Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Perhaps we should now change the subject line for this topic?

> -Original Message-
> From: Nicklas Karlsson [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-26-18 2:08 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC
> 
> > On Wed, 2018-07-25 at 18:49 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> > > On 25 July 2018 at 18:26, Valerio Bellizzomi 
wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm not a python programmer.
> > >
> > > Nobody is until they start.
> > >
> > > (Not a glib answer, I have taught myself both C and Python to work on
> LinuxCNC)
> > >
> >
> >
> > I don't think you want a program by an inexperienced programmer at first
> > start, the quality control work would be overwhelming.
> 
> I found the new software libraries for micro controllers peripherals are
rather
> complex to those I tend to write. But I am old and guess the new
> programmers are young.
> 
> The methods they use may make in a totally dynamic environment but
> neither software nor hardware is dynamic so I prefer to remove complexity.
> 
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> On Wed, 2018-07-25 at 18:49 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> > On 25 July 2018 at 18:26, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm not a python programmer.
> > 
> > Nobody is until they start.
> > 
> > (Not a glib answer, I have taught myself both C and Python to work on 
> > LinuxCNC)
> > 
> 
> 
> I don't think you want a program by an inexperienced programmer at first
> start, the quality control work would be overwhelming.

I found the new software libraries for micro controllers peripherals are rather 
complex to those I tend to write. But I am old and guess the new programmers 
are young.

The methods they use may make in a totally dynamic environment but neither 
software nor hardware is dynamic so I prefer to remove complexity.

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2018-07-25 at 18:49 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On 25 July 2018 at 18:26, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> 
> > I'm not a python programmer.
> 
> Nobody is until they start.
> 
> (Not a glib answer, I have taught myself both C and Python to work on 
> LinuxCNC)
> 


I don't think you want a program by an inexperienced programmer at first
start, the quality control work would be overwhelming.




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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[dave engvall]

On 07/24/2018 04:14 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On 24 July 2018 at 21:02, Sebastian Kuzminsky  wrote:


I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material.

More generally it is using the stock remaining from the previous
operations as the input to the current operation.
My CAD/CAM (Synergy, Weber Systems)  has a corner feature which allows 
one to just finish off the corners. However, that is not a cure-all. I 
can still manage to snap small end mills. I think the solution is to be 
able to set a max spindle power which then adjusts feed rate as the 
cutter loads up. Such a feature should help with chatter in corners as 
well as broken end mills. The difficult part is making the power sensor 
sensitive enough to preserve small end mills.


Continuing the sales pitch: it also has a roughing feature which allows 
one to take multiples passes offset from the final path to remove 
material. I don't use it very often as I find that the bandsaw or manual 
programming is more efficient unless the extraneous material is well 
balanced around the final shape.
There is a Windoze version which loses a few features but I run it on 
Linux. :-)


Dave

Dave

Dave






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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 25 July 2018 at 18:26, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:

> I'm not a python programmer.

Nobody is until they start.

(Not a glib answer, I have taught myself both C and Python to work on LinuxCNC)

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2018-07-25 at 08:36 -0600, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 7:46 AM Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 2018-07-25 at 14:03 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> > > On 25 July 2018 at 05:12, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have asked for the possibility to extend PyCAM to 5 axis but got no
> > > > response.
> > >
> > > Who did you ask?
> >
> > I asked the question in the IRC channel
> 
> If I remember right, sumpfralle and I both said we were not planning
> to work on that but that we would welcome a Pull Request if you wanted
> to work on it.
> 
> 


I'm not a python programmer.



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 7:46 AM Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2018-07-25 at 14:03 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> > On 25 July 2018 at 05:12, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> >
> > > I have asked for the possibility to extend PyCAM to 5 axis but got no
> > > response.
> >
> > Who did you ask?
>
> I asked the question in the IRC channel

If I remember right, sumpfralle and I both said we were not planning
to work on that but that we would welcome a Pull Request if you wanted
to work on it.


-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Wed, 2018-07-25 at 14:03 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On 25 July 2018 at 05:12, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> 
> > I have asked for the possibility to extend PyCAM to 5 axis but got no
> > response.
> 
> Who did you ask?
> 


I asked the question in the IRC channel



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 25 July 2018 at 05:12, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:

> I have asked for the possibility to extend PyCAM to 5 axis but got no
> response.

Who did you ask?

-- 
atp
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 25 July 2018 at 05:07, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:

> Well then, PyCAM has rough and fine operations.

I am not 100% sure that that is the same thing. For example previous
finish operations with a different cutter might leave large lumps of
finished surface above the height of the current operation.
Conventional algorithms for an operation that works on _different_
surfaces would either retract to a safe height or crash through these.
(the former is obviously to be preferred). Proper rest-machining can
weave a path between these on point-to-point moves.

This is much easier to do when the CAM is integrated to the CAD. in
effect the previous operations become "Cut" operations in CAD and the
resulting remnant is a true representation of the remaining stock.
Unless the CAM system also becomes a 3D CAD system which can operate
on solid bodies as well as interpret them this is hard to do properly.

-- 
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Lester Caine]

On 25/07/18 02:46, Jon Elson wrote:

I use Freecad version 16 on debian, I have designed a cnc machine with
it, but I do not use the included cam module which is at first stage I
think

I downloaded ver 0.17, which was only a couple days old when I got it.  
Probably I SHOULD have tried with ver 0.16   I will have to try that at 
home and see if I do better.


The one problem with FreeCAD is that is not a 'simple' drawing package. 
It's parametric modelling credentials seem to get in the way of doing 
quick drawings, and if one is used to the 'quick sketch' method of 
working switching styles is irritating. Having said that, I'm getting up 
to speed on using it and have several jobs machined now that have not 
needed anything outside FreeCAD to do. I'm used to a more 'manual' 
approach to selecting the tool sizes and roughing out before taking 
finer cuts ... simply because I don't have a tool changer ... and once 
one gets a handle on the PATH module it works well. It is work in 
progress and every time I look there seems to be a new button, but it 
certainly seems the people contributing understand machining. Even 
adding hand coded gcode is included ;)


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 17:45 -0700, Chris Albertson wrote:
> It is not clear if your method would work in the general case.  "rest"
> seems easy of doing a "waterline" type operate on a 3-axis mill.   But what
> about a 5-axis machine?
> 
> I think the best way to program a rest tool path is to first transform the
> part into a larger part thais is only roughed out.   You might do this by
> moving every surface out in the normal direction my some amount like 1mm.
> The you make that part using a roughing cutter.Then swap cutters and
> make the part as per the 3D model. I don't think you need simulation.
> But you do need to be able to move the surface out in the direction of the
> surface normals.
> 
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:24 PM Roland Jollivet 
> wrote:
> 
> > On 24 July 2018 at 22:02, Sebastian Kuzminsky 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:45 PM Valerio Bellizzomi 
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 21:27 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > > > > I had a quick look at PyCAM, and FreeCAD's Path Workbench.
> > > > >
> > > > > >From what I see, neither seem to do rest milling (rest machining),
> > > which is
> > > > > a limitation of most of the free packages and makes it pretty useless
> > > for
> > > > > multiple cutters unless you are extremely vigilant on what was not
> > cut.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or do they do rest milling?
> > > >
> > > > I have no idea of what it is, but there is a feature request:
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/SebKuzminsky/pycam/issues/120
> > >
> > > I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
> > > a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
> > > material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
> > > with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material. For
> > > example, think of a large pocket with sharp corners, roughed out with
> > > a large endmill and then finished with a small endmill.
> > >
> > > The feature request you linked above is different (and simpler): it's
> > > just to do "normal" machining operations on *select* features in the
> > > model, instead of applying the operations to *all* features of the
> > > model.
> > >
> >
> > Yes. When milling steel it's very easy to snap a 3mm cutter because the
> > previous 6mm cutter couldn't go into a dip, and the path is using the final
> > geometry as the reference model for the 3mm cutter.
> >
> > I've often wondered how hard it would be to program 'rest machining'
> > I think stl format is fine for most hobbyists, and offers a simpler way of
> > keeping track of a solid in software.
> >
> > A method I envisage is as follows;
> > Say operations are chosen as follows;
> > - first a 10mm roughing, then
> > - 3mm finishing with 0.2mm remaining, then
> > - 1mm final pass, 0mm remaining
> >
> > Once all the parameters are selected, the software creates a machining
> > model in Reverse...
> > First it takes the final .stl and adds on a 0.2mm layer, by computing
> > triangles according to the path of the 1mm cutter parameters, then
> > adds the 3mm passes, and so on until the full stock has been generated.
> > Obviously now these operations are run in reverse again to create a forward
> > Gcode file.
> >
> > Possible?


I have asked for the possibility to extend PyCAM to 5 axis but got no
response.

But I think it is possible.



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 14:02 -0600, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:45 PM Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> > On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 21:27 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > > I had a quick look at PyCAM, and FreeCAD's Path Workbench.
> > >
> > > >From what I see, neither seem to do rest milling (rest machining), which 
> > > >is
> > > a limitation of most of the free packages and makes it pretty useless for
> > > multiple cutters unless you are extremely vigilant on what was not cut.
> > >
> > > Or do they do rest milling?
> >
> > I have no idea of what it is, but there is a feature request:
> >
> > https://github.com/SebKuzminsky/pycam/issues/120
> 
> I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
> a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
> material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
> with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material. For
> example, think of a large pocket with sharp corners, roughed out with
> a large endmill and then finished with a small endmill.
> 
> The feature request you linked above is different (and simpler): it's
> just to do "normal" machining operations on *select* features in the
> model, instead of applying the operations to *all* features of the
> model.


