[FairfieldLife] Superlatives and platitudes
So I watched some of the David Lynch Weekend downloads. And, yes, some of it was pretty interesting, particularly when Lynch was talking about film. It wasn't so interesting whenever he started talking about TM and selling the product. But what bugged me was that blowhard Bob Roth. Every time he introduced someone they were either the greatest at whatever it was they were doing or just simply great human being. I am sick of superlatives and platitudes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
Remember that story I posted about a week ago which I entitled A Story for Judy and Barry? Neither of you commented on it. I thought it was trite and simplistic, actually, Rick, and not at all to the point. Neither Barry nor I is an old master... +++ Does I is sound right? Some of the modern English seems to be getting out of hand. N. Good question. Barry am can't be right, though. I had originally written are, but that's not correct, because neither/nor takes a singular verb. I can't think of any way to get around Barry am or I is. Suggestions? [Regarding Barry and myself], neither one of us is an ...+ Clunky, and the emphasis isn't quite right in context. Here, I've got it: Barry isn't an old master, and neither am I. Actually, I just flashed on it: Neither Barry nor I is an old master IS correct: Neither is an old master. The neither takes is. Because of filters, I've only been catching about half of this nitpickfest, but I should point out that NONE of the answers suggested so far have been correct, because 1) both protagonists are, in fact, OLD (one of them very old indeed), and 2) at least one of the protagonists *has* been certified as a 'master' in several different disciplines, in some cases on diplomas that he could hang on his wall if he was prone to doing that sort of thing. So it would seem that the accurate construction should be, (as spoken by Judy): Even though Barry may be an old master by some standards, I am not. None of this had any relationship to why I didn't like Rick's story; that was because it portrayed people who have control over their emotions...can't have that. -- Barry Wright, old master language person, delurking just long enough to help out... :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: snip Remember that story I posted about a week ago which I entitled A Story for Judy and Barry? Neither of you commented on it. I thought it was trite and simplistic, actually, Rick, and not at all to the point. Neither Barry nor I is an +++ Does I is sound right? Some of the modern English seems to be getting out of hand. N. Good question. Barry am can't be right, though. I had originally written are, but that's not correct, because neither/nor takes a singular verb. I can't think of any way to get around Barry am or I is. Suggestions? For some reason the best one I can think of with neither - nor is Neither is Barry nor am I, but I have no idea how that wrong order of subject and predicate sounds to native speakers of English... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Fundies slam TM Judge
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/112006e.asp Jody (Guruphiliac) comments quite rightly: That bulwark of spiritual ignorance impeding progress and cultural evolution, the American Family Association, is going after the judge who sentenced a crack-smoking vote defrauder to a course in TM#8482;. Actually, it's TMSM, or Transcendental Meditation Stress Management, and not affiliated with the Madharishi anymore.Leading the charge for the AFA is lawyer Brian Fahling:You've got a governmental actor who's ordering an individual to participate in something that perhaps may run contrary to their own particular beliefs and belief system. Still, the attorney says he is not really surprised by the judge's order because it is consistent with a larger trend toward secularization that is progressing in America.Wait a minute... The government is ordering an individual to participate in something that is being construed as a religious belief, yet the fact of this is evidence of the progressing secularization of America?We guess the guy is as uptight about his idea of religion as he looks in his photograph. http://www.agapepress.org/PhotoArchives/PhotoFiles/LoRes/BFahling_LoRes.jpg Who'da thunk that?What he means to say is that TM#8482; is the wrong religion. They all are... except his. There is no doubt the guy would be flipping cartwheels if the judge had sentenced the girl to attend a Southern Baptist church instead. It would have been much harsher outcome for the poor thing if you asked us. http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Getting 'Lost'
Last Christmas my brother gave me a DVD set of the first season of the TV series 'Lost.' Evil bastard. It's a weird soap opera, but as addicting (and as revelatory) as any other soap opera, if you allow it to be. I allowed it to be. I have a weakness for soap operas because they tend to portray the reality of most people's everyday lives *much* more accurately than the great works do. The great works are all about pretense and trying to see nobility in the stupid shit we do; soap operas are about *accepting* the stupid shit we do, laughing at it, and thus learning a little from it. Besides, 'Lost' is a TV show for which the 'pitch' was probably something along the lines of, Well... it's basically 'Survivor' meets 'X Files'...we'll get them hooked on the basic concept in the first season, and then *really* fuck with their minds in the next seasons... Their marketing ploy worked, at least on me. I've been waiting with 'bated breath for the second season to run in France, and unfortunately need to keep waiting, cuz it doesn't seem to be on the horizon anytime soon. But it is showing in the US, for those of you who need a good addiction to add to your lives. Here's a good review of the series, from (of all places) Tricycle, a respected Buddhist periodical: http://tricycle.com/issues/editors_pick/1899-1.html The reviewer's book, Cinema Nirvana: Enlightenment Lessons from the Movies, sounds worth looking into, too... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: snip Remember that story I posted about a week ago which I entitled A Story for Judy and Barry? Neither of you commented on it. I thought it was trite and simplistic, actually, Rick, and not at all to the point. Neither Barry nor I is an +++ Does I is sound right? Some of the modern English seems to be getting out of hand. N. Good question. Barry am can't be right, though. I had originally written are, but that's not correct, because neither/nor takes a singular verb. I can't think of any way to get around Barry am or I is. Suggestions? For some reason the best one I can think of with neither - nor is Neither is Barry nor am I, but I have no idea how that wrong order of subject and predicate sounds to native speakers of English... You probably know the formal rules of English grammar better than I do! We would never use that construction, but I couldn't possibly explain why. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: snip Remember that story I posted about a week ago which I entitled A Story for Judy and Barry? Neither of you commented on it. I thought it was trite and simplistic, actually, Rick, and not at all to the point. Neither Barry nor I is an +++ Does I is sound right? Some of the modern English seems to be getting out of hand. N. Good question. Barry am can't be right, though. I had originally written are, but that's not correct, because neither/nor takes a singular verb. I can't think of any way to get around Barry am or I is. Suggestions? [Regarding Barry and myself], neither one of us is an ...+ Clunky, and the emphasis isn't quite right in context. Here, I've got it: Barry isn't an old master, and neither am I. Actually, I just flashed on it: Neither Barry nor I is an old master IS correct: Neither is an old master. The neither takes is. Yes, neither has to take a singular verb, as I said above, but it just *sounds* peculiar. My knowledge of grammar is almost completely by ear; I had very little formal grammar training in school. My ear happens to be very good, but every now and then, even after being a professional editor for 30 years now, I run into an odd construction and get stumped because I lack that formal knowledge. If neither is the subject of the sentence, what is Barry nor I? Is it the object? If I said Neither of us, us would be the object, no? I guess with Neither Barry nor I, the of is understood--Neither of Barry nor I?? Uh... And old master is the predicate, right? I couldn't diagram a sentence if my life depended on it. Note to parents: Read to your kids!! Even if they get lousy grammar and spelling instruction in school, if you read to them constantly, and let them follow along as you read (once they're old enough), they'll pick up correct English more or less automatically. They may end up here and there with the kind of gaps I have, but that won't hold them back. If you start early enough and do it often enough--like every night before they go to bed--they'll probably be able to read before they're in first grade, without ever having been taught. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
While he's often right on, I think Jody (Guruphiliac) missed the boat on this one. While the lawyer in question may be Christian, what he's saying in his lawsuit is *correct*: it's fuckin' inappropriate for *any* judge *anywhere* to be able to compel *anyone* to practice *any* form of meditation or spiritual practice for *any* reason. Period. Maharishi never got this, IMO because he's a control freak who *already* believes that he should be able to run the lives of his teachers the way *he* feels they should be run. It's a short hop from believing that to believing that he has the right to mandate the lifestyle of everyone else in society. And he's on record as believing that he *does* have that right, and that TM *should* be mandated by governments. Talk about missing the point. Personally, I don't see that much difference between Maharishi's stance on this subject and that of the Ayatollahs in Iran or Afghanistan who wish to enforce Islam, or that of religious fanatics in every society and in every time who have felt they had the right to impose their beliefs on others. The real issue is freedom of choice with regard to one's spiritual or meditational practices. In my opinion, anyone who is willing to take that freedom away from someone, while claiming it's for their own good, is on the same level as the despot or dictator who would take away their physical freedom. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/112006e.asp Jody (Guruphiliac) comments quite rightly: That bulwark of spiritual ignorance impeding progress and cultural evolution, the American Family Association, is going after the judge who sentenced a crack-smoking vote defrauder to a course in TM#8482;. Actually, it's TMSM, or Transcendental Meditation Stress Management, and not affiliated with the Madharishi anymore.Leading the charge for the AFA is lawyer Brian Fahling:You've got a governmental actor who's ordering an individual to participate in something that perhaps may run contrary to their own particular beliefs and belief system. Still, the attorney says he is not really surprised by the judge's order because it is consistent with a larger trend toward secularization that is progressing in America.Wait a minute... The government is ordering an individual to participate in something that is being construed as a religious belief, yet the fact of this is evidence of the progressing secularization of America?We guess the guy is as uptight about his idea of religion as he looks in his photograph. http://www.agapepress.org/PhotoArchives/PhotoFiles/LoRes/BFahling_LoR es.jpg Who'da thunk that?What he means to say is that TM#8482; is the wrong religion. They all are... except his. There is no doubt the guy would be flipping cartwheels if the judge had sentenced the girl to attend a Southern Baptist church instead. It would have been much harsher outcome for the poor thing if you asked us. http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The pseudo pseudo Advaita of Aziz
The Dangers of Pseudo-advaita by Aziz on the proliferation of unqualified Satsang Service Providers (Similar material from Aziz, annotated and linked, can be found at The Wanderling's site, but without the additional material at the bottom) We would like to express our concern regarding the recent phenomenon of satsang- culture which in our opinion has impoverished seriously the Original Spirit of Advaita. These days many individuals, who have very little or no knowledge at all about the Process of Awakening, What does that mean 'little or no knowledge at all about the Process of Awakening'? Does it mean they can't be awakened, or does it mean they may be awakened, but know nothing about 'the process'. Here the author is already presuming that a path or method is required, which is against the original Advaita doctrine, that there can be no means, no 'doing' to deliver you at the 'goal' feel qualified to give satsang and lead other souls on the Path. Enlightenment has become very cheap these days. Nobody actually really knows what is the meaning of this term as it virtually means everything and nothing. Nowadays, it is sufficient to say I am awakened in order to give satsang. Sure, but that has always been like this in India. There has never been a general council to approve if someone is awakened or not. Awakening can just 'happen' for somebody completely illiterate, and, as the Avadhut Gita describes in its 2nd Chapter, this can be the teacher, on simply the acount of having realized. Because of the unverifiable nature of Enlightenment, this term has been much manipulated. Satsang has been Americanised. I'm sure if a German instead of a polish would have said this he would be accused of racism. And actual 'real' Advaita discounts any idea of national identity. Should we conclude from this that the author does not represent real advaita? In an average satsang-gathering everybody is laughing, showing signs of euphoric and unauthentic joy, Does this mean that laughing is forbidden in Advaita? Is showing signs of euphory a sign that somebody cannot be in bliss, or is bliss disregarded in original Advaita? the answer is a simple No. And how you know that joy is 'unauthentic'? while the teacher tries to look like he or she is in bliss. Just like a TV show. Again the unfounded assumption that everything is just a makeup or show Very few actually meditate. So what? Shankara never said that one should meditate. Even though nididhyasana is part of the Advaita scheme, Shankara himself never set it up as a separate practise. Why meditate if we are already all awakened? Well yes, meditation is alright if it is not taken to be a *condition* to enlightenment. This the 'Ajata' POV, there is no birth, so there is no happening. The moment you see Enlightenment as caused it is conditioned and not eternal. That IS the advaitic teaching. Shankara himself said that no action, no meditation, and no Mantra can set you free. But is this really Advaita? Like it or not, it is. You, Aziz, are falling back to a retrogate view. You maybe a yogi, a tantric, but you are certainly not an Advaitin. Is Advaita a poor repetition of a several slogans like There is nobody there, You are That, You are already awakened or There is no Path, etc? Advaita certainly is 'You are That' That's in the Upanishads. Its not a slogan, but the realization of the truth behind it. Has this anything to do with teaching of great masters like N. Maharaj or R. Maharshi? Ramana sat in caves for 20 years before he could be really complete. But he never adviced others to do so as well. He actually discouraged to take himself as a role-model. When people asked him if they should take sannyas to realize, he said it is not necessary. In his presence disciples had to meditate for months and years before they could receive from him the glimpse of the Self. Thats simply not true. There are innumerable accounts of people who at first sight of him had such a glimpse, which didn't mean that they were enlightened right away. Ramanas first approach was always immediate enlightenment, that is to realize that you are That already. If this did not work, as a second approach he had self-enquiry - Who am I?, and as a third approach he had traditional mantra-japa. Now the Advaita retrogates seem to want to reverse the order. This is even more clear with the example of Nisargadatta, who disallowed people to stay any time long around him. He simply advised people to understand 'I AM' and remember it and go away. It is true that New Millennium is a time of global awakening. But this awakening is mostly partial and relative to the level of most people's unconsciousness. Of course awakening is relative to the peoples consciousness (or uncounsciousnes). What a useless sentence! It was Jesus who said that there would be a time when many false teachers will teach in the name of Light. Gosh, now he invokes Jesus, is he
