[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: [...] I don't know whether you'd be capable of better work if you took more time with what you write, but your slapdash way of recording and then posting your ideas doesn't reflect well on you either as a thinker or as a writer. It also reveals your contempt for your audience that you throw together posts with so little thought. Ironically, it was YOU who first suggested to Unc (after he posted his Clint Eastwood in holy socks story) that he should consider a career in professional writing Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: I'm thinking pedestrian is an adequate summary of his multiple musings posing as insight. Not bad as a one-word description, but there's really more to it than that. Just for one thing, a pedestrian writer's work isn't necessarily devoid of self- knowledge, nor is such a writer necessarily careless about logic, or about truthfulness, for that matter. Perhaps you have a better one but you can save it for a sunny day. Why waste a good post describing the waifing scent of garbage? Well, 'cause I'm challenging him to do *better*. You know, it occurs to me that perhaps his problem is that he's been stuck for so long making his living writing software documentation--which he *has* to take time and care with, or he'd be fired--that when he writes for his own pleasure, he can't bear to discipline himself to impose the same constraints on his output. I guess that's understandable, if so, but it's a shame. Maybe one way to go would be for him to be selective about what he ends up posting. Write all the unconstrained garbage he wants, but not post it; then pick out a few pieces every week that have some potential and spend a bit of time and effort revising them until they're as good as he can possibly make them, and only then post them. Now that I think about it, I wonder whether his compulsion to write putdowns here is really a matter of displaced anger at having to write nothing but technical stuff at work. Maybe MMY/TM/TMers are just convenient targets on which to let out his frustration at not having the kind of writing career he always dreamed of. I mean, when he first announced years ago that he was moving to Paris, it was supposedly to work on a novel he said he was writing about the Cathars. But we haven't heard anything about that in quite some time. Maybe he should be urged to go back to the novel instead of wasting his time inflicting rubbish on FFL. Maybe raising his sights would unleash some real creativity. Or maybe not... --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: I write for a living. I am a fast enough typist so that there is almost no lag between what I think and it appear- ing onscreen as text. So I do it for fun. It's a way of concretizing the abstract ideas that flit through my mind, to see whether they have any lasting meaning for me other than as Just Another Flit-Thought. Trouble is, the ideas that flit through your mind and make it into your posts here are generally of pretty low quality. They're very often shallow, unfocused, and lacking in logic, insight, and above all, self- knowledge.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: [...] I don't know whether you'd be capable of better work if you took more time with what you write, but your slapdash way of recording and then posting your ideas doesn't reflect well on you either as a thinker or as a writer. It also reveals your contempt for your audience that you throw together posts with so little thought. Ironically, it was YOU who first suggested to Unc (after he posted his Clint Eastwood in holy socks story) that he should consider a career in professional writing No, Lawson, it was not. I told you it wasn't the first time you said this back in April. See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/274728
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 30, 2011, at 3:38 AM, sparaig wrote: Ironically, it was YOU who first suggested to Unc (after he posted his Clint Eastwood in holy socks story) that he should consider a career in professional writing Well, if he ever needs a editor... :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: I'm thinking pedestrian is an adequate summary of his multiple musings posing as insight. Not bad as a one-word description, but there's really more to it than that. Just for one thing, a pedestrian writer's work isn't necessarily devoid of self- knowledge, nor is such a writer necessarily careless about logic, or about truthfulness, for that matter. Perhaps you have a better one but you can save it for a sunny day. Why waste a good post describing the waifing scent of garbage? Well, 'cause I'm challenging him to do *better*. You know, it occurs to me that perhaps his problem is that he's been stuck for so long making his living writing software documentation--which he *has* to take time and care with, or he'd be fired--that when he writes for his own pleasure, he can't bear to discipline himself to impose the same constraints on his output. I guess that's understandable, if so, but it's a shame. Maybe one way to go would be for him to be selective about what he ends up posting. Write all the unconstrained garbage he wants, but not post it; then pick out a few pieces every week that have some potential and spend a bit of time and effort revising them until they're as good as he can possibly make them, and only then post them. Now that I think about it, I wonder whether his compulsion to write putdowns here is really a matter of displaced anger at having to write nothing but technical stuff at work. Maybe MMY/TM/TMers are just convenient targets on which to let out his frustration at not having the kind of writing career he always dreamed of. I mean, when he first announced years ago that he was moving to Paris, it was supposedly to work on a novel he said he was writing about the Cathars. But we haven't heard anything about that in quite some time. Maybe he should be urged to go back to the novel instead of wasting his time inflicting rubbish on FFL. Maybe raising his sights would unleash some real creativity. Or maybe not... Spending hours every day on FFL denocing everything regarding Maharishi, how could he possible have time for anything else ? Also the fellow is getting oldish; spending years and years on negativity there could be very little power left for pursuing anything creative now.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Aside from a few sociopaths and/or trolls, I suspect that you can make the claim that everyone who bothers to post on the internet has some stake in what they are talking about. True. Otherwise why take the time to post it. I am going to disagree with both sparaig and tartbrain here...respectfully...by pointing out that their argument may be based on the writer's feelings about the writing process. I write for a living. I am a fast enough typist so that there is almost no lag between what I think and it appear- ing onscreen as text. So I do it for fun. It's a way of concretizing the abstract ideas that flit through my mind, to see whether they have any lasting meaning for me other than as Just Another Flit-Thought. Trouble is, the ideas that flit through your mind and make it into your posts here are generally of pretty low quality. They're very often shallow, unfocused, and lacking in logic, insight, and above all, self- knowledge. The one you made today about equality is a good example. Not only did it make little sense because you didn't think through the different meanings of equality in different contexts, it showed your typical inability to recognize that you were demonstrating the same behavior you were criticizing. I don't know whether you'd be capable of better work if you took more time with what you write, but your slapdash way of recording and then posting your ideas doesn't reflect well on you either as a thinker or as a writer. It also reveals your contempt for your audience that you throw together posts with so little thought. I write for fun. As Curtis has explained eloquently on this forum, I also write to figure things out, for myself. And then, having figured them out, I move on, and possibly figure them out a different way tomorrow, and yet another way the next day. I have no lingering attachment to any of them. This doesn't ring true at all, because you tend to repeat the same ideas over and over again. And your presentation doesn't improve with repetition; it just changes its clothes. I suspect Curtis takes a lot more time and care with most of his posts, not because he isn't a fast typist but because he thinks that if something is worth saying at all, it's worth saying well. And I seriously doubt he has any less fun than you do. In fact, I'll bet he has *more* fun producing a piece of writing that he can take satisfaction in because it expresses interesting ideas clearly and coherently. I honestly believe that the people who make the claim that one cannot write an idea on the Internet without having some investment in it, or in wanting to convert others to the validity or supremacy of that idea are stating their *own* limitations, not mine. Sometimes I really write just for the fuck of it, and for the fun of it. Maybe those are *your* limitations. Seems to me that, as a professional writer, you ought at least to have enough investment in what you write to do your best with it. Even if you were to change your mind tomorrow about a particular idea, you ought to try to express it as well as you can *today*. I think you're afraid to do that. You aren't willing to take that risk because you're afraid that your best really isn't that good. And you may be right.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
I'm thinking pedestrian is an adequate summary of his multiple musings posing as insight. Perhaps you have a better one but you can save it for a sunny day. Why waste a good post describing the waifing scent of garbage? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: I write for a living. I am a fast enough typist so that there is almost no lag between what I think and it appear- ing onscreen as text. So I do it for fun. It's a way of concretizing the abstract ideas that flit through my mind, to see whether they have any lasting meaning for me other than as Just Another Flit-Thought. Trouble is, the ideas that flit through your mind and make it into your posts here are generally of pretty low quality. They're very often shallow, unfocused, and lacking in logic, insight, and above all, self- knowledge.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Excellent analysis and right on spot as usual, Turq is an excellent writer but it's such a pity because all we see in his posts are either bullying, victim-hood or various other projections of his emotional pain involved with the Rama Cult. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Aside from a few sociopaths and/or trolls, I suspect that you can make the claim that everyone who bothers to post on the internet has some stake in what they are talking about. True. Otherwise why take the time to post it. I am going to disagree with both sparaig and tartbrain here...respectfully...by pointing out that their argument may be based on the writer's feelings about the writing process. I write for a living. I am a fast enough typist so that there is almost no lag between what I think and it appear- ing onscreen as text. So I do it for fun. It's a way of concretizing the abstract ideas that flit through my mind, to see whether they have any lasting meaning for me other than as Just Another Flit-Thought. Trouble is, the ideas that flit through your mind and make it into your posts here are generally of pretty low quality. They're very often shallow, unfocused, and lacking in logic, insight, and above all, self- knowledge. The one you made today about equality is a good example. Not only did it make little sense because you didn't think through the different meanings of equality in different contexts, it showed your typical inability to recognize that you were demonstrating the same behavior you were criticizing. I don't know whether you'd be capable of better work if you took more time with what you write, but your slapdash way of recording and then posting your ideas doesn't reflect well on you either as a thinker or as a writer. It also reveals your contempt for your audience that you throw together posts with so little thought.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Could be. I merely think of him as a mean jerk, intent on casting doubt on others' faith and experiences due to the paucity of his own. What a sad little bozo. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: Jim, yes - very interesting patterns emerge. Barry indeed feels victimized, threatened and obsessed with cults. There is a strange hold that cult leaders still have on him, clearly Rama killed himself but Barry continues to believe in this Negative Occult Energy B.S. that Rama taught. And then Barry continuously harasses, abuses and bullies through his writing (which clearly is one of his strengths). So the victim now has turned into a bully. And it has come a full circle, like you say karma is such a bitch. I have really bullied him ever since he welcomed me on this list :-). He can't believe someone like me can claim to have an awakening and still be a better bully than him, he's tried everything to avoid me but he apparently can't..LOL.since he views the world through the lenses of Rama. Everyone either looks like Rama, the bully or they look like Barry, the victim. In fact I feel incredibly sad for this man, but at the same time I'm forced to respond to the continuous lies and deception he man engages in, because I clearly have nothing better to do with some of my time everyday:-). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Ravi, Bozotronic Barry always brings up this sci-fi BS whenever his fragile ego feels put upon. Poor baby.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: Turquoiseb: The reality of FFL is that since the beginning of this posting week, five posters (Judy, Jim, Willytex, Nabby, and Ravi) have made 62 posts either insulting me, trying to refute something I said, or otherwise putting me down... In 1989, Rama justified to the disciples his rising tuition. I nearly killed myself by accepting your Negative Occult Energy, he said, and now you are going to have to pay for it... Thanks for this, this really confirms my suspicion that Turq is still under Rama's spell, he really needs true love and compassion of a true Yogi. Right now he is just crying in pain and his act of the TM Cult Crusader is not fooling anyone - a Cultish Wolf in a Skeptic Sheep's garb. His comments below make total sense. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Ravi, I shall break form and reply to this one, because it gives me the opportunity to rap about the occult theory behind why I ignore your silly ass. It's because of something I learned from a couple of spiritual teachers. When someone appears to be obses- sing on you, on an occult level it's because they're trying to suck your energy, in the form of attention.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@ wrote: Snip You, on the other hand, have this buring desire to make him the devil, even though you say you have transcended your TM practice. Don't you have anything better to do with your time? I believe Vaj's contributions here are more sincere than that. If you accept the premise that there really IS a tradition of knowledge of yoga, and if you believe that Maharishi has corrupted it, then it all makes sense why Vaj would care. It comes from taking the knowledge very seriously. A tradition? Please. MMY always portrayed his technique as a revival of something lost. For those who don't believe anything was lost, that is automatically a distortion. But, then you look at the countless arguments and disagreements about what meditation really is, and you realize that it is far more complicated than lost vs found or right vs wrong. MMY may have believed this simplistic world-view whole-heartedly, or he may have been content to simplify things for his students. My own take is that he was well aware that there are different beliefs and practices and that his specific focus was on those that are claimed to be dhyan. Anything he says about meditation should be taken in the light of this implicit assumption: all meditation techniques originate in dhyan practices, and dhyan has gotten distorted over the years. When we were all earnest TM teachers in the centers, if we had heard some guy was skipping the puja and selling TM mantras we would be incensed to our bones. We would be motivated to expose the person as a fraud and we would consider it our duty for the sake of the innocent public who was getting ripped off according to our POV. And? That is what TM teachers were taught. I assume that MMY believed there was something special about the puja in some sense or he wouldn't have insisted on it. Certainly he could have sold far more mantras had he skipped it himself. I don't share a confidence in whatever traditions of yoga Vaj is into, but I at least give him credit for being really into it and experiencing something that was compelling enough for him to come to the conclusions he has about the problems with Maharishi as a teacher and the limitations of TM as a practice. Since MMY set himself up as the great reformer, it is inevitable that all the non-reformed people would automatically denounce him as a fraud, etc. I don't fault Vaj for representing what he believes to be true as true, but I occasionally get put off by what I see as his inability to recognize his own issues: e.g., that he never got TM, at least in my opinion. I started thinking of posting something with the whole rap about the Ayur vedic doctor who Vaj said was unhappy with Maharishi and Richard said was still very much into him. Having had a front row seat for the contentious relationship between Maharishi and Triguna I find both POVs to be credible and non contradictory. Maharishi was a hard-ball guy but he had resources that these guys wanted. So depending on what day you spoke to Triguna you might get the perspective that he was furious that his services were being charged for in DC in contradiction to the Charaka Samhita. (Or maybe he was pissed because he didn't get a cut but only sold the medicines.) Or you might get a whole flowery speech about what a great guy Maharishi was and how wonderful it was that he was bringing Ayur Veda to the world. Same thing with Dr. Lad who was salty about Maharishi using his materials without recognition after he refused to participate with Maharishi's proprietary program. And then throw in a whole heap of Indian's tendency to piss and moan like drama queens about everything. So I don't get the impression that Richard is some one-dimentional TB, he seems sincere and has added a lot to this discussion from his experience. And I feel the same way about Vaj. Because you both care about these topics, it makes the discussions more interesting for me. Aside from a few sociopaths and/or trolls, I suspect that you can make the claim that everyone who bothers to post on the internet has some stake in what they are talking about. Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Relax-all depend on the knowledge of passages (! [:D] )Great, you cannot take these posting seriously, too. Don't you?Sub sole nihil novi est - There's nothing new under the sun Was it not your beloved I. K. Taimni (YS 3.39) who wrote unintentionally ...uhh you know : The mind can enter another's body on relaxation of the cause of bondage and from knowledge of passages..Many people do not realize that the exercise of the Yogic powers is based upon detailed and precise knowledge of the physical and superphysical vehicles and rigorous training is necessary in the application of this knowledge for particular purposes.Yoga is a Science and its requirements are as exacting( [:-/] p 305) as those of physical Science. http://tinyurl.com/4x8oqtn : The 19 best unintentionally sexual church signs. (For your eyes only:siis kyseessäon ilmeisesti tieto niistä kanavista, joita pitkin tietoisuus siirtyy kehoon vaikkapa lapsen syntyessä??) Mind trickBody swap research to understand how the human brain constructs a sense of physical self:Dr Henrik Ehrsson at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden http://tinyurl.com/6ywc368 http://tinyurl.com/6mdlho --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@... wrote: So, you seem to think that Shankara was -- according to Shankara-dig-vijaya by Maadhava-VidyaaraNya -- molesting women after having performed the yogic siddhi 'cittasya para-shariiraavesha' into the dead body of King Amaruka?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@... wrote: Aside from a few sociopaths and/or trolls, I suspect that you can make the claim that everyone who bothers to post on the internet has some stake in what they are talking about. Lawson True. Otherwise why take the time to post it. However stake in this context is not limited to vested intellectual or emotional interest. One may want to explore an idea,not attached to where it leads, happy with any insight or conclusion that appears stronger, more insightful than from where the journey began. Their stake is in understanding things better. The other bookend are posters who are strongly, clinically addicted to their ideas, conclusions and views. Such posters may even have their self-identity wrapped up in these ideas and conclusions. Such have a HUGE stake in their posts because diminishment of their posts translates directly into diminisment of their souls, self-identities or at least addictive pleasure sources and drug source. Most posts fall somewhere in between.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Aside from a few sociopaths and/or trolls, I suspect that you can make the claim that everyone who bothers to post on the internet has some stake in what they are talking about. True. Otherwise why take the time to post it. I am going to disagree with both sparaig and tartbrain here...respectfully...by pointing out that their argument may be based on the writer's feelings about the writing process. I write for a living. I am a fast enough typist so that there is almost no lag between what I think and it appear- ing onscreen as text. So I do it for fun. It's a way of concretizing the abstract ideas that flit through my mind, to see whether they have any lasting meaning for me other than as Just Another Flit-Thought. I write for fun. As Curtis has explained eloquently on this forum, I also write to figure things out, for myself. And then, having figured them out, I move on, and possibly figure them out a different way tomorrow, and yet another way the next day. I have no lingering attachment to any of them. I honestly believe that the people who make the claim that one cannot write an idea on the Internet without having some investment in it, or in wanting to convert others to the validity or supremacy of that idea are stating their *own* limitations, not mine. Sometimes I really write just for the fuck of it, and for the fun of it. If you can't, that's your problem, not mine. The rest of tart's post I agree with wholeheartedly, and have no comments on because he stated it eloquently and succinctly. However stake in this context is not limited to vested intellectual or emotional interest. One may want to explore an idea,not attached to where it leads, happy with any insight or conclusion that appears stronger, more insightful than from where the journey began. Their stake is in understanding things better. The other bookend are posters who are strongly, clinically addicted to their ideas, conclusions and views. Such posters may even have their self-identity wrapped up in these ideas and conclusions. Such have a HUGE stake in their posts because diminishment of their posts translates directly into diminisment of their souls, self-identities or at least addictive pleasure sources and drug source. Most posts fall somewhere in between.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 28, 2011, at 9:39 AM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@ wrote: Snip You, on the other hand, have this buring desire to make him the devil, even though you say you have transcended your TM practice. Don't you have anything better to do with your time? I believe Vaj's contributions here are more sincere than that. If you accept the premise that there really IS a tradition of knowledge of yoga, and if you believe that Maharishi has corrupted it, then it all makes sense why Vaj would care. It comes from taking the knowledge very seriously. A tradition? Please. TM literature and research claims that it comes from an imagined Vedic tradition, when in fact, none of the mantras used in TM occur in Rig Veda. In fact the mantras are actually tantric. There are people who think and believe great spiritual traditions come from the Knights Templar, the Rosicrucians or the Bavarian Illuminati. They've founded organizations which claim to initiate folks into these alleged mysteries. But the fact they've created such organizations and have had great financial success at getting people to seek initiation in them, does not make such imaginary orgs legit. MMY always portrayed his technique as a revival of something lost. Of course he did. He loved to self-promote and advertise his version as something special - and himself as someone special; read: Great Rishi rediscovers mantric cogitation, news at 11. For those who don't believe anything was lost, that is automatically a distortion. But, then you look at the countless arguments and disagreements about what meditation really is, and you realize that it is far more complicated than lost vs found or right vs wrong. Meditation, in a given context (let's say mantra meditation for this context) is very precisely defined. The fact is most people who tend to throw out opinions on this (or many other lists) have little idea what mantra meditation, it's breadth or it's scope actually is. TM teachers actually have little idea what mantra meditation is or it's basis and breadth and internal philosophy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 28, 2011, at 9:39 AM, sparaig wrote: MMY always portrayed his technique as a revival of something lost. Of course he did. He loved to self-promote and advertise his version as something special - and himself as someone special; read: Great Rishi rediscovers mantric cogitation, news at 11. NOT wanting to get sucked into Yet Another Bash Vaj Fest, I have to give credit where it's due. This is a great line. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Respectfully, not defensively, in the spirit of clarification, what you have said I blieve is precisely what I was getting at in my first book end. Th first bookend stake is a stake of better understanding and FUN (Jeez I would hope its apparent that a lot of my posts are whimsical and funning -- the stake being greater amusement and fun (hopefully not at the expense of others.) Stake was spraig's term, and i was trying to find common ground -- and thus I defined stake to be comprehensive of my take on posting motivations. And of course, like all, I can venture towards the second book end. More so perhaps in my posts of 6-8 years ago, while I was still in the midst of unwinding and healing the bentness from emerging from full commitment to an organization with cult like tendencies. i would hope we all can admit that we are Ideaholics at times, and can get addicted to our ideas and the pleasure centers they ring, the extra umph of self-identity and meaning in life they provide, the added glow in the soul they create. Just like alcohol and drugs increase dopamine and seritonin and give alcoholics (or causual drinkers) and pharma users -- addicted or casual -- a big rush too. The value is to see when that is happening and not indulge it as substantive -- let that mind state also pass. One may want to explore an idea,not attached to where it leads, happy with any insight or conclusion that appears stronger, more insightful than from where the journey began. Their stake is in understanding things better. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote: Aside from a few sociopaths and/or trolls, I suspect that you can make the claim that everyone who bothers to post on the internet has some stake in what they are talking about. True. Otherwise why take the time to post it. I am going to disagree with both sparaig and tartbrain here...respectfully...by pointing out that their argument may be based on the writer's feelings about the writing process. I write for a living. I am a fast enough typist so that there is almost no lag between what I think and it appear- ing onscreen as text. So I do it for fun. It's a way of concretizing the abstract ideas that flit through my mind, to see whether they have any lasting meaning for me other than as Just Another Flit-Thought. I write for fun. As Curtis has explained eloquently on this forum, I also write to figure things out, for myself. And then, having figured them out, I move on, and possibly figure them out a different way tomorrow, and yet another way the next day. I have no lingering attachment to any of them. I honestly believe that the people who make the claim that one cannot write an idea on the Internet without having some investment in it, or in wanting to convert others to the validity or supremacy of that idea are stating their *own* limitations, not mine. Sometimes I really write just for the fuck of it, and for the fun of it. If you can't, that's your problem, not mine. The rest of tart's post I agree with wholeheartedly, and have no comments on because he stated it eloquently and succinctly. However stake in this context is not limited to vested intellectual or emotional interest. One may want to explore an idea,not attached to where it leads, happy with any insight or conclusion that appears stronger, more insightful than from where the journey began. Their stake is in understanding things better. The other bookend are posters who are strongly, clinically addicted to their ideas, conclusions and views. Such posters may even have their self-identity wrapped up in these ideas and conclusions. Such have a HUGE stake in their posts because diminishment of their posts translates directly into diminisment of their souls, self-identities or at least addictive pleasure sources and drug source. Most posts fall somewhere in between.