

Getting Started with EMC:  free and open source CNC control software.
Beginning with a brief overview of the components of a typical 
hobbyist/small business CNC machine, the seminar will focus on using 
the free and open source EMC software for CNC control.  Topics will 
include where to get EMC, computer requirements, EMC capabilities, 
using EMC standalone for learning G-code, configuration, and 
operation.

(This is obviously just going to be an overview!)

Saturday's is at noon in room A, and Sunday's is at 10 AM in room B. 
I think Matt is doing Saturday, and I'm doing Sunday.

* LiveCDs

Marty Swartz is again duplicating EMC LiveCD's; we'll have 200 to 
hand out for free (probably half at the seminars and half at the 
table).  We'll also have a handout about EMC like last year.

* The Booth

This year the NAMES folks decided we could be an exhibitor.  (Last 
year we were a vender.)  The good news is that this is free; the 
bad news is that, from what I now understand, we will have very 
limited space and be in an arbitrary location (first come, first 
serve).  I unfortunately did not realize this when the option was 
presented.  It sounds like no space for our EMC banner (sorry, 
Chips), and very little room for anything but a demo mill and example 
controller box and PC.  Going back to being a vender may be a good 
route for the future--this kind of presence doesn't seem to fit into 
a good category at NAMES.

In the end, though, I think we'll be able to talk to a bunch of folks 
and introduce them to EMC, which is the point.

I'm looking for volunteers to be at the table for brief shifts 
Saturday and Sunday--especially during the seminars, if possible. 
Please email me if you can do that.

Thanks.

--Dale


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Re: [Emc-users] Update on EMC at NAMES 2010

[Dale Grover]

Good to know.  Thanks.

--Dale


At 10:54 AM -0500 4/1/10, Steve Stallings wrote:
Dale,

There is a reason that you were offered exhibitor space
this year. The NAMES show is being held in HALF of the
Southgate Civic Center this year. Last time NAMES was
held there, they had the whole building and still ran out
of space. This year they are unable to accommodate all
the vendors who wanted space, so allowing you to be
an exhibitor instead makes room for one more vendor.

Be prepared for self service if you need power. The
exhibit floor has only a few outlets at the perimeter
and none overhead like Cabin Fever. The place was
basically designed as a sports arena. I would recommend
coming prepared with something to plug into the outlet
and create more outlets to share with others, a long
extension cord, duct tape, and if you have any, one
of those flat rubber bumpers designed to run a cord
across an open floor where people walk. Oh, and a
UPS for the computer might be wise.

Regards,
Steve Stallings



  -Original Message-
  From: Dale Grover [mailto:dgro...@redcedar.com]
  Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 8:25 AM
  To: EMC User List
  Subject: [Emc-users] Update on EMC at NAMES 2010
snip
  * The Booth

  This year the NAMES folks decided we could be an exhibitor. 
  (Last year we were a vender.)  The good news is that this
  is free; the bad news is that, from what I now understand, we
  will have very limited space and be in an arbitrary location
  (first come, first serve).  I unfortunately did not realize
  this when the option was presented.  It sounds like no space
  for our EMC banner (sorry, Chips), and very little room for
  anything but a demo mill and example controller box and PC. 
  Going back to being a vender may be a good route for the
  future--this kind of presence doesn't seem to fit into a good
  category at NAMES.

  In the end, though, I think we'll be able to talk to a bunch
  of folks and introduce them to EMC, which is the point.

  I'm looking for volunteers to be at the table for brief
  shifts Saturday and Sunday--especially during the seminars,
  if possible.
  Please email me if you can do that.

  Thanks.

  --Dale


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[Emc-users] CNC Workshop, EMC fest details

[Dale Grover]

Just talked with George Bulliss about the CNC Workshop* and I have 
some more details on the EMC Fest facilities.

It sounds like the CNC Workshop will be in a fairly empty building 
that has 4 classrooms and some large open areas.  (For some reason I 
think this may be a newer building.)  He has set aside one of the 
classrooms for the EMC Fest.  I understand it to be near the 
entrance, with additional space right outside the classroom if 
needed.  Pico Systems and PMDX will be right outside, and Smithy not 
far.

We will have access pretty much as late as we want.  A person will be 
deputized to make sure the door gets locked when the last person 
leaves; George will also give the campus security a list of EMC folks 
who will be cleared to be there late.

The building will have wireless internet (open), and the room will 
also have ethernet (we might need to bring a switch).  It sounds like 
the IT folks are being very reasonable to work with.  If we want/need 
something more (within reason), we can let George know.

They'll supply tables and chairs.  There are 7 heavy duty workbenches 
in the building, and one could be commandeered for EMC to use for a 
heavy desk top mill if desired.  It sounds like power will not be a 
problem (for 110V).  If we need 220V in the room, let me or George 
know.

Further note--one of the other classrooms in the building is 
outfitted with PCs, and it sounded like it would be possible to boot 
these off of CDs (e.g., EMC Live CD).  If this is useful for a class 
or something directly EMC-related, you can get in touch with George 
directly, or I can batch the requests for the next time we talk.


 From what I'm hearing, George is really willing to do what he can for 
the EMC Fest, and the college is being quite supportive.  It sounds 
like it will be a nice setup for the Fest.

--Dale


*CNC Workshop, June 22-25, 2010, Washtenaw Community College, Ann 
Arbor, Michigan.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forumdisplay.php?f=10

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Re: [Emc-users] Using a stepper motor as a spindle ( controlled via Mesa 7i43?)

[Dale Grover]

At 9:18 AM -0500 1/27/10, Rainer Schmidt wrote:
The temperature of the
  extruder will be controlled via a MSP430 micro and a PID loop, with EMC2
  setting/reading it via the serial port, this is just a port of the work from
  Jeff Epler (http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294).

I bought a temp controller of ebay and must say I am very very happy
as it works like a charm,
the PID is fully adjustable and even has a AI auto calibration mode.
And it's less than $50 and comes with everything out of the box.
Amazingly... it also eats any and every input voltage to run.
It's very small to.

Here's a little sample of it controlling my burnout oven:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD8gNmyflIU

I bet this can save you a lot of work.

_
Rainer M. Schmidt
Complex Consulting LLC
b...@complexllc.com
Voice (646)-657-8815
FAX (646)-435-9216

Bought one of these PID controllers for a plastic-injection molding 
machine (desktop), but now it's going into a kiln (controlling 
electric heating element with a solid-state relay).  They look like 
versatile devices!  (Am having to upgrade the thermocouple for the 
higher temp range.)

What would be even more useful would be some kind of interface so the 
temperature could be set by a PC (USB, for example).  As it is, it 
would have to be set manually.  There's also no output for the actual 
temperature to be read.  So depending on the need to change and/or 
monitor the temperature, this controller might not work as well as 
the microcontroller-based solution for the particular application.

Off topic, that looked like an M-head Bridgeport in the video.  I'm 
in the process of moving to an R8 spindle machine (a Pearson, an 
Italian-made machine from the 50's, in good shape), having tired of 
not having access to the cool R8 tooling options.

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] Commercial Info

[Dale Grover]

We provide links to commercial hardware, and it's helpful.  I think 
providing listings for consultants is a good idea.

EMC is free and open-source software, and there are freely-available 
online sources of documentation, information, and help at some 
page.  As an additional resource, consultants who provide service 
related to EMC may list their contact information along with a brief 
(1-line) description.  (More detailed information may be placed on a 
separate wiki page--text only, one or two paragraphs.)

--Dale


At 8:07 PM -0500 12/17/09, Kenneth Lerman wrote:
Li's posting brings to mind a question.

Should we provide an area on our Wiki for listings of a commercial
nature? In particular should we provide a place where EMC consultants
can post their contact information?

In the past, I believe we've seen people who would like to retrofit
machines to EMC, but lack the hardware and/or software support to do so.

I believe that we should allow:
1 -- A listing page where contact information is provided. This would
permit three or four lines per person.
2 -- User pages -- limited to text only that one could use for a brief
(we could limit the number of lines) pitch describing the services provided.

This would be supported by a single link on the front page of the Wiki.
Anyone who didn't want to look at sales pitches wouldn't have to look at it.

Ken

Yi-Shin Li wrote:
  Sorry to emc2-list-users, I should made previous mail off-list.
  I apologize again for sending irreverent messages to this list.

  Sincerely,
  Yishin Li

  
---Stuff Deleted---


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Re: [Emc-users] Portable EMC?

[Dale Grover]

If the BeagleBoard port works out, we could then look at other, 
cheaper, ARM9 boards.  The BeagleBoard has all kinds of stuff we 
don't need (e.g., video, including 2 or 3D acceleration), and leaves 
out ethernet, plus may be subsidized (and might have some 
availability issues).  If we can get to a more generic ARM9 board, I 
think we'll have a really excellent solution going forward for EMC, 
with even more of the benefits Jon lists below.  (There are even some 
fairly cheap--$100/qty 10--boards with ARM9 and a small FPGA, along 
with ethernet, memory card, etc.)  However, the BeagleBoard is 
popular, has lots of on-board resources, and so may be just the right 
environment in which to get the ARM9 project going.

I look forward to hearing more progress on this front.  It's not 
going to be the only solution for everyone, but for a lot of us, it 
will be very useful and very powerful, and will get us past the 
parallel port issue definitively.  (As a Mac user, I'm looking 
forward to running Axis on my main laptop for real, not just 
simulation.)

--Dale

At 8:27 PM -0600 12/9/09, Jon Elson wrote:
Stephen Wille Padnos wrote:

  Considering that a D945GCLF2 motherboard is $80, 2GB memory is $40, a
  hard drive is $50, and a DC-DC power supply is $50 (you could of course
  get a full ATX case with power supply for less), I'm not sure where the
  beagleboard really helps.  It's definitely smaller.  It's somewhat less
  expensive (though I'm not sure how far below $220 you're going to get,
  once you add a power supply, I/O conditioning, etc), it takes somewhat
  less power (3W vs. 26W).

  For the small differences in cost, size, and power, you end up with a
  full PC with gigabit network, 1.6GHz dual-core CPU, reasonable 3D
  graphics, excellent latency numbers (maybe 8000 or so IIRC), and a PCI slot.

  Of course there's always a bit of pride to be taken in doing more with
  less, I'm not sure there's really a great payoff here.
  
Does this have a parallel port that does EPP?  The Beagle is actually
quit cute.
You can run it quite well off an 8 GB SD card, no hard drive at all, and
a USB-Ethernet
dongle.  So, that is about $208.  I just found out how to use one of the
$9.95 Chinese
USB-net dongles, so that drops the price down to $175 plus some
shipping.  It runs
off a single 5 V supply, a wall-wart is fine at these power levels.  It
would also run
quite well from 12 V with a little regulator chip.  You'd need some
surge protection
from the spiky car electrical system, though.  I have a board that
converts the Beagle's
expansion port to 5 V levels and EPP parallel port pinout.  (That will
runs any
standard parallel port function as well.)

This whole new direction was started as insurance against loss of the
old parallel port
and possibly destruction of real time latency with newer incarnations of
the Intel
core 9000 hyper-megaplex CPUs in the pipeline.  It would also allow
people who
INSIST on using old laptops to get their way.  They could run the GUI on
the laptop,
and link to the beagle via Ethernet.  The Beagle would be inside the CNC
control
box.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Got my first signal out...

[Dale Ertley]

Ray,
We may want to put a short note in the docs to explain that the screen/monitor 
resolution may need to be changed to see the complete view of some of the 
pages. I have seen this problem 2 times with new users. Personally it set me 
back a few hours until I figured it out. The new users want to use the Step 
Wizard but can not see the bottom of the page (the control button). The Step 
Wizard seem to be the problem module. I have not come up with a good page(s) to 
place the note but I think it needs to go in there in larger bold text. Maybe 
show them the drop down menus of how to change the resolution. Lets reduce the 
frustration of the newbies. Martin is doing well with the stepper system. I can 
not wait to watch him do his full size servo Hurco mill. You my see him at EMC 
2010. You will see me there.
Thank you for your help
Dale Ertley




From: Ray Henry rehe...@copper.net
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Wed, December 2, 2009 7:28:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Got my first signal out...

On Tue, 2009-12-01 at 23:54 -0500, Martin Pinkston wrote:
 Good evening group,
s
 But now it's even funnier that I got signals out of the port.
 Ordering a breakout board tomorrow.

Realizing that there are signals waiting to be connected and used is a
key to getting into EMC2.  

Back about 95-96, when several of us were getting machines working, and
Fred Proctor was spending weeks in Matt's basement getting a first
public machine running, I thought I'd conquered the world when I first
saw signals on my scope.  I had to order stuff for those signals to run.

Congratulations.

Rayh





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Re: [Emc-users] newbie

[Dale Ertley]

Martin,
Check this site for parallel port info. 

http://www.beyondlogic.org/spp/parallel.htm

You may need to set the port address for the port. LPT1,  or LPTx which 
ever one (or more) you plan to use.

