Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 17 June 2020 13:38:20 Dave Matthews wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 1:04 PM Chris Albertson
>
>  wrote:
> > Gene,
> >
> >
> > I just went and looked at the Ender3 printer.  There is one major
> > difference between your Ender3 and My Anet A6.   Yours uses a
> > "Bowden Tube" type feed system and mine is direct drive.  So on your
> > system, the motor that moves the PLA filament is mounted to the
> > frame and pushes the filament into the Teflon tube.   On my printer,
> > the motor is an integral part of the print head and those "pusher
> > gears" are just a few mm above the nozzle. They use fins and a fan
> > to keep heat from the motor. The advantage of your is a lighter head
> > that can move faster and more accurately.   Mine has better control
> > of plastic quantity and flow rate. People will argue which is best.
>
> This post reminded me that I had a problem with the feed on my CR-10s
> at one time.  The grub screws on the filament feed gear were slipping
> on the shaft.  I ended up getting some gears with two screws and that
> took care of the problem.  Check to see if the filament feed gear is
> slipping.  I am guessing the Ender and CR-10 used the same design and
> parts.
>
> Dave


I already thought of that Dave, and no, its not slipping.

>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 17 June 2020 13:01:34 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Gene,
>
>
> I just went and looked at the Ender3 printer.  There is one major
> difference between your Ender3 and My Anet A6.   Yours uses a "Bowden
> Tube" type feed system and mine is direct drive.

True.

> So on your system, 
> the motor that moves the PLA filament is mounted to the frame and
> pushes the filament into the Teflon tube.   On my printer, the motor
> is an integral part of the print head and those "pusher gears" are
> just a few mm above the nozzle. They use fins and a fan to keep heat
> from the motor. The advantage of your is a lighter head that can move
> faster and more accurately.   Mine has better control of plastic
> quantity and flow rate. People will argue which is best.

Forever.
>
> So the print heads are just a totally different design.  Mine also has
> two sets of linear bearings and rides on ground steel rods and the
> rods are not part of the frame but are supported by it.   Yours uses
> the frame as a track,
>
> This is why you never get the fan or blower duct on my printer to fit
> yours.   There are two fans on my print head, one cools the PLA after
> it is printed and the other cools the extruder fins that are above the
> heater.

That is the same as here.

>
> Your printer should be able to make better PLA prints than mine.  But
> mine can print soft materials like TPU.   TPU filament is like a
> "gummy bear" and is very hard to push through a Bowden tube.   I've
> used TPU to make rubber tires for small PLA wheels and rubber
> anti-skid feet and the "skin" over robot fingertips. It is a tough and
> flexible polyurethane.

Sounds interesting but likely hard to control thru a bowden tube due to 
its room temp elasticity.

> This explains it
> https://all3dp.com/2/bowden-tube-all-you-need-to-know/
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:59 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Wednesday 17 June 2020 03:20:36 Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:18 PM Gene Heskett
> > > 
> >
> > wrote:
> > > > Yup.  And it was, feeding about 44mm for 100mm commanded.
> > > >
> > > > Sounds like a clogged nozzle or maybe just needs to be hotter. 
> > > > Or maybe
> > >
> > > the temperature sensor is uncalibrated.
> >
> > Possibly. I have an ir thermometer but thats a very small target.
> > Thermistors are very well known so I not be willing to accept more
> > than 1 degree of error.

I've started another copy of that pulley half, at lower temps, 210/65 to 
start, 205/60 for full run. Mainly because I didn't wait for it to cool, 
so the flange on the bottom was distorted upward by the curve the 
polycarb sheet as I lifted it off for a trip to the fawcet to cool it.  
And it hardened that way. On the restart it acted like it was too far 
from the bed at the back, no adhesion, but about a knobs turn cw of the 
adjust wheels on the rear of the bed fixed that and it started sticking. 
Slowed cura to 100% feed. lowered the temps and resliced it, then copied 
the gcode back to the sd card. Again I had to screw around for a long 
time before I was able to save a new .mf3 file. That menu is too well 
hidden.

Looking good at about 45% done. I touched the new fan duct and wrecked it 
with the hot extruder block so I put the first one back on when I 
reassembled it.  I'll make another of those next. Maybe I won't have to 
paint it to seal it up and stop the air loss?

> > > Using less filament than commanded means it is slipping on the
> > > feed rollers.  There is a pressure adjustment.  On my printer it
> > > is a screw with a spring and you adjust it to control pressure on
> > > the rollers.
> >
> > I'd say its sufficient as I almost have to use a pair of pliars to
> > open it far enough to feed by hand. So I'd discount that slippage
> > theory. The grip is truly a high byte grip.  At the knurled roller,
> > I'd have to guess 75-100 lbs of squeeze.  And the rollers knurling
> > is sharp.
> >
> > > But these are the kinds of details that vary from one printer to
> > > the other.
> > >
> > > If this is a mechanical issue you shouldn't try and compensate
> > > with a software setting.

But it wasn't slippage, so the steps/mm adjustment was the proper fix. 
OOTB it was set at a high 92.something, giving a hair over 42.7mm for a 
100mm move command.  But that took much of an hour spinning the knob to 
advance it to around 245.00 because the tweak is only .01 per 
click=damned tired fingers in spite of all the arther itis crap I 
take...

The Overture brand pla I bought two kg rolls of, comes with a stick on 
bed cover per roll, but its too small for the ender3, by about 5/8" all 
around.  And its not magnetic. Looks like I need to cultivate a src for 
the real thing or switch to glass.  But I like the idea of removeing it 
when fully cooled and flexing it to release the part. Glass doesn't 
bend. so that release method doesn't work.

With luck, I'll have that bag of 10 ATS-667's from digi=key yet today and 
that will give be enough to 

Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Dave Matthews]

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 1:04 PM Chris Albertson
 wrote:
>
> Gene,
>
>
> I just went and looked at the Ender3 printer.  There is one major
> difference between your Ender3 and My Anet A6.   Yours uses a "Bowden Tube"
> type feed system and mine is direct drive.  So on your system, the motor
> that moves the PLA filament is mounted to the frame and pushes the
> filament into the Teflon tube.   On my printer, the motor is an
> integral part of the print head and those "pusher gears" are just a few mm
> above the nozzle. They use fins and a fan to keep heat from the motor.
> The advantage of your is a lighter head that can move faster and more
> accurately.   Mine has better control of plastic quantity and flow rate.
>  People will argue which is best.
>

This post reminded me that I had a problem with the feed on my CR-10s
at one time.  The grub screws on the filament feed gear were slipping
on the shaft.  I ended up getting some gears with two screws and that
took care of the problem.  Check to see if the filament feed gear is
slipping.  I am guessing the Ender and CR-10 used the same design and
parts.

Dave


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Chris Albertson]

Gene,


I just went and looked at the Ender3 printer.  There is one major
difference between your Ender3 and My Anet A6.   Yours uses a "Bowden Tube"
type feed system and mine is direct drive.  So on your system, the motor
that moves the PLA filament is mounted to the frame and pushes the
filament into the Teflon tube.   On my printer, the motor is an
integral part of the print head and those "pusher gears" are just a few mm
above the nozzle. They use fins and a fan to keep heat from the motor.
The advantage of your is a lighter head that can move faster and more
accurately.   Mine has better control of plastic quantity and flow rate.
 People will argue which is best.

So the print heads are just a totally different design.  Mine also has two
sets of linear bearings and rides on ground steel rods and the rods are not
part of the frame but are supported by it.   Yours uses the frame as a
track,

This is why you never get the fan or blower duct on my printer to fit
yours.   There are two fans on my print head, one cools the PLA after it is
printed and the other cools the extruder fins that are above the heater.

Your printer should be able to make better PLA prints than mine.  But mine
can print soft materials like TPU.   TPU filament is like a "gummy bear"
and is very hard to push through a Bowden tube.   I've used TPU to make
rubber tires for small PLA wheels and rubber anti-skid feet and the "skin"
over robot fingertips. It is a tough and flexible polyurethane.