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip I believe Vaj's contributions here are more sincere than that. If you accept the premise that there really IS a tradition of knowledge of yoga, and if you believe that Maharishi has corrupted it, then it all makes sense why Vaj would care. It comes from taking the knowledge very seriously. Being sincere about one's own tradition is one thing; being intellectually honest in comparing it to another tradition is something else again. I think our perception of this has something to do with what motives we ascribe to him. Deliberate dishonesty requires the introduction of a dark motive, doesn't it? I'm not sure I have evidence for that but let's see if you do. But on the outset I accept your distinction as valuable if it applies. Two points: One, Vaj never addresses the question of whether MMY corrupted the tradition, or whether he *reformed* it after it had been corrupted by others. There's a good case to be made for the latter, but Vaj won't even acknowledge it, let alone debate it. I'm pretty sure we have heard his opinion on this. He believes that Maharishi corrupted it and that TMers are incorrect to believe that he reformed it. He may also believe that except for a few special people, the tradition itself had gone into some disrepair. He does seem to believe that there are people capable of passing on the correct information in the right way, and that he has met some of them. (Feel free to jump in at any time Vaj considering this is your head we are autopsying! Two, what does not make sense is why Vaj misrepresents, in very specific and documentable ways, the basic instructions for practicing TM when he claims to have been a TM teacher. It's not just a matter of not using TM lingo, it's misrepresentation of the mechanics. (Extensive documentation on request.) I believe you here in terms of your perspective, but since I have gotten in to this snare myself from time to time I see it differently. When you have been out of TM for a long time and have applied other points of view to the teaching, you come up with your own understanding that can be really different from the TM one. And it makes little sense to go back and parrot a POV you have long since rejected. Especially since he has studied systems with excruciating details of mental states, it seems likely that he would view our TM practice in a very different way. He might have his own take on all sorts of details of what we do. Crappy example but its what I can come up with now. Lets say that there was some kind of practice that actually WAS more effortless than TM. In comparison the practice of TM might seem contrived and having a quality of effort that was objectionable to a practitioner of this system. They might commit the ultimate blasphemous phrase that TM requires effort and their practice does not. If it really was their experience, then it would be true for them, but it would seem like he had no understanding of TM wouldn't it? I think some of this is going on in how Vaj describes TM, which in his mind, is a superficial version of the high octane one he is into. Neither of these smacks of intellectual honesty. How can a sincere comparison between teachings be made when one of them is consistently and willfully shortchanged? I sense his implied condescension concerning TM practice since he believes he is doing something much deeper and better. I am still not sure I can see motive for your intellectual honesty angle. He has said that he enjoyed the benefits of TM until he found something which he feels is better. So he acknowledges that TM does the stuff I enjoy from my practice. But then he claims that there are practices that lead you to sit in a state of no thought for days at a time. Personally I would rather sprinkle thumb tacks on my Cheerios and eat them than sit in any state for more than say an hour. But from his POV, if you accept the premise that this is valuable, then it is also really clear that TM doesn't deliver that. (Or hasn't to me, which suite me just fine.) So I'm not sure he is shortchanging it as much as he believes if comes up short. Again, it's like a devout Roman Catholic scholar putting down Martin Luther because his teachings didn't accord with those of the Vatican, rather than making a reasoned case for the Vatican's teachings being more authentic and for why Luther's were a corruption. That is a great example because I suspect there hasn't been a lot of the latter as much as the former in history. But it brings up an interesting point of how intellectual discourse is conducted here and my motive in pursuing this conversation. I have long believed that a front row seat on a detailed discussion on such details between you and Vaj as well as
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 28, 2011, at 9:39 AM, sparaig wrote: MMY always portrayed his technique as a revival of something lost. Of course he did. He loved to self-promote and advertise his version as something special - and himself as someone special; read: Great Rishi rediscovers mantric cogitation, news at 11. NOT wanting to get sucked into Yet Another Bash Vaj Fest, I have to give credit where it's due. This is a great line. :-) This is nothing new, all Gurus advertised their mantras, meditation techniques as special, they understand the greedy goal oriented nature of the human mind which projects itself and the pursuit of realization as special. Mature seekers slowly realize this, retards like Barry and Vaj never get it, since their first exposure to spirituality has been through cults and all spirituality looks like a form of mind control for them.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip I believe Vaj's contributions here are more sincere than that. If you accept the premise that there really IS a tradition of knowledge of yoga, and if you believe that Maharishi has corrupted it, then it all makes sense why Vaj would care. It comes from taking the knowledge very seriously. Being sincere about one's own tradition is one thing; being intellectually honest in comparing it to another tradition is something else again. I think our perception of this has something to do with what motives we ascribe to him. Deliberate dishonesty requires the introduction of a dark motive, doesn't it? I'm not sure I have evidence for that but let's see if you do. But on the outset I accept your distinction as valuable if it applies. Intellectual dishonesty is not necessarily always a deliberate attempt to deceive. It can be something one falls into without realizing it in an attempt to establish the validity of a strongly held point of view or belief, either because the case for its validity isn't really all that good, or simply because one is having trouble figuring out how to make that case with intellectual honesty, so one takes unwarranted shortcuts. That being said, as far as Vaj is concerned there is plenty of evidence that he has not always been *factually* honest, i.e., that he has engaged in deliberate deception. I don't know if you want to get into history to the extent necessary to justify that assertion. But I wouldn't rule out dark motives on his part. In some cases it may simply be a matter of ego-investment in being right rather than an intention to malign with malice aforethought. I'm not at all sure that's true of all cases, though. Anyway: Two points: One, Vaj never addresses the question of whether MMY corrupted the tradition, or whether he *reformed* it after it had been corrupted by others. There's a good case to be made for the latter, but Vaj won't even acknowledge it, let alone debate it. I'm pretty sure we have heard his opinion on this. He believes that Maharishi corrupted it and that TMers are incorrect to believe that he reformed it He won't acknowledge that there's a good case to be made for the reformed claim. He does acknowledge such a claim is made. So, yes, we know his opinion, but he won't engage in debate about it. snip Two, what does not make sense is why Vaj misrepresents, in very specific and documentable ways, the basic instructions for practicing TM when he claims to have been a TM teacher. It's not just a matter of not using TM lingo, it's misrepresentation of the mechanics. (Extensive documentation on request.) I believe you here in terms of your perspective, but since I have gotten in to this snare myself from time to time I see it differently. When you have been out of TM for a long time and have applied other points of view to the teaching, you come up with your own understanding that can be really different from the TM one. The question is whether that understanding represents TM accurately. Vaj says, 'Waiting for the mantra' is a natural and important part of TM. But wait for the mantra is *directly contrary* to the instructions for TM. And it makes little sense to go back and parrot a POV you have long since rejected. Especially since he has studied systems with excruciating details of mental states, it seems likely that he would view our TM practice in a very different way. He might have his own take on all sorts of details of what we do. I understand your point. But I'd simply ask you, if TM meditators waited for the mantra, would they still be practicing TM as taught by MMY? (I'm not asking whether that couldn't be a valid way to meditate but whether they'd be practicing TM as you learned to teach it; the issue is that Vaj maintains this is how TM is to be practiced.) Crappy example but its what I can come up with now. Lets say that there was some kind of practice that actually WAS more effortless than TM. In comparison the practice of TM might seem contrived and having a quality of effort that was objectionable to a practitioner of this system. They might commit the ultimate blasphemous phrase that TM requires effort and their practice does not. If it really was their experience, then it would be true for them, but it would seem like he had no understanding of TM wouldn't it? I think some of this is going on in how Vaj describes TM, which in his mind, is a superficial version of the high octane one he is into. I'll grant the point for the sake of argument (the issue of effort is difficult to discuss, and I'm not convinced from what he's said that Vaj really gets the sense in which TM is effortless), but I
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
People? You mean actual Vedic pandits like SSRS just imagine it? Gosh, and all this time he was just giving me baby food for Anglos. Webinars don't count. Who were your gurus? Where did you learn TM? What TM courses were you ever on? Forget a few public abhishekas. What tantric training do you proclaim? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: TM literature and research claims that it comes from an imagined Vedic tradition, when in fact, none of the mantras used in TM occur in Rig Veda. In fact the mantras are actually tantric. There are people who think and believe great spiritual traditions come from the Knights Templar, the Rosicrucians or the Bavarian Illuminati. They've founded organizations which claim to initiate folks into these alleged mysteries. But the fact they've created such organizations and have had great financial success at getting people to seek initiation in them, does not make such imaginary orgs legit. MMY always portrayed his technique as a revival of something lost. Of course he did. He loved to self-promote and advertise his version as something special - and himself as someone special; read: Great Rishi rediscovers mantric cogitation, news at 11. For those who don't believe anything was lost, that is automatically a distortion. But, then you look at the countless arguments and disagreements about what meditation really is, and you realize that it is far more complicated than lost vs found or right vs wrong. Meditation, in a given context (let's say mantra meditation for this context) is very precisely defined. The fact is most people who tend to throw out opinions on this (or many other lists) have little idea what mantra meditation, it's breadth or it's scope actually is. TM teachers actually have little idea what mantra meditation is or it's basis and breadth and internal philosophy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
One Word: TIBET. Case closed. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 28, 2011, at 9:39 AM, sparaig wrote: MMY always portrayed his technique as a revival of something lost. Of course he did. He loved to self-promote and advertise his version as something special - and himself as someone special; read: Great Rishi rediscovers mantric cogitation, news at 11. NOT wanting to get sucked into Yet Another Bash Vaj Fest, I have to give credit where it's due. This is a great line. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: And that goes the same for you Judy. You have been unfairly cast as a TB who can't think thoughtfully about Maharishi's system without defensively protecting it. So it is equally unhelpful in my Kumbaya vision for Vaj to see you as a person not capable of understanding and appreciating what his POV is. I would gladly read an exchange entered into with mutual respect and the old agree to disagree vibe that characterizes some of the most interesting exchanges on FFL. This is what I've suspected all along. Curtis is a plant, put in close proximity to the seat of US power to put out vibes of tolerance and balance. We see some of it here, but it's no mistake where he's practicing his craft. (-:
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 28, 2011, at 11:44 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: I'm pretty sure we have heard his opinion on this. He believes that Maharishi corrupted it and that TMers are incorrect to believe that he reformed it. He may also believe that except for a few special people, the tradition itself had gone into some disrepair. He does seem to believe that there are people capable of passing on the correct information in the right way, and that he has met some of them. (Feel free to jump in at any time Vaj considering this is your head we are autopsying! I just happened to read this. Understand I don't read all of the posts here, I read who I want, as I have time or interest. Just because I do not respond to an email does not mean I'm avoiding, or hiding or some other imagined reason. I have a life. Yes, I already have very clearly talked about this before. In mostly non-commercial constructs, mantra shastra is alive and well. TM is not one of them. But that is an interesting hodge-podge and may suit some. Some prefer McDonalds drive-thrus and others prefer gourmet meals. Two, what does not make sense is why Vaj misrepresents, in very specific and documentable ways, the basic instructions for practicing TM when he claims to have been a TM teacher. It's not just a matter of not using TM lingo, it's misrepresentation of the mechanics. (Extensive documentation on request.) I believe you here in terms of your perspective, but since I have gotten in to this snare myself from time to time I see it differently. When you have been out of TM for a long time and have applied other points of view to the teaching, you come up with your own understanding that can be really different from the TM one. And it makes little sense to go back and parrot a POV you have long since rejected. Especially since he has studied systems with excruciating details of mental states, it seems likely that he would view our TM practice in a very different way. He might have his own take on all sorts of details of what we do. It's not fair to call it excruciatingly detailed when it's really rather simple. You can parse it as complex or you can parse it simply. Crappy example but its what I can come up with now. Lets say that there was some kind of practice that actually WAS more effortless than TM. In comparison the practice of TM might seem contrived and having a quality of effort that was objectionable to a practitioner of this system. They might commit the ultimate blasphemous phrase that TM requires effort and their practice does not. If it really was their experience, then it would be true for them, but it would seem like he had no understanding of TM wouldn't it? I think some of this is going on in how Vaj describes TM, which in his mind, is a superficial version of the high octane one he is into. This whole reality of the over dogmatization and lack of understanding of effort and effortlessness in TM - and how it is understood in mantra meditation (and meditation in general) - is indeed one of the problems (insufficient knowledge and understanding) with TM indoctrination. It's actually not a subject up for debate or dissension, as the tradition of meditation TM comes from defines these distinctions quite plainly and clearly. Neither of these smacks of intellectual honesty. How can a sincere comparison between teachings be made when one of them is consistently and willfully shortchanged? I sense his implied condescension concerning TM practice since he believes he is doing something much deeper and better. I recognize a full mantra tradition and I recognize what TM is. One has had repeatable, replicated results for centuries, the other provides well known and well understood relaxation effects for about 50 years. One addresses the whole person, beyond just a mental continuum, the other addresses mentation and the relative disappearance of mentation. I am still not sure I can see motive for your intellectual honesty angle. And there is none. Judy is a chronic liar. She often throws red herrings and twists and misrepresents what people say. Why she's so chronically dishonest, while still imagining herself to be some savior of honesty is beyond me. That's a question for mental health professionals. He has said that he enjoyed the benefits of TM until he found something which he feels is better. So he acknowledges that TM does the stuff I enjoy from my practice. But then he claims that there are practices that lead you to sit in a state of no thought for days at a time. Personally I would rather sprinkle thumb tacks on my Cheerios and eat them than sit in any state for more than say an hour. But from his POV, if you accept the premise that this is valuable, then it is also really clear that TM doesn't deliver that. (Or hasn't to me, which suite me just fine.) So I'm not sure he is shortchanging it as much as he
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Curtis-- --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: snip And there is none. Judy is a chronic liar. She often throws red herrings and twists and misrepresents what people say. Why she's so chronically dishonest, while still imagining herself to be some savior of honesty is beyond me. --do you perceive me to be chronically dishonest?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 28, 2011, at 2:56 PM, emptybill wrote: People? You mean actual Vedic pandits like SSRS just imagine it? Never met him, so no I didn't mean SSRS (who long ago dropped Mahesh off of his website as one of his gurus). Smart move, I thought. Gosh, and all this time he was just giving me baby food for Anglos. Webinars don't count. Who were your gurus? Where did you learn TM? What TM courses were you ever on? Forget a few public abhishekas. What tantric training do you proclaim? I don't make public proclamations nor lists of initiations, as is popular with some. It's really none of your business. The real question is why are you so interested in me, rather than worrying about yourself?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Because he sees his infinite Self in you? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 28, 2011, at 2:56 PM, emptybill wrote: People? You mean actual Vedic pandits like SSRS just imagine it? Never met him, so no I didn't mean SSRS (who long ago dropped Mahesh off of his website as one of his gurus). Smart move, I thought. Gosh, and all this time he was just giving me baby food for Anglos. Webinars don't count. Who were your gurus? Where did you learn TM? What TM courses were you ever on? Forget a few public abhishekas. What tantric training do you proclaim? I don't make public proclamations nor lists of initiations, as is popular with some. It's really none of your business. The real question is why are you so interested in me, rather than worrying about yourself?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Who are you trying to kid? You have proclaimed all sorts esoterica here. Except your implied training and your sources. That means they lack credibility. Aren't you ashamed of putting all these people on? Students of gurus/lamas/mentors praise their teachers. You only praise those who don't know you, like Alan Wallace. Pony up. What are you trying to hide? Answer the obvious questions. You might finally have some credibility. Webinars don't count for anything. Where did you learn TM? What TM courses were you ever on? Who are your gurus? Do you really have any? Forget public McAbhisheka-s. What tantric training do you regularly practice? What Dzogchenpa has taken you into his mandala? What Dzogchenpa has given trekchö and/or tögal instructions directly to you in person? Where is your dzogchen protector? Afraid of one? They don't like duplicity in practitioners! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 28, 2011, at 2:56 PM, emptybill wrote: People? You mean actual Vedic pandits like SSRS just imagine it? Never met him, so no I didn't mean SSRS (who long ago dropped Mahesh off of his website as one of his gurus). Smart move, I thought. Gosh, and all this time he was just giving me baby food for Anglos. Webinars don't count. Who were your gurus? Where did you learn TM? What TM courses were you ever on? Forget a few public abhishekas. What tantric training do you proclaim? I don't make public proclamations nor lists of initiations, as is popular with some. It's really none of your business. The real question is why are you so interested in me, rather than worrying about yourself?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 28, 2011, at 6:07 PM, tartbrain wrote: Because he sees his infinite Self in you? LOL.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 28, 2011, at 7:10 PM, emptybill wrote: Who are you trying to kid? You have proclaimed all sorts esoterica here. Except your implied training and your sources. That means they lack credibility. Aren't you ashamed of putting all these people on? No, of course not, as I'm not. I do know this, your guru did not like it when another of his students did the kind of thing you are pulling, and he was expelled from the sangha. We made certain of that. Students of gurus/lamas/mentors praise their teachers. You only praise those who don't know you, like Alan Wallace. I don't cast pearls where they're not appreciated, nor do I advertise for gurus. Sorry, no exceptions. Pony up. What are you trying to hide? Answer the obvious questions. You might finally have some credibility. Webinars don't count for anything. Where did you learn TM? What TM courses were you ever on? Who are your gurus? Do you really have any? Forget public McAbhisheka-s. What tantric training do you regularly practice? I've been advised to concentrate on the dark retreat instructions I've received over the last 30 years, along with various upadesha practices, and the abhyantaravarga teachings. Not that it's really any of your business. Buh bye.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
What duplicity you use. What a laughable response. Khachab stays at my house, idiot. I have his personal cell #. If I have a question or something to say I call him directly. Khachab wouldn't give you a moment of consideration, especially to a We made certain of that claim. What a fake you are. An utter bullshitter. Samaya means To give words of honor like a knight to his liege lord. You have no honor. I hope you complain, you fool. Khachab might inquire further. Maybe that way we could find out the truth about you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 28, 2011, at 7:10 PM, emptybill wrote: Who are you trying to kid? You have proclaimed all sorts esoterica here. Except your implied training and your sources. That means they lack credibility. Aren't you ashamed of putting all these people on? No, of course not, as I'm not. I do know this, your guru did not like it when another of his students did the kind of thing you are pulling, and he was expelled from the sangha. We made certain of that. Students of gurus/lamas/mentors praise their teachers. You only praise those who don't know you, like Alan Wallace. I don't cast pearls where they're not appreciated, nor do I advertise for gurus. Sorry, no exceptions. Pony up. What are you trying to hide? Answer the obvious questions. You might finally have some credibility. Webinars don't count for anything. Where did you learn TM? What TM courses were you ever on? Who are your gurus? Do you really have any? Forget public McAbhisheka-s. What tantric training do you regularly practice? I've been advised to concentrate on the dark retreat instructions I've received over the last 30 years, along with various upadesha practices, and the abhyantaravarga teachings. Not that it's really any of your business. Buh bye.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: I've been advised to concentrate on the dark retreat instructions I've received over the last 30 years, along with various upadesha practices, and the abhyantaravarga teachings. Not that it's really any of your business. See Jim, whats not to love. I have NO idea what the dark retreat instructions, the upadesha practices (well, I have an inkling what they are) and the abhyantaravarga teachings. (I would consider it a great boon if I could just pronounce that properly.) I am sure researching would be of value to me. I will probably do it. Maybe the methods are not my cup of tea. Still its GREAT IMO that such diversity of methods exist and are flourishing. Vaj in that little way is preserving traditions. He is not proceletizing.In fact, he has always been very reluctant to share details of such teachings and how to attain them. (May be a pearls before swine thing, which I GET, and take no offense.) And maybe Vaj is blowing smoke up his ass (is that an advanced prana technique or simply a hippy commune thing) or ours. So what. I love MMY travel agenda analogy for TM teachers. You don't have to have been there to book a flight to India for someone. Considering all possibilities, not a high one IMO, but maybe Vaj is blowing smoke. Still, by causing others to look into such methods, even if he has in no way mastered them - not relevant -- he provides a travel agent function. But then again, are methods necessary? (as in having to go to traditions and other teachers) A quirky questions I asked last night -- but a real one. My current methods are essentially self-conceived. Things that simply came to me. Jungle methods. They work for me. Home made. Much taster and nutritious than store bought stuff. So I am not super eager to find new methods. But I have interest -- if only from an art appreciation perspective.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Thanks for continuing to reveal this fool for who he is, emptybill. I venture that the last time Vaj transcended was at birth - lol. He knows as much about TM and Maharishi as he does his foolish masquerade of wrathful compassion. What a fake. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: What duplicity you use. What a laughable response. Khachab stays at my house, idiot. I have his personal cell #. If I have a question or something to say I call him directly. Khachab wouldn't give you a moment of consideration, especially to a We made certain of that claim. What a fake you are. An utter bullshitter. Samaya means To give words of honor like a knight to his liege lord. You have no honor. I hope you complain, you fool. Khachab might inquire further. Maybe that way we could find out the truth about you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 28, 2011, at 7:10 PM, emptybill wrote: Who are you trying to kid? You have proclaimed all sorts esoterica here. Except your implied training and your sources. That means they lack credibility. Aren't you ashamed of putting all these people on? No, of course not, as I'm not. I do know this, your guru did not like it when another of his students did the kind of thing you are pulling, and he was expelled from the sangha. We made certain of that. Students of gurus/lamas/mentors praise their teachers. You only praise those who don't know you, like Alan Wallace. I don't cast pearls where they're not appreciated, nor do I advertise for gurus. Sorry, no exceptions. Pony up. What are you trying to hide? Answer the obvious questions. You might finally have some credibility. Webinars don't count for anything. Where did you learn TM? What TM courses were you ever on? Who are your gurus? Do you really have any? Forget public McAbhisheka-s. What tantric training do you regularly practice? I've been advised to concentrate on the dark retreat instructions I've received over the last 30 years, along with various upadesha practices, and the abhyantaravarga teachings. Not that it's really any of your business. Buh bye.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