The BS #13 grinder is all wired and running.
Dale




From: Andy Pugh a...@andypugh.fsnet.co.uk
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 12:27:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] newbie

2009/11/30 Martin Pinkston martinpinks...@gmail.com:

 About the only thing I got out of the beginning of
 chapter 8 was that I need to find would what kind of printer port I have and
 what the Bios says about it.

This might well prove to be a non-issue eventually anyway. 16 IO Pins
doesn't go that far once you start thinking If only so you are quite
likely to end up buying an extra parallel port card or a Mesa card
anyway.

Having said that, a standard parallel port is fine for 3 axes + limit
switches with PWM spindle control, it is only if you want to separate
the limits and home switches, run remote pendants or have a spindle
encoders that the pin count starts to look tight.

-- 
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[Emc-users] EMC at NAMES 2010 update

[Dale Grover]

Just got an email from Karl Gross of NAMES (the North American Model 
Engineering Society), which runs the NAMES Expo.  In 2010 it will be 
return to Detroit after several years in Toledo.  We EMC users can 
have a free exhibitor booth there (maybe pay for electrical), and 
they'd like us to do a seminar on one or both days.  I think that's 
great news.

Here's what I proposed for the seminar (which I think are about 50 
minutes long):

Getting Started with EMC:  free and open source CNC control software.
Beginning with a brief overview of the components of a typical 
hobbyist/small business CNC machine, the seminar will focus on using 
the free and open source EMC software for CNC control.  Topics will 
include where to get EMC, computer requirements, EMC capabilities, 
using EMC standalone for learning G-code, configuration, and 
operation.


As for the booth, are there things we should do differently this 
year?  Ideas are welcome.  In 2009 we had photos of various EMC 
systems from around the world, a video running of 5 axis machining, a 
very nice EMC banner, a desktop CNC mill cutting air and wax, and 
another standalone EMC system.  Plus CDs of the then-current EMC 
Live-CD to hand out, and one-page EMC handouts to give out.

(I need to check in with Karl on the size of the exhibitor booth 
we'll have.  Not sure at the moment.)

Thanks.

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC at NAMES 2010 update

[Dale Grover]

I'll look into connectivity.  Last year someone loaned us a cell 
modem, the idea being we could use IRC, but ended up not using it at 
all.  A webcam or chat might be interesting.  I'll see what is on 
offer.

--dg

At 11:21 AM -0800 11/20/09, Kirk Wallace wrote:
On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 16:03 -0300, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
  I wish i could go some day to an EMC meeting, I'm far away from the
  US. But i hope everything goes well with that.
  Regards.
  Leonardo.

I probably won't be able to go either, but I would like to help with any
effort to create a more interactive remote presence feature (video
chat?). I suppose any Internet connection at the booth would be
speculative at this point?
--
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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[Emc-users] EMC at NAMES, 2010

[Dale Grover]

This spring a few folks put together a booth at the North American 
Model Engineering Expo in Toledo, Ohio.  We had a 10' x 10' booth 
with two 8' tables, an Emco F1 CNC machine running EMC (mostly 
cutting wax and/or air), and some great, large-format photos of 
various machines that run EMC.  (Not to mention a great banner!)  We 
had 200 CDs of EMC to hand out, and had a ton of interested folks 
stop by.  (See the wiki for more details: 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2AtNAMES )

NAMES is moving (back) to the Detroit area (Southgate--see 
http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/expo.htm) for 2010, and will run 
April 24-25.

Is anyone else interested in putting together a booth or other 
activity to promote EMC at NAMES in 2010?  Or have ideas?  This year 
we reserved a booth rather late in the game--we might have other 
options in 2010, including

--seminar(s)?
--more space for demos?  Multiple machines?
--classes?
--coordinating location-wise with other EMC-related folks who will be 
exhibiting (e.g., Jon Elson and Steve Stallings)
--handouts?  CDs?


Thanks,

--Dale

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[Emc-users] EStop and iocontrol.user-enable-out

[Dale Grover]

I have found a work-around, but wondering if anyone can point me to a 
better solution.

I'm building a second CNC machine (another EMCO F1 with steppers), 
using the same type of Sound Logic breakout board I used for my first 
machine.  However, I didn't use the charge-pump circuit on that first 
machine, and this time I did.

The symptoms are that EMC, using a stepconf-generated configuration, 
won't bring iocontrol.user-enable-out high if EMC is started when the 
controller is on and the controller estop is inactive.  I finally 
found this work-around 
(http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2009-04-22.txt 
at 20:15:13), which is to activate the estop on the controller, then 
click on estop in EMC, then release the controller estop.  This 
somehow resets EMC's internal state.  It works very reliably.

One thing I did was to run stepconf with two different 
configurations--one with an external (that is, controller) estop, and 
one without.  The one without an external estop runs fine--generates 
the charge pump signal and so on when the EMC estop is toggled, and 
so on.  The only differences are in the nameOfMill.hal file (all 
the other files look the same):

With estop:

net estop-ext = parport.0.pin-10-in-not
...
net estop-out = iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
net estop-ext = iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in


without (external) estop:

net estop-out = iocontrol.0.user-enable-out
net estop-out = iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in

So this puzzles me--why does the second one work?  user-enable-out is 
acting fine there, but not in the first case.

I put up two halmeters, one on user-enable-out and one on 
emc-enable-in, and could watch the two cases.  Using 
(iocontrol.0.emc-enable-in, iocontrol.0.user-enable-out) as a 
shorthand, this is what happens for the external estop case:

Start up EMC, controller is already on, controller estop is inactive: (1,0)
Activate estop on controller:  (0, 0)
Click on EMC estop:  (0, 1)  (note--user-enable-out is finally on, 
the charge pump is now active)
Take controller estop inactive:  (1, 1)  and the machine is usable.


I went back and checked--my older EMC (2.2.8) exhibits the same 
behavior, but it was never a problem because I don't use a charge 
pump.

I tried to find out more about what might be causing EMC to output 
iocontrol.user-enable-out low, but couldn't find anything in the docs.

So, one option is to live with the work-around.  Another is to not 
use the charge-pump.  But is there something else I can try?  Am I 
even looking at this the right way?

Thanks.

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC Workshop 2010, June 22-25, Ann Arbor, MI

[Dale Grover]

I'd be happy to help in whatever way, and that includes as a liaison 
to the event organizers if that would be useful.  Board folks--let me 
know if that works for you, but I don't want to step on any toes, 
either.  If I do this, I'll want some input about what we need at the 
Fest.

--Dale


At 11:47 AM -0500 9/20/09, Jon Elson wrote:
Dale Grover wrote:
  George is definitely aware of the EMC meeting and the level of access
  and resources that were available at Roland's for the group.

  It does not seem too soon to me for an EMC person to start working
  with George to get the best possible environment set up for the EMC
  Fest.

  I'm happy to help in whatever way I can.  (I live in Ann Arbor, about
  15-20 minutes from WCC.)
  
Umm, sounds like you just elected yourself!  But, honestly, your
location puts you
in a GREAT place to interface with the College people about space and
environment
details.  I would probably be bringing my minimill and usual pile of
junk.  I don't know
what project I'd be working on.  Maybe adding velocity estimation to the
PPMC driver
if I don't get there on my own first.  Or, maybe doing something with
the Beagle Board,
assuming that the RTAI development happens in time.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC Workshop 2010, June 22-25, Ann Arbor, MI

[Dale Grover]

At 11:19 PM -0500 9/19/09, Jon Elson wrote:
Dale Grover wrote:
  George Bulliss of Digital Machinist just announced (well, a few days
  ago) that the CNC Workshop will be at Washtenaw Community College
  near Ann Arbor, Michigan, June 22 through the 25th 2010.

  A few more details (but not much) at
  http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=667010.

  This is a nice community college 15 minutes from downtown Ann Arbor.
  Major airport (Detroit Metro) is about 35 minutes away.

  
Do we know what arrangements are going to be available for the EMC group?
Aside from a less than mainline internet connection (I get spoiled at
work, they got REAL
internet there!) Roland Freistad's place was REALLY nice.  Stuart
Stevenson's place
was quite cool, too, I got to do servo tuning on a machine nearly as big
as my HOUSE!
We also had enough space for many people to set up desk-sized project
areas and
work on them.

Jon

George is definitely aware of the EMC meeting and the level of access 
and resources that were available at Roland's for the group.

It does not seem too soon to me for an EMC person to start working 
with George to get the best possible environment set up for the EMC 
Fest.

I'm happy to help in whatever way I can.  (I live in Ann Arbor, about 
15-20 minutes from WCC.)

--Dale


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[Emc-users] CNC Workshop 2010, June 22-25, Ann Arbor, MI

[Dale Grover]

George Bulliss of Digital Machinist just announced (well, a few days 
ago) that the CNC Workshop will be at Washtenaw Community College 
near Ann Arbor, Michigan, June 22 through the 25th 2010.

A few more details (but not much) at 
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=667010.

This is a nice community college 15 minutes from downtown Ann Arbor. 
Major airport (Detroit Metro) is about 35 minutes away.

--Dale Grover

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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning--plot request

[Dale Grover]

Thanks!

--Dale


At 9:10 AM +0300 8/16/09, Anders Wallin wrote:
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Dale Groverdgro...@redcedar.com wrote:
  I'm writing up a little article on EMC and would like to include a
  graphic image of EMC being used to tune a servo.  Does anyone have a
  plot (before and after tuning) showing a step response for a servo?

I have some images on my website:
http://www.anderswallin.net/2008/04/pid-tunig/
http://www.anderswallin.net/2008/04/x-axis-test/

This is not a step response (where you demand infinite acc and vel
from the system!) but a response to a G0 move.

Anders

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[Emc-users] Servo tuning--plot request

[Dale Grover]

I'm writing up a little article on EMC and would like to include a 
graphic image of EMC being used to tune a servo.  Does anyone have a 
plot (before and after tuning) showing a step response for a servo?

Also, would be happy to get feedback on the article so far.  Email me 
if interested.

Thanks.

--Dale Grover

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Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning--plot request

[Dale Grover]

Jon and Robert,

Thanks--this link looks like just the thing.

--Dale

At 2:48 PM -0500 8/8/09, Jon Elson wrote:
Dale Grover wrote:
  I'm writing up a little article on EMC and would like to include a
  graphic image of EMC being used to tune a servo.  Does anyone have a
  plot (before and after tuning) showing a step response for a servo?
  
I have a very well-hidden article on tuning.  it is aimed at my PWM
servo system, but much of the info is applicable generally to any EMC2
servo configuration.
See http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PWM_Servo_Amplifiers

Jon


At 8:42 PM +0100 8/8/09, robert wrote:
What about this page?
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?PWM_Servo_Amplifiers

here is my mill i retro fitted from a Mitsubishi M0 control to EMC
http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,559/lang,en/

the next retrofit is two Hardinge Superslants twin turret lathes.
we are very pleased with our EMC fitted on our Leadwell has brought a
old 1985 machine upto a pretty high standard to todays machines
using its original hardware(servos etc) making is very affordable.

if you looking for feedback on people that have retro fitted big iron
let us know will happy to add my two cents worth.
rob


  Dale Grover wrote:
  
  I'm writing up a little article on EMC and would like to include a
  graphic image of EMC being used to tune a servo.  Does anyone have a
  plot (before and after tuning) showing a step response for a servo?

  Also, would be happy to get feedback on the article so far.  Email me
  if interested.

  

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[Emc-users] more on the NAMES show

[Dale Grover]

Adding to the other reports from NAMES...

We had a lot of folks come by the booth on Saturday--probably handed 
out 200+ flyers and 70+ CDs.  Sunday the attendance was perhaps 1/3 
of Saturday.  In the end we handed out a total of more than 100 CDs 
and 300-400 flyers.

The folks who actually stopped in the booth ranged from active EMC 
users to folks just interested in learning about CNC.  There were a 
fair number who mentioned the BDI CD, and a few that had not had 
great experiences installing EMC in the past (probably Linux 
installation issues).  Heard many folks talk about the machines they 
had in their basement, or the parts they had been collecting, but 
they just had not pushed through to finish it up.

My impression is that a lot of the people we handed CDs to will 
actually try it out.  Most were very appreciative.  We really didn't 
press CDs into people's hands.

The booth looked quite nice (in my opinion)--the photos on the boards 
are 24 x 36 and are really high quality with informative 
descriptions.  The banner was visible from across the hall.

We ran the video of the 5-axis milling machine from Belgium 
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjPCEpZybXsfeature=related), and 
folks who caught on what was happening really enjoyed it.  (Their 
machine was also on one of the photo boards.)

Some suggestions:

--Don't have tool changes in the demo G-code; interrupts talking with 
people when there's a tool change (or the machine stops).  Or, have a 
couple of demos (one that is cool, runs largely unattended, and 
another that has tool changes and the like when you have someone 
ready for more details)
--Find out what the attendance is like, don't assume a uniform 
distribution of visitors per hour
--Get envelopes for the CDs (I dropped that ball)
--Have a second machine to show exactly what Live CD will present to 
the new user so they can be walked through running a simulated 
machine (this was very useful)
--Set up a PMDX-112 Parallel port simulator to show more concretely 
how one configures EMC for parallel port operation
--Clear covers on the motor controller box were a hit--folks could 
see the various parts, but the plastic kept fingers out
--Have a cooler demo piece of G-code (like a 3-d Chips), ideally 
with 4 or 5 axes.