This explains it
https://all3dp.com/2/bowden-tube-all-you-need-to-know/



On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:59 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Wednesday 17 June 2020 03:20:36 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:18 PM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > Yup.  And it was, feeding about 44mm for 100mm commanded.
> > >
> > > Sounds like a clogged nozzle or maybe just needs to be hotter.  Or
> > > maybe
> >
> > the temperature sensor is uncalibrated.
>
> Possibly. I have an ir thermometer but thats a very small target.
> Thermistors are very well known so I not be willing to accept more than
> 1 degree of error.
> > Using less filament than commanded means it is slipping on the feed
> > rollers.  There is a pressure adjustment.  On my printer it is a screw
> > with a spring and you adjust it to control pressure on the rollers.
>
> I'd say its sufficient as I almost have to use a pair of pliars to open
> it far enough to feed by hand. So I'd discount that slippage theory.
> The grip is truly a high byte grip.  At the knurled roller, I'd have to
> guess 75-100 lbs of squeeze.  And the rollers knurling is sharp.
>
> > But these are the kinds of details that vary from one printer to the
> > other.
> >
> > If this is a mechanical issue you shouldn't try and compensate with a
> > software setting.
> >
> > I'm lucky and never once even after printing many spools of plastic
> > had even one clogged nozzle.   Being so lucky means I have zero
> > experience with the problem.   But I'd think it is not easy to clear
> > it as it would be filled with hard plastic.
>
> Well, I went to bed with it makeing a new 30 tooth outer half sprocket
> for an XL belt.  Its now about 11.5mm up from the bed and I have never
> seen anything like it, the teeth are well shaped and solidly rendered.
> Unless its oversize, in which case I'll go back and make a few more
> 5x5's and re-calibrate that, it will be a plumb purty sprocket, 100%
> usable.  Smooth, no loose threads anyplace I can see except some
> slobbering in the base layer.  Looks like solid plastic out of an
> injection die.  Best by far of anything else I've done. Getting it off
> the bed may take some effort though, 225C/75C sticks it way too tight.
> Welded to the polycarb cover sheet is a good description.  Got about an
> hour and a half to go.
>
> Starved for PLA, even 210/65 didn't stick. Recommended 200/60 might even
> work, so cura gets cooled a few for the next slice. The Saintsmart
> manual even uses a 40C bed, but that pdf is 3 years old too.
>
> The first thing I ever did was the waving cat. Outside walls might be a
> 10% fill.  So it came OOTB totally fubar.
>
> Oh, and as far as its being spring mounted, no, its solidly bolted to the
> X carriage at the top, I had it all apart just to change the nozzle as
> it was welded in by leakage past the threads and had to be heated above
> 185C to get it loose with that toy wrench.
>
> Thanks Chris.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Thaddeus Waldner]

I have the added “benefit” with the old Stratasys of the print head and nozzle 
assembly costing around $1200 USD. 

Best way to unclog this beast is first heat it up to near 300C, then feed a 
piece of bare, solid 14AWG copper into the extruder. Go slow, so that the 
copper has time to heat up. This will push most of the charred bits out of the 
nozzle. After removing the copper wire, I use a fine strand of steel off a thin 
wire rope—this needs to measure smaller than the nozzle diameter—and “floss” 
the nozzle. 

Works every time.

> 
> I'm lucky and never once even after printing many spools of plastic had
> even one clogged nozzle.   Being so lucky means I have zero experience with
> the problem.   But I'd think it is not easy to clear it as it would be
> filled with hard plastic.
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 17 June 2020 03:20:36 Chris Albertson wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:18 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Yup.  And it was, feeding about 44mm for 100mm commanded.
> >
> > Sounds like a clogged nozzle or maybe just needs to be hotter.  Or
> > maybe
>
> the temperature sensor is uncalibrated.

Possibly. I have an ir thermometer but thats a very small target.  
Thermistors are very well known so I not be willing to accept more than 
1 degree of error.
> Using less filament than commanded means it is slipping on the feed
> rollers.  There is a pressure adjustment.  On my printer it is a screw
> with a spring and you adjust it to control pressure on the rollers. 

I'd say its sufficient as I almost have to use a pair of pliars to open 
it far enough to feed by hand. So I'd discount that slippage theory.  
The grip is truly a high byte grip.  At the knurled roller, I'd have to 
guess 75-100 lbs of squeeze.  And the rollers knurling is sharp.
 
> But these are the kinds of details that vary from one printer to the
> other.
>
> If this is a mechanical issue you shouldn't try and compensate with a
> software setting.
>
> I'm lucky and never once even after printing many spools of plastic
> had even one clogged nozzle.   Being so lucky means I have zero
> experience with the problem.   But I'd think it is not easy to clear
> it as it would be filled with hard plastic.

Well, I went to bed with it makeing a new 30 tooth outer half sprocket 
for an XL belt.  Its now about 11.5mm up from the bed and I have never 
seen anything like it, the teeth are well shaped and solidly rendered. 
Unless its oversize, in which case I'll go back and make a few more 
5x5's and re-calibrate that, it will be a plumb purty sprocket, 100% 
usable.  Smooth, no loose threads anyplace I can see except some 
slobbering in the base layer.  Looks like solid plastic out of an 
injection die.  Best by far of anything else I've done. Getting it off 
the bed may take some effort though, 225C/75C sticks it way too tight. 
Welded to the polycarb cover sheet is a good description.  Got about an 
hour and a half to go.

Starved for PLA, even 210/65 didn't stick. Recommended 200/60 might even 
work, so cura gets cooled a few for the next slice. The Saintsmart 
manual even uses a 40C bed, but that pdf is 3 years old too.

The first thing I ever did was the waving cat. Outside walls might be a 
10% fill.  So it came OOTB totally fubar.

Oh, and as far as its being spring mounted, no, its solidly bolted to the 
X carriage at the top, I had it all apart just to change the nozzle as 
it was welded in by leakage past the threads and had to be heated above 
185C to get it loose with that toy wrench.

Thanks Chris.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Chris Albertson]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 10:18 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
> Yup.  And it was, feeding about 44mm for 100mm commanded.
>
> Sounds like a clogged nozzle or maybe just needs to be hotter.  Or maybe
the temperature sensor is uncalibrated.

Using less filament than commanded means it is slipping on the feed
rollers.  There is a pressure adjustment.  On my printer it is a screw with
a spring and you adjust it to control pressure on the rollers.But these
are the kinds of details that vary from one printer to the other.

If this is a mechanical issue you shouldn't try and compensate with a
software setting.

I'm lucky and never once even after printing many spools of plastic had
even one clogged nozzle.   Being so lucky means I have zero experience with
the problem.   But I'd think it is not easy to clear it as it would be
filled with hard plastic.


























-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 16 June 2020 20:21:03 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

> Still sounds like drastic under extruding. It's definitely a printer
> made for 1.75mm filament, not 3mm?

Yup.  And it was, feeding about 44mm for 100mm commanded.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Still sounds like drastic under extruding. It's definitely a printer made for 
1.75mm filament, not 3mm? 

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 2:32:27 PM MDT, Gene Heskett 
 wrote:  
 
 On Tuesday 16 June 2020 13:41:32 Bruce Layne wrote:

> On 6/16/20 10:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I've not been anyplace to get a glass plate yet. At my age & health,
> > I'm steering as clear of this damned virus as I can.
>
> Good plan.  Stay healthy.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Glass-Print-Borosilicate-Printer-235x235x3-7mm/
>dp/B07JKGNB6W
>
> Plenty of options on eBay when searching for "Ender 3 glass".

I see that, and all are quite pricy.

This next half a sprocket is about 30% complete and I can already see its 
at least 80% air, starving for plastic.  Whats the steps/mm for the 
extruders default on your printer? cura is set to 110% flow, and default 
extruder/mm is 94.50/mm at the printer.

Got to something wrong someplace

Cheers, Gene Heskett  
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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 at 00:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> this doesn't unless the temps are high enough to iron it down, 200C and a
> bump its all ripped loose, 225C and a bump is ironed down by the next
> pass.

You can set the initial layers to be extruded hotter than the later
ones. 225 sounds very hot for PLA. I tend to run 190.
-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 16 June 2020 18:58:44 Chris Albertson wrote:

> So what next, your milling machine gets to decide the cutting rate and
> how fast the spindle turns?
>
> Curra does in fact know exactly how the printer moves because you told
> it the maximum acceleration and even that you are using "Merlin"
> firmware. Cura is controlling the speeds of all four axis and even the
> fan speeds and both heaters.  Cura can assume the printer follows the
> g-code.
>
No I haven't told it, but I also haven't changed anything but the scale 
either.
>
> That controller car in the printer is very impressive compared to
> Linux CNC.  It is doing software stepper pulse generation at over
> 6,000 steps per second on four motors while also reading g-code and
> PID loops on the bed and nozzle temperature and running the user
> interface control   All that runs on an 8-bit processor with a 16 MHz
> clock speed.

Which explains why the displayed position is some seconds behind the 
printer. :)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 16 June 2020 18:37:28 Chris Albertson wrote:

> If the nozzle is too close to the bed no plastic at all will come put.
> Dragging on the bed will completely shut down the flow.  You likey
> don't get the full flow until there is about 0.1mm of clearance under
> the nozzle.
>
And thats a figure I can shoot at, my 22 lb printer stuff is about .08mm 
thick. I'll jack it back up and try again.
>
> The brass is pretty hard and it is also spring mounted so if forced
> into the build plate it is not damaged.  The spring and the 45 degree
> shape allows it to ride over bumps.

this doesn't unless the temps are high enough to iron it down, 200C and a 
bump its all ripped loose, 225C and a bump is ironed down by the next 
pass.  Pretty delicate balance. I'll change nozzles the next time its 
cooled down like Andy suggested. I have a bag of spares. Gotta figure 
out how to do it though, it has a si rubber cover I don't want to muck 
up.

Thanks Chris.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Chris Albertson]

So what next, your milling machine gets to decide the cutting rate and how
fast the spindle turns?

