Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Peri,
Interestingly enough, I have only once managed to get close to 5
mi/kWh on my Tesla Model S, on a warm day without climate control I
finally got the 30 mi average to dip to 202 Wh/mi just before
encountering a hill that pushed the average up again, typical driving
is about 250 Wh/mi. On my 2013 Leaf however, it is easy to maintain a
long term average of 5.1 mi/kWh so maybe it is other factors, but that
Leaf is exceptionally frugal, this can also be seen that its "new"
battery (built in 2019) of 24kWh (~20 usable) can easily do a 92 mile
round trip, all on freeways though maintaining a 55 MPH speed in the
right hand lane. So it is not as if the average is way off from actual
consumption...
Now, I*do* agree that a Model S is a whole lot more car than a Leaf though.
Cor.


On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 11:50 AM Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
>
> Here's one of the reasons Tesla is better: lower drag coefficient. Why
> does that matter ? At freeway speeds that means more range per kWh. And
> that means a smaller battery to be competitive. And that means less
> weight, which also increases range.
>
> Cd
> Tesla 3: 0.23
> Tesla Y: 0.23
> Tesla X: 0.24
>
> Subaru Solterra: 0.28
> Toyota bZ4X: 0.26
> Audi e-tron: 0.28
> volvo xc40: 0.34
> ford mustang: 0.30
> Chevy Bolt EUV: 0.31
> Huyndai Ioniq 5: 0.29
> Kia EV6: 0.28
> Mazda MX-30: 0.29
> Nissan Ariya: 0.30
> Volkswagen ID.4 : 0.28
>
> I wish Tesla would come out with an off road model. One that has
> hydraulic (or servo) suspension lifters so that it can cruise low on the
> freeway and then lift high for avoiding rocks and ruts on mountain
> roads. Add to that tires with enough sidewall for same. In spite of
> Musk, when they do, "I'm down."
>
> Peri
>
>
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "EV List Lackey via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "EV List Lackey" 
> Sent: 20-May-22 10:29:40
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch
>
> >On 19 May 2022 at 13:17, Willie via EV wrote:
> >
> >>  I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without
> >>  Tesla and Musk.  That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward
> >>  both.
> >
> >Hmm, I thought I'd answered that in past posts.  Sorry if it wasn't clear.
> >I'll try again, and I hope that others will have some thoughts too.
> >
> >I'm not a researcher, but I suspect that the negativity toward Tesla EVs
> >themselves results in large part from their over-sold autopilot.
> >
> >Some owners believe Musk when he says the car is self-driving, so they do
> >stupid stuff and get into wrecks.  Tesla being the new kid in town, and high
> >profile, the news media are all over it, so everybody hears about it.
> >
> >Reliability problems may also be a factor.  Consumer Reports says that the
> >Model X was dead last for reliability in their 2021 survey.  :-(
> >
> >---
> >
> >The negativity toward Musk is also easy to explain.  He's a truly despicable
> >person, arguably a sociopath.  He has no filters, and he acts out in public
> >like a sixth grade class clown demanding attention.
> >
> >Several years ago, a friend of mine mentioned that she admired the Tesla S
> >but couldn't afford one.  Recently she was talking about getting a new (or
> >newer) car and I asked if she was considering buying a Model 3.  "From THAT
> >man?  Oh, *GOD* no.  No, no, no."
> >
> >I see similar reactions all over the web. There are thousands of people
> >who'd love to have a Tesla, if they didn't have to give some of their money
> >to Musk to get it.
> >
> >Those are anecdotes, and as any statistician will tell you, the plural of
> >anecdote is not data.  So here's some data for you.
> >
> >A recent survey found that only 25% of Democrats thought Tesla was
> >trustworthy as a company.  The trust level from Republicans, who aren't
> >known as big EV buyers, was actually HIGHER at 27%.
> >
> >The main point here is the percentage, not the politics.  I remember the
> >raised eyebrows some years back when a survey found that only 43% of
> >Americans had a positive impression of the US automakers as a group.
> >
> >And now we have ~26% trust for Tesla.  Yikes.
> >
> >But Tesla sales keep rising!  I'd argue that that's *despite* Musk's and
> >Tesla's negative images.  I'm pretty sure that it's not because of them.
> >
> >Tesla DOES make really good EVs.  You can tell, because their owners seem to
> >love them despite their reliabili

Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I know very well what it means. And, for a given  frontal area, a lower 
Cd means less drag. In Tesla's case, I think they are trying to maximize 
cabin space without having a larger battery, and the Cd has a 
significant effect on overall drag. Other manufacturers seem to be more 
interested in the macho bulldozer look at the expense of other factors.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "Paul Compton" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 29-May-22 00:34:52
Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch


On Fri, 20 May 2022 at 19:50, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:


 Here's one of the reasons Tesla is better: lower drag coefficient. Why does 
that matter?


You seem to be under the impression that a lower Cd equals lower drag.

You might want to go and look up the meaning of the word coefficient.

--
Paul Compton
www.paulcompton.co.uk (YouTube channel)


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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Fri, 20 May 2022 at 19:50, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:

> Here's one of the reasons Tesla is better: lower drag coefficient. Why does 
> that matter?

You seem to be under the impression that a lower Cd equals lower drag.

You might want to go and look up the meaning of the word coefficient.

-- 
Paul Compton
www.paulcompton.co.uk (YouTube channel)
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[paul dove via EV]

Reminds me of all the people defending AT when they lost in court to MCI. 
Talking about how bad it was to break up AT as if they did us any favors. Now 
you see the same thing only it’s against Tesla for daring to start their own 
car company and to boot not use advertising or dealerships. What astounds me is 
the EV enthusiast pulling if with the Auto and oil companies. 


