Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
Chandra~ When we have outbreaks of severe URI's at the shelter, we do use humidifiers/vaporizers in our Felv rooms. And it does seem to help. With one of my boys, who was prone to URI's, I would put him in my half bath with the steam vaporizer on. It really worked wonders for him, and having him in a smaller, confined area seemed to work best. Of course, I would have to spend time with him.. But, he did lose the congestion. My vet also had me use "Little Noses", the pediatric nasal drops. What did the vet give you, was it saline drops? Usually, using the nasal drops helps bring relief relatively quick. Just have to administer them about every 4 hours. Is Buddha still on clavamox? My little Gus responded best to his URIs with either doxycycline or Zenequin. Just tossing things out here Also, he was prescribed an antihistamine to help w/ breathing. It sounds like the Alternative med. vet is understanding and compassionate. There should be more of them out there. I will be praying for Buddha's recovery. Please keep us updated. And I am sure other members will have some very good information to contribute as for addressing Buddha' s Felv status, in regards to supplements etc. (Interferon, etc) And as far as not going to the vets for the 8 years, I have to agree with your decision. I am quite leery of over-vaccinating exposing my companions to whatever viruses are lurking at the time. It sounds like you have been a very caring guardian for your boy, he is a lucky boy. I hope that you will have much more time together! Please, keep us updated. You'll find this is a very caring, compassionate supportive group. Also, very well informed on Felv ~ I can't stress that enough. Give Buddha a hug! Fondly, Patti
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infections
i have never heard of any reason NOT to use a hudifier for a FeLV cat, nor for one with cancer--i'd think, speaking as a nonprofessional!, that having unobstructed airways could only be a benefit in any condition! what WAS suggested to me by a persian expert was to get a nebulizer rather than a humidifier to be sure you were getting the correct effect. i've never used one of those, and if they're employed the same way with cats as they are with humans, i'd think that'd be more stressful to a highly compromised cat sounds like you have a great vet, now! GLOW for you and for buddha (i hated cats til i was 26, and one of my shelties became best friends with a beautiful, black, part-persian girl named buddha.. she became FirstCat, and i haven't had a dog since--so any kitty named buddha has a special place in my heart) MC -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
list your vet!
chandra and buddha's post reminded me to do my periodic nudge: if you have or know of a vet whose first advice when meeting a FeLV (or FIV!) kitty is NOT to euthanize, please list them at www.adopt.bemikitties.com so that others can avoid at least one avenue of heartbreak. MC -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Speaking of depressing - Tonya
tonya, for me the answer is to focus on my small part of the world, and remember that being a good example (well, at least about the critters!) is a big thing, tho decidedly slow some people can handle dealing with the huge issues, many can't. for me, if i try to handle a huge number of injustices at once, i end up overwhelmed, and paralyzed, and unable to act on any level. for me, saving the critters i can, and continuing to educate-educate-educate, is what enables me to go on. a fervent belief that these critters come to US, out of all the humans in the world, also keeps me going. some of us have the gift of being able to handle the constant heartbreak of having to say goodbye to cats with FeLV and other conditions. it's not something i think i chose, but clearly the cats know better. i pull back and remember that these cats who have come into my life leave this world when it's their time having known warmth, and love, and a roof over their heads, and competent medical care. for those for whom human companionship is something they want, they leave in the arms of someone who loves them, thanks them for sharing their lives, and who tries desperately to honor their needs over my own. how many humans these days can say as much? you did exactly what jaws needed you to do: you rescued him from that street, you surrounded him with love and caring from yourself and your wonderful vet--in those few hours, jaws KNEW that his life was of value to someone. THOSE are the memories that he took with him to the bridge. would you have been there with him had you known he was going to leave so soon? of course--but you did not know, and you did what you needed to do for yourself. as much as we are driven to care for these without anyone else to stand up for them, we MUST take care of ourselves, too, or we diminish our ability to continue to be there for the next one, two, twenty. this group gives us a place to all do whatever it is they we can do, while having a wide group of folks doing the same thing--and when we reach out and hold hands (and/or paws), we enlarge the circle, and support one another in ways that radiate out from that circle. we may not encompass the world and its evils, but we each make a difference--and, together, we amplify and magnify one another. -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Chinese cat/dog fur-shopping for our pets?- depression-bridge list addition
Tonya, thank you for doing what you did for Jaws. He may not have lived but he had a chance. And he died much more peacerfully than if he'd been hit again by another car. You are a hero. And knowing people like you and being reminded of what is really important helps overshadow all the bad we see people do to the animals we are privileged to share this earth with.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tonya, it so humbles me and honors us all that you did the right - though difficult - thing. But you did the right thing, and demonstrated to all those whizzing cars. It made people think - and maybe next time some one of them will behave differently Most important, you helped the poor injured kitty, the great thing. Thank you for doing the right thing, even though you suffer for it. The world can be a crappy place, but if we keep trying to do the right thing, it makes a lot of difference...Hugs,GloriaAt 07:11 PM 12/14/2005, you wrote:...And speaking of depressingYesterday about a quarter of a mile from my school I saw a cat writhing in pain and bleeding in the middle of the road with cars just driving around it! It had obviously just been hit or it would have already been hit again.I stopped traffic (because I'm sure if I had pulled over people would have just driven around me and run over the cat again) and got out of the car and ran to the cat. It was crying and I was afraid really to pick it up that I might be bitten. But I didn't have much of a choice, so I picked up the cat and carried it to the other side of the road and laid it in the grass. It went limp, and I thought it was dead.It was bleeding horribly from its mouth and head. I "knew" it wasn't going to make it until I could get it to a vet, but I felt his heart beating steadily and he was still breathing... So I picked him up and fought the traffic back across the street. I mean with the bleeding cat in my arms--trying to cross the street--- people didn't want to stop and let me cross! I had to basically force people to let me back into traffic when I got in the car to leave (they were all going around my car by now again).I put on my flashers, I blew my horn. People would not let me pass, and it took forever to go about 2 miles to the nearest vet. I got the cat to the nearest vet who was luckily open. He's someone I know, luckily. I told them to please get the doctor to euthanize the cat. I couldn't believe he was still alive! It was just terrible.Well, the doctor came in and started checking him and said he thought he could help him. He said he had bitten his tongue and that was what had caused all of the blood. He was in shock, had a concussion. But the doctor said his heart and lungs sounded ok and he would see what he could do.I left the cat there and went to work. I wanted to go home after all of that, and had a bad cold and didn't feel well anyway. But there were no subs so I was told to stay. I called back later and the doctor had put pins in the cat's top and bottom jaws which were both broken. He had a ruptured ear drum and concussion. He had inserted a feeding tube, but said he was hanging in there. He felt if he could get him stabilized with the feeding tube he could save him. (All without charging me! He's a nice guy. That's the ONE good thing from this story.) He said things were looking good so far and they were taking good care of him.Anyway, today I called and they said the cat (they had named him "Jaws". ha.) had died last night around 8:00. He was a gray tabby with a few brown markings and white feet. Very handsome. Now I feel guilty because I didn't stop after work and visit the cat again yesterday because I felt sick and just wanted to go home. A lot of my co-workers did say 'how awful' or they were sorry, or whatever, but they were just appalled that I decided I didn't want to go to the Christmas party after school.I am just so MAD about the whole thing. I don't know what kind of world we live in that people treat animals so horribly and people are so uncaring. I don't see how anyone who is the least bit aware of the suffering doesn't suffer from depression like I do.I feel like many people on this list understand me better than my friends and family. How DO you deal with the daily emails of animals being gassed in overcrowded shelters, people dumping their pets, people abusing animals. It is just so sad and depressing to me all the time. I can't just 'turn it off' and go 'be happy' and 'not think about it'.I feel like "It's Christmas time and I hate the world." Merry Christmas...Maybe this shouldn't be on the list, but I would really like to know if others have a hard time handling or balancing your animals and any semblance of a 'normal, happy' life?? I guess it sounds like a 'martyr complex'. I don't know. It just seems like so very few people care about anyone or anything other than themselves.tonyaBONNIE J KALMBACH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:PLEASE CROSS POSTForwarded Message:Subj: LETTER - China's Dog/Cat Fur
Re: Chrissy/Prissy on the bridge list