[FairfieldLife] Re: Getting 'Lost'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The reviewer's book, Cinema Nirvana: Enlightenment Lessons from the Movies, sounds worth looking into, too... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400049741/qid=1144849845/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-1423200-8312725?s=booksv=glancen=283155 Its by Dan Slutyer -- an early MIU TA (SB and FF) . The first review is by Dan Jackson, also an early MIU TA -- who according to Phil Glodberg who used to post here -- recently bacame a rabbi. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My knowledge of grammar is almost completely by ear Same here. My mom had excellent grammar, and I picked it up from her. As a result, I never learned the rules. I could talk good without them. I would say Neither Barry nor I are going to agree to that, or neither Barry nor I am inclined to agree. To me, neither/nor is treated like either/or, and verbs after or take the case of the closest noun, or whatever you call it. (Dave Barry's Mr. Language Person might call it a Nominative Predilection.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Getting 'Lost'
Since we're talking about movies, check out Baghdad Café. Everybody's has it if you're in town. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/bagdad_cafe/ Delightful movie. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Getting 'Lost'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Here's a good review of the series, from (of all places) Tricycle, a respected Buddhist periodical: http://tricycle.com/issues/editors_pick/1899-1.html Hell Freezes Over Department: That is a *terrific* review (well, review qua piece of writing; I've seen only a couple of episodes of Lost--but the review is so deliciously intriguing I may start watching it seriously). The reviewer's book, Cinema Nirvana: Enlightenment Lessons from the Movies, sounds worth looking into, too... After reading that review, I'll read anything else he's written. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- TurquoiseB wrote: it's fuckin' inappropriate for *any* judge *anywhere* to be able to compel *anyone* to practice *any* form of meditation or spiritual practice for *any* reason. Period. I don't believe compulsion enters in; I believe the parolee decides whether to participate in the program. I've forgotten the details. The dicey question might be whether the parolee gets easier terms as a result of participation. Again, I don't recall. This question is kinda like the grammar question I commented on a moment ago. I don't know what the rules are, but I know what feels right, and it feels like the Enlightened Sentencing Program is a great thing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Superlatives and platitudes
This has got to be the ABSOLUTE BEST POST i HAVE EVER READ HERE ON fAIRFIELD lIFE --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I watched some of the David Lynch Weekend downloads. And, yes, some of it was pretty interesting, particularly when Lynch was talking about film. It wasn't so interesting whenever he started talking about TM and selling the product. But what bugged me was that blowhard Bob Roth. Every time he introduced someone they were either the greatest at whatever it was they were doing or just simply great human being. I am sick of superlatives and platitudes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
Correction! No one is *compelled* to participate in The Enlightened Sentencing Program developed ny Farrokh. It's an option made available, and accepted by the *choice* of the participant after they learn what the program entails. They take *responsibility* for their *choice* and their own lives. The stories of the participants--in their own words--which you can find on the TESP web site can be quite moving. The whole civil liberties question has already been dealt with on this issue, I believe, even more so with the program no longer being associated with the TM movement. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While he's often right on, I think Jody (Guruphiliac) missed the boat on this one. While the lawyer in question may be Christian, what he's saying in his lawsuit is *correct*: it's fuckin' inappropriate for *any* judge *anywhere* to be able to compel *anyone* to practice *any* form of meditation or spiritual practice for *any* reason. Period. Maharishi never got this, IMO because he's a control freak who *already* believes that he should be able to run the lives of his teachers the way *he* feels they should be run. It's a short hop from believing that to believing that he has the right to mandate the lifestyle of everyone else in society. And he's on record as believing that he *does* have that right, and that TM *should* be mandated by governments. Talk about missing the point. Personally, I don't see that much difference between Maharishi's stance on this subject and that of the Ayatollahs in Iran or Afghanistan who wish to enforce Islam, or that of religious fanatics in every society and in every time who have felt they had the right to impose their beliefs on others. The real issue is freedom of choice with regard to one's spiritual or meditational practices. In my opinion, anyone who is willing to take that freedom away from someone, while claiming it's for their own good, is on the same level as the despot or dictator who would take away their physical freedom. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/112006e.asp Jody (Guruphiliac) comments quite rightly: That bulwark of spiritual ignorance impeding progress and cultural evolution, the American Family Association, is going after the judge who sentenced a crack-smoking vote defrauder to a course in TM#8482;. Actually, it's TMSM, or Transcendental Meditation Stress Management, and not affiliated with the Madharishi anymore.Leading the charge for the AFA is lawyer Brian Fahling:You've got a governmental actor who's ordering an individual to participate in something that perhaps may run contrary to their own particular beliefs and belief system. Still, the attorney says he is not really surprised by the judge's order because it is consistent with a larger trend toward secularization that is progressing in America.Wait a minute... The government is ordering an individual to participate in something that is being construed as a religious belief, yet the fact of this is evidence of the progressing secularization of America?We guess the guy is as uptight about his idea of religion as he looks in his photograph. http://www.agapepress.org/PhotoArchives/PhotoFiles/LoRes/BFahling_LoR es.jpg Who'da thunk that?What he means to say is that TM#8482; is the wrong religion. They all are... except his. There is no doubt the guy would be flipping cartwheels if the judge had sentenced the girl to attend a Southern Baptist church instead. It would have been much harsher outcome for the poor thing if you asked us. http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Advaita and Western Neo-Advaita
Advaita and Western Neo-Advaita Alan Jacobs The following is an article written for the Autumn 2004 issue of 'The Mountain Path', the journal of Sri Ramanasramam, by Alan Jacobs. It combines a review of 'The Book of One' with an assessment of the differences between the teaching of traditional Advaita and that of modern, western, so-called neo-Advaita. There can be no doubt that Dennis Waite's 'The Book Of One' is a worthy introduction to the Ancient Teaching of Advaita. In a clear and erudite manner he summarises the main points of this Great Philosophy and Spiritual Teaching. The book is in Sections with subsidiary chapters elucidating the chief principles. The Main Section Titles are as follows: The Unreal, The Spiritual Path, and the Real. The subsidiary 18 chapters within these Sections cover, amongst others, such topics as What I Am Not, the Nature of Man, What We Think We Can Know, Meditation, Appearance and Reality, Consciousness, the Nature of Self, Realisation, and the Direct Path, etc. Dennis Waite is a respected member of the Ramana Foundation UK, and there are many useful references to the Maharshi's Teachings in the text. He has studied the Subject for over fifteen years and has a working knowledge of Sanskrit. The book is definitely to be recommended for those who need a succinct overview to the whole Teaching in one medium size volume. It is easy to read and surveys the philosophy competently in an even handed way. This part of the book can well be regarded as a sound and valuable introduction to the whole field. There is however a long Appendix of 24 pages packed with information on current Western Advaita Organisations, International Internet Sites, and a Reading List. This part of the book raises an interesting and perplexing question of what exactly is happening to the hallowed and revered Teaching of Advaita in the Western World? Many firm devotees of Sri Ramana Maharshi now rightly term this western phenomenon as 'Neo-Advaita'. The term is carefully selected because 'neo' means 'a new or revived form'. And this new form is not the Classical Advaita which we understand to have been taught by both of the Great Self Realised Sages, Adi Shankara and Ramana Maharshi. It can even be termed 'pseudo' because, by presenting the teaching in a highly attenuated form, it might be described as purporting to be Advaita, but not in effect actually being so, in the fullest sense of the word. In this watering down of the essential truths in a palatable style made acceptable and attractive to the contemporary western mind, their teaching is misleading . Let us examine this thesis in more detail. There are a great many so-called Advaita or Non-Dual Teachers both in Europe, America and Australasia. Dennis Waite lists numerous organisations, Internet sites, and modern books, many of which fall under this category. New teachers calling themselves 'Awakened' appear frequently. One or another. They are often long standing ex-students of the late Rajneesh, or people who visited Lucknow with H.W.L. Poonja. Obviously styles, personalities, emphases, delineations, and content vary considerably. But there are enough common threads to identify this tendency as 'Neo-Advaita'. First of all the teaching is mainly presented by question and answer at meetings called 'Satsangs'. The teacher invites questions, and then answers them in his own particular way. There is no overview of the basic Advaita principles. So those who attend are left with no full understanding of the complete bases on which the Teaching stands. One is dependent on what is said there and then, after many visits, which have to be paid for, one may appreciate what the self-appointed teacher is attempting to 'put over'. The books they have published are in the main just edited transcripts of these 'satsangs', and are also incomplete. There is no doubt that many of these men and women are in most cases good looking, talented, gifted communicators. They often have a certain charisma and an intelligent quick wittedness. They can handle concepts from an intellectual standpoint with dexterity and are often entertaining in an idiosyncratic way. Many seekers develop a psychological dependency on one favourite teacher, others move from one to another hoping to pick up some truth which will help them in their quest. But these satsangs tend to be fragmented, so many teachers and meetings need to be visited and this can lead to confusion. There is generally a lack of experiential understanding of the Real Self and its Power as deep silence, unconditional love etc.. When the vasanas are strong and rajassic, even such rare glimpses may not happen at all. Stated briefly, what has happened is that an advanced teaching pointer, normally given to the Sadhak by a fully Self Realised Guru, Jivan Mukta or Jnani has been taken over as the preliminary step and is
[FairfieldLife] Re: Getting 'Lost'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since we're talking about movies, check out Baghdad Café. Everybody's has it if you're in town. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/bagdad_cafe/ Delightful movie. I will only occasionally discipline myself to see a thought provoking film. Having said that, I heartily recommend both Transporter and Transporter 2. Although they are very much in the action flick genre, they are all about integrity and living in the moment. Really well paced and filmed also. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Movie Reviews (was Re: Getting 'Lost')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since we're talking about movies, check out Baghdad Café. Everybody's has it if you're in town. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/bagdad_cafe/ Delightful movie. I just finished watching 'The Contender' for the third time so I could review it. If you haven't seen this film, you really should. It's one of the best films ever on the subject of ethics and how ethics are most important when they're inconvenient. Joan Allen (nominated for an Oscar for her perform- ance in this film) plays a US Senator just nominated as a fill-in for the recently-deceased Vice President. The story revoves around her confirmation and some past sexual improprieties that she is accused of. Jeff Bridges (also nominated for an Oscar) gives a brilliant performance as the President. Christian Slater plays a young Senator who is on the wrong side while believing he's doing the right thing. Kathryn Morris just steals every scene she is in as an uppity FBI agent. And Gary Oldman (nominated for a Golden Globe award for his performance and Executive Director of the film) turns in one of the best performances of his lifetime as Evil Incarnate. This film is the cinematic counterpart of the Zen Master Hakuin Is that so? koan. It's a must-see, in my opinion. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
Thats because you are a hugely bright light with the most piercing intellect --- and with the most subtle and sublime wit I have ever read. And I TOTALLY agree with Shemp: superlatives and platitudes absolotuley are the worst possible things on the planet, no, the ENTIRE universe! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has got to be the ABSOLUTE BEST POST i HAVE EVER READ HERE ON fAIRFIELD lIFE --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I watched some of the David Lynch Weekend downloads. And, yes, some of it was pretty interesting, particularly when Lynch was talking about film. It wasn't so interesting whenever he started talking about TM and selling the product. But what bugged me was that blowhard Bob Roth. Every time he introduced someone they were either the greatest at whatever it was they were doing or just simply great human being. I am sick of superlatives and platitudes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- TurquoiseB wrote: it's fuckin' inappropriate for *any* judge *anywhere* to be able to compel *anyone* to practice *any* form of meditation or spiritual practice for *any* reason. Period. I don't believe compulsion enters in; I believe the parolee decides whether to participate in the program. I've forgotten the details. The dicey question might be whether the parolee gets easier terms as a result of participation. Again, I don't recall. This question is kinda like the grammar question I commented on a moment ago. I don't know what the rules are, but I know what feels right, and it feels like the Enlightened Sentencing Program is a great thing. That's cool. Doesn't feel that way to me. Feels like the top of a very steep and very slippery slope to me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Movie Reviews (was Re: Getting 'Lost') -- correction