Sent from AT Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, May 21, 2022, 7:34 AM, Willie via EV  wrote:


On 5/20/22 13:29, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
> On 19 May 2022 at 13:17, Willie via EV wrote:
>
>> I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without
>> Tesla and Musk.  That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward
>> both.
> Hmm, I thought I'd answered that in past posts.  Sorry if it wasn't clear.
> I'll try again, and I hope that others will have some thoughts too.

Well I remain bumfuzzled.

I just can not see from your viewpoint.  For decades, you and many of us 
here have striven to promote adoption of EVs.   In the past ~10 years, 
we have enjoyed astonishing success.  To most, it is clear that 
Tesla/Musk is the near sole cause.  Yet you try to argue that it would 
be happening in the absence of Tesla/Musk. And, you fault Musk not on 
his accomplishments but on his personality.  Thereby 
denying/refuting/ignoring those accomplishments.

Personally, I find most auto advertising insulting.  I cite recent 
Cadillac EV advertising that the Cadillac buyer can be "iconic" and all 
sorts of vague meaningless terms.  Tesla is highly admirable in choosing 
to let customers sell cars through honest evaluations.  With ZERO 
advertising.  A very significant side effect is that Tesla has near zero 
support from mainstream media.  That, because of the tremendous ad 
revenues coming from traditional auto makers and dealers.   I do wish 
Musk would be more circumspect in his public statements but I consider 
that flaw to be dwarfed by his accomplishments.  But, Musk is savaged by 
MSM and many are swayed by MSM, not really doing much independent thinking.

On FSD: as others have pointed out, it is an option.  It need not be 
bought or used if bought.  Despite all the negative MSM coverage, AP and 
FSD statistics are that a driver using it is far less likely to have an 
accident than a driver that does not use it.  I fail to understand how 
critics remain critical in the face of such facts.


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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Willie via EV]

On 5/21/22 12:51, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:



AP and FSD statistics are that a driver using it is far less likely to
have an accident than a driver that does not use it.

Citation needed, if you don't mind.  Not Tesla stats, please.


If other statistics are available, I am unaware.  However, except to 
time lines, I have a high level of trust in Musk.



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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Willie via EV]

On 5/21/22 12:51, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:


There are also folks for whom Musk's crassness, disregard for environmental,
financial, and labor laws, and abuse of employees (especially women and
minorities) are features, not bugs.


I don't know enough about Musk to offer such a firm opinion; either 
positive or negative.  I do offer that Musk is not treated fairly or 
honestly my MSM for reasons I outlined.  Essentially, Musk does not 
expend resources defending himself well in the media.  Which is fine by me.




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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I have a unique perspective, having played a role in the push for the original 
ZEV mandate in California, and think that it’s safe to say that Musk (and the 
original Tesla developers) pushed forward the “tipping point” on EVs by as much 
as decades.

His role, on several levels, has been unique, historical and successful.

That being said, there is much he has done that is despicable - his disrespect 
of and flaunting of the rule of law,  his treatment of his workers, his 
destruction of the communities where he locates his plants, and so on. Much, 
not all, of that has been a factor in Tesla’s profitability.

Not that I’ve not mentioned one thing yet about his personality.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On May 21, 2022, at 7:58 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> I agree. It's all subjective, of course. On the other hand, i think the real 
> question is "when."
> 
> Without Musk, I'm certain EVs would have eventually become a commercial 
> product. But compare this to the reduction in working at the office and 
> shopping in physical stores. Before COVID, the trend was evident. The shift 
> was certain to happen ...eventually. But COVID sharply accelerated the 
> change. Likewise, so did Musk.
> 
> Peri
> 
> From: Willie via EV 
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2022 5:34 AM
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: Willie
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch
> 
> 
>> On 5/20/22 13:29, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
>>> On 19 May 2022 at 13:17, Willie via EV wrote:
>>> 
>>> I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without
>>> Tesla and Musk.  That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward
>>> both.
>> Hmm, I thought I'd answered that in past posts.  Sorry if it wasn't clear.
>> I'll try again, and I hope that others will have some thoughts too.
> Well I remain bumfuzzled.
> I just can not see from your viewpoint.  For decades, you and many of us 
> here have striven to promote adoption of EVs.   In the past ~10 years, 
> we have enjoyed astonishing success.  To most, it is clear that 
> Tesla/Musk is the near sole cause.  Yet you try to argue that it would 
> be happening in the absence of Tesla/Musk. And, you fault Musk not on 
> his accomplishments but on his personality.  Thereby 
> denying/refuting/ignoring those accomplishments.
> Personally, I find most auto advertising insulting.  I cite recent 
> Cadillac EV advertising that the Cadillac buyer can be "iconic" and all 
> sorts of vague meaningless terms.  Tesla is highly admirable in choosing 
> to let customers sell cars through honest evaluations.  With ZERO 
> advertising.  A very significant side effect is that Tesla has near zero 
> support from mainstream media.  That, because of the tremendous ad 
> revenues coming from traditional auto makers and dealers.   I do wish 
> Musk would be more circumspect in his public statements but I consider 
> that flaw to be dwarfed by his accomplishments.  But, Musk is savaged by 
> MSM and many are swayed by MSM, not really doing much independent thinking.
> On FSD: as others have pointed out, it is an option.  It need not be 
> bought or used if bought.  Despite all the negative MSM coverage, AP and 
> FSD statistics are that a driver using it is far less likely to have an 
> accident than a driver that does not use it.  I fail to understand how 
> critics remain critical in the face of such facts.
> ___
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 21 May 2022 at 8:34, Willie via EV wrote:

> I do wish Musk would be more circumspect in his public statements but I
> consider that flaw to be dwarfed by his accomplishments.

What can I tell you?  For some people, it's the other way round.  As with 
the friend I mentioned, for them, Musk's character and behavior dwarf his 
accomplishments. 

