Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 20 October 2014 17:24, Bruce Layne  wrote:
> One of today's tasks is to move a big HP laser printer off the
> unreliable parallel port on my desktop Linux PC because the HP printer
> driver keeps locking up the PC and forcing me to reboot, and onto the
> network for faster and more reliable printing.  The NetGear WiFi port
> mentioned earlier would be easier than pulling cat5 into my office.  I
> should see if that'll work.

Completely off-topic, but my solution has been to run CUPS on a
Raspberry Pi with a Wifi dongle.
That gives me an easily-discovered Wifi printer.

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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Bruce Layne]

The reviews on the Homeplug devices (and the NetGear WiFi version from 
the previous post) looked pretty good.  I'm using the MediaLink power 
line network devices which are apparently much smaller than the Linksys 
version.  I've had mixed results with the MediaLink networking.  It 
works well on my wife's Linux PC.  Not perfect, but well enough that 
it's seldom a problem.  However, the RF interference on the power line 
at the CNC machines has caused problems.  I have the LinuxCNC machines 
in the basement shop and I pull cat5 cable from each machine up to the 
ceiling and over to the ceiling mounted router.

One of today's tasks is to move a big HP laser printer off the 
unreliable parallel port on my desktop Linux PC because the HP printer 
driver keeps locking up the PC and forcing me to reboot, and onto the 
network for faster and more reliable printing.  The NetGear WiFi port 
mentioned earlier would be easier than pulling cat5 into my office.  I 
should see if that'll work.

Like Eric, for LinuxCNC machines, I think I've standardized on 
networking that avoids configuring the PC for WiFi because it's 
problematic and that work will need to be redone after every OS upgrade, 
or trying to use power line networking.  I think I'll just keep a router 
in the shop and run cable from each machine to the router to keep it 
simple and reliable.





On 10/20/2014 12:00 PM, Eric Keller wrote:
> I've had horrible luck with homeplug.  Not sure what's going on, but I had
> some netgear devices that never worked well and the Sharp devices I
> replaced that with just died after less than a year of service.  I'm going
> to give up and pull cable
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 11:28 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On 20 October 2014 16:21, Charles Buckley  wrote:
>>> I never use wireless drivers for LinuxCNC. I use wireless to ethernet
>>> adapters and just let the standard internal ethernet driver handle the
>>> networking.
>> This might be the most reliable way, indeed.
>> My garage network is via homeplug, so all the machines just use
>> standard wired ethernet. This has the not insignificant advantage that
>> I can us Wake On LAN to power up a garage PC to drop  G-code files
>> onto it / fiddle with config files, make sure it is ready to go when I
>> get there etc
>>
>>
>> http://www.ebuyer.com/344129-linksys-plsk400-200mbps-4-port-powerline-adapter-kit-plsk400-uk?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CPaWx87Fu8ECFSEOwwod6rAANw
>>
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
>> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month.
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>


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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Eric Keller]

I've had horrible luck with homeplug.  Not sure what's going on, but I had
some netgear devices that never worked well and the Sharp devices I
replaced that with just died after less than a year of service.  I'm going
to give up and pull cable

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 11:28 AM, andy pugh  wrote:

> On 20 October 2014 16:21, Charles Buckley  wrote:
> > I never use wireless drivers for LinuxCNC. I use wireless to ethernet
> > adapters and just let the standard internal ethernet driver handle the
> > networking.
>
> This might be the most reliable way, indeed.
> My garage network is via homeplug, so all the machines just use
> standard wired ethernet. This has the not insignificant advantage that
> I can us Wake On LAN to power up a garage PC to drop  G-code files
> onto it / fiddle with config files, make sure it is ready to go when I
> get there etc
>
>
> http://www.ebuyer.com/344129-linksys-plsk400-200mbps-4-port-powerline-adapter-kit-plsk400-uk?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CPaWx87Fu8ECFSEOwwod6rAANw
>
>
> --
> atp
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 20 October 2014 16:21, Charles Buckley  wrote:
> I never use wireless drivers for LinuxCNC. I use wireless to ethernet
> adapters and just let the standard internal ethernet driver handle the
> networking.

This might be the most reliable way, indeed.
My garage network is via homeplug, so all the machines just use
standard wired ethernet. This has the not insignificant advantage that
I can us Wake On LAN to power up a garage PC to drop  G-code files
onto it / fiddle with config files, make sure it is ready to go when I
get there etc

http://www.ebuyer.com/344129-linksys-plsk400-200mbps-4-port-powerline-adapter-kit-plsk400-uk?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products&gclid=CPaWx87Fu8ECFSEOwwod6rAANw


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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Charles Buckley]

I never use wireless drivers for LinuxCNC. I use wireless to ethernet
adapters and just let the standard internal ethernet driver handle the
networking.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007CO5DZ4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 5:26 AM, Marshland Engineering <
marshl...@marshland.co.nz> wrote:

