[FairfieldLife] Re: Yep - you've been Bourqued
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert babajii...@... wrote: (snip) Apparently the book has been banned from campus. Did you really expect to see it at the campus bookstore? Let's git real here, folks... On the one hand you don't see why anyone would find it unusual that Marshy would have sexual desires. OTOH you don't find it unusual that they would ban the book in FF. Hmmm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Using this egroup
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Carol de Giere carol@ wrote: Hello all, Checking on the Yahoo group site, there are 19 people on this public, unmoderated list. When I signed up I imagined this egroup as a venue for people telling what cool things are happening and I imagined hundreds of people on it. Not that we don't read about such things in the Weekly Reader anyway but this could be a way for more info to come out or be updated as needed. It's nice for people to have an outlet for expressing concerns but I can't help but feel shy about it being so public and all. There's much more harmony in the atmosphere here than there has been in a long time and I'd like to see us take advantage of that. I'm one who has grumbled about there not being enough love in the TM movement's language or attitudes, but when I decided I better seek for it I noticed more what is there. I'm sorry for those who are still left out and I wish there was a way to fix that, but I'm grateful for the good that is there. I don't know the best way to use this form of communication for Fairfield. Perhaps there could be several lists over time. One for fun and sharing of lighter topics. I have concerns I wouldn't mind sharing but not in print here open for the world at this time. Know what I mean? Yep, it's like living in North Korea. Banned books, people scared to voice opinions. Isn't all this against the constitution? PS I know this post is 10 years old and Nabby posted it by mistake, all those little buttons can be confusing, eh Nabs :D
[FairfieldLife] Psychic finds reincarnated dogs!
Animal Psychic Searches for Reincarnated Pets Pet psychics are serious about their jobs. Dead serious. In fact, to find a missing pet, pet psychics like Ellen Kohn http://www.enlightenedanimals.com/ will turn to reincarnation -- looking into an animals' past lives -- for clues to where it might be. This was the case last year when Christine Horowitz lost her 13-year-old golden shepherd, Dina, to cancer. Distraught, Horowitz remembered Kohn, who had mentioned contacting animals in the afterlife during a previous consultation about her mother's missing cat. [Dinner for Schmucks] Animals psychics say they're often the butt of jokes -- like in the upcoming Steve Carell film Dinner for Schmucks. But they say they provide a valuable service for pet owners who need help communicating with their animals. Ellen Kohn takes her work very seriously, and customers pay $90 an hour for consultations. I have worked with other animal communicators, but I didn't know any that could find pets reincarnated, Horowitz said. I trusted [Kohn], but I was like, 'How would we find this puppy? Thousands are born every day.' But when Kohn began channeling the deceased dog and asked Horowitz about Dina putting her paws on her shoulders, Horowitz was sold -- she and Dina would often dance around, always with Dina's paws on her shoulders. Sure enough, Kohn kept talking with Dina's spirit, who led her to a picture on Petfinder.com http://www.petfinder.com/index.html of a puppy that jumped out at her, and Horowitz eagerly visited Dina's possible incarnation. Nine months later, Horowitz is sure this new dog, a foxhound-mix named Annie, is Dina. Even my husband, who normally doesn't believe these things, is like, 'Oh that's what Dina use to do,' Horowitz explained. And Kohn pulled it off all in a day's work -- a workday that is often the butt of pop culture jokes. There's even a new movie, Dinner for Schmucks, coming out July 30 that has a pet psychic named Nora melodramatically channeling the pain of a nearby lobster being boiled for dinner. The reality of this group of mostly women (who prefer the term animal communicator since they speak directly to the animals and don't use any medium like tarot cards) is quite a bit more involved than finding animals stuck on a low rung of Buddhism's reincarnation cycle or feeling dinner's pain. Most of Kohn's work, in fact, deals with the living. After chatting with hundreds of animals, she has performed a variety of services, including locating pets that have wandered off, getting a finicky iguana to eat and counseling a horse prone to anxiety attacks. The animal doesn't even have to be present for Kohn to chat them up. After grounding herself with a Kabbalistic prayer, getting her prayer stone (a quartz) and touching base with her animal spirit guides, she can be shown a photo or even just talk to the pet owner to make a connection. Kohn then silently projects messages to the pet, all while taking notes on the words, pictures or feelings the pet sends back. Before becoming an animal communicator, Kohn did research analysis for government agencies, straight work that left her unfulfilled and looking for something more meaningful. She found her calling 10 years ago when her youngest son was diagnosed with Legg-Perthes disease, a degenerative hip condition. During his surgery, Kohn met a healing touch professional who encouraged her to work with animals. Kohn trained with mentors, first learning to do energy healing and then eventually began communicating when the animals she was working on began to talk to her, telling her what ailed them. Kohn says talking to deceased pets ended up being a lot like talking to the living. So far, she has been asked to find only a few reincarnations, but she regularly talks to pets in the beyond for her clients. All her work is possible, she says, by tapping into the metaphysical giant universal pool of consciousness that we all have access to, even if we don't use it. But more and more people are learning to take a dip in that pool, thanks to people like Carol Gurney, who established the Gurney Institute of Animal Communication http://www.gurneyinstitute.com/main.html in 2008 after working in the field for 20 years. She has since trained thousands of would-be communicators. Gurney said in an e-mail that she has seen the number of animal communicators rise from hundreds to thousands in recent years. She attributes this increase to people gaining more awareness about other members of kingdom Animalia. People are truly beginning to realize that animals are not just physical beings here for our entertainment, Gurney said, but that they have thoughts and feelings and need to be treated as such. The growing number of animal communicators can also be explained by looking at the booming pet industry, with U.S. pet owners expected to spend a pretty $47.7 billion this year, over $2 billion more than last year, according to American Pet Products
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Fairfield, Give Peace a chance/Rick is Enlightened!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: snip Seriously, what's sad are, like I mentioned previously, the mental gyrations Judy is going through in order to be able to keep the faith. Um, no, Judy doesn't have to go through any mental gyrations, sorry. If you're seeing gyrations, they're a function of your problems following simple logic and quite straightforward arguments. They exist only in your confused mind. The first step towards getting over a problem is realising you've got one.
[FairfieldLife] World continues to heat up
Global warming pushes 2010 temperatures to record highs Global temperatures in the first half of the year were the hottest since records began more than a century ago, according to two of the world's leading climate research centres. Scientists have also released what they described as the best evidence yet of rising long-term temperatures. The report is the first to collate 11 different indicators from air and sea temperatures to melting ice each one based on between three and seven data sets, dating back to between 1850 and the 1970s. The newly released data follows months of scrutiny of climate science after sceptics claimed leaked emails from the University of East Anglia (UEA) suggested temperature records had been manipulated - a charge rejected by three inquiries. Publishing the newly collated data in London, Peter Stott, the head of climate modelling at the UK Met Office, said despite variations between individual years, the evidence was unequivocal: When you follow those decade-to-decade trends then you see clearly and unmistakably signs of a warming world. That's a very remarkable result, that all those data sets agree, he added. It's the clearest evidence in one place from a range of different indices. Currently 1998 is the hottest year on record. Two combined land and sea surface temperature records from Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) and the US National Climatic Data Centre (NCDC) both calculate that the first six months of 2010 were the hottest on record. According to GISS, four of the six months also individually showed record highs. One key data set omitted was sea ice in the Antarctic, because it was increasing in some areas and decreasing in others, due to reduced ozone causing changes in wind patterns and sea-surface circulation. This data set showed no clear trend, said Stott. These figures were also in the last report from the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/climate-change (IPCC) in 2007. It's not that the IPCC didn't look at this data, of course they did, but they didn't put it all together in one place, he added. The cause of the warming was dominated by greenhouse gases emitted by human activity, said Stott. It's possible there's some [other] process which can amplify other effects, such as radiation from the sun, [but] the evidence is so clear the chance there's something we haven't thought of seems to be getting smaller and smaller, he said. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/28/global-temperatures-20\ 10-record http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/28/global-temperatures-2\ 010-record
[FairfieldLife] Astrology better at predicting inflation than economists!
Horoscope beats economists in inflation forecasting By economics correspondent Stephen Long http://abc.net.au/news/people/stephenlong/?site=news - analysis Updated Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:26am AEST [Reflection of people passing by the Reserve Bank of Australia in Sydney] http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201007/r597020_3859592.jpg JK Galbraith, a giant of 20th century economics, said the purpose of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable. This week's inflation numbers bear out his maxim. This week, the horoscope was at least as good a guide as the economic modelling of the pundits. Markets were expecting a rise of 1 per cent in the June quarter; that was the average and median forecast of the financial market economists paid to pick these things. The lowest prediction of the pundits was a rise of 0.8 per cent. In fact, the official headline rate came in just 0.6 per cent and the underlying rate even lower, at 0.5 per cent. Now the market economists usually get it wrong, but in the catalogue of failed forecasts, that's right up there. And one of the market pundits says it's not unusual to be wrong. The dirty little secret of economists, is that very few people are very good a forecasting anything that matters, said Rory Robertson, the interest rate strategist at Macquarie Bank, pulling no punches. Everyone knows in their heart of hearts that the future is unknowable and that fact makes forecasting inherently unreliable, he added. None more so than the prognosticator at Merrill Lynch who tipped a 1.2 per cent surge in the inflation rate; he would have been better off consulting the heavenly bodies. Not much harmony and understanding on the campaign trail, but its hard to see the surprisingly soft inflation reading as anything but good news for Labor. It spares it the political pain suffered by the Howard government in the lead-up to the 2007 poll - an interest rate rise, in the middle of the campaign. Because one forecast can now be made with absolute confidence: the Reserve Bank will not lift the cash rate when its board meets next week. This was a remarkably low number, said Westpac's chief economist Bill Evans, who was forecasting a rate rise next week prior to the inflation numbers. The core number which the Reserve Bank relies on for its policy decisions printed 0.5 [per cent]; our forecast was 0.9 [per cent]. I think 0.9 would have delivered a rate hike; on 0.5 we can absolutely be confident that there'll be no change in rates next week. Despite the forecasting failures, Rory Robertson says that, for the pundits, the inflation figure was a good outcome. Economists wanted a big one where a rate hike was sure, or a little one where rate hike was not happening. A 0.8 would have been a nightmare because many of us would have spent the next week umming and ahing about whether there would be or wouldn't be a rate hike, he explained. With a 0.5 on the Reserve Bank's best measure of core inflation, there's no rate hike next week. In fact it looks like the Reserve Bank will be on hold for the next three months at least, and I'm guessing the Reserve Bank will be on hold at 4.5 per cent into 2011. The numbers will be no surprise to Gerry Harvey at Harvey Norman http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/26/2964548.htm , or the bosses of Woolies http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/21/2959902.htm and Coles http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/26/2964094.htm . They reckon there's a price war underway to get customers in the door and spending. The inflation reading also confirms that the interest rate rises delivered so far by the Reserve Bank and the retail banks are biting and that despite the low unemployment rate, parts of the economy are still in pain. The household sector right now is dealing with the biggest uplift in mortgage rates in at least two decades in that the shift in mortgage rates of 1.6 percentage points, to about 6.75 per cent, is in fact the sharpest lift in mortgage rates in two decades, Rory Robertson explained. So I think it's increasingly clear that that is having the desired dampening effect on the household demand where basically consumption growth is sluggish, home building, local government building approvals have peaked. It's clear that the up trend in home prices has completely stalled. Also it's clear, and you can see that in the prices day to day, that the tourism sector in Australia is on its knees. We know the economy is strong on average but much of the strength is via the resources sector. Lots of other parts of the economy are sluggish at best And you don't need any powers of divination to see that. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/29/2967360.htm http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/29/2967360.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Chelsea's Wedding
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: She should have consulted a jyotishi to pick a better date for her wedding. The conjunction of Mars and Saturn is still in effect which is not a good muhurta or time for starting important activities. In addition, most Americans get married on Saturday, a day owned by a malefic Saturn. This is another reason why the divorce rate in the USA is very high. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/07/28/airspace-to-be-closed-near-clinton-wedding/?hp So, because Saturday is named after a planet that was thought to be a God by ancient Romans, anything that happens on that day is doomed because of what they associated it with? Wow. But then the Romans had Saturn as the God of the harvest so Saturday would be a good day to get things done I would have thought, you know reaping benefits, which things grow etc. Unless the ancient Indians had different interpretations for what the planets do. Which makes no sense at all, at least no more than the rest of astrology. PS Why would Saturn only affect us en-masse on one day of the week? A good sign that an idea is a very poor one is if it makes less sense the more you ask of it. Back to the drawing board.
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Fairfield, Give Peace a chance/Rick is Enlightened!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip By referring to lesh avidya Jerry tries to minimize how imperfect the guy was. Maharishi likened this remains of ignorance to the greasiness left on the hand when throwing off a butter ball (never explaining why one would have it in your hand in the first place or where it might land), Metaphorically challenged much? the ignorance remaining with the enlightened man still in a body. He was referring to some remaining sense of duality in perceptions. He wasn't talking about banging nubile devotees in his 50's, a complete breakdown of trust in his position. Well, he wasn't *telling* you that kind of behavior could be a function of lesh avidya. It sounds like Jerry might have been, though. Jerry may not have intended to minimize MMY's sins so much as expand our understanding of lesh avidya. I can think of several reasons why MMY might not have given you the expanded version. Some of them are more or less scurrilous, but one of them might not be. Can you imagine what it could be? So once again Jerry in his aw-shucks manor, much as he did when he told the governors at MIU that we lost the court case because of the impure lives of the initiators, offloads the blame to OUR mistaken impression of the guy. Wow. I didn't see anything in Rick's account suggesting Jerry was offloading blame. And blame for what? For MMY's misbehavior?? That makes no sense. It is a false comparative. We may or may not have believed he was perfect as per his own teaching about attaining perfection in enlightenment, but we expected him to rise above the bar of exploitative butthole. That is pretty far from the expectation that he was some kind of Avatar don't you think? I'm an imperfect human too but that doesn't give me a pass on treating women with respect and as more than just the latest hot biker chick to join the gang. First, nobody's giving him a pass. That's a big fat straw man. Second, you haven't devoted your entire life to doing something you believe is going to save the world, either. Even if you don't believe in enlightenment, the dude was working his tail off for the well-being of other people. That doesn't excuse the misbehavior, of course--sexual and otherwise--but it puts something pretty weighty on the positive side of the ledger that you can't seem to bring yourself to acknowledge. Most of us are a mixture of good and bad, but most of us also have pretty piddling little piles of each. Is it really fair for us to point proudly to the smallness of our pile of bad and feel smugly more virtuous than someone with a much bigger pile of bad when their pile of good is a whole lot bigger than ours as well? What's the *percentage* of bad vs. good in a person's life? All our lives are equal in that each one of them adds up to 100 percent. If we're going to compare the virtue of one life with that of another, shouldn't we be comparing ratios? If I get all snooty and think myself more virtuous than you because I've always paid my taxes and you're in jail for tax evasion, does it change the picture if you've also spent your entire life looking for a cure for cancer, while I've spent mine running a fashion emporium for pets? Great post, if we were dealing with a pet shop owner. But we aren't. A pet shop owner who tries to hide inconvenient kids with a surrogate to protect his reputation can still be a pet shop owner. An enlightened man, not so much. Which I think is the main problem with your bizarre rationalisation, trouble is you conveniently deleted most of Curtises excellent points so it's hard to tell.
[FairfieldLife] Fatwa for psychic octopus?
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad attacks Octopus Paul Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian leader, says Paul the Octopus, the sea creature that correctly predicted the outcome of World Cup games, is a symbol of all that is wrong with the western world. Published: 1:30PM BST 27 Jul 2010 [Mahmoud Ahmadinejad attacks Octopus Paul ] He claims that the octopus is a symbol of decadence and decay among his enemies. Paul, who lives at the Oberhausen Sea Life Centre, in Germany, won the hearts of the Spanish by predicting their World Cup victory. He became an international star after predicting the outcome of all seven German World Cup matches accurately. However, the Iranian president accused the octopus of spreading western propaganda and superstition. Paul was mentioned by Mr Ahmadinejad on various occasions during a speech in Tehran at the weekend. Those who believe in this type of thing cannot be the leaders of the global nations that aspire, like Iran, to human perfection, basing themselves in the love of all sacred values, he said. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/7912418/Mahmoud\ -Ahmadinejad-attacks-Octopus-Paul.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/7912418/Mahmou\ d-Ahmadinejad-attacks-Octopus-Paul.html
[FairfieldLife] World to end next year!
Cancel the pension scheme, armageddon days are here again! The end is not just nigh, it's in May 2011: Springs woman touts Armageddon's date Marie Exley http://topics.gazette.com/Marie+Exley/ of Colorado Springs http://topics.gazette.com/Colorado+Springs/ is convinced that Armageddon, the end of the world as written of in the Bible, will come next year. Her conviction is so strong that, though unemployed, she's paid $1,200 to buy advertising space http://topics.gazette.com/advertising+space/ on 10 Springs bus benches through October to get the word out. The ad says, Save the Date! Return of Christ: http://topics.gazette.com/Christ/ May 21, 2011, WeCanKnow.com. I want to do all I can to get the message out, Exley, 31, said. Exley got the idea for the ads from listening to Family Radio, a Christian broadcast heard on 55 stations in the United States, including KFRY, http://topics.gazette.com/KFRY/ 89.9 FM, in Pueblo. It's hosted by controversial Christian leader Harold Camping. http://topics.gazette.com/Harold+Camping/ Camping predicts Christ http://topics.gazette.com/Christ/ will return on the date in Exley's advertisement. Listeners in other states have also purchased outdoor ad space http://topics.gazette.com/ad+space/ to proclaim the date. The ads are written and designed by the creators of WeCanKnow.com, an Ohio-based web site devoted to reminding people of Christ's return. We hope it raises awareness and sends people to their Bible, said Robert Dunham, http://topics.gazette.com/Robert+Dunham/ spokesman for WeCanKnow.com. Time is running out, but there is still time for salvation. Predicting Christ's return and how the world would end is a controversial subject within Christianity. Camping teaches that it will happen with Christ's return, followed by Armageddon, in which nonbelievers are destroyed by fire, and the Rapture, in which believers are taken up to heaven. Christian leaders have predicted the imminent end of the world since the founding of the faith. Some who base their ideas on the Mayan calendar say the world will end in 2012. But others say the time of Christ's return and world's end can never be known. It's just wrong, said John Fuller, http://topics.gazette.com/John+Fuller/ pastor of Harbor Lights Church http://topics.gazette.com/Harbor+Lights+Church/ in Colorado Springs. http://topics.gazette.com/Colorado+Springs/ Those who make predictions are just trying to get recognition for themselves. Exley has bittersweet feelings about Camping's prediction. There are things I felt I always wanted to do get married, have a kid, travel more, she said. But it's not about what I want out of life. It's about what God wants. Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/unemployed-102074-springs-funded.html#ix\ zz0uzYDCbnK http://www.gazette.com/articles/unemployed-102074-springs-funded.html#i\ xzz0uzYDCbnK
[FairfieldLife] Re: Crop Circle: Woolaston Grange, Gloucestershire. Reported 18th July.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: snip Woolaston Grange, Nr Clap-Y-Ares. Gloucestershire. Reported 18th July. snip The formation itself has interesting features such as the two small circles on the outside of one of the waves plus two mysterious wave patterns between the two major waves with a third small circle next to one of them. Very intriguing The three little circles *are* intriguing. Crop circles don't usually have extraneous, random-looking bits that aren't part of the overall larger pattern. I hope somebody's working on puzzling out what the little circles could possibly be indicating. I've been working on it. It's my considered opinion that the small extra circles were caused by the drunk hippies who made the crap secondary circles being told to stand outside the main ones until the more experienced guys had finished. Be honest, it isn't very good really is it? All wobbly and amateurish. Gee, not sure what criteria you're using. It doesn't look wobbly to me, it looks pretty precise. It can't be easy to get all those circles to intersect properly. I wasn't talking about the ones that intersect but the smaller ones at the bottom, they aren't very good. Maybe you're referring to the way the tracks the farmer makes when he's plowing get in the way of the pattern? There isn't much the circle-makers can do about those except place the pattern so the interference is minimized, which they appear to have done here. At any rate, it looks to me like about the same degree of precision as most of the more elaborate crop circles. Crop fields are an inherently somewhat fuzzy medium, after all. Kind of the point I was making. Did you see the Wave Interaction diagram that was in the original post? Is the diagram actually of wave interaction? If so, is that a reasonable guess at what the crop pattern is meant to represent? Is there any way a wave interaction pattern could have something to do with nuclear power generation, as the text speculates? Yes. Possibly. Possibly. No. I haven't the foggiest idea. Sooner or later the people that make them will retire and point out to the Nabby's of this world the ones they made and what they meant. It won't be anything profound, it's just art, sometimes they use common signs and symbols other times not. It must be great for them that they get all this mystical meaning attached to them if I didn't like my early bedtimes I'd probably have a go myself, it isn't all that difficult onve you've got the hang of it. Then you can sit back and watch the folklore evolve. If anyone can look at that bodge-up and think it's the work of a non-human intelligence, I'll be amazed. Hmmm, I suppose it could be a drunk non-human intelligence. Or maybe even the Space Brothers make mistakes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Crop Circle: Woolaston Grange, Gloucestershire. Reported 18th July.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brian64705 no_re...@... wrote: Rick, The wikipedia entry for crop circles is mostly skeptical and begins with the Doug and Dave story - 2 guys who claim to have made ALL of the crop circles in the 1970's. However since those days they have become very complex and noone that I am aware of has come forward to claim responsibility. Two of the most remarkable in my view was the digital response to the SETI broadcast to outer space by Carl Sagan. And the mysterious face of an ET in the crops shown in this rather poor video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KoR2t-iM9k DD never claimed to make *all* the crop circles in the 70s. If you want to know who makes them now check out: www.circlemakers.org Especially the New Documents section where they mention being filmed making a highly complex crop pattern designed by a mathematician that was filmed for a TV doc, very interesting as I'd always thought they would be using stuff like GPS or night vision goggles but no, it's all done the traditional way with planks and string. Hmm, I feel like I've typed all that before The thing is Brian if people have been doing this for ages you'd expect them to get better at it, I would anyway. And did you ever wonder why aliens would come all this way just to tread patterns in wheat fields? Bit weird behaviour, though undeniably alien. What do they do with the rest of the year once the crops have been harvested, go home? Or just wait around in southern England for someone else to grow something they can tread on? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brian64705 Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:41 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Crop Circle: Woolaston Grange, Gloucestershire. Reported 18th July. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc8uZgCccoA This video consists of 33 different crop circles that appeared in 2009. Creating 33 different crop circles within a 6 month time period in multiple countries is humanly impossible and would take a massive amount of air, ground and space coordination that could never be kept quiet from the public. No one denies that there have been man made crop circles, but when those circles are barely examined closely... they are all easily seen to be geometrically flawed and take days if not weeks to months to create... and unlike a real crop circle, the crops are killed. Are ordinary mortals ever caught in the act of creating these? If people were making them, it seems they would need lights and some sort of machinery, and would leave tracks. Interesting use of terrestrial symbols in some of them, such as insects, jellyfish, yin yang, etc. If they are from out there, they're clearly familiar with what goes on down here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Fairfield, Give Peace a chance
