[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ 
 wrote:
 
 
   
   Travis' research sounds fascinating but I'd want to see it 
   replicated with James Randi standard controls to sort out what
   (if anything) is happening. I'm not going to hold my breath
   about it though because it means a complete overhaul of
   many disciplines and on the flimsiness of the alleged evidence
   there's no point getting excited.
  
  
  Correction, it requires a complete overhaul of everything
  we think we know. And on what evidence? An unrepeated
  study and some hilariously dodgy time series analysis.
  Give us the world peace the IA course promised and we'll
  have to take it seriously.
  
 
 Statistically there is less war and civil war that ever before in 
 history, and it has been steadily decreasing. This is not proof, 
but 
 you watch too much news and don't realise you are only seeing ever-
 diminishing pockets of violence, and blowing them all out of 
 proportion in your mind. Peace has come (as long as Bush and Cheney 
 leave quietly)

Or maybe we've just finished exterminating all the bad guys.
 
 OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Robert]

 (snip)
I know a little about this stuff, so let me give this a try...
 
 Please explain a superconductor to me?
A superconductor is a conductor of electricity which has no 
resistance. It is implied in a state of Absolute Zero, would produce 
a structure which would offer no resistance to an electric current.
 
 Please explain a wave in a field?
The field and the wave in the field are one and the same.
The wave produces the field, and vice-versa.
 
 Please explain an electromagnetic field?
An electromagnetic field is produced from electicity and magnetism.
 
 Please explain how an EEG machine works?
Picks up minute variations of voltage, produced by the brain, by the 
firing of neurons of the brain.
 
 Please explain how an electromagnetic fluctuation can travel?
The electromagnetic field travels at the speed of light.
A change in the field, which travel at the speed of light, makes the 
field change and because of the infinite quality of the field, 
fluctuations appear to be spontaneous.
 
 Please explain how any fluctuation/energy could travel far?
Because they travel at the speed of light, and as one approaches the 
speed of light, time ceases to exist, as we know it.
This is how consiousness which can be compared to light, effects at a 
distance.
 
 Please explain how a laser beam works and how it can hit the moon,
 whereas a regular flashlight cannot?
Laser light is different than regular light, in that it is produced 
through an exact synchrony of a wave of light.
Regular light is not diffused and not synchonized.
 
 Please explain what exactly is a photon?
A photon is something that physicist came up with to explain light in 
terms of a particle. A particle of light is called a photon. Because 
light acts sometimes as a particle and sometimes as a wave, it was 
easier to explain light in this way, although light itself is an 
absolute of the Universe.
 
 Please explain quantum wave functions that are not coherent and why 
they
 dissipate?
If waves are not aligned, then one wave can cancel out another...
Like the waves of the Ocean, one can cancel another out, if is is 
opposite in it's size and timing...
Likewise a wave that is in sync with another wave will increase and 
support each other.
 
 Please explain how coherent quatum wave functions, by definition 
could
 travel further (as in a laser beam?
Because the waves are in tune with one another and continue to 
support each other through time and space.
R.G.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Robert]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
 snip
  Maharishi--the guy was obviously a deluded egomaniac.
  Do you know how important this is? NO democracies;
  NO starvation.
 
 So you're saying if we get rid of all democracies,
 we'll get rid of starvation as well?
 
 (Ever notice how the more excited Vaj gets about
 bashing Maharishi, the less coherent he becomes?)

Like John Lennon said: we don't care about this ism and that ism...
We will cure starvation of our brothers and sisters around the world, 
when we decide to...
With all the technology we have, that allow farmers to grow as much 
food as it would have taken thousands of workers, in the past.
When we have computers that do the work or thousands, if not millions 
of people...
When we have a world that has thousands of millionaires, hundreds of 
billionaires...
When we evolve enough to see our brothers and sisters as ourselves, 
as Maharishi used to say, when we become more unified in Unity 
Consciousness, then we will feed everyone who is hungry...
Doesn't have anything to do with what you call your system of 
government...
Besides, I thought Reagan did away with the Soviet Union?
What happened with that one?
And, Bush looked into Putin's eyes, and what did he see?
Himself.
R.G.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 So you're saying if we get rid of all democracies,
 we'll get rid of starvation as well?
 
 (Ever notice how the more excited Vaj gets about
 bashing Maharishi, the less coherent he becomes?)

Thats Vaj in a nutshell.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[BillyG.]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- On Fri, 10/17/08, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Which leaves Socialism with Obama at the helm.  All
  dysfunctional
  forms of governments, and, btw, Obama has functional holes
  in his head
  just like Bush, Cocaine is even worse! Ohh  :-)
 
 Billy G, what is a functional hole and how is it assessed? 

In brief, anyone not functioning with left and right brain coherence
has 'functional holes'.

http://www.maharishiacademy.org/parents/missing.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[BillyG.]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Lowest common demoninator would apply more to the following:
 Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II...
 
 This is the most foolish interpretation...that Barack Obama would be 
 the lowest common denominator...


I don't think you understand the concept of lowest common
denominator; it refers to the inevitable degeneration of the *voting
populace* (in a democracy) that determines the outcome of an election
due to their numbers and special interest, see below:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can
only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves
largess from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority
always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the
public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over
loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. (Tytler)

I think this is what MMY meant when he used the term lowest common
denominator, IMO.

snip

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

  (snip)
 I know a little about this stuff, so let me give this a try...

  Please explain a superconductor to me?
 A superconductor is a conductor of electricity which has no
 resistance. It is implied in a state of Absolute Zero, would produce
 a structure which would offer no resistance to an electric current.
 
  Please explain a wave in a field?
 The field and the wave in the field are one and the same.
 The wave produces the field, and vice-versa.
 
  Please explain an electromagnetic field?
 An electromagnetic field is produced from electicity and magnetism.
 
  Please explain how an EEG machine works?
 Picks up minute variations of voltage, produced by the brain, by the
 firing of neurons of the brain.
 
  Please explain how an electromagnetic fluctuation can travel?
 The electromagnetic field travels at the speed of light.
 A change in the field, which travel at the speed of light, makes the
 field change and because of the infinite quality of the field,
 fluctuations appear to be spontaneous.
 
  Please explain how any fluctuation/energy could travel far?
 Because they travel at the speed of light, and as one approaches the
 speed of light, time ceases to exist, as we know it.
 This is how consiousness which can be compared to light, effects at a
 distance.
 
  Please explain how a laser beam works and how it can hit the moon,
  whereas a regular flashlight cannot?
 Laser light is different than regular light, in that it is produced
 through an exact synchrony of a wave of light.
 Regular light is not diffused and not synchonized.
 
  Please explain what exactly is a photon?
 A photon is something that physicist came up with to explain light in
 terms of a particle. A particle of light is called a photon. Because
 light acts sometimes as a particle and sometimes as a wave, it was
 easier to explain light in this way, although light itself is an
 absolute of the Universe.
 
  Please explain quantum wave functions that are not coherent and why
 they
  dissipate?
 If waves are not aligned, then one wave can cancel out another...
 Like the waves of the Ocean, one can cancel another out, if is is
 opposite in it's size and timing...
 Likewise a wave that is in sync with another wave will increase and
 support each other.
 
  Please explain how coherent quatum wave functions, by definition
 could
  travel further (as in a laser beam?
 Because the waves are in tune with one another and continue to
 support each other through time and space.
 R.G.



Good answers overall ! Maybe light being absolute is questionable, since
neither light nor gravity is no longer thought to be absolute. Time is
now thought to not exist. The laser beam compared to flashlight answer
you gave is the key .

OffWorld

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Peter]

--- On Sat, 10/18/08, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Saturday, October 18, 2008, 4:17 PM
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- On Fri, 10/17/08, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Which leaves Socialism with Obama at the helm. 
 All
   dysfunctional
   forms of governments, and, btw, Obama has
 functional holes
   in his head
   just like Bush, Cocaine is even worse! Ohh  :-)
  
  Billy G, what is a functional hole and how is it
 assessed? 
 
 In brief, anyone not functioning with left and right brain
 coherence
 has 'functional holes'.
 
 http://www.maharishiacademy.org/parents/missing.html

You know that this is total bullshit, don't you? To see a functional hole you 
would have to see a PET scan or a fMRI. You can't show a structural image of 
the brain and say, look, its not working there, that's a hole. Its not working 
at that moment of time. But it will work at some other time. A functional hole 
would also be a structural or anatomical hole and would be the result most 
likely of a stoke.

I read the link you had in your post and it is absurd. If Bevan spoke that way, 
relating whole brain function (an invented term because all normal brains 
have whole brain function) with greater achievement, etc. he'd be laughed out 
of the room by anyone with any background in neurology. More TMO 
pseudo-science. This is metaphorical thinking, not scientific thinking. It's 
also pure ignorance of what you're talking about. The shit that spills from the 
mouths of the these TMO stooges never ceases to amaze me!






 
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
  wrote:
  
 
   
Travis' research sounds fascinating but I'd want to see it
replicated with James Randi standard controls to sort out what
(if anything) is happening. I'm not going to hold my breath
about it though because it means a complete overhaul of
many disciplines and on the flimsiness of the alleged evidence
there's no point getting excited.
  
  
   Correction, it requires a complete overhaul of everything
   we think we know. And on what evidence? An unrepeated
   study and some hilariously dodgy time series analysis.
   Give us the world peace the IA course promised and we'll
   have to take it seriously.
  
 
  Statistically there is less war and civil war that ever before in
  history, and it has been steadily decreasing. This is not proof,
 but
  you watch too much news and don't realise you are only seeing ever-
  diminishing pockets of violence, and blowing them all out of
  proportion in your mind. Peace has come (as long as Bush and Cheney
  leave quietly)

 Or maybe we've just finished exterminating all the bad guys.

That cannot be the cause because Bush and Cheney are still walking free.
They are considered criminals and mass murderers under International
Law, and in many countries now it is entirely legal for people to make a
citizens arrest on them if tey go there. This is a fact. If they come to
Brattlebrough Vermont, the police have been ordered by the county to
arrest them ! True fact.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[BillyG.]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


   Billy G, what is a functional hole and how is it
  assessed? 
  
  In brief, anyone not functioning with left and right brain
  coherence
  has 'functional holes'.
  
  http://www.maharishiacademy.org/parents/missing.html
 
 You know that this is total bullshit, don't you? To see a functional
hole you would have to see a PET scan or a fMRI. You can't show a
structural image of the brain and say, look, its not working there,
that's a hole. Its not working at that moment of time. But it will
work at some other time. A functional hole would also be a structural
or anatomical hole and would be the result most likely of a stoke.
 
 I read the link you had in your post and it is absurd. If Bevan
spoke that way, relating whole brain function (an invented term
because all normal brains have whole brain function) with greater
achievement, etc. he'd be laughed out of the room by anyone with any
background in neurology. More TMO pseudo-science. This is
metaphorical thinking, not scientific thinking. It's also pure
ignorance of what you're talking about. The shit that spills from the
mouths of the these TMO stooges never ceases to amaze me!

If George Bush had functional holes in his head, so does Barry Obama!
The TMorg had no problem using that mean spirited comment against
George Bush so why not Barry Obama? (Actually I agree with you..:-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , off_world_beings 
no_reply@
  wrote:
  
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo 
richardhughes103@
   wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , sparaig LEnglish5@
  wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo 
richardhughes103@
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , sparaig LEnglish5@
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo
richardhughes103@
  wrote:
 [...]
But why would he stop doing the experiments, if there 
is
anything
to it at all it's the most amazing breakthrough in
  scientific
undertsnding ever! I'm serious. The only abstract I 
could
  find
in the Journal of Neuroscience claims to have found
  evidence
of
a field effect, if true it's massive.
  
   Because the ceiling effect made the resutls
  unpredictable/not-
  replicable?
 
  They wouldn't be non-replicable and that's the only thing
  that would lift the research out of obscurity. If nothing
  else, James Randi would give them a million bucks.

 OK, let me puut it another way: the results haven't been
  replicated
lately,
 or so I surmise. The reason for that is...?

 And no, you have no idea WHAT they haven't been replicated: 
the
  most
 you can do is speculate.
   
No, I can speculate and I can look around for evidence. So 
far, no
evidence.
   
   
   
  It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is 
big
  news.
  But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
 

 If it IS QM effects at body temperature at macro-distances
  within
the brain,
 what possible reason would have to assume that it wouldn't 
show
 action at larger distances? What theoretical difference is 
there
 between 5 inches and 5,000 miles in this context?
   
They don't survive the interference with other quantum states 
is
  the
problem. Any coherent waveform is localized and remains so 
because
it's like running into a wall of noise once out in the world
and away from whatever it is pulled them together in the first
   place.
  
   Which random quantum states are you talking about that are
  exhibiting
   wave coherence in te general environment? You are trying to say
  that one
   tiny wave on its own, can stop a host of coherent waves acting 
in
  tandem
   and exponentially magnifying their power wit eac new addition 
of a
   fluctuation that joins their flow. One, or two, or even a 
million
   random, scattered wave functions cannot stand againt a coherent
   super-conductor-like formation.
  
   This is your fallacy. You are reading about microtubules in the
  brain
   that interact weakly with the quantum field, but people like 
Penrose
   don't understand yet that there can exist an array of neuronal
  activity
   that functions as one 'army', coherent and powerful. Travis 
already
   proved this twice in the International Journal of Neuroscience.
 
  Talking of fallacies  Travis hasn't proved anything.
 
  I was talking about a few coherent quantum waves not surviving 
very
  far when radiating into the general mish-mash. It applies to any
  waves whether they are in water, air or whatever. The coherent 
becomes
  incoherenet when interfered with.
 
 Hugo. Where did you read about coherent waves getting dissapated? 
Waves
 given a signifiacant, but not overwhelming power in Peru on the 
ocean
 get BIGGER and more powerful as the cross the Pacific, sometimes
 building up over thousands of miles to giant tsunamis.
 
Tsunamis are caused by earthquakes or under sea volcanos and
they may appear to you to have an increasingly coghorent effect
as they move across oceans but they don't. ALL wave fronts 
dissapate as they spread by the inverse square of the distance
travelled. They only appear to be more powerful than the surrounding
sea because of the energy they had at the start.

Tides are driven by the earth turning and moon's orbit, both
pretty powerful forces but if they stopped the sea would too.
You need a generator to keep it moving 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 16, 2008, at 4:28 AM, sparaig wrote:

But I cn draw parallels to the EEG and other physiological  
correlates  of the
TM Transcendental Consciousness state to the descriptions of  
Turiya that
 require far less hand-waving, and in fact, while the EEG is  
strking, it doesn't

resemble any pathology that I am  aware of.


Hand waving? Who's hand-waving? They've just published their results.  
It's not their fault the scientific world found it amazing that there  
was finally evidence of a fourth state of consciousness!




http://web.me.com/lawsonenglish/Site/Meditation_EEG.html



Cherry-picked examples, in pictorial form have little meaning. It's  
clearly meant to mislead the gullible. If you're familiar with  
fourier processing of medical data, you'd know that there are MANY  
ways to display and output data. But you'll notice here, we don't  
have enough information to know what's really being shown. Instead  
the hope appears to be to deceive people with an image and let them  
connect the dots, based on suggestive language of the TM org experts.




Things that make you go h...


I agree.



And one cntral point: the thalamic activity of the EEG of the  
BUddhist meditators
goes up during their meditation activity, while it goes down during  
TM practice.


Well since samadhi hasn't been yet observed in any TM research out  
there, it's really rather meaningless now, isn't it? There are all  
sorts of sleep stages that have long been seen in the EEG of TMers,  
so this isn't a huge surprise!


You're not waving your hand are you?

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[cardemaister]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ---Explain yourself!  What's wrong with miraculous healings?  X-men 
 episode 3 had a miracle healer.  
 

They just move yer negative karma to some future incarnation??

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

  far when radiating into the general mish-mash. It applies to any
  waves whether they are in water, air or whatever. The coherent
becomes
  incoherenet when interfered with.

 Hugo. Where did you read about coherent waves getting dissapated?
Waves
 given a signifiacant, but not overwhelming power in Peru on the
ocean
 get BIGGER and more powerful as the cross the Pacific, sometimes
 building up over thousands of miles to giant tsunamis.

Tsunamis are caused by earthquakes or under sea volcanos and
they may appear to you to have an increasingly coghorent effect
as they move across oceans but they don't. ALL wave fronts
dissapate as they spread by the inverse square of the distance
travelled. They only appear to be more powerful than the surrounding
sea because of the energy they had at the start.

You just proved my point. A massive rockfall into the ocean causes a
large, but insignificant wave in Peru, that by the time it hits Hawaii
or Japan, it fas ACTUALLY grown. These are the facts. A wave energy can
survive and grow. PERIOD. Do some research on the last tidal wave to
kill a lot of people in Hawaii 25 years ago and come back after you find
out how the wave-energy grew.


 There is no book you have read that states that highly coherent wave
 functions in the electromagnetic field dissapate quickly. You are
making
 it up.

In the book I got this from is a critique of Penroses The Emperors
New Mind by Dan Dennett, arguing that consciousness can't have a
quantum element because the waves (like all waves) wouldn't be able
to survive far enough into the brain (let alone outside it) to hold
the system together.

This ACTUALLY PROVES the point that a mass of coherent waves or coherent
energy WOULD survive over long distances. Incoherent waves, in an
incohherent ocean of energy, cannot survive, but a masse of coherent
waves cannot be stopped by the gerneal  mass of incoherent waves. The
guy actually proves the point. If all waves are so weak, then a mass of
coherent waves are more powerful than those acting idependently. This is
a fact of nature. That is why you cannot shine a flashlight onto the
moon, but you can shine a laser beam onto the moon (a laser beam IS
coherent waves.)

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 
 
   far when radiating into the general mish-mash. It applies to any
   waves whether they are in water, air or whatever. The coherent
 becomes
   incoherenet when interfered with.
 
  Hugo. Where did you read about coherent waves getting dissapated?
 Waves
  given a signifiacant, but not overwhelming power in Peru on the
 ocean
  get BIGGER and more powerful as the cross the Pacific, sometimes
  building up over thousands of miles to giant tsunamis.
 
 Tsunamis are caused by earthquakes or under sea volcanos and
 they may appear to you to have an increasingly coghorent effect
 as they move across oceans but they don't. ALL wave fronts
 dissapate as they spread by the inverse square of the distance
 travelled. They only appear to be more powerful than the surrounding
 sea because of the energy they had at the start.
 
 You just proved my point. A massive rockfall into the ocean causes a
 large, but insignificant wave in Peru, that by the time it hits 
Hawaii
 or Japan, it fas ACTUALLY grown. These are the facts. A wave energy 
can
 survive and grow. PERIOD. Do some research on the last tidal wave to
 kill a lot of people in Hawaii 25 years ago and come back after you 
find
 out how the wave-energy grew.