Well then, PyCAM has rough and fine operations.



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

I'm not sure if this is what is meant by "rest"  but my AlibreCAM (Mecsoft
VisualCAM) lets me do this I think.

I've created a small part with some curves and recesses.  No point to it
other than I made it up as I went along using AlibreCAD. 

Then I started AlibreCAM and set up a roughing and finishing operation.  I
believe the roughing leaves a tiny bit not milled. I used the same toolbit
(6.35mm for both).
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Tray1-Roughing.jpg
The roughing cleans out the inside and outside of the block then the
finishing just cleans the edges.  For the roughing step down was 10% of tool
diameter so there are a lot of passes.  Probably should have done it with
25% to 50% for this example.
http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/Tray1-Finishing.jpg

Is this what is meant by "REST"?

Obviously I'd want to use a ball mill for the curved section in the center
and the fillets on the outside to get the best finish.  But the 3D finishing
pass only covers the edges.   This was all whipped out quickly and since I'm
way far from even close to knowing what I'm doing there may well be better
ways.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-24-18 5:45 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC
> 
> It is not clear if your method would work in the general case.  "rest"
> seems easy of doing a "waterline" type operate on a 3-axis mill.   But
what
> about a 5-axis machine?
> 
> I think the best way to program a rest tool path is to first transform the
> part into a larger part thais is only roughed out.   You might do this by
> moving every surface out in the normal direction my some amount like 1mm.
> The you make that part using a roughing cutter.Then swap cutters and
> make the part as per the 3D model. I don't think you need simulation.
> But you do need to be able to move the surface out in the direction of the
> surface normals.
> 
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:24 PM Roland Jollivet

> wrote:
> 
> > On 24 July 2018 at 22:02, Sebastian Kuzminsky 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:45 PM Valerio Bellizzomi

> > > wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 21:27 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > > > > I had a quick look at PyCAM, and FreeCAD's Path Workbench.
> > > > >
> > > > > >From what I see, neither seem to do rest milling (rest
machining),
> > > which is
> > > > > a limitation of most of the free packages and makes it pretty
useless
> > > for
> > > > > multiple cutters unless you are extremely vigilant on what was not
> > cut.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or do they do rest milling?
> > > >
> > > > I have no idea of what it is, but there is a feature request:
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/SebKuzminsky/pycam/issues/120
> > >
> > > I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
> > > a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
> > > material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
> > > with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material. For
> > > example, think of a large pocket with sharp corners, roughed out with
> > > a large endmill and then finished with a small endmill.
> > >
> > > The feature request you linked above is different (and simpler): it's
> > > just to do "normal" machining operations on *select* features in the
> > > model, instead of applying the operations to *all* features of the
> > > model.
> > >
> >
> > Yes. When milling steel it's very easy to snap a 3mm cutter because the
> > previous 6mm cutter couldn't go into a dip, and the path is using the
final
> > geometry as the reference model for the 3mm cutter.
> >
> > I've often wondered how hard it would be to program 'rest machining'
> > I think stl format is fine for most hobbyists, and offers a simpler way
of
> > keeping track of a solid in software.
> >
> > A method I envisage is as follows;
> > Say operations are chosen as follows;
> > - first a 10mm roughing, then
> > - 3mm finishing with 0.2mm remaining, then
> > - 1mm final pass, 0mm remaining
> >
> > Once all the parameters are selected, the software creates a machining
> > model in Reverse...
> > First it takes the final .stl and adds on a 0.2mm layer, by computing
> > triangles according to the path of the 1mm cutter parameters, then
> > adds the 3mm passes, and so on until the full stock has

Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Jon Elson]

On 07/24/2018 01:08 PM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 11:14 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

On 07/24/2018 07:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

I use FreeCAD and Blender for the modeling and PyCAM to
convert to gcode all on Debian

I'd like to hear more about this.  I tried the VERY latest
FreeCAD a couple months ago and it seemed to have some
problems.  So, we then went with Inventor (Autodesk).  That
works pretty well, but can be very complicated for an
occasional user.

I'm thinking maybe that I should not have tried the very
latest release of FreeCAD, and maybe let the new bugs get
fixed first.  So, what version are you using?  What source
of info did you find to learn to use it?

Thanks,

Jon

On which system are you having trouble?

I use Freecad version 16 on debian, I have designed a cnc machine with
it, but I do not use the included cam module which is at first stage I
think


I downloaded ver 0.17, which was only a couple days old when 
I got it.  Probably I SHOULD have tried with ver 0.16   I 
will have to try that at home and see if I do better.


Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC, Autodesk

[Jon Elson]

On 07/24/2018 11:39 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:

On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:14:50 -0500
Jon Elson  wrote:


On 07/24/2018 07:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:

I use FreeCAD and Blender for the modeling and PyCAM to
convert to gcode all on Debian

I'd like to hear more about this.  I tried the VERY latest
FreeCAD a couple months ago and it seemed to have some
problems.  So, we then went with Inventor (Autodesk).  That
works pretty well, ...

And i also expect it's rather expensive, or?



Work is a University, so they have a site license.

I have no idea what Inventor costs, but I can imagine it is 
expensive.  FreeCAD is clearly meant to be a drop-in 
replacement for Inventor, but I had problems with it.  I 
also have had a LOT of problems learning Inventor, it is 
plenty complicated.


Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Ken Strauss]

Moving each surface out by a certain amount is not very efficient for many
cases. Consider cutting a rectangular pocket having small radius corners.
The efficient approach would use a large cutter to clear most of the waste
and a small cutter for the corners. Your suggestion would require that the
entire perimeter be cut using a small cutter.

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:45 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC
>
> It is not clear if your method would work in the general case.  "rest"
> seems easy of doing a "waterline" type operate on a 3-axis mill.   But
what
> about a 5-axis machine?
>
> I think the best way to program a rest tool path is to first transform the
> part into a larger part thais is only roughed out.   You might do this by
> moving every surface out in the normal direction my some amount like 1mm.
> The you make that part using a roughing cutter.Then swap cutters and
> make the part as per the 3D model. I don't think you need simulation.
> But you do need to be able to move the surface out in the direction of the
> surface normals.
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:24 PM Roland Jollivet

> wrote:
>
> > On 24 July 2018 at 22:02, Sebastian Kuzminsky 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:45 PM Valerio Bellizzomi

> > > wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 21:27 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > > > > I had a quick look at PyCAM, and FreeCAD's Path Workbench.
> > > > >
> > > > > >From what I see, neither seem to do rest milling (rest
machining),
> > > which is
> > > > > a limitation of most of the free packages and makes it pretty
useless
> > > for
> > > > > multiple cutters unless you are extremely vigilant on what was not
> > cut.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or do they do rest milling?
> > > >
> > > > I have no idea of what it is, but there is a feature request:
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/SebKuzminsky/pycam/issues/120
> > >
> > > I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
> > > a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
> > > material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
> > > with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material. For
> > > example, think of a large pocket with sharp corners, roughed out with
> > > a large endmill and then finished with a small endmill.
> > >
> > > The feature request you linked above is different (and simpler): it's
> > > just to do "normal" machining operations on *select* features in the
> > > model, instead of applying the operations to *all* features of the
> > > model.
> > >
> >
> > Yes. When milling steel it's very easy to snap a 3mm cutter because the
> > previous 6mm cutter couldn't go into a dip, and the path is using the
final
> > geometry as the reference model for the 3mm cutter.
> >
> > I've often wondered how hard it would be to program 'rest machining'
> > I think stl format is fine for most hobbyists, and offers a simpler way
of
> > keeping track of a solid in software.
> >
> > A method I envisage is as follows;
> > Say operations are chosen as follows;
> > - first a 10mm roughing, then
> > - 3mm finishing with 0.2mm remaining, then
> > - 1mm final pass, 0mm remaining
> >
> > Once all the parameters are selected, the software creates a machining
> > model in Reverse...
> > First it takes the final .stl and adds on a 0.2mm layer, by computing
> > triangles according to the path of the 1mm cutter parameters, then
> > adds the 3mm passes, and so on until the full stock has been generated.
> > Obviously now these operations are run in reverse again to create a
forward
> > Gcode file.
> >
> > Possible?
> >
> >

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> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Chris Albertson]

It is not clear if your method would work in the general case.  "rest"
seems easy of doing a "waterline" type operate on a 3-axis mill.   But what
about a 5-axis machine?

I think the best way to program a rest tool path is to first transform the
part into a larger part thais is only roughed out.   You might do this by
moving every surface out in the normal direction my some amount like 1mm.
The you make that part using a roughing cutter.Then swap cutters and
make the part as per the 3D model. I don't think you need simulation.
But you do need to be able to move the surface out in the direction of the
surface normals.