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Stop the fabricating, Brian. Here is the correct first quote, with links, as it actually appears. (NB: No mention at all of the ME.) And links to the third, fourth and fifth ones, several of which are simply sites set up by TM shills. Good point. I was wondering what other coherence-creating groups on conflict that he may be referring to. Sounded interesting -- I speculated on prayer groups, chanting, drum-circles, modern equivalent to be-ins - Burning Man and all, nationa -- like 4th of July type -- celebrations choirs, mass religious ceremonies, perhaps daily prayers at a large mosque, yagyas, large cathedral services, nationally televised religious services - perhaps native american ceremonies -- and wondered if arena events -- sports or concerts -- might be involved. Or Global events like the World Cup and Olympics where the entire world is focussed on generally uplifting things. Even the day a new CD or film is released and people around the globe are seeing / hearing it together on the same day (or opening weekend). Or even hit TV shows. Political conventions -- wow thats a stretch -- maybe those are chaos-creating events, solstice and equinox celebrations, an on and on. Personally, I think these sorts of things have an effect. How much and of what quality -- I have not idea. My mouth was watering to see great research on these types of things. However, the only sites that came up upon a search of coherence-creating groups on conflict and coherence-creating groups was ME and Invincibility studies on TM group programs. Are you aware of other coherence-creating groups on conflict that Gurr may have been referring to? You could try these guys http://noosphere.princeton.edu/ I wrote to them once after I got back from a major WPA (The Dubrovnik Peace Project) enquiring as to whether they had measured any changes in their data during that and other WPAs that I knew of. They hadn't. It's been so long since I last looked at this site that I can't recall what it was they measure but it seems to be all here still. Wikipedia will know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Consciousness_Project Ah yes, random number generators. I've taken part in a few studies to test those myself. Didn't work. (And isn't Gurr a wonderfully ironic name for someone doing peace studies?) Oui!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Crop Circle: Woolaston Grange, Gloucestershire. Reported 18th July.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brian64705 no_re...@... wrote: Hugo, I agree many crop circles are man-made. One researcher alleged 80% are man-made. There have been a couple of good documentaries shown in Fairfield on it. The most interesting research is in the strange nodes that appear on the stems of the plants that have been laid down. I've seen a bit of this but the guys claim that this is evidence of a non-human intelligence impresses not a lot. And there has been video of strange orbs around in broad daylight in the vicinity of the formations. The videos are all known fakes I'm afraid. What surprises me is no-one claims to have made the more elaborate ones. The one on the circlemakers website that was designed by a mathematician was very complex, and designed to be so. They strolled through it using just planks and rope. If I'd gone to al that trouble I would want to tell at least my friends of my creations! Ah well this is the trouble, you can't project what you would do into other peoples minds and then use that as evidence. I suspect that the people behind this are loving every minute of the mythos that is growing up around their creations. I would be! Basically, we know that most CCs are made by human hand and in one night so why not all of them? I was not at all interested in the subject till the I saw Steven Greer give a lecture in Bermuda prior to his now famous Disclosure Project press conference at the National Press Club in Washington DC. He actually announced he was holding the Press Conference at the event I attended in Bermuda. I was not interested in the subject till then, because it seemed of no importance one way or another. He opened my eyes to the importance of the issue. Next generation transportation, communication and energy technologies. Brian Not sure how any of that fits in with crop circles but I did see an illuminating movie about an artist called Bill Witherspoon. Coincidentally but irrelevantly a TMer. He was (probably still is) into living in the desert to get away from it all, he once had an idea to make a huge mandala in the desert floor and got some of his friends in to help the result was amazing and when it was discovered by a passing USAF jet it made headline news. Experts were called in to examine it and declared it impossible to have been done by humans. Bill enjoyed the legends for a while then admitted it was him. Beware the experts! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brian64705 no_reply@ wrote: Rick, The wikipedia entry for crop circles is mostly skeptical and begins with the Doug and Dave story - 2 guys who claim to have made ALL of the crop circles in the 1970's. However since those days they have become very complex and noone that I am aware of has come forward to claim responsibility. Two of the most remarkable in my view was the digital response to the SETI broadcast to outer space by Carl Sagan. And the mysterious face of an ET in the crops shown in this rather poor video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KoR2t-iM9k DD never claimed to make *all* the crop circles in the 70s. If you want to know who makes them now check out: www.circlemakers.org Especially the New Documents section where they mention being filmed making a highly complex crop pattern designed by a mathematician that was filmed for a TV doc, very interesting as I'd always thought they would be using stuff like GPS or night vision goggles but no, it's all done the traditional way with planks and string. Hmm, I feel like I've typed all that before The thing is Brian if people have been doing this for ages you'd expect them to get better at it, I would anyway. And did you ever wonder why aliens would come all this way just to tread patterns in wheat fields? Bit weird behaviour, though undeniably alien. What do they do with the rest of the year once the crops have been harvested, go home? Or just wait around in southern England for someone else to grow something they can tread on? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brian64705 Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 1:41 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Crop Circle: Woolaston Grange, Gloucestershire. Reported 18th July. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc8uZgCccoA This video consists of 33 different crop circles that appeared in 2009. Creating 33 different crop circles within a 6 month time period in multiple countries is humanly impossible and would take a massive amount of air, ground and space coordination that could never be kept quiet from
[FairfieldLife] Re: Crop Circle: Woolaston Grange, Gloucestershire. Reported 18th July.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: snip Woolaston Grange, Nr Clap-Y-Ares. Gloucestershire. Reported 18th July. snip The formation itself has interesting features such as the two small circles on the outside of one of the waves plus two mysterious wave patterns between the two major waves with a third small circle next to one of them. Very intriguing The three little circles *are* intriguing. Crop circles don't usually have extraneous, random-looking bits that aren't part of the overall larger pattern. I hope somebody's working on puzzling out what the little circles could possibly be indicating. I've been working on it. It's my considered opinion that the small extra circles were caused by the drunk hippies who made the crap secondary circles being told to stand outside the main ones until the more experienced guys had finished. Be honest, it isn't very good really is it? All wobbly and amateurish. If anyone can look at that bodge-up and think it's the work of a non-human intelligence, I'll be amazed. Hmmm, I suppose it could be a drunk non-human intelligence. Or maybe even the Space Brothers make mistakes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: In Fairfield, Give Peace a chance
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter L Sutphen drpetersutp...@... wrote: If you know anything about research you will see that almost every single ME study is deeply flawed which makes the conclusions invalid. The only study that had any sort of scientific rigor was an Israel study that supported a very weak ME. Peter I think that one was comprehensively rubbished too. The claim is that of a field effect, thus the effect should spread out in a circle yet the claimed effects were measured in Lebanon whereas the nearby towns in Israel didn't show the same results. But we are only talking minor statistics anyway, the war in Lebanon was a typically vicious affair I doubt you'll find many Arabs talking about the calming effects of the group med! Add the obvious failure of the IA, the longest running WPA, and you can see the statistics level out. They've also quietly changed the number of CPs required by 500. It's back to the drawing board for the ME, I think. On Jul 24, 2010, at 9:18 AM, Buck dhamiltony...@... wrote: Positive influence of group meditations is immediate and profound Extensive published research shows that coherence and positivity are created in collective consciousness when a small number of people practice Transcendental Meditation and its advanced Yogic Flying technique together in a group. This rise of positivity in collective consciousness reduces negative trends, including crime and violence, and improves economic trends. Rigorous statistical analysis shows that the upsurge of positive trends started on the month the Assembly beganâJuly 2006âwhen an initial group of 1200 experts assembled from across the U.S. and around the world to practice these technologies in a group, said Dr. Hagelin, who added that when the number of group meditation experts rises from its current average of 1850 to the desired level of 2500, America will rise to become a true powerhouse of peace. Twenty-five hundred is the number required to create a far more profound and comprehensive shift in these positive trends away from violence towards peace, Dr. Hagelin said. The Invincible America Assembly has been funded by a grant from the Howard and Alice Settle Foundation for an Invincible America. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: Crop Circle: Woolaston Grange, Gloucestershire. Reported 18th July.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Be honest, it isn't very good really is it? All wobbly and amateurish. If anyone can look at that bodge-up and think it's the work of a non-human intelligence, I'll be amazed. Hmmm, I suppose it could be a drunk non-human intelligence. Or maybe even the Space Brothers make mistakes. You're all hats, no cattle. A scared little human being who has no idea about what is going on. You seem to have missed the transistion. When did you meditate last ? Missed the transition? How could anyone do that? And I last meditated this morning, when I've typed this I shall go do it again. The increased coherence when I do should be obvious. Heaven will walk on earth in this generation It'd better hurry, the world's all going to shit. - His Divine Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi Please, along with your friends, create this pattern within 20 minutes during a night. 20 minutes? who said it took twenty minutes? No ? Thought so. Hey, give me a chance! These people have had years of practise. All hat, no cattle. http://www.earthfiles.com/shop.php Fosbury nr Vernham Dean, Wiltshire. Reported 17th July. Map Ref: Google Map http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.30226,-1.537271num=1t=hsll=51.302\ 367,-1.537399sspn=0.019828,0.055275hl=enie=UTF8ll=51.302045,-1.53739\ 9spn=0.020499,0.055275z=15 This Page has been accessed [Hit Counter] Updated Wednesday 21st July 2010 http://www.7fires.net/ AERIAL SHOTS http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2010/fosbury/fosbury2010a.html GROUND SHOTS http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2010/fosbury/groundshots.html DIAGRAMS http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2010/fosbury/diagrams.html FIELD REPORTS http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2010/fosbury/fieldreports.html COMMENTS http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2010/fosbury/comments.html ARTICLES http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2010/fosbury/articles.html 21/07/10 18/07/10 19/07/10 17/07/10 19/07/10 21/07/10 An amazing Hypercube has appeared below the Fosbury Hill fort on Haydown Hill. Once again we see glimpses of other dimensions. This is now the third in what appears to be a sequence of formations so far. Another move toward higher dimensions. Julian Gibsone (Director of the Crop Circle Connector's DVD's) http://www.cccvault.com/cccvideos/trailer09c.html http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=122251217802800v=wall Discuss this circle on Facebook CIRCLE CHASERS ON FACEBOOK http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=122251217802800v=wall http://www.cccvault.com/cccvideos/trailer2010a.html CLICK HERE FOR THE LATEST CROP CIRCLE CONNECTOR DVD http://www.cccvault.com/cccvideos/trailer2010a.html http://www.thecropcircleshop.com/ Make a donation to keep the web site alive... Thank you Images John Montgomery Copyright 2010 http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/anasazi/conduct.html As an additional attraction to this latest crop circle. Conholt House has the Foot Maze http://www.sacredbritain.com/cropcircles.html Images Lucy Pringle http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/ Copyright 2010 http://www.cropcircleconnectorforum.com/ Images Steve Alexander http://www.temporarytemples.co.uk/ Copyright 2010 Images Patrick Marty - www.savoirperdu.com http://www.savoirperdu.com/ Copyright 2010
[FairfieldLife] Institutionalised racism in Israel
Saber Kushour: 'My conviction for rape by deception has ruined my life' Saber Kushour, an Arab Israeli convicted of 'rape by deception' of a Jewish woman, gives his side of the story in an exclusive interview * Harriet Sherwood http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/harrietsherwood in Jerusalem * The Observer http://observer.guardian.co.uk/ , Sunday 25 July 2010 [Saber Kushour convicted Israeli Arab ] Saber Kushour apologises as he asks his guests to move the plastic chairs on his breeze-block balcony a little closer to the door to his house. If he were to sit where they are now, he explains, the electronic tag attached to his ankle would set off an alarm. Kushour's edginess is understandable he is recalling a 15-minute encounter almost two years ago which he says has destroyed my life. Last week the married father of two from east Jerusalem was sentenced to 18 months in jail for the rape by deception of a Jewish woman who claimed she would not have had sex with him had she known he was an Arab. What might have been a tawdry episode casting neither Kushour nor the woman in a favourable light exploded into a debate in Israel http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/israel about racism, sexual mores and justice. I am paying the price for a mistake that she made, Kushour, 30, told the Observer. I was shocked at the sentence it shows a very vivid and clear racism. The message from the judge, he says, was that because you are an Arab and you didn't make that clear, we are going to punish you. In his verdict, Judge Zvi Segal conceded that it was not a classical rape by force. He added: If she hadn't thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have co-operated. The court is obliged to protect the public interest from sophisticated, smooth-tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price the sanctity of their bodies and souls. At his home in Sharafat, where he is confined while awaiting an appeal, Kushour tells a different story. The woman has not been identified and has not gone public with her account. Kushour was buying cigarettes in September 2008 when an unexpected opportunity presented itself for a casual sexual encounter. Any person in my shoes would have done the same thing, he says. A woman in her 20s struck up a conversation as he left the shop to return to his job delivering legal papers around Jerusalem by scooter. She said 'you have a nice bike' and other things which I don't remember. Within minutes, he says, he realised that her interest was not confined to small talk. Kushour speaks fluent, unaccented Hebrew, as do many Palestinians living and working in Jerusalem. The woman asked his name and Kushour replied Dudu a common Israeli name. Since I was a kid everyone calls me Dudu even my wife calls me Dudu. It's a nickname. At no point, he says, did the woman who gave her name as Maya ask if he was Jewish, although he has acknowledged that he said he was single. The pair went to a small roof area in a nearby office block. When we were having sex, she was worried that someone would see us, but she never told me to stop. She was more than willing she initiated it. It has been suggested that Kushour presented himself as a bachelor interested in a long-term relationship. If that had been Maya's concern, Kushour points out, she might have asked him more about his background. After the brief encounter, Kushour tapped Maya's mobile number into his phone and left. I didn't treat her like garbage this is what she wanted. Unknown to him, Maya contacted the police after the encounter to lodge a complaint. Kushour says he doesn't know how or when she realised he was not Jewish. The woman was given a medical examination, presented in court, which showed, according to Kushour, no signs of force or injury. Six weeks later Kushour was idly flicking through numbers in his mobile's address book. I saw 'Maya' and I thought 'who is Maya?' I had already forgotten about her. I rang the number to see who it was, and then I realised it was the girl. I said 'Can I see you?' and we arranged to meet. Maya didn't show up and didn't respond to Kushour's calls and texts. But, crucially, she now had a vital piece of information for the pursuit of her complaint his contact details. Three days later Kushour received a phone call from the police. They told me I had a problem and to come to the police station. He was interrogated for five to six hours, without a lawyer. In the final hour of questioning, the police began to mention a rape claim. Eventually Kushour was handcuffed and taken to a cell. Over three days the questioning continued. This was the hardest moment of my entire life, says Kushour. I didn't have a clue what they were going to do. On the third day, Kushour was taken to court by this time represented by a lawyer found by his brother and charged with rape. He spent the next two months in
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jerry addresses IA, one of the Nazis gets canned
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride bill.hicks.all.a.ride@ wrote: This from IA: If you read this its a update on the IA course and the Dome There is happiness and delight as the true enlightened leader graced our presence in the Dome,Jerry Jarvis after 30 years.When asked about it,Well i did build it ,, Well, I did build it. Yes, seems that is true. Jerry J. was a university Trustee in earlier days. He got moved out by Domash. As the complaints about Domash as university president hitting upon exploiting student women became serious that the university Bd.Of Trustees started to look in to them. Domash cleared the Trustees then and brought in fresh outsiders. Jerry got rotated off then. The play of TM power differential. Real Age of Enlightenment stuff! MUM still does not have a code of ethics for students, staff, or faculty. The question is, why not? The answer is, it's supposed to be spontaneously life supporting from the field of natural law. How long will it be before everyone catches on? Place your bets. Morality is doing what is right despite what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told despite if it's wrong.
[FairfieldLife] Superheroes on the couch.
Super Shrinks Psychoanalyze Superheroes David Moye /team/david-moye SAN DIEGO (July 22) -- Being a superhero has its perks, but caped crusaders like Spider-Man and Batman also can suffer from some super-sized mental problems. However, as anyone who reads comic books knows, it's difficult for Spidey or the Caped Crusader to carve out time from their busy crime-fighting schedule to talk with a mental health expert. But three L.A.-based psychiatrists have come to the rescue, figuring that if they can't get the superheroes on the couch, they can at least give their fans some food for thought about mental health issues. [Psychiatric experts H. Eric Bender, M.D., Vasilis K. Pozios, M.D., and Praveen R. Kambam, M.D. believe that comic fans can learn a lot about mental health from their favorite superheroes.] On July 22, Dr. H. Eric Bender, Dr. Praveen R. Kambam and Dr. Vasilis K. Pozios [above] will be speaking at the San Diego Comic Con http://www.comic-con.org on a panel titled Transcending Trauma: From the Birth of Batman to the Rise of the Red Hood. The trio, who work under the banner Broadcast Thought http://www.broadcastthought.com , are big comics fans, and they believe that analyzing heroes from a psychiatric perspective can add new dimensions to the stories while erasing misinformation and stigmas about mental health and treatment. For instance, Pozios said that while some people have speculated that Batman suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder because he witnessed the death of his parents, close analysis of the medical criteria suggests he has some of the symptoms but not the disorder. There are actually four categories of criteria for PTSD, Bender told AOL News. There has to be some inciting traumatic event, such as the threat of death or serious injury. Then the person has to have re-experiencing of the event, such as through nightmares or flashbacks. There is also hyper-arousal, such as an ex-soldier being extra sensitive to sudden noises. Finally, the person avoids places and other things associated with the traumatic event. Still, Pozios noted that Batman has experienced post-traumatic symptoms, such as flashbacks as a child, difficulties in relationships and hypervigilance. Also, since Batman has been known to take flowers to the site where his parents were killed, Pozios said this suggests he does not experience avoidance of the site of the trauma, a feature often seen in individuals with PTSD. In this era of celebrity therapy, Bender is quick to add in with tongue firmly in cheek that he has never actually treated Batman or Bruce Wayne. The doctors also cite the Hulk as an example of a superhero who exhibits post-traumatic symptoms, especially the way that actor Bill Bixby portrayed his alter ego, Dr. David Banner, on the 1970s-era TV show. In addition, Kambam said the Hulk has signs of other problems as well. The Hulk might benefit from anger management strategies, he suggested, adding that his tendency to flare up quickly may be related to his concrete thinking and intellectual functioning. Bender agrees. The Hulk shows impulsive behavior that may be related to his low IQ and simplistic thinking, he said. This impulsivity is similar to that seen in patients with low IQ that have learned no better ways of expressing their frustration than being violent and aggressive. Therefore, they may benefit from learning anger management strategies and other coping skills. Meanwhile, there are some superheroes who are good role models for dealing with mental stress, such as Peter Parker aka Spider-Man. [Batman and Superman] Despite having unique mental health issues, Batman and Superman are fairly well-adjusted experts say. Peter Parker is actually very well-adjusted despite the loss of his parents and his Uncle Ben, Pozios said. He has a happy disposition for the most part, and often uses humor to get through tough times. Although he does express some anxiety over balancing his public and private lives, Parker does have significant insight into this dilemma. Since Parker is known for engaging in inner dialogues with himself, the doctors believe he would be a good candidate for psycho-dynamic therapy -- basically lying on a couch and probing his subconscious. Although he does express some workaholic tendencies, he does have the insight to understand that he is making that choice, Pozios added. But the most well-adjusted superhero just might be the guy who started it all: Superman. In the past, comic legends like Jules Feiffer have tried to suggest the Man of Steel must have some kind of identity problem for him to need a secret identity, especially a wimpy one like Clark Kent. But Bender and Pozios heartily disagree with this notion. It's actually more mature of him to realize he needs to be grounded rather than be a god-like being on Earth, Pozios said. Bender, Pozios and Kambam realize that some people might consider analyzing superheroes in regard to mental
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mars and Saturn Conjunction Coming Soon
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: You're celebrating a bit early old chap. Please, read my response to Peter and do.relfex on this thread. As we say here in the USA, the game is not over until it's over. What, you mean something - of course unspecified - may happen within a three month period? I think the chances of something bad *not* happening over that timescale is pretty unlikely. Especially as you were careful enough to include the middle east in the prediction coz nothing bad *ever* happens there does it! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: This will happen tomorrow on July 20, 2010. In jyotish, this conjunction is considered to be very malefic. Given the world situation today, it's possible that there can be a major accident in the USA similar to the train wreck in India. There might be an attempt by an al-Qaeda type organization to disrupt the peace anywhere in the world. The smoldering hatred in the Middle East may erupt again with some kind of attacks in the Gaza Strip, Iraq or Iran. On the positive side, Jupiter is aspecting this conjunction. As such, the negative effects may be mitigated or eliminated altogether. Phew, we all survived! Thanks Jupiter. JR
[FairfieldLife] Re: What Michael Dean Goodman actually SAID about Vaj
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: One day, when I was showing a whole lot of Vaj's posts to my profes- sional friends, one of them (who is a spiritual man - not on the TM path - currently a Buddhist) took me aside and said Michael - I get the distinct feeling here that we are dealing with something darker than Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Have you considered that we are watching the very clever tactics of a demon, the handiwork of an obstructer of Truth? Jesus Christ, what a load of horseshit. This is just too much. In Michael Dean Goodman's Vedic pychology PHD Rakshassa is probably a clinical term. Caused by bad planetery alignment. Cured by bloodletting or yagyas. --- On Wed, 7/21/10, TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] What Michael Dean Goodman actually SAID about Vaj To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 1:52 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Dr. Sutphen, a professional therapist, declares Judy to be of sound mind and body. Now she do be a tad whack from time to time, but that's just spice in the soup for us! Waving my M.E.R.U. degree to proclaim my professional credentials, I suggest that when from time to time goes on for over 16 years it just might be a little more than whack. But you're the professional here, Pete. If you think whack is the appropriate DSM diagnosis, I'll go with that and use the proper clinical term in the future. I don't see how she can complain about that. As DSM categories of personality disorder go, whack is a lot easier to live with than the one Michael Dean Goodman came up with for Vaj: rakshasa. :-) This last point deserves to be expanded upon. Given all this talk about crazy vs. sane, I see most people here as FAR too sane to have actually read all of Michael Dean Goodman's post. As a result, they probably missed the part at the end. Therefore I am reposting WHAT HE ACTUALLY SAID ABOUT VAJ below, with the recommendation that people read it. It's only five paragraphs long. THIS, said by a person who introduced himself as a licensed therapist, is what Judy is trying to put on the same level as Vaj calling her deranged and Pete stating the obvious about Willytex, as a joke. THIS is not Internet psychological diagnosis. It's a person claiming to be a licensed therapist stating his professional conclusion that Vaj may be a demon, a rakshasa. THIS is insane. CONCLUSION #2: ACTUALLY NARCISSIST (PLUS ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN)? OR SOMETHING MORE TROUBLING AND DARK? So we've noticed that if we're looking for real, compassionate spiritual guidance, we'll be frustrated by Vaj - and we've had years to watch what he serves up. Instead we get Anti-authoritarian, we get Narciss- isism - and we maybe get something even more troubling: we get a dark smokescreen of confusion, negativity, obstruction... We get conscious misrepresentation and outright lying. We get refusal to reveal, refusal to answer simple questions. We get an attempt to obscure the Truth and replace it with confusion, complication, doubt, division, dark- ness. One day, when I was showing a whole lot of Vaj's posts to my profes- sional friends, one of them (who is a spiritual man - not on the TM path - currently a Buddhist) took me aside and said Michael - I get the distinct feeling here that we are dealing with something darker than Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Have you considered that we are watching the very clever tactics of a demon, the handiwork of an obstructer of Truth? So I took off my therapist's hat and put on my spiritual hat and I read back over Vaj's posts with this in mind, and looked at the overall theme, the overall tone, the overall feeling that he radiates through his words, the obsessive dedication to obstructing simplicity and truth for so many years - and I understood what my associate was saying. In the guise of being a man of both deep understanding and advanced personal experience, Vaj cleverly sows incredible confusion and doubt, like a good rakshasa would. There's a vedic warning that comes to mind: Be careful, because the rakshasas (demons) can imitate Brahman better than Brahman itself. For Vaj's sake, I personally hope that he's just a severe anti-author- itarian narcissist, and not a rakshasa. The first is definitely easier to resolve and heal than the second!