Maybe they'd like to have a Tesla EV, but they're fine with driving 
something less exciting and advanced, so as not to put their money in his 
already overstuffed pockets. 

Different people have different priorities.  That shouldn't be tough to 
understand.

I can see both sides.  Fortunately I don't have to pick one right now,  
because Tesla doesn't offer a vehicle that I'd want to buy.

There are also folks for whom Musk's crassness, disregard for environmental, 
financial, and labor laws, and abuse of employees (especially women and 
minorities) are features, not bugs. 

They're not just coal-rollers, either.  These days it's the fashion for 
bright, well-educated people, the "move fast and break things" type, to not 
bother with manners. Consideration for others is derided as "woke." It's hip 
to be rude, crude, coarse, and hateful - and ungrammatical. :-\  

If someone like that buys a Tesla instead of, I dunno, a BMW or something, I 
guess that's good, maybe?

> AP and FSD statistics are that a driver using it is far less likely to
> have an accident than a driver that does not use it. 

Citation needed, if you don't mind.  Not Tesla stats, please.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 The rain it raineth on the just
 And also on the unjust fella.
 But mostly on the just because
 The unjust steals the just's umbrella.

   -- Charles Bowen
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I agree. It's all subjective, of course. On the other hand, i think the real 
question is "when."

Without Musk, I'm certain EVs would have eventually become a commercial 
product. But compare this to the reduction in working at the office and 
shopping in physical stores. Before COVID, the trend was evident. The shift was 
certain to happen ...eventually. But COVID sharply accelerated the change. 
Likewise, so did Musk.

Peri

From: Willie via EV 
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2022 5:34 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: Willie
Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch


On 5/20/22 13:29, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
> On 19 May 2022 at 13:17, Willie via EV wrote:
>
>> I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without
>> Tesla and Musk.  That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward
>> both.
> Hmm, I thought I'd answered that in past posts.  Sorry if it wasn't clear.
> I'll try again, and I hope that others will have some thoughts too.
Well I remain bumfuzzled.
I just can not see from your viewpoint.  For decades, you and many of us 
here have striven to promote adoption of EVs.   In the past ~10 years, 
we have enjoyed astonishing success.  To most, it is clear that 
Tesla/Musk is the near sole cause.  Yet you try to argue that it would 
be happening in the absence of Tesla/Musk. And, you fault Musk not on 
his accomplishments but on his personality.  Thereby 
denying/refuting/ignoring those accomplishments.
Personally, I find most auto advertising insulting.  I cite recent 
Cadillac EV advertising that the Cadillac buyer can be "iconic" and all 
sorts of vague meaningless terms.  Tesla is highly admirable in choosing 
to let customers sell cars through honest evaluations.  With ZERO 
advertising.  A very significant side effect is that Tesla has near zero 
support from mainstream media.  That, because of the tremendous ad 
revenues coming from traditional auto makers and dealers.   I do wish 
Musk would be more circumspect in his public statements but I consider 
that flaw to be dwarfed by his accomplishments.  But, Musk is savaged by 
MSM and many are swayed by MSM, not really doing much independent thinking.
On FSD: as others have pointed out, it is an option.  It need not be 
bought or used if bought.  Despite all the negative MSM coverage, AP and 
FSD statistics are that a driver using it is far less likely to have an 
accident than a driver that does not use it.  I fail to understand how 
critics remain critical in the face of such facts.
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Willie via EV]

On 5/20/22 13:29, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:

On 19 May 2022 at 13:17, Willie via EV wrote:


I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without
Tesla and Musk.  That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward
both.

Hmm, I thought I'd answered that in past posts.  Sorry if it wasn't clear.
I'll try again, and I hope that others will have some thoughts too.


Well I remain bumfuzzled.

I just can not see from your viewpoint.  For decades, you and many of us 
here have striven to promote adoption of EVs.   In the past ~10 years, 
we have enjoyed astonishing success.  To most, it is clear that 
Tesla/Musk is the near sole cause.  Yet you try to argue that it would 
be happening in the absence of Tesla/Musk. And, you fault Musk not on 
his accomplishments but on his personality.  Thereby 
denying/refuting/ignoring those accomplishments.


Personally, I find most auto advertising insulting.  I cite recent 
Cadillac EV advertising that the Cadillac buyer can be "iconic" and all 
sorts of vague meaningless terms.  Tesla is highly admirable in choosing 
to let customers sell cars through honest evaluations.  With ZERO 
advertising.  A very significant side effect is that Tesla has near zero 
support from mainstream media.  That, because of the tremendous ad 
revenues coming from traditional auto makers and dealers.   I do wish 
Musk would be more circumspect in his public statements but I consider 
that flaw to be dwarfed by his accomplishments.  But, Musk is savaged by 
MSM and many are swayed by MSM, not really doing much independent thinking.


On FSD: as others have pointed out, it is an option.  It need not be 
bought or used if bought.  Despite all the negative MSM coverage, AP and 
FSD statistics are that a driver using it is far less likely to have an 
accident than a driver that does not use it.  I fail to understand how 
critics remain critical in the face of such facts.



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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 20 May 2022 at 18:50, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> Here's one of the reasons Tesla is better: lower drag coefficient ...
> 
> I wish Tesla would come out with an off road model. 

If they did, I almost guarantee that it wouldn't have as low a drag 
coefficient.  

