Re: A mirror of the universe.
Hi Roger, Hope everything is fine with Sandy. On 29 Oct 2012, at 20:21, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal I think you're right. Anyway, I've since decided that the numbers have to be simply a priori. Like the pre-established (a priori) Harmony. I am OK with this. Note that it is mysterious, but that mystery can be explained as being necessarily mysterious. We can't explain our intuition of numbers without using our intuition of numbers. It is an irreducible mystery, but then nobody doubt them, and they are a good starting point. Comp explains conceptually, and even quantitatively (but there are many open problems) how the coupling consciousness/ physical-reality appears from just the numbers (and the association of consciousness to *some* computation, but this can be eliminated in terms of statistics on first person relative memories). Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/29/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-29, 13:49:33 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 29 Oct 2012, at 17:34, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal OK, let's suppose that the numbers can be considered as ideas in the mind of the One or the Supreme monad, which is the monad for the universe. Then the universe would be the corporeal body. Or something like that. Hmm... I don't think this can work. The supreme monads can only dream, the physical universe is when many universal numbers shared their dreams, in some manner. There is no ultimate corporeal body, at least not in the 'usual' sense, as some collection of dreams might point on something very similar. It is complex to explain the picture from scratch. It is simpler to get it by oneself by doing the reasoning. We will see. The supreme monad, as you define it, is just the 'man', or the L?ian universal machine (man is used in a very large but precise sense, it includes plausibly the jumping spiders). You have 8 hypostases: God Man Divine-Man Soul Intelligible matter Divine intelligible Matter Sensible Matter Divine Sensible Matter You supreme monad might be played by the Man or the Divine-Man, or Divine-Intellect (it is Plato's No?). Read some of my papers perhaps, but you might need to study a bit of logic and computer science for this. Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/29/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-29, 11:54:20 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 28 Oct 2012, at 23:31, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal I still haven't sorted the issue of numbers out. I suppose I ought to do some research in my Leibniz books. That's OK, but eventually you have to look inward, and see what you think. the solution is in your head, even if Leibniz can help you. Aside from that, monads have to be attached to corporeal bodies, Intensional numbers needs some universal numbers around to make sense. basically the extensional number is the corporeal bodies. They just take the usual shape, when the u number emerges from all computations, apparently. and numbers aren't like that. They are. You can say that a game of life pattern does not look like a number too, but this is just an appearance. I find the following unsatisfactory, but since numbers are like ideas, they can be in the minds of individual homunculi in individual monads, but that doesn't sound satisfactoriy to me. Not universakl enough. I don't get your point. I think you should study the theory of universal machine. I explain a bit of this on the FOAR list. My best guess for now is that the supreme monad (the One) undoubtedly somehow possesses the numbers. The supreme monad might be played by the universal number, but is not the one (God, arithmetical truth). Universal numbers are more the Plotinus' man. They are sigma_1 complete. God, is sigma_i complete for all i. Hurricane coming. Be careful, Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/28/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-27, 09:31:59 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:44, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward
Re: A mirror of the universe.