[FairfieldLife] Re: My email to Judith after reading her book
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: snip I don't know whether Maharishi consciously orchestrated the crash, but I sometimes wonder whether nature sacrificed those people (perhaps in a pre-arranged agreement as you mention is taught in the Seth books) in order for Maharishi's mission to continue. I'm utterly fascinated by the notion that any of you took either of these possibilities seriously. Why? The ability to affect events is one of the major parts of Marshy's teaching. If a remote influence can bring down the Berlin wall it ought to knock a small plane out of the sky with no effort at all. If MMY could cause a plane to fall from the sky merely by wishing it, he could have come up with other ways of keeping them quiet that wouldn't have involved killing them. I really don't think he was a murderer. Nor do I, I'm just pointing out that the TM hardcore wouldn't have any trouble at all incorporating it into their beliefs. They would say that MMY had helped these women with their spiritual progress in a way that we would find shocking in our unenlightened state and that in order to protect the development of the whole of mankind you had to make the odd sacrifice. I don't believe it either but I don't doubt some would. Seriously. If you think I'm just winding you up you didn't spend as much time at the heart of the movement as I did. Didn't spend any time at the heart of the movement. But I can't imagine myself getting sucked into that kind of nonsense even if I had. Ooh are you sure? Group-think can be a powerful thing, all that subconscious pressure to conform. First step is saying things like I got some nature support when the queue you are in at the bank travels faster than the one next to it. Later you start believing that the moon's shadow is dangerous. It's a slippery slope down the rabbit hole for sure. OK, I didn't fall down it so maybe you wouldn't have either ;-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mars and Saturn Conjunction Coming Soon
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: This will happen tomorrow on July 20, 2010. In jyotish, this conjunction is considered to be very malefic. Given the world situation today, it's possible that there can be a major accident in the USA similar to the train wreck in India. There might be an attempt by an al-Qaeda type organization to disrupt the peace anywhere in the world. The smoldering hatred in the Middle East may erupt again with some kind of attacks in the Gaza Strip, Iraq or Iran. On the positive side, Jupiter is aspecting this conjunction. As such, the negative effects may be mitigated or eliminated altogether. Phew, we all survived! Thanks Jupiter. JR
[FairfieldLife] Re: DOME ANNOUNCEMENTS--Guru Purnima, TM-Sidhi lecture, Veda in human physiology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: On Jul 21, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Hugo wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Head covering? Ladies wear head covering?! WTF? Maybe I'll show up in a fucking bur-qua. The TMO is off the rails on this one, even for me. Good idea, we don't want to encourage any more horniness amongst the pure. But it's the thin end of the wedge, they've already had no menstruating or pregnant women in the dome notices before. I wonder why any women go at all. Also, no leather? That's a new one isn't it? No. In the last one, they said no whips or chains either. You must have missed that one. :) Spoilsports. Soon there won't be any point going at all! Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: My email to Judith after reading her book
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Hugo fintlewoodle...@... wrote: From: Hugo fintlewoodle...@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: My email to Judith after reading her book To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 12:33 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugo Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 11:17 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: My email to Judith after reading her book Remember what the raja said: The movement is always right but reality sometimes gets it wrong. A raja actually said that? Ooh yes, I can't remember the context but we were working for the natural law party at the time so it was possibly one of MMYs comment about politics or the current world situation that I was having trouble with. I was always complaining. It's lucky the food was good or I would have walked out on day one when I found out that using scientific and time-tested programmes of natural law actually meant things like consulting jyotish to decide when to hold press conferences. In fact the very first meeting I attended to plan the election the head honcho of the European movement said We've consulted the jyotishees for a muhurta to launch the campaign and it's 4pm next monday afternoon I asked what a muhurta was and he said it's an astrologically decided perfect time to to get the best results from an endeavor. After the sinking feeling had passed I said well in that case it's wrong because the best time to hold a press conference is friday morning because the journos can get their copy in before the bars open and any coverage is seen by a bigger audience because weekend papers have a larger readership. Which got some enthusiastic support from the more rational members of the group. He simply glared at me and said The jyotishees have given us the perfect time and that's the one we are going to use At which point our raja said Gosh, maybe nature doesn't want us to succeed. What's the fucking point then? was my next question but sadly I only said it in my head. True story. And thus went any true success of the TM movement for teaching and spreading a really wonderful meditation technique around the world. Hugo, your story is only surpassed by the story of Maharishi wanting to change the direction of the Thames and rebuilding London according to those oh-so-critical stypatcha (sp?) veda specifications. Oh, my! Oh my indeed, that plan wouldn't have gone down too well I think. A few too many rather nice and valuable buildings would have to go and besides having water to the south is bad SV so the houses of parliament would be destroyed for nothing. But I did hear that MMY asked helpers to call the Queen and get her to build meditaton rooms under Buckingham palace. As far as I know nobody did, maybe if they had the World Plan might have succeeded. No probably not ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: My email to Judith after reading her book
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugo Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 11:46 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: My email to Judith after reading her book Forgot to mention: we started the campaign on the right day and it was a glowing success, somedays we got as many as *ten* people to come along and listen. The share of the vote the NLP got was almost in double figures (not a percentage unfortunately) Needless to say I didn't vote for them and I worked there! We should all heave a huge sigh of relief that they never got a sniff of power anywhere on Earth. But a parallel universe where they had got elected would be a fun world to visit. Muhurta indeed! As I recall, Nand Kishore ran for office and was toddling around London knocking on doors. True? He was indeed, I think it was in Southhall which has a large Indian population. I never met him though.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Triskelion crop circle
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu Xero yifux...@... wrote: If anybody knows who is making these, let me know. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crop_circles_Swirl.jpg Pleasure: http://www.circlemakers.org/ Check out the new documents section where they mention the crop circle they made in under four hours that was designed by a mathematican from the university of London. I saw the documentary and it was fascinating how they made such a complex work of art in such a short space of time and in complete darkness! I always thought they would use complex stuff like GPS or scaled up grids but no, it's all planks and string just like when crop cirlces started in the 80's. The designs have improved with the practise the circlemakers have put in.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Another woman comes forward
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote: He's a guy with loads of people around that think he's the most amazing human ever and would probably do anything for him, some of them horny young girls. So, blame the girls for being 'horny'. Hugo: I wonder if you've ever actually understood anything that's been posted here. So, how would you know if any of the young girls hanging around the Maharishi were 'horny' or not? Is it wrong to be horny, Hugo? Hey, why not just refuse to deal with the issue and type a load of irrelevant dribble instead? Oh, you did. Would that make it their fault, or would the Maharishi be at fault for being horny? Or, both? If the sex was consenual, would anyone be at fault? It's called denial, why not contact John Knapp for some exit-counselling. Apparently some of the young girls wanted to be close to him - for power or ego, or for some other reason. But, did they enjoy - that's the question.
[FairfieldLife] Re: My email to Judith after reading her book
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: snip I don't know whether Maharishi consciously orchestrated the crash, but I sometimes wonder whether nature sacrificed those people (perhaps in a pre-arranged agreement as you mention is taught in the Seth books) in order for Maharishi's mission to continue. I'm utterly fascinated by the notion that any of you took either of these possibilities seriously. Why? The ability to affect events is one of the major parts of Marshy's teaching. If a remote influence can bring down the Berlin wall it ought to knock a small plane out of the sky with no effort at all. If you think I'm just winding you up you didn't spend as much time at the heart of the movement as I did. Of course people believe this stuff the TMO would cease to function if they didn't. Remember what the raja said: The movement is always right but reality sometimes gets it wrong. BTW, pre-arranged agreement between whom, exactly? Nature and MMY? And arranged when?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Another woman comes forward
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, drpetersutphen drpetersutp...@... wrote: Hi everyone...Some masochistic impulse made me join FFL again..go figure...I must have had something transit rahu, whatever. What I find amazing about MMY and all the ladies is that I believe that it is all true and it doesn't bother me the way it might in the distant past. I can't conceptually resolve it by dismissing MMY because of the amazing transformations his body of techniques and his darshan itself have had on me. I can't figure out why he'd be interested in sex, especially the kind of bust-a-nut sex these ladies seem to be describing. It's a mystery. I wish one of these women had asked MMY, what's up with all this sex, Maharishi? I don't get it. Can't figure it out? He's a guy with loads of people around that think he's the most amazing human ever and would probably do anything for him,some of them horny young girls. What's not to understand? The guy was weak and greedy and thought he'd exploit the situation to his advantage even though it's obviously an unfair abuse of his power and position. Ah, I see the problem, you thought he was some sort of enlightened person of high spiritual standing who might be practising what he preached... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Anonymously: Dear Rick Of course please keep my name and position private. I have been reading, almost obsessively-compulsively, the sequential discussions re: Judith's book on FFL. At first it was with a sigh of relief, that one lady had opened up, and was so well received. Now the dirt is rolling in--people doing their best to cast doubt on her experiences, to besmirch her integrity, to ridicule what she has to say just so they will feel better. And people wonder why the other ladies don't come forward. I remember Judith from Squaw Valley days. She had been put in charge of cleaning M's rooms and silks. She had the most beautiful saris. I asked her where she bought them and she explained that M had given them to her. Immediately my radar went up; she had done something personal with him that pleased him, I surmised, and he gave her something beautiful in exchange. Having been propositioned by M myself but turning him down, I had not received anything for that one night. Even way back then with Judith, I thought, maybe if I had said yes..my life would have turned out better. I would be allowed to be closer. Now it's easy to see that isn't always the case. It helps to know that. Judith probably has done more for the other ladies who went through similar experiences than any one else. Remember also that she left the Movement and went off on her own path. She has had the freedom to speak the truth. My psychology is better now for what she has written. Truth, sweet truth helps. And Judith sees the good that M has done for the world. It is the technique of meditation that counts. Does THAT work? That is what he marketed to the world and hopefully today the world is a better place--not perfect, just a little better. No one likes everything about something or someone; that is the nature of the relative--it's not perfect. I guess we forget that in our quest for absolute anything. But shouldn't we focus on what does work, what is good? That's what Scriptures keep telling us to do and there must be a reason. That instruction is not guru-based; it is evolutionary based. What FFLfers are now doing is not helping us heal. Rather the fear is returning, the sense of persecution is coming back to life. If these people ever find out..runs through my mind constantly. This probably will be the closest I will ever come to going really public. This tiny missive that hardly says anything. I guess I am asking FFlfers to please, please, please, give us ladies a chance to heal. It may be lies to you, it may be fantasy to you, but it's not to those of us who went through it. Keep that in mind. If anything, have compassion in your hearts and give us the space we so desperately need to heal. thank you Yours Truly
[FairfieldLife] Re: Another woman comes forward
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_re...@... wrote: I am sorry if and when anyone is hurt. I wish it were not so. But in most things in life there is give and take. Following your words to their implications, one might think JJ gave all, obtained nothing, and was severely taken advantage of and cheated. Not sure, but J always seemed to have gained a lot when I saw him. I am not sure he would grieve and moan that he walked away empty handed (and actually -- emptiness is a great thing). Not all our dreams come true. Not all our fantasies materialize. But no one got any benefit? They walked away totally empty from the deal? By my own choice, I worked in the TMO, became a teacher, taught, did courses and generally had good things happening, growth happened in many areas of my life. Some great adventures. Gained a lot. Was I disappointed all my dreams did not come true? Was I disillusioned over time? Sure. Was I disappointed M didn't give me all the face time I wanted? Sure. But irrespective of that, after some time of seeing a pattern of disconnects, I said adieu. As did most people. Did I leave with nothing? With less than I came with? Hardly. I walked in expecting to gain the universe an all knowledge. I walked away with less -- but still a smile on my face. The ladies, I hurt for them. I am sorry some were hurt. Were they participants? Or did they walk away? I know girls that had affairs with professors in college (not MIU -- though that happened too). They knew it was a dicey thing. But were willing to take the risk. They knew it was not a long term thing. Were the ladies (such a TMO word), were these woman totally oblivious to any downside? Was it all just upside? Become the princess of the TMO? Forever? No risk? No downside? People make choices. And they are aware of the consequences of the choices. People enter relations -- far more normal than these womem -- and are later hurt, rejected. Life sometimes sucks. And sometimes we learn and grow from that suckiness. People learn. People move on. I just can't buy 100% into this victimhood stigma you wrap these women in. They made choices -- probably naive ones, but they were aware of an upside. They were aware of a downside. Their dreams were not fulfilled. I am sorry. I wish all dreams were fulfilled. But life moves on. It sounds like most or all of the women have fruitful lives. As far as discarding women -- did you ever see that among teachers? It happened and happens. I am sad it does. But are you also rallying against all of the teachers who had relations and moved on -- (to the next town, next course...) without a totally sweet ending? I wish all relations had happy endings. Sadly not all do. Sadly some men are heals. (Some women are too.) But are all women totally oblivious to this? They have over the ages no clue it would not always end like a fairy tale? And by the way -- any guys ever get dumped in unceremoneous and undeserved ways. Yes, they have. And from what I saw and have pieced together, the women were sometimes, perhaps often, aware of previous women. Clearly things did not work out for those preceding them. Yet they chose to go ahead with it. And things did not worked out as planned or hoped. I am sorry it was not all golden. But really, honestly does it sound like the work of an enlightened man? The lies, the obvious abuse of power. What do you think this news would do to the majority of people in the TMO. Stand up and make an announcement in the dome and see how far you get. Blaming people for their mistakes is fine in a normal relationship but this clearly wasn't a normal situation. This is your way of dealing with unpalatable facts but it don't wash with me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Joe geezerfreak@ wrote: It's nice that it doesn't bother you Doc. But, how about the ladies involved? Does the damage done (and it very clearly WAS done) to the ladies bother you? That MMY could so callously use his power and influence over these women to bed them, then discard them in a variety of ways when a new box of chocolates opens to him, makes me question plenty about this guy. The same thing happened repeatedly to those whose money he was after. He used you up and discarded you when you were know longer of any use to himhappened for years. Didn't matter who you were. Ask Jerry Jarvis. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, drpetersutphen drpetersutphen@ wrote: Hi everyone...Some masochistic impulse made me join FFL again..go figure...I must have had something transit rahu, whatever. What I find amazing about MMY and all the ladies is that I believe that it is all true and it doesn't bother me the way it might in the distant past. I can't conceptually resolve it by dismissing MMY because of the amazing transformations his body of
[FairfieldLife] Re: I had forgotten about this story, It seems relevant today.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote: Curtis: Sexy romps of the Beatle's giggling guru 'I gave my mind to the Maharishi and he took my body' So, the Mahesh Yogi had sex with Linda too. Can you believe the power this guy had over the minds of these poor innocent women. This guy Mahesh was a veritable sex fiend - seducing all the pretty girls and taking over their minds, totally. It's like they were in some kind of 'trance induction state'. They were all highly suggestible that's fer sure! Varma wanted to teach people how to relax and enjoy, but when the other girls found out about him sexual powers it became a contest to see who could get the closest to him. He had to post a pimply-faced guard at the door just to keep the other girls out. This is very impressive! Varma coaxed the pretty gitls one-by-one onto his dirty, filthy antelope skin bed and then he slid his sweaty palms all over them in the middle of the night. Drunk with the power of lusty degenerate tantra he tried to sexually regenerate the entire world in just 6-7 years. He became their God, and they started a religion in his name, bowing down and signing solemn oaths of allegiance, spending countless millions of dollars just to be close enough to hand him a flower or two. So, I don't blame Turq and Joe for getting so angry and upset. While they were trying to be good celibate monks, and spending all that time and money, Varma was getting to do all the enjoying! But, just for the record, I couldn't care less what the Maharishi was doing - he was never my 'guru' - he was always just a great guy with a good idea. His personal, private sex life is of no concern to me. So, I think it's great the guy got to have some private time to enjoy. It's just too bad you hangers-on tried to spoil it by hanging outside his door like some creepy peepers. You guys need to get a grip! Compared to most TM-Teachers, Mr. Varma is starting to look like just an ordinary guy. You turned a perfectly good relaxation technique and a great meditation teacher into a laughing-stock with your 'Guru-Yoga' religion cult. You suck as a TM Teacher. Yeah, poor old Marshy he just wanted to teach the world to meditate but the dirty girls just wanted sex and led him astray and then Turq and Joe came along and started a cult and ruined everything. It could have been *so* good if only they'd let the Reesh do what he wanted instead of thinking about whether his life matched the claims he made for it and whether the goal he lauded was worth the price of admission if he had to lie to keep his personal failings a secret. Go figure. I wish I could, but without risking a lecture from Michael Dean Goodman can I suggest there might be just a tadette of denial going on here? There was a lot of talk that he'd tried to rape Mia Farrow. - Linda Pearce These stories utterly destroy the claims made for Marshy's enlightenment. I expect a hundred e-mails to the contrary from the usual suspects and so will happily go through the Marshy's teaching one step at a time and point out the glaringly obvious. If I can be bothered. Funny thing is this whole story comes as an absolutely zero surprise to the rest of the world who had him down as a lascivious cash-obsessed fraudster from day one.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Robes of Silk, Feet of Clay/Judith Bourque
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of authfriend Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 9:55 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Robes of Silk, Feet of Clay/Judith Bourque I could certainly be wrong, but I'm guessing he was very careful as to what he said about his sexual status, allowing folks to *assume* things that weren't the case without telling outright falsehoods. Not true. At Poland Spring (July 1970), in the midst of MMY's sexual phase a guy named Michelangelo Salcedo got up to the mic and told MMY he was interested in the sexual revolution. MMY cut him short, saying that he was a monk, it wasn't his field, and he didn't know anything about it. Marshy often claimed to be a celibate monk. This kiddology of the TBs is so they can have it both ways. Oh but he never *actually* said he was celibate did he? Can you prove it? It's an unconvincing get out clause so they can still kid themselves they were in the presence of someone as holy as he claimed.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Soccer: octopussy Paul's prediction!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: Paul predicted Spain shall beat Germany! The latter badly needs more YFfers? :/ T'would've been kewl, if Paul had chosen the Winner, Netherlands! Unfortunately He chose Spain; everybody even down in Texas knows, that the Superradiance from Vlodrop makes Netherlands practically invincible! Don't worry Carde at least one member of the psychic animal kingdom is on your side: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20100709/tod-psychic-parakeet-picks-netherlands-a-1066d3e.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: X-Rayted Pinup Calendar
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Posted as a link because I don't want to get Alex and Rick and the moderators in any trouble and risk FFL being designated an official Porn Zone. Also posted with a strong warning to the Professional Prudes in our midst. If the sight of leggy models wearing high heels and posing in suggestive positions gets the wrong chakra workin' for ya and lures you Off The Program and off the spiritual path, you might not want to click on this one. It is by FAR the most revealing pinup calendar you've ever seen, and you should probably peruse a few pages of the Vedic Literature instead, reading aloud to ward off any lingering low-vibeness. Those less challenged might get a kick out of a very creative approach to marketing medical scanning equipment. http://www.thecoolist.com/eizo-x-ray-pin-up-calendar/ http://www.thecoolist.com/eizo-x-ray-pin-up-calendar/ Cool, I've always liked girls with pronounced cheek bones. Here's a funny comment from the site from someone called James: It's not hilarious or inventive. This really is a world of chauvanist pigs who continue to orientate their lives around a primal instinct. Not only this, but you are all being completely sucked in to the media-driven message which tells you what you must find sexually attractive and desire. The text compared to pictures ratio in this article supports this point. You are all more interested in seeing the x-ray of a human female (much like the mother you were born from) degrading herself and all females by writhing about in positions which are supposed to attract ALL men. Find some identity within your sexuality don't have it dictated to you by pornography. Continue wasting your lives away you all disgust me. Probably not the guy to invite on a Sitges World Cup Prediction beach stroll.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The highest goal in life as IDEA
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip Can someone who knows where these alleged lies are please post me a link as I just had a search and couldn't find anything other than the usual he said - she said stuff. Just about any thread Andrew posted to involves at least one of his lies and usually multiple ones. But here's a thread for you: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/browse_thread/thread/b6bc205c81803ab8/e5beb1f0768adc5?q=%22breast+cancer%22+group:alt.meditation.transcendental+author:andrew+author:skolnick http://tinyurl.com/29slcaa The thread is endless and involves other exchanges and discussions, including of other blatant lies of Andrew's. The topic I think is of greatest interest has to do with Andrew's comments on an episode of the Phil Donahue show. These comments: Just want you to know that the Donahue show that touted Maharishi Ayur-Veda and its miraculous benefits for former breast cancer patient [name deleted out of respect for the dead] -- who died 2 years later of breast cancer -- will be a key part of a talk I will be giving in Italy later this year. I have been invited to talk about breast cancer and the media at an international breast cancer conference in Palermo, Sicily. I think the Donahue program is an excellent example of how the public is being badly misinformed about unproven cancer treatments. I am planning to show the video tape -- at least the segments where [deleted] gives her testimonial and where Deepak Chopra and Nancy Lonsdorf make marvelous health claims for TM and MAV (and then say that they're not making any health claims.) Sound fair enough to me, former cancer patient is her claim. Chopra and MAV make endless claims about the cancer curing/ preventing qualities of MA4. What's not to like with Skolnick sticking up for people who've been mislead and, being dead, can't say it themselves? OK, let's take a closer look at this. Not a lot of point I fear, different eyes see different things and when I read the transcript I see it littered with references to cancer curing properties of MAV and claims that it was the MAV treatments that were responsible for her complete remission. I could point a few out if you like: DEEPAK CHOPRA,The perfect chemistry of health is happiness. If you're in love you're less likely to catch a cold, actually it's true even of cancer JANE DOE: Former cancer patient. PHIL DONAHUE: What happened, Jane? What do you want to share with us in regard to the nature of your own pathology? JANE DOE, Ayur-Vedic Patient PHIL DONAHUE: And what turned the corner for you? JANE DOE: Ayur-Veda really turned the corner for me, because the-- PHIL DONAHUE: Well, did somebody say something to you, or-- I know this is complicated, but what information did you get that allowed for you to enjoy this wonderful change in health that you enjoy now? JANE DOE: The experience of Ayur-Veda. There's a mental aspect of Ayur-Veda as well as a physiological aspect, and I received a psychophysiological technique from Dr. Chopra, and that he talks about in his book. And the body experiences an inner bliss, an inner happiness. And that gets translated into body-- into the body feeling better and the body getting stronger and able to throw off the disease. Dr. DEEPAK CHOPRA: We've done some studies, Phil, where we see that when people undergo these techniques, their immune system builds up, so there's-- it's easier for them to fight the disease, the cancer. In fact, these herbs have anticarcinogenic effects. I'm sure you would select a different set of quotes to make your point but I would think most casual observers would come to the conclusion that Skolnick did. Finally, aside from the lies, I genuinely don't know how to express the extent of my disgust and revulsion at Andrew's shopping around copies of her death certificate to anybody who requested one. Not illegal, but an invasion of privacy in the worst possible taste, and beyond despicable in his attempt to exploit and distort this woman's tragedy to further his own career agenda. You sound dangerously unhinged here. It's your analysis that he did this to further his career. As someone who has dedicated himself to weeding out dangerous snake-oil salesman I would have thought he felt justified in proving that this lady died of cancer after all that MAV had promised. And it does still claim that MA4 has cancer curing properties. And I've had studies quoted at me about how tumours are reduced by MA4. Not in living people but in test tubes, which isn't ever the same
[FairfieldLife] Re: The highest goal in life as IDEA
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Is this one of your you have to agree with me before I discuss it arguments? If you can't acknowledge that he lied about the two points I mentioned above, there's no point in my discussing MAV with you any further, no. That failure indicates a mind completely closed to reason, evidence, and logic. Hmm, yes that sounds like me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The highest goal in life as IDEA
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchy...@... wrote: Judy, thanks for unraveling Skolnick's lies. He has made his living as an anti-TM propagandist for years, so anything he has to say on the subject should be suspect. Unfortunately, as long as Skonicks has loyal anti-TM toadies willing to ignore a sly omission of facts here and there, there will be no end to the number of fools lining up, stretching the truth and twisting themselves into knots pretending he isn't a scam artist. Loyal anti-TM toadies - that's pretty funny. But not as funny as Nectar of Immortality or Perfect Health through Natural Law or Infinite Organising Power of Nature. Especially in the context of the present argument, wouldn't you say? I hope there will never be an end to the number people who call for proof on the ludicrous claims of Mr Quantum Healing and the TMO. Let's not forget, the leaked documents from the TMO that appeared on wikileaks stated clearly what they thought about having doctors in peace palaces and the clear superiority of ayurveda compared to western medicine. If the subject here was living in Marshy's Age of Enlightenment she wouldn't have got near a proper doctor in the first place. Stretching the truth? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip http://tinyurl.com/29slcaa The thread is endless and involves other exchanges and discussions, including of other blatant lies of Andrew's. The topic I think is of greatest interest has to do with Andrew's comments on an episode of the Phil Donahue show. These comments: Just want you to know that the Donahue show that touted Maharishi Ayur-Veda and its miraculous benefits for former breast cancer patient [name deleted out of respect for the dead] -- who died 2 years later of breast cancer -- will be a key part of a talk I will be giving in Italy later this year. I have been invited to talk about breast cancer and the media at an international breast cancer conference in Palermo, Sicily. I think the Donahue program is an excellent example of how the public is being badly misinformed about unproven cancer treatments. I am planning to show the video tape -- at least the segments where [deleted] gives her testimonial and where Deepak Chopra and Nancy Lonsdorf make marvelous health claims for TM and MAV (and then say that they're not making any health claims.) Sound fair enough to me, former cancer patient is her claim. Chopra and MAV make endless claims about the cancer curing/ preventing qualities of MA4. What's not to like with Skolnick sticking up for people who've been mislead and, being dead, can't say it themselves? OK, let's take a closer look at this. Not a lot of point I fear, different eyes see different things and when I read the transcript I see it littered with references to cancer curing properties of MAV and claims that it was the MAV treatments that were responsible for her complete remission. OK, you don't want to address what you yourself asked for evidence of in the first place, i.e., that Skolnick is a liar. I cited and documented two blatant lies: that he said the woman had claimed to have been cured of cancer, and that he deliberately gave the impression that she had died because she used MAV *rather than* standard medical treatment. Sorry, but if you can't acknowledge that neither of those was the case--if you can't even quote the evidence, let alone rebut it--you're obviously not interested in an honest discussion of what you said you wanted to know about. I could point a few out if you like: Irrelevant to the issue of whether Skolnick lied on those two points. And they certainly don't show that the woman was misled or misinformed--to the contrary. - DEEPAK CHOPRA,The perfect chemistry of health is happiness. If you're in love you're less likely to catch a cold, actually it's true even of cancer JANE DOE: Former cancer patient. [I explained why she said this. She wasn't saying she was cured, merely that she was no longer receiving treatment because there were no longer any signs of cancer. Why are you quoting it again as if it supports *your* point?] PHIL DONAHUE: What happened, Jane? What do you want to share with us in regard to the nature of your own pathology? JANE DOE, Ayur-Vedic Patient [This was the ID the Donahue show used, not something she said, just for the record. Not at all clear, though, why you think it was important to include, as if it helped your and Skolnick's case.] PHIL DONAHUE
[FairfieldLife] Re: The highest goal in life as IDEA
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip Can someone who knows where these alleged lies are please post me a link as I just had a search and couldn't find anything other than the usual he said - she said stuff. Just about any thread Andrew posted to involves at least one of his lies and usually multiple ones. But here's a thread for you: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/browse_thread/thread/b6bc205c81803ab8/e5beb1f0768adc5?q=%22breast+cancer%22+group:alt.meditation.transcendental+author:andrew+author:skolnick http://tinyurl.com/29slcaa The thread is endless and involves other exchanges and discussions, including of other blatant lies of Andrew's. The topic I think is of greatest interest has to do with Andrew's comments on an episode of the Phil Donahue show. These comments: Just want you to know that the Donahue show that touted Maharishi Ayur-Veda and its miraculous benefits for former breast cancer patient [name deleted out of respect for the dead] -- who died 2 years later of breast cancer -- will be a key part of a talk I will be giving in Italy later this year. I have been invited to talk about breast cancer and the media at an international breast cancer conference in Palermo, Sicily. I think the Donahue program is an excellent example of how the public is being badly misinformed about unproven cancer treatments. I am planning to show the video tape -- at least the segments where [deleted] gives her testimonial and where Deepak Chopra and Nancy Lonsdorf make marvelous health claims for TM and MAV (and then say that they're not making any health claims.) Sound fair enough to me, former cancer patient is her claim. Chopra and MAV make endless claims about the cancer curing/preventing qualities of MA4. What's not to like with Skolnick sticking up for people who've been mislead and, being dead, can't say it themselves? And here's the transcript of the Donahue episode, for your reference when you read any of the threads that discuss it: http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditation.transcendental/msg/c93a0d2ee31358cb http://tinyurl.com/2a678gb Can't see what the fuss is about, she clearly says she is a former cancer patient and that she credits ayurveda for turning the corner. Later she dies even after all those Chopra claims about happiness and the scientific research. If she had survived after the expense of all that nectar of immortality Skolnick might not have had as much to crow about. Anything is worth a try but as it is I think he's quite right to claim that people are led astray by alternative therapists, and to use this as an example. I could add a great deal to his case in fact. And Chopra's dislaimer at the end about not everyone benefiting as much for various reasons must seem a *little* sad to everyone now mustn't it? I've always thought Mr quantum healing needed nothing less than a good hard kick up the arse, which Skolnick gave him with the JAMA article. I think it's criminal that the TMO still makes these claims about MA4 and MAV in general, the amount of people I know in the TMO who have had cancer is suspicious to say the least. I know a long time TMer who only ever saw an ayurvedic doctor and was ill constantly for years, when they finally get round to seeing a *proper* doctor it turns out they have a wheat intolerance, what is the point of MAV if it can't help you with a little thing like that? Let's not forget MAV claims that it's OK to eat dangerous heavy metals if they've been heated first. Completely wrong but they have been about MA4s cancer preventing abilities too. The UK TMO started a study of people taking MA4 but the responses were so underwhelming the whole thing was quietly dropped. A disturbing case of selection bias, but not unexpected. PHIL DONAHUE: I must not-- I must say that-- I notice you have your pots and pans. Now, you will pardon my cynicism, but here comes the pitch. Maharishi Amrit Kalash, boy, I gotta have some of that, I'll tell you. Dr. NANCY LONSDORF: You'd like it, Phil. PHIL DONAHUE: I would? Dr. DEEPAK CHOPRA: Actually, yes, you'd love it. Dr. NANCY LONSDORF: Make you feel very good. PHIL DONAHUE: But how do we know you're not with the wagon and the snake oil? Dr. NANCY LONSDORF: Scientific research, Phil.
