Re: Ember

[Nina]

Lance wrote:
Three weeks ago, my mom took her 2 year old cat, Sadie, to
the vet.  Sadie had not been eating as well as usual, was getting
noticeably  thinner, and was listless. This had only been going on for
a week or  so. She obviously didn't feel good. Sadie tested positive
for feline  leukemia. The prospects, according to the vet, weren't
good. I don't  know what was said, other than that her life could only
be prolonged  a bit, and that she'd have to be isolated. My mom was as
upset as  I've ever seen her when she came to pick me up from work.
She'd had  Sadie put to sleep. I couldn't grieve for Sadie right then.
Not only  was it too much, but I became immediately worried about my
cat, Ember.
  

I'm so sorry about Sadie.  It's a real hot button
issue with me how most vets immediately recommend pts as soon as cat is
diagnosed.  What happened is so sad, but no matter what we do, there
are always doubts and questions.  We always wonder if there was
something else we could have done, or did something we shouldn't have. 
We'll never know, but perhaps your mom's decision saved Sadie what
might have been needless suffering.  Please tell her how sorry I am for
your mutual loss.
Ember is almost 4 years old. She tested negative for FeLV
as a  kitten. I don't know that she'd ever been vaccinated for it.
We'd  lived in an apartment in Madison, Wisconsin for several years,
and I  decided we should move back to my hometown in Arkansas for a
number  of reasons. We moved in with my parents, who had, a month
before,  taken in Sadie. Sadie wasn't tested for FeLV. I don't think my
dad  knew to ask, and the vet apparently didn't volunteer. Ember and
Sadie  were good buddies. Ember is petite for an adult female, and
Sadie  used to jump on her and bite her. They loved to play. I'm
guessing  that this was the mode of transmission, as, an hour or so
after Sadie  was put to sleep, I took Ember to the vet. She tested
positive.
  
  
We have three other cats. Two of them, a 2 year old male and a 13  year
old male, are indoor only, while a 6 year old male is indoor/ outdoor.
All tested negative, despite grooming each other (Sidney  would groom
Sadie at times), eating from the same dishes and sharing  sleeping
spots on occasion.
  
  
Ember and I went to another vet a week later. She still tested 
positive (not faint and not strong; right in the middle). Her white 
blood cell count was at the lowest end of normal possible. The rest  of
her blood work was good. She had (has?) a slight rasp in her  throat.
Otherwise, no problems. Not even stress-related fever. She's  eating
and drinking well, and enjoys the games we've started playing,  now
that she's isolated in my room.
  

Ember might very well be in the process of
fighting off the virus and could later test neg, (even without being
vaccinated many healthy adult cats will contract the virus and then
clear it from their system).  That would explain the slightly lower
wbc.  Kittens, geriatrics, and generally infirm cats are the ones that
felv hits the hardest.  The fact that she's already 4 years old and is
lively bodes well for her.  

The folks on the list have discussed mixing negs and pos many times. 
If you do a search on the archives you'll see that many mix without
problems.  Of course the safest thing to do is to keep them separate,
but if your guys have been living together for any length of time and
the negs have now been vaccinated, you might want to reconsider their
living arrangements.  Esp if it is causing Ember any distress.
The vet put her on interferon (1cc/day, five days on/five
days off).  I stopped feeding her Prescription Diet t/d dry food, and
switched  her to "Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul" dry and
Felidae  canned. I'm hoping to get her on Innova EVO dry and canned in
the  next few weeks. I regret that it took FeLV for me to find out
that  Hill's is not the best thing to be feeding any pet.
  

The "pulse" protocol method (on again, off
again), is used to help combat building resistance to the interferon's
benefits.  It is thought that Interferon Omega, which is derived from
feline DNA rather than human, isn't susceptible to this.  I used the IA
as well as the IO and would give them the IA daily if they "didn't seem
themselves", upping the dose based on their level of symptoms/illness. 
When they were acting normal and healthy, I'd take them off it all
together.  Some think that keeping them on the pulse method
indefinitely will benefit their immune response and keep them from
getting sick in the first place.  There are just too many things that
we don't know.  You have to follow your gut when your sifting through
all the options.

A good diet, keeping stress to the absolute minimum and immune support
are the best ways to keep our asymptomatic pos healthy.  It sounds like
you're doing all the right things.  I used to give my guys Vita C,
L-lysine and something called Transfer Factor as well as Interferon A. 
I also used Interferon Omega when the

Re: Prayers needed Walter and Demetri

[Nina]

Sherry,
Prayers and good wishes for you, Demetri and Walter.  What you are
doing at the rescue is so tough, I really applaud you.  It's obvious
that each one of these babies touches you deeply, if I can tell, you
can be sure they can too.  Your Maizee Grace must be so proud of you
for all you do to help them see how special and worthy they are. 
You're a good human Sherry.  Let the kitties know they have a friend on
the other side that is watching over them on earth and will be there to
welcome them to the other side when their time comes.
Nina



Sherry DeHaan wrote:

  Hi all,just need a few prayers for a couple of our Sanctuary
kitties.Walter is an older guy with failing kidneys but no other
diseases.And my sweet Demetri is a felv+ boy,who I have become attached
to,his lymphnodes are huge.I am hoping just an infection,but Jen took
him to the clinic today before I got to see him and I am so scared that
I may not see him again.I know I should think positive,but I am so
worried.so I knew if I asked you wonderful people for prayers he would
stand a better chance. :) Thank you all 
  Sherry
  

OT Fwd: Brooklyn kitty, Bonnie, needs help

[gblane]

From: kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 18:10:11 -0800

I realize this is a bit off the subject but I have been corresponding with
a lovely caring woman in New York who is so very desperate to find a home
for Bonnie,,a beautiful, young, shy female Black kitty who is currently
residing in a Temporary room at her vets office,
Bonnie was rescued in a snow storm and was the sweetest thing every. Sadly
between her ill husband and her other cats terrorizing this sweet girl she
needed to find her a home,
Right now the vet is keeping her temporarily in a room with 2 other cats,
She gets along great with those kitties, but now is quite people shy and no
one will give this girl a chance, and her time is running out,
If there is anyone anywhere close or knows of anyone willing to adopt this
baby please email me privately and I will send you her picture and the name
of this kind woman in New York.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'll will keep my fingers crossed .
Thank for listening
Oh, She is FIV and FELV negative, spayed and vaccinated,
Kelly

Re: Prayers needed Walter and Demetri

[gblane]

Sherry, I'm sending out prayers for Walter and 
Demetri.  I know how you feel.  Gloria


At 10:02 PM 3/27/2006, you wrote:
Hi all,just need a few prayers for a couple of 
our Sanctuary kitties.Walter is an older guy 
with failing kidneys but no other diseases.And 
my sweet Demetri is a felv+ boy,who I have 
become attached to,his lymphnodes are huge.I am 
hoping just an infection,but Jen took him to the 
clinic today before I got to see him and I am so 
scared that I may not see him again.I know I 
should think positive,but I am so worried.so I 
knew if I asked you wonderful people for prayers 
he would stand a better chance. :) Thank you all

Sherry


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PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

Re: Add Tad to the CLS

[gblane]

Thank you, Tonya, you're so right.