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:24 PM Roland Jollivet 
wrote:

> On 24 July 2018 at 22:02, Sebastian Kuzminsky 
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:45 PM Valerio Bellizzomi 
> > wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 21:27 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > > > I had a quick look at PyCAM, and FreeCAD's Path Workbench.
> > > >
> > > > >From what I see, neither seem to do rest milling (rest machining),
> > which is
> > > > a limitation of most of the free packages and makes it pretty useless
> > for
> > > > multiple cutters unless you are extremely vigilant on what was not
> cut.
> > > >
> > > > Or do they do rest milling?
> > >
> > > I have no idea of what it is, but there is a feature request:
> > >
> > > https://github.com/SebKuzminsky/pycam/issues/120
> >
> > I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
> > a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
> > material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
> > with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material. For
> > example, think of a large pocket with sharp corners, roughed out with
> > a large endmill and then finished with a small endmill.
> >
> > The feature request you linked above is different (and simpler): it's
> > just to do "normal" machining operations on *select* features in the
> > model, instead of applying the operations to *all* features of the
> > model.
> >
>
> Yes. When milling steel it's very easy to snap a 3mm cutter because the
> previous 6mm cutter couldn't go into a dip, and the path is using the final
> geometry as the reference model for the 3mm cutter.
>
> I've often wondered how hard it would be to program 'rest machining'
> I think stl format is fine for most hobbyists, and offers a simpler way of
> keeping track of a solid in software.
>
> A method I envisage is as follows;
> Say operations are chosen as follows;
> - first a 10mm roughing, then
> - 3mm finishing with 0.2mm remaining, then
> - 1mm final pass, 0mm remaining
>
> Once all the parameters are selected, the software creates a machining
> model in Reverse...
> First it takes the final .stl and adds on a 0.2mm layer, by computing
> triangles according to the path of the 1mm cutter parameters, then
> adds the 3mm passes, and so on until the full stock has been generated.
> Obviously now these operations are run in reverse again to create a forward
> Gcode file.
>
> Possible?
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Ken Strauss]

FYI, Cut2d has a similar capability.

> -Original Message-
> From: Marcus Bowman [mailto:marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 5:24 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC
>
>
> On 24 Jul 2018, at 21:02, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>
> > I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
> > a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
> > material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
> > with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material. For
> > example, think of a large pocket with sharp corners, roughed out with
> > a large endmill and then finished with a small endmill.
> >
> This sounds like  what VCarve Pro does. It asks if you want to rough out
using a
> larger diameter cutter, then generates two programs via the
post-processor:
> one for the roughing operation (using the large tool), and the other for
the
> finishing (with a smaller tool for the fine detail). The user chooses and
specifies
> both tools before the software calculaltes the paths.
> It generally works ok, although I have run the odd job where there are
> artefacts left by the roughing cut which are not fully removed using the
smaller
> cutter.
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 24 July 2018 at 21:02, Sebastian Kuzminsky  wrote:

> I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
> a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
> material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
> with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material.

More generally it is using the stock remaining from the previous
operations as the input to the current operation.


-- 
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks.  I've heard good things about RhinoCAM too.  They also integrate
with MecSoft VisualCAM.
> >
> On The only Windows machine I ever will have.
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Marcus Bowman]

On 24 Jul 2018, at 21:02, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:

> I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
> a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
> material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
> with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material. For
> example, think of a large pocket with sharp corners, roughed out with
> a large endmill and then finished with a small endmill.
> 
This sounds like  what VCarve Pro does. It asks if you want to rough out using 
a larger diameter cutter, then generates two programs via the post-processor: 
one for the roughing operation (using the large tool), and the other for the 
finishing (with a smaller tool for the fine detail). The user chooses and 
specifies both tools before the software calculaltes the paths.
It generally works ok, although I have run the odd job where there are 
artefacts left by the roughing cut which are not fully removed using the 
smaller cutter.

Marcus



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Sven Wesley]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:26 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> And are you running on Windows, MAC or Linux for Rhino?
>
> > Glad to hear it is stable nowadays.  Gotta test it.
> > For all my work I only work in Rhino 3D  and
> all
> > CAM is made inside Rhino with the MadCam 
> > extension.
> > Been using that combo the last 6-8 years or something like that.
> > It is not for free, but the time I save with an efficient workflow is
> worth
> > every penny. And the price is still a fraction of my former SolidEdge
> > license...
> > Post to LinuxCNC exist, of course.
>
>
On The only Windows machine I ever will have.
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Martin Dobbins]

This is kind of OT the subject matter, but this person has an interesting setup 
(lathe only).   Briefly, a Mac mini running the design software (self written) 
which is networked to a headless cnc computer running on (I think) an atom, and 
it's all controlled from a home built pendant running on a micro controller


http://cornlathe.billooms.com/index.html


<http://cornlathe.billooms.com/index.html>Martin




From: John Dammeyer 
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 2:45 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

> I've been using Fusion 360 for a few years now. The license is
> $300/year. They have a post processor for linuxcnc so the CAM directly
> generates g-code that I can take out to the machine. As an example, I
> had to cut a couple of these from 303:
> <http://lakeweb.net/CNC/images/200-024.png

>
Hi Dan,
Sweet.  Are you running a MAC or PC with windows for Fusion?
John



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

And are you running on Windows, MAC or Linux for Rhino?

> Glad to hear it is stable nowadays.  Gotta test it.
> For all my work I only work in Rhino 3D  and all
> CAM is made inside Rhino with the MadCam 
> extension.
> Been using that combo the last 6-8 years or something like that.
> It is not for free, but the time I save with an efficient workflow is
worth
> every penny. And the price is still a fraction of my former SolidEdge
> license...
> Post to LinuxCNC exist, of course.


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Sven Wesley]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 9:07 PM Valerio Bellizzomi 
wrote:

> The version 0.16 is good, I did not find errors on debian again
> drawings can be exported to STL and given in input to PyCAM
>

Glad to hear it is stable nowadays.  Gotta test it.
For all my work I only work in Rhino 3D  and all
CAM is made inside Rhino with the MadCam  extension.
Been using that combo the last 6-8 years or something like that.
It is not for free, but the time I save with an efficient workflow is worth
every penny. And the price is still a fraction of my former SolidEdge
license...
Post to LinuxCNC exist, of course.
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 1:45 PM Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 21:27 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> > I had a quick look at PyCAM, and FreeCAD's Path Workbench.
> >
> > >From what I see, neither seem to do rest milling (rest machining), which is
> > a limitation of most of the free packages and makes it pretty useless for
> > multiple cutters unless you are extremely vigilant on what was not cut.
> >
> > Or do they do rest milling?
>
> I have no idea of what it is, but there is a feature request:
>
> https://github.com/SebKuzminsky/pycam/issues/120

I think "rest machining" refers to doing initial machining passes with
a large-diameter cutter, having the CAM keep track of the remaining
material that needs to be removed, and then doing finishing passes
with a smaller-diameter cutter to remove that remaining material. For
example, think of a large pocket with sharp corners, roughed out with
a large endmill and then finished with a small endmill.

The feature request you linked above is different (and simpler): it's
just to do "normal" machining operations on *select* features in the
model, instead of applying the operations to *all* features of the
model.

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 21:27 +0200, Roland Jollivet wrote:
> On 24 July 2018 at 21:04, Valerio Bellizzomi  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 19:47 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> > > On 24 July 2018 at 19:19, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > >
> > > > What version is it up to now? Ack the git pages it still at 0.17, and
> > > > thats much of a decade old.
> > >
> > > https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/Download
> > >
> > > "The first 0.17 release of FreeCAD (0.17.13509) was published 2018-04-06"
> > >
> > > Which seems unlikely to be true :-)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > The version 0.16 is good, I did not find errors on debian again
> >
> > drawings can be exported to STL and given in input to PyCAM
> >
> >
> I had a quick look at PyCAM, and FreeCAD's Path Workbench.
> 
> >From what I see, neither seem to do rest milling (rest machining), which is
> a limitation of most of the free packages and makes it pretty useless for
> multiple cutters unless you are extremely vigilant on what was not cut.
> 
> Or do they do rest milling?


I have no idea of what it is, but there is a feature request:

https://github.com/SebKuzminsky/pycam/issues/120




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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

> I've been using Fusion 360 for a few years now. The license is
> $300/year. They have a post processor for linuxcnc so the CAM directly
> generates g-code that I can take out to the machine. As an example, I
> had to cut a couple of these from 303:
> 
Hi Dan,
Sweet.  Are you running a MAC or PC with windows for Fusion?
John



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 19:47 +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> On 24 July 2018 at 19:19, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> > What version is it up to now? Ack the git pages it still at 0.17, and
> > thats much of a decade old.
> 
> https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/Download
> 
> "The first 0.17 release of FreeCAD (0.17.13509) was published 2018-04-06"
> 
> Which seems unlikely to be true :-)
> 
> 


The version 0.16 is good, I did not find errors on debian again

drawings can be exported to STL and given in input to PyCAM



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> On 24 July 2018 at 19:19, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> > What version is it up to now? Ack the git pages it still at 0.17, and
> > thats much of a decade old.
> 
> https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/Download
> 
> "The first 0.17 release of FreeCAD (0.17.13509) was published 2018-04-06"
> 
> Which seems unlikely to be true :-)

Why?

I have 0.16

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> > > I think its abandonware Jon, the latest version hasn't moved in
> > > about 5 years.
> >
> > Last commit 3 hours ago.
> >
> > https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD
> 
> Humm, His old site doesn't note its been moved to github.
> 
> What version is it up to now? Ack the git pages it still at 0.17, and 
> thats much of a decade old. 7 years ago it was moved I'd guess and it 
> was carrying the 0.17 version before then. I dunno.

I guess bougth software is a lot better and features expected is missing but 
then it come to 3D CAD price migth be an issue and the most important is there.

I get the feeling improvements have slowed down and basic ideas have stayed the 
same for many years. The computers I have today I had for quite many years and 
this did not happen then I was younger. Do you think there are a lot of 
development for cars? Four wheels, steering wheel, steering wheel in the front, 
average fuel consumption have increased, after the second world war Germany 
built small cars while USA built large cars but they have converged to some 
degree. There some "useful" development left for self driving cars, then they 
become good enough it's possible to get drunk and use car to get home without 
getting cought by police. 3D printer might be another case.