[FairfieldLife] The Space Brothers return Jesus!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/7871748/Jesuss-face-seen-in-Google-Earth-image.html
[FairfieldLife] Place your bets!
The final of the world cup is now close, only a fool would fail to follow the advice of The Psychic Octopus! http://g.au.sports.yahoo.com/football/world-cup/blog/the-corner-post/post/All-hail-Paul-the-psychic-octopus?urn=fbintl,253427
[FairfieldLife] Re: Does anyone else feel it?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pod127b pod1...@... wrote: Just to kick in my two bits from Mexico. A week and a half ago more or less I felt an unusual tension in collective consciousness. I only saw it reflected in local people a little. I suspect that most humans of the modern rational mind have defense mechanisims against energy waves in consciousness, and those who experience them consciously, so much more so. If human behaviour is a cue, then children might reflect these kinds of things better. I spoke of this tension in collective consciousness my co-workers at the time, carefully pointing out that I did not think that it had anything to do with any of us personally. That talk would be a small detail which is verifiable beyond just statements of the subjective. If you only saw it a bit in other people and it wasn't anything to do with you and your co-workers personally, in what way was it collective consciousness? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shukra69 shukra69@ wrote: mars has been under transit influence of Rahu, that could be uncomfortable for certain people and make for testiness, you can map it easily with Brian Conrads free program Junior Jyotish , do a current prasna and use the ephemeris function and back up the start date by a week to see what just happened. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, It's just a ride bill.hicks.all.a.ride@ wrote: Ben Collins first attributed it to the 2 week window between the lunar eclipse and the solar eclipse. I said no, that's not it. He agreed. There's something happening at the level of consciousness that is putting people at dis-ease. I have emails from many countries were people are telling me that the former friendly people in the shops are now nasty. I experience this in those around me. I don't need any of the Thalmud we don't see the world as it is but as we are.
[FairfieldLife] Re: The highest goal in life as IDEA
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, azgrey no_reply@ wrote: You may find this entertaining also: http://www.aaskolnick.com/junkyarddog/ Some shadow creature trolls have long and well documented histories. The junkyard dog site was put together by a highly respected and award winning Science and Medical Journalist/Editor. Who just happens to be the worst teller of falsehoods I've ever encountered--worse than Barry, even. If you want to see a genuine, dyed-in-the-wool shadow creature troll, that's Andrew Skolnick. He put up that site because the falsehoods he was trying to promote on alt.meditation.transcendental were getting knocked down repeatedly by me and a bunch of other folks. With a Web site of his own, he could spew without anyone contradicting him, including slandering me and his other main antagonists on alt.m.t. One of his specialties, BTW, was quoting out of context. Can someone who knows where these alleged lies are please post me a link as I just had a search and couldn't find anything other than the usual he said - she said stuff. Where did this start, is it just about his JAMA article?
[FairfieldLife] Skolnick on MAV
This is worth a read for many reasons: it shows what happens when the happy dream-world of the TMO collides with reality and it's got a quote from our old pal Curtis at the bottom. http://www.aaskolnick.com/mav.htm http://www.aaskolnick.com/mav.htm
[FairfieldLife] Holy Water Fraud!
South Korea professor charged over 'holy water' fraud [Basilica Notre-Dame du Rosaire in Lourdes, southern France (file image)] Mr Kim told buyers he had captured the healing powers of Lourdes A South Korean professor who claimed he could make tap water into holy water will face fraud charges, police say. The man, named as Prof Kim, claimed he could digitally capture the elements of holy water from Lourdes, France, that believers say has healing powers. He had sold devices to more than 5,000 people, making almost 1.7bn won ($1.3m, £870,000). Eight people, including Prof Kim's wife and brother-in-law, will also be charged. The famous shrine to the Virgin Mary at Lourdes offers water which some believe has healing powers. Mr Kim had claimed his ceramic and paper filters, and plastic cards used in water purifiers, had captured those powers for onward transmission. He and his associates allegedly told customers that different devices cured different illnesses, including diabetes and tumours. Professor Kim says if the medical properties are changed into digital signals, and radiated onto any water, the water will adapt those properties, the JoongAng Ilbo newspaper quoted police as saying. But police said experts had confirmed that this was completely impossible, based on no scientific evidence. The police also said that the people who had bought the devices had complained when they did not work. From here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10472269.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10472269.stm I love the bit about people complaing their holy water didn't work. It isn't like miracles are guaranteed if you get your stuff from the official church stash. Another reason to get the pope in court (as if we needed another!)
[FairfieldLife] New tribe discovered in Papua New Guinea
I find it really amazing that there could be people alive who don't know anything about the rest of the world. Things like how many people there are and what cities look like. Imagine blindfolding one of these guys and taking them to New York, mind blowing.Finding out about the rest of the human race will be the culture shock from hell. Hope they survive it. New tribe discovered in Papua New Guinea http://www.discoveryon.info/2010/06/new-tribe-discovered-in-papua-new.h\ tml In Science http://www.discoveryon.info/search/label/Science [http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YuR6V_Yr7Bk/TChb9GCDf1I/Fc0/rIXazzVDw\ wg/s400/tribe.jpg] http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YuR6V_Yr7Bk/TChb9GCDf1I/Fc0/rIXazzVDw\ wg/s1600/tribe.jpg A tribe of hunter gatherers living in trees in the remote forests of Indonesia's easternmost Papua region has been discovered for the first time by the country's census, an official said on Thursday. The nomadic tribe, called Koroway, numbers about 3,000 people speaking their own language and living off animals and plants in the forest, census officials found during the country's 2010 census survey. Their houses are in trees, their life is stone age, said Suntono, head of Indonesia's statistics agency for the Papua region, adding the tribe built ladders to huts in tall trees. After receiving reports from missionaries, census officials needed to walk for up to two weeks to find the tribe, after travelling by boat from the nearest permanent villages, but still only reached the fringes of their territory. The nearest city to the swampy southeastern corner of Papua is Merauke, the site of a planned giant food estate attracting interest from investors such as Singapore's Wilmar (WLIL.SI) to grow sugar. Scientists said last month they had found new species in Papua, including the world's smallest wallaby. The discoveries come as scientists warn of the threat of species loss as the planet warms and forests are destroyed to feed humans. Suntono said the tribe, naked except for banana leaves to cover their private parts, protected their area from outsiders as they said they depended on it for food, such as deer, wild boar, sago and bananas. A secessionist movement has smouldered for decades in politically sensitive and resource-rich Papua, with attacks in the past year on workers at Freeport McMoRan Copper Gold Inc's (FCX.N) Grasberg mine that has the world's largest gold reserves. There are more than 2,500 tribes in Papua and all have different languages, Suntono added. http://www.discoveryon.info/2010/06/new-tribe-discovered-in-papua-new.ht\ ml http://www.discoveryon.info/2010/06/new-tribe-discovered-in-papua-new.h\ tml
[FairfieldLife] Re: 'Psychic' octopus predicts Germany victory over England
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_re...@... wrote: And at the final whistle it's 4-1 to the Germans! A proper pasting. The only lesson to be learned from this is: Don't doubt the psychic octopus! A psychic octopus is said by its aquarium owners to have predicted the country's football team will knock England out of the World Cup. When consulted, Paul the octopus chose a mussel from a jar with the German flag on it ahead of one in a similar jar bearing the cross of St George. The two-year-old cephalopod has a record of predicting past German results in this manner, his owners say. Paul has so far correctly predicted all of Germany's results in South Africa. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10420131.stm
[FairfieldLife] Re: Finally, there has been a definitive test of astrology
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: And it was the French World Cup team. For those Americans who haven't been following the World Cup, France could not have *possibly* enhanced its already shaky image worldwide less. First, it lost consistently to teams it should have been able to beat while asleep. Then, when its star player reacted to the latest idiotic strategy being imposed on them by coach Raymond Domenech by suggest- ing that he was a fils d'une pute (translation in the article), the coach and the French federation sent him home in disgrace. The next day, the French team protested by refusing to practice under Domenech's guidance. Finally, losing again to a far weaker team, Domenech refused to shake the other team's coach's hand, and they all headed back to France for good, where hopefully they will be pelted by brie and written off as Belgians merely posing as French for the rest of their lives. And the SECRET of all of this? ASTROLOGY. Here's an article about Domenech's reliance on his proven, game-winning astrological strategies. Domenech is quoted in the article as reacting to a reporter by saying, If these are all the questions you are going to ask me, I am going to leave you, we are not from the same world. Now that's honest. I'm sure that a few on this forum live in his world, though, so perhaps they can tell us what went wrong with his astrological strategies. Perhaps his head was up Uranus. http://www.salon.com/life/this_week_in_crazy/index.html?story=/mwt/feature/2010/06/26/this_week_crazy_french_soccer_coach From the article: All parameters have to be considered and I have added one by saying there is astrology involved. When I have got a Leo in defence, I've always got my gun ready. I know he's going to want to show off at one moment or another and cost us. Asked point blank if a player's star sign would affect his chances of making the team, Domenech acknowledged that it enters into the equation at the end of the selection process when it is a question of choosing between players of equal ability. Woe unto Scorpios Domenech doesn't trust them. Stick with the psychic octopus is my advice, at least we *know* that works.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ken Wilber on Trivedi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony...@... wrote: Went to the one-day retreat in FF w/ Trivedi. About 180 people. Trivedi and Fred Poneman as the retreat m-c spent much of their time responding and positioning themselves relative to this mixed praise by Wilber. Justifying why Trivedi can and should be able to act the way he does. That he is justifiably different. That he is not just a healer but is transformational, gets his instructions from the Divine which puts him beyond criticism. Evidently the ladies who were fronting him have stopped because he is so volitile and abusive in personality. Om Samskaras. That said, he definitely has things to say in his way and is determined that way by force of character. Was quite a 'spiritual experience' meeting, as in that Genesis quote sort of way from John. Marketing, the 'transformational' aspect on material things is something they are trying to figure a name for, and evidently trademark as his. Naming the universal Genesis energy in nature as 'Trivedi' in some way. The Poneman brain for movement marketing/building at work the whole time. Seemed to be a formative meeting. Om Samskaras, -Buck in FF http://www.kenwilber.com/blog/show/637 Next weekend's one-day retreat in Fairfield -- http://www.trivedifoundation.org/fairfield-retreat $150 for one session. Trademarking names of energies. beyond criticism due to connection with the divine. This all sounds depressingly familiar. As does the 5000 scientific studies carried out at research centres all over the world. Still, with the FF crowd he won't have to explain or justify anything as they'll be well used to being fleeced in a similar manner. Can't help thinking there should be an element of once bitten twice shy about all this, I mean if the first technique they tried that was supposed to bring all glories of the divine into life had just left them a bit pale and tired, why would anyone willingly go through it again? Still, you can't doubt the optimism but it doesn't say much for long practise of TM if anyone in FF feels the need to go here and risk being banned from the dome (if they still go, which also doesn't say much about TM).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Saying it with authority might be tricky as there are several ways it could have happened, Hawking's idea involves two universes with time running in opposite directions, which should drive any theologians crazy as it forms no part of any explanation they've ever come up with. Cool. In our universe, we're living out the sequential, time-running-forward plots of 99.99% of the movies ever made. In the other universe, it's more like Christopher Nolan's brilliant Memento. One of my faves. Didn't know it was a Chris Nolan movie, he made those excellent Batman films with Christian Bale I think. A considerable improvement on the Val Kilmer efforts! If you haven't seen it, Guy Pearce's character has a real- life problem (meaning that it exists) -- he is unable to form short-term memories. Thus he must go through his life writing notes to himself, because in two minutes he won't remember what it is he's writing, or that what he writes about ever happened. Add to this the fact that the whole film is told backwards, starting from the end and moving to the beginning, and you have yerself one heckuva Quantum Tunneling movie. Not quite, of course, but as close as we can probably come to imagining life in this other back- wards time universe. I rented the DVD and it has the whole thing re-edited to run forwards in time so you can check that it all makes sense. It does. I'd never have Guessed Guy Pearce would make such a good actor after his start in Aussie soap Neighbours.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: In all of the comments below, it appears that you believe these theories to be true. But they have not been proven yet. So, you are putting your faith in these theories to explain away your doubts. Why? Not doubts, more a curiosity as to what the true explanations are. I don't have faith in them being true, they will turn out to be true or not, they don't need you to believe them. This is what is called, Scientism. Some people today put their faith in scientists to explain theological concepts. Scientists are not priests, or vice-versa. I always found Scientism is the sort of special pleading you hear from creationists who can't bear to think that someone else has a superior way of working things out that doesn't require beliefs or gods or wisdom received from mystic consciousness. Bugs them like crazy so the only way they have of balancing their world is by thinking that we are religious too. Let me repeat, science is not absolute it is merely an attempt to find the explanation and theories are always only as good as current data permits them to be. Having said that I think it's done rather well with evolution, physics and cosmology, not perfect but a huge step up from the old days where we thought that the earth was the centre of the universe, we even know how old the place is now! So it's all a work in progress but better than anything that came before because it has a way of falsifying it's findings, refining and testing it's theories and thus making its way (hopefully) towards an actual explanation of reality rather than just thinking it's already got one. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip Funny thing is I'm just filling in answers without reading your whole post first and I was honestly going to use as an example to my point above the fact that the Vatican sat down with a bunch of scientists to discuss their findings and at the point of the big bang theory, after reluctantly agreeing to the evidence for everything else, they decided to call a halt and declare the time before the big bang to be god's domain. Thereby denying what the scientists had to say about the time before the Big Bang, such as...? The point is that they had all their beliefs overturned or explained away, had to accept evolution and cosmology etc. and all they had left for god was the one thing nobody really knew about*. God of the gaps, and what a small gap for the old chap to be left with. Which is weird because it means that the catholic church are a bunch of deists, in flat contradiction of the bible. Funny old thing life. *All that has changed recently. Quantum tunneling is the current favoured explanation for the existence of the universe. Still no room for a god that I can see Does quantum tunneling tell us about the time before the Big Bang? It tells there wasn't a whole bunch going on or that one universe ended to create this one but was created at the same time as ours but time ran in the opposite direction, thus both universes tunelled each other out of the chaos of their demise/creation(?!?). But that time and space already existed, Hawking has corrected his earlier theory that time and space were created during the BB. But his QT theory is valid as a way of explaining a natural (non theist) origin of the universe. My point was (and it may be blunted if the answer to the above question is yes), if one day science *is* able to say with authority what happened in the time before the Big Bang, might the Church capitulate to that as well? Saying it with authority might be tricky as there are several ways it could have happened, Hawking's idea involves two universes with time running in opposite directions, which should drive any theologians crazy as it forms no part of any explanation they've ever come up with. Some others have our universe tunneling out of chaos. Actually the chaos is a pretty important part of every theory about the BB and it's the thing that gives the lie to creationism, you really couldn't tell from one side of it what the conditions were going to be like on the other. But it is possible that a god gave one throw of the dice and left our universe to get on with it,but he would have had to do it from the other side of the entropy we started with and would be forever gone and unknowable to us. Not what the mystics have been
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Saying it with authority might be tricky as there are several ways it could have happened, Hawking's idea involves two universes with time running in opposite directions, which should drive any theologians crazy as it forms no part of any explanation they've ever come up with. Cool. In our universe, we're living out the sequential, time-running-forward plots of 99.99% of the movies ever made. In the other universe, it's more like Christopher Nolan's brilliant Memento. One of my faves. Didn't know it was a Chris Nolan movie, he made those excellent Batman films with Christian Bale I think. A considerable improvement on the Val Kilmer efforts! Yup. The upcoming movie I'm most looking forward to is Nolan's Inception. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sd0ff1sbJU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3XzUYd6nrU Dream cast, uh, so to speak. Leonardo DiCaprio, Ken Watanabe, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Marion Cotillard, Ellen Page, Tom Hardy, Cillian Murphy, Tom Berenger, Michael Caine, and Lukas Haas. And there will be an IMAX version. Due in the US July 13th, in the UK July 16th. Cheers for the info, shall check it out. BTW, you remember the mansion they used as Wayne manor in Batman begins: http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/b/batmanbegins.html That was the first TM academy I lived in. What a house! 80 rooms, banqueting hall. No caves full of bats that I noticed but it was a cool place to live. It even gets its own wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentmore_Towers It was used as a location for many films when I was there, I'd often bump into Michael Caine or John Thaw in between takes as I was wandering from the flying room to my office. Got quite surreal at times bumping into people like that when you weren't expecting it. Kate Winslett was there once but I don't think she got out of the limo. Shame, I had my best NLP T shirt on, did she miss out or what! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/ If you haven't seen it, Guy Pearce's character has a real- life problem (meaning that it exists) -- he is unable to form short-term memories. Thus he must go through his life writing notes to himself, because in two minutes he won't remember what it is he's writing, or that what he writes about ever happened. Add to this the fact that the whole film is told backwards, starting from the end and moving to the beginning, and you have yerself one heckuva Quantum Tunneling movie. Not quite, of course, but as close as we can probably come to imagining life in this other back- wards time universe. I rented the DVD and it has the whole thing re-edited to run forwards in time so you can check that it all makes sense. It does. I'd never have Guessed Guy Pearce would make such a good actor after his start in Aussie soap Neighbours. Tremendous actor, with a range that astounds. From detective Ed Exley in L.A. Confidential to Adam/Felicia in The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.