On 28 Oct 2012, at 23:11, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/28/2012 10:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Oct 2012, at 17:02, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/27/2012 10:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:30, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 8:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. Dear Roger, Yes, but the idea is that the mirroring that each monad does of each other's percepts (not the universe per se!) is not an exact isomorphism between the monads. There has to be a difference between monads or else there is only One. Right, and in the arithmetical Indra Net, all universal numbers are different. And the, by the first person indeterminacy it is like there is a competition between all of them to bring your most probable next instant of life. It looks that, at least on the sharable part, there are big winners, like this or that quantum hamiltonian. But we have to explain them through the arithmetical Net structure, if we want separate properly the quanta from the qualia. Bruno Dear Bruno, A slightly technical question. In the arithmetic IndraNet idea, what plays the role of the surface that is reflective? reread carefully the UDA. You should understand by yourself that the surface role is played by the first person experience. This is due to the fact that the experience are UD-delay invariant, and is a limiting sum on the infinite works of an infinite collection of universal numbers. Dear Bruno, My worry is that you seem to assume the equivalent of an absolute observer that acts to distinguish the content of the first person experience (1p) from each other, as simply an inherent difference between universal numbers. Not at all. Where? On the contrary, it is the difference of the inputs receive by identical universal numbers which will trigger a branching experience. It is exactly like the WM scenario, but with the UD protocol (step seven). Given that one number can be used to code for other numbers, ala Godel numbering schemes, how is it that universal numbers can be said to have any thing unique that would identify them in a non- trivial way? ? From the first person perspective no intensional number (the i in phi_i) can be sure of its relative code, but this is normal in the comp theory. No machine can know which machine she is, but this does not prevent them of having experiences, and this with the right measure. How do we get the numbers to appear separated from each other? This comes from elementary arithmetic, although I am not sure why you are using of the word appear instead of are. Are? To who are they different? To God, if you insist. The difference between 17 and 2 is 15, independently of any observer or universe. Your idea here seems to depend on a pre-established harmony like situation. No, it depends on elementary arithmetic, like all theories which use the number. If you believe that 17 -2 = 15 is a function of observer, I will ask you in which theory (of number and observer?. I will ask you for describing the functional dependence. You answer will make sense only in a theory which do no more depend on the observer. If you doubt that 17-2=15 is absolute, I am not sure any theory you can give to me will make sense. I'm afraid your remark might validly demolish the whole of the science enterprise. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A mirror of the universe.
On 28 Oct 2012, at 23:31, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal I still haven't sorted the issue of numbers out. I suppose I ought to do some research in my Leibniz books. That's OK, but eventually you have to look inward, and see what you think. the solution is in your head, even if Leibniz can help you. Aside from that, monads have to be attached to corporeal bodies, Intensional numbers needs some universal numbers around to make sense. basically the extensional number is the corporeal bodies. They just take the usual shape, when the u number emerges from all computations, apparently. and numbers aren't like that. They are. You can say that a game of life pattern does not look like a number too, but this is just an appearance. I find the following unsatisfactory, but since numbers are like ideas, they can be in the minds of individual homunculi in individual monads, but that doesn't sound satisfactoriy to me. Not universakl enough. I don't get your point. I think you should study the theory of universal machine. I explain a bit of this on the FOAR list. My best guess for now is that the supreme monad (the One) undoubtedly somehow possesses the numbers. The supreme monad might be played by the universal number, but is not the one (God, arithmetical truth). Universal numbers are more the Plotinus' man. They are sigma_1 complete. God, is sigma_i complete for all i. Hurricane coming. Be careful, Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/28/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-27, 09:31:59 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:44, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. In arithmetic, each universal numbers mirrors all other universal numbers. The tiny Turing universal part of arithmetical truth is already a dynamical Indra Net. Your monad really looks like the (universal) intensional numbers. Bruno -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: A mirror of the universe.
Hi Bruno Marchal OK, let's suppose that the numbers can be considered as ideas in the mind of the One or the Supreme monad, which is the monad for the universe. Then the universe would be the corporeal body. Or something like that. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/29/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-29, 11:54:20 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 28 Oct 2012, at 23:31, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal I still haven't sorted the issue of numbers out. I suppose I ought to do some research in my Leibniz books. That's OK, but eventually you have to look inward, and see what you think. the solution is in your head, even if Leibniz can help you. Aside from that, monads have to be attached to corporeal bodies, Intensional numbers needs some universal numbers around to make sense. basically the extensional number is the corporeal bodies. They just take the usual shape, when the u number emerges from all computations, apparently. and numbers aren't like that. They are. You can say that a game of life pattern does not look like a number too, but this is just an appearance. I find the following unsatisfactory, but since numbers are like ideas, they can be in the minds of individual homunculi in individual monads, but that doesn't sound satisfactoriy to me. Not universakl enough. I don't get your point. I think you should study the theory of universal machine. I explain a bit of this on the FOAR list. My best guess for now is that the supreme monad (the One) undoubtedly somehow possesses the numbers. The supreme monad might be played by the universal number, but is not the one (God, arithmetical truth). Universal numbers are more the Plotinus' man. They are sigma_1 complete. God, is sigma_i complete for all i. Hurricane coming. Be careful, Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/28/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-27, 09:31:59 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:44, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. In arithmetic, each universal numbers mirrors all other universal numbers. The tiny Turing universal part of arithmetical truth is already a dynamical Indra Net. Your monad really looks like the (universal) intensional numbers. Bruno -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email
Re: A mirror of the universe.