Chris Radek and John Kasunich came to the show on Sunday (and were a 
great help in tear-down--thanks!).Matt Shaver also drove up, and 
answered a lot of questions from visitors.

Steve Stallings lent us a PMDX-112, the idea being that it would be 
useful to show how one went about configuring EMC for parallel port 
operation.  It was hooked up and I showed the board to people, but 
didn't use it interactively--thinking about it now, it could have 
been more useful than my handwaving, though we really didn't a lot of 
questions about the interfacing issues.  The biggest questions 
surrounded how one generated G-code and how EMC fit into the tool 
chain.

Next year the show moves back to the Detroit area into a somewhat 
smaller venue.  If we want to do a booth next year, we could 
coordinate it so that PMDX, Pico Systems, and EMC were all together. 
With more time, we could explore options such as negotiating a more 
appropriate booth fee, setting up an EMC seminar, CNC demo area, and 
so on.

--Dale


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[Emc-users] NAMES, this weekend (4/18-19, 2009)

[Dale Grover]

This is a reminder that the North American Model Engineering Society 
Expo (NAMES) is this upcoming weekend (4/18-19, 2009) in Toledo, Ohio.

This is a fun show--many model engineers with some very impressive 
model engines and devices of all kinds.  Also new and used tooling, 
machine tools (manual and CNC), related books, and materials.  And 
free seminars (no CNC seminars this year?). 
http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/expo.htm

Some EMC supporters will have a booth (B-15, in the back) where we'll 
be handing out 200 Live-CDs with EMC2, demonstrating EMC2 on a mill, 
handing out flyers, and in general making folks aware of this 
excellent software. 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2AtNAMES

Jon Elson and Steve Stallings will have booths nearby.

If you're coming to the show, we're still looking for volunteers to 
be at the booth.  An hour, even half an hour would be helpful and 
probably even fun.  Send me an email.

But, it looks like we'll have a cellular internet connection there, 
so another way to help would be to monitor the EMC IRC channel during 
Saturday and Sunday (9-6 and 9-4)--if there are questions people have 
that folks in the booth can't answer, we may try to use IRC for quick 
answers.  (If you'd like to volunteer your phone number as a backup, 
you can email me personally.)

Many thanks to Marty (CDs), Greg (photos), Wayne (banner graphics), 
Rab (Chips graphic), and Bob (who will be driving my machines down).

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC at NAMES update

[Dale Grover]

Hi Marty,

Just a check in on the CDs.  Thanks so much for doing this.

Check out the banner that just got here: 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/banner_real.jpg

--Dale


Hi, Dale -

Just a brief update on the CDs. We are in the groove. All 200 have been
burned, and I am printing the second hud

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Dale Grover dgro...@redcedar.com wrote:

  (Some folks will be showing off and distributing EMC2 at a booth at
  the 2009 NAMES Expo, April 18-19, in Toledo, OH.  This is just an
  update.  There's more info on the wiki page below.)

  snip
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[Emc-users] EMC at NAMES 2009--banner update

[Dale Grover]

NAMES 2009 is a week and half away in Toledo, OH.  (A few folks will 
be demonstrating and distributing EMC2 at a booth at this hobby 
machining expo, as discussed on this list earlier.)  Here's an update:

* Just received a 2' x 8' banner with artwork by Wayne Parks: 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/banner_real.jpg

* CD production is done or nearly so.

* A flyer, to be printed on one double-sided sheet, is at: 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/flyer_v2.pdf

* We'll have some great photos (printed large) of machines running EMC.

* We'll have an EMCO F1 mill doing some 4-axis machining in air or wax.

While we don't *need* anything else, it would be nice to have:

* a few interesting objects made with EMC (which we can tie down),
* a few more volunteers to people the booth Saturday or Sunday (sign 
up with me or on the wiki page below)

More details at:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2AtNAMES

Many thanks to Greg, Wayne, Rab, Marty.

--Dale Grover

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC at NAMES update

[Dale Grover]

Good idea.  Will add that.  (And have a look myself...)

Thanks.

--Dale

At 10:13 PM +0100 4/7/09, Dave Caroline wrote:
perhaps the flyer could have a pointer to the case studies wiki page
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Case_Studies

Dave Caroline

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC banner for NAMES--volunteer?

[Dale Grover]

Thanks, Wayne!

Banner is off the printers.  Will try to post a jpg on the wiki page 
in a few days.

--Dale


At 5:43 PM -0400 3/29/09, Dale Grover wrote:
Short notice, but I'm looking for a volunteer to lay out a full-color
banner for the EMC booth at NAMES (for more details on the booth and
NAMES:  http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2AtNAMES).

Rab Gordon graciously sent a nice jpg of Chips, the EMC2 mascot,
which I can forward.  The text is along the lines of:  EMC, Free
and Powerful Machine Control, www.LinuxCNC.org.  So imagine Tux on
the left, and three lines (EMC in red?  Free and Powerful... in
italics?) in Helvetica bold.

The file specs for the banner company are at:
http://www.bannersinvinyl.com/filespec.html

(It turns out that a full-color banner is only a bit more expensive
than a cut vinyl banner.  So, we can go crazy with background images,
etc., if we want.  Say, 2' high by 8' wide.)

I'd like to send this off on Monday or Tuesday.  I do have a layout
in PDF I can send with a general idea, but I'm not a graphic artist.
Contact me off-list if you'd like to help.

Thanks.

--Dale

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[Emc-users] EMC at NAMES update

[Dale Grover]

(Some folks will be showing off and distributing EMC2 at a booth at 
the 2009 NAMES Expo, April 18-19, in Toledo, OH.  This is just an 
update.  There's more info on the wiki page below.)

The booth is confirmed (B-15), 200 CDs are being copied and printed 
(thanks Marty Swartz), the banner was ordered this morning (thanks 
Wayne Parks and Rab Gordon), photos are being gathered to print in 
large format (thanks Greg Michalski), and a rough draft of a handout 
is on the EMC wiki.

Banner (this is just a scaled-down jpg) can be found on the wiki: 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2AtNAMES

Rough draft of handout (your feedback welcomed): 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?NAMES2009Flyer

We could still use some example pieces created using EMC2 and some 
folks to be at the booth and/or help setup.  (email me off-list to 
arrange either.)

Looking forward to a fun weekend.

--Dale

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[Emc-users] EMC banner for NAMES--volunteer?

[Dale Grover]

Short notice, but I'm looking for a volunteer to lay out a full-color 
banner for the EMC booth at NAMES (for more details on the booth and 
NAMES:  http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2AtNAMES).

Rab Gordon graciously sent a nice jpg of Chips, the EMC2 mascot, 
which I can forward.  The text is along the lines of:  EMC, Free 
and Powerful Machine Control, www.LinuxCNC.org.  So imagine Tux on 
the left, and three lines (EMC in red?  Free and Powerful... in 
italics?) in Helvetica bold.

The file specs for the banner company are at: 
http://www.bannersinvinyl.com/filespec.html

(It turns out that a full-color banner is only a bit more expensive 
than a cut vinyl banner.  So, we can go crazy with background images, 
etc., if we want.  Say, 2' high by 8' wide.)

I'd like to send this off on Monday or Tuesday.  I do have a layout 
in PDF I can send with a general idea, but I'm not a graphic artist. 
Contact me off-list if you'd like to help.

Thanks.

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] NAMES Backdrop Photos

[Dale Grover]

At 8:41 PM -0700 3/16/09, Dave Engvall wrote:
snip
  Is anyone thinking about support for the backdrop pictures. IIRC
  the old Names venue was pretty much an open room. Unless you get
a booth with a wall you are going to need racks, dividers, etc to 
hang those beautiful pictures on.

Dave

While we're against a wall, I think we're required to have everything 
freestanding.  (I'll try to check.)  Besides, I think folks will want 
to look at the photos up close and read the captions, so we can't 
have them too far away.  We have the space--perhaps the booth is an 
open U shape?

--Dale

EMC at NAMES 2009 wiki page: 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2AtNAMES

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[Emc-users] EMC at NAMES 2009--a wiki page

[Dale Grover]

I started a page on the EMC wiki to collect the plans and ideas for 
promoting EMC2 at NAMES: 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC2AtNAMES

(Afterwards perhaps the information would be useful for future expos 
including Cabin Fever?)

Not to discourage continued ideas on the emc-users list, but to 
provide a collection point.

Space on the page to sign up for a shift at the booth.

And on the issue of having good information for people, I'm looking 
at how difficult an internet connection will be--then we could have 
the IRC channel open for questions that go beyond what a booth 
volunteer might know.  (If any EMC experts are at the show, perhaps 
they could leave their cell #'s at the booth if they'd be willing to 
answer questions as well.)

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC at NAMES, Apr 18-19

[Dale Grover]

Good point.  Will try to be prepared for that too.

Thanks!

--Dale

At 6:24 PM -0400 3/14/09, Wes S wrote:
On 12 Mar 2009 at 19:59, Marty Swartz wrote:

  Dale -

  There is one downside to having a stack of CDs ready to go, and that
  is the grab anything free mentality. I've never been to a NAMES
  show, but at other professional or hobby exhibitions, people will line
  up for anything of perceived value. (Screwdrivers, for example.) =WE=
  all know that there's intrinsic value on that CD, regardless of
  whether the label is fancy, simple, or merely scrawled with a Sharpie.
  :)



Given the ubiquity of flash drive devices, being prepared to upload
an ISO image to a users device might be a cheap option.  Sure would
appeal to tech savy type living on dialup.

Wes


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Re: [Emc-users] EMC at NAMES, Apr 18-19

[Dale Grover]

At 8:57 AM +0200 3/13/09, Alex Joni wrote:
   Greg Michalski wrote:
  I'm in the Toledo metro area and can donate a spindle (50?) of burnt
  .iso's
  - any suggestions on version (of Ubuntu) ?  I might (depends on if I can
  secure the labels  artwork before the boss goes out of town next week
  for
  business) be able to also run off a batch of stick-on labels if someone
  can
  point me to the fancy artwork that someone had done that I know I've
  seen.


  Go for the 8.04 Ubuntu, it doesn't have the very very latest EMC on it,
  but it is pretty current.

  Jon


Not quite the very very latest, but with an internet connection they should
be up to speed soon.
Here's a link to make sure you grab the right ISO:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/ubuntu-8.04-desktop-emc2-aj07-i386.iso

The 2.3.0 version of emc2 is still in beta state, and won't be out until
15th april (if no issues appear).
After that I will probably take a stab at building a new LiveCD with 2.3 on
it.

As for the artwork, not sure if this is what Greg has seen, but I did these
a while ago:
http://dsplabs.cs.upt.ro/~juve/emc/cd-cover/

Regards,
Alex

We have an EMC user with access to a bulk CD duplicator, so it sounds 
like we won't need an army of CD burners.  I'll make sure we have the 
latest version.

The artwork looks great.  Not sure if we can do color or not, but will check.

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC at NAMES, Apr 18-19

[Dale Grover]

Would please someone tell me, being 1 miles away, what NAMES is and
what it means, especially for EMC? Google gives me 9 million possibilites...

Thanks
Peter Blodow

The North American Model Engineering Society Expo is a big US 
exposition for model engineering, a combination of exhibitions of 
models and booths by venders.  You'll see Sherline, Village Press 
(publisher of Home Shop Machinist, Digital Machinist, etc.), and 
others aimed at hobby-level machinists, lots of used equipment 
dealers, and many exhibits of model steam engines, clocks, 
locomotives, etc.

  http://www.modelengineeringsoc.com/

There are also some talks scheduled during the day, and a theory of 
steam class that happens before the show.

It's a great show, and I rarely miss it.

There's a growing presence of CNC at the show--from components to 
complete systems, people demonstrating their converted or homemade 
systems, and talks on CNC.  Some aspect of EMC has been present for 
years at many booths, exhibits, and talks--the booth idea is to have 
it be the focus of attention.

--Dale

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[Emc-users] EMC at NAMES, Apr 18-19

[Dale Grover]

Booth 15 at NAMES will be ours for 
demonstrating/promoting/distributing EMC.  This is in the back, with 
Jon Elson and Steve Stallings in nearby booths to the sides.

For better or worse, the person I spoke to at NAMES felt vender 
status was appropriate (due to distribution of software, even if 
given out free); it sounds like something to work on changing for 
next year (Ron Ginger's connections would be valuable).  For this 
year, consider it my donation to one of the coolest examples of open 
source out there (as a recent post put it).

Please let me know if you would like to take a shift or two in the 
booth; create a handout, banner, or sign; demo a system with EMC; or 
have other thoughts about how to promote EMC.

Of course, many other exhibitors and venders will be running EMC 
systems elsewhere.  This is a chance to place the emphasis on EMC 
itself.

Right now there will be at least an Emco F1 mill, and hopefully at 
least one other PC running Axis for off-line demos.  Steve Stallings 
will loan one or two PMDX-112 boards for illustrating configuration. 
There will be room for more machines, and more knowledgeable people 
(in both senses).