Can you do the research and post when you've found it. Reason
being, I doubt you're right to such an extent I'd put money on it.


  There is no book you have read that states that highly coherent 
wave
  functions in the electromagnetic field dissapate quickly. You are
 making
  it up.
 
 In the book I got this from is a critique of Penroses The 
Emperors
 New Mind by Dan Dennett, arguing that consciousness can't have a
 quantum element because the waves (like all waves) wouldn't be able
 to survive far enough into the brain (let alone outside it) to hold
 the system together.
 
 This ACTUALLY PROVES the point that a mass of coherent waves or 
coherent
 energy WOULD survive over long distances. Incoherent waves, in an
 incohherent ocean of energy, cannot survive, but a masse of coherent
 waves cannot be stopped by the gerneal  mass of incoherent waves. 
The
 guy actually proves the point. If all waves are so weak, then a 
mass of
 coherent waves are more powerful than those acting idependently. 
This is
 a fact of nature. That is why you cannot shine a flashlight onto the
 moon, but you can shine a laser beam onto the moon (a laser beam IS
 coherent waves.)

Yeah, but it only stays focussed because of the POWER behind
it is greater than any interference. Turn the power OFF
and coherence breaks down. Elementary physics old chap.
 
 OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo richardhughes103@
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , bob_brigante no_reply@
   wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo richardhughes103@
wrote:
 It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big
 news.
 But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.

 I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this puzzling.
 You do realise this is highly important and paradigm shifting,
 if true? Of course you do.

   
**
   
It's not surprising about quantum interaction at a distance:
   
If two particles are entangled, they act in some respects as if
   they
were a single object, said Wootters. Everything that happens to
   one
of the entangled pairs instantly affects the other, no matter
 how
   far
apart each of the entangled particles is from the other.
   
Braunstein likens entanglement to a pair of ideal lovers who
 know
each other so well that they could answer for their lover even
 if
separated by long distances.
   
http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c 
http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c 
  
   All very clever but it doesn't have anything to do
   with the brain. Particles in your mind don't become
   entangled and then seperate to different parts of
   space. This referes to laboratory experiments not
   to the general run of events in nature.
  
 
 
  Incorrect Hugo, physicists believe that every particle has an
 entangled
  twin somewhere in the universe. All particles.

 Yes but it's the bits that make up the bits that make up particles
 that are connected, and seperating them can only be done in a
 laboratory. It isn't an explanation for anything mystical.

Its not mystical. Its scientifically obvious that 1. a superconductor is
more invincible than its incoherent surroundings, and 2. That any energy
in nature could act like a super-conductor. 3. Scientists teleported
particle information ( a particle) across the Danube river a couple of
years ago. 4. If research published in peer-reviewed scientific journals
is to be thrown out the window, en masse, and on a whim, then yes, you
could say that there is no ME. But that research shows clearly that
there is an ME. Travis' research in the International Journal of
Neuroscience showed that people in one room using a mental technique
would affect the brain and body of people in another room. Therefore, a
mental technique (ie. thought or some kind of energy from the brain and
body) can survive beyond a few millimetres and have dramatic effects at
a distance. He showed this twice. Other studies showed related results.
Throwing science out the window is what fundamentalist nutcases do.

Recap:
1. Superconductors exist.
2. Most scientists believe that any energy can take on the quality of a
superconductor.
3. Information (power) can be teleported, and most scientists believe it
is routine in the universe.
4. Mental activity (thought) can have action at a distance.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , off_world_beings 
no_reply@
  wrote:
  
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo 
richardhughes103@
   wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , bob_brigante no_reply@
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo 
richardhughes103@
 wrote:
  It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is 
big
  news.
  But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
 
  I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this 
puzzling.
  You do realise this is highly important and paradigm 
shifting,
  if true? Of course you do.
 

 **

 It's not surprising about quantum interaction at a distance:

 If two particles are entangled, they act in some respects 
as if
they
 were a single object, said Wootters. Everything that 
happens to
one
 of the entangled pairs instantly affects the other, no 
matter
  how
far
 apart each of the entangled particles is from the other.

 Braunstein likens entanglement to a pair of ideal lovers 
who
  know
 each other so well that they could answer for their lover 
even
  if
 separated by long distances.

 http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c 
 http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c 
   
All very clever but it doesn't have anything to do
with the brain. Particles in your mind don't become
entangled and then seperate to different parts of
space. This referes to laboratory experiments not
to the general run of events in nature.
   
  
  
   Incorrect Hugo, physicists believe that every particle has an
  entangled
   twin somewhere in the universe. All particles.
 
  Yes but it's the bits that make up the bits that make up particles
  that are connected, and seperating them can only be done in a
  laboratory. It isn't an explanation for anything mystical.
 
 Its not mystical. Its scientifically obvious that 1. a 
superconductor is
 more invincible than its incoherent surroundings, and 2. That any 
energy
 in nature could act like a super-conductor. 3. Scientists teleported
 particle information ( a particle) across the Danube river a couple 
of
 years ago. 4. If research published in peer-reviewed scientific 
journals
 is to be thrown out the window, en masse, and on a whim, then yes, 
you
 could say that there is no ME. But that research shows clearly that
 there is an ME. Travis' research in the International Journal of
 Neuroscience showed that people in one room using a mental technique
 would affect the brain and body of people in another room. 
Therefore, a
 mental technique (ie. thought or some kind of energy from the brain 
and
 body) can survive beyond a few millimetres and have dramatic 
effects at
 a distance. He showed this twice. Other studies showed related 
results.
 Throwing science out the window is what fundamentalist nutcases do.
 
 Recap:
 1. Superconductors exist.
 2. Most scientists believe that any energy can take on the quality 
of a
 superconductor.
 3. Information (power) can be teleported, and most scientists 
believe it
 is routine in the universe.
 4. Mental activity (thought) can have action at a distance.
 
 OffWorld

I just typed out an exhaustive reply and my computer crashed so 
you'll just have to imagine my (ahem) devastating retort.

I will say that I haven't chucked out anything on a whim, I've
been reading TM research for *years* in fact I had my own set of 
the collected papers. Which I gave to Oxfam when I came to the 
conclusion most of it was nonsense about TM making your toenails
grow quicker and things like that. The only thing that interests
ME is the ME because of it's implications for science and life
in general. I'm not convinced there is anything to it. And I
think Hagelin talks utter crap about most things and just
expects everyone to agree with him because they don't understand
it either, and he's got a crown on.

Travis' research sounds fascinating but I'd want to see it 
replicated with James Randi standard controls to sort out what
(if anything) is happening. I'm not going to hold my breath
about it though because it means a complete overhaul of
many disciplines and on the flimsiness of the alleged evidence
there's no point getting excited.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo 
richardhughes103@
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , off_world_beings 
 no_reply@
   wrote:
   
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo 
 richardhughes103@
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , bob_brigante 
no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo 
 richardhughes103@
  wrote:
   It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is 
 big
   news.
   But affecting people at a distance? Very big news 
indeed.
  
   I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this 
 puzzling.
   You do realise this is highly important and paradigm 
 shifting,
   if true? Of course you do.
  
 
  **
 
  It's not surprising about quantum interaction at a 
distance:
 
  If two particles are entangled, they act in some 
respects 
 as if
 they
  were a single object, said Wootters. Everything that 
 happens to
 one
  of the entangled pairs instantly affects the other, no 
 matter
   how
 far
  apart each of the entangled particles is from the other.
 
  Braunstein likens entanglement to a pair of ideal lovers 
 who
   know
  each other so well that they could answer for their lover 
 even
   if
  separated by long distances.
 
  http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c 
  http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c 

 All very clever but it doesn't have anything to do
 with the brain. Particles in your mind don't become
 entangled and then seperate to different parts of
 space. This referes to laboratory experiments not
 to the general run of events in nature.

   
   
Incorrect Hugo, physicists believe that every particle has an
   entangled
twin somewhere in the universe. All particles.
  
   Yes but it's the bits that make up the bits that make up 
particles
   that are connected, and seperating them can only be done in a
   laboratory. It isn't an explanation for anything mystical.
  
  Its not mystical. Its scientifically obvious that 1. a 
 superconductor is
  more invincible than its incoherent surroundings, and 2. That any 
 energy
  in nature could act like a super-conductor. 3. Scientists 
teleported
  particle information ( a particle) across the Danube river a 
couple 
 of
  years ago. 4. If research published in peer-reviewed scientific 
 journals
  is to be thrown out the window, en masse, and on a whim, then 
yes, 
 you
  could say that there is no ME. But that research shows clearly 
that
  there is an ME. Travis' research in the International Journal of
  Neuroscience showed that people in one room using a mental 
technique
  would affect the brain and body of people in another room. 
 Therefore, a
  mental technique (ie. thought or some kind of energy from the 
brain 
 and
  body) can survive beyond a few millimetres and have dramatic 
 effects at
  a distance. He showed this twice. Other studies showed related 
 results.
  Throwing science out the window is what fundamentalist nutcases 
do.
  
  Recap:
  1. Superconductors exist.
  2. Most scientists believe that any energy can take on the 
quality 
 of a
  superconductor.
  3. Information (power) can be teleported, and most scientists 
 believe it
  is routine in the universe.
  4. Mental activity (thought) can have action at a distance.
  
  OffWorld
 
 I just typed out an exhaustive reply and my computer crashed so 
 you'll just have to imagine my (ahem) devastating retort.
 
 I will say that I haven't chucked out anything on a whim, I've
 been reading TM research for *years* in fact I had my own set of 
 the collected papers. Which I gave to Oxfam when I came to the 
 conclusion most of it was nonsense about TM making your toenails
 grow quicker and things like that. The only thing that interests
 ME is the ME because of it's implications for science and life
 in general. I'm not convinced there is anything to it. And I
 think Hagelin talks utter crap about most things and just
 expects everyone to agree with him because they don't understand
 it either, and he's got a crown on.
 
 Travis' research sounds fascinating but I'd want to see it 
 replicated with James Randi standard controls to sort out what
 (if anything) is happening. I'm not going to hold my breath
 about it though 

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo richardhughes103@
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , off_world_beings
 no_reply@
   wrote:
   
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com   , Hugo
 richardhughes103@
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com   , bob_brigante no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com   , Hugo
 richardhughes103@
  wrote:
   It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is
 big
   news.
   But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
  
   I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this
 puzzling.
   You do realise this is highly important and paradigm
 shifting,
   if true? Of course you do.
  
 
  **
 
  It's not surprising about quantum interaction at a distance:
 
  If two particles are entangled, they act in some respects
 as if
 they
  were a single object, said Wootters. Everything that
 happens to
 one
  of the entangled pairs instantly affects the other, no
 matter
   how
 far
  apart each of the entangled particles is from the other.
 
  Braunstein likens entanglement to a pair of ideal lovers
 who
   know
  each other so well that they could answer for their lover
 even
   if
  separated by long distances.
 
  http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c 
http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c 
  http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c 
http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c  

 All very clever but it doesn't have anything to do
 with the brain. Particles in your mind don't become
 entangled and then seperate to different parts of
 space. This referes to laboratory experiments not
 to the general run of events in nature.

   
   
Incorrect Hugo, physicists believe that every particle has an
   entangled
twin somewhere in the universe. All particles.
  
   Yes but it's the bits that make up the bits that make up particles
   that are connected, and seperating them can only be done in a
   laboratory. It isn't an explanation for anything mystical.
 
  Its not mystical. Its scientifically obvious that 1. a
 superconductor is
  more invincible than its incoherent surroundings, and 2. That any
 energy
  in nature could act like a super-conductor. 3. Scientists teleported
  particle information ( a particle) across the Danube river a couple
 of
  years ago. 4. If research published in peer-reviewed scientific
 journals
  is to be thrown out the window, en masse, and on a whim, then yes,
 you
  could say that there is no ME. But that research shows clearly that
  there is an ME. Travis' research in the International Journal of
  Neuroscience showed that people in one room using a mental technique
  would affect the brain and body of people in another room.
 Therefore, a
  mental technique (ie. thought or some kind of energy from the brain
 and
  body) can survive beyond a few millimetres and have dramatic
 effects at
  a distance. He showed this twice. Other studies showed related
 results.
  Throwing science out the window is what fundamentalist nutcases do.
 
  Recap:
  1. Superconductors exist.
  2. Most scientists believe that any energy can take on the quality
 of a
  superconductor.
  3. Information (power) can be teleported, and most scientists
 believe it
  is routine in the universe.
  4. Mental activity (thought) can have action at a distance.
 
  OffWorld

 I just typed out an exhaustive reply and my computer crashed so
 you'll just have to imagine my (ahem) devastating retort.

 I will say that I haven't chucked out anything on a whim, I've
 been reading TM research for 

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:


  
  Travis' research sounds fascinating but I'd want to see it 
  replicated with James Randi standard controls to sort out what
  (if anything) is happening. I'm not going to hold my breath
  about it though because it means a complete overhaul of
  many disciplines and on the flimsiness of the alleged evidence
  there's no point getting excited.
 
 
 Correction, it requires a complete overhaul of everything
 we think we know. And on what evidence? An unrepeated
 study and some hilariously dodgy time series analysis.
 Give us the world peace the IA course promised and we'll
 have to take it seriously.
 

Statistically there is less war and civil war that ever before in 
history, and it has been steadily decreasing. This is not proof, but 
you watch too much news and don't realise you are only seeing ever-
diminishing pockets of violence, and blowing them all out of 
proportion in your mind. Peace has come (as long as Bush and Cheney 
leave quietly)

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[guyfawkes91]

There may be reducing violence and wars around the globe but that
doesn't mean it's due to the ME. In fact research done by real
researchers have found that quality of life measured by things like
health, low crime, low corruption and so on, is highly correlated with
societies that are secular liberal democracies. In fact there's an
inverse correlation between religious belief and quality of life. So
it looks like the reason for the improvements around the world over
the last 50 years are mainly due to the spread of things that
Maharishi disapproved of like democracy, free speech, women's rights,
free markets and so on.
  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ 
 wrote:
 
 
   
   Travis' research sounds fascinating but I'd want to see it 
   replicated with James Randi standard controls to sort out what
   (if anything) is happening. I'm not going to hold my breath
   about it though because it means a complete overhaul of
   many disciplines and on the flimsiness of the alleged evidence
   there's no point getting excited.
  
  
  Correction, it requires a complete overhaul of everything
  we think we know. And on what evidence? An unrepeated
  study and some hilariously dodgy time series analysis.
  Give us the world peace the IA course promised and we'll
  have to take it seriously.
  
 
 Statistically there is less war and civil war that ever before in 
 history, and it has been steadily decreasing. This is not proof, but 
 you watch too much news and don't realise you are only seeing ever-
 diminishing pockets of violence, and blowing them all out of 
 proportion in your mind. Peace has come (as long as Bush and Cheney 
 leave quietly)
 
 OffWorld

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Bhairitu]

off_world_beings wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
   

   
 Travis' research sounds fascinating but I'd want to see it 
 replicated with James Randi standard controls to sort out what
 (if anything) is happening. I'm not going to hold my breath
 about it though because it means a complete overhaul of
 many disciplines and on the flimsiness of the alleged evidence
 there's no point getting excited.
   
 Correction, it requires a complete overhaul of everything
 we think we know. And on what evidence? An unrepeated
 study and some hilariously dodgy time series analysis.
 Give us the world peace the IA course promised and we'll
 have to take it seriously.

 

 Statistically there is less war and civil war that ever before in 
 history, and it has been steadily decreasing. This is not proof, but 
 you watch too much news and don't realise you are only seeing ever-
 diminishing pockets of violence, and blowing them all out of 
 proportion in your mind. Peace has come (as long as Bush and Cheney 
 leave quietly)

 OffWorld
THAT however may be more due to the IE.  No, not Internet Explorer 
though in a way: yes.  The Internet Effect is probably responsible for 
less war and more peace.  Never before have we been able to communicate 
instantly with someone on the other side of the global.  This has made a 
whole difference in the way we see the world because now those neighbors 
in distant lands seem next door.  Putsches and  coups can be seen and 
reported up close (look at the recent Georgia event) and it becomes 
difficult for them to succeed.  Of course are you taking into account 
the dumbass wars which may make up for the lack of wars elsewhere?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 17, 2008, at 2:15 PM, guyfawkes91 wrote:


There may be reducing violence and wars around the globe but that
doesn't mean it's due to the ME. In fact research done by real
researchers have found that quality of life measured by things like
health, low crime, low corruption and so on, is highly correlated with
societies that are secular liberal democracies. In fact there's an
inverse correlation between religious belief and quality of life. So
it looks like the reason for the improvements around the world over
the last 50 years are mainly due to the spread of things that
Maharishi disapproved of like democracy, free speech, women's rights,
free markets and so on.



Same with starvation. The great Nobel prize winning economist Dr.  
Amrit Sen found that starvation does not occur, globally, in  
Democratic forms of government. So whatever, you do, do not listen to  
Maharishi--the guy was obviously a deluded egomaniac. Do you know how  
important this is? NO democracies; NO starvation. It's because  
representative Democracies are a moral stage 5, the social contract  
level of moral development. In all the lower stages of collective  
moral development--like the Maharishi's mad monarchical ideas--there  
is room for starvation to occur because of the way information flows  
in the less morally evolved societies.


Following Maharishi's plan = a mad man's plan for world starvation.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[enlightened_dawn11]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 17, 2008, at 2:15 PM, guyfawkes91 wrote:
 
  There may be reducing violence and wars around the globe but that
  doesn't mean it's due to the ME. In fact research done by real
  researchers have found that quality of life measured by things 
like
  health, low crime, low corruption and so on, is highly 
correlated with
  societies that are secular liberal democracies. In fact there's 
an
  inverse correlation between religious belief and quality of 
life. So
  it looks like the reason for the improvements around the world 
over
  the last 50 years are mainly due to the spread of things that
  Maharishi disapproved of like democracy, free speech, women's 
rights,
  free markets and so on.
 
 
 Same with starvation. The great Nobel prize winning economist Dr.  
 Amrit Sen found that starvation does not occur, globally, in  
 Democratic forms of government. So whatever, you do, do not listen 
to  
 Maharishi--the guy was obviously a deluded egomaniac. Do you know 
how  
 important this is? NO democracies; NO starvation. It's because  
 representative Democracies are a moral stage 5, the social 
contract  
 level of moral development. In all the lower stages of collective  
 moral development--like the Maharishi's mad monarchical ideas--
there  
 is room for starvation to occur because of the way information 
flows  
 in the less morally evolved societies.
 