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary Oldman (nominated for a Golden Globe award for his performance and Executive Director of the film) ... Sorry...Executive Producer. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Movie Reviews (was Re: Getting 'Lost')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: Since we're talking about movies, check out Baghdad Café. Everybody's has it if you're in town. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/bagdad_cafe/ Delightful movie. I just finished watching 'The Contender' for the third time so I could review it. If you haven't seen this film, you really should. It's one of the best films ever on the subject of ethics and how ethics are most important when they're inconvenient. Joan Allen (nominated for an Oscar for her perform- ance in this film) plays a US Senator just nominated as a fill-in for the recently-deceased Vice President. The story revoves around her confirmation and some past sexual improprieties that she is accused of. Jeff Bridges (also nominated for an Oscar) gives a brilliant performance as the President. One of Jeff Bridges' best...amongst a career of great roles. His portrayal of the most powerful man in the world is underscored by the comfortable and natural mannerisms that he gives the president. And, of course, that whole theme of the president constantly ordering food and sandwiches from the you-can-get- whatever-you-want-24-hours-a-day White House kitchen works wonderfully. Christian Slater plays a young Senator who is on the wrong side while believing he's doing the right thing. Kathryn Morris just steals every scene she is in as an uppity FBI agent. And Gary Oldman (nominated for a Golden Globe award for his performance and Executive Director of the film) turns in one of the best performances of his lifetime as Evil Incarnate. This film is the cinematic counterpart of the Zen Master Hakuin Is that so? koan. It's a must-see, in my opinion. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Movie Reviews (was Re: Getting 'Lost')
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: Since we're talking about movies, check out Baghdad Café. Everybody's has it if you're in town. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/bagdad_cafe/ Delightful movie. I just finished watching 'The Contender' for the third time so I could review it. If you haven't seen this film, you really should. It's one of the best films ever on the subject of ethics and how ethics are most important when they're inconvenient. Joan Allen (nominated for an Oscar for her perform- ance in this film) plays a US Senator just nominated as a fill-in for the recently-deceased Vice President. The story revoves around her confirmation and some past sexual improprieties that she is accused of. Jeff Bridges (also nominated for an Oscar) gives a brilliant performance as the President. Christian Slater plays a young Senator who is on the wrong side while believing he's doing the right thing. Kathryn Morris just steals every scene she is in as an uppity FBI agent. And Gary Oldman (nominated for a Golden Globe award for his performance and Executive Director of the film) turns in one of the best performances of his lifetime as Evil Incarnate. This film is the cinematic counterpart of the Zen Master Hakuin Is that so? koan. It's a must-see, in my opinion. Yeah, I really enjoyed that one, because similar to Primary Colors, it provided a lot of insight into the inner workings of a political campaign. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- TurquoiseB wrote: it's fuckin' inappropriate for *any* judge *anywhere* to be able to compel *anyone* to practice *any* form of meditation or spiritual practice for *any* reason. Period. I don't believe compulsion enters in; I believe the parolee decides whether to participate in the program. I've forgotten the details. The dicey question might be whether the parolee gets easier terms as a result of participation. Again, I don't recall. This question is kinda like the grammar question I commented on a moment ago. I don't know what the rules are, but I know what feels right, and it feels like the Enlightened Sentencing Program is a great thing. That's cool. Doesn't feel that way to me. Feels like the top of a very steep and very slippery slope to me. On the surface -- it feels good. At a deeper level, it raises questions: can other judges offer prayer and bible study as an alternative. Or attandance in a stict muslim madras(sp)? Or as an apprentice in the Moonies' programs? Or attendance at a 12 part tantra sex seminar?* How about a year with Scientology? *Don't laugh, when I was in college, Herbert Marcuse -- an emmensely popular professor and author -- and a Marxist -- was teaching at a sister campus, teaching in his classes that not getting enough sex was the root of most social problems and all wars. Governor Ronald Reagan was not amused and tried to fire the tenured professor. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Movie Reviews (was Re: Getting 'Lost') -- correction
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Gary Oldman (nominated for a Golden Globe award for his performance and Executive Director of the film) ... Sorry...Executive Producer. I'm surprised to learn that Oldman was Executive Producer of the film because when the movie came out he publicly stated his unhappiness with the way he felt the film's ending was hijacked by what I remember as him describing as liberal or Democratic elements. Being Executive Producer, I would have thought, would have given him the power to veto the way the film turned out. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] DVD extras
Speaking of movies, I've gotten into extras and special features on DVDs as of late. If I love a particular movie, I can't get enough of it...and anything in addition to just the movie satisfies that hunger. So whether it's a director's commentary over the film or a Making of documentary or interviews with principals, I will order it from Netflix. Now, that doesn't mean it's always good. I find that sometimes whomever is putting together the extras does it in a way just to get out product and, like movies in general, extras can suck, too. Recent extras DVDs I've recently seen are: - Raging Bull - Casino - Goodfellas ...and over the last few days I've just completed the two-disc DVD of The man who fell to earth, by Nicholas Roeg. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While he's often right on, I think Jody (Guruphiliac) missed the boat on this one. While the lawyer in question may be Christian, what he's saying in his lawsuit is *correct*: it's fuckin' inappropriate for *any* judge *anywhere* to be able to compel *anyone* to practice *any* form of meditation or spiritual practice for *any* reason. Period. Maharishi never got this, IMO because he's a control freak who *already* believes that he should be able to run the lives of his teachers the way *he* feels they should be run. It's a short hop from believing that to believing that he has the right to mandate the lifestyle of everyone else in society. And he's on record as believing that he *does* have that right, and that TM *should* be mandated by governments. Talk about missing the point. Personally, I don't see that much difference between Maharishi's stance on this subject and that of the Ayatollahs in Iran or Afghanistan who wish to enforce Islam, or that of religious fanatics in every society and in every time who have felt they had the right to impose their beliefs on others. The real issue is freedom of choice with regard to one's spiritual or meditational practices. In my opinion, anyone who is willing to take that freedom away from someone, while claiming it's for their own good, is on the same level as the despot or dictator who would take away their physical freedom. I thought that the defendents were usually given a choice of 2 sentences, one with meditation, and one without that has more 'traditional' punishment. Does anyone know for sure? JohnY' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Advaita and Western Neo-Advaita
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_astute_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Advaita and Western Neo-Advaita Alan Jacobs great snip Now, Anon, while I don't fully agree with everything said by Alan, this is much much better than the article by Aziz. However, Neo-Advaita, no matter how faulty and incomplete, has a distinct advantage. It can serve as an introduction to the true Advaita Teaching. Flawed as Neo-Advaita may be, it undermines 'the phantom ego' intellectually at least, after several 'satsangs'. At its best it is a partial surrender, but without full devotional content and therefore cannot lead to total surrender when the mental occlusion is absorbed in the Heart. This is of course questionable. Why can it not lead to full and total surrender? While the critics may apply to many Satsang consumers, I don't see why somebody could not also develope full surrender. Devotion, surrender is something that cannot be fabricated, and as much as I understand Alans devotion to Ramana as a disincarnate teacher, a Satsangi may have the same devotion to his teacher, and may have the same kind of surrender to that teaching. One can only accept that the Neo-Advaitin movement with its proliferating teachers and burgeoning web sites is here to stay, although some have prophesied that the tide is beginning to turn and that many are now beginning to earnestly enquire into Ramana's Teaching. Actually many would do. many would go to Ramana Ashram even, or read Ramanas books, as almost all Poonja based teachers have Ramana pictures at their Satsangs. Why wouldn't they also read Ramanas works? Nevertheless, Neo- Advaita is a necessary part of 'what is' and as an aspect of the divine plan has its place as a preliminary introduction. Thats what I think too. It is therefore a valid, if imperfect stepping stone, for those who are ready and mature enough to walk on to true Advaita, instead of just reclining half way up the Mount Arunachala. Allow Sri Bhagavan to have the last word on this question: There must be human effort to discard them [vasanas]how could God be expected to be favourable towards you without your striving for it' [Letters pg 151]. About effort, may the TMers on FFL decide themselves what they think of it. I accept it in terms of aspiration. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: snip Remember that story I posted about a week ago which I entitled A Story for Judy and Barry? Neither of you commented on it. I thought it was trite and simplistic, actually, Rick, and not at all to the point. Neither Barry nor I is an +++ Does I is sound right? Some of the modern English seems to be getting out of hand. N. Good question. Barry am can't be right, though. I had originally written are, but that's not correct, because neither/nor takes a singular verb. I can't think of any way to get around Barry am or I is. Suggestions? For some reason the best one I can think of with neither - nor is Neither is Barry nor am I, but I have no idea how that wrong order of subject and predicate sounds to native speakers of English... You probably know the formal rules of English grammar better than I do! We would never use that construction, but I couldn't possibly explain why. Well, I've studied *some* general linguistics, and that's why I know that English is an SVO-language, that is, the normal word order of a declarative sentence is subject-verb-object. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: snip Remember that story I posted about a week ago which I entitled A Story for Judy and Barry? Neither of you commented on it. I thought it was trite and simplistic, actually, Rick, and not at all to the point. Neither Barry nor I is an +++ Does I is sound right? Some of the modern English seems to be getting out of hand. N. Good question. Barry am can't be right, though. I had originally written are, but that's not correct, because neither/nor takes a singular verb. I can't think of any way to get around Barry am or I is. Suggestions? For some reason the best one I can think of with neither - nor is Neither is Barry nor am I, but I have no idea how that wrong order of subject and predicate sounds to native speakers of English... You probably know the formal rules of English grammar better than I do! We would never use that construction, but I couldn't possibly explain why. Well, I've studied *some* general linguistics, and that's why I know that English is an SVO-language, that is, the normal word order of a declarative sentence is subject-verb-object. Correct you are. Impressed I am. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: DVD extras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speaking of movies, I've gotten into extras and special features on DVDs as of late. If I love a particular movie, I can't get enough of it...and anything in addition to just the movie satisfies that hunger. So whether it's a director's commentary over the film or a Making of documentary or interviews with principals, I will order it from Netflix. Now, that doesn't mean it's always good. I find that sometimes whomever is putting together the extras does it in a way just to get out product and, like movies in general, extras can suck, too. Recent extras DVDs I've recently seen are: - Raging Bull - Casino - Goodfellas ...and over the last few days I've just completed the two-disc DVD of The man who fell to earth, by Nicholas Roeg. Have you seen 'Heat' with deniro, pacino, ashley judd, and val kilmer? If not, judging by those three deniro flicks listed, you'll like it. I read the book 'Casino' and the movie is a scene for scene adaptation of the book-- all completely factual. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Divine Misconception: Traditional Advaita (Oneness) versus Neo-Advaita
by Tony Parson It has recently been argued that Traditional Oneness is somehow better than Neo-Oneness, or even Pseudo-Oneness. The strangeness of this idea exposes the foolishness of trying to give title to that which is limitless. The cunning and manipulative guru mind inevitably objectifies verbal expression, and out of that objectifying arises a plethora of dogmatic movements all claiming supreme understanding of that which cannot be understood. As a consequence, so-called Traditional Advaita, for instance, is just another established religion with a proliferation of teachings and literature, all of which very successfully and consistently miss the mark. It stands alongside Christianity and Buddhism as one of the many systems of personal indoctrination promising the eventual spiritual fulfilment. To quote from The Open Secret To translate the inexpressible into the doctrinal is to attempt to transform a song of freedom into a dogma of limitation. When the bird has flown, the essence of its song is often mislaid and all we are left with is an empty cage. The teaching of Traditional Advaita has no relevance to liberation because it is born out of a fundamental misconception. Its logical and sensibly progressive recommendations include meditation, self-enquiry, self-restraint, and to quote the renunciation of the ego and all desire. Of course there is nothing right or wrong with the idea of desiring to renounce desire. However, these idealistic recommendations and teachings are based on the fundamental misconception that there is such a thing as a separate individual with free will and the choice to become. The belief that there is a separate seeker (subject) who can choose to attain or become worthy of something called enlightenment (object) is a direct denial of abiding oneness (Advaita). Within the hypnotic dream of separation, the prevailing perception is that of the seeker and the sought. The ignorance of this perception continues in the search for enlightenment, and inevitably the dreamseeker is attracted to a dreamteaching which upholds and encourages the same premise of personal discipline and sacrifice (seeking) leading to the eventual goal of enlightenment (the sought). The recommendation to cultivate understanding and refine something called the mind (?) is hugely attractive to the dreamseeker because it prolongs the very worthy search and thrives on logic, detachment, complication, endeavour, hierarchy and exclusivity. Trying to understand oneness is as futile as trying to fall in love with an inch. There is no possibility of teaching oneness. However, the sharing can bring a rediscovery of that which is already known. If we are to believe recent descriptions of something called Neo-Advaita as being #8220;the forcing of the truth(?) on unprepared minds or advising people to stop seeking or suggesting to people that they are nothing but the mind itself, these teachings, if they exist, are equally as dualistic as the traditional Advaita they were born out of. This confusion is of course as much an expression of oneness as the clarity which exposes it. All of this silly circus is simply the eternal play of oneness apparently seeking itself. It is the wonderful cosmic joke oneness plays on itself by pretending to be an individual seeking something called not being an individual. When it is suddenly and directly rediscovered by no-one that liberation brings with it the realisation that there is nothing to seek and no-one to become liberated, then there is much laughter . . To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] The Problem and the Solution