> Thanks for the info. What you have listed I have done many times before.
>
> Here are some of the other issues
> Wireless drivers, you have to know a bit about Linux to find and install
> them.
> LinuxCNC put files all over the place. I've yet to find any logic in the
> way
> it works.
> Creating disk partitions is somewhat confusing.
> Funny enough, connection to a windows network is easy. However, one time I
> had a Linux Guru work on my dual boot for 3 hours trying to get Linux to
> see
> the windows drives.
> So I have to mount them first  Windows users have no idea about
> mounting, or samba etc etc
>
> But most of all I could not get the PID control, my servo drives and motors
> to respond correctly.
> On the setup, some things are not explained in sufficient detail to make a
> valid choice and others don't work.
>
> Linux CNC is like learing another language and it takes time. The G-Code is
> the easy part.
> Needless to say I will be trying again as I think it is better than Mach3
> and I want to add some ladder logic for tool changers etc. My description
> of
> a Mach 3 interface is, it was created by someone high on LSD.  I tried to
> create my own screens with their utility, but, it too had issues.
>
> This time around I document my issues and hopefully they can be added to
> the
> current install instructions.
>
> Cheers Wallace
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 20 October 2014 03:08:56 Marius Liebenberg did opine
And Gene did reply:
> Hi Wallace
> If I can give some advice on getting things going.
> I have done many installations of linuxcnc and always follow this
> route.
> 
> 1: Download the linuxcnc LIVE-CD image and burn it to a disc. (keep the
> disc) This might help
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/common/Getting_EMC.html#_getting_
> linuxcnc 2: Set your mother board BIOS to boot from CD
> 3: Boot the machine and follow the prompts. Dont do anything fancy but
> go as standard as possible. Keep the machine connected to the internet.
> You will be prompted at some stage by the update manager to get the
> latest of all software. Do so but dont upgrade to 12.04.
> 4: Once the machine is running, follow the steps on this page.
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC
> You will be installing on Ubuntu 10.04 so just follow those
> instructions.
> 
> As I said, I have done many machines and always do just as I explained
> above.
> Good luck with your installation and remember that the community is
> here to help. Just ask :)

I would have added that during the boot from the cd/dvd stage, it offers 
to install right there.  But do NOT install from that bootup prompt, wait 
until its fully booted from the cd/dvd media, and you have the networking 
configured and are "on line".

Then and only then click on the install icon and follow the prompts. Why?  
Since you have already made networking work, all those settings will be 
preserved when you do the real install.  If you install from the first 
prompt before booting, then you will be forced to learn, and use sudo to 
run a funkity editor on a lot on strange sounding file names, before you 
will succeed in making networking work.

That is a headache the new user doesn't need, very off putting to start 
out, leaving a bitter taste in ones mouth...

> On 2014-10-19 21:42, Marshland Engineering wrote:
> > I'm about to start my 3 or 4 attempt to get LinuxCNC running. So far
> > over the past 5 years I have spent several 100 hours trying to get
> > things to work with little success.
> > 
> > Bear in mind that it's not just LinuxCNC, it is all of Linux you have
> > to learn etc, Git Gedit repository Sudo etc.

And replace gedit with geany as soon as you can, gedit has upchucked all 
over my lunch several times. Gedit is nice, but a bit buggy.  I've had to 
fix scrambled eggs files several times.  Not so far with geany.

> > I must say that with steppers (which we have had running) is quite
> > simple. Now using Mesa bits and servo drives was a complete
> > headache. I suppose 2 kw motors are a different beast.

I just put a 1 horse treadmill motor in my 7x12.  It takes a 2.5 kva 
supply to run it right.  Fortunately I had access to a used up twin 750 
watt Phase Linear amplifier, whose power tranny, rectifier bridge and 
filters supplied the needed grunt. A first pass with about a 1.2kva supply 
didn't cut it when trying to do rigid tapping with G33.1.

> > I have put time aside in Nov and Dec this year to try and get it
> > going again. Wish me luck.
> > 
> > Thanking you
> > Wallace Weideman
> > Marshland Engineering
> > 704 Marshland Road
> > Styx
> > Christchurch
> > 03 3237449
> > www.marshland.co.nz
> > 
> > 
> > -
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 20 October 2014 12:26, Marshland Engineering
 wrote:
> But most of all I could not get the PID control, my servo drives and motors
> to respond correctly.
> On the setup, some things are not explained in sufficient detail to make a
> valid choice and others don't work.

This is probably true of _any_ closed-loop servo system. Setting up
the PID is not a specifically LinuxCNC problem, and there are many
guides out there on servo tuning that are not linked to LinuxCNC.

JT has some tutorials on servo tuning:
http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html


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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Marius Liebenberg]

also have a look at this document

http://www.tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/sect_03_01.html


On 2014-10-20 13:26, Marshland Engineering wrote:
> Thanks for the info. What you have listed I have done many times before.
>
> Here are some of the other issues
> Wireless drivers, you have to know a bit about Linux to find and install
> them.
> LinuxCNC put files all over the place. I've yet to find any logic in the way
> it works.
> Creating disk partitions is somewhat confusing.
> Funny enough, connection to a windows network is easy. However, one time I
> had a Linux Guru work on my dual boot for 3 hours trying to get Linux to see
> the windows drives.
> So I have to mount them first  Windows users have no idea about
> mounting, or samba etc etc
>
> But most of all I could not get the PID control, my servo drives and motors
> to respond correctly.
> On the setup, some things are not explained in sufficient detail to make a
> valid choice and others don't work.
>
> Linux CNC is like learing another language and it takes time. The G-Code is
> the easy part.
> Needless to say I will be trying again as I think it is better than Mach3
> and I want to add some ladder logic for tool changers etc. My description of
> a Mach 3 interface is, it was created by someone high on LSD.  I tried to
> create my own screens with their utility, but, it too had issues.
>
> This time around I document my issues and hopefully they can be added to the
> current install instructions.
>
> Cheers Wallace
>
>
> --
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> Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month.
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>

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Regards /Groete

Marius D. Liebenberg
+27 82 698 3251
+27 12 743 6064
QQ 1767394877


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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Marius Liebenberg]

On 2014-10-20 13:26, Marshland Engineering wrote:
> Thanks for the info. What you have listed I have done many times before.
>
> Here are some of the other issues
> Wireless drivers, you have to know a bit about Linux to find and install
> them.
In this area I have had no problems. The devices normally just plug in 
and work. Having said that I prefer to use wired networks. They are much 
more reliable.