Nicklas Karlsson

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 24 July 2018 at 19:19, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> What version is it up to now? Ack the git pages it still at 0.17, and
> thats much of a decade old.

https://www.freecadweb.org/wiki/Download

"The first 0.17 release of FreeCAD (0.17.13509) was published 2018-04-06"

Which seems unlikely to be true :-)


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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 July 2018 14:06:46 andy pugh wrote:

> On 24 July 2018 at 18:39, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> (FreeCAD)
>
> > I think its abandonware Jon, the latest version hasn't moved in
> > about 5 years.
>
> Last commit 3 hours ago.
>
> https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD

Humm, His old site doesn't note its been moved to github.

What version is it up to now? Ack the git pages it still at 0.17, and 
thats much of a decade old. 7 years ago it was moved I'd guess and it 
was carrying the 0.17 version before then. I dunno.

-- 
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-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 11:14 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
> On 07/24/2018 07:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > I use FreeCAD and Blender for the modeling and PyCAM to 
> > convert to gcode all on Debian
> I'd like to hear more about this.  I tried the VERY latest 
> FreeCAD a couple months ago and it seemed to have some 
> problems.  So, we then went with Inventor (Autodesk).  That 
> works pretty well, but can be very complicated for an 
> occasional user.
> 
> I'm thinking maybe that I should not have tried the very 
> latest release of FreeCAD, and maybe let the new bugs get 
> fixed first.  So, what version are you using?  What source 
> of info did you find to learn to use it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jon

On which system are you having trouble?

I use Freecad version 16 on debian, I have designed a cnc machine with
it, but I do not use the included cam module which is at first stage I
think

PyCAM on debian can do everything at transforming models into gcode for
3 axis machining




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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 24 July 2018 at 18:39, Gene Heskett  wrote:

(FreeCAD)

> I think its abandonware Jon, the latest version hasn't moved in about 5
> years.

Last commit 3 hours ago.

https://github.com/FreeCAD/FreeCAD


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 July 2018 12:14:50 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 07/24/2018 07:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > I use FreeCAD and Blender for the modeling and PyCAM to
> > convert to gcode all on Debian
>
> I'd like to hear more about this.  I tried the VERY latest
> FreeCAD a couple months ago and it seemed to have some
> problems.  So, we then went with Inventor (Autodesk).  That
> works pretty well, but can be very complicated for an
> occasional user.
>
> I'm thinking maybe that I should not have tried the very
> latest release of FreeCAD, and maybe let the new bugs get
> fixed first.  So, what version are you using?  What source
> of info did you find to learn to use it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jon
>
I think its abandonware Jon, the latest version hasn't moved in about 5 
years. He (Dan Heeks) had an earlier project (Heekscad) that could 
export gcode, but that code never got pulled into freecad. Dan Heeks I 
expect had to go do something that bought groceries. And neither of 
those projects ever made him any money. TANSTAAFL applies always.

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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Chris Albertson]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 9:12 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 24 July 2018 08:21:18 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On 24 July 2018 at 07:53, Marcus Bowman
> >
> >  wrote:
> > > I used to think I would need manual knobs as well as the computer
> > > control of the machine, but in 15 years or so, I have never had the
> > > need.
> >
> > Me too. I kept the manual knobs on my first conversion, and never used
> > them. Then I retained the option on the current mill, and have never
> > used them, and then I learned my lesson and didn't bother on the lathe
> > conversion. But the lathe does have two MPGs on the saddle for those
> > super-simple "Just need a groove turned" jobs.
>
> Chuckle, and precisely why theres a couple dial encoders on the new apron
> of the sheldon. I'd put some on The Little Monster too but where? No
> room on that teeny apron, and I'm out of i/o until I fit another box and
> breakout board anyway.


Where?  On a hand held device, best if it can be wireless.An $80
Android tablet could work and you would not have to build any hardware but
you might prefer physical controls and buttons in that case then, a small
box but in any case put the controls some place other then on the machine.
-- 

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Dan Bloomquist]

John Dammeyer wrote:

Hi Chris,
So to summarize your reply.
When you draw using a PC rather than the back of an envelope you use Windows
and Fusion360.
For CAM the Fusion360 generated STL files can be changed to G-Code by Cura
or Repetier for your 3D printer.
For CAM and LinuxCNC (I'm assuming since you are on this list you use
LinuxCNC) does Fusion360 generate the G-Code?  Or is there something else
inbetween.

Hi John,
My two cents.

I've been using Fusion 360 for a few years now. The license is 
$300/year. They have a post processor for linuxcnc so the CAM directly 
generates g-code that I can take out to the machine. As an example, I 
had to cut a couple of these from 303:



I don't have a lot of experience with other products, but I think the 
CAD is very powerful. Using constraints to place sketch objects make 
development go very fast. And, it works for articulated projects really 
well.



Anyway, I'm happy with it. I've fabbed dozens of things so far. A couple 
of times I've had to import solidworks CAD and CAM from there. So that 
works too. The only CAM I've yet to test is Mach3, my son has a plasma 
table running it. When we built the table I tried to talk him into 
linxucnc. Now that he sees how well my mill runs on linuxcnc, he is 
sold. But Fusion 360 will export 2Ds to dxf when I want to cut something 
on his table. The day will come when I'll test it from the sheet metal 
workspace of Fusion 360.


Best, Dan.


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC, Autodesk

[Chris Albertson]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 9:39 AM Nicklas Karlsson <
nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:14:50 -0500
> Jon Elson  wrote:
>
> > On 07/24/2018 07:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > > I use FreeCAD and Blender for the modeling and PyCAM to
> > > convert to gcode all on Debian
> > I'd like to hear more about this.  I tried the VERY latest
> > FreeCAD a couple months ago and it seemed to have some
> > problems.  So, we then went with Inventor (Autodesk).  That
> > works pretty well, ...
>
> And i also expect it's rather expensive, or?
>

Yes, Inventor is  little bit expensive but it all depends of is this is a
hobby of a business.   CNC Milling machines can be VERY expensive, so
expensive that the cost of software like Inventor in "in the noise".  You
don't need to be big shop before the cost of this software fall to under 1%
of your budget.  I looked up the cost of Inventor.  It is $2,000 per year.

For a low-end users, not making money or not making much money Fusion is
very much like Invetor and can be free

But I imagine there are many unlicensed Inventor users, using bootleg
copies.There was a time, years ago when Autodesk's "AutoCAD" was the
single most pirated software.   Autodesk got smart and realized that they
because a billion dollar international company not in spite of software
piracy but BECAUSE of it.   The availability of free AutoCAD cause AutoCAD
to become s kind of industry standard.



>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC, Autodesk

[Nicklas Karlsson]

On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 11:14:50 -0500
Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 07/24/2018 07:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
> > I use FreeCAD and Blender for the modeling and PyCAM to 
> > convert to gcode all on Debian
> I'd like to hear more about this.  I tried the VERY latest 
> FreeCAD a couple months ago and it seemed to have some 
> problems.  So, we then went with Inventor (Autodesk).  That 
> works pretty well, ...

And i also expect it's rather expensive, or?

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

I detest using knobs or up/down buttons to enter numbers.  Tedious at best
which is why my ELS has a numeric keypad and an dual purpose encoder knob.
An it's not like numeric keypads aren't available inexpensively.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-24-18 8:56 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC
> 
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:54 PM Marcus Bowman <
> marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> >
> > On 24 Jul 2018, at 07:33, Chris Albertson wrote:
> >
> > >   What I want and am looking for is a kind of conversational system
> > > where I can walk up to the mill and use it for something simple with
no
> > > need for g-code.   I'm going back and forth on what would be best.
> > >
> >
> > I use a library of self-written general-purpose programs for the
everyday
> > common tasks. These have a parameter block at the start where I can
> quickly
> > modify sizes and speeds, so that the program can be modified in the
editor
> > for the task on the mill at the time.
> >
> 
> That seems like a good way to start.   I could then have a hand held
device
> that allows to enter the parameters.  Text enters means a trip through a
> computer.   But a hand wheel is actually not a bad way to enter numbers
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC, Freecad

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Tue, 2018-07-24 at 18:07 +0200, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> Did not follow and did not immidiately find anything about Freecad. I tried 
> for some simple things and to design parts seems to work rather well but 
> adding dimensions, drawing views, FEM and CAM is maybe not very good.


I use FreeCAD to design the parts and PyCAM to transform to gcode

http://pycam.sourceforge.net/





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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Jon Elson]

On 07/24/2018 07:37 AM, Valerio Bellizzomi wrote:
I use FreeCAD and Blender for the modeling and PyCAM to 
convert to gcode all on Debian
I'd like to hear more about this.  I tried the VERY latest 
FreeCAD a couple months ago and it seemed to have some 
problems.  So, we then went with Inventor (Autodesk).  That 
works pretty well, but can be very complicated for an 
occasional user.


I'm thinking maybe that I should not have tried the very 
latest release of FreeCAD, and maybe let the new bugs get 
fixed first.  So, what version are you using?  What source 
of info did you find to learn to use it?