by Durga Edited from posts to the SatsangDiary and Advaitin groups March 2005. I am a student of traditional Advaita Vedanta, studying in a lineage which is reputed to stretch unbroken back to Shankara. My teacher, a westerner, says this: You are already That. How can you be more That than you already are? There is nowhere to travel, and nothing you can do to be more yourself than you already are. If you think that there is something which can be done to make yourself That, it's like asking God to put a head on your shoulders. You've already got a head on your shoulders. No meditation. No technique. Nothing that you can do, can make you who you already are. Who you already are doesn't need to be traveled to. And it doesn't need maintenance. There is ignorance of your true nature. Ignorance which is held to be beginningless. Once gone, ignorance is forever gone and cannot return. Once the snake is seen as a rope, you cannot get the snake illusion back. The Upanishads act as a mirror held up to the student to directly show the student, with infinite patience, from more angles than you can even imagine, that you are already free. You are already what you seek. As this is what they do, the Upanishads are called the Mother Shruti, the Mother scripture, because they, with infinite patience, directly show the student the truth. So to my mind, whether the teacher points to you and says, This is It, and you see directly who you really are, or if the Upanishads point to you and say, You are That, it really amounts to the same thing. This and That are the same. In fact, when using the words You and It, it seems to me that the word You is even more direct, because it is *you* who you really are. The self-experience which you are having at this very moment is That, is It, is This. In fact in some way the word, You, is better. It points directly to you. The words This and It are rather impersonal. When the Upanishads say you, they mean you. Hey you! Yes, you. The 'problem' if problem there be, is one of ignorance. The 'solution' is knowledge. IMO the Upanishads, in the hands of a competent teacher, are just as direct as direct can be. There is nowhere to travel, and nothing you can do to be yourself. You are already That. That is your own self-experience, which you are having at this very moment. You#8217;ve just taken it to be something which is one with, and dependent on, the body and the mind. The teacher points out to you that you have made a mistake. A mistake which is one of ignorance, and which isn't your fault. A mistake which everyone makes until the truth is pointed out to them. And the mistake is this, you have taken your never changing self-experience to be one with, and dependent upon, the ever changing body/mind. How can your ever present, never changing self-experience be dependent on things which are changing? S/he shows you clearly and directly in a way that cannot be mistaken, because it is experiential, that you are not the body-mind (those experiences which come and go). You are the Self, never, ever at any point coming or going. Always and ever present, unchanging. This is your experience right now. The teachings of Vedanta are often equated with the Tenth Man Story, which has been told so frequently, that I leave it out here. Anyway, I don't think that people should denigrate the ways in which the Truth reveals itself. There is only one Truth. One Self. The Self,that which you are, is free from time. So all of this discussion of time, etc., actually it seems to me, is only from the standpoint of time, from the standpoint of duality. Why bother with arguments, which take place in and are about time? Why not see the moon and enjoy it, instead of pointing the finger at each other? [2nd Post] You could say that our Ordinary Everyday Awareness is IT. Yet most do not realize this. Is it somehow their faultthat they do not have Self-knowledge? It is no one's fault. Why does someone not have Self-knowledge in the first place? In the teachings, as I understand them, ignorance of one's true nature is held to be beginningless. What is ignorance? Ignorance is the mistaken, but strongly held belief, that the Atma, the Self is one with, and dependent upon, the body/mind/sense organs experience. Therefore one takes one's true self to be the body/mind. This is the conviction which most people have, and if you were to try and tell them otherwise, they would think that you were crazy. Every once and a while, it may occur to someone to ask the question: What is actually going on here? Because all of this certainly is not working out the way it is supposedto. And that is the birth of the seeker of Self-knowledge. The teachings of Advaita Vedanta are not about the seeking of an experience of Oneness by spiritual practice. The teacher tells you, You are already That. There is nothing which you can do to make yourself That, because you already are That. The problem is one of ignorance. The
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- anon_couscous_ff wrote: On the surface -- it feels good. At a deeper level, it raises questions: can other judges offer prayer and bible study as an alternative. Or attandance in a stict muslim madras(sp)? Or as an apprentice in the Moonies' programs? Or attendance at a 12 part tantra sex seminar?* How about a year with Scientology? When those programs offer reams of data demonstrating their efficacy, great. Let's put them to work. You fool! Tom Cruise has already studied the history of psycho-therapy. (HAVE YOU? !!). What more do you need!! :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My knowledge of grammar is almost completely by ear Same here. My mom had excellent grammar, and I picked it up from her. As a result, I never learned the rules. I could talk good without them. I would say Neither Barry nor I are going to agree to that, or neither Barry nor I am inclined to agree. To me, neither/nor is treated like either/or, and verbs after or take the case of the closest noun, or whatever you call it. Well, I went and looked it up at Random House's grammar QA page. It doesn't deal specifically with is vs. am--i.e., when there's a personal pronoun--but it does point out that neither/nor can be singular *or* plural, because while neither/nor is the negative counterpart of either/or, which always takes singular, it is *also* the negative counterpart of both/and, which always takes plural. The singular is generally preferred, however. Your observation about the case of the verb agreeing with the closest noun is also correct, but after some consideration, in this case I'd go with the both/and loophole and use the plural verb just because it doesn't sound so weird. Grammar isn't nearly so ironclad in its rules as high-school English teachers would have you believe. There's usually some wiggle room if you're faced with a choice between a rule and clarity--you just gotta know where and how big it is. (Dave Barry's Mr. Language Person might call it a Nominative Predilection.) Huh?? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] 'Personal Accounts of Awakening'
Personal Accounts of the Moment of Awakening of: Buddha Hui Neng Yeshe Tsogyal Jalaluddin Rumi Abraham Abulafia Catherine of Siena Kabir The Mad Dalai Lama John of the Cross Hakuin Baal Shem Tov Baha'u'llah Sri Ramakrishna Ramana Maharshi Swami Ramdas Mother Krishnabai Paramahansa Yogananda Meher Baba Krishnamurti Franklin Merrell-Wolff Peace Pilgrim Gopi Krishna Lester Levenson Jean Klein Ramesh Balsekar Robert Adams Bernadette Roberts Deepa Kodikal Gangaji Eckhart Tolle Almaas Shantimayi Ammachi Suzanne Segal New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
on 4/12/06 11:45 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Dave Barry's Mr. Language Person might call it a Nominative Predilection.) Huh?? http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/living/columnists/dave_barry/11484425.h tm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Advaita and Western Neo-Advaita
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Allow Sri Bhagavan to have the last word on this question: There must be human effort to discard them [vasanas]how could God be expected to be favourable towards you without your striving for it' [Letters pg 151]. Striving being very non-satsang and advaitan, per trinity in recent posts. Desire /striving to end the cycle of desire is ironic, if not funny, if not -- at some point -- not productive, IMO. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- anon_couscous_ff wrote: On the surface -- it feels good. At a deeper level, it raises questions: can other judges offer prayer and bible study as an alternative. Or attandance in a stict muslim madras(sp)? Or as an apprentice in the Moonies' programs? Or attendance at a 12 part tantra sex seminar?* How about a year with Scientology? When those programs offer reams of data demonstrating their efficacy, great. Let's put them to work. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Advaita and Western Neo-Advaita
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Allow Sri Bhagavan to have the last word on this question: There must be human effort to discard them [vasanas]how could God be expected to be favourable towards you without your striving for it' [Letters pg 151]. Striving being very non-satsang and non-advaitan, per trinity in recent posts. Desire /striving to end the cycle of desire is ironic, if not funny, if not -- at some point -- not productive, I To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Getting 'Lost'
TurquoiseB wrote: Last Christmas my brother gave me a DVD set of the first season of the TV series 'Lost.' Evil bastard. It's a weird soap opera, but as addicting (and as revelatory) as any other soap opera, if you allow it to be. I allowed it to be. I have a weakness for soap operas because they tend to portray the reality of most people's everyday lives *much* more accurately than the great works do. The great works are all about pretense and trying to see nobility in the stupid shit we do; soap operas are about *accepting* the stupid shit we do, laughing at it, and thus learning a little from it. Besides, 'Lost' is a TV show for which the 'pitch' was probably something along the lines of, Well... it's basically 'Survivor' meets 'X Files'...we'll get them hooked on the basic concept in the first season, and then *really* fuck with their minds in the next seasons... Their marketing ploy worked, at least on me. I've been waiting with 'bated breath for the second season to run in France, and unfortunately need to keep waiting, cuz it doesn't seem to be on the horizon anytime soon. But it is showing in the US, for those of you who need a good addiction to add to your lives. Here's a good review of the series, from (of all places) Tricycle, a respected Buddhist periodical: http://tricycle.com/issues/editors_pick/1899-1.html The reviewer's book, Cinema Nirvana: Enlightenment Lessons from the Movies, sounds worth looking into, too... A friend got me hooked on Lost last fall. I have the added attraction of being able to watch it in HDTV. :) It is a good series. I usually don't watch much network TV but last fall the media moguls launched new weapons of mass distraction by offering a bunch of science fiction shows. NBC had Surface on Mondays which is a cutesy mix of Gremlins, Godzilla in a B movie sort of way just good enough to keep you tuned in each week (also in HD). Then ABC followed Lost with Invasion another B movie type offering with William Fitcher (whose roll as the cop in the movie Go was a hoot). Again just good enough to keep you tuned in. Then CBS offered Threshold which was canceled after a while. I don't know what CBS tells producers as this series started out interesting but still had that soft CBS edge to it. All of these were in HDTV. On the occult side of things CBS launched Ghost Whisperer which is pretty much targeted at the female crowd and a little soft too though they are starting to do more of the dark side of the occult. The writing is better than NBC's The Medium but not that much better. The Medium was following the much better written Las Vegas until they moved Las Vegas recently to Fridays. I think that James Caan threatens to walk if the scripts are too dumb. And speaking of CBS and bad writing I was very disappointed with The Unit which seems to lack any of the kind of writing I would associate with David Mamet who produces. I gave up on it. The WB is offering Supernatural produced by Kim Manners of the X-Files and though definitely targeted at the Buffy crowd worth a watch. Unfortunately the WB channel is still not offered in HD on my cable system. :-( But we also don't get Universal HD channel except for during the Winter Olympics recently and so I am stuck watching Battlestar Gallactica in SD (blurry vision) except for 3 episodes shown during the Olympics. If you haven't already seen it the first season of BG is on DVD and is well written. Now The Sopranos has started up on HBO followed by a hilarious new show Big Love about Mormon polygamists. That's followed by Huff another great show on Showtime. (All in HD of course) Ugh, too much TV! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- TurquoiseB wrote: it's fuckin' inappropriate for *any* judge *anywhere* to be able to compel *anyone* to practice *any* form of meditation or spiritual practice for *any* reason. Period. I don't believe compulsion enters in; I believe the parolee decides whether to participate in the program. I've forgotten the details. The dicey question might be whether the parolee gets easier terms as a result of participation. Again, I don't recall. This question is kinda like the grammar question I commented on a moment ago. I don't know what the rules are, but I know what feels right, and it feels like the Enlightened Sentencing Program is a great thing. **END** The meditation offered through the Enlightened Sentencing program is offered to certain criminal defendants as an order of Probation, not Parole. Parole is a type of supervision one is subjec to upon release from prison. Probation is offered to someonw who is *not* going to prison (at least not right now and unless, perhaps, they violate the terms and conditions of their probation). It's a kind of conditional release. There are lots of orders and conditions given in any grant of probation and they frequently involve participation in quasi- religious programs like AA or even church conducted programs with very heavy Christian components (Teen Challenge, Rescue Mission, etc.). So to the degree that meditating using a mantra derived from Hindu tantric sources has anything to do with religion, it's no different from other terms and conditions given thousands of probationers. And since most meditators don't have much of an inkling of the link to Hinduism, other than a cursory summary of the meditation's origins within that cultural context it seems that it is even less offensive than commonly accepted probation orders. A criminal defendant can always reject probation if they object to any of the terms but that's rarely the case as most will agree to almost anything if that means they can get out of jail and/or avoid prison. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats because you are a hugely bright light with the most piercing intellect --- and with the most subtle and sublime wit I have ever read. And I TOTALLY agree with Shemp: superlatives and platitudes absolotuley are the worst possible things on the planet, no, the ENTIRE universe! Thank you, Anon and Peter, your responses were the best and most loving I could ever imagine reading. You've made me the happiest person in the world. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: This has got to be the ABSOLUTE BEST POST i HAVE EVER READ HERE ON fAIRFIELD lIFE --- shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: So I watched some of the David Lynch Weekend downloads. And, yes, some of it was pretty interesting, particularly when Lynch was talking about film. It wasn't so interesting whenever he started talking about TM and selling the product. But what bugged me was that blowhard Bob Roth. Every time he introduced someone they were either the greatest at whatever it was they were doing or just simply great human being. I am sick of superlatives and platitudes. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: DVD extras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Speaking of movies, I've gotten into extras and special features on DVDs as of late. If I love a particular movie, I can't get enough of it...and anything in addition to just the movie satisfies that hunger. So whether it's a director's commentary over the film or a Making of documentary or interviews with principals, I will order it from Netflix. Now, that doesn't mean it's always good. I find that sometimes whomever is putting together the extras does it in a way just to get out product and, like movies in general, extras can suck, too. Recent extras DVDs I've recently seen are: - Raging Bull - Casino - Goodfellas ...and over the last few days I've just completed the two-disc DVD of The man who fell to earth, by Nicholas Roeg. Have you seen 'Heat' with deniro, pacino, ashley judd, and val kilmer? If not, judging by those three deniro flicks listed, you'll like it. I saw Heat in the theatre when it first came out. I liked it. The one thing I didn't like was the gimmicky way they had De Niro and Pacino reunited because it was the first time they had ever appeared on film together, although they had been in the same film before (Godfather II). So, this was supposed to be the cool thing about Heat and I find that this distracted from the movie. I read the book 'Casino' and the movie is a scene for scene adaptation of the book-- all completely factual. I've read both Wiseguy (upon which Goodfellas was based) and Casino, both by Nicholas Pileggi. Pileggi appears prominently in both the Casino and Goodfellas DVD extras. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Nelson Riddle and his Orchestra