Gloria

At 07:46 PM 3/27/2006, you wrote:
That is so sad Gloria.  Please give my condolences to your 
friend.  I came home today to an 'accident'.  No.  It's not 
pleasant.  But people have babies and children who have accidents 
all the time and they don't give them away or put them 
outside.  People just make me so mad.


t

Nina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Gloria,
I'm sorry to hear about Tad. You're friend must be so upset with his
parents because of what happened. It's so sad that not everyone is as
understanding and indulgent about living with a loved one that happens
to be a different species. I wonder if your friend will consider having
their parents sleep in the back yard if/when they become incontinent. I
don't know Gloria, one of the first things that went through my head was
that Tad at least crossed quickly and he was living his last days the
way he wanted to. Not much consolation to a grieving fur-parent though.
Please send your friend my condolences,
N

Gloria Lane wrote:

> Please add my friend's cat Tad (not FELV) to the Candlelight list.
> Tad was older - about 16, a pretty yellow-orange cat with a sweet
> disposition. He was injured while being outdoors several weeks ago.
> My friend said he was going to keep Tad inside after that, but they
> didn't. There was problems of Tad peeing on the carpet, so my
> friend's older mom and dad started letting Tad out after supper. He
> was hit be a car on their busy street and killed. I'm just really
> sad and angry about this since it could have been prevented. I am
> comforted to know that at least Tad had a long happy life.
>
> Gloria
>
>
>
>

Prayers needed Walter and Demetri

[Sherry DeHaan]

Hi all,just need a few prayers for a couple of our Sanctuary kitties.Walter is an older guy with failing kidneys but no other diseases.And my sweet Demetri is a felv+ boy,who I have become attached to,his lymphnodes are huge.I am hoping just an infection,but Jen took him to the clinic today before I got to see him and I am so scared that I may not see him again.I know I should think positive,but I am so worried.so I knew if I asked you wonderful people for prayers he would stand a better chance. :) Thank you all   Sherry
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Re: Ember

[Sherry DeHaan]

Lance,Ember is a beautiful cat!!  SherryBONNIE J KALMBACH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Lance,Ember is really beautiful She looks like she has a dark brown undercoat.Bonnie- Original Message -From: Lance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Monday, March 27, 2006 4:55 pmSubject: Re: EmberTo: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Sherry,> > Thank you for sharing, though it's a sad story. I hope you are > doing > better today. Thank you, also, for your prayers and thoughts for > Ember and I.> > > Lance> --> Pictures of Ember: > > 
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Re: Add Tad to the CLS

[catatonya]

That is so sad Gloria.  Please give my condolences to your friend.  I came home today to an 'accident'.  No.  It's not pleasant.  But people have babies and children who have accidents all the time and they don't give them away or put them outside.  People just make me so mad.  tNina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Gloria,I'm sorry to hear about Tad. You're friend must be so upset with his parents because of what happened. It's so sad that not everyone is as understanding and indulgent about living with a loved one that happens to be a different species. I wonder if your friend will consider having their parents sleep in the back yard if/when they become incontinent. I don't know Gloria, one of the first things that went through my head was that Tad at least crossed quickly
 and he was living his last days the way he wanted to. Not much consolation to a grieving fur-parent though.Please send your friend my condolences,NGloria Lane wrote:> Please add my friend's cat Tad (not FELV) to the Candlelight list. > Tad was older - about 16, a pretty yellow-orange cat with a sweet > disposition. He was injured while being outdoors several weeks ago. > My friend said he was going to keep Tad inside after that, but they > didn't. There was problems of Tad peeing on the carpet, so my > friend's older mom and dad started letting Tad out after supper. He > was hit be a car on their busy street and killed. I'm just really > sad and angry about this since it could have been prevented. I am > comforted to know that at least Tad had a long happy life.>> Gloria

RE: a new place for my ginger and Tsubomi

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Not yet –

They have not contacted me – so right
now, I am staying low.  Merry was quietly checking into if there is anyway
to get a permit without me starting from the beginning – the city
mentioned that I need to go through this permit process from all over again –


 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 6:08
PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: a new place for my
ginger and tsubomi



 



That's great, Hideyo.





 





Did you ever get your permit?





 





Michelle

Re: a little help with litter training the new cat

[Lewis Faye]

My kitties that had recurrent litter box problems had recurrent tapeworm problems.  To this day, they will miss the box when they get tapes.  Fortunately, they haven't had tapes in quite a while.     A tablespoon of pumpkin (canned raw pumpkin, not pie filler which has sugar and spices that you don't want) can help some cats with recurrent problems.     Kefir or yougurt is another aid that occasionally works.      Definitely feed fiber (pumpkin or a food with high fiber content).       Of course good litter box hygiene and experiment with different litters. I like 2 litter boxes to every 3 cats some groups may require more but his works well for my crew.  I do let my cats outside to go to the bathroom as well.       I have two females that will not use a used box.  Even if the box is used only
 once.  Multiple boxes is necessary and two cleanings daily are a necessary minimum for my bunch.     IBD is actually quite rare.  Missed litter boxes is more likely to be caused from other causes.  A good vet workup does not hurt but don't rush into an IBD diagnosis.  I know folks that spent a lot of time with that diagnosis only to have the problem instantly solved with pumpkin.     Hope some of this helps.  Good luck.  Been there and know the frustration but take heart, the problems can be overcome.        Patricia Lamoretti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Sounds like a possible case of IBD.  Cats will typically go outside the box because there's discomfort ... kinda like a urinary problem.  Has Yodel been
 tested for parasites (just starting with basics)?  You may want to change the food.  Try a higher protein, human grade, canned food.  Stay away from the kibble and if that doesn't work ... see a vet, I guess ... Unless someone has another suggestion?  You can also go onto Feline IBD sites/groups/message boards and post there about your problem.  Good Luck -- PAT  JENI RECA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Hi,  I know this was the best place to ask about cat questions, so here goes...I just brought a new feluk postive 6 month old cat (Yodel-lay-he-hoo, yodel for short) to our apartment, we have a feluk postive 6 month old cat (papoose) now and three dogs.  Yodel seems not to like to poo in the litter box, but will poo in the bath tub and also on top of my husbands
 coat on the kitchen table (wow was he not happy about that, since he didnt even want the first cat) ...our set up at first when we brought him home to our one bedroom apartment was, yodel in the bathroom with his own litter pan and papoose had the rest of the place with his own litter pan.  Yodel pooed in the tub, the cat behavorist at the shelter thought he liked the feeling of the tub and suggested we take out some of the litter, so we did, and well that didn't help, but we didnt find poo in the tub, but we didnt see any in the litterpan and well couldnt find any presents in the bathroom.  We gave him more run of the house and (that may have not been the best choice but he was meowing up a storm in the bathroom!) we thought we were going ok for a little some poo in the litter box which is located in a crate with a small opening for the cats to go in and out of, but the dogs that love to eat poo can not get to it (just our luck dogs that love to eat cat poo). 
 The other night he pooed on my husbands coat.  I am going to introduce another litter box in the crate, but we unfortunately can not place a bunch all over the place because of our dogs.  Any suggestions , we are going to try different litter and hopefully try to get a litter pan that the dogs cant get into...thank you  oh and papoose seems to like to beat up yodel and hold him down and then lick him furiously and then beat him up again..is that odd? (i just feel bad for the new cat, cause he is such a lover and he hates the dogs and papoose is a bully to him)  Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
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Re: a new place for my ginger and tsubomi