Thanks,

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 July 2018 08:21:18 andy pugh wrote:

> On 24 July 2018 at 07:53, Marcus Bowman
>
>  wrote:
> > I used to think I would need manual knobs as well as the computer
> > control of the machine, but in 15 years or so, I have never had the
> > need.
>
> Me too. I kept the manual knobs on my first conversion, and never used
> them. Then I retained the option on the current mill, and have never
> used them, and then I learned my lesson and didn't bother on the lathe
> conversion. But the lathe does have two MPGs on the saddle for those
> super-simple "Just need a groove turned" jobs.

Chuckle, and precisely why theres a couple dial encoders on the new apron 
of the sheldon. I'd put some on The Little Monster too but where? No 
room on that teeny apron, and I'm out of i/o until I fit another box and 
breakout board anyway. Just one of several jobs I need to do in the shop 
building, first being to remove the remains of a burned up drive belt in 
my 14" bandsaw.  Likely an all day job, the plastic of the belt is well 
welded into the pulley grooves, both on the motor and drive hub.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC, Freecad

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Did not follow and did not immidiately find anything about Freecad. I tried for 
some simple things and to design parts seems to work rather well but adding 
dimensions, drawing views, FEM and CAM is maybe not very good.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 08:56:16 -0700
Chris Albertson  wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:54 PM Marcus Bowman <
> marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> >
> > On 24 Jul 2018, at 07:33, Chris Albertson wrote:
> >
> > >   What I want and am looking for is a kind of conversational system
> > > where I can walk up to the mill and use it for something simple with no
> > > need for g-code.   I'm going back and forth on what would be best.
> > >
> >
> > I use a library of self-written general-purpose programs for the everyday
> > common tasks. These have a parameter block at the start where I can quickly
> > modify sizes and speeds, so that the program can be modified in the editor
> > for the task on the mill at the time.
> >
> 
> That seems like a good way to start.   I could then have a hand held device
> that allows to enter the parameters.  Text enters means a trip through a
> computer.   But a hand wheel is actually not a bad way to enter numbers

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Chris Albertson]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:54 PM Marcus Bowman <
marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:

>
> On 24 Jul 2018, at 07:33, Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> >   What I want and am looking for is a kind of conversational system
> > where I can walk up to the mill and use it for something simple with no
> > need for g-code.   I'm going back and forth on what would be best.
> >
>
> I use a library of self-written general-purpose programs for the everyday
> common tasks. These have a parameter block at the start where I can quickly
> modify sizes and speeds, so that the program can be modified in the editor
> for the task on the mill at the time.
>

That seems like a good way to start.   I could then have a hand held device
that allows to enter the parameters.  Text enters means a trip through a
computer.   But a hand wheel is actually not a bad way to enter numbers


-- 

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Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 July 2018 05:09:24 Tim Morley wrote:

> On 07/24/2018 12:17 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?
>
> I've been using CamBam (http://www.cambam.co.uk/) as a simple cad and
> cam system. It seems to work nicely on both windows and linux.
>
> Tim

Might be helpfull, but at $149 USD, is way above my pay grade. I'd much 
rather buy hardware with that kind of SS income.  I need a better A axis 
for starters. That $100 4" table from Grizzly/India is mechanically a 
P.O.S. even with a motor on it.
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--
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Valerio Bellizzomi]

On Mon, 2018-07-23 at 21:17 -0700, John Dammeyer wrote:
> Mini Poll here if possible
> I use WIN-7 and design with AlibreCAD and use MecSoft AlibreCAM to make the 
> G-Code.  As I get closer to getting the Mill converted I could do like I have 
> with the CNC router and run WIN-XP and MACH3.
> Or continue on the path I started with LinuxCNC.
> 
> So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?
> 
> Thanks
> John


I use FreeCAD and Blender for the modeling

and PyCAM to convert to gcode

all on Debian



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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 24 July 2018 at 05:17, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?

I would like to use all-FOSS but haven't found anything quite right.

As background I am a Mac user. When it came to a choice between Mach
and LinuxCNC I went with the latter largely as I didn't want to have
to buy a Windows licence. (not a decision I have regretted).
I didn't, at that time, have any real experience with Linux.

I have worked as a full-time CAD-jockey using Autodesk Inventor. I
have also used Alibre  a number of years ago, because it was free. I
did quite a bit of work with it then found my designs orphaned with
the switch to Geomagic.
Now that I have access to a free home license if Inventor I tend to use that.
As a Mac user I like that I can run Fusion360 natively, and the
workflow is enough like that of Inventor that I sometimes use that
instead.
Fusion and Inventor share the same CAM system (bit Fusion CAM has a
few more advanced toolpaths than the free version of Inventor HSM, Or
at least this was the case last time I looked)

I have uses CamBam, and it was OK.
SheetCAM is good for laser / plasma stuff and usable for 2.5D milling
too. Available for Linux too, and the developer is on this mailing
list.

I tried PyCAM a while ago. I liked that it was cross-platform, but at
the time I tried it the 3D toolpath generation took _way_ too long.
Overnight at best...
This might have improved now, though it is no longer cross platform
according to http://pycam.sourceforge.net/

So, I think I am like many others in using Fusion because it is
excellent, but feeling a little cheapened by the experience.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 24 July 2018 at 07:33, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> Yes.  I user Cura on the Mac.  then literally walk the SD card from the Mac
> to the printer.

That's just silly :-)

https://octoprint.org/download/

Makes your printer wireless, and a plug-in provided with Cura replaces
the "save to file" button with a "print with octoprint" button.

Octoprint is fully open-source and has a very active community. Lots
of interesting plug-ins exist for Octoprint too. (like skipping a
failed part in a multi-part build, which it does purely by inspection
of the G-code)

Octoprint also lets you watch your prints with a webcam (I think you
can even view this  directly in Cura)

-- 
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designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 24 July 2018 at 07:53, Marcus Bowman
 wrote:

> I used to think I would need manual knobs as well as the computer control of 
> the machine, but in 15 years or so, I have never had the need.

Me too. I kept the manual knobs on my first conversion, and never used
them. Then I retained the option on the current mill, and have never
used them, and then I learned my lesson and didn't bother on the lathe
conversion. But the lathe does have two MPGs on the saddle for those
super-simple "Just need a groove turned" jobs.


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 24 July 2018 at 07:31, Marcus Bowman
 wrote:

> For 3D CAD, I use Inventor, but that has no output for CNC, so I will 
> probably migrate to Fusion360 next, when I get time to familiarise myself 
> with that.

There is CAM for inventor. In fact the very same CAM as Fusion. There
are three levels of it, all the way up to very fancy 5 axis.
https://www.autodesk.com/products/hsm/overview

The free version is OK, but rather bizarrely a little less advanced
than the version in free Fusion. So I quite often design in Inventor
than export the model to Fusion.
(And sometimes I just use Fusion all the way, as that runs native on
my Mac whereas the graphics in the VM on the Mac that runs Inventor
are a little sluggish)
I am not sure I would recommend buying Inventor, though. I get it for
free as a perk of the day job :-) It is better than Fusion, I think,
but not by _that_ much.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Tim Morley]

On 07/24/2018 12:17 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>
> So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?

I've been using CamBam (http://www.cambam.co.uk/) as a simple cad and
cam system. It seems to work nicely on both windows and linux.

Tim

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 24 July 2018 00:17:29 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Mini Poll here if possible
> I use WIN-7 and design with AlibreCAD and use MecSoft AlibreCAM to
> make the G-Code.  As I get closer to getting the Mill converted I
> could do like I have with the CNC router and run WIN-XP and MACH3. Or
> continue on the path I started with LinuxCNC.
>
> So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
I might be the odd man out John, but I rely heavily on lcnc's looping 
abilities and write my own gcode. I've got 90 line files that take 3 
days to run, sharpening a carbide tipped table saw blade. Shapest blade 
I ever had on that tablesaw too. Output from eagle and pcb2gcode are 
huge 100,000 + lines of code affairs because it has no looping, 
everything is "unrolled". Longest files of gcode I've ever run. I'm to 
slow in my advanced years to grok how to run a cad/cam and make usable 
code, its easier to just write it myself.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Greg Bentzinger via Emc-users]

I started using SolidWorks about 2000 and bought my own license in 2004. When 
the market effectively died in 2007 I decided to let the SW maintenance expire 
since it wasn't earning its keep.
In 2010 I bought the full monte Alibre Design Expert package and it has served 
me well doing most everything SW was for 1/3 the cost. I also use the Mecsoft 
AlibreCAM plugin for milling. I will skip the drama of Alibre being bought out 
by 3D systems before the founding Alibre staff ransomed back the company. My 
main fault with the Alibre staff is they based the product on the Visual DotNet 
platform. (bad programers - should have to go sit in a corner and write a loop 
that prints "I will not write code that links dot net libraries!" in assembly 
code a million times.)
But to be honest for most work, the fastest solution for a 2 1/2D program is to 
fire up a DOSBox window and run a virtual x86 session for BoBCAD gold v12 DOS 
edition. I can draw or solve needed geometry and generate the basic gcode in a 
few minutes. Due to being compiled for DOS (circa 1991) I can run the DOSBox 
app on a raspberry pi and for BOBCAD its like running on a CRAY super computer. 
Its greatest detraction is the built in DOS VGA output coding which leaves you 
stuck with only 640x480 as your only output option.
I once inquired about obtaining the rights to the source code for V12 and V14, 
but BOBCAD was content to keep the DOS version dead and buried. V12 was rock 
stable, V14 I can not comment on as I waited too late to consider upgrading and 
the NEW Windows (buggy as an ant hill) version was out.
Serious thought - if a group of serious programmers formed a open source 
CAD/CAM project for Linux and could show the community a viable 2 1/2 D CADCAM 
suite with a structured published goal list I think many of us using Windows 
based warez that are paying yearly maintenance fees would consider signing on 
as patrons. The ultimate goal would be to drop the commercial warez once the 
software matures enough to cover a users needs. I would be paying $1200/yr just 
to keep my warez up to date. If I could drop the commercial warez to run open 
source and be a $400/yr patron I would be thrilled. Having the option to 
request certain new features and being able to add an additional donation 
incentive would also be nice.
Greg
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Bruce Layne]

On 07/24/2018 02:14 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:


That is not going to happen for two reasons
1) the deal is not introductory, It is licensed so that it is free for
those doing less then $50,000 of work per year  Those doing more have to
pay for it


I was unable to find the Fusion360 license agreement on the AutoDesk 
site.  Apparently, it's only available for viewing and clicking "I 
accept" as part of the installation process.  However, I'd be very 
surprised if there wasn't a clause stating that AutoDesk reserves the 
right to alter or amend the agreement at any time.  That's standard in 
these click-through software license agreements that nobody reads.  The 
agreements are very one sided.  The manufacturer owns the software.  
They can and will do anything they choose.