> LinuxCNC put files all over the place. I've yet to find any logic in the way
> it works.
Try using the development brach (master branch) and run the RIP 
(run-in-place) option. All the files are under the repository tree and 
in one place.
The way linux uses the file tree is very specific and is standard for 
most linux / Unix systems.
have a look at this representation for clarity.
https://www.google.co.za/search?q=linux+file+structure&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=isch&imgil=8dsb4g44WiO_IM%253A%253B3Ak9fuM5gniBNM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.tldp.org%25252FLDP%25252Fintro-linux%25252Fhtml%25252Fsect_03_01.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=8dsb4g44WiO_IM%253A%252C3Ak9fuM5gniBNM%252C_&usg=__3dVj4Ne5UFmWJLVyqRA2PYtWk0c%3D#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=eV3huWL0ktFpwM%253A%3BPMSK3wxrteAOkM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fcdn.ttgtmedia.com%252FITKE%252Fuploads%252Fblogs.dir%252F77%252Ffiles%252F2008%252F09%252Flinux_file_structure.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fitknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com%252Flinux-lotus-domino%252Fgraphical-linux-file-structure-representation%252F%3B1000%3B647



> Creating disk partitions is somewhat confusing.
Just use the whole disc for linux. I never bother to split the partitions.

> Funny enough, connection to a windows network is easy. However, one time I
> had a Linux Guru work on my dual boot for 3 hours trying to get Linux to see
> the windows drives.
> So I have to mount them first  Windows users have no idea about
> mounting, or samba etc etc
>
> But most of all I could not get the PID control, my servo drives and motors
> to respond correctly.
> On the setup, some things are not explained in sufficient detail to make a
> valid choice and others don't work.
>
> Linux CNC is like learing another language and it takes time. The G-Code is
> the easy part.
> Needless to say I will be trying again as I think it is better than Mach3
> and I want to add some ladder logic for tool changers etc. My description of
> a Mach 3 interface is, it was created by someone high on LSD.  I tried to
> create my own screens with their utility, but, it too had issues.
>
> This time around I document my issues and hopefully they can be added to the
> current install instructions.
Do that so that we can help where possible.

> Cheers Wallace
>
>
> --
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>

-- 

Regards /Groete

Marius D. Liebenberg
+27 82 698 3251
+27 12 743 6064
QQ 1767394877


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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Marshland Engineering]

Thanks for the info. What you have listed I have done many times before.

Here are some of the other issues
Wireless drivers, you have to know a bit about Linux to find and install 
them.
LinuxCNC put files all over the place. I've yet to find any logic in the way 
it works.
Creating disk partitions is somewhat confusing.
Funny enough, connection to a windows network is easy. However, one time I 
had a Linux Guru work on my dual boot for 3 hours trying to get Linux to see 
the windows drives.
So I have to mount them first  Windows users have no idea about 
mounting, or samba etc etc

But most of all I could not get the PID control, my servo drives and motors 
to respond correctly.
On the setup, some things are not explained in sufficient detail to make a 
valid choice and others don't work.

Linux CNC is like learing another language and it takes time. The G-Code is 
the easy part.
Needless to say I will be trying again as I think it is better than Mach3 
and I want to add some ladder logic for tool changers etc. My description of 
a Mach 3 interface is, it was created by someone high on LSD.  I tried to 
create my own screens with their utility, but, it too had issues.

This time around I document my issues and hopefully they can be added to the 
current install instructions.

Cheers Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Marcus Bowman]

On 19 Oct 2014, at 20:42, Marshland Engineering wrote:

> I'm about to start my 3 or 4 attempt to get LinuxCNC running. So far over the
> past 5 years I have spent several 100 hours trying to get things to work with
> little success.
> 
> Bear in mind that it's not just LinuxCNC, it is all of Linux you have to learn
> etc, Git Gedit repository Sudo etc. 
> 

Actually, I did it without much of that knowledge. Start with the recommended 
fresh installation procedure and go with the current stable version and the 
recommended version of Linux.
I installed Linux then installed LinuxCNC.
The bit I found a bit awkward was a little later on when I found I had to deal 
with the Update Manager.
Not a major headache, though.

Marcus

> I must say that with steppers (which we have had running) is quite simple. Now
> using Mesa bits and servo drives was a complete headache. I suppose 2 kw
> motors are a different beast. 
> 
> I have put time aside in Nov and Dec this year to try and get it going again.
> Wish me luck. 
> 
> Thanking you
> Wallace Weideman
> Marshland Engineering
> 704 Marshland Road
> Styx
> Christchurch
> 03 3237449
> www.marshland.co.nz
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 20 October 2014 07:07, craig  wrote:

> 1.  Wat is the minimum reading needed to migrate a simple gantry, steper
> controlled router (or mill) from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

That rather depends on how Mach3 is controlling the gantry.
Is this a gantry with a motor at each end? If so, how is homing
configured? One stepgen or two?