[Lernermichelle]

That's great, Hideyo.
 
Did you ever get your permit?
 
Michelle

RE: a new place for my ginger and tsubomi

[Hideyo Yamamoto]

Hi, everyone, I just wanted to share about
a new place for my two felk babies – as some of may recall, they are in
the very small area due to the space constraint in my house and every time, I see
them, I feel so badly and guilty and not being able to give them a bigger place
– so I thought and though for several months and found a way to give them
a bit more space.. I cut one of the bedroom in half – I hired someone and
created a divider in the room with plexi glass and screen so that they can see
the other side of the room and they can also get air in the room – so now,
the new space is connected to the room (bathroom they were originally in) so
they have twice as much as the space they were in before.  I also put a big cat
condo/tower so that they can climb up and downs and see the view from a new
window (they also have one window and cat condo in the original space, too) ---
Tsubomi is more outgoing.. so she has been climbing up and downs since yesterday,
and she also can see other kitties and me all the time, through the screen and
plexi glass as the room is facing to the hallway and the room where a lot of other
kitties hang out…  On the other hand, ginger is freaked out because of
the noise from building stuff yesterday and the fact that now there is new
space.. she has been hiding since yesterday. I am praying that she will come
out and start playing in a new room with Tsubomi –

 

This is sort of stuff that just satisfies
me – but I wanted to share because this is something that I wanted to do
for such a long time ever since I got ginger a year and half ago and now my
dream sort of came true…

 

 

Love to all your kitties.

 

Hideyo

Re: Ember

[BONNIE J KALMBACH]

Lance,
 Ember is really beautiful She looks like she has a dark brown undercoat.

Bonnie

- Original Message -
From: Lance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, March 27, 2006 4:55 pm
Subject: Re: Ember
To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

> Sherry,
> 
> Thank you for sharing, though it's a sad story. I hope you are 
> doing  
> better today. Thank you, also, for your prayers and thoughts for  
> Ember and I.
> 
> 
> Lance
> --
> Pictures of Ember: 
> 
> 

Re: Ember

[Lance]

Sherry,

Thank you for sharing, though it's a sad story. I hope you are doing  
better today. Thank you, also, for your prayers and thoughts for  
Ember and I.



Lance
--
Pictures of Ember: 

Re feLV treatment

[Lance]

Sharon,

I'm really sorry to hear that you also have a loved one who is FeLV  
positive. As for your question about which of the two mentioned  
treatments is best, most anyone here can provide lots of information.  
From what I know, it doesn't necessarily hurt to do both treatments.  
My cat, Ember, tested positive after we lost a younger cat, Sadie, to  
FeLV symptoms. Ember is on interferon right now, but she's only had  
one week's dose of it. My vet did not mention any other treatments,  
but I'm going to ask him about several, including acemannan, when we  
go in next.


I hope that your cat can be aggressively treated for whatever is  
causing him or her to feel sick, and that you can then get on with a  
good treatment for FeLV after eating has resumed. I also hope that  
you can find an intelligent, compassionate vet who has more  
experience with FeLV than your other vets seem to have. Don't give  
up. I'll be thinking about you and praying for you. Take care.



Lance

feLV treatment

[sharon MISTIC]

Help! My cat, 11 years old was diagnosed with Feline leukemia over 1 year 
ago, the vet did nothing, so I went to another vet.  What is the best 
treatement, interferon or acemannan, or both. She has just started to 
regurgitate her food, and seems to have trouble eating, right after she eats she 
cries and regurgitates a little, just started a few days ago.  I am seeing 
a new vet tomorrow to start new treatment, acemannan seems the most promising, 
she has been very healthy so far. 
My moms cat also has feline leukamia, got it from the same kitten who 
died.  She is healthy sofar, but I want her to get treatment, her vet 
didn't recommend anything either!
Sharon

Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[BONNIE J KALMBACH]

Jen,
  You're a person after my own heart. If the human species were judged
on how they
treated the environment - not to mention other humans, we wouldn't rank
so high in the scheme of things. 
  I fell and broke my collarbone a couple of years ago. They gave me a
pain-killer which I immediately looked up. I found that it had been
tested at the
University of Michigan by hurting cats. I wouldn't use it - even though the
pain was excruciating when during the night I would roll over on that
shoulder
in my sleep.

Bonnie

- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, March 27, 2006 1:49 pm
Subject: Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