On 29 Oct 2012, at 17:34, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal OK, let's suppose that the numbers can be considered as ideas in the mind of the One or the Supreme monad, which is the monad for the universe. Then the universe would be the corporeal body. Or something like that. Hmm... I don't think this can work. The supreme monads can only dream, the physical universe is when many universal numbers shared their dreams, in some manner. There is no ultimate corporeal body, at least not in the 'usual' sense, as some collection of dreams might point on something very similar. It is complex to explain the picture from scratch. It is simpler to get it by oneself by doing the reasoning. We will see. The supreme monad, as you define it, is just the 'man', or the Löbian universal machine (man is used in a very large but precise sense, it includes plausibly the jumping spiders). You have 8 hypostases: God Man Divine-Man Soul Intelligible matter Divine intelligible Matter Sensible Matter Divine Sensible Matter You supreme monad might be played by the Man or the Divine-Man, or Divine-Intellect (it is Plato's Noùs). Read some of my papers perhaps, but you might need to study a bit of logic and computer science for this. Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/29/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-29, 11:54:20 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 28 Oct 2012, at 23:31, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal I still haven't sorted the issue of numbers out. I suppose I ought to do some research in my Leibniz books. That's OK, but eventually you have to look inward, and see what you think. the solution is in your head, even if Leibniz can help you. Aside from that, monads have to be attached to corporeal bodies, Intensional numbers needs some universal numbers around to make sense. basically the extensional number is the corporeal bodies. They just take the usual shape, when the u number emerges from all computations, apparently. and numbers aren't like that. They are. You can say that a game of life pattern does not look like a number too, but this is just an appearance. I find the following unsatisfactory, but since numbers are like ideas, they can be in the minds of individual homunculi in individual monads, but that doesn't sound satisfactoriy to me. Not universakl enough. I don't get your point. I think you should study the theory of universal machine. I explain a bit of this on the FOAR list. My best guess for now is that the supreme monad (the One) undoubtedly somehow possesses the numbers. The supreme monad might be played by the universal number, but is not the one (God, arithmetical truth). Universal numbers are more the Plotinus' man. They are sigma_1 complete. God, is sigma_i complete for all i. Hurricane coming. Be careful, Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/28/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-27, 09:31:59 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:44, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. In arithmetic, each universal numbers mirrors all other universal numbers. The tiny Turing universal part of arithmetical truth is already a dynamical Indra Net. Your monad really looks like the (universal) intensional numbers. Bruno -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything- l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http
Re: Re: A mirror of the universe.