Curra does in fact know exactly how the printer moves because you told it
the maximum acceleration and even that you are using "Merlin" firmware.
Cura is controlling the speeds of all four axis and even the fan speeds and
both heaters.  Cura can assume the printer follows the g-code.


That controller car in the printer is very impressive compared to Linux
CNC.  It is doing software stepper pulse generation at over 6,000 steps per
second on four motors while also reading g-code and PID loops on the bed
and nozzle temperature and running the user interface control   All that
runs on an 8-bit processor with a 16 MHz clock speed.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 3:31 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 June 2020 17:07:30 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:32 PM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > On Tuesday 16 June 2020 13:41:32 Bruce Layne wrote:
> > > > On 6/16/20 10:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > > I've not been anyplace to get a glass plate yet. At my age &
> > > > > health, I'm steering as clear of this damned virus as I can.
> > > >
> > > > Good plan.  Stay healthy.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.amazon.com/Glass-Print-Borosilicate-Printer-235x235x3-
> > > >7mm/ dp/B07JKGNB6W
> > > >
> > > > Plenty of options on eBay when searching for "Ender 3 glass".
> > >
> > > I see that, and all are quite pricy.
> >
> > So that's why some people buy mirror tiles.  They cost only $1.70 each
> > at Home Depot but you have to cut them down yourself.
> >
> > > This next half a sprocket is about 30% complete and I can already
> > > see its at least 80% air, starving for plastic.
> >
> > 80% air is about correct if the infill is at 20%.   The interior of
> > most parts doesn't need to be solid.  In fact you'd get large and
> > uneven shrinkage it it was.  50% infill (or 50% air) is a good
> > compromise for structural parts that need to be strong.
> >
> > What is the "correct" extruder speed? Let's lay the layer height
> > is 0.1mm and the nozzle is 0.4 mm  The the cross-section of a wall is
> > 0.04 mm squared.  Then if the extruder draws a 1mm long line 0.04
> > cubic mm of plastic is needed.But the filament is 1.75mm diameter
> > and a 2.4 mm squared cross-section.
>
> But sq area is PI*(r*r).  Not d*d.
> So r is d/2 or 0.875*pi=2.75mm squared x section.
>
> > So the extruder needs to extrude 0.04/2.4 mm of filament per mm of
> > travel or 0.0166 mm filament per mm of line.   If moving at 100mm/sec
> > that is 1.6mm/sec of filament.
>
> Its not moving anywhere near that fast
>
> > Ifthe layer thickness is 0.2 mm then the extruer rate is dubled over
> > what is was for 0.1.   Bu the print speed is always changing so the
> > extruder speed has to constantly change too.
> >
> > There is another issue too. There is a volume of liquid plastic and so
> > a lag between when the extruder motor pushing in new cold filiment and
> > the hot liquid leaves the nozzle.  The larger the volume the more the
> > lag.
>
> And that will vary with both the temp and the speed.
>
> > Also some extruder place the rollers close are farther from the
> > hot end. In the ectream case some use a teflon tube ad place the
> > extruder stepper motor on the fixed frame.This makes the print
> > head very light in weight and can move much faster.But huge "lag"
> > time.
> >
> > So remember the quote from that famous hockey player "I don't skate to
> > the puck.  I skate to where to puck will be in a few seconds."  The
> > extruder has to anticipate the lag-time so it will not exactly follow
> > the nozzle speed but looks at where the nozzle will be in a few
> > milliseconds.
> >
> > These printers work because many people have invented hundreds of
> > rules of thumb and encoded all this into the slicer software.
>
> That IMO is the wrong place for it, its the dynamics of the printer so
> put that level of smarts into the driver sw.  But whats done is done, so
> we have to both outsmart it, but if cura hasn't a clue about the
> printers ballistics, we are screwed.
>
> > OK, bottom line, if you say "110%" you are just adding a 10% bump to
> > the rules the slicer uses.I would only do that if using undersize
> > filament or if the printer has 10 undersized rollers in the extruder.
> >But errors so large or unheard of.   2% or 3%  maybe at most.
> >
> > >   Whats the steps/mm for the
> > > extruders default on your printer? cura is set to 110% flow, and
> > > default extruder/mm is 94.50/mm at the printer.
>
> Which still doesn't answer the question.
>
> Thanks Chris.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> 

Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Chris Albertson]

If the nozzle is too close to the bed no plastic at all will come put.
Dragging on the bed will completely shut down the flow.  You likey don't
get the full flow until there is about 0.1mm of clearance under the nozzle.


The brass is pretty hard and it is also spring mounted so if forced into
the build plate it is not damaged.  The spring and the 45 degree shape
allows it to ride over bumps.

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 2:58 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 June 2020 17:05:23 andy pugh wrote:
>
>   Can a nozzle be damaged by dragging on the
> beds magnetic cover?
>
> --

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 16 June 2020 17:07:30 Chris Albertson wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:32 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 16 June 2020 13:41:32 Bruce Layne wrote:
> > > On 6/16/20 10:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > > I've not been anyplace to get a glass plate yet. At my age &
> > > > health, I'm steering as clear of this damned virus as I can.
> > >
> > > Good plan.  Stay healthy.
> > >
> > > https://www.amazon.com/Glass-Print-Borosilicate-Printer-235x235x3-
> > >7mm/ dp/B07JKGNB6W
> > >
> > > Plenty of options on eBay when searching for "Ender 3 glass".
> >
> > I see that, and all are quite pricy.
>
> So that's why some people buy mirror tiles.  They cost only $1.70 each
> at Home Depot but you have to cut them down yourself.
>
> > This next half a sprocket is about 30% complete and I can already
> > see its at least 80% air, starving for plastic.
>
> 80% air is about correct if the infill is at 20%.   The interior of
> most parts doesn't need to be solid.  In fact you'd get large and
> uneven shrinkage it it was.  50% infill (or 50% air) is a good
> compromise for structural parts that need to be strong.
>
> What is the "correct" extruder speed? Let's lay the layer height
> is 0.1mm and the nozzle is 0.4 mm  The the cross-section of a wall is
> 0.04 mm squared.  Then if the extruder draws a 1mm long line 0.04
> cubic mm of plastic is needed.But the filament is 1.75mm diameter
> and a 2.4 mm squared cross-section.

But sq area is PI*(r*r).  Not d*d.
So r is d/2 or 0.875*pi=2.75mm squared x section.

> So the extruder needs to extrude 0.04/2.4 mm of filament per mm of
> travel or 0.0166 mm filament per mm of line.   If moving at 100mm/sec
> that is 1.6mm/sec of filament.

Its not moving anywhere near that fast

> Ifthe layer thickness is 0.2 mm then the extruer rate is dubled over
> what is was for 0.1.   Bu the print speed is always changing so the
> extruder speed has to constantly change too.
>
> There is another issue too. There is a volume of liquid plastic and so
> a lag between when the extruder motor pushing in new cold filiment and
> the hot liquid leaves the nozzle.  The larger the volume the more the
> lag.

And that will vary with both the temp and the speed.

> Also some extruder place the rollers close are farther from the 
> hot end. In the ectream case some use a teflon tube ad place the
> extruder stepper motor on the fixed frame.This makes the print
> head very light in weight and can move much faster.But huge "lag"
> time.
>
> So remember the quote from that famous hockey player "I don't skate to
> the puck.  I skate to where to puck will be in a few seconds."  The
> extruder has to anticipate the lag-time so it will not exactly follow
> the nozzle speed but looks at where the nozzle will be in a few
> milliseconds.
>
> These printers work because many people have invented hundreds of
> rules of thumb and encoded all this into the slicer software.

That IMO is the wrong place for it, its the dynamics of the printer so 
put that level of smarts into the driver sw.  But whats done is done, so 
we have to both outsmart it, but if cura hasn't a clue about the 
printers ballistics, we are screwed.
 
> OK, bottom line, if you say "110%" you are just adding a 10% bump to
> the rules the slicer uses.I would only do that if using undersize
> filament or if the printer has 10 undersized rollers in the extruder. 
>But errors so large or unheard of.   2% or 3%  maybe at most.
>
> >   Whats the steps/mm for the
> > extruders default on your printer? cura is set to 110% flow, and
> > default extruder/mm is 94.50/mm at the printer.

Which still doesn't answer the question.

Thanks Chris.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 16 June 2020 17:05:23 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 21:32, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > This next half a sprocket is about 30% complete and I can already
> > see its at least 80% air, starving for plastic.
>
> Do you have any spare nozzles? I think I would try a swap just to see.

Yes, a 10 pack of them. I just picked up and measured some of what it 
ejected while heating to start this run. measure's around .12mm. 
Supposedly a.4 mm nozzle.  Can a nozzle be damaged by dragging on the 
beds magnetic cover?

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 22:58, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Yes, a 10 pack of them. I just picked up and measured some of what it
> ejected while heating to start this run. measure's around .12mm.