excellent point, nina, as usual! also, gloria, i would talk to the vet, too--it might be good to find out exactly what DID happen: it's possible the new mom didn't really give you the xomplete story. just as possible it's a bad vet.. On 12/14/05, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe Chrissy has saved more than one life with the sacrifice of her own. :( N [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been seriously thinking about getting microchips. Don't think anyone else in our rescue group is that interested, but maybe I'll bring the subject up again. Those are all good points - I may do that. The vet is maybe 15 miles away, and may not be aware of our cat rescue, so I do want to make him aware of that too, and our policies and our contract with our adopters (we always take our cats back if needed). Gloria At 05:50 PM 12/14/2005, you wrote: I don't know, I think I might talk to her about not being ready to take on the emotional hazards that come with the responsibility of holding another life in her hands. (I don't know if I'd put it that way!). She may just go get another kitty somewhere else. It sounds like she's in such pain that she can't bear to see anything/anyone suffer. Unfortunately that comes with life. She doesn't seem to have what it takes right now to suffer through the bad stuff to get to the good stuff. I'd certainly call, or write that vet to let him know there was someone out there that would have taken responsibility for Chrissy. Maybe he'll think about it next time someone wants to have an animal pts prematurely. Was Chrissy microchipped? You could suggest that he checks for a microchip before euthanizing anyone else. N [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Absolutely - everything that you said - you expressed it so well. So frustrating, and hard to evaluate the adopting woman's emotional state. And I end up with such a duality of feelings. She mentioned something about wanting to consider another kitty. I'm just going to ignore her and not call her back, although I've thought about calling / writing the vet. Gloria -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Speaking of depressing - Tonya
MaryChristine: Beautifully expressed. Thank you /mari this group gives us a place to all do whatever it is they we can do,while having a wide group of folks doing the same thing--and when we reach out and hold hands (and/or paws), we enlarge the circle, andsupport one another in ways that radiate out from that circle. we maynot encompass the world and its evils, but we each make adifference--and, together, we amplify and magnify one another. -- /mari (SpiritCat)Until there are none, adopt one.SpiritCat and the Mooseheart Mumpkeesof southeastern Texas[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
Immuno-regulin helped two of my cats with URI-- one of them had pneumonia. It is an immune booster, you can get it through Revival online, and there are articles about it on the felineleukemia.org web page. Chemo is often very helpful to cats with lymphoma, though they say that doing steroids first reduces the effectiveness. There are other steroids besides prednisone that tend to work better on lymphoma. A vet who was a friend of a friend taught me that giving 1/2 cc dexamethasone and 1/2 cc depomedrol in shot form really shrinks the tumor and makes them feel good. At first it is like once a month or every few weeks, but as they deteriorate it is more often. Stronger than pred and longer lasting, plus no pills. She said she oaccasionally had a cat go 6 months with lymphoma on these shots without chemo, which is pretty long. 14 years is very inspiring. I hope he has several more. Michelle
Re: Chinese cat/dog fur-shopping for our pets?- depression-bridge list addition
Tonya, I am so sorry you were exposed yet again to the idiocy and selfishness of the 2 footers. And I'm so proud of you and so grateful that you stopped for that kitty and took him to a vet. He was given a chance and was able to pass peacefully in a relatively quiet place.The balancing act is a tough one; I'm not going home for the family get-together because Smoky is dealing with his 2nd bout of cystitis in 4 weeks. He's feeling better, but I'm not comfortable leaving him. My mom understands, but my dad doesn't.If it would help, there are pet loss chats every night on www.pethobbyist.com, it's a very safe place to share if you're ready and/or inclined.http://chat.pethobbyist.com/schedule.php?site=catThe chat room is Haven - Pet Loss Support.hugscatatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You know, I LIVE at Walmart. I have thought and thought of boycotting them, even before this. But I went to petsmart today to buy litter and I HATE giving them my business as well when they are selling all of the poor exotic birds being teased by children running around and screaming at them. Thereptiles etc.Where in the h*ll can you shop with a conscience any more? It's all very depressing.And speaking of depressingYesterday about a quarter of a mile from my school I saw a cat writhing in pain and bleeding in the middle of the road with cars just driving around it! It had obviously just been hit or it would have already been hit again.I stopped traffic (because I'm sure if I had pulled over people would have just driven around me and run over the cat again) and got out of the car and ran to the cat. It was crying and I was afraid really to pick it up that I might be bitten. But I didn't have much of a choice, so I picked up the cat and carried it to the other side of the road and laid it in the grass. It went limp, and I thought it was dead.It was bleeding horribly from its mouth and head. I "knew" it wasn't going to make it until I could get it to a vet, but I felt his heart beating steadily and he was still breathing... So I picked him up and fought the traffic back across the street.I mean with the bleeding cat in my arms--trying to cross the street--- people didn't want to stop and let me cross! I had to basically force people to let me back into traffic when I got in the car to leave(they were all going around my car by nowagain). I put on my flashers, I blew my horn. People would not let me pass, and it took forever to go about 2 miles to the nearest vet. I got the cat to the nearest vet who was luckily open. He's someone I know, luckily. I told them to please get the doctor to euthanize the cat. I couldn't believe he was still alive! It was just terrible.Well, the doctor came in and started checking him and said he thought he could help him. He said he had bitten his tongue and that was what had caused all of the blood. He was in shock, had a concussion. But the doctor said his heart and lungs sounded ok and he would see what he could do.I left the cat there and went to work. I wanted to go home after all of that, and had a bad cold and didn't feel well anyway. But there were no subs so I was told to stay. I called back later and the doctor had put pins inthe cat'stop and bottom jaws which were both broken. He had a ruptured ear drum and concussion. He had inserted a feeding tube, but said he was hanging in there. He felt if he could get him stabilized with the feeding tube he could save him. (All without charging me! He's a nice guy. That's the ONE good thing from this story.) He said things were looking good so far and they were taking good care of him.Anyway, today I called and they said the cat (they had named him "Jaws". ha.) had died last night around 8:00.He was a gray tabby with a few brown markings and white feet. Very handsome. Now I feel guilty because I didn't stop after work and visit the cat again yesterday because I felt sick and just wanted to go home. A lot of my co-workers did say 'how awful' or they were sorry, or whatever, but they were just appalled that I decided I didn't want to go to the Christmas party after school. Iam just so MAD about the whole thing. I don't know what kind of world we live in that people treat animals so horribly and people are so uncaring. I don't see how anyone who is the least bit aware of the suffering doesn't suffer from depression like I do. I feel like many people on this list understand me better than my friends and family. How DO you deal with the daily emails of animals being gassed in overcrowded shelters, people dumping their pets, people abusing animals. It is just so sad and depressing to me all the time. I can't just 'turn it off' and go 'be happy' and 'not think about it'.I feel like "It's Christmas time and I hate the world." Merry Christmas...Maybe this shouldn't beon the list, but I would really like to know if others have a hard time handling or balancing
Re: Chinese cat/dog fur-shopping for our pets?- depression-bridge list addition
and, for what it's worth, i co-host the pet-loss support chats on Friday, Sunday and Monday nights MC http://chat.pethobbyist.com/schedule.php?site=cat The chat room is Haven - Pet Loss Support. -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Elderly woman overwhelmed with FIV + cats needs help finding res
http://www.homeforlife.org/angelcar.htm that's the MN sanctuary linky... -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
I haven't tried a vaporizer yet. I did try taking him into the bathroom and letting it fill up with steam, but it didn't seem to help much. The vet gave me Euphorbium, which I have never heard of, but it seems to be a homeopathic nasal spray for humans. I was told to give him one squirt up each nostril daily, but it doesn't seem to be doing a thing for him. His breathing hasn't improved at all since Monday, except that he is getting much better at breathing through his mouth. I am also giving him Nose Relief drops in his food and water 3 times a day, but since he didn't eat for 2 days, we are a little behind on that med. He seems to be taking the liquid food very well again today. I wasn't given any type of antihistamine. Do you think an antihistamine would help clear up his nose? and if so, which should I give him. I am worried that maybe I am just being over concerned about his nose being stopped up. The vet seemed to think that it would either clear up from the meds he is taking or not, but that he was breathing ok through his mouth so it wasn't critical to clear up his nasal passages. Honestly I don't know if anything will work though. His nasal discharge was a mixture of blood, and whatever other fluids were up in his sinuses (the vet said the tumors were shrinking and could have caused the increase in discharge). The thing is, when it dries, it is almost like rubber cement. It is thick and hard, yet almost rubbery. It is so weird. I have never seen anything like it. It has been almost impossible to clean it all off his face. I suppose that being a Persian might also have something to do with it as well. I have heard that Persians sometimes have chronic trouble with their noses, but he has never had any sort of problems until now. His lungs are thankfully still clear, so if anyone has ideas as to what might work to break-up what is in his nose, please let me know. My vet left today to go out of town for 2 weeks on holiday, so I don't know if I can get any new meds prescribed until she returns. She said the vet tech. would still be available so that we can go in for fluids or if things go down hill, we can go in for other options. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chandra~ When we have outbreaks of severe URI's at the shelter, we do use humidifiers/vaporizers in our Felv rooms. And it does seem to help. With one of my boys, who was prone to URI's, I would put him in my half bath with the steam vaporizer on. It really worked wonders for him, and having him in a smaller, confined area seemed to work best. Of course, I would have to spend time with him.. But, he did lose the congestion. My vet also had me use Little Noses, the pediatric nasal drops. What did the vet give you, was it saline drops? Usually, using the nasal drops helps bring relief relatively quick. Just have to administer them about every 4 hours. Is Buddha still on clavamox? My little Gus responded best to his URIs with either doxycycline or Zenequin. Just tossing things out here Also, he was prescribed an antihistamine to help w/ breathing. It sounds like the Alternative med. vet is understanding and compassionate. There should be more of them out there. I will be praying for Buddha's recovery. Please keep us updated. And I am sure other members will have some very good information to contribute as for addressing Buddha' s Felv status, in regards to supplements etc. (Interferon, etc) And as far as not going to the vets for the 8 years, I have to agree with your decision. I am quite leery of over-vaccinating exposing my companions to whatever viruses are lurking at the time. It sounds like you have been a very caring guardian for your boy, he is a lucky boy. I hope that you will have much more time together! Please, keep us updated. You'll find this is a very caring, compassionate supportive group. Also, very well informed on Felv ~ I can't stress that enough. Give Buddha a hug! Fondly, Patti Love is not necessary to life, but it is what makes life worth living. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
Are you sure that it is a cold and not lymphoma in his nasal passage? That is one of the places that they get lymphoma. One of my cats who died of lymphoma (I think, it was never definitively diagnosed) had a stuffy nose the whole time he was sick and nothing helped and I feel pretty sure at this point it was cancer and not mucous. Michelle
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
It could be. My husband actually suggested that it might be caused by the cancer and not an infection, but I don't think our vet ever said for sure. Maybe that is why she said that it would either respond to the meds or not. I was a little out of it when we took him in yesterday. Between me getting up to check on him and him waking me up, I have only been sleeping for an hour or so at a time since Sunday night. We know he had a fairly large tumor behind his right eye, which was causing it to discharge and droop, however that particular tumor has shrunk considerably. His eye is almost back to normal so it is quite possible that he does have tumors in his nose, but shouldn't they be responding to the steroids too? --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you sure that it is a cold and not lymphoma in his nasal passage? That is one of the places that they get lymphoma. One of my cats who died of lymphoma (I think, it was never definitively diagnosed) had a stuffy nose the whole time he was sick and nothing helped and I feel pretty sure at this point it was cancer and not mucous. Michelle Love is not necessary to life, but it is what makes life worth living. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
I am, unfortunately, very familiar with the feeling of only sleeping an hour or so due to checking constantly on a cat with cancer. I am sorry. It is horrible. Yes, I would think it would respond to the steroids too, but the steroids kept Buddy going for about 3 months and generally feeling good sometimes, but even when feeling good his nose remained stuffy. It could just be that the nasal passage is so narrow that even a small amount of tumor, after it has shrunk, is still somewhat of an obstruction, whereas other places in the body if it gets small enough it does not really interfere with function. Don't know, just speculating. You could ask to try the stronger steroids and see if they help. One word of caution though on the stronger steroids-- when Buddy had been on them for a few months his skin got kind of thin and cut easily and he got a big wound on his back where we were giving him shots and fluids. it was awful. I do not know if this was from the steroids themselves, as this did not happen to my others, but someone else told me once that after a few years on a milder steroid the same happened to her cat, so I thought it might have been from that. It is a longer-term problem, though, and obviously not as much a problem as the cancer. I would do the humidifier anyway. But in terms of bothering him with meds and nasal spray, if they don't work within a few days I think I would stop using them as it probably stresses him out somewhat. Michelle In a message dated 12/15/2005 12:24:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It could be. My husband actually suggested that itmight be caused by the cancer and not an infection,but I don't think our vet ever said for sure. Maybethat is why she said that it would either respond tothe meds or not. I was a little out of it when we took him inyesterday. Between me getting up to check on him andhim waking me up, I have only been sleeping for anhour or so at a time since Sunday night. We know he had a fairly large tumor behind his righteye, which was causing it to discharge and droop,however that particular tumor has shrunk considerably.His eye is almost back to normal so it is quitepossible that he does have tumors in his nose, butshouldn't they be responding to the steroids too?
Re: cat question
Janet, I have to agree with everything that Nina said. Having the cat spayed would probably be the humane thing to do. My cat Cricket was born with Feline Leukemia; his mother had it. I would like to urge you to consider keeping this cat if you are at all attached to it, and caring for it yourself. FELV+ positive is not necessarily a death sentence; many cats throw off the virus after they've been exposed, expecially those with good health care and a lot of love. FELV+ cats are hard to place, and many times, are euthanised because a lot of vets recommend it. But we do not agree with this policy. These kitties deserve a happy life being loved just as much as a cat that isn't FELV+. Cricket lived 4 and a half years, and probably would have lived longer had he not been stressed out by a house full of Hurricane Rita evacuees for a week, when the virus kicked in and he became anemic. Because he was born FELV+, his life expectancy was a lot less than he actually lived. Many kittens die by 6 months because their immune systems are so weak, and even more by two years old. No one can make this decision for you, but learn a little more before you make the decision and I wish you luck. Let us know what you decide. I'll keep you in my prayers. :) Wendy --- Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Janet, As Terri and Tonya have already mentioned, many of us mix adult negs that have been vaccinated with pos. It's a judgement call and of course no matter what our success rate in doing this is, there's no safer protection for your elderly cat than to not mix them together. That's what most vets will tell you. Being that your current kitty is older, I might not mix them together either. That said, if I were in this situation, I'd figure God sent her to me for a reason and I'd personally dive in with both feet and do whatever I could to save her and her kittens. I am all too familiar with the heartache involved with pos kittens. My experience with felv came when my husband and I found a box of kittens that were just 2.5 weeks old. Because they were so young, I assume the mother succumbed to felv from the stress of having them and the people who abandoned them didn't know how to care for them. Why else would they take them from their mother at that age? We lost 2 of our babies when they were about 6 mos old and two more before their 2nd birthday. The other two are doing fine and are reaching 2.5 yrs. Their lives were filled with love and concern and I'm not a bit sorry that I made the commitment to try and save them. Janet, you have some tough decisions ahead of you. You don't know me, so you might think I'm a monster for even bringing this up, but given what you've said in your post... It's going to be hard enough to place the mother, if she's healthy. I can't say what I would do in your place. I'm not you and I have no idea what you have to contend with. If someone steps up very quickly to adopt her, knowing she's pregnant, well that's a different story altogether. If you just found out she's pregnant, I'm supposing she's not too far along. Under the circumstances you describe, if you have her spayed, the kittens would be aborted at the same time and praying that she remains asymptomatic after the stress of the operation, you might have a chance of placing her. I couldn't bear to think about what might be in store for those babies if they lose their mother, and don't have a human willing to step in and care for them. My 2 cents on the harshness of reality. Now, what I'm praying for is that you've fallen in love with this little stray and you'll want to adopt her yourself. If so, there are many wonderful, knowledgeable people on this list who will support you no matter where that decision takes you. I'm also praying that someone, if not you, will hear this little girl's story, take her in and give her the kind of life every kitty deserves. Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Two weeks ago I took a cat in that had been abandoned. Today, I took her to the vet and found out she was tested as positive for feline leukemia. I also found out today that she is pregnant. I have a 15 year old cat that does not have leukemia. Thus, I cannot keep this new cat but I need to find a shelter that can take her or a family that this will be their only help. Please let me know if you have any ideas. I live in Florida. Thank you in advance, Janet __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Tonya- depression-bridge list addition
Tonya,I feel exactly the same way. Ever since seeing Larry King my depression has been overwhelming. Maybe I have been wearing blinders but I knew absolutely nothing about this situation and I wish I still knew nothing about it. I know that makes me a coward but I can't help it. I can't even watch the animal shows where the lions run the poor helpless prey down and kill them for food. I can't get the look of fear on the poor babies faces out of my mind. The cruelty in this world is unbelievable. I still can't sleep for the depression. If I could wake up and it would be spring, maybe that would help. All I can do now is write letters, sign petitions and try to get my friends to do the same. Sheila in SC trying to cope. God bless you for your kindness.