 Following Maharishi's plan = a mad man's plan for world starvation.

the Maharishi was a visionary, never looking backwards to the 
current possibilities, which you are doing, but always forward. so 
your comparison is unfair. I agree with you, that with what we have 
to work with today, democracy works out pretty well. his statements 
on democracy as a form of government were strictly in the context of 
democracy not producing the most capable leaders within government.

the maharishi's principle was that we can quickly achieve tomorrow, 
ideals beyond our wildest dreams, far exceeding our present status. 
there's nothing wrong with that, is there? 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 17, 2008, at 4:28 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote:


the Maharishi was a visionary, never looking backwards to the
current possibilities, which you are doing, but always forward.


He was a businessman posing as a visionary Dawn. Let me put it to you  
this way: we was as much a visionary as Donald Trump. But I did like  
the the way Maharishi combed his hair much better. :-)



so
your comparison is unfair.


Dawn, please look at the subject line and look for the word Raja in  
it. OK, good. His mad vision continues, in the ever-present and into  
the future.



I agree with you, that with what we have
to work with today, democracy works out pretty well. his statements
on democracy as a form of government were strictly in the context of
democracy not producing the most capable leaders within government.

the maharishi's principle was that we can quickly achieve tomorrow,
ideals beyond our wildest dreams, far exceeding our present status.
there's nothing wrong with that, is there?


I would not nor could not except a person of low moral development as  
an authority in such matters.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[enlightened_dawn11]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 17, 2008, at 4:28 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote:
 
  the Maharishi was a visionary, never looking backwards to the
  current possibilities, which you are doing, but always forward.
 
 He was a businessman posing as a visionary Dawn. Let me put it to 
you  
 this way: we was as much a visionary as Donald Trump. But I did 
like  
 the the way Maharishi combed his hair much better. :-)
 
  so
  your comparison is unfair.
 
 Dawn, please look at the subject line and look for the word Raja 
in  
 it. OK, good. His mad vision continues, in the ever-present and 
into  
 the future.
 
  I agree with you, that with what we have
  to work with today, democracy works out pretty well. his 
statements
  on democracy as a form of government were strictly in the 
context of
  democracy not producing the most capable leaders within 
government.
 
  the maharishi's principle was that we can quickly achieve 
tomorrow,
  ideals beyond our wildest dreams, far exceeding our present 
status.
  there's nothing wrong with that, is there?
 
 I would not nor could not except a person of low moral development 
as  
 an authority in such matters.

you are too cynical for my taste, Vaj, though I respect your opinion.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 the Maharishi was a visionary, never looking backwards to the 
 current possibilities, which you are doing, but always forward. so 
 your comparison is unfair. I agree with you, that with what we have 
 to work with today, democracy works out pretty well. his statements 
 on democracy as a form of government were strictly in the context 
of 
 democracy not producing the most capable leaders within government.
 
 the maharishi's principle was that we can quickly achieve tomorrow, 
 ideals beyond our wildest dreams, far exceeding our present status. 
 there's nothing wrong with that, is there?

Maharishi means great Seer. Democracy is damned because it allows 
collective consciousness to be the ruler in opposition to natural 
law. This is about to change as the world economic order is changing.

Natural Law is now becoming the primary force amongs ordinary day to 
day politics, thus rectifying our obligations towards a starving 
world. Our gratitude goes to the tireless efforts of The Masters of 
Wisdom, Guru Dev and their great messanger and visionary during these 
turbulent times; Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

How can we watch our brothers die of starvation and call ourselves 
men ?
- Maitreya

Now that communism is gone the next to go is capitalism
- Maharishi

http://maharishichannel.org/
http://shareintl.org/magazine/SI_current.htm

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[BillyG.]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Maharishi means great Seer. Democracy is damned because it allows 
 collective consciousness to be the ruler in opposition to natural 
 law.

That is correct and the position we will find ourselves in (even more)
if Obama wins, the ones who get Obama elected are the lowest common
demonator, as MMY puts it, i.e. those who wish to vote themselves
largess from the public treasury, which Obama is promising.


This is about to change as the world economic order is changing.

Changing for the worse, don't kid yourself, there's no Vedic
administration going on at the United Nations...world socialism, yes!
snip
 
 Now that communism is gone the next to go is capitalism
 - Maharishi

Which leaves Socialism with Obama at the helm.  All dysfunctional
forms of governments, and, btw, Obama has functional holes in his head
just like Bush, Cocaine is even worse! Ohh  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[nablusoss1008]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ 
wrote:
 
  Maharishi means great Seer. Democracy is damned because it allows 
  collective consciousness to be the ruler in opposition to natural 
  law.
 
 That is correct and the position we will find ourselves in (even 
more)
 if Obama wins, the ones who get Obama elected are the lowest common
 demonator, as MMY puts it, i.e. those who wish to vote themselves
 largess from the public treasury, which Obama is promising.
 
 
 This is about to change as the world economic order is changing.
 
 Changing for the worse, don't kid yourself, there's no Vedic
 administration going on at the United Nations...world socialism, 
yes!
 snip
  
  Now that communism is gone the next to go is capitalism
  - Maharishi
 
 Which leaves Socialism with Obama at the helm. 


Billy, please. The world is waiting for an american president who 
acts responsible. There is no more time for us to act as if 30.000 of 
our brothers an sisters are not dying uselessly every day. You might 
cling to your old world order, but what is progressing now is 100% 
according to Maharshi's ideas.

Your system of capitalism is being finished, it will soon be gone.
 
Obama might very well be the fellow to guide your nation into the new 
realization so frequently reminded by Maharishi who already in 1975 
inaugurated the Dawn of the Age of Enlightenment.

A new beginning for the world indeed.
 
This is the becoming of a new age, and you and me are very fortunate 
to witness this transformation.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 17, 2008, at 4:48 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote:


 I would not nor could not except a person of low moral development
 as
 an authority in such matters.

 you are too cynical for my taste, Vaj, though I respect your opinion.


Your post give me an interesting POV too, it's just often difficult to  
understand where you're coming from.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Peter]

--- On Fri, 10/17/08, BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: BillyG. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 8:02 PM
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Maharishi means great Seer. Democracy is damned
 because it allows 
  collective consciousness to be the ruler in opposition
 to natural 
  law.
 
 That is correct and the position we will find ourselves in
 (even more)
 if Obama wins, the ones who get Obama elected are the
 lowest common
 demonator, as MMY puts it, i.e. those who wish to
 vote themselves
 largess from the public treasury, which Obama is promising.
 
 
 This is about to change as the world economic order is
 changing.
 
 Changing for the worse, don't kid yourself, there's
 no Vedic
 administration going on at the United Nations...world
 socialism, yes!
 snip
  
  Now that communism is gone the next to go is
 capitalism
  - Maharishi
 
 Which leaves Socialism with Obama at the helm.  All
 dysfunctional
 forms of governments, and, btw, Obama has functional holes
 in his head
 just like Bush, Cocaine is even worse! Ohh  :-)

Billy G, what is a functional hole and how is it assessed? 






 
 
 
 
 
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 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
 Maharishi--the guy was obviously a deluded egomaniac.
 Do you know how important this is? NO democracies;
 NO starvation.

So you're saying if we get rid of all democracies,
we'll get rid of starvation as well?

(Ever notice how the more excited Vaj gets about
bashing Maharishi, the less coherent he becomes?)

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Robert]

 (snip)
 That is correct and the position we will find ourselves in (even 
more)
 if Obama wins, the ones who get Obama elected are the lowest common
 denominator...
 Which leaves Socialism with Obama at the helm.  All dysfunctional
 forms of governments, and, btw, Obama has functional holes in his 
head
 just like Bush, Cocaine is even worse! Ohh  :-)

Lowest common demoninator would apply more to the following:
Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II...

This is the most foolish interpretation...that Barack Obama would be 
the lowest common denominator...
Just the opposite...he has so much going against him, how could you 
possibly come to this conclusion...
Can you imagine a McCain/Palin presidency?
If that doesn't scare the hell our of you, than you are beyond the 
beyond.
How would the rest of the world look at the great old USA,
If we would possibly vote on this old man, and this 'you betcha'...
VP?
People around the world and and on every American street corner and 
corn fields, would think: Americans must be RETARDS...
We would serously be set back to 1865...or the stone age...
Thank God, the Maharishi's programs, if you take that all seriously,
Has provided an opportunity for us to get out of the pits, and to live 
up to the goals which are forefathers hoped we would reach.
R.G.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , sparaig LEnglish5@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
  wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , sparaig LEnglish5@
  wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo
  richardhughes103@
wrote:
   [...]
  But why would he stop doing the experiments, if there is
  anything
  to it at all it's the most amazing breakthrough in 
scientific
  undertsnding ever! I'm serious. The only abstract I could 
find
  in the Journal of Neuroscience claims to have found 
evidence
  of
  a field effect, if true it's massive.

 Because the ceiling effect made the resutls 
unpredictable/not-
replicable?
   
They wouldn't be non-replicable and that's the only thing
that would lift the research out of obscurity. If nothing
else, James Randi would give them a million bucks.
  
   OK, let me puut it another way: the results haven't been 
replicated
  lately,
   or so I surmise. The reason for that is...?
  
   And no, you have no idea WHAT they haven't been replicated: the 
most
   you can do is speculate.
 
  No, I can speculate and I can look around for evidence. So far, no
  evidence.
 
 
 
It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big 
news.
But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
   
  
   If it IS QM effects at body temperature at macro-distances 
within
  the brain,
   what possible reason would have to assume that it wouldn't show
   action at larger distances? What theoretical difference is there
   between 5 inches and 5,000 miles in this context?
 
  They don't survive the interference with other quantum states is 
the
  problem. Any coherent waveform is localized and remains so because
  it's like running into a wall of noise once out in the world
  and away from whatever it is pulled them together in the first
 place.
 
 Which random quantum states are you talking about that are 
exhibiting
 wave coherence in te general environment? You are trying to say 
that one
 tiny wave on its own, can stop a host of coherent waves acting in 
tandem
 and exponentially magnifying their power wit eac new addition of a
 fluctuation that joins their flow. One, or two, or even a million
 random, scattered wave functions cannot stand againt a coherent
 super-conductor-like formation.
 
 This is your fallacy. You are reading about microtubules in the 
brain
 that interact weakly with the quantum field, but people like Penrose
 don't understand yet that there can exist an array of neuronal 
activity
 that functions as one 'army', coherent and powerful. Travis already
 proved this twice in the International Journal of Neuroscience.

Talking of fallacies  Travis hasn't proved anything.

I was talking about a few coherent quantum waves not surviving very 
far when radiating into the general mish-mash. It applies to any 
waves whether they are in water, air or whatever. The coherent becomes
incoherenet when interfered with.

 
 OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ 
 wrote:
  It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big news.
  But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
  
  I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this puzzling.
  You do realise this is highly important and paradigm shifting,
  if true? Of course you do.
  
 
 **
 
 It's not surprising about quantum interaction at a distance:
 
 If two particles are entangled, they act in some respects as if 
they 
 were a single object, said Wootters. Everything that happens to 
one 
 of the entangled pairs instantly affects the other, no matter how 
far 
 apart each of the entangled particles is from the other. 
 
 Braunstein likens entanglement to a pair of ideal lovers who know 
 each other so well that they could answer for their lover even if 
 separated by long distances. 
 
 http://tinyurl.com/561c

All very clever but it doesn't have anything to do
with the brain. Particles in your mind don't become
entangled and then seperate to different parts of
space. This referes to laboratory experiments not
to the general run of events in nature.

I especially don't think this is any sort of explanation
of the ME, though it wouldn't surprise me if TM physicists
had bought it into the debate, they are pretty shameless.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ 
  wrote:
   It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big 
news.
   But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
   
   I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this puzzling.
   You do realise this is highly important and paradigm shifting,
   if true? Of course you do.
   
  
  **
  
  It's not surprising about quantum interaction at a distance:
  
  If two particles are entangled, they act in some respects as if 
 they 
  were a single object, said Wootters. Everything that happens to 
 one 
  of the entangled pairs instantly affects the other, no matter how 
 far 
  apart each of the entangled particles is from the other. 
  
  Braunstein likens entanglement to a pair of ideal lovers who 
know 
  each other so well that they could answer for their lover even if 
  separated by long distances. 
  
  http://tinyurl.com/561c
 
 All very clever but it doesn't have anything to do
 with the brain. Particles in your mind don't become
 entangled and then seperate to different parts of
 space. This referes to laboratory experiments not
 to the general run of events in nature.
 
 I especially don't think this is any sort of explanation
 of the ME, though it wouldn't surprise me if TM physicists
 had bought it into the debate, they are pretty shameless.

In fact I seem to remember Hagelin expouinding on this as
an explanation for jyotish in one of his more way-out
lectures. I wish I had rememebered more of the details
but I was too busy crying into my hands...

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 sparaig wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote:

  off_world_beings wrote:
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:


  On Oct 13, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Dick Mays wrote:
 
  
  
  The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in
  national life


  Hate to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO!  (msg 193626)
 
  These guys are about as predictable as they come.
 
  
  
  On the other hand, do you think the world would be better carrying on as
  it was, as a greedy, corporate controlled, oppressor of the third world,
  polluter of the atmosphere, killer of life in the ocean.
 
  Something dramatic had to happen. The ME will protect from the worst of
  the upheaval.
 
  I never believed there could ba smooth transition. What is great about
  this is that people are realising that even without the capitalist
  system going rampant as they were used to...everything is
  ultimately...ok.Life is good.
 
  OffWorld

  OTOH, we could be going into a dark world with no governments just 
  corporations running everything.  No rights just slaves to the 
  corporations.   Ala Blade Runner.
 
  
 
  Bah, Merchants of Venus or Gladiator at Law were two much better examples
  of that sort of thing.
 
 
  Lawson
 Maybe so, but I picked Blade Runner because Ridley Scott in his 
 commentary on the final cut version talks about it being a totally 
 corporate state.  Also Alien vs Predator Requiem (as it's director 
 points out) explores how the world in Alien became corporate run.


Yeah, but... the central theme of Bladerunner was NOT the corporate
state. DOn't get me wrong, great movie and Phillip K. Dick was a great
writer, but the theme wasn't examining the future from a corporate state POV...
that was peripheral to the story. In Merchants of Venus, its ALL about corporate
life. There's a great scene where the President of the USA is helping the heros
escape from the White House, saying that he would hold them (the corporate
hounds) off as long as possible: they had forgot to rescind his ability to give
the military orders.


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 15, 2008, at 11:18 AM, sparaig wrote:
 
 
  Also, it's of little interest if the Buddhist and Hindu research on
  samadhi is relevant to just me. What made the Gamma-coherence samadhi
  research so interesting was not only that it was the first to
  replicate the samadhi of Patanjali yogins, but it was also the first
  recent example of a highly coherent EEG state outside of waking,
  sleeping or dreaming. That's why it's of major interest and received
  such worldwide acclaim.
 
 
  Who says that the state is a non-waking, dreaming or sleeping state?
 
  Cites?
 
 That's why it's called (in Hindu parlance) The Fourth, Turiya or  
 Turiyatita, beyond even the Fourth (the other three being waking,  
 sleeping and dreaming states). Gaudapada would be a good start.
 
 In the Tibetan tradition these yogis refer to the state as dmigs-med  
 snying-rje, compassion with no reference point or rigpa  
 cogbzhag, freely resting in vidya or pure knowledge, the  
 veda (loose translation). It's really the type of thing that one has  
 to become accustomed to before it could be understood, but it's not  
 exactly like any of the other states but the other states can be  
 accessed from it.
 
 A standard EEG text might help you understand what the EEG is like  
 for waking, dreaming and sleeping. I would suspect if an unsuspecting  
 scientist were to witness an EEG of a yogi in samadhi without  
 knowledge of the subject being examining, they would think it was a  
 patient with some neuro-pathology, like a brain tumor.


But I cn draw parallels to the EEG and other physiological correlates  of the
TM Transcendental Consciousness state to the descriptions of Turiya that
 require far less hand-waving, and in fact, while the EEG is strking, it 
doesn't 
resemble any pathology that I am  aware of.

http://web.me.com/lawsonenglish/Site/Meditation_EEG.html


Things that make you go h...

And one cntral point: the thalamic activity of the EEG of the BUddhist 
meditators
goes up during their meditation activity, while it goes down during TM practice.

As I have already pointed out, you can describe the broad behavior of the brain
in various states merely based on the activity of the thalamus:

in waking, sensory data comesinto the thalamus and is passed into the cortext 
and then loops back to merge with the raw sensory input. Many neurocientists
consider this feedback looping to be the explanation for thinking and the like.

In deep sleep, the thalamus doesn't allow data to pass into the brain OR to loop
back into the brain and the brain is in a very dormant state with little 
activity.

In dreaming, the thalamus doesn't allow data into the brean, but the feedback
loops continue, so the dreamer is left alone with whatever residual sensory 
content
is going on in the brain without interference from teh outside world.

In the TM samadhi, the thalamus doesn't allow sensory data in OR feedback 
loops, 
but the brain is still in an alert mode. No thought, no images, no dreaming, 
not asleep,
not awake, not aware OF anything... just alert. Pure awareNESS.

A strikingly simple variation in activity of a part of the brain that shows very
distinct behavior for each of hte major normal states AND between each of them
and the TM Transcendental  COnsciousness state. Turiya indeed. Like all and none
at the same time. The basis of consciousness. Alert neurological activity 
without
mental content.

Lawson

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Bhairitu]

sparaig wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 sparaig wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote:
   
   
 off_world_beings wrote:
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
   
   
   
 On Oct 13, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Dick Mays wrote:

 
 
 
 The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in
 national life
   
   
   
 Hate to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO!  (msg 193626)

 These guys are about as predictable as they come.

 
 
 
 On the other hand, do you think the world would be better carrying on as
 it was, as a greedy, corporate controlled, oppressor of the third world,
 polluter of the atmosphere, killer of life in the ocean.

 Something dramatic had to happen. The ME will protect from the worst of
 the upheaval.

 I never believed there could ba smooth transition. What is great about
 this is that people are realising that even without the capitalist
 system going rampant as they were used to...everything is
 ultimately...ok.Life is good.

 OffWorld
   
   
 OTOH, we could be going into a dark world with no governments just 
 corporations running everything.  No rights just slaves to the 
 corporations.   Ala Blade Runner.

 
 
 Bah, Merchants of Venus or Gladiator at Law were two much better examples
 of that sort of thing.


 Lawson
   
 Maybe so, but I picked Blade Runner because Ridley Scott in his 
 commentary on the final cut version talks about it being a totally 
 corporate state.  Also Alien vs Predator Requiem (as it's director 
 points out) explores how the world in Alien became corporate run.