Hi Bruno Marchal I think you're right. Anyway, I've since decided that the numbers have to be simply a priori. Like the pre-established (a priori) Harmony. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/29/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-29, 13:49:33 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 29 Oct 2012, at 17:34, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal OK, let's suppose that the numbers can be considered as ideas in the mind of the One or the Supreme monad, which is the monad for the universe. Then the universe would be the corporeal body. Or something like that. Hmm... I don't think this can work. The supreme monads can only dream, the physical universe is when many universal numbers shared their dreams, in some manner. There is no ultimate corporeal body, at least not in the 'usual' sense, as some collection of dreams might point on something very similar. It is complex to explain the picture from scratch. It is simpler to get it by oneself by doing the reasoning. We will see. The supreme monad, as you define it, is just the 'man', or the L?ian universal machine (man is used in a very large but precise sense, it includes plausibly the jumping spiders). You have 8 hypostases: God Man Divine-Man Soul Intelligible matter Divine intelligible Matter Sensible Matter Divine Sensible Matter You supreme monad might be played by the Man or the Divine-Man, or Divine-Intellect (it is Plato's No?). Read some of my papers perhaps, but you might need to study a bit of logic and computer science for this. Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/29/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-29, 11:54:20 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 28 Oct 2012, at 23:31, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal I still haven't sorted the issue of numbers out. I suppose I ought to do some research in my Leibniz books. That's OK, but eventually you have to look inward, and see what you think. the solution is in your head, even if Leibniz can help you. Aside from that, monads have to be attached to corporeal bodies, Intensional numbers needs some universal numbers around to make sense. basically the extensional number is the corporeal bodies. They just take the usual shape, when the u number emerges from all computations, apparently. and numbers aren't like that. They are. You can say that a game of life pattern does not look like a number too, but this is just an appearance. I find the following unsatisfactory, but since numbers are like ideas, they can be in the minds of individual homunculi in individual monads, but that doesn't sound satisfactoriy to me. Not universakl enough. I don't get your point. I think you should study the theory of universal machine. I explain a bit of this on the FOAR list. My best guess for now is that the supreme monad (the One) undoubtedly somehow possesses the numbers. The supreme monad might be played by the universal number, but is not the one (God, arithmetical truth). Universal numbers are more the Plotinus' man. They are sigma_1 complete. God, is sigma_i complete for all i. Hurricane coming. Be careful, Bruno Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/28/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-27, 09:31:59 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:44, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. In arithmetic, each universal numbers mirrors all other universal numbers. The tiny Turing universal part of arithmetical truth is already a dynamical Indra Net. Your monad really looks like the (universal) intensional numbers. Bruno -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything- l
Re: A mirror of the universe.
On 27 Oct 2012, at 17:02, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/27/2012 10:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:30, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 8:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. Dear Roger, Yes, but the idea is that the mirroring that each monad does of each other's percepts (not the universe per se!) is not an exact isomorphism between the monads. There has to be a difference between monads or else there is only One. Right, and in the arithmetical Indra Net, all universal numbers are different. And the, by the first person indeterminacy it is like there is a competition between all of them to bring your most probable next instant of life. It looks that, at least on the sharable part, there are big winners, like this or that quantum hamiltonian. But we have to explain them through the arithmetical Net structure, if we want separate properly the quanta from the qualia. Bruno Dear Bruno, A slightly technical question. In the arithmetic IndraNet idea, what plays the role of the surface that is reflective? reread carefully the UDA. You should understand by yourself that the surface role is played by the first person experience. This is due to the fact that the experience are UD-delay invariant, and is a limiting sum on the infinite works of an infinite collection of universal numbers. How do we get the numbers to appear separated from each other? This comes from elementary arithmetic, although I am not sure why you are using of the word appear instead of are. This seems necessary for the appearance of physical space. It is necessary to have anything. Bruno http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A mirror of the universe.
On 10/28/2012 10:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Oct 2012, at 17:02, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/27/2012 10:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:30, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 8:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. Dear Roger, Yes, but the idea is that the mirroring that each monad does of each other's percepts (not the universe per se!) is not an exact isomorphism between the monads. There has to be a difference between monads or else there is only One. Right, and in the arithmetical Indra Net, all universal numbers are different. And the, by the first person indeterminacy it is like there is a competition between all of them to bring your most probable next instant of life. It looks that, at least on the sharable part, there are big winners, like this or that quantum hamiltonian. But we have to explain them through the arithmetical Net structure, if we want separate properly the quanta from the qualia. Bruno Dear Bruno, A slightly technical question. In the arithmetic IndraNet idea, what plays the role of the surface that is reflective? reread carefully the UDA. You should understand by yourself that the surface role is played by the first person experience. This is due to the fact that the experience are UD-delay invariant, and is a limiting sum on the infinite works of an infinite collection of universal numbers. Dear Bruno, My worry is that you seem to assume the equivalent of an absolute observer that acts to distinguish the content of the first person experience (1p) from each other, as simply an inherent difference between universal numbers. Given that one number can be used to code for other numbers, ala Godel numbering schemes, how is it that universal numbers can be said to have any thing unique that would identify them in a non-trivial way? How do we get the numbers to appear separated from each other? This comes from elementary arithmetic, although I am not sure why you are using of the word appear instead of are. Are? To who are they different? Your idea here seems to depend on a pre-established harmony like situation. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: Re: A mirror of the universe.