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
with persians, stuffy noses are very often a problem--sometimes it's nothing more than their anatomy--if there was a tumor by his eyes, i'd almost expect sinus/nasal impingement that even with the tumor shrinking might persist. i'd go with the vaporizer, and nasal drops if, as michelle said, it doesn't stress him out. as long as he's getting enough air i wouldn't worry too much only because those smushed-faced ones (who needs a profile, anyway?, my eight ask) can't be judged by ordinary standards! MC -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: cat question
Hi Janet, That simple act of rescue can certainly become complicated. I joined this list months ago after trapping a litter of feral positive kittens. I was looking for sound advice, which I got, and I should really sign off the list now since I can't keep up with the volume of emails but I hang on because this is the most sensitive, caring, THINKING list of people who love cats, so you couldn't have landed in a better place. That said, having seen too many hard-luck moms actually look grateful to have someone take over the care of yet another litter, I spay pregnant females in precarious positions for the mother's sake and the fact that there are already so many healthy, homeless kittens (and cats) out there already. Not a perfect answer, but one that makes sense to me, for now. Janine --- wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Janet, I have to agree with everything that Nina said. Having the cat spayed would probably be the humane thing to do. My cat Cricket was born with Feline Leukemia; his mother had it. I would like to urge you to consider keeping this cat if you are at all attached to it, and caring for it yourself. FELV+ positive is not necessarily a death sentence; many cats throw off the virus after they've been exposed, expecially those with good health care and a lot of love. FELV+ cats are hard to place, and many times, are euthanised because a lot of vets recommend it. But we do not agree with this policy. These kitties deserve a happy life being loved just as much as a cat that isn't FELV+. Cricket lived 4 and a half years, and probably would have lived longer had he not been stressed out by a house full of Hurricane Rita evacuees for a week, when the virus kicked in and he became anemic. Because he was born FELV+, his life expectancy was a lot less than he actually lived. Many kittens die by 6 months because their immune systems are so weak, and even more by two years old. No one can make this decision for you, but learn a little more before you make the decision and I wish you luck. Let us know what you decide. I'll keep you in my prayers. :) Wendy --- Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Janet, As Terri and Tonya have already mentioned, many of us mix adult negs that have been vaccinated with pos. It's a judgement call and of course no matter what our success rate in doing this is, there's no safer protection for your elderly cat than to not mix them together. That's what most vets will tell you. Being that your current kitty is older, I might not mix them together either. That said, if I were in this situation, I'd figure God sent her to me for a reason and I'd personally dive in with both feet and do whatever I could to save her and her kittens. I am all too familiar with the heartache involved with pos kittens. My experience with felv came when my husband and I found a box of kittens that were just 2.5 weeks old. Because they were so young, I assume the mother succumbed to felv from the stress of having them and the people who abandoned them didn't know how to care for them. Why else would they take them from their mother at that age? We lost 2 of our babies when they were about 6 mos old and two more before their 2nd birthday. The other two are doing fine and are reaching 2.5 yrs. Their lives were filled with love and concern and I'm not a bit sorry that I made the commitment to try and save them. Janet, you have some tough decisions ahead of you. You don't know me, so you might think I'm a monster for even bringing this up, but given what you've said in your post... It's going to be hard enough to place the mother, if she's healthy. I can't say what I would do in your place. I'm not you and I have no idea what you have to contend with. If someone steps up very quickly to adopt her, knowing she's pregnant, well that's a different story altogether. If you just found out she's pregnant, I'm supposing she's not too far along. Under the circumstances you describe, if you have her spayed, the kittens would be aborted at the same time and praying that she remains asymptomatic after the stress of the operation, you might have a chance of placing her. I couldn't bear to think about what might be in store for those babies if they lose their mother, and don't have a human willing to step in and care for them. My 2 cents on the harshness of reality. Now, what I'm praying for is that you've fallen in love with this little stray and you'll want to adopt her yourself. If so, there are many wonderful, knowledgeable people on this list who will support you no matter where that decision takes you. I'm also praying that someone, if not you, will hear this little girl's story, take her in and give her the kind of life every
Depressing stuff- a little OT
Nina, I feel exactly the same as you do. Why pay good money for entertainment only to leave a depressing movie with a sad ending, when we can watch the evening news for free? I don't watch the news either. Once, I thought I was going to go postal when PETA paid for an advertisement on TV showing pigs being killed. I just happened to be flipping through the channels around 11 pm one night and stopped to see what was going on. It happened so quickly and was not something I would have chosen to watch had I known what was going to happen. I resented PETA for putting that on TV. What if kids were watching that? Or a toddler wandered into the living room looking for mom or dad who might be asleep on the couch and saw it? I got so angry, I started throwing things and screaming!!! I couldn't believe my reaction. It made me sick to my stomach. I couldn't bear to watch a helpless animal be tortured like that. If I see an animal being hurt on TV, even if it isn't real, I can't watch it. I guess God gave me a serious compassion for animals. I wrote PETA and the TV station the very next day, because I didn't agree that the advertisement should have been on TV. I know, I know, what about those pigs? I am glad that there are groups out there who are advocating the humane treatment of animals, and I do support them, not all though. I also wonder how humans can be so cruel to one another. I think a lot of it has to do with drug use. So many people steal or kill while under the influence. The devil is out there and he is having a great time. Some forget that he's behind the evil, and anytime he can get his fingers into our lives, he takes the opportunity. Just remember he's out there and keep that in mind if you pray. It's my opinion that no matter what, we will never be totally happy or comfortable in our lives here on Earth, as we are not of this Earth. God never said that our lives would be easy here, and He's right, they aren't. In the meantime, I hope all of you enjoy your lives as much as you can, despite all the horrible things that do go on and do what you can about them, as many of you are already doing. Taking comfort in the little things, the simple pleasures of life, having faith, and prayer is all any of us can do to repel the evil. :) Wendy __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infections
Hi Chandra, Thank you for sharing your story about Buddha. What a wonderful story. I hope that Buddha pulls through and will keep him in my prayers. I also live in the Dallas area-Rockwall. I looked up that clinic and have added the information to my favorites in case I need to take one of my kitties. Thank you for the recommendation. I wish I would have known about this vet two months ago, when my Cricket started getting sick. I lost him on November 10th. I am sorry that I don't have any advice on URI's, but I do want to encourage you to continue hoping for the best. I know you are probably beside yourself right now worrying about Buddha, but it sounds as if you have a great outlook on this situation. And praise to you for taking such wonderful care of him for the past 14 years. Please keep us posted on Buddha's condition and if you need anything, just ask. :) Wendy __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
Chandra, I have a bottle of ImmunoRegulin that I ordered online in November. Cricket only had two doses of it before he passed and you are welcome to it if you want it. Let me know. :) Wendy --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Immuno-regulin helped two of my cats with URI-- one of them had pneumonia. It is an immune booster, you can get it through Revival online, and there are articles about it on the felineleukemia.org web page. Chemo is often very helpful to cats with lymphoma, though they say that doing steroids first reduces the effectiveness. There are other steroids besides prednisone that tend to work better on lymphoma. A vet who was a friend of a friend taught me that giving 1/2 cc dexamethasone and 1/2 cc depomedrol in shot form really shrinks the tumor and makes them feel good. At first it is like once a month or every few weeks, but as they deteriorate it is more often. Stronger than pred and longer lasting, plus no pills. She said she oaccasionally had a cat go 6 months with lymphoma on these shots without chemo, which is pretty long. 14 years is very inspiring. I hope he has several more. Michelle __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: cat question