 

 Yeah, but... the central theme of Bladerunner was NOT the corporate
 state. DOn't get me wrong, great movie and Phillip K. Dick was a great
 writer, but the theme wasn't examining the future from a corporate state 
 POV...
 that was peripheral to the story. In Merchants of Venus, its ALL about 
 corporate
 life. There's a great scene where the President of the USA is helping the 
 heros
 escape from the White House, saying that he would hold them (the corporate
 hounds) off as long as possible: they had forgot to rescind his ability to 
 give
 the military orders.


 Lawson
Let's see the hands of those who've seen Merchants of Venus or 
Gladiator at Law. Almost no one.  Let's see the hands of those who 
have seen Blade Runner.  Many.  So I used Blade Runner, though indeed 
not the central theme, as an familiar example.  The first two of course 
were not made into movies though is a Merchants of Venus which is a 
comedy probably NOT the same as the book.   There is also Outland 
which chances are more have seen than read the first two stories.  It 
was about corporate abuse (the mining company) on Mars.   I'm sure we 
can find even better films about corporatism too.  Also the series 
Charlie Jade series deals with corporate rule.  But now that you've 
mentioned those books I may see if the local Rasputin's has those 
(they sell paperbacks for $1 each).

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[..]
  Lawson
 Let's see the hands of those who've seen Merchants of Venus or 
 Gladiator at Law. Almost no one.  Let's see the hands of those who 
 have seen Blade Runner.  Many.  So I used Blade Runner, though indeed 
 not the central theme, as an familiar example.  The first two of course 
 were not made into movies though is a Merchants of Venus which is a 
 comedy probably NOT the same as the book.   There is also Outland 
 which chances are more have seen than read the first two stories.  It 
 was about corporate abuse (the mining company) on Mars.   I'm sure we 
 can find even better films about corporatism too.  Also the series 
 Charlie Jade series deals with corporate rule.  But now that you've 
 mentioned those books I may see if the local Rasputin's has those 
 (they sell paperbacks for $1 each).


My bad, I meant Space Merchants, anyway.


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo richardhughes103@
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , sparaig LEnglish5@
 wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo richardhughes103@
   wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , sparaig LEnglish5@
   wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Hugo
   richardhughes103@
 wrote:
[...]
   But why would he stop doing the experiments, if there is
   anything
   to it at all it's the most amazing breakthrough in
 scientific
   undertsnding ever! I'm serious. The only abstract I could
 find
   in the Journal of Neuroscience claims to have found
 evidence
   of
   a field effect, if true it's massive.
 
  Because the ceiling effect made the resutls
 unpredictable/not-
 replicable?

 They wouldn't be non-replicable and that's the only thing
 that would lift the research out of obscurity. If nothing
 else, James Randi would give them a million bucks.
   
OK, let me puut it another way: the results haven't been
 replicated
   lately,
or so I surmise. The reason for that is...?
   
And no, you have no idea WHAT they haven't been replicated: the
 most
you can do is speculate.
  
   No, I can speculate and I can look around for evidence. So far, no
   evidence.
  
  
  
 It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big
 news.
 But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.

   
If it IS QM effects at body temperature at macro-distances
 within
   the brain,
what possible reason would have to assume that it wouldn't show
action at larger distances? What theoretical difference is there
between 5 inches and 5,000 miles in this context?
  
   They don't survive the interference with other quantum states is
 the
   problem. Any coherent waveform is localized and remains so because
   it's like running into a wall of noise once out in the world
   and away from whatever it is pulled them together in the first
  place.
 
  Which random quantum states are you talking about that are
 exhibiting
  wave coherence in te general environment? You are trying to say
 that one
  tiny wave on its own, can stop a host of coherent waves acting in
 tandem
  and exponentially magnifying their power wit eac new addition of a
  fluctuation that joins their flow. One, or two, or even a million
  random, scattered wave functions cannot stand againt a coherent
  super-conductor-like formation.
 
  This is your fallacy. You are reading about microtubules in the
 brain
  that interact weakly with the quantum field, but people like Penrose
  don't understand yet that there can exist an array of neuronal
 activity
  that functions as one 'army', coherent and powerful. Travis already
  proved this twice in the International Journal of Neuroscience.

 Talking of fallacies  Travis hasn't proved anything.

 I was talking about a few coherent quantum waves not surviving very
 far when radiating into the general mish-mash. It applies to any
 waves whether they are in water, air or whatever. The coherent becomes
 incoherenet when interfered with.

Hugo. Where did you read about coherent waves getting dissapated? Waves
given a signifiacant, but not overwhelming power in Peru on the ocean
get BIGGER and more powerful as the cross the Pacific, sometimes
building up over thousands of miles to giant tsunamis.

There is no book you have read that states that highly coherent wave
functions in the electromagnetic field dissapate quickly. You are making
it up.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , bob_brigante no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
  wrote:
   It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big news.
   But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
  
   I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this puzzling.
   You do realise this is highly important and paradigm shifting,
   if true? Of course you do.
  
 
  **
 
  It's not surprising about quantum interaction at a distance:
 
  If two particles are entangled, they act in some respects as if
 they
  were a single object, said Wootters. Everything that happens to
 one
  of the entangled pairs instantly affects the other, no matter how
 far
  apart each of the entangled particles is from the other.
 
  Braunstein likens entanglement to a pair of ideal lovers who know
  each other so well that they could answer for their lover even if
  separated by long distances.
 
  http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c

 All very clever but it doesn't have anything to do
 with the brain. Particles in your mind don't become
 entangled and then seperate to different parts of
 space. This referes to laboratory experiments not
 to the general run of events in nature.



Incorrect Hugo, physicists believe that every particle has an entangled
twin somewhere in the universe. All particles.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , yifuxero [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 ---Right, may or may not be true. I'd say it is...; but nevetheless,
 it's not Being that will capture the imagination and fascination of
 humanity.  It will be SIDHIS.  The minute even a small number of X-
 Men/Women appear on the earth with actual demonstrations of (say,
 healing); the world will change in a flash and we will be ready to
 get into the real New Age. But just pure Consciousness?  Boring.

The body is being prepared for x-man status, but believe me, your naive
notion that it is for 'healing' suggests inexperience thereof.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[yifuxero]

---Explain yourself!  What's wrong with miraculous healings?  X-men 
episode 3 had a miracle healer.  

 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , yifuxero yifuxero@
 wrote:
 
  ---Right, may or may not be true. I'd say it is...; but 
nevetheless,
  it's not Being that will capture the imagination and 
fascination of
  humanity.  It will be SIDHIS.  The minute even a small number of 
X-
  Men/Women appear on the earth with actual demonstrations of (say,
  healing); the world will change in a flash and we will be ready to
  get into the real New Age. But just pure Consciousness?  
Boring.
 
 The body is being prepared for x-man status, but believe me, your 
naive
 notion that it is for 'healing' suggests inexperience thereof.
 
 OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Stu]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
 
 
  On Oct 15, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Hugo wrote:
  More
 recently
  this same phenomenon has been witnessed in even tropical climates,
  where typically decomposition occurs even more quickly.
 Nonetheless,
  the yogins remained quite life-like for days.

I saw a documentary on this subject years ago.  They x-rayed a monk who
had been mummified and on display in a Temple in Sri Lanka.  He had
died in the lotus position and did not rot in the moist climate.

After some interviews and tests they came to the conclusion that the
monks drank salt water and fasted in the days before death.  Apparently
this is part of the death ritual.  The high concentrations of salt work
as a preservative and keep the body from decomposing.

s.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , bob_brigante no_reply@
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
   wrote:
It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big 
news.
But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
   
I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this puzzling.
You do realise this is highly important and paradigm shifting,
if true? Of course you do.
   
  
   **
  
   It's not surprising about quantum interaction at a distance:
  
   If two particles are entangled, they act in some respects as if
  they
   were a single object, said Wootters. Everything that happens to
  one
   of the entangled pairs instantly affects the other, no matter 
how
  far
   apart each of the entangled particles is from the other.
  
   Braunstein likens entanglement to a pair of ideal lovers who 
know
   each other so well that they could answer for their lover even 
if
   separated by long distances.
  
   http://tinyurl.com/561c http://tinyurl.com/561c
 
  All very clever but it doesn't have anything to do
  with the brain. Particles in your mind don't become
  entangled and then seperate to different parts of
  space. This referes to laboratory experiments not
  to the general run of events in nature.
 
 
 
 Incorrect Hugo, physicists believe that every particle has an 
entangled
 twin somewhere in the universe. All particles.

Yes but it's the bits that make up the bits that make up particles
that are connected, and seperating them can only be done in a 
laboratory. It isn't an explanation for anything mystical.


 
 OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ 
wrote:
 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Peter drpetersutphen@
  wrote:
  
   You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma? 
When
  there is no way to disprove the theory which is the higher-order
  explanation for the empirical evidence. Let's see, our self-chosen
  criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well, we're responsible 
for that.
  These self-same criteria go down, well, we're responsible for 
that too,
  but now we have a brand new ad hoc explanation as to why they go 
down:
  phase transition. Notice the a priori assumption that the ME is an
  absolute given and the ad hoc explanation is to rationalize the
  contradictory evidence away.
  
   I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific 
theory
  which means it is open to nullification. So, John, what empirical
  findings would nullify the ME?
  
  
  
  Very simple. Have 1,000 sidhas sit on one room and do flying at a
  certain time. Have a bunch of non-meditators sit in another room 
and
  unaware of the first. Measure  the second groups' brainwave 
changes and
  other responses. If nothing happens you'll know. Done deal.
  
  Travis had something similar to this published in the 
Interntaional
  Journal of Neuroscience twice !...and you are an anti-science 
freak
  because you want to throw this and other science out the window.
  
  OffWorld
 
 
 Problem is, there's a ceiling effect on alpha coherence during TM, 
at least
 as measured in the general EEG experiments. Travis stopped doing 
those
 experiments years ago, I believe, or you would have seen larger, 
more carefully
 conducted ones published.
 
 Lawson


But why would he stop doing the experiments, if there is anything
to it at all it's the most amazing breakthrough in scientific
undertsnding ever! I'm serious. The only abstract I could find
in the Journal of Neuroscience claims to have found evidence of
a field effect, if true it's massive.

I suspect faulty controls and would like to see it replicated a few
hundred times by independents. But even if it turns out to be true
what does it mean for the stock market? Does increased coherence
make you more moral and less likely to gamble away peoples savings?
I think that one thing FFL has proved is that you don't get any
kind of consensus on anything between people who have been doing TM
for years, so what can you predict for society if we were all
doing it?

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ 
 wrote:
  
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
   mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Peter drpetersutphen@
   wrote:
   
You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma? 
 When
   there is no way to disprove the theory which is the higher-order
   explanation for the empirical evidence. Let's see, our self-chosen
   criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well, we're responsible 
 for that.
   These self-same criteria go down, well, we're responsible for 
 that too,
   but now we have a brand new ad hoc explanation as to why they go 
 down:
   phase transition. Notice the a priori assumption that the ME is an
   absolute given and the ad hoc explanation is to rationalize the
   contradictory evidence away.
   
I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific 
 theory
   which means it is open to nullification. So, John, what empirical
   findings would nullify the ME?
   
   
   
   Very simple. Have 1,000 sidhas sit on one room and do flying at a
   certain time. Have a bunch of non-meditators sit in another room 
 and
   unaware of the first. Measure  the second groups' brainwave 
 changes and
   other responses. If nothing happens you'll know. Done deal.
   
   Travis had something similar to this published in the 
 Interntaional
   Journal of Neuroscience twice !...and you are an anti-science 
 freak
   because you want to throw this and other science out the window.
   
   OffWorld
  
  
  Problem is, there's a ceiling effect on alpha coherence during TM, 
 at least
  as measured in the general EEG experiments. Travis stopped doing 
 those
  experiments years ago, I believe, or you would have seen larger, 
 more carefully
  conducted ones published.
  
  Lawson
 
 
 But why would he stop doing the experiments, if there is anything
 to it at all it's the most amazing breakthrough in scientific
 undertsnding ever! I'm serious. The only abstract I could find
 in the Journal of Neuroscience claims to have found evidence of
 a field effect, if true it's massive.

Because the ceiling effect made the resutls unpredictable/not-replicable?
 
 I suspect faulty controls and would like to see it replicated a few
 hundred times by independents. But even if it turns out to be true
 what does it mean for the stock market? Does increased coherence
 make you more moral and less likely to gamble away peoples savings?
 I think that one thing FFL has proved is that you don't get any
 kind of consensus on anything between people who have been doing TM
 for years, so what can you predict for society if we were all
 doing it?



Shrug. There's suggestive evidence that extreme alpha coherence in the brain
might be due to quantum interaction effects. Vaj's favorite Buddhist meditation
research is touted by Quantum Mind fans like Hamerhoff as evidence of
the 40Mhz EEG coherence due to QM effects in the brain that Hamerhoff has
been making for many years.

Whatever.

Lawson

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 15, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Hugo wrote:


Regarding the paper under discussion, I haven't found anything
that unequivocally demonstrates that consciouness has a quantum
element, let alone one that can propagate outside the body. In
fact, most people say it's unneccesary/impossible! Which is
why I think it should be tried again and again, and independently
until it's demonstrated one way or the other.


Deaths have occurred recently where yogis, going into a type of  
suspended animation at the moment of death, have been witnessed.  
Despite the fact their bodies show no signs of life (no pulse, no  
breathing) their skin remains supple as if they were alive, often for  
several days. Then after a significant delay, rigor mortis sets in.  
Maybe you read my post here on the death of the last Karmapa. His  
death was witnessed, by physicians, in a US hospital. More recently  
this same phenomenon has been witnessed in even tropical climates,  
where typically decomposition occurs even more quickly. Nonetheless,  
the yogins remained quite life-like for days.


Because of his interest in science, HH the Dalai Lama has a team of  
world-class scientists ready to investigate, first hand, the next  
occurrence. So in just a couple of years, it's very likely we'll know  
quite a bit more about this.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 15, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Hugo wrote:
 
  Regarding the paper under discussion, I haven't found anything
  that unequivocally demonstrates that consciouness has a quantum
  element, let alone one that can propagate outside the body. In
  fact, most people say it's unneccesary/impossible! Which is
  why I think it should be tried again and again, and independently
  until it's demonstrated one way or the other.
 
 Deaths have occurred recently where yogis, going into a type of  
 suspended animation at the moment of death, have been witnessed.  
 Despite the fact their bodies show no signs of life (no pulse, no  
 breathing) their skin remains supple as if they were alive, often 
for  
 several days. Then after a significant delay, rigor mortis sets 
in.  
 Maybe you read my post here on the death of the last Karmapa. His  
 death was witnessed, by physicians, in a US hospital. More 
recently  
 this same phenomenon has been witnessed in even tropical climates,  
 where typically decomposition occurs even more quickly. 
Nonetheless,  
 the yogins remained quite life-like for days.
 
 Because of his interest in science, HH the Dalai Lama has a team 
of  
 world-class scientists ready to investigate, first hand, the next  
 occurrence. So in just a couple of years, it's very likely we'll 
know  
 quite a bit more about this.


I didn't see the post but I've just had a read about his life and 
death elsewhere on the net. Fascinating. What it says about man 
and how it fits in to our knowledge about the mind and it's 
capabilities is beyond me for now.

There is a tradition in christianity for saints to be dug up
uncorrupted after years in the tomb, but after having seen the 
photos they don't look too hot to me and I assumed it was due
to the particular preservation qualities of the soil. Karmapa
seems like something different again. Maybe there is more to
all of this.

I Look forward to anything the Dalai Lama comes up with. I do
like a mystery.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ 
 wrote:
[...]
   But why would he stop doing the experiments, if there is anything
   to it at all it's the most amazing breakthrough in scientific
   undertsnding ever! I'm serious. The only abstract I could find
   in the Journal of Neuroscience claims to have found evidence of
   a field effect, if true it's massive.
  
  Because the ceiling effect made the resutls unpredictable/not-
 replicable?
 
 They wouldn't be non-replicable and that's the only thing
 that would lift the research out of obscurity. If nothing
 else, James Randi would give them a million bucks.

OK, let me puut it another way: the results haven't been replicated lately,
or so I surmise. The reason for that is...?

And no, you have no idea WHAT they haven't been replicated: the most
you can do is speculate.

 
  
   I suspect faulty controls and would like to see it replicated a 
 few
   hundred times by independents. But even if it turns out to be true
   what does it mean for the stock market? Does increased coherence
   make you more moral and less likely to gamble away peoples 
 savings?
   I think that one thing FFL has proved is that you don't get any
   kind of consensus on anything between people who have been doing 
 TM
   for years, so what can you predict for society if we were all
   doing it?
  
  
  
  Shrug. There's suggestive evidence that extreme alpha coherence in 
 the brain
  might be due to quantum interaction effects. Vaj's favorite 
 Buddhist meditation
  research is touted by Quantum Mind fans like Hamerhoff as evidence 
 of
  the 40Mhz EEG coherence due to QM effects in the brain that 
 Hamerhoff has
  been making for many years.
  
  Whatever.
 
 It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big news.
 But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
 

If it IS QM effects at body temperature at macro-distances within the brain,
what possible reason would have to assume that it wouldn't show
action at larger distances? What theoretical difference is there between
5 inches and 5,000 miles in this context?


 I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this puzzling.
 You do realise this is highly important and paradigm shifting,
 if true? Of course you do.
 

Quite so.

Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 15, 2008, at 2:52 AM, sparaig wrote:
 
  Shrug. There's suggestive evidence that extreme alpha coherence in  
  the brain
  might be due to quantum interaction effects. Vaj's favorite  
  Buddhist meditation
  research is touted by Quantum Mind fans like Hamerhoff as evidence of
  the 40Mhz EEG coherence due to QM effects in the brain that  
  Hamerhoff has
  been making for many years.
 
 
 Actually the theory was worked out by Roger Penrose and Stu Hameroff  
 and is very preliminary theory. I don't think anyone takes it truly  
 seriously, but it is interesting theoretical fun.
 

Well, preliminary or not, Hameroff and Penrose have been talking about it
for years and THEY take it seriously, trust me.

 Also, it's of little interest if the Buddhist and Hindu research on  
 samadhi is relevant to just me. What made the Gamma-coherence samadhi  
 research so interesting was not only that it was the first to  
 replicate the samadhi of Patanjali yogins, but it was also the first  
 recent example of a highly coherent EEG state outside of waking,  
 sleeping or dreaming. That's why it's of major interest and received  
 such worldwide acclaim.


Who says that the state is a non-waking, dreaming or sleeping state?

Cites?

Lawso

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo 
richardhughes103@ 
  wrote:
 [...]
But why would he stop doing the experiments, if there is 
anything
to it at all it's the most amazing breakthrough in scientific
undertsnding ever! I'm serious. The only abstract I could find
in the Journal of Neuroscience claims to have found evidence 
of
a field effect, if true it's massive.
   