> I guess one of my problems with animal reasearch (aside from the
> obvious) has to do with the under-lying assumption that humans are
> somehow "superior" just because we can add 2 and 2 and, therefore, 
> a few
> petty conveniences or a couple of years on our lives is worth the
> "inconvenience," torture, or even deaths of "a few measly animals." 
> Need I point out that if we don't learn PDQ how to live in harmony 
> withour surroundings (as animals have been literally dying to show 
> us for
> some time now), all the 2 + 2s in the world aren't going to save our
> collective butts!  Perhaps if we were held responsible for every 
> singlepiece of trash that left our homes instead of forgetting all 
> about it
> once it left our curbs, we'd think twice about our indulgent, 
> disposablelifestyles...but I digress... :)
> 
> Bottom line, we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the 
> subjectsin question were orphaned *children* being sold to research 
> facilities. But these are just animals, right?  Animals that are 
> going to die
> anyway, right?  When one needs to rationalize the action, that 
> should be
> a huge red-flag that perhaps the action just isn't right...many German
> citizens turned their backs on their own Jewish neighbors because, 
> hey,"What can I do about it?"  Thank God for the few who stood up 
> and said,
> "This isn't right."  But, then again, we're talking about *people*
> right?  Animals, living, breathing beings, forfeit their right to 
> be the
> masters of their own destiny because they can't add 2 and 2.  A
> so-called "necessary evil" is still, by definition, "evil."
> 
> Jen
> 
> 
> "But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be
> unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the 
> world; You
> become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed..." --Antoine de
> Saint-Exupéry
> 
> "If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know
> each other.  If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and 
> whatyou do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys." --
> Chief Dan
> George
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Monday, March 27, 2006 12:17 pm
> Subject: Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> 
> > The fact of the matter is they will get animals some where any 
> way...> Now, most of them come from back yard breeders that breed 
> animals> for just that market
> > Perhaps if more shelters sold to research the animals that they 
> are 
> > going to PTS
> > that would put some of the back yard breeders out of business
> > 
> > If the business arraignment is to sell animals that have a chance 
> > for 
> > adoption
> > than I too have a problem with that but if these are animals 
> among 
> > the 6 
> > million
> > per year that are out of time and going to be PTS and the money 
> is 
> > spent 
> > at the
> > shelter so that they can do more good work than what is wrong 
> with 
> > that ???
> > 
> > And again, most research is done so the manufactures can back up 
> their> claim the their product is the best...NOT that their product 
> causes 
> > the most
> > suffering... They want the results to be a happy ending...
> > Not all tests are successful but for the most part they aren't 
> > going to 
> > waste
> > their time and money on a test that they aren't pretty sure will 
> > work... 
> > Even if its testing for a cure for a disease and they infect they 
> > animaland then try to cure it or put to sleep and examine you are 
> > still talking
> > about animals that were going to be PTS earlier anyway...
> > 
> > Tad
> > 
> > TenHouseCats wrote:
> > 
> > > i do NOT admit to be totally up-to-date on this
> > >  
> > > i have to agree that not ALL research is inherently bad. 
> however, 
> > in 
> > > this case, there's a BUSINESS arrangement between the shelter 
> and 
> > one 
> > > Class B Dealer--as far as i know, the shelter couldn't care 
> less 
> > where 
> > > the animals end up, they just sell them to the dealer there 
> > have 
> > > all been any number of hearings, public demonstrations, etc 
> > through 
> > > the years--the MI

Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[jenmeyer]

I guess one of my problems with animal reasearch (aside from the
obvious) has to do with the under-lying assumption that humans are
somehow "superior" just because we can add 2 and 2 and, therefore, a few
petty conveniences or a couple of years on our lives is worth the
"inconvenience," torture, or even deaths of "a few measly animals." 
Need I point out that if we don't learn PDQ how to live in harmony with
our surroundings (as animals have been literally dying to show us for
some time now), all the 2 + 2s in the world aren't going to save our
collective butts!  Perhaps if we were held responsible for every single
piece of trash that left our homes instead of forgetting all about it
once it left our curbs, we'd think twice about our indulgent, disposable
lifestyles...but I digress... :)

Bottom line, we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the subjects
in question were orphaned *children* being sold to research facilities.
 But these are just animals, right?  Animals that are going to die
anyway, right?  When one needs to rationalize the action, that should be
a huge red-flag that perhaps the action just isn't right...many German
citizens turned their backs on their own Jewish neighbors because, hey,
"What can I do about it?"  Thank God for the few who stood up and said,
"This isn't right."  But, then again, we're talking about *people*
right?  Animals, living, breathing beings, forfeit their right to be the
masters of their own destiny because they can't add 2 and 2.  A
so-called "necessary evil" is still, by definition, "evil."

Jen


"But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be
unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You
become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed..." --Antoine de
Saint-Exupéry

"If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know
each other.  If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what
you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys." --Chief Dan
George

- Original Message -
From: Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Monday, March 27, 2006 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org

> The fact of the matter is they will get animals some where any way...
> Now, most of them come from back yard breeders that breed animals
> for just that market
> Perhaps if more shelters sold to research the animals that they are 
> going to PTS
> that would put some of the back yard breeders out of business
> 
> If the business arraignment is to sell animals that have a chance 
> for 
> adoption
> than I too have a problem with that but if these are animals among 
> the 6 
> million
> per year that are out of time and going to be PTS and the money is 
> spent 
> at the
> shelter so that they can do more good work than what is wrong with 
> that ???
> 
> And again, most research is done so the manufactures can back up their
> claim the their product is the best...NOT that their product causes 
> the most
> suffering... They want the results to be a happy ending...
> Not all tests are successful but for the most part they aren't 
> going to 
> waste
> their time and money on a test that they aren't pretty sure will 
> work... 
> Even if its testing for a cure for a disease and they infect they 
> animaland then try to cure it or put to sleep and examine you are 
> still talking
> about animals that were going to be PTS earlier anyway...
> 
> Tad
> 
> TenHouseCats wrote:
> 
> > i do NOT admit to be totally up-to-date on this
> >  
> > i have to agree that not ALL research is inherently bad. however, 
> in 
> > this case, there's a BUSINESS arrangement between the shelter and 
> one 
> > Class B Dealer--as far as i know, the shelter couldn't care less 
> where 
> > the animals end up, they just sell them to the dealer there 
> have 
> > all been any number of hearings, public demonstrations, etc 
> through 
> > the years--the MI county that i am in was embarrassed out of 
> selling 
> > their animals to a similar dealer a few years back.
> >  
> > i can most probably get updates on where the fight stands now, 
> and who 
> > is doing what--i'm sorry to say that i have NOT kept on top of it 
> > because i can only fight so many fights at one time. but i do 
> have 
> > local contacts with far more information and expertise than i do
> >
> >  
> > On 3/27/06, Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > wrote:
> >
> > PLEASE...Some specific eye witness examples that other can 
> visit and
> > bring attention to the local
> > sheriff will do .
> > What are they testing for 
> > What treatment are they doing that is so bad
> > compared to being kept in a small cage with no
> > outside windows for years...(many no kill shelters)
> >
> > Tad
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote

Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[PEC2851]

Tad~
I have the utmost respect for you, I really do.  I also think you are 
a very caring, compassionate person, and have done so much for Felv's that were 
facing a certain death
 
HOWEVER, on this issue I must say, IMO, you are NOT very informed on 
exactly what goes on in research labs
Drawing blood for tests VS ANIMALS USED FOR RESEARCH
No way, sorry..
 
The shelter I've worked with for the last 25+ years has become a refuge for 
some VERY fortunate LABORATORY ANIMALS that were literally smuggled out the 
back door of John Hopkin's teaching facility in 
Baltimore, Md.
YEPthe same JOHN HOPKIN'S UNIVERSITY that 
SWEARS it does not use animals 
for research.
Bull Sh*t
Tad, until you actually SEE the horrors inflicted on these poor beasts, DO 
NOT toss it off as a "minor" thing.
I HAVE SEEN IT!!!  I HAVE WORKED COUNTLESS HOURS WITH THESE 
"LIBERATED" LAB RESEARCH TOOLS..
IT IS NOT PRETTY!!
YOU HAVE NO, AND I REPEAT, NO IDEA what is done to these animals!!!
 