I am sorry that the kitty has feLK --- I haven't read all the postings what other people said.. but it's going to be very hard to find a home for the kitty for the same reason that you think you cannot keep her. I really hope that you will find a way to be able to -- there is a reason why you found her or she found you. I have two Felk kitties and have dozens of negative (but they have some other things) --- My second FeLK baby, Tsubomi, I thought I was not going to be able to keep her because of different reasons, but found a way and still have her and am going to keep her, I think. I just found that she is also pregnant, so I am going to have her spayed.. fortunately, though she is positive and she is very asymptomatic.. my felk kitties are not mixed with negatives just because I have so many kitties, but I know that lots of people on the list do. Even if you have to separate the kitty from the other kitty in one room, I really sincerely hope that you will find a way to be her mom as she really needs you. Love, Hideyo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wendy Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 10:52 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: cat question Janet, I have to agree with everything that Nina said. Having the cat spayed would probably be the humane thing to do. My cat Cricket was born with Feline Leukemia; his mother had it. I would like to urge you to consider keeping this cat if you are at all attached to it, and caring for it yourself. FELV+ positive is not necessarily a death sentence; many cats throw off the virus after they've been exposed, expecially those with good health care and a lot of love. FELV+ cats are hard to place, and many times, are euthanised because a lot of vets recommend it. But we do not agree with this policy. These kitties deserve a happy life being loved just as much as a cat that isn't FELV+. Cricket lived 4 and a half years, and probably would have lived longer had he not been stressed out by a house full of Hurricane Rita evacuees for a week, when the virus kicked in and he became anemic. Because he was born FELV+, his life expectancy was a lot less than he actually lived. Many kittens die by 6 months because their immune systems are so weak, and even more by two years old. No one can make this decision for you, but learn a little more before you make the decision and I wish you luck. Let us know what you decide. I'll keep you in my prayers. :) Wendy --- Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Janet, As Terri and Tonya have already mentioned, many of us mix adult negs that have been vaccinated with pos. It's a judgement call and of course no matter what our success rate in doing this is, there's no safer protection for your elderly cat than to not mix them together. That's what most vets will tell you. Being that your current kitty is older, I might not mix them together either. That said, if I were in this situation, I'd figure God sent her to me for a reason and I'd personally dive in with both feet and do whatever I could to save her and her kittens. I am all too familiar with the heartache involved with pos kittens. My experience with felv came when my husband and I found a box of kittens that were just 2.5 weeks old. Because they were so young, I assume the mother succumbed to felv from the stress of having them and the people who abandoned them didn't know how to care for them. Why else would they take them from their mother at that age? We lost 2 of our babies when they were about 6 mos old and two more before their 2nd birthday. The other two are doing fine and are reaching 2.5 yrs. Their lives were filled with love and concern and I'm not a bit sorry that I made the commitment to try and save them. Janet, you have some tough decisions ahead of you. You don't know me, so you might think I'm a monster for even bringing this up, but given what you've said in your post... It's going to be hard enough to place the mother, if she's healthy. I can't say what I would do in your place. I'm not you and I have no idea what you have to contend with. If someone steps up very quickly to adopt her, knowing she's pregnant, well that's a different story altogether. If you just found out she's pregnant, I'm supposing she's not too far along. Under the circumstances you describe, if you have her spayed, the kittens would be aborted at the same time and praying that she remains asymptomatic after the stress of the operation, you might have a chance of placing her. I couldn't bear to think about what might be in store for those babies if they lose their mother, and don't have a human willing to step in and care for them. My 2 cents on the harshness of reality. Now, what I'm praying for is that you've fallen in love with this little stray and you'll want to adopt her yourself. If
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infections
In a message dated 12/15/05 9:16:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: and if they're employed the sameway with cats as they are with humans, i'd think that'd be morestressful to a highly compromised cat I must agree. Nebulizers can be VERY stressful on sick fur-kids. Also, I must admit, stressful to the human having to administer it! I think vaporizers are just as effective, although medication is put in nebulizer along with waterI just forget what it was we put in.. (senior moment) Patti
Re: Speaking of depressing - Tonya
In a message dated 12/15/05 10:16:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: MaryChristine: Beautifully expressed. Thank you /mari I must agree.. MC Nina have a beautiful way of expressing themselves. They always put things in the proper perspective for me...and I appreciate that very much. Patti
Re: Chinese cat/dog fur-shopping for our pets?- depression-bridge list addition
In a message dated 12/15/05 11:33:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: and, for what it's worth, i co-host the pet-loss support chats onFriday, Sunday and Monday nightsMC MC~ That is very good to know. Bless you for doing that. I just posted that you have a beautiful way with words, you must bring comfort to many. Patti
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
Wendy, Wow, that is so generous of you. You are so sweet. You know, I was just telling my husband last night that if Buddha has any meds left over when he passes, I would like to see if it is possible to donate them to someone else who is going through the same thing we are but who might not be able to afford all the treatments and meds, and then the very next day you made the same sweet sweet offer. That really means a lot to me. I have a question though, does ImmunoRegulin need to be given as a shot, or is it something that can be given orally? I am beginning to think that it isn't so much the URI that is bothering him, but the cancer. He is not doing well this afternoon. He ate some this morning, but only after much coaxing. He seems to respond better to my husband feeding him than when I try, which seems to be the case with almost everything this past week. He is very, very unhappy with me and I don't know why. If I try to pet him, he gets up and walks away, which given his weak state is no small feat. Did you go through anything like that when your cat was sick? He has never acted like this before in his life. He is usually soo needy. He has always acted as if the sole purpose of anyone who comes into my house is to pet him and love on him. Until a week ago, if we were sitting down, he was in one of our laps or trying to get into one of our laps. Now I can't even sit down on the floor next to him very long before he tries to move away. It really makes me sad. Almost everything that was unique and wonderful about his personality is gone. He seems as if he is becoming a sick, tired, shell of the cat he used to be. Julian, my husband, and I have decided that we are not going to give up hope, but we are also worried that Buddha might be ready to go, but that we are just not letting him. Yet at the same time, it still seems like he is willing to fight through this. The part that I haven't figured out yet is when do you know when they are tired of fighting and you are just keeping them alive to make yourself happy? --- wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chandra, I have a bottle of ImmunoRegulin that I ordered online in November. Cricket only had two doses of it before he passed and you are welcome to it if you want it. Let me know. :) Wendy Love is not necessary to life, but it is what makes life worth living. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Chinese cat/dog fur-shopping for our pets?- depression-bridge list addition
we certainly hope that we help--we ARE there every night of the year, including holidays On 12/15/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 12/15/05 11:33:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: and, for what it's worth, i co-host the pet-loss support chats on Friday, Sunday and Monday nightsMC MC~ That is very good to know. Bless you for doing that. I just posted that you have a beautiful way with words, you must bring comfort to many. Patti -- MaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
i always ask them if they're ready to go, and try really hard to listen to THEM, and not my own need to keep trying to help. i tell them to tell me when it's time; i pay great attention to whether they accept or fight treatment (fluids, force-feeding) i let them be by themselves if that's what they need (tho it kills me to do so; when someone wants to be off on their own, i just make sure they're comfortable, and keep coming by to check. one other thing that i do is to tell them, out loud, that they can leave when it's their time, that i'll be okay, that they don't need to stay for me the most valuable thing i've ever been told is that it's better to send them home one day too early than 5 minutes too late MC -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
Hello Chandra, As I was reading your post about Buddha's behavior, (responding to your husband better), I was thinking that he may be preparing himself for the transition, then when you said how uncharacteristic it is of him, and how his personality seems to have changed... My Grace did the same thing and even after I figured out that she was disconnecting from this plane and spending more time out of her body, it still hurt so much to not be able to cuddle and comfort her. She just didn't want it. I respected her wishes and she rewarded me with one final loving connection when we were in the vet's office waiting to help her cross over. It may just be that Buddha is in a great deal of discomfort, but it might also be that he feels your energy desperate for him to stay and he just isn't able to handle it. I so feel for you, you've been such a good mom and I'm certain that Buddha loves you very much. It's so hard to let go, whenever the time comes, our time together is never long enough. I so very much hope I'm wrong and I'm praying for a long and happy remission. Much love to you, Nina
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
Chandra, What you and Buddha are going through is very common, unfortunately, with cancer. All my babies who had cancer got that way when they did not feel well. Sometimes they even hid. They went up and down, though. Simon got so he did not want to be touched at all, would not touch food or water, and could not even walk. We did those strong steroid shots and two days later, when I thought he would pass at any moment, he sat up and asked for food and water, then was running around and affectionate the next day. He went back to chemo and had another good month. You just don't know. yes, I-R needs to be given as a shot, as an IV shot usually, by a vet. Seriously, given what you are describing, if you do not want to try chemo I would really ask for dexamethasone and depomedrol shots (1/2 cc each, can be combined) to make him feel better. These steroids are so much stronger and longer-lasting than prednisone, and they both increase appetite and energy and also make them feel happier. Josephine had lymphoma in her kidneys and intestines, and the tumors in her intestines would bulge out when the shots were wearing off, and within a few hours of giving her a new round the tumors would visibly shrink and she would get up and eat. Dexamethasone works very quickly, is very strong, and wears off within a day or so. Depomedrol takes a few days to kick in, and lasts for a long time (depending on stage of illness from a few days to a few weeks). The combination gives them a strong fast-acting steroid that shrinks the tumor and gives them energy fast (the dex) and by the time that starts wearing off the depo kicks in. It really does work well. It brought Simon back from the precipice, to the surprise even of the oncologist who had had to be talked into giving the shots. Ask others on this list-- I was giving hourly reports on how Simon was doing and not a soul on this list, myself included, thought he would last another day, and then all of a sudden he was up and about and hungry and happy and his blood values (liver and red blood cell) were so much better he was okayed for more chemo. Anyway, that is my suggestion. The steroids do not have any bad side effects short-term, are not expensive, and sometimes make them feel so much better. If they do not work, then it means they really are very close to the end. Michelle