   Because the ceiling effect made the resutls unpredictable/not-
  replicable?
  
  They wouldn't be non-replicable and that's the only thing
  that would lift the research out of obscurity. If nothing
  else, James Randi would give them a million bucks.
 
 OK, let me puut it another way: the results haven't been replicated 
lately,
 or so I surmise. The reason for that is...?
 
 And no, you have no idea WHAT they haven't been replicated: the most
 you can do is speculate.

No, I can speculate and I can look around for evidence. So far, no
evidence.



  It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big news.
  But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
  
 
 If it IS QM effects at body temperature at macro-distances within 
the brain,
 what possible reason would have to assume that it wouldn't show
 action at larger distances? What theoretical difference is there 
 between 5 inches and 5,000 miles in this context?

They don't survive the interference with other quantum states is the 
problem. Any coherent waveform is localized and remains so because
it's like running into a wall of noise once out in the world
and away from whatever it is pulled them together in the first place.
And no-one knows how they could survive, hence my suspicion of
this work. I'm  getting all this from a book which is a collection
of current theories on consciousness, very interesting but the 
ME appears to have no place as yet.


  I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this puzzling.
  You do realise this is highly important and paradigm shifting,
  if true? Of course you do.
  
 
 Quite so.

Good man.
 
 Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[curtisdeltablues]

If a person is showing a slower rate of decomposition after death I
think one of the first places to look would be their body's bacterial
makeup.  Perhaps certain diets promote or slow down decay due to
alkaline acid balance and the type of bacteria that thrive in that
internal environment. It is the internal bacteria that is the cause
for a body's decay at first, right?

The last thing I would consider was the state of mind of the person
who died.  There are so many other physical causes to rule out first
if in fact this report is more than just the subjective opinion of a
person who would like to see something special happening in a special
person's death ala Yogananda's followers who made similar claims.

The incorruptibility of the body is an attempt to see some concrete
evidence that a person has achieved more than a pleasant state of
mind.  That they have achieved something magical.  I don't believe we
are close to this conclusion based on a person reporting that a body
rotted slower.  I would like to hear the opinion from that ghoulish
group of forensic scientists who have a body decay farm.  They are the
experts on how fast a body decays and have quantified it.  They would
know if something unusual was going on in a person's decay rate under
controlled conditions.   


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 15, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Hugo wrote:
 
  Regarding the paper under discussion, I haven't found anything
  that unequivocally demonstrates that consciouness has a quantum
  element, let alone one that can propagate outside the body. In
  fact, most people say it's unneccesary/impossible! Which is
  why I think it should be tried again and again, and independently
  until it's demonstrated one way or the other.
 
 Deaths have occurred recently where yogis, going into a type of  
 suspended animation at the moment of death, have been witnessed.  
 Despite the fact their bodies show no signs of life (no pulse, no  
 breathing) their skin remains supple as if they were alive, often for  
 several days. Then after a significant delay, rigor mortis sets in.  
 Maybe you read my post here on the death of the last Karmapa. His  
 death was witnessed, by physicians, in a US hospital. More recently  
 this same phenomenon has been witnessed in even tropical climates,  
 where typically decomposition occurs even more quickly. Nonetheless,  
 the yogins remained quite life-like for days.
 
 Because of his interest in science, HH the Dalai Lama has a team of  
 world-class scientists ready to investigate, first hand, the next  
 occurrence. So in just a couple of years, it's very likely we'll know  
 quite a bit more about this.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 
 
 --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this
  puzzling.
  You do realise this is highly important and paradigm
  shifting,
  if true? Of course you do.
 
 The ME is a wonderful narrative, but as science it is junk. I think 
John knows this in his heart, but won't accept it. The ME is now 
official TM dogma. It is never questioned and no further research is 
forthcoming. Its validity is exhorted over and over to the faithful 
who know next to nothing about science. Any prima facia evidence to 
contradict it is explained away by adding new pieces the 
the theory. Again, as science it is pathetic, but as a spiritual 
narrative it is delightful.


It must be a drag being a TM phycisist, you can't insist on
empiricism as it's the opposite of vedic science. You can't
just claim to like the food and the company and hang around, if
you want a management position, because science is so important
to the TMO's image.

The only solution is to sell your soul and get on with pushing
the UF dogma. This must have happened to John as he seems content
to be considered to have finished Einsteins work, which is
something I'd keep quiet about outside the TMO. Maybe he's  
happier being a big fish in a small pond than an unknown in
the outside world.

Regarding the paper under discussion, I haven't found anything
that unequivocally demonstrates that consciouness has a quantum
element, let alone one that can propagate outside the body. In
fact, most people say it's unneccesary/impossible! Which is
why I think it should be tried again and again, and independently
until it's demonstrated one way or the other.

I heard Lawrence Domash said to MMY that we shouldn't be
claiming to know consciousness is the UF as we don't know
about that level yet. To which MMY replied We are the leaders 
of this field!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 15, 2008, at 11:43 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:


If a person is showing a slower rate of decomposition after death I
think one of the first places to look would be their body's bacterial
makeup.  Perhaps certain diets promote or slow down decay due to
alkaline acid balance and the type of bacteria that thrive in that
internal environment. It is the internal bacteria that is the cause
for a body's decay at first, right?

The last thing I would consider was the state of mind of the person
who died.  There are so many other physical causes to rule out first
if in fact this report is more than just the subjective opinion of a
person who would like to see something special happening in a special
person's death ala Yogananda's followers who made similar claims.

The incorruptibility of the body is an attempt to see some concrete
evidence that a person has achieved more than a pleasant state of
mind.  That they have achieved something magical.  I don't believe we
are close to this conclusion based on a person reporting that a body
rotted slower.  I would like to hear the opinion from that ghoulish
group of forensic scientists who have a body decay farm.  They are the
experts on how fast a body decays and have quantified it.  They would
know if something unusual was going on in a person's decay rate under
controlled conditions.


Well listen to the last Karmapa's physicians comments and see what  
you think. For rigor mortis not to set in for several days is quite  
unusual:


http://www.khandro.net/16Karmapa_80.htm

(excerpt of above)

Even in death, His Holiness did not cease to amaze the Western  
medical establishment At forty-eight hours after his death, his chest  
was warm right above his heart. This was how it happened.


Situ Rinpoche [one of the younger tulkus] took me into the room  
where His Holiness was lying. First I had to wash my hands completely  
and put a mask on. And Situ Rinpoche walks in and puts his robe over  
his mouth, as if even breathing might disturb the samadhi of His  
Holiness. And he took my hand, and he put my hand in the center of  
His Holiness' chest and then made me feel it, and it felt warm.


And it's funny, because since I had washed my hands in cold water,  
my Western medical mind said, 'Well, my hands must still be a little  
cold.' So I warmed my hands up, and then I said to Situ Rinpoche,  
'Could I feel his chest one more time?' He said, 'Sure,' and he  
pulled down His Holiness' robe and put my hand on his chest again. My  
hands were warm at this point, and his chest was warmer  than my  
hand. To check, I moved my hand to either side of his chest, and it  
was cool. And then I felt again in the middle, and it was warm.


I also pinched his skin, and it was still pliable and completely  
normal. Mind you, although there is some variation, certainly by  
thirty-six hours, the skin is just like dough. And after forty-eight  
hours, his skin was just like yours and mine. It was as if he weren't  
dead.  I pinched his skin, and it went right back. The turgor was  
completely normal.


Shortly after we left the room, the surgeon came out and said, 'He's  
warm. He's warm.' And then it became, the nursing staff was saying,  
'Is he still warm?' After all that had happened, they just accepted  
it. As much as all that had happened might have gone against their  
medical training, their cultural beliefs, and their  religious  
upbringing, by this point they had no trouble just accepting what was  
actually occurring.


This is, of course, quite in keeping with traditional Tibetan  
experience, that realized people like His Holiness, after their  
respiration and heart have stopped [the outer dissolution], abide in  
a state of profound meditation for some time [the 'ground luminosity'  
that follows the inner dissolution,] with rigor mortis not setting in  
during that period.


One thing I should mention is the quality of the room where he was  
lying. The tulkus said, 'His Holiness is in samadhi' [i.e., resting  
in the dharmakaya of ground luminosity]. What people experienced in  
that room seemed to depend on varying levels of perception.


I asked Trungpa Rinpoche about it. He said that when he walked into  
that room, it was as if a vacuum had sucked out all the mental  
obstacles. There was no mental chatter. It was absolutely still.  
Everything was starkly simple and direct. He said that it was so one- 
pointed that there was no room for any kind of obstacle at all. And  
he said that it was absolutely magnificent.


My experience wasn't quite like that.  To me, the air felt thin and  
there was a quiet that was unsettling in a way. There was no  
familiarity, no background noise. It was like being in some other  
realm, one that was absolutely still and vast. It was just His  
Holiness' body in the center of the room, draped in his brocade robe,  
and you felt as if you didn't even want to breathe. That was my  
experience.  It felt as if anything I did 

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
no_reply@ 
  wrote:
   

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Peter 
drpetersutphen@
wrote:

 You know when a science is no longer a science and just 
dogma? 
  When
there is no way to disprove the theory which is the higher-
order
explanation for the empirical evidence. Let's see, our self-
chosen
criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well, we're 
responsible 
  for that.
These self-same criteria go down, well, we're responsible for 
  that too,
but now we have a brand new ad hoc explanation as to why they 
go 
  down:
phase transition. Notice the a priori assumption that the ME 
is an
absolute given and the ad hoc explanation is to rationalize 
the
contradictory evidence away.

 I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a 
scientific 
  theory
which means it is open to nullification. So, John, what 
empirical
findings would nullify the ME?



Very simple. Have 1,000 sidhas sit on one room and do flying 
at a
certain time. Have a bunch of non-meditators sit in another 
room 
  and
unaware of the first. Measure  the second groups' brainwave 
  changes and
other responses. If nothing happens you'll know. Done deal.

Travis had something similar to this published in the 
  Interntaional
Journal of Neuroscience twice !...and you are an anti-
science 
  freak
because you want to throw this and other science out the 
window.

OffWorld
   
   
   Problem is, there's a ceiling effect on alpha coherence during 
TM, 
  at least
   as measured in the general EEG experiments. Travis stopped 
doing 
  those
   experiments years ago, I believe, or you would have seen 
larger, 
  more carefully
   conducted ones published.
   
   Lawson
  
  
  But why would he stop doing the experiments, if there is anything
  to it at all it's the most amazing breakthrough in scientific
  undertsnding ever! I'm serious. The only abstract I could find
  in the Journal of Neuroscience claims to have found evidence of
  a field effect, if true it's massive.
 
 Because the ceiling effect made the resutls unpredictable/not-
replicable?

They wouldn't be non-replicable and that's the only thing
that would lift the research out of obscurity. If nothing
else, James Randi would give them a million bucks.

 
  I suspect faulty controls and would like to see it replicated a 
few
  hundred times by independents. But even if it turns out to be true
  what does it mean for the stock market? Does increased coherence
  make you more moral and less likely to gamble away peoples 
savings?
  I think that one thing FFL has proved is that you don't get any
  kind of consensus on anything between people who have been doing 
TM
  for years, so what can you predict for society if we were all
  doing it?
 
 
 
 Shrug. There's suggestive evidence that extreme alpha coherence in 
the brain
 might be due to quantum interaction effects. Vaj's favorite 
Buddhist meditation
 research is touted by Quantum Mind fans like Hamerhoff as evidence 
of
 the 40Mhz EEG coherence due to QM effects in the brain that 
Hamerhoff has
 been making for many years.
 
 Whatever.

It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big news.
But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.

I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this puzzling.
You do realise this is highly important and paradigm shifting,
if true? Of course you do.

 
 Lawson

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Bhairitu]

sparaig wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 off_world_beings wrote:
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
   
   
 On Oct 13, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Dick Mays wrote:

 
 
 The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in
 national life
   
   
 Hate to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO!  (msg 193626)

 These guys are about as predictable as they come.

 
 
 On the other hand, do you think the world would be better carrying on as
 it was, as a greedy, corporate controlled, oppressor of the third world,
 polluter of the atmosphere, killer of life in the ocean.

 Something dramatic had to happen. The ME will protect from the worst of
 the upheaval.

 I never believed there could ba smooth transition. What is great about
 this is that people are realising that even without the capitalist
 system going rampant as they were used to...everything is
 ultimately...ok.Life is good.

 OffWorld
   
 OTOH, we could be going into a dark world with no governments just 
 corporations running everything.  No rights just slaves to the 
 corporations.   Ala Blade Runner.

 

 Bah, Merchants of Venus or Gladiator at Law were two much better examples
 of that sort of thing.


 Lawson
Maybe so, but I picked Blade Runner because Ridley Scott in his 
commentary on the final cut version talks about it being a totally 
corporate state.  Also Alien vs Predator Requiem (as it's director 
points out) explores how the world in Alien became corporate run.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 15, 2008, at 11:18 AM, sparaig wrote:




Also, it's of little interest if the Buddhist and Hindu research on
samadhi is relevant to just me. What made the Gamma-coherence samadhi
research so interesting was not only that it was the first to
replicate the samadhi of Patanjali yogins, but it was also the first
recent example of a highly coherent EEG state outside of waking,
sleeping or dreaming. That's why it's of major interest and received
such worldwide acclaim.



Who says that the state is a non-waking, dreaming or sleeping state?

Cites?


That's why it's called (in Hindu parlance) The Fourth, Turiya or  
Turiyatita, beyond even the Fourth (the other three being waking,  
sleeping and dreaming states). Gaudapada would be a good start.


In the Tibetan tradition these yogis refer to the state as dmigs-med  
snying-rje, compassion with no reference point or rigpa  
cogbzhag, freely resting in vidya or pure knowledge, the  
veda (loose translation). It's really the type of thing that one has  
to become accustomed to before it could be understood, but it's not  
exactly like any of the other states but the other states can be  
accessed from it.


A standard EEG text might help you understand what the EEG is like  
for waking, dreaming and sleeping. I would suspect if an unsuspecting  
scientist were to witness an EEG of a yogi in samadhi without  
knowledge of the subject being examining, they would think it was a  
patient with some neuro-pathology, like a brain tumor.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Peter]

--- On Wed, 10/15/08, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this
 puzzling.
 You do realise this is highly important and paradigm
 shifting,
 if true? Of course you do.

The ME is a wonderful narrative, but as science it is junk. I think John knows 
this in his heart, but won't accept it. The ME is now official TM dogma. It is 
never questioned and no further research is forthcoming. Its validity is 
exhorted over and over to the faithful who know next to nothing about science. 
Any prima facia evidence to contradict it is explained away by adding new 
pieces the the theory. Again, as science it is pathetic, but as a spiritual 
narrative it is delightful.





 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 

  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 15, 2008, at 2:52 AM, sparaig wrote:

Shrug. There's suggestive evidence that extreme alpha coherence in  
the brain
might be due to quantum interaction effects. Vaj's favorite  
Buddhist meditation

research is touted by Quantum Mind fans like Hamerhoff as evidence of
the 40Mhz EEG coherence due to QM effects in the brain that  
Hamerhoff has

been making for many years.



Actually the theory was worked out by Roger Penrose and Stu Hameroff  
and is very preliminary theory. I don't think anyone takes it truly  
seriously, but it is interesting theoretical fun.


Also, it's of little interest if the Buddhist and Hindu research on  
samadhi is relevant to just me. What made the Gamma-coherence samadhi  
research so interesting was not only that it was the first to  
replicate the samadhi of Patanjali yogins, but it was also the first  
recent example of a highly coherent EEG state outside of waking,  
sleeping or dreaming. That's why it's of major interest and received  
such worldwide acclaim.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[yifuxero]

---Right, may or may not be true. I'd say it is...; but nevetheless, 
it's not Being that will capture the imagination and fascination of 
humanity.  It will be SIDHIS.  The minute even a small number of X-
Men/Women appear on the earth with actual demonstrations of (say, 
healing); the world will change in a flash and we will be ready to 
get into the real New Age. But just pure Consciousness?  Boring.


 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 15, 2008, at 2:52 AM, sparaig wrote:
 
  Shrug. There's suggestive evidence that extreme alpha coherence 
in  
  the brain
  might be due to quantum interaction effects. Vaj's favorite  
  Buddhist meditation
  research is touted by Quantum Mind fans like Hamerhoff as 
evidence of
  the 40Mhz EEG coherence due to QM effects in the brain that  
  Hamerhoff has
  been making for many years.
 
 
 Actually the theory was worked out by Roger Penrose and Stu 
Hameroff  
 and is very preliminary theory. I don't think anyone takes it 
truly  
 seriously, but it is interesting theoretical fun.
 
 Also, it's of little interest if the Buddhist and Hindu research 
on  
 samadhi is relevant to just me. What made the Gamma-coherence 
samadhi  
 research so interesting was not only that it was the first to  
 replicate the samadhi of Patanjali yogins, but it was also the 
first  
 recent example of a highly coherent EEG state outside of waking,  
 sleeping or dreaming. That's why it's of major interest and 
received  
 such worldwide acclaim.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[curtisdeltablues]

It was interesting but I don't have a metric to compare it.  Was he
hooked up to a machine that would tell if he really was dead dead?  

I know there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in
my philosophy, but I still would like to see the physical causes ruled
out before I give his state of mind credit for influencing his body
after death.  There is no causal connection, it is just an assumption
bases on a belief system that this is what happens to people in a
special state of mind after death.

I believe in special states of mind, I just don't seen any connection
yet between them and how fast a corpse rots.  Medical people are as
full of superstitions as the rest of us. Dr. Mitchell Levy  was
obviously taken by His Holiness's personal charm and was surrounded by
super believers.  I don't doubt that many things can be experienced in
such a setting, but I can't take them at face value.  When Levy claims
that as a doctor he has no explanation for his continued body warmth I
realize that he is not coming in with an unbiased mind.  For one the
body could have been heated up in warm water by his believer before he
was brought in or as I said before, he may not have been completely
dead yet.  All sorts of weird shit has happened where a person
declared dead gets up off of the autopsy table.

So maybe something really interesting happened at his death.  I really
can't tell with the info I have from his report.  He is not viewing it
as a skeptic and this is appropriate since the believers at his death
bed are advocates for the opinion that the guy was special and his non
rotting is proof.  Under those conditions I would not rule out monkey
business.  But the doctor obviously has.  In this case the
extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof.  But even then the
assumption about the cause, if it is established that he rotted
slower, that it is because of his special state of mind at death seems
like a bit of a jump.  As I said before there are physical reasons
this can happen and we should explore them with experts in this field,
not just a doctor's report.  I don't have any idea how many dead
bodies this doctor has experienced. 