> 2.  What elements/codes might need editing in existing g-code files?
> What would you look for (scan for) in files to flag the possible need
> for editing?

G-code files without any custom codes should run without modification.

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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Marius Liebenberg]

Hi Wallace
If I can give some advice on getting things going.
I have done many installations of linuxcnc and always follow this route.

1: Download the linuxcnc LIVE-CD image and burn it to a disc. (keep the 
disc) This might help 
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/common/Getting_EMC.html#_getting_linuxcnc
2: Set your mother board BIOS to boot from CD
3: Boot the machine and follow the prompts. Dont do anything fancy but 
go as standard as possible. Keep the machine connected to the internet. 
You will be prompted at some stage by the update manager to get the 
latest of all software. Do so but dont upgrade to 12.04.
4: Once the machine is running, follow the steps on this page. 
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC
You will be installing on Ubuntu 10.04 so just follow those instructions.

As I said, I have done many machines and always do just as I explained 
above.
Good luck with your installation and remember that the community is here 
to help. Just ask :)


On 2014-10-19 21:42, Marshland Engineering wrote:
> I'm about to start my 3 or 4 attempt to get LinuxCNC running. So far over the
> past 5 years I have spent several 100 hours trying to get things to work with
> little success.
>
> Bear in mind that it's not just LinuxCNC, it is all of Linux you have to learn
> etc, Git Gedit repository Sudo etc.
>
> I must say that with steppers (which we have had running) is quite simple. Now
> using Mesa bits and servo drives was a complete headache. I suppose 2 kw
> motors are a different beast.
>
> I have put time aside in Nov and Dec this year to try and get it going again.
> Wish me luck.
>
> Thanking you
> Wallace Weideman
> Marshland Engineering
> 704 Marshland Road
> Styx
> Christchurch
> 03 3237449
> www.marshland.co.nz
>
>
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-- 

Regards /Groete

Marius D. Liebenberg
+27 82 698 3251
+27 12 743 6064
QQ 1767394877


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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[craig]

Since I am considering migrating, I  have some questions.  I think these 
would address most of the concers of a large percentage of hobby level 
users.

1.  Wat is the minimum reading needed to migrate a simple gantry, steper 
controlled router (or mill) from Mach3 to LinuxCNC, for someone with a 
very limited knowledge of Linux?   A list would be very much 
appreciated (which chapters/parts of which documents).

2.  What elements/codes might need editing in existing g-code files?  
What would you look for (scan for) in files to flag the possible need 
for editing?

Comments from those who recently migrated would be useful as well as 
from the more knowledgeable users.

Similar information would be useful for those converting a lathe.

Craig

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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Marshland Engineering]

I'm about to start my 3 or 4 attempt to get LinuxCNC running. So far over the
past 5 years I have spent several 100 hours trying to get things to work with
little success.

Bear in mind that it's not just LinuxCNC, it is all of Linux you have to learn
etc, Git Gedit repository Sudo etc. 

I must say that with steppers (which we have had running) is quite simple. Now
using Mesa bits and servo drives was a complete headache. I suppose 2 kw
motors are a different beast. 

I have put time aside in Nov and Dec this year to try and get it going again.
Wish me luck. 

Thanking you
Wallace Weideman
Marshland Engineering
704 Marshland Road
Styx
Christchurch
03 3237449
www.marshland.co.nz


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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Jack Coats]

I agree.

If you have problems with Mach, for whatever reasons, LinuxCNC is a
great, low cost, experiment before tossing more money at it.

If you are an experimenter at heart, having BOTH is a good idea.  Most
of us are not in that position.  LinuxCNC seems to scale from big
hardware to small desktop (or smaller, or larger depending on your
needs).

G/M-code support can be done on minimal machines to anything bigger.
(There are DOS, RaspberryPi, and arduino implementations of
interpreters.)  Once you get to desktop size machines or larger it
takes to run LinuxCNC or Mach much more can be done in the way of
trajectory planning, etc.

For the cost for most of our machines, the incremental price of Mach
with Windows is real but not 'significant' compared to what it takes
for us to build and run our machines.  Still, I would rather spend the
money elsewhere if possible.

I do see WHY some go to Mach.  They don't know or trust 'free
software'.  An irrational fear, but real.  So they would rather buy a
solution they 'can get support for' rather than having to get involved
in a community to know how to obtain real good, fast support.  So if
they feel their time is better spent by spending money rather than
investing in themselves, their education and giving back, it is their
choice to make.  There are many that do.  They vote that way with
their pocket book.

Full disclosure:
Growing up in the computing industry, I started as an anti-M$ geek
from Bill Gates 'Open Letter to Hobbyists' days (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists ).  That is not
a good reason not to use it if M$ based tools are the best for the
job, but that is where my attitude / perspective started and has only
been supported by M$ adversarial actions toward their customer base
ever since.  Realistically, I use M$ products, mainly because my wife
(and her employer) has a warm and fuzzy about using them, and from the
'if mamma ain't happy, nobody is happy' camp, it isn't worth the
battle.  Even if non-M$ is a better technical solution, IMHO.  --
BTW, I have been using Linux since kernel 0.97, so I have stuck with
it for a while.