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
nina, i know what you mean about them disconnecting--i've often felt that their spirits were gone before their bodies quite let go; i've also seen them go into what looks like a meditative state, as if they were making all their own preparations, regardless of their humans or other companions. sometimes the cuddling and holding we want to give is for US, and it's just not what they are needing. they KNOW they are loved, and they KNOW that leaving this plane is just part of the cycle in those cases, i make sure that i hug them with white light and radiated love--chosing to believe that they WILL accept the vibration i've also noticed that, often, right before they are leaving behind their old, used bodies, they perk up and are completely present. often, i'll see them get playful, almost kittenish--i think that is their gift to us, reminding us to remember THEM as they were throughout their lives, not just in their last days or hours. -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
Hey Chandra, I am sorry that Buddha isn't doing well this afternoon. That really stinks. Yes, the ImmunoRegulin has to be injected into a vein. I was totally opposed to that at first, because Cricket was what they call fractious, which means he could really act crazy at the vet. lol. But Cricket was feeling so badly that he didn't fight it at all the first time, and it was quick. The doctor didn't charge me the first time, and then charged me $10 tech time fee the next. They injected it into his front paw, on the side. They shaved it there first. I couldn't tell if it helped Cricket or not as he went downhill so fast, but he did seem to do better after the first injection. He just couldn't kick the anemia. There are a lot of people here who really like IR. They also like something called Interferon, which you might ask about. Yes, Cricket seemed a little miffed at me sometimes during the month he was sick. It made me feel horrible to be trying to help him, yet I knew he didn't understand why I was doing these things. Giving him meds all the time, force feeding him, taking him to the vet where they gave him shots or gave him anesthesia. It was a LOONG month, and I was so emotionally drained from all the stress. It's hard. I still have some of Cricket's other meds as well as the IR, but just have had a hard time dealing with his loss, so I haven't gotten around to donating them yet. I have been meaning to post something on the Petsmart board. I also told my vet that it was available, but they haven't called yet. I also have canned A/D, which is what they feed anorexic cats, if you need some. Ask your vet. There are some people on this site that use animal communicators. I never used one, never even knew what they were until I came to this site in November. Hideyo uses one all the time with her cats. The animal communicator is supposed to be able to act as a channel between you and your cat. Maybe that might be an option for you in finding out what is going on in Buddha's little mind. She also used the AC to find out if the animal is ready to pass over the bridge, which is what we call dying around here. He probably feels pretty badly and might not want to be around anyone much. Cricket kept climbing under our bedroom furniture. I was raised in the country. I know from that experience that when one of our animals was dying, they would wonder away from the home to do it. I wonder why animals do this. I am not saying that's what Buddha is doing. I don't know. But it might help explain his behavior. When I am sick, I don't want anyone touching me. Maybe it's that type of thing. You and your husband will know when it's time to let Buddha go, if that time is near. You will just know. I know that sounds crazy, but it's not. I kept thinking that it was time for Cricket, but he lasted another two weeks before I took him in to get a feeding tube inserted because he wasn't eating, and he passed away that night. He never quite got over the anesthesia, and couldn't breathe very well. You should know that after a short time of not eating (2 days???), kitties can develop fatty liver disease, which will kill them. That's why I went in for the feeding tube. But Cricket was ready to go, and now I regret doing the tube. I wish I would have helped him over the bridge that afternoon, instead of inserting the tube, but I couldn't have known, and given the same circumstances today, even knowing what happened with Cricket, I would probably do the same. It's so hard to give up on them. You never know when or if they will turn the corner. I am so sorry you and Buddha are going through this. Just hang in there and take each minute as it comes, and be really easy on yourself right now. :) Wendy __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infectio...
I so hope it's true that their spirits leave before their bodies give out. The thought of that makes me feel better about Cricket's passing. --- TenHouseCats [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nina, i know what you mean about them disconnecting--i've often felt that their spirits were gone before their bodies quite let go; i've also seen them go into what looks like a meditative state, as if they were making all their own preparations, regardless of their humans or other companions. sometimes the cuddling and holding we want to give is for US, and it's just not what they are needing. they KNOW they are loved, and they KNOW that leaving this plane is just part of the cycle in those cases, i make sure that i hug them with white light and radiated love--chosing to believe that they WILL accept the vibration i've also noticed that, often, right before they are leaving behind their old, used bodies, they perk up and are completely present. often, i'll see them get playful, almost kittenish--i think that is their gift to us, reminding us to remember THEM as they were throughout their lives, not just in their last days or hours. -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Tonya- depression-bridge list addition
Sheila and all, Keep on writing those letters - to the newspapers too. Bonnie Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead, anthropologist - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, December 15, 2005 11:59 am Subject: Re: Tonya- depression-bridge list addition To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Tonya,I feel exactly the same way. Ever since seeing Larry King my depression has been overwhelming. Maybe I have been wearing blinders but I knew absolutely nothing about this situation and I wish I still knew nothing about it. I know that makes me a coward but I can't help it. I can't even watch the animal shows where the lions run the poor helpless prey down and kill them for food. I can't get the look of fear on the poor babies faces out of my mind. The cruelty in this world is unbelievable. I still can't sleep for the depression. If I could wake up and it would be spring, maybe that would help. All I can do now is write letters, sign petitions and try to get my friends to do the same. Sheila in SC trying to cope. God bless you for your kindness.
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about Upper Respiratory infections
It sounds like Buddha is a real fighter. I had success using a holistic vet to get one of my positives through upper respiratory problems as a young cat. I lost her at about 8 years old.The humidifier will help. Just don't put any kind of eucalyptus smelling stuff in it or anything like that. I'm sure others on the list will have some advice too. I think they have used 'little noses' or something like that. I know the emergency room used some kind of children's nose drops on CC when she was there as well.I hope Buddha turns this around and feels better soon!tonyachandra simms [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a few questions and hopefully some words ofhope and comfort about sharing your life with an FeLVpositive cat. My cat, Buddha, tested positive for FeLV 8 years ago. At the time I had him tested he was not sick orshowing any signs that he might be FeLV positive. Hehad been vaccinated regularly, however one of mymothers cats had recently been diagnosed with FeLV andwas quickly deteriorating. Although Buddha and I hadbeen away at college for 2 years, he had spent timewith the infected cat when we still lived at home so Iwent ahead and had him tested just to be on the safeside. When he tested positive it was like someone hadreached in and ripped out my heart. At the time hewas already 7 years old and I had hoped that he wouldlive to a ripe old age. Our family vet suggested thatI have him tested again in 60-90 days to rule out afalse positive, but he said that he probably wouldn'tlive that long. Since Buddha had never been sick a day in his life,Buddha and I decided then and there that he was goingto be one of the rare and lucky few that don't succumbto the disease. Over the next 8 years he lived a veryhappy, healthy and stress free life. He celebrated his 14th birthday on October 13, 2005and it seemed as if he would sail through another yearwithout any problems. However, on November 7th he began sneezing, which thenturned to a runny nose and an irritated, watery lefteye. My husband and I decided he needed to see thevet, but couldn't get an appointment until the 11th. On the morning of November 9th, I woke up to the soundof Buddha having a sneezing and coughing fit. Iquickly noticed that he also had a bloody nose. I hadnever even heard of cats getting bloody noses, so Icalled my vet and told them that it was an emergency. I rushed him to the vet, where after $300 worth oftests, I was given frustrating news. Although all ofBuddha's blood work came back perfect and his organfunction was normal, his red and white blood count wasnormal, and even his cholesterol was good, I was givena bottle of Clavimox for his upper respiratoryinfection and was told to take him home and wait forhim to die. Probably within a week. This was exactly the reason I had avoided taking himto the vet for the past 8 years, which some peoplemight see as irresponsible, however he was never sick,never went outdoors, was never exposed to otheranimals and I was concerned about injection sitesarcoma. Also, I had never found a vet who had apositive outlook on FeLV infected cats. For a month he seemed as if he was going to yet againprove the "vet of doom" wrong, however a little over aweek ago I once again awoke to the sound of Buddhacoughing and sneezing, this time much worse. He wasvery lethargic and could barely open his left eye. Hewas so limp and listless, I was worried we wouldn't beable to get him to the vet in time. This time my husband and I took him to an vet thatpractices alternative medicine, in addition toconventional veterinary medicine and also specializesin FeLV positive cats. It was as if an angel had come into our lives. (Ifanyone reading this has a cat and lives in the NorthTexas/DFW region, I HIGHLY recommend Dr. Ballard atthe Alternative Veterinary Hospital)She immediately diagnosed him with Lymphatic Cancerand started him on steroid therapy supplemented withhomeopathic Immune System boosters, stress relievingdrops, Nutri-Cal vitamin gel, and more Clavimox. However, she did say that this was only going to be ashort-term solution and that IF he responded to thesteroid treatment and his tumors began to shrink, itwould only buy us a few weeks to months, a year at themost, which we were more than willing to take.By the time we got into the car to come home he wasalmost back to his old self. He was moving around,vocal and purring.I took Buddha back for his follow-up exam last Friday.His tumors had been responding very well to thesteroids and he seemed to be getting over his upperrespiratory infection. Which brings us to this week. At about 3am Mondaymorning I woke to the sound of him wheezing andsnorting. Like a person with a really stopped-upnose, who still tries to breath through their nose butcan't. I called the vet and she had me come in andpick up some nasal spray and drops for his water. We noticed Tuesday afternoon that he hadn't eaten allday. By Tuesday night he was breathing almostexclusively through his