I have no issue with Vaj talking in his incoherent way about traditions he follows or meditations he does. If he even wants to worship the man on the moon that is his business. What I do object to is his attempt to castigate those on this forum simply because they find value in MMY's teaching and the practice of TM. He betrays himself as the arrogant idiot he is. I personally think that the dark retreats he refers to consist of no more than locking himself in the bathroom, turning off the lights, and hunkering down in a dry bathtub, hiding from his family.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: I've been advised to concentrate on the dark retreat instructions I've received over the last 30 years, along with various upadesha practices, and the abhyantaravarga teachings. Not that it's really any of your business. See Jim, whats not to love. I have NO idea what the dark retreat instructions, the upadesha practices (well, I have an inkling what they are) and the abhyantaravarga teachings. (I would consider it a great boon if I could just pronounce that properly.) I am sure researching would be of value to me. I will probably do it. Maybe the methods are not my cup of tea. Still its GREAT IMO that such diversity of methods exist and are flourishing. Vaj in that little way is preserving traditions. He is not proceletizing.In fact, he has always been very reluctant to share details of such teachings and how to attain them. (May be a pearls before swine thing, which I GET, and take no offense.) And maybe Vaj is blowing smoke up his ass (is that an advanced prana technique or simply a hippy commune thing) or ours. So what. I love MMY travel agenda analogy for TM teachers. You don't have to have been there to book a flight to India for someone. Considering all possibilities, not a high one IMO, but maybe Vaj is blowing smoke. Still, by causing others to look into such methods, even if he has in no way mastered them - not relevant -- he provides a travel agent function. But then again, are methods necessary? (as in having to go to traditions and other teachers) A quirky questions I asked last night -- but a real one. My current methods are essentially self-conceived. Things that simply came to me. Jungle methods. They work for me. Home made. Much taster and nutritious than store bought stuff. So I am not super eager to find new methods. But I have interest -- if only from an art appreciation perspective.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Oh by the way. Since you come here to shit over everyone it is my business. Read it and weep. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: What duplicity you use. What a laughable response. Khachab stays at my house, idiot. I have his personal cell #. If I have a question or something to say I call him directly. Khachab wouldn't give you a moment of consideration, especially to a We made certain of that claim. What a fake you are. An utter bullshitter. Samaya means To give words of honor like a knight to his liege lord. You have no honor. I hope you complain, you fool. Khachab might inquire further. Maybe that way we could find out the truth about you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 28, 2011, at 7:10 PM, emptybill wrote: Who are you trying to kid? You have proclaimed all sorts esoterica here. Except your implied training and your sources. That means they lack credibility. Aren't you ashamed of putting all these people on? No, of course not, as I'm not. I do know this, your guru did not like it when another of his students did the kind of thing you are pulling, and he was expelled from the sangha. We made certain of that. Students of gurus/lamas/mentors praise their teachers. You only praise those who don't know you, like Alan Wallace. I don't cast pearls where they're not appreciated, nor do I advertise for gurus. Sorry, no exceptions. Pony up. What are you trying to hide? Answer the obvious questions. You might finally have some credibility. Webinars don't count for anything. Where did you learn TM? What TM courses were you ever on? Who are your gurus? Do you really have any? Forget public McAbhisheka-s. What tantric training do you regularly practice? I've been advised to concentrate on the dark retreat instructions I've received over the last 30 years, along with various upadesha practices, and the abhyantaravarga teachings. Not that it's really any of your business. Buh bye.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Don't you know? V-We are of Peace is beyond transcending. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Thanks for continuing to reveal this fool for who he is, emptybill. I venture that the last time Vaj transcended was at birth - lol. He knows as much about TM and Maharishi as he does his foolish masquerade of wrathful compassion. What a fake. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: What duplicity you use. What a laughable response. Khachab stays at my house, idiot. I have his personal cell #. If I have a question or something to say I call him directly. Khachab wouldn't give you a moment of consideration, especially to a We made certain of that claim. What a fake you are. An utter bullshitter. Samaya means To give words of honor like a knight to his liege lord. You have no honor. I hope you complain, you fool. Khachab might inquire further. Maybe that way we could find out the truth about you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 28, 2011, at 7:10 PM, emptybill wrote: Who are you trying to kid? You have proclaimed all sorts esoterica here. Except your implied training and your sources. That means they lack credibility. Aren't you ashamed of putting all these people on? No, of course not, as I'm not. I do know this, your guru did not like it when another of his students did the kind of thing you are pulling, and he was expelled from the sangha. We made certain of that. Students of gurus/lamas/mentors praise their teachers. You only praise those who don't know you, like Alan Wallace. I don't cast pearls where they're not appreciated, nor do I advertise for gurus. Sorry, no exceptions. Pony up. What are you trying to hide? Answer the obvious questions. You might finally have some credibility. Webinars don't count for anything. Where did you learn TM? What TM courses were you ever on? Who are your gurus? Do you really have any? Forget public McAbhisheka-s. What tantric training do you regularly practice? I've been advised to concentrate on the dark retreat instructions I've received over the last 30 years, along with various upadesha practices, and the abhyantaravarga teachings. Not that it's really any of your business. Buh bye.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: See Jim, whats not to love. I have NO idea what the dark retreat instructions, the upadesha practices (well, I have an inkling what they are) and the abhyantaravarga teachings. (I would consider it a great boon if I could just pronounce that properly.) I am sure researching would be of value to me. I will probably do it. Maybe the methods are not my cup of tea. Still its GREAT IMO that such diversity of methods exist and are flourishing. That's the thing. He sounds credible. And what he says often sounds right on. But then along will come emptybill with all his credible sounding rebutals, and who knows where the truth lies. Sure I could take the time to try to sort it out, and do some research. But as Vaj said a little while ago. I have a life
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 26, 2011, at 7:00 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Uh huh. Read: Vaj has corrected the historical record and placed Mahesh in his proper context: a crook and a molester of women. So, you seem to think that Shankara was -- according to Shankara-dig-vijaya by Maadhava-VidyaaraNya -- molesting women after having performed the yogic siddhi 'cittasya para-shariiraavesha' into the dead body of King Amaruka?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 27, 2011, at 4:10 AM, cardemaister wrote: So, you seem to think that Shankara was -- according to Shankara-dig-vijaya by Maadhava-VidyaaraNya -- molesting women after having performed the yogic siddhi 'cittasya para-shariiraavesha' into the dead body of King Amaruka? Interesting thought. Perhaps this textual reference does represent a convoluted red herring for the Shankara traditions first molestation? It certainly always seemed like a rather wild story.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 26, 2011, at 9:41 PM, richardnelson108 wrote: Thanks for giving me the post # on mahapatra. I can't really comment on it much. Some of it (about MMY's health) does match with what he told me. I can only say that he had only positive things to say about MMY, how much he loved him and how much teaching TM meant to him. He was clearly moved by his time with him. Oh, and by the way, regarding my research on the Guru Dev poisoning, I did not go to India to look into this at all. I just happenned to be there and was introduced to that Supreme Court judge and it came up in conversation, among many other topics. Once it was brought up, I did drill him on it because I had heard the same rumors you all have heard. The same thing with the people I spoke to at the Shankaracahraya ashram. It was not the point of my conversations, my trips or my interests. It was a small footnote among many, many things that were discussed. I have two sources on it: one a published interview with one of SBS's students and a Shankaracharya, the other another a now deceased jivan- mukta. Q: Mahesh Yogi claims that he preaches yoga according to the instruction of his Guru. The truth of the matter, however, is that Guru Dev never asked anyone who is not a Brahmin by birth to go and spread his teachings. What is your opinion? Shankaracharya: This is true. [testimony he's not a lineal teacher in SBS's line] In reality, preaching, initiating, guiding people engaged in spiritual pursuits, is the duty of those who are born in a Brahmin family. If he is a follower of Sanatan Dharma (the Hindu religion), he should not do what he is doing. This is against the orders of his Guru. [more testimony] Moreover, making others write puujya (revered), calling himself Maharishi (a great seer) is totally inappropriate. No assembly of saints has either conferred upon him a title of Maharishi nor has announced him puujya. [faked name] In the ashram he was doing the work of typing and writing and translation. Then he became a sadhu. However, he has never practiced yoga. [not a yogi] It is said that Guru Dev was given poison. Who gave that poison we don't know but we know that there was poison in his body. When Guru Dev's body became unwell, then we wanted him to go to Kashi to rest. But he (Mahesh) removed him from that trip forcibly and took him to speak in Calcutta. There he died. [explanation as to why Mahesh was seen as a suspect, and that he was directly involved in circumstances surrounding the poisoning of SBS] After that, this man spread his net. He went abroad. First to Singapore. The expatriate Indians there, thinking that he is the disciple of Shankaracharya, received him well and got him a ticket for the United States. After going to America, he brought the Beatles back here. It was rumored that he did inappropriate things with them and that's why they left him and went away. [i.e. the earlier rumor stage of Mahesh's molestation of young women] He later opened many camps and pretended that he could teach people to read minds and levitate. No one, however, succeeded in learning the things he promised. He himself does not know or practice yoga. He does not know anything about those things. [again, not an actual yogi nor does he have any legit. training]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Thanks for providing these sources --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: I have two sources on it: one a published interview with one of SBS's students and a Shankaracharya, the other another a now deceased jivan- mukta. Q: Mahesh Yogi claims that he preaches yoga according to the instruction of his Guru. The truth of the matter, however, is that Guru Dev never asked anyone who is not a Brahmin by birth to go and spread his teachings. What is your opinion? Shankaracharya: This is true. [testimony he's not a lineal teacher in SBS's line] In reality, preaching, initiating, guiding people engaged in spiritual pursuits, is the duty of those who are born in a Brahmin family. If he is a follower of Sanatan Dharma (the Hindu religion), he should not do what he is doing. This is against the orders of his Guru. [more testimony] Moreover, making others write puujya (revered), calling himself Maharishi (a great seer) is totally inappropriate. No assembly of saints has either conferred upon him a title of Maharishi nor has announced him puujya. [faked name] In the ashram he was doing the work of typing and writing and translation. Then he became a sadhu. However, he has never practiced yoga. [not a yogi] It is said that Guru Dev was given poison. Who gave that poison we don't know but we know that there was poison in his body. When Guru Dev's body became unwell, then we wanted him to go to Kashi to rest. But he (Mahesh) removed him from that trip forcibly and took him to speak in Calcutta. There he died. [explanation as to why Mahesh was seen as a suspect, and that he was directly involved in circumstances surrounding the poisoning of SBS] After that, this man spread his net. He went abroad. First to Singapore. The expatriate Indians there, thinking that he is the disciple of Shankaracharya, received him well and got him a ticket for the United States. After going to America, he brought the Beatles back here. It was rumored that he did inappropriate things with them and that's why they left him and went away. [i.e. the earlier rumor stage of Mahesh's molestation of young women] He later opened many camps and pretended that he could teach people to read minds and levitate. No one, however, succeeded in learning the things he promised. He himself does not know or practice yoga. He does not know anything about those things. [again, not an actual yogi nor does he have any legit. training]
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Thanks for providing these sources One of the reasons I don't post it every time this topic comes up, is because I assume most people who've done any objective examination of Mahesh and his character are already familiar with it from years ago. Those who aren't familiar with it won't accept it anyway.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Thanks for providing these sources One of the reasons I don't post it every time this topic comes up, is because I assume most people who've done any objective examination of Mahesh and his character are already familiar with it from years ago. Those who aren't familiar with it won't accept it anyway. I am familiar with the stories. But I am also familiar with two shanks -- personal audience with one, small group audience with another. An am somewhat familiar with the histories of some others. I am not sure that I would bet the farm on what these gentlemen said on any matter. I hardly think that coming from the mouth of a shank is irrefutable. And of course, what was said, in what context, and what was not reported that was also said. Lots of interesting stories.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Thanks for providing these sources One of the reasons I don't post it every time this topic comes up, is because I assume most people who've done any objective examination of Mahesh and his character are already familiar with it from years ago. Those who aren't familiar with it won't accept it anyway. I am familiar with the stories. But I am also familiar with two shanks -- personal audience with one, small group audience with another. An am somewhat familiar with the histories of some others. I am not sure that I would bet the farm on what these gentlemen said on any matter. I hardly think that coming from the mouth of a shank is irrefutable. And of course, what was said, in what context, and what was not reported that was also said. Lots of interesting stories. I agree with Tart. I met wth Swaroopanand privately and he had nothing but good things to say about MMY and what he was doing in the world. Of course, he could have just been saying it to be nice to me, but it makes you question what the truth is. Vaj, quoting Swaroopanand as the the true source about MMY is like asking the Republican Presidential Candidate to comment about the Democratic one during the campaign (and vice versa). Everything is circumstantial. Depending on who when, where and how the questions are asked, you may get a different answer. But its like you said Vaj, people will only accept what they want to. You clearly have your position on all this and nothing is going to change it. And so do I. The difference between us is that you claim I am a drooling TB. You know nothing about me and you assume a lot. I know MMY had his faults. But to me that is irrelevant. What I always loved and respected about him was that he set up TM to be a technique that was independent of him. So if he was a womanizer, a theif or whatever, what does that have to do with me? Nothing. I can enjoy TM, get the benefits as promised and really not give two shits about MMY or his personal life. You, on the other hand, have this buring desire to make him the devil, even though you say you have transcended your TM practice. Don't you have anything better to do with your time?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 27, 2011, at 11:00 AM, richardnelson108 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Thanks for providing these sources One of the reasons I don't post it every time this topic comes up, is because I assume most people who've done any objective examination of Mahesh and his character are already familiar with it from years ago. Those who aren't familiar with it won't accept it anyway. I am familiar with the stories. But I am also familiar with two shanks -- personal audience with one, small group audience with another. An am somewhat familiar with the histories of some others. I am not sure that I would bet the farm on what these gentlemen said on any matter. I hardly think that coming from the mouth of a shank is irrefutable. And of course, what was said, in what context, and what was not reported that was also said. Lots of interesting stories. I agree with Tart. I met wth Swaroopanand privately and he had nothing but good things to say about MMY and what he was doing in the world. Of course, he could have just been saying it to be nice to me, but it makes you question what the truth is. Many sannyasis will take vows that prevent them from saying anything negative about another guru.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
This was not the case with the Puri shank that I met with. He had negative things to say about some types of teachers (no specific names) However, since by his own statements, Swaroop, given his strict adherence to caste class framework (that could be a red flag), stated MMY was not eligible to be a Guru. Thus even if he did take such a sannyasin oath, it would hardly prevent frank talk about MMY. And wait, didn't he already speak negatively of MMY? Sorry, in my deep delusion, I am not following your logic here. (Is it a form of shunnya logic?) And Sannyasins take many vows, I think some are not to travel other than on foot, etc. hardly all are kept literally. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 11:00 AM, richardnelson108 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Thanks for providing these sources One of the reasons I don't post it every time this topic comes up, is because I assume most people who've done any objective examination of Mahesh and his character are already familiar with it from years ago. Those who aren't familiar with it won't accept it anyway. I am familiar with the stories. But I am also familiar with two shanks -- personal audience with one, small group audience with another. An am somewhat familiar with the histories of some others. I am not sure that I would bet the farm on what these gentlemen said on any matter. I hardly think that coming from the mouth of a shank is irrefutable. And of course, what was said, in what context, and what was not reported that was also said. Lots of interesting stories. I agree with Tart. I met wth Swaroopanand privately and he had nothing but good things to say about MMY and what he was doing in the world. Of course, he could have just been saying it to be nice to me, but it makes you question what the truth is. Many sannyasis will take vows that prevent them from saying anything negative about another guru.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@... wrote: Snip You, on the other hand, have this buring desire to make him the devil, even though you say you have transcended your TM practice. Don't you have anything better to do with your time? I believe Vaj's contributions here are more sincere than that. If you accept the premise that there really IS a tradition of knowledge of yoga, and if you believe that Maharishi has corrupted it, then it all makes sense why Vaj would care. It comes from taking the knowledge very seriously. When we were all earnest TM teachers in the centers, if we had heard some guy was skipping the puja and selling TM mantras we would be incensed to our bones. We would be motivated to expose the person as a fraud and we would consider it our duty for the sake of the innocent public who was getting ripped off according to our POV. I don't share a confidence in whatever traditions of yoga Vaj is into, but I at least give him credit for being really into it and experiencing something that was compelling enough for him to come to the conclusions he has about the problems with Maharishi as a teacher and the limitations of TM as a practice. I started thinking of posting something with the whole rap about the Ayur vedic doctor who Vaj said was unhappy with Maharishi and Richard said was still very much into him. Having had a front row seat for the contentious relationship between Maharishi and Triguna I find both POVs to be credible and non contradictory. Maharishi was a hard-ball guy but he had resources that these guys wanted. So depending on what day you spoke to Triguna you might get the perspective that he was furious that his services were being charged for in DC in contradiction to the Charaka Samhita. (Or maybe he was pissed because he didn't get a cut but only sold the medicines.) Or you might get a whole flowery speech about what a great guy Maharishi was and how wonderful it was that he was bringing Ayur Veda to the world. Same thing with Dr. Lad who was salty about Maharishi using his materials without recognition after he refused to participate with Maharishi's proprietary program. And then throw in a whole heap of Indian's tendency to piss and moan like drama queens about everything. So I don't get the impression that Richard is some one-dimentional TB, he seems sincere and has added a lot to this discussion from his experience. And I feel the same way about Vaj. Because you both care about these topics, it makes the discussions more interesting for me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Thanks for providing these sources One of the reasons I don't post it every time this topic comes up, is because I assume most people who've done any objective examination of Mahesh and his character are already familiar with it from years ago. Those who aren't familiar with it won't accept it anyway. I am familiar with the stories. But I am also familiar with two shanks -- personal audience with one, small group audience with another. An am somewhat familiar with the histories of some others. I am not sure that I would bet the farm on what these gentlemen said on any matter. I hardly think that coming from the mouth of a shank is irrefutable. And of course, what was said, in what context, and what was not reported that was also said. Lots of interesting stories. I agree with Tart. I met wth Swaroopanand privately and he had nothing but good things to say about MMY and what he was doing in the world. Of course, he could have just been saying it to be nice to me, but it makes you question what the truth is. Vaj, quoting Swaroopanand as the the true source about MMY is like asking the Republican Presidential Candidate to comment about the Democratic one during the campaign (and vice versa). Everything is circumstantial. Depending on who when, where and how the questions are asked, you may get a different answer. But its like you said Vaj, people will only accept what they want to. You clearly have your position on all this and nothing is going to change it. And so do I. The difference between us is that you claim I am a drooling TB. You know nothing about me and you assume a lot. I know MMY had his faults. But to me that is irrelevant. What I always loved and respected about him was that he set up TM to be a technique that was independent of him. So if he was a womanizer, a theif or whatever, what does that have to do with me? Nothing. I can enjoy TM, get the benefits as promised and really not give two shits about MMY or his personal life. You, on the other hand, have this buring desire to make him the devil, even though you say
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 11:00 AM, richardnelson108 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Thanks for providing these sources One of the reasons I don't post it every time this topic comes up, is because I assume most people who've done any objective examination of Mahesh and his character are already familiar with it from years ago. Those who aren't familiar with it won't accept it anyway. I am familiar with the stories. But I am also familiar with two shanks -- personal audience with one, small group audience with another. An am somewhat familiar with the histories of some others. I am not sure that I would bet the farm on what these gentlemen said on any matter. I hardly think that coming from the mouth of a shank is irrefutable. And of course, what was said, in what context, and what was not reported that was also said. Lots of interesting stories. I agree with Tart. I met wth Swaroopanand privately and he had nothing but good things to say about MMY and what he was doing in the world. Of course, he could have just been saying it to be nice to me, but it makes you question what the truth is. Many sannyasis will take vows that prevent them from saying anything negative about another guru. Vaj, You are such an idiot. First you produce a story of Swaroopanand saying bad things about MMY. Then I produce a story of him telling me good thing about him. But then you say he may have taken vows preventing him from saying bad things about another guru, when you have just quoted him saying bad things? Makes no sense.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@ wrote: Snip You, on the other hand, have this buring desire to make him the devil, even though you say you have transcended your TM practice. Don't you have anything better to do with your time? I believe Vaj's contributions here are more sincere than that. If you accept the premise that there really IS a tradition of knowledge of yoga, and if you believe that Maharishi has corrupted it, then it all makes sense why Vaj would care. It comes from taking the knowledge very seriously. When we were all earnest TM teachers in the centers, if we had heard some guy was skipping the puja and selling TM mantras we would be incensed to our bones. We would be motivated to expose the person as a fraud and we would consider it our duty for the sake of the innocent public who was getting ripped off according to our POV. I don't share a confidence in whatever traditions of yoga Vaj is into, but I at least give him credit for being really into it and experiencing something that was compelling enough for him to come to the conclusions he has about the problems with Maharishi as a teacher and the limitations of TM as a practice. I started thinking of posting something with the whole rap about the Ayur vedic doctor who Vaj said was unhappy with Maharishi and Richard said was still very much into him. Having had a front row seat for the contentious relationship between Maharishi and Triguna I find both POVs to be credible and non contradictory. Maharishi was a hard-ball guy but he had resources that these guys wanted. So depending on what day you spoke to Triguna you might get the perspective that he was furious that his services were being charged for in DC in contradiction to the Charaka Samhita. (Or maybe he was pissed because he didn't get a cut but only sold the medicines.) Or you might get a whole flowery speech about what a great guy Maharishi was and how wonderful it was that he was bringing Ayur Veda to the world. Same thing with Dr. Lad who was salty about Maharishi using his materials without recognition after he refused to participate with Maharishi's proprietary program. And then throw in a whole heap of Indian's tendency to piss and moan like drama queens about everything. So I don't get the impression that Richard is some one-dimentional TB, he seems sincere and has added a lot to this discussion from his experience. And I feel the same way about Vaj. Because you both care about these topics, it makes the discussions more interesting for me. Thanks Curtis for your comments. As I ahve said, I am not a TB. I have left the movement 30 years ago because of policies that I disagreed with, which were put in place by MMY. If I was a TB, as Vaj likes to say I am, I would have stayed. And I agree that if Vaj was coming from the place of trying to tell the true story of MMY and saving us all from the perils of being in a cult, I would appreciate that. But it seems to me that if anyone is the TB for anti TM, it is him. He does not want to discuss or debate. He just wants to put down MMY and anything that has to do with him. Not my position at all. For example, I have read Judith's book and assuming she is telling the truth, then MMY had a sleeze bucket side. I will be the first to admit it. Also, we all know how controlling he could be about many things. So I am simply trying to present the positive sides of the stories when Vaj brings up the negative. He reminds of something that Deepak said to me. He was talking about the TM-Ex people who used to carry protest signs outside of courses going on in Washington, DC in the 80's. He said a fanatic will always be a fanatic. When they were in TM, they were fanatics for it. Then when they left, they are fanatics against it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Thanks for providing these sources One of the reasons I don't post it every time this topic comes up, is because I assume most people who've done any objective examination of Mahesh and his character are already familiar with it from years ago. Those who aren't familiar with it won't accept it anyway. I am familiar with the stories. But I am also familiar with two shanks -- personal audience with one, small group audience with another. An am somewhat familiar with the histories of some others. I am not sure that I would bet the farm on what these gentlemen said on any matter. I hardly think that coming from the mouth of a shank is irrefutable. And of course, what was said, in