[FairfieldLife] Re: That's a decimal point? I'm getting 20.4 mpg?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willy...@... wrote: TurquoiseB: My current car, which I bought used five years ago for 2000 Euros, had an original combined urban/hwy rating of 45.6 mpg when new, and still gets it. Using diesel fuel, which in Europe costs 30% less than gasoline. It is a fact that men tend to overestimate the gas mileage they get in their favorite car. YMMV?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: BTW, you remember the mansion they used as Wayne manor in Batman begins: http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/b/batmanbegins.html That was the first TM academy I lived in. What a house! 80 rooms, banqueting hall. No caves full of bats that I noticed but it was a cool place to live. It even gets its own wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentmore_Towers That's neat. It actually spoiled Batman begins for me, there I was in the cinema transported to a futuristic Gotham city and suddenly it switched scenes to Wayne manor and I was right back in wet and windy Bedfordshire. I got over it and enjoyed the movie though. The only TM movie location I've ever been in was a castle-like retreat house in Toronto in which I taught numerous residence courses. It was used as Guru Pitka's headquarters in Mike Myers' The Love Guru. However, another TM hotel almost was used in a movie. On my six-month Sidhis course in St. Moritz, a location scout came to look around the hotel we were staying in to see if it would be an appropriate set for an upcoming movie. The movie? Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. How appropriate would that have been, eh? :-) Probably very, they could have filmed one flew over the cuckoo's nest at Mentmore and saved a fortune in extras (no snark, I'm including myself here.) Kubrick filmed a lot of Eyes Wide Shut at Mentmore and upset everyone by having someone reading the vedas over the orgy scene. But he had actually re-filmed it somewhere else that had rooms 10 foot larger. He was really disappointed that he couldn't knock down any walls at Mentmore Towers. Heard a weird story about that film, after Kubrick died his family let a journalist look round his office where he kept his movie notes etc. He found a huge box of photos of front doors in London. Apparently Kubrick had a team of researchers scour the city taking photos of posh looking doors for the film. Then he had a replica made in the studio! Weird enough, but it's only in the film for two seconds. Tom Cruise knocks on it and it opens. That's it. Must have taken weeks, there's perfectionism for you!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: It appears that for you science and spiritually cannot mutually exist. But it is necessary to develop knowledge of both to give substance to your search for meaning. I don't believe I can make any argument in this forum that would satisfy you individually. Everything I've written here should suggest that science and spirituality DO co-exist for me it's just that when you apply a bit of critical thinking to a lot of the spiritual thinking the reality of the latter tends to disappear into the dreamworld from where it came. The only argument *anyone* could make to convince me that MMY (and all other seekers of the perennial philosophy) had somehow intuitively cognised a fundamental level of reality and that they can explain it better than science ever could is by demon- strating that this has in fact happened. There are many ways you could do this but I have *never* seen anything even remotely convincing that you can gain information about reality in this way. For some people, it is possible to have faith in a particular religious/spiritual system without completely proving it in scientific terms. But that person can pursue science in its true form for the sake of finding the truth in physical or relative terms. But what happens if the scientist asks questions that require answers that disaprove the thing he has faith about? All of a sudden he can't be religious any more, at least not without a bit of cognitive dissonance.. A good example of this is the speaker of this lecture who happens to be the director of the Vatican Observatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYOR0dPZc3I Funny thing is I'm just filling in answers without reading your whole post first and I was honestly going to use as an example to my point above the fact that the Vatican sat down with a bunch of scientists to discuss their findings and at the point of the big bang theory, after reluctantly agreeing to the evidence for everything else, they decided to call a halt and declare the time before the big bang to be god's domain. It's the vedic meme that gives us the belief that we are part of the unified field in a conscious way not anything that has come from physics or biology. The brain evolved to do stuff like this, it's capacity to kid itself is probably infinite. You're confusing MMY speak with reality. Dr. John Hagelin has made several presentations about the science or physics of MMY's ideas. If you don't agree with it or understand it, it's not my problem. Don't you think it would be your problem if you'd committed yourself to it as an explanation and it turned out to be a load of crap? I've watched a great many hours of J Hagelin and I find his claim to have finished Einstein's work to be laughable bordering on the offensive. He ought to be thankful that I never kept copies of his lectures as I'm sure youtube would make a happy home for them, and I wouldn't disable the comments section. The Physics of Yogic Flying indeed, I told a few physicists I know about his ideas behind that and they looked at me in shock, then humour. The mind doen't operate from that level, if proof is needed go and look in a flying room. Or do you think people are about to take off or create world peace? Being able to think may be a pretty good sign that you exist but not that anyone else does. And none of this has any bearing on the question of how we could know that the universe isn't just following physical principles, which is what it appears to be doing. I guess I just don't share your faith that MMY knew anything real about nature that has eluded everyone else. Maybe MMY is not the right person for you. There is nothing wrong about pursuing the answer as you see fit or that explains the nature of things as you see them. But part of faith is that there is a correct answer for you. The intellect in you will be in the process of evaluating/searching for the answer. This is why I prefer Truth to Faith. The Truth doesn't depend on what I think of it. I think the problem here is that being a religious or spiritual person gives you an idea that life is somehow programmed to attain high consciousness, to become godlike, or that the universe wants us to exist so it can admire itself (true, I've heard people say it). This is central to SCI, it's a mistaken belief as life doesn't *have* to do anything of the sort, and frequently doesn't. If DNA didn't make the occasional mistake when copying itself the changes in cell structure wouldn't have accrued to become the complexity we see today. If DNA was perfect we wouldn't be here discussing it. How does that fit with ideas about cosmic consciousness? This is an ugly little fact for the religious but a fact it most surely is. The engine of life is these unwitting mistakes, if you want to
[FairfieldLife] Re: Drill baby drill!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: You know what? Fuck those oil workers. Nationalize oil and grab the profits to support the beginning of a green infrastructure. Yay Edg, I'm with you! It's the only thing that makes sense, if we don't plan for peak oil now it will be too late. We can't trust the suits at BP and Texaco to tell us the truth and the governments are too scared to take it seriously and yet it's inevitable. End globalisation before it becomes too expensive. Invest in bicycle companies! Actually I might be a bit too radical a poster boy for the revolution. But it will come, as it has to: Oil is finite and the human race is going to want to survive so it's going to have to face up to reality and change it's ways Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: Here you go Rick: Rick: Thanks Joe. There are 33 rigs that are sitting idle and losing over $50 million per month. Over 8,000 workers have lost their jobs due to the moratorium. This is going to have a major impact on the economy of Gulf States. The moratorim will push new exploration out of the Gulf. It could take up to four months for the committee in charge of the investigation to reinstate the drilling. Drilling and supply companies in the Gulf are packing up and leaving now. After enjoying a brief reprieve from the barrage of criticism over his response to the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, President Barack Obama was dealt a significant blow Tuesday that may refresh perceptions that his administration's handling of the crisis has been improvised and haphazard... Read more: 'Ruling mocks offshore ban' Politico, June 22, 2010 http://tinyurl.com/22luu4r
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip Funny thing is I'm just filling in answers without reading your whole post first and I was honestly going to use as an example to my point above the fact that the Vatican sat down with a bunch of scientists to discuss their findings and at the point of the big bang theory, after reluctantly agreeing to the evidence for everything else, they decided to call a halt and declare the time before the big bang to be god's domain. Thereby denying what the scientists had to say about the time before the Big Bang, such as...? The point is that they had all their beliefs overturned or explained away, had to accept evolution and cosmology etc. and all they had left for god was the one thing nobody really knew about*. God of the gaps, and what a small gap for the old chap to be left with. Which is weird because it means that the catholic church are a bunch of deists, in flat contradiction of the bible. Funny old thing life. *All that has changed recently. Quantum tunneling is the current favoured explanation for the existence of the universe. Still no room for a god that I can see snip I've watched a great many hours of J Hagelin and I find his claim to have finished Einstein's work to be laughable bordering on the offensive. Sure it wasn't MMY who made that claim *about* Hagelin? It was everyone making the claim and the idiot stood there and lapped it up instead of telling them to cool it in case anyone outside of the TMO ever saw it. It all fits in with the delusion of the vedic wisdom being confirmed by science you see, the punters look at JH and think there is some sort of physical confirmation of MMYs ideas and the cheques keep rolling in. It's all good clean fun as long as it stays within the walls of the TMO. Or do they actually believe it? Nah, surely not.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: http://www.universetoday.com/2010/06/21/maybe-ets-calling-but-we-have-the-wrong-phone/ Heh heh. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: It appears that for you science and spiritually cannot mutually exist. But it is necessary to develop knowledge of both to give substance to your search for meaning. I don't believe I can make any argument in this forum that would satisfy you individually. Everything I've written here should suggest that science and spirituality DO co-exist for me it's just that when you apply a bit of critical thinking to a lot of the spiritual thinking the reality of the latter tends to disappear into the dreamworld from where it came. The only argument *anyone* could make to convince me that MMY (and all other seekers of the perennial philosophy) had somehow intuitively cognised a fundamental level of reality and that they can explain it better than science ever could is by demon- strating that this has in fact happened. There are many ways you could do this but I have *never* seen anything even remotely convincing that you can gain information about reality in this way. For some people, it is possible to have faith in a particular religious/spiritual system without completely proving it in scientific terms. But that person can pursue science in its true form for the sake of finding the truth in physical or relative terms. But what happens if the scientist asks questions that require answers that disaprove the thing he has faith about? All of a sudden he can't be religious any more, at least not without a bit of cognitive dissonance.. A good example of this is the speaker of this lecture who happens to be the director of the Vatican Observatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYOR0dPZc3I Funny thing is I'm just filling in answers without reading your whole post first and I was honestly going to use as an example to my point above the fact that the Vatican sat down with a bunch of scientists to discuss their findings and at the point of the big bang theory, after reluctantly agreeing to the evidence for everything else, they decided to call a halt and declare the time before the big bang to be god's domain. It's the vedic meme that gives us the belief that we are part of the unified field in a conscious way not anything that has come from physics or biology. The brain evolved to do stuff like this, it's capacity to kid itself is probably infinite. You're confusing MMY speak with reality. Dr. John Hagelin has made several presentations about the science or physics of MMY's ideas. If you don't agree with it or understand it, it's not my problem. Don't you think it would be your problem if you'd committed yourself to it as an explanation and it turned out to be a load of crap? I've watched a great many hours of J Hagelin and I find his claim to have finished Einstein's work to be laughable bordering on the offensive. He ought to be thankful that I never kept copies of his lectures as I'm sure youtube would make a happy home for them, and I wouldn't disable the comments section. The Physics of Yogic Flying indeed, I told a few physicists I know about his ideas behind that and they looked at me in shock, then humour. The mind doen't operate from that level, if proof is needed go and look in a flying room. Or do you think people are about to take off or create world peace? Being able to think may be a pretty good sign that you exist but not that anyone else does. And none of this has any bearing on the question of how we could know that the universe isn't just following physical principles, which is what it appears to be doing. I guess I just don't share your faith that MMY knew anything real about nature that has eluded everyone else. Maybe MMY is not the right person for you. There is nothing wrong about pursuing the answer as you see fit or that explains the nature of things as you see them. But part of faith is that there is a correct answer for you. The intellect in you will be in the process of evaluating/searching for the answer. This is why I prefer Truth to Faith. The Truth doesn't depend on what I think of it. I think the problem here is that being a religious or spiritual person gives you an idea that life is somehow programmed to attain high consciousness, to become godlike, or that the universe wants us to exist so it can admire itself (true, I've heard people say it). This is central to SCI, it's a mistaken belief as life doesn't *have* to do anything
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip Funny thing is I'm just filling in answers without reading your whole post first and I was honestly going to use as an example to my point above the fact that the Vatican sat down with a bunch of scientists to discuss their findings and at the point of the big bang theory, after reluctantly agreeing to the evidence for everything else, they decided to call a halt and declare the time before the big bang to be god's domain. Thereby denying what the scientists had to say about the time before the Big Bang, such as...? The point is that they had all their beliefs overturned or explained away, had to accept evolution and cosmology etc. and all they had left for god was the one thing nobody really knew about*. God of the gaps, and what a small gap for the old chap to be left with. Which is weird because it means that the catholic church are a bunch of deists, in flat contradiction of the bible. Funny old thing life. *All that has changed recently. Quantum tunneling is the current favoured explanation for the existence of the universe. Still no room for a god that I can see Does quantum tunneling tell us about the time before the Big Bang? It tells there wasn't a whole bunch going on or that one universe ended to create this one but was created at the same time as ours but time ran in the opposite direction, thus both universes tunelled each other out of the chaos of their demise/creation(?!?). But that time and space already existed, Hawking has corrected his earlier theory that time and space were created during the BB. But his QT theory is valid as a way of explaining a natural (non theist) origin of the universe. My point was (and it may be blunted if the answer to the above question is yes), if one day science *is* able to say with authority what happened in the time before the Big Bang, might the Church capitulate to that as well? Saying it with authority might be tricky as there are several ways it could have happened, Hawking's idea involves two universes with time running in opposite directions, which should drive any theologians crazy as it forms no part of any explanation they've ever come up with. Some others have our universe tunneling out of chaos. Actually the chaos is a pretty important part of every theory about the BB and it's the thing that gives the lie to creationism, you really couldn't tell from one side of it what the conditions were going to be like on the other. But it is possible that a god gave one throw of the dice and left our universe to get on with it,but he would have had to do it from the other side of the entropy we started with and would be forever gone and unknowable to us. Not what the mystics have been claiming all these years but I may have I just let the church off the hook! Nah. But if science could get authoritative the church would have to close up and go home because there wouldn't be any point staying open if your original belief system turned out to be a wrong on all counts. I suppose they would invent new gods, a lot of people seem to like that sort of thing. I just don't see anything inherently wrong with the God of the Gaps approach as long as the gaps stay gappish. My problem with it is that they claim one thing which turns out to be wrong and then say they meant something different all the time and god was really operating in another way etc. A bit of consistency between claim and evidence would help a lot to convince us sceptics that received wisdom is valid but I aint seen none yet and don't suppose I will. snip I've watched a great many hours of J Hagelin and I find his claim to have finished Einstein's work to be laughable bordering on the offensive. Sure it wasn't MMY who made that claim *about* Hagelin? It was everyone making the claim and the idiot stood there and lapped it up instead of telling them to cool it in case anyone outside of the TMO ever saw it. If it was MMY who first suggested it, Hagelin couldn't exactly tell him to cool it. Why?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: John wrote: Awesome to think about. But where are they? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h76JFOuCpXINR=1 What happened here on Earth is probably a meme that like a fractal repeats itself throughout the universe. We're just part of the physics. So civilizations could have developed far ahead of us as long as they got past overpopulation and oil spills. Please, see my replies to Edge and Hugo regarding this thread. Also, it is not likely that the life in the universe evolved and just multiplied itself mechanically to follow the rules of physics. It is more likely that the universe is a participatory or synergistic entity. To recoin the phrase, the universe is consciousness. It can be found in us and we in it. More likely? How could you possibly know? Because to borrow a phrase from Descartes, I think. Therefore, I am. In MMY speak, we as well as the universe/nature operate in the following triune synergy: we are the knower; we are the process of knowing; and, we are the known. Is it just me or does this not even make sense on it's own terms let alone in an argument about the possibility of life on other planets. That we are the process etc. doesn't mean the universe is involved in any way other than giving us a place to happen. You can be knower and known without needing to involve any deeper connecting spiritual principles. I'm sure you know that the illusion we have of perceiving the world means that enlightenment ideas of being at one are also illusions and exist entirely in our heads. We don't experience the unified field because we can't, but we can have the illusory sense of space in our heads being expanded by meditation. It's the vedic meme that gives us the belief that we are part of the unified field in a conscious way not anything that has come from physics or biology. The brain evolved to do stuff like this, it's capacity to kid itself is probably infinite. You're confusing MMY speak with reality. Being able to think may be a pretty good sign that you exist but not that anyone else does. And none of this has any bearing on the question of how we could know that the universe isn't just following physical principles, which is what it appears to be doing. I guess I just don't share your faith that MMY knew anything real about nature that has eluded everyone else. I think the problem here is that being a religious or spiritual person gives you an idea that life is somehow programmed to attain high consciousness, to become godlike, or that the universe wants us to exist so it can admire itself (true, I've heard people say it). This is central to SCI, it's a mistaken belief as life doesn't *have* to do anything of the sort, and frequently doesn't. If DNA didn't make the occasional mistake when copying itself the changes in cell structure wouldn't have accrued to become the complexity we see today. If DNA was perfect we wouldn't be here discussing it. How does that fit with ideas about cosmic consciousness? This is an ugly little fact for the religious but a fact it most surely is. The engine of life is these unwitting mistakes, if you want to believe that the universe is somehow a willing part of the process you need to explain why it lets so much randomness rule the outcomes. And that applies to quantum physics as well. Why does god love playing dice *so* much?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: What don't you understand about large numbers and inevitability? Regardless of the exact fraction of stars with planets, the total number of exoplanets must be very large. Since our own Milky Way Galaxy has at least 100 billion stars, it must also contain hundreds of billions of planets if not trillions of them. It doesn't matter that there are millions or billions of inhabitable planets if we don't know the variables for life to evolve. Suppose that life of any sort is a billion to one chance and that it going on to become complex enough to be self aware is another billion to one chance (possibly much more, possibly much less) If there are 100 billion planets in our galaxy then out of that number 100 may have life on them and so. we are the only intelligent lifeform in the galaxy and, statistically, the next 1000 galaxies. Hardly unreasonable maths. But as we don't know what the chances of it are, it could be way out and the galaxy is utterly teeming with intelligent beings. It's a nice idea but if so, where is everybody? Or is intelligent life much less likely, I have no idea but the fact it only happened here once in 4 billion years seems like it's a good indicator for us being very lonely indeed. Consciousness certainly wasn't inevitable here and I can't see why it would be anywhere else. Luckily we have a way of testing the all planets we have discovered recently for signs of life. It's rather clever, what you do is pass the reflected light from the planet through a prism to reveal the absorption lines caused by quantum interactions in light and matter, you can see what the subject is made of by what's missing from the spectrum when it's spread out. Pure genius. Wish I'd thought of it. What it means is that if a the atmosphere of an alien contains unstable molecules like methane or oxygen we'll be able to tell because the spectrum of reflected light will have black lines where the frequencies are missing. This will make it extremely likely that some sort of life has evolved because oxygen and methane, while occuring naturally, break down into simpler molecules very quickly and so need a constant process of replenishment. Like plant and animal life for instance. You won't be able to tell if it's intelligent or not but it's a good start. I expect that life in some simple forms will turn out to be extremely common but the stuff we really want to exist, like things we can talk to, will be much rarer. But then someone from the other side of the galaxy could check the Earths atmosphere, see all the pollution and conlude that we are intelligent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoplanets#Number_of_stars_with_planets And that's just one galaxy's worth. Billions of galaxies. And don't forget moons -- we have two moons in our own solar system that have life friendly conditions. Yet you would rather believe that humanity is unique despite that potentiality? Sounds like someone wants to be special. What's your deal? Seems to me you're pushing an atheist's agenda in that if one speculates that intelligent life is a one-off, then any proposal that there is a God is immediately attackable just on the sheer wastefulness of God's creativity -- who'd want a God that made such an immensity for only a nice photograph? Life everywhere is a gimme. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Amongst all the staggering coincidences and apparently rare requirements that common organic molecules have to go through in order to become complex life forms I forgot to mention that the trigger (for their always is one in leaps of evolution) for life to go from the happy bacterial state it was in for 3 billion years into it's post-cambrian cornucopia is the fact that the Earth was frozen solid for millions of years thus the only survivors were the bacteria that mutated into the cell that make up *all* living things today. This isn't creationism, it's hard empirical science and is easily checkable. I don't get this Hugo. Are you saying that snowball earth was a pre-requisite for our planet's rich life-status? It might very well have been yes. On one side of the freeze you have just bacteria no the other you have everything we know today. And that this is hard science? I did a quick-and-dirty wiki check and got the impression Life arose *despite* the conjectured snowball Earth
[FairfieldLife] Drill baby drill!
And they're off! They just couldn't wait, not even until the last spill has been cleaned up. It's just straight back to it, profit before common sense. Our addiction to ancient sunlight is going to be a tough one to break I can tell. Louisiana court overturns Barack Obama's ban on oil drilling in Gulf Judgment may allow BP to resume offshore oil exploration [Workers clean up oil on a beach in Grand isle, Louisiana] BP is free to resume deepwater drilling in the Gulf of Mexico after a Louisiana http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/louisiana judge overturned Barack Obama http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/barack-obama 's ban imposed in the wake of the worst environmental disaster in US history. The company operates at least one of the 33 rigs which have been idle since the moratorium last month, according to industry data. BP declined to confirm the location of its rigs or whether it intended to resume deepwater drilling in the Gulf. The ruling could also lead to further legal challenges by the oil http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/oil industry against the White House's handling of the crisis. The government has imposed a nationwide ban on issuing offshore drilling permits which could also come under attack in the courts. Yesterday, Louisiana-based judge Martin Feldman ruled that the federal government's six-month blanket moratorium in the Gulf was unjustified because it assumed that all deepwater drilling was as dangerous as BP's. An invalid agency decision to suspend drilling of wells in depths of over 500 feet simply cannot justify the immeasurable effect on the plaintiffs, the local economy, the Gulf region, and the critical present-day aspect of the availability of domestic energy in this country, Feldman said in his ruling, according to the Associated Press news agency. The ruling represents a victory for the oil industry and for state politicians. Both groups had argued the ban would result in tens of thousands of job losses across Louisiana if it stayed in place. Lawyers representing the oil services companies, who brought the lawsuit against the US federal government in New Orleans, warned a whole ecosystem of businesses was at risk. The White House said last night it would seek an immediate injunction against the ruling. Continuing drilling at these depths without knowing what happened does not make sense, said spokesman Robert Gibbs. But Camilo K Salas III, a New Orleans-based attorney, said Obama may privately welcome the decision. Now they can say: 'We did what we had to do but the judge overruled us.' That way they look good for trying to stop the drilling but the economy is not damaged. Obama has faced intense domestic criticism for not taking control of the crisis earlier and putting too much trust in BP's ineffective attempts to tackle the spill. BP has made recently huge discoveries of oil and gas in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico which require further drilling and development. In September last year, it announced that the Tiber well, drilled to a depth of more than 3,050 metres (10,000 feet) in the Gulf, making it the world's deepest exploration well to date, could hold as much as 3bn barrels of oil and gas. It dwarfs the Macondo prospect, where the Deepwater Horizon rig was drilling, at 1,500 metres and containing about 50m barrels. Oil companies are likely to wait until the outcome of any appeal is known before resuming deepwater drilling. Asked about whether BP would resume deepwater drilling in the Gulf, a spokesman said: We have no comment on this case or decision, as we are not a party to the case. Most of the fleet of rigs we have under contract are responding to the spill. We don't discuss publicly our drilling plans and the disposition of those assets. According to the Louisiana Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association, last month BP had in place one operational rig affected by the moratorium. Officials from the much maligned and now defunct regulator, the MMS, were reported as saying that BP had two in the Gulf. Shell had the most, at seven, according to the association, while Texas-based Anadarko Petroleum, BP's partner on the stricken Macondo well, operated three of the 33 affected. Environmental groups vowed to appeal against yesterday's ruling. The Sierra Club, one of the groups which gave testimony in Monday's hearings, said in a statement: We haven't even stopped the massive flow of oil yet, let alone begun to respond to the damage it has wrought. It's like there's been a car accident and we're talking about how to get the vehicle on the road again while the victim is still bleeding. Interior secretary Ken Salazar imposed the ban on 27 May, more than a month after the accident took place. He said that the ban was necessary to allow new safety procedures to be implemented and a thorough investigation of what caused the accident to be carried out. But Salazar was forced to apologise after officials said that the seven independent experts brought in
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip Being able to think may be a pretty good sign that you exist but not that anyone else does. And none of this has any bearing on the question of how we could know that the universe isn't just following physical principles, which is what it appears to be doing. I guess I just don't share your faith that MMY knew anything real about nature that has eluded everyone else. Actually, there have been quite a few people whom it has not eluded. This stuff isn't unique to MMY by any means. (No, that doesn't automatically give it more credibility; but it does mean you can't *diminish* its credibility by claiming MMY was the only person propounding it.) I wasn't attempting to *diminish* it, it was John who introduced the term MMY-speak which John seems to be rather big on. I was just responding directly what I think of MMY-speak. To avoid confusion in future I shall refer to MMY and all similar prophets, mystics, visionaries and seers. Or have I left anything out?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Define spiritual experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: So what's YOUR definition of a spiritual experience? I have two definitions that probably amount to the same thing. The first is TM related stuff like suddenly experiencing a shift in perception that seems to turn up reality but not in a jarring way. The much vaunted silence inside that allows the brain to make more of it's incoming data and also to relish it more too. Life seems more sumptous and more important in a personal way, like how a poem you liked as a kid means a lot more when you read it twenty years later. But we've all been there (or should have, refunds are not available) The other part of being spiritual is something that gives me a wider view of what I thought was the world. Like this morning I was out for my usual 6am 30 mile bike ride when I noticed at the half-way point that the roads weren't packed with traffic as they usually are thus giving me chance to see, hear and smell more of the countryside than I would do if I was hurrying along just trying not to get crushed by passing lorries. The shock of the real- isation that I could hear birds singing far off into the woods brought me out of my daydream and gave me a deeper sense of place. Instead of just a few trees standing around the place came alive in a new way. Similar thing at the National Gallery in London the other day: I was leaning in close to a Van Gogh to admire his brush strokes when I realised I could smell the paint! This took me right out of the gallery and into a hot asylum garden in France, a sort of trigger for realising it wasn't just a painting for calendar companies to make a fortune out of but a painting someone had actually slaved over. Time and distance disappear and even the hordes of European students wandering about with vacant stares and sharp rucksacs faded into the background. You may sneer and say that these aren't really spiritual experiences but I think anything that gives you a wider and richer vision of the world and your place in it counts because the spiritual - to give it it's original meaning - is what animates us. Perhaps all that only makes sense to me. And even more interesting from my religious sociology point of view, what's your definition of an experience that *isn't* spiritual? Anything to do with football.