On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Dave Cole  wrote:
> On 10/19/2014 3:19 PM, andy pugh wrote:
>> On 19 October 2014 01:52, Jack Coats  wrote:
>>> There is an article in Digital Machinist, Vol 9 No 3, Fall 2014 with the 
>>> title
>>> "Migrating from Mach3 to LinuxCNC" by Thomas Allsup (page 24).
>> I wonder why anyone would want to?
>> By which I mean, if you have a working, paid for Mach3 installation
>> running a machine and making parts, why would you throw it all up in
>> the air to change to some different (and approximately equivalent)
>> software?
>
> I would assume that he ran into some issues with Mach3 and decided to
> move to LinuxCNC.
> It is not difficult to find issues with Mach3 that are hard or
> impossibile to resolve.
>
> I was starting to feel bad for the Mach3 camp, then I saw that there are
> two other articles in the magazine that are about Mach3.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
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><> ... Jack

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"Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." -
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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

On 10/19/2014 3:19 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 19 October 2014 01:52, Jack Coats  wrote:
>> There is an article in Digital Machinist, Vol 9 No 3, Fall 2014 with the 
>> title
>> "Migrating from Mach3 to LinuxCNC" by Thomas Allsup (page 24).
> I wonder why anyone would want to?
> By which I mean, if you have a working, paid for Mach3 installation
> running a machine and making parts, why would you throw it all up in
> the air to change to some different (and approximately equivalent)
> software?

I would assume that he ran into some issues with Mach3 and decided to 
move to LinuxCNC.
It is not difficult to find issues with Mach3 that are hard or 
impossibile to resolve.

I was starting to feel bad for the Mach3 camp, then I saw that there are 
two other articles in the magazine that are about Mach3.

Dave





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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 19 October 2014 01:52, Jack Coats  wrote:
> There is an article in Digital Machinist, Vol 9 No 3, Fall 2014 with the title
> "Migrating from Mach3 to LinuxCNC" by Thomas Allsup (page 24).

I wonder why anyone would want to?
By which I mean, if you have a working, paid for Mach3 installation
running a machine and making parts, why would you throw it all up in
the air to change to some different (and approximately equivalent)
software?

-- 
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http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Bruce Layne]

On 10/19/2014 11:39 AM, p...@wpnet.us wrote:

> What will not be a driver of any switch is "fit and finish" as LinuxCNC still 
> lags Mach3 in this area.

Like all matters of aesthetics, user interface appearance is very 
subjective.  However, I consider the LinuxCNC user interface to be 
vastly superior to Mach 3.  Whenever I see Mach 3, the graphical 
interface looks clunky with very jaggy edges on the buttons and a very 
low-res look.  I also think the bright primary colors lack a 
professional appearance although I suppose the colorful screen looks 
friendly to many Mach users, in much the same way that "DON'T PANIC" 
boldly emblazoned on the cover of The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy 
increases its consumer appeal.  To me, the colorful low resolution 
interface looks like educational software for pre-school children, circa 
1986.

Mach is a very successful product, and I'm too much of a defender of 
free market capitalism to begrudge them their success.  They are clearly 
satisfying a significant portion of the hobbyist and low-end 
professional CNC market, and more power to them.  I don't get it, but I 
don't need to get it.

LinuxCNC doesn't look the same as many of the modern commercial CNC 
controllers from the big name machine manufacturers, but it looks 
similar to me.  I love the graphical representation of the tool path.  
It does everything I need, and if I need anything else, I'm free to roll 
up my sleeves and start coding.

With the ready availability of very low cost small commercial milling 
machines on the used market in this down economy (at least in the US) 
and the ease of installing and configuring LinuxCNC, I'm not sure how 
some of the manufacturers of $10,000 to $20,000 Mach based stepper motor 
driven machines are selling their products.  I know people just starting 
out want a turn key solution with that new machine smell, but it looks 
like the market would spontaneously generate a few businesses that 
specialized in buying used machines in good mechanical condition with 
outdated or blown controls, cleaning them up, giving them a new coat of 
epoxy paint, installing LinuxCNC with readily available interface and 
drive electronics, and selling these much more capable machines for less 
than a new hobby machine... complete with delivery, setup, and two hours 
of training.