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@... wrote: snip He reminds of something that Deepak said to me. He was talking about the TM-Ex people who used to carry protest signs outside of courses going on in Washington, DC in the 80's. He said a fanatic will always be a fanatic. When they were in TM, they were fanatics for it. Then when they left, they are fanatics against it. Thanks for the response Richard. You seem like a lot of us who has chosen a mix of POV's on the complexity that was Maharishi and his movement. Realistic. Since I knew some of those sign holders in TM-EX I'm really not sure the pejorative term fanatic is fair. They were also sincerely motivated by what they perceived as deception in the movement compounded by the fact that some of them felt that TM had really harmed them psychologically. They were thoughtful people and they cared. I really enjoyed my time in TM, and other than a bit more dissociation than I felt I needed, didn't feel that I was mentally scarred by my practice. I didn't feel any desire to picket with signs. I just thought the conclusions Maharishi had drawn about the states of mind it produced were wrong. I also felt that the movement was manipulative and used some cult tactics under the guise of for your own good. But the TM-Exer's were the kind of people who went into the helping professions like nursing and counseling. They were more sigh-holding types than I am. Once I got my perspective out in the press I was ready to move on to studying my guitar. But they stuck with it and felt that this was important work. Some of them are still professionally involved in working with family's who felt their kids had fallen into a destructive cult. Usually they were still dependent on their parents financially so it was at the drug addict level of non-sustainability. The main players in TM-Ex weren't even TM teachers, so I was much more fanatical in the movement than they were. Being really enthusiastic and usually a pretty vocal advocate for whatever I am into I always view the term fanatic with a bit of suspicion. It sounds like how people who are not as passionate about their beliefs describe someone who is. So when I was into TM I was really vocal about it and when I got out I was too. If you are a communicator type person is is just part of your nature. And judging by Chopras own fixation on matters spiritual and his huckstering of those beliefs as a product, I hardly think he is in a position to call someone else a fanatic! What he meant IMO is that he disagreed with their perspective and wanted to poopy pants them up a bit to make them look bad. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@ wrote: Snip You, on the other hand, have this buring desire to make him the devil, even though you say you have transcended your TM practice. Don't you have anything better to do with your time? I believe Vaj's contributions here are more sincere than that. If you accept the premise that there really IS a tradition of knowledge of yoga, and if you believe that Maharishi has corrupted it, then it all makes sense why Vaj would care. It comes from taking the knowledge very seriously. When we were all earnest TM teachers in the centers, if we had heard some guy was skipping the puja and selling TM mantras we would be incensed to our bones. We would be motivated to expose the person as a fraud and we would consider it our duty for the sake of the innocent public who was getting ripped off according to our POV. I don't share a confidence in whatever traditions of yoga Vaj is into, but I at least give him credit for being really into it and experiencing something that was compelling enough for him to come to the conclusions he has about the problems with Maharishi as a teacher and the limitations of TM as a practice. I started thinking of posting something with the whole rap about the Ayur vedic doctor who Vaj said was unhappy with Maharishi and Richard said was still very much into him. Having had a front row seat for the contentious relationship between Maharishi and Triguna I find both POVs to be credible and non contradictory. Maharishi was a hard-ball guy but he had resources that these guys wanted. So depending on what day you spoke to Triguna you might get the perspective that he was furious that his services were being charged for in DC in contradiction to the Charaka Samhita. (Or maybe he was pissed because he didn't get a cut but only sold the medicines.) Or you might get a whole flowery speech about what a great guy Maharishi was and how wonderful it was that he was bringing Ayur Veda to the world. Same thing with Dr. Lad who was salty about Maharishi
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 27, 2011, at 10:24 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Thanks for providing these sources I am familiar with the stories. But I am also familiar with two shanks -- personal audience with one, small group audience with another. An am somewhat familiar with the histories of some others. I am not sure that I would bet the farm on what these gentlemen said on any matter. I hardly think that coming from the mouth of a shank is irrefutable. And of course, what was said, in what context, and what was not reported that was also said. Lots of interesting stories. The Shank who is so full of vile, and of course is the source of Vaj´s fanciful rumours is the fellow who tried to become Shankaracharya of Jyotir Math but was refused. He somewhat blamed Maharishi for this and later used every opportunity to speak ill of Maharishi. Those who think a Shank only sees and speaks the truth must reconsider their beliefs, they are not necessarily saints.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: I am familiar with the stories. But I am also familiar with two shanks -- personal audience with one, small group audience with another. An am somewhat familiar with the histories of some others. I am not sure that I would bet the farm on what these gentlemen said on any matter. I hardly think that coming from the mouth of a shank is irrefutable. And of course, what was said, in what context, and what was not reported that was also said. Lots of interesting stories. I agree. But it is helpful to have some context for these stories, or rumors, or perspectives. And then you can piece together something that might resemble what actually happened in a situation. Not that it makes much difference in the long run. But I find it useful to get things sorted out to some extent.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@... wrote: snip I believe Vaj's contributions here are more sincere than that. If you accept the premise that there really IS a tradition of knowledge of yoga, and if you believe that Maharishi has corrupted it, then it all makes sense why Vaj would care. It comes from taking the knowledge very seriously. Being sincere about one's own tradition is one thing; being intellectually honest in comparing it to another tradition is something else again. Two points: One, Vaj never addresses the question of whether MMY corrupted the tradition, or whether he *reformed* it after it had been corrupted by others. There's a good case to be made for the latter, but Vaj won't even acknowledge it, let alone debate it. Two, what does not make sense is why Vaj misrepresents, in very specific and documentable ways, the basic instructions for practicing TM when he claims to have been a TM teacher. It's not just a matter of not using TM lingo, it's misrepresentation of the mechanics. (Extensive documentation on request.) Neither of these smacks of intellectual honesty. How can a sincere comparison between teachings be made when one of them is consistently and willfully shortchanged? Again, it's like a devout Roman Catholic scholar putting down Martin Luther because his teachings didn't accord with those of the Vatican, rather than making a reasoned case for the Vatican's teachings being more authentic and for why Luther's were a corruption. One may be sincere in one's beliefs about the value of a tradition, but when the sole basis for the negative judgment of a different tradition is that it's different from the tradition one favors, it's hard to accept it as a serious argument. Vaj might as well be a fundamentalist Christian arguing that Jesus is the only way to salvation because the Bible says so and that TM is demonic because that isn't what *it* teaches.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: You've been harping on this one for years lurk.. it evidently got to you. So sure, go ahead and bring up the claim and show me how wrong I was. Here ya go, Sal. Below is post #243746 made on March 14, 2010 (a little over a year ago, not years as Sal claims). And shortly after the exchange quoted below, in another post, Sal accused Lurk (Steve, seventhray1) of lying about her ever having made the posts I documented. Sal didn't respond further. She never apologized for having called Steve a liar. She won't respond any further to this response to her demand for documentation, either. This is *absolutely standard* with Sal. Whenever she's presented with evidence that something she's claimed was in error, she vanishes into the woodwork. As far as she's concerned, it never happened. - --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On Mar 13, 2010, at 10:28 PM, lurkernomore20002000 wrote: Ok Sal, I'm going to give it right back to you. I remember when the John Edwards mistress, love child story broke. You totally ridiculed me for buying into it, because the story was broken by, OMG, The National Enquirer. Sounds *very* unlikely, lurk, as I've said here, more than once, that the NI usually gets its stories right, and has ever since the OJ Simpson case. Care to find the posts? I tried to find some but they didn't appear to exist. (And no, I haven't deleted any.) Would you like to try? Funny, I didn't have any trouble finding them: 184848 184871 184878 184912 Here's 184878: - Thanks, boo, that's what I was thinking. Obviously the Enq knows they can't be sued or else they wouldn't print trash as if it were 'fact.' I was kind of wondering why I hadn't seen the 'revelations' before lurk posted them, then I saw where they came from. Really scraping the bottom of the barrel, aren't we, lurk? If this is how you and others support the Repugs, heaven help them. You and your party deserve each other. - She was wrong on two other counts in this post as well: the Enquirer has been successfully sued a number of times for publishing false information; and the story had already hit the MSM at this point. Sal wasn't the only one; boo_lives also embarrassed himself pretty thoroughly. The thread title was Obama's Many Accomplishments, if anyone wants to see the whole discussion. - I would add that when Sal claimed she had tried to find the posts, it's very odd that she concluded that they didn't appear to exist. Either she's totally incompetent at using Yahoo Search, or she was lying. They were easy to find. So she was wrong about Edwards; wrong about the Enquirer; and wrong that she never made those posts. And she never copped to *any* of it. As Steve says below, she chose to absent [herself] from further discussion once [her] position became untenable. On May 26, 2011, at 10:25 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Sal, if you wish me to bring up an instance where you called me a gulliable fool, or idiot for believing something that you evidently did not care to believe, but which turned out to be 100% true, I will be glad to do so. In that instance you chose to absent yourself from further discussion once your position became untenable. It is fine to participate, But I feel that if you state opinions, you may sometimes be called to defend or clarify those opinions. And I happen to feel that it is a little lame to suddenly decide that one doesn't want to participate to that extent. Certainly there are exceptions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Don't you know that salvation is through faith alone? No works can warrant it! I heard it from my Uncle: God sez jus git on yur neez an pray jeezus to forgiv you. That's even easier than the mantra of a hindoo demon and surely to happen. Judy quick call Ratko Mladic and tell him. .. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: Vaj might as well be a fundamentalist Christian arguing thatJesus is the only way to salvation because the Bible says so and that TM is demonic because that isn't what *it* teaches.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@... wrote: Turquoiseb: The reality of FFL is that since the beginning of this posting week, five posters (Judy, Jim, Willytex, Nabby, and Ravi) have made 62 posts either insulting me, trying to refute something I said, or otherwise putting me down... In 1989, Rama justified to the disciples his rising tuition. I nearly killed myself by accepting your Negative Occult Energy, he said, and now you are going to have to pay for it... Thanks for this, this really confirms my suspicion that Turq is still under Rama's spell, he really needs true love and compassion of a true Yogi. Right now he is just crying in pain and his act of the TM Cult Crusader is not fooling anyone - a Cultish Wolf in a Skeptic Sheep's garb. His comments below make total sense. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Ravi, I shall break form and reply to this one, because it gives me the opportunity to rap about the occult theory behind why I ignore your silly ass. It's because of something I learned from a couple of spiritual teachers. When someone appears to be obses- sing on you, on an occult level it's because they're trying to suck your energy, in the form of attention.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Ravi, Bozotronic Barry always brings up this sci-fi BS whenever his fragile ego feels put upon. Poor baby.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: Turquoiseb: The reality of FFL is that since the beginning of this posting week, five posters (Judy, Jim, Willytex, Nabby, and Ravi) have made 62 posts either insulting me, trying to refute something I said, or otherwise putting me down... In 1989, Rama justified to the disciples his rising tuition. I nearly killed myself by accepting your Negative Occult Energy, he said, and now you are going to have to pay for it... Thanks for this, this really confirms my suspicion that Turq is still under Rama's spell, he really needs true love and compassion of a true Yogi. Right now he is just crying in pain and his act of the TM Cult Crusader is not fooling anyone - a Cultish Wolf in a Skeptic Sheep's garb. His comments below make total sense. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Ravi, I shall break form and reply to this one, because it gives me the opportunity to rap about the occult theory behind why I ignore your silly ass. It's because of something I learned from a couple of spiritual teachers. When someone appears to be obses- sing on you, on an occult level it's because they're trying to suck your energy, in the form of attention.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Jim, yes - very interesting patterns emerge. Barry indeed feels victimized, threatened and obsessed with cults. There is a strange hold that cult leaders still have on him, clearly Rama killed himself but Barry continues to believe in this Negative Occult Energy B.S. that Rama taught. And then Barry continuously harasses, abuses and bullies through his writing (which clearly is one of his strengths). So the victim now has turned into a bully. And it has come a full circle, like you say karma is such a bitch. I have really bullied him ever since he welcomed me on this list :-). He can't believe someone like me can claim to have an awakening and still be a better bully than him, he's tried everything to avoid me but he apparently can't..LOL.since he views the world through the lenses of Rama. Everyone either looks like Rama, the bully or they look like Barry, the victim. In fact I feel incredibly sad for this man, but at the same time I'm forced to respond to the continuous lies and deception he man engages in, because I clearly have nothing better to do with some of my time everyday:-). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Ravi, Bozotronic Barry always brings up this sci-fi BS whenever his fragile ego feels put upon. Poor baby.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, WillyTex willytex@ wrote: Turquoiseb: The reality of FFL is that since the beginning of this posting week, five posters (Judy, Jim, Willytex, Nabby, and Ravi) have made 62 posts either insulting me, trying to refute something I said, or otherwise putting me down... In 1989, Rama justified to the disciples his rising tuition. I nearly killed myself by accepting your Negative Occult Energy, he said, and now you are going to have to pay for it... Thanks for this, this really confirms my suspicion that Turq is still under Rama's spell, he really needs true love and compassion of a true Yogi. Right now he is just crying in pain and his act of the TM Cult Crusader is not fooling anyone - a Cultish Wolf in a Skeptic Sheep's garb. His comments below make total sense. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Ravi, I shall break form and reply to this one, because it gives me the opportunity to rap about the occult theory behind why I ignore your silly ass. It's because of something I learned from a couple of spiritual teachers. When someone appears to be obses- sing on you, on an occult level it's because they're trying to suck your energy, in the form of attention.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: A pile-on just wouldn't be the same without a drive-by from feste. Sal On May 25, 2011, at 2:42 PM, feste37 wrote: Vaj reminds me of the wacko political right who will say anything to put their Democratic enemies in a bad light. For example, the claims in the 1990s that Bill Clinton was involved in drug-running and that Vince Foster, the Clinton aide, was murdered. Same thing against Obama. They will say anything at all. Evidence? No need to bother with it. Just get the smear out there and watch it do its work. This kind of stuff says more about the accusers than it does about the accused. You can no more have a rational conversation with Vaj about MMY than you can with Rush Limbaugh and his ilk about Obama. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 25, 2011, at 1:20 PM, richardnelson108 wrote: And yet you assume you know that Maharishi stole the formulas I heard it directly from one of Balraj's students. I guess one of the problems with the open, innocent hearts of healers like Balraj is that mountebanks like Mahesh love to use them and toss them away, like used toys. The same way you know that Maharishi poisoned Guru Dev, which I have already pointed out previously is a lie. Actually I said he was a leading suspect. It really speaks more to his character; how people saw him. I mean if he was the sattvic, white silk-clad, benevolent saint some might imagine, would he have ever been a suspect at all? Again I ask... why do you have so much hate in your heart that you have to try to hurt MMY's reputation any way you can. I have no problem if you have an opinion about who MMY was and what he has done. But why must you constantly make your opinion into supposed facts? So one more time... Whats wrong with you? Being born with a conscience has it drawbacks. Oh Yeah, that's right.. you have such a conscience! You lie, make shit up and have the nerve to say you have a conscience! And again for the record. MMY was NEVER a prime suspect in the supposed poisoning of Guru Dev. As I previously pointed out, I have been in Allahabad many times and interviewed the judge who handled Guru Dev';s will and many others associated with Shankaracharya ashram. None of them knew anything about this supposed poisoning, so how could MMY have been a prime suspect? You haven';t been there but speak as if you have been STOP MAKING SHIT UP!! Have you opinion, fine. But again I am wondering, why you must lie to prove that your point of view is the correct one? You must have been really hurt by someone as a child.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. Not true. What actually happened is that several people have *declared* them false. Those people have IMO exactly the same level of credibility as Vaj -- namely none. No one has presented verifiable facts yet. Did you even *notice* that feste did *exactly* what he was accusing Vaj of? He just slung insults, and presented not even a single supposed fact. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Yup. The people piling on didn't even go that far. They just claimed things *as if they were facts*, but without anything that could enable anyone to determine whether they were really facts or not. In other words, on one level what we seem to have here is a pissing contest, in which both sides are saying, What I've heard is better than what you've heard. I call it total bullshit, on all sides. As for the piling on thang that Sal brings up, it *would* have been possible for Richard Nelson or others to just post a few verifiable facts (y'know...stuff including dates and contact information and where one could go to verify their claims) and leave it at that. They did not. What they did was to do *exactly* the same thing that Vaj did -- make a bunch of unverifiable claims -- and then proceed to call him names. So what it looks like from my side is 1) a pissing contest in which no one is presenting any facts, only hearsay, and 2) a situation in which the supposed TM supporters got their attachment buttons pushed so big-time that they've gone bat- shit crazy trying to call Vaj names and claim he has no credibility. Well...surprise. They don't have any, either. Everybody's just making claims. One side is also going bat- shit crazy trying to hurl insults. Since no one in this pissing contest has the least bit of credibility, I'm going to go with the side hurling the least number of personal insults as the winner. And as always, that's *not* the TM supporters. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: A pile-on just wouldn't be the same without a drive-by from feste. Sal On May 25, 2011, at 2:42 PM, feste37 wrote: Vaj reminds me of the wacko political right who will say anything to put their Democratic enemies in a bad light. For example, the claims in the 1990s that Bill Clinton was involved in drug-running and that Vince Foster, the Clinton aide, was murdered. Same thing against Obama. They will say anything at all. Evidence? No need to bother with it. Just get the smear out there and watch it do its work. This kind of stuff says more about the accusers than it does about the accused. You can no more have a rational conversation with Vaj about MMY than you can with Rush Limbaugh and his ilk about Obama. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 25, 2011, at 1:20 PM, richardnelson108 wrote: And yet you assume you know that Maharishi stole the formulas I heard it directly from one of Balraj's students. I guess one of the problems with the open, innocent hearts of healers like Balraj is that mountebanks like Mahesh love to use them and toss them away, like used toys. The same way you know that Maharishi poisoned Guru Dev, which I have already pointed out previously is a lie. Actually I said he was a leading suspect. It really speaks more to his character; how people saw him. I mean if he was the sattvic, white silk-clad, benevolent saint some might imagine, would he have ever been a suspect at all? Again I ask... why do you have so much hate in your heart that you have to try to hurt MMY's reputation any way you can. I have no problem if you have an opinion about who MMY was and what he has done. But why must you constantly make your opinion into supposed facts? So one more time... Whats wrong with you? Being born with a conscience has it drawbacks. Oh Yeah, that's right.. you have such a conscience! You lie, make shit up and have the nerve to say you have a conscience! And again for the record. MMY was NEVER a prime suspect in the supposed poisoning of Guru Dev. As I previously pointed out, I have been in Allahabad many times and interviewed the judge who handled Guru Dev';s will and many others associated with Shankaracharya ashram. None of them knew anything about this supposed poisoning, so how could MMY have been a prime suspect? You haven';t been there but speak as if you have been STOP MAKING SHIT UP!! Have you opinion, fine. But again I
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Comparing the facts of richardnelson108, based on actual events he witnessed with Vaj's imaginings, and you call them equivalent? You recently said I had the intellectual depth of a turnip. I'm sorry but I cannot even grant you that much mental capacity. Your shriveled heart and blinding ego have created in you a spiritual moron. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. Not true. What actually happened is that several people have *declared* them false. Those people have IMO exactly the same level of credibility as Vaj -- namely none. No one has presented verifiable facts yet. Did you even *notice* that feste did *exactly* what he was accusing Vaj of? He just slung insults, and presented not even a single supposed fact. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Yup. The people piling on didn't even go that far. They just claimed things *as if they were facts*, but without anything that could enable anyone to determine whether they were really facts or not. In other words, on one level what we seem to have here is a pissing contest, in which both sides are saying, What I've heard is better than what you've heard. I call it total bullshit, on all sides. As for the piling on thang that Sal brings up, it *would* have been possible for Richard Nelson or others to just post a few verifiable facts (y'know...stuff including dates and contact information and where one could go to verify their claims) and leave it at that. They did not. What they did was to do *exactly* the same thing that Vaj did -- make a bunch of unverifiable claims -- and then proceed to call him names. So what it looks like from my side is 1) a pissing contest in which no one is presenting any facts, only hearsay, and 2) a situation in which the supposed TM supporters got their attachment buttons pushed so big-time that they've gone bat- shit crazy trying to call Vaj names and claim he has no credibility. Well...surprise. They don't have any, either. Everybody's just making claims. One side is also going bat- shit crazy trying to hurl insults. Since no one in this pissing contest has the least bit of credibility, I'm going to go with the side hurling the least number of personal insults as the winner. And as always, that's *not* the TM supporters. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: A pile-on just wouldn't be the same without a drive-by from feste. Sal On May 25, 2011, at 2:42 PM, feste37 wrote: Vaj reminds me of the wacko political right who will say anything to put their Democratic enemies in a bad light. For example, the claims in the 1990s that Bill Clinton was involved in drug-running and that Vince Foster, the Clinton aide, was murdered. Same thing against Obama. They will say anything at all. Evidence? No need to bother with it. Just get the smear out there and watch it do its work. This kind of stuff says more about the accusers than it does about the accused. You can no more have a rational conversation with Vaj about MMY than you can with Rush Limbaugh and his ilk about Obama. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 25, 2011, at 1:20 PM, richardnelson108 wrote: And yet you assume you know that Maharishi stole the formulas I heard it directly from one of Balraj's students. I guess one of the problems with the open, innocent hearts of healers like Balraj is that mountebanks like Mahesh love to use them and toss them away, like used toys. The same way you know that Maharishi poisoned Guru Dev, which I have already pointed out previously is a lie. Actually I said he was a leading suspect. It really speaks more to his character; how people saw him. I mean if he was the sattvic, white silk-clad, benevolent saint some might imagine, would he have ever been a suspect at all? Again I ask... why do you have so much hate in your heart that you have to try to hurt MMY's reputation any way you can. I have no problem if you have an opinion about who MMY was and what he has done. But why must you constantly make your opinion into supposed facts? So one more time... Whats wrong with you? Being born with a conscience has it drawbacks. Oh Yeah, that's right.. you have such a conscience! You lie, make shit up and have the nerve