[FairfieldLife] Druid saves UK world cup bid by lifting a curse!
And it seems to be working England winning 1-0 with ten minutes to go! Of course it may be a coinidence. Curse of African witch doctor lifted from England squad by Cornish druid [Curse of African witch doctor lifted from England squad by Cornish druid] England need all the help they can get to beat Slovenia today and advance to the second round of the World Cup. So Fabio Capello's side will presumably be happy to hear that the curse that is the real reason for their struggles so far has been lifted. Ed Prynn, the Archdruid of Cornwall, says he has lifted the magical burden that was placed on the team in Cape Town by an African witch doctor. The 73-year-old mystic, from Padstow, said that the likes of Wayne Rooney and Frank Lampard, who have so far performed poorly at the tournament, will now be free to wreak havoc on opposition defences. I have lifted the curse put on the England team by a witch doctor in Africa, he said. They will feel like a big black cloud has passed over and it will be a new beginning. People will probably think I've lost my marbles but when the bird landed on the goal during the Algeria game on Friday, it was like a red light telling me the team were in trouble. They were doomed. I felt it was my time to help England so I went to a stone hexagon with a hole in the middle and took the curse with me mentally from the east as I passed through the stone to face the west. I said to all the angels, mother nature and spirits that are connected with the beyond to help lift the curse off the England team for the rest of the time they in Africa. I will know if my spell has worked straight away on Wednesday and England will win even if it's a penalty shoot- out. While England fans will no doubt thank the archdruid for helping at our hour of need, he may get a red card from Cornish nationalists, who have campaigned this summer for supermarkets in Cornwall to stop selling foreign St George's Crosses for people to display publicly. From here: http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/oddnews/Curse-witch-doctor-lifted-squad/\ article-2336160-detail/article.html http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/oddnews/Curse-witch-doctor-lifted-squad\ /article-2336160-detail/article.html
[FairfieldLife] Higgs Boson - the musical!
This really cool. When I clicked on the play buttons to hear the audio I had a little shudder in case it was Rig Ved or something similar. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/science_and_environment/10385675.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/science_and_environment/10385675.stm The process of converting scientific data into sounds is called sonification. When you are hearing what the sonifications do you really are hearing the data. It's true to the data, and it's telling you something about the data that you couldn't know in any other way, said Archer Endrich, a software engineer working on the project. The aim is to give physicists at the LHC another way to analyse their data. The sonification team believes that ears are better suited than eyes to pick out the subtle changes that might indicate the detection of a new particle. We can hear clear structures in the sound, almost as if they had been composed. They seem to tell a little story all to themselves. They're so dynamic and shifting all the time, it does sound like a lot of the music that you hear in contemporary composition, he explained. Although the project's aim is to provide particle physicists with a new analysis tool, Archer Endrich believes that it may also enable us to eavesdrop on the harmonious background sound of the Universe. He said he hoped the particle collisions at Cern would reveal something new and something important about the nature of the Universe. And Mr Endrich says that those who have been involved in the project have felt something akin to a religious experience while listening to the sounds. You feel closer to the mystery of Nature which I think a lot of scientists do when they get deep into these matters, he said. Its so intriguing and there's so much mystery and so much to learn. The deeper you go, the more of a pattern you find and it's fascinating and it's uplifting.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Define spiritual experience
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: Very nice. I have only one quibble. *Anything* to do with football? Have you *seen* some of the women in the coverage of the World Cup? Some of them strike me as potential spiritual experiences. :-) No I haven't and I hate to think I'm missing out. I watched the first five minutes of the first England game and the only crowd shots were of the usual fat, bald, beer-monsters with red crosses painted on their faces. I'm thinking I should check out the Brazilian supporters, yes? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: So what's YOUR definition of a spiritual experience? I have two definitions that probably amount to the same thing. The first is TM related stuff like suddenly experiencing a shift in perception that seems to turn up reality but not in a jarring way. The much vaunted silence inside that allows the brain to make more of it's incoming data and also to relish it more too. Life seems more sumptous and more important in a personal way, like how a poem you liked as a kid means a lot more when you read it twenty years later. But we've all been there (or should have, refunds are not available) The other part of being spiritual is something that gives me a wider view of what I thought was the world. Like this morning I was out for my usual 6am 30 mile bike ride when I noticed at the half-way point that the roads weren't packed with traffic as they usually are thus giving me chance to see, hear and smell more of the countryside than I would do if I was hurrying along just trying not to get crushed by passing lorries. The shock of the real- isation that I could hear birds singing far off into the woods brought me out of my daydream and gave me a deeper sense of place. Instead of just a few trees standing around the place came alive in a new way. Similar thing at the National Gallery in London the other day: I was leaning in close to a Van Gogh to admire his brush strokes when I realised I could smell the paint! This took me right out of the gallery and into a hot asylum garden in France, a sort of trigger for realising it wasn't just a painting for calendar companies to make a fortune out of but a painting someone had actually slaved over. Time and distance disappear and even the hordes of European students wandering about with vacant stares and sharp rucksacs faded into the background. You may sneer and say that these aren't really spiritual experiences but I think anything that gives you a wider and richer vision of the world and your place in it counts because the spiritual - to give it it's original meaning - is what animates us. Perhaps all that only makes sense to me. And even more interesting from my religious sociology point of view, what's your definition of an experience that *isn't* spiritual? Anything to do with football.
[FairfieldLife] Jesus will return! Say 40% of Americans
Jesus will return by 2050, say 40pc of Americans More than 40 per cent of Americans believe Jesus Christ will return to Earth by 2050, according to a poll. [A statue of Jesus in Sydney, Australia. Jesus will return by 2050, say 40pc of Americans ] A statue of Jesus in Sydney, Australia. 40 per cent of Americans believe He will return by 2050. Photo: REUTERS Americans http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/ are largely optimistic about the future, according to the poll from the Pew Research Center For The People and The Press/Smithsonian Magazine. By mid century, 71 per cent believe cancer will be cured http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health , 66 per cent say artificial limbs will work better than real ones and 81 per cent believe computers http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ will be able to converse like humans. But Americans are also braced for a major energy crisis and a warming planet http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/ , according to the survey. More than half, or 58 per cent, fear another world war in the next 40 years and 53 per cent expect a terrorist attack against the United States using a nuclear weapon. The poll also shows a sharp dip in overall optimism from 1999, when 81 per cent said they were optimistic about life for themselves and their families. The current poll found just 64 per cent were. Sixty-one percent said they were optimistic about the future of the United States, compared to 70 percent in 1999. And 56 percent predicted the US economy would be stronger in 40 years, compared to 64 percent of those polled in 1999. The results were compiled from telephone and online interviews with 1,546 adults in April. The margin of error is plus or minus 3 percentage points, according to Pew. Here are some other findings of the poll: 71 per cent believe cancer will be cured by 2050. 81 per cent believe computers will be able to converse like humans. 68 per cent of those under 30 predict a world war by 2050. 53 per cent say ordinary people will travel in space Nearly three-quarters, or 74 per cent, of those polled believe it likely that most of our energy will come from sources other than coal, oil, and gas. Yet 72 per cent believe the world is likely to experience a major worldwide energy crisis by 2050. 66 per cent say the Earth will definitely or probably get warmer but it breaks down strongly along political lines, with just 48 per cent of Republicans saying so and 83 per cent of Democrats. 42 per cent say it is likely that scientists will be able to tell what people are thinking by scanning their brains but 55 say this will definitely or probably not happen. 89 per cent believe a woman will be elected US president by 2050. 86 per cent say it is at least probable that most Americans will have to work into their 70s before retiring. 41 per cent say Jesus Christ will return within the next 40 years while 46 per cent say this will definitely or probably not happen. 63 per cent anticipate the demise of paper money 61 per cent say almost no one will send letters by 2050. 31 per cent expect the planet will be struck by an asteroid. Found this here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7847625/Jesus-will-r\ eturn-by-2050-say-40pc-of-Americans.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/7847625/Jesus-will-\ return-by-2050-say-40pc-of-Americans.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: What don't you understand about large numbers and inevitability? I don't know. I don't know what I don't know about anything. Regardless of the exact fraction of stars with planets, the total number of exoplanets must be very large. Since our own Milky Way Galaxy has at least 100 billion stars, it must also contain hundreds of billions of planets if not trillions of them. So what? It still doesn't prove that complex life is a given. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoplanets#Number_of_stars_with_planets And that's just one galaxy's worth. Billions of galaxies. And don't forget moons -- we have two moons in our own solar system that have life friendly conditions. And you have noticed that they don't display signs of intelligent life? Yet you would rather believe that humanity is unique despite that potentiality? Sounds like someone wants to be special. I don't believe anything, if you'd followed what I was saying rather than taking umbrage at every imagined slight you'd know I was just pointing out that it may have been harder than some people think for life to get beyond the bacterial stage. What's your deal? Seems to me you're pushing an atheist's agenda in that if one speculates that intelligent life is a one-off, then any proposal that there is a God is immediately attackable just on the sheer wastefulness of God's creativity -- who'd want a God that made such an immensity for only a nice photograph? That's how it seems to you does it? I wouldn't attack concepts of god for that reason but for the fact they appear to be unnecessary. The fact that all god memes I've encountered are flatly contradicted by the available evidence means you'd need a huge gap in explanation versus theory to need one at all. God is a human invention that makes some feel special, not me. I feel special to be part of this huge amazing planet of wonders. All the more so as life seems to have got here under it's own steam, which is an idea I find incredible, much more so than any god I've come across. If this is the only planet in our galaxy (or even universe) with any intelligent life on it I will feel special indeed but only for what's happened. If it turns out smart life forms are everywhere I'll be even happier. OTOH what if we are alone and we are trashing the place for oil and hamburgers, wiping out the seas and destroying the forests, what a waste. If I was in charge I'd make everyone live as though they actually cared about the big picture. OTOOH what if the above is true and there really is a god! Oops. Life everywhere is a gimme. Life is very likely to be everywhere, but intelligent life maybe not. And if it is: Where is it? Which brings us back to the beginning...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: http://www.centauri-dreams.org/ Today's article at the above Web page is about how Brown Dwarf stars can be expected to force life with just such a cold period challenge, and note that a Brown Dwarf is a very common astronomical entity. The habitable period for a Brown Dwarf planet can be as long as ten billion years despite the fact that the star being circled is not burning hydrogen and is simply cooling off. Good find, glad you're agreeing with me today about life needing to be forced into complexity by the grazing pressure of environ- mental stress. If you're late to click on the link, the article will be under the new today's article -- just scroll down. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Amongst all the staggering coincidences and apparently rare requirements that common organic molecules have to go through in order to become complex life forms I forgot to mention that the trigger (for their always is one in leaps of evolution) for life to go from the happy bacterial state it was in for 3 billion years into it's post-cambrian cornucopia is the fact that the Earth was frozen solid for millions of years thus the only survivors were the bacteria that mutated into the cell that make up *all* living things today. This isn't creationism, it's hard empirical science and is easily checkable. I don't get this Hugo. Are you saying that snowball earth was a pre-requisite for our planet's rich life-status? It might very well have been yes. On one side of the freeze you have just bacteria no the other you have everything we know today. And that this is hard science? I did a quick-and-dirty wiki check and got the impression Life arose *despite* the conjectured snowball Earth, not *because* of it. Can't believe everything you read on the internet I'm afraid. I'm talking about the change from simple single-celled stuff before a major cataclysm to a stronger type of cell (that ALL life now shares) the improvements in cell structure may well have been forced on us by environmental pressure. Bit too much of a coincidence otherwise. The fact that one event precedes another event does not in itself make it a trigger does it? Or have I misunderstood you? Probably. In this case you'd have to prove that the freeze *wasn't* the trigger and come up with some other explanation for the arrival of complex life when, for 3 billion years, before a sudden massive change in climate there wasn't any. And that's the hard empirical science? No mechanism (it seems) and just a lack of other explanations? ;-) No mechanism, oh please! Actually, when you say this: Bit too much of a coincidence otherwise - doesn't that really count against the more general point you are trying to make? Viz. *Our* Life may be just some highly improbable coincidence. After all, if there is an *explanation* for turbo-boosted Cambrian explosions, and the explanation is just this: That the biology needs serious stress testing to fire it up... Then what you need to show is that such stressing is rare and unusual around the galaxy. Which is...unlikely? *Probably* not! if the only explanation is a Gallic shrug and coincidence!, then yes, maybe so. (By the way - who is it that is asserting this theory viz. a snowball planet may be a necessary condition for complex life? It's not a HugoFintlewoodLewix *special* is it?) Oh dear. The theory isn't that a world needs to go through a deep freeze in order for complex life to evolve. The thread is a response to the idea that complex, indeed conscious life is a given wherever organic molecules arise. I am just pointing out that there was a long path to the complexity seen on earth that may not have just happened as though it was inevitable, but the very fact that it took so long is a bit of a giveaway when the CE happened right after a serious bit of environmental pressure on the bacteria swimming around at the time. On Earth, the snowball theory might be absolutely essential to explain the cambrian explosion or it may not, if it isn't why did life wait so long before diversifying so much? *That* would be the coincidence. Or it may have come about because of a different environmental pressure. Seems rather likely though
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: I called him a creationist as a way to signal that he's not reachable by logic or fact and that he'll trollishly defend untoward positions with an endless parade of trying to spin the debate instead of resolve the debate. And, I actually do feel like he's trying to make the case that today's creationists maintain with statements which have been deeply considered in the literature and found to be easily debunked. Perhaps, but only just barely, Hugo may simply just not be well-read instead of the hidden agendaist that I think he obviously presents to us. And, yeah, sometimes I'm just a name caller, cuz it gets to the point. Ah Edg, if only it was a point worth getting to. I think the problem here is your dislike of opinions that differ from your own. My point in the where is everyone? debate is that for every glass-half-full theory that someone comes up with there is an equally valid and contrary we-just-might-be-all-alone one. Amongst all the staggering coincidences and apparently rare requirements that common organic molecules have to go through in order to become complex life forms I forgot to mention that the trigger (for their always is one in leaps of evolution) for life to go from the happy bacterial state it was in for 3 billion years into it's post-cambrian cornucopia is the fact that the Earth was frozen solid for millions of years thus the only survivors were the bacteria that mutated into the cell that make up *all* living things today. This isn't creationism, it's hard empirical science and is easily checkable. You can continue to believe that complex life is common in the universe, I'm just saying that it may not be so, coz we appear to have had a long hard journey getting here. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: snip I have concluded that you are not actually reading my words with understandingif at all. Calling Hugo a creationist doesn't exactly put you in the best position to conclude that *he* is not reading *your* words with understanding. Just sayin'...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: Amongst all the staggering coincidences and apparently rare requirements that common organic molecules have to go through in order to become complex life forms I forgot to mention that the trigger (for their always is one in leaps of evolution) for life to go from the happy bacterial state it was in for 3 billion years into it's post-cambrian cornucopia is the fact that the Earth was frozen solid for millions of years thus the only survivors were the bacteria that mutated into the cell that make up *all* living things today. This isn't creationism, it's hard empirical science and is easily checkable. I don't get this Hugo. Are you saying that snowball earth was a pre-requisite for our planet's rich life-status? It might very well have been yes. On one side of the freeze you have just bacteria no the other you have everything we know today. And that this is hard science? I did a quick-and-dirty wiki check and got the impression Life arose *despite* the conjectured snowball Earth, not *because* of it. Can't believe everything you read on the internet I'm afraid. I'm talking about the change from simple single-celled stuff before a major cataclysm to a stronger type of cell (that ALL life now shares) the improvements in cell structure may well have been forced on us by environmental pressure. Bit too much of a coincidence otherwise. The fact that one event precedes another event does not in itself make it a trigger does it? Or have I misunderstood you? Probably. In this case you'd have to prove that the freeze *wasn't* the trigger and come up with some other explanation for the arrival of complex life when, for 3 billion years, before a sudden massive change in climate there wasn't any. And that's the hard empirical science? No mechanism (it seems) and just a lack of other explanations? ;-) No mechanism, oh please! Actually, when you say this: Bit too much of a coincidence otherwise - doesn't that really count against the more general point you are trying to make? Viz. *Our* Life may be just some highly improbable coincidence. After all, if there is an *explanation* for turbo-boosted Cambrian explosions, and the explanation is just this: That the biology needs serious stress testing to fire it up... Then what you need to show is that such stressing is rare and unusual around the galaxy. Which is...unlikely? *Probably* not! if the only explanation is a Gallic shrug and coincidence!, then yes, maybe so. (By the way - who is it that is asserting this theory viz. a snowball planet may be a necessary condition for complex life? It's not a HugoFintlewoodLewix *special* is it?) Oh dear. The theory isn't that a world needs to go through a deep freeze in order for complex life to evolve. The thread is a response to the idea that complex, indeed conscious life is a given wherever organic molecules arise. I am just pointing out that there was a long path to the complexity seen on earth that may not have just happened as though it was inevitable, but the very fact that it took so long is a bit of a giveaway when the CE happened right after a serious bit of environmental pressure on the bacteria swimming around at the time. On Earth, the snowball theory might be absolutely essential to explain the cambrian explosion or it may not, if it isn't why did life wait so long before diversifying so much? *That* would be the coincidence. Or it may have come about because of a different environmental pressure. Seems rather likely though that because it took 3 billion years *then* an environmental catastrophe (as far as bacteria are concerned) before life got really interesting seems like a bit of a give- away. If complex life would have happened anyway, why not straight away? You have to look at it in the context of why species change anyway and that is because the world changes and they have to adapt. Could be predators, environmental change. Species drift genetically anyway but selection pressure makes it happen fast. But without the joining of the two ancient bacteria that give us the modern cell everything is based on we wouldn't be here and that only happened after 3 billion years, question is: would it have happened without sufficient pressure from the environment? Would we still all be happily swimming in our primordial stew without the big snowball? Seems likely, 3 billion years is an awful long time Do you ever actually think about things like this, there is big (and growing) belief that complex life is an inevitable consequence
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: John wrote: Awesome to think about. But where are they? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h76JFOuCpXINR=1 What happened here on Earth is probably a meme that like a fractal repeats itself throughout the universe. We're just part of the physics. So civilizations could have developed far ahead of us as long as they got past overpopulation and oil spills. Please, see my replies to Edge and Hugo regarding this thread. Also, it is not likely that the life in the universe evolved and just multiplied itself mechanically to follow the rules of physics. It is more likely that the universe is a participatory or synergistic entity. To recoin the phrase, the universe is consciousness. It can be found in us and we in it. More likely? How could you possibly know?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: So that's it. I didn't see it at first -- Hugo is a creationist. No sense dealing with him from now on. If you find that easier than thinking about what I've got to say then fine. Ugh. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Awesome to think about. But where are they? They are probably busy not existing. Consider the fact that there is only complex life on Earth because DNA isn't perfect at it's job, if it didn't make a few teeny mistakes every time it made a copy of itself the complications that compounded to make all life we see today wouldn't have happened, it would still be bacteria at most floating about in the primordial sea. That's one fluke but consider also the many different types of complex life that *could* have developed a self aware consciousness but didn't. How many millions of generations went by before the particular events that forced us into the state we are happened? If consciousness like ours is a given whenever you have life why did it wait so long and to be the only one on Earth so far? If we disappeared is there any other animal that looks like it might follow in our footsteps and develop an advanced culture? They all seem happy scratching their arses and eating each other. To evolve complex behaviour requires a pressure from the environment, what happened to us that could happen to something else and have the same effect? Another big problem with the 'where is everybody?' idea is that without a long carboniferous period we wouldn't have had the energy to create our civilisation and probably wouldn't have had the time to do all the required science. How many other potential life harbouring planets have a huge supply of free energy lying around like the Earth does? Just a few of the variables you have to toy with when considering life on other planets but if Earth is anything to go by you need a *lot* of coincedences for life like us to get going and even more for us to be self aware so how can anyone claim it's likely to have happened twice just because there are rather a lot of planets on which it could have happened. I doubt we are alone as far as life - as in microbes and moss - are concerned but something we could talk to is going to be a hell of a lot rarer. It happened once here, once in 4 billion years. And it rather goes without saying that it needn't have, it took a very particular set of circumstances to a very particular type of animal. The odds *against* life like us must be absolutely astronomical. And it has to be said it is *very* quiet out there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h76JFOuCpXINR=1
[FairfieldLife] Homeopathy's Last Stand?
Homeopathy Awareness Week: Is this the homeopaths' last stand? It's Homeopathy Awareness Week, but the alternative medicine may be about to face a final deadly assault from critics, writes Edzard Ernst * Edzard Ernst http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/edzardernst * guardian.co.uk http://www.guardian.co.uk/ , Monday 14 June 2010 16.53 BST * * [Tubes of granules used in manufacture of a homeopathic remedy] * * Tubes of granules used in the manufacture of a homeopathic remedy for flu. Evidence that homeopathy works better than placebo is unconvincing. Photograph: Sipa Press/Rex Features British homeopaths are celebrating Homeopathy Awareness Week http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/whats-new/latest-news/haw.aspx , yet it seems to me there is very little for them to celebrate. Earlier this year, a report from the Commons Science and Technology Committee http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-archive/science\ -technology/s-t-homeopathy-inquiry/ concluded that the principles of homeopathy http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/homeopathy are implausible and that the evidence fails to show that it works better than placebo. The MPs also criticised homeopaths for trying to mislead the public by providing inaccurate information http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2010/feb/04/homeopathic-associat\ ion-evidence-commons-committee . Their recommendation to government was to stop funding homeopathy on the NHS. Then the Prince of Wales's Foundation for Integrated Health, a staunch supporter of homeopathy in the NHS, folded in the midst of a police investigation for fraud and money laundering http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/apr/30/prince-wales-health-charity-fr\ aud . Last month, the British Medical Association described homeopathy as witchcraft http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=4126047 and called for an end to all funding on the NHS. A streak of bad luck? Not really. Homeopathy's fortunes have been crumbling for quite some time. The evidence to suggest that it has effects beyond those of a placebo has become less and less convincing. In 2005, The Lancet even pronounced the end of homeopathy http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2005/aug/26/health.medicineandhealth3\ . As a result, one of the five NHS-funded homeopathic hospitals had to close. After assessing the science, its NHS trust found that the evidence did not justify any further funding. Faced with increasing criticism, UK homeopaths become more and more desperate. My team has found that the Society of Homeopaths http://www.homeopathy-soh.org/ even appears to have been in breach of its own code of ethics in attempting to promote homeopathy. On the society's website, numerous statements about efficacy were made that were not backed by science and so were not allowed under its own regulations. The society's chief executive commented at the time, in November 2009, that she was grateful to me for highlighting these issues and that the society would investigate and make amendments where appropriate. The website has since changed but many, perhaps even most, members of that organisation continue to make claims that violate their society's ethical standards. This is not a trivial or academic point. Recently Simon Singh http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/simon-singh won the libel case that the British Chiropractic Association (BCA) had brought against him. Singh had alleged that the BCA made unsupported claims. When the case was brought, several bloggers and sceptics then went through the claims made by UK chiropractors with a fine tooth comb http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/mar/01/simon-singh-libel-case-ch\ iropractors and subsequently reported around 600 of them to their regulator for violating the rules that regulate their practice. These are serious allegations that cannot be swept under the carpet. Perusing this number of complaints in an orderly fashion will be extremely costly. The expense could turn out to be unaffordable for chiropractors and thus bankrupt their organisations. So even as homeopaths celebrate their awareness week, bloggers and sceptics enthused by their success on the chiropractic front might already be considering action against any unsubstantiated claims made by UK homeopaths. This could truly be the end of homeopathy. Edzard Ernst http://sites.pcmd.ac.uk/compmed/ernst.htm is professor of complementary medicine at the Peninsula Medical School in Exeter
[FairfieldLife] Dark Matter may not exist!