Fact? Fiction? Discuss amongst yourselves. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- anon_couscous_ff wrote: On the surface -- it feels good. At a deeper level, it raises questions: can other judges offer prayer and bible study as an alternative. Or attandance in a stict muslim madras(sp)? Or as an apprentice in the Moonies' programs? Or attendance at a 12 part tantra sex seminar?* How about a year with Scientology? When those programs offer reams of data demonstrating their efficacy, great. Let's put them to work. You fool! Tom Cruise has already studied the history of psycho-therapy. (HAVE YOU? !!). What more do you need!! :) Or when Tom says it's okay -- I meant to say that, and forgot. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff no_reply@ wrote: Thats because you are a hugely bright light with the most piercing intellect --- and with the most subtle and sublime wit I have ever read. And I TOTALLY agree with Shemp: superlatives and platitudes absolotuley are the worst possible things on the planet, no, the ENTIRE universe! Thank you, Anon and Peter, your responses were the best and most loving I could ever imagine reading. You've made me the happiest person in the world. Well Its SUCH a JOY, Shemp. Life is Bliss after all. Especially for us who GET IT. But really, everyone in the entire universes, no, ALL the universes, readly do GET IT. They just Don't GET that they GET IT yet. Whoa. No THATS the hugest of all Paradoxes of Brahamn. Well, I have to run. Yesterday, I found the best teacher in the whole cosmos, with the highest knowledge. I am going to get his TOTALLY awesome Darshan. Its the real thing. TOTALLY powerful. Now, if I can only meet my soulmate there. How AWESOME would that be, to meet the PERFECT girl. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- Rick Archer wrote: on 4/12/06 11:45 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Dave Barry's Mr. Language Person might call it a Nominative Predilection.) Huh?? http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/living/columnists/dave_barry/11484425.h tm My 12-year-old giggles audibly and continuously as she reads Dave Barry. It's as if someone's tickling her. She's turning her friends onto him, as well. Who better to consume his Booger Journalism? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: DVD extras
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: Speaking of movies, I've gotten into extras and special features on DVDs as of late. If I love a particular movie, I can't get enough of it...and anything in addition to just the movie satisfies that hunger. So whether it's a director's commentary over the film or a Making of documentary or interviews with principals, I will order it from Netflix. Now, that doesn't mean it's always good. I find that sometimes whomever is putting together the extras does it in a way just to get out product and, like movies in general, extras can suck, too. Recent extras DVDs I've recently seen are: - Raging Bull - Casino - Goodfellas ...and over the last few days I've just completed the two-disc DVD of The man who fell to earth, by Nicholas Roeg. Have you seen 'Heat' with deniro, pacino, ashley judd, and val kilmer? If not, judging by those three deniro flicks listed, you'll like it. I saw Heat in the theatre when it first came out. I liked it. The one thing I didn't like was the gimmicky way they had De Niro and Pacino reunited because it was the first time they had ever appeared on film together, although they had been in the same film before (Godfather II). So, this was supposed to be the cool thing about Heat and I find that this distracted from the movie. It was a really enjoyable movie, but yesh, little nits to it. I personally didn't think DeNiro's girlfriend in the film wasn't his type, at all. No edge to her. Suzie Creamcheese all the way. And he wasn't here type either. I read the book 'Casino' and the movie is a scene for scene adaptation of the book-- all completely factual. I've read both Wiseguy (upon which Goodfellas was based) and Casino, both by Nicholas Pileggi. Pileggi appears prominently in both the Casino and Goodfellas DVD extras. cool. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- Marek Reavis wrote: There are lots of orders and conditions given in any grant of probation and they frequently involve participation in quasi- religious programs like AA or even church conducted programs with very heavy Christian components (Teen Challenge, Rescue Mission, etc.). So to the degree that meditating using a mantra derived from Hindu tantric sources has anything to do with religion, it's no different from other terms and conditions given thousands of probationers. To me, the Enlightened Sentencing Program isn't justified because other programs are religiously slanted, but because the ESP's been demonstrated effective regardless of the probationer's beliefs. That's why Judge Mason considered it in the first place, and why a growing circle of his colleagues support it. It's the old argument that if you can measure results and replicate them, it's hard to classify the program as religious. Some spiritually based programs can't be passed along to non-believers. To illustrate, I'll retell a story I read in a biography of Mother Teresa. Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity work in close quarters with people who have highly contagious diseases. Yet the Missionaries get sick much less than Indian government workers who deal with the same people. Government managers asked Mother Teresa to teach them her methods in order to spare the health of government social services workers. Mother Teresa said, I can't teach you my methods because I don't have any. I believe the key to our good health is this: we see the people we aid as the suffering body of Christ. You cannot ask your people to take that point of view, hence, the good health we enjoy is out of your reach. [my paraphrase, of course] If Farrokh were asking his students to adopt an attitude or belief, the Enlightened Sentencing Program would have a problem -- or, let's say, bigger problems than it has. But he's not. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: **SNIP** To me, the Enlightened Sentencing Program isn't justified because other programs are religiously slanted, but because the ESP's been demonstrated effective regardless of the probationer's beliefs. That's why Judge Mason considered it in the first place, and why a growing circle of his colleagues support it. It's the old argument that if you can measure results and replicate them, it's hard to classify the program as religious. Some spiritually based programs can't be passed along to non-believers. To illustrate, I'll retell a story I read in a biography of Mother Teresa. Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity work in close quarters with people who have highly contagious diseases. Yet the Missionaries get sick much less than Indian government workers who deal with the same people. Government managers asked Mother Teresa to teach them her methods in order to spare the health of government social services workers. Mother Teresa said, I can't teach you my methods because I don't have any. I believe the key to our good health is this: we see the people we aid as the suffering body of Christ. You cannot ask your people to take that point of view, hence, the good health we enjoy is out of your reach. [my paraphrase, of course] If Farrokh were asking his students to adopt an attitude or belief, the Enlightened Sentencing Program would have a problem -- or, let's say, bigger problems than it has. But he's not. **END** My comments that Farrokh's meditation was no more religiously slanted (and even less so) than other programs ordered as part of a person's probation was more addressed to Barry's assertion that no judge should compel participation in an activity that was religious in nature (to some degree) than to yours. And, for what it's worth, the participation of probationers in these other programs (both quasi-religious, religious or secular) also have a track record of success (once again, to some degree) in helping probationers stay out of jail and prison. As you point out, the ESP doesn't ask for the probationers to adopt an attitude of belief, but other programs that do demand some portion of belief can similarly point to positive results. Probably not on as profound a level but good enough to be enshrined in the criminal justice system. The Mother Teresa and non-believers story isn't totally apt in this Christian-dominated culture. Lots and lots of folks find Jesus in the jails and prisons of this country, whereas I'd expect relatively few do in India. So social services that are Christian-based don't stand out in this culture while something as positive and benign as the ESP, even without any belief component, is still an oddity and subject to a level of critique far more strict. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I watched some of the David Lynch Weekend downloads. And, yes, some of it was pretty interesting, particularly when Lynch was talking about film. It wasn't so interesting whenever he started talking about TM and selling the product. But what bugged me was that blowhard Bob Roth. Every time he introduced someone they were either the greatest at whatever it was they were doing or just simply great human being. I am sick of superlatives and platitudes. Bob Roth has a style that some like and some don't but to call him a blowhard seems, well, unusual. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Getting 'Lost'
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Last Christmas my brother gave me a DVD set of the first season of the TV series 'Lost.' Evil bastard. It's a weird soap opera, but as addicting (and as revelatory) as any other soap opera, if you allow it to be. I allowed it to be. I have a weakness for soap operas because they tend to portray the reality of most people's everyday lives *much* more accurately than the great works do. The great works are all about pretense and trying to see nobility in the stupid shit we do; soap operas are about *accepting* the stupid shit we do, laughing at it, and thus learning a little from it. Besides, 'Lost' is a TV show for which the 'pitch' was probably something along the lines of, Well... it's basically 'Survivor' meets 'X Files'...we'll get them hooked on the basic concept in the first season, and then *really* fuck with their minds in the next seasons... I watched the first season on DVD and the second on iTunes. If you exactly double (or quadruple) the size of the iTunes playback window on a computer, it still looks decent even though the compression is designed for an iPod video window 2x 3. I don't have a video iPod OR a working TV hookup. Others I watch that include Surface (Nimrod's people are interesting bad guys), Commander in Chief (the Pres is a babe!), Desperate Housewives (Teri Hatcher at 40, need I say more), and the now-defunct [apparently] Nightstalker. I'ts expensive, but less so than owning a cable hookup. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/112006e.asp Jody (Guruphiliac) comments quite rightly: That bulwark of spiritual ignorance impeding progress and cultural evolution, the American Family Association, is going after the judge who sentenced a crack-smoking vote defrauder to a course in TM#8482;. Actually, it's TMSM, or Transcendental Meditation Stress Management, and not affiliated with the Madharishi anymore.Leading the charge for the AFA is lawyer Brian Fahling:You've got a governmental actor who's ordering an individual to participate in something that perhaps may run contrary to their own particular beliefs and belief system. Still, the attorney says he is not really surprised by the judge's order because it is consistent with a larger trend toward secularization that is progressing in America.Wait a minute... The government is ordering an individual to participate in something that is being construed as a religious belief, yet the fact of this is evidence of the progressing secularization of America?We guess the guy is as uptight about his idea of religion as he looks in his photograph. http://www.agapepress.org/PhotoArchives/PhotoFiles/LoRes/BFahling_LoR es.jpg Who'da thunk that?What he means to say is that TM#8482; is the wrong religion. They all are... except his. There is no doubt the guy would be flipping cartwheels if the judge had sentenced the girl to attend a Southern Baptist church instead. It would have been much harsher outcome for the poor thing if you asked us. http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/ ** Not exactly a surprise, in fact I was wondering why there had not been a challenge earlier, given the Malnak ruling years ago (1979 -- http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/Gen_Couns_to_SD.html ). And, although the AFA would certainly not have objected to the convict being sentenced to a Baptist church, the higher courts would have objected to this also. The courts are almost certainly going to see somebody sentenced to TM as violating the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution, which, along with the price increases everywhere except India, makes India the place to promote TM now -- a few candles lit around the world outside of India has been accomplished, but the 800+ million Hindus of Indias are going to have to be the lighthouse for the world from here on. Bob Brigante http://geocities.com/bbrigante To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