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Both Vaj and the Turq are regular liars on this (and probably other TM-related forums). In their pissing-contest on who's best liar Vaj is slightly ahead. Their personal issues are enormous, perhaps never treatable in this life. And they're both socalled Buddhists. As the american's say: Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 26, 2011, at 6:19 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. Not true. What actually happened is that several people have *declared* them false. Those people have IMO exactly the same level of credibility as Vaj -- namely none. No one has presented verifiable facts yet. That's what it seems to me as well~~ if there were some posts made which in any way proved Vaj's assertions to be false, or even dealt with them on any kind of level other than pseudo- hysteria, I haven't seen them. Perhaps lurk could point them out? Especially since he seems so sure that Vaj has been exposed as a liar. Where, exactly, did this occur lurk? I must have missed the posts. And this Richard Nelson seems more intent on coming across more as mentally unbalanced than in having any kind of rational discussion. Did you even *notice* that feste did *exactly* what he was accusing Vaj of? He just slung insults, and presented not even a single supposed fact. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Yup. The people piling on didn't even go that far. They just claimed things *as if they were facts*, but without anything that could enable anyone to determine whether they were really facts or not. In other words, on one level what we seem to have here is a pissing contest, in which both sides are saying, What I've heard is better than what you've heard. I call it total bullshit, on all sides. As for the piling on thang that Sal brings up, it *would* have been possible for Richard Nelson or others to just post a few verifiable facts (y'know...stuff including dates and contact information and where one could go to verify their claims) and leave it at that. They did not. What they did was to do *exactly* the same thing that Vaj did -- make a bunch of unverifiable claims -- and then proceed to call him names. Not only unverifiable claims, but almost hysterical ones at that. Which isn't exactly what you'd call either a great advertisement for meditation or a ringing endorsement for their version of the truth. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Here are Richard's facts, Jim, or at least all the ones I've seen lately~~perhaps you could post the ones I've missed: Hi, Richard here. Since this was originally written to me, I thought I would chime in. I will take responsibility for adding my negative comments about Vaj where they were not necessary. After all, the post was about Jerry Jarvis and not a response to Vaj. So therefore, as I said earlier, it may have been inappropriate I was confused and angry about the fact that no one here seemed to challenge Vaj on his facts for so long, that I felt compelled to say something and may have over reacted. But, be clear... I am not a movement true believer and did not make my comments to defend Maharishi or the movement. I just wanted the facts to be brought out and let the chips fall where they may. Vaj, You ignorant slut, What is wrong with you? And why do make this shit up? Its complete lies. Don't you know that Dr. Raju was MMY's personal physician for years and has been the head physician at a Maharishi ayurveda hospital in Delhi for many years? If your story had any truth in it, Dr. Raju would not be working at a Maharishi Ayurveda facility which uses the stolen formulas. He would have nothing to do with the TM movement or its branches because he would feel that MMY was a thief. But yet, there he is. Have you ever met Dr. Raju? Been to his hospital? Of course you haven't. Because if you had, you would know that as soon as you walk in the door, there is a huge picture of MMY and in Dr. Raju's office, same thing. If Dr. Raju thought MMY was a thief I don't think he would be sitting there with MMY's picture and greeting you with Jai Guru Dev. As usual, you just make these things up, and quote them as if they are facts. Then when confronted on your statements, you run away like a little girl and never respond when criticized. Vaj, you are a liar and have serious issues. Why do you have so much hate inside you? Vaj, You coward! As usual, no response when someone points out your lies! You love to pontificate your supposed knowledge, but you just make it up. Come on, lets debate or discuss the facts. Don't just run away like the coward you are. You know nothing of Balaraj or Raju's relationship with Maharishi. And yet you assume you know that Maharishi stole the formulas The same way you know that Maharishi poisoned Guru Dev, which I have already pointed out previously is a lie. Again I ask... why do you have so much hate in your heart that you have to try to hurt MMY's reputation any way you can. I have no problem if you have an opinion about who MMY was and what he has done. But why must you constantly make your opinion into supposed facts? So one more time... Whats wrong with you? Oh Yeah, that's right.. you have such a conscience! You lie, make shit up and have the nerve to say you have a conscience! And again for the record. MMY was NEVER a prime suspect in the supposed poisoning of Guru Dev. As I previously pointed out, I have been in Allahabad many times and interviewed the judge who handled Guru Dev';s will and many others associated with Shankaracharya ashram. None of them knew anything about this supposed poisoning, so how could MMY have been a prime suspect? You haven';t been there but speak as if you have been STOP MAKING SHIT UP!! Have you opinion, fine. But again I am wondering, why you must lie to prove that your point of view is the correct one? You must have been really hurt by someone as a child. I mean, with evidence and clear thinking like that, it's no wonder Vaj has no response! All this because Vaj wrote a few dozen words expressing his opinion on something MMY supposedly did~~stole medicines or formulas or whatever from Balraj M. That's called opinion guys, no matter how someone might express it. Jim and lurk, you feste and the others in the anti-Vaj camp definitely need a new spokesperson. Or not, your choice. But egging on someone like Richard who is clearly unstable isn't nice. Sal On May 26, 2011, at 6:29 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: Comparing the facts of richardnelson108, based on actual events he witnessed with Vaj's imaginings, and you call them equivalent? You recently said I had the intellectual depth of a turnip. I'm sorry but I cannot even grant you that much mental capacity. Your shriveled heart and blinding ego have created in you a spiritual moron.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Not only unverifiable claims, but almost hysterical ones at that. C'mon kiddies. I have been on this list for about 5 years. During that time Vaj *(Steve F.) has slandered Maharishi continuously with not a shred of evidence, presenting everything he says as above reproach. He has also slung plenty of insults as has Bozotronic Barry. So people have put up with this immature crap for five years, calling Vaj on his obvious falsehoods. Now we have richardnelson108, who has traveled to India and spoken to many of those who figure prominently in Vaj's fantasies and found out conclusively, and to no one's surprise, that Vaj IS in fact full of shit. No Question. You and Barry, having taking a hostile view of Maharishi and the TMO all of these years now jump in, in the face of credible and contradictory evidence, bitching and moaning about the treatment Vaj is receiving. Boo f*cking Hoo. You are like little children protecting the schoolyard bully. It is almost unbelievable to see so-called adults act this way. This is NOT all about you. Grow the fuck up. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On May 26, 2011, at 6:19 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. Not true. What actually happened is that several people have *declared* them false. Those people have IMO exactly the same level of credibility as Vaj -- namely none. No one has presented verifiable facts yet. That's what it seems to me as well~~ if there were some posts made which in any way proved Vaj's assertions to be false, or even dealt with them on any kind of level other than pseudo- hysteria, I haven't seen them. Perhaps lurk could point them out? Especially since he seems so sure that Vaj has been exposed as a liar. Where, exactly, did this occur lurk? I must have missed the posts. And this Richard Nelson seems more intent on coming across more as mentally unbalanced than in having any kind of rational discussion. Did you even *notice* that feste did *exactly* what he was accusing Vaj of? He just slung insults, and presented not even a single supposed fact. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Yup. The people piling on didn't even go that far. They just claimed things *as if they were facts*, but without anything that could enable anyone to determine whether they were really facts or not. In other words, on one level what we seem to have here is a pissing contest, in which both sides are saying, What I've heard is better than what you've heard. I call it total bullshit, on all sides. As for the piling on thang that Sal brings up, it *would* have been possible for Richard Nelson or others to just post a few verifiable facts (y'know...stuff including dates and contact information and where one could go to verify their claims) and leave it at that. They did not. What they did was to do *exactly* the same thing that Vaj did -- make a bunch of unverifiable claims -- and then proceed to call him names. Not only unverifiable claims, but almost hysterical ones at that. Which isn't exactly what you'd call either a great advertisement for meditation or a ringing endorsement for their version of the truth. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Wow - what a double standard, Sal! Barry puts out over two thousand pages of insults on this forum per year. Vaj less so, but still an impressive number. Richardnelson108 writes a few paragraphs and you are up in arms? Hypocrite. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: Here are Richard's facts, Jim, or at least all the ones I've seen lately~~perhaps you could post the ones I've missed: Hi, Richard here. Since this was originally written to me, I thought I would chime in. I will take responsibility for adding my negative comments about Vaj where they were not necessary. After all, the post was about Jerry Jarvis and not a response to Vaj. So therefore, as I said earlier, it may have been inappropriate I was confused and angry about the fact that no one here seemed to challenge Vaj on his facts for so long, that I felt compelled to say something and may have over reacted. But, be clear... I am not a movement true believer and did not make my comments to defend Maharishi or the movement. I just wanted the facts to be brought out and let the chips fall where they may. Vaj, You ignorant slut, What is wrong with you? And why do make this shit up? Its complete lies. Don't you know that Dr. Raju was MMY's personal physician for years and has been the head physician at a Maharishi ayurveda hospital in Delhi for many years? If your story had any truth in it, Dr. Raju would not be working at a Maharishi Ayurveda facility which uses the stolen formulas. He would have nothing to do with the TM movement or its branches because he would feel that MMY was a thief. But yet, there he is. Have you ever met Dr. Raju? Been to his hospital? Of course you haven't. Because if you had, you would know that as soon as you walk in the door, there is a huge picture of MMY and in Dr. Raju's office, same thing. If Dr. Raju thought MMY was a thief I don't think he would be sitting there with MMY's picture and greeting you with Jai Guru Dev. As usual, you just make these things up, and quote them as if they are facts. Then when confronted on your statements, you run away like a little girl and never respond when criticized. Vaj, you are a liar and have serious issues. Why do you have so much hate inside you? Vaj, You coward! As usual, no response when someone points out your lies! You love to pontificate your supposed knowledge, but you just make it up. Come on, lets debate or discuss the facts. Don't just run away like the coward you are. You know nothing of Balaraj or Raju's relationship with Maharishi. And yet you assume you know that Maharishi stole the formulas The same way you know that Maharishi poisoned Guru Dev, which I have already pointed out previously is a lie. Again I ask... why do you have so much hate in your heart that you have to try to hurt MMY's reputation any way you can. I have no problem if you have an opinion about who MMY was and what he has done. But why must you constantly make your opinion into supposed facts? So one more time... Whats wrong with you? Oh Yeah, that's right.. you have such a conscience! You lie, make shit up and have the nerve to say you have a conscience! And again for the record. MMY was NEVER a prime suspect in the supposed poisoning of Guru Dev. As I previously pointed out, I have been in Allahabad many times and interviewed the judge who handled Guru Dev';s will and many others associated with Shankaracharya ashram. None of them knew anything about this supposed poisoning, so how could MMY have been a prime suspect? You haven';t been there but speak as if you have been STOP MAKING SHIT UP!! Have you opinion, fine. But again I am wondering, why you must lie to prove that your point of view is the correct one? You must have been really hurt by someone as a child. I mean, with evidence and clear thinking like that, it's no wonder Vaj has no response! All this because Vaj wrote a few dozen words expressing his opinion on something MMY supposedly did~~stole medicines or formulas or whatever from Balraj M. That's called opinion guys, no matter how someone might express it. Jim and lurk, you feste and the others in the anti-Vaj camp definitely need a new spokesperson. Or not, your choice. But egging on someone like Richard who is clearly unstable isn't nice. Sal On May 26, 2011, at 6:29 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: Comparing the facts of richardnelson108, based on actual events he witnessed with Vaj's imaginings, and you call them equivalent? You recently said I had the intellectual depth of a turnip. I'm sorry but I cannot even grant you that much mental capacity. Your shriveled heart and blinding ego have created in you a spiritual moron.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
As I understand it Richard Nelson's sources were first hand sources who acutally were in a position to know some of the details which were alleged to have taken place. Richard says he spoke directly with the lawyer who handled SBS's will, and traveled to some of various places at issue and spoke with people who were contempories of SBS, and M. Vaj's sources seem 2 or 3 steps removed from the events they are commenting on, and are never identified in any detail. Usually they are a student of so and so And then there is what appears to be the total misrepresenation of the the Ayur Ved relationship and details with Dr. Raju, and the other guy (I don't have time to go back and look up the exact name) I mean there is first hand evidence even from people on this forum (whynot for one I believe) that contradicts many of the things Vaj said in this regard. Vaj has been asked to back up some of his assertaions, and as of now, he seems to have declined that offer. All he said was, he heard this directly from a student of Dr.___ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. Not true. What actually happened is that several people have *declared* them false. Those people have IMO exactly the same level of credibility as Vaj -- namely none. No one has presented verifiable facts yet. Did you even *notice* that feste did *exactly* what he was accusing Vaj of? He just slung insults, and presented not even a single supposed fact. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Yup. The people piling on didn't even go that far. They just claimed things *as if they were facts*, but without anything that could enable anyone to determine whether they were really facts or not. In other words, on one level what we seem to have here is a pissing contest, in which both sides are saying, What I've heard is better than what you've heard. I call it total bullshit, on all sides. As for the piling on thang that Sal brings up, it *would* have been possible for Richard Nelson or others to just post a few verifiable facts (y'know...stuff including dates and contact information and where one could go to verify their claims) and leave it at that. They did not. What they did was to do *exactly* the same thing that Vaj did -- make a bunch of unverifiable claims -- and then proceed to call him names. So what it looks like from my side is 1) a pissing contest in which no one is presenting any facts, only hearsay, and 2) a situation in which the supposed TM supporters got their attachment buttons pushed so big-time that they've gone bat- shit crazy trying to call Vaj names and claim he has no credibility. Well...surprise. They don't have any, either. Everybody's just making claims. One side is also going bat- shit crazy trying to hurl insults. Since no one in this pissing contest has the least bit of credibility, I'm going to go with the side hurling the least number of personal insults as the winner. And as always, that's *not* the TM supporters. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: A pile-on just wouldn't be the same without a drive-by from feste. Sal On May 25, 2011, at 2:42 PM, feste37 wrote: Vaj reminds me of the wacko political right who will say anything to put their Democratic enemies in a bad light. For example, the claims in the 1990s that Bill Clinton was involved in drug-running and that Vince Foster, the Clinton aide, was murdered. Same thing against Obama. They will say anything at all. Evidence? No need to bother with it. Just get the smear out there and watch it do its work. This kind of stuff says more about the accusers than it does about the accused. You can no more have a rational conversation with Vaj about MMY than you can with Rush Limbaugh and his ilk about Obama. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richardnelson108 richardnelson108@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On May 25, 2011, at 1:20 PM, richardnelson108 wrote: And yet you assume you know that Maharishi stole the formulas I heard it directly from one of Balraj's students. I guess one of the problems with the open, innocent hearts of healers like Balraj is that mountebanks like Mahesh love to use them and toss them away, like used toys. The same way you know that Maharishi poisoned Guru Dev, which I have already pointed out previously is a lie. Actually I said he was a leading suspect. It really speaks more to his character; how
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Sal, I will be glad to do this. But I will have to do it this evening when I have some time and if someone doesn't do it before then. The question will then be, are YOU willing to look at the evidence in any kind of objective way, or simply dismiss it as just some subjective view point? I have made this effort in the past, and you have never bothered you reply when evidence was presented that was contrary to your views. When asked about it later, you have said your participation in this forum is only for light banter and relaxation, and you don't care to engage in any serious talk. So, I would rather not waste my time if you are not going to be genuine participant. I gotta go now. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: That's what it seems to me as well~~ if there were some posts made which in any way proved Vaj's assertions to be false, or even dealt with them on any kind of level other than pseudo- hysteria, I haven't seen them. Perhaps lurk could point them out? Especially since he seems so sure that Vaj has been exposed as a liar. Where, exactly, did this occur lurk? I must have missed the posts. And this Richard Nelson seems more intent on coming across more as mentally unbalanced than in having any kind of rational discussion. Did you even *notice* that feste did *exactly* what he was accusing Vaj of? He just slung insults, and presented not even a single supposed fact. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Yup. The people piling on didn't even go that far. They just claimed things *as if they were facts*, but without anything that could enable anyone to determine whether they were really facts or not. In other words, on one level what we seem to have here is a pissing contest, in which both sides are saying, What I've heard is better than what you've heard. I call it total bullshit, on all sides. As for the piling on thang that Sal brings up, it *would* have been possible for Richard Nelson or others to just post a few verifiable facts (y'know...stuff including dates and contact information and where one could go to verify their claims) and leave it at that. They did not. What they did was to do *exactly* the same thing that Vaj did -- make a bunch of unverifiable claims -- and then proceed to call him names. Not only unverifiable claims, but almost hysterical ones at that. Which isn't exactly what you'd call either a great advertisement for meditation or a ringing endorsement for their version of the truth. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On May 26, 2011, at 6:19 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. Not true. What actually happened is that several people have *declared* them false. Those people have IMO exactly the same level of credibility as Vaj -- namely none. No one has presented verifiable facts yet. That's what it seems to me as well~~ if there were some posts made which in any way proved Vaj's assertions to be false, or even dealt with them on any kind of level other than pseudo- hysteria, I haven't seen them. Neither have I. Absolutely *nothing* has been presented but hearsay and unverifiable claims, by those (on both sides) who have done nothing in the past to lend them such claims any credibility. Perhaps lurk could point them out? Especially since he seems so sure that Vaj has been exposed as a liar. Where, exactly, did this occur lurk? I must have missed the posts. And you'll continue to miss them, because based on past performance he won't answer you. He (sadly) seems limited to emotional overreaction drive-bys. And this Richard Nelson seems more intent on coming across more as mentally unbalanced than in having any kind of rational discussion. Sadly, I have to agree. In his earlier drive-bys, I gave him the benefit of a doubt as possibly having something positive to contribute, because of a sweet story about Jerry. I encouraged the positivity and chided him for having to balance it at the time with a gratuitous slam at Vaj. He claimed to have gotten the point. However, he has posted nothing since *but* slams at Vaj. I'm starting to get the feeling that, like so many on this forum, that is all he is capable of. Have you noticed that NONE of these supposed TM supporters have posted anything positive about TM and its supposed benefits in months? It's been pretty much all negative, all the time. Did you even *notice* that feste did *exactly* what he was accusing Vaj of? He just slung insults, and presented not even a single supposed fact. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Yup. The people piling on didn't even go that far. They just claimed things *as if they were facts*, but without anything that could enable anyone to determine whether they were really facts or not. In other words, on one level what we seem to have here is a pissing contest, in which both sides are saying, What I've heard is better than what you've heard. I call it total bullshit, on all sides. As for the piling on thang that Sal brings up, it *would* have been possible for Richard Nelson or others to just post a few verifiable facts (y'know...stuff including dates and contact information and where one could go to verify their claims) and leave it at that. They did not. What they did was to do *exactly* the same thing that Vaj did -- make a bunch of unverifiable claims -- and then proceed to call him names. Not only unverifiable claims, but almost hysterical ones at that. Certainly angry ones, and out-of-control emotionally. Pretty interesting for people who claim to have been practicing the best form of meditation on the planet, and for decades. One of them -- the person who has posted the most gratuitous insults in this pissing contest actually claims to be enlightened. Which isn't exactly what you'd call either a great advertisement for meditation or a ringing endorsement for their version of the truth. Exactly. The point I have been making for years is that I don't see how *any* lurker on this forum could come away from the FFL experience having a positive view of TM and what it produces. Clearly, based on the TM supporters here, it produces people who are so thin-skinned and attached to their own beliefs that they have to spend the majority of their posts, week after week after week, insulting people who have committed the heinous sin of...wait for it...believing something different than they do. I'm sorry, but this seems to indicate to me that TM creates people who are *more* attached than any- one you could meet on the street, and *less* in control of their emotions. In the case of the person who claims that he's enlightened, I'm starting to believe that I was aiming far too high up the evolutionary ladder by comparing his intellect and thinking abilities to a turnip. Based on his recent posts I'm thinking more along the lines of athlete's foot fungus. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Have you even read the posts by Richard you quote here? He presents a very strong case against all the accusations made by Vaj. Read it. All you do is try to smear him as unstable, which is plainly not the case. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: Here are Richard's facts, Jim, or at least all the ones I've seen lately~~perhaps you could post the ones I've missed: Hi, Richard here. Since this was originally written to me, I thought I would chime in. I will take responsibility for adding my negative comments about Vaj where they were not necessary. After all, the post was about Jerry Jarvis and not a response to Vaj. So therefore, as I said earlier, it may have been inappropriate I was confused and angry about the fact that no one here seemed to challenge Vaj on his facts for so long, that I felt compelled to say something and may have over reacted. But, be clear... I am not a movement true believer and did not make my comments to defend Maharishi or the movement. I just wanted the facts to be brought out and let the chips fall where they may. Vaj, You ignorant slut, What is wrong with you? And why do make this shit up? Its complete lies. Don't you know that Dr. Raju was MMY's personal physician for years and has been the head physician at a Maharishi ayurveda hospital in Delhi for many years? If your story had any truth in it, Dr. Raju would not be working at a Maharishi Ayurveda facility which uses the stolen formulas. He would have nothing to do with the TM movement or its branches because he would feel that MMY was a thief. But yet, there he is. Have you ever met Dr. Raju? Been to his hospital? Of course you haven't. Because if you had, you would know that as soon as you walk in the door, there is a huge picture of MMY and in Dr. Raju's office, same thing. If Dr. Raju thought MMY was a thief I don't think he would be sitting there with MMY's picture and greeting you with Jai Guru Dev. As usual, you just make these things up, and quote them as if they are facts. Then when confronted on your statements, you run away like a little girl and never respond when criticized. Vaj, you are a liar and have serious issues. Why do you have so much hate inside you? Vaj, You coward! As usual, no response when someone points out your lies! You love to pontificate your supposed knowledge, but you just make it up. Come on, lets debate or discuss the facts. Don't just run away like the coward you are. You know nothing of Balaraj or Raju's relationship with Maharishi. And yet you assume you know that Maharishi stole the formulas The same way you know that Maharishi poisoned Guru Dev, which I have already pointed out previously is a lie. Again I ask... why do you have so much hate in your heart that you have to try to hurt MMY's reputation any way you can. I have no problem if you have an opinion about who MMY was and what he has done. But why must you constantly make your opinion into supposed facts? So one more time... Whats wrong with you? Oh Yeah, that's right.. you have such a conscience! You lie, make shit up and have the nerve to say you have a conscience! And again for the record. MMY was NEVER a prime suspect in the supposed poisoning of Guru Dev. As I previously pointed out, I have been in Allahabad many times and interviewed the judge who handled Guru Dev';s will and many others associated with Shankaracharya ashram. None of them knew anything about this supposed poisoning, so how could MMY have been a prime suspect? You haven';t been there but speak as if you have been STOP MAKING SHIT UP!! Have you opinion, fine. But again I am wondering, why you must lie to prove that your point of view is the correct one? You must have been really hurt by someone as a child. I mean, with evidence and clear thinking like that, it's no wonder Vaj has no response! All this because Vaj wrote a few dozen words expressing his opinion on something MMY supposedly did~~stole medicines or formulas or whatever from Balraj M. That's called opinion guys, no matter how someone might express it. Jim and lurk, you feste and the others in the anti-Vaj camp definitely need a new spokesperson. Or not, your choice. But egging on someone like Richard who is clearly unstable isn't nice. Sal On May 26, 2011, at 6:29 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: Comparing the facts of richardnelson108, based on actual events he witnessed with Vaj's imaginings, and you call them equivalent? You recently said I had the intellectual depth of a turnip. I'm sorry but I cannot even grant you that much mental capacity. Your shriveled heart and blinding ego have created in you a spiritual moron.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: As I understand it Richard Nelson's sources were first hand sources who acutally were in a position to know some of the details which were alleged to have taken place. In other words, EXACTLY the same as Vaj's. His opinion is based on (he says) what he heard from a direct student of one of the parties involved. And yet you somehow give more credence to what Richard says. Could it possibly be because...wait for it...what Richard says (filtered through his own obvious agenda) conforms to what you want to believe (filtered through your own)? THERE HAVE BEEN NO FACTS PRESENTED. By anyone, on either side. All that's happened is a My sources are better than your sources pissing contest. I'm starting to wonder whether Jimbo is not the only person here whose intellect has devolved to the vegetable level. I have no horse in this race (or dick in this pissing contest). I DON'T GIVE A SHIT. All of this Ayurveda bullshit happened long after I'd walked away from the TMO, and if I hadn't it would have caused me to walk away when it appeared. From my point of view it's as much medicine as an African shaman shaking a rattle at someone. So WHO FUCKING CARES who stole what meaningless formula from who? The only reason I've chimed in is that people like you, Ray, who I used to respect, have managed to cause me to doubt the wisdom of doing so. What I've been seeing is like agenda gravitating to like. Nothing more. People who already believe (or want to believe) something tend to project credence onto the person who agrees with them. And then they declare that the person whose agenda they don't like has been proven wrong. And all the time not a single fact has been presented, on either side. If this is what TM produces in the way of intellect, I am not impressed. I doubt lurkers here are, either.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 26, 2011, at 7:32 AM, seventhray1 wrote: As I understand it Richard Nelson's sources were first hand sources who acutally were in a position to know some of the details which were alleged to have taken place. Is that anything like Christian groups who go to Israel and speak with people there who assure them that Mary was a virgin? Richard says he spoke directly with the lawyer who handled SBS's will, And SBS died over 50 years ago, right? And the lawyer who handled his will is still alive and kicking, eh? And still remembers various details? Right. and traveled to some of various places at issue and spoke with people who were contempories of SBS, and M. And of course all these contemporaries are still alive as well. Vaj's sources seem 2 or 3 steps removed from the events they are commenting on, and are never identified in any detail. Usually they are a student of so and so That's called opinion~~why is that so threatening? Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 26, 2011, at 7:41 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Sal, I will be glad to do this. But I will have to do it this evening when I have some time and if someone doesn't do it before then. The question will then be, are YOU willing to look at the evidence in any kind of objective way, or simply dismiss it as just some subjective view point? I'll do my best to look. But of course I may come to different conclusions. I have made this effort in the past, and you have never bothered you reply when evidence was presented that was contrary to your views. When asked about it later, you have said your participation in this forum is only for light banter and relaxation, and you don't care to engage in any serious talk. So, I would rather not waste my time if you are not going to be genuine participant. Here is that post~~I don't see any offer on your part, lurk. Did I miss something? On Mar 11, 2011, at 7:21 PM, seventhray1 wrote: That's what most or at least many find fascinating here, Barry. Why this is so difficult for lurk to grasp is beyond me. To use a phrase that's been used lately, maybe that's how you roll Sal. And maybe that's how Barry rolls. I guess I'll have to more closely examine what it is that bugs me about hearing the same story over and over again from a different angle. I mean the story starts off the same, but it always has the same finish. You evidently don't see inconsistency or hypocrisy in Barry's postings. I do. But quite honestly I don't see you running the tightest ship when it come to consistency or intellecual honesty. But as I said, maybe that's how you roll. lurk, I come on FFL for one reason~~I find it relaxing to share opinions and stories about something that was once a big part of most of our lives. That's it. I really don't come on to participate in fights or to put my posts through some kind of litmus test each and every time I write one. If someone finds them interesting and wants to respond, great. If not, I don't see what's so difficult about ignoring posts you find either boring or annoying or dishonest. Barry isn't likely to change his MO, anymore than you or I are. So haranguing him or anyone else over why and wherefore seems pointless. But, hey, maybe that's how *you* roll. Sal I gotta go now. Ciao. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: If this is what TM produces in the way of intellect, I am not impressed. I doubt lurkers here are, either. .. Not only unverifiable claims, but almost hysterical ones at that. Certainly angry ones, and out-of-control emotionally. Pretty interesting for people who claim to have been practicing the best form of meditation on the planet, and for decades. One of them -- the person who has posted the most gratuitous insults in this pissing contest actually claims to be enlightened. The point I have been making for years is that I don't see how *any* lurker on this forum could come away from the FFL experience having a positive view of TM and what it produces. Clearly, based on the TM supporters here, it produces people who are so thin-skinned and attached to their own beliefs that they have to spend the majority of their posts, week after week after week, insulting people who have committed the heinous sin of...wait for it...believing something different than they do. I'm sorry, but this seems to indicate to me that TM creates people who are *more* attached than any- one you could meet on the street, and *less* in control of their emotions. In the case of the person who claims that he's enlightened, I'm starting to believe that I was aiming far too high up the evolutionary ladder by comparing his intellect and thinking abilities to a turnip. Based on his recent posts I'm thinking more along the lines of athlete's foot fungus. :-) Following is an interesting post to SeriousSeekers.com Fellow Graceful, Light Filled Seekers, I think I may have found IT -- the fastest evolutionary, spiritual unfolding technique on the planet. As we all know, awakening and spiritual unfoldment appears once the soul has roasted, purified or unwound the densely and deeply packed intertwined samskaras built up after almost infinite births. And then theres the collective karma stuff too. As we have all experienced, when this stuff is roasted, it may pop like popcorn for a while: very unstable, chaotic, random, not following any sense of order or rationality, way overheated, etc. Or we can think of it as unwinding of deep multi-dimensional knots. When doing so, lots of mess all over the floor and the knots unwind. The faster the evolutionary and spiritual unfoldment process, the hotter, more random and irrational is the corn popping, the messier and sloppy the floor becomes with all the unwinding. ERGO, the fastest technique must also produce the messiest, most heated, irrational, sloppy, unstable, chaotic side effects. Well my friends, I have been lurking at a site called FFL whose posters have a long history with TM. And I have to say, I have never, ever, its not even close, seen a group of seekers so messed up, twisted, overheated, irrational, petty, sloppy and unstable as these guys. Even those who have not practiced TM for decades -- they too are bat shit crazy. Thus the effects of TM appear not only profoundly powerful, but also long lasting. the heavy purifiction and its side effects last long after the practice is stopped. It appears from the longevity of their postings, some 10 years, some 20 years back to older forums. Sp it appears that it may take 6-12 lifetimes of this incredibly distasteful, in your face anger, hostility, random, chaotic, sloppy behavior to roast all the samskaras and unwind all of the knots. But certainly this HELL for a dozen lifetimes is worth the eternal grace of full unfoldment. So I signed up. I am now practicing TM twice a day and ALREADY the purification process has begun. So F* you your f*u*ing lame assholes, join me on the awesome adventure -- it you are not too fing SUUPID and dense to get my beautifully laid out points. So STFU and lets finally get serious about full spiritual unfoldment -- or simply continue with your decaying head up your smelly ass. Your choice.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: If this is what TM produces in the way of intellect, I am not impressed. I doubt lurkers here are, either. .. Not only unverifiable claims, but almost hysterical ones at that. Certainly angry ones, and out-of-control emotionally. Pretty interesting for people who claim to have been practicing the best form of meditation on the planet, and for decades. One of them -- the person who has posted the most gratuitous insults in this pissing contest actually claims to be enlightened. The point I have been making for years is that I don't see how *any* lurker on this forum could come away from the FFL experience having a positive view of TM and what it produces. Clearly, based on the TM supporters here, it produces people who are so thin-skinned and attached to their own beliefs that they have to spend the majority of their posts, week after week after week, insulting people who have committed the heinous sin of...wait for it...believing something different than they do. I'm sorry, but this seems to indicate to me that TM creates people who are *more* attached than any- one you could meet on the street, and *less* in control of their emotions. In the case of the person who claims that he's enlightened, I'm starting to believe that I was aiming far too high up the evolutionary ladder by comparing his intellect and thinking abilities to a turnip. Based on his recent posts I'm thinking more along the lines of athlete's foot fungus. :-) Following is an interesting post to SeriousSeekers.com Fellow Graceful, Light Filled Seekers, I think I may have found IT -- the fastest evolutionary, spiritual unfolding technique on the planet. As we all know, awakening and spiritual unfoldment appears once the soul has roasted, purified or unwound the densely and deeply packed intertwined samskaras built up after almost infinite births. And then theres the collective karma stuff too. As we have all experienced, when this stuff is roasted, it may pop like popcorn for a while: very unstable, chaotic, random, not following any sense of order or rationality, way overheated, etc. Or we can think of it as unwinding of deep multi-dimensional knots. When doing so, lots of mess all over the floor and the knots unwind. The faster the evolutionary and spiritual unfoldment process, the hotter, more random and irrational is the corn popping, the messier and sloppy the floor becomes with all the unwinding. ERGO, the fastest technique must also produce the messiest, most heated, irrational, sloppy, unstable, chaotic side effects. Well my friends, I have been lurking at a site called FFL whose posters have a long history with TM. And I have to say, I have never, ever, its not even close, seen a group of seekers so messed up, twisted, overheated, irrational, petty, sloppy and unstable as these guys. Even those who have not practiced TM for decades -- they too are bat shit crazy. Thus the effects of TM appear not only profoundly powerful, but also long lasting. the heavy purifiction and its side effects last long after the practice is stopped. It appears from the longevity of their postings, some 10 years, some 20 years back to older forums. Sp it appears that it may take 6-12 lifetimes of this incredibly distasteful, in your face anger, hostility, random, chaotic, sloppy behavior to roast all the samskaras and unwind all of the knots. But certainly this HELL for a dozen lifetimes is worth the eternal grace of full unfoldment. So I signed up. I am now practicing TM twice a day and ALREADY the purification process has begun. So F* you your f*u*ing lame assholes, join me on the awesome adventure -- it you are not too fing SUUPID and dense to get my beautifully laid out points. So STFU and lets finally get serious about full spiritual unfoldment -- or simply continue with your decaying head up your smelly ass. Your choice. Some reply comments to this post at SeriousSeekeers.com #1 I checked out FFL as you suggested. Wow, I never knew what Ekhart Tolle meant by pain body until now. These folks are in serious internal pain. its almost too painful to watch. #2 Are these people of 24/7 medical watch? I sure hope so. For their sakes and those that ma be around them. These are walking time bombs. Are they all ex postal employees? #3 I heard at the end of their intro course they are given syringes filled with Thorazin to ease the symptoms. Some get a 24 hour patch I hear -- they are so bonkers #4 Are these people functional at all? Who feeds and clothes them? And takes them to the bathroom (jeez I don't even want to begin to think about what their bathrooms must look an smell like). maybe we should form a Seva project to help these
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: Following is an interesting post to SeriousSeekers.com Fellow Graceful, Light Filled Seekers, I think I may have found IT -- the fastest evolutionary, spiritual unfolding technique on the planet. As we all know, awakening and spiritual unfoldment appears once the soul has roasted, purified or unwound the densely and deeply packed intertwined samskaras built up after almost infinite births. And then theres the collective karma stuff too. As we have all experienced, when this stuff is roasted, it may pop like popcorn for a while: very unstable, chaotic, random, not following any sense of order or rationality, way overheated, etc. Or we can think of it as unwinding of deep multi-dimensional knots. When doing so, lots of mess all over the floor and the knots unwind. The faster the evolutionary and spiritual unfoldment process, the hotter, more random and irrational is the corn popping, the messier and sloppy the floor becomes with all the unwinding. ERGO, the fastest technique must also produce the messiest, most heated, irrational, sloppy, unstable, chaotic side effects. Well my friends, I have been lurking at a site called FFL whose posters have a long history with TM. And I have to say, I have never, ever, its not even close, seen a group of seekers so messed up, twisted, overheated, irrational, petty, sloppy and unstable as these guys. Even those who have not practiced TM for decades -- they too are bat shit crazy. Thus the effects of TM appear not only profoundly powerful, but also long lasting. the heavy purifiction and its side effects last long after the practice is stopped. It appears from the longevity of their postings, some 10 years, some 20 years back to older forums. Sp it appears that it may take 6-12 lifetimes of this incredibly distasteful, in your face anger, hostility, random, chaotic, sloppy behavior to roast all the samskaras and unwind all of the knots. But certainly this HELL for a dozen lifetimes is worth the eternal grace of full unfoldment. So I signed up. I am now practicing TM twice a day and ALREADY the purification process has begun. So F* you your f*u*ing lame assholes, join me on the awesome adventure -- it you are not too fing SUUPID and dense to get my beautifully laid out points. So STFU and lets finally get serious about full spiritual unfoldment -- or simply continue with your decaying head up your smelly ass. Your choice. Some reply comments to this post at SeriousSeekeers.com #1 I checked out FFL as you suggested. Wow, I never knew what Ekhart Tolle meant by pain body until now. These folks are in serious internal pain. its almost too painful to watch. #2 Are these people of 24/7 medical watch? I sure hope so. For their sakes and those that ma be around them. These are walking time bombs. Are they all ex postal employees? #3 I heard at the end of their intro course they are given syringes filled with Thorazin to ease the symptoms. Some get a 24 hour patch I hear -- they are so bonkers #4 Are these people functional at all? Who feeds and clothes them? And takes them to the bathroom (jeez I don't even want to begin to think about what their bathrooms must look an smell like). maybe we should form a Seva project to help these souls out a bit. Give them a little bit of joy and help put a smile on their face. For some, its probably been decades. Funny stuff, Tart. I particularly liked Are they all ex postal employees? because the most rational and restrained person on the forum these days *is* an ex US Postal Service employee. :-) We never hear from lurkers. Duh. That's why they're called lurkers. But what must they THINK of this zoo? I mean, we're all used to it. Whether we're still part of the TM organization or not, if we were at one point (as opposed to those here who never were, and just gazed at it from the periphery, never got involved, and lived on their fantasies of what it was like), we have seen this kinda crazy so long and so often that we've almost come to ignore it as normal. It isn't. It's crazy. People arguing who's right and who's wrong about stuff that can never be proven either, because it's all just opinion. People spending well over half of their posts each week trying to get the people they don't like. And that's leaving out the couple of people who claim to be fuckin' ENLIGHTENED, ferchrissakes, and then get their buttons pushed so easily that they spend dozens of posts acting out pre-adolescent revenge fantasies. Place is a fuckin' ZOO.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Well if yet more unverifiable claims~~ie opinions~~ are what constitutes a very strong case in *your* opinion, feste...I sure hope I never have you on my side of the defense table, so to speak. Sal On May 26, 2011, at 7:50 AM, feste37 wrote: Have you even read the posts by Richard you quote here? He presents a very strong case against all the accusations made by Vaj. Read it. All you do is try to smear him as unstable, which is plainly not the case. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: Here are Richard's facts, Jim, or at least all the ones I've seen lately~~perhaps you could post the ones I've missed: Hi, Richard here. Since this was originally written to me, I thought I would chime in. I will take responsibility for adding my negative comments about Vaj where they were not necessary. After all, the post was about Jerry Jarvis and not a response to Vaj. So therefore, as I said earlier, it may have been inappropriate I was confused and angry about the fact that no one here seemed to challenge Vaj on his facts for so long, that I felt compelled to say something and may have over reacted. But, be clear... I am not a movement true believer and did not make my comments to defend Maharishi or the movement. I just wanted the facts to be brought out and let the chips fall where they may. Vaj, You ignorant slut, What is wrong with you? And why do make this shit up? Its complete lies. Don't you know that Dr. Raju was MMY's personal physician for years and has been the head physician at a Maharishi ayurveda hospital in Delhi for many years? If your story had any truth in it, Dr. Raju would not be working at a Maharishi Ayurveda facility which uses the stolen formulas. He would have nothing to do with the TM movement or its branches because he would feel that MMY was a thief. But yet, there he is. Have you ever met Dr. Raju? Been to his hospital? Of course you haven't. Because if you had, you would know that as soon as you walk in the door, there is a huge picture of MMY and in Dr. Raju's office, same thing. If Dr. Raju thought MMY was a thief I don't think he would be sitting there with MMY's picture and greeting you with Jai Guru Dev. As usual, you just make these things up, and quote them as if they are facts. Then when confronted on your statements, you run away like a little girl and never respond when criticized. Vaj, you are a liar and have serious issues. Why do you have so much hate inside you? Vaj, You coward! As usual, no response when someone points out your lies! You love to pontificate your supposed knowledge, but you just make it up. Come on, lets debate or discuss the facts. Don't just run away like the coward you are. You know nothing of Balaraj or Raju's relationship with Maharishi. And yet you assume you know that Maharishi stole the formulas The same way you know that Maharishi poisoned Guru Dev, which I have already pointed out previously is a lie. Again I ask... why do you have so much hate in your heart that you have to try to hurt MMY's reputation any way you can. I have no problem if you have an opinion about who MMY was and what he has done. But why must you constantly make your opinion into supposed facts? So one more time... Whats wrong with you? Oh Yeah, that's right.. you have such a conscience! You lie, make shit up and have the nerve to say you have a conscience! And again for the record. MMY was NEVER a prime suspect in the supposed poisoning of Guru Dev. As I previously pointed out, I have been in Allahabad many times and interviewed the judge who handled Guru Dev';s will and many others associated with Shankaracharya ashram. None of them knew anything about this supposed poisoning, so how could MMY have been a prime suspect? You haven';t been there but speak as if you have been STOP MAKING SHIT UP!! Have you opinion, fine. But again I am wondering, why you must lie to prove that your point of view is the correct one? You must have been really hurt by someone as a child. I mean, with evidence and clear thinking like that, it's no wonder Vaj has no response! All this because Vaj wrote a few dozen words expressing his opinion on something MMY supposedly did~~stole medicines or formulas or whatever from Balraj M. That's called opinion guys, no matter how someone might express it. Jim and lurk, you feste and the others in the anti-Vaj camp definitely need a new spokesperson. Or not, your choice. But egging on someone like Richard who is clearly unstable isn't nice. Sal On May 26, 2011, at 6:29 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: Comparing the facts of richardnelson108, based on actual events he witnessed with Vaj's imaginings, and you call them equivalent? You recently said I had the intellectual depth of a turnip. I'm sorry but I cannot even grant you that much mental
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: As I understand it Richard Nelson's sources were first hand sources who acutally were in a position to know some of the details which were alleged to have taken place. In other words, EXACTLY the same as Vaj's. His opinion is based on (he says) what he heard from a direct student of one of the parties involved. Are you aware of the pecking order of sources? There are primary sources, and then there are secondard sources. I believe most of Richard's sources are primary sources. Not the the case with Vaj. Dismiss this protocal if you wish. And yet you somehow give more credence to what Richard says. Could it possibly be because...wait for it...what Richard says (filtered through his own obvious agenda) conforms to what you want to believe (filtered through your own)? You always surprise me in this way. This is or has become one of your stock in trade accusations. But excuse me if I don't bite on it. You might want to look in the mirror on this one. THERE HAVE BEEN NO FACTS PRESENTED. By anyone, on either side. All that's happened is a My sources are better than your sources pissing contest. I'm starting to wonder whether Jimbo is not the only person here whose intellect has devolved to the vegetable level. Ta Da! The insult! Medicore IMO as insults go. Look, if you wish to put all sources on the same level of credibility, i.e. an anonymous source as opposed to an identified source, feel free do so. But unfortunately, and I can guarantee this, should there be an issue that would affect you in a significant way, and where facts needed to be presented which would affect an outcome in which you had a stake, you would care very much. I have no horse in this race (or dick in this pissing contest). I DON'T GIVE A SHIT. All of this Ayurveda bullshit happened long after I'd walked away from the TMO, and if I hadn't it would have caused me to walk away when it appeared. From my point of view it's as much medicine as an African shaman shaking a rattle at someone. So WHO FUCKING CARES who stole what meaningless formula from who? Has it ever occurred to you, that anyone who has to regularly proclaim, this. Nay SCREAM it as often as you do, might just not be so detached as they claim to be. The only reason I've chimed in is that people like you, Ray, who I used to respect, have managed to cause me to doubt the wisdom of doing so. Doubt is sometimes a good thing. Right? What I've been seeing is like agenda gravitating to like. Nothing more. People who already believe (or want to believe) something tend to project credence onto the person who agrees with them. And then they declare that the person whose agenda they don't like has been proven wrong. And all the time not a single fact has been presented, on either side. Richard Nelson gave accounts that seemed more credible. He identified them, gave places. Did not give names or dates as far as Iknow. He sources seemed more credible to me. If you wish too ascribe all sorts of TB motives to me for doing so, be my guest. All I can say again, is that should there a matter in which the outcome mattered to you, and which relied on the credibility of sources, then you may have a different attitude. If this is what TM produces in the way of intellect, I am not impressed. I doubt lurkers here are, either. Ah, I am superior flourish. Nicely done.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
feste37: Vaj reminds me of the wacko political right who will say anything to put their Democratic enemies in a bad light... Compared to the left-wing radicals on FFL, Vaj seems to be pretty mainstream - he can't stand people who take up for the Islamic terrorists. Where I come from, silence usually indicates agreement. Ed Schultz has been suspended from MSNBC for calling conservative talk show host Laura Ingraham a right wing slut on his syndicated radio show... http://tinyurl.com/3cjp5nv