Brenda (or anyone) link to forced feeding group
Could someone please forward the forced feeding group information to Peggy? thanks, tpegdun14206 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]From: "pegdun14206" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 17:19:38 -Subject: [animalcommunication] Re: zuzu-TonyaHi TonyaThank you so much for your advice. I looked up force feeding (never really thought of that) and there is a lot of information about it. If you have a source of good info, I would love to hear about it. It really does not look like the most pleasant of things to do but you do what you gotta do. I have a vet appointment in the next couple of days, I will talk to her about it. the good news is that I found something zuzu seems to be interested in eating (atleast for now) and even better news is that my other kitty Violet does not seem to like it. I gave her some spot stew for cats. I use to give it to the dogs but never thought about it for the cats. she is gobbling up the really mushy part of it and leaving the chunks. I am just so glad she is eating something. Hopefully it will last. I also got some the frozen raw food to try if and when this stops working. Please keep her in your thoughts. I am hoping we turned the corner. Thanks again.PegSpeak to My Heart: Carla Person's Step by Step Method for Shamanic Animal Communication. On DVD and Video. http://www.spirithealer.com/speak SPONSORED LINKS Animal communicators Animal health insurance pet Shamanic healer Pet animal Small animal pet supply YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "animalcommunication" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: Depressing stuff- a little OT (very freakin OT)
I know several drug users, one is my mate, he smokes marijuana, and he is one of the most compassionate, peace loving people I have ever met. The kids that brought Bones (the broken back kitty) to me were also known as part of the druggie crowd, yet they carefully scooped this poor crippled cat in their own hoodie, and brought her to me, because they knew I would know what to do. They were very concerned for her, and do still occasionally drop by my house to smoke pot with my mate, and they always inquire about Bones, and they pet her, and seem very genuinely happy that she is doing so well. True, there are many people on drugs that are bad people, BUT they would STILL be bad people even without any drugs. Most of the worst serial killers were NOT on drugs at the time they were committing murders. How many people do YOU know PERSONALLY that have stolen or killed while on drugs? Or are you, like so many others, just going on hearsay and the brainwashing put forth by our governments? Certainly you MUST have lots of first-hand experience on the topic to state your cause so boldly! The devil doesn't have a damn thing to do with anything. PEOPLE are bad because of how there are raised by other people, and because of the bad experiences in their lives. People make bad people, NOT the devil. The best way to combat evil is to take a proactive approach to children, to make sure that they learn to be compassionate adults, to rear them with values instilled in them that tell them how to treat other beings, be it other humans or animals. Be there for your fellow men, to support them through rough times in their lives, to lend support to them, and to show them that compassionate nurturing in their times of need is a good thing, something they will want to pass on to others. Show compassion for those who are not doing as well as you are, don't look down on the homeless, or the drug users, look to them as people in need of a helping hand, offer it to them, and show them that there is hope for a better tomorrow. Support public assistance for the poor, so they don't have to choose between buying clothes or buying food. Sure, there are people who take advantage of a free ride, but the people that do that NEED to do so, because they know nothing else, and if that is taken from them, they will suffer for it. In yourself, find inner peace, and pull that calm and satisfying emotion from within your inner self, and let it flow from your body, so that you are a beacon of peace and comfort to those around you who face difficulties in their lives. Teach love, respect, and compassion to others who are open to the teachings, so that you can spread the wealth of goodness throughout all mankind. This, all of this, YOU can accomplish, on your own, without seeking the support of any god, and without placing blame on any devil. I am NOT a Christian, and this is not a religious group to be used for preaching about your god, or the evils of your devil, or any such things. You can offer support to others without preaching your religion to them, without trying to convert them. This REALLY isn't the place to slander drug users, take it to a prohibitionist listserve. I don't come in here whine to everyone about Christians, and how they try to convert us all, and how I really think it's less to do with religion and more along the lines of world domination by religious force. Never once on this list have I ever preached about Satanism or Buddhism or Bahá'í or New Age Crystallology or Wicca, or any of the many religions I pull my wisdom from. I RESPECT the right to freedom of religion of others, and know my place in a setting of diverse people such as this list. It's just my opinion, but I think you should find yours. Jenn PS, you will not hear one more word from my on this topic, I have said all I will say on this list, and I apologize to everyone for it, but I felt I must reply to this thread to defend my religion and my friends in the presence of such attack. ~~~ I also wonder how humans can be so cruel to one another. I think a lot of it has to do with drug use. So many people steal or kill while under the influence. The devil is out there and he is having a great time. Some forget that he's behind the evil, and anytime he can get his fingers into our lives, he takes the opportunity. Just remember he's out there and keep that in mind if you pray. It's my opinion that no matter what, we will never be totally happy or comfortable in our lives here on Earth, as we are not of this Earth. God never said that our lives would be easy here, and He's right, they aren't. In the meantime, I hope all of you enjoy your lives as much as you can, despite all the horrible things that do go on and do what you can about them, as many of you are already doing. Taking comfort in the little things, the simple pleasures of life, having
Lucy's bowels and blood
After fasting for a day and then getting only i/d dry all day, Lucy had solid bowel movements this evening-- totally solid, at least on the outside. The only problem is that 1) the volume was still more than normal, although solid, and 2) for the first time there was blood. The blood was in small amounts on the outside edges and was red, and the bowels themselves were not black or tarry. Should I be worried about this? Could it just be from having a totally solid bowel after weeks of soft stool and diarrhea? Thanks, Michelle
Re: Depressing stuff- a little OT (very freakin OT)
Jenn, I am not talking about pot. I am talking about the drugs that make a person feel as if they need to kill to keep their high going, like heroine, crack, etc. These people can be out of their minds while on these strong mind-altering chemicals. And I am not slandering drug users. I am, however, stating facts. I do not believe that people doing bad things while on these drugs to keep their high are necessarily bad people without the drugs. And no, thank God that I don't have much first-hand experience with drugs; but I have friends and family who work in law enforcement, welfare (my mother), and other fields that come home with stories about the everyday lives of people who use these drugs. Thank you for sharing your opinions with me, and although I agree with a lot of what you say, such as how to raise children, I respectfully disagree with some of it. It would have been nice had you done the same instead of berating me for my views. We are all different and that's what makes the world such an interesting place. I am not here to start any arguments about anything. I am not here to convert anyone. And I do not agree that you respect the right of freedom of religion, as you have berated me here for my religious views. That is part of who I am and it will come through in my writing, and I am asking that you be respectful of that, as I will continue to be respectful of you. If you have anything further to say to me directly, please email me privately, as I do not enjoy being humiliated in front of people I respect. I apologize to all of you for getting off topic. Wendy __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Lucy's bowels and blood
Thank you! My research made me think it indicates colitis, as that is the only thing listed that talks about red blood on the edges, and says it results from a problem in the colon. But the fact that you have seen the same thing (yes, that's what it looks like) with Gypsy with the first normal stools makes me think, and hope, it might be that. Will update you (sure you can't wait!) tomorrow, Michelle In a message dated 12/15/2005 10:40:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Absolutely it could be from having the first solid bowel movement after weeks of diarrhea. On the outside edges and kind of streaked down the side right? Her little intestines and rectum are probably irritated and it's not that unusual to see a tiny bit of blood with the first normal stools. I see this sometimes with Gypsy too. Keep an eye on it, but I think you guys are okay. Congratulations on the normal poop!N
Chandra-- how is Buddha doing?