That might be normal, surface tension or similar effects.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Some guy on the internet had the same issue with a similar printer and wrote a 
blog post about it. See here:

https://letsprint3d.net/how-to-calibrate-the-extruder-steps-ender-3-5-cr-10/

> OK, bottom line, if you say "110%" you are just adding a 10% bump to the
> rules the slicer uses.I would only do that if using undersize filament
> or if the printer has 10 undersized rollers in the extruder. But errors
> so large or unheard of.   2% or 3%  maybe at most.
> 
> 
> 
>>  Whats the steps/mm for the
>> extruders default on your printer? cura is set to 110% flow, and default
>> extruder/mm is 94.50/mm at the printer.
>> 
>> Got to something wrong someplace
>> 


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Chris Albertson]

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 1:32 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 16 June 2020 13:41:32 Bruce Layne wrote:
>
> > On 6/16/20 10:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > I've not been anyplace to get a glass plate yet. At my age & health,
> > > I'm steering as clear of this damned virus as I can.
> >
> > Good plan.  Stay healthy.
> >
> > https://www.amazon.com/Glass-Print-Borosilicate-Printer-235x235x3-7mm/
> >dp/B07JKGNB6W
> >
> > Plenty of options on eBay when searching for "Ender 3 glass".
>
> I see that, and all are quite pricy.
>

So that's why some people buy mirror tiles.  They cost only $1.70 each at
Home Depot but you have to cut them down yourself.

>
> This next half a sprocket is about 30% complete and I can already see its
> at least 80% air, starving for plastic.


80% air is about correct if the infill is at 20%.   The interior of most
parts doesn't need to be solid.  In fact you'd get large and uneven
shrinkage it it was.  50% infill (or 50% air) is a good compromise for
structural parts that need to be strong.

What is the "correct" extruder speed? Let's lay the layer height is
0.1mm and the nozzle is 0.4 mm  The the cross-section of a wall is 0.04 mm
squared.  Then if the extruder draws a 1mm long line 0.04 cubic mm of
plastic is needed.But the filament is 1.75mm diameter and a 2.4 mm
squared cross-section.

So the extruder needs to extrude 0.04/2.4 mm of filament per mm of travel
or 0.0166 mm filament per mm of line.   If moving at 100mm/sec that is
1.6mm/sec of filament.

Ifthe layer thickness is 0.2 mm then the extruer rate is dubled over what
is was for 0.1.   Bu the print speed is always changing so the extruder
speed has to constantly change too.

There is another issue too. There is a volume of liquid plastic and so a
lag between when the extruder motor pushing in new cold filiment and the
hot liquid leaves the nozzle.  The larger the volume the more the lag.
Also some extruder place the rollers close are farther from the hot end.
In the ectream case some use a teflon tube ad place the extruder stepper
motor on the fixed frame.This makes the print head very light in
weight and can move much faster.But huge "lag" time.

So remember the quote from that famous hockey player "I don't skate to the
puck.  I skate to where to puck will be in a few seconds."  The extruder
has to anticipate the lag-time so it will not exactly follow the
nozzle speed but looks at where the nozzle will be in a few milliseconds.

These printers work because many people have invented hundreds of rules of
thumb and encoded all this into the slicer software.

OK, bottom line, if you say "110%" you are just adding a 10% bump to the
rules the slicer uses.I would only do that if using undersize filament
or if the printer has 10 undersized rollers in the extruder. But errors
so large or unheard of.   2% or 3%  maybe at most.



>   Whats the steps/mm for the
> extruders default on your printer? cura is set to 110% flow, and default
> extruder/mm is 94.50/mm at the printer.
>
> Got to something wrong someplace
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 21:32, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> This next half a sprocket is about 30% complete and I can already see its
> at least 80% air, starving for plastic.

Do you have any spare nozzles? I think I would try a swap just to see.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 16 June 2020 13:41:32 Bruce Layne wrote:

> On 6/16/20 10:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I've not been anyplace to get a glass plate yet. At my age & health,
> > I'm steering as clear of this damned virus as I can.
>
> Good plan.  Stay healthy.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Glass-Print-Borosilicate-Printer-235x235x3-7mm/
>dp/B07JKGNB6W
>
> Plenty of options on eBay when searching for "Ender 3 glass".

I see that, and all are quite pricy.

This next half a sprocket is about 30% complete and I can already see its 
at least 80% air, starving for plastic.  Whats the steps/mm for the 
extruders default on your printer? cura is set to 110% flow, and default 
extruder/mm is 94.50/mm at the printer.

Got to something wrong someplace

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Chris Albertson]

That myth about glass flowing as if liquid has been debunked.  It never was
true.Glass is very stable.  We can measure flatness using optical
interferomerty to about 1/20th of a wavelength of light and "flats" stay
flat to that level for as long as we have been making them.

Modern glass is flatter than the extruded rails of your printer but the
binder clips will hold it to whatever shape is the metal print bed and I
doubt the aluminum is flat at the 0.001 inch level.This is why people
recommend printing the first layers about 0.15 mm thick.  The top of that
layer is 100% alighned with the X and Y tracks, bumps roller wheel runout
and all.

You can go to the hardware store and have then cut a half down 220mm
squares of window glass for you or buy a $20 square borosilicate glass
panel on Amazon.  Some people cut down glass mirror tiles

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:07 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Monday 15 June 2020 19:24:25 Bruce Layne wrote:
>
> > If you're zeroing the nozzle .0005" above the bed and getting a
> > transparent first layer, there's a good chance the nozzle is too close
> > to dispense a bead of plastic, because that's exactly how it looks.
> > You should be able to use a slightly thicker shim to zero the nozzle
> > and fine tune the first layer height as a setting in the slicer.  That
> > way, the hardware settings remain standard and you can have different
> > slicer profiles for printing different materials if you should need
> > slight changes in first layer height, although the defaults should
> > work well if the hardware is dialed in properly.  If you're dragging
> > the nozzle too close to the bed and you're trying to fix that by
> > arbitrarily cranking up the extrusion rate, that's a recipe for a
> > clogged nozzle and those are no fun.  I'd recommend the process that
> > Andy described where you mark 120mm back on the filament, tell it to
> > dispense 100mm of filament, measure the filament to the mark and
> > adjust the extrusion rate until it dispenses 100mm and leaves 20mm
> > above the extruder.
> >
> > The plastic bed surfaces vary in their ability to accept a first layer
> > and the surface of the ones I've tried seem to be constantly wearing
> > out with every print so the print surface keeps changing and what
> > worked before no longer works.  Quality is doing the same thing every
> > time, and I never found that to be possible with a plastic print
> > surface.  The first thing I do with a new printer is preheat the bed
> > to 110C to soften the plastic sheet adhesive and peel off the plastic
> > sheet.  I now leave the adhesive on the table and use it to adhere a
> > sheet of borosilicate glass.  If not, then the glass can be held in
> > place with binder clips, but be careful not to crash a nozzle into a
> > binder clip.  The glass works great with the jumbo size Elmer's
> > X-treme glue stick, with PLA (bed temperature of 40C) or ABS (bed
> > temperature of 110C).  It takes only a few seconds to apply a thin
> > film of glue to the room temperature glass bed and cleanup requires
> > only water and a paper towel.  Prints stick great.  ABS pops off when
> > it cools.  If the PLA doesn't release enough when cool, a teaspoon of
> > water around the outside of the print will float the part off the bed
> > in a few minutes, and you'd be watering the glass bed anyway to clean
> > off the glue after every print.  If you are having trouble getting
> > prints to stick, or you need to use force to remove parts after
> > they've printed, then you're doing it wrong.  If you don't want to
> > order a borosilicate glass bed for your printer, you can get a sheet
> > of window glass or a mirror tile at your local home store. They'll
> > probably cut it to fit your printer.
> >
> > I've been doing production printing lately and I'm definitely not
> > messing around with problematic first layer adhesion.  Get it right
> > and it's easy peasey, and reliable enough that I'll start a print and
> > walk away while it's preheating.  When printing more than a few small
> > parts with little surface area, I use a thin raft because if just one
> > of those parts doesn't adhere, the entire array of parts is scrap.
> > The raft is good insurance.
> >
> > As Chris said, CAD is the way to 3D printing happiness.  To unlock the
> > power of 3D printing you need to be able to design your own simple
> > parts.  CAD isn't as difficult as it was.  It's a trick that even an
> > old dog like me can learn.  I write G code for my LinuxCNC machines by
> > hand, but that's not possible with 3D printing.  You need to be able
> > to generate an STL file to feed into the slicer program.
> >
> > On 6/15/20 6:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > On Monday 15 June 2020 16:10:41 Chris Albertson wrote:
> > >> Have you followed the link to the documents from Cura's "help" tab?
> > >> It is really excellent.
> > >> The help link takes you here:
> > >> https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/sections/360003548339-Ultima

Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Bruce Layne]

On 6/16/20 10:23 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

> I've not been anyplace to get a glass plate yet. At my age & health, I'm 
> steering as clear of this damned virus as I can.

Good plan.  Stay healthy.

https://www.amazon.com/Glass-Print-Borosilicate-Printer-235x235x3-7mm/dp/B07JKGNB6W

Plenty of options on eBay when searching for "Ender 3 glass".