And, UNTIL you do see it with your OWN EYES, please, do not dismiss 
this as trivial
 
And, as far as P&G, IAMS, inviting the HSUS or 
whateversure
I also live near the main P&G R&D Headquarters..
I guess you don't want to know where they get their "research tools" from, 
do you???
Oh, and, the rendering plant in Baltimore  
Well, guess WHO is their biggest 
CUSTOMER  And, this rendering plant does in fact, pick up the deceased 
pets that are left at local veterinary hospitals.
FOOD FOR THOUGHT
No, FOOD for your own animals if you insist on 
feeding them this "recycled pet" pet food.  Feeding 
this cr*p is just telling the good 'ole boys at P&G that, "Hey, do whatever, 
I'LL BUY YOUR RECYCLED CARCASSES AND FEED TO MY PETS, NO PROBLEM. ( I don't care 
about the euthanol, the grinded up collars & tags, the disease!! Hey, if 
YOU (P&G) say it's GOOD FOOD, who am I to 
argue"
 
It is a fact that until people are educated about the NEED for Spay/Neuter 
and responsible pet guardianship, there WILL always be millions of animals 
killed daily across the nation.
We can not save them all...
We can ALL do what we can, and, EDUCATE, EDUCATE, 
EDUCATE...
 
But, humane euthanasia is a far better fate for 
these throw-aways.  You can guarantee that!!
How can you possibly think lab life can be compared to shelter 
life???
Tad, you need to take a look at the way things REALLY 
work...
If, you consider to think otherwise, well, you are living in a fairy 
tale.
 
You can't believe everything you hear or read.
UNTIL YOU HAVE SEEN IT FOR YOURSELF, PLEASE, REFRAIN FROM 
MAKING SUCH NONSENSICAL STATEMENTS!!
 
Yes, you HAVE struck a nerve here.  BUT, I HAVE been there, I HAVE 
seen it, and I have nightmares all the time because of all this!!
Why do you think I have devoted my life to this work??
Because I like to cry?
Because I don't need to sleep at night??
Because I like to see these things???
 
No.  It's because I 
CARE.
Doing this work was MY choice.  I TRY to educate, to make a 
difference.  And, will continue to do so til I take my last breath.  
It's a promise I made to myself because of the society/world we live in.
 
So, sorry, but, HUMANE EUTHANASIA sure beats the 
hell out of tortures in labs, in the name of "research".
 
Please don't take this personally.  But, I am passionate about this, 
and "Until you've walked in my shoes, don't assume you know what 
it's like."
 
Patti

Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[TenHouseCats]

here's the link to the local group working on this issue: http://members.aol.com/Justice4them/
 
they're the one with the history and the most updated info; the shelter staff can't do anything
 
MC
-- MaryChristineAIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCatsMSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 289856892 

Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[Linda Johnson]

When I went to Michigan State I saw some beagles that
were kept for research and they were NOT treated well.
 While they may not have technically been "abused"
they were subjected to cruel
experimentation/operations/blood work, et cetera and
were kept in small cages in windowless rooms.  Even
the best research facilities are not good alternatives
to euthanasia.  I would never want to be subjected to
that type of life and would, as a human, rather be
dead than live in captivity and treated so poorly.

Linda

--- Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> PLEASE...Some specific eye witness examples that
> other can visit and 
> bring attention to the local
> sheriff will do .
> What are they testing for 
> What treatment are they doing that is so bad
> compared to being kept in a small cage with no
> outside windows for years...(many no kill shelters)
>  
> Tad
> 
>

__
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Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[Tad Burnett]

The fact of the matter is they will get animals some where any way...
Now, most of them come from back yard breeders that breed animals
for just that market
Perhaps if more shelters sold to research the animals that they are
going to PTS
that would put some of the back yard breeders out of business

If the business arraignment is to sell animals that have a chance for
adoption
than I too have a problem with that but if these are animals among the
6 million
per year that are out of time and going to be PTS and the money is
spent at the
shelter so that they can do more good work than what is wrong with that
???

And again, most research is done so the manufactures can back up their
claim the their product is the best...NOT that their product causes the
most
suffering... They want the results to be a happy ending...
Not all tests are successful but for the most part they aren't going to
waste
their time and money on a test that they aren't pretty sure will work...
 
Even if its testing for a cure for a disease and they infect they animal
and then try to cure it or put to sleep and examine you are still
talking
about animals that were going to be PTS earlier anyway...

Tad

TenHouseCats wrote:

  i do NOT admit to be totally up-to-date on this
   
  i have to agree that not ALL research is inherently bad.
however, in this case, there's a BUSINESS arrangement between the
shelter and one Class B Dealer--as far as i know, the shelter couldn't
care less where the animals end up, they just sell them to the
dealer there have all been any number of hearings, public
demonstrations, etc through the years--the MI county that i am in was
embarrassed out of selling their animals to a similar dealer a few
years back. 
   
  i can most probably get updates on where the fight stands now,
and who is doing what--i'm sorry to say that i have NOT kept on top of
it because i can only fight so many fights at one time. but i do have
local contacts with far more information and expertise than i do
  
  
 
  On 3/27/06, Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
  PLEASE...Some
specific eye witness examples that other can visit and
bring attention to the local
sheriff will do .

What are they testing for 
What treatment are they doing that is so bad
compared to being kept in a small cage with no
outside windows for years...(many no kill shelters)

Tad

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

> I hear what you're saying, but it's just not true.  There's more to
> research on animals than drawing blood occasionally.  Good grief.
>
> Gloria
>
>

> At 10:36 AM 3/27/2006, you wrote:
>
>> Why do people think research is synominus with torture...
>> >From Hollywood science fiction movies...
>> With the scrutiny that research places are under today

>> I guarantee you that most animals in a research place are much
>> happier than those in no kill shelters... Think for a minute
about
>> Angel Wings Sanctuary...
>>
>>   Every body yells about IAMS food because they do research...

>> But they have invited HSUS to do un announced visits
>> I bet many private pet owners wouldn't pass as well as they
do...
>>
>> What is the alternative for these animals... PTS ???

>>
>> Technically they are a non profit so they don't sell but except
>> and adoption fee.. Isn't that the same difference ???
>>
>> And what is the research consist of ???
>> Drawing blood or tissue samples ???  Like we never do that
>> with our FeLV+'s...
>>
>> I spent a good part of my life working in a research lab..
>> Not animals but computers... But to do good research

>> one needs to put the subject in a controlled environment...
>> Usually you want the test to work under normal good
conditions..
>> Its the same with animals.. They are given a happy, no stress

>> environment so that factor won't cause problems and for
>> instance give them different food...
>> If I were given the choice of having to eat spinach or PTS
>> I would take the spinach...