Example:  I seem to recall that Fusion360 was originally free for 
students and anyone doing less than $100,000 worth of work per year.  
Now you say it's $50,000.  Will it be $25,000 next year? Will the free 
introductory offer go away entirely?  If AutoDesk decides that they're 
losing more money in licensing revenue than they're gaining in future 
revenue by adding to their installed base via the free introductory 
offer, then they will discontinue the free introductory offer.  Yes, 
even if they swore they wouldn't and signed in blood.





2) it can save the files in any of about a dozen industry standard file
formats so it is really easy to move your projects both in and out of
Fusion. On the roadmap is to directly open and save to other file
formats.


I recall the AutoCAD DWG file format becoming increasingly proprietary 
and deliberately obfuscated after other CAD manufacturers started 
importing DWG files to help people move away from AutoCAD.  That's to be 
expected.  AutoDesk didn't want to make it easy for their customers to 
leave for a different CAD program that was easier and much less 
expensive.  Then there was the resulting industry push to create an open 
CAD format, the DXF. AutoDesk was the 800 pound CAD gorilla, so they had 
a lot of say in how the DXF format was developed.  Big surprise.  It 
wasn't the universal CAD format that users wanted.  There were different 
incompatible versions of the DXF.  Most CAD companies other than 
AutoDesk tried to standardize on one version of DXF but AutoDesk always 
seemed to have a different version of DXF, rendering that standard of 
limited use.  When you have a de facto monopoly, standard 
non-proprietary file formats are not your friend. Marketing issues such 
as this make me appreciate open source so much more.  Open source 
developers love well documented standards.


Fusion360 is currently among the least expensive 3D parametric CAD 
programs, so it makes sense that they support open standards now when 
they're still working to pull users back from the other 3D CAD programs 
that yanked the market out from under AutoDesk.  In a year or two... not 
so much.  Been there and got the T shirt.  Not my first CAD marketing rodeo.





I'm fan of open source software but


In the first year of Fusion360, I inquired on the Fusion360 forum about 
Fusion360 for Linux.  I certainly wasn't asking for an open source 
version.  I was asking if they'd have a version for Linux, given that 
they had Windows and Mac versions.  I assumed that they were using cross 
platform software development tools and while it wouldn't be as simple 
as cross compiling for Linux, it would be a lot easier than a complete 
rewrite.  I was told by the AutoDesk representative in the Fusion360 
forum that there would never be a Linux version because people who use 
Linux won't pay for software. The response was right up there with 
Microsoft's comment that open source software is cancer.  I tried to 
explain that I paid $1250 plus annual licensing fees for the 
professional version of Eagle electronic CAD software, largely BECAUSE 
there as a stable native Linux version.  Apparently, I'm an aberration, 
because Linux users are all hippie freeloaders.   :-/


I'm not hating on Fusion360.  It's very nice software that's growing and 
improving rapidly.  I think it's much more user friendly than AutoCAD 
was, given the relative nature of CAD, then and now.  Many people have 
been able to take advantage of the free introductory offer to learn CAD 
and do a lot of useful work and that's a very good thing.  The cost is 
reasonable for companies leasing it annually.  I just wanted to make 
sure that people realized that AutoDesk is in business to make money and 
they're not running a charity to give away nice CAD software to 
everyone.  TANSTAAFL. Solidworks et al ate AutoDesk's lunch and drank 
their milkshake because AutoDesk rested on their laurels.  Being the 
monopoly CAD company made them lazy.  Now they're working to earn back 
market share they lost when other CAD companies like Solidworks did a 
better job of meeting the customer's needs.  Competition is a good 
thing.  The end users benefit 

Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Very cool.
Reminds me of the year when we took our little holiday trailer from Alberta
to California.   Somewhere near Petaluma in a campground my wife was outside
soaking up the rays sun tanning.  I was inside the trailer playing with my
new toy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armatron
John

> 
> No photo?  Here is a link to one
> .bricogeek.com/img_cms/2601-mantis-gripper-robot-arm.jpg
>  arm.jpg>
> 
> The arm is obsolete but the gripper is worth trying.  Google will turn up
> any number of photos if you enter "mantis gripper"
> 


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Chris,
> Yes I use Fusion but the last Windows I used was Windows 95.   I use
Fusion
> on a Mac.
Ah,  I didn't realize it was also available for the MAC.

> > For CAM the Fusion360 generated STL files can be changed to G-Code by
> Cura
> > or Repetier for your 3D printer.
> >
> 
> Yes.  I user Cura on the Mac.  then literally walk the SD card from the
Mac
> to the printer.Going to change that so the printer can pull files from
> a Synology NAS server.  This means adding a Raspberry Pi to the printer.
> Will at the sometime add a web-cam to the printer so I can check progress
> using my iPhone.  Some printer can take 6 or even 8 hours.
> 
I am very pleased with Octopi and a Raspberry Pi2 with USB WiFi dongle.  It
sits in another room with the printer and the camera on the Pi lets me watch
what is going on.

> > For CAM and LinuxCNC (I'm assuming since you are on this list you use
> > LinuxCNC) does Fusion360 generate the G-Code?  Or is there something
else
> > inbetween.
> > 
> Fusion can generate g-code for lathes and mills up to 5-axis.  It gives
> pretty good control of the tool path. there are lots or parameters and you
> change them and can see how it changes the path.
> 
Cool.  Didn't know that.  I've found the MecSoft CAM software is easy to
use.  Both stand alone and also the AlibreCAM version.  Not cheap though. I
have the 4 axis version in anticipation for working with my new 4th axis
harmonic drive.

> You sometimes also write G-Code directly.
> >
> 
> No.  I cut and past a few lines of boiler plat now and then.   The problem
> with wring-code is that it is machine specific.

Only occasionally.  One instance was drilling 16 holes in a plastic panel
for a DIN rail box.  Special jig to hold the panel.  Press go.  Drill holes.
Remove panel. Blow away plastic. Insert new Panel. Repeat.  Easier I think
than using a CAM program.
> 
> Almost.  What I want and am looking for is a kind of conversational system
> where I can walk up to the mill and use it for something simple with no
> need for g-code.   I'm going back and forth on what would be best.  But my
> first try will be a hand held box with a control wheel and an LCD screen
> and so buttons.   It can completely by-pass LCNC

You're describing a Mill version of my Electronic Lead Screw.  That was one
of the reasons I was looking more closely at the BeagleBone MachineKit.
Benefits of full LinuxCNC when needed but also the MPG, buttons and display
for manual control.  My ELS uses a parallel port connector that with a
printer port switch can move between a PC running CNC software and the ELS
which has a more manual lathe control interface.   One day I may get there.

For the last couple of years I've had my ELS running the Knee on the mill.
Essentially a power feed but with a return to home button I can move it down
out of the way and then just return it to where it was automatically.  
> 
Still looking forward to getting the mill fully CNC>

John

> 
> >
> > --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Marcus Bowman]

On 24 Jul 2018, at 07:33, Chris Albertson wrote:

>   What I want and am looking for is a kind of conversational system
> where I can walk up to the mill and use it for something simple with no
> need for g-code.   I'm going back and forth on what would be best.
> 

I use a library of self-written general-purpose programs for the everyday 
common tasks. These have a parameter block at the start where I can quickly 
modify sizes and speeds, so that the program can be modified in the editor for 
the task on the mill at the time.
It's half a step removed from conversational programming, but makes most simple 
tasks easy and quick to do (like taking a pass along an edge, cutting a 
rectangular perimeter (with or without radiused corners or ends), cutting a 
rectangular or circular pocket, cutting an arc on the end of a workpiece, 
executing multiple surfacing passes to flatten a face,engrave a scale, etc, etc.
This means (a) I only have to load one of these programs to do most 
straightforward tasks, and (b) I can easily edit the guts of several routines 
together, or add additional code, to make a more complex program quite quickly.
For anything with more complex curves or multiple perimeters and pockets, I use 
the CAD (VCarve Pro).

>   But my
> first try will be a hand held box with a control wheel and an LCD screen
> and so buttons.   It can completely by-pass LCNC


I used to think I would need manual knobs as well as the computer control of 
the machine, but in 15 years or so, I have never had the need.
We each have our own style, though, and I have a friend who has a gantry router 
and he often moves it manually.