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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 16 June 2020 08:59:07 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> > No one has yet relayed their extruder speed to me.  So I've no clue
> > whats really RIGHT.
>
> Where exactly are you setting the extruder speed, Gene?

from the printers own menu's.punch knob, scroll down to control, punch 
knob, scroll does to steps/mm, punch knob, scroll to axis to adjust, 
punch knob, scroll to change, punch knob backs out. There is a save 
settings at some point, if you've changed anything, so a save so its 
default.. This is how I am also calibrating the size of the 5x5 test 
file, about .05mm at a time now that I'm getting close.

> Most slicers, 
> including Cura, don’t allow direct control over the actual filament
> feed speed. This parameter is instead calculated by the slicer from
> material diameter, layer height, nozzle diameter, wall width, and
> perhaps other factors. Many of these are variables that change from
> one job to the next and even during the print.
>
> The way to “fill more” in Cura is to increase “Flow” under “Material.”
> Before you do that, check and see if your filament size matches what
> you are using. The most common size is 1.75mm. You set this in the
> preferences under Printers>Machine Settings>Extruder1

Correct, thats a cura thing, this is the printers own defaults I'm 
putzing with.

I made an improved nozzle duct yesterday, but its weave is so open I 
painted it with New Skin so the air actually goes where its pointed. 
which visibly sharpened up the teeth of an XL sprocket, but the improved 
cooling also loosed the bond between threads, so I need to adjust cura's 
temps up a bit. The sprocket looks lots better, but has loose threads in 
the internal walls.  And its roundness is much softer due to the poorer 
bonding between threads.

Adhesion is much better if the first layer is laid at 70C for build 
plate.  The improved air flow at the nozzle seems to indicate a need for 
a higher nozzle temp, but that is a cura setting and I'm haveing a hell 
of a time just finding the project saver, so I can go back, reload a 
project and make one change for effect. cura is not a friendly slicer, 
menu's come and go for no reason I can grok.

But I don't think I'm up to a full thread on the extruder yet. When I 
installed the first spool, I had to take out the exit guide, run it out 
an inch, thread it thru the guide and screw the guide back in, needs a 
funnel at the back entrance. Will be a repeat pita when I need to load 
another spool.  Works ok once threaded though.

I've not been anyplace to get a glass plate yet. At my age & health, I'm 
steering as clear of this damned virus as I can.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Thaddeus Waldner]

> No one has yet relayed their extruder speed to me.  So I've no clue whats 
> really RIGHT.

Where exactly are you setting the extruder speed, Gene? Most slicers, including 
Cura, don’t allow direct control over the actual filament feed speed. This 
parameter is instead calculated by the slicer from material diameter, layer 
height, nozzle diameter, wall width, and perhaps other factors. Many of these 
are variables that change from one job to the next and even during the print.

The way to “fill more” in Cura is to increase “Flow” under “Material.” Before 
you do that, check and see if your filament size matches what you are using. 
The most common size is 1.75mm. You set this in the preferences under 
Printers>Machine Settings>Extruder1

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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 15 June 2020 19:38:54 Chris Albertson wrote:

> I have to agree.  Adjust the nozzle hight to what is
> recommended(paper,

paper is way too high, no adhesion at all.

> not foil) then use the software to control the 
> actual height when printing. The nozzle should be about 1/4 to 1//3 of
> it'sdiameter above the bed.

The usual .4mm nozzle, and z for first layer seems to be about .22. And 
the transparency is air between the threads.  But my painted one 
actually made another thats easily 5x more accurately laid down, the 
head motion pattern is very plainly visible where previously it was 
pulling the thread loose and laying an almost random interthread 
pattern.  It still needs more push on the extruder, I'm up to 94.0/mm 
now.  It came OOTB at 92.34mm  So this is considerably better. I'll 
paint to fill up the air between threads on this one and put it on.

I ran the extruder up another half a .mm and started a half sprocket, 30 
XL teeth needing a big alu hub and flange for the other half.  Spit out 
some loose stuff that got ripped off, no adhesion. Ran each bed nut up 
one notch and restarted it. Stuck ok so it will run the rest of the 
night w/o my babysitting.  I think I need to take that gcode back to an 
editor and raise the beginning bed temp to around 70-75 for the first 
layer, along with about 215 for nozzle temp to get good adhesion.  And I 
just found that fan isn't running at 1/3rd ack the gui unless I give it 
a starter push.  10 cent fan if that much. Probably needs lubed.

> Is this a plastic bed?  Mine is bare aluminum and glue-stick works.   
> I am thinking of moving to glass.

Steel plate, plastic film cover, with a removable sheet of magnetic 
signage on top of that.  And the center is wearing smoother as I play.  
The putty knife's edge is going away so I'll need to touch it up soon on 
a wet rouge wheel, same one I use to sharpen hand plane blades, the wet 
rouge is very aggressive for a 12,000 grit stone. I also use that to 
sharpen jointer blades, a used one being my best extraction tool. Dead 
flat, lay it on the bed, let the magnet sheet grab it and it Just Works. 
Gillette leaves more whiskers than that does.

> What you want is exact repeatability and not have to fuss with things.
>
> The Ender3 is now the most common printer, I think.  People do
> reoutinly use it for all kinds of work.  Stay with defaults.  Maybe
> move 4C up ordown based on the brand of PLA.   But if you are moving
> far from what others do, something is wrong.

No one has yet relayed their extruder speed to me.  So I've no clue whats 
really RIGHT.

Thanks Chris.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Bruce Layne]

Modern window glass is cheap and usually flat enough for 3D printing. 
Mirrors need to be flatter to avoid reflective distortions and a pack of
12"X12" mirror wall tiles are a cheap optically flat surface.  I
recommended borosilicate glass because it's formulated to have a very
low coefficient of thermal expansion.  It's used in labware that can be
placed directly over a burner, and it's used in furnace doors that don't
break from thermal expansion over a very wide range of temperatures. 
The borosilicate sheets I get at McMaster-Carr are very flat.

Glass is a solid.  It's an amorphous solid.  There's no crystalline
lattice structure but it's definitely a solid, now, and a thousand years
from now.  It only flows as the glass transition temperature is
approached and a 3D printer won't get anywhere near that temperature.

Some people get a piece of glass that's frosted on one side so they can
3D print with reportedly better adhesion and a matte finish on the
frosted side and turn the glass over to get a glass smooth finish on the
bottom of their prints when printing on the smooth side.

I'm intrigued when I see videos where people pull their spring steel
sheet off the magnetic bed and flex it to pop the prints loose, but
these are covered in some polymer finish and there is some wear to the
surface.  They're replaceable parts, so I assume the adhesion gradually
decreases over time and the build plate is replaced when the prints
start failing.  I don't like processes like that.  Glass is forever,
unless you drop it and break it.  I leave mine on the printer so that's
not a problem.

This virtual community is great and there are many fabulous ideas
shared, but it's a shame we can't meet in meat space.  Chris or I, and
probably many others on this list, could have your 3D printing problems
sorted in no time.  Much is lost in my lengthy posts.  In the real
world, I could show you how easy it is to print on glass, and how
reliable the process is once it's dialed in and working.  I CAD my parts
in FreeCAD, slice the STL file in Simplify123, copy the file to the
microSD card (no root privileges required), plug the card into the
printer, put a thin film of glue on the glass where the part will be
printed and I select the file from the front panel menu to 3D print it. 
No gnashing of teeth.  No babysitting the printer.  No parts failing to
adhere to the print bed.  No parts stuck to the bed after printing. 
Just like it ought to be.

Again, if you need to apply violence when removing a part from the print
bed, the bed probably isn't level after that which will cause the next
print to fail.  Once the process starts downhill, it's a race to the
bottom after that.  If you truly grok how the process works, it's not
difficult to get the printer in its happy place and keep it there.





On 6/15/20 8:04 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> The glass idea seems like a good one, but is it flat enough?  Glass as 
> you should know isn't a solid, but a supercooled liquid and will flow 
> sorta by the same mechanism that lets a glacier move over time, often 
> being twice as thick at the bottom of a light as it is at the top after 
> hanging vertically for 100 years.  Or is that why you said borosilicate?  
> Its more stable?


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 01:29, andy pugh  wrote:

> It takes a lot more than 100 years for the effect to even be noticeable.
> (In fact there is some debate if it happens at all)

https://www.cmog.org/article/does-glass-flow

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 at 01:07, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Glass as
> you should know isn't a solid, but a supercooled liquid and will flow
> sorta by the same mechanism that lets a glacier move over time, often
> being twice as thick at the bottom of a light as it is at the top after
> hanging vertically for 100 years.