Hopefully sometime in the future a guy like this will allow his body
to be tested by an objective group of scientists so we can see if
something unusual is going on.  Then they can begin to look for the
cause. 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 15, 2008, at 11:43 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
 
  If a person is showing a slower rate of decomposition after death I
  think one of the first places to look would be their body's bacterial
  makeup.  Perhaps certain diets promote or slow down decay due to
  alkaline acid balance and the type of bacteria that thrive in that
  internal environment. It is the internal bacteria that is the cause
  for a body's decay at first, right?
 
  The last thing I would consider was the state of mind of the person
  who died.  There are so many other physical causes to rule out first
  if in fact this report is more than just the subjective opinion of a
  person who would like to see something special happening in a special
  person's death ala Yogananda's followers who made similar claims.
 
  The incorruptibility of the body is an attempt to see some concrete
  evidence that a person has achieved more than a pleasant state of
  mind.  That they have achieved something magical.  I don't believe we
  are close to this conclusion based on a person reporting that a body
  rotted slower.  I would like to hear the opinion from that ghoulish
  group of forensic scientists who have a body decay farm.  They are the
  experts on how fast a body decays and have quantified it.  They would
  know if something unusual was going on in a person's decay rate under
  controlled conditions.
 
 Well listen to the last Karmapa's physicians comments and see what  
 you think. For rigor mortis not to set in for several days is quite  
 unusual:
 
 http://www.khandro.net/16Karmapa_80.htm
 
 (excerpt of above)
 
 Even in death, His Holiness did not cease to amaze the Western  
 medical establishment At forty-eight hours after his death, his chest  
 was warm right above his heart. This was how it happened.
 
 Situ Rinpoche [one of the younger tulkus] took me into the room  
 where His Holiness was lying. First I had to wash my hands completely  
 and put a mask on. And Situ Rinpoche walks in and puts his robe over  
 his mouth, as if even breathing might disturb the samadhi of His  
 Holiness. And he took my hand, and he put my hand in the center of  
 His Holiness' chest and then made me feel it, and it felt warm.
 
 And it's funny, because since I had washed my hands in cold water,  
 my Western medical mind said, 'Well, my hands must still be a little  
 cold.' So I warmed my hands up, and then I said to Situ Rinpoche,  
 'Could I feel his chest one more time?' He said, 'Sure,' and he  
 pulled down His 

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[John]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 ---Right, may or may not be true. I'd say it is...; but 
nevetheless, 
 it's not Being that will capture the imagination and fascination 
of 
 humanity.  It will be SIDHIS.  The minute even a small number of X-
 Men/Women appear on the earth with actual demonstrations of (say, 
 healing); the world will change in a flash and we will be ready to 
 get into the real New Age. But just pure Consciousness?  Boring.
 

You're underestimating the effects of stress in ordinary life.  
Everyone I know who does not practice any form of meditation is 
showing signs of stress, such as bad health, anxiety, materialism and 
many others.  The TMO has been emphasizing this fact as a matter of 
waking up the public to the alternative holistic method of meditation.

Even with that approach, there are still some people who are 
skeptical of meditation and the foreign tradition behind it.









  In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
 
  
  On Oct 15, 2008, at 2:52 AM, sparaig wrote:
  
   Shrug. There's suggestive evidence that extreme alpha coherence 
 in  
   the brain
   might be due to quantum interaction effects. Vaj's favorite  
   Buddhist meditation
   research is touted by Quantum Mind fans like Hamerhoff as 
 evidence of
   the 40Mhz EEG coherence due to QM effects in the brain that  
   Hamerhoff has
   been making for many years.
  
  
  Actually the theory was worked out by Roger Penrose and Stu 
 Hameroff  
  and is very preliminary theory. I don't think anyone takes it 
 truly  
  seriously, but it is interesting theoretical fun.
  
  Also, it's of little interest if the Buddhist and Hindu research 
 on  
  samadhi is relevant to just me. What made the Gamma-coherence 
 samadhi  
  research so interesting was not only that it was the first to  
  replicate the samadhi of Patanjali yogins, but it was also the 
 first  
  recent example of a highly coherent EEG state outside of waking,  
  sleeping or dreaming. That's why it's of major interest and 
 received  
  such worldwide acclaim.
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 15, 2008, at 2:45 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:


It was interesting but I don't have a metric to compare it.  Was he
hooked up to a machine that would tell if he really was dead dead?


It explains it a bit better if you read the entire article. He is in  
intensive care and hooked up to a host of machines. He actually dies  
several times, only to come back. The declare him dead and oops,  
he's back.




I know there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in
my philosophy, but I still would like to see the physical causes ruled
out before I give his state of mind credit for influencing his body
after death.  There is no causal connection, it is just an assumption
bases on a belief system that this is what happens to people in a
special state of mind after death.


I don't know that it's a state of mind or mentation (if that's what  
you mean); state of consciousness or state of pre-consciousness might  
be a better term. What it is that the Dalai Lama is so interested in  
examining is Clear Light Meditation. Unlike many of the whoopdy-doo  
claims of meditation researchers and EEG tracings, what one would  
have to say about Clear Light meditation is that it's sign is NO EEG  
tracing. In other words the person still exhibits some sense of being  
alive as a conscious being (perhaps) but not necessarily as a  
conventional living human: no heart beat, no pulse, no respiration  
and a flat EEG.


It's also helpful to have had some experience or at least training in  
the style of meditation they're talking about here, then it makes  
more sense as they're describing various transitional states.


I commend HHDL for actually wanting to study such a state as it's not  
unusual for religious zealots to go hyper-pious; don't touch the  
body kinda thing.




I believe in special states of mind, I just don't seen any connection
yet between them and how fast a corpse rots.  Medical people are as
full of superstitions as the rest of us. Dr. Mitchell Levy  was
obviously taken by His Holiness's personal charm and was surrounded by
super believers.  I don't doubt that many things can be experienced in
such a setting, but I can't take them at face value.  When Levy claims
that as a doctor he has no explanation for his continued body warmth I
realize that he is not coming in with an unbiased mind.  For one the
body could have been heated up in warm water by his believer before he
was brought in or as I said before, he may not have been completely
dead yet.  All sorts of weird shit has happened where a person
declared dead gets up off of the autopsy table.


Yet what he was observing has been observed time and time again for  
centuries, so much so that the signs are quite well known... and it  
just doesn't seem to happen to, well, Joe Six Pack.




So maybe something really interesting happened at his death.  I really
can't tell with the info I have from his report.  He is not viewing it
as a skeptic and this is appropriate since the believers at his death
bed are advocates for the opinion that the guy was special and his non
rotting is proof.  Under those conditions I would not rule out monkey
business.  But the doctor obviously has.  In this case the
extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof.  But even then the
assumption about the cause, if it is established that he rotted
slower, that it is because of his special state of mind at death seems
like a bit of a jump.  As I said before there are physical reasons
this can happen and we should explore them with experts in this field,
not just a doctor's report.  I don't have any idea how many dead
bodies this doctor has experienced.


He's an Intensive Care doc. Quite a few. Anyways, if you read the  
whole article, it may give a clearer idea.




Hopefully sometime in the future a guy like this will allow his body
to be tested by an objective group of scientists so we can see if
something unusual is going on.  Then they can begin to look for the
cause.


That's what I'm saying. HHDL has a team of scientists waiting for the  
next time this happens. So we may know sooner rather than later.


I did see a documentary on some rare Buddhist-Shinto practices of  
dying performed in Japan, but I'd have to re-watch it to see what the  
scientists came up with in that case. IIRC some of the substances  
they were imbibing actually allowed these yogis to self-mummify  
through a combination of severe fasting and poisons. Or so the  
scientists thought.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big news.
 But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
 
 I find any nonchalance about breakthroughs like this puzzling.
 You do realise this is highly important and paradigm shifting,
 if true? Of course you do.
 

**

It's not surprising about quantum interaction at a distance:

If two particles are entangled, they act in some respects as if they 
were a single object, said Wootters. Everything that happens to one 
of the entangled pairs instantly affects the other, no matter how far 
apart each of the entangled particles is from the other. 

Braunstein likens entanglement to a pair of ideal lovers who know 
each other so well that they could answer for their lover even if 
separated by long distances. 

http://tinyurl.com/561c

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Bhairitu]

sparaig wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Vaj wrote:
 
 On Oct 13, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Dick Mays wrote:

   
 The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in 
 national life
 
 Hate to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO!  (msg 193626)

 These guys are about as predictable as they come.
   
 Don't show this message to the Bush administration as Bush will have a 
 press conference and announce to the public that the TM movement was 
 responsible for the global economic crash and will send out the DHS to 
 arrest TM'ers everywhere starting with Hagelin and Bevan.  :-D

 Of course the reason for the economic collapse was the ponzi scheme that 
 banks came up with to sell loans, many times over so that one dollar was 
 loaned out 30 times.  That was criminal but they did it because they 
 could.  And according to Bill Seidman who was with a group that created 
 that concept, Greenspan thought it was great.
 

 That concept is centuries old...


 Lawson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKBuVU5b6eM

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo richardhughes103@ 
 wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ 
 wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo 
 richardhughes103@ 
   wrote:
  [...]
 But why would he stop doing the experiments, if there is 
 anything
 to it at all it's the most amazing breakthrough in scientific
 undertsnding ever! I'm serious. The only abstract I could find
 in the Journal of Neuroscience claims to have found evidence 
 of
 a field effect, if true it's massive.

Because the ceiling effect made the resutls unpredictable/not-
   replicable?
   
   They wouldn't be non-replicable and that's the only thing
   that would lift the research out of obscurity. If nothing
   else, James Randi would give them a million bucks.
  
  OK, let me puut it another way: the results haven't been replicated 
 lately,
  or so I surmise. The reason for that is...?
  
  And no, you have no idea WHAT they haven't been replicated: the most
  you can do is speculate.
 
 No, I can speculate and I can look around for evidence. So far, no
 evidence.
 
 
 
   It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big news.
   But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
   
  
  If it IS QM effects at body temperature at macro-distances within 
 the brain,
  what possible reason would have to assume that it wouldn't show
  action at larger distances? What theoretical difference is there 
  between 5 inches and 5,000 miles in this context?
 
 They don't survive the interference with other quantum states is the 
 problem. Any coherent waveform is localized and remains so because
 it's like running into a wall of noise once out in the world
 and away from whatever it is pulled them together in the first place.
 And no-one knows how they could survive, hence my suspicion of
 this work. I'm  getting all this from a book which is a collection
 of current theories on consciousness, very interesting but the 
 ME appears to have no place as yet.
 


My background in physics is too vague to respond to this directly. 
It goes against my understanding but again, my understanding is 
rather limited...


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , sparaig LEnglish5@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo richardhughes103@
 wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , sparaig LEnglish5@
 wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Hugo
 richardhughes103@
   wrote:
  [...]
 But why would he stop doing the experiments, if there is
 anything
 to it at all it's the most amazing breakthrough in scientific
 undertsnding ever! I'm serious. The only abstract I could find
 in the Journal of Neuroscience claims to have found evidence
 of
 a field effect, if true it's massive.
   
Because the ceiling effect made the resutls unpredictable/not-
   replicable?
  
   They wouldn't be non-replicable and that's the only thing
   that would lift the research out of obscurity. If nothing
   else, James Randi would give them a million bucks.
 
  OK, let me puut it another way: the results haven't been replicated
 lately,
  or so I surmise. The reason for that is...?
 
  And no, you have no idea WHAT they haven't been replicated: the most
  you can do is speculate.

 No, I can speculate and I can look around for evidence. So far, no
 evidence.



   It MAY be due to quantum interaction, that in itself is big news.
   But affecting people at a distance? Very big news indeed.
  
 
  If it IS QM effects at body temperature at macro-distances within
 the brain,
  what possible reason would have to assume that it wouldn't show
  action at larger distances? What theoretical difference is there
  between 5 inches and 5,000 miles in this context?

 They don't survive the interference with other quantum states is the
 problem. Any coherent waveform is localized and remains so because
 it's like running into a wall of noise once out in the world
 and away from whatever it is pulled them together in the first
place.

Which random quantum states are you talking about that are exhibiting
wave coherence in te general environment? You are trying to say that one
tiny wave on its own, can stop a host of coherent waves acting in tandem
and exponentially magnifying their power wit eac new addition of a
fluctuation that joins their flow. One, or two, or even a million
random, scattered wave functions cannot stand againt a coherent
super-conductor-like formation.

This is your fallacy. You are reading about microtubules in the brain
that interact weakly with the quantum field, but people like Penrose
don't understand yet that there can exist an array of neuronal activity
that functions as one 'army', coherent and powerful. Travis already
proved this twice in the International Journal of Neuroscience.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ 
 wrote:
 
  
  
  --- On Mon, 10/13/08, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
  From: Vaj vajradhatu@
  Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 7:01 PM
 

  Creation science is dogma that uses pseudo-scientific sounding 
 clap-trap to validate itself. Absurd.
 
 I am not disagreeing with you, except in the value we each place 
 in creating a pseudoscience which could be used as a front for 
 selling his various services and appealing to western geeks, the 
 buyers. the Maharishi always made his use of science clear; as a 
 means to an end. Everything, including you and me, was to him a 
 means to an end. you may call it exploitation or liberation, 
 depending on your point of view.

What is the value you place on truth? Surely this should be the 
deciding factor. That Marshy would say anything to make money is 
obvious but Hagelin still claims to be a scientist, and even one
who claims to have finished Einsteins work. This is bullshit
of the very highest order. He should publish his evidence or
shut his mouth.

The fact is he is a true believer in a religious group who
have made a good living claiming that large groups of their
experts will create heaven on earth, which sounds like a good
thing right? Unfortunately, once you have these groups you
have to interpret everything that happens globally in a positive 
fashion or admit it doesn't work. To do that would be the end
of the TMO so they keep on at it, hence this dreadful letter.

I mean, he calls this a phase transition, obviously implying
that the credit crunch is the result of increased coherence
also implying that it will pass and we will enter a new age
of prosperity. Is that going to happen? Is nationalising
banks at massive expense to the taxpayer going to improve
the lot of the average citizen? No, we'll be paying for it
with higher taxes, reduced services and higher unemployment 
for the rest of our lives.

The IA course has been going for years, surely nature 
would have come up with something a bit more pleasant for us.
Time to face it, it don't work. The theory of a pundit inspired
Heaven on Earth has NOT been demonstrated.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Eustace]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: Invincible America [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 http://invincibleamerica.org/
 
 An Open Letter to the Yogic Flyers of the Nation
 from the Raja of Invincible America
 
 October 12, 2008
 
 Dear Fellow Yogic Flyers,
 
 As everyone surely knows, America-and our entire, 
 deeply interconnected world family-are in the 
 midst of an historic global phase transition. The 
 financial markets-and the entire world 
 economy-are in upheaval.
 
 The press often asks me about the cause of the 
 stock market meltdown, despite our consistently 
 high numbers in the Domes-given that we had taken 
 credit for the record market highs just one year 
 ago.

Here is the problem. We took credit for the record market highs
just one year ago when the our numbers were *not* yet there, and hence
we could not and should not have taken credit of them. Besides, the
record market highs were not necessarily a good thing, considering the
already rising number of foreclosures and the rise in fuel and food
prices that accompanied it. 

 The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in 
 national life

That's a reasonable hypothesis. The attainment of the numbers may have
fueled a long-overdue purification in national life. There should,
however, be a scientific study to show the correlation between the
rise in the numbers and this long-overdue purification.
 
 The answer is simple-and consistent with the 
 Maharishi Effect research. On the one hand, the 
 number of Yogic Flyers has been high enough to 
 create a powerful upsurge of coherence in 
 national consciousness, fueling national 
 creativity, stabilizing the national mood, and 
 bolstering the national economy. But the rise in 
 coherence has also fueled a long-overdue 
 purification in national life-in particular, in 
 the very questionable principles and practices 
 that drive our economic policies.

Yes. It does seem that the rise in coherence curbed the unbridled
feverish speculation and unconscious gambling taking place in Wall
Street. It remains, however, to be proven.

 Maharishi repeatedly made it clear that the old 
 principles that guided life during the past age 
 of ignorance will be discarded and the 
 small-thinking leaders who espouse them will be 
 hooted out of office with the rise of 
 collective consciousness. Maharishi said new 
 enlightened principles of administration, along 
 with new, enlightened leadership, would come 
 forward to guide life.

It is tempting to speculate that the expected election of Obama is
related to the rise in coherence, I am not sure, however, that this
can be shown statistically. 

 We are now watching Maharishi's words come true.
 
 Our success is ultimately dependent on you
 
 I am writing you from Wall Street, where I am 
 living and working with members of my national 
 team at the 
 http://gfcny.net/press_release/2008_10_13.htmlGlobal 
 Financial Capital of New York, one block from the 
 New York Stock Exchange.

It is also tempting to relate the official opening of the Global
Financial Capital of New York in the beginning of July to the
financial meltdown that followed soon after, but again, I see no way
that such a correlation can be shown convincingly... 

 We are starting to make 
 remarkably good progress in our efforts to bring 
 Maharishi's knowledge of enlightenment and 
 invincibility to leaders here whose thinking and 
 actions vitally impact the whole world. However, 
 ultimately, our success is dependent on you. We 
 will be successful when the leaders are receptive 
 to our message. But their openness is 100% 
 dependent upon the numbers in the Domes. Why? 
 Because a rise in national consciousness directly 
 translates into a rise in openness among leaders 
 of business, health, education, defense, 
 government, etc.
 
 At this critical time I urge everyone to fly together in large
 groups
 
 Maharishi said we need 2500 experts flying 
 together to guarantee invincibility for America.

In what context and what exactly did Maharishi say? It would be nice,
of course, to have 2500, according to the square root of 1% formula,
however, influencing Canada and Mexico in addition to the United
States wouldn't do much to influence the rest of the word. For that
some 8,000 flyers are needed.
  
 This requirement is because the turbulence in the 
 collective consciousness of one country can 
 easily spread like a wildfire to create a similar 
 turbulence in another country.

What is the name of that magnet coherence phenomenon? I forget right now.

 And this is why, 
 at this critical time, with the economic 
 stability of the world hanging in the balance, I 
 urge everyone in Iowa and everyone in the country 
 to recommit to fly together in large groups.

Reaching 2,500 would not influence statistically significantly Europe
and Asia. 
 
 Needless to say, I am deeply appreciative of how 
 much you are already doing with the knowledge 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Eustace]

Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: Invincible America [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 http://invincibleamerica.org/

 An Open Letter to the Yogic Flyers of the Nation
 from the Raja of Invincible America

 October 12, 2008

 Dear Fellow Yogic Flyers,

 As everyone surely knows, America-and our entire,
 deeply interconnected world family-are in the
 midst of an historic global phase transition. The
 financial markets-and the entire world
 economy-are in upheaval.