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was 
 because they managed to spend less money. A man who could afford 
 fifty dollar boots had a pair that'd still be keeping his feet 
 dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford 
 cheap [ten dollar] boots would have spent a hundred dollars on 
 boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

  -- Terry Pratchett, "Men at Arms: The Play"
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

My wife and I truly love our 2019 Tesla Model 3 even though is has only a
standard range battery (220 miles). We have been considering selling the
car because of Musk. He may be a very intelligent engineer, but he is also
seems to be an idiot in many respects.
Bobby Keeland
Louisiana

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 1:50 PM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Here's one of the reasons Tesla is better: lower drag coefficient. Why
> does that matter ? At freeway speeds that means more range per kWh. And
> that means a smaller battery to be competitive. And that means less
> weight, which also increases range.
>
> Cd
> Tesla 3: 0.23
> Tesla Y: 0.23
> Tesla X: 0.24
>
> Subaru Solterra: 0.28
> Toyota bZ4X: 0.26
> Audi e-tron: 0.28
> volvo xc40: 0.34
> ford mustang: 0.30
> Chevy Bolt EUV: 0.31
> Huyndai Ioniq 5: 0.29
> Kia EV6: 0.28
> Mazda MX-30: 0.29
> Nissan Ariya: 0.30
> Volkswagen ID.4 : 0.28
>
> I wish Tesla would come out with an off road model. One that has
> hydraulic (or servo) suspension lifters so that it can cruise low on the
> freeway and then lift high for avoiding rocks and ruts on mountain
> roads. Add to that tires with enough sidewall for same. In spite of
> Musk, when they do, "I'm down."
>
> Peri
>
>
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "EV List Lackey via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "EV List Lackey" 
> Sent: 20-May-22 10:29:40
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch
>
> >On 19 May 2022 at 13:17, Willie via EV wrote:
> >
> >>  I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without
> >>  Tesla and Musk.  That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward
> >>  both.
> >
> >Hmm, I thought I'd answered that in past posts.  Sorry if it wasn't clear.
> >I'll try again, and I hope that others will have some thoughts too.
> >
> >I'm not a researcher, but I suspect that the negativity toward Tesla EVs
> >themselves results in large part from their over-sold autopilot.
> >
> >Some owners believe Musk when he says the car is self-driving, so they do
> >stupid stuff and get into wrecks.  Tesla being the new kid in town, and
> high
> >profile, the news media are all over it, so everybody hears about it.
> >
> >Reliability problems may also be a factor.  Consumer Reports says that the
> >Model X was dead last for reliability in their 2021 survey.  :-(
> >
> >---
> >
> >The negativity toward Musk is also easy to explain.  He's a truly
> despicable
> >person, arguably a sociopath.  He has no filters, and he acts out in
> public
> >like a sixth grade class clown demanding attention.
> >
> >Several years ago, a friend of mine mentioned that she admired the Tesla S
> >but couldn't afford one.  Recently she was talking about getting a new (or
> >newer) car and I asked if she was considering buying a Model 3.  "From
> THAT
> >man?  Oh, *GOD* no.  No, no, no."
> >
> >I see similar reactions all over the web. There are thousands of people
> >who'd love to have a Tesla, if they didn't have to give some of their
> money
> >to Musk to get it.
> >
> >Those are anecdotes, and as any statistician will tell you, the plural of
> >anecdote is not data.  So here's some data for you.
> >
> >A recent survey found that only 25% of Democrats thought Tesla was
> >trustworthy as a company.  The trust level from Republicans, who aren't
> >known as big EV buyers, was actually HIGHER at 27%.
> >
> >The main point here is the percentage, not the politics.  I remember the
> >raised eyebrows some years back when a survey found that only 43% of
> >Americans had a positive impression of the US automakers as a group.
> >
> >And now we have ~26% trust for Tesla.  Yikes.
> >
> >But Tesla sales keep rising!  I'd argue that that's *despite* Musk's and
> >Tesla's negative images.  I'm pretty sure that it's not because of them.
> >
> >Tesla DOES make really good EVs.  You can tell, because their owners seem
> to
> >love them despite their reliability problems, and autopilot's attempts to
> >murder them.
> >
> >Also, here in the US, the other automakers aren't really trying, so the
> >competition is feeble.
> >
> >FWIW, in Europe, where other automakers ARE trying, VW is hot on Tesla's
> >heels in sales.  They were less than 1% behind them for 2021.  If you
> count
> >Skoda EV sales, VW bested Tesla by 26%. It will be very interesting to see
> >how 2022 shakes out there.
&g

Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Here's one of the reasons Tesla is better: lower drag coefficient. Why 
does that matter ? At freeway speeds that means more range per kWh. And 
that means a smaller battery to be competitive. And that means less 
weight, which also increases range.


Cd
Tesla 3: 0.23
Tesla Y: 0.23
Tesla X: 0.24

Subaru Solterra: 0.28
Toyota bZ4X: 0.26
Audi e-tron: 0.28
volvo xc40: 0.34
ford mustang: 0.30
Chevy Bolt EUV: 0.31
Huyndai Ioniq 5: 0.29
Kia EV6: 0.28
Mazda MX-30: 0.29
Nissan Ariya: 0.30
Volkswagen ID.4 : 0.28

I wish Tesla would come out with an off road model. One that has 
hydraulic (or servo) suspension lifters so that it can cruise low on the 
freeway and then lift high for avoiding rocks and ruts on mountain 
roads. Add to that tires with enough sidewall for same. In spite of 
Musk, when they do, "I'm down."


Peri



<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "EV List Lackey via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "EV List Lackey" 
Sent: 20-May-22 10:29:40
Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch


On 19 May 2022 at 13:17, Willie via EV wrote:


 I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without
 Tesla and Musk.  That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward
 both.


Hmm, I thought I'd answered that in past posts.  Sorry if it wasn't clear.
I'll try again, and I hope that others will have some thoughts too.

I'm not a researcher, but I suspect that the negativity toward Tesla EVs
themselves results in large part from their over-sold autopilot.

Some owners believe Musk when he says the car is self-driving, so they do
stupid stuff and get into wrecks.  Tesla being the new kid in town, and high
profile, the news media are all over it, so everybody hears about it.