It seems like distributing actual Live CDs would be a Good Thing--any 
idea how many we could give away?  Would burn-on-demand meet the 
demand?  Would any purpose be served making fancy CDs with printing? 
Seems like folks would be fine with a CD with no printing (just 
envelope printed or stamped).

NAMES is April 18-19, Toledo, OH.

--Dale



Would anyone have an objection to there being a table at NAMES to
demo/publicize EMC?  (Not necessarily an official EMC thing, but
just folks who are interested in sharing.)  There are at least two
vender tables left as of this morning.

--Dale
(Yes, I'm volunteering to help coordinate such a thing, if there are
no objections.)


Dale Grover wrote:
   Will there be any official EMC2 presence at NAMES this year,
such as a table?

 
Steve Stallings of PMDX said he'd be there, and I'm also planning on
going.  Tha's not very official, but may be as good as it is going to get.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC at NAMES, Apr 18-19

[Dale Grover]

Good point.  It sounds like the CDs should be behind the counter, 
handed out to folks who seem genuinely engaged.

--Dale


Dale -

There is one downside to having a stack of CDs ready to go, and that is
the grab anything free mentality. I've never been to a NAMES show, but at
other professional or hobby exhibitions, people will line up for anything of
perceived value. (Screwdrivers, for example.) =WE= all know that there's
intrinsic value on that CD, regardless of whether the label is fancy,
simple, or merely scrawled with a Sharpie. :)

If you want some help with duplicating, please contact me off list. I have a
scary-fast CD duplicator. Marty [dot] Swartz at gmail {dot} com  ..

On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Dale Grover dgro...@redcedar.com wrote:

  It seems like distributing actual Live CDs would be a Good Thing--any
  idea how many we could give away?  Would burn-on-demand meet the
  demand?  Would any purpose be served making fancy CDs with printing?
  Seems like folks would be fine with a CD with no printing (just
  envelope printed or stamped).

  NAMES is April 18-19, Toledo, OH.

  --Dale


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Re: [Emc-users] EMC at NAMES, Apr 18-19

[Dale Grover]

At 6:16 PM -0400 3/12/09, Ron Ginger wrote:
  
  Booth 15 at NAMES will be ours for
  demonstrating/promoting/distributing EMC.  This is in the back, with
  Jon Elson and Steve Stallings in nearby booths to the sides.

  For better or worse, the person I spoke to at NAMES felt vender
  status was appropriate (due to distribution of software, even if
  given out free); it sounds like something to work on changing for
  next year (Ron Ginger's connections would be valuable).  For this
  year, consider it my donation to one of the coolest examples of open
  source out there (as a recent post put it).

  Please let me know if you would like to take a shift or two in the
  booth; create a handout, banner, or sign; demo a system with EMC; or
  have other thoughts about how to promote EMC.

  Of course, many other exhibitors and venders will be running EMC
  systems elsewhere.  This is a chance to place the emphasis on EMC
  itself.

  Right now there will be at least an Emco F1 mill, and hopefully at
  least one other PC running Axis for off-line demos.  Steve Stallings
  will loan one or two PMDX-112 boards for illustrating configuration.
  There will be room for more machines, and more knowledgeable people
  (in both senses).

  It seems like distributing actual Live CDs would be a Good Thing--any
  idea how many we could give away?  Would burn-on-demand meet the
  demand?  Would any purpose be served making fancy CDs with printing?
  Seems like folks would be fine with a CD with no printing (just
  envelope printed or stamped).

  NAMES is April 18-19, Toledo, OH.

  --Dale




I am happy to see EMC will be represented, but it seems very unfair you
should pay as an exhibitor. I have exhibited my CNC stuff, and given a
seminar there for many years. I was asked by one of the committee guys
to do everything I could to encourage more CNC demos. I put notes here
and on other lists to do that.

It has always been clear that Vendors that sell products should pay for
tables, this is appropriate and necessary for NAMES to operate. But guys
that demo their hobby stuff are exhibitors. They do have to pay the $10
to get in as does everyone, but they are not vendors.

I have written to my contact and suggested this was not the way to build
CNC demo interest. I will see what the response is.

NAMES is run by a committee, and that has all the usual implications of
a committee. Im sure many recall a few years ago when the committee was
most uncooperative to our CNC demos. I have been assured that they all
now realize that was a big mistake and they really want to encourage
more CNC demos.

In the end, NAMES is a great show, I would never miss it. I enjoy
showing off my work and seeing what everyone else is doing. Ill be
there, with a new router Im building (if I get it done :-) and hope to
see lots of other CNC stuff. And we can debate the merits of our
favorite software all weekend!

ron ginger


I have really enjoyed the CNC talks and demos that Ron and others 
have given at NAMES.  They add tremendously to the show.  (I always 
take notes at Ron's talks.)  And anything NAMES can do to increase 
the CNC content would make me even happier.

Please bear in mind that when booking this booth, I didn't press the 
issue about vender/exhibitor--at this point it matters more to me 
that EMC has a nice space and location, both true of this booth, I 
believe.  I'm not offended, and could see the point of view that EMC 
does seem like a product, even if nothing is being sold.  And I do 
see the booth as more than a demo--I think it really does want to be 
venderish in appearance and purpose.  (One of many bad ideas I've 
had already--a sign with SHOW SPECIAL--70% OFF!! for the booth.)

But I do think that, if in the future there is sufficient interest to 
have another EMC-specific booth/table/area, it is worth going to the 
NAMES committee much earlier in the year and exploring other 
arrangements, because EMC is a special kind of product (plus 
community).  This kind of exhibit should (I hope!) add to the show, 
isn't making anyone any money, and builds the kind of community that 
NAMES benefits from.  Definitely worth giving space to, gratis. 
Let's see what we can actually make happen this year.

Looking forward to the show!

--Dale

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC at NAMES, Apr 18-19

[Dale Grover]

Thanks for the wonderful offer!

This is a good question for the EMC developers--will there be a new 
version of the Live CD before the show?

Greg--can I coordinate this with you off-list?

--Dale


At 9:07 PM -0400 3/12/09, Greg Michalski wrote:
I'm in the Toledo metro area and can donate a spindle (50?) of burnt .iso's
- any suggestions on version (of Ubuntu) ?  I might (depends on if I can
secure the labels  artwork before the boss goes out of town next week for
business) be able to also run off a batch of stick-on labels if someone can
point me to the fancy artwork that someone had done that I know I've seen.

Greg
www.distinctperspectives.com

  -Original Message-
  From: Dale Grover [mailto:dgro...@redcedar.com]
  Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:18 PM
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  Subject: [Emc-users] EMC at NAMES, Apr 18-19

  Booth 15 at NAMES will be ours for
  demonstrating/promoting/distributing EMC.  This is in the back, with
  Jon Elson and Steve Stallings in nearby booths to the sides.

  For better or worse, the person I spoke to at NAMES felt vender
  status was appropriate (due to distribution of software, even if
  given out free); it sounds like something to work on changing for
  next year (Ron Ginger's connections would be valuable).  For this
  year, consider it my donation to one of the coolest examples of open
  source out there (as a recent post put it).

  Please let me know if you would like to take a shift or two in the
  booth; create a handout, banner, or sign; demo a system with EMC; or
  have other thoughts about how to promote EMC.

  Of course, many other exhibitors and venders will be running EMC
  systems elsewhere.  This is a chance to place the emphasis on EMC
  itself.

  Right now there will be at least an Emco F1 mill, and hopefully at
  least one other PC running Axis for off-line demos.  Steve Stallings
  will loan one or two PMDX-112 boards for illustrating configuration.
  There will be room for more machines, and more knowledgeable people
  (in both senses).

  It seems like distributing actual Live CDs would be a Good Thing--any
  idea how many we could give away?  Would burn-on-demand meet the
  demand?  Would any purpose be served making fancy CDs with printing?
  Seems like folks would be fine with a CD with no printing (just
  envelope printed or stamped).

  NAMES is April 18-19, Toledo, OH.

  --Dale



  Would anyone have an objection to there being a table at NAMES to
  demo/publicize EMC?  (Not necessarily an official EMC thing, but
  just folks who are interested in sharing.)  There are at least two
  vender tables left as of this morning.
  
  --Dale
  (Yes, I'm volunteering to help coordinate such a thing, if there are
  no objections.)
  
  
  Dale Grover wrote:
 Will there be any official EMC2 presence at NAMES this year,
  such as a table?
  
  
  Steve Stallings of PMDX said he'd be there, and I'm also planning on
  going.  Tha's not very official, but may be as good as it is going to
get.
  
  Jon
  

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Re: [Emc-users] NAMES

[Dale Grover]

Would anyone have an objection to there being a table at NAMES to 
demo/publicize EMC?  (Not necessarily an official EMC thing, but 
just folks who are interested in sharing.)  There are at least two 
vender tables left as of this morning.

--Dale
(Yes, I'm volunteering to help coordinate such a thing, if there are 
no objections.)


Dale Grover wrote:
  Will there be any official EMC2 presence at NAMES this year, 
such as a table?

  
Steve Stallings of PMDX said he'd be there, and I'm also planning on
going.  Tha's not very official, but may be as good as it is going to get.

Jon

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[Emc-users] NAMES

[Dale Grover]

Will there be any official EMC2 presence at NAMES this year, such as a table?

If so, who is involved?

Thanks.

--Dale Grover

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[Emc-users] Roland Friestad

[Dale Ertley]

Hello All,
For those who did not get the email from Roland. For a good man, I wish him the 
best of luck and much better health in retirment. Joe enjoy your retirment and 
take care also.
Thank you Roland
Dale Ertley
 
CNC-WORKSHOP
NEWS
I’ve been asked by several folks about the 2009 CNC-Workshop. Unfortunately, 
there will be
no workshop this year.
I have had a serious medical problem starting early December and running 
through mid
January. Hit my head on a low beam about Dec 1 and felt pretty bad for a couple 
of weeks.
My right hand quit working and my doctor sent me to the local hospital for a CT 
scan. Ended
up with a helicopter ride to the critical care neurological unit in Peoria. 
Seems I had internal
bleeding inside my head putting pressure on the brain.
They drilled a hole for a drain tube but it didn’t fix the problem. A week 
later they cut a 50
cent sized hole and hosed things down inside. At least I think so, but I was 
asleep at the time.
They reassembled things with titanium screws (they tell me).
I have decided that it is time to close down Cardinal Engineering and retire. I 
am building a
large garage behind my house that will have room for a “hobby” machine shop. The
equipment will be sold and if any of you guys want to buy some of it, I’ll make 
you a really good
deal.
I believe the EMC contingent will have their meeting in Kansas. Contact Ray 
Henry for details.
An auction will be held for the remaining equipment not already sold, probably 
in early June
or July.
I’ve really enjoyed having the CNC-Workshop each year and would like to 
continue but my
doctors (and my wife) feel that it would be better at this time to eliminate 
the stress of holding
it in 2009.
If you have any interest in the equipment, CNC components, hardware, or 
attending the
auction, etc., get in touch with me by e-mail or phone.
Roland Friestad
E-Mail - i...@fullsizeplans.com
Phone - 309-342-7474 - (answering machine on 24 hours a day)


  
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Re: [Emc-users] Off topic-Electrical design help

[Dale Ertley]

Can't we run an AC servo in a + or - torque mode, based on a + or - control 
voltage applied to the servo drive? Clockwise rotation (torque force) for + and 
CCW for a - control voltage. The servo tries to maintain a commanded torque 
output. Forcing the motor shaft to rotate. I would think DC servo drives will 
do the same.
Dale

--- On Sat, 12/20/08, Javid Butler javidbut...@cox.net wrote:

From: Javid Butler javidbut...@cox.net
Subject: [Emc-users] Off topic-Electrical design help
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Saturday, December 20, 2008, 1:08 PM

Is there a reason such as cost or space that an off-the-shelf drive for the
motor cannot be used?

Some of the new drives have the capabilities that you are looking for built in.
I was just hearing the other day about a Siemens drive that is even line power
regenerative-when the motor is being used for braking the energy is not
dissipated in a resistor bank, but is put back into the power line. So the
braking energy is actually powering the lights in the building (for example-you
could thing of it as running the air conditioning too).

The energy efficiency is not quite the point here, just that a drive may be
available for that motor that already has the drive/braking capability you need.

Unless you are wanting to work it out for the fun of doing it, which is
something I completely understand!

Javid
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Re: [Emc-users] Success driving Panasonic Minas S (MUMS) brushless motors

[Dale Ertley]

Jon and Dave,
That seems to be a nice small motor/ drive combo. I have 4 of them.
I have one of the drive/motors running on a Motenc lite board. Other work 
pulled me away from it. I need to get back to it and tune the drive.
Dale 


--- On Mon, 12/1/08, Jon Elson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Jon Elson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Success driving Panasonic Minas S (MUMS) brushless 
motors
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Date: Monday, December 1, 2008, 12:23 AM

tomp wrote:
 i hope it works for the whole MINAS series
 i just went thru some hell because a supplied panasonic minas series A4 
 MHMD motor
 and mating MCDD driver couldnt be found in USA
 it was true, the MHMD motor is only for the asian A4C series
 and is called the MSMD in usa ( the 'A4' series )

 now isnt that intuitive? ;)

 anyway,
 you more than likely have the basis to use Yaskawa and SureServo ( 
 automation direct 'koyo ) also
   
The Panasonic encodes the 3 commutation signals with a UART, sending 
8-bit serial bytes at 1 Mbit/second.
So, that was quite easy to decipher and design a simple gizmo to convert 
back to the standard UVW commutation signals.
These motors have traditional ABZ position encoders.