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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 19 October 2014 10:22:07 Bruce Layne did opine
And Gene did reply:
> I'm always trying to nudge my friends and YouTube garage machining
> buddies to adopt LinuxCNC.  It's good natured, but I am serious.  I
> notice reluctance on their part, but I try to reassure them by telling
> them, at this point, I really don't see how Mach could be any easier to
> install and configure.  Other than sending a free technician to do it
> for you, it's about as easy as it gets.  But there still seems to be
> some hesitation.  They seem to regard me as the siren of Greek
> mythology, trying to entice their ship onto the rocks.
> 
> Last week, a friend's hard drive crashed on his mill and he spent most
> of the week getting it running again, and most of that of course was
> Windows and Mach.  I told him that I routinely backup the small
> LinuxCNC folder by dragging it to a USB thumb drive.  That contains
> all of my machine configuration files and all of my G code.  If my
> hard drive died, I'd plug in a new one, pop in the Ubuntu/LinuxCNC
> thumb drive and reinstall everything in a few minutes, then drag the
> old LinuxCNC folder to the new hard drive and Bob's your uncle.  I'm
> making chips.  Tell me again how Linux is too geeky complicated and
> Mach and Windows is so easy?
> 
> There are plenty of people who genuinely like Mach and do a lot of free
> advertising for them, including hardware manufacturers who say things
> like, "No matter what you start with, you'll end up using Mach."  But
> for each of these Mach cheerleaders, there seem to be a person on the
> serious side of hobby machining, typically people who started with CNC
> as a hobby who are now doing KickStarter manufacturing, opening small
> town machine shops, etc., and they started with Mach but seem unhappy
> with it.  They're the Mach captives.  They use Mach, including the more
> advanced features, but they make disparaging comments.  I watch their
> YouTube videos and they say, "Well, I went back out to the shop and
> Mach had crashed again.  Big surprise."  But these captives seem to be
> suffering from the CNC version of Stockholm Syndrome.  They're
> sympathizing with their captors.  When I suggest how easy it'd be to
> swap hard drives and install LinuxCNC and use the same hardware, (and
> I've even volunteered to do it for them) and if they didn't like it
> they could put the old hard drive back in and not miss a thing, they
> mumble a bit and change the subject.  Typically, their little CNC
> machine shipped with Mach and they're afraid to wander off the
> reservation.
> 
> Here's a partial summary of the issue of Digital Machinist that Jack
> mentioned:
> 
> http://www.digitalmachinist.net/comingsoon/contents/view
> 
> There's an article in there (that I haven't read) about using LED ring
> lights for spindle mounted workpiece lighting.  I bought a very nice
> Aluminator 2.0 LED ring light on eBay on August 30th that's made to
> magnetically attach to the spindle.  It's very nice and well worth the
> US$125 on my milling machine.  My old eyes need all the light I can
> get.
> 
> www.ebay.com/itm/400759473641
> 
> On October 7th, I bought an 80mm Angel Eyes LED ring light on eBay for
> US$11 that's marketed as accent lighting to surround an automotive
> headlight.  It requires half an amp at 12 volts and it will require a
> bit of redneck engineering (I'm thinking 3M VHB double sided foam tape,
> or I may machine a PVC housing) to attach to the 80mm water cooled
> spindle motor on my CNC router.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281435821348
 
I went to his "store" but the smallest was a 60mm, still too big, need 
about 40mm maximum on my toy mill.  But 2 of them for 18.95 USD seems like 
a heck of a deal.  Available either in the exaggerated warm white, or in 
blue heavy white.  In my case, a 20mm would be better than the leds in the 
endoscopy camera I have on the mill. That would get the light farther off 
axis and reduce the specular reflections that rather effectively blind it 
when searching for a target scratch. The leds in it are on about a 5mm 
circle surrounding the camera lens.  That is effectively the same as 
holding the flashlight rear end on your nose when surveying your real 
estate for eyes looking back at you in the bush after dark.

If the reflection is red, only 2 candidates, a Siamese cat, or a human.  
Act accordingly if its human & doesn't belong there.

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS

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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Lester Caine]

On 19/10/14 16:14, John Alexander Stewart wrote:
> Windows still has a strangle hold on desktop computing, even though
> Microsoft is nowhere to be seen in the mobile field. For the first time
> since 1996, I'm getting a windows desktop at work; Microsoft still has a
> stranglehold on corporate/government offices.

My laptop with the CAD/CAM on is still W7, but for the last couple of
months it has had a problem with 'updates' and while some are now
getting through, I can't run update manually. As a result I've been
looking at the Linux alternatives, and things like FreeCAD, LibreCAD and
since I'm also on PCB layout, KiCAD are pushing to be usable
replacements. Since the rest of my desktop has been Linux for many years
it's a refreshing change!

Started to document the change
http://medw.co.uk/wiki/Living+with+CAD-CAM+today

-- 
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-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[pc]

Way back when I started in on home CNC, I did a trial between Mach3 and EMC 
(pre-EMC2/LinuxCNC days), and Mach3 won resoundingly for it's vastly better 
"fit and finish and useabiliy". Today I'm starting in with LinuxCNC again on a 
lathe conversion and eventually a conversion on a CNC mill with a "proper 
commercial control". While I'm finding LinuxCN vastly improved from the EMC 
days, it is still behind Mach3 in terms of "fit and finish" as well as 
documentation (terrible documentation seems to be the bane of all things Linux).

I think there will be two drivers to a shift from Mach3 to LinuxCNC if one does 
occur, and those will be:

1. General hate for Win8. Win XP, 2K and 7 were fine, 8 is an absolute POS.

2. Better hardware available to work with LinuxCNC, notably the Mesa boards. We 
still need to get away from reliance on ever changing system slots and to USB 
or Ethernet linked motion controllers though.

What will not be a driver of any switch is "fit and finish" as LinuxCNC still 
lags Mach3 in this area. Indeed I have read posts in the LinuxCNC world with 
people extolling how they don't want LinuxCNC to look like a commercial CNC 
control which is mind boggling since the commercial controls have evolved far 
longer than LinuxCNC and set the standard in UI for machinists.


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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[John Alexander Stewart]

Ah! But, was the author successful? (have to wait for my copy to arrive so
that I can find out!)