It takes a lot more than 100 years for the effect to even be noticeable.
(In fact there is some debate if it happens at all)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 15 June 2020 19:24:25 Bruce Layne wrote:

> If you're zeroing the nozzle .0005" above the bed and getting a
> transparent first layer, there's a good chance the nozzle is too close
> to dispense a bead of plastic, because that's exactly how it looks. 
> You should be able to use a slightly thicker shim to zero the nozzle
> and fine tune the first layer height as a setting in the slicer.  That
> way, the hardware settings remain standard and you can have different
> slicer profiles for printing different materials if you should need
> slight changes in first layer height, although the defaults should
> work well if the hardware is dialed in properly.  If you're dragging
> the nozzle too close to the bed and you're trying to fix that by
> arbitrarily cranking up the extrusion rate, that's a recipe for a
> clogged nozzle and those are no fun.  I'd recommend the process that
> Andy described where you mark 120mm back on the filament, tell it to
> dispense 100mm of filament, measure the filament to the mark and
> adjust the extrusion rate until it dispenses 100mm and leaves 20mm
> above the extruder.
>
> The plastic bed surfaces vary in their ability to accept a first layer
> and the surface of the ones I've tried seem to be constantly wearing
> out with every print so the print surface keeps changing and what
> worked before no longer works.  Quality is doing the same thing every
> time, and I never found that to be possible with a plastic print
> surface.  The first thing I do with a new printer is preheat the bed
> to 110C to soften the plastic sheet adhesive and peel off the plastic
> sheet.  I now leave the adhesive on the table and use it to adhere a
> sheet of borosilicate glass.  If not, then the glass can be held in
> place with binder clips, but be careful not to crash a nozzle into a
> binder clip.  The glass works great with the jumbo size Elmer's
> X-treme glue stick, with PLA (bed temperature of 40C) or ABS (bed
> temperature of 110C).  It takes only a few seconds to apply a thin
> film of glue to the room temperature glass bed and cleanup requires
> only water and a paper towel.  Prints stick great.  ABS pops off when
> it cools.  If the PLA doesn't release enough when cool, a teaspoon of
> water around the outside of the print will float the part off the bed
> in a few minutes, and you'd be watering the glass bed anyway to clean
> off the glue after every print.  If you are having trouble getting
> prints to stick, or you need to use force to remove parts after
> they've printed, then you're doing it wrong.  If you don't want to
> order a borosilicate glass bed for your printer, you can get a sheet
> of window glass or a mirror tile at your local home store. They'll
> probably cut it to fit your printer.
>
> I've been doing production printing lately and I'm definitely not
> messing around with problematic first layer adhesion.  Get it right
> and it's easy peasey, and reliable enough that I'll start a print and
> walk away while it's preheating.  When printing more than a few small
> parts with little surface area, I use a thin raft because if just one
> of those parts doesn't adhere, the entire array of parts is scrap. 
> The raft is good insurance.
>
> As Chris said, CAD is the way to 3D printing happiness.  To unlock the
> power of 3D printing you need to be able to design your own simple
> parts.  CAD isn't as difficult as it was.  It's a trick that even an
> old dog like me can learn.  I write G code for my LinuxCNC machines by
> hand, but that's not possible with 3D printing.  You need to be able
> to generate an STL file to feed into the slicer program.
>
> On 6/15/20 6:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 15 June 2020 16:10:41 Chris Albertson wrote:
> >> Have you followed the link to the documents from Cura's "help" tab?
> >> It is really excellent.
> >> The help link takes you here:
> >> https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/sections/360003548339-Ultima
> >>ker -Cura Every printer setting is explained with examples showing
> >> parts made with and without the settings enables.
> >>
> >> I don't think anyone is using printable PDF files for docs anymore
> >> because PDF is so hard to read on different sized screens.  They
> >> use formats that reflow and allow different font sizes.
> >
> > Thats html, and a right pain in the rear orifice to get right both
> > on screen and on paper. Additive colors that look great on screen
> > are poorly translated to the printers subtractive color palates so
> > you do not end up with an easily readable document in hand very
> > often.  Perhaps my blood is contaminated with printers ink, as a
> > young teen 70+ years ago I hung around the local print job shop who
> > had both a darkroom and a Heidelburg windmill job press and I KNOW
> > what quality color printing can look like. We are not getting it
> > today from a printer I can afford.
> >
> > Anyway, change subject, to see thru prints because the 3d isn't
> > using enough string. 

Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Chris Albertson]

I have to agree.  Adjust the nozzle hight to what is recommended(paper, not
foil) then use the software to control the actual height when printing.
The nozzle should be about 1/4 to 1//3 of it'sdiameter above the bed.

Is this a plastic bed?  Mine is bare aluminum and glue-stick works.I am
thinking of moving to glass.

What you want is exact repeatability and not have to fuss with things.

The Ender3 is now the most common printer, I think.  People do
reoutinly use it for all kinds of work.  Stay with defaults.  Maybe move 4C
up ordown based on the brand of PLA.   But if you are moving far from what
others do, something is wrong.



On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 4:27 PM Bruce Layne 
wrote:

> If you're zeroing the nozzle .0005" above the bed and getting a
> transparent first layer, there's a good chance the nozzle is too close
> to dispense a bead of plastic, because that's exactly how it looks.  You
> should be able to use a slightly thicker shim to zero the nozzle and
> fine tune the first layer height as a setting in the slicer.  That way,
> the hardware settings remain standard and you can have different slicer
> profiles for printing different materials if you should need slight
> changes in first layer height, although the defaults should work well if
> the hardware is dialed in properly.  If you're dragging the nozzle too
> close to the bed and you're trying to fix that by arbitrarily cranking
> up the extrusion rate, that's a recipe for a clogged nozzle and those
> are no fun.  I'd recommend the process that Andy described where you
> mark 120mm back on the filament, tell it to dispense 100mm of filament,
> measure the filament to the mark and adjust the extrusion rate until it
> dispenses 100mm and leaves 20mm above the extruder.
>
> The plastic bed surfaces vary in their ability to accept a first layer
> and the surface of the ones I've tried seem to be constantly wearing out
> with every print so the print surface keeps changing and what worked
> before no longer works.  Quality is doing the same thing every time, and
> I never found that to be possible with a plastic print surface.  The
> first thing I do with a new printer is preheat the bed to 110C to soften
> the plastic sheet adhesive and peel off the plastic sheet.  I now leave
> the adhesive on the table and use it to adhere a sheet of borosilicate
> glass.  If not, then the glass can be held in place with binder clips,
> but be careful not to crash a nozzle into a binder clip.  The glass
> works great with the jumbo size Elmer's X-treme glue stick, with PLA
> (bed temperature of 40C) or ABS (bed temperature of 110C).  It takes
> only a few seconds to apply a thin film of glue to the room temperature
> glass bed and cleanup requires only water and a paper towel.  Prints
> stick great.  ABS pops off when it cools.  If the PLA doesn't release
> enough when cool, a teaspoon of water around the outside of the print
> will float the part off the bed in a few minutes, and you'd be watering
> the glass bed anyway to clean off the glue after every print.  If you
> are having trouble getting prints to stick, or you need to use force to
> remove parts after they've printed, then you're doing it wrong.  If you
> don't want to order a borosilicate glass bed for your printer, you can
> get a sheet of window glass or a mirror tile at your local home store.
> They'll probably cut it to fit your printer.
>
> I've been doing production printing lately and I'm definitely not
> messing around with problematic first layer adhesion.  Get it right and
> it's easy peasey, and reliable enough that I'll start a print and walk
> away while it's preheating.  When printing more than a few small parts
> with little surface area, I use a thin raft because if just one of those
> parts doesn't adhere, the entire array of parts is scrap.  The raft is
> good insurance.
>
> As Chris said, CAD is the way to 3D printing happiness.  To unlock the
> power of 3D printing you need to be able to design your own simple
> parts.  CAD isn't as difficult as it was.  It's a trick that even an old
> dog like me can learn.  I write G code for my LinuxCNC machines by hand,
> but that's not possible with 3D printing.  You need to be able to
> generate an STL file to feed into the slicer program.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 6/15/20 6:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Monday 15 June 2020 16:10:41 Chris Albertson wrote:
> >
> >> Have you followed the link to the documents from Cura's "help" tab?
> >> It is really excellent.
> >> The help link takes you here:
> >> https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/sections/360003548339-Ultimaker
> >> -Cura Every printer setting is explained with examples showing parts
> >> made with and without the settings enables.
> >>
> >> I don't think anyone is using printable PDF files for docs anymore
> >> because PDF is so hard to read on different sized screens.  They use
> >> formats that reflow and allow different font sizes.
> >>
> > Thats html, and a right pain in the 

Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Bruce Layne]

If you're zeroing the nozzle .0005" above the bed and getting a
transparent first layer, there's a good chance the nozzle is too close
to dispense a bead of plastic, because that's exactly how it looks.  You
should be able to use a slightly thicker shim to zero the nozzle and
fine tune the first layer height as a setting in the slicer.  That way,
the hardware settings remain standard and you can have different slicer
profiles for printing different materials if you should need slight
changes in first layer height, although the defaults should work well if
the hardware is dialed in properly.  If you're dragging the nozzle too
close to the bed and you're trying to fix that by arbitrarily cranking
up the extrusion rate, that's a recipe for a clogged nozzle and those
are no fun.  I'd recommend the process that Andy described where you
mark 120mm back on the filament, tell it to dispense 100mm of filament,
measure the filament to the mark and adjust the extrusion rate until it
dispenses 100mm and leaves 20mm above the extruder.