On the proprietary Yaskawa motors made for their own drives, the encoder 
only has 3 channels, and encodes position AND commutation all in those.  
A and B are normal, but the C channel flips the phase relationship 
between it and the other two to give commutation and index pulse 
encoding.  I got the general idea, but I can't say I understand how it 
works.

Jon

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[Emc-users] Bad Weather, EMC FEST 2008

[Dale Ertley]

Hello all,
Is Galesburg still floating? No, that's not a joke. I have a real concern and 
hope all is well in Galesburg. 
With all the rain and bad weather you have had, will there still be an EMC Fest 
2008?
Thank you
Dale


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Re: [Emc-users] CNC Fest classes

[Dale Ertley]

Greg,
   
  !!! Great idea !!!
   
  Hope to see you at the Fest
  Dale
  

Greg Bentzinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Ray; (and other EMC subject presenters)

Any chance someone could video all your classes?

I can capture from Mini-DV tape and convert to Xvid and fit the whole thing on 
a DVD or maybe even a CD.

If the size isn't too big I could put up .iso files on one of my domains.
Also I could put selected clips up as .avi's

I will have to make it to the Fest some year, but it is easier to get a root 
canal than a week off where I work.

Greg.



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Re: [Emc-users] Hotel for EMC-Fest

[Dale Ertley]

Steve,
  I plan on spending a week at the fest. My first year.
   
  Which weekend is better to be at the fest? Or what days are best to be at the 
fest? 
   
  Thank you
  Dale

Steve Stallings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Hi All,

I was getting concerned about hotel reservations for the fest,
so I started checking. The economy does not seem to have
depressed the rates. 

Having at the Econo Inn and the Americas Best in past years,
I decided to go slightly upscale. These two do offer the best
rates and while they are nothing to brag about, they were
acceptable. That is except for one thing, I needed workable
internet access and neither passed the test when I stayed
there.

In checking around I was astonished to find that the Best
Western was sold out during the time period, Choice says
they only have one rather expensive room available, and
the Holiday Inn wants almost $100 a night.

My best result was with the Fairfield Inn (309-344-1911).
They negotiated a rate of $69.99 per night for a room
with two beds, two guests for a full weeks stay and provided 
a confirmed reservation number. When asked, they said they 
could offer the same rate to anyone coming to the CNC Workshop 
for the full week.

Regards,
Steve Stallings

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC Fest 2008

[Dale Ertley]

Mr. Stevenson or Mr. Engvall,
   
  Can you suggest a motel near to the action. 
   
  Has anyone put together a list of people who might like to room and/or drive  
togather and split the cost? 
   
  Thank you
  Dale 
   
   
  
Dave Engvall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Just hang out in the emc area; there is always something going on. :-)

Dave
On May 6, 2008, at 6:48 AM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

 Message: 2
 Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 19:27:21 -0700 (PDT)
 From: Dale Ertley 
 Subject: [Emc-users] EMC Fest 2008
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

 Hello,

 Will there be any good training for newbies at the EMC Fest 2008?

 I am new to EMC. I am also in the process of putting a 4+ axis 
 (xyzw+) full size mill on EMC2.

 Thank you
 Dale

 Dale,
 I attended last year. It was my first year. I attended one class.
 It was very helpful but the most help I found was getting to know the
 developers. I tried to just be an observer. I tried to not interfere
 with their projects. I watched and listened to get a feel for how they
 each thought and worked. All involved are down to earth, quality men.
 It is a pleasure to deal with them. They are very helpful and patient.
 I will attend this year with the same attitude. It is very much
 worth the time, effort and expense.
 thanks
 Stuart

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Re: [Emc-users] Decompiling PLC file

[Dale Ertley]

John,
  I will make the list in the next 2 or 3 weeks. By then I will finish reading 
HAL/Classic Ladder and then start the PLC program. If I have problems can I get 
some help from you? 
  Thank you for the assistance
  Dale

John Thornton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Dale, In most cases it is better just to write new ladder than to try and 
port from one 
system to another. I've been programming PLC's for longer than I can remember. 
I 
can assist if needed. 

Basicly you need three things:
1 List of inputs
2 List of outputs
3 List of what you want to happen when an input gets triggered.
Start with a pseudo list of what happens kinda like this:
When start is pressed (input 1) 
if is safety circuit is closed(input 2)
if stop is not pressed(input 3)
start motor (output 1)

Big John T


On 8 Mar 2008 at 22:44, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello All,
 
 Does anyone have the knowledge and/or software to decompile the PAL
 (Programmable Application Logic) files from an Allen Bradley 8400MP
 CNC control? 
 
 I have the 2 files from the Hi and Low EPROMs. They were saved as
 Hex, ASCI, and BIN files.
 
 The data from these files would be a good starting place for
 developing a Classic Ladder file now that I am upgrading my machine
 to EMC2. I have ordered a Motenc board.
 
 Thank you
 Dale Ertley



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[Emc-users] Decompiling PLC file

[Dale Ertley]

Hello All,
   
  Does anyone have the knowledge and/or software to decompile the PAL 
(Programmable Application Logic) files from an Allen Bradley 8400MP CNC 
control? 
   
  I have the 2 files from the Hi and Low EPROMs. They were saved as Hex, ASCI, 
and BIN files.
   
  The data from these files would be a good starting place for developing a 
Classic Ladder file now that I am upgrading my machine to EMC2.  I have ordered 
a Motenc board.
   
  Thank you
  Dale Ertley
   

   
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Re: [Emc-users] restart in the middle of a program

[Dale Ertley]

Hello All,
  Can we look at adding something to the scenario? How about a re-home due to 
lost axis motor steps on an open loop system? How can we restart in the middle 
after an ESTOP? I can't see any need for a reboot of the computer system unless 
we loose electric power.
  Thank you
  Dale

Jon Elson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Kenneth Lerman wrote:
 There's been a bunch of recent email on the list about restart in the 
 middle of a program. Has there been a feature request for (a decent way 
 to do) this?
 
I believe I entered a bug report about 6 months ago when I first 
ran into it.
 Does anyone want to put together a spec for it? In the presence of 
 o-words and looping, the problem is much more complicated than just 
 selecting a line of code
 
Well, if the first couple blocks have an M03 in them, and no M05 
is found later, then the spindle should be on when you get to 
the restart block.
 Questions: continue implies that we stopped. How did we stop? estop? 
 pause? other? After the stop, estop, pause, what can we do? Is MDI 
 active? Jogging? Homing?
 
I think Axis, at least, (maybe it's lower down in EMC) takes 
care of all of the above. If you are currently jogging, homing, 
or in MDI, you can't restart. On machines which lose position 
when E-stopped, the operator needs to re-home. Should be no 
need if just a pause or Esc key. This shouldn't matter to the
way you restart.
 Can we backup a few steps?
 
 
 
 A scenario: On a Bridgeport. A tool breaks during a complex part. Of 
 course that isn't noticed immediately. Finally, we notice and hit (some 
 sort of) stop. We would like to jog the head up, replace the tool, move 
 to some safe spot, touch the tool down. Then raise the head to a safe 
 height, back up the program a step at a time until before the break. The 
 bring the tool back to its current position. Finally restart execution 
 from that point.
I believe that EMC2 does ALL of these steps perfectly. The only 
thing you have to consider is that it is going to do one single 
interpolated (straight-line) move in 3-space from current 
machine position to the position it would have been in just 
before the restart line. This could possibly bring the tool 
into contact with clamps, vise jaws or part features that would 
not be hit when executing the program in its entirety. It 
should be up to the machinist to see that there will not be any 
problem caused by this. So, while EMC2's behavior here is not 
foolproof, it is optimal for the experienced machinist, and 
seems totally adequate to me, except for the spindle.

So, the program is scanned for all other modal effects like 
cutter radius and length compensation, work offsets, why not 
spindle on/off state?

On the typical retrofitted manual machine, the spindle is 
started on the first line and stopped by the M02 at the end of 
the program. Yes, it gets more complicated where the machine 
has a tool changer, but still all that really matters is the 
spindle direction and speed at the line where you restart.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Lathe

[Dale Ertley]

On Cerro Alloys.
  Here is a website 
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=384 
  McMaster Carr also has other Cerro Alloys.
   
  http://www.midwayusa.com/MediaSvr.dll/TechNoteStream?saleitemid=462291
   
  Material:
  
Proprietary Alloy (exact mixture unavailable)

Basic Instructions:
  
Plug the bore immediately ahead of the throat of the chamber using a small 
cleaning patch.
  
Pour the alloy directly into the chamber until full and allow it to cool, it 
will turn a shiny silver color. As soon as it has cooled enough that it is no 
longer a liquid (and doesn't present a burn hazard), remove it from the 
chamber. Take care not to overfill the chamber as the alloy will then run into 
the locking lug area, making removal extremely difficult.
  
During the first 30 minutes of cooling cerrosafe shrinks. At the end of one 
hour it should be exactly chamber size.

Notes
  
Melts between 158 and 190 degrees Fahrenheit
  
Should be melted in a clean iron ladle without direct flame on the product.
  
The chamber being cast should be cleaned thoroughly and a thin coat of oil or 
graphite applied.
  
Reusable

Contraction - expansion factor versus time, measured in inches per square inch:
  
2 minutes -.0004
  
6 minutes -.0007
  
30 minutes -.0009
  
1 hour +-.
  
2 hours +.0016
  
5 hours +.0018
  
7 hours +.0019
  
10 hours +.0019
  
24 hours +.0022
  
96 hours +.0025
  
200 hours +.0025
  
500 hours +.0025

  Dale

Dale Ertley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Have you tried to use a Cerro Alloy to reproduce a screw from a nut? It is 
a very low temp alloy ( about 200 F ) that has a near 0% shrinage after 
solidification. I stay away from the alloys that contain Cadmium.
  Dale

Gene Heskett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Friday 22 February 2008, Ian W. Wright wrote:
Thanks, In a way I'm glad that I won't have to dabble in the realms of
servos yet...

Gene, I do usually have to measure the hole as it is most often the
screw which is missing - or broken in the hole. I can usually get a
pretty close measurement by screwing a wooden cocktail stick or skewer
into the hole and measuring it as soon as it is unscrewed or by using
Plastimorph (Jett Sett) - neither is exact as the wood usually expands a
fraction when it comes free of the hole while the Plastimorph contracts
slightly as it cools but I have always got 'good enough' measurements so
far..

I'd expect the Plastimorph has a pretty well characterized shrinkage that 
could be well compensated for on a % per inch basis though. That however is 
a bulk shrinkage so don't forget to adjust the tpi as well as the diameter. 
The wood would be the more WAG in the 'SWAG' of the two methods by quite a 
bit but probably pretty accurate for tpi right out of the hole as its crush 
is all radial, not axial.

One of the better definitions of good I ever heard came from an ex 
brother-in-law, who was fond of saying that 'its good enough for the girls I 
go with.' :-)

I usually measure them with a travelling microscope over several 
threads.

Oohhhkayy. I had in mind some sort of a dial indicator with a v-tip ground on 
its probe, using the dial to see when you were sitting in the bottom of the 
groove, and an optical scale of some sort to read the intergroove spacing. 
The microscope is obviously an even better tool.

Oh, and you can add at least a hundred years onto the age of 
the screws - not 75 years but 150 - 250 years and some of the screws
probably haven't been moved in all that time until their heads have
corroded off... fortunately, most are blued steel screws in brass plates
and so they will 'disappear' in an Alum solution after a few days.

Presumably with no damage to the brass? And whats a few days if its 200+ 
years old now. :)

I'm not a chemistry major except in the photographic darkroom, where I have 
for many years concocted my own color print paper developer cuz the 
commercial stuff is so hot it fades by the minute and you can't mix up a pint 
because no two prints developed 20 minutes apart will be developed alike. 
With my method, I can make 8 identically exposed 8x10's give me 8 identical 
prints with that pint of mix and a few hours of rolling a uni-drum. But now 
that things are going digital its easier, but I cannot say the quality is the 
same as the optical is/was. Digital has a ways to go yet.

Sounds like an even better solution (pun intended) than using edm to remove 
the remains, edm is not fussy what it takes with it if the electrode aim is 
poor. I would certainly feel like I had violated some sort of a priceless 
artifact of a lost art if I actually damaged the big stuff.