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On May 26, 2011, at 7:32 AM, seventhray1 wrote: As I understand it Richard Nelson's sources were first hand sources who acutally were in a position to know some of the details which were alleged to have taken place. Is that anything like Christian groups who go to Israel and speak with people there who assure them that Mary was a virgin? I don't think so. Richard says he spoke directly with the lawyer who handled SBS's will, And SBS died over 50 years ago, right? And the lawyer who handled his will is still alive and kicking, eh? And still remembers various details? Right. Perhaps he will provide some clarification. I think that would be in order. and traveled to some of various places at issue and spoke with people who were contempories of SBS, and M. And of course all these contemporaries are still alive as well. See above Vaj's sources seem 2 or 3 steps removed from the events they are commenting on, and are never identified in any detail. Usually they are a student of so and so That's called opinion~~why is that so threatening? Sal, It seems to me that our whole legal system is based on trying to arrive at the truth. So, whether it is a legal issue or a philosophical issue, I feel like I would like to arrive at what might be called the truth. If someone is making accusations of murder, of thievery, or impropieties, then those are, in my mind serious accusations, and should be substantiated. And if someone else is able to demonstrate that this accusations may have serious flaws, then that also is of interest to me. Perhaps to you, they are not important. But as always, have something come up in which you have a stake, then suddenly you are likely to become a strong advocate for wanting to arrive at the truth
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Both Vaj and the Turq are regular liars on this (and probably other TM-related forums). In their pissing-contest on who's best liar Vaj is slightly ahead. Their personal issues are enormous, perhaps never treatable in this life. And they're both socalled Buddhists. As the american's say: Go figure. Not only are both of them liars but they seem to have a total misunderstanding of the function of a Guru. They are the classic case of cultish worship gone sour. They are mature in years but very infantile in their spiritual growth. They came to spirituality expecting a special status in the outer world, they project their imperfections on to the Guru not realizing that perfection is not possible in the outside world. Their ego gets hurt and now they spend the rest of their lives in deceit, manipulation and harassment of real seekers who understand that perfection cannot be found outside of themselves, that spirituality is about trust and faith in the supreme consciousness and spirituality is nothing but letting go of expectation of happiness and perfection in the outside world and reveling in the inner contentment and in just being a witness to the outer dualities.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: As I understand it Richard Nelson's sources were first hand sources who acutally were in a position to know some of the details which were alleged to have taken place. In other words, EXACTLY the same as Vaj's. His opinion is based on (he says) what he heard from a direct student of one of the parties involved. Are you aware of the pecking order of sources? There are primary sources, and then there are secondard sources. And none of EITHER has been cited in this pissing contest. The only thing that has happened is that someone has *claimed* to have heard something from a source. None of the actual sources have been quoted, and no way of contacting them to get their opinion first-hand has been provided. I believe most of Richard's sources are primary sources. As Sal pointed out, that's fairly questionable. He has not replied to how he met the lawyer he claims handled SBS's will over fifty years ago, or named him. He has similarly given no contact data for any of his supposed sources. I honestly think that you believe what you want to believe, and that's the end of it. There have been neither primary nor secondary sources involved in this discussion, only *claims* of what they might have said by two people. I don't trust EITHER of them. I won't believe what EITHER of them say until they provide me with contact information so that I can contact their supposed source myself and ask them directly. And even THEN what have I got? Someone's OPINION. Not fact. Not the the case with Vaj. Dismiss this protocal if you wish. I'm dismissing you, for the reasons I state above. And yet you somehow give more credence to what Richard says. Could it possibly be because...wait for it...what Richard says (filtered through his own obvious agenda) conforms to what you want to believe (filtered through your own)? You always surprise me in this way. This is or has become one of your stock in trade accusations. I think it's also accurate. You don't even know the difference between a source and a claim of a source, as indicated above. And you want me to believe that you don't have any *bias* in this? Puhlze. But excuse me if I don't bite on it. You might want to look in the mirror on this one. I have stated my position on the bullshit being argued about. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT. I think that Ayurveda is and has always been a scam. Thus I don't care who thought up some detail of the scam first. THERE HAVE BEEN NO FACTS PRESENTED. By anyone, on either side. All that's happened is a My sources are better than your sources pissing contest. I'm starting to wonder whether Jimbo is not the only person here whose intellect has devolved to the vegetable level. Ta Da! The insult! Medicore IMO as insults go. Look, if you wish to put all sources on the same level of credibility, i.e. an anonymous source as opposed to an identified source, feel free do so. If you wish to place a *claim* of a source on the same level as an actual source, by all means do so. But don't expect me to respect you when you do. I don't believe EITHER of them. Get it? Both Vaj and Richard are FAR too emotional and riding the hobbyhorse of agenda for me to take anything EITHER of them says as valid just because they say it. You, on the other hand, do. And you think I'm the one who doesn't understand? But unfortunately, and I can guarantee this, should there be an issue that would affect you in a significant way, and where facts needed to be presented which would affect an outcome in which you had a stake, you would care very much. Still harping on the primary vs. secondary source red herring? NO SOURCES HAVE BEEN PRESENTED. There have only been *claims* of what sources made, by two people who are both clearly overemotional about the issue. I don't believe a word either of them says. And I'm kinda curious as to why you do. I have no horse in this race (or dick in this pissing contest). I DON'T GIVE A SHIT. All of this Ayurveda bullshit happened long after I'd walked away from the TMO, and if I hadn't it would have caused me to walk away when it appeared. From my point of view it's as much medicine as an African shaman shaking a rattle at someone. So WHO FUCKING CARES who stole what meaningless formula from who? Has it ever occurred to you, that anyone who has to regularly proclaim, this. Nay SCREAM it as often as you do, might just not be so detached as they claim to be. No. I really don't give a shit. Ayurveda has never touched my life, and never will. I've never bought a single remedy and never will. I think it's a scam. Why would I care who invented the scam first? The only reason I've chimed in is that people like
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: On May 26, 2011, at 7:41 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Sal, I will be glad to do this. But I will have to do it this evening when I have some time and if someone doesn't do it before then. The question will then be, are YOU willing to look at the evidence in any kind of objective way, or simply dismiss it as just some subjective view point? I'll do my best to look. But of course I may come to different conclusions. I have made this effort in the past, and you have never bothered you reply when evidence was presented that was contrary to your views. When asked about it later, you have said your participation in this forum is only for light banter and relaxation, and you don't care to engage in any serious talk. So, I would rather not waste my time if you are not going to be genuine participant. Here is that post~~I don't see any offer on your part, lurk. Did I miss something? Sal, if you wish me to bring up an instance where you called me a gulliable fool, or idiot for believing something that you evidently did not care to believe, but which turned out to be 100% true, I will be glad to do so. In that instance you chose to absent yourself from further discussion once your position became untenable. It is fine to participate, But I feel that if you state opinions, you may sometimes be called to defend or clarify those opinions. And I happen to feel that it is a little lame to suddenly decide that one doesn't want to participate to that extent. Certainly there are exceptions. In MY opinion it is sometimes On Mar 11, 2011, at 7:21 PM, seventhray1 wrote: That's what most or at least many find fascinating here, Barry. Why this is so difficult for lurk to grasp is beyond me. To use a phrase that's been used lately, maybe that's how you roll Sal. And maybe that's how Barry rolls. I guess I'll have to more closely examine what it is that bugs me about hearing the same story over and over again from a different angle. I mean the story starts off the same, but it always has the same finish. You evidently don't see inconsistency or hypocrisy in Barry's postings. I do. But quite honestly I don't see you running the tightest ship when it come to consistency or intellecual honesty. But as I said, maybe that's how you roll. lurk, I come on FFL for one reason~~I find it relaxing to share opinions and stories about something that was once a big part of most of our lives. That's it. I really don't come on to participate in fights or to put my posts through some kind of litmus test each and every time I write one. If someone finds them interesting and wants to respond, great. If not, I don't see what's so difficult about ignoring posts you find either boring or annoying or dishonest. Barry isn't likely to change his MO, anymore than you or I are. So haranguing him or anyone else over why and wherefore seems pointless. But, hey, maybe that's how *you* roll. Sal I gotta go now. Ciao. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: Following is an interesting post to SeriousSeekers.com Fellow Graceful, Light Filled Seekers, I think I may have found IT -- the fastest evolutionary, spiritual unfolding technique on the planet. As we all know, awakening and spiritual unfoldment appears once the soul has roasted, purified or unwound the densely and deeply packed intertwined samskaras built up after almost infinite births. And then theres the collective karma stuff too. As we have all experienced, when this stuff is roasted, it may pop like popcorn for a while: very unstable, chaotic, random, not following any sense of order or rationality, way overheated, etc. Or we can think of it as unwinding of deep multi-dimensional knots. When doing so, lots of mess all over the floor and the knots unwind. The faster the evolutionary and spiritual unfoldment process, the hotter, more random and irrational is the corn popping, the messier and sloppy the floor becomes with all the unwinding. ERGO, the fastest technique must also produce the messiest, most heated, irrational, sloppy, unstable, chaotic side effects. Well my friends, I have been lurking at a site called FFL whose posters have a long history with TM. And I have to say, I have never, ever, its not even close, seen a group of seekers so messed up, twisted, overheated, irrational, petty, sloppy and unstable as these guys. Even those who have not practiced TM for decades -- they too are bat shit crazy. Thus the effects of TM appear not only profoundly powerful, but also long lasting. the heavy purifiction and its side effects last long after the practice is stopped. It appears from the longevity of their postings, some 10 years, some 20 years back to older forums. Sp it appears that it may take 6-12 lifetimes of this incredibly distasteful, in your face anger, hostility, random, chaotic, sloppy behavior to roast all the samskaras and unwind all of the knots. But certainly this HELL for a dozen lifetimes is worth the eternal grace of full unfoldment. So I signed up. I am now practicing TM twice a day and ALREADY the purification process has begun. So F* you your f*u*ing lame assholes, join me on the awesome adventure -- it you are not too fing SUUPID and dense to get my beautifully laid out points. So STFU and lets finally get serious about full spiritual unfoldment -- or simply continue with your decaying head up your smelly ass. Your choice. Some reply comments to this post at SeriousSeekeers.com #1 I checked out FFL as you suggested. Wow, I never knew what Ekhart Tolle meant by pain body until now. These folks are in serious internal pain. its almost too painful to watch. #2 Are these people of 24/7 medical watch? I sure hope so. For their sakes and those that ma be around them. These are walking time bombs. Are they all ex postal employees? #3 I heard at the end of their intro course they are given syringes filled with Thorazin to ease the symptoms. Some get a 24 hour patch I hear -- they are so bonkers #4 Are these people functional at all? Who feeds and clothes them? And takes them to the bathroom (jeez I don't even want to begin to think about what their bathrooms must look an smell like). maybe we should form a Seva project to help these souls out a bit. Give them a little bit of joy and help put a smile on their face. For some, its probably been decades. Funny stuff, Tart. I particularly liked Are they all ex postal employees? because the most rational and restrained person on the forum these days *is* an ex US Postal Service employee. :-) We never hear from lurkers. Duh. That's why they're called lurkers. But what must they THINK of this zoo? I mean, we're all used to it. Whether we're still part of the TM organization or not, if we were at one point (as opposed to those here who never were, and just gazed at it from the periphery, never got involved, and lived on their fantasies of what it was like), we have seen this kinda crazy so long and so often that we've almost come to ignore it as normal. It isn't. It's crazy. People arguing who's right and who's wrong about stuff that can never be proven either, because it's all just opinion. People spending well over half of their posts each week trying to get the people they don't like. And that's leaving out the couple of people who claim to be fuckin' ENLIGHTENED, ferchrissakes, and then get their buttons pushed so easily that they spend dozens of posts acting out pre-adolescent revenge fantasies. Place is a fuckin' ZOO. I am think of starting
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On May 26, 2011, at 10:16 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Sal, It seems to me that our whole legal system is based on trying to arrive at the truth. It is, but this is just a discussion. So, whether it is a legal issue or a philosophical issue, I feel like I would like to arrive at what might be called the truth. If someone is making accusations of murder, of thievery, or impropieties, then those are, in my mind serious accusations, and should be substantiated. The murder accusation I believe applies to some kind of mercy-killing as GD was in a lot of pain and asked for some strong medication, right? I don't know why someone would call that murder. Sounds to me like a provocation that you and others keep falling for. And I also find it interesting that he~~supposedly~~didn't ask for some AV concoction. And if someone else is able to demonstrate that this accusations may have serious flaws, then that also is of interest to me. Perhaps to you, they are not important. Again, the old gratuitous insult. Something that id becoming your specialty, lurk. But as always, have something come up in which you have a stake, then suddenly you are likely to become a strong advocate for wanting to arrive at the truth Yes, I choose my battles. Don't you? Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: Some reply comments to this post at SeriousSeekeers.com #1 I checked out FFL as you suggested. Wow, I never knew what Ekhart Tolle meant by pain body until now. These folks are in serious internal pain. its almost too painful to watch. #2 Are these people of 24/7 medical watch? I sure hope so. For their sakes and those that ma be around them. These are walking time bombs. Are they all ex postal employees? #3 I heard at the end of their intro course they are given syringes filled with Thorazin to ease the symptoms. Some get a 24 hour patch I hear -- they are so bonkers #4 Are these people functional at all? Who feeds and clothes them? And takes them to the bathroom (jeez I don't even want to begin to think about what their bathrooms must look an smell like). maybe we should form a Seva project to help these souls out a bit. Give them a little bit of joy and help put a smile on their face. For some, its probably been decades. Wow these comments are so drastic I'm not sure why you would even care to post it here. These comments are not from serious seekers but very ordinary seekers. A serious seeker is not concerned about the pain and imperfections of others, once a seeker is mature his own pain and imperfections are so clear that his only purpose is to then work on how he could be free. He feels like his wounds are now infected and that he is in dire need of a surgery to remove it as soon as possible. All his time is then spent in looking for a cure. And once this amazing transformation takes place he suddenly realizes that there is nothing wrong with the world !!! The world is perfect and any pain and suffering he saw in the world was merely his projection !! I thank the grace and love of my beloved Guru Ammachi for turning me into a serious seeker several years back and I hope the same for the seekers on SeriousSeeker.com. Also it's quite clear that the comments posted by tart are more appropriate for Ordinary Seeker.com, I have been there and done that. Ordinary seekers usually are newbie's to spirituality, they hear about these excellent values in spirituality, love, compassion and then the first thing they start doing is projecting it on to others. That world is a selfish place, their friends and family are selfish, or that certain other seekers need to be more loving and compassionate or that George Bush needs to be more loving. They don't realize that spiritual values are only meant to be for Oneself and that they don't apply to others or don't even apply at all. In fact true love and compassion is only possible only when oneself is free of all pain within, true love and compassion doesn't necessarily mean talking nicely and kindly as people like tartbrain project or they have nothing to do with following values like peace, compassion and non-violent by pseudo-spiritualist like Gandhi, MLK or Dolly Lama. True love and compassion means the right action, at the right place and at the right time. This is only possible when one is perfectly content, free of any pain and suffering inside, free of projecting perfection outside of oneself. This will look intricately difficult if one's own pain is unresolved or it will be like a child's play for one who is totally established in their inner self. Don't look to people like tart who project the values of peace, happiness and love unto others and fake values like non-violence and peace.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
In reality there is no truth. There is no truth in reality. There is no reality that can be true. There is only opinion. All opinions are equal in value. You are a troll. Vaj is a troll. You support each other in trollness. You opinions don't matter here. Your opinions don't matter at all. No one here really cares what you think. Welcome to the reality of FFL. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: Following is an interesting post to SeriousSeekers.com Fellow Graceful, Light Filled Seekers, I think I may have found IT -- the fastest evolutionary, spiritual unfolding technique on the planet. As we all know, awakening and spiritual unfoldment appears once the soul has roasted, purified or unwound the densely and deeply packed intertwined samskaras built up after almost infinite births. And then theres the collective karma stuff too. As we have all experienced, when this stuff is roasted, it may pop like popcorn for a while: very unstable, chaotic, random, not following any sense of order or rationality, way overheated, etc. Or we can think of it as unwinding of deep multi-dimensional knots. When doing so, lots of mess all over the floor and the knots unwind. The faster the evolutionary and spiritual unfoldment process, the hotter, more random and irrational is the corn popping, the messier and sloppy the floor becomes with all the unwinding. ERGO, the fastest technique must also produce the messiest, most heated, irrational, sloppy, unstable, chaotic side effects. Well my friends, I have been lurking at a site called FFL whose posters have a long history with TM. And I have to say, I have never, ever, its not even close, seen a group of seekers so messed up, twisted, overheated, irrational, petty, sloppy and unstable as these guys. Even those who have not practiced TM for decades -- they too are bat shit crazy. Thus the effects of TM appear not only profoundly powerful, but also long lasting. the heavy purifiction and its side effects last long after the practice is stopped. It appears from the longevity of their postings, some 10 years, some 20 years back to older forums. Sp it appears that it may take 6-12 lifetimes of this incredibly distasteful, in your face anger, hostility, random, chaotic, sloppy behavior to roast all the samskaras and unwind all of the knots. But certainly this HELL for a dozen lifetimes is worth the eternal grace of full unfoldment. So I signed up. I am now practicing TM twice a day and ALREADY the purification process has begun. So F* you your f*u*ing lame assholes, join me on the awesome adventure -- it you are not too fing SUUPID and dense to get my beautifully laid out points. So STFU and lets finally get serious about full spiritual unfoldment -- or simply continue with your decaying head up your smelly ass. Your choice. Some reply comments to this post at SeriousSeekeers.com #1 I checked out FFL as you suggested. Wow, I never knew what Ekhart Tolle meant by pain body until now. These folks are in serious internal pain. its almost too painful to watch. #2 Are these people of 24/7 medical watch? I sure hope so. For their sakes and those that ma be around them. These are walking time bombs. Are they all ex postal employees? #3 I heard at the end of their intro course they are given syringes filled with Thorazin to ease the symptoms. Some get a 24 hour patch I hear -- they are so bonkers #4 Are these people functional at all? Who feeds and clothes them? And takes them to the bathroom (jeez I don't even want to begin to think about what their bathrooms must look an smell like). maybe we should form a Seva project to help these souls out a bit. Give them a little bit of joy and help put a smile on their face. For some, its probably been decades. Funny stuff, Tart. I particularly liked Are they all ex postal employees? because the most rational and restrained person on the forum these days *is* an ex US Postal Service employee. :-) We never hear from lurkers. Duh. That's why they're called lurkers. But what must they THINK of this zoo? I mean, we're all used to it. Whether we're still part of the TM organization or not, if we were at one point (as opposed to those here who never were, and just gazed at it from the periphery, never got involved, and lived on their fantasies of what it was like), we have seen this kinda crazy so long and so often that we've almost come to ignore it as normal. It isn't. It's crazy. People arguing who's right and who's wrong about stuff that can never be proven either, because it's all just opinion. People spending well over half of their posts each
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: Following is an interesting post to SeriousSeekers.com Fellow Graceful, Light Filled Seekers, I think I may have found IT -- the fastest evolutionary, spiritual unfolding technique on the planet. As we all know, awakening and spiritual unfoldment appears once the soul has roasted, purified or unwound the densely and deeply packed intertwined samskaras built up after almost infinite births. And then theres the collective karma stuff too. As we have all experienced, when this stuff is roasted, it may pop like popcorn for a while: very unstable, chaotic, random, not following any sense of order or rationality, way overheated, etc. Or we can think of it as unwinding of deep multi-dimensional knots. When doing so, lots of mess all over the floor and the knots unwind. The faster the evolutionary and spiritual unfoldment process, the hotter, more random and irrational is the corn popping, the messier and sloppy the floor becomes with all the unwinding. ERGO, the fastest technique must also produce the messiest, most heated, irrational, sloppy, unstable, chaotic side effects. Well my friends, I have been lurking at a site called FFL whose posters have a long history with TM. And I have to say, I have never, ever, its not even close, seen a group of seekers so messed up, twisted, overheated, irrational, petty, sloppy and unstable as these guys. Even those who have not practiced TM for decades -- they too are bat shit crazy. Thus the effects of TM appear not only profoundly powerful, but also long lasting. the heavy purifiction and its side effects last long after the practice is stopped. It appears from the longevity of their postings, some 10 years, some 20 years back to older forums. Sp it appears that it may take 6-12 lifetimes of this incredibly distasteful, in your face anger, hostility, random, chaotic, sloppy behavior to roast all the samskaras and unwind all of the knots. But certainly this HELL for a dozen lifetimes is worth the eternal grace of full unfoldment. So I signed up. I am now practicing TM twice a day and ALREADY the purification process has begun. So F* you your f*u*ing lame assholes, join me on the awesome adventure -- it you are not too fing SUUPID and dense to get my beautifully laid out points. So STFU and lets finally get serious about full spiritual unfoldment -- or simply continue with your decaying head up your smelly ass. Your choice. Some reply comments to this post at SeriousSeekeers.com #1 I checked out FFL as you suggested. Wow, I never knew what Ekhart Tolle meant by pain body until now. These folks are in serious internal pain. its almost too painful to watch. #2 Are these people of 24/7 medical watch? I sure hope so. For their sakes and those that ma be around them. These are walking time bombs. Are they all ex postal employees? #3 I heard at the end of their intro course they are given syringes filled with Thorazin to ease the symptoms. Some get a 24 hour patch I hear -- they are so bonkers #4 Are these people functional at all? Who feeds and clothes them? And takes them to the bathroom (jeez I don't even want to begin to think about what their bathrooms must look an smell like). maybe we should form a Seva project to help these souls out a bit. Give them a little bit of joy and help put a smile on their face. For some, its probably been decades. Wow these comments are so drastic I'm not sure why you would even care to post it here. These comments are not from serious seekers but very ordinary seekers. A serious seeker is not concerned about the pain and imperfections of others, once a seeker is mature his own pain and imperfections are so clear that his only purpose is to then work on how he could be free. He feels like his wounds are now infected and that he is in dire need of a surgery to remove it as soon as possible. All his time is then spent in looking for a cure. And once this amazing transformation takes place he suddenly realizes that there is nothing wrong with the world !!! The world is perfect and any pain and suffering he saw in the world was merely his projection !! I thank the grace and love of my beloved Guru Ammachi for turning me into a serious seeker several years back and I hope the same for the seekers on SeriousSeeker.com.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