Dark energy may not exist in space, scientists claim Dark matter and energy, the mysterious forces thought to make up 96 per cent of the universe, may not exist according to a groundbreaking study. By Heidi Blake http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/heidi-blake/ Published: 7:30AM BST 15 Jun 2010 [Dark energy may not exist in space, scientists claim] The studies into dark energy were made by physicists at Durham University Photo: PA British scientists have claimed that the method used to calculate the make-up of the universe may be wrong. The universe as we know it formed of recognisable components such as planets, stars, asteroids and gas - accounts for just four per cent of the cosmos, according to the decades old Standard Model http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7828889/The-Standard-Mo\ del-of-the-universe-explained.html . The rest is thought to be made up of mysterious dark matter and dark energy http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/6062688/Dark-energy-how-would-you-ex\ plain-it.html . This permeates space and powers the expansion of the universe. But physicists at Durham University now claim the calculations on which the Standard Model is based could be fatally flawed. This raises the possibility that the dark side of the cosmos does not exist, which in turn could mean that the universe is expanding less quickly than previously thought. Dr Robert Massey of the Royal Astronomical Society, which published the findings, said: This would challenge greatly our assumptions about the long term future of the universe, because the assumption at the moment is that the universe is expanding and if it isn't that would be a huge shock. It could even mean that the expansion of the universe is slowing down and could grind to a halt. A new analysis of measurements taken by NASA of Big Bang heat radiation in 2001 showed that the heat waves may be far smaller than previously thought. When the measurements were first taken in 2001 the size of the ripples in the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation led scientists to conclude that the cosmos is made up of four percent normal matter, 22 percent dark or invisible matter and 74 percent dark energy. But scientists now claim that the waves of radiation which were previously measured at about twice the size of the full moon may in fact be less than half that size. Professor Tom Shanks, who led the research, said: CMB observations are a powerful tool for cosmology and it is vital to check for systematic effects. If our results prove correct then it will become less likely that dark energy and exotic matter particles dominate the universe. So the evidence that the universe has a dark side will weaken. Found this here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7827674/Dark-energy-may-not-exi\ st-in-space-scientists-claim.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/7827674/Dark-energy-may-not-ex\ ist-in-space-scientists-claim.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Alien Civilizations could be One Million Years Ahead of Earth
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: Awesome to think about. But where are they? They are probably busy not existing. Consider the fact that there is only complex life on Earth because DNA isn't perfect at it's job, if it didn't make a few teeny mistakes every time it made a copy of itself the complications that compounded to make all life we see today wouldn't have happened, it would still be bacteria at most floating about in the primordial sea. That's one fluke but consider also the many different types of complex life that *could* have developed a self aware consciousness but didn't. How many millions of generations went by before the particular events that forced us into the state we are happened? If consciousness like ours is a given whenever you have life why did it wait so long and to be the only one on Earth so far? If we disappeared is there any other animal that looks like it might follow in our footsteps and develop an advanced culture? They all seem happy scratching their arses and eating each other. To evolve complex behaviour requires a pressure from the environment, what happened to us that could happen to something else and have the same effect? Another big problem with the 'where is everybody?' idea is that without a long carboniferous period we wouldn't have had the energy to create our civilisation and probably wouldn't have had the time to do all the required science. How many other potential life harbouring planets have a huge supply of free energy lying around like the Earth does? Just a few of the variables you have to toy with when considering life on other planets but if Earth is anything to go by you need a *lot* of coincedences for life like us to get going and even more for us to be self aware so how can anyone claim it's likely to have happened twice just because there are rather a lot of planets on which it could have happened. I doubt we are alone as far as life - as in microbes and moss - are concerned but something we could talk to is going to be a hell of a lot rarer. It happened once here, once in 4 billion years. And it rather goes without saying that it needn't have, it took a very particular set of circumstances to a very particular type of animal. The odds *against* life like us must be absolutely astronomical. And it has to be said it is *very* quiet out there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h76JFOuCpXINR=1
[FairfieldLife] Re: Obama gets tough with BP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer r...@... wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fairfieldl...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hugo Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:11 AM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Obama gets tough with BP http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/15/barack-obama-oval-office-a ddress-bp-oil-spill I think getting tough on polluting companies is a great idea. How about getting Union Carbide to clean up Bophal and pay some decent compensation there. And make Texaco pay for the appalling environmental damage and abuse they inflicted on the indigenous people in Ecuador. And then we can all sit back, drink some coffee and wake up a bit. We are running out of oil, so fast that we have to resort to stupidity like deep water drilling and raping Alaska for it's tar sands when really we should be cutting back and looking for alternatives. But how will that sit with the average American voter? Not very well is my guess, so unless the US wants to take steps to stop being the world number one gas guzzler they should shut up and get used to the fact that oil is going to become both more scarce, more expensive and potentially more dangerous to extract in the *very* near future. The minute the spill happened I felt it was Nature's way of telling us in no uncertain terms that we have to look to alternative energy sources. We don't change unless we're forced to. And even when it's obvious to any idiot that we need to, the Republicans oppose it. In England it's basically laziness that holds back progress with fossil-fuel alternatives. I know people that would drive to their car if it was possible. 97% of car journeys here are of distances *less* than 3 miles. I could manage that on a pogo-stick. But legislating against such a basic freedom won't get you any votes. It seems high petrol tax is the only thing that gets people thinking. That and disasters like this oil spill. A wake up call for sure.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Margaret Thatcher blasts the phony labor unions!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wg...@... wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpdbEK3E4U8feature=fvw B, Maggie Thatch on FFL, whatever next! I get a shiver down my spine when I hear that voice, reminds me of growing up in one of the many deep recessions that woman inflicted on this country, high unemployment, no investment in public services. It's for your own good! They'd cry, Unemployment is a price worth paying if it doesn't affect you perhaps. Still, she was right about the end of the trade union rundown 70's, their own worst enemies that lot, didn't know when to stop. Boy it was tough in those days and now they are back. The Tories are in power and it's business as usual, watch the exodus of those few with enough money to escape.
[FairfieldLife] Re: God is objective and scientific !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_z...@... wrote: God is objective and scientific according to theoretical physicist Dr Amit Goswami, PhD : It's objective and it's scientific. You can call it God if you want, but you don't have to. Quantum consciousness will do. Nonlocality, tangled hierarchy, and discontinuity: these signatures of quantum consciousness have been independently verified by leading researchers worldwide. This experimental data and its conclusions inform us that it is the mistaken materialist view that is at the center of most of our worlds problems today. To address these problems, we now have a science of spirituality that is fully verifiable and objective. Funny thing is the world he describes was discovered scient- ifically via theory and experimentation, it bears no relation to any of the ancient texts I ever read. Which is the point I've been making, received wisdom doesn't actually teach us anything meaningful about the objective (or even subjective) world you need careful experiments to do that. Just changing the name of a poorly understood level of nature to god doesn't prove that the ancients were right about anything *unless* they both predicted the parameters we are now discovering *and* can show that this level of nature actually has any of the traditionally associated features of a supreme being. Until then I think what they are doing is ascribing the term god to something they don't fully understand as a way of hopefully explaining it. Which historically has been god's job, it's just now, thanks to scientific enquiry, his job doesn't include much at all beyond controlling the trajetory of a few sub-atomic particles and making it all look random. From : http://www.amitgoswami.org/ http://www.amitgoswami.org/ And I recognise this guy from what the bleep do we know? Not what I'd call a satisfactory introduction to quantum physics. Let me clarify that I don't know if I subscribe to Goswami POV 100% in details, because I have not studied him thoroughly because it is my POV that each of us( 7billion) has a unique POV just as no two snowflakes are alike; of course there are similarities and groups of agreement will form etc now for my( anatol's ) perspective: As in religion, so in science there is not one body of knowledge out there with the idealistic imaginative concepts that the devotees of science have about it. As in religion, these devotees have not really delved into it much but rather cling to their idealistic imaginative concepts about science, or religion. And so we have the current new religion called science. For the very last time: The difference between science and religion is that science can and will and does change it's mind when new information comes in. We wouldn't be where we are in our understanding of nature without this fact.
[FairfieldLife] Obama gets tough with BP
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/15/barack-obama-oval-office-address-bp-oil-spill I think getting tough on polluting companies is a great idea. How about getting Union Carbide to clean up Bophal and pay some decent compensation there. And make Texaco pay for the appalling environmental damage and abuse they inflicted on the indigenous people in Ecuador. And then we can all sit back, drink some coffee and wake up a bit. We are running out of oil, so fast that we have to resort to stupidity like deep water drilling and raping Alaska for it's tar sands when really we should be cutting back and looking for alternatives. But how will that sit with the average American voter? Not very well is my guess, so unless the US wants to take steps to stop being the world number one gas guzzler they should shut up and get used to the fact that oil is going to become both more scarce, more expensive and potentially more dangerous to extract in the *very* near future.
[FairfieldLife] Re: God is objective and scientific ! = hey Hugo, you quit too soon
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_z...@... wrote: hey Hugo, you quit too soon and missed the good part; you keep asking for proof of one spiritual principle; here i give you one and ask you to become a real scientist in your own life not in your head believing others: I didn't quit too soon, I didn't think it was relevant to what we were talking about. Finding a way through problems is all part of life but I don't see how your story invalidates what you learnt as a physicist in any way. Sure you may have been better off studying psychology as far as your depression went but the sub-atomic world is still there and unaffected by anything we do (no matter what Nils Bohr thought). As I say, I do practise this self-exploration and it does help but there isn't any similarity between that and any of the physical sciences, they are different classes of things. Poems are great for mental nourishment but understanding how the brain works has proved to be anything but intuitive, it was only a few hundred years ago that the best guess on what the brain was for was cooling blood as it went round the body! What you say about self-development has it's place but we were talking about scientific discovery, and the greatest advances in our understanding of the world have come from scientific method not meditating. but your personal discoveries about how to live a happier life may very well have. I enjoy the process but don't think the experiences are part of any revelation of the actual physical world as it would be outside of my head. I don't think consciousness is fundamental to the universe but is a macro level function of the brain, therefore I think we only kid ourselves that we have an experience of the unified field. It's all in the mind, I think we need to understand out how consciousness works before we get carried away with ascribing heavenly metaphors to how it feels when we bend it out of shape when meditating. When I was a physicist, 39 years ago, I would wonder how can people understand anything about life and the universe without having the understating that is available to scientists in terms of math, formulas, principles, logic. But, when at age 31, my first huge personal problem arose, plunging me into deep depression, my physics was useless. I went to the university psychologist and wondered if I had studied the wrong science? But just for a short time, because it was only of little help. But what really helped, were these miraculous things: 1)Very long walks and watching my thoughts unravel, all the good the bad and the ugly with some insights 2)Reading J. Krishnamurti's Think on These Things which not only transformed my deep depression into joy without a reason sort of like the peace that passeth all understanding ; there definitely was some shift in my perception of life and world, a lot more really then physics did 3)Starting TM, immediately I had excess to a more peaceful mind 4)Spending one month with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi; the feeling was don't know if what he says is valid; but, definitely know that I am experiencing something new which I can only call love not personal, hard to define, like some presence that is just there, not thoughts in the head, a very subtle feeling but more real then the gross field of perceptions 5)Several months later experience of awareness resting in the heart without thoughts; just peace and love; the love was so intense had to be God's Love as in God is Love. This definitely was experiential proof of the spiritual principle God is Love as real as any physics experiment, actually a lot more real So that is how I went from studying the science of physics to not only studying but also living the science of spirituality, the only science that includes all the other sciences. So, from this perspective, I can appreciate all the other fields of knowledge, from material science to art, music, poetry or whatever as each being valid but not superior to another; no competition; nothing wins unless all win; if only one wins, sure disaster as in oil spill The ultimate quest, whether spiritual, philosophical or scientific, is Who the heck Am I? Thanks for listening. Om Namah Sivaya, anatol --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_zinc@ wrote: God is objective and scientific according to theoretical physicist Dr Amit Goswami, PhD : It's objective and it's scientific. You can call it God if you want, but you don't have to. Quantum consciousness will do. Nonlocality, tangled hierarchy, and discontinuity: these signatures of quantum consciousness have been independently verified by leading researchers worldwide. This experimental data and its conclusions inform us that it is the mistaken materialist
[FairfieldLife] Physicists get hint of multiple god particles!
Before anyone gets carried away, the term God particle wasn't coined by Peter Higgs the theorist who first proposed the Higgs boson. Its theistic nickname was coined by the editor of Nobel-prize winning physicist Leon Lederman, but Higgs himself wasn't happy with the label and found it embarrassing because: it is the kind of misuse of terminology which I think might offend some people. Lederman wanted to refer to it as that 'goddamn particle' but his editor felt it would hurt sales of his book. Higgs just refers to it as The particle named after me. US experiment hints at 'multiple God particles' By Paul Rincon Science reporter, BBC News [DZero (Fermilab)] The idea comes from results gathered by the DZero experiment There may be multiple versions of the elusive God particle - or Higgs boson - according to a new study. Finding the Higgs is the primary aim of the £6bn ($10bn) Large Hadron Collider (LHC) experiment near Geneva. But recent results from the LHC's US rival suggest physicists could be hunting five particles, not one. The data may point to new laws of physics beyond the current accepted theory - known as the Standard Model. The Higgs boson's nickname comes from its importance to the Standard Model; it is the sub-atomic particle which explains why all other particles have mass. However, despite decades trying, no-one, so far, has detected it. The idea of multiple Higgs bosons is supported by results gathered by the DZero experiment at the Tevatron particle accelerator, operated by Fermilab in Illinois, US. Read the whole article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/science_and_environment/10313875.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/science_and_environment/10313875.stm
[FairfieldLife] Teenager throws puppy at Hells Angels then flees on stolen bulldozer!
Takes all sorts to make up this crazy world, but I reckon I've found my headline of the week: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/7830524/German-throws-puppy-at-Hells-Angels-bikers-then-flees-on-bulldozer.html
[FairfieldLife] Re: Science will win what ?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_z...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_zinc@ wrote: Science will win what ? Science will win the race to explain what the universe is and where it came from. dear hugo, the ancient Vedic Sages( real scientists in my POV ) have already done that and since then, there have always been and currently are some self-realized mystics, yogis, saints and sages to confirm and pass on the eternal universal principles of life and source and their oneness. I can see weare going to disagree as to what constitutes real science forever. I think you are kidding yourself if you think that the any ancient text even remotely resembles the wonders that modern scientific instruments have revealed about the world. If just one ancient idea had been confirmed by objective testing I would be impressed, I guess it won't matter how many times I say it either you aint gonna respond! at this period of time, there seems to be an upsurge of folks, even many ordinary walking amongst us, that are awakening to these eternal universal principles and sharing their self-realization experiences on Rick's batgap.com, Richard Miller's nevernothere.com, conscious.tv, mooji.com, satsangwithstuart.com, many teachers on youtube, and many other websites, Adyashanti, Eckhart Tolle, sufi mystic Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee, http://hamsa-yoga.org/ oh, great saints like amma.org, karunamayi.org, shreemaa.org, others I'm happy for them, I've been there myself and had a great time but I disagree with the interpretation of the experiences, and the fact lots of other people accept the interpretations doesn't mean they are more likely to be correct. Does it. why not start and do your own research like the ancients did and arrive at your own conclusions instead of arguing who is right or wrong and relying on external knowledge which is constantly changing If you'd read any of my posts and understood them you would know that that is precisely whaT I do and will continue to do, I have the same experiences as you guys I just have a different standard of evidence as to what the experiences mean. Nullius in verba. I would say external knowledge is being constantly refined rather than just changing If we left it to John Hagelin to explain the universe what we have really? Yagyas and jyotish being part of quantum physics even though there isn't even a passably convincing physical framework for it, or how about his claim that he's finished Einsteins work? Surely that grates on you a bit. If we left cosmology to these clowns we wouldn't actually know anything at all, we'd still be living in the iron age, scared of solar eclipses and praying for the gods to help us. Which is where the TMO is now because, being a religion, it doesn't see the need to test whether it's beliefs and techn- ologies actually work which is what seperates it from science. It won't constantly change simply because it thinks it is 100% correct already! ask yourself who am I? and listen sincerely clue: the real answer is non-verbal, it's called self-realization Been there, it's nice. But you can have both worlds you know. om namah sivaya, anatol
[FairfieldLife] Nasa predicts end of the world in 2013!
Well not really but I had to get your attention. Could be bad though, last time this happened it completely knocked out America's communications network, luckily in 1859 that only meant the telegraph service. Could be a bit more serious now... Nasa warns solar flares from 'huge space storm' will cause devastation Britain could face widespread power blackouts and be left without critical communication signals for long periods of time, after the earth is hit by a once-in-a-generation space storm, Nasa has warned. By Andrew Hough http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/andrew-hough/ Published: 1:00PM BST 14 Jun 2010 National power grids could overheat and air travel severely disrupted while electronic items, navigation devices and major satellites could stop working after the Sun reaches its maximum power in a few years. Senior space agency scientists believe the Earth will be hit with unprecedented levels of magnetic energy from solar flares after the Sun wakes from a deep slumber sometime around 2013, The Daily Telegraph can disclose. In a new warning, Nasa said the super storm would hit like a bolt of lightning and could cause catastrophic consequences for the world's health, emergency services and national security unless precautions are taken. Scientists believe it could damage everything from emergency services' systems, hospital equipment, banking systems and air traffic control devices, through to everyday items such as home computers, iPods and Sat Navs. Due to humans' heavy reliance on electronic devices, which are sensitive to magnetic energy, the storm could leave a multi-billion pound damage bill and potentially devastating problems for governments. We know it is coming but we don't know how bad it is going to be, Dr Richard Fisher, the director of Nasa's Heliophysics division, told The Daily Telegraph in an interview. It will disrupt communication devices such as satellites and car navigations, air travel, the banking system, our computers, everything that is electronic. It will cause major problems for the world. Large areas will be without electricity power and to repair that damage will be hard as that takes time. Dr Fisher added: Systems will just not work. The flares change the magnetic field on the earth that is rapid and like a lightning bolt. That is the solar affect. A space weather conference in Washington DC last week http://www.nswp.gov/swef/swef_2010.html , attended by Nasa scientists, policy-makers, researchers and government officials, was told of similar warnings. While scientists have previously told of the dangers of the storm, Dr Fisher's comments are the most comprehensive warnings from Nasa to date. Dr Fisher, 69, said the storm, which will cause the Sun to reach temperatures of more than 10,000 F (5500C), occurred only a few times over a person's life. Every 22 years the Sun's magnetic energy cycle peaks while the number of sun spots or flares hits a maximum level every 11 years. Dr Fisher, a Nasa scientist for 20 years http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2010/04jun_swef/ , said these two events would combine in 2013 to produce huge levels of radiation. He said large swathes of the world could face being without power for several months, although he admitted that was unlikely. A more likely scenario was that large areas, including northern Europe and Britain which have fragile power grids, would be without power and access to electronic devices for hours, possibly even days. He said preparations were similar to those in a hurricane season, where authorities knew a problem was imminent but did not know how serious it would be. I think the issue is now that modern society is so dependant on electronics, mobile phones and satellites, much more so than the last time this occurred, he said. There is a severe economic impact from this. We take it very seriously. The economic impact could be like a large, major hurricane or storm. The National Academy of Sciences warned two years ago that power grids, GPS navigation, air travel, financial services and emergency radio communications could all be knocked out by intense solar activity. It warned a powerful solar storm could cause twenty times more economic damage than Hurricane Katrina. That storm devastated New Orleans in 2005 and left an estimated damage bill of more than $125bn (£85bn). Dr Fisher said precautions could be taken including creating back up systems for hospitals and power grids and allow development on satellite safe modes. If you know that a hazard is coming and you have time enough to prepare and take precautions, then you can avoid trouble, he added. His division, a department of the Science Mission Directorate at Nasa headquarters in Washington DC, which investigates the Sun's influence on the earth, uses dozens of satellites to study the threat The government has said it was aware of the threat and contingency plans were in place to cope with the fall out
[FairfieldLife] Re: Einstein was a man of faith !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_z...@... wrote: OK, Hugo, You are entitled to your POV, just like the rest of us. If it makes you happy, more power to you. If not, maybe go outside your fixed POV and explore a little; that's what real scientist do; get a hug from Amma or whatever. It does make me happy old chap, but I still like to get out of my POV which is why I joined the TMO as a live-in psyche explorer, I still meditate but wasn't convinced that MMY had the answers I was looking for. For many reasons that I'd be happy to explain, I see the TMO as dogmatic rather than open minded and definitely not scientifc in any meaningful way. But it was great fun finding that out and fun is what life is fundamentally all about if you're doing it properly. Maharishi encouraged physicists in the 70's and 80's that it should be possible to fulfill Einstein's dream of formulating Unified Field theories. And they did come up with what are called string theories, if I remember correctly. Actually I don't think any one ever came up with a theory because MMY asked them to. Interestingly the string theories are about as much use as theology because they are unprovable, there are as many different versions as there are atoms in the universe making which one you're in tricky to pin down experimentally. And they aren't fundamental as they require a background to operate in and so aren't UF theories at all. In fact it was the hubris of string theorists with their belief that the universe could be explained mathematically that held back physics, no experiments = no certainty = no Nobel prizes. The LHC at CERN is more a kind of hit and hope machine than a way of testing a particluar thoery. Fun to see what it comes up with though And it's interesting that the attributes of the Unified Field string theories basically was/is the same as the attributes of the God of the mystics or even that of the core essence of religions if you know where to look ~ a field of seeming unmanifest nothingness with attributes of omnipresence-omniscience-omnipotence in which and from which all manifest creation arises. I think you muddy the waters here with this same as the mystics argument, that the universe may have started with a unified field isn't the same as MMYs field of intelligence as that is supposed to still be active in the world in an actually intelligent way, but no one ever explains why the quantum world appears essentially random which it surely wouldn't there was a god controlling it, epecially as that makes gods job of intervening in the world a tricky business. Add to that the conceit that we can affect the world at this level by meditating and it's clear they are two totally seperate concepts and that the quantum mystics are mis- appropriating the lingo to make everyone think they are the same thing and that TM science has a parralel at CERN. Or as many current teachers say, by giving up all definitions, all preconceptions, self-realize the awareness which may seem initially as total emptiness/nothingness and then observe that it contains everything. In other words, don't juts rely on science and scientist external to yourself, become a real scientist yourself and experience truth rather that try to define it, which of course you can always do later for the fun of communicating. Observe, record, reason, take a break, allow thoughts to stop, allow intuition, have confidence in your own intuition, observe without thoughts, repeat, have fun, be happy, get a hug once a year; this is my science. Mine too actually, except for the hug part, sounds like fun though..