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Re: [Emc-users] machine geometry compensation

[Dale]

I see this idea come up every now and then. If the Machine is not square 
  then you square up the machine. If the ways are worn then you refinish 
them, and If the lead screws ar worn you replace them. You're right it 
is impossible to build a perfect tilting rotary table, or anything else 
no matter how small the error may be. I have used tilting rotary tables 
to inspect parts and you'd need to look damn hard to find the 
inaccuracies in those tables. I know from working with machinery fo 34 
years that unless you have some instrument that can measure in micro 
inches you can't acheive micro inch precision. In order to compensate 
more all the machine and tooling inaccuracies you first have to be able 
to measure them. In manufacturing every dimension has a tolerance 
appropriate for each and every feature of the part to be machined. Not 
everything needs to be perfect. It's not difficult to align tooling of 
any kind on a machine including a tilting rotary table. Besides the 
ability to measure accurately there are thermal factors. Rigidity of the 
machine and tool holders is not constant. The longer you have to reach 
the more deflection you will encounter. The amount of deflection also 
changes as the cutting tool wears as well as with feeds and speeds. You 
are talking about a huge battle to get software to compensate for what 
is part of a machinsts job. If the machine is not up to the task I would 
consider it a loosing battle. Before taking on such a challenge I'd 
strongly suggest that the machine and tooling is up to specs in order to 
  even have a chance at a successfull implemantation. Like it's been 
said, You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I wish you the best of luck and do hope you keep us all informed as to 
your progress and successes/failures. To have EMC compensate for 
inaccuracies in the machine alignment would be a great asset. If I 
should ever find the room to contine building my second (larger) 
machine. It sure would be nice, there are limits as to just how accurate 
I can build and align a machine in my garage.

Dale


Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 Gentlemen,
 I want to start a dialog concerning how best to implement geometry
 compensation. At this point I am not thinking about roll, pitch and
 yaw. These may be included but my main concern is the manufacturing
 inaccuracies of multiple rotary motion components.
 It is impossible to build a perfect tilting rotary table. The
 intersection of the axes will not be perfect.
 I would like to have registers to hold compensation values
 representing the determined manufacturing inaccuracies. This would
 allow the control to compensate the linear motion positions to
 'perfect' the tilting rotary table.
 I have just requested three items. This is the fourth. If I am
 successful in the implementation the the three items I should be much
 more able to address this myself.
 
 Any and all suggestions and comments are welcome.
 
 thanks
 Stuart
 
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Re: [Emc-users] gerber files to g-code?

[Dale]

If Eagle can import the gerber file and convert it to an Eagle board the 
n the trace isolation gcode from an Eagle board program is already done. 
I'' look later tonight to see if Eagle will import the gerber files or 
if a User Language Program is needed and/or available. I've never needed 
to try it but I'm very familiar with Eagle for initial drawing and 
converting/milling boards.

Dale

Sven Mueller wrote:
 Jon Elson wrote on 09/09/2007 19:24:
 
Stephen Wille Padnos wrote:

Heh.  I remembered our discussion about G-code formats on a short car 
ride (maybe headed to Peoria?), and I figured you'd know what all of it 
meant.


Well, after having written my own Gerber to raster converter 
program, I know the format fairly well.  I haven't put RS274-X 
format features into my program yet, but it supports all the 
stuff I generally have in my PCB artwork.  Unfortunately this 
code is written in Turbo Pascal, and not too portable.  Sometime 
I might have to try running it through p2c to see how bad a mess 
it makes.
 
 
 Does any sort of publicly available documentation exist for the gerber
 file format?
 
 
It actually would not be hard at all to write a little program 
that would convert this Gerber format to standard G-code, and it 
would draw out the traces with the EMC preview programs. 
Converting from Gerber to a trace isolating cutter path would be 
a good deal harder.
 
 
 Not _too_ hard though, I think and certainly a task I would like to
 tackle. This would result in a commandline tool* (or QT based, I don't
 like GTK that much), which takes a text based configuration and a gerber
 file. Also I think that at least Eagle is able to output an inverted
 gerber file (i.e. printing not the traces but the non-trace/isolation
 areas), which would make this whole thing a lot easier.
 
 regards,
 Sven
 
 *: Probably a prototype in Perl with final implementation in C/C++
 
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Re: [Emc-users] gerber files to g-code?

[Dale]

have you tried Eagle PCB from cadsoftusa.com there is a free for 
non-comercial use. There may be a User Language Program or a built in 
Greber converter. If you can get it into eagle then milling a PCB is easy.

Gene Heskett wrote:
 On Sunday 09 September 2007, Jon Elson wrote:
 
Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings;

I friend has sent me an archive of .gbr files to see what I think of the
project.  Unforch, gerbview is only showing me a black, blank screen even
if I surround the filenames, which have winders spaces in them, with
either single or dbl-quotes.

The format of the files looks legit to me, so what sort of a viewer do I
need to be able to both see these, and convert them to g-code?

Here is the head from one of them.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ROM Pak Board]# head -n 30 ROMPAK_Bottom.gbr
%FSTAX23Y23*%
%ICAS*%
%MOIN*%
%ADD10C,00.010*%
%ADD11C,00.012*%
%ADD12C,00.070*%
%ADD13C,00.005*%
%ADD14C,00.062*%
%ADD15C,00.030*%
%ADD16C,00.007*%
%ADD17C,00.050*%
%ADD18R,00.010X00.010*%
%ADD19R,00.062X00.062*%



D10*
%LPD*%D10*
D10*
%LPD*%D10*
D10*
%LPD*%D10*
D10*
%LPD*%D10*
D10*
%LPD*%D10*
X00325Y04100D02*
X00319Y04069D01*X00308Y04038D01*X00288Y04012D01*
X00262Y03992D01*X00231Y03981D01*X00200Y03975D01*X00169Y03981D01*
X00138Y03992D01*X00112Y04012D01*X00092Y04038D01*X00081Y04069D01*

Any idea's folks?

This IS, in fact, G-code, although an old dialect of it, for
photoplotters from Gerber Scientific.  It is the industry
standard for photoplotters for PCB manufacturing.  Your file is
in RS274-X format, where the projection apertures are in the
beginning of the file, in comment form.

The lines such as %ADD10C,00.010 means that aperture D10 (just
like a tool select in normal G-code) will be circular and .010
diameter.

The rest of the file is in a valid dialect of G-code, with
Trailing zero suppression and suppressed decimal point.  All the
ancient controls used to run this way, like the Allen-Bradley
7320.  Anyway, that first line %FSTAX23Y23*% is the format
specifier, and it says that the coordinates are absolute (same
as G90 vs. G91) and that the X and Y coords are in a 2.3 format,
so X00325 means X=0.325  (Actually, I think leading-zero
suppression is more standard, with the FSLA format specifier.)

The repeated D10* / %LPD*%D10* looks like a program bug, but it
sets the Layer Polarity, ie dark lines on clear film or clear
lines on dark film.

Every time a block that contains an X or Y coordinate is
processed, that means a move, and the D0x tells whether to turn
the light on or off while moving, or only flash at the end.
D01 is move with light on
D02 is move with light off
D03 is flash at endpoint

All of this is similar to a canned cycle in regular G-code.

But, if you want to cut a PC board from this data, you need an
isolation program, that converts line width on the PC board to a
cut-around path for an engraving bit.  It may be the format on
this file is odd enough to foul up your gerb view program.

Jon

 
 Thanks Jon.  This was just recently generated on a Mac, a simple pcb board 
 for 
 mounting a 27xxx eprom chip and plugging it into a color computer.
 
 Is there a convertor in the geda suite (or any linux  free) that can convert 
 this to our dialect of g-code, RS-274D?
 


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Re: [Emc-users] voting

[Dale]

For what it's worth, I do

Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 Gentlemen,
 Who votes?
 thanks
 Stuart
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Interactive machining

[Dale]

Ray,

Fanuc used the O word to be the program name or filename and one could
be called and used by another. I could possibly find an example of the
advanced (advanced as per about 10~15 years ago) capabilities of the 
Fanuc I used to run if you wish. The versions of the controls on two of 
the machines were an 11m or something like that on a horizontal 
machining center and a Secos II (same as a Fanuc) on a vertical mill. 
both were Hitachi Seiki. Both worked very well.

Dale

Ray Henry wrote:
 Yea he has!  
 
 On Mon, 2007-08-20 at 09:36 -0400, Ron Ginger wrote:
 
Jon, Ray, some others may recall Ive been beating this 
drum for years, starting back at NAMES several years ago with my Win 3.1 
VB code to mimic the Acurite control.
 
 
 One of the things that often happens in these parts is that some folk
 are much more comfortable with software programming with it's loops and
 jumps and fancy maths and find g-code to be awkward. I don't have a
 problem with that and supported the O word as an extension to the
 interpreter even though there was no precedent/equivalent in the world
 of g-code. 
 
 Someone mentioned that conversational front ends tend to produce
 g-code programs to run.  This is not true of Mazatrol.  There are
 abilities in Mazatrol that are not available in g-code.  This leads me
 to think that Mazak uses two different interpreters.  I don't see this
 as at all bad.  We also have two interpreters.  
 
 What I do find disturbing is the attempt to bypass the interpreter
 entirely.  My thoughts here will be old hat to many readers.  I'm really
 bothered by some scripting language telling to machine to go to x3000m
 without testing that command to the limits of the device as recorded in
 a configuration file somewhere.  At the same time there is no regular
 error feedback to tell the operator to f*6k off.
 
 When we get around to writing this graphical interpreter and making it
 a part of the code we release, let's make certain it conforms to the
 same sort of error checking our existing interpreters use  -- or better
 yet just make it use canterp.  
 
 Ray
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Interactive machining

[Dale]

Ron,

IMHO I'd say that's the best appraoch. Whatever you choose to display or
whatever language you wish to program with can easily send the proper
commands to EMC. Then EMC can do what it does best, control the machine.

Dale

Ron Ginger wrote:
What I do find disturbing is the attempt to bypass the interpreter
entirely.  My thoughts here will be old hat to many readers.  I'm really
bothered by some scripting language telling to machine to go to x3000m
without testing that command to the limits of the device as recorded in
a configuration file somewhere.  At the same time there is no regular
error feedback to tell the operator to f*6k off.
 
 
 For my use I don't see bypassing the interpreter. I would be happy to 
 issue simple G code commands from the Script language. I don't mean to 
 keep pushing the Mach model, but all VB can do from Mach is issue g code 
 commands to the interpreter. With that dozens of 'wizard' screens have 
 been written to do a wide range of tasks, from simple facing, to text 
 engraving, pocketing, and hole arrays.
 
 I'm going off to read my new Python book, and follow some of the 
 references Jeff offered. Maybe someday I will have an example of what 
 I'm talking about.
 
 ron ginger
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Interactive machining

[Dale]

John,

John Prentice wrote:
 Greetings Steve et al
 
 Congrats. on election result (to you and others of course)
 
 
I'd say that flash, although it's more or less fine for media, has no
place in the requirements list for EMC2 :)  There are any number of fine
programming languages and environments to use for the UI.  I'm not sure
what you'd use to make a flash presentation on Linux anyway, and I
wouldn't want to be beholden to Adobe to make updated versions for my OS
(which they don't - I use a 64-bit version of Linux, and they don't seem
to like supporting 64-bit OSes on anything but PowerPC macs AFAICS).
 
 
 No, I accept the current problem in a Linux environment but things do change 
 surprisingly quickly sometimes. Flash player penetration is very high in the 
 parallel universe. Reliance on Adobe or any one vendor is unhappy but 
 Sothink and SWiSHMax both offer very capable development environments.
 
 

I don't even have Flash installed and see no need for it to control a 
machine.

On
a technical level, I'm not sure what facilities Flash has for actually
doing things that aren't media or web-related anyway.
 
 
 It is not the time/place to be dogmatic as I cannot show a demonstration, 
 but there *are* two aspects I think Flash offers (a) A framework for design 
 of very interactive graphic interfaces (e.g. the label for an Axis DRO that 
 opens up to show scaling, offsets applied etc. when it is clicked) 
 integrated with (b) A powerful and well structured script programming 
 language.
 
 The difficulty in applying Flash is that the documentation/tutorial material 
 is highly orientated to the web design aspects and the terminology is thus 
 foreign. The ability to instantiate graphics objects, which can be 
 movies, as buttons,  text, DROs, etc. with overideable inherited 
 properties is, however, a very powerful tool.
 
 On a more general point, we have come to accept heirarchical dialog systems 
 as the norm. So many application program dialogs are modal and we while 
 away our lives clicking OK/Done etc. When I started using Solidworks and 
 Pro/ENGINEER I was blown away by the benefits of the implied OK in 
 Solidworks. As an example, you place a dimension and a panel comes up for 
 entering its properties. This panel has an OK and a Cancel button but if you 
 just click on the sketch then OK is assumed and you can place another 
 dimension. This works wherever there is a reasonable assumption. Where the 
 implication is risky you need a positive confirmation of OK. Pro/E on the 
 other had pendantically wants confirmation at every step (and in Wildfire 2 
 at least different modules ask for it in different ways and on different 
 parts of the screen).
 

I would get very upset if I had to keep confirming what I just told the 
application what I wanted, I think once is enough. To place a dimension 
should be pick the feature and pick whhere to place the dimensiion for 
that feature. No confirmation is needed, if it doesn't get applied the 
way I wanted it there's always a way to undo it and try again.