You (meaning, all of us) must remember that many people are either 1) low
on the computer knowledge scale, or 2) reluctant to change.

I think most/all of us here are able to think out of the box, but others
are not.

Windows still has a strangle hold on desktop computing, even though
Microsoft is nowhere to be seen in the mobile field. For the first time
since 1996, I'm getting a windows desktop at work; Microsoft still has a
stranglehold on corporate/government offices.

JohnS
​
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Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Dave Caroline]

I would say the migration has started. I went to the UK Midlands Model
Engineer Show on Friday. instead of a few users showing Mach there was
only one and he was dual booting to linuxcnc to show threading.
Another had a small gantry with linuxcnc

An improvement on previous years.

Dave Caroline

On 19/10/2014, Bruce Layne  wrote:
> I'm always trying to nudge my friends and YouTube garage machining
> buddies to adopt LinuxCNC.  It's good natured, but I am serious.  I
> notice reluctance on their part, but I try to reassure them by telling
> them, at this point, I really don't see how Mach could be any easier to
> install and configure.  Other than sending a free technician to do it
> for you, it's about as easy as it gets.  But there still seems to be
> some hesitation.  They seem to regard me as the siren of Greek
> mythology, trying to entice their ship onto the rocks.
>
> Last week, a friend's hard drive crashed on his mill and he spent most
> of the week getting it running again, and most of that of course was
> Windows and Mach.  I told him that I routinely backup the small LinuxCNC
> folder by dragging it to a USB thumb drive.  That contains all of my
> machine configuration files and all of my G code.  If my hard drive
> died, I'd plug in a new one, pop in the Ubuntu/LinuxCNC thumb drive and
> reinstall everything in a few minutes, then drag the old LinuxCNC folder
> to the new hard drive and Bob's your uncle.  I'm making chips.  Tell me
> again how Linux is too geeky complicated and Mach and Windows is so easy?
>
> There are plenty of people who genuinely like Mach and do a lot of free
> advertising for them, including hardware manufacturers who say things
> like, "No matter what you start with, you'll end up using Mach."  But
> for each of these Mach cheerleaders, there seem to be a person on the
> serious side of hobby machining, typically people who started with CNC
> as a hobby who are now doing KickStarter manufacturing, opening small
> town machine shops, etc., and they started with Mach but seem unhappy
> with it.  They're the Mach captives.  They use Mach, including the more
> advanced features, but they make disparaging comments.  I watch their
> YouTube videos and they say, "Well, I went back out to the shop and Mach
> had crashed again.  Big surprise."  But these captives seem to be
> suffering from the CNC version of Stockholm Syndrome.  They're
> sympathizing with their captors.  When I suggest how easy it'd be to
> swap hard drives and install LinuxCNC and use the same hardware, (and
> I've even volunteered to do it for them) and if they didn't like it they
> could put the old hard drive back in and not miss a thing, they mumble a
> bit and change the subject.  Typically, their little CNC machine shipped
> with Mach and they're afraid to wander off the reservation.
>
> Here's a partial summary of the issue of Digital Machinist that Jack
> mentioned:
>
> http://www.digitalmachinist.net/comingsoon/contents/view
>
> There's an article in there (that I haven't read) about using LED ring
> lights for spindle mounted workpiece lighting.  I bought a very nice
> Aluminator 2.0 LED ring light on eBay on August 30th that's made to
> magnetically attach to the spindle.  It's very nice and well worth the
> US$125 on my milling machine.  My old eyes need all the light I can get.
>
> www.ebay.com/itm/400759473641
>
> On October 7th, I bought an 80mm Angel Eyes LED ring light on eBay for
> US$11 that's marketed as accent lighting to surround an automotive
> headlight.  It requires half an amp at 12 volts and it will require a
> bit of redneck engineering (I'm thinking 3M VHB double sided foam tape,
> or I may machine a PVC housing) to attach to the 80mm water cooled
> spindle motor on my CNC router.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281435821348
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/19/2014 09:00 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
>> WhoaThat's a body blow to the Mach3 camp.
>>
>> The article they wanted:  Migrating from Mach3 to Mach4   :-)
>>
>> The article they got:  Migrating from Mach3 to LinuxCNC...:-(
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On 10/18/2014 8:52 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
>>> There is an article in Digital Machinist, Vol 9 No 3, Fall 2014 with the
>>> title
>>> "Migrating from Mach3 to LinuxCNC" by Thomas Allsup (page 24).
>>>
>>> In case someone wants to check it out.  I haven't read it yet.
>>>
>>> Just thought someone might be interested.
>>>
 <> ... Jack
>>> "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart"... Colossians 3:23
>>> "Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." -
>>> Albert Einstein
>>> "You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people." -
>>> Admiral Grace Hopper, USN
>>> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I
>>> learn." - Ben Franklin
>>>
>>> --
>>> Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7.
>>> Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month.
>>> Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls 

Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Bruce Layne]

I'm always trying to nudge my friends and YouTube garage machining 
buddies to adopt LinuxCNC.  It's good natured, but I am serious.  I 
notice reluctance on their part, but I try to reassure them by telling 
them, at this point, I really don't see how Mach could be any easier to 
install and configure.  Other than sending a free technician to do it 
for you, it's about as easy as it gets.  But there still seems to be 
some hesitation.  They seem to regard me as the siren of Greek 
mythology, trying to entice their ship onto the rocks.