on 4/12/06 3:48 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob Roth has a style that some like and some don't but to call him a blowhard seems, well, unusual. Bobby is a dear friend of mine, although we hardly ever interact because we live in such different worlds these days. We taught and lived together from 1982-84 in Detroit. He has a very good heart, tremendous focus and energy, and is an all around great guy. He was just doing his bit as an MC at the Lynch thing. He's not a gifted public speaker. But a gifted PR guy. He's behind most of the TMO's PR these days. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While he's often right on, I think Jody (Guruphiliac) missed the boat on this one. While the lawyer in question may be Christian, what he's saying in his lawsuit is *correct*: it's fuckin' inappropriate for *any* judge *anywhere* to be able to compel *anyone* to practice *any* form of meditation or spiritual practice for *any* reason. Period. Did you note that this sentence was instead of jail time. IOW, basically a parole? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has got to be the ABSOLUTE BEST POST i HAVE EVER READ HERE ON fAIRFIELD lIFE Someone else who objects to Bob Roth's style. Ironically, using all caps to express support for someone complaining about someone who speaks in absolutes... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonybliss_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Correction! No one is *compelled* to participate in The Enlightened Sentencing Program developed ny Farrokh. It's an option made available, and accepted by the *choice* of the participant after they learn what the program entails. They take *responsibility* for their *choice* and their own lives. The stories of the participants--in their own words--which you can find on the TESP web site can be quite moving. The whole civil liberties question has already been dealt with on this issue, I believe, even more so with the program no longer being associated with the TM movement. ** Unless the court rejects the thinking by the Malnak court (certainly always a possibility in American jurisprudence), the court will find that TM amounts to establishment of religion, whether the convict is compelled to do so or offered TM as an option. All the elements that made the Malnak court find TM/SCI to be a religious practice are in place, even though Anklesaria has disassociated from the TMO over the price increases. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonybliss_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Correction! No one is *compelled* to participate in The Enlightened Sentencing Program developed ny Farrokh. It's an option made available, and accepted by the *choice* of the participant after they learn what the program entails. They take *responsibility* for their *choice* and their own lives. The stories of the participants--in their own words--which you can find on the TESP web site can be quite moving. The whole civil liberties question has already been dealt with on this issue, I believe, even more so with the program no longer being associated with the TM movement. And only because Farokh is every bit as arrogant in his own way as the rest of the TMO. I'm pretty sure that he could have gotten David Lynch to pay the bill for anyone sentenced to practice TM, but its doubtful that he even considered trying. So now there's a schism where there didn't need to be one because someone was too proud to ask someone else for funding. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats because you are a hugely bright light with the most piercing intellect --- and with the most subtle and sublime wit I have ever read. And I TOTALLY agree with Shemp: superlatives and platitudes absolotuley are the worst possible things on the planet, no, the ENTIRE universe! OK, I missed the joke or at least dismissed it as unlikely, given how anti-TM most people are here. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- anon_couscous_ff wrote: On the surface -- it feels good. At a deeper level, it raises questions: can other judges offer prayer and bible study as an alternative. Or attandance in a stict muslim madras(sp)? Or as an apprentice in the Moonies' programs? Or attendance at a 12 part tantra sex seminar?* How about a year with Scientology? When those programs offer reams of data demonstrating their efficacy, great. Let's put them to work. Ah,but all TM data is suspect because it is, well, TM data. Never mind if many/most/all of the scientists working on the study don't practice TM. If its TM, its fake data, by definition. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- anon_couscous_ff wrote: On the surface -- it feels good. At a deeper level, it raises questions: can other judges offer prayer and bible study as an alternative. Or attandance in a stict muslim madras(sp)? Or as an apprentice in the Moonies' programs? Or attendance at a 12 part tantra sex seminar?* How about a year with Scientology? When those programs offer reams of data demonstrating their efficacy, great. Let's put them to work. You fool! Tom Cruise has already studied the history of psycho-therapy. (HAVE YOU? !!). What more do you need!! :) Or when Tom says it's okay -- I meant to say that, and forgot. Tom Cruise comes from a nightmare background, so it's not hard to understand why he seems off: http://tinyurl.com/ek52j As Tom Cruise prepares to be a proud papa again, he has implied there's one man he definitely will not be taking lessons in daddyhood from. His own father. The War of the Worlds star says in the upcoming issue of Parade magazine that his father, Thomas Cruise Mapother III, who died in the mid-'80s of cancer, was abusive. He was a bully and a coward. He was the kind of person where, if something goes wrong, they kick you, Cruise said. It was a great lesson in my life--how he'd lull you in, make you feel safe and then, bang! Even when he was a child he felt his dad was someone to watch out for. For me, it was like, 'There's something wrong with this guy. Don't trust him. Be careful around him.' There's that anxiety, Cruise divulged. His mother, Mary Lee, divorced his dad in 1974. Cruise said he approached his father for a reconciliation (sometime between Risky Business and Top Gun), when Mapother was on his deathbed. He would only meet me on the basis that I didn't ask him anything about the past, the 43-year-old actor said. The estranged father and son reunited, but there was no closure to be had. When I saw him in pain, Cruise reminisced, I thought, 'Wow, what a lonely life.' He was in his late 40s. It was sad. And although going to school was a chance to flee his unhappy home, the classroom offered little solace for a young Cruise. Apparently, no one realized they were picking on the future Tom Cruise because, as a boy, he was harassed in the halls quite a bit. So many times the big bully comes up, pushes me, Cruise remembered. Your heart's pounding, you sweat and you feel like you're going to vomit...I don't like bullies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: My knowledge of grammar is almost completely by ear Same here. My mom had excellent grammar, and I picked it up from her. As a result, I never learned the rules. I could talk good without them. I would say Neither Barry nor I are going to agree to that, or neither Barry nor I am inclined to agree. To me, neither/nor is treated like either/or, and verbs after or take the case of the closest noun, or whatever you call it. Well, I went and looked it up at Random House's grammar QA page. It doesn't deal specifically with is vs. am--i.e., when there's a personal pronoun--but it does point out that neither/nor can be singular *or* plural, because while neither/nor is the negative counterpart of either/or, which always takes singular, it is *also* the negative counterpart of both/and, which always takes plural. The singular is generally preferred, however. Your observation about the case of the verb agreeing with the closest noun is also correct, but after some consideration, in this case I'd go with the both/and loophole and use the plural verb just because it doesn't sound so weird. By the way, a sentence involving neither of us has neither as the subject, just as duke is the subject in a sentence with duke of earl, so you use whatever sounds/works best with neither, er, neither. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/12/06 11:45 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Dave Barry's Mr. Language Person might call it a Nominative Predilection.) Huh?? http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/living/columnists/dave_barry/11484 425.htm I kiss the lotus feet of Dave Barry. But I'd never encountered Mr. Language Person--and me an editor! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/112006e.asp Jody (Guruphiliac) comments quite rightly: That bulwark of spiritual ignorance impeding progress and cultural evolution, the American Family Association, is going after the judge who sentenced a crack-smoking vote defrauder to a course in TM#8482;. Actually, it's TMSM, or Transcendental Meditation Stress Management, and not affiliated with the Madharishi anymore.Leading the charge for the AFA is lawyer Brian Fahling:You've got a governmental actor who's ordering an individual to participate in something that perhaps may run contrary to their own particular beliefs and belief system. Still, the attorney says he is not really surprised by the judge's order because it is consistent with a larger trend toward secularization that is progressing in America.Wait a minute... The government is ordering an individual to participate in something that is being construed as a religious belief, yet the fact of this is evidence of the progressing secularization of America?We guess the guy is as uptight about his idea of religion as he looks in his photograph. http://www.agapepress.org/PhotoArchives/PhotoFiles/LoRes/BFahling_LoR es.jpg Who'da thunk that?What he means to say is that TM#8482; is the wrong religion. They all are... except his. There is no doubt the guy would be flipping cartwheels if the judge had sentenced the girl to attend a Southern Baptist church instead. It would have been much harsher outcome for the poor thing if you asked us. http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/ ** Not exactly a surprise, in fact I was wondering why there had not been a challenge earlier, given the Malnak ruling years ago (1979 -- Bunches of reasons: 1) it works; 2) the ruling was EXTREMELY limiated in scope and even if it were not, it was a lower-court ruling, so it wouldn'tbeconsidered binding precedent in another state; 3) times have changed with faith-based initiatives all over the place --no Christian organization will dare bring a lawsuit challenging TM when a ruling against TM would make THEIR initiatives vulnerable also. http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/Gen_Couns_to_SD.html ). And, although the AFA would certainly not have objected to the convict being sentenced to a Baptist church, the higher courts would have objected to this also. The courts are almost certainly going to see somebody sentenced to TM as violating the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution, Not really. which, along with the price increases everywhere except India, makes India the place to promote TM now -- a few candles lit around the world outside of India has been accomplished, but the 800+ million Hindus of Indias are going to have to be the lighthouse for the world from here on. Again, not really. Lynch is a real go-getter. He may not be able to raise $7 billion directly, but he can certainly get matching funds lesser amounts from larger corporations. The private school that teaches TM that is mentioned on his website gets its funding from major corporations after all. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/12/06 3:48 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob Roth has a style that some like and some don't but to call him a blowhard seems, well, unusual. Bobby is a dear friend of mine, although we hardly ever interact because we live in such different worlds these days. We taught and lived together from 1982-84 in Detroit. He has a very good heart, tremendous focus and energy, and is an all around great guy. He was just doing his bit as an MC at the Lynch thing. He's not a gifted public speaker. But a gifted PR guy. He's behind most of the TMO's PR these days. He and I need to have a chat. Don't think we ever have, unless it was during the NLP days. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] DVD extras
Extras or commentaries started with Laser Discs. I have an old collection of them. Sometimes extras can be gratuitous and commentaries nothing but gratuitous praise about how wonderful some actor was to work with and little substance. I like to rent DVD of some of the small independent movies to see how they made them. Richard Rodriguez's El Mariachi and Desperado duel DVD has some nice 10-minute film school extras. So does Once Upon a Time in Mexico which even includes an extra with Rodriguez showing how to make the pork dish that the Johnny Depp character killed for. :) shempmcgurk wrote: Speaking of movies, I've gotten into extras and special features on DVDs as of late. If I love a particular movie, I can't get enough of it...and anything in addition to just the movie satisfies that hunger. So whether it's a director's commentary over the film or a Making of documentary or interviews with principals, I will order it from Netflix. Now, that doesn't mean it's always good. I find that sometimes whomever is putting together the extras does it in a way just to get out product and, like movies in general, extras can suck, too. Recent extras DVDs I've recently seen are: - Raging Bull - Casino - Goodfellas ...and over the last few days I've just completed the two-disc DVD of The man who fell to earth, by Nicholas Roeg. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonybliss_ff no_reply@ wrote: Correction! No one is *compelled* to participate in The Enlightened Sentencing Program developed ny Farrokh. It's an option made available, and accepted by the *choice* of the participant after they learn what the program entails. They take *responsibility* for their *choice* and their own lives. The stories of the participants--in their own words--which you can find on the TESP web site can be quite moving. The whole civil liberties question has already been dealt with on this issue, I believe, even more so with the program no longer being associated with the TM movement. ** Unless the court rejects the thinking by the Malnak court (certainly always a possibility in American jurisprudence), the court will find that TM amounts to establishment of religion, whether the convict is compelled to do so or offered TM as an option. All the elements that made the Malnak court find TM/SCI to be a religious practice are in place, even though Anklesaria has disassociated from the TMO over the price increases. Malnak teaches SCI? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonybliss_ff no_reply@ wrote: Correction! No one is *compelled* to participate in The Enlightened Sentencing Program developed ny Farrokh. It's an option made available, and accepted by the *choice* of the participant after they learn what the program entails. They take *responsibility* for their *choice* and their own lives. The stories of the participants--in their own words--which you can find on the TESP web site can be quite moving. The whole civil liberties question has already been dealt with on this issue, I believe, even more so with the program no longer being associated with the TM movement. ** Unless the court rejects the thinking by the Malnak court (certainly always a possibility in American jurisprudence), the court will find that TM amounts to establishment of religion, whether the convict is compelled to do so or offered TM as an option. All the elements that made the Malnak court find TM/SCI to be a religious practice are in place, even though Anklesaria has disassociated from the TMO over the price increases. Malnak teaches SCI? Er, meant to ask *Farokh* teaches SCI? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/12/06 3:48 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bob Roth has a style that some like and some don't but to call him a blowhard seems, well, unusual. Bobby is a dear friend of mine, although we hardly ever interact because we live in such different worlds these days. We taught and lived together from 1982-84 in Detroit. He has a very good heart, tremendous focus and energy, and is an all around great guy. He was just doing his bit as an MC at the Lynch thing. He's not a gifted public speaker. But a gifted PR guy. He's behind most of the TMO's PR these days. I think he's an okay guy. I was on his 6-month course in St. Moritz, summer 1977 (the same one that Turquoise was on). After the course, the next time I saw him was about a year later at MIU. He had gained from the sight of things about 100-150 pounds, which he has obviously lost (he's now down to the skinny body type I knew him from in Switzerland). And, to his credit (or TM's credit) Roth looks virtually the same today (both in weight and complexion) as he did in '77. His radical body fluctuations reminded me of Bevan Morris. Bevan was our informal course leader at St. Moritz and, at the time, was no more than 150 lbs. Several years later he, of course, ballooned up to what appeared to be his current weight...300 lbs? Of course, the difference between Roth and Bevan is that Roth lost all the weight and it stayed off and Bevan hasn't. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