 The available computing power seems to offer scope for increased safety and 
 ease of use in HMIs provided the development tools are available. 
 /mini-rant
 
 John Prentice
 
 

Saftey? I do not need or want any protection from myself, I command the 
computer and i expect it to do as I request without continually being 
asked if it is OK!

KISS,
Dale

 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Interactive machining

[Dale]

Ray,

Fanuc used the O word to be the program name or filename and one could
be called and used by another. I could possibly find an example of the
advanced capabilities of the Fanuc I used to run if you wish.

Dale

Ray Henry wrote:
 Yea he has!  
 
 On Mon, 2007-08-20 at 09:36 -0400, Ron Ginger wrote:
 
Jon, Ray, some others may recall Ive been beating this 
drum for years, starting back at NAMES several years ago with my Win 3.1 
VB code to mimic the Acurite control.
 
 
 One of the things that often happens in these parts is that some folk
 are much more comfortable with software programming with it's loops and
 jumps and fancy maths and find g-code to be awkward. I don't have a
 problem with that and supported the O word as an extension to the
 interpreter even though there was no precedent/equivalent in the world
 of g-code. 
 
 Someone mentioned that conversational front ends tend to produce
 g-code programs to run.  This is not true of Mazatrol.  There are
 abilities in Mazatrol that are not available in g-code.  This leads me
 to think that Mazak uses two different interpreters.  I don't see this
 as at all bad.  We also have two interpreters.  
 
 What I do find disturbing is the attempt to bypass the interpreter
 entirely.  My thoughts here will be old hat to many readers.  I'm really
 bothered by some scripting language telling to machine to go to x3000m
 without testing that command to the limits of the device as recorded in
 a configuration file somewhere.  At the same time there is no regular
 error feedback to tell the operator to f*6k off.
 
 When we get around to writing this graphical interpreter and making it
 a part of the code we release, let's make certain it conforms to the
 same sort of error checking our existing interpreters use  -- or better
 yet just make it use canterp.  
 
 Ray
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] interactive machining

[Dale]

I started programming NC machine using calculator paper and pencil, then 
typed it all out to tape on a flexowriter or simply used mdi ti input 
what I wanted the machine to do. There was no sense in punching a tape 
since it was a one time job. Punching tape was just one more step where 
an error could be introduced with a simple typo. I used CNC machines the 
same as you would use a manual machine. I view Gcode as electronic 
machine levers and handles where instead of running a manual machine by 
turning the handle I tell the machine where to position with a simple 
x-position y-position. The Gcode that every now and then somebody wants 
to replace with some other language is as simple as it gets. any 
language or scripting language is much more complicated than Gcode and I 
really don't care to learn another language!

It should be very simple to use your favorite language to issue NML or 
HAL commands or queries without messing with the Gcode interpreter. If 
that's how you wnat to control your machine fine, do it. Just don't 
think for a minute that I should agree and start learning some scripting 
language! I know Gcode forward and backward, inside an out, and have 
absolutely no desire or reason to change to anything else. So if you 
know or have a favorite scripting language I suggest that you learn how 
to send EMC the appropriate NML and/or HAL commands and leave Gcode alone!!!

BTW it's been a long time since I've used any punched tape but I was 
also able to read directly from the tape and interpret those hole 
patterns. There is no simpler way to command a machine tool.

Dale



Hugh Currin wrote:
 I've been casually following the scripting language thread. I don't fully 
 understand the purpose, and have little experience, but with my limited 
 knowledge I agree with Stuart.
 
 I would suggest EMC should strive to be the best machine controller possible. 
 Currently this means, to me, it interprets standard G-code and moves axes 
 according to these G-code commands. I start to become uncomfortable when the 
 direction is to accept other commands and/or make extensions to standard 
 G-code.
 
 I also think G-code is similar to assembly language. Ideally one should use a 
 solid modeler to develop the part. Transfer this to a CAM package, probably 
 using IGES. Develop the set-ups, tool paths, tooling, speeds/feeds, etc. in 
 the CAM package. Export G-code from the CAM package using a post processor 
 specific to the CNC machine and controller to be used. I also think that post 
 processor should be very solid so you don't have to work in G-code. (It's 
 nice to know G-code while standing at the machine, but to change code there 
 can easily cause problems).
 
 For example such niceties as cutting splines should be in the realm of the 
 CAM 
 package until there are standard G-code commands for splines. Converting 
 them to lines or circular arcs makes for very long G-code programs but who 
 cares, we now have access to giga-bytes of hard disk storage. EMC accepting 
 non-standard G-code commands for splines is not helpful, no CAM package could 
 generate these non-standard codes.
 
 Maybe a simple processor is in order. A program which converts a scripting 
 language into G-code?
 
 Or maybe I'm missing the point. If so I apologize for taking up bandwidth.
 
 Thanks.
 
 On Sunday August 19 2007 8:55 pm, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 
I don't understand the point needing/wanting to use a scripting
language instead of G code. The part I don't understand is the
'instead' of. Symbolic control, usually called G CODE, can coexist
with other symbolic machine control protocols. Other symbolic
expressions can be used.

..
I see the G code (or any other symbolic) language as assembly
programming. The machine control/machine tool is the processor. The
output is the part you hold in your hand. A post processor is a
compiler. Catia, NCL Mastercam... is Python, C, TCL
You can use any language you want to generate positions and
commands. You then will need to post process it into a machine
tool/control specific format.
 
 


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Re: [Emc-users] USB Wireless Network Steppers with encoders?

[Dale]

While I can't comment on the wireless network other than it should work. 
I do have some comments on steppers and encoders. Unless you have some 
real high rent stepper drives capable of running your steppers at 
rediculess micro step counts encoder feedback is poimtless. First thing 
a proper stepper setup should NOT lose steps! Second if you add all the 
variables, tolerances, assembly, and missalignments in the machine you 
still probably can't justify using encoder feedback. Unless your machine 
is extremely accurate and near perfectly aligned, you would need drives 
and motors capable of very high microstep counts. Then your steppers 
could be run with encoder feedback and would act more like servos than 
steppers. IMO it would be much more cost effective and practical to just 
switch to actual servo drives. Less burden on the computer (EMC) and 
easier to implement. Glass scales are also expensive at high 
resolutions. To use Glass scales for position feedback requires a very 
tight positioning system with zero or near zero backlash. I'm sure that 
encoder feedback is possible to setup, I just don't see the need or 
benefit of it. Last words, a properly setup stepper system should NOT 
LOSE STEPS! And minor amounts of backlash can probably be ignored. I 
have .002 ~ .003 backlash. It's not really backlash but more of a 
windup due to motor coupling and the extra load of spring loaded anti 
backlash nuts. It doesn't present a problem as the machine repeats 
within .001 or better so the windup issue get's ignored and I have no 
problems with it.

Just my 25 cents, (inflation)
Dale

RogerN wrote:
 Would my EMC2 system work with USB wireless networking?  I'm thinking of 
 this because I could connect the USB wireless adapter to a USB extension 
 and position it for better reception.  I'm just not sure if it would 
 work on my Ubuntu Linux EMC2 system.  Another option would be a PCI card 
 and an external antenna with cable.
 
 Also, after getting to play with hal configurations a bit, It seems like 
 it wouldn't be too difficult to get steppers working with encoder 
 feedback.  If you would set up a pid loop = frequency generator and 
 configure velocity feed forward to run the steppers at the commanded 
 velocity, then pid gains could be set to take care of position 
 deviations.  This would be useful in detection and correction of lost 
 steps for one.  It would also give you the ability to connect encoders 
 directly to lead screws or use linear encoders for actual position 
 feedback.  It seems like this would be a little more to set up than just 
 plain open loop steppers but shouldn't be much more difficult than 
 setting up a servo system.  I don't think I've ever heard of a stepper 
 based system that is capable of positioning from linear scales.  That 
 should take care of lost steps, lead screw errors, minor amounts of 
 backlash, etc.
 
 Just a thought...
 
 Roger Neal
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] G28 return to home

[Dale]

Hi Chris,

Chris Radek wrote:
 On Mon, Jul 30, 2007 at 11:12:06AM -0500, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 
Gentlemen,
I would like to request a change to the functionality of these
commands. I would like to have them act only on the programmed axis.
Here is an example of what we use on all our machines at the end of a
program. I would like to have the same for the EMC controls.
 
 
 Thanks to both Stuart and Steve for their careful explanations of how
 the rest of the world does G28/G30.  I've changed EMC to play along.
 This is the new EMC behavior (in CVS trunk only):
 
 0. Error if radius compensation is on
 

Yes, error if G41,G42 is on

 1. Traverse (rapid) to the programmed waypoint which is interpreted in
 the normal way (honoring G5x, G92, G43, G90/G91).  If no axis words
 are specified this step has no effect.
 

Yes, G28 all by itself is invalid and has no effect.

 2. Traverse one or more axes to the reference/home position specified
 in machine coordinates, in machine units, in parameters 5161..5169 or
 5181..5189 (for g28/g30 respectively).  If axis words are specified in
 the block, only those axes are moved.  If no axis words are specified
 in the block, ALL axes are moved.
 

No, if no axis words specified then G28 is invalid input and no axis 
should move.

 Please test and confirm that it works the way you expect.
 
 Chris
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] G28 behavour

[Dale]

Greg,

Greg Bentzinger wrote:
 Quote Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 17:41:19 -0400
 From: Steve Stallings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G28 return to home
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)
   emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 
From the CNC Programming Handbook by Peter Smid (ISBN 0-8311-3158-6)
 and basically describing Fanuc behavior
 
 G28 is NOT modal, the G28 must appear in each block where used
 
 G28 in a block by itself is not valid, one or more axis parameters
must be supplied. Only those axes specified will move.
 

Correct!

 Traverse rate will be rapid, like in a G00.
 
 The axis parameter must have a value specified (Fanuc behavior).
 
 The value will obey the absolute or incremental mode currently 
in effect!!!
 
 The value is used as an intermediate way point on the path to 
machine zero.
 
 If no intermediate way point is desired, the value should be such
as to cause no motion away from the starting point. For example
while in absolute mode the value should repeat the current 
position, or while in incremental mode the value should be zero.
You MUST know what mode you are in before using a G28 command.
 
 The purpose of the intermediate way point is to avoid clamps etc.
 
 End quote---
 
 I must add that a move:
 
 G90 G28 Z0.
 
 Will generate an alarm if Tool offset ( G43 ) is not cancelled with a
 G49.

The above line would cause the Z axis to first move to the z0 of 
coordinate system in effect and possibly crash a tool (pragrammers 
responsibility) into the workpiece with no tool length in effect.

 
 G91 G28 Z0. ( will ignor a tool offset )


The above line specifies an intermediate point that equals the current 
point since it is incremental and the intermediat point is 0 distance 
from the current point. This is proper behavior.

 
 I do not know if having a cutter comp ( G41 | G42 ) has any affect on a
 
 G90 G28 X0. Y0.

Cutter comp should be exited before using a G28 again the above lin 
being in absolute will cause the machine to move to program zore point 
and then to machine home. A possible crash! And again that's the 
programmer's responsibility.

 
 move. I have stuck with using G91 mode exclusively since it seemed less
 error (alarm) prone.
 
 Also G91 G28 is always based on the G53 native coordinate set.
 

It should be based on the coordinate system in effect at the time, G54, 
G55, etc. with an incremental G91 G28 (z.x,y) the coordinate system is 
irrelevant since the intermediate point is 0 distance from the current 
point.

 PGAB
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Fixture offsets ?

[Dale]

Dave,

  Once the machine is Homed g53 cooardinates never change. g54 0's can 
be set anywhere within the work envelope.

Dale

Dave Engvall wrote:
 Hi Jon,
 
 Do you mean to imply that your G53 and G54 coordinates are different.  
 I've always thought and used G53 as if it was a non-modal G54 and  
 therefore an easy way to use machine coordinates for a single move.  
 eg. G53G0Z0 ... for manual tool change.
 
 Dave
 On Jul 28, 2007, at 10:43 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
 
 


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Re: [Emc-users] Fixture offsets ?

[Dale]

Jon,

  I use g53 quite a bit mainly to move to a known position relative to 
the machine cooardinate system. I also use g53 when setting a drinn in 
the collet. I use MDI to g0 z0. set tool to the top of the part, tighten 
the collet then g53z0 since z0 is spindle full up then at the end of 
every program is a g53 x0 y0 z0 after retracting to a safe z position.

All g5n.n coordinate positions should be in referance to the machine 
coordinate position (g53) for that matter all is relative to the machine 
cooardinate system in order to use soft limits without referring to the 
g54 settings and then back to g53. If you want to precisely define g55 
relative to g54 then in MDI it's as simple as g0 g54 x 2.5625 y 3.5 then 
in Manual set g55 to the current position. I'd have to look up how to do 
it under program control or using any version of EMC2. I'm sure there's 
more than one way to do that.

Jon Elson wrote:
 Hello, all,
 
 I was machining something this evening using a program which I 
 had used some time ago under my 1999 version of EMC.  The 
 behavior of fixture offsets seems to have changed.
 