>> If you can find some animals that are being tortured than
>> raise hell about that...
>>
>> I say if they are adopting to a research with the same
>> questions or home visit that they do with a private home

>> than what is wrong with that... Maybe it would make more
>> sense that they do that...
>>
>> Shelters have their limits... That's why millions of animals
>> have to be PTS every year just because there is no body to

>> give them a home... Keep the pressure on to enforce all people
>> that care for animals... Like the dogs chained to the back
porch
>> 24/7 who gets some attention on nice days only
>>

>> Tad
>>
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>> After getting frantic "pleas" for animals In Ingham
County, Mi.

>>> several years ago, I learned "all about" this policy that
many
>>> shelters in Michigan have regarding selling animals to
research
>>> facilities
>>> IT MAKES ME SICK!!!

>>> They claim they do 

Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[TenHouseCats]

i do NOT admit to be totally up-to-date on this
 
i have to agree that not ALL research is inherently bad. however, in this case, there's a BUSINESS arrangement between the shelter and one Class B Dealer--as far as i know, the shelter couldn't care less where the animals end up, they just sell them to the dealer there have all been any number of hearings, public demonstrations, etc through the years--the MI county that i am in was embarrassed out of selling their animals to a similar dealer a few years back. 

 
i can most probably get updates on where the fight stands now, and who is doing what--i'm sorry to say that i have NOT kept on top of it because i can only fight so many fights at one time. but i do have local contacts with far more information and expertise than i do
 
On 3/27/06, Tad Burnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
PLEASE...Some specific eye witness examples that other can visit andbring attention to the localsheriff will do .
What are they testing for What treatment are they doing that is so badcompared to being kept in a small cage with nooutside windows for years...(many no kill shelters)Tad
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:> I hear what you're saying, but it's just not true.  There's more to> research on animals than drawing blood occasionally.  Good grief.>> Gloria>>
> At 10:36 AM 3/27/2006, you wrote:>>> Why do people think research is synominus with torture...>> >From Hollywood science fiction movies...>> With the scrutiny that research places are under today
>> I guarantee you that most animals in a research place are much>> happier than those in no kill shelters... Think for a minute about>> Angel Wings Sanctuary...   Every body yells about IAMS food because they do research...
>> But they have invited HSUS to do un announced visits>> I bet many private pet owners wouldn't pass as well as they do... What is the alternative for these animals... PTS ???
 Technically they are a non profit so they don't sell but except>> and adoption fee.. Isn't that the same difference ??? And what is the research consist of ???
>> Drawing blood or tissue samples ???  Like we never do that>> with our FeLV+'s... I spent a good part of my life working in a research lab..>> Not animals but computers... But to do good research
>> one needs to put the subject in a controlled environment...>> Usually you want the test to work under normal good conditions..>> Its the same with animals.. They are given a happy, no stress
>> environment so that factor won't cause problems and for>> instance give them different food...>> If I were given the choice of having to eat spinach or PTS>> I would take the spinach...
>> If you can find some animals that are being tortured than>> raise hell about that... I say if they are adopting to a research with the same>> questions or home visit that they do with a private home
>> than what is wrong with that... Maybe it would make more>> sense that they do that... Shelters have their limits... That's why millions of animals>> have to be PTS every year just because there is no body to
>> give them a home... Keep the pressure on to enforce all people>> that care for animals... Like the dogs chained to the back porch>> 24/7 who gets some attention on nice days only>>
>> Tad>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:> After getting frantic "pleas" for animals In Ingham County, Mi.
>>> several years ago, I learned "all about" this policy that many>>> shelters in Michigan have regarding selling animals to research>>> facilities>>> IT MAKES ME SICK!!!
>>> They claim they do it for revenue, to keep operating.  A "necessary>>> evil".  That the cost of euthanasia/cremation would be too much of a>>> financial burden.>>>
>>> My opinion of that "lame" statement - Bull Sh*t>> Seriously, it's nothing more tha greed and ignorance and arrogance,>>> that's all.>>>
>>> I've worked with  many very poor rural shelters, many in the south.>>> And, when I say "poor", these areas are so poor, it makes me feel>>> like I am living in Beverly Hills.
>>> However, these rural, understaffed, overcrowded shelters DO NOT>>> resort to selling animals for $>> AND - Guess why>>> Because it is NOT allowed in these states, along with many others.
>>> Yep, it's been considered "illegal" to sell pound seizures.>>> Google, and you will see which states STILL allow this atrocity!!>>> Mind-boggling!>>> We don't need to use animals for research Egads, where is all
>>> this "new" testing technology???>> My point, it is still LEGAL in Michigan(and other states).>>> Something needs to be done on the legislative level to STOP THIS
>>> ATROCITY>> So, Michigan residents, FIGHT!!!  Speak your voice!  Write letters!>>> Join AAVS or NAVS!!  Start a "grass roots" campaign..  NEVER SAY
>>> NEVER!!!>>> This MUST stop!>> What a sad reflection of the society we live in.>>> Makes me so very ashamed..>> Patti
>>> []>

Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[Tad Burnett]

PLEASE...Some specific eye witness examples that other can visit and 
bring attention to the local

sheriff will do .
What are they testing for 
What treatment are they doing that is so bad
compared to being kept in a small cage with no
outside windows for years...(many no kill shelters)

Tad

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I hear what you're saying, but it's just not true.  There's more to 
research on animals than drawing blood occasionally.  Good grief.


Gloria


At 10:36 AM 3/27/2006, you wrote:


Why do people think research is synominus with torture...
>From Hollywood science fiction movies...
With the scrutiny that research places are under today
I guarantee you that most animals in a research place are much
happier than those in no kill shelters... Think for a minute about
Angel Wings Sanctuary...

  Every body yells about IAMS food because they do research...
But they have invited HSUS to do un announced visits
I bet many private pet owners wouldn't pass as well as they do...

What is the alternative for these animals... PTS ???

Technically they are a non profit so they don't sell but except
and adoption fee.. Isn't that the same difference ???

And what is the research consist of ???
Drawing blood or tissue samples ???  Like we never do that
with our FeLV+'s...

I spent a good part of my life working in a research lab..
Not animals but computers... But to do good research
one needs to put the subject in a controlled environment...
Usually you want the test to work under normal good conditions..
Its the same with animals.. They are given a happy, no stress
environment so that factor won't cause problems and for
instance give them different food...
If I were given the choice of having to eat spinach or PTS
I would take the spinach...
If you can find some animals that are being tortured than
raise hell about that...

I say if they are adopting to a research with the same
questions or home visit that they do with a private home
than what is wrong with that... Maybe it would make more
sense that they do that...