Marcus


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Chris Albertson]

No photo?  Here is a link to one
.bricogeek.com/img_cms/2601-mantis-gripper-robot-arm.jpg
<https://cdn-blog.bricogeek.com/img_cms/2601-mantis-gripper-robot-arm.jpg>

The arm is obsolete but the gripper is worth trying.  Google will turn up
any number of photos if you enter "mantis gripper"

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:31 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Rats.  No picture...
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: July-23-18 11:15 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:21 PM Bruce Layne
> > 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Many people now use Fusion360.  There was a very attractive
> introductory
> > > deal to lure people back away from SolidWorks and similar 3D parametric
> > > CAD programs that had been gobbling up market share.  I've witnessed
> > > these marketing driven software product cycles before.  Enough people
> > > have now switched to Fusion360 that the door is about to slam shut.  It
> > > won't be long before people are held hostage to the CAD files they
> > > created and they can be abused and exploited.  AutoDesk got me on that
> > > one before.  I'm not falling for it again, no matter how nice Fusion360
> > > looks.
> > >
> > >
> > That is not going to happen for two reasons
> > 1) the deal is not introductory, It is licensed so that it is free for
> > those doing less then $50,000 of work per year  Those doing more have to
> > pay for it
> > 2) it can save the files in any of about a dozen industry standard file
> > formats so it is really easy to move your projects both in and out of
> > Fusion. On the roadmap is to directly open and save to other file
> > formats.
> >
> > I'm fan of open source software but none of the open source 3D modeling
> > software is "there"yet.  With the exception of "Blender" but that is
> mostly
> > aimed at the entertainment industry.   It is all quite primitive and
> > especially the CAM parts.
> >
> > Again look at the parts YOU want to make.   Here is an example of
> something
> > I worked on:  The photo below is of a "mantis" arm with gripper and the
> > design was posted as "open source" but in Solidworks files.  At first the
> > gripper looks nice but you quickly find that the design is un-even. Some
> > parts are to heavy, some are not strong enough and flex under load and
> the
> > gripper has twice as many ball bearing inside as it needs.   The design
> > needs some revision.   It as nearly trivealto import the gripper, modify
> > the parts, make some 3D printed and machine some metal parts.  This is
> one
> > of the best 2-finger general purpose grippers and even better after some
> > fixes.  The geared design is brilliant.  But I think for many tasks two
> > fingers and thumb are needed because having only two points on an object
> > being lifted allows rotation.The rest of the arm does not perform as
> > well as it looks.  The motors just don't have enough power to weight.
> But
> > I have built a whole series of mantis grippers
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 07/24/2018 12:17 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > > Mini Poll here if possible
> > > > I use WIN-7 and design with AlibreCAD and use MecSoft AlibreCAM to
> > make
> > > the G-Code.  As I get closer to getting the Mill converted I could do
> like
> > > I have with the CNC router and run WIN-XP and MACH3.
> > > > Or continue on the path I started with LinuxCNC.
> > > >
> > > > So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> 
> --
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> > > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> 
> --

Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Chris Albertson]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:55 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> So to summarize your reply.
> When you draw using a PC rather than the back of an envelope you use
> Windows
> and Fusion360.
>

Yes I use Fusion but the last Windows I used was Windows 95.   I use Fusion
on a Mac.


> For CAM the Fusion360 generated STL files can be changed to G-Code by Cura
> or Repetier for your 3D printer.
>

Yes.  I user Cura on the Mac.  then literally walk the SD card from the Mac
to the printer.Going to change that so the printer can pull files from
a Synology NAS server.  This means adding a Raspberry Pi to the printer.
Will at the sometime add a web-cam to the printer so I can check progress
using my iPhone.  Some printer can take 6 or even 8 hours.


> For CAM and LinuxCNC (I'm assuming since you are on this list you use
> LinuxCNC) does Fusion360 generate the G-Code?  Or is there something else
> inbetween.
>

Fusion can generate g-code for lathes and mills up to 5-axis.  It gives
pretty good control of the tool path. there are lots or parameters and you
change them and can see how it changes the path.

You sometimes also write G-Code directly.
>

No.  I cut and past a few lines of boiler plat now and then.   The problem
with wring-code is that it is machine specific.

Does that cover what _you_ do?
>

Almost.  What I want and am looking for is a kind of conversational system
where I can walk up to the mill and use it for something simple with no
need for g-code.   I'm going back and forth on what would be best.  But my
first try will be a hand held box with a control wheel and an LCD screen
and so buttons.   It can completely by-pass LCNC


>
> --

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Rats.  No picture...

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-23-18 11:15 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC
> 
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:21 PM Bruce Layne
> 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Many people now use Fusion360.  There was a very attractive introductory
> > deal to lure people back away from SolidWorks and similar 3D parametric
> > CAD programs that had been gobbling up market share.  I've witnessed
> > these marketing driven software product cycles before.  Enough people
> > have now switched to Fusion360 that the door is about to slam shut.  It
> > won't be long before people are held hostage to the CAD files they
> > created and they can be abused and exploited.  AutoDesk got me on that
> > one before.  I'm not falling for it again, no matter how nice Fusion360
> > looks.
> >
> >
> That is not going to happen for two reasons
> 1) the deal is not introductory, It is licensed so that it is free for
> those doing less then $50,000 of work per year  Those doing more have to
> pay for it
> 2) it can save the files in any of about a dozen industry standard file
> formats so it is really easy to move your projects both in and out of
> Fusion. On the roadmap is to directly open and save to other file
> formats.
> 
> I'm fan of open source software but none of the open source 3D modeling
> software is "there"yet.  With the exception of "Blender" but that is
mostly
> aimed at the entertainment industry.   It is all quite primitive and
> especially the CAM parts.
> 
> Again look at the parts YOU want to make.   Here is an example of
something
> I worked on:  The photo below is of a "mantis" arm with gripper and the
> design was posted as "open source" but in Solidworks files.  At first the
> gripper looks nice but you quickly find that the design is un-even. Some
> parts are to heavy, some are not strong enough and flex under load and the
> gripper has twice as many ball bearing inside as it needs.   The design
> needs some revision.   It as nearly trivealto import the gripper, modify
> the parts, make some 3D printed and machine some metal parts.  This is one
> of the best 2-finger general purpose grippers and even better after some
> fixes.  The geared design is brilliant.  But I think for many tasks two
> fingers and thumb are needed because having only two points on an object
> being lifted allows rotation.The rest of the arm does not perform as
> well as it looks.  The motors just don't have enough power to weight.
But
> I have built a whole series of mantis grippers
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >
> >
> > On 07/24/2018 12:17 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > Mini Poll here if possible
> > > I use WIN-7 and design with AlibreCAD and use MecSoft AlibreCAM to
> make
> > the G-Code.  As I get closer to getting the Mill converted I could do
like
> > I have with the CNC router and run WIN-XP and MACH3.
> > > Or continue on the path I started with LinuxCNC.
> > >
> > > So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >

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> > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >

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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Marcus Bowman]

I write a lot of native G-Code programs, often using my library of  G-Code 
routines, and coding directly using a text editor on the Linux machine. 

As for CAD programs, I'm running Vectric VCarve Pro, on a W7 PC. I have 
slightly customised the post-processor, so VCarve gives me a ready-to-use file 
for the LinuxCNC machine.
Those programs run fine as they are, but I often tweak them, mainly to make 
some values into parameters so that I can experiment with cutting and 
traversing speeds. That way, if I am making a batch of components, I can 
quickly optimise the speed and the finish. It's quicker than having to run the 
CAD post-processor every time.

I sometimes use Illustrator, and/or the scanner, on my Mac, to create a shape, 
then put that into VCarve Pro on the W7 PC. I have probably done less of that 
as VCarve has improved from version to version. I used to use Cut2D, but that 
was before I upgraded to VCarve.

The Mac is the machine of choice; the W7 is there to run VCarve Pro, and the 
Linux PC is attached to the mill.

I have, and used to use, Mach3 a lot, but it lacks the programming structures 
of LinuxCNC and that limits it severely in my opinion. I can't compare either 
with Mach4. I like programming, so LinuxCNC suits me well.

For 3D CAD, I use Inventor, but that has no output for CNC, so I will probably 
migrate to Fusion360 next, when I get time to familiarise myself with that.

Marcus



On 24 Jul 2018, at 05:17, John Dammeyer wrote:

> Mini Poll here if possible
> I use WIN-7 and design with AlibreCAD and use MecSoft AlibreCAM to make the 
> G-Code.  As I get closer to getting the Mill converted I could do like I have 
> with the CNC router and run WIN-XP and MACH3.
> Or continue on the path I started with LinuxCNC.
> 
> So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?
> 
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Chris Albertson]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 10:21 PM Bruce Layne 
wrote:

>
> Many people now use Fusion360.  There was a very attractive introductory
> deal to lure people back away from SolidWorks and similar 3D parametric
> CAD programs that had been gobbling up market share.  I've witnessed
> these marketing driven software product cycles before.  Enough people
> have now switched to Fusion360 that the door is about to slam shut.  It
> won't be long before people are held hostage to the CAD files they
> created and they can be abused and exploited.  AutoDesk got me on that
> one before.  I'm not falling for it again, no matter how nice Fusion360
> looks.
>
>
That is not going to happen for two reasons
1) the deal is not introductory, It is licensed so that it is free for
those doing less then $50,000 of work per year  Those doing more have to
pay for it
2) it can save the files in any of about a dozen industry standard file
formats so it is really easy to move your projects both in and out of
Fusion. On the roadmap is to directly open and save to other file
formats.