 Here's what I did :
 
 I am using the Axis interface, I set the part coordinate system 
 with the on-screen touch off button so the lower left corner 
 of the part was (0,0).  The program has code like this :
 
 G10 L2 P2 X9.5 Y1.5
 G55
 
 It then machines some features from a (0,0) coordinate 
 reference, which it expects to be at x=9.5 y=1.5 in the G54
 coordinate system.  When I tried to run this, I got move 
 exceeds soft limits errors on both axes.  I fiddled around in 
 MDI mode to try to figure out how the G10 L2 function works, and 
 it seems you need to know the offset between the G53 and G54 
 systems and use that in your calculation.  What I ended up doing 
 was to go to G54, move to X9.5 Y1.5 in MDI and then switch to 
 G55 and observe the coordinates on the display.  Let's say they 
 were X=5.3 Y=-1.7  To get the current location to read as (0,0) 
 I had to enter G10 L2 P2 X5.3 Y-1.7
 
 This seems to be totally awkward, as it requires the program to 
 know the difference between the machine coordinate system and 
 the relative (work) coordinate system before the blank workpiece 
 is even put on the machine.  Shouldn't all these fixture offsets 
 be relative to G54, rather than G53?
 
 I read all I could find in the .pdf user manual, and got more 
 confused.  It seems to generally confirm the above is what is 
 going on, but this seems very cumbersome.  Is there a simple way 
 to align, say G55, to a precise offset from G54?  I NEVER, EVER, 
 use the G53 system, and the only purpose I can imagine for it is 
 to know where the machine limits are.
 
 Getting out of EMC to edit the var file is not a good idea after 
 you've used an edgefinder to locate the part's edges, either.
 
 I am using a version of EMC2 that is a couple weeks old, early 
 July.  Nothing in the bugfix list indicates any changes in this 
 area, so I hope I'm not wasting anybody's time with this.
 
 Jon.
 
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Re: [Emc-users] G28 return to home

[Dale]

I was unaware that a g28 homed all axis. You are correct that a g28 
should only work on the specified axis. Your examples and description is 
how it should work.

Dale

Stuart Stevenson wrote:
 Gentlemen,
 I would like to request a change to the functionality of these
 commands. I would like to have them act only on the programmed axis.
 Here is an example of what we use on all our machines at the end of a
 program. I would like to have the same for the EMC controls.
 
 G91G28Z0.0
 
 This will home the z axis only. If I wanted to home all three axes the
 command would be:
 
 G91G28X0.0Y0.0Z0.0.
 
 If I wanted to program an intermediate point I could use:
 
 G91G28Z1.0.
 
 I will say, I have never used an intermediate point and the G28
 command. If I use an intermediate point it is with G00 or G01. Then I
 use G28.
 
 Having G28 home all axes is not the functionality I would like to see.
 Maybe there could be a switch so both types of movement would be
 possible. This would allow the integrator to choose for each install.
 
 thanks for your consideration
 Stuart
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Terminal Strips (a little OT)

[Dale]

www.alliedelec.com
www.mouser.com
and yuo already got a link to digikey. those are the best places to look 
that I know of.

Dale


Kirk Wallace wrote:
 I need to make wire terminations on .25 inch or less spacing for my
 encoders and limit switches. I have found datasheets on .25 inch barrier
 and NEMA strips, but I haven't found a supplier yet. Does anyone have a
 favorite high density terminal system and supplier? And while I am at it
 -- liquid tight, oil resistant cable boots or gland nuts? Thanks.
 
 Kirk Wallace
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] nine-axis changes (XYZ ABC UVW)

[Dale]

THANK YOU GUYS. That's the best news I've heard in years concerning EMC! 
Unfortunately my big machine has been on hold for too long but that's 
great news. I hope to get back to making machine parts this winter. It's 
good to know that Emc will be ready for my W axis. Good Work!

Thank you,
Dale

Chris Radek wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 I thought I should mention that I merged my nine-axis changes into
 the cvs trunk.  We now have fully coordinated motion in six linear
 axes (UVWXYZ) and three rotary (ABC).
 
 Also, thanks to some work Jeff did, you can have any set of these
 defined - whatever is appropriate for your machine.
 
 This ought to help with some simple things like knee vs quill on
 mills (XYZW or XYZAW), as well as maybe being useful for some more
 specialized setups like foam cutters (XYUV).
 
 Beware this meant expanding (actually filling in some holes) in the
 var file.  You may need to update yours from CVS if you're running
 the trunk with a customized config.  Ask if you need help, and if
 you've been waiting for this please report successes or failures!
 
 Chris
 
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Re: [Emc-users] estop writes to toolchange pin out? more testing

[Dale]

Sorry to be so late in responding to this. When a machine is put in an 
E-stop condition (E = Emergancy) it's because there was some kind of 
problem or isbeing used in a normal shutdown procedure. No matter, 
coming out of E-stop the machine should not move anything or try to 
complete any function at all!!! That behavior could be very dangerous!

Dale

Alfred Smart wrote:
   I have done more testing and found that when I put the machine in 
 estop it jumps to the next line of code to be executed.
 Then when I bring it out of estop and push the machine on button it 
 takes off to the next instruction and not finishing the previous line of 
 code,it could be a rapid move!
 If the next line of code happened to be a tool change than the machine 
 takes off without spindle rotation because of my relay logic is still 
 waiting for a toolchange but the axis still move.
 Abort fixes the trouble but its one more thing to remember to do to stay 
 out of trouble.
 It would be nice if abort was a must do or automatically done with 
 machine on.
 is this everyone's problem or is it something I'm doing
 She's a runaway!
  
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] estop writes to toolchange pin out? more testing

[Dale]

Oooops! forgot, the Machine On button also should not cause any machine 
motion. That is one function and only one function, to turn on the 
machine, NOT to cause any motion!

Alfred Smart wrote:
   I have done more testing and found that when I put the machine in 
 estop it jumps to the next line of code to be executed.
 Then when I bring it out of estop and push the machine on button it 
 takes off to the next instruction and not finishing the previous line of 
 code,it could be a rapid move!
 If the next line of code happened to be a tool change than the machine 
 takes off without spindle rotation because of my relay logic is still 
 waiting for a toolchange but the axis still move.
 Abort fixes the trouble but its one more thing to remember to do to stay 
 out of trouble.
 It would be nice if abort was a must do or automatically done with 
 machine on.
 is this everyone's problem or is it something I'm doing
 She's a runaway!
  
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] List archive link

[Dale]

John,
  Here's what' at the bottom of the mail I get from the list:
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Dale

John Kasunich wrote:
 Andre' Blanchard wrote:
 


The link to the archive as it is in the emails I get from the list, does 
not work for me.
List-Archive: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=emc-users
 
 
 Do you mean one of the links that are automatically added to the bottom
 of each list message?  Because I sure don't see that link in any 
 messages I get from the list.
 
 
Here is the link to the archive from the web page, 
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users it does work.

 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=emc-users
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 The above ^ is exactly what I see at the bottom of every list
 message.  The listinfo link leads to a page which has the correct 
 archives link.  The incorrect link doesn't appear anywhere that I can see.
 
 Are you using digest mode?  Maybe the digest's have different links?
 Please copy and paste a sample that shows the incorrect link IN CONTEXT.
 I'll look into the problem once I understand what you are saying.
 
 Regards,
 
 John Kasunich
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Pratt and Whitney Turn Mate

[Dale]

Hi Ray,

Ray Henry wrote:
Snip
 Okay.  Let's say now that you've got quadrature feedback of axis and
 spindle position.  Now you need a way to get those signals into the PC
 running EMC2.  Several board makers have devices that can do this.  EMC
 has HAL driver modules that can read these.  In alphabetical order, some
 of these include.  Mesa, Pico, Pluto, STG, Vigilant, Vital.  You'll find
 links to these companies at www.linuxcnc.org.
 
Big Snip

Pluto? I haven't heard of this one, Would you have a link? I don't see 
it listed on www.linuxcnc.org.


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Re: [Emc-users] Show us your pics of unobtanium!

[Dale]

I know that noise and the finish. On much bigger and more rigid machines 
and even using bigger tools It's the same problem. Since you have 
limitations with toolholders and the spindle itself, the deeper the 
pocket gets the longer the tool/toolholder gets. The cutters themselves 
flex enough by themselves, then you go adding more length and it just 
gets worse. If you're lucky you can find a sweet spot between feedrate 
and RPM.

Dale

Roland wrote:
 At 10:35 AM 28/03/2007 -0400, you wrote:
 
 
 
over half an hour per pass though.  MCS is selling a little air grinder 
rated at 70k rpms, I wonder how that might work mounted on the side of 
the head on my micromill for something like that?  Has anyone here 
attempted something along those lines?

 
 
 When I was working on the Emco mill, 1mm carbide bits had a short, costly 
 life, so we wanted to try using tungsten dental bits. This was for 
 metal-work, doing fine work on brass patterns for spin casting.
 
 We ran some straight line test cuts in steel with a mock up, and it seemed 
 ok, so we removed the milling head entirely and mounted a Pferd air-tool.
 Firstly, the air consumption had a fair size compressor running at 50%. Then 
 we found that the spindle on the air-tool is not rigid enough. It's fine when 
 you use it manually, since you 'press' as required, with visual and audible 
 feedback, as well as being able to tilt the tool for a better scallop, but 
 for automated running it was a disaster. Especially in cavities, and cutting 
 'downhill' it tended to bite and whip, making horrible squealing noises with 
 a crappy finish. Steel or brass yielded similar results. We abandoned that 
 idea, but i'd be interested to know if anyone had more success with a bigger 
 tool.
 
 Regards
 Roland Jollivet
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Pics and Examples

[Dale]

Hi Dean,

It's good to hear that there are still some that do that!

Dale

Dean Hedin wrote:
 Believe it or not, I hand roll most of my g-code.
 I have a written a lot of custom programs to deal with each task as I come 
 upon it.
 
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Mike :0) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:02 PM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Pics and Examples
 
 
 
Guys, those are all some great examples.
What software was used to generate the toolpaths?
Thank you all for the hard work.
Mike





Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html

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Re: [Emc-users] Minefields and...

[Dale]

I'm not a lawyer or law student and I may be considered by many to be 
totaly wrong but here it is anyway. Just because it's written on a piece 
of paper or kept in electronic format, or any form of document, even if 
signed and witnessed does not make it a legal and binding contract. 
Thats just my opinion be it right or wrong, which would have to be 
fought over by the lawyers. The same people who came up with the legal 
language (gobledegook) of the contract.

How many of you have a patent or have read any patents? BTW there's no 
reason to answer that. Patents have their own language and make me 
wonder Just how many times can you write the same vague meaningless 
dribble over and over, page after page?? In order to bust a patent only 
requires proof of prior art. I would imagine studying the work of 
DeVinci could render many patents invalid and unenforcable.

Just an opinion and there's no need to have a long drawnout discussion 
of the matter. consider it some thing to think about :)

No responce needed or expected!

Regards
Dale


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Re: [Emc-users] Another Potential User - I Wonder If He Subscribes?

[Dale]

Jon,

  Fear - anyone that claims they have no fear is either a liar or a fool.

  Uncertainty - it's a part of life get used to it, Life - what happens 
while we are making other plans.

  Doubt - some of that is a good thing as in don't believe everything 
you hear or read.

I have nothing to fear about EMC or EMC2. A small healthy dose of fear 
can keep one out of trouble. The future is full of uncertainty and one 
must accept it and get used to it order to live a happy and healthy 
existance. Doubt, well everyone has a right to their own opinion and 
just because someone tells me something, that doesn't make it a proven 
fact. If there is any doubt about EMC2, all one has to do is try it! I 
have never said anything bad about the current state of of EMC or EMC2 
and have no reason to. My little machine is still running a BDI 2.04 
updated with RPMs to version 2.18. It may contain bugs and excess 
baggage but on that machine my needs are very simple and it performs 
flawless. The machine is not what I would consider fast but there is no 
uncertainty, I can start a program and walk away with no doubt that it 
will do exactly what I programmed it to do!

  OK drop the bit and replase it with very. That was pertaining to 
much earlier software. Since then there has been a lot of changes. There 
must have been a reason for all the change and evolution.

  I certainly did not consider my statement to be an attack on anyone or 
anything! Definitly not intended that way!

Regards,
Dale - a happy :) EMC user who is not afraid to learn anything, new or 
old and absolutely no doubt of my abilities and limitations.

Jon Elson wrote:
 Dale wrote:
 
 
Hey Jon,

Don't forget to read the rest of what I wrote and not the tiny little 
snippet that Ray quoted.

 
 Curiously, Ray's response beat your original message to the server by 10 
 minutes,
 so I saw his snipped reply first.
 
 
I admit that POS may have been a bit harsh. 
 

 
 I really think so.  I worked with a version about 5 years earlier than 
 your first, and while
 there WERE a few quirks, there wasn't anything I'd call a serious bug.  
 (Now, I did skip
 some versions, and usually wait for things to get stable before adopting 
 it.  Hey, I'm
 not a sortware developer, I've got parts to make! 
 
 S 
 
 Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt -- something naysayers spread to disparage 
 something they
 don't want to succeed.
 
 Jon
 
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