I have been thinking about him all afternoon and evening. I have been through what you are going through, and it is hell. I am hoping he is feeling better, though realize he may not be. I hope that you will try the steroid shots before giving up completely, as they may make him feel a lot better (if you can find a vet to give them), but the shots are not a panacea and will not cure the cancer. I am so sorry you and he are going through this. Michelle
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?
Hi Michelle! Unfortunately, not much improvement...he stays a the vet's office during the day for fluids and supportive therapy...his appetite is still close to nil and now he is combating severe diarrhea! The vet is trying everything she can think of and Ewok is being such a little sweet-heart about all of the poking, prodding and syringe feedings. I just made up a batch of pureed boiled chicken and brown rice...at least he's able to hold everything down...I'm going to give the slippery elm a shot, but I'm holding off on any beneficial bacteria as he is getting an antibiotic at the same time. I'm not sure what else to do but keep up the supportive therapy until his GI tract is in working order, again! I hope he bounces back soon, his blood-work is normal as of Monday, and the vet is going to check it again tomorrow...I miss my little fussy boy! :( Jen But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed... --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys. -- Chief Dan George - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, December 15, 2005 9:36 pm Subject: Jen-- how is Ewok doing? Any improvement in chemo side effect symptoms? Michelle
Re: Buddha's 14 success story and a Question about UpperRespiratoryinfections
I think that is a more accurate way to refer to it, Michelle. I remember oncemy hubby was on them for a bad case of poison ivy, and he was like the Tazmanian devil, he was a whirlwind of energy! On the flip side, he had terrible insomnia while on it.I also knew someone who took it foran acute asthma episode, and while she was on it, she flew into a rage and threw a knife at her own husband! She avoidedsteroid therapy because she knew she became a wild-eyed rather violent, short tempered person on it! I wonder if in catsit's different,especially if they take high doses for longer periods of time to treat cancer,as it is in Buddha's case. The euphoria is mainly seen in short term, tapering doses in humans, andpeaks with the highest dose and decreasesas the dose tapers. I do believe that cats are very sensitive beings to changes in our energy and mood, especially if we worry or have changes in our stress level. I feel like they may even be able to smell or detect the chemical changes in our bodies as a reaction to mentalstress or anguish.My opinion, only.However I do wonder if it is instinct for them to want to be alone when they are not feeling well. Ihope Buddharecovers from this episode and has many happy moments for you to share with him, Chandra. Sandy Cotton's mom re: I have heard of that with humans, but have never seen it in cats. I have heard it referred to as a "euphoric" actually, as it usually produces a sense of well-being, at least in cats. My cats all seemed pretty happy when the stronger steroids would kick in. The longest I ever did this for, though, unfortunately, was about 3 months. Michelle In a message dated 12/15/2005 10:41:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not sure if it's true in cats as it is in humans, but sometimes withhigh doses of steroids, there are personality changes. In humans, there is I have heard of that with humans, but have never seen it in cats. I have heard it referred to as a "euphoric" actually, as it usually produces a sense of well-being, at least in cats. My cats all seemed pretty happy when the stronger steroids would kick in. The longest I ever did this for, though, unfortunately, was about 3 months. Michelle In a message dated 12/15/2005 10:41:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not sure if it's true in cats as it is in humans, but sometimes withhigh doses of steroids, there are personality changes. In humans, there is
Re: Jen-- how is Ewok doing?
Jen, I am really sorry he is having so many symptoms. Is there any talk of giving the chemo a rest until he feels better? It is ok to give beneficial bateria while giving antibiotics, and it is in fact recommended. You just need to make sure you give it a few hours before or after the antibiotic doses so it does not get killed right away. I would definitely try the slippery elm. However, given how hard it as been to fix Lucy's diarrhea, I am not pretending to know how to fix this! It's very good he is holding down his food though. Is he still on Reglan? Michelle In a message dated 12/15/2005 11:09:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Michelle!Unfortunately, not much improvement...he stays a the vet's office during the day for fluids and supportive therapy...his appetite is still close to nil and now he is combating severe diarrhea! The vet is trying everything she can think of and Ewok is being such a little sweet-heart about all of the poking, prodding and syringe feedings. I just made up a batch of pureed boiled chicken and brown rice...at least he's able to hold everything down...I'm going to give the slippery elm a shot, but I'm holding off on any beneficial bacteria as he is getting an antibiotic at the same time. I'm not sure what else to do but keep up the supportive therapy until his GI tract is in working order, again! I hope he bounces back soon, his blood-work is normal as of Monday, and the vet is going to check it again tomorrow...I miss my little fussy boy! :(Jen
Re: Lucy's bowels and blood
Fresh blood is from the very lowest end of the tract - large intestine, rectum area and is much less worrisome than black stools. Fresh blood with a solid stool could be simple irritation after so long with soft stools. If you've had her stool tested, you could have ruled out clostridium perfringens or trych etc - but with her stool being solid, at least the c perf. is less likely..[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After fasting for a day and then getting only i/d dry all day, Lucy had solid bowel movements this evening-- totally solid, at least on the outside. The only problem is that 1) the volume was still more than normal, although solid, and 2) for the first time there was blood. The blood was in small amounts on the outside edges and was red, and the bowels themselves were not black or tarry. Should I be worried about this? Could it just be from having a totally solid bowel after weeks of soft stool and diarrhea? Thanks, MichelleBarb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile."- Anonymous__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
steroids and moods
I think it is really different in cats. They actually have a way, way higher tolerance for steroids than humans or dogs do. The amount of steroids I gave my cats with lymphoma would not be possible, proportionally, to give a human or a dog. Cats just have a phenomenally high tolerance for them for some reason. When Simon's oncologist was hesitant at first to do the kind of shots I wanted (dex and dep together), he did some research on how much steroids cats can get and told me that he was astounded at what studies have shown they can handle, like dex shots every day fairly long-term for bad skin conditions. After reading these studies he said he did not think the dex and dep shots could hurt and gave them, and Simon responded really well. The other thing that happens with humans and dogs, but not cats, from steroids is GI problems like ulcers. Cats do not tend to get GI reactions to steroids, due to their high tolerance. Michelle In a message dated 12/15/2005 11:11:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that is a more accurate way to refer to it, Michelle. I remember oncemy hubby was on them for a bad case of poison ivy, and he was like the Tazmanian devil, he was a whirlwind of energy! On the flip side, he had terrible insomnia while on it.I also knew someone who took it foran acute asthma episode, and while she was on it, she flew into a rage and threw a knife at her own husband! She avoidedsteroid therapy because she knew she became a wild-eyed rather violent, short tempered person on it! I wonder if in catsit's different,especially if they take high doses for longer periods of time to treat cancer,as it is in Buddha's case. The euphoria is mainly seen in short term, tapering doses in humans, andpeaks with the highest dose and decreasesas the dose tapers. I do believe that cats are very sensitive beings to changes in our energy and mood, especially if we worry or have changes in our stress level. I feel like they may even be able to smell or detect the chemical changes in our bodies as a reaction to mentalstress or anguish.My opinion, only.However I do wonder if it is instinct for them to want to be alone when they are not feeling well. Ihope Buddharecovers from this episode and has many happy moments for you to share with him, Chandra. Sandy Cotton's mom
Re: steroids and moods
Agreed,I have heard it IS different in cats. And for cats, I'm very glad. I would hate to wake up in the middle of the night to find my kitty glaring down at me from the nightstand with a tiny knife. (boo, hiss~I'll be here all week!) Eh-hem, anyways, I did not realize that dogs also get GI upset, but it's good info to know, since I do have dogs in my little fuzzy family as well. Often something like Zantac isprescribedto human patients along with steroidsto combat this unpleasant side effect. Butperhaps since steroids have been longer prescribed for humans, andis considered rathernon traditionaltherapy for cats,I wonder ifcatsdo experience other side effects that areunreported or more subtle.Might be something good to ask the vet, should my Cottonneed to be on steroids. Sandy think it is really different in cats. They actually have a way, way higher tolerance for steroids than humans or dogs do. The amount of steroids I gave my cats with lymphoma would not be possible, proportionally, to give a human or a dog. Cats just have a phenomenally high tolerance for them for some reason. When Simon's oncologist was hesitant at first to do the kind of shots I wanted (dex and dep together), he did some research on how much steroids cats can get and told me that he was astounded at what studies have shown they can handle, like dex shots every day fairly long-term for bad skin conditions. After reading these studies he said he did not think the dex and dep shots could hurt and gave them, and Simon responded really well. The other thing that happens with humans and dogs, but not cats, from steroids is GI problems like ulcers. Cats do not tend to get GI reactions to steroids, due to their high tolerance.