I'm fan of open source software but none of the open source 3D modeling
software is "there"yet.  With the exception of "Blender" but that is mostly
aimed at the entertainment industry.   It is all quite primitive and
especially the CAM parts.

Again look at the parts YOU want to make.   Here is an example of something
I worked on:  The photo below is of a "mantis" arm with gripper and the
design was posted as "open source" but in Solidworks files.  At first the
gripper looks nice but you quickly find that the design is un-even. Some
parts are to heavy, some are not strong enough and flex under load and the
gripper has twice as many ball bearing inside as it needs.   The design
needs some revision.   It as nearly trivealto import the gripper, modify
the parts, make some 3D printed and machine some metal parts.  This is one
of the best 2-finger general purpose grippers and even better after some
fixes.  The geared design is brilliant.  But I think for many tasks two
fingers and thumb are needed because having only two points on an object
being lifted allows rotation.The rest of the arm does not perform as
well as it looks.  The motors just don't have enough power to weight.   But
I have built a whole series of mantis grippers



>
>
>
> On 07/24/2018 12:17 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Mini Poll here if possible
> > I use WIN-7 and design with AlibreCAD and use MecSoft AlibreCAM to make
> the G-Code.  As I get closer to getting the Mill converted I could do like
> I have with the CNC router and run WIN-XP and MACH3.
> > Or continue on the path I started with LinuxCNC.
> >
> > So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> --
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Chris,
So to summarize your reply.
When you draw using a PC rather than the back of an envelope you use Windows
and Fusion360.
For CAM the Fusion360 generated STL files can be changed to G-Code by Cura
or Repetier for your 3D printer.
For CAM and LinuxCNC (I'm assuming since you are on this list you use
LinuxCNC) does Fusion360 generate the G-Code?  Or is there something else
inbetween.
You sometimes also write G-Code directly.
Does that cover what _you_ do?
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-23-18 10:14 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC
> 
> I don't see why it matters.   The CNC machine accepts g-code.You
should
> be able to use any CAD software that can write g-code with either Mach4 or
> LinuxCNC.   Of course there is slight difference in the g-codes but not a
> huge problem. Selecting either   Mach3/4 or LCNC should not force your
> selection of CAD software.
> 
> If you do a poll I think you find some people do some hand coding for
> simple projects, a few use conversational systems.   But when you get to
> full up 3D modeling you will find that price is a huge factor and the
lower
> cost and free CAD/CAM systems are the most popular.  I know a few
> hobbyists
> using Solid Works but these are boot-leg copies, no licenses.
> 
> What you really need to ask is "what kind of stuff do I make?" and what
> software is best for making that kind of stuff.So what if "everyone"
> uses FreeCAD?  Maybe are making model railroad parts and they are not.
> 
> I use Autodesk Fusion 360.  It is free for small-time users and I can use
> the same design files for either 3D printing or sending to CNC.  Support
is
> good and the rate of updates is about right, updates about once per month
> or so and questions get answered promptly.   It has a billion dollar
> company behind it, so it is not going to go away.
> 
> As for the parts, I am making little parts for small robots.  Mostly I can
> 3D print the parts but some need the strength of metal.Parts tend to be
all
> counpoud curves and "organic" shapes but still with precision dimensions
> for things like pressed-in ball bearings and screws. Examples of parts are
> like these are  in power tools, the housing for a cordless drill or an
> automotive tail light lens.   Fusion can do these kinds of parts well.
> And of course it can also do the more common "2 1/2D" parts made from
> aluminum plate too.
> 
> So you really need to think abut what you need to make, and use what does
> that best.
> 
> If a 3D printer is one your wish list and it should be as they now cost
> under $200, make sure your workflow cn support both CNCand printing. you
> do
> NOT want to have incompatible"vertical" software stacks.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 9:18 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> > Mini Poll here if possible
> > I use WIN-7 and design with AlibreCAD and use MecSoft AlibreCAM to make
> > the G-Code.  As I get closer to getting the Mill converted I could do
like
> > I have with the CNC router and run WIN-XP and MACH3.
> > Or continue on the path I started with LinuxCNC.
> >
> > So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >

--
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>

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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Bruce Layne]

Not sure if this will be a useful response, but in the interest of not 
omitting an option


I write my G code manually.  This gives me the ultimate control over the 
process.  CAD and CAM are both very mature now, but I still prefer to 
write the programs myself.  This wouldn't be an option for someone doing 
a lot of job shop work, with the need to input customers' CAD files or 
quickly create a CAD file from a concept sketch and then quickly spit 
out the G code using a CAM program, but I'm not running a job shop and I 
don't do much one-off work.  My methods also wouldn't work for mold 
makers, but my parts are usually fairly simple 2.5D parts.  I write G 
code that is used for ongoing production.  The same programs are run 
daily.  The time required to write the programs isn't much when 
amortized over the life of the program.


Writing the G code is almost incidental to designing the parts.  It 
feels like I'm writing G code in the background as I'm designing the 
various parts of a machined project.  The design and development is what 
takes time.  I doubt I'd proceed any more quickly if the back end to the 
design process was CAD/CAM instead of typing G code.


I also save the time it takes to learn new CAD and CAM software, which 
is fairly significant.


I visualize the parts by previewing them in LinuxCNC as I write the G 
code.  The design process is very iterative and the G code runs on the 
production hardware, so tight fitting parts can be optimized as the 
program is written.  I get a better feel for the design process when I 
can tweak as I'm designing.  I avoid designing an entire project only to 
realize at the start of production that a part in the middle of the 
design process can't be made to work and the project needs to be redesigned.


For complex or repetitive coding, I'll use one of the python scripts or 
PyCam.  Andy's lathe macros would be a great choice if you wanted a 
conversational programming process for shop lathe work.


Writing G code is also a necessity when I make a custom production tool 
that's controlled by LinuxCNC.  There is no CAD or CAM that will 
generate G code to pick up a part on the spindle that's serving as a 
mandrel, move the spinning part across a pair of razor knife cutters to 
precisely trim the rubbery parts to length, then move the part to a U 
shaped fixture protrusion that is used to pull the parts off the spindle.


I use FreeCAD to design more complex 3D parts to be 3D printed. They're 
working on FreeCAM, and when that's ready for prime time (or near 
enough), I may use that open source tool chain to generate G code for 
LinuxCNC.  Until then, I'll continue to write the G code manually.  I 
always enjoyed RISC assembler programming for microcontrollers, for a 
lot of the same reasons I prefer to write my own G code.  Simple tools 
for simple minds, eh?


Many people now use Fusion360.  There was a very attractive introductory 
deal to lure people back away from SolidWorks and similar 3D parametric 
CAD programs that had been gobbling up market share.  I've witnessed 
these marketing driven software product cycles before.  Enough people 
have now switched to Fusion360 that the door is about to slam shut.  It 
won't be long before people are held hostage to the CAD files they 
created and they can be abused and exploited.  AutoDesk got me on that 
one before.  I'm not falling for it again, no matter how nice Fusion360 
looks.






On 07/24/2018 12:17 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Mini Poll here if possible
I use WIN-7 and design with AlibreCAD and use MecSoft AlibreCAM to make the 
G-Code.  As I get closer to getting the Mill converted I could do like I have 
with the CNC router and run WIN-XP and MACH3.
Or continue on the path I started with LinuxCNC.

So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?

Thanks
John


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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for LinuxCNC

[Chris Albertson]

I don't see why it matters.   The CNC machine accepts g-code.You should
be able to use any CAD software that can write g-code with either Mach4 or
LinuxCNC.   Of course there is slight difference in the g-codes but not a
huge problem. Selecting either   Mach3/4 or LCNC should not force your
selection of CAD software.

If you do a poll I think you find some people do some hand coding for
simple projects, a few use conversational systems.   But when you get to
full up 3D modeling you will find that price is a huge factor and the lower
cost and free CAD/CAM systems are the most popular.  I know a few hobbyists
using Solid Works but these are boot-leg copies, no licenses.

What you really need to ask is "what kind of stuff do I make?" and what
software is best for making that kind of stuff.So what if "everyone"
uses FreeCAD?  Maybe are making model railroad parts and they are not.

I use Autodesk Fusion 360.  It is free for small-time users and I can use
the same design files for either 3D printing or sending to CNC.  Support is
good and the rate of updates is about right, updates about once per month
or so and questions get answered promptly.   It has a billion dollar
company behind it, so it is not going to go away.

As for the parts, I am making little parts for small robots.  Mostly I can
3D print the parts but some need the strength of metal.Parts tend to be all
counpoud curves and "organic" shapes but still with precision dimensions
for things like pressed-in ball bearings and screws. Examples of parts are
like these are  in power tools, the housing for a cordless drill or an
automotive tail light lens.   Fusion can do these kinds of parts well.
And of course it can also do the more common "2 1/2D" parts made from
aluminum plate too.

So you really need to think abut what you need to make, and use what does
that best.

If a 3D printer is one your wish list and it should be as they now cost
under $200, make sure your workflow cn support both CNCand printing. you do
NOT want to have incompatible"vertical" software stacks.



On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 9:18 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Mini Poll here if possible
> I use WIN-7 and design with AlibreCAD and use MecSoft AlibreCAM to make
> the G-Code.  As I get closer to getting the Mill converted I could do like
> I have with the CNC router and run WIN-XP and MACH3.
> Or continue on the path I started with LinuxCNC.
>
> So what OS and CAD/CAM software are users of LinuxCNC working with?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

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