One of my tantric guru's disciples was a juvenile officer and had him come in and teach some juvenile offenders meditation. It was very helpful and the kids enjoyed it. He had them write short papers on meditation and I read some of them. It seemed to mean a lot to these kids. One touching thing was that he found out that it was one of the participants birthday so he brought a birthday cake. She was in tears because her family had NEVER celebrated her birthday. TurquoiseB wrote: While he's often right on, I think Jody (Guruphiliac) missed the boat on this one. While the lawyer in question may be Christian, what he's saying in his lawsuit is *correct*: it's fuckin' inappropriate for *any* judge *anywhere* to be able to compel *anyone* to practice *any* form of meditation or spiritual practice for *any* reason. Period. Maharishi never got this, IMO because he's a control freak who *already* believes that he should be able to run the lives of his teachers the way *he* feels they should be run. It's a short hop from believing that to believing that he has the right to mandate the lifestyle of everyone else in society. And he's on record as believing that he *does* have that right, and that TM *should* be mandated by governments. Talk about missing the point. Personally, I don't see that much difference between Maharishi's stance on this subject and that of the Ayatollahs in Iran or Afghanistan who wish to enforce Islam, or that of religious fanatics in every society and in every time who have felt they had the right to impose their beliefs on others. The real issue is freedom of choice with regard to one's spiritual or meditational practices. In my opinion, anyone who is willing to take that freedom away from someone, while claiming it's for their own good, is on the same level as the despot or dictator who would take away their physical freedom. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/4/112006e.asp Jody (Guruphiliac) comments quite rightly: That bulwark of spiritual ignorance impeding progress and cultural evolution, the American Family Association, is going after the judge who sentenced a crack-smoking vote defrauder to a course in TM#8482;. Actually, it's TMSM, or Transcendental Meditation Stress Management, and not affiliated with the Madharishi anymore.Leading the charge for the AFA is lawyer Brian Fahling:You've got a governmental actor who's ordering an individual to participate in something that perhaps may run contrary to their own particular beliefs and belief system. Still, the attorney says he is not really surprised by the judge's order because it is consistent with a larger trend toward secularization that is progressing in America.Wait a minute... The government is ordering an individual to participate in something that is being construed as a religious belief, yet the fact of this is evidence of the progressing secularization of America?We guess the guy is as uptight about his idea of religion as he looks in his photograph. http://www.agapepress.org/PhotoArchives/PhotoFiles/LoRes/BFahling_LoR es.jpg Who'da thunk that?What he means to say is that TM#8482; is the wrong religion. They all are... except his. There is no doubt the guy would be flipping cartwheels if the judge had sentenced the girl to attend a Southern Baptist church instead. It would have been much harsher outcome for the poor thing if you asked us. http://guruphiliac.blogspot.com/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff no_reply@ wrote: Thats because you are a hugely bright light with the most piercing intellect --- and with the most subtle and sublime wit I have ever read. And I TOTALLY agree with Shemp: superlatives and platitudes absolotuley are the worst possible things on the planet, no, the ENTIRE universe! OK, I missed the joke or at least dismissed it as unlikely, given how anti-TM most people are here. Aren't you anti-TM, Spare Egg? I mean, you spend hourse every day defending it like a father blindly defending his daughter's virginity yet you only do it half the time you are supposed to? Isn't that a kind of contempt? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
on 4/12/06 4:32 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think he's an okay guy. I was on his 6-month course in St. Moritz, summer 1977 (the same one that Turquoise was on). After the course, the next time I saw him was about a year later at MIU. He had gained from the sight of things about 100-150 pounds, which he has obviously lost (he's now down to the skinny body type I knew him from in Switzerland). And, to his credit (or TM's credit) Roth looks virtually the same today (both in weight and complexion) as he did in '77. As I recall, Bobby said he was eating only boiled zucchinis on that course and dropped below 100 pounds. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- TurquoiseB wrote: it's fuckin' inappropriate for *any* judge *anywhere* to be able to compel *anyone* to practice *any* form of meditation or spiritual practice for *any* reason. Period. I don't believe compulsion enters in; I believe the parolee decides whether to participate in the program. I've forgotten the details. The dicey question might be whether the parolee gets easier terms as a result of participation. Again, I don't recall. This question is kinda like the grammar question I commented on a moment ago. I don't know what the rules are, but I know what feels right, and it feels like the Enlightened Sentencing Program is a great thing. That's cool. Doesn't feel that way to me. Feels like the top of a very steep and very slippery slope to me. On the surface -- it feels good. At a deeper level, it raises questions: can other judges offer prayer and bible study as an alternative. Or attandance in a stict muslim madras(sp)? Or as an apprentice in the Moonies' programs? Or attendance at a 12 part tantra sex seminar?* How about a year with Scientology? Tonight I attended a concert of medieval music, songs of pilgrimage, as performed by Jordi Savall and his wonderful Hesperion XXI ensemble. The concert was held in the Cathedrale Saint-Theodorit in nearby Uzes. Although the music was wonderful, knowing the history of this cathedral, it was impossible not to think of this FFL thread while sitting there. It's a fairly normal cathedral, as French cathe- drals go, except that it has a second and third floor to it, galleries off to each side that allowed whoever was standing there to look down on the Mass through metal grillwork. You see, in the late 17th century, the primarily Catholic townspeople decided that -- for their own good -- all of the Protestants should be forced to attend Mass every Sunday. They were not allowed to take communion, of course, and were equally not allowed to mingle with the real people down in the main area of the cathedral. So -- again, for their own good -- they were herded into these second- and third- floor galleries and forced to stand there while the Catholics had their Mass downstairs. I repeat my contention; no matter who you are or how theoretically noble your intentions, when you can justify imposing your beliefs and practices on someone for their own good, you're at the top of a very slippery slope indeed. The road to hell paved with good intentions, and all that... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] on the subject of things to watch...
I notice that few here seem to be anime fans. I would expect partly because Westerners are hostile to animation in general, and partly because most Westerners think that anime is Pokemon, which is barely accurate -- Pokemon is really a long-running advertisement with extremely rare flashes of genuine humor. For those that are willing to take a chance, there are PLENTY of major anime titles out there --seeing how anime in japan is the most popular video media, just as manga (comics) is the most popular written media, you'd have to make an assumption that the Japanese have no literature or art to speak of to dismiss anime and manga out-of-hand. Good writers go where the money is. An anime series that I am currently watching is a sci-fi series based on Kurisawa's Seven Samurai: Samurai 7. It is laid in the far future some years after a devastating war that left many cyborgs and soldiers without a place in society. Some turn to banditry and terrorize villagers and law-abiding people. Others try to remain true to their Code as defenders of civilization and culture --these are the hungry ones and, as the writers (Kurisawa is given top billing as writer, even though he died about 5 years before the series was released) themselves point out: even a thousand years in the future, it's STILL all about the rice. There are many other anime series out there worthy of consideration. Anything by Rumiko Takahashi is worth watching. She is the wealthiest woman in Japan and made her fortune writing manga and anime scripts. She has over 1000 manga published in the past 25 years and more than 500 anime episodes with her name on them. She got her start in manga at age 19 and her first TV series started airing when she was 21, which ran for several years. http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Dojo/7739/rumiko.html Cartoon network is currently playing her latest anime, a 160+ episode series called Inuyasha (dog-boy demon). Other series to her name include her first, based on her second comic series, Urusei Yatsura (those pesky aliens -- AKA Princess Lum) and Maison Ikokku, about the bizarre tenants of a rundown boarding house. Her most famous series is Ranma 1/2, about a teenage boy cursed to turn into a girl whenver he gets splashed with cold water (he turns back when splashed with hot water --not THAT hot, dammit!). This ran on TV for 9 years. There are literally hundreds of other worthy anime series out there. But I'm betting most of you have never seen them because they are cartoons. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff no_reply@ wrote: Thats because you are a hugely bright light with the most piercing intellect --- and with the most subtle and sublime wit I have ever read. And I TOTALLY agree with Shemp: superlatives and platitudes absolotuley are the worst possible things on the planet, no, the ENTIRE universe! OK, I missed the joke or at least dismissed it as unlikely, given how anti-TM most people are here. Aren't you anti-TM, Spare Egg? I mean, you spend hourse every day defending it like a father blindly defending his daughter's virginity yet you only do it half the time you are supposed to? Isn't that a kind of contempt? Or a sign of mental illness. Take your pick. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] His radical body fluctuations reminded me of Bevan Morris. Bevan was our informal course leader at St. Moritz and, at the time, was no more than 150 lbs. Several years later he, of course, ballooned up to what appeared to be his current weight...300 lbs? Of course, the difference between Roth and Bevan is that Roth lost all the weight and it stayed off and Bevan hasn't. I'm working on losing that extra 100+ out of 300 myself. Stress and unstressing can affect people differently. After my two kids were born (out of wedlock, to different mothers, 6 months apart), I went from 160 to 270 in the space of about 15 years, and ballooned even further to 296 in the last 5. Now down to 284 in a few weeks by cutting out soda. Starting to walk again (not easy when you are carrying yourself on your back). My goal is to weigh 200 or less by the end of next year. We will see. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
On Apr 12, 2006, at 4:02 PM, bob_brigante wrote: Unless the court rejects the thinking by the Malnak court (certainly always a possibility in American jurisprudence), the court will find that TM amounts to establishment of religion, And where they'd get a crazy idea like that is beyond me. Cult is a bit more accurate. whether the convict is compelled to do so or offered TM as an option. TM or jail time? It's close. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
on 4/12/06 5:08 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] His radical body fluctuations reminded me of Bevan Morris. Bevan was our informal course leader at St. Moritz and, at the time, was no more than 150 lbs. Several years later he, of course, ballooned up to what appeared to be his current weight...300 lbs? Of course, the difference between Roth and Bevan is that Roth lost all the weight and it stayed off and Bevan hasn't. I'm working on losing that extra 100+ out of 300 myself. Stress and unstressing can affect people differently. After my two kids were born (out of wedlock, to different mothers, 6 months apart), I went from 160 to 270 in the space of about 15 years, and ballooned even further to 296 in the last 5. Now down to 284 in a few weeks by cutting out soda. Starting to walk again (not easy when you are carrying yourself on your back). My goal is to weigh 200 or less by the end of next year. We will see. Do you try to walk a little farther every day? Or the same route? Perhaps dedicating about half of your computer time to more walking would help. Of course, who am I to talk? I'm not overweight, but could sure use more exercise. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 4/11/06 9:22 PM, authfriend at jstein@ wrote: Here, I've got it: Barry isn't an old master, and neither am I. Did you consult Strunk and White, or just work it out? No, it came to me in a blinding flash of inspiration. (Do my posts look like I consult Strunk and White?? Nobody's ever accused me of not using unnecessary words.) +++ Double negative-obscure meaning. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ [...] His radical body fluctuations reminded me of Bevan Morris. Bevan was our informal course leader at St. Moritz and, at the time, was no more than 150 lbs. Several years later he, of course, ballooned up to what appeared to be his current weight...300 lbs? Of course, the difference between Roth and Bevan is that Roth lost all the weight and it stayed off and Bevan hasn't. I'm working on losing that extra 100+ out of 300 myself. Stress and unstressing can affect people differently. After my two kids were born (out of wedlock, to different mothers, 6 months apart), I went from 160 to 270 in the space of about 15 years, and ballooned even further to 296 in the last 5. Now down to 284 in a few weeks by cutting out soda. Starting to walk again (not easy when you are carrying yourself on your back). My goal is to weigh 200 or less by the end of next year. We will see. Wow, that's quite a project. It'll be worth it, though. Good luck, Lawson. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 4/11/06 9:22 PM, authfriend at jstein@ wrote: Here, I've got it: Barry isn't an old master, and neither am I. Did you consult Strunk and White, or just work it out? No, it came to me in a blinding flash of inspiration. (Do my posts look like I consult Strunk and White?? Nobody's ever accused me of not using unnecessary words.) +++ Double negative-obscure meaning. Heh. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: snip Remember that story I posted about a week ago which I entitled A Story for Judy and Barry? Neither of you commented on it. I thought it was trite and simplistic, actually, Rick, and not at all to the point. Neither Barry nor I is an +++ Does I is sound right? Some of the modern English seems to be getting out of hand. N. Good question. Barry am can't be right, though. I had originally written are, but that's not correct, because neither/nor takes a singular verb. I can't think of any way to get around Barry am or I is. Suggestions? +++ Maybe Barry and I are not- we are not (collective) not sure. Having failed English one year in high school and, getting remarkably poor grades in it, I have observed that some of the sentence structure I see in the news papers would get you thrown out of school altogether in the early fifties. It looks like no one ever heard of a split infinitive which is a major gripe and, I am expecting to see throw the horse over the fence some hay any day now. N. To go boldly sounds stupid compared to to boldy go. The reason why we can't split an infinitive is because Latin simply CANNOT. English CAN, and the verb is to boldly go, which has pretty much the same meaning as to go boldly or boldly to go, but is it's own verb in English. The grammarians have been wrong for what, a thousand years? That's OK, just think of it as the last gasp grasp the Roman Church has had on the English language. +++ I didn't take Latin so maybe that would explain my problem. Took French instead and got low marks in that too but can still read a little of it. Back then,an adverb had to come after the verb but in the meantime I guess they could have changed it. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] What to do to reclaim FFL? (was Re: On Bullshit and Crimes Against Logic)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Nelson nelsonriddle2001@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: snip Remember that story I posted about a week ago which I entitled A Story for Judy and Barry? Neither of you commented on it. I thought it was trite and simplistic, actually, Rick, and not at all to the point. Neither Barry nor I is an +++ Does I is sound right? Some of the modern English seems to be getting out of hand. N. Good question. Barry am can't be right, though. I had originally written are, but that's not correct, because neither/nor takes a singular verb. I can't think of any way to get around Barry am or I is. Suggestions? For some reason the best one I can think of with neither - nor is Neither is Barry nor am I, but I have no idea how that wrong order of subject and predicate sounds to native speakers of English... +++ Some people, in studying english, will have a better grasp of it than a lot of the native users. We have a few on this site that are doing commendably. N. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 12, 2006, at 4:02 PM, bob_brigante wrote: Unless the court rejects the thinking by the Malnak court (certainly always a possibility in American jurisprudence), the court will find that TM amounts to establishment of religion, And where they'd get a crazy idea like that is beyond me. Cult is a bit more accurate. whether the convict is compelled to do so or offered TM as an option. TM or jail time? It's close. Sal Wholeness vs Holeness? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: This has got to be the ABSOLUTE BEST POST i HAVE EVER READ HERE ON fAIRFIELD lIFE Someone else who objects to Bob Roth's style. Ironically, using all caps to express support for someone complaining about someone who speaks in absolutes... um, that was sort of the joke -- along with absolute best post ... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