 The press often asks me about the cause of the
 stock market meltdown, despite our consistently
 high numbers in the Domes-given that we had taken
 credit for the record market highs just one year
 ago.

Here is the problem. We took credit for the record market highs
just one year ago when the our numbers were *not* yet there, and hence
we could not and should not have taken credit of them. Besides, the
record market highs were not necessarily a good thing, considering the
already rising number of foreclosures and the rise in fuel and food
prices that accompanied it.

 The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in
 national life

That's a reasonable hypothesis. The attainment of the numbers may have
fueled a long-overdue purification in national life. There should,
however, be a scientific study to show the correlation between the
rise in the numbers and this long-overdue purification.

 The answer is simple-and consistent with the
 Maharishi Effect research. On the one hand, the
 number of Yogic Flyers has been high enough to
 create a powerful upsurge of coherence in
 national consciousness, fueling national
 creativity, stabilizing the national mood, and
 bolstering the national economy. But the rise in
 coherence has also fueled a long-overdue
 purification in national life-in particular, in
 the very questionable principles and practices
 that drive our economic policies.

Yes. It does seem that the rise in coherence curbed the unbridled
feverish speculation and unconscious gambling taking place in Wall
Street. It remains, however, to be proven.

 Maharishi repeatedly made it clear that the old
 principles that guided life during the past age
 of ignorance will be discarded and the
 small-thinking leaders who espouse them will be
 hooted out of office with the rise of
 collective consciousness. Maharishi said new
 enlightened principles of administration, along
 with new, enlightened leadership, would come
 forward to guide life.

It is tempting to speculate that the expected election of Obama is
related to the rise in coherence, I am not sure, however, that this
can be shown statistically.

 We are now watching Maharishi's words come true.

 Our success is ultimately dependent on you

 I am writing you from Wall Street, where I am
 living and working with members of my national
 team at the
 http://gfcny.net/press_release/2008_10_13.htmlGlobal
 Financial Capital of New York, one block from the
 New York Stock Exchange.

It is also tempting to relate the official opening of the Global
Financial Capital of New York in the beginning of July to the
financial meltdown that followed soon after, but again, I see no way
that such a correlation can be shown convincingly...

 We are starting to make
 remarkably good progress in our efforts to bring
 Maharishi's knowledge of enlightenment and
 invincibility to leaders here whose thinking and
 actions vitally impact the whole world. However,
 ultimately, our success is dependent on you. We
 will be successful when the leaders are receptive
 to our message. But their openness is 100%
 dependent upon the numbers in the Domes. Why?
 Because a rise in national consciousness directly
 translates into a rise in openness among leaders
 of business, health, education, defense,
 government, etc.

 At this critical time I urge everyone to fly together in large
 groups

 Maharishi said we need 2500 experts flying
 together to guarantee invincibility for America.

In what context and what exactly did Maharishi say? It would be nice,
of course, to have 2500, according to the square root of 1% formula,
however, influencing Canada and Mexico in addition to the United
States wouldn't do much to influence the rest of the word. For that
some 8,000 flyers are needed.

 This requirement is because the turbulence in the
 collective consciousness of one country can
 easily spread like a wildfire to create a similar
 turbulence in another country.

What is the name of that magnet coherence phenomenon? I forget right now.

 And this is why,
 at this critical time, with the economic
 stability of the world hanging in the balance, I
 urge everyone in Iowa and everyone in the country
 to recommit to fly together in large groups.

Reaching 2,500 would not influence statistically significantly Europe
and Asia.

 Needless to say, I am deeply appreciative of how
 much you are already doing with the knowledge
 Maharishi has given us to create a 

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 off_world_beings wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:

  On Oct 13, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Dick Mays wrote:
 
  
  The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in
  national life

  Hate to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO!  (msg 193626)
 
  These guys are about as predictable as they come.
 
  
 
  On the other hand, do you think the world would be better carrying on as
  it was, as a greedy, corporate controlled, oppressor of the third world,
  polluter of the atmosphere, killer of life in the ocean.
 
  Something dramatic had to happen. The ME will protect from the worst of
  the upheaval.
 
  I never believed there could ba smooth transition. What is great about
  this is that people are realising that even without the capitalist
  system going rampant as they were used to...everything is
  ultimately...ok.Life is good.
 
  OffWorld
 OTOH, we could be going into a dark world with no governments just 
 corporations running everything.  No rights just slaves to the 
 corporations.   Ala Blade Runner.


Bah, Merchants of Venus or Gladiator at Law were two much better examples
of that sort of thing.


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma? When there is 
 no way 
to disprove the theory which is the higher-order explanation for the empirical 
evidence. 
Let's see, our self-chosen criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well, we're 
responsible for 
that. These self-same criteria go down, well, we're responsible for that too, 
but now we 
have a brand new ad hoc explanation as to why they go down: phase transition. 
Notice the 
a priori assumption that the ME is an absolute given and the ad hoc explanation 
is to 
rationalize the contradictory evidence away.
 
 I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific theory which 
 means it is open 
to nullification. So, John, what empirical findings would nullify the ME?



They get their numbers and nothing at all happens...


;-)


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 
 --- On Mon, 10/13/08, enlightened_dawn11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  From: enlightened_dawn11 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
  Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 6:47 PM
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
  vajradhatu@ wrote:
  
   
   On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Peter wrote:
   
You know when a science is no longer a science
  and just dogma? 
  When  
there is no way to disprove the theory which is
  the higher-
  order  
explanation for the empirical evidence. Let's
  see, our self-
  chosen  
criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well,
  we're responsible 
  for  
that. These self-same criteria go down, well,
  we're responsible 
  for  
that too, but now we have a brand new ad hoc
  explanation as to 
  why  
they go down: phase transition. Notice the a
  priori assumption 
  that  
the ME is an absolute given and the ad hoc
  explanation is to  
rationalize the contradictory evidence away.
   
I'd love to ask John, You state that
  the ME is a scientific 
  theory  
which means it is open to nullification. So,
  John, what 
  empirical  
findings would nullify the ME?
   
   
   Very well said.
  
  it is quite interesting that the Maharishi used to say
  through the -
  window- of science, we see the dawn of the age of
  enlightenment. He 
  didn't say, ...through science, we see
 
 The point here is that the TMO keeps on claiming a scientifically provable 
 effect called 
the ME. All real science claims can be nullified if evidence does not support 
the 
hypothesis. The problem with the ME is that absolutely nothing can occur that 
would 
nullify it!This is not science. Stop calling it science. Its dogma, which is 
fine, but stop 
pretending its science.

Few theories are pure science. TM theory may be more extreme than most
scientific theories, but virtually no theory is fully falsifiable unless it 
also is
boring, scientifically.

Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 13, 2008, at 7:39 PM, Peter wrote:
 sinister clip
 
  it is quite interesting that the Maharishi used to say
  through the -
  window- of science, we see the dawn of the age of
  enlightenment. He
  didn't say, ...through science, we see
 
  The point here is that the TMO keeps on claiming a scientifically  
  provable effect called the ME. All real science claims can be  
  nullified if evidence does not support the hypothesis. The problem  
  with the ME is that absolutely nothing can occur that would nullify  
  it!This is not science. Stop calling it science. Its dogma, which is  
  fine, but stop pretending its science.
 
 This is so important in science. There must not be merely a 'null  
 hypothesis' but instead a rigorously sought out null hypothesis. The  
 benefit to a true scientist is paramount: if you really, really try to  
 falsify (prove wrong) your idea and it survives that rigorous  
 onslaught, it may actually contain important relative truth, samvritti.
 
 If this is absent, all sorts of aberrations and manipulations are  
 possible.
 
 Mahesh used to decry such proofs as non-Vedic
 
 Indeed.


Oh, look, these long-term meditators have the highest gamma amplitude 
we have ever seen, and corelates with length of time meditating.

Oh look, these even longer long-term meditators show less gamma amplitude
then their less experienced brethren, just as predicted...

Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote:
 
  You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma? 
When there is no way 
 to disprove the theory which is the higher-order explanation for 
the empirical evidence. 
 Let's see, our self-chosen criteria for quantifying the ME go up. 
Well, we're responsible for 
 that. These self-same criteria go down, well, we're responsible for 
that too, but now we 
 have a brand new ad hoc explanation as to why they go down: phase 
transition. Notice the 
 a priori assumption that the ME is an absolute given and the ad hoc 
explanation is to 
 rationalize the contradictory evidence away.
  
  I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific 
theory which means it is open 
 to nullification. So, John, what empirical findings would nullify 
the ME?
 
 
 



 They get their numbers and nothing at all happens...
 
 
 ;-)
 
 
 Lawson



*

Uh, something did happen -- it just wasn't what Hagelin et al were 
expecting to happen. 

Maharishi warned long ago that rising enlightenment values would 
easily create fear and havoc on this ignorant planet if the pace of 
enlighten-izing were not gradual, and that's what's happening. 
Although there is some understanding of the fear and havoc thing in 
TM mgmt -- see Bevan's comments 
http://pages.citebite.com/l8d8o7m5nhrb , the TMO obviously can't 
mention this, for risk of sounding like a doomsday cult, but the 
transition to the Sat Yuga always involves shaking out the entropy 
(which means the earth sheds those producing that entropy). 

As long as the numbers were low, the contrast between the influence 
of bliss and the dense ignorance/unhappiness didn't matter, but when 
the numbers went up (most especially the presence of so many 
Rudrabhiskek pundits) , that light shook up the benighted.

http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2008.html#fit

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Peter drpetersutphen@
 wrote:
 
  You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma? When
 there is no way to disprove the theory which is the higher-order
 explanation for the empirical evidence. Let's see, our self-chosen
 criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well, we're responsible for that.
 These self-same criteria go down, well, we're responsible for that too,
 but now we have a brand new ad hoc explanation as to why they go down:
 phase transition. Notice the a priori assumption that the ME is an
 absolute given and the ad hoc explanation is to rationalize the
 contradictory evidence away.
 
  I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific theory
 which means it is open to nullification. So, John, what empirical
 findings would nullify the ME?
 
 
 
 Very simple. Have 1,000 sidhas sit on one room and do flying at a
 certain time. Have a bunch of non-meditators sit in another room and
 unaware of the first. Measure  the second groups' brainwave changes and
 other responses. If nothing happens you'll know. Done deal.
 
 Travis had something similar to this published in the Interntaional
 Journal of Neuroscience twice !...and you are an anti-science freak
 because you want to throw this and other science out the window.
 
 OffWorld


Problem is, there's a ceiling effect on alpha coherence during TM, at least
as measured in the general EEG experiments. Travis stopped doing those
experiments years ago, I believe, or you would have seen larger, more carefully
conducted ones published.

Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Hugo]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: Invincible America [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 http://invincibleamerica.org/
 
 An Open Letter to the Yogic Flyers of the Nation
 from the Raja of Invincible America
 
 October 12, 2008
 
 Dear Fellow Yogic Flyers,
 
 As everyone surely knows, America-and our entire, 
 deeply interconnected world family-are in the 
 midst of an historic global phase transition. The 
 financial markets-and the entire world 
 economy-are in upheaval.
 
 The press often asks me about the cause of the 
 stock market meltdown, despite our consistently 
 high numbers in the Domes-given that we had taken 
 credit for the record market highs just one year 
 ago.
 
 The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in 
national life

So they are actually claiming responsibility for this mess!

I kind of feel weird after reading this. I can see how
a TB might be reassured that peace is within our grasp, 
just one more course and the world emerge through the storm
into bright sunlight, the phase transition complete...

But to me it seems like a letter from someone I used to know
who is now confined to a mental hospital. I was hoping they
were better but this news causes me to shake my head with 
sorrow and accept they might be in the rubber room for many 
years to come. I can only hope there is some sort of new 
treatment just over the horizon that will bring them back to
sanity.

 
 The answer is simple-and consistent with the 
 Maharishi Effect research. On the one hand, the 
 number of Yogic Flyers has been high enough to 
 create a powerful upsurge of coherence in 
 national consciousness, fueling national 
 creativity, stabilizing the national mood, and 
 bolstering the national economy. But the rise in 
 coherence has also fueled a long-overdue 
 purification in national life-in particular, in 
 the very questionable principles and practices 
 that drive our economic policies.
 
 Maharishi repeatedly made it clear that the old 
 principles that guided life during the past age 
 of ignorance will be discarded and the 
 small-thinking leaders who espouse them will be 
 hooted out of office with the rise of 
 collective consciousness. Maharishi said new 
 enlightened principles of administration, along 
 with new, enlightened leadership, would come 
 forward to guide life.
 
 We are now watching Maharishi's words come true.
 
 Our success is ultimately dependent on you
 
 I am writing you from Wall Street, where I am 
 living and working with members of my national 
 team at the 
 http://gfcny.net/press_release/2008_10_13.htmlGlobal 
 Financial Capital of New York, one block from the 
 New York Stock Exchange. We are starting to make 
 remarkably good progress in our efforts to bring 
 Maharishi's knowledge of enlightenment and 
 invincibility to leaders here whose thinking and 
 actions vitally impact the whole world. 

 However, 
 ultimately, our success is dependent on you. We 
 will be successful when the leaders are receptive 
 to our message. But their openness is 100% 
 dependent upon the numbers in the Domes. Why? 
 Because a rise in national consciousness directly 
 translates into a rise in openness among leaders 
 of business, health, education, defense, 
 government, etc.
 
 At this critical time I urge everyone to fly together in large 
groups
 
 Maharishi said we need 2500 experts flying 
 together to guarantee invincibility for America. 
 This requirement is because the turbulence in the 
 collective consciousness of one country can 
 easily spread like a wildfire to create a similar 
 turbulence in another country. And this is why, 
 at this critical time, with the economic 
 stability of the world hanging in the balance, I 
 urge everyone in Iowa and everyone in the country 
 to recommit to fly together in large groups.
 
 Needless to say, I am deeply appreciative of how 
 much you are already doing with the knowledge 
 Maharishi has given us to create a new world of 
 peace, happiness, and prosperity for everyone.
 
 However, at this time, I ask you to do more. 
 Please join the Invincible America Assembly if 
 you have not already done so. And if you can't, 
 please be sure to fly every day, twice a day, in 
 a large group!
 
 Thank youŠ and with best wishes for your health, happiness and 
enlightenment,
 
 Jai Guru Dev
 
 John Hagelin, Ph.D.
 Raja of Invincible America
 
 P.S. Buried in the media tsunami of dire economic 
 news has been a series of stunningly positive 
 reports about the reduced tensions and violence 
 in nuclear hotspots-and the dramatic turnaround 
 in America's relationships with once hostile 
 nations. For example, North Korea, described a 
 short while ago by the U.S. as a member of the 
 Axis of Evil, is now forging friendlier ties 
 with America and has been removed from our 
 government's list of state-sponsored terrorists. 
 At the same time, violence and war deaths have 
 dropped sharply in Iraq and 

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Patrick Gillam]

I don't think there's much question that 
there's a phase transition in effect. The 
question seems to be, What effect do the 
TM organization's super radiance and pundit 
ceremonies have on that transition? 

I can hardly fault people for running under
the mountain with their sticks.

http://www.artoflegendindia.com/details/PAAD026


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: Invincible America [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 http://invincibleamerica.org/
 
 An Open Letter to the Yogic Flyers of the Nation
 from the Raja of Invincible America
 
 October 12, 2008
 
 Dear Fellow Yogic Flyers,
 
 As everyone surely knows, America-and our entire, 
 deeply interconnected world family-are in the 
 midst of an historic global phase transition. The 
 financial markets-and the entire world 
 economy-are in upheaval.
 
 The press often asks me about the cause of the 
 stock market meltdown, despite our consistently 
 high numbers in the Domes-given that we had taken 
 credit for the record market highs just one year 
 ago.
 
 The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in
national life

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 On Oct 13, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Dick Mays wrote:

  The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in
  national life


 Hate to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO!  (msg 193626)

 These guys are about as predictable as they come.


On the other hand, do you think the world would be better carrying on as
it was, as a greedy, corporate controlled, oppressor of the third world,
polluter of the atmosphere, killer of life in the ocean.

Something dramatic had to happen. The ME will protect from the worst of
the upheaval.

I never believed there could ba smooth transition. What is great about
this is that people are realising that even without the capitalist
system going rampant as they were used to...everything is
ultimately...ok.Life is good.

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Hugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays dickmays@ wrote:
 
  From: Invincible America maillist@
  
  http://invincibleamerica.org/
  
  An Open Letter to the Yogic Flyers of the Nation
  from the Raja of Invincible America
  
  October 12, 2008
  
  Dear Fellow Yogic Flyers,
  
  As everyone surely knows, America-and our entire, 
  deeply interconnected world family-are in the 
  midst of an historic global phase transition. The 
  financial markets-and the entire world 
  economy-are in upheaval.
  
  The press often asks me about the cause of the 
  stock market meltdown, despite our consistently 
  high numbers in the Domes-given that we had taken 
  credit for the record market highs just one year 
  ago.
  
  The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in 
 national life
 
 So they are actually claiming responsibility for this mess!
 
 I kind of feel weird after reading this. I can see how
 a TB might be reassured that peace is within our grasp, 
 just one more course and the world emerge through the storm
 into bright sunlight, the phase transition complete...
 
 But to me it seems like a letter from someone I used to know
 who is now confined to a mental hospital. I was hoping they
 were better but this news causes me to shake my head with 
 sorrow and accept they might be in the rubber room for many 
 years to come. I can only hope there is some sort of new 
 treatment just over the horizon that will bring them back to
 sanity.


The glass is always half empty or half full, depending on your perspective.


Of course, given the connotations of Emptiness in the TM context,
you to wonder, which is the positive perspective...


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Vaj wrote:
 
  On Oct 13, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Dick Mays wrote:
 
  The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in 
  national life
 
 
  Hate to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO!  (msg 193626)
 
  These guys are about as predictable as they come.
 Don't show this message to the Bush administration as Bush will have a 
 press conference and announce to the public that the TM movement was 
 responsible for the global economic crash and will send out the DHS to 
 arrest TM'ers everywhere starting with Hagelin and Bevan.  :-D
 
 Of course the reason for the economic collapse was the ponzi scheme that 
 banks came up with to sell loans, many times over so that one dollar was 
 loaned out 30 times.  That was criminal but they did it because they 
 could.  And according to Bill Seidman who was with a group that created 
 that concept, Greenspan thought it was great.

That concept is centuries old...


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 
 
 �
 I was all set to grab my checkbook and load up the car and drive the 1275 
 miles to the 
dome, but then I couldn't figure whether my added coherence would make the 
stock market 
go up or go down.�


It doesn't matter. Just go back to meditating...


Lawson

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
 The glass is always half empty or half full, depending on your perspective.
 
 
 Of course, given the connotations of Emptiness in the TM context,
 you to wonder, which is the positive perspective...