The plastic bed surfaces vary in their ability to accept a first layer
and the surface of the ones I've tried seem to be constantly wearing out
with every print so the print surface keeps changing and what worked
before no longer works.  Quality is doing the same thing every time, and
I never found that to be possible with a plastic print surface.  The
first thing I do with a new printer is preheat the bed to 110C to soften
the plastic sheet adhesive and peel off the plastic sheet.  I now leave
the adhesive on the table and use it to adhere a sheet of borosilicate
glass.  If not, then the glass can be held in place with binder clips,
but be careful not to crash a nozzle into a binder clip.  The glass
works great with the jumbo size Elmer's X-treme glue stick, with PLA
(bed temperature of 40C) or ABS (bed temperature of 110C).  It takes
only a few seconds to apply a thin film of glue to the room temperature
glass bed and cleanup requires only water and a paper towel.  Prints
stick great.  ABS pops off when it cools.  If the PLA doesn't release
enough when cool, a teaspoon of water around the outside of the print
will float the part off the bed in a few minutes, and you'd be watering
the glass bed anyway to clean off the glue after every print.  If you
are having trouble getting prints to stick, or you need to use force to
remove parts after they've printed, then you're doing it wrong.  If you
don't want to order a borosilicate glass bed for your printer, you can
get a sheet of window glass or a mirror tile at your local home store. 
They'll probably cut it to fit your printer.

I've been doing production printing lately and I'm definitely not
messing around with problematic first layer adhesion.  Get it right and
it's easy peasey, and reliable enough that I'll start a print and walk
away while it's preheating.  When printing more than a few small parts
with little surface area, I use a thin raft because if just one of those
parts doesn't adhere, the entire array of parts is scrap.  The raft is
good insurance.

As Chris said, CAD is the way to 3D printing happiness.  To unlock the
power of 3D printing you need to be able to design your own simple
parts.  CAD isn't as difficult as it was.  It's a trick that even an old
dog like me can learn.  I write G code for my LinuxCNC machines by hand,
but that's not possible with 3D printing.  You need to be able to
generate an STL file to feed into the slicer program.





On 6/15/20 6:46 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Monday 15 June 2020 16:10:41 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
>> Have you followed the link to the documents from Cura's "help" tab?  
>> It is really excellent.
>> The help link takes you here:
>> https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/sections/360003548339-Ultimaker
>> -Cura Every printer setting is explained with examples showing parts
>> made with and without the settings enables.
>>
>> I don't think anyone is using printable PDF files for docs anymore
>> because PDF is so hard to read on different sized screens.  They use
>> formats that reflow and allow different font sizes.
>>
> Thats html, and a right pain in the rear orifice to get right both on 
> screen and on paper. Additive colors that look great on screen are 
> poorly translated to the printers subtractive color palates so you do 
> not end up with an easily readable document in hand very often.  Perhaps 
> my blood is contaminated with printers ink, as a young teen 70+ years 
> ago I hung around the local print job shop who had both a darkroom and a 
> Heidelburg windmill job press and I KNOW what quality color printing can 
> look like. We are not getting it today from a printer I can afford.
>
> Anyway, change subject, to see thru prints because the 3d isn't using 
> enough string. Its getting better as I raise the extruder steps/mm. Im 
> now making the third of those fan duct attachments, but this time the 
> bed was zeroed on some .0005" alu foil.  And the extruder was 

Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 15 June 2020 16:10:41 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Have you followed the link to the documents from Cura's "help" tab?  
> It is really excellent.
> The help link takes you here:
> https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/sections/360003548339-Ultimaker
>-Cura Every printer setting is explained with examples showing parts
> made with and without the settings enables.
>
> I don't think anyone is using printable PDF files for docs anymore
> because PDF is so hard to read on different sized screens.  They use
> formats that reflow and allow different font sizes.
>
Thats html, and a right pain in the rear orifice to get right both on 
screen and on paper. Additive colors that look great on screen are 
poorly translated to the printers subtractive color palates so you do 
not end up with an easily readable document in hand very often.  Perhaps 
my blood is contaminated with printers ink, as a young teen 70+ years 
ago I hung around the local print job shop who had both a darkroom and a 
Heidelburg windmill job press and I KNOW what quality color printing can 
look like. We are not getting it today from a printer I can afford.

Anyway, change subject, to see thru prints because the 3d isn't using 
enough string. Its getting better as I raise the extruder steps/mm. Im 
now making the third of those fan duct attachments, but this time the 
bed was zeroed on some .0005" alu foil.  And the extruder was just set 
up another .15% faster. Poor print, poor supports and I can see thru it 
well enough to read todays newspaper.  Thats air leakage, probably 75% 
of it going someplace else besides the tip of the nozzle where it 
belongs. I may give up and give it a coat of paint to seal it up yet.

But this close to the bed, it sticks really well, and I may rip the 
bottom plumb out of it, we'll see in about 20 minutes.

Thanks Chris.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Chris Albertson]

Have you followed the link to the documents from Cura's "help" tab?   It is
really excellent.
The help link takes you here:
https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/sections/360003548339-Ultimaker-Cura
Every printer setting is explained with examples showing parts made with
and without the settings enables.

I don't think anyone is using printable PDF files for docs anymore because
PDF is so hard to read on different sized screens.  They use formats that
reflow and allow different font sizes.


On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 4:47 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Monday 15 June 2020 02:25:38 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > I don't know if any of the printed parts on my printer will fit an
> > Ender3. But printer upgrades are the first things many people print.
> > Electronics enclosures, tool trays and improved airflow are easy but
> > very specific to an exact model of printer.
> >
> > There are upgrades too.  Like a probe for measuring the bed height and
> > auto-level software. Those are harder to get working.   One gadget I
> > want but have not made is a holder to attach a dial indicator to the
> > print head.  I've not seen one so some day I'll design one myself.
> >
> > The place to look is "Thingiverse".
> >
> > Here are any number of Ender 3 fan nozzles, some good, some bad.
> > https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=ender+3+fan=things=rele
> >vant
> >
> I pulled the ender3 nozzle .zip.
>
> One thing I'd love tough, would be a manual I could print that actually
> references the software I have.  Docs have not kept pace with the sw,
> particularly on linux where I'm reading the pdf's supplied on its sd
> card.  The cura doc on the sd card is for a 2017 version, but bears a
> current date.  Thats BS when the menu's quite often bear zero
> resemblance to the printable pdf's showings.  I press the designated
> buttons but don't seem to get the effect, so I get lost and restart it,
> and it runs differently everytime I start it. Why is there 2 copies of
> the appimage? Both appear to run alike.  For instance, I just did a new
> slice on the 5mm calibration .stl, but I can't save it to the
> removable /media/sdf1 card without first saving it someplace where I
> have write perms, then launch a root chown and make it owned by root,
> then run a root session of mc to copy it to the sd card for transport to
> the printer for printing.  And once you've chosen someplace to save the
> file to, thats its default location for everything else and you then got
> to wade back thru 2 terabytes of file system to get back to your src
> file working directory.  Thats so fscked up I will yet learn how to run
> slic3r.
>
> Bad mood this morning, woof in the shop, might never come home. End stage
> COPD.  And I'm due at the local heart guy for a checkup on the stent
> they replaced a week ago today.  And from the way I'm feeling it could
> be working better.  The echolab girl said it was only doing 31%.
>
> > Thingiverse has a seach box so you can also just search for "ender 3"
> > and get dozens of pages of stuff.
>
> I see that, thanks.
>
> > Quality varies dramatically as
> > anyone can and does post stuff.
>
> I see that too. :)
>
>
> > Your best bet is to look at
> > Thingiverse and get ideas, down load a few and then use a CAD program
> > to improve the design. Make an account on Thingiverse and then you can
> > make lists of things to look at later
> >
> > There are also many electronics covers and cable protectors to fit the
> > Ender 3.   But they are specific to the printer.  I have an A6 that is
> > made of smoked Plexiglas, not metal like yours.   An enclosure is a
> > very good CAD project. You could design your own the way you like it.
> >
> > I use Fusion 360 but I'm studying OnShape.  OnShape runs well on the
> > Linux system because of the better Nvidia GTX1060 on the Linux system
> > vs the Intel HD6000 on the iMac.
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:27 PM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > Greetings Chris;
> > >
> > > While I'm waiting for digi-key to send me some more ATS-667's to fix
> > > my GO704's lack of index, I thought I'd waste a bit of string on the
> > > 3d printer, and see if I can get it to make a block thats 25mm wide
> > > for xy and and tall. I am also slowly advancing the steps per mm on
> > > the extruder, and have arrived at a condition where the base layer
> > > is both solid, and laid down stuck really tight with a starting temp
> > > set of 215 and 70, so I've just now increased the nozzle clearance
> > > by one bump of the wheels for the next run. Still quite tight onto a
> > > sheet of catalog paper.  But this past run got me a breakoff,
> > > leaving the 3 layer base still stuck, that was a hair over 25 tall
> > > but the breakoff 5 starter was still under 5.  That tells me I
> > > should lower the build plate which I have now done by one bump of
> > > all 4 wheels and reduce the z feed by a fraction of a percent.
> > >
> > > So how it this z tradeoff properly adjusted?
> > >
> > > I see on youtube, a 

Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 15 June 2020 07:29:24 andy pugh wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 at 05:27, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > I am also slowly advancing the steps per mm on the
> > extruder,
>
> The real way to calibrate that is to mark the filament 120mm from the
> extruder, extrude 100mm of filament, and see where the mark is
> relative to the extruder.
>
> I am sure that a Google search for "Ender 3 extruder calibration" will
> furnish a more detailed procedure.