Last week, a friend's hard drive crashed on his mill and he spent most 
of the week getting it running again, and most of that of course was 
Windows and Mach.  I told him that I routinely backup the small LinuxCNC 
folder by dragging it to a USB thumb drive.  That contains all of my 
machine configuration files and all of my G code.  If my hard drive 
died, I'd plug in a new one, pop in the Ubuntu/LinuxCNC thumb drive and 
reinstall everything in a few minutes, then drag the old LinuxCNC folder 
to the new hard drive and Bob's your uncle.  I'm making chips.  Tell me 
again how Linux is too geeky complicated and Mach and Windows is so easy?

There are plenty of people who genuinely like Mach and do a lot of free 
advertising for them, including hardware manufacturers who say things 
like, "No matter what you start with, you'll end up using Mach."  But 
for each of these Mach cheerleaders, there seem to be a person on the 
serious side of hobby machining, typically people who started with CNC 
as a hobby who are now doing KickStarter manufacturing, opening small 
town machine shops, etc., and they started with Mach but seem unhappy 
with it.  They're the Mach captives.  They use Mach, including the more 
advanced features, but they make disparaging comments.  I watch their 
YouTube videos and they say, "Well, I went back out to the shop and Mach 
had crashed again.  Big surprise."  But these captives seem to be 
suffering from the CNC version of Stockholm Syndrome.  They're 
sympathizing with their captors.  When I suggest how easy it'd be to 
swap hard drives and install LinuxCNC and use the same hardware, (and 
I've even volunteered to do it for them) and if they didn't like it they 
could put the old hard drive back in and not miss a thing, they mumble a 
bit and change the subject.  Typically, their little CNC machine shipped 
with Mach and they're afraid to wander off the reservation.

Here's a partial summary of the issue of Digital Machinist that Jack 
mentioned:

http://www.digitalmachinist.net/comingsoon/contents/view

There's an article in there (that I haven't read) about using LED ring 
lights for spindle mounted workpiece lighting.  I bought a very nice 
Aluminator 2.0 LED ring light on eBay on August 30th that's made to 
magnetically attach to the spindle.  It's very nice and well worth the 
US$125 on my milling machine.  My old eyes need all the light I can get.

www.ebay.com/itm/400759473641

On October 7th, I bought an 80mm Angel Eyes LED ring light on eBay for 
US$11 that's marketed as accent lighting to surround an automotive 
headlight.  It requires half an amp at 12 volts and it will require a 
bit of redneck engineering (I'm thinking 3M VHB double sided foam tape, 
or I may machine a PVC housing) to attach to the 80mm water cooled 
spindle motor on my CNC router.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281435821348





On 10/19/2014 09:00 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> WhoaThat's a body blow to the Mach3 camp.
>
> The article they wanted:  Migrating from Mach3 to Mach4   :-)
>
> The article they got:  Migrating from Mach3 to LinuxCNC...:-(
>
> Dave
>
> On 10/18/2014 8:52 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
>> There is an article in Digital Machinist, Vol 9 No 3, Fall 2014 with the 
>> title
>> "Migrating from Mach3 to LinuxCNC" by Thomas Allsup (page 24).
>>
>> In case someone wants to check it out.  I haven't read it yet.
>>
>> Just thought someone might be interested.
>>
>>> <> ... Jack
>> "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart"... Colossians 3:23
>> "Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." -
>> Albert Einstein
>> "You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people." -
>> Admiral Grace Hopper, USN
>> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I
>> learn." - Ben Franklin
>>
>> --
>> Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7.
>> Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month.
>> Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications.
>> Take corrective actions from your mobile device.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
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> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
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>
> --

Re: [Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Dave Cole]

WhoaThat's a body blow to the Mach3 camp.

The article they wanted:  Migrating from Mach3 to Mach4   :-)

The article they got:  Migrating from Mach3 to LinuxCNC...:-(

Dave

On 10/18/2014 8:52 PM, Jack Coats wrote:
> There is an article in Digital Machinist, Vol 9 No 3, Fall 2014 with the title
> "Migrating from Mach3 to LinuxCNC" by Thomas Allsup (page 24).
>
> In case someone wants to check it out.  I haven't read it yet.
>
> Just thought someone might be interested.
>
>> <> ... Jack
> "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart"... Colossians 3:23
> "Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." -
> Albert Einstein
> "You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people." -
> Admiral Grace Hopper, USN
> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I
> learn." - Ben Franklin
>
> --
> Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7.
> Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month.
> Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications.
> Take corrective actions from your mobile device.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

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[Emc-users] How to Migrate from Mach3 to LinuxCNC

[Jack Coats]

There is an article in Digital Machinist, Vol 9 No 3, Fall 2014 with the title
"Migrating from Mach3 to LinuxCNC" by Thomas Allsup (page 24).

In case someone wants to check it out.  I haven't read it yet.

Just thought someone might be interested.

><> ... Jack

"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart"... Colossians 3:23
"Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." -
Albert Einstein
"You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people." -
Admiral Grace Hopper, USN
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I
learn." - Ben Franklin

--
Comprehensive Server Monitoring with Site24x7.
Monitor 10 servers for $9/Month.
Get alerted through email, SMS, voice calls or mobile push notifications.
Take corrective actions from your mobile device.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/Zoho
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users