You've been harping on this one for years lurk.. it evidently got to you. So sure, go ahead and bring up the claim and show me how wrong I was. Sal On May 26, 2011, at 10:25 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Sal, if you wish me to bring up an instance where you called me a gulliable fool, or idiot for believing something that you evidently did not care to believe, but which turned out to be 100% true, I will be glad to do so. In that instance you chose to absent yourself from further discussion once your position became untenable. It is fine to participate, But I feel that if you state opinions, you may sometimes be called to defend or clarify those opinions. And I happen to feel that it is a little lame to suddenly decide that one doesn't want to participate to that extent. Certainly there are exceptions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Funny stuff, Tart. I particularly liked Are they all ex postal employees? because the most rational and restrained person on the forum these days *is* an ex US Postal Service employee. :-) We never hear from lurkers. Duh. That's why they're called lurkers. But what must they THINK of this zoo? I mean, we're all used to it. Whether we're still part of the TM organization or not, if we were at one point (as opposed to those here who never were, and just gazed at it from the periphery, never got involved, and lived on their fantasies of what it was like), we have seen this kinda crazy so long and so often that we've almost come to ignore it as normal. It isn't. It's crazy. People arguing who's right and who's wrong about stuff that can never be proven either, because it's all just opinion. People spending well over half of their posts each week trying to get the people they don't like. And that's leaving out the couple of people who claim to be fuckin' ENLIGHTENED, ferchrissakes, and then get their buttons pushed so easily that they spend dozens of posts acting out pre-adolescent revenge fantasies. Place is a fuckin' ZOO. This is not a Zoo, this is the FFL Pub, a place for mature individuals - if you think it's a zoo and it's bothering you so much, may be you should rethink. Oh forgive me, obviously not, because of your lies day in and day out that you use to denounce spirituality and harass real seekers. You obviously have a lot invested in this zoo, may be you have opened a circus elsewhere? Is that all you have left now to defend your lies by making it into its all an opinion lie? What an interesting strategy to mask your deception and lies by masquerading it as an opinion - I'm amazed yet quite amused.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
I'm going to channel my inner Judy now..a poor imitation of her but I will try.. Look how Turqster, the trickster spins his deception. Now he says it's all opinion, both Vaj and Richardson are stating opinions and he doesn't side with either of them when he clearly sides with the liar Vaj, one trick parrot, the proponent of the Vakragita. He converts both lies and truth into opinions and subtly portrays that neither is any better since it's all opinion. He keeps repeating he doesn't believe in ayurveda but he is quite animated. Hats off to the Turqster, the Trickster, the master of deception. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: As I understand it Richard Nelson's sources were first hand sources who acutally were in a position to know some of the details which were alleged to have taken place. In other words, EXACTLY the same as Vaj's. His opinion is based on (he says) what he heard from a direct student of one of the parties involved. Are you aware of the pecking order of sources? There are primary sources, and then there are secondard sources. And none of EITHER has been cited in this pissing contest. The only thing that has happened is that someone has *claimed* to have heard something from a source. None of the actual sources have been quoted, and no way of contacting them to get their opinion first-hand has been provided. I believe most of Richard's sources are primary sources. As Sal pointed out, that's fairly questionable. He has not replied to how he met the lawyer he claims handled SBS's will over fifty years ago, or named him. He has similarly given no contact data for any of his supposed sources. I honestly think that you believe what you want to believe, and that's the end of it. There have been neither primary nor secondary sources involved in this discussion, only *claims* of what they might have said by two people. I don't trust EITHER of them. I won't believe what EITHER of them say until they provide me with contact information so that I can contact their supposed source myself and ask them directly. And even THEN what have I got? Someone's OPINION. Not fact. Not the the case with Vaj. Dismiss this protocal if you wish. I'm dismissing you, for the reasons I state above. And yet you somehow give more credence to what Richard says. Could it possibly be because...wait for it...what Richard says (filtered through his own obvious agenda) conforms to what you want to believe (filtered through your own)? You always surprise me in this way. This is or has become one of your stock in trade accusations. I think it's also accurate. You don't even know the difference between a source and a claim of a source, as indicated above. And you want me to believe that you don't have any *bias* in this? Puhlze. But excuse me if I don't bite on it. You might want to look in the mirror on this one. I have stated my position on the bullshit being argued about. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT. I think that Ayurveda is and has always been a scam. Thus I don't care who thought up some detail of the scam first. THERE HAVE BEEN NO FACTS PRESENTED. By anyone, on either side. All that's happened is a My sources are better than your sources pissing contest. I'm starting to wonder whether Jimbo is not the only person here whose intellect has devolved to the vegetable level. Ta Da! The insult! Medicore IMO as insults go. Look, if you wish to put all sources on the same level of credibility, i.e. an anonymous source as opposed to an identified source, feel free do so. If you wish to place a *claim* of a source on the same level as an actual source, by all means do so. But don't expect me to respect you when you do. I don't believe EITHER of them. Get it? Both Vaj and Richard are FAR too emotional and riding the hobbyhorse of agenda for me to take anything EITHER of them says as valid just because they say it. You, on the other hand, do. And you think I'm the one who doesn't understand? But unfortunately, and I can guarantee this, should there be an issue that would affect you in a significant way, and where facts needed to be presented which would affect an outcome in which you had a stake, you would care very much. Still harping on the primary vs. secondary source red herring? NO SOURCES HAVE BEEN PRESENTED. There have only been *claims* of what sources made, by two people who are both clearly overemotional about the issue. I don't believe a word either of them says. And I'm kinda curious as to why you do. I have no horse in this race (or dick in this pissing contest). I DON'T GIVE A SHIT. All of this
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@... wrote: You've been harping on this one for years lurk.. it evidently got to you. So sure, go ahead and bring up the claim and show me how wrong I was. Sal, Sorry I'm not biting. It did not get to me. But I am not going to waste my time in a one way discussion, or a discussion where if things get too uncomfortable, the other party bails. So, winning, duh, is not what I am looking for. On May 26, 2011, at 10:25 AM, seventhray1 wrote: Sal, if you wish me to bring up an instance where you called me a gulliable fool, or idiot for believing something that you evidently did not care to believe, but which turned out to be 100% true, I will be glad to do so. In that instance you chose to absent yourself from further discussion once your position became untenable. It is fine to participate, But I feel that if you state opinions, you may sometimes be called to defend or clarify those opinions. And I happen to feel that it is a little lame to suddenly decide that one doesn't want to participate to that extent. Certainly there are exceptions.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
On 05/26/2011 09:07 AM, Ravi Yogi wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoisebno_reply@... wrote: Funny stuff, Tart. I particularly liked Are they all ex postal employees? because the most rational and restrained person on the forum these days *is* an ex US Postal Service employee. :-) We never hear from lurkers. Duh. That's why they're called lurkers. But what must they THINK of this zoo? I mean, we're all used to it. Whether we're still part of the TM organization or not, if we were at one point (as opposed to those here who never were, and just gazed at it from the periphery, never got involved, and lived on their fantasies of what it was like), we have seen this kinda crazy so long and so often that we've almost come to ignore it as normal. It isn't. It's crazy. People arguing who's right and who's wrong about stuff that can never be proven either, because it's all just opinion. People spending well over half of their posts each week trying to get the people they don't like. And that's leaving out the couple of people who claim to be fuckin' ENLIGHTENED, ferchrissakes, and then get their buttons pushed so easily that they spend dozens of posts acting out pre-adolescent revenge fantasies. Place is a fuckin' ZOO. This is not a Zoo, this is the FFL Pub, a place for mature individuals - if you think it's a zoo and it's bothering you so much, may be you should rethink. Oh forgive me, obviously not, because of your lies day in and day out that you use to denounce spirituality and harass real seekers. You obviously have a lot invested in this zoo, may be you have opened a circus elsewhere? Is that all you have left now to defend your lies by making it into its all an opinion lie? What an interesting strategy to mask your deception and lies by masquerading it as an opinion - I'm amazed yet quite amused. Nah, it's the Funny Farm Lounge or did you just think it was a pub where the waitresses dressed up like nurses? And just what did you think was in that little cup you're drinking?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@... wrote: I am think of starting a skype interview site like Rick Bat Shit Crazy interviewing TMers and those of related paths. Q: So from your bio, it looks like when you were younger you were pretty normal A: Yes, I was petty normal, a good student, was generally kind and considerate. Q: When did you have this Shift in Consciousness, this Awakening, the Realization that you really are total asshole? A: Well I read lots of books and stuff, but it really happened when I started TM. There progress towards being an Unbounded asshole, unlimited obnoxiousness, maxiumum rudeness, all started almost within my first three day intro course. Q: What is your current state A: I have cut though all of the darkness and limitations. I am not fully realized that I am a total asshole, everyone else is a total asshole, an the universe is one huge asshole. Q: for those interested, do you have a web site A: Sure. Those interested can reach me at FFL Q: How will they know which asshole is you? A: ... And tartie boy finally opens his heart and let's all his infantile pain out in one fell swoop. Sad considering that mere 72 hours back the whole existence looked full of fun, joy, love and wonder to tartie boy. What a pathetic contrast from all his enlightened talks, poems and short stories from a few days back. Proves my point he is just another pimp(egoistic) in co-dependent relationship with the whore (intellect). The joy, wonder, love and fun was all his intellectual fantasy, all he saw was perfection a few days back and lo and behold now all he sees is obnoxious assholes..OMG..LOL..what a piece of work my tartie..
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: In reality there is no truth. There is no truth in reality. There is no reality that can be true. There is only opinion. All opinions are equal in value. You are a troll. Vaj is a troll. You support each other in trollness. You opinions don't matter here. Your opinions don't matter at all. No one here really cares what you think. Welcome to the reality of FFL. The reality of FFL is that since the beginning of this posting week, five posters (Judy, Jim, Willytex, Nabby, and Ravi) have made 62 posts either insulting me, trying to refute something I said, or otherwise putting me down. What part of that fits into No one here really cares what you think? Seems to me that these people -- two of whom claim to be enlightened -- care VERY MUCH what I think, enough to spend this much time replying to it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tartbrain no_reply@ wrote: Following is an interesting post to SeriousSeekers.com Fellow Graceful, Light Filled Seekers, I think I may have found IT -- the fastest evolutionary, spiritual unfolding technique on the planet. As we all know, awakening and spiritual unfoldment appears once the soul has roasted, purified or unwound the densely and deeply packed intertwined samskaras built up after almost infinite births. And then theres the collective karma stuff too. As we have all experienced, when this stuff is roasted, it may pop like popcorn for a while: very unstable, chaotic, random, not following any sense of order or rationality, way overheated, etc. Or we can think of it as unwinding of deep multi-dimensional knots. When doing so, lots of mess all over the floor and the knots unwind. The faster the evolutionary and spiritual unfoldment process, the hotter, more random and irrational is the corn popping, the messier and sloppy the floor becomes with all the unwinding. ERGO, the fastest technique must also produce the messiest, most heated, irrational, sloppy, unstable, chaotic side effects. Well my friends, I have been lurking at a site called FFL whose posters have a long history with TM. And I have to say, I have never, ever, its not even close, seen a group of seekers so messed up, twisted, overheated, irrational, petty, sloppy and unstable as these guys. Even those who have not practiced TM for decades -- they too are bat shit crazy. Thus the effects of TM appear not only profoundly powerful, but also long lasting. the heavy purifiction and its side effects last long after the practice is stopped. It appears from the longevity of their postings, some 10 years, some 20 years back to older forums. Sp it appears that it may take 6-12 lifetimes of this incredibly distasteful, in your face anger, hostility, random, chaotic, sloppy behavior to roast all the samskaras and unwind all of the knots. But certainly this HELL for a dozen lifetimes is worth the eternal grace of full unfoldment. So I signed up. I am now practicing TM twice a day and ALREADY the purification process has begun. So F* you your f*u*ing lame assholes, join me on the awesome adventure -- it you are not too fing SUUPID and dense to get my beautifully laid out points. So STFU and lets finally get serious about full spiritual unfoldment -- or simply continue with your decaying head up your smelly ass. Your choice. Some reply comments to this post at SeriousSeekeers.com #1 I checked out FFL as you suggested. Wow, I never knew what Ekhart Tolle meant by pain body until now. These folks are in serious internal pain. its almost too painful to watch. #2 Are these people of 24/7 medical watch? I sure hope so. For their sakes and those that ma be around them. These are walking time bombs. Are they all ex postal employees? #3 I heard at the end of their intro course they are given syringes filled with Thorazin to ease the symptoms. Some get a 24 hour patch I hear -- they are so bonkers #4 Are these people functional at all? Who feeds and clothes them? And takes them to the bathroom (jeez I don't even want to begin to think about what their bathrooms must look an smell like). maybe we should form a Seva project to help these souls out a bit. Give them a little bit of joy and help put a smile on their face. For some, its probably been decades. Funny stuff, Tart. I particularly liked Are they all ex postal employees? because the most rational and restrained person on the forum these days *is* an ex US Postal Service employee. :-) We never hear from lurkers. Duh. That's why they're
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: In reality there is no truth. There is no truth in reality. There is no reality that can be true. There is only opinion. All opinions are equal in value. You are a troll. Vaj is a troll. You support each other in trollness. You opinions don't matter here. Your opinions don't matter at all. No one here really cares what you think. Welcome to the reality of FFL. The reality of FFL is that since the beginning of this posting week, five posters (Judy, Jim, Willytex, Nabby, and Ravi) have made 62 posts either insulting me, trying to refute something I said, or otherwise putting me down. What part of that fits into No one here really cares what you think? Seems to me that these people -- two of whom claim to be enlightened -- care VERY MUCH what I think, enough to spend this much time replying to it. Turq, I don't know why you continue lumping me with others. You know how much I care for every message you write. I always compliment your writing yet you continue to ignore me, it leaves me really sad, hurt and miserable. You are really behaving like my ex now..LOL.. Love, Ravi Yogi.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 05/26/2011 09:07 AM, Ravi Yogi wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoisebno_reply@ wrote: Funny stuff, Tart. I particularly liked Are they all ex postal employees? because the most rational and restrained person on the forum these days *is* an ex US Postal Service employee. :-) We never hear from lurkers. Duh. That's why they're called lurkers. But what must they THINK of this zoo? I mean, we're all used to it. Whether we're still part of the TM organization or not, if we were at one point (as opposed to those here who never were, and just gazed at it from the periphery, never got involved, and lived on their fantasies of what it was like), we have seen this kinda crazy so long and so often that we've almost come to ignore it as normal. It isn't. It's crazy. People arguing who's right and who's wrong about stuff that can never be proven either, because it's all just opinion. People spending well over half of their posts each week trying to get the people they don't like. And that's leaving out the couple of people who claim to be fuckin' ENLIGHTENED, ferchrissakes, and then get their buttons pushed so easily that they spend dozens of posts acting out pre-adolescent revenge fantasies. Place is a fuckin' ZOO. This is not a Zoo, this is the FFL Pub, a place for mature individuals - if you think it's a zoo and it's bothering you so much, may be you should rethink. Oh forgive me, obviously not, because of your lies day in and day out that you use to denounce spirituality and harass real seekers. You obviously have a lot invested in this zoo, may be you have opened a circus elsewhere? Is that all you have left now to defend your lies by making it into its all an opinion lie? What an interesting strategy to mask your deception and lies by masquerading it as an opinion - I'm amazed yet quite amused. Nah, it's the Funny Farm Lounge or did you just think it was a pub where the waitresses dressed up like nurses? And just what did you think was in that little cup you're drinking? I'm always sippin' my divine vodka that I found hidden in the cellar of my divine mother. I'm not supposed to reveal this but I'm too drunk so here you go - don't get deceived by the mantras and meditation techniques that the Gurus give, those are all toys to entertain the intellectuals. All Gurus have a secret cellar which is loaded with divine vodka. The goal of a seeker is to trick the Guru and break into this cellar to get the hidden stash of this divine vodka, and then as they say - the world is in your pocket.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
They have replied to you so they could respond to your previous postings. This encourages you but also gives the false impression that people really care about what you say. Those people your quote on FFL believe that your statements need countering but in the world of no truth, no reality what you say is merely your opinion. Your opinion on any given subject will change with time - eventually to the complete opposite. Given this constancy of complete change, your mere opinion will switch to certitude. You will then become the guru of certitude of undeniable change. You may deny this but that will change too. After all this you will either die or become immortal. That would really be a change. This is my opinion but it will also change. In fact, you may already be immortal. But, of course, you may want to deny this.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: In reality there is no truth. There is no truth in reality. There is no reality that can be true. There is only opinion. All opinions are equal in value. You are a troll. Vaj is a troll. You support each other in trollness. You opinions don't matter here. Your opinions don't matter at all. No one here really cares what you think. Welcome to the reality of FFL. The reality of FFL is that since the beginning of this posting week, five posters (Judy, Jim, Willytex, Nabby, and Ravi) have made 62 posts either insulting me, trying to refute something I said, or otherwise putting me down. What part of that fits into No one here really cares what you think? Seems to me that these people -- two of whom claim to be enlightened -- care VERY MUCH what I think, enough to spend this much time replying to it. Turq, I don't know why you continue lumping me with others. You know how much I care for every message you write. I always compliment your writing yet you continue to ignore me, it leaves me really sad, hurt and miserable. Ravi, I shall break form and reply to this one, because it gives me the opportunity to rap about the occult theory behind why I ignore your silly ass. It's because of something I learned from a couple of spiritual teachers. When someone appears to be obses- sing on you, on an occult level it's because they're trying to suck your energy, in the form of attention. What to do about it? Cut them off at the pump. Ignore them, and watch what they do. If they hardly notice, they weren't really obsessed. If they keep trying to gain your attention, using whatever means they can think of, they were. If they *increase* their attempts to get you to focus your attention on them, they were *really* obsessed. Guess which category you fall into. Guess which category the people I lump you in with fall into. Get it? Buh-bye.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: In reality there is no truth. There is no truth in reality. There is no reality that can be true. There is only opinion. All opinions are equal in value. You are a troll. Vaj is a troll. You support each other in trollness. You opinions don't matter here. Your opinions don't matter at all. No one here really cares what you think. Welcome to the reality of FFL. The reality of FFL is that since the beginning of this posting week, five posters (Judy, Jim, Willytex, Nabby, and Ravi) have made 62 posts either insulting me, trying to refute something I said, or otherwise putting me down. What part of that fits into No one here really cares what you think? Seems to me that these people -- two of whom claim to be enlightened -- care VERY MUCH what I think, enough to spend this much time replying to it. Turq, I don't know why you continue lumping me with others. You know how much I care for every message you write. I always compliment your writing yet you continue to ignore me, it leaves me really sad, hurt and miserable. Ravi, I shall break form and reply to this one, because it gives me the opportunity to rap about the occult theory behind why I ignore your silly ass. It's because of something I learned from a couple of spiritual teachers. When someone appears to be obses- sing on you, on an occult level it's because they're trying to suck your energy, in the form of attention. What to do about it? Cut them off at the pump. Ignore them, and watch what they do. If they hardly notice, they weren't really obsessed. If they keep trying to gain your attention, using whatever means they can think of, they were. If they *increase* their attempts to get you to focus your attention on them, they were *really* obsessed. Guess which category you fall into. Guess which category the people I lump you in with fall into. Get it? Buh-bye. Barry, I'm glad you decided to make me happy for at least one day. Thanks for your kindness, My divine mother is so kind and gracious and she has answered my innocent prayers, wohoo...!!! But I have always said here I am obsessed with you, this is no secret !!! C'mon don't give that WOO-WOO nonsense of occult, energy, all that spiritual teacher BS. Gawd, I thought you don't believe in all this WOO-WOO astrology, ayurveda energy crapnow you are REALLY REALLY behaving like my ex. Hey wait a second, wait a secondwas that spiritual teacher Rama?? That bastard, he kills himself but has cursed you for the rest of your life. Anyway I'm hoping for your continued response and participation to my threads.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting little story about Balraj Maharishi
Three guesses who this is: I read your posts Jim, I never read your posts Jim!!, I read your posts Jim, I never read your posts Jim!!, I read your posts Jim, I never read your posts Jim!!, I read your posts Jim, I never read your posts Jim!!, I read your posts Jim, I never read your posts Jim!!, I read your posts Jim, I never read your posts Jim!!, etc. Straighten out that wet mess of a mind Bozotronic Barry, and perhaps you can eventually respond rationally to me and/or be consistent on here. In the meantime, please enjoy another helping of turnips and foot fungus dude.:-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: On May 26, 2011, at 6:19 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: Pile on? Vaj has simply been exposed as a liar. Not sure what standard you look for in evaluating statements. But Vaj made a series of assertions and all of them turned out to be false. Not true. What actually happened is that several people have *declared* them false. Those people have IMO exactly the same level of credibility as Vaj -- namely none. No one has presented verifiable facts yet. That's what it seems to me as well~~ if there were some posts made which in any way proved Vaj's assertions to be false, or even dealt with them on any kind of level other than pseudo- hysteria, I haven't seen them. Neither have I. Absolutely *nothing* has been presented but hearsay and unverifiable claims, by those (on both sides) who have done nothing in the past to lend them such claims any credibility. Perhaps lurk could point them out? Especially since he seems so sure that Vaj has been exposed as a liar. Where, exactly, did this occur lurk? I must have missed the posts. And you'll continue to miss them, because based on past performance he won't answer you. He (sadly) seems limited to emotional overreaction drive-bys. And this Richard Nelson seems more intent on coming across more as mentally unbalanced than in having any kind of rational discussion. Sadly, I have to agree. In his earlier drive-bys, I gave him the benefit of a doubt as possibly having something positive to contribute, because of a sweet story about Jerry. I encouraged the positivity and chided him for having to balance it at the time with a gratuitous slam at Vaj. He claimed to have gotten the point. However, he has posted nothing since *but* slams at Vaj. I'm starting to get the feeling that, like so many on this forum, that is all he is capable of. Have you noticed that NONE of these supposed TM supporters have posted anything positive about TM and its supposed benefits in months? It's been pretty much all negative, all the time. Did you even *notice* that feste did *exactly* what he was accusing Vaj of? He just slung insults, and presented not even a single supposed fact. When asked to back up these assertions, the best he could come up with, was he heard it from someone Yup. The people piling on didn't even go that far. They just claimed things *as if they were facts*, but without anything that could enable anyone to determine whether they were really facts or not. In other words, on one level what we seem to have here is a pissing contest, in which both sides are saying, What I've heard is better than what you've heard. I call it total bullshit, on all sides. As for the piling on thang that Sal brings up, it *would* have been possible for Richard Nelson or others to just post a few verifiable facts (y'know...stuff including dates and contact information and where one could go to verify their claims) and leave it at that. They did not. What they did was to do *exactly* the same thing that Vaj did -- make a bunch of unverifiable claims -- and then proceed to call him names. Not only unverifiable claims, but almost hysterical ones at that. Certainly angry ones, and out-of-control emotionally. Pretty interesting for people who claim to have been practicing the best form of meditation on the planet, and for decades. One of them -- the person who has posted the most gratuitous insults in this pissing contest actually claims to be enlightened. Which isn't exactly what you'd call either a great advertisement for meditation or a ringing endorsement for their version of the truth. Exactly. The point I have been making for years is that I don't see how *any* lurker on this forum could come away from the FFL experience having a positive view of TM and what it produces. Clearly, based on the TM supporters here, it produces people who are so thin-skinned and attached to their own beliefs that they have to spend the majority of their posts,