[FairfieldLife] Re: Science will win what ?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_z...@... wrote: Science will win what ? Science will win the race to explain what the universe is and where it came from. No contest really as the competition from the worlds religions amounts - to believe it or don't be a part of our religion. They don't really offer any convincing supporting evidence. Not that I've ever seen, quite the contrary in fact. Compare Genesis to On The Origin Of Species, no contest. Quote from some previous post: science will win because it works What an absurd and meaningless thing to say. Doesn't everything work? My new hard-drive recorder doesn't! Everything that happens works, but not necessarily for good. That's the thing about science, it's a tool and therefore has no moral sense of its own. It's us that decide whether to use for good purposes or bad. Mindless entertainment works to keep people mindless; does that mean it wins? Let's see how science works: Nuclear bombs work, gas chambers, thousands of dangerous chemicals, nuclear plants work very well at producing dangerous radiation waste, suicidal processed foods, can dig oil wells so deep cannot control them, go to the moon (what the heck for), produce weapons for war, transplant organs for a few at a staggering cost while billions go hungry, . Obviously, I'm leaving out some of the good stuff, to make this point because it does appear that survival of human race is at risk. I think going to the moon was one of the good things, what happened to your sense of wonder and willingness to think outside the box, break boundaries etc. I actually think the moon shots were worth it just for the photos they bought back. Man at his best.
[FairfieldLife] As luck would have it......
Why crossing your fingers works if you're lucky In laboratory conditions, people who are superstitious can succeed. Does that apply in real life? * [superstition-nadal] * * Rafael Nadal's winning way of superstitiously pulling up his socks before serving. Photograph: Tom Jenkins for the Guardian As someone who strives sanctimoniously to be right, I'm a masochistic fan of research showing that people who are wrong have better lives than I do. This is why I particularly enjoyed a study from Psychological Science showing that being superstitious improves performance in a whole string of different tasks. Now, I'm always a bit conflicted about this kind of psychology http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/psychology research. On my left shoulder is an angel who points out it's risky to extrapolate from laboratory conditions to the real world; that publication bias in this field (the phenomenon where uninteresting findings get left in a desk drawer unpublished forever) is probably considerable; and that it's uncommon to see a genuinely systematic review of the literature on these kinds of topics, bringing together all the conflicting research in one place. I am not Malcolm Gladwell, if that helps to frame the issue more clearly, and I think his books are a bit silly and overstated. On my right shoulder is a devil who thinks this stuff is all really cool and fun. He is typing right now. The researchers did four miniature experiments. In the first, they took 28 students, more than 80% of whom said they believed in good luck, and randomly assigned them to either a superstition-activated or a control condition. Then they put them on a putting green. To activate a superstition, for half of them, when handing over the ball the experimenter said: Here is your ball. So far it has turned out to be a lucky ball. For the other half, the experimenter just said: This is the ball everyone has used so far. Each participant had 10 goes at trying to get a hole in one from a distance of 100cm (39in). And lo, the students playing with a lucky ball did significantly better than the others, with a mean score of 6.42, against 4.75 for the others. Then they moved on to a second experiment. Fifty-one students were asked to perform a motor-dexterity task, an irritating, fiddly Perspex game to get 36 little balls into 36 little holes by tilting the box. Beforehand, they were randomly assigned to one of three groups, each hearing a different phrase just before starting. The superstition activator was I press the thumbs for you, a German equivalent of the English expression I keep my fingers crossed. Of the two control or comparison groups, members of one were told I press the watch for you, with the idea that this implied a similar level of encouragement (I'm not so sure about that) and the others were told On 'go' you go. As predicted, those who were told someone was keeping their fingers crossed for them finished the task significantly faster. Then things got more interesting, as the researchers tried to unpick why this was happening. They took 41 students who had a lucky charm, and asked them to bring it to the session. It was either kept in the room or taken out to be photographed. Then they were told about the memory task they were due to perform, and asked questions about how confident they felt. The ones with their lucky charm in the room performed better in the memory game than those without and also reported higher levels of self-efficacy, which was correlated with performance. Finally, they probed these mechanisms even further. Thirty-one students were asked to bring their lucky charm; it was either taken away or not, and they were given an anagram task. Before starting, they were asked to set a goal: what percentage of all the hidden words did they think they could find? Then they began: as expected, participants who had their lucky charm in the room performed better and reported a higher degree of self-efficacy as before. But, more than that, they set higher goals and persisted longer in working on the anagram task. So there you go. Almost everyone has some kind of superstition (mine is that I should mention I noticed this study through my friends Vaughan Bell and Ed Yong on Twitter). What's interesting is that superstition works, because it improves confidence, lets you set higher goals and encourages you to work harder. In a lab. You now know everything you need to decide if this applies to your life. From Ben Goldacre's Bad Science column here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jun/12/bad-science-goldacre-super\ stition http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jun/12/bad-science-goldacre-supe\ rstition
[FairfieldLife] The second coming?
http://swns.com/couple-find-face-of-baby-jesus-in-wallpaper-while-decorating-their-kitchen-091324.html Quite why Jesus would choose to make his great return in a manner like these never seems to enter the minds of people like this. God moves in mysterious ways?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Science will win what ?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_sp...@... wrote:  I beg your pardon, there is no race here. All religions were created during the pre-industrial agricultural civilisation. People who believe in these religions have first wave mentality.  These people have a romantic imagination of how life was during the first wave era. Life was actually brutal and short.  So there is no race or competition here. That's a fair point but the first wavers do seem to be hanging around longer than you'd think. Must be all that eternal life they promise, good idea that - keeps em keen. I was hoping it was a race as I won't live forever and I really hope to at least have an inkling of this Theory of Everything that seems to be achievable. Be nice to know that everything has been accounted for, be nicer if I can actually understand it too. Science is the only viable method. As long as we can still argue about it, I agree. --- On Mon, 6/14/10, Hugo fintlewoodle...@... wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Science will win what ? Date: Monday, June 14, 2010, 8:30 AM  --- anatol_zinc anatol_zinc@ wrote: Science will win what ? Science will win the race to explain what the universe is and where it came from. No contest really as the competition from the worlds religions amounts - to believe it or don't be a part of our religion. They don't really offer any convincing supporting evidence. Not that I've ever seen, quite the contrary in fact. Compare Genesis to On The Origin Of Species, no contest. Quote from some previous post: science will win because it works What an absurd and meaningless thing to say. Doesn't everything work? My new hard-drive recorder doesn't! Everything that happens works, but not necessarily for good. That's the thing about science, it's a tool and therefore has no moral sense of its own. It's us that decide whether to use for good purposes or bad. Mindless entertainment works to keep people mindless; does that mean it wins? Let's see how science works: Nuclear bombs work, gas chambers, thousands of dangerous chemicals, nuclear plants work very well at producing dangerous radiation waste, suicidal processed foods, can dig oil wells so deep cannot control them, go to the moon (what the heck for), produce weapons for war, transplant organs for a few at a staggering cost while billions go hungry,â¦. Obviously, I'm leaving out some of the good stuff, to make this point because it does appear that survival of human race is at risk. I think going to the moon was one of the good things, what happened to your sense of wonder and willingness to think outside the box, break boundaries etc. I actually think the moon shots were worth it just for the photos they bought back. Man at his best.  Â
[FairfieldLife] Re: Einstein was a man of faith !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_z...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_zinc@ wrote: Einstein's theory of General Relativity predicted that light would bend bypassing a massive planet like the Sun. That was the only feasible experiment for his untested theory at the time since there were no lasers, etc. Einstein was asked what if the experiment proves his theory wrong? He said that would mean the experiment was not done properly. Amen ! HUGO: Wrong about the faith part I'm afraid. That was a measure simply of how confident he was about his theory of gravity and light. .. OK Hugo, so you see a big difference between the word faith and the word confidence. Not really, but you were implying Einstein was religious about science when he wasn't at all. I guess the difference between faith in god and confidence in his theory is that his theory was always testable when the existence of a god of any sort appears not to be. One can therefore have confidence in one's theories but one can only have faith in god. Well I'm no psychic, I don't believe anyone is. And I am confident about that :-) So let me guess, you might say I have confidence in myself and no-faith in God. Well what if, myself = God and confidence = faith? You can see how absurd the above assertion is. I would say I have occasional confidence in myself and no faith that there is a god. Couldn't see the point really, god is a bit of a failed hypothesis as far as I'm concerned, I've read all the holy books and god seems like a part of cultures that are so distant it's hard to say what god actually was to them. Was he an astronaut or the halucinations from a now defunct part of our brains? Was he an invention by the ruling class to keep the lower orders in line or was he a real live flesh and blood supreme creator being who just happens to not want to have anything to do with us any more? Or was he a name people came up with to explain how they felt in altered states of consciousness bought on by too much mushroom tea or meditation, or both? It's like the atheist said I did not believe in God, until I found out I am God I would say idiot rather than athiest, all they did was change a definition of something to incorporate a change of opinion about themselves. It isn't like thinking you are god changes the meaning of any other discoveries in any way whatsoever, it is merely a religious concept that makes spiritual people feel better about themselves. No harm in it but it's a conclusion based on faith. If you could *prove* you were god, that would be a different matter but I suspect most people would just say that isn't what god means.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is Science?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: Hugo, are you offering to be my student? Thanks, but no. The fact Einstein turned out to right about a lot of things he thought to be obvious was never under discussion here. In fact if you look at another post I just did you'll see me defending his confidence in his ideas. From your acid-toned smarming about my opinions of Hawking, I can tell that you're not in a studious mood -- and that's dumber than dumb, because while you can't fix stupid, being stupid on purpose is a crime for which a proper penalty cannot be assessed -- for what could limit the cost of the immorality of blinding oneself? Actually I'm always in a studious mood, for some reason it suits you to be offended about my objection to your insulting attitude towards someone who's struggled with a horrifying disability his whole life. I don't believe for a minute that being in a wheel chair has influenced his opinion of whether or not there is a god or alien life, it isn't like they are unreasonable posistions to hold. (Interesting that you interpret my shock at your opinion of Hawking as acid-toned smarming, says a lot about you.) Einstein was, by my definition of spiritual, a Maharishi. And his honoring intuition was not merely for show. He knew his math wasn't up to the task of embodying his intuition that God doesn't play dice, and yet he knew he was right and never once in his life stopped trying to catch God red-handed running the universe down to least construct. This YOUR interpretation of Einstein, for every quote you can find of his supporting the mystical I can find more that don't. Many scientists (Hawking included) use phrases like mind of god to describe deep levels of physics, it doesn't mean they think that the universe is fundamentally intelligent in the way we are or in the way Maharishi taught just that they think it possible to know everything in a final physical sense, the original paramaters of creation. Anyone who's had a thought should know that every single one of them comes from a subtle level of existence that is not easily grasped -- that is, we, as egos, do not compose our own thinking but that we are as if victims of a thought machine which makes decisions without consulting the personality. Agreed. As I pointed out in my post to Anatol below. Einstein peered into his own mind enough to see this and that despite uncertainty, true randomness is yet but a concept -- not a proven entity. And just as you and I know that our thoughts are ours despite not being on the thought making committee, -- because the thought committee itself is a product of yet subtler processes -- Einstein knew that there was cosmic mind that also owned the underlying the processes of nature even if we could not have the alacrity to see behind the Uncertainty Curtain of Oz. The analogy doesn't fit, thoughts appear in our minds but we know there is an unconscious process involving large areas of the brain refering to past experience, social conditioning etc. and then deciding what becomes conscious. You can even see it working. The idea that universe also appears from a more complex underlying intelligence is a TM idea not shared by Einstein or any other working physicist, what you have is miniscule potentials in fluctuating fields none of which are fully understood. See mind of god above. Unless Einstein actually believed that the universe is under intelligent control at the very micro level in the way John Hagelin does, if so I missed it and it's a *very* religious concept because it appears to be totally unnecessary and of a totally different order of things to him being confident about gravity bending space and time, those things you can visualise, god in control of quantum physics is an invention by mystics and people who need an ultimate being for some reason. And people who like to make money out of others by linking sciencey sounding phrases with their own bullshit new age therapies. But as I say in my post below, it's possible and so cannot be discounted, but as it's unnecessary for an explanation of how the universe works, why bother? Why bother introducing unnecessary complexities to nature when simpler ones will do just as well. I think it's man's programming to seek greater complexity to explain simpler things, it's a god type hang-up we've yet to get over. Darwin did the best job of demolishing this erroneous idea. What a hero. Him, Newton Einstein. What a gang! Today's science is 100% reporting miracles constantly. Depends entirely on your definition of miracle. They appear miraculous because they are largely unexplained. Have you read David Deutsch yet? Try this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/jun/10/david-deutsch-multiverse-fabric-reality It should at least give you hope that some questions are answerable. It's a damn good book about
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is Science?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_z...@... wrote: What is Science? Good question, how about: A quest to explain the universe independent of our beliefs/opinions of what it might be? Or simpler: The search for what *is* rather than what we want it to be? Ok, let's see what I can offer from my 2cents physics PhD about the following quote: Hawkins ~ There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, and science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win because it works. Is above assumption the whole truth and nothing but the truth? No, it is not! Hawkins is taking a very narrow view and polarizing it by taking the worst of religion and the best of science. This makes me say that Hawkins, if the above quote is accurate, is much much less of a real scientist than Einstein was. It is true that as a young man Einstein felt that much in the bible was not possible, but as he got older he became more tolerant toward religious views, and overall he had his own cosmic religion and did not shy away from using the word God to mean the supreme unknown intelligence of the universe. Like most physicists (indeed humans in general) Einstein would be fascinated by concepts of god but that doesn't mean he believed it and even if he did it wouldn't mean such a thing was any more or less likely. There are plenty of religious scientists as science is simply a tool for working things out, some of these are religious by upbringing and simply ignore the contradictions between faith and discovery, like the school science teacher on a recent TV doc who believed the world was only 4000 years old but knew from experiment (and taught as much to pupils) that it is in fact billions of years older. He couldn't explain his personal disconnect between the two positions but was convinced he was right about the biblical age(I consider him functionally insane). Of the others I don't know, you'd have to ask them but I'm sure they'd agree that a belief in god can't be acquired scientifically. The knowledge uncovered by science is what is important here, a scientist believing in god doesn't make god more likely, the only thing that would do that is if god turned out to be a better explanation than any of the alternatives. Maharishi said, don't remember his words exactly, that the word God is the most [exalted] of all the words and that not believing in God is simply due to a weak mind. Rather self-serving don't you think? I know that Maharishi is right about this from my years of studying engineering, math, physics( PhD ) and giving up on God; until I met Maharishi and his lecture atheists shaking hands with God ; thank you Maharishi. But, before having all sort of discussions about Hawkins etc, shouldn't we first ask the question whether the initial assumption is valid and true? Even if it may be partially valid, is it not necessary to look at the whole picture, as wide a scope as possible, if one is interested in the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So, how about asking what is science? We could define science initially as : Observation = recording observation = analysis = making an initial assumption and giving it a fancy name hypothesis = further observation to confirm assumption = repeated confirmations elevate the assumption into a theory = using theory to make predictions and/or technological applications = often newer better theories replace older narrower theories = sometimes older theories have to be discarded as bogus, as mistakes due to wrong assumptions; on the other hand some old theories continue to be practical in the limited environment where they work very well like Newtonian Mechanics However, observation and reason in the above steps are only part of the story. We need to ask where do the hypothetical assumptions come from? Einstein said that his [amazing] insights came not from his rational mind of observation and reason, but from intuition. And besides that Einstein had a scholarly friend who was into eastern philosophy. Hm, perhaps the idea for Einstein's Unified Field Theory came from the Vedic view of Brahman, the Absolute Source of All? And then again perhaps not. The thing about Einsteins insights (and all similar scientific revelations like the discovery of the shape of DNA in a dream) is that he spent his entire life thinking about physics, energy and matter. He is the first to admit that he was standing on the shoulders of giants, if it wasn't for the discoveries of Newton, Poincare etc. he would never have had his revelations. That the unconscious mind does our thinking for us should come as no surprise as it runs our bodies for us without us even noticing (have you seen how much work goes into programming a robot to walk? we do it automatically) so someone who has both an enquiring
[FairfieldLife] Re: Einstein was a man of faith !
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_z...@... wrote: Einstein's theory of General Relativity predicted that light would bend bypassing a massive planet like the Sun. That was the only feasible experiment for his untested theory at the time since there were no lasers, etc. Einstein was asked what if the experiment proves his theory wrong? He said that would mean the experiment was not done properly. Amen ! Wrong about the faith part I'm afraid. That was a measure simply of how confident he was about his theory of gravity and light. The experiment has since been carried out using a total solar eclipse to reveal that light from stars that should have been behind the sun were bent round by gravity's distortion of space to be visible *next* to the sun. Einstein died before this was confirmed. The experiment has also been carried out with light from distant galaxies being bent round superclusters of other galaxies.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is Science?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: Gotta say it; I don't claim to be a scientist or even all that current, but I sure can tell that Hugo's grasp of science is missing at least one can of the six pack. Why don't you add what you think is missing instead of just chucking more insults around. It's like Sal is explaining Einstein. Ugh. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anatol_zinc anatol_zinc@ wrote: What is Science? Good question, how about: A quest to explain the universe independent of our beliefs/opinions of what it might be? Or simpler: The search for what *is* rather than what we want it to be? Ok, let's see what I can offer from my 2cents physics PhD about the following quote: Hawkins ~ There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, and science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win because it works. Is above assumption the whole truth and nothing but the truth? No, it is not! Hawkins is taking a very narrow view and polarizing it by taking the worst of religion and the best of science. This makes me say that Hawkins, if the above quote is accurate, is much much less of a real scientist than Einstein was. It is true that as a young man Einstein felt that much in the bible was not possible, but as he got older he became more tolerant toward religious views, and overall he had his own cosmic religion and did not shy away from using the word God to mean the supreme unknown intelligence of the universe. Like most physicists (indeed humans in general) Einstein would be fascinated by concepts of god but that doesn't mean he believed it and even if he did it wouldn't mean such a thing was any more or less likely. There are plenty of religious scientists as science is simply a tool for working things out, some of these are religious by upbringing and simply ignore the contradictions between faith and discovery, like the school science teacher on a recent TV doc who believed the world was only 4000 years old but knew from experiment (and taught as much to pupils) that it is in fact billions of years older. He couldn't explain his personal disconnect between the two positions but was convinced he was right about the biblical age(I consider him functionally insane). Of the others I don't know, you'd have to ask them but I'm sure they'd agree that a belief in god can't be acquired scientifically. The knowledge uncovered by science is what is important here, a scientist believing in god doesn't make god more likely, the only thing that would do that is if god turned out to be a better explanation than any of the alternatives. Maharishi said, don't remember his words exactly, that the word God is the most [exalted] of all the words and that not believing in God is simply due to a weak mind. Rather self-serving don't you think? I know that Maharishi is right about this from my years of studying engineering, math, physics( PhD ) and giving up on God; until I met Maharishi and his lecture atheists shaking hands with God ; thank you Maharishi. But, before having all sort of discussions about Hawkins etc, shouldn't we first ask the question whether the initial assumption is valid and true? Even if it may be partially valid, is it not necessary to look at the whole picture, as wide a scope as possible, if one is interested in the whole truth and nothing but the truth? So, how about asking what is science? We could define science initially as : Observation = recording observation = analysis = making an initial assumption and giving it a fancy name hypothesis = further observation to confirm assumption = repeated confirmations elevate the assumption into a theory = using theory to make predictions and/or technological applications = often newer better theories replace older narrower theories = sometimes older theories have to be discarded as bogus, as mistakes due to wrong assumptions; on the other hand some old theories continue to be practical in the limited environment where they work very well like Newtonian Mechanics However, observation and reason in the above steps are only part of the story. We need to ask where do the hypothetical assumptions come from? Einstein said that his [amazing] insights came not from his rational mind of observation and reason, but from intuition. And besides that Einstein had a scholarly friend who was into eastern philosophy. Hm, perhaps the idea for Einstein's Unified Field Theory came from the Vedic view of Brahman
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stephen Hawking on Religion
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: Life may be astoundingly abundant out there. Hawking is refusing to see that life is a gimme -- built into the subtle laws of physics -- and if this is so, then life isn't so damned insignificant as he's framing it. He'd argue that even if life is automatic, we're in but one universe where that is true -- a so-called Goldilocks universe that is just right for life, but that there's an infinity of universes that might have no life possible. I'd say that decades in a cripple's chair is tilting his views about God's ability to dance. Gosh, what a hideous thing to say. And all because Hawking doesn't share your views, but do you really think he hasn't considered alternatives. Your statement is an insult based on ifs you'd *like* to be true. I also see why science is going to win. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, and science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win because it works. When asked by ABC News' Diane Sawyer about the biggest mystery he'd like solved, he said, 'I want to know why the universe exists, why there is something greater than nothing.'... 'What could define God [is thinking of God] as the embodiment of the laws of nature. However, this is not what most people would think of that God,' Hawking told Sawyer. 'They made a human-like being with whom one can have a personal relationship. When you look at the vast size of the universe and how insignificant an accidental human life is in it, that seems most impossible.'... http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Technology/stephen-hawking-religion-science-win/story?id=10830164 I love his advice to his children...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Stephen Hawking on Religion
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Life may be astoundingly abundant out there. Hawking is refusing to see that life is a gimme -- built into the subtle laws of physics -- and if this is so, then life isn't so damned insignificant as he's framing it. He'd argue that even if life is automatic, we're in but one universe where that is true -- a so-called Goldilocks universe that is just right for life, but that there's an infinity of universes that might have no life possible. I'd say that decades in a cripple's chair is tilting his views about God's ability to dance. Edg We should remember that Hawking has a history of changing his views on a dime. Who knows what he would say tomorrow when he gets up either on the right or left side of his bed. Hawking doesn't change views on a dime, he's a scientist. He proposes explanations and they stand for as long as the evidence supports them. New evidence, new theories needed. Perhaps you doubt his credentials because he is always quick to admit when he's in error. No absolutes there. Big difference between all that and religions which can't change their POV without ceasing to be defined by the revelations that started them in the first place. Not without a lot of side-stepping and special pleading anyway. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, and science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win because it works. When asked by ABC News' Diane Sawyer about the biggest mystery he'd like solved, he said, 'I want to know why the universe exists, why there is something greater than nothing.'... 'What could define God [is thinking of God] as the embodiment of the laws of nature. However, this is not what most people would think of that God,' Hawking told Sawyer. 'They made a human-like being with whom one can have a personal relationship. When you look at the vast size of the universe and how insignificant an accidental human life is in it, that seems most impossible.'... http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Technology/stephen-hawking-religion-science-win/story?id=10830164 I love his advice to his children...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Joran Van der Sloot Jyotish
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip And now you're putting words in my mouth, even though I've made it clear on any number of occasions--including to you--that I'm highly dubious of astrology in general. So why keep defending it? As I've already pointed out, you can't productively critique something if you don't understand how it's said to work. I haven't been defending it, I've been trying to explain it to you. But it's clear you don't want to do the mental work necessary to get clear on it; you'd rather just toss off your own harebrained straw-man criticisms. Oh right, I don't agree with you that it works in *any* noticeable way so *I* must have created a straw-man to argue against. This line of debate sounds familiar, you can't prove it so it's *me* that's wrong, I'm just too stupid to understand you. Duh. And there's me who actually learned how to draw up horoscopes MANUALLY, thus realising the amazing truth behind the maths. It's bollocks. You wont find a jyotishee to admit that because they probably all use computers and who knows, maybe they still think the sun goes round the earth. Just a straw-man of course, the fact it makes no physical sense is irrelevant to how well it works* Basta. Same to you I'm sure. * Just in case you don't get that sarcasm, I am waiting really patiently for some evidence, you'd think it'd be forthcoming and unarguable after all these years but I've not seen it. I've looked too, and seen jyotishees myself and met countless believers, all to no avail. Nothing beyond wishful thinking, projection and selective editing. Funny eh? And also rather suspicious, still maybe the the practise that seems not to work actually does but untraceably, maybe that's what I don't understand eh? Call me fussy but I like things to be demonstrable in a way that discounts any alternative explanations, especially woo-woo or self-delusion. That's just me, moon in sagittarius.