Hi Bruno Marchal I still haven't sorted the issue of numbers out. I suppose I ought to do some research in my Leibniz books. Aside from that, monads have to be attached to corporeal bodies, and numbers aren't like that. I find the following unsatisfactory, but since numbers are like ideas, they can be in the minds of individual homunculi in individual monads, but that doesn't sound satisfactoriy to me. Not universakl enough. My best guess for now is that the supreme monad (the One) undoubtedly somehow possesses the numbers. Hurricane coming. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/28/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-10-27, 09:31:59 Subject: Re: A mirror of the universe. On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:44, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. In arithmetic, each universal numbers mirrors all other universal numbers. The tiny Turing universal part of arithmetical truth is already a dynamical Indra Net. Your monad really looks like the (universal) intensional numbers. Bruno -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A mirror of the universe.
On 26 Oct 2012, at 14:44, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. In arithmetic, each universal numbers mirrors all other universal numbers. The tiny Turing universal part of arithmetical truth is already a dynamical Indra Net. Your monad really looks like the (universal) intensional numbers. Bruno -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A mirror of the universe.
On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:30, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 8:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. Dear Roger, Yes, but the idea is that the mirroring that each monad does of each other's percepts (not the universe per se!) is not an exact isomorphism between the monads. There has to be a difference between monads or else there is only One. Right, and in the arithmetical Indra Net, all universal numbers are different. And the, by the first person indeterminacy it is like there is a competition between all of them to bring your most probable next instant of life. It looks that, at least on the sharable part, there are big winners, like this or that quantum hamiltonian. But we have to explain them through the arithmetical Net structure, if we want separate properly the quanta from the qualia. Bruno -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en . http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A mirror of the universe.
On 10/27/2012 10:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Oct 2012, at 20:30, Stephen P. King wrote: On 10/26/2012 8:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. Dear Roger, Yes, but the idea is that the mirroring that each monad does of each other's percepts (not the universe per se!) is not an exact isomorphism between the monads. There has to be a difference between monads or else there is only One. Right, and in the arithmetical Indra Net, all universal numbers are different. And the, by the first person indeterminacy it is like there is a competition between all of them to bring your most probable next instant of life. It looks that, at least on the sharable part, there are big winners, like this or that quantum hamiltonian. But we have to explain them through the arithmetical Net structure, if we want separate properly the quanta from the qualia. Bruno Dear Bruno, A slightly technical question. In the arithmetic IndraNet idea, what plays the role of the surface that is reflective? How do we get the numbers to appear separated from each other? This seems necessary for the appearance of physical space. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
Re: A mirror of the universe.
On 10/26/2012 8:44 AM, Roger Clough wrote: Dear Bruno and Alberto, I agree some what with both of you. As to the idea of a genetic algorithm can isolate anticipative programs, I think that anticipation is the analogue of inertia for computations, as Mach saw inertia. It is a relation between any one and the class of computations that it belongs to such that any incomplete string has a completion in the collections of others like it. This is like an error correction or compression mechanism. -- Onward! Stephen ROGER: For what it's worth--- like Mach's inertia, each monad mirrors the rest of the universe. Dear Roger, Yes, but the idea is that the mirroring that each monad does of each other's percepts (not the universe per se!) is not an exact isomorphism between the monads. There has to be a difference between monads or else there is only One. -- Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