Shelters have their limits... That's why millions of animals
have to be PTS every year just because there is no body to
give them a home... Keep the pressure on to enforce all people
that care for animals... Like the dogs chained to the back porch
24/7 who gets some attention on nice days only

Tad


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

After getting frantic "pleas" for animals In Ingham County, Mi. 
several years ago, I learned "all about" this policy that many 
shelters in Michigan have regarding selling animals to research 
facilities

IT MAKES ME SICK!!!
They claim they do it for revenue, to keep operating.  A "necessary 
evil".  That the cost of euthanasia/cremation would be too much of a 
financial burden.


My opinion of that "lame" statement - Bull Sh*t

Seriously, it's nothing more tha greed and ignorance and arrogance, 
that's all.


I've worked with  many very poor rural shelters, many in the south.
And, when I say "poor", these areas are so poor, it makes me feel 
like I am living in Beverly Hills.
However, these rural, understaffed, overcrowded shelters DO NOT 
resort to selling animals for $


AND - Guess why
Because it is NOT allowed in these states, along with many others.
Yep, it's been considered "illegal" to sell pound seizures.
Google, and you will see which states STILL allow this atrocity!!
Mind-boggling!
We don't need to use animals for research Egads, where is all 
this "new" testing technology???


My point, it is still LEGAL in Michigan(and other states).
Something needs to be done on the legislative level to STOP THIS 
ATROCITY


So, Michigan residents, FIGHT!!!  Speak your voice!  Write letters! 
Join AAVS or NAVS!!  Start a "grass roots" campaign..  NEVER SAY 
NEVER!!!

This MUST stop!

What a sad reflection of the society we live in.
Makes me so very ashamed..

Patti
[]

Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[gblane]

I hear what you're saying, but it's just not true.  There's more to 
research on animals than drawing blood occasionally.  Good grief.


Gloria


At 10:36 AM 3/27/2006, you wrote:

Why do people think research is synominus with torture...
>From Hollywood science fiction movies...
With the scrutiny that research places are under today
I guarantee you that most animals in a research place are much
happier than those in no kill shelters... Think for a minute about
Angel Wings Sanctuary...

  Every body yells about IAMS food because they do research...
But they have invited HSUS to do un announced visits
I bet many private pet owners wouldn't pass as well as they do...

What is the alternative for these animals... PTS ???

Technically they are a non profit so they don't sell but except
and adoption fee.. Isn't that the same difference ???

And what is the research consist of ???
Drawing blood or tissue samples ???  Like we never do that
with our FeLV+'s...

I spent a good part of my life working in a research lab..
Not animals but computers... But to do good research
one needs to put the subject in a controlled environment...
Usually you want the test to work under normal good conditions..
Its the same with animals.. They are given a happy, no stress
environment so that factor won't cause problems and for
instance give them different food...
If I were given the choice of having to eat spinach or PTS
I would take the spinach...
If you can find some animals that are being tortured than
raise hell about that...

I say if they are adopting to a research with the same
questions or home visit that they do with a private home
than what is wrong with that... Maybe it would make more
sense that they do that...

Shelters have their limits... That's why millions of animals
have to be PTS every year just because there is no body to
give them a home... Keep the pressure on to enforce all people
that care for animals... Like the dogs chained to the back porch
24/7 who gets some attention on nice days only

Tad


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
After getting frantic "pleas" for animals In Ingham County, Mi. 
several years ago, I learned "all about" this policy that many 
shelters in Michigan have regarding selling animals to research 
facilities

IT MAKES ME SICK!!!
They claim they do it for revenue, to keep operating.  A "necessary 
evil".  That the cost of euthanasia/cremation would be too much of 
a financial burden.


My opinion of that "lame" statement - Bull Sh*t

Seriously, it's nothing more tha greed and ignorance and arrogance, 
that's all.


I've worked with  many very poor rural shelters, many in the south.
And, when I say "poor", these areas are so poor, it makes me feel 
like I am living in Beverly Hills.
However, these rural, understaffed, overcrowded shelters DO NOT 
resort to selling animals for $


AND - Guess why
Because it is NOT allowed in these states, along with many others.
Yep, it's been considered "illegal" to sell pound seizures.
Google, and you will see which states STILL allow this atrocity!!
Mind-boggling!
We don't need to use animals for research Egads, where is all 
this "new" testing technology???


My point, it is still LEGAL in Michigan(and other states).
Something needs to be done on the legislative level to STOP THIS ATROCITY

So, Michigan residents, FIGHT!!!  Speak your voice!  Write letters! 
Join AAVS or NAVS!!  Start a "grass roots" campaign..  NEVER SAY NEVER!!!

This MUST stop!

What a sad reflection of the society we live in.
Makes me so very ashamed..

Patti
[]

Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[Tad Burnett]

Why do people think research is synominus with torture...
>From Hollywood science fiction movies...
With the scrutiny that research places are under today
I guarantee you that most animals in a research place are much
happier than those in no kill shelters... Think for a minute about
Angel Wings Sanctuary...

  Every body yells about IAMS food because they do research...
But they have invited HSUS to do un announced visits
I bet many private pet owners wouldn't pass as well as they do...

What is the alternative for these animals... PTS ???

Technically they are a non profit so they don't sell but except
and adoption fee.. Isn't that the same difference ???
 
And what is the research consist of ???
Drawing blood or tissue samples ???  Like we never do that
with our FeLV+'s...
 
I spent a good part of my life working in a research lab..
Not animals but computers... But to do good research
one needs to put the subject in a controlled environment...
Usually you want the test to work under normal good conditions..
Its the same with animals.. They are given a happy, no stress
environment so that factor won't cause problems and for
instance give them different food...
If I were given the choice of having to eat spinach or PTS
I would take the spinach... 
If you can find some animals that are being tortured than
raise hell about that... 
 
I say if they are adopting to a research with the same
questions or home visit that they do with a private home
than what is wrong with that... Maybe it would make more
sense that they do that...
 
Shelters have their limits... That's why millions of animals
have to be PTS every year just because there is no body to
give them a home... Keep the pressure on to enforce all people
that care for animals... Like the dogs chained to the back porch
24/7 who gets some attention on nice days only
 
Tad


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  After getting frantic "pleas" for animals In Ingham County, Mi.
several years ago, I learned "all about" this policy that many shelters
in Michigan have regarding selling animals to research
facilities
  IT MAKES ME SICK!!!
  They claim they do it for revenue, to keep operating.  A
"necessary evil".  That the cost of euthanasia/cremation would be too
much of a financial burden.
   
  My opinion of that "lame" statement - Bull Sh*t
   
  Seriously, it's nothing more tha greed and ignorance and
arrogance, that's all.
   
  I've worked with  many very poor rural shelters, many in the
south.
  And, when I say "poor", these areas are so poor, it makes me
feel like I am living in Beverly Hills.
  However, these rural, understaffed, overcrowded shelters DO NOT
resort to selling animals for $
   
  AND - Guess why
  Because it is NOT allowed in these states, along with many
others.
  Yep, it's been considered "illegal" to sell pound seizures.
  Google, and you will see which states STILL allow this atrocity!!
  Mind-boggling!
  We don't need to use animals for research Egads, where is
all this "new" testing technology???
   