Comment below: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [Brigante wrote:] Not exactly a surprise, in fact I was wondering why there had not been a challenge earlier, given the Malnak ruling years ago (1979 -- Bunches of reasons: 1) it works; 2) the ruling was EXTREMELY limiated in scope and even if it were not, it was a lower-court ruling, so it wouldn'tbeconsidered binding precedent in another state; 3) times have changed with faith-based initiatives all over the place --no Christian organization will dare bring a lawsuit challenging TM when a ruling against TM would make THEIR initiatives vulnerable also. **SNIP TO END** The ruling in Malnak v. Yogi (592 F.2d 197 (1977)) was from the Third District Federal Court and consequently only binding precedent in the Third District, and only *persuasive* authority (but not binding) in lower state courts within the Third District and therefore of only limited persuasive authority (if that) anywhere else. Whether or not TM works, the Court in Malnak specifically evaluated whether or not the Establishment Clause of the US Constitution (the First Amendment, which bans the government from either promoting or prohibiting religion) was violated by the *combined* teaching of TM/SCI in the New Jersey public schools, and not the teaching of TM by itself (although the Court does reference a Law Review article from the University of Minnesota that argues TM alone would be violative of the Establishment Clause in Footnote 54, see below). The relevant passages from that decision follow: Although Transcendental Meditation by itself might be defended as appellants sought to do in this appeal as primarily a relaxation or concentration technique with no ultimate significance,[FN54] the New Jersey course at issue here was not a course in TM alone, but a course in the Science of Creative Intelligence. Creative Intelligence, according to the textbook in the record, is at the basis of all growth and progress and is, indeed, the basis of everything. Transcendental Meditation is presented as a means for contacting this impelling life force so as to achieve inner contentment. Creative Intelligence can provide such contentment because it is a field of unlimited happiness, which is at work everywhere and visible in such diverse places as in the changing of the seasons and the wings of a butterfly. That the existence of such a pervasive and fundamental life force is a matter of ultimate concern can hardly be questioned. It is put forth as the foundation of life and the world itself.[FN55] FN54. The religious significance of TM alone is disputed. It has been defended as wholly consistent with other religious views, and attacked by adherents of those religions as premeated with Hinduism. Compare D. Denniston P. McWilliams, The TM Book 14-19 (1975) With Beware of TM, 19 Christianity Today 1168 (1975). The extent of its involvement with ultimate concerns might well vary from course to course. For a comprehensive survey of the literature for and against TM, and the distinctions between TM and SCI/TM See Note, Transcendental Meditation and The Meaning of Religion Under the Establishment Clause, 62 Minn.L.Rev. 887 (1978). The Minnesota commentator expresses considerable doubt that any TM course could pass constitutional muster. Id. 938-48. FN55. Appellants have argued that Creative Intelligence is a science, not a religion, and that their claims for it are scientifically verifiable. But theology, too, may be regarded as a science, and many theologians in the past have thought that the existence of their God could be proved by reason. It is true that some of those favoring a broad definition of religion have suggested that one indicia of a religious nature is that such beliefs are not based on reason alone, but are to some extent based on faith. See United States v. Kauten, 133 F.2d 703, 708 (2d Cir. 1943); Boyan, Defining Religion in Operational and Institutional Terms, 116 U.Pa.L.Rev. 479, 485-86 (1968). I think it sufficient to conclude that a court cannot accept nor doubt a believer's assertion that his views are true and provable empirically. Such a controversy would involve an examination of the truth or falsity of beliefs rather than their nature. The Science of Creative Intelligence provides answers to questions concerning the nature both of world and man, the underlying sustaining force of the universe, and the way to unlimited happiness. Although it is not as comprehensive as some religions for example, it does not appear to include a complete or absolute moral code it is nonetheless sufficiently comprehensive to avoid the suggestion of an isolated theory unconnected with any particular world view or basic belief system. SCI/TM provides a way, indeed in the eyes of its adherents, The way to full self realization and oneness with the underlying reality of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff no_reply@ wrote: Thats because you are a hugely bright light with the most piercing intellect --- and with the most subtle and sublime wit I have ever read. And I TOTALLY agree with Shemp: superlatives and platitudes absolotuley are the worst possible things on the planet, no, the ENTIRE universe! OK, I missed the joke or at least dismissed it as unlikely, given how anti-TM most people are here. Aren't you anti-TM, Spare Egg? I mean, you spend hourse every day defending it like a father blindly defending his daughter's virginity yet you only do it half the time you are supposed to? Isn't that a kind of contempt? Or a sign of mental illness. Take your pick. Let's start with mental illness. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ [...] His radical body fluctuations reminded me of Bevan Morris. Bevan was our informal course leader at St. Moritz and, at the time, was no more than 150 lbs. Several years later he, of course, ballooned up to what appeared to be his current weight...300 lbs? Of course, the difference between Roth and Bevan is that Roth lost all the weight and it stayed off and Bevan hasn't. I'm working on losing that extra 100+ out of 300 myself. Stress and unstressing can affect people differently. After my two kids were born (out of wedlock, to different mothers, 6 months apart), I went from 160 to 270 in the space of about 15 years, and ballooned even further to 296 in the last 5. Now down to 284 in a few weeks by cutting out soda. Starting to walk again (not easy when you are carrying yourself on your back). My goal is to weigh 200 or less by the end of next year. We will see. Mentally ill, morbidly obese, a TM fanatic who doesn't actually practise TM, and you impregnate single mothers...you're a fucking mess. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- anon_couscous_ff wrote: On the surface -- it feels good. At a deeper level, it raises questions: can other judges offer prayer and bible study as an alternative. Or attandance in a stict muslim madras(sp)? Or as an apprentice in the Moonies' programs? Or attendance at a 12 part tantra sex seminar?* How about a year with Scientology? When those programs offer reams of data demonstrating their efficacy, great. Let's put them to work. Ah,but all TM data is suspect because it is, well, TM data. Never mind if many/most/all of the scientists working on the study don't practice TM. If its TM, its fake data, by definition. Well, sort of, yes. I just read a novel, that perhaps ironically, weaves a lot of scientific studies into the plot. (State of Fear -- Michael Critcheon). One set of studies, that I have vaguely seen over the year -- along with the great cognitive science stuff that periodically comes out -- was on expectations and bias in polling and scientific studies. He cited a number of studies along the lines of sending two genitically identical sets of mice to two sets of labs, where one lab was told (falsely) that the mice were bred specially for intelligence and they were 70% above the norm. The other lab was told the inverse aka stupid mice. Each lab provided results parallel to the expectations. Same with polling -- each poller READS the same quesions from a card, but one set of pllsters are told people on average answer yes 70% of the time. Other set of pollers are told that people generaly answerno 70% of the time. The poll results from all poltsers correllated closely with the expectations. Lotsof similar studies. It does not require ill intentions. But subtle cues of expectations can highly drive and distort results of studies. Why may not be fully clear. But there is a mountain of evidence along these lines. Thus the move towards double blind studies -- where the subjects AND the reserchers don't know who got the real drug and who got the placebo. I'm sorry, but ANY MUM study is suspect due to this exectations pehenomenon. It doesn't mean David OJ, Skip A, Arick A, or Fred T.. or whoever are evil or ill-intentioned, but they live and work and breath in a HIGH expectations environment. The epectations effect is real. I personally don't trust a shred of their resseach. Show me some good old time TOTAL independent research. By people not connected the TMO, who are not new-agey and have no great love of meditation and things mystical. I want to see research by Dennis Hopper -- with a Phd. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/12/06 4:32 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think he's an okay guy. I was on his 6-month course in St. Moritz, summer 1977 (the same one that Turquoise was on). After the course, the next time I saw him was about a year later at MIU. He had gained from the sight of things about 100-150 pounds, which he has obviously lost (he's now down to the skinny body type I knew him from in Switzerland). And, to his credit (or TM's credit) Roth looks virtually the same today (both in weight and complexion) as he did in '77. As I recall, Bobby said he was eating only boiled zucchinis on that course and dropped below 100 pounds. When I came back from that course I was about 125 pounds (I'm now at my average weight of about 170 pounds at 5' 10). Once when a friend was over at my house and I was changing and had my shirt off, the friend asked me to please put my shirt back on. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On Apr 12, 2006, at 4:02 PM, bob_brigante wrote: Unless the court rejects the thinking by the Malnak court (certainly always a possibility in American jurisprudence), the court will find that TM amounts to establishment of religion, And where they'd get a crazy idea like that is beyond me. Cult is a bit more accurate. whether the convict is compelled to do so or offered TM as an option. TM or jail time? It's close. Sal Wholeness vs Holeness? As my son pointed out, bum-rape vs TM? What a choice... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: This has got to be the ABSOLUTE BEST POST i HAVE EVER READ HERE ON fAIRFIELD lIFE Someone else who objects to Bob Roth's style. Ironically, using all caps to express support for someone complaining about someone who speaks in absolutes... um, that was sort of the joke -- along with absolute best post ... Got it finally. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 4/12/06 3:48 PM, sparaig at sparaig@ wrote: Bob Roth has a style that some like and some don't but to call him a blowhard seems, well, unusual. Bobby is a dear friend of mine, although we hardly ever interact because we live in such different worlds these days. We taught and lived together from 1982-84 in Detroit. He has a very good heart, tremendous focus and energy, and is an all around great guy. He was just doing his bit as an MC at the Lynch thing. He's not a gifted public speaker. But a gifted PR guy. He's behind most of the TMO's PR these days. He and I need to have a chat. Don't think we ever have, unless it was during the NLP days. Ask him, if after Valley Forge, if he sleeps with cotton in his ears when camping outside. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you try to walk a little farther every day? Or the same route? Perhaps dedicating about half of your computer time to more walking would help. Of course, who am I to talk? I'm not overweight, but could sure use more exercise. Rightnow, I'm just trying to talk,period. Sprained both ankles a few months back, which doesn't help. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff no_reply@ wrote: Thats because you are a hugely bright light with the most piercing intellect --- and with the most subtle and sublime wit I have ever read. And I TOTALLY agree with Shemp: superlatives and platitudes absolotuley are the worst possible things on the planet, no, the ENTIRE universe! OK, I missed the joke or at least dismissed it as unlikely, given how anti-TM most people are here. Aren't you anti-TM, Spare Egg? I mean, you spend hourse every day defending it like a father blindly defending his daughter's virginity yet you only do it half the time you are supposed to? Isn't that a kind of contempt? Or a sign of mental illness. Take your pick. Let's start with mental illness. Diagnosed with OCD/ADHD as I already pointed out. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Superlatives and platitudes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ [...] His radical body fluctuations reminded me of Bevan Morris. Bevan was our informal course leader at St. Moritz and, at the time, was no more than 150 lbs. Several years later he, of course, ballooned up to what appeared to be his current weight...300 lbs? Of course, the difference between Roth and Bevan is that Roth lost all the weight and it stayed off and Bevan hasn't. I'm working on losing that extra 100+ out of 300 myself. Stress and unstressing can affect people differently. After my two kids were born (out of wedlock, to different mothers, 6 months apart), I went from 160 to 270 in the space of about 15 years, and ballooned even further to 296 in the last 5. Now down to 284 in a few weeks by cutting out soda. Starting to walk again (not easy when you are carrying yourself on your back). My goal is to weigh 200 or less by the end of next year. We will see. Mentally ill, morbidly obese, a TM fanatic who doesn't actually practise TM, and you impregnate single mothers...you're a fucking mess. Well, yeah, but honest about it... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Fundies slam TM Judge
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anon_couscous_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] [...] I'm sorry, but ANY MUM study is suspect due to this exectations pehenomenon. It doesn't mean David OJ, Skip A, Arick A, or Fred T.. or whoever are evil or ill-intentioned, but they live and work and breath in a HIGH expectations environment. The epectations effect is real. I personally don't trust a shred of their resseach. Show me some good old time TOTAL independent research. By people not connected the TMO, who are not new-agey and have no great love of meditation and things mystical. I want to see research by Dennis Hopper -- with a Phd. As I said, the most recent TM research is done by teams of TMing and non-TMing researchers, and even, gasp, by non-TMing researchers all by themselves. One study was done by people with different agendas: mindfulness, TM, and Benson's relaxation response, and the second came out ahead in all areas, while the first was first in only one or two. The third was often worse than the controls. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Always title your messages
WRote a nice article, had my son proof read it and submitted it. Forgot to title it and phhht, it was gone... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