Dare I bring up the connotations of Fullness in this discussion?


Perhaps the upshot is that the glass being perceived as half-Empty or 
half-Full comes to the same thing: every... thing... is Relative

;-)

Lawson

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 13, 2008, at 5:33 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
The glass is always half empty or half full, depending on your  
perspective.



Of course, given the connotations of Emptiness in the TM context,
you to wonder, which is the positive perspective...


Dare I bring up the connotations of Fullness in this discussion?



Sure, if you mean fullness of sh*t.

The TM org is doing the exact same thing that fundamentalist  
Christians do with their Book of Revelation and world-history-as-the- 
latest-Apocalypse scenario, only they use their Neo-vedic  
pseudoscience schtick instead, with a discredited physicist and  
teenage skirt-chaser instead of a mega-preacher. Phase transition is  
just an old buzzword (shamelessly borrowed from chemistry and physics)  
TMers are all familiar with and it helps relieve the obvious cognitive  
dissonance they are feeling. To further assuage their fears, Hagelin  
uses the same excuses Ole Mahesh used to try.


It's the same old story really. I could feel the fullness. :-)

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Sal Sunshine]

On Oct 13, 2008, at 4:33 PM, sparaig wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
The glass is always half empty or half full, depending on your  
perspective.


Actually, it kinda depends on what's in the glass...

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[enlightened_dawn11]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 13, 2008, at 5:33 PM, sparaig wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig LEnglish5@ 
wrote:
  [...]
  The glass is always half empty or half full, depending on your  
  perspective.
 
 
  Of course, given the connotations of Emptiness in the TM 
context,
  you to wonder, which is the positive perspective...
 
  Dare I bring up the connotations of Fullness in this 
discussion?
 
 
 Sure, if you mean fullness of sh*t.
 
 The TM org is doing the exact same thing that fundamentalist  
 Christians do with their Book of Revelation and world-history-as-
the- 
 latest-Apocalypse scenario, only they use their Neo-vedic  
 pseudoscience schtick instead, with a discredited physicist and  
 teenage skirt-chaser instead of a mega-preacher. Phase 
transition is  
 just an old buzzword (shamelessly borrowed from chemistry and 
physics)  
 TMers are all familiar with and it helps relieve the obvious 
cognitive  
 dissonance they are feeling. To further assuage their fears, 
Hagelin  
 uses the same excuses Ole Mahesh used to try.
 
 It's the same old story really. I could feel the fullness. :-)

your taken name, Vajradhatu, comes from the Tibetan Buddhist 
tradition. As I recall, when Tibet was forcibly colonized by the 
communist Chinese, the religious Tibetan heirarchy did the same 
thing that Mr. Hagelin is doing, justifying the events of the 
colonization in terms of their religious prophecy and beliefs. What 
is the difference sir? Is the pot calling the kettle black?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:07 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote:


your taken name, Vajradhatu, comes from the Tibetan Buddhist
tradition. As I recall, when Tibet was forcibly colonized by the
communist Chinese, the religious Tibetan heirarchy did the same
thing that Mr. Hagelin is doing, justifying the events of the
colonization in terms of their religious prophecy and beliefs. What
is the difference sir? Is the pot calling the kettle black?



Not the same at all. They'd actually known about it decades before and  
proposed tax measures to help against the eventual invasion!  
Delegations were sent to the Tibet-Chinese border, explaining that if  
they accepted a raise in taxes, an eventual invasion could be avoided.


The people turned down the tax raise, and as prophecized the invasion  
occurred 80 some odd years later; many of the highest Lamas escaped;  
some remained; the world has benefitted immeasurably. Don't get me  
wrong, it was a horrible tragedy, but it's benefit has been remarkable.


And I wouldn't compare advanced yogis with TMers or high lamas with  
pseudoscience--I've met both and it's not a fair comparison. Before  
the advent of Buddhism in Tibet it was an incredibly barbaric place  
and was transformed to one of the greatest centers of higher  
consciousness in human history. So it's a really poor comparison.


Are you implying that Dr. Hagelin is prophesizing? It seems to me,  
he's selling.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Bhairitu]

off_world_beings wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 On Oct 13, 2008, at 1:28 PM, Dick Mays wrote:

 
 The rise of coherence has fueled a long-overdue purification in
 national life
   
 Hate to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO!  (msg 193626)

 These guys are about as predictable as they come.

 

 On the other hand, do you think the world would be better carrying on as
 it was, as a greedy, corporate controlled, oppressor of the third world,
 polluter of the atmosphere, killer of life in the ocean.

 Something dramatic had to happen. The ME will protect from the worst of
 the upheaval.

 I never believed there could ba smooth transition. What is great about
 this is that people are realising that even without the capitalist
 system going rampant as they were used to...everything is
 ultimately...ok.Life is good.

 OffWorld
OTOH, we could be going into a dark world with no governments just 
corporations running everything.  No rights just slaves to the 
corporations.   Ala Blade Runner.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Peter]

You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma? When there is no 
way to disprove the theory which is the higher-order explanation for the 
empirical evidence. Let's see, our self-chosen criteria for quantifying the ME 
go up. Well, we're responsible for that. These self-same criteria go down, 
well, we're responsible for that too, but now we have a brand new ad hoc 
explanation as to why they go down: phase transition. Notice the a priori 
assumption that the ME is an absolute given and the ad hoc explanation is to 
rationalize the contradictory evidence away.

I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific theory which means 
it is open to nullification. So, John, what empirical findings would nullify 
the ME?  


  

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[enlightened_dawn11]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:07 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote:
 
  your taken name, Vajradhatu, comes from the Tibetan Buddhist
  tradition. As I recall, when Tibet was forcibly colonized by the
  communist Chinese, the religious Tibetan heirarchy did the same
  thing that Mr. Hagelin is doing, justifying the events of the
  colonization in terms of their religious prophecy and beliefs. 
What
  is the difference sir? Is the pot calling the kettle black?
 
 
 Not the same at all. They'd actually known about it decades before 
and  
 proposed tax measures to help against the eventual invasion!  
 Delegations were sent to the Tibet-Chinese border, explaining that 
if  
 they accepted a raise in taxes, an eventual invasion could be 
avoided.
 
 The people turned down the tax raise, and as prophecized the 
invasion  
 occurred 80 some odd years later; many of the highest Lamas 
escaped;  
 some remained; the world has benefitted immeasurably. Don't get 
me  
 wrong, it was a horrible tragedy, but it's benefit has been 
remarkable.
 
 And I wouldn't compare advanced yogis with TMers or high lamas 
with  
 pseudoscience--I've met both and it's not a fair comparison. 
Before  
 the advent of Buddhism in Tibet it was an incredibly barbaric 
place  
 and was transformed to one of the greatest centers of higher  
 consciousness in human history. So it's a really poor comparison.
 
 Are you implying that Dr. Hagelin is prophesizing? It seems to 
me,  
 he's selling.

I am implying that Mr. Hagelin is seeing the current events through 
the lens of his world view and having it make sense that way, much 
as the Lamas did- that's all.

[FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[enlightened_dawn11]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Peter wrote:
 
  You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma? 
When  
  there is no way to disprove the theory which is the higher-
order  
  explanation for the empirical evidence. Let's see, our self-
chosen  
  criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well, we're responsible 
for  
  that. These self-same criteria go down, well, we're responsible 
for  
  that too, but now we have a brand new ad hoc explanation as to 
why  
  they go down: phase transition. Notice the a priori assumption 
that  
  the ME is an absolute given and the ad hoc explanation is to  
  rationalize the contradictory evidence away.
 
  I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific 
theory  
  which means it is open to nullification. So, John, what 
empirical  
  findings would nullify the ME?
 
 
 Very well said.

it is quite interesting that the Maharishi used to say through the -
window- of science, we see the dawn of the age of enlightenment. He 
didn't say, ...through science, we see

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:47 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Peter wrote:


You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma?

When

there is no way to disprove the theory which is the higher-

order

explanation for the empirical evidence. Let's see, our self-

chosen

criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well, we're responsible

for

that. These self-same criteria go down, well, we're responsible

for

that too, but now we have a brand new ad hoc explanation as to

why

they go down: phase transition. Notice the a priori assumption

that

the ME is an absolute given and the ad hoc explanation is to
rationalize the contradictory evidence away.

I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific

theory

which means it is open to nullification. So, John, what

empirical

findings would nullify the ME?



Very well said.


it is quite interesting that the Maharishi used to say through the -
window- of science, we see the dawn of the age of enlightenment. He
didn't say, ...through science, we see



What was disturbing to me, in years of conversation with Mahesh's old  
secretaries, (esp. one who helped put together what was to become  
known as SCI), was how M. said he would use science to forward his  
mission. Use science. But he clearly was not interested in finding the  
truth about TM, TMSP, etc. He was instead interested in creating a  
pseudoscience which could be used as a front for selling his various  
services and appealing to western geeks, the buyers.


You're new here so you may not even be aware, much of this has been  
discussed previously here in some detail. Vedic Science is well  
known among Hindu scientists as a form pseudoscience and Hindu  
fundamentalism. In India, in considerable contradistinction to our  
western views, it is considered an extreme right-wing and  
fundamentalist trend (here it seems very left wing). We see remarkably  
similar parallels in the phenomenon known as Creation Science in  
fundamentalist Christianity.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Peter wrote:

 You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma? When  
 there is no way to disprove the theory which is the higher-order  
 explanation for the empirical evidence. Let's see, our self-chosen  
 criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well, we're responsible for  
 that. These self-same criteria go down, well, we're responsible for  
 that too, but now we have a brand new ad hoc explanation as to why  
 they go down: phase transition. Notice the a priori assumption that  
 the ME is an absolute given and the ad hoc explanation is to  
 rationalize the contradictory evidence away.

 I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific theory  
 which means it is open to nullification. So, John, what empirical  
 findings would nullify the ME?


Very well said.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:44 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote:

 I am implying that Mr. Hagelin is seeing the current events through
 the lens of his world view and having it make sense that way, much
 as the Lamas did- that's all.


Well the prophecy you're probably referring to is from Padmasambhava  
in the 8th cent. CE. It said When the iron bird flies and horses run  
on wheels the Tibetan people will be scattered like ants across the  
face of the world, and the dharma will come to the land of the red- 
faced man.

It's interpretation among lamas is sometimes controversial, but here  
they are in the land called North, Central and South America, in a day  
of cars (horses on wheels) and planes (the iron bird that flies)...

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Peter]

--- On Mon, 10/13/08, enlightened_dawn11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: enlightened_dawn11 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 6:47 PM
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  
  On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Peter wrote:
  
   You know when a science is no longer a science
 and just dogma? 
 When  
   there is no way to disprove the theory which is
 the higher-
 order  
   explanation for the empirical evidence. Let's
 see, our self-
 chosen  
   criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well,
 we're responsible 
 for  
   that. These self-same criteria go down, well,
 we're responsible 
 for  
   that too, but now we have a brand new ad hoc
 explanation as to 
 why  
   they go down: phase transition. Notice the a
 priori assumption 
 that  
   the ME is an absolute given and the ad hoc
 explanation is to  
   rationalize the contradictory evidence away.
  
   I'd love to ask John, You state that
 the ME is a scientific 
 theory  
   which means it is open to nullification. So,
 John, what 
 empirical  
   findings would nullify the ME?
  
  
  Very well said.
 
 it is quite interesting that the Maharishi used to say
 through the -
 window- of science, we see the dawn of the age of
 enlightenment. He 
 didn't say, ...through science, we see

The point here is that the TMO keeps on claiming a scientifically provable 
effect called the ME. All real science claims can be nullified if evidence does 
not support the hypothesis. The problem with the ME is that absolutely nothing 
can occur that would nullify it!This is not science. Stop calling it science. 
Its dogma, which is fine, but stop pretending its science.
 
 
 
 
 To subscribe, send a message to:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Or go to: 
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
 and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 

  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Peter]

--- On Mon, 10/13/08, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 7:01 PM








On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:47 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote:
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED], Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Peter wrote:

You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma? 
When  
there is no way to disprove the theory which is the higher-
order  
explanation for the empirical evidence. Let's see, our self-
chosen  
criteria for quantifying the ME go up. Well, we're responsible 
for  
that. These self-same criteria go down, well, we're responsible 
for  
that too, but now we have a brand new ad hoc explanation as to 
why  
they go down: phase transition. Notice the a priori assumption 
that  
the ME is an absolute given and the ad hoc explanation is to  
rationalize the contradictory evidence away.

I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific 
theory  
which means it is open to nullification. So, John, what 
empirical  
findings would nullify the ME?


Very well said.

it is quite interesting that the Maharishi used to say through the -
window- of science, we see the dawn of the age of enlightenment. He 
didn't say, ...through science, we see

What was disturbing to me, in years of conversation with Mahesh's 
old secretaries, (esp. one who helped put together what was to become known as 
SCI), was how M. said he would use science to forward his mission. 
Use science. But he clearly was not interested in finding the truth about TM, 
TMSP, etc. He was instead interested in creating a pseudoscience which could be 
used as a front for selling his various services and appealing to western 
geeks, the buyers.
You're new here so you may not even be aware, much of this has been discussed 
previously here in some detail. Vedic Science is well known among Hindu 
scientists as a form pseudoscience and Hindu fundamentalism. In India, in 
considerable contradistinction to our western views, it is considered an 
extreme right-wing and fundamentalist trend (here it seems very left wing). We 
see remarkably similar parallels in the phenomenon known as Creation Science 
in fundamentalist Christianity.


Creation science is dogma that uses pseudo-scientific sounding clap-trap to 
validate itself. Absurd.









  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Vaj]

On Oct 13, 2008, at 7:39 PM, Peter wrote:
sinister clip

 it is quite interesting that the Maharishi used to say
 through the -
 window- of science, we see the dawn of the age of
 enlightenment. He
 didn't say, ...through science, we see

 The point here is that the TMO keeps on claiming a scientifically  
 provable effect called the ME. All real science claims can be  
 nullified if evidence does not support the hypothesis. The problem  
 with the ME is that absolutely nothing can occur that would nullify  
 it!This is not science. Stop calling it science. Its dogma, which is  
 fine, but stop pretending its science.

This is so important in science. There must not be merely a 'null  
hypothesis' but instead a rigorously sought out null hypothesis. The  
benefit to a true scientist is paramount: if you really, really try to  
falsify (prove wrong) your idea and it survives that rigorous  
onslaught, it may actually contain important relative truth, samvritti.

If this is absent, all sorts of aberrations and manipulations are  
possible.

Mahesh used to decry such proofs as non-Vedic

Indeed.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN

[Jonathan Chadwick]

--- On Mon, 10/13/08, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

From: Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: URGENT MESSAGE FROM RAJA HAGELIN
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 13, 2008, 7:01 PM






Lrt's try and be charitable about all this:
Step # 1 Theory of ME: IAA enhances national coherence.
#2 Hypothesis: DJIA is a signpost indicator of #1.
#3 Prediction: Stocks won't grow straight to the sky, Hagelin warned. There 
will be burps and corrections and mini-panics. But the swings won't be so 
extreme.
#4 Verification:  Apparently there has been no mention of a purification 
period prior to 10/08.
Conclusion: Things not looking so good for Theory of ME
Des Moines Register/October 24, 2006 
By Marc Hansen 
If you follow the news, you might have noticed...
...[T]he stock market has moved into record territory, with the Dow Jones 
industrial average closing at 12,116.91, its best historical close. 
A coincidence? No, the Maharishi Effect. 
It's the 1,200 advanced Transcendental meditators who are camping out for six 
hours a day in Fairfield and elsewhere, creating coherence in national 
consciousness and changing the national mood. 
Granted, it sounds flaky. One physicist called similar research on falling 
crime rates in Washington, D.C., voodoo science. 
But since the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi himself predicted this would happen back in 
July, who are we to argue? 
It's important to challenge mainstream thinking. You don't want to be the guy 
who told Guglielmo Marconi there was no future in wireless communications. 
The man in charge of the Invincible America Course is John Hagelin, a quantum 
physicist who graduated summa cum laude from Dartmouth, earned a doctorate from 
Harvard and was a researcher at Stanford before moving to Fairfield and 
becoming the director of the Institute of Science, Technology and Public Policy 
at the Maharishi University of Management. 
He also ran for president three times as a third-party candidate and collected 
lots of votes in Jefferson County. 
He isn't running this time, mostly because he's busy making sure the United 
States is surrounded with a protective shield of collective consciousness. 
This isn't something a person does in a regular 40-hour work week, so it took a 
while to catch up with him. When I did, he was in the Netherlands on a European 
speaking tour. 
...Get a large group of hard-core meditators together for six hours at a time, 
things happen. The mind settles down, awareness expands ... and expands ... 
until it permeates the collective consciousness. The stress level goes down... 
The good feelings spill over into the economy. Consumer confidence picks up, 
which leads to more optimism, a better economy and higher stock prices. 
The stock market, Hagelin said, was a side effect, an expression of the 
collective mood. 
Stocks up, gas prices down. Consumer confidence rises, unemployment drops. 
Stocks won't grow straight to the sky, Hagelin warned. There will be burps and 
corrections and mini-panics. But the swings won't be so extreme. 
I asked Hagelin if he made a killing with this really inside information. 
No. 
If we were smart, he said with a laugh, we would have scraped together some 
money and invested it. My limited resources were invested already outside the 
market.
 ...
On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:26 PM, Peter wrote:



You know when a science is no longer a science and just dogma? When there is no 
way to disprove the theory which is the higher-order explanation for the 
empirical evidence. Let's see, our self-chosen criteria for quantifying the ME 
go up. Well, we're responsible for that. These self-same criteria go down, 
well, we're responsible for that too, but now we have a brand new ad hoc 
explanation as to why they go down: phase transition. Notice the a priori 
assumption that the ME is an absolute given and the ad hoc explanation is 
to rationalize the contradictory evidence away.





I'd love to ask John, You state that the ME is a scientific theory which means 
it is open to nullification. So, John, what empirical findings would nullify 
the ME?

What was disturbing to me, in years of conversation with Mahesh's 
old secretaries, (esp. one who helped put together what was to become known as 
SCI), was how M. said he would use science to forward his mission. 
Use science. But he clearly was not interested in finding the truth about TM, 
TMSP, etc. He was instead interested in creating a pseudoscience which could be 
used as a front for selling his various services and appealing to western 
geeks, the buyers.


You're new here so you may not even be aware, much of this has been discussed 
previously here in some detail. Vedic Science is well known among Hindu 
scientists as a form pseudoscience and Hindu fundamentalism. In India, in 
considerable contradistinction to our western views, it is considered an 
extreme right-wing and fundamentalist trend (here it seems very left wing). We 
see remarkably similar