  My point, it is still LEGAL in Michigan(and other states).
  Something needs to be done on the legislative level to STOP THIS
ATROCITY
   
  So, Michigan residents, FIGHT!!!  Speak your voice!  Write
letters! Join AAVS or NAVS!!  Start a "grass roots" campaign.. 
NEVER SAY NEVER!!!
  This MUST stop!
   
  What a sad reflection of the society we live in.
  Makes me so very ashamed..
   
  Patti
  
   
   
  

Re: Subject: Add Tad to the CLS

[gblane]

Thanks, Carla - will do.

At 09:25 AM 3/27/2006, you wrote:

Gloria

Please let your friend know that I am very sorry for your loss
of her sweet guy Tad.

Carla

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:24:38 -0600
From: Gloria Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Add Tad to the CLS
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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format=flowed

Subject: Add Tad to the CLS

[Carla Shoppe]

Gloria

Please let your friend know that I am very sorry for your loss 
of her sweet guy Tad. 

Carla

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:24:38 -0600
From: Gloria Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Add Tad to the CLS
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; 
format=flowed

Re: Jackson Co Shelter, MI selling pets for research?

[PEC2851]

After getting frantic "pleas" for animals In Ingham County, Mi. several 
years ago, I learned "all about" this policy that many shelters in Michigan have 
regarding selling animals to research facilities
IT MAKES ME SICK!!!
They claim they do it for revenue, to keep operating.  A "necessary 
evil".  That the cost of euthanasia/cremation would be too much of a 
financial burden.
 
My opinion of that "lame" statement - Bull Sh*t
 
Seriously, it's nothing more tha greed and ignorance and arrogance, that's 
all.
 
I've worked with  many very poor rural shelters, many in the 
south.
And, when I say "poor", these areas are so poor, it makes me feel like I am 
living in Beverly Hills.
However, these rural, understaffed, overcrowded shelters DO NOT resort to 
selling animals for $
 
AND - Guess why
Because it is NOT allowed in these states, along with many others.
Yep, it's been considered "illegal" to sell pound seizures.
Google, and you will see which states STILL allow this atrocity!!
Mind-boggling!
We don't need to use animals for research Egads, where is all this 
"new" testing technology???
 
My point, it is still LEGAL in Michigan(and other states).
Something needs to be done on the legislative level to STOP THIS 
ATROCITY
 
So, Michigan residents, FIGHT!!!  Speak your voice!  Write 
letters! Join AAVS or NAVS!!  Start a "grass roots" campaign..  
NEVER SAY NEVER!!!
This MUST stop!
 
What a sad reflection of the society we live in.
Makes me so very ashamed..
 
Patti

 
 

Re: Maizee Grace

[jenmeyer]

Oh, Sherry...I'm right there with ya... :(  I've had several "missing my
baby boy" cries since Ewok passed.  Just when I think I'm doing okay,
I'll suddenly miss him like he had just died 2 hours ago.  I've never
mourned like this before...like someone else said, "Time heals all
wounds, but I'm not so sure..."

Just before I left the room at the vet's office after we let him go (he
was to be cremated), I tied a red ponytail holder around his paw...he
loved playing with those things and would beat me into the bedroom and
wait on the bed for me to toss ponytail holders in the air so that he
could catch them.  Anyway, just the other night, I was reading on the
couch when our little Lola came running out of the garage with something
in her mouth...she jumped up on the couch with me and dropped her "gift"
near my feet...a red ponytail holder.  I couldn't help but smile and ask
her if it was from "Burboy" (Ewok) as I hadn't seen any red ponytail
holders around the house for some time.  The red ponytail holder is now
the only one I wear...but I'd give anything to toss it to Ewok one more
time...

Please take care of yourself and know that I'm crying with you!

Jen


"But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be
unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world; You
become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed..." --Antoine de
Saint-Exupéry

"If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know
each other.  If you do not talk to them you will not know them, and what
you do not know you will fear. What one fears one destroys." --Chief Dan
George

- Original Message -
From: Sherry DeHaan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sunday, March 26, 2006 7:05 pm
Subject: Maizee Grace
To: Felvtalk 

> Hi all,I just needed to tell someone that I am having a really bad 
> missing my baby girl cry.This happens every so often but not as 
> much as it used to.I knew EVERYONE here would understand. She has 
> been gone almost 5 months and it still hurts so much. I have had 
> many cats in my life come and go,but I don't ever remember hurting 
> this much for this long.If it were not for you wonderful caring 
> people, I don't know how I would have made it through the toughest 
> times.sorry to unload this sadness onto you,I just knew you would 
> understand. Thanks
>  Sherry
> 
>   
> -
> New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC 
> and save big.

Malachi

[Sherry DeHaan]

Could you add Malachi to the CLS list? He passed away Friday,he was a hurricane Katrina kitty that we only had 2 weeks at the sanctuary.He was the sweetest blach kitty.He had felv.He survived that aweful hurricane then being shuffled around,finally made it to us and felv just took him away.He is with all the other sweet babies that have passed now.  Sherry
		New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates.

Re: Maizee Grace

[Sherry DeHaan]

Thank you so much Patti.The volunteering is great,I just love the babies,but it is so hard when we lose them.I keep telling myself "Are you going to be able to handle this?" I know I have to because those fur kids know me now and I just love them so much.I am doing this in Maizees honor.I just hope I am strong enough.  Sherry[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Sherry~  Oh, sweetie, I know what you are going through.  Although so very painful, it IS normal     I've been doing rescue for sooo long.  So many furbabies have shared my life.  I have lost more than most...     However, Mr. Chow was my first cat I lost, ironically to Felv, and at that time, over
 20 years ago, little was known about Felv. In fact, he wasn't diagnosed til he developed a lymphoma  I STILL have times when I will be thinking of him, or looking at his picture, and I break down, just as I did when I realized he was not going to be able to be saved  They say time heals all wounds, but, truthfully, I wonder     It is great you are channeling your energy into volunteer work.  And, I commend you for being able to work with all the "special" kitties.  That is hard, knowing their time is limited, but you are giving them so much!!     I don't know what I can say that will lessen the pain.  Sherry, I just want you to know, we all go through this at times  I think once a gentle soul has touched our hearts so deeply, it's only natural that their absence is so much more painful     Take joy in your memories of Maizee Grace. 
 Most importantly, BELIEVE IN THE RAINBOW BRIDGE  I know, when my time comes, I  BETTER be headed straight to The Bridge, cause I am sure my "Welcome" will be from my furangels  HEAVEN for me will be my joyful reuniting with my loved furbabies!!!  That is what I will be looking forward to...     Hugs,  Patti  
		Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make  PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.