I'll do that when I get back from the sawbones this morning.

Thanks Andy


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 15 June 2020 02:25:38 Chris Albertson wrote:

> I don't know if any of the printed parts on my printer will fit an
> Ender3. But printer upgrades are the first things many people print. 
> Electronics enclosures, tool trays and improved airflow are easy but
> very specific to an exact model of printer.
>
> There are upgrades too.  Like a probe for measuring the bed height and
> auto-level software. Those are harder to get working.   One gadget I
> want but have not made is a holder to attach a dial indicator to the
> print head.  I've not seen one so some day I'll design one myself.
>
> The place to look is "Thingiverse".
>
> Here are any number of Ender 3 fan nozzles, some good, some bad.
> https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=ender+3+fan=things=rele
>vant
>
I pulled the ender3 nozzle .zip.

One thing I'd love tough, would be a manual I could print that actually 
references the software I have.  Docs have not kept pace with the sw, 
particularly on linux where I'm reading the pdf's supplied on its sd 
card.  The cura doc on the sd card is for a 2017 version, but bears a 
current date.  Thats BS when the menu's quite often bear zero 
resemblance to the printable pdf's showings.  I press the designated 
buttons but don't seem to get the effect, so I get lost and restart it, 
and it runs differently everytime I start it. Why is there 2 copies of 
the appimage? Both appear to run alike.  For instance, I just did a new 
slice on the 5mm calibration .stl, but I can't save it to the 
removable /media/sdf1 card without first saving it someplace where I 
have write perms, then launch a root chown and make it owned by root, 
then run a root session of mc to copy it to the sd card for transport to 
the printer for printing.  And once you've chosen someplace to save the 
file to, thats its default location for everything else and you then got 
to wade back thru 2 terabytes of file system to get back to your src 
file working directory.  Thats so fscked up I will yet learn how to run 
slic3r.

Bad mood this morning, woof in the shop, might never come home. End stage 
COPD.  And I'm due at the local heart guy for a checkup on the stent 
they replaced a week ago today.  And from the way I'm feeling it could 
be working better.  The echolab girl said it was only doing 31%.

> Thingiverse has a seach box so you can also just search for "ender 3"
> and get dozens of pages of stuff.

I see that, thanks.

> Quality varies dramatically as 
> anyone can and does post stuff.

I see that too. :)


> Your best bet is to look at 
> Thingiverse and get ideas, down load a few and then use a CAD program
> to improve the design. Make an account on Thingiverse and then you can
> make lists of things to look at later
>
> There are also many electronics covers and cable protectors to fit the
> Ender 3.   But they are specific to the printer.  I have an A6 that is
> made of smoked Plexiglas, not metal like yours.   An enclosure is a
> very good CAD project. You could design your own the way you like it.
>
> I use Fusion 360 but I'm studying OnShape.  OnShape runs well on the
> Linux system because of the better Nvidia GTX1060 on the Linux system
> vs the Intel HD6000 on the iMac.
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:27 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Greetings Chris;
> >
> > While I'm waiting for digi-key to send me some more ATS-667's to fix
> > my GO704's lack of index, I thought I'd waste a bit of string on the
> > 3d printer, and see if I can get it to make a block thats 25mm wide
> > for xy and and tall. I am also slowly advancing the steps per mm on
> > the extruder, and have arrived at a condition where the base layer
> > is both solid, and laid down stuck really tight with a starting temp
> > set of 215 and 70, so I've just now increased the nozzle clearance
> > by one bump of the wheels for the next run. Still quite tight onto a
> > sheet of catalog paper.  But this past run got me a breakoff,
> > leaving the 3 layer base still stuck, that was a hair over 25 tall
> > but the breakoff 5 starter was still under 5.  That tells me I
> > should lower the build plate which I have now done by one bump of
> > all 4 wheels and reduce the z feed by a fraction of a percent.
> >
> > So how it this z tradeoff properly adjusted?
> >
> > I see on youtube, a fan nozzle that looks like an improvement by
> > redirecting the cooling fan airflow more directly at the base of the
> > nozzle.  Where can I dl the files to make this, and the tooltray and
> > the back cover for the control pcb?
> >
> > Thanks Chris.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > 

Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 at 05:27, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> I am also slowly advancing the steps per mm on the
> extruder,

The real way to calibrate that is to mark the filament 120mm from the
extruder, extrude 100mm of filament, and see where the mark is
relative to the extruder.

I am sure that a Google search for "Ender 3 extruder calibration" will
furnish a more detailed procedure.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Chris Albertson]

I don't know if any of the printed parts on my printer will fit an Ender3.
But printer upgrades are the first things many people print.  Electronics
enclosures, tool trays and improved airflow are easy but very specific to
an exact model of printer.

There are upgrades too.  Like a probe for measuring the bed height and
auto-level software. Those are harder to get working.   One gadget I want
but have not made is a holder to attach a dial indicator to the print
head.  I've not seen one so some day I'll design one myself.

The place to look is "Thingiverse".

Here are any number of Ender 3 fan nozzles, some good, some bad.
https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=ender+3+fan=things=relevant

Thingiverse has a seach box so you can also just search for "ender 3" and
get dozens of pages of stuff.   Quality varies dramatically as anyone can
and does post stuff.   Your best bet is to look at Thingiverse and get
ideas, down load a few and then use a CAD program to improve the design.
Make an account on Thingiverse and then you can make lists of things to
look at later

There are also many electronics covers and cable protectors to fit the
Ender 3.   But they are specific to the printer.  I have an A6 that is made
of smoked Plexiglas, not metal like yours.   An enclosure is a very good
CAD project. You could design your own the way you like it.

I use Fusion 360 but I'm studying OnShape.  OnShape runs well on the Linux
system because of the better Nvidia GTX1060 on the Linux system vs the
Intel HD6000 on the iMac.






On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 9:27 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings Chris;
>
> While I'm waiting for digi-key to send me some more ATS-667's to fix my
> GO704's lack of index, I thought I'd waste a bit of string on the 3d
> printer, and see if I can get it to make a block thats 25mm wide for xy
> and and tall. I am also slowly advancing the steps per mm on the
> extruder, and have arrived at a condition where the base layer is both
> solid, and laid down stuck really tight with a starting temp set of 215
> and 70, so I've just now increased the nozzle clearance by one bump of
> the wheels for the next run. Still quite tight onto a sheet of catalog
> paper.  But this past run got me a breakoff, leaving the 3 layer base
> still stuck, that was a hair over 25 tall but the breakoff 5 starter was
> still under 5.  That tells me I should lower the build plate which I
> have now done by one bump of all 4 wheels and reduce the z feed by a
> fraction of a percent.
>
> So how it this z tradeoff properly adjusted?
>
> I see on youtube, a fan nozzle that looks like an improvement by
> redirecting the cooling fan airflow more directly at the base of the
> nozzle.  Where can I dl the files to make this, and the tooltray and the
> back cover for the control pcb?
>
> Thanks Chris.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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[Emc-users] q for Chris on 5mm cal routine

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings Chris;

While I'm waiting for digi-key to send me some more ATS-667's to fix my 
GO704's lack of index, I thought I'd waste a bit of string on the 3d 
printer, and see if I can get it to make a block thats 25mm wide for xy 
and and tall. I am also slowly advancing the steps per mm on the 
extruder, and have arrived at a condition where the base layer is both 
solid, and laid down stuck really tight with a starting temp set of 215 
and 70, so I've just now increased the nozzle clearance by one bump of 
the wheels for the next run. Still quite tight onto a sheet of catalog 
paper.  But this past run got me a breakoff, leaving the 3 layer base 
still stuck, that was a hair over 25 tall but the breakoff 5 starter was 
still under 5.  That tells me I should lower the build plate which I 
have now done by one bump of all 4 wheels and reduce the z feed by a 
fraction of a percent.

So how it this z tradeoff properly adjusted?

I see on youtube, a fan nozzle that looks like an improvement by 
redirecting the cooling fan airflow more directly at the base of the 
nozzle.  Where can I dl the files to make this, and the tooltray and the 
back cover for the control pcb?

Thanks Chris.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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