Reliability problems may also be a factor.  Consumer Reports says that the
Model X was dead last for reliability in their 2021 survey.  :-(

---

The negativity toward Musk is also easy to explain.  He's a truly despicable
person, arguably a sociopath.  He has no filters, and he acts out in public
like a sixth grade class clown demanding attention.

Several years ago, a friend of mine mentioned that she admired the Tesla S
but couldn't afford one.  Recently she was talking about getting a new (or
newer) car and I asked if she was considering buying a Model 3.  "From THAT
man?  Oh, *GOD* no.  No, no, no."

I see similar reactions all over the web. There are thousands of people
who'd love to have a Tesla, if they didn't have to give some of their money
to Musk to get it.

Those are anecdotes, and as any statistician will tell you, the plural of
anecdote is not data.  So here's some data for you.

A recent survey found that only 25% of Democrats thought Tesla was
trustworthy as a company.  The trust level from Republicans, who aren't
known as big EV buyers, was actually HIGHER at 27%.

The main point here is the percentage, not the politics.  I remember the
raised eyebrows some years back when a survey found that only 43% of
Americans had a positive impression of the US automakers as a group.

And now we have ~26% trust for Tesla.  Yikes.

But Tesla sales keep rising!  I'd argue that that's *despite* Musk's and
Tesla's negative images.  I'm pretty sure that it's not because of them.

Tesla DOES make really good EVs.  You can tell, because their owners seem to
love them despite their reliability problems, and autopilot's attempts to
murder them.

Also, here in the US, the other automakers aren't really trying, so the
competition is feeble.

FWIW, in Europe, where other automakers ARE trying, VW is hot on Tesla's
heels in sales.  They were less than 1% behind them for 2021.  If you count
Skoda EV sales, VW bested Tesla by 26%. It will be very interesting to see
how 2022 shakes out there.

Sorry, I've wandered off topic here.  My point is that there's no mystery at
all about the negative attitudes toward Tesla and Elon Musk.  They're caused
by Tesla and Elon Musk.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
 I found one day in school a boy of medium size ill-treating
 a smaller boy. I expostulated, but he replied: "The bigs hit
 me, so I hit the babies; that's fair." In these words he
 epitomized the history of the human race.

-- Bertrand Russell, "Education and the Social Order"
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 19 May 2022 at 13:17, Willie via EV wrote:

> I find it impossible to believe we would be where we are now without
> Tesla and Musk.  That is why I am so bumfuzzled by negativism toward
> both. 

Hmm, I thought I'd answered that in past posts.  Sorry if it wasn't clear.  
I'll try again, and I hope that others will have some thoughts too.  

I'm not a researcher, but I suspect that the negativity toward Tesla EVs 
themselves results in large part from their over-sold autopilot.  

Some owners believe Musk when he says the car is self-driving, so they do 
stupid stuff and get into wrecks.  Tesla being the new kid in town, and high 
profile, the news media are all over it, so everybody hears about it.  

Reliability problems may also be a factor.  Consumer Reports says that the 
Model X was dead last for reliability in their 2021 survey.  :-(  

---

The negativity toward Musk is also easy to explain.  He's a truly despicable 
person, arguably a sociopath.  He has no filters, and he acts out in public 
like a sixth grade class clown demanding attention.

Several years ago, a friend of mine mentioned that she admired the Tesla S 
but couldn't afford one.  Recently she was talking about getting a new (or 
newer) car and I asked if she was considering buying a Model 3.  "From THAT 
man?  Oh, *GOD* no.  No, no, no."

I see similar reactions all over the web. There are thousands of people 
who'd love to have a Tesla, if they didn't have to give some of their money 
to Musk to get it.

Those are anecdotes, and as any statistician will tell you, the plural of 
anecdote is not data.  So here's some data for you.  

A recent survey found that only 25% of Democrats thought Tesla was 
trustworthy as a company.  The trust level from Republicans, who aren't 
known as big EV buyers, was actually HIGHER at 27%.

The main point here is the percentage, not the politics.  I remember the 
raised eyebrows some years back when a survey found that only 43% of 
Americans had a positive impression of the US automakers as a group. 

And now we have ~26% trust for Tesla.  Yikes.

But Tesla sales keep rising!  I'd argue that that's *despite* Musk's and 
Tesla's negative images.  I'm pretty sure that it's not because of them.

Tesla DOES make really good EVs.  You can tell, because their owners seem to 
love them despite their reliability problems, and autopilot's attempts to 
murder them.

Also, here in the US, the other automakers aren't really trying, so the 
competition is feeble.

FWIW, in Europe, where other automakers ARE trying, VW is hot on Tesla's 
heels in sales.  They were less than 1% behind them for 2021.  If you count 
Skoda EV sales, VW bested Tesla by 26%. It will be very interesting to see 
how 2022 shakes out there.

Sorry, I've wandered off topic here.  My point is that there's no mystery at 
all about the negative attitudes toward Tesla and Elon Musk.  They're caused 
by Tesla and Elon Musk.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 I found one day in school a boy of medium size ill-treating 
 a smaller boy. I expostulated, but he replied: "The bigs hit 
 me, so I hit the babies; that's fair." In these words he 
 epitomized the history of the human race.

-- Bertrand Russell, "Education and the Social Order"
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 5/19/22 10:44, jamie via EV wrote:

But to claim the LEAF was immediately "abandoned" as a product would be 
a stretch as Nissan has added features, changed the battery tech and 
increased the range over successive model years.


"Idiosyncrasies and workarounds" is a subjective judgement that could be 
leveled at any car I've ever driven.


Having disassembled a 2013 leaf (selling the parts off after I harvested 
the battery modules for my S-10 conversion), and owning/driving a 2015 
Leaf, I've been quite happy with the Leaf.


Yes, there are a few things that could be improved, but it has been rock 
solid reliable for me. [I can't comment on the 2nd gen leafyet...but 
when buying a new electric vehicle, I will definitely be considering the 
2nd Gen leaf Plus.]


Jay


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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Willie via EV]

On 5/19/22 13:09, EV List Lackey via EV wrote

You can't stomach the idea of buying a GM product after what they did to the
EV1?  That's OK too.
GM's primary sin was not what they did to EV1.  But, what they did to 
NiMH.  One might argue that they had every right to bury both but NiMH 
was, by far, farther reaching and more damaging to the EV Revolution.

Really, just 15 years ago, who would have thought it?
I completely agree and am suitably surprised.  And who/what is 
responsible for the current situation?   I find it impossible to believe 
we would be where we are now without Tesla and Musk.  That is why I am 
so bumfuzzled by negativism toward both.


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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 19 May 2022 at 8:44, jamie via EV wrote:

> "Idiosyncrasies and workarounds" is a subjective judgement that could be
> leveled at any car I've ever driven. We all might feel we could do better than
> the car companies in a variety of ways. 

An astute observation. When it comes to choices, they're always subjective 
to one extent or another.

And it seems to be part of the human experience to glom onto our choices - 
diet, politics, vehicle, whatever - and defend them to near-death from 
anyone seen as "attacking" them.

In vehicles, Tesla seems to be especially polarizing.  My observation has 
been that there isn't much in the middle - people either love them almost 
unconditionally, or they despise them.  (A significant chunk of the latter, 
though not all, is not so much dislike of the car itself, as it is revulsion 
at Elon Musk's erratic, juvenile behavior.)

We should forget those squabbles, and concentrate instead on the fact that 
we actually have CHOICES in production EVs - choices in brands, models, body 
styles.

You don't like Nissan's customer service?  Fine.

You don't want a Tesla because of their "autopilot," or because you can't 
stand Elon Musk?  No problem.

You can't stomach the idea of buying a GM product after what they did to the 
EV1?  That's OK too.

Now granted, there isn't a lot of EV choice here for those of us who like 
true subcompacts.  (It's much better in Europe, but that's also true in 
ICEVs.)

However, you can buy an EV from Audi, Volvo, Porsche, Hyundai, Ford, Jaguar, 
BMW, Mazda, VW, Mercedes, Kia, and a few other marques that are just getting 
started in the US.

Really, just 15 years ago, who would have thought it?

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 All we learn from history is history repeats.
 
  -- Andrew Ratshin
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[jamie via EV]

To be sure (as Willie so often reminds us in many LEAF threads), 
Nissan's 2011 model LEAF had some battery issues for some users 
especially in hot climates, and their lack of support on that issue has 
been worthy of criticism.


But to claim the LEAF was immediately "abandoned" as a product would be 
a stretch as Nissan has added features, changed the battery tech and 
increased the range over successive model years.


"Idiosyncrasies and workarounds" is a subjective judgement that could be 
leveled at any car I've ever driven. We all might feel we could do 
better than the car companies in a variety of ways. For example, the 
Tesla Model 3 lacks a common dashboard and forces the driver's eye to 
the central display - good idea or poor design? You decide.


Cheers,
 -Jamie


On 5/19/22 8:17 AM, Willie via EV wrote:


On 5/19/22 09:33, Jay Summet via EV wrote:



On 5/19/22 01:00, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
There's no way (at least that I'm aware of) to override [the charge 
timer]. It's plain idiotic.




On my 2015 leaf, there is a dash button "Charge Timer Off" (it's an 
icon with a sorta clock and plug with the word "Off"). If you want to 
charge manually, you plug in the car, and THEN push that button, and 
it will charge normally that one time.


It is annoying in that you can't press it when getting out of the 
car...you have to go around to the front, plug in (the three top of 
dash lights will light up in a "follow" pattern one by one to indicate 
that the chaging timer is active) and then you have to open the driver 
door again to push the button, at which point you'll hear the clicks 
of the battery contactors engaging and the charging lights will go 
into their normally "charging in progress" mode.


An observation:


These idiosyncrasies and work arounds due to poor design on Leafs would 
be entirely forgivable had Nissan been committed to customer support and 
making incremental improvements.  Instead, Nissan mostly abandoned the 
Leaf and forced early adopters to sue for relief from the poor battery 
design.  On the plus side, this group of converters has greatly 
benefited from the cheap used battery supply due to the low value of 
used Leafs.


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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Willie via EV]

On 5/19/22 09:33, Jay Summet via EV wrote:



On 5/19/22 01:00, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
There's no way (at least that I'm aware of) to override [the charge 
timer]. It's plain idiotic.




On my 2015 leaf, there is a dash button "Charge Timer Off" (it's an 
icon with a sorta clock and plug with the word "Off"). If you want to 
charge manually, you plug in the car, and THEN push that button, and 
it will charge normally that one time.


It is annoying in that you can't press it when getting out of the 
car...you have to go around to the front, plug in (the three top of 
dash lights will light up in a "follow" pattern one by one to indicate 
that the chaging timer is active) and then you have to open the driver 
door again to push the button, at which point you'll hear the clicks 
of the battery contactors engaging and the charging lights will go 
into their normally "charging in progress" mode.


An observation:


These idiosyncrasies and work arounds due to poor design on Leafs would 
be entirely forgivable had Nissan been committed to customer support and 
making incremental improvements.  Instead, Nissan mostly abandoned the 
Leaf and forced early adopters to sue for relief from the poor battery 
design.  On the plus side, this group of converters has greatly 
benefited from the cheap used battery supply due to the low value of 
used Leafs.


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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 5/19/22 01:00, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
There's no way (at least 
that I'm aware of) to override [the charge timer]. It's plain idiotic.




On my 2015 leaf, there is a dash button "Charge Timer Off" (it's an icon 
with a sorta clock and plug with the word "Off"). If you want to charge 
manually, you plug in the car, and THEN push that button, and it will 
charge normally that one time.


It is annoying in that you can't press it when getting out of the 
car...you have to go around to the front, plug in (the three top of dash 
lights will light up in a "follow" pattern one by one to indicate that 
the chaging timer is active) and then you have to open the driver door 
again to push the button, at which point you'll hear the clicks of the 
battery contactors engaging and the charging lights will go into their 
normally "charging in progress" mode.



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Jay Summet via EV]

If you leave every morning at the same time, the in-car / dash based 
"climate timer" makes it easy to have your vehicle turn on the HVAC 
system just before (for example) 8am. (at whatever settings you left it 
when you turned off the car, so you need to be sure to set it right 
before you leave...)


It does have an "on/off" by day, so you can tell it to not turn on for 
Sat/Sun (but can not set a different time for different days)


Jay



On 5/19/22 00:31, Otmar Lists Account via EV wrote:

Preconditioning, especially while charging is a fantastic benefit.

Sadly the Nissan Connect for Leaf was on 2G cellular, and there was an update 
to 3G, but now that is going away as well and there seems to be no 4G LTE 
upgrade.

Alternatively, people are using the OVMS to provide those functions and more 
with an app.

https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_nissanleaf/docs/index.html 


-Otmar


On May 18, 2022, at 7:18 PM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

The Leaf has an app that runs on your cellphone that can allow it to pre-heat 
or pre-cool the car interior while it is plugged in. You can also set a time to 
do this manually from the dash. Makes a HUGE difference in range if you can use 
this feature.

Easier than defeating the heater somehow. You also _really_ need the heater 
and/or air conditioning to defog the windshield. The blower alone just doesn't 
do it.

Bill D.

On 5/19/2022 8:48 AM, redscooter via EV wrote:

  on youtube there some  switch to modify so the heat does  not come on just 
the fan only .
My 2011 needs all the power it can. any exp with this ?
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[jamie via EV]

OK, I'll take your word for it that timed charging isn't a good solution 
for you Peri. But perhaps the suggestion could be helpful for the OP, 
who BTW seemed more concerned with timed preconditioning.


Using timers via the car itself has not been a problem for us (2013 SV). 
We only set the charge or conditioning timers if we need one or both of 
them, but turn them off after a drive if we don't need them again. We do 
it from the car itself while we're in it, not via an app.


Charging overnight and charging again after a morning drive would not be 
a problem for us, with or without using a timer. And again, no internet 
connection or app required.


BTW there's a switch on the dash that forces the car to to start 
charging immediately even if a timer is set. Perhaps that may help. 
Here's a demonstration:


 www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZF0nKHdOZE

Cheers,
 -Jamie



On 5/18/22 11:00 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
I tried the timed charging a long time ago. Bad idea. If you set it to 
charge overnight, for example, but need to go out in the afternoon after 
a morning drive, you'll be in trouble ! That is, you have to reprogram 
the damned thing each time you want to charge. There's no way (at least 
that I'm aware of) to override. It's plain idiotic.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "jamie via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "jamie" 
Sent: 18-May-22 21:44:53
Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch



Another option, which has been useful for us, is to use the LEAF's 
built-in separate timed settings for both charging and 
preconditioning. With those settings an internet connection is not 
required.


Cheers,
 -Jamie


On 5/18/22 10:31 PM, Otmar Lists Account via EV wrote:

Preconditioning, especially while charging is a fantastic benefit.

Sadly the Nissan Connect for Leaf was on 2G cellular, and there was 
an update to 3G, but now that is going away as well and there seems 
to be no 4G LTE upgrade.


Alternatively, people are using the OVMS to provide those functions 
and more with an app.


https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_nissanleaf/docs/index.html 
<https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_nissanleaf/docs/index.html> 



-Otmar

On May 18, 2022, at 7:18 PM, Bill Dube via EV  
wrote:


The Leaf has an app that runs on your cellphone that can allow it to 
pre-heat or pre-cool the car interior while it is plugged in. You 
can also set a time to do this manually from the dash. Makes a HUGE 
difference in range if you can use this feature.


Easier than defeating the heater somehow. You also _really_ need the 
heater and/or air conditioning to defog the windshield. The blower 
alone just doesn't do it.


Bill D.

On 5/19/2022 8:48 AM, redscooter via EV wrote:
  on youtube there some  switch to modify so the heat does  not 
come on just the fan only .

My 2011 needs all the power it can. any exp with this ?
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 18 May 2022 at 21:31, Otmar Lists Account via EV wrote:

> Alternatively, people are using the OVMS to provide those functions and more
> with an app.

Otmar, that's most interesting.  Thank you for posting it.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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 Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong 
 impulse to see it tried on him personally.

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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I tried the timed charging a long time ago. Bad idea. If you set it to 
charge overnight, for example, but need to go out in the afternoon after 
a morning drive, you'll be in trouble ! That is, you have to reprogram 
the damned thing each time you want to charge. There's no way (at least 
that I'm aware of) to override. It's plain idiotic.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "jamie via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "jamie" 
Sent: 18-May-22 21:44:53
Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch



Another option, which has been useful for us, is to use the LEAF's built-in 
separate timed settings for both charging and preconditioning. With those 
settings an internet connection is not required.

Cheers,
 -Jamie


On 5/18/22 10:31 PM, Otmar Lists Account via EV wrote:

Preconditioning, especially while charging is a fantastic benefit.

Sadly the Nissan Connect for Leaf was on 2G cellular, and there was an update 
to 3G, but now that is going away as well and there seems to be no 4G LTE 
upgrade.

Alternatively, people are using the OVMS to provide those functions and more 
with an app.

https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_nissanleaf/docs/index.html 
<https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_nissanleaf/docs/index.html>

-Otmar


On May 18, 2022, at 7:18 PM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

The Leaf has an app that runs on your cellphone that can allow it to pre-heat 
or pre-cool the car interior while it is plugged in. You can also set a time to 
do this manually from the dash. Makes a HUGE difference in range if you can use 
this feature.

Easier than defeating the heater somehow. You also _really_ need the heater 
and/or air conditioning to defog the windshield. The blower alone just doesn't 
do it.

Bill D.

On 5/19/2022 8:48 AM, redscooter via EV wrote:

  on youtube there some  switch to modify so the heat does  not come on just 
the fan only .
My 2011 needs all the power it can. any exp with this ?
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 19 May 2022 at 14:18, Bill Dube via EV wrote:

> ou also _really_ need the heater and/or air conditioning to defog the
> windshield. The blower alone just doesn't do it. 

Bill's spot on.  Ask anyone who's ever driven a Comuta-Car. :-\

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 It is well known (Potts, 2014; Catcher, 2014) that the internet
 is made of cats. The net is a series of tubes (Stevens, 2006) 
 through which cats carry information in packets (Butterworth, 
 2011). The failure modes have been less well studied. Several 
 exist, but to date the most researched are fracture, disjunc-
 tion, and joule-based disruption. FRACTURE causes complete 
 regional internet failure. It occurs when construction or other 
 human activity severs or collapses an underground tunnel through 
 which the cats travel. The symptom of DISJUNCTION is high lat-
 ency; the usual cause is hooligans placing containers of tuna or 
 cream at tunnel junctions. Data corruption results from JOULE-
 BASED DISRUPTION, caused by the static charge that accumulates
 as long-haired cats speed through the tunnels. This shocks the 
 cats, who drop their packets.

  -- Lolapin (2020)
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[jamie via EV]

Another option, which has been useful for us, is to use the LEAF's 
built-in separate timed settings for both charging and preconditioning. 
With those settings an internet connection is not required.


Cheers,
 -Jamie


On 5/18/22 10:31 PM, Otmar Lists Account via EV wrote:

Preconditioning, especially while charging is a fantastic benefit.

Sadly the Nissan Connect for Leaf was on 2G cellular, and there was an update 
to 3G, but now that is going away as well and there seems to be no 4G LTE 
upgrade.

Alternatively, people are using the OVMS to provide those functions and more 
with an app.

https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_nissanleaf/docs/index.html 


-Otmar


On May 18, 2022, at 7:18 PM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

The Leaf has an app that runs on your cellphone that can allow it to pre-heat 
or pre-cool the car interior while it is plugged in. You can also set a time to 
do this manually from the dash. Makes a HUGE difference in range if you can use 
this feature.

Easier than defeating the heater somehow. You also _really_ need the heater 
and/or air conditioning to defog the windshield. The blower alone just doesn't 
do it.

Bill D.

On 5/19/2022 8:48 AM, redscooter via EV wrote:

  on youtube there some  switch to modify so the heat does  not come on just 
the fan only .
My 2011 needs all the power it can. any exp with this ?
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Otmar Lists Account via EV]

Preconditioning, especially while charging is a fantastic benefit. 

Sadly the Nissan Connect for Leaf was on 2G cellular, and there was an update 
to 3G, but now that is going away as well and there seems to be no 4G LTE 
upgrade. 

Alternatively, people are using the OVMS to provide those functions and more 
with an app. 

https://docs.openvehicles.com/en/latest/components/vehicle_nissanleaf/docs/index.html
 


-Otmar

> On May 18, 2022, at 7:18 PM, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
> 
> The Leaf has an app that runs on your cellphone that can allow it to pre-heat 
> or pre-cool the car interior while it is plugged in. You can also set a time 
> to do this manually from the dash. Makes a HUGE difference in range if you 
> can use this feature.
> 
> Easier than defeating the heater somehow. You also _really_ need the heater 
> and/or air conditioning to defog the windshield. The blower alone just 
> doesn't do it.
> 
> Bill D.
> 
> On 5/19/2022 8:48 AM, redscooter via EV wrote:
>>  on youtube there some  switch to modify so the heat does  not come on just 
>> the fan only .
>> My 2011 needs all the power it can. any exp with this ?
>> ___
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>> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Bill Dube via EV]

The Leaf has an app that runs on your cellphone that can allow it to 
pre-heat or pre-cool the car interior while it is plugged in. You can 
also set a time to do this manually from the dash. Makes a HUGE 
difference in range if you can use this feature.


Easier than defeating the heater somehow. You also _really_ need the 
heater and/or air conditioning to defog the windshield. The blower alone 
just doesn't do it.


Bill D.

On 5/19/2022 8:48 AM, redscooter via EV wrote:
 on youtube there some  switch to modify so the heat does  not come on 
just the fan only .

My 2011 needs all the power it can. any exp with this ?
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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Otmar Lists Account via EV]

There are more details on 3 ways to do this here. Probably still helpful 
despite many image links being broken. 
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=11412 

-Otmar

> On May 18, 2022, at 1:48 PM, redscooter via EV  wrote:
> 
> on youtube there some  switch to modify so the heat does  not come on just 
> the fan only .
> My 2011 needs all the power it can. any exp with this ?
> __

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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[EV List Lackey via EV]

On 18 May 2022 at 13:48, redscooter via EV wrote:

> modify so the heat does  not come on

Maybe this is a dumb question, since I know nothing of Leaves - but could 
you just pull the fuse for the heat?

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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[EVDL] leaf heater switch

[redscooter via EV]

 on youtube there some  switch to modify so the heat does  not come on 
just the fan only .

My 2011 needs all the power it can. any exp